From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 11:27:44 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:24:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <4788@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 7, 94 06:16:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 952 Lines: 55 > > Whay about the interleave and skew? Is that a way to get it > faster? To tell the truth, as far as my tests indicate, the problem's with the speed of the SAM... To read a sector at the moment, you have to do the equivalent of: ld a,1 ld c,sector_count out (c),a inc c ld a,sector out (c),a inc c ld a,tracklow out (c),a inc c ld a,trackhigh out (c),a inc c ld a,head_drive out (c),a inc c ld a,&20 ;(read sector) out (c),a main.loop: in a,(status) bit 3,a jr nz,read.byte rla ret nc jr main.loop read.byte: in a,(data) ld (hl),a inc hl in a,(data) ld (hl),a inc hl jr main.loop And that's effectively it... the place where it slows down is that main loop... and I've not even put the error checking in it (which is mostly redundant -- you can do it at the end of that loop anyway) But there you go... Martin has nearly finished designing the DMA system -- it has to be a custom job, but there you go... Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 11:37:07 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411091132.AA04869@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 12:32:48 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 9, 94 11:19:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 632 Lines: 21 > > > Call it SAM 2 and make the SAM a peripheral of the drive! :-) > > He who speaks in jest *could* be speaking truth without realising it... > > Now, I *am* getting cryptic ;) Ah! A plug-in-sam is on its way? What about a plug-in-sam-into-pc-box? Should solve all the graphic-, sound-, etc-hassle. Only had to consentrate on the SPEED of the thingy! > > Si > -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 11:42:16 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411091138.AA04922@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 12:38:09 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 9, 94 11:24:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1541 Lines: 72 > > > > > Whay about the interleave and skew? Is that a way to get it > > faster? > > To tell the truth, as far as my tests indicate, the problem's with the speed > of the SAM... > > To read a sector at the moment, you have to do the equivalent of: > > ld a,1 > ld c,sector_count > out (c),a > inc c > ld a,sector > out (c),a > inc c > ld a,tracklow > out (c),a > inc c > ld a,trackhigh > out (c),a > inc c > ld a,head_drive > out (c),a > inc c > ld a,&20 ;(read sector) > out (c),a > > main.loop: > in a,(status) > bit 3,a > jr nz,read.byte > rla > ret nc > jr main.loop > > read.byte: > in a,(data) > ld (hl),a > inc hl > in a,(data) > ld (hl),a > inc hl > jr main.loop > This is what's called polling :) It's exactly the same piece of code that I use to read a sector on an ordinary floppy.... And I _still_ can't get it to read the disc the way I'd like it to....... :-| > > And that's effectively it... the place where it slows down is that main > loop... and I've not even put the error checking in it (which is mostly > redundant -- you can do it at the end of that loop anyway) > > But there you go... Martin has nearly finished designing the DMA system -- > it has to be a custom job, but there you go... Goody! > > Si > > -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From imc Wed Nov 9 11:42:58 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 11:42:58 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 9, 94 11:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1331 Lines: 50 On Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:24:14 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > To tell the truth, as far as my tests indicate, the problem's with the speed > of the SAM... Then obviously a DMA is needed. > To read a sector at the moment, you have to do the equivalent of: [setup deleted] > main.loop: > in a,(status) > bit 3,a > jr nz,read.byte > rla > ret nc > jr main.loop Do you _really_ have to do this much checking for each pair of bytes? If that's the case then there's something wrong with the hardware. You should just be able to tell the disk to read a sector and then do 512 INs in a row to read it. Even the ZX Microdrive did that (well, as far as I remember anyway). If an error occurs in the middle, the hardware should compensate by giving the program dummy values until al lthe bytes have been read, at which point it can check for an error indication. By the way, you can save T-states in that loop with: main.loop: in a,(status) rla ret nc and 16 jr z,main.loop (this loses 3 T-states if data is immediately available but saves 8 on each time round the loop). > read.byte: > in a,(data) > ld (hl),a > inc hl > in a,(data) > ld (hl),a > inc hl > jr main.loop What's wrong with "ini"? It takes 16 cycles to the 24 of "in a,(n);ld(hl),a; inc hl". Also, "jp" is two cycles faster than "jr". imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 11:43:12 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:20:47 +0000 In-Reply-To: Ian.Collier -- "Re: Hard-Disk on sam" (Nov 9, 11:56am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 931 Lines: 21 On Nov 9, 11:56am in "Re: Hard-Disk on sam", Ian warbled: ] On Wed, 9 Nov 1994 09:29:14 +0000, Mars Bar said: ] > But Bob and his "I won't work until ] > I'm sure I'll break even" brigade should be making PC peripherals, and the ] > only reason they're not is because there's a big enough market for them ] > and their crap not to survive. ] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ] Is this what you meant to say? If so, I don't quite understand it... Where's your English then? :) What I mean is, the market is so big that there are other major players who produce far better stuff than bob and his croneys could ever hope to at a much smaller profit margin. BassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumping PumpingJumpingBassKeepsPumpingBassKeepsPumpingGimmeASmileForTheFutureAndIHeard ItOnTheRadioAndISawItOnTheTelevisionBackIn1988... gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk From imc Wed Nov 9 11:46:47 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 11:46:47 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Mars Bar" at Nov 9, 94 11:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 798 Lines: 19 On Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:20:47 +0000, Mars Bar said: > On Nov 9, 11:56am in "Re: Hard-Disk on sam", Ian warbled: > ] On Wed, 9 Nov 1994 09:29:14 +0000, Mars Bar said: > ] > But Bob and his "I won't work until > ] > I'm sure I'll break even" brigade should be making PC peripherals, and the > ] > only reason they're not is because there's a big enough market for them > ] > and their crap not to survive. > ] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ] Is this what you meant to say? If so, I don't quite understand it... > Where's your English then? > :) Where's yours? If there's a big market for them and their crap then surely they will make lots of money. What you mean is there's enough competition in the PC world for them to be driven out of business. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 11:48:41 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:43:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199411091132.AA04869@ulke.hiMolde.no> from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 9, 94 12:32:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 933 Lines: 19 > > Ah! A plug-in-sam is on its way? What about a plug-in-sam-into-pc-box? > Should solve all the graphic-, sound-, etc-hassle. Only had to > consentrate on the SPEED of the thingy! Well.... the PC box idea -- yes. PC Keyboard? Yes... 1.44 Mb Drives? Just got to get a suitable controller -- doesn't even have to be compatible with the existing ones (veee have vays of making it talk!)... Accelerator? Currently in schematic form... graphics board? Got one upstairs on the bench... Sound board? Colin Piggot's working on one, and we've got an EDDAC in PCB form as well... Hard Drive? It's two OR gates at the moment, but that wouldn't work with every drive... Soo.... Memory? We've got the RYAN 1Gb interface nearly done... Text Mode? We're looking into it as a new screen mode for the SAM -- namely to get my comms software up to snuff.. Oh, and we're looking at a few other fun things too :) Just gotta wait and see now ;) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 11:51:25 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:46:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199411091138.AA04922@ulke.hiMolde.no> from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 9, 94 12:38:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 566 Lines: 19 > code that I use to read a sector on an ordinary floppy.... > And I _still_ can't get it to read the disc the way I'd like > it to....... :-| Why? What way *would* you like it to? Has to be said though -- you couldn't read a sector that way from BASIC like you can with the HD... Oh, and Bob Brenchley claimed that the reason there has to be a ROM upgrade for the HD to work was because of a lot of "time dependent code" that has to be in there... That is complete and utter twaddle; I've read and written sectors in BASIC -- what more can you ask for? :) Si From imc Wed Nov 9 12:03:32 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 12:03:32 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 9, 94 11:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 248 Lines: 8 On Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:46:00 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > That is complete and utter twaddle; I've read and written sectors in BASIC > -- what more can you ask for? So have I. "READ AT blah". Or perhaps that isn't what you meant... :-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 12:49:29 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411091245.AA06623@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 13:45:52 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 9, 94 11:43:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1634 Lines: 37 > > > > > Ah! A plug-in-sam is on its way? What about a plug-in-sam-into-pc-box? > > Should solve all the graphic-, sound-, etc-hassle. Only had to > > consentrate on the SPEED of the thingy! > > Well.... the PC box idea -- yes. PC Keyboard? Yes... 1.44 Mb Drives? Just > got to get a suitable controller -- doesn't even have to be compatible with > the existing ones (veee have vays of making it talk!)... Accelerator? > Currently in schematic form... graphics board? Got one upstairs on the > bench... Sound board? Colin Piggot's working on one, and we've got an EDDAC > in PCB form as well... Hard Drive? It's two OR gates at the moment, but that > wouldn't work with every drive... Soo.... Memory? We've got the RYAN 1Gb > interface nearly done... Text Mode? We're looking into it as a new screen > mode for the SAM -- namely to get my comms software up to snuff.. Oh, and > we're looking at a few other fun things too :) My idea was to use the existing pieces of PC-hardware, eg. the GUS, Dinamite, etc, as ad-ons to a SAM 'Pro' (thus, we all agree that the PC is shitty (?) :), it has some advantages in that there is no other platform that has such a high degree of support), keeping the basic design of the SAM, but using the much more advanced, mass-produced ad-ons for the PC. That is, a SAM with PCI-bus ;) > > Just gotta wait and see now ;) > > Si > -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 13:00:25 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411091254.AA06897@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 13:54:34 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 9, 94 11:43:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 453 Lines: 15 > wouldn't work with every drive... Soo.... Memory? We've got the RYAN 1Gb > interface nearly done... Text Mode? We're looking into it as a new screen Is that 1 Giga-bit or -byte? > Si > -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 18:56:11 1994 Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 14:23:59 GMT From: "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." Message-Id: <4878@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ftp deaded! X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 70 Lines: 7 It seems to have got here. Thanks... Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 18:56:12 1994 Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 14:33:34 GMT From: "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." Message-Id: <4880@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 82 Lines: 6 Bob means that the ROM is not contended I guess. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 18:57:08 1994 Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 17:13:56 GMT From: "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." Message-Id: <4881@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: pak??? X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 265 Lines: 9 OK I do not download SAM files ysyally here, but I had assumed they were saved as TEledisk images, as this is what I do. However, the terminal is a .PAK, but not the PC version. So what do I need to get it into a SAM readable form? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 19:00:52 1994 Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 14:31:24 GMT From: "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." Message-Id: <4879@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 209 Lines: 10 Reminds me of the Timex that had another Z80 and more RAM in the drive interface. It ran CP.M there, and used the computer as a terminal only! Bob was involved with that too! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 19:01:01 1994 Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 14:15:54 GMT From: "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." Message-Id: <4876@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 604 Lines: 16 Don't you paint ME as a fat cat getting rich! I have spent HOURSE on phones getting files, sorting out users of Pro-Dos, BUT I DO have to live, I CANNOT command a salery. I am slowly going completely blind, already registered as such. I must be MAD to support the SAM, however, its partly my baby, I was in at the start, several thousands of pounds of MY money went into what I considered to be a gamble. So WATCH who you sling holier than thou mud at, Mars me old cocker! :-) Oh, and perhaps you could knock up some Spectrum membranes for nothing in your spare time... Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 19:14:20 1994 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 20:10:30 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9411092010.aa19391@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1262 Lines: 36 Hello Simon, > From: Simon Cooke > Subject: Re: Sam > Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:17:53 +0000 (GMT) > > Welll.... we've nearly got MasterDOS patched... but it is a bit wasteful > using an 80Mb hard drive as a 1Mb second drive :) Yeah, even more wasteful than the way Windows programs fill up PC harddisks! ;-) >> By the way, can you please tell me when the nest Gloucester show is, >> I don't think that I will be able to go there but noone knows >> ... > > Not a clue... probably April... I thought there was something in November where you would also present the Multi-ROM or did I get something wrong? > But, of course, there *may* be the Entropy show in Macclesfield in February Hopefully at the end of February as I will be in Leeds at Leeds university from mid-February 'till July as Erasmus-student! By the way, where are you studing, and which course? Bye, Arne +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it (up to 14. Jan. 1995) | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 9pm CET | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 19:14:59 1994 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 20:11:09 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9411092011.aa19529@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 820 Lines: 22 Hello Frode, > From: Frode Tennebo > Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam > Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 13:54:34 +0100 (MET) > >> wouldn't work with every drive... Soo.... Memory? We've got the RYAN 1Gb >> interface nearly done... Text Mode? We're looking into it as a new screen > > Is that 1 Giga-bit or -byte? I don't think that 1 Giga-bit or -byte makes much difference, it's always more than you will ever be able to buy or to use! ;-)) +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it (up to 14. Jan. 1995) | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 9pm CET | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 19:15:10 1994 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 20:11:45 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9411092011.aa19593@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1437 Lines: 34 Hello Frode, > From: Frode Tennebo > Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam > Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 13:45:52 +0100 (MET) > My idea was to use the existing pieces of PC-hardware, eg. the > GUS, Dinamite, etc, as ad-ons to a SAM 'Pro' (thus, we all agree ^^^^ The GUS??!! I have the GUSMAX on my PC, it's one of the main reasons for which I bought the PC ... :-)) I really would like to have a similar card on the SAM ... I would even be possible at least for the synth part of the GUS as it doesn't require much CPU power... > that the PC is shitty (?) :), it has some advantages in that > there is no other platform that has such a high degree of > support), keeping the basic design of the SAM, but using the > much more advanced, mass-produced ad-ons for the PC. That is, > a SAM with PCI-bus ;) ^^^^^^^ ;-))) well the ISA bus would be more than enough!! By the way the idea is not bad but not very easy to realise, although there is already a QL on an ISA-card called QXL and I have read about an Atari ST as an ISA-card ... Bye, Arne +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it (up to 14. Jan. 1995) | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 9pm CET | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 20:09:57 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411092002.AA11800@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: pak??? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 21:02:47 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <4881@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 9, 94 05:13:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 604 Lines: 20 > > OK I do not download SAM files ysyally here, but I had assumed > they were saved as TEledisk images, as this is what I do. > However, the terminal is a .PAK, but not the PC version. So what > do I need to get it into a SAM readable form? You need the ./sam-coupe/utils/discutils/utils.td0 :) > Brian > > -- > Brian Gaff Sam Dept. > -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 21:56:23 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 21:52:05 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411091143.AA00517@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 9, 94 12:42:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1420 Lines: 45 > Then obviously a DMA is needed. Yup :) > Do you _really_ have to do this much checking for each pair of bytes? > If that's the case then there's something wrong with the hardware. You > should just be able to tell the disk to read a sector and then do 512 INs > in a row to read it. Even the ZX Microdrive did that (well, as far as I > remember anyway). If an error occurs in the middle, the hardware should > compensate by giving the program dummy values until al lthe bytes have been > read, at which point it can check for an error indication. By the way, you > can save T-states in that loop with: > > main.loop: > in a,(status) > rla > ret nc > and 16 > jr z,main.loop > > (this loses 3 T-states if data is immediately available but saves 8 on each > time round the loop). The amount of checking is *just in case* the drive is slow on providing a byte -- some drives may be slower than others in this respect. > > read.byte: > > in a,(data) > > ld (hl),a > > inc hl > > in a,(data) > > ld (hl),a > > inc hl > > jr main.loop > > What's wrong with "ini"? It takes 16 cycles to the 24 of "in a,(n);ld(hl),a; > inc hl". Also, "jp" is two cycles faster than "jr". This code was only written as an example, and besides: (1) the ports ain't finalised yet, so INI couldn't be used if say there's a different port for each byte of the word to read in (2) It's relocatable as it is ;) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 21:57:51 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 21:55:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199411091254.AA06897@ulke.hiMolde.no> from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 9, 94 01:54:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 202 Lines: 8 > > wouldn't work with every drive... Soo.... Memory? We've got the RYAN 1Gb > > interface nearly done... Text Mode? We're looking into it as a new screen > > Is that 1 Giga-bit or -byte? Byte :) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 22:01:58 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 21:59:02 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <4876@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 9, 94 02:15:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1089 Lines: 25 (Briang Gaff wrote to MarsBar:) > Don't you paint ME as a fat cat getting rich! I have spent > HOURSE on phones getting files, sorting out users of Pro-Dos, > BUT I DO have to live, I CANNOT command a salery. I am slowly > going completely blind, already registered as such. I must be > MAD to support the SAM, however, its partly my baby, I was in at > the start, several thousands of pounds of MY money went into > what I considered to be a gamble. So WATCH who you sling holier > than thou mud at, Mars me old cocker! :-) Yeah, Geoff... it would appear (and I have suspected for some time ;) ) that Brian is the only decent chap out of the Format mob -- it's Bob who's the enemy / one who won't listen. :) Believe me; Brian is an okay guy (who's very tolerant deadline wise... I'll get a copy of Termite so far in the post to you within the next week... it's not in a very user friendly state though :( ) BTW: i've sent a copy of the partition table structure to Bob today :) > Oh, and perhaps you could knock up some Spectrum membranes for > nothing in your spare time... Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 22:04:59 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:02:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411092010.aa19391@ax433.mclink.it> from "Arne Di Russo" at Nov 9, 94 08:10:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1153 Lines: 26 > > Welll.... we've nearly got MasterDOS patched... but it is a bit wasteful > > using an 80Mb hard drive as a 1Mb second drive :) > > Yeah, even more wasteful than the way Windows programs fill up > PC harddisks! ;-) I've been pretty ill (bedridden) so we're no further in that yet... I can't remember whether or not I mentioned this before, but i thought I'd just let you all know about my projectile vomiting exploits ;) (yuk) > I thought there was something in November where you would > also present the Multi-ROM or did I get something wrong? That was the hoped-to-be-completed date of the MultiROM, but the hard drive and lack of others helping out (most notably Simon Owen) has sort of scuppered that... of course, others (not to be named due to contractual obligations) seem more than happy to help out! > Hopefully at the end of February as I will be in Leeds at > Leeds university from mid-February 'till July as Erasmus-student! > By the way, where are you studing, and which course? Excellent! I'm in Manchester, at UMIST, studying Physics with electronics (another year to go, then on to the MCompSci 1 year conversion course!) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 22:14:25 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Partition Table details for Sam Hard Drive To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:12:14 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 5480 Lines: 168 Entropy 1 Dovey Close Astley, Tyldesley, Manchester, M29 7NP Our Ref: RFCSHD14.DOC SAM Coupe Hard-Drive Details (Partition Table Format) For Immediate Release Wednesday, November 09, 1994 Contact: Simon Cooke Entropy / Rooksoft (01942) 886084 (6pm onwards) Email: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk We would like to propose, after long discussions for the past two weeks on the SAM Coupe Internet mailing list, a format for the hard drive partition table to follow. This has been drafted by myself (Simon Cooke), and is to go under serious review by the newsgroup over the next couple of weeks. We are releasing this as a preliminary gesture until the final document is produced. SAM Hard drive partition table structure To provide for multiple disk partitions for various operating systems (for example, Unix, CP/M, Driver, etc), it has been decided to define a partition table format for the new SAM Coupe hard drive. This will also allow future machines to access the drive in a defined way if their operating systems alter in the way by which they access the drive. Provision is made for both Head/Cylinder/Sector addressing and Logical Block addressing modes (this is to allow easy cross over to the SCSI protocol if an interface to allow this becomes available, without superlatively extensive DOS rewrites). The partition table should be loaded to address &8400 (33792 decimal). This is to allow the loading of a boot sector before this address, for example from a SAM floppy disk. The value is 1024 bytes from the start, as some boot sectors on the SAM utilise the 1024 byte sector per sector format. Partition table format (512 bytes long) Offset Length Function 0 (372) Partition boot routine 372 (1) Device type(1) (Head / Cylinder / Sector type device) 373 (1) No sectors per cylinder 374 (2) No of cylinders on device 376 (1) No of heads on device (Logical Block Addressing type device) 373 (4) No of sectors on device 377 (1) Bootable partition type 378 (4) Boot sector address(2) 382 (4) First partition's details 398 (16) Second partition's details 414 (16) Third partition's details 430 (16) Fourth partition's details 446 (16) Fifth partition's details 462 (16) Sixth partition's details 478 (16) Seventh partition's details 494 (16) Eighth partition's details 510 (1) Checksum byte(5) 511 (1) 1's complement of checksum byte (1) Device type. Bit 7 set = LBA mode device, reset = HCS mode device (2) Boot sector address format is defined by boot partition type byte. (3) Partition address format is defined by partition type (4) Partition name - 3 characters eg. SAM or CPM (5) Bytes 372-510 XORed with each other. Partition entry structure: Offset Length Function 0 (1) Partition type 1 (4) Partition start address(3) 5 (4) Partition end address(3) 9 (4) Number of sectors in partition 13 (3) Partition name(4) Partition table description: A boot routine sits at address &8400 (33792), which is called when the partition table has been loaded. This routine should check the integrety of the partition table (ie making sure that partitions do not overlap). The device type is as follows: If bit 7 is reset, the device operates in HCS (Head/Cylinder/Sector) mode. If bit 7 is set, the device operates in LBA (Logical Block Addressing) mode. Device types include: 0: IDE Hard drive 1: SCSI Hard drive All other values are currently undefined. The partition and boot types work as follows: If bit 7 is reset, then the device works in HCS configuration. If bit 7 is set, then the device works in LBA configuration The partition type (also mirrored in the boot type) may have a value from 0 to 127. Values reserved so far are: Type Meaning 0 No partition present here 1 E-DOS partition 2 CP/M partition 3 West Coast DOS paritition 4-127 Currently unallocated. Contact Entropy for allocation of these values to your system. The partition name is a three byte identifier code. This is a secondary form of identification and should not be relied upon - it is really of cosmetic use only, and the partition type byte should be used instead. Allocated partition names: Type Name string 0 Null (3 bytes of value &00) 1 EDS 2 CPM 3 WCD 4-127 Currently undefined. Contact Entropy to request allocation these values to your system. If a partition is unallocated, all of its 16 bytes should be null (contain &00). When partitions are allocated / deallocated, any space between partitions should be pushed together - ie, empty space remains at the end of the partition table; there are no gaps in the middle of the table formed by deallocated partitions. The partition table is "protected" by a checksum byte and a 1's complement of this byte. This is so that an easy way of determining whether or not the partition table has been corrupted is available. The checksum may be calculated and checked by the following code: (To calculate, instead of comparing the value, write it to the corresponding offset in the partition table). checksum: LD HL,&8400 LD BC,510 XOR A csum.loop: XOR (HL) INC HL DEC BC LD E,A LD A,B OR C LD A,E JR NZ,csum.loop LD HL,&85FE CP (HL) JR NZ,error ;checksum <> expected value CPL INC L CP (HL) JR NZ,error ;... rest of routine For further clarification of any part of this document, please contact me at the contact addresses listed above. Simon Cooke. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 22:23:33 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:08:48 +0000 In-Reply-To: simonc -- "Re: Hard-Disk on sam" (Nov 9, 9:52pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 697 Lines: 14 On Nov 9, 9:52pm in "Re: Hard-Disk on sam", Ian warbled: ] inc hl". Also, "jp" is two cycles faster than "jr". Ummm... if I remember rightly, on Sam jp is actually the same number of clock cycles as jr, as everything works in multiples of 4 cycles. I think it was Stefan Drysen (sorry, don't know if that's spelt right) that worked out this one, it's something to do with the ASIC timings. Get a Sam, Ian. You really would be a great bonus to Entropy :) :) BassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumping PumpingJumpingBassKeepsPumpingBassKeepsPumpingGimmeASmileForTheFutureAndIHeard ItOnTheRadioAndISawItOnTheTelevisionBackIn1988... gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 22:34:27 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:17:12 +0000 In-Reply-To: Briansam -- "Re: Hard-Disk on sam" (Nov 9, 2:15pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1542 Lines: 38 On Nov 9, 2:15pm in "Re: Hard-Disk on sam", Brian warbled: ] Don't you paint ME as a fat cat getting rich! I have spent ] HOURS on phones getting files, sorting out users of Pro-Dos, Ummm. I said I respect you for providing a service that users need. I said I respect you for working hard. I _didn't_ say you were a fat cat getting rich. ] BUT I DO have to live, I CANNOT command a salery. I am slowly ] going completely blind, already registered as such. I must be ] MAD to support the SAM, however, its partly my baby, I was in at ] the start, several thousands of pounds of MY money went into ] what I considered to be a gamble. So WATCH who you sling holier ] than thou mud at, Mars me old cocker! :-) I'm not slinging holier than though mud. I'm simply saying that for the Sam to succeed we need (read _NEED_) enthusiasts. We also _need_ people like you, the professionals who can get things done and respond to the needs of the users. What we _don't_ need is Bob with his `teams' sitting there working only on projects they already have a guarantee of capitol gain from. ] Oh, and perhaps you could knock up some Spectrum membranes for ] nothing in your spare time... See above... I'm truly sorry if you felt my (lukewarm) flame was directed at you - it was in no way intended to be such. BassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumping PumpingJumpingBassKeepsPumpingBassKeepsPumpingGimmeASmileForTheFutureAndIHeard ItOnTheRadioAndISawItOnTheTelevisionBackIn1988... gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 22:42:13 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:20:45 +0000 In-Reply-To: simonc -- "Re: Hard-Disk on sam" (Nov 9, 9:59pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 868 Lines: 20 On Nov 9, 9:59pm in "Re: Hard-Disk on sam", cookie warbled: ] Yeah, Geoff... it would appear (and I have suspected for some time ;) ) ] that Brian is the only decent chap out of the Format mob -- it's Bob who's ] the enemy / one who won't listen. :) Believe me; Brian is an okay guy (who's ] very tolerant deadline wise... I'll get a copy of Termite so far in the post ] to you within the next week... it's not in a very user friendly state though ] :( ) I already basically said this myself. The only times I've met / spoken to Brian I've found him helpful, interested and informative. The only time I met Bob he ran away :) BassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumping PumpingJumpingBassKeepsPumpingBassKeepsPumpingGimmeASmileForTheFutureAndIHeard ItOnTheRadioAndISawItOnTheTelevisionBackIn1988... gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 22:45:43 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:43:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Mars Bar" at Nov 9, 94 10:20:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 693 Lines: 19 [B> ] Yeah, Geoff... it would appear (and I have suspected for some time ;) ) > ] that Brian is the only decent chap out of the Format mob -- it's Bob who's > ] the enemy / one who won't listen. :) Believe me; Brian is an okay guy (who's > ] very tolerant deadline wise... I'll get a copy of Termite so far in the post > ] to you within the next week... it's not in a very user friendly state though > ] :( ) > > I already basically said this myself. Yeah, I know - found out when i just read the message :) > The only times I've met / spoken to Brian I've found him helpful, interested > and informative. > > The only time I met Bob he ran away :) *grins*... and wasn't that fun? :) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 22:47:20 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:45:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Mars Bar" at Nov 9, 94 10:08:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 522 Lines: 12 > Ummm... if I remember rightly, on Sam jp is actually the same number of > clock cycles as jr, as everything works in multiples of 4 cycles. I think > it was Stefan Drysen (sorry, don't know if that's spelt right) that > worked out this one, it's something to do with the ASIC timings. Excellent! I'd nearly worked it out, but hadn't resolved it to that much detail... btw: that 4 tstate timing is synched to the horiz. and vertical flybacks :) > Get a Sam, Ian. You really would be a great bonus to Entropy :) :) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 22:52:36 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: From Martin Rookyard: re: Idealists :) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:48:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2636 Lines: 44 Today I was called an idealist! Sorry to disappoint but I unfortunately live in the real world. I am well aware that BB has to make several thousand pounds each and every year from Format and SAM Coupe just to pay Jenny and his own bills. I am fortunate in that I have a day-time job (for now!) which pays my bills so that I can develop SAM hardware for zero return. If the SAM fell flat on its face tomorrow it would simply be a disappointment and not a loss of livelihood. Mr Brenchley on the other hand should be trying to create as much interest in the SAM and get as many users as possible. As the SAM stands at the moment it has very little to attract new users when compared with some other machines in a similar price range. Bruce Gordon did an excellent job in designing the SAM, he has definitely got my respect, but that does not mean the SAM is perfect and the versatility of the expansion port is evidence that it was designed to be expanded and improved. To date the amount of assistance from Mr Brenchley is a total of ZERO. A fax was sent to Format which offered to supply a video sync splitter which would help to interface VGA type monitors to the SAM. This is definitely not in competition with BB and was simply an offer of help to Format readers but BB in his infinite wisdom decided to not to pass this offer on to his readership. Why? I have heard from various sources about BB ideas on how to give the SAM a hard drive and have spoken to him direct on this score about compatibility with other hardware. Two weeks ago I purchased a harddrive for my laptop, which rejected the new organ. This was the catalyst that started the interface design. I will not be going into competition with BB on the HD front (unless it is a total cockup or he treats me like shit again). I am creating a PIO type of interface and hopefully a DMA version (for speed transfers and yet to be tried out) which will possibly be cheaper to build than the design I think BB is using. I am open to offers if anyone want to buy the designs. My overall opinion is that BB is the idealist as he seems to be living in a world of 'the SAM is perfect and needs no improvement'. Okay he may not have the fund available to support new hardware but that is NO REASON to refuse to help people who are trying to support the machine that forms part of his livelihood, is it? Incidently, I have not seen an advert for the SAM anywhere other than in Format, Fred etc. which collectively cover a very small user group when compared with the computer user as a whole. Martin Rookyard (personal replies c/o rooksoft@jumper.mcc.ac.uk) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 9 23:58:56 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: RE: pak??? Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 18:58:00 PST Message-Id: <2EC1D1C8@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 23 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 486 Lines: 23 ---------- > From: sam-users-owner > To: sam-users > Subject: pak??? > Date: 09 November 1994 17:13 > > OK I do not download SAM files ysyally here, but I had assumed > they were saved as TEledisk images, as this is what I do. > However, the terminal is a .PAK, but not the PC version. So what > do I need to get it into a SAM readable form? You need ARCHIV fby Rumsoft & Saposoft, I think it's un the Utils disk at nvg.unit.no. Dan Doore > Brian > > -- > Brian Gaff Sam Dept. > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 06:06:46 1994 Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 05:45:38 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <4913@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: pak??? X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 625 Lines: 25 In message <199411092002.AA11800@ulke.hiMolde.no> Frode Tennebo writes: > You need the ./sam-coupe/utils/discutils/utils.td0 :) > > > Brian > > > > -- > > Brian Gaff Sam Dept. > > > > > -- > * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * Erm I do? I have very little luck with that site. Does it have low bandwidth to Demon or what. The couple of times I did get in it froze in the middle of a download and my terminal timed out. Mot got in for a month or two because I just ret a message about Resolving the site and there it sits... Maybe the link needs new batteries! :-) Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 06:06:48 1994 Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 05:51:25 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <4914@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 253 Lines: 13 In message Simon Cooke writes: > > BTW: i've sent a copy of the partition table structure to Bob today :) > > > Si > > Oh dear, I hope community care is working well in Gloucester! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 06:06:52 1994 Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 05:56:55 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <4915@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Partition Table details for Sam Hard Drive X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 285 Lines: 12 Hey, you left out two partitions! A Demo Coders one This can only be accessed if you obtain a sectret password... :-) Then there is the Crippledos partition... This will be known as BobDos for short... Actually, he knows what I think about SamDos... Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 07:23:26 1994 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 09 Nov 94 23:57:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam Message-Id: <93f_9411100659@centron.com> Organization: Centronics BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2721 Lines: 91 On (09 Nov 94) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote... s > From: Simon Cooke s > Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:24:14 +0000 (GMT) s > s > > s > > Whay about the interleave and skew? Is that a way to get it s > > faster? s > To tell the truth, as far as my tests indicate, the problem's with the s > speed of the SAM... NOT! s > To read a sector at the moment, you have to do the equivalent of: [Setup deleted] s > main.loop: s > in a,(status) s > bit 3,a s > jr nz,read.byte s > rla s > ret nc s > jr main.loop s > s > read.byte: s > in a,(data) s > ld (hl),a s > inc hl s > in a,(data) s > ld (hl),a s > inc hl s > jr main.loop s > s > s > And that's effectively it... the place where it slows down is that s > main loop... and I've not even put the error checking in it (which is s > mostly redundant -- you can do it at the end of that loop anyway) Si, What are you doing! replace that last bit thus:- read.byte: ld c,data ld b,0 inir ; reads 256 bytes inir ; reads next 256 bytes echk ; a macro to check for an unrecovered read error ret Once it has been determined that data is ready to be read, then at least one sector is in the buffer waiting! I'm sure I've told you this before! There's no need to check bit 3 on every word read this aint a dumb controller chipset ala bobs HD;-) Somthing like you're check before each read will be fine for getting drive ID data and when reading other variable length data fields during diadnostics ie sector + ECC data etc. but NOT for single or multiple sector-sized reads or writes:-) Hey Si don't I get a prototype board? or at least a pcb layout so I can build my own to begin development of my cp/m+ bios with it? If the prototype inteface is functional then maybe it'd be a good idea to let serious programers buy them at cost so we can get into talking to the HD an produce some standard utils that'll just need port changes to work with the real thing when that is complete:-) Otherwise you'll be the only one fluent at talking low-level IDE I/O and ALL the utility software will be down to you to develop before you can get the multiROM in a sale-able condition! Regards Johnathan. PS re hacking the HD into Masterdos.... Why not hack the RamDrive routines instead and get upto 5 x 780k native partitions on it? PPS If I was BOB I'd page the DISC2 address space between the FDC and the IDE card using spare bits in the internal sam-elite printer strobe port and have an IDE port on the oposite end to the parallel socket!  -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 10:08:58 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 09:34:46 +0000 In-Reply-To: simonc -- "Re: Hard-Disk on sam" (Nov 9, 10:45pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 578 Lines: 12 On Nov 9, 10:45pm in "Re: Hard-Disk on sam", Si warbled: ] Excellent! I'd nearly worked it out, but hadn't resolved it to that much ] detail... btw: that 4 tstate timing is synched to the horiz. and vertical ] flybacks :) You obviously don't read your Fred... then again, neither do I, he told me about it at the previous Gloucester Show... BassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumping PumpingJumpingBassKeepsPumpingBassKeepsPumpingGimmeASmileForTheFutureAndIHeard ItOnTheRadioAndISawItOnTheTelevisionBackIn1988... gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 11:26:33 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411101123.AA17084@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:23:14 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9411092011.aa19529@ax433.mclink.it> from "Arne Di Russo" at Nov 9, 94 08:11:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 995 Lines: 28 > > > Hello Frode, > > > From: Frode Tennebo > > Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam > > Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 13:54:34 +0100 (MET) > > > >> wouldn't work with every drive... Soo.... Memory? We've got the RYAN > 1Gb > >> interface nearly done... Text Mode? We're looking into it as a new > screen > > > > Is that 1 Giga-bit or -byte? > > I don't think that 1 Giga-bit or -byte makes much difference, > it's always more than you will ever be able to buy or to use! ;-)) I should always be able to use what I have. I once used 800K on a 128K Spectrum ;) And with one GB you could have one heck of a LZW-compression table. :) Or even better....I could sample my entire ABBA collection and play it on my sam! :) -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 11:27:16 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411101124.AA17124@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:24:35 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9411092011.aa19593@ax433.mclink.it> from "Arne Di Russo" at Nov 9, 94 08:11:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1938 Lines: 48 > > Hello Frode, > > > From: Frode Tennebo > > Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam > > Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 13:45:52 +0100 (MET) > > > My idea was to use the existing pieces of PC-hardware, eg. the > > GUS, Dinamite, etc, as ad-ons to a SAM 'Pro' (thus, we all agree > ^^^^ > The GUS??!! I have the GUSMAX on my PC, it's one of the main > reasons for which I bought the PC ... :-)) > I really would like to have a similar card on the SAM ... > I would even be possible at least for the synth part of the GUS as > it doesn't require much CPU power... My idea is to use exactly the same card for the SAM. You only need to have a similar bus-structure as the PC to control it. The same with all the other PC-ad-ons. > > > that the PC is shitty (?) :), it has some advantages in that > > there is no other platform that has such a high degree of > > support), keeping the basic design of the SAM, but using the > > much more advanced, mass-produced ad-ons for the PC. That is, > > a SAM with PCI-bus ;) > ^^^^^^^ > ;-))) well the ISA bus would be more than enough!! > By the way the idea is not bad but not very easy to realise, > although there is already a QL on an ISA-card called QXL and > I have read about an Atari ST as an ISA-card ... > > Bye, > Arne > > +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ > | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it (up to 14. Jan. 1995) | > | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | > | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 9pm CET | > +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ > -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From imc Thu Nov 10 11:27:32 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 11:27:32 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 9, 94 9:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 786 Lines: 18 On Wed, 9 Nov 1994 21:52:05 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > > Do you _really_ have to do this much checking for each pair of bytes? > The amount of checking is *just in case* the drive is slow on providing a > byte -- some drives may be slower than others in this respect. That's what WAIT states are for (although a polling loop at the very start might be necessary, of course). But never mind because Johnathan Taylor (how many "h"s are there in your name, by the way?) has already recommended the use of inir (although several ini instructions would be faster). > (1) the ports ain't finalised yet, so INI couldn't be used if say there's a > different port for each byte of the word to read in If there is then it's a very stupid piece of hardware and wants redesigning. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 11:27:46 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411101125.AA17168@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:25:41 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 9, 94 09:55:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 564 Lines: 20 > > > > wouldn't work with every drive... Soo.... Memory? We've got the RYAN 1Gb > > > interface nearly done... Text Mode? We're looking into it as a new screen > > > > Is that 1 Giga-bit or -byte? > > Byte :) Incidentally this is written GB (says may lecturer in digital electronics). > > Si > -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From imc Thu Nov 10 11:31:16 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 11:31:16 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Mars Bar" at Nov 9, 94 10:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1001 Lines: 25 On Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:08:48 +0000, Mars Bar said: > On Nov 9, 9:52pm in "Re: Hard-Disk on sam", Ian warbled: > ] inc hl". Also, "jp" is two cycles faster than "jr". > Ummm... if I remember rightly, on Sam jp is actually the same number of > clock cycles as jr, as everything works in multiples of 4 cycles. I think > it was Stefan Drysen (sorry, don't know if that's spelt right) that > worked out this one, it's something to do with the ASIC timings. Well I shall have to do some experimenting on that front. Presumably it depends whether the screen is on or not and whether the routine is in ROM? If not then it's a stupid piece of hardware and it should have been redesigned (though that does explain why the Sam almost always seems to run at the same speed as a Spectrum rather than 1.7 times as fast as it should be). > Get a Sam, Ian. Already have done. Where have you been the last week? > You really would be a great bonus to Entropy :) :) Why's that then? :-) imc From imc Thu Nov 10 11:33:16 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 11:33:16 GMT In-Reply-To: <199411101125.AA17168@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 10, 94 12:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 165 Lines: 6 On Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:25:41 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > Incidentally this is written GB (says may lecturer in digital electronics). Is he British? :-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 11:43:15 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411101140.AA17538@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:40:00 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 9, 94 10:45:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 907 Lines: 25 > > > Ummm... if I remember rightly, on Sam jp is actually the same number of > > clock cycles as jr, as everything works in multiples of 4 cycles. I think > > it was Stefan Drysen (sorry, don't know if that's spelt right) that > > worked out this one, it's something to do with the ASIC timings. > > Excellent! I'd nearly worked it out, but hadn't resolved it to that much > detail... btw: that 4 tstate timing is synched to the horiz. and vertical > flybacks :) Eh...you must be joking? Surely jr/jp are not affected by the ASIC internal timing-quirks? > > > Get a Sam, Ian. You really would be a great bonus to Entropy :) :) > > Si > -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 11:54:49 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411101149.AA17822@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: pak??? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:49:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: agulbra@nvg.unit.no In-Reply-To: <4913@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 10, 94 05:45:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 140 Lines: 4 > > In message <199411092002.AA11800@ulke.hiMolde.no> Frode Tennebo writes: > > You need the ./sam-coupe/utils/discutils/utils.td0 :) > > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 12:03:24 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411101200.AA18100@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:00:50 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9411101133.AA09708@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 10, 94 12:33:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 459 Lines: 17 > > On Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:25:41 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > > Incidentally this is written GB (says may lecturer in digital electronics). > > Is he British? :-) Harr harr :) > > imc > -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 12:04:00 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411101200.AA18074@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:00:26 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9411101131.AA09684@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 10, 94 12:31:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1384 Lines: 37 > > On Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:08:48 +0000, Mars Bar said: > > On Nov 9, 9:52pm in "Re: Hard-Disk on sam", Ian warbled: > > ] inc hl". Also, "jp" is two cycles faster than "jr". > > > Ummm... if I remember rightly, on Sam jp is actually the same number of > > clock cycles as jr, as everything works in multiples of 4 cycles. I think > > it was Stefan Drysen (sorry, don't know if that's spelt right) that > > worked out this one, it's something to do with the ASIC timings. > > Well I shall have to do some experimenting on that front. Presumably it > depends whether the screen is on or not and whether the routine is in > ROM? If not then it's a stupid piece of hardware and it should have > been redesigned (though that does explain why the Sam almost always > seems to run at the same speed as a Spectrum rather than 1.7 times as > fast as it should be). Perhaps I'll look up my benchmark-test I did some years back?! > > > Get a Sam, Ian. > > Already have done. Where have you been the last week? > > > You really would be a great bonus to Entropy :) :) > > Why's that then? :-) > > imc > -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From imc Thu Nov 10 12:05:58 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 12:05:58 GMT In-Reply-To: <199411101200.AA18074@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 10, 94 1:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 171 Lines: 6 On Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:00:26 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > Perhaps I'll look up my benchmark-test I did some years back?! I still know where mine is (I think). imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 12:24:20 1994 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen Message-Id: <199411101220.NAA24844@flipper.pvv.unit.no> Subject: Re: pak??? To: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no (Frode Tennebo) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:20:22 +0100 (MET) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no, agulbra@nvg.unit.no In-Reply-To: <199411101149.AA17822@ulke.hiMolde.no> from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 10, 94 12:49:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 965 Lines: 20 > > Erm I do? I have very little luck with that site. Does it have > > low bandwidth to Demon or what. The couple of times I did get in > > it froze in the middle of a download and my terminal timed out. > > Mot got in for a month or two because I just ret a message about > > Resolving the site and there it sits... More likely, you've a doubtful TCP/IP stack; what are you running? There have been some complaints, but always from people who weren't even able to tell us what they're running, beyond 'Windows' or 'DOS'. > It's most likely the UK-link that is a bit unstable. I have > experienced some problems lately. Check the trace here: That traceroute is about correct. Demon is indeed hooked up via sprintlink. There are also two other connections (that I'm aware of), but traffic between demon and non-UK endpoints will most often go via sprintlink. Reason't a bit disgusting: Some people didn't want to cooperate with each other, basically. --Arnt From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 13:43:35 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: pak??? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:39:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <4913@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 10, 94 05:45:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 543 Lines: 18 > Erm I do? I have very little luck with that site. Does it have > low bandwidth to Demon or what. The couple of times I did get in > it froze in the middle of a download and my terminal timed out. > Mot got in for a month or two because I just ret a message about > Resolving the site and there it sits... > > Maybe the link needs new batteries! :-) > > Brian > > -- > Brian Gaff Sam Dept. > There's a copy of them on the Entropy Experience disk if you've got it... You could ask Dave Ledbury to send you a copy if you haven't ! :) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 13:49:11 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:44:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411101131.AA09684@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 10, 94 12:31:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 714 Lines: 18 > Well I shall have to do some experimenting on that front. Presumably it > depends whether the screen is on or not and whether the routine is in > ROM? If not then it's a stupid piece of hardware and it should have > been redesigned (though that does explain why the Sam almost always > seems to run at the same speed as a Spectrum rather than 1.7 times as > fast as it should be). Actually, there's a good reason for it... 1) The ASIC does that so that it can keep up with refreshing the whole 512k of memory properly, and 2) So that it can show the screen with as little video contention as possible.. Believe me, if it wasn't done that way, it'd be worse. I talked for a long time with Bruce on it... Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 13:49:45 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:42:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411101127.AA09672@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 10, 94 12:27:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 414 Lines: 11 [B> > (1) the ports ain't finalised yet, so INI couldn't be used if say there's a > > different port for each byte of the word to read in > > If there is then it's a very stupid piece of hardware and wants redesigning. Actually, it takes a lot of the guesswork out of programming the device... (Just *how many* data bytes did I send to it? And will the next one send the data or not? Same goes for reading) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 13:49:52 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:41:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199411101124.AA17124@ulke.hiMolde.no> from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 10, 94 12:24:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 139 Lines: 8 [GUS Cards] Having talked to Geoff last night, i think we may have a *better* alternative for you... Research will be ongoing soon! Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 14:00:12 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:55:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <93f_9411100659@centron.com> from "Johnathan Taylor" at Nov 9, 94 11:57:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2593 Lines: 68 > Si, What are you doing! replace that last bit thus:- > > read.byte: > ld c,data > ld b,0 > inir ; reads 256 bytes > inir ; reads next 256 bytes > echk ; a macro to check for an unrecovered read error > ret > > Once it has been determined that data is ready to be read, then at least one > sector is in the buffer waiting! I'm sure I've told you this before! There's > no need to check bit 3 on every word read this aint a dumb controller chipset > ala bobs HD;-) > > Somthing like you're check before each read will be fine for getting drive ID > data and when reading other variable length data fields during diadnostics ie > sector + ECC data etc. but NOT for single or multiple sector-sized reads or > writes:-) Okay okay.... I'd realised that last night -- I missread the standards sheet :( But.... it still doesn't seem to make a difference, and I'm still having problems as regards missing bytes... I *think* the signal is bouncing a lot.. Distance to drive, I reckon. Have to checkk :( > Hey Si don't I get a prototype board? or at least a pcb layout so I can build > my own to begin development of my cp/m+ bios with it? Yep, you will -- when Martin's finished... at the moment, we're only reading half sectors... > If the prototype inteface is functional then maybe it'd be a good idea to let > serious programers buy them at cost so we can get into talking to the HD an > produce some standard utils that'll just need port changes to work with the > real thing when that is complete:-) Yep! > Otherwise you'll be the only one fluent at talking low-level IDE I/O and ALL > the utility software will be down to you to develop before you can get the > multiROM in a sale-able condition! *grinS* Oh, and btw: here's a q: what do you think of the partition data, and where should the boot sector of the active partition be loaded and called from? I was thinking of at &4000, namely because it'd mean the DOS could be loaded into external memory ;) > Regards > Johnathan. > > PS re hacking the HD into Masterdos.... > Why not hack the RamDrive routines instead and get upto 5 x 780k native > partitions on it? Not enough space... the DOS takes up *just* 16k... I've had to hack out a lot of routines to get it working in there, and I *still* get dodgy sector reads :( > PPS If I was BOB I'd page the DISC2 address space between the FDC and the IDE > card using spare bits in the internal sam-elite printer strobe port and have > an IDE port on the oposite end to the parallel socket! Welll.... he wants to use LPT2 ... stupid bugger :( Si Cooke From imc Thu Nov 10 14:08:03 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 14:08:03 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 10, 94 1:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 586 Lines: 14 On Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:42:58 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > [B> > (1) the ports ain't finalised yet, so INI couldn't be used if say there's a > > > different port for each byte of the word to read in > > If there is then it's a very stupid piece of hardware and wants redesigning. > Actually, it takes a lot of the guesswork out of programming the device... > (Just *how many* data bytes did I send to it? And will the next one send > the data or not? Same goes for reading) Just how does that (whatever it means) relate to receiving 512 bytes of data after reading a sector? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 18:00:41 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 17:57:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411101408.AA13672@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 10, 94 03:08:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1035 Lines: 24 > > [B> > (1) the ports ain't finalised yet, so INI couldn't be used if say there's a > > > > different port for each byte of the word to read in > > > > If there is then it's a very stupid piece of hardware and wants redesigning. > > > Actually, it takes a lot of the guesswork out of programming the device... > > (Just *how many* data bytes did I send to it? And will the next one send > > the data or not? Same goes for reading) > > Just how does that (whatever it means) relate to receiving 512 bytes of > data after reading a sector? Right.. you were saying that it was a stupid design if the upper and lower bytes of each word were read from different ports -- or at least that's what I thought you meant... I was explaining how it was easier -- you won't *ALWAYS* be reading/writing 512 bytes -- and there's no way in hell you could get us to put another port on the board *specifically* for instances where you would, as well as the other two... Besides, this is all moot -- the design is still in martin's hands... Si From imc Thu Nov 10 18:05:44 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 18:05:44 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 10, 94 5:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 648 Lines: 17 On Thu, 10 Nov 1994 17:57:00 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > Right.. you were saying that it was a stupid design if the upper and lower > bytes of each word were read from different ports -- or at least that's what > I thought you meant... > I was explaining how it was easier It sounds harder to me. As well as everything else you have to work out which port to read from next... If you've asked for some data, then you presumably know what it is so why isn't it easier to read it all from the same port? Even if it is, then why not get the drive to write out the sector data with only one byte per word so that you only need one port? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 20:08:19 1994 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 21:04:24 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9411102104.aa07072@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1721 Lines: 39 Hello Frode, > From: Frode Tennebo > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:24:35 +0100 (MET) > > My idea is to use exactly the same card for the SAM. You only need > to have a similar bus-structure as the PC to control it. The > same with all the other PC-ad-ons. Well, it would be nice but I think it's impossible without a much more powerful processor (perhaps the new Z380 at 20Mhz or something like that) because the ISA bus is 16 bit and clocked at 8Mhz... How do you get to work that with a Z80B, 8bit, 6Mhz? >> > that the PC is shitty (?) :), it has some advantages in that >> > there is no other platform that has such a high degree of >> > support), keeping the basic design of the SAM, but using the >> > much more advanced, mass-produced ad-ons for the PC. That is, >> > a SAM with PCI-bus ;) >> ^^^^^^^ >> ;-))) well the ISA bus would be more than enough!! >> By the way the idea is not bad but not very easy to realise, >> although there is already a QL on an ISA-card called QXL and >> I have read about an Atari ST as an ISA-card ... By the way in the last message I misunderstood you. I thought you where talking about a SAM on an ISA-Card to put into a PC (similar to the QXL card) which would use the I/O ports, disk drives an HDs of the PC and not an ISA bus for the SAM which you meant instead. Ciao, Arne +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: MC8189@mclink.it (up to 14. Jan. 1995) | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 9pm CET | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 20:10:39 1994 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 21:05:07 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9411102105.aa07130@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1219 Lines: 34 Hello Simon, > From: Simon Cooke > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:41:28 +0000 (GMT) > > [GUS Cards] > > Having talked to Geoff last night, i think we may have a *better* > alternative for you... > > Research will be ongoing soon! What are you talking about? Please be more explicit!! Do you mean Geoff is planning a better soundcard for the SAM than the GUS??? (I can't imagine anything better...) BTW, yesterday a friend gave me a 8bit DAC converter card for the PC printer port (a sort of Covox compatible card), I have connected it to the parallel port of the SAM and tried to send some data to it but I don't get any sound out of it... :-( Probably the output speed in basic is far too slow, I'll have to try in mc. If it works it could be very useful for the SAM as it doesn't cost more than a few pounds to built... Bye, Arne +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it (up to 14. Jan. 1995) | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 9pm CET | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 20:10:40 1994 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 21:05:49 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9411102105.aa07200@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1314 Lines: 33 Hello Simon, > From: Simon Cooke > Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:02:38 +0000 (GMT) > > I've been pretty ill (bedridden) so we're no further in that yet... > I can't remember whether or not I mentioned this before, but i > thought I'd just let you all know about my projectile vomiting > exploits ;) (yuk) I hope you recover rapidly, ... otherwise we would have to wait too long for the EDOS! ;-)) >> Hopefully at the end of February as I will be in Leeds at >> Leeds university from mid-February 'till July as Erasmus-student! >> By the way, where are you studying, and which course? > > Excellent! I'm in Manchester, at UMIST, studying Physics with electronics > (another year to go, then on to the MCompSci 1 year conversion course!) That's great as Leeds and Manchester are quite close together, so probably I will be able to visit you ... if you don't mind! :-) BTW, I'm studying Computer Sciences here in Rome. Bye, Arne +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it (up to 14. Jan. 1995) | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 9pm CET | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 20:51:52 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 20:48:46 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411101805.AA21643@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 10, 94 07:05:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1159 Lines: 27 > It sounds harder to me. As well as everything else you have to work out > which port to read from next... Oh, it's dead easy... one port is the upper byte of the word, the other is the lower byte and transmit port -- the upper one is the receive port, the lower just reads from the latch... or something like that.. Anyway, Martin's nearly finished the schematic for the new one sooo... > If you've asked for some data, then you presumably know what it is so why > isn't it easier to read it all from the same port? Because, to save on logic, we have no way of resetting the system to a default setting -- ie we can't say "instead of reading new data, I want to read the high byte of the word this time round... in that kind of sytem you *always* have to do Read low byte, read high byte, read low byte... etc... > Even if it is, then why not get the drive to write out the sector data with > only one byte per word so that you only need one port? Yeah.. and reduce the size of the drive by half? Only some machine support that function -- a lot of them treat the register that handles it as a write precomp register, and ignore it... > imc > Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 10 21:33:04 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 21:12:15 +0000 In-Reply-To: MC8189 -- "Sam" (Nov 10, 9:05pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 951 Lines: 20 On Nov 10, 9:05pm in "Sam", Arne warbled: ] What are you talking about? Please be more explicit!! ] Do you mean Geoff is planning a better soundcard for ] the SAM than the GUS??? (I can't imagine anything better...) Well, I'm not _sure_ about this because it's only what someone told me but there may be a 16 channel 16-bit DAC card on the way for around 60 quid, not made by a Sam hardware manufacturer I might add... However, it will need _extensive_ (and it should probably read expensive :) modifications to work on the Sam as it stands, probably including a memory on-board upgrade and almost certainly having to include a very fast although simple processor... Let's just give a hint... Big Oaks Grow... BassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumpingPumpingJumpingBassKeepsThumping PumpingJumpingBassKeepsPumpingBassKeepsPumpingGimmeASmileForTheFutureAndIHeard ItOnTheRadioAndISawItOnTheTelevisionBackIn1988... gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk From imc Fri Nov 11 10:33:10 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 10:33:10 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 10, 94 8:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 387 Lines: 15 On Thu, 10 Nov 1994 20:48:46 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > in that kind of sytem you > *always* have to do Read low byte, read high byte, read low byte... etc... I don't see what's so wrong with that, but anyway even if you do have different ports then ld c,e ini ld c,d ini is still faster than whatever you wrote... imc From imc Fri Nov 11 10:46:58 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 10:46:58 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 10, 94 1:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1792 Lines: 47 I said... > Well I shall have to do some experimenting on that front. Presumably it > depends whether the screen is on or not and whether the routine is in > ROM? It turns out that even if the screen is off then the ASIC does something silly like restricting memory access to 1 every 4 T-states so that the number of cycles for most instructions is ((x+3) BAND &FC) where x is the number of cycles you would expect. However certain memory (or I/O) -intensive instructions take 4 cycles longer than that. Examples are: PUSH rr 16 IN A,(254) 16 OUT (254),A 16 INI/OUTI 20 INIR/OTIR 28 (if BC>0) LDI 20, unless DE points to the ROM in which case 16 LDIR 24 (if BC>0) Fortunately, machine code in the ROM seems to run at the correct speed as long as it doesn't try to access any memory. Maybe this is what Bob meant when he said that a special ROM is required; programs in RAM don't seem to run very fast, which is quite important with a hard drive. Simon Cooke said... > Actually, there's a good reason for it... > 1) The ASIC does that so that it can keep up with refreshing the whole 512k > of memory properly, and So how come the Spectrum manages to refresh 128K of memory without all this hassle then? > 2) So that it can show the screen with as little video contention as > possible.. But it isn't showing the screen so why does that matter? Incidentally it is very irksome that whoever designed the Sam did not think to put even a small amount of non-contended RAM in for critical routines. For example, the memory in the 512K machine is physically located in at least two places and the display can only be taken from one of them at a time, so why isn't the other bank (whichever one does not contain the display) non-contended? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 11 11:46:53 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 11:24:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411111047.AA23488@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 11, 94 11:46:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2541 Lines: 56 > So how come the Spectrum manages to refresh 128K of memory without all this > hassle then? Don't ask me.. but it *does* use different chips... 8x16k if I remember rightly... It *may* be something to do with the DRAMS Bruce was using... > > 2) So that it can show the screen with as little video contention as > > possible.. > > But it isn't showing the screen so why does that matter? > > Incidentally it is very irksome that whoever designed the Sam did not > think to put even a small amount of non-contended RAM in for critical > routines. For example, the memory in the 512K machine is physically > located in at least two places and the display can only be taken from > one of them at a time, so why isn't the other bank (whichever one does > not contain the display) non-contended? Simple -- it would require a sum total of about... ooh let me think... approximately 16-18 more pins for access to the memory by the ASIC... Now if *you* want to tell me how to get that many more without increasing the footprint and the cost of the chip, then please do... remember as well that a chip that size would require twice as much development funding (approx) because VLSI insist on rigorously checking and rechecking before it goes to silicon. Anyway, if you can do a better job, please do :) Not that I hold what Bruce did in high regard or anything ;) The only reason the SAM doesn't have more colours in its palette is because of lack of pins. The same with most things you can think of that are missing on it -- Bruce ran out of pins on the ASIC and had to cut stuff out. Apparently there is plans for an ASIC with hardware scrolling etc -- Bruce talked to Rob Holman about it in the early days... it didn't materialise because Bruce was under intense pressure from the directors, and thus he had to cut a lot out.. Actually, Bruce resigned from the board of directors (as did Alan), but they were brought back (my facts may not be correct here -- at least one of them did resign)... The reason MGT died was because of (1) New Computer Express (2) Mistimed product in an age when the Consoles were getting big and (3) The directors decided to move buildings when they couldn't afford to and there was *NO NEED* to expand. The building they moved to is *still* vacant today, with the MGT and SAM posters up. So... that's why the SAM is the state it is... Moral for the day: Don't float your company if you can help it -- you get put under too much pressure and can't do thing to your own standards -- you get rushed... Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 11 13:28:44 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411111321.AA02654@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 14:21:36 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9411102104.aa07072@ax433.mclink.it> from "Arne Di Russo" at Nov 10, 94 09:04:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1856 Lines: 44 > > Hello Frode, > > > From: Frode Tennebo > > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:24:35 +0100 (MET) > > > > My idea is to use exactly the same card for the SAM. You only need > > to have a similar bus-structure as the PC to control it. The > > same with all the other PC-ad-ons. > > Well, it would be nice but I think it's impossible without a much > more powerful processor (perhaps the new Z380 at 20Mhz or something > like that) because the ISA bus is 16 bit and clocked at 8Mhz... > How do you get to work that with a Z80B, 8bit, 6Mhz? As I said, put it in a PC-box with a ISA bus (or something) and the only thing you had to worry about is to get a fast enough SAM - the Z380 should do. :) > > >> > that the PC is shitty (?) :), it has some advantages in that > >> > there is no other platform that has such a high degree of > >> > support), keeping the basic design of the SAM, but using the > >> > much more advanced, mass-produced ad-ons for the PC. That is, > >> > a SAM with PCI-bus ;) > >> ^^^^^^^ > >> ;-))) well the ISA bus would be more than enough!! > >> By the way the idea is not bad but not very easy to realise, > >> although there is already a QL on an ISA-card called QXL and > >> I have read about an Atari ST as an ISA-card ... > > By the way in the last message I misunderstood you. I thought > you where talking about a SAM on an ISA-Card to put into a PC > (similar to the QXL card) which would use the I/O ports, disk > drives an HDs of the PC and not an ISA bus for the SAM which > you meant instead. Should do the same trick! -- * Frode Tennebo * It's better to live life in * * email: frodet@himolde.no * wealth and die poor, than live * * phone: +47 712 57716 * life in poverty and die rich. * * snail: Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY * -Frode Tennebo* From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 06:52:14 1994 Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 21:09:21 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <4960@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 165 Lines: 8 Dodgy reads... We are not looking t the noisey buss here again are we? Perhaps someone with a half decent scope should have a look? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 07:02:09 1994 Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 21:00:59 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <4959@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: pak??? X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 577 Lines: 17 The odd thing is that other non UK sites, including ijs, seem fine. I guess I could check if its purely Norway by finding another site up there are trying to get in! I use aomething called KA9Q, a hacked packet radio program. I know little about it, other than it usually works in DOS or Windows. My link to DEmon is PPP. Could someone tell me what I am looking for to undo the SAM PAK, and whst I do when I get it. I was hoping to be able to just create a SAM disc on the PC with Teledisc! Saves a lot of head scratching and wire pluging... Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 08:58:42 1994 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 11 Nov 94 01:40:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam Message-Id: <7a8_9411120843@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 6478 Lines: 143 On (10 Nov 94) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote... > Okay okay.... I'd realised that last night -- I missread the standards *Grin* > sheet :( But.... it still doesn't seem to make a difference, and I'm still > having problems as regards missing bytes... I *think* the signal is > bouncing a lot.. Distance to drive, I reckon. Have to checkk :( Send me the current versions exact schematic ASAP! any CSHOW compatable format will be fine:-) ALSO details of the logic states of the fixed lines on the IDE-bus ie which are pulled high or low and which are left floating as that's important too! At worst get a FAX image file using BGFAX and a FAX machine as a scanner Brian would probably help out with the FAX machine to use as the scanner:-) > Hey Si don't I get a prototype board? or at least a pcb layout so I can > build my own to begin development of my cp/m+ bios with it? > Yep, you will -- when Martin's finished... at the moment, we're only > reading half sectors... Eeek, ok I'll be patient... In response to imc (I think) you mentioned how ini couldn't be used if the data port was split into 2 I/O locations.... Well IF you use A8 to determine which data register then inir would still be fine as it'll cycle through odd/even etc. PLUS you'd have control over *when* a word is actually xfered;-) And of course it'll still fit in a block of eight 8bit I/O addresses. It would also remove the need for the flip-flop to count the data acceses and probably make it easily converted to GAL from the PROM design especially if running from the drive2 slot where the 2 lines /RD & /WR are condensed into the single WRL/RD line:-) > Oh, and btw: here's a q: what do you think of the partition data, and where > should the boot sector of the active partition be loaded and called from? I had a quick scan through it, though I need to export it and study it properly as this reader software doesn't expand hard-TABs so it won't line up until I read it externally.... CPM OLR CRR never had that problem...sigh... The BOOT loader for the specific operating system may be initialy hard-coded into the bootstrap portion of the multirom dependant on the type of partition selected eg ALL CP/M derivatives expect the first logical/physical sector of the boot disc will be loaded to address Zero and JP,d to zero. That is then supposed to load either the full system image ala CPM1&2 or a cut down loader ala CP/M3. the bootstrap routine could offer 2 cp/m boot types... one takes over the entire machine and loads into ram bank 0 or bank 8 to allow a 256k native mode to reside in the lower 256k:-) Though the latter Hi-loading CP/M3 could be handled from native mode if it'll boot as a 256k on a 512k Sam to save MultiROM code. Which may be better as it'll make sure there's a native-mode ready to swap to from the hi-cp/m3 system;-) CP/M was not designed to share a HD with non-CP/M partitions so we'd have to also pass the boot partition location on the HD to the boot loader. That's TBA We can probably do this using registers to save traversing ram pages in the 512byte loader:-) The ideal location for the final section of the CP/M style bootstrap would be in the ROM1 section right at the end of it so it would disable ROM0 at block A setup the HL/DE/BC registers with the drive partition data to pass and end the 64k address space with ROM1 OUT (&FA),A instruction disable and fall off the end back to the boot-loader code at &0000;-) Somthing like:- LD HL,(start_cyl) ; used by boot sector code so it doesn't need to look it up LD DE,(part_idx) ; passed to cold_boot bios to tell it where to look in table ; for partition size, We might not boot off the first part. LD BC,(drive_base) ; We might have multiple IDE cards so this'll tell which ; one to use;-) ; May require disabling the MultiROM RAM to avoid contention if it's enable;-) LD A,%00100000 ; switch out ROM1 & ROM0 and page in ram zero JP go_cpm ORG &FFFE go_cpm: OUT (LMPR),A END ; literaly on entry to the boot-sector code BC points to base addres. so I don't need to check LMPR there All I'd need to do is setup a multiple sector read from the sector after the boot loader and load to whatever address I link the image to and jump to it! The entire boot-sector code should take up much less than 128 bytes! The state of the HMPR is not important as the latter loader will set that up itself:-) > I was thinking of at &4000, namely because it'd mean the DOS could be > loaded into external memory ;) Even if the boot sector was loaded at or above &8000 you'd still be allowed to set LMPR to the same as the current HMPR and jump down low... Amazing what can be done in 512bytes of properly size optimised code! The way the native stuff boots is entirely upto you... To be honest I don't know enough about the native mode boot operations to advise on a compatable HD alterative, I did think about get the ROM disasembly but nevr bothered as I don't use native mode if I can help it;-) Undefined operating systems eg Unix must, by their yet to be designed character, be booted from an existing operating system eg a CP/M .COM or native CODE file. The only native software I use is LERM SAMDISK Ver2 to repair the odd corrupted track and that VERY rarely, Oh and COMET when hacking ProDos source about but that's only because it's easier bringing up a boot disk from native mode. > Not enough space... the DOS takes up *just* 16k... I've had to hack out a > lot of routines to get it working in there, and I *still* get dodgy sector > reads :( Are you hacking MasterDos with the aid of Source from Andy or are you hacking it from your own disasemblies of it? If the latter it might be worth giving Andy a bell and ask him if you can have a copy of the source for private use only:-) With the aid of your schematic etc. I *should* be able to pin the sector read, and probably write, problems down for you:-) >> PPS If I was BOB I'd page the DISC2 address space between the FDC and the >> IDE card using spare bits in the internal sam-elite printer strobe port >> and have an IDE port on the oposite end to the parallel socket! > Welll.... he wants to use LPT2 ... stupid bugger :( He certainly aint a Bruce Gordan! Regards. JT.  -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 10:31:20 1994 Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 10:21:41 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <4999@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 234 Lines: 8 There was also the BIG mistake of using a high street bank for the loans, not to mention a twit of a finacial director who never kept his hand on the tiller! Brian (This SAM inversor, is a banker detester!) -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 10:31:21 1994 Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 10:24:33 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5000@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 91 Lines: 6 The Put it in a PC Box is in fact what Bob wants to do... Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 10:45:42 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411121043.AA14362@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 11:43:50 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <5000@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 12, 94 10:24:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 428 Lines: 16 > > The Put it in a PC Box is in fact what Bob wants to do... Really??? Why does he want to design a 40MB hard disc interface then? > > Brian > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One Yesterday is Worth a Quarter of One To-morrow... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | IRC@Luke | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 16:31:54 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: Digitisers & Scanners Date: Sat, 12 Nov 94 16:28:00 PST Message-Id: <2EC55D8E@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 17 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 586 Lines: 17 I got a copy of the MiDGIT digitiser screens and although they were a lot better than the ones I got off SAMCO those many moons ago, they still seemed a bit odd (as digitised piccies tend to look) when compared with scanned pictures and this got me thinking. I have seen ads for 16/32 greyscale hand scanners that hook up to the parallel port of notebooks, would it be practical to hook one of these up to a Sam, via either a custom I/F, SPI or through the serial port? By the way, MiDGET looks ace, but Mr Rookyard's 'Athena Cat Collection' is most worrying..... :) Dan Doore. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 21:24:00 1994 Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 20:45:14 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5015@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 390 Lines: 17 In message <199411121043.AA14362@ulke.hiMolde.no> Frode Tennebo writes: > > > > The Put it in a PC Box is in fact what Bob wants to do... > > Really??? Why does he want to design a 40MB hard disc interface > then? > > > > > Brian > > I am not with you... He still needs a HD interface. Its only a box, PSU and a keyboard interface, with a SAM in it.. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 21:24:01 1994 Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 20:47:56 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5016@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Digitisers & Scanners X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 387 Lines: 21 In message <2EC55D8E@courier.lmu.ac.uk> "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" writes: > > > By the way, MiDGET looks ace, but Mr Rookyard's 'Athena Cat Collection' is > most worrying..... :) > > Dan Doore. > > Is this some kind of acronym for norty pictures that I am unaware of? :-) Brian I note that on my hand scanner there is a PCB with a tiny custom chip on it. -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 23:37:41 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 23:35:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <7a8_9411120843@centron.com> from "Johnathan Taylor" at Nov 11, 94 01:40:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4219 Lines: 89 > Send me the current versions exact schematic ASAP! any CSHOW compatable format > will be fine:-) ALSO details of the logic states of the fixed lines on the > IDE-bus ie which are pulled high or low and which are left floating as that's > important too! > At worst get a FAX image file using BGFAX and a FAX machine as a scanner Brian > would probably help out with the FAX machine to use as the scanner:-) Martin's rebuilding it... hang on a mo :) > In response to imc (I think) you mentioned how ini couldn't be used if the > data port was split into 2 I/O locations.... > Well IF you use A8 to determine which data register then inir would still be > fine as it'll cycle through odd/even etc. PLUS you'd have control over *when* > a word is actually xfered;-) > And of course it'll still fit in a block of eight 8bit I/O addresses. > It would also remove the need for the flip-flop to count the data acceses and > probably make it easily converted to GAL from the PROM design especially if > running from the drive2 slot where the 2 lines /RD & /WR are condensed into > the single WRL/RD line:-) What I'd like to know is who said anything about using a PROM or a GAL? :) We've costed the interfaces -- the one based on your design that Bob's probably using will cost about L18, not including PCBs manufacture, and that's at the 25 unit discount for bulk component buying... Martin's design (yet to be tested, but preliminary results look hopeful), comes to L9, not including PCB manufacture, again at the 25 unit discount price... And that's not using a ROM, PAL or GAL :) > > Oh, and btw: here's a q: what do you think of the partition data, and where > > should the boot sector of the active partition be loaded and called from? > > I had a quick scan through it, though I need to export it and study it > properly as this reader software doesn't expand hard-TABs so it won't line up > until I read it externally.... CPM OLR CRR never had that problem...sigh... Oh well :) > > I was thinking of at &4000, namely because it'd mean the DOS could be > > loaded into external memory ;) > > Even if the boot sector was loaded at or above &8000 you'd still be allowed to > set LMPR to the same as the current HMPR and jump down low... Amazing what can > be done in 512bytes of properly size optimised code! > The way the native stuff boots is entirely upto you... To be honest I don't > know enough about the native mode boot operations to advise on a compatable HD > alterative, I did think about get the ROM disasembly but nevr bothered as I > don't use native mode if I can help it;-) Don't worry about it -- it's pretty flexible (the boot routine must load to 32768, but other than that, anything goes... actually, that 32768 value is just for compatibility with the floppy boot -- something that people will feel comfortable with...) > > Undefined operating systems eg Unix must, by their yet to be designed > character, be booted from an existing operating system eg a CP/M .COM or > native CODE file. I dunnno.... if they follow the BOOT partition details I'm hoping to put down, they should work fine... > The only native software I use is LERM SAMDISK Ver2 to repair the odd > corrupted track and that VERY rarely, Oh and COMET when hacking ProDos source > about but that's only because it's easier bringing up a boot disk from native > mode. *laughs*... well, I'm a big fan of COMET, but there you go... > Are you hacking MasterDos with the aid of Source from Andy or are you hacking > it from your own disasemblies of it? If the latter it might be worth giving > Andy a bell and ask him if you can have a copy of the source for private use > only:-) Andy gave me the DOS source last year to work with, but other stuff (like Uni work) got in the way, so I didn't do anything with it...now that the HD is along, it's full steam ahead, but I wish I knew how MasterBASIC compressed stuff -- ie source code :) > > Welll.... he wants to use LPT2 ... stupid bugger :( > > He certainly aint a Bruce Gordan! Heheheheh... you're right there... Simon ps Jonathan -- let me know your phone number! We neeeeeeeed to talk! (well, in the not too distant future, anyway) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 23:38:59 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 23:37:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <4960@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 11, 94 09:09:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 511 Lines: 18 > > Dodgy reads... We are not looking t the noisey buss here again > are we? Perhaps someone with a half decent scope should have a > look? Well... Martin's got a half-decent scope (well, it looks battered enough to rate half-decent instead of decent), so I'll set him on it... (he says, over my shoulder "It's not bad for a freebie") It's just a matter of having time to get around to it while I'm hogging the interface running off pirate copies of Lemmings from the hard drive :-) (I am joking btw) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 23:40:29 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 23:38:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <4999@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 12, 94 10:21:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 447 Lines: 13 > > There was also the BIG mistake of using a high street bank for > the loans, not to mention a twit of a finacial director who > never kept his hand on the tiller! You don't happen to know where Alan is at the moment? I'd like to send him a card or something, but I can't find anyone who actually has an address for him... (Just to prove that the money and faith he put into bringing me to SAMCo for a while is paying off... sort of ;) ) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 23:57:09 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: West Coast Hard Drive Stuff To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 23:55:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3699 Lines: 81 Guess who I've had on the phone (Friday night, this is)...? Bob Brenchley! We talked for about an hour, and it seems that I've done him some injustices (well, he did them to himself, and is now contradicting himself, but never mind)... It appears that the plan is for any IDE drive to be used, but for <60Mb ones to be released with the interface at first to get them out for less than L150. Anyway, he was phoning me up about the HD interface and DOS system... Apparently the partition table idea is a no-no... this is what him and Nev Young have come up with... HDOS is their system, which *everything* has to go through to get access to the HD (it's "naughty" to access the IDE drive direct). In other words, it's a memory resident level between hardware and software (including CP/M, Unix, et al), which accepts logical sector numbers and spits out read/writes to the appropriate sector on the drive. To create a "partition", you allocate a file using HDOS (say 20Mb long), which you then access using logical sectors which HDOS references for you... the advantage of this being totally flexible partition size (not quite... I can see problems with fixed-at-setup data structures etc which rely on the partition being a given size forever) which doesn't have to be contiguous. As far as the DOS is concerned, some routines will be kept on the HD itself (COPY, FORMAT are both big contenders for this), and there will be a number of overlay utilities which can be loaded into the 16/32k DOS page for this purpose... There will be something "like the Windows Swap file system" which will allow HDOS to store any tables etc it generates on the HD for later referencing (I think we're talking about Temp files here folks). When I suggested making sure that if the DOS has to be bigger than 16k (very likely) that the core routines which interface with BASIC etc are written to run from section B of the memory map (16384-32767), and others are written to run from 32768-49151 (so that they could, if the user has the memory) be moved into external memory, Bob said that if people could buy a 60Mb hard drive for L150, they won't want to buy 1Mb of memory for L90. (Which is why Martin's been working along the lines of a SIMMS memory interface for the SAM ! ) SD software are likely contenders to release the HD first, then West Coast will release a SAM-with-hd later... Erm... let's see... The interface will not be sold separately for at least 6months -- IDE isn't kept "standard" enough apparently, so to avoid problems with slightly dodgy drives a "send us your drive, we'll make sure it works and then send it back to you with interface" policy will be used. Cost cutting will _possibly_ be done by providing the +5V side of the drive from the SAM and the IDE interface, and the 12V supply from an off-the-shelf 12Vtransformer + regulator at 700mA in a 3-pin plug... ((Martin and I have serious doubts about this -- we need 12V at 1A to power the drive we've got upstairs (a western digital caviar 280), so I think there will be probs...same goes for getting the +5V from the interface/SAM)) Bob's still insistent on this +D syntax crap too... but the ROM which handles it (and some of the HDOS stuff) will be released as cheap as possible -- L400 inc p&p if poss (we doubt it!!!!!!!!) Anyway... back to the land of the living... what do you think guys? Bob doesn't want there to be a split in the SAM community, so this is all being discussed at length, and he's trying to get everyone to agree on one standard.. currently, I can see appealing aspects of his system, but I prefer my partition table idea, as it's more program-specific if it needs to be... Any takers? Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 12 23:58:34 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Boot section of partition table... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 23:56:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 232 Lines: 10 Right... nearly forgot... the RFCSHD14.DOC document (partition table info) didn't have where to load and call the boot sector pointed to by the boot address.... It should be loaded at &8600, and called there. There you go :) Si From imc Sun Nov 13 12:52:01 1994 Subject: Re: West Coast Hard Drive Stuff To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Nov 94 12:52:01 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 12, 94 11:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 286 Lines: 8 On Sat, 12 Nov 1994 23:55:31 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > Bob's still insistent on this +D syntax crap too... but the ROM which > handles it (and some of the HDOS stuff) will be released as cheap as > possible -- L400 inc p&p if poss (we doubt it!!!!!!!!) L400 or L4.00? ;-) imc From imc Sun Nov 13 13:07:03 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Nov 94 13:07:03 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 11, 94 11:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1611 Lines: 32 (incidentally, why has the title of this thread mutated? ;-) ) On Fri, 11 Nov 1994 11:24:04 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > Simple -- it would require a sum total of about... ooh let me think... > approximately 16-18 more pins for access to the memory by the ASIC... Well, in that case the ASIC could have been split into two, with one being purely for the screen and the other for everything else (well I'm not an ASIC expert so I don't actually know what I'm talking about...). But anyway, even if it was just 32K of memory in a separate chip (refreshed by the Z80 itself, perhaps), it would have been nice to have somewhere to put routines where they wouldn't have the timing messed about with (which reminds me... my PLAY command seems to work, but now I think about it I didn't do any compensating in the timing routine for this contended memory lark so if it works properly it's just a fluke, and it will need adjusting if it is placed in ROM...). If it were to be arranged properly, it might even allow a Spectrum emulator to have the ROM in a non-contended page (although that's a bit more difficulat than it should be because the Sam doesn't allow sections A and B to be paged separately). > The only reason the SAM doesn't have more colours in its palette is because > of lack of pins. The same with most things you can think of that are missing > on it -- Bruce ran out of pins on the ASIC and had to cut stuff out. And he still didn't prefer a separate graphics processor? imc PS the directory where I put the files for you has a 30-day expire period, so don't leave it too long, Si. :-) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 13 16:13:03 1994 Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 14:52:02 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5027@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 183 Lines: 10 Well, the last I heard from Alan was he was working abroad, teaching. Remember he was deeply in debt with a house owned by his bank! Bob Might know. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 13 16:13:19 1994 Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 15:01:26 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5028@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: West Coast Hard Drive Stuff X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 481 Lines: 16 Clash of the discs... >From reading the two udeas, it seems to me that Bob is aiming at the dabbler. The person who does not know a lot of in depth stuff. On the other hand, it feels like for large lots of accessing, its got to be slower? The SiCoPart system looks elegent, BUT, putting my thick user hat on, I could not understand it at all! There is a danger, once the user interface is added, that it could get bery complex, programming wise. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 13 20:31:24 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: West Coast Hard Drive Stuff To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 20:28:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411131252.AA03152@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 13, 94 01:52:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 317 Lines: 10 > On Sat, 12 Nov 1994 23:55:31 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > > Bob's still insistent on this +D syntax crap too... but the ROM which > > handles it (and some of the HDOS stuff) will be released as cheap as > > possible -- L400 inc p&p if poss (we doubt it!!!!!!!!) > > L400 or L4.00? ;-) Sorry... L 4.00 :) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 13 20:34:15 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: West Coast Hard Drive Stuff To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 20:31:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <5028@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 13, 94 03:01:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 960 Lines: 23 > >From reading the two udeas, it seems to me that Bob is aiming at > the dabbler. The person who does not know a lot of in depth > stuff. On the other hand, it feels like for large lots of > accessing, its got to be slower? That's what I'm worried about... or if it's not slower, it'll put serious limitations on things which *need* or want to use the entire 512k of memory... > The SiCoPart system looks elegent, BUT, putting my thick user > hat on, I could not understand it at all! There is a danger, > once the user interface is added, that it could get bery > complex, programming wise. It shouldn't be, if I program E-DOS right... anyone who gets to the level of writing direct-access stuff *has* to be able to program complex stuff -- I mean, would you trust your data to someone accessing the drive direct who's only just started programming? (Note: that's in general -- there are people who just start out who get along just fine :) ) Si Cooke From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 13 20:37:19 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 20:34:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411131307.AA03172@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 13, 94 02:07:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1018 Lines: 26 > If it were to be arranged properly, it might even allow a Spectrum > emulator to have the ROM in a non-contended page (although that's a > bit more difficulat than it should be because the Sam doesn't allow > sections A and B to be paged separately). Well... you may be interested to know that the MultiROM will have a ROM in it... this will be free, of course -- you won't be paying for that feature, it'll just be an added bonus ;) > > The only reason the SAM doesn't have more colours in its palette is because > > of lack of pins. The same with most things you can think of that are missing > > on it -- Bruce ran out of pins on the ASIC and had to cut stuff out. > > And he still didn't prefer a separate graphics processor? Yeah -- gotta remember, he was under pressure *extreeeeeeeme*. > imc > > PS the directory where I put the files for you has a 30-day expire period, > so don't leave it too long, Si. :-) Sorry, I've been ill... I should be able to get them tomorrow or Tuesday hopefully... Si From imc Mon Nov 14 10:44:43 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 10:44:43 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 13, 94 8:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 937 Lines: 23 On Sun, 13 Nov 1994 20:34:23 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > > If it were to be arranged properly, it might even allow a Spectrum > > emulator to have the ROM in a non-contended page (although that's a > > bit more difficulat than it should be because the Sam doesn't allow > > sections A and B to be paged separately). > Well... you may be interested to know that the MultiROM will have a ROM in > it... this will be free, of course -- you won't be paying for that feature, > it'll just be an added bonus ;) What's that got to do with a Spectrum emulator? Or do you mean a Spectrum ROM when you say "ROM" above? imc PS. I wrote... > my PLAY command seems to work, but now I think >about it I didn't do any compensating in the timing routine for this >contended memory lark I was incorrect. It calls the ROM delay routine to eliminate these difficulties. I just don't remember doing it, that's all... ;-) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Nov 14 11:08:04 1994 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 10:57:21 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5059@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: West Coast Hard Drive Stuff X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 303 Lines: 9 He he, I never got past doing silly screen effects in MC. I did do a few +3 DOS bits, but it was far too easy to completely screw up the disc! With an HD I can hardly imagine what might happen. I will stick to Braille, I can read and write that... ! Brian (non MC programmer) -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Nov 14 11:25:57 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411141123.AA02283@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 12:23:57 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <5015@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 12, 94 08:45:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1185 Lines: 34 > > In message <199411121043.AA14362@ulke.hiMolde.no> Frode Tennebo writes: > > > > > > The Put it in a PC Box is in fact what Bob wants to do... > > > > Really??? Why does he want to design a 40MB hard disc interface > > then? > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > I am not with you... He still needs a HD interface. Its only a > box, PSU and a keyboard interface, with a SAM in it.. OK! My idea is to take a full PC (which many have already) complete with PSU, IDE-controller, whatever sound-card, graphics-card, etc-card you have. Take out the main CPU-card and replace it with a SAM-card (or alternative, just plug it into a free slot and have some sort of mechanism that selects the card you want to use). This SAM-card should have a more-or-less identical bus-structure as the x86-cards. This way you can cut down on add-on-development-costs and in stead make a high-speed SAM computer. > Brian > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One Yesterday is Worth a Quarter of One To-morrow... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | IRC@Luke | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Nov 14 17:18:08 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 17:03:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411141044.AA00960@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 14, 94 11:44:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 377 Lines: 10 > > Well... you may be interested to know that the MultiROM will have a ROM in > > it... this will be free, of course -- you won't be paying for that feature, > > it'll just be an added bonus ;) > > What's that got to do with a Spectrum emulator? Or do you mean a Spectrum > ROM when you say "ROM" above? Yep, Speccy ROM -- sorry, but I've been a bit out of it recently Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 15 07:28:14 1994 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Interesting Sam News Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 8:25:59 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9411150825.aa27084@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2526 Lines: 50 Here is some news wich might interest you: A friend of mine, Gianni Zamperini (he was the exclusive distributor of the SAM Coupe for Italy when Samco was still alive, he is still a Sam user) has developed three new imput devices for the SAM Coupe and most other computers with digital joystick IF. They are all somewhat similar but none the less they are created for different uses. The first is the flightstick, a little rectangular box which must be held in the hand and rotated sideways and/or to the back/to the front to simulate joystick movement. This one is very good for games like flightsimulators instead of a joystick. The second one is called SamGlove and is a real VR Glove for the SAM. It uses both joystickports and gives software full control over movements of each finger and of the whole hand. The third one is called G-Lite and is a single joystickport version of the SamGlove. It dedects only the movement of the hand and of one finger (working as fire switch in joystick emulation) but is much cheaper to produce. I have seen them all with some Speccy games and some simple dedicated demo software and they work all very smooth, there are nearly no false movement dedections, and although they were still prototypes they looked quite professional especially the SamGlove which looks very similar to the expensive professional ones. For more info you can contact Gianni directly via Email gianni.zamperini@galactica.it or with a messagge in this area as he reads it too, since yesterday. He is also planning to restart a free SAM/Sinclair mag he published in Italy during the SamCo period. This time he intends to release it at least once a month as a ZXsnap file for easier distribution. Most likely it will be published both in english and in italian and could reach quite large distribution as snap files can be read on a speccy with +D or disciple, on the SAM and on the PC-Speccy emulators and as it will be free it can be distributed via modem on bullettin boards, on the speccy and SAM related Internet sites and on disk. For any contributions (articles, reviews, news ecc) contact him on the adress mentioned above or me. Bye, Arne +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it (up to 14. Jan. 1995) | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 9pm CET | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 15 17:08:09 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411151655.AA23006@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 17:55:16 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9411150825.aa27084@ax433.mclink.it> from "Arne Di Russo" at Nov 15, 94 08:25:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 533 Lines: 15 This news look very promising. Do you have any deatails where these can be bought and prices? BTW: talking about buying - I'd like to support som of the software out now. What would be best buys, if I were to spend, say L100? NOW! Off to my GF! Cheers! -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One Yesterday is Worth a Quarter of One To-morrow... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | IRC@Luke | From imc Tue Nov 15 17:12:00 1994 Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 17:12:00 GMT In-Reply-To: <199411151655.AA23006@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 15, 94 5:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 359 Lines: 11 On Tue, 15 Nov 1994 17:55:16 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ I know that's what the original quote says, but "today" and "tomorrow" haven't had hyphens in them for donkey's years. > | ....or: One Yesterday is Worth a Quarter of One To-morrow... | Surely one yesterday is worth four tomorrows? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 15 17:52:58 1994 Message-Id: <23000.9411151746@rs6-233.cls-4.bcc.ac.uk> Subject: SAM Coupe diskette drive wanted To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 17:46:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Mr Keith Turner X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 315 Lines: 8 Hi All, Who will sell me a Sam Coupe diskette drive? Preferably a second hand drive of the D.I.Y. slot-in variety, although I will settle for one of the new ones or an interface for my old +D drive if I can afford it. / To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 101 Lines: 7 It will have to be a tweaked Speccy ROM due to tape timings surely? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From imc Wed Nov 16 10:27:58 1994 Subject: Re: Hard-Disk on samu To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 10:27:58 GMT In-Reply-To: <5074@bgserv.demon.co.uk>; from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 16, 94 5:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 458 Lines: 13 On Wed, 16 Nov 1994 05:13:13 GMT, Brian Gaff Sam Dept. said: > It will have to be a tweaked Speccy ROM due to tape timings > surely? And what other fixes will it have? :-) There are several things you could fix as mentioned in Logan & O'Hara. There is also the possibility of hacking the keyboard routine so that it can read the Sam's keys (which I've already done, btw :-) ). Hey, you could even add a NMI snapshot/return to Sam/whatever routine... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 16 20:23:30 1994 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 19:12:26 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5088@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 70 Lines: 6 Today is tomorrow's yesterday... :-) Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 16 20:46:41 1994 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 20:42:41 +0100 Message-Id: <94111620424173@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk \(\) (Last exit for the lost \(a.k.a goth.black.soc\)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 110 Lines: 14 >Today is tomorrow's yesterday... :-) How right you are ! > >Brian > >-- >Brian Gaff Sam Dept. Lord B' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 17 13:04:28 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 12:59:00 PST Message-Id: <2ECBC420@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 4 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 45 Lines: 4 About as interesting as my breakfast. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 17 14:45:22 1994 Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 14:40:23 +0100 Message-Id: <94111714402333@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk \(\) (Last exit for the lost \(a.k.a goth.black.soc\)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 188 Lines: 8 I saw a message in comp.sys.sinclair with the address for a SAM WWW site Does anyone know what it is - I can't find it now? Lord Blackadder PP Entropy Technology - The Donkey's Bollox From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 11:51:55 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411181148.AA21479@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 12:48:03 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9411151712.AA08993@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 15, 94 06:12:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 886 Lines: 30 > > On Tue, 15 Nov 1994 17:55:16 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > > ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ > > I know that's what the original quote says, but "today" and "tomorrow" > haven't had hyphens in them for donkey's years. Benjamin Franklin would probably have been a couple of donkey's years by now, if...etc. > > > | ....or: One Yesterday is Worth a Quarter of One To-morrow... | > > Surely one yesterday is worth four tomorrows? Yeah! Right! What can I say....I was tired an my HP48SX did not resolv my algebraic expression well enough :) Corrected below: > > imc > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | IRC@Luke | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 12:04:48 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411181201.AA21797@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 13:01:51 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <2ECBC420@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Nov 17, 94 12:59:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 454 Lines: 17 > > > About as interesting as my breakfast. Hmmm...actually what DID you have for breakfast? Me myself, I didn't have anything at all for breakfast actually. > > Dan. > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | IRC@Luke | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 12:28:04 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411181223.AA22152@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: your mail To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 13:23:00 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <94111714402333@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> from "Last exit for the lost (a.k.a goth.black.soc)" at Nov 17, 94 02:40:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 707 Lines: 27 > > I saw a message in comp.sys.sinclair with the address for a SAM WWW site > > Does anyone know what it is - I can't find it now? It's not actually a SAM WWW site (though, I was thinking of doing one) - but theres a sam entry at http://http2.brunel.ac.uk:8080/~hcsrsml/comps.html ..originally for OLD computers. Dunno how much there's on it. > > > > Lord Blackadder > PP Entropy Technology - The Donkey's Bollox > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | IRC@Luke | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 12:41:05 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 12:36:00 PST Message-Id: <2ECD100D@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 21 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 424 Lines: 21 > > About as interesting as my breakfast. > > Hmmm...actually what DID you have for breakfast? Me myself, I > didn't have anything at all for breakfast actually. I had a sausage & fried egg butty with lots of ketchup. And very nice it was too. > > > > Dan. Sorry for being so curt, but I was having a bad day with 'junk' email on our system and I was getting 12 messages every 10 mins (my poor little inbox!). Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 13:11:51 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 12:50:08 +0000 In-Reply-To: D.J.Doore -- "Re: Interesting Sam News" (Nov 18, 12:36pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 592 Lines: 14 On Nov 18, 12:36pm in "Re: Interesting Sam News", you warbled: ] Sorry for being so curt, but I was having a bad day with 'junk' ] email on our system and I was getting 12 messages every 10 mins ] (my poor little inbox!). BARK BARK BARK!!!! JUNK EMAIL??? What the **** do you call this crap? Get it out of my sight, and post it to alt.talk.crap.about.breakfast or something. Well I don't mind bein' the first on the floor, if that's what it takes to make you _MOVE_. Don't let your spirit or your head hang low, just feel your body and get into the groove... Let The Music Lift You Up... From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 13:39:44 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 13:34:00 PST Message-Id: <2ECD1D9D@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 30 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 938 Lines: 30 Today Mr. Anonymity spat: > JUNK EMAIL??? What the **** do you call this crap? *sigh* if I _have_ to explain it to you... On mail systems you have mailing lists and groups and such like. I work in an organisation where there are 1200+ mail users and you have an option of sending a mail to all mail users. What you get is some bastard sending a mail to all users that he will be off next week, or going to the dentist or something and the situation came to a head and there was much slagging (each flame going to every user). I was quite surprised, it only took 4 hours for the three mail servers to crash. Besides, sam-users has been quiet for all week (everybody is exhausted and having recurrent nightmares about partition tables...) and I thought it would be good to lighten up, so there. The Internet is also getting hammered by bastards who junk mail, not content with junk faxing or posting ads in the newsgroups. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 14:16:32 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Infocom To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 14:12:13 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 413 Lines: 12 Having got my 486 working again (tried to add a 210Mb hd to it last night, and ended up spilling half a can of Heineken on the processor. It refreshed parts I didn't want it to reach :( ), here's an interesting poser... Anybody willing to convert a program from C to machine code? It's an Infocom games parser... Otherwise, I'll do it while I'm waiting for Martin to build the new HD board... Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 14:17:55 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 14:10:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <2ECD1D9D@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Nov 18, 94 01:34:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 276 Lines: 11 > Besides, sam-users has been quiet for all week (everybody is exhausted and > having recurrent nightmares about partition tables...) and I thought it > would > be good to lighten up, so there. *moan* please... no... mommy... help... Arrggghhhh!!!!! Si Cooke From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 14:22:58 1994 From: P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 15:08:48 +0100 X400-Originator: P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<11523.9411181408@owl.cs.bham.ac] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: your mail Message-Id: <11523.9411181408@owl.cs.bham.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: your mail Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 890 Lines: 27 >It's not actually a SAM WWW site (though, I was thinking of >doing one) - but theres a sam entry at >http://http2.brunel.ac.uk:8080/~hcsrsml/comps.html >..originally for OLD computers. Dunno how much there's on it. There is also some SAM stuff at :- http://whirligig.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93/Coupe/home.html Paul (who hasn't said anything on this list for ages....) **** ****** ***** ****** ****** --------------------- * * * * * * * * * * | paf@cs.bham.ac.uk | * * * * * * * **** * **** --------------------- * * * * ***** * ***** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **** ***** ***** ***** ***** PUT YOUR FAITH IN A LOUD GUITAR From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 16:01:25 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: The tragic end of Interesting Sam News Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 15:39:00 PST Message-Id: <2ECD3AEE@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 4 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 25 Lines: 4 End Of Line. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 16:20:39 1994 From: Robert Partington Message-Id: <9411181535.AA00409@n4a.cs.man.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Infocom To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 15:35:40 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 18, 94 02:12:13 pm Risc-Header: ARMed X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 41 Lines: 3 I'll give it a go, if you want. Rob From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 16:58:28 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 16:41:51 +0000 In-Reply-To: simonc -- "Infocom" (Nov 18, 2:12pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Infocom Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 439 Lines: 15 On Nov 18, 2:12pm in "Infocom", Si warbled: ] Anybody willing to convert a program from C to machine code? How about: gcc -o program program.c :-) Well, you didn't say _which_ machine code, did you... Well I don't mind bein' the first on the floor, if that's what it takes to make you _MOVE_. Don't let your spirit or your head hang low, just feel your body and get into the groove... Let The Music Lift You Up... From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 17:08:18 1994 From: Robert Partington Message-Id: <9411181703.AA01605@n4c.cs.man.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Infocom To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 17:03:55 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Mars Bar" at Nov 18, 94 04:41:51 pm Risc-Header: ARMed X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 208 Lines: 11 > gcc -o program program.c That generates an executable doesn't it? Surely you mean... gcc -s program.c (or on my Archie, cc -s program.c) I suppose no-one has ported GCC to the SAM? :) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 18 17:50:13 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 17:28:48 +0000 In-Reply-To: partingr -- "Re: Infocom" (Nov 18, 5:03pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Infocom Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 724 Lines: 29 On Nov 18, 5:03pm in "Re: Infocom", you warbled: ] ] > gcc -o program program.c ] ] That generates an executable doesn't it? Surely you mean... He did say machine code, not assembler... ] gcc -s program.c I _think_ (haven't checked) it's gcc -S program.c -o program.s if you want to get the source... ] (or on my Archie, cc -s program.c) I just bought an Arch (only a 310 (spew)) for 130 quid... ] I suppose no-one has ported GCC to the SAM? I'll port gcc to the sam if you get a 4M memory upgrade (minimum) cheaply (ie around 100 quid), and at least a 90M hard drive... and give me both free :) :) It would help if you got Si's 20MHz upgrade too... Otherwise... no :) Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 19 09:30:07 1994 Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 09:20:51 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5133@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Interesting Sam News X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 320 Lines: 13 Might I just possibly interject that for us dial up fok the percentage of el junko in this mail list is getting quite high. Perhaps the breakfast menu coold be sent to interested parties via Email, and anyway I had mine hours ago! Thank you, once again... THANK YOU! Brian :-) -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 22 06:39:58 1994 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 06:15:51 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5160@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Obsolete. X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 260 Lines: 10 On the Fido Obsolete echp there are a few SAM messages wanting to find software. I think these must be second hand machines. Its a shame that the sellers do not pass some contact info on the machines! Brian 1 2 testing... -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 22 10:24:24 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: PC Conversion Hassles Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 10:20:00 PST Message-Id: <2ED23620@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 34 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 891 Lines: 34 > Might I just possibly interject that for us dial up fok the > percentage of el junko in this mail list is getting quite high. > Perhaps the breakfast menu coold be sent to interested parties > via Email, and anyway I had mine hours ago! > > Thank you, once again... > > THANK YOU! Already dead buried before this came through. Right, back to more serious things. I have been using KEdisk (a fine piece of software) to convert piccies and data files from PC to SAM and I am finding it an absolute bastard when I am converting 30 files at a time. Are there: 1) Any PC converters with a batch mode (i.e. spooling files to ram disc/memory) 2) Plans for an update to KE Disk. 3) Anybody thinking of writing a SAM disc reader on the PC? Or could it be worth me getting a second drive and transferring them across that way. Any ideas? Dan Doore. From imc Tue Nov 22 10:27:43 1994 Subject: Re: PC Conversion Hassles To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 10:27:43 GMT In-Reply-To: <2ED23620@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Nov 22, 94 10:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 224 Lines: 7 On Tue, 22 Nov 94 10:20:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > 1) Any PC converters with a batch mode (i.e. spooling files to > ram disc/memory) That reminds me... will we get an XCOPY command in the MultiROM? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 22 11:54:41 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 11:34:24 +0000 In-Reply-To: D.J.Doore -- "PC Conversion Hassles" (Nov 22, 10:20am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: PC Conversion Hassles Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1329 Lines: 38 On Nov 22, 10:20am in "PC Conversion Hassles", Dan warbled: ] Already dead buried before this came through. ] ] Right, back to more serious things. ] ] I have been using KEdisk (a fine piece of software) to convert ] piccies and data files from PC to SAM and I am finding it an ] absolute bastard when I am converting 30 files at a time. ] ] Are there: ] ] 1) Any PC converters with a batch mode (i.e. spooling files to ] ram disc/memory) I don't know. ] 2) Plans for an update to KE Disk. No. I don't either have the time or the inclination - with Si's EDOS coming out soon (hahaha) and able to read MSDisks it's not worth it. If you want a batch mode, I think (haven't checked for a while) you can format a memory drive and use that to save stuff onto... although of course KEdisk will probably overwrite it - in which case the only solution I can think of is making sure that the RAMdrive is high enough not to be overwritten, probably by allocating lots of pages to memory... If you've got a memory upgrade, of course, things become easier. Ok, so it's sick. That's why KD is FREE... If you're really that bothered, all the controlling stuff is in Machine Code but the entire user interface (except the pretty (crap!) menu) is in BASIC - SO WRITE YOUR OWN... :) Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 22 12:11:05 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: Re: PC Conversion Hassles Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 12:06:00 PST Message-Id: <2ED24EF2@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 12 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 375 Lines: 12 > If you're really that bothered, all the controlling stuff is in Machine > Code but the entire user interface (except the pretty (crap!) menu) is > in BASIC - SO WRITE YOUR OWN... :) I would do except when I try and list the program it crashs, so I gave up. Could just be my copy. I can't remember reading anything on EDOS, could somebody fill me in? Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 22 13:59:10 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 13:33:05 +0000 In-Reply-To: D.J.Doore -- "Re: PC Conversion Hassles" (Nov 22, 12:06pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: PC Conversion Hassles Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 830 Lines: 24 On Nov 22, 12:06pm in "Re: PC Conversion Hassles", you warbled: ] ] > If you're really that bothered, all the controlling stuff is in Machine ] > Code but the entire user interface (except the pretty (crap!) menu) is ] > in BASIC - SO WRITE YOUR OWN... :) ] ] I would do except when I try and list the program it crashs, ] so I gave up. Could just be my copy. Ulp! This might be Fred... or it could be my sad attempt at copy protection tracing (where every copy I sent out had a unique serial number, just in case I could be arsed to actually bother with it...). If it _is_ that, then do a disk search (using kedisk!!!) for the word `executing' and get rid of the crap there with spaces instead. ] I can't remember reading anything on EDOS, could somebody ] fill me in? Over to you, Si... Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 22 18:31:59 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: PC Conversion Hassles To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 18:27:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411221027.AA03236@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 22, 94 11:27:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 134 Lines: 7 > That reminds me... will we get an XCOPY command in the MultiROM? > > imc That may be part of the shell system, yup... Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 22 18:39:39 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: PC Conversion Hassles To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 18:34:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <2ED24EF2@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Nov 22, 94 12:06:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1024 Lines: 24 > > If you're really that bothered, all the controlling stuff is in Machine > > Code but the entire user interface (except the pretty (crap!) menu) is > > in BASIC - SO WRITE YOUR OWN... :) > > I would do except when I try and list the program it crashs, > so Igave up. Could just be my copy. I bodged Kedisk to give a new command -- MCPY, that would take the contents of the meg and dump it to a PC disk... Would that do you? (You'll need a meg I think, but it works on D3, so it might still do it). I use it to convert BMP files that I've made using my SAM-->BMP file converter. > I can't remember reading anything on EDOS, could somebody > fill me in? Okay, EDOS is basically a new expanded DOS for the SAM, which will include better support for megs, hard drive support, new commands, MSDOS compatibility and a new file structure giving 32 character file names, and allowing you (if and when) to use 1.44Mb drives... It'll also have disk cacheing, and a few other widgets in there... Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 22 20:41:50 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411222038.AA01093@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Infocom To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 21:38:38 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 18, 94 02:12:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 921 Lines: 27 > > Having got my 486 working again (tried to add a 210Mb hd to it last night, > and ended up spilling half a can of Heineken on the processor. It refreshed > parts I didn't want it to reach :( ), here's an interesting poser... > > Anybody willing to convert a program from C to machine code? > > It's an Infocom games parser... > > Otherwise, I'll do it while I'm waiting for Martin to build the new HD > board... The question is WHEN do you want it? I would only be glad if I could have something (not to important timewize) to do when I'm doing my paper for my BsC at CERN next semester..... > > Si > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | IRC@Luke | From imc Wed Nov 23 11:29:49 1994 Subject: Re: Infocom To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 11:29:49 GMT In-Reply-To: <199411222038.AA01093@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 22, 94 9:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 487 Lines: 13 On Tue, 22 Nov 1994 21:38:38 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > The question is WHEN do you want it? I would only be glad > if I could have something (not to important timewize) to do > when I'm doing my paper for my BsC at CERN next semester..... Do you mean to take your mind off the paper, or do you mean you are actually going to get (part of) a BSc by writing a Sam Coupe program?... If only... imc PS finished my Sun-audio-file player for the Sam yesterday. :-) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 23 12:43:13 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411231237.AA07859@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Infocom To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 13:37:44 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9411231129.AA05928@booth8.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 23, 94 12:29:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1195 Lines: 32 > > On Tue, 22 Nov 1994 21:38:38 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > > The question is WHEN do you want it? I would only be glad > > if I could have something (not to important timewize) to do > > when I'm doing my paper for my BsC at CERN next semester..... > > Do you mean to take your mind off the paper, or do you mean you are actually > going to get (part of) a BSc by writing a Sam Coupe program?... Hmm....I can see how this could be some confusing, yes. I was thinking of something to take my mind off my paper, yes. Can't be doing www-gateways all day either.....eh :) > If only... I was thinking of a hw-project for the SAM. Like the SAM-in-a-PC I have been babling about. Now, I haven't got the time, and later I haven't got the equipment. > > imc > > PS finished my Sun-audio-file player for the Sam yesterday. :-) Goody...when will we see....or rather hear it? -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | IRC@Luke | From imc Wed Nov 23 12:49:00 1994 Subject: Re: Infocom To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 12:49:00 GMT In-Reply-To: <199411231237.AA07859@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 23, 94 1:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 313 Lines: 11 On Wed, 23 Nov 1994 13:37:44 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > > PS finished my Sun-audio-file player for the Sam yesterday. :-) > Goody...when will we see....or rather hear it? Don't know. What's it worth? :-) BTW don't expect it to sound brilliant... it is only a 4-bit player after all. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 23 22:35:56 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Infocom To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 22:33:02 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9411231129.AA05928@booth8.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 23, 94 12:29:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 469 Lines: 13 > Do you mean to take your mind off the paper, or do you mean you are actually > going to get (part of) a BSc by writing a Sam Coupe program?... > > If only... I dunno... I mean, Simon Owen did it with his Turbomon Assembler/Disassembler, and I did it (for my GCSE and A Level) with my Disc Message creator and my MaxiDOS+ (v2.2) system... straight A's across the board for the work... It's not what you do it on, it's the structure and content :) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 24 16:31:35 1994 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9411241629.AA19861@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: ZX81 keyboard overlay thingy! To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (SAM users mailing list.) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 16:29:24 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 755 Lines: 23 I was flicking through a copy of 'Sinclair Programs' the other day (does everyone remember that?!) when I came across a keyboard overlay thingy that turned the ZX81 so called 'touch sensitive keyboard' into a raised rubber affair (oo-er!) like the 48K speccy. I would love to have one of these for my ZX81 - does anyone know where I might be able to get one? I posted a message on comp.sys.sinclair, but nobody replied (sniff) Any help would be appreciated - I might get it out of the cupboard again. You never know - I might be able to load my copy of the game with hi-res graphics :) Lord Blackadder Entropy Technology - The Ducks Nuts - The Donkeys Bollox - The Cheesy Foreskins - The Dingos Kidneys From imc Thu Nov 24 16:55:44 1994 Subject: Sample player To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Nov 94 16:55:44 GMT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1074 Lines: 28 Well, as a kind of taster, here is a copy of my Sam sample player, which plays samples in the common Sam format (2 4-bit samples per byte) at a rate of 7812Hz (with the screen on, obviously). And for a limited period, you can also obtain by WWW a gigantic 280K sample to go with it. :-) The code lives at 33000 and is 282 bytes long. Just go CALL 33000,start,length where "start" is the starting address of the sample in memory, and "length" is the number of samples it contains (that's twice the number of bytes, confusingly enough). imc begin 644 scsample M_@(H L\:S2$!YD H]^\E)Y$ )1T(R G8,\TA <7-(0'%S2$!YD HV>\E MX@C(X@G8,\TA <7-(0%I+=GAR_P6#]G!T7JS* $,V?,!_P$^%.UY!>U!!#X< M[7EX!>UY!#X8[7D%/H+M>00^ NUY!>U!V3XAT_K#DP'9?E\/#P\/JZ*K[7EZ M+U'#(F8 (? Date: 24 Nov 94 22:14:49 +0000 Subject: imc's sun.au player Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1163 Lines: 35 On (23 Nov 94) Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote ... Hi Ian! > NAA01830 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 1994 13:59:22 +0100 > Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 13:49:00 +0100 > From: Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk > > On Wed, 23 Nov 1994 13:37:44 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > > > PS finished my Sun-audio-file player for the Sam yesterday. :-) > > > Goody...when will we see....or rather hear it? > > Don't know. What's it worth? :-) > > BTW don't expect it to sound brilliant... it is only a 4-bit player > after all. > imc Have you got a centronics port on your sam? IF you have, a simple R2R potential divider network will give a reasonable 8bit DAC by simply outputing the 8bit sample data to the select LPT data I/O port:-) Provided you don't overload it by using too small resistor values you can still print with the sam LPT port as well, though printing will make some pretty random noise;-) jet  ... My computer has a loose nut on the keyboard. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From imc Fri Nov 25 11:12:15 1994 Subject: Re: imc's sun.au player To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 25 Nov 94 11:12:15 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Johnathan Taylor" at Nov 24, 94 10:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 433 Lines: 12 On 24 Nov 94 22:14:49 +0000, Johnathan Taylor said: > Have you got a centronics port on your sam? No, it's a bog-standard Coupe. > IF you have, a simple R2R > potential divider network will give a reasonable 8bit DAC by simply outputing > the 8bit sample data to the select LPT data I/O port:-) But if I did that then no one else would be able to use it, would they? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 25 14:52:24 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411251447.AA09742@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 15:47:50 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 729 Lines: 19 Hi! Does anyone know if there are keyboard membranes avaiable for the SAM? My last working keyboard broke down last evening, and I now have 3 useless keyboards laying at home and would like to get them working again. It's probably Bob who's selling them (if any), but if I start nagging him, I'll probably never get an answer before I retire or something. Oh! BTW: Which programs for the SAM do I buy if I have L100 to spend? -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 25 18:50:29 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 17:02:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199411251447.AA09742@ulke.hiMolde.no> from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 25, 94 03:47:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 706 Lines: 24 > Oh! BTW: Which programs for the SAM do I buy if I have L100 > to spend? Erm.. well.... Comet Assembler, TurboMon, ETracker SaAM Paint... I think that'd take you up to about 100 quid... but that's all you really really need to get programming. Other than that, who knows. Frode -- if you ain't got Comet, buy it yesterday!!! Si ps Why does BOB insist on people having a membership number and buying Format before he'll send out stuff like technical manuals????? I mean, the people are sending off cheques, but he won't send the goods because they dont' buy format or don't have an up to date sub... For that, the guy is a moron. Brian -- if you can explain, please do! Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 26 06:05:00 1994 Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 05:39:53 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5218@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: imc's sun.au player X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 133 Lines: 7 On the PC the Centronics port sound system is known as Disney Sound. Its a great bodge! :-) Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 26 06:05:17 1994 Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 05:42:09 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5219@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 215 Lines: 10 As far as I know, the keyboards come complete with membranes from Superbob. Its therefore no cheaper to ask for a membrane, as you have to destroy a keyboard to get one! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 26 10:20:41 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411261017.AA16674@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 11:17:23 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 25, 94 05:02:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 805 Lines: 28 > > > Oh! BTW: Which programs for the SAM do I buy if I have L100 > > to spend? > > Erm.. well.... > > Comet Assembler, > TurboMon, > ETracker > SaAM Paint... > I think that'd take you up to about 100 quid... but that's all you really > really need to get programming. Other than that, who knows. OK..thanks, but let me rephrase: Which progs. and games do I buy if I have L100? > > Frode -- if you ain't got Comet, buy it yesterday!!! Hmmm.....I'd like a z80 cross-assembler for unix.... -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Nov 26 10:23:09 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411261021.AA16695@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 11:21:16 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <5219@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 26, 94 05:42:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 860 Lines: 22 > > As far as I know, the keyboards come complete with membranes > from Superbob. > > Its therefore no cheaper to ask for a membrane, as you have to > destroy a keyboard to get one! That's sicko as it's the membranes that gets weared. Did they not learn anything from the spectrum? Well, I now got it working again by 1) Scrubbing of that green stuff on the top of the lead 2) Patch the broke point with aluminum-foil from a chewing-gum pack. 3) Applying pressure both from the top and the bottom of the patch 4) Manteling it all together again. Voila! -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 27 08:33:22 1994 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 26 Nov 94 04:42:08 +0000 Subject: imc's sun.au player Message-Id: <0fb_9411260724@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1672 Lines: 46 On (25 Nov 94) Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote to All... > MAA26011 for ; Fri, 25 Nov 1994 12:21:03 +0100 > Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 12:12:16 +0100 > From: Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk > On 24 Nov 94 22:14:49 +0000, Johnathan Taylor said: >> Have you got a centronics port on your sam? > No, it's a bog-standard Coupe. Shame, I hoped it'd have been one of those Sam-Elite things with built-in printer port... >> IF you have, a simple R2R >> potential divider network will give a reasonable 8bit DAC by simply >> outputing > > the 8bit sample data to the select LPT data I/O port:-) > But if I did that then no one else would be able to use it, would they? Not on the old unexpanded Sam but it would be usable on any Sam with a parallel port! I believe there's a Centronics port Dongle for the peecee that is one of these simple DACs:-) In theory it's possible to expand this idea to a proper interface that simultainously passes D0-D7 & A8-A15 to a 16bit latch and its output could feed a bigger R2R ladder to allow upto 16bit resolution! Data would be output by pre-loading B reg with the upper 8bits and A reg with lower 8bits and C with port location and executing out (c),a. Without too much time penalty too;-) Though I doubt we'd get full 16bit resolution due to digitally generated noise on the supply rails, but it'd certainly be better than an 8bit player! Regards Johnathan.  ... Gravity doesn`t exist: the earth sucks. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From imc Sun Nov 27 12:23:59 1994 Subject: Re: imc's sun.au player To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 27 Nov 94 12:23:59 GMT In-Reply-To: <0fb_9411260724@centron.com>; from "Johnathan Taylor" at Nov 26, 94 4:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 442 Lines: 10 On 26 Nov 94 04:42:08 +0000, Johnathan Taylor said: > Not on the old unexpanded Sam but it would be usable on any Sam with a > parallel port! I believe there's a Centronics port Dongle for the peecee that > is one of these simple DACs:-) No that's not the point; the point is that no one would be able to use it unless they were either to buy the PC dongle or to be confident enough to make the necessary resistor network. imc From imc Sun Nov 27 12:26:27 1994 Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 27 Nov 94 12:26:27 GMT In-Reply-To: <199411261017.AA16674@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 26, 94 11:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 268 Lines: 7 On Sat, 26 Nov 1994 11:17:23 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > Hmmm.....I'd like a z80 cross-assembler for unix.... I've heard that several exist. But in any case, writing one in C on Unix would be a lot easier than writing one in Z80 on the Sam. :-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 27 12:40:18 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: RE: Sample player Date: Fri, 25 Nov 94 11:07:00 PST Message-Id: <2ED8EDAA@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 10 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 304 Lines: 10 > And for a limited period, you can also obtain by WWW a "http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/oucl/users/ian.collier/Misc/QLtheme.bin" > >gigantic 280K sample to go with it. :-) Could you whack it on nvg.unit.no for us people who don't have WWW Access? Or mail it to us. Dan Doore. From imc Sun Nov 27 12:54:01 1994 Subject: RE: Sample player To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 27 Nov 94 12:54:01 GMT In-Reply-To: <2ED8EDAA@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Nov 25, 94 11:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 396 Lines: 10 On Fri, 25 Nov 94 11:07:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > Could you whack it on nvg.unit.no for us people who don't have WWW Access? Well OK, it is now /pub/sam-coupe/incoming/QLtheme. As it hasn't actually got that much to do with Sam Coupe, I don't expect Frode (or whoever maintains the Sam archive) to keep it very long... imc PS you really should get WWW access you know... From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 27 13:40:03 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411271338.AA24813@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Sample player To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 14:38:20 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9411271254.AA05079@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 27, 94 01:54:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 944 Lines: 24 > > On Fri, 25 Nov 94 11:07:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > > Could you whack it on nvg.unit.no for us people who don't have WWW Access? > > Well OK, it is now /pub/sam-coupe/incoming/QLtheme. As it hasn't actually > got that much to do with Sam Coupe, I don't expect Frode (or whoever > maintains the Sam archive) to keep it very long... Done! It'll probably be there as long as space permits (which would probably be for some time considering your rate of uploads :) ): /pub/sam-coupe/music/samples/QLtheme > imc > > PS you really should get WWW access you know... Yeah! lynx is a nice vt100-alternative if you have not got X. -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 27 18:55:12 1994 Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 18:40:38 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5241@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 343 Lines: 12 You want me to get you a keyboard then? I cannot see why Bob worries about Subs, he could easily have two prices for things, so norty non subs pay a bit more. Sounds like Mother hen mode again! I owe Bob 180 quid that I am holding to Pay my friend who is doing work for Bob. Complex life I lead! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 27 18:55:12 1994 Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 18:45:28 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5242@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 233 Lines: 10 Hmm, I was going to suggest conductive paint... Regardung learning from older machines. No Amstrad did exactly the same, no membranes, only keyboards... Its the way the supplier liked it. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 27 18:55:29 1994 Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 18:47:53 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5243@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: imc's sun.au player X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 277 Lines: 9 Jonathan, I have not forgotten the file you sent, I am drowning under over 20 Z80 updates a day down here, but I feel sure this will slow soon, I just hope I can remember the filenasme then! Did you see my comment about Disney sound? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 27 19:20:34 1994 Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 19:10:46 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5250@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: Sample player X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 383 Lines: 14 WWW is fine if you get your comms FREE! WWW is a money burner for us modem users. Totally useless unless you are lucky enough to be with a free calls type phone company! Not to mention the pain it is to use if you are visually impaired like me... Rant mode off. So, would a resistive DAC on the printer port be a nice cheapo add on? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Nov 28 07:26:05 1994 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 28 Nov 94 02:20:26 +0000 Subject: Keyboard membranes Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1552 Lines: 46 On (26 Nov 94) Frode.Tennebo@himolde.no wrote... > From: Frode Tennebo > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 11:17:23 +0100 (MET) > Nov 25, 94 05:02:57 pm >>> Oh! BTW: Which programs for the SAM do I buy if I have L100 >>> to spend? >> Erm.. well.... >> Comet Assembler, >> TurboMon, >> ETracker >> SaAM Paint... >> I think that'd take you up to about 100 quid... but that's all you really >> really need to get programming. Other than that, who knows. > OK..thanks, but let me rephrase: Which progs. and games do I buy if > I have L100? Most cost-effective buy would be ProDos as it then opens up a whole new world of CP/M PD and shareware programs and utilities:) The only thing it lacks is builtin Sound & Graphics support but in most cases they're just unnecesary frills;-) >> Frode -- if you ain't got Comet, buy it yesterday!!! > Hmmm.....I'd like a z80 cross-assembler for unix.... For a simple cross-assembler in C try uasm it's PD and can be setup for most 8bit cpu instruction sets. The version I've seen was written for MS-DOS C but I'm sure it would convert to *nix C easily enough:-) Or under ProDos you can user one of the many excelent PD assemblers to assemble text source prepared under your favorite *nix editor:-) Regards Johnathan.  ... That's the phone BILL!?! I thought it was my phone NUMBER! -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Nov 28 09:26:00 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: Re: Sample player Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 09:20:00 PST Message-Id: <2EDA1154@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 15 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 380 Lines: 15 > PS you really should get WWW access you know... Don't rub it in. It's OK for all you people who have it but when you have only got a single 64Kbit link for 2000 mail users and about 5 Web Users (Yep, only five) AND a paranoid principle - the chances of getting it are nearly zero. I'd *KILL* for full Internet access or FTP, never mind WWW access! Dan. From imc Mon Nov 28 11:07:02 1994 Subject: Re: Sample player To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 11:07:02 GMT In-Reply-To: <2EDA1154@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Nov 28, 94 9:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1002 Lines: 28 On Mon, 28 Nov 94 09:20:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > It's OK for all you people who have it but when you have only got a single > 64Kbit > link for 2000 mail users and about 5 Web Users (Yep, only five) AND a > paranoid > principle - the chances of getting it are nearly zero. Should have gone to a different university. :-) > I'd *KILL* for full Internet access or FTP, never mind WWW access! I thought you said you could get the file if I put it on FTP... Anyway, if I say you can get a file on WWW, it's actually no more expensive than getting the same file on FTP (especially since people seem to have a certain amount of trouble connecting to ftp.nvg.unit.no whereas www.comlab.ox.ac.uk should be no problem). If the file had been uuencoded you could have said telnet www.comlab.ox.ac.uk 80 > the_file GET /oucl/users/ian.collier/whatever_file and that would have been that... I also seem to remember that there's a WWW-by-mail server somewhere. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Nov 28 11:36:10 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: WWW Wranglings... Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 11:31:00 PST Message-Id: <2EDA2FAC@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 22 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 688 Lines: 22 imc did warble on this forum: > Should have gone to a different university. :-) I *WORK* here (i.e. JOB), I don't *GO* here. > > I'd *KILL* for full Internet access or FTP, never mind WWW access! > > I thought you said you could get the file if I put it on FTP... I can't. But my a bloke in the office can so I'll thieve it off him. > I also seem to remember that there's a WWW-by-mail server somewhere. It's bad enough doing FTP by mail, never mind the WWW, and if it is anything like FTP by mail then it will be s-l-o-w. Apparently there is a text version of Mosaic (the most common WWW Browser) floating about somewhere, but I have yet to see it. Dan. From imc Mon Nov 28 11:41:24 1994 Subject: Re: WWW Wranglings... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 11:41:24 GMT In-Reply-To: <2EDA2FAC@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Nov 28, 94 11:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 710 Lines: 22 On Mon, 28 Nov 94 11:31:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > imc did warble on this forum: > > Should have gone to a different university. :-) > I *WORK* here (i.e. JOB), I don't *GO* here. So you work from home then?... I meant "go" as in either "attend" or "apply for a job at", depending on your circumstances. > Apparently there is a text version of Mosaic (the most common WWW > Browser) floating about somewhere, but I have yet to see it. It's called "lynx". But I suppose you don't have archie access either... You could always join the BBC Networking Club. :-) (they are slightly more expensive than Demon, but claim to have a faster and more robust Internet link). imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Nov 28 12:14:29 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411281210.AA03715@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 13:10:42 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <5242@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 27, 94 06:45:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 694 Lines: 24 > > Hmm, I was going to suggest conductive paint... Yeah, that would have been perfect, but I have never seen that here in Norway. > > Regardung learning from older machines. No Amstrad did exactly > the same, no membranes, only keyboards... Its the way the > supplier liked it. Yeah, but you have to have membranes to repair the damn thing - and now it's broken again :( > > Brian -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Nov 28 12:20:35 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411281218.AA03929@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: WWW Wranglings... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 13:18:06 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <2EDA2FAC@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Nov 28, 94 11:31:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 522 Lines: 17 > Apparently there is a text version of Mosaic (the most common WWW > Browser) floating about somewhere, but I have yet to see it. It's called lynx - available from your favourite ftp (*grin*) source archive. > > Dan. > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Nov 28 13:50:36 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411281346.AA05362@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 14:46:52 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <5241@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Nov 27, 94 06:40:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 719 Lines: 21 > > You want me to get you a keyboard then? I cannot see why Bob > worries about Subs, he could easily have two prices for things, > so norty non subs pay a bit more. Sounds like Mother hen mode > again! No thanks. I have faxed Bob and asked him if he can supply me with some membranes. I don't need brand new keyboards. I have one already that has not been used where it came damaged from Bob........ > Brian > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Nov 28 16:59:58 1994 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 16:55:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199411281346.AA05362@ulke.hiMolde.no> from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 28, 94 02:46:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 474 Lines: 13 > > You want me to get you a keyboard then? I cannot see why Bob > > worries about Subs, he could easily have two prices for things, > > so norty non subs pay a bit more. Sounds like Mother hen mode > > again! *grins* dunno what's been going on -- mail feed's been down -- but sounds like fun ;) ANyone got any idea why my cursor keys periodically die on me? Checked the membrane, connectors and the mouse socket -- but it keeps on falling over on me :( Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 11:22:18 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 10:37:55 +0000 In-Reply-To: Frode.Tennebo -- "Re: Keyboard membranes" (Nov 28, 1:10pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 589 Lines: 19 On Nov 28, 1:10pm in "Re: Keyboard membranes", Frode warbled: ] > Hmm, I was going to suggest conductive paint... ] ] Yeah, that would have been perfect, but I have never seen ] that here in Norway. Any electronics store should have it. Maplins certainly do, I _think_ Tandy (Radio Shack, for the non-english out there :) do aswell... ] Yeah, but you have to have membranes to repair the ] damn thing - and now it's broken again :( Tell me about it... I've finally got mine working, but the sound chip is still crackly. At least I have my A310 now... :) Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 11:28:38 1994 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 11:24:40 +0100 Message-Id: <94112911244023@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sample player X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 146 Lines: 8 > >So, would a resistive DAC on the printer port be a nice cheapo >add on? > >Brian > If it's any good, and it get supported - why not? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 11:56:02 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: Sam Users Subject: Re: Sample player Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 11:49:00 PST Message-Id: <2EDB859F@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 15 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 461 Lines: 15 I once got a disc of 8-bit samples with a player that played either in 4-bit resolution to the sound chip or 8 bit via the parallel port to a DAC device. The bloke who wrote it had already built one of these gizmos, some Australian fellow as I recall. Tragically, there were no assembly instructions on the DAC gizmo, but I presume it would be the same as what has been described previously. If anybody wants a copy they are welcome. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 13:13:20 1994 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 12:38:17 +0100 Message-Id: <94112912381694@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Any more news about the 'C' compiler X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 76 Lines: 4 Whats happened to the C compiler - is it still in the making Lord B' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 14:00:11 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411291356.AA18962@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 14:56:27 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 28, 94 04:55:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1039 Lines: 30 > > > > You want me to get you a keyboard then? I cannot see why Bob > > > worries about Subs, he could easily have two prices for things, > > > so norty non subs pay a bit more. Sounds like Mother hen mode > > > again! > > *grins* dunno what's been going on -- mail feed's been down -- but sounds > like fun ;) > > ANyone got any idea why my cursor keys periodically die on me? Checked the > membrane, connectors and the mouse socket -- but it keeps on falling over on > me :( Checked the pull-up resistors? Can't remember the exact layout, but I suspect that all the cursor keys do not connect to the same pin either way?! There goes that theory. What about the keyboard itself? Does it push on the membrane? > > Si > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 14:03:18 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411291359.AA19055@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 14:59:48 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Mars Bar" at Nov 29, 94 10:37:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 821 Lines: 25 > > On Nov 28, 1:10pm in "Re: Keyboard membranes", Frode warbled: > ] > Hmm, I was going to suggest conductive paint... > ] > ] Yeah, that would have been perfect, but I have never seen > ] that here in Norway. > > Any electronics store should have it. Maplins certainly do, I _think_ > Tandy (Radio Shack, for the non-english out there :) do aswell... There are no shops like that here in Norway. Only post-order firms. And I have not seen anything like conductive paint in their catalogues :( > Geoff > > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From imc Tue Nov 29 14:06:46 1994 Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 14:06:46 GMT In-Reply-To: <199411291359.AA19055@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 29, 94 2:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 376 Lines: 10 On Tue, 29 Nov 1994 14:59:48 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > There are no shops like that here in Norway. Only post-order > firms. And I have not seen anything like conductive paint in their > catalogues :( Maplins do international mail order, although for just one item it will be rather expensive (especially as you just voted not to join the EU :-) ). imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 14:51:04 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411291447.AA20116@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 15:47:26 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9411291406.AA21035@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 29, 94 03:06:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 768 Lines: 22 > > On Tue, 29 Nov 1994 14:59:48 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > > > There are no shops like that here in Norway. Only post-order > > firms. And I have not seen anything like conductive paint in their > > catalogues :( > > Maplins do international mail order, although for just one item it will > be rather expensive (especially as you just voted not to join the EU :-) ). Ah! So you noticed? Well, going downhill from now.... It was only 52.5-47.5 > imc > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 15:25:11 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411291454.AA20251@ulke.hiMolde.no> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 15:54:11 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 563 Lines: 14 Check out http://www.himolde.no/~frodet/md.txt This contains a full (?) listing of the hook codes for masterdos, but does anybody have a description of the 'new' UIFA and how directories are implemented. And perhaps sombody want's this for an 'offisial' SAM web-page? -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 15:40:37 1994 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 15:33:38 +0100 Message-Id: <94112915333851@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 443 Lines: 15 > >> There are no shops like that here in Norway. Only post-order >> firms. And I have not seen anything like conductive paint in their >> catalogues :( > >Maplins do international mail order, although for just one item it will >be rather expensive (especially as you just voted not to join the EU :-) ). Obviously a government with a bit of sense :) > >imc Lord Blackadder The neo-Marxist/Leninist/Trotskyist of Entropy :) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 15:43:59 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411291540.AA20903@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 16:40:06 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <94112915333851@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> from "AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE" at Nov 29, 94 03:33:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 830 Lines: 24 > > > > >> There are no shops like that here in Norway. Only post-order > >> firms. And I have not seen anything like conductive paint in their > >> catalogues :( > > > >Maplins do international mail order, although for just one item it will > >be rather expensive (especially as you just voted not to join the EU :-) ). > > Obviously a government with a bit of sense :) It wasn't the government that woted.... > Lord Blackadder > The neo-Marxist/Leninist/Trotskyist of Entropy :) Did you forget Mao/Bresjenev/Castro? :) -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 15:58:26 1994 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 15:46:54 +0100 Message-Id: <94112915465461@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1260 Lines: 36 >> >> > >> >Maplins do international mail order, although for just one item it will >> >be rather expensive (especially as you just voted not to join the EU :-) ). >> >> Obviously a government with a bit of sense :) > >It wasn't the government that woted.... > Yes, but at least they gave you the choice. We just have a government that sells off all public industry (all natural monopolies), creates poverty in the lower classes (of our, supposedly classless society), passes a bill like the CJB, which means we have now effectively become a police state, gives no help to the homeless, wasted all of our money created from the North Sea oil, invests in no form of manufacturing industry so that our trade gap keeps widening, etc... The list keeps goin - but I shall shut up now. Sorry, I am a bit tense, both my COBOLox and C assignment are getting me down :( >>> Lord Blackadder >>> The neo-Marxist/Leninist/Trotskyist of Entropy :) >> >Did you forget Mao/Bresjenev/Castro? :) No - Marxism is not communism. It is a theory that was based on Britain in the early 1900 at the time of the industrial revolution. It was not designed to bring about a totalatarian state government. Lord Blackadder The very tense... From imc Tue Nov 29 16:02:51 1994 Subject: Re: your mail To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 16:02:51 GMT In-Reply-To: <94112915465461@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk>; from "AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE" at Nov 29, 94 3:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 283 Lines: 7 On Tue, 29 Nov 1994 15:46:54 +0100, AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE said: > CJB, which means we have now effectively become a police state Typical socialist bollocks. You want to try living in a police state some time, then you might know what it's like. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 16:24:07 1994 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 16:08:34 +0100 Message-Id: <94112916083421@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Socialist Bollox X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1407 Lines: 43 >On Tue, 29 Nov 1994 15:46:54 +0100, AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE said: >> CJB, which means we have now effectively become a police state > >Typical socialist bollocks. You want to try living in a police state some >time, then you might know what it's like. > if we don't protest about things like the CJB how can we stop Britain from turning into a police state ? if we don't even have the right to protest (against grant cuts, fox hunting, government spending on the trident missile, phasing out of the welfare state, privatisation of the NHS, etc.) what differentiates us from a police state ?? suppression of the freedom of speech kills off the creative element in society and is inherently destructive. 1984 is on it's way, comrade !! Moonchild xx All comments above are that of my friend Moonchild and totally reflect my point of view. She just wanted a bit of a rave (whoops - that's no longer allowed. Quick hide - it's the police!! Shit - there's more that 100 people in my Uni and there is a series of repetative beats coming from the terminal keyboards - shit!!! More police! Bollox - lets face it, under the CJB, I can no longer listen to Bach in my back garden with a group of friends (no *fucking* joke) Now tell me the CJB has nothing to do with a police state. The police can do anything they want. Lord B' >imc From imc Tue Nov 29 16:31:20 1994 Subject: Re: Socialist Bollox To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 16:31:20 GMT In-Reply-To: <94112916083421@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk>; from "AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE" at Nov 29, 94 4:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 475 Lines: 11 On Tue, 29 Nov 1994 16:08:34 +0100, a person whose name is TOO LONG (PLEASE SHORTEN IT!) said: > Bollox - lets face it, under the CJB, I can no longer listen to Bach in my back > garden with a group of friends (no *fucking* joke) Now tell me the CJB has > nothing to do with a police state. The police can do anything they want. It's called the CJA now, not the CJB. Much as I hate to defend the tories, the above is a gross exaggeration and you know it. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 17:04:10 1994 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 16:50:18 +0100 Message-Id: <94112916501842@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffordshire.ac.uk (AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Vms-To: SAM Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1190 Lines: 28 >On Tue, 29 Nov 1994 16:08:34 +0100, a person whose name is TOO LONG (PLEASE >SHORTEN IT!) said: Lord B' is fine by me. It's the mailer proggies fault for giving me so much space. Humour is, as humour does ??? >> Bollox - lets face it, under the CJB, I can no longer listen to Bach in my back >> garden with a group of friends (no *fucking* joke) Now tell me the CJB has >> nothing to do with a police state. The police can do anything they want. > >It's called the CJA now, not the CJB. Much as I hate to defend the tories, >the above is a gross exaggeration and you know it. I think you will find that by definition under the CJB(A) "a group of more than 100 people in a tempory building playing music with a repetative beat. A garden party(albeit a poncy occasion) in a marque playing bach is in fact breaking the law. It is totally up to the police who to prosecute. Given a choice between an organised classical concert, and a group of ravers in a circus tent - which do you think the police will prosecute. No matter how much I hate rave music - I don't begrudge anyone the right to have a good time, and express themselves. >imc Lord Blackadder From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 17:14:26 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411291711.AA22450@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: your mail To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 18:11:08 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <94112916501842@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> from "AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE" at Nov 29, 94 04:50:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 872 Lines: 26 > Lord B' is fine by me. It's the mailer proggies fault for giving me so much space. > Humour is, as humour does ??? And your lines are to long.....*nag* > >It's called the CJA now, not the CJB. Much as I hate to defend the tories, > >the above is a gross exaggeration and you know it. > > I think you will find that by definition under the CJB(A) "a group of more than > 100 people in a tempory building playing music with a repetative beat. So 99 people are less harmful than 100? What is this CJC anyway? Not that I care... :) > >imc > > Lord Blackadder -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From imc Tue Nov 29 17:21:18 1994 Subject: Re: your mail To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 17:21:18 GMT In-Reply-To: <94112916501842@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk>; from "AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE" at Nov 29, 94 4:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 2365 Lines: 44 On Tue, 29 Nov 1994 16:50:18 +0100, AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE said: > Lord B' is fine by me. It's the mailer proggies fault for giving me so much space. > Humour is, as humour does ??? It doesn't look like humour to me, just some prat buggering about with the name field on his mailer. Sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious, but that's for your name, not for an essay or just a random piece of "humour". There is also no reason for it to be all in capitals. > >> Bollox - lets face it, under the CJB, I can no longer listen to Bach in my back > >> garden with a group of friends (no *fucking* joke) Now tell me the CJB has > >> nothing to do with a police state. The police can do anything they want. > I think you will find that by definition under the CJB(A) "a group of more than > 100 people in a tempory building playing music with a repetative beat. A quotation mark and the rest of the sentence is missing. If indeed you do have 100 friends and a garden large enough to contain them, then I think that "listen to Bach in my garden with a group of friends" is a rather simplistic description for the resulting party. > A garden party(albeit a poncy occasion) in a marque playing bach is in fact breaking > the law. It is totally up to the police who to prosecute. Given a choice between > an organised classical concert, and a group of ravers in a circus tent - which do you > think the police will prosecute. > No matter how much I hate rave music - I don't begrudge anyone the right to have a > good time, and express themselves. 1. You have just argued against yourself. On the one hand you claim that listening to Bach is illegal, and on the other you say that the police won't arrest you anyway because they are too busy with the rave next door. 2. I think you will find that most Bach does not have a "repetitive beat" within the description of the CJA. A piece of music requires drums in order to fulfill that. 3. If 100 people turned up to the house next door and had a rave, I'd be pretty annoyed (it's irritating enough when 10 of them do it), so why shouldn't I have the right to stop them? 4. Rave (and any other kind of) parties are *not* illegal. The CJA simply insists that they be properly licenced. What's wrong with that? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 17:28:00 1994 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Fight De Powa!! Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 18:23:30 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9411291823.aa04241@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1207 Lines: 30 >>>>be rather expensive (especially as you just voted not to join the EU :-) >>> >>> Obviously a government with a bit of sense :) >> >>It wasn't the government that woted.... >> > >Yes, but at least they gave you the choice. We just have a government >that sells off all public industry (all natural monopolies), creates >poverty in the lower classes (of our, supposedly classless society), >passes a bill like the CJB, which means we have now effectively >become a police state, gives no help to the homeless, wasted all >of our money created from the North Sea oil, invests in no form of >manufacturing industry so that our trade gap keeps widening, etc... I can understand your point of view especcially if I think about our fu%king governement ... can you imagine a head of governement, owner of three nationwide TVs, half the cinemas of Italy, a major supermarket chain, several magazines and newspapers and much more, governing together with the neo-fascist party and a north-italian separatist party... He doesn't need a police state, he already has nearly complete control over public opinion... THE ONLY POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCE: FIGHT DE POWA !!!!!! Bye, ADR From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 17:39:38 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411291735.AA22721@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: This is not a political fora. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 18:35:55 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 396 Lines: 11 The heading says it all. Err...my prev. posting on this subject was purely for interest. What _is_ CJA? -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From imc Tue Nov 29 17:45:59 1994 Subject: Re: This is not a political fora. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 17:45:59 GMT In-Reply-To: <199411291735.AA22721@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Nov 29, 94 6:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 144 Lines: 6 On Tue, 29 Nov 1994 18:35:55 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > What _is_ CJA? The Criminal Justice Act (which used to be a Bill). imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 18:47:16 1994 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 18:30:38 +0100 Message-Id: <94112918303811@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (AND I SHALL BE CALLED... THE BLACK VEGETABLE) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: CJB X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 558 Lines: 21 I did send a mail message explaining what the CJB was, but it appears to have been lost. Anyway - to save me typing it out again. there is a WWW server set up which explains everything wrong with the CJB. It's http://www.bath.ac/~bs2ajs/Lib.New.html Oh yes and to answer imc The point about the rave and the concert. I meant that it was totally up to the polices discretion as to whether or not to prosecute. Also - bach was the first thing that came into my head. The 1812 overture has a repeative drumbeat. Lord Blackadder. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 20:00:57 1994 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 19:38:00 +0000 In-Reply-To: Frode.Tennebo -- "Re: Keyboard membranes" (Nov 29, 2:59pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 650 Lines: 20 On Nov 29, 2:59pm in "Re: Keyboard membranes", you warbled: ] > ] > On Nov 28, 1:10pm in "Re: Keyboard membranes", Frode warbled: ] > ] > Hmm, I was going to suggest conductive paint... ] > ] ] > ] Yeah, that would have been perfect, but I have never seen ] > ] that here in Norway. ] > ] > Any electronics store should have it. Maplins certainly do, I _think_ ] > Tandy (Radio Shack, for the non-english out there :) do aswell... ] ] There are no shops like that here in Norway. Only post-order ] firms. And I have not seen anything like conductive paint in their ] catalogues :( ] Look for `Silver Paint' then. Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 29 20:04:02 1994 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199411292001.AA24516@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 21:01:18 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Mars Bar" at Nov 29, 94 07:38:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 548 Lines: 18 > ] There are no shops like that here in Norway. Only post-order > ] firms. And I have not seen anything like conductive paint in their > ] catalogues :( > ] > > Look for `Silver Paint' then. Hmmm...perhaps in a jewelry store then? :) > > Geoff -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 30 00:30:21 1994 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sampler Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 1:28:11 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9411300128.aa23285@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1446 Lines: 33 Hello Daniel, > From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" > Subject: Re: Sample player > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 11:49:00 PST > > I once got a disc of 8-bit samples with a player that played either in > 4-bit resolution to the sound chip or 8 bit via the parallel port to a > DAC device. > The bloke who wrote it had already built one of these gizmos, > some Australian fellow as I recall. > Tragically, there were no assembly instructions on the DAC gizmo, but > I presume it would be the same as what has been described previously. > If anybody wants a copy they are welcome. Sounds quite interesting. I have a parallel port DAC converter for the PC laying around so if you could upload a Teledisk image of the SAM disk with the samples and the player to nvg.unit.no I would appreciate it very much. BTW I have a scheme of a DAC converter for the parallel port as a text file somewhere, it is relatively easy to build, if you want it I can post it here. Bye, Arne +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it (changes after 14/1/95) | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | |=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| | Computer Science student at "La Sapienza" University, Rome, Italy | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 30 04:08:54 1994 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users-owner Subject: Re: WWW Wranglings... Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 12:04:00 PST Message-Id: <2EDA37AE@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 26 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 976 Lines: 27 > > Apparently there is a text version of Mosaic (the most common WWW > > Browser) floating about somewhere, but I have yet to see it. > > It's called "lynx". But I suppose you don't have archie access either... How many more times? I have f*ck all access to anything good. I once had a bash with Veronica and that was most helpful, except half the stuff it found we couldn't retrieve (for one reason of another). > You could always join the BBC Networking Club. :-) (they are slightly > more expensive than Demon, but claim to have a faster and more robust > Internet link). Not my choice I'm afraid. We are getting a proper link to the nearest Internet node soon-ish cos at the moment we are scrounging of Leeds University, and as soon as this is up then we should be allowed more access to external services. Until then it's good 'ol Email and sod all else. As you can tell, the lack of access pisses me off something rotten. Dan. From imc Wed Nov 30 11:41:43 1994 Subject: Re: WWW Wranglings... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 11:41:43 GMT In-Reply-To: <2EDA37AE@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Nov 28, 94 12:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 426 Lines: 11 On Mon, 28 Nov 94 12:04:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > > You could always join the BBC Networking Club. :-) (they are slightly > > more expensive than Demon, but claim to have a faster and more robust > > Internet link). > Not my choice I'm afraid. Huh? I'm talking about you personally, not the university. All it means is that you just have to pay for your access (\pounds 12 per month plus VAT). imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 30 15:07:49 1994 From: P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 15:36:04 +0100 X400-Originator: P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9742.9411301436@mother.cs.bham.] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: your mail Message-Id: <9742.9411301436@mother.cs.bham.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: your mail Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 609 Lines: 18 > Typical socialist bollocks. Keep your tory wank to yourself, this is a SAM list remember? Paul. **** ****** ***** ****** ****** --------------------- * * * * * * * * * * | paf@cs.bham.ac.uk | * * * * * * * **** * **** --------------------- * * * * ***** * ***** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **** ***** ***** ***** ***** PUT YOUR FAITH IN A LOUD GUITAR From imc Wed Nov 30 15:52:53 1994 Subject: Re: your mail To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 15:52:53 GMT In-Reply-To: <9742.9411301436@mother.cs.bham.ac.uk>; from "P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk" at Nov 30, 94 3:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 439 Lines: 10 On Wed, 30 Nov 1994 15:36:04 +0100, P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk said: > Keep your tory wank to yourself, this is a SAM list remember? In case you hadn't noticed, I had already ceased posting articles on the topic some time ago. Besides, I didn't start it. If you are into flames, I suggest that next time you send a 2-line message, you do not add an 11-line signature and 4 blank lines to the bottom. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 30 16:53:06 1994 From: P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 17:38:10 +0100 X400-Originator: P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<15034.9411301638@mother.cs.bham] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: your mail Message-Id: <15034.9411301638@mother.cs.bham.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: your mail Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1239 Lines: 29 On Wed, 30 Nov 1994 15:36:04 +0100, P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk said: >> Keep your tory wank to yourself, this is a SAM list remember? >In case you hadn't noticed, I had already ceased posting articles on the >topic some time ago. Besides, I didn't start it. >If you are into flames, I suggest that next time you send a 2-line message, >you do not add an 11-line signature and 4 blank lines to the bottom. >imc It wasn't a flame, I was just trying to remind you that this list is supposed to be about the SAM, not poiltics. About the sig :- I am a huge KISS fan and I don't give a shit if you don't like my siggy, as the KISS tribute album says: KISS MY ASS!!! **** ****** ***** ****** ****** --------------------- * * * * * * * * * * | paf@cs.bham.ac.uk | * * * * * * * **** * **** --------------------- * * * * ***** * ***** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **** ***** ***** ***** ***** PUT YOUR FAITH IN A LOUD GUITAR From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 30 21:51:35 1994 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 21:21:01 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5323@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WWW Wranglings... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 120 Lines: 7 Shot up about WWW its for non modem users. Probably little to do with SAM either. BG -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 30 21:51:35 1994 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 21:40:41 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5326@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Socialist Bollox X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 66 Lines: 5 So keep it off here PLEASE! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 30 21:51:54 1994 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 21:24:59 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5325@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 725 Lines: 22 In message Simon Cooke writes: > > > You want me to get you a keyboard then? I cannot see why Bob > > > worries about Subs, he could easily have two prices for things, > > > so norty non subs pay a bit more. Sounds like Mother hen mode > > > again! > > *grins* dunno what's been going on -- mail feed's been down -- but sounds > like fun ;) > > ANyone got any idea why my cursor keys periodically die on me? Checked the > membrane, connectors and the mouse socket -- but it keeps on falling over on > me :( > > Si > > Do you have a joystick plugged in? I had a weird machine where certain keys stopped if it was plugged in once. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 30 21:51:55 1994 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 21:23:11 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <5324@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Keyboard membranes X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 112 Lines: 7 No you just throw in a new keyboard and throw away the old one.... :-) Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Dec 1 00:14:45 1994 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 29 Nov 94 21:53:00 +0000 Subject: Sample player Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1376 Lines: 38 On (27 Nov 94) Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk wrote to All... > Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 19:10:46 GMT > From: "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." > So, would a resistive DAC on the printer port be a nice cheapo > add on? There's no reason why not, if the approprite sample players were written for it:) After all, COMMS interface users of the sam-elite would have a spare LPT port sitting around wasting chips;-) I reckon the 16bit DAC should be done as a seperate interface but that's yet another box to be added on the end... The 8bit dongle is probably the most sensible comprimise:-) I believe that the conventional SAM 4bit sample replay method involves quite a bit of overheads that the 8bit dongle method doesn't so the replayed sample rate would be better as well! I've yet to uudecode imc's sample player and disasemble it to see if it can be easily adapted to a real DAC port;-) Also recently in the FidoNet BOFFINS echo was a msg describing the .WAV sample file format I've frozen it so IF anyone want's to experiment with that format I can post a copy in here:-) Regards Johnathan  ... General Failure: (A)bort (R)etry (I)nfluence with large hammer -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Dec 1 00:14:46 1994 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 29 Nov 94 22:13:51 +0000 Subject: imc's sun.au player Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1609 Lines: 39 On (27 Nov 94) Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk wrote to All... > Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 18:47:53 GMT > From: "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." > Jonathan, I have not forgotten the file you sent, I am drowning > under over 20 Z80 updates a day down here, but I feel sure this > will slow soon, I just hope I can remember the filenasme then! I can't for the life of me remember which file you refer to! So if you can rember NOW you're doing better than me;-) > Did you see my comment about Disney sound? Yep, I don't know the system myself so I didn't comment:-) I was first introduced to the idea by a CP/M 8bit sample player via the LPT port, still got it somwhere on a floppy... Simple idea, like all the best ones:-) I'm busy with the recent re-emergance of the Generic z80<>IDE HD device from Tilmann Reh... Me thinks his NEW design/product should be considered as a possible addon PCB to Si's MultiROM PCB rather than him building the interface into the MultiROM itself! MultiROM could just have socket that the IDE pcb could be plugged into at a later date or before shipping of it:-) German component prices are MUCH lower than the UK prices! So much so that I'm considering getting a few German component catalogues and have a go at taking advantage of this new open European market-place! Regards Johnathan.  ... Docs? Why would I want to look at the Docs. Nurses are better :-) -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.