From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 22 08:42:38 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 22 Jan 95 04:56:35 +0000 Subject: West Coast Demise Message-Id: <1e6_9501220831@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2614 Lines: 65 On (21 Jan 95) Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk wrote... > Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 11:48:49 GMT > From: "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." > I have no wish to suggest Bob will not honour orders, here are > my thoughts, so you know what I meant, sorry if I gave a > misleading impression. > Sam stock etc are in WAles, Bob is not. Nobody is in WAles but > rental of unit needs to be paid. > Bob will need to get someone to put SAMs together. I could be bribed into it but I think a move to Wales would not be finacialy worth while (for me;-) Plus from what I've heard Bob wouldn't make a good employer... > Uf it were me, I think I'd do this. Remember this is a business > thought, not a Bob one! :-) > How many SAMs could we possibly sell? Maybe 1000 if pushed (I > think a lot less, but I am being generous) Look at Stock. Take > enough parts for what I could sell, plus some for Spares of > things like keyboards and ASICs, cases etc. Attempt to sell rest > of stock to get money to finance building some SAMs. Assuming he's got ALL the parts required and just needs to pay SOMEONE to put 'em together, then if I were him I'd LEARN to solder and build 'em myself! It ain't that difficult;-) > Move stock to somewhere I can afford (Bobs place?) Tricle along > as before. > Now if SAM2 ever gets off the ground, it would need finance. I > pass on this! What the heck is this SAM2? If there was to be a new version I'd hope it didn't pass ALL ram access via the ASIC as that's the thing that limits the SAM to 6MHz! Maybe a z180 with the ASIC ram mapped to the bottom 64k of z180 address space and the rest of the address space as independant z180 RAM. On power-up it'd default to SAM mode and only access normal SAM ram via the ASIC, but it could also change and map the other ram in place of the ASIC's RAM.... Or one could go the whole hog and use a z280 and implement a full unix as an alternate to the power-up SAM mode ;-) Though do we really need it? I don't think so, there's plenty of other machines available that'll provide more advanced features and power... And I don't mean IBM clones! eg the many z180 SBC's some upto 20MHz or Tilmann Reh's CPU280! I feel that the original SAM's capabilities should be fully exploited before any real effort is made on an all-new machine:-) Regards Johnathan. ... If you find yourself in a hole: quit digging. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 22 08:42:39 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 22 Jan 95 05:41:53 +0000 Subject: Where's everyone gone? Message-Id: <1e7_9501220831@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2093 Lines: 53 On (20 Jan 95) Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac. wrote... > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 12:56:35 +0100 > On Fri, 20 Jan 1995 09:45:43 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: >>> FYI:- from the 1993 TexasInstruments HC Data book... > [pin layouts deleted. BTW whether it's correct or not, that version of 574 > looks more convenient...] Yep the 374 looks like it suited a bus which was inline with the chip and the 574 suites a bus that arrives one side and exits out the other... I couldn't find any other listing for the 574 other than HC(T) book, it's not listed in the (L)S data book! >> This is not what MY data book claims. I'm really sure that >> the lines were the same, BUT the 574 was active low. I'll check >> again, but...... > Does every data book claim a different thing? ;-) How are we supposed to > know what it _actually_ does? Has someone got one to test? >From the pinout Frode posted a little later it looks like his data book says the same as mine;-) And Si's right, for technical accuracy Maplin are CRAP, Farnell's better and offers FREE complete data sheets for all chips they sell! Johnathan. PS I'm not wasting any more time on this thread as I think it's safe to say that Maplins were simply wrong and that is that, if you want technically acurate pin-outs and device specs the get the official manuals or data sheets :-) Oh and that disclaimer guff at the bottom is nothing to do with me, it's standard form genterated by my hosts Fidonet<>Internet gateway software and is not configurable (at least I've NEVER seen a disclaimer generated by the same software used by other hosts around the world say anything different. And I do dislike it's wording as it's not entirely true as some people do share my idea's and opinions, not many but enough to allow some non-argumentative discussion, present company excepted Ian;-) ... Everyone is entitled to my opinion. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 22 08:42:41 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 22 Jan 95 03:44:05 +0000 Subject: FPC Message-Id: <1e5_9501220831@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3446 Lines: 76 On (20 Jan 95) sct1000@hermes.cam.ac.uk wrote... > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 19:09:16 +0000 (GMT) > From: Steve Taylor > I've got this problem. (No, not that problem) That's alright then;-) > I might just have been working on this new WIMP-style OS when I hit a bit > of a problem with the FPC. In this hypothetical system, the individual > applications are time-sliced using the frame interrupt, which also > triggers key scanning etc. > These applications each have their own FP stack (like the ROM uses), and > can execute FP instructions using RST 28 commands like with the ROM. Now, > I implemented this by copying each ap's FPC stack onto the ROM's, > executing a copy of the instructions, and copying the resulting stack > contents back. My problem arose when a DPL application wanted to run a > background routine. > DPL-compiled aps use the FPC nearly all the time, meaning that the ROM is > nearly always paged in, and the mode 1 interrupts never reach Driver. So > no other programs get processor time, the pointer never seems to move and > so on. I thought about vectoring the interrupts back into Driver, but the > time-slice problem remains: I couldn't safely switch to another > application for fear of what was happening to the original FPC stack. > The only feasible solution was to write my own FPC. Help! Hi Steve! Weeeell I assume that it's common pratice in a time-sharing enviroment that one shares the apps cpu time NOT the OS support functions... The FPC from the RST 28 to the End-of op code are ONE system function albeit a potentially very long one! So it is CORRECT to NOT task-switch whilst exectuting an FPC sequence A problem *could* occour if the FPC USR function was used but that's a another problem... In my unix-like system, which only has the single application entry point, I'll use the LINE interupt to increment tasks-ticks and it simply switches OFF the line interupt on entry to the OS and restores it again on exit back to the task. One 'sure-fire' way around you're problem (appart from re-writing the FPC to include multi-tasker hooks) is to swap the entire FPC stack and position with each task so each task gets it's own stack and position on context-switch. Could you use custom written rather than rom subroutines to push and pop numbers onto the FPC stack and incorprate code to disable a context switch and a seperate function to re-enable the context-switching After the entire FP operation was complete... Or you could store initial FP stack parameters on initial switching in a task and defer the next context switch until the FP stack is returned to its entry size, obviously this means that a context switch could be delayed a long time if the FPC work isn't neat and tidy leaving the stack properly balanced but it should prevent one task from using another tasks data(I think;) Oh can't you re-direct the frame interupt to driver whilst the roms paged in using FRAMIV at 5AE2H to allow you to maintain control in driver? Anyway I hope at least one of the ideas above gives you an easier way out of your dilema:-) Regards Johnathan. ... Just when you think it's hopelessly broken, it works. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 22 13:18:17 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 13:10:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: FPC In-Reply-To: <1e5_9501220831@centron.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2744 Lines: 65 On 22 Jan 1995, Johnathan Taylor wrote: > Hi Steve! > Weeeell I assume that it's common pratice in a time-sharing enviroment that > one shares the apps cpu time NOT the OS support functions... The FPC from the > RST 28 to the End-of op code are ONE system function albeit a potentially very > long one! So it is CORRECT to NOT task-switch whilst exectuting an FPC sequence > A problem *could* occour if the FPC USR function was used but that's a > another problem... > > In my unix-like system, which only has the single application entry point, I'll > use the LINE interupt to increment tasks-ticks and it simply switches OFF > the line interupt on entry to the OS and restores it again on exit back to > the task. That's how I'm working it at the moment, but using the frame int. > One 'sure-fire' way around you're problem (appart from re-writing the FPC > to include multi-tasker hooks) is to swap the entire FPC stack and position > with each task so each task gets it's own stack and position on context-switch. Each task has its own stack anyway - I just do some copying before and after the FPC call, in order to use the ROM. > Could you use custom written rather than rom subroutines to push and pop > numbers onto the FPC stack... Already done it. ...and incorprate code to disable a context switch > and a seperate function to re-enable the context-switching After the entire FP > operation was complete. > > Or you could store initial FP stack parameters on initial switching in a task > and defer the next context switch until the FP stack is returned to its entry > size, obviously this means that a context switch could be delayed a long time > if the FPC work isn't neat and tidy leaving the stack properly balanced but it > should prevent one task from using another tasks data(I think;) That isn't a problem at the moment - besides, DPL optimises its FPC calls in such a way that there might very well be things lying on the stack for ages, waiting to be used. It would be a very un-flexible way of doing things. > > Oh can't you re-direct the frame interupt to driver whilst the roms paged in > using FRAMIV at 5AE2H to allow you to maintain control in driver? Yeah, but not safely during FPC execution - Suppose two tasks want to use some FP at the same time. If we were to try and switch during an FP call (remember that the ROM is not really designed for this) lots of nasty system vars etc. need to be stored, updated etc, and I really want to avoid this kind of thing. > Anyway I hope at least one of the ideas above gives you an easier way out of > your dilema:-) Thanks. > Regards > Johnathan. Steve. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 22 15:46:45 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 15:42:23 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 162 Lines: 7 If anyone's interested (and can prove ownership of the original), I have the SAM rom source converted to MSDOS text format here on a disk... :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 22 22:23:39 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Jonathan's comms int mod... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 22:19:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 273 Lines: 12 Hi Jonathan... we've been having very odd results from doing the mod you suggested.... At the moment it seems that to get it to work you have to do your mod but leave the ground line uncut. (Or have we misunderstood the mod???) *shrugs* Anyway... Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 07:15:01 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 23 Jan 95 00:43:19 +0000 Subject: COMM`ix Terminal Program & TIFF Converter Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 729 Lines: 26 On (19 Jan 95) slawek@namu01.gwdg.de wrote to All... > From: slawek@namu01.gwdg.de > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 10:29:31 +0100 > Hi ! > I send to nvg... my Terminal Program COMM`ix ( shareware Version ) and > it will work with 14400 bps Modems at full Sam UART speed , have ASCI 4 Do you mean 38400baud max that the internal baud-rate generator does OR the ACTUAL Maximum that can be done using the programmable 16bitCTC as a Tx&Rx clock source? ie baud = 3686400 / (16 * CTC_constant) or 115200 baud! Regards Johnathan. ... This tagline is umop apisdn -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 09:50:51 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501230948.AA18001@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:48:11 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 22, 95 03:42:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 514 Lines: 14 > > If anyone's interested (and can prove ownership of the original), I have > the SAM rom source converted to MSDOS text format here on a disk... Bah! I have the source in nicely typseted Word-format. So there! :) -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 10:19:38 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:13:32 +0100 Message-Id: <95012310133265@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (I've got an idea, and it's as hot as my pants!) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Well I'm lost for words X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 686 Lines: 24 >Hi folks! > >We have just passed 1000 posting on this group and that's only since >10th January 1994 (almost precicely one year ago!) when Coling Piggot >posted the first posting about his SAM Info Server. > >And the winner (or, rather the document is): > >> >> Ere, Steve I'm sure it says Notepad is a Word processor in the DRiVER user >> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> guide. Well it does have Headers and footers..... >> > >> >Bobspeak for text editor. >> >> BoB - What a homo! > >[rest of doc deleted until...] > >> Lord Blackadder Well I'm honoured. Shame I couldn't have said something more interesting :-/ Lord B' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 10:27:45 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:15:42 +0100 Message-Id: <95012310154241@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (I've got an idea, and it's as hot as my pants!) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: ASIC X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 385 Lines: 14 >> A new ASIC would be great - count me in (on the money front, that is) > >We could do it if the people who originally wrote to YS saying they'd buy >one would put the money forward... and if we could convince Bruce, that >is... > >simon I never wrote in to YS - but you know I am prepared to put up some money. I said that to you lasty time, me thinks. Lord B' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 10:28:33 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:09:03 +0100 Message-Id: <95012310090364@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (I've got an idea, and it's as hot as my pants!) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Driver X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 409 Lines: 13 >> I would, except that I don't have my SAM or disks with me. Maybe someone >> else with access to the relevant issues of Fred would do it for me. >> (Don't worry about copyright or anything - I still retain it, not Fred) > >I might be able to find them over the weekend... > >imc What a good idea! So somebody has them. Upload them, so we can all start developing Driver utils! :) Lord B' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 10:28:58 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:22:09 +0100 Message-Id: <95012310220972@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (I've got an idea, and it's as hot as my pants!) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Graffiti X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 377 Lines: 22 > >I have three MDVs and about 80 carts. Only 1 IF1 though. > >I am writing this on a swivel chair... > >Brian I have 1 Microdrive and 2 carts ! My mother told me not to write on furniture! How does it connect to your terminal? I suppose I will just have to stick with the keyboard. Lord B' P.S Will we ever see the Cherry Swival Chair??? :) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 10:29:01 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:53:45 +0100 Message-Id: <95012309534526@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (I've got an idea, and it's as hot as my pants!) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Teledisk X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 747 Lines: 27 >> >> > imc >> > >> > PS we ain't all got PCs you know. What am I supposed to do with that .td0 >> > file someone mentioned earlier?... >> > >> >> Good question... Anyone up for writing the SAM version of teledisk??? >> > >Teledisk is copyrighted, and 'nobody' probably knows >the file-format of the thing. Well, instead of writing a SAM version of Teledisk - why doesn't somebody write a SAM disk to file thingy. I think that if we are supporting the people with SAM's, we should at least make the software available in a format they can use! I have a PC with teledisk - buggered if I can get it to work. It just appears to hang once it is half way through the disk image. >> SImon >> >> Lord Blackadder From imc Mon Jan 23 10:57:36 1995 Subject: Re: FPC To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 10:57:36 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Steve Taylor" at Jan 20, 95 7:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 737 Lines: 14 On Fri, 20 Jan 1995 19:09:16 +0000 (GMT), Steve Taylor said: > DPL-compiled aps use the FPC nearly all the time, meaning that the ROM is > nearly always paged in, and the mode 1 interrupts never reach Driver. So > no other programs get processor time, the pointer never seems to move and > so on. Well, I may have completely misunderstood the problem here, but how about examining the frame counter after each RST28 call to see whether one or more interrupts occurred and then forcing a task switch immediately if one did? I presume that if you wanted the pointer to keep moving then you would have no problems in attaching a "move the pointer but don't switch tasks" subroutine to the frame interrupt vector... imc From imc Mon Jan 23 11:03:54 1995 Subject: Re: Now lets look through the round window To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 11:03:54 GMT In-Reply-To: <6138@bgserv.demon.co.uk>; from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jan 20, 95 10:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 486 Lines: 11 On Fri, 20 Jan 1995 22:21:58 GMT, Brian Gaff Sam Dept. said: > Agreed, would a SAM ASIC be of use? There are a lot of them > around I believe! :-) Possibly. You would need lots of extra stuff to get it to change modes and palette at the right times, given a list of changes which the emulator recorded (it can't control the ASIC direct, because it might not be running at the same speed as the Sam). However, I'm not the one who is going to build this thing... :-) imc From imc Mon Jan 23 11:25:23 1995 Subject: Re: Driver To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 11:25:23 GMT In-Reply-To: <95012310090364@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk>; from "I've got an idea, and it's as hot as my pants!" at Jan 23, 95 10:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 627 Lines: 16 On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:09:03 +0100, someone who shall remain nameless said: [I said about Driver docs] > >I might be able to find them over the weekend... > What a good idea! So somebody has them. Upload them, so we can all start > developing Driver utils! :) Unfortunately I didn't find them. What I think happened was this: my brother sent me about 15 disks a couple of months ago containing lots of stuff that I didn't ask for, including the driver docs. Unfortunately, one of the disks was corrupted so I sent it back. Now then, guess which disk turns out to have been the corrupted one... :-( imc From imc Mon Jan 23 11:33:19 1995 Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 11:33:19 GMT In-Reply-To: <199501230948.AA18001@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Jan 23, 95 10:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 641 Lines: 17 On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:48:11 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: si> If anyone's interested (and can prove ownership of the original), I have si> the SAM rom source converted to MSDOS text format here on a disk... > Bah! I have the source in nicely typseted Word-format. So there! :) Nicely-typeset and Word-format don't belong in the same sentence. So there! :-) Anyway, what does he mean by "prove ownership of the original"? I would be interested in the source (preferably in a nicely-typeset format that I can read without the aid of a PC, but failing that, ASCII will do. Perhaps I can format it myself...). imc From imc Mon Jan 23 11:37:03 1995 Subject: Re: Where's everyone gone? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 11:37:03 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 20, 95 5:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 359 Lines: 12 On Fri, 20 Jan 1995 17:01:25 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > All the books I've got say that the 574 and the 374 are mirrored input > and output pinouts... What do you mean by "mirrored"? > Don't listen to Maplins -- they're crap. I wonder whether you could qualify this comment a little. I would be interested to hear your reasons... imc From imc Mon Jan 23 11:44:40 1995 Subject: Re: .SNA to SAM snap converter To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 11:44:40 GMT In-Reply-To: <9501201107.AA18545@dxmint.cern.ch>; from "Allan Skillman" at Jan 20, 95 12:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 482 Lines: 13 On Fri, 20 Jan 95 12:07:49 MET, Allan Skillman said: > BTW does anyone out there know what the hell the USING keyword does in SAM > BASIC or is it just a leftover I have looked it up and done some experiments and my conclusion is that it does nothing whatsoever. Perhaps it is used in Master BASIC, or was intended to be used in Sam BASIC but had to be left out. I presume it would have been for instructions of the form PRINT USING "This is my $#.##";2/100. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 12:06:41 1995 From: Nigel J Kettlewell Message-Id: <22673.199501231156@granite> Subject: Re: .SNA to SAM snap converter To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 11:56:51 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9501231144.AA01447@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 23, 95 12:44:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 685 Lines: 21 > > BTW does anyone out there know what the hell the USING keyword does in SAM > > BASIC or is it just a leftover > > I have looked it up and done some experiments and my conclusion is that > it does nothing whatsoever. Perhaps it is used in Master BASIC, or was > intended to be used in Sam BASIC but had to be left out. > > I presume it would have been for instructions of the form > > PRINT USING "This is my $#.##";2/100. Umm, I think it actually _does_ do the sort of thing you're showing, though I can't remember for the life of me what the syntax is. I'm sure it's documented somewhere, too, as I'm sure I've seen the syntax written down... Nige From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 12:17:27 1995 Message-Id: <9501231213.AA04380@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman (Dr Kid) Subject: Re: .SNA to SAM snap converter To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 13:13:38 MET In-Reply-To: <22673.199501231156@granite>; from "Nigel J Kettlewell" at Jan 23, 95 11:56 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 104 Lines: 4 I agree with Ian, its a SAM BASIC keyword, but nothing I've tried passes the syntax checker Allan From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 12:23:15 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501231219.AA21934@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:19:45 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9501231133.AA01311@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 23, 95 12:33:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1155 Lines: 34 > > On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:48:11 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > > > si> If anyone's interested (and can prove ownership of the original), I have > si> the SAM rom source converted to MSDOS text format here on a disk... > > > Bah! I have the source in nicely typseted Word-format. So there! :) > > Nicely-typeset and Word-format don't belong in the same sentence. So > there! :-) I _could_ always convert it to PS if that is better. I stress 'could' as the file is back in Norway. > > Anyway, what does he mean by "prove ownership of the original"? I would be > interested in the source (preferably in a nicely-typeset format that I can > read without the aid of a PC, but failing that, ASCII will do. Perhaps I > can format it myself...). You probably have to have the disc with the source from the Doc himself. > > imc > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 12:26:26 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501231222.AA22057@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: .SNA to SAM snap converter To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:22:37 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <22673.199501231156@granite> from "Nigel J Kettlewell" at Jan 23, 95 11:56:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 820 Lines: 28 > > I presume it would have been for instructions of the form > > > > PRINT USING "This is my $#.##";2/100. > > Umm, I think it actually _does_ do the sort of thing you're showing, though > I can't remember for the life of me what the syntax is. What you both are thinking of is probably PRINT USING$ ("#.##",2/100) (or reversed) - I think. (???) I have found no use of PRINT USING only. > > I'm sure it's documented somewhere, too, as I'm sure I've seen the syntax > written down... > > Nige > > > > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 12:26:58 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <24028.9501231213@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: .SNA to SAM snap converter To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 12:13:40 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9501231144.AA01447@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 23, 95 12:44:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1188 Lines: 34 To Quote Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk : > > On Fri, 20 Jan 95 12:07:49 MET, Allan Skillman said: > > BTW does anyone out there know what the hell the USING keyword does in SAM > > BASIC or is it just a leftover > > I have looked it up and done some experiments and my conclusion is that > it does nothing whatsoever. Perhaps it is used in Master BASIC, or was > intended to be used in Sam BASIC but had to be left out. > > I presume it would have been for instructions of the form > > PRINT USING "This is my $#.##";2/100. > > imc > >From what I remember this is the case. It was going to be in sam basic, but like the DUMP command got left out because of space. Dr A did have a simular command in MasterBASIC, but he called it USING$, and from what I remember you used some form of formatting string so that USING$("$#.##",54.6544) would give you the string "$54.65" or something like that. Since you would only actually use the formatting for a string, this seems just as useful, unless anyone can think of another case. Tim -- Tim Paveley - University of Southampton Sam Coupe Web Pages: http://whig.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93/Coupe/home.html From imc Mon Jan 23 12:26:58 1995 Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 12:26:58 GMT In-Reply-To: <199501231219.AA21934@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Jan 23, 95 1:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 456 Lines: 11 On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:19:45 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > You probably have to have the disc with the source from the Doc > himself. Ah, so we are talking about the original source, not just a copy of the ROM... Anyway, I didn't know it was possible to get source from the Doc himself (except that some of it has been on a Sam Newsdisk). Excuse me from being dumb, but if I have that, then why would I need another copy of it?... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 12:27:01 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 12:20:51 +0100 Message-Id: <95012312205127@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (I've got an idea, and it's as hot as my pants!) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Driver X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 586 Lines: 20 >Unfortunately I didn't find them. What I think happened was this: my >brother sent me about 15 disks a couple of months ago containing lots of >stuff that I didn't ask for, including the driver docs. Unfortunately, >one of the disks was corrupted so I sent it back. > >Now then, guess which disk turns out to have been the corrupted one... :-( > >imc Has Steve created a nasty program that corrupts everybodies versions of the Driver docs????? Someone must have them somewhere. Well, Steve - no chance of any applications arriving for Driver :) Lord B' From imc Mon Jan 23 12:29:33 1995 Subject: Re: Driver To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 12:29:33 GMT In-Reply-To: <95012312205127@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk>; from "I've got an idea, and it's as hot as my pants!" at Jan 23, 95 12:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 479 Lines: 15 On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 12:20:51 +0100, I've got an idea, and it's as hot as my pants! said: > Has Steve created a nasty program that corrupts everybodies versions of the > Driver docs????? Apparently my brother copied it with Driver, so that might be true... :-) > Someone must have them somewhere. I can get him to resend them - only it will take a week or so. Any advance on a week? > Well, Steve - no chance of any applications arriving for Driver :) imc From imc Mon Jan 23 12:32:14 1995 Subject: Re: .SNA to SAM snap converter To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 12:32:14 GMT In-Reply-To: <199501231222.AA22057@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Jan 23, 95 1:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 370 Lines: 13 On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:22:37 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > What you both are thinking of is probably > PRINT USING$ ("#.##",2/100) (or reversed) - I think. (???) No I wasn't, because I've never seen that... :-) > I have found no use of PRINT USING only. I have, in another version of BASIC (I think it was PDP-11 or something equally weird). imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 12:43:37 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501231241.AA22549@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:41:03 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9501231226.AA01650@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 23, 95 01:26:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 760 Lines: 24 > Ah, so we are talking about the original source, not just a copy of the ROM... Probably...that's what I would interpret it anyway. > > Anyway, I didn't know it was possible to get source from the Doc himself > (except that some of it has been on a Sam Newsdisk). Excuse me from being > dumb, but if I have that, then why would I need another copy of it?... It is. Because you wouldn't have it in MSDOS format. P.S.: You'r forgiven. :) > > imc > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From imc Mon Jan 23 12:48:25 1995 Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 12:48:25 GMT In-Reply-To: <199501231241.AA22549@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Jan 23, 95 1:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 99 Lines: 6 On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:41:03 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said tersely... > It is. How? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 12:57:47 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 12:42:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: FPC In-Reply-To: <9501231057.AA00981@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 554 Lines: 14 > Well, I may have completely misunderstood the problem here, but how about > examining the frame counter after each RST28 call to see whether one or > more interrupts occurred and then forcing a task switch immediately if > one did? I presume that if you wanted the pointer to keep moving then > you would have no problems in attaching a "move the pointer but don't > switch tasks" subroutine to the frame interrupt vector... > > imc Ahhh... good idea. I'll have to see how effective it is, but it sounds fair enough. Cheers, Steve. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 13:03:43 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501231257.AA22847@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:57:38 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9501231248.AA01929@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 23, 95 01:48:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 433 Lines: 18 > > On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:41:03 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said tersely... > > It is. > > How? > >From the Doc himself. > imc > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From imc Mon Jan 23 13:04:59 1995 Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 13:04:59 GMT In-Reply-To: <199501231257.AA22847@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Jan 23, 95 1:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 131 Lines: 6 On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:57:38 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > From the Doc himself. I said "how", not "who from"... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 13:13:45 1995 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Bc-Disk > Teledisk For Sam Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 14:08:30 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9501231408.aa03680@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1734 Lines: 42 Hi cm3hdlt! (don't you have a real name???!!) > Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:53:45 +0100 > From: > Subject: Teledisk > >>> > imc >>> > >>> > PS we ain't all got PCs you know. What am I supposed to do with >>> > that .td0 file someone mentioned earlier?... >>> >>> Good question... Anyone up for writing the SAM version of teledisk??? >>> >> Teledisk is copyrighted, and 'nobody' probably knows >> the file-format of the thing. > > Well, instead of writing a SAM version of Teledisk - why doesn't > somebody write a SAM disk to file thingy. I think that if we are > supporting the people with SAM's, we should at least make the software > available in a format they can use! As I mentioned in a message 2 days ago I have written such a program, it's written in SAM Basic (needing Masterdos), and although it's very simple it works fine on a basic 512K SAM with one drive. I have uploaded it some minutes ago (Basic to ASCII converted) to nvg. You will find it in the SAM incoming dir with the name BC-DISK1.BBA >I have a PC with teledisk - buggered if I can get it to work. It just appears >to hang once it is half way through the disk image. I had problems with TD 2.13 too, then I tried TD 2.10 and it worked fine. Bye, Arne +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it ...leeds.ac.uk soon! | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 8pm CET | | ---- proud - SAM Coupe 512K - Psion Series 3 - GUS MAX - owner ---- | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 13:14:28 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501231311.AA23320@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 14:11:18 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9501231305.AA02534@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 23, 95 02:04:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 518 Lines: 18 > > From the Doc himself. > > I said "how", not "who from"... OK! How: You _order_ it from the doc himself. :) (sorry...haven't got any mor details here, perhaps in Format, or perhaps someone else knows?) > > imc > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 15:20:47 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 14:56:48 +0100 Message-Id: <95012314564820@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (Lord Blackadder) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Teledisk X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1772 Lines: 50 >Hi cm3hdlt! (don't you have a real name???!!) Hello Arne, Yes - It's Luke Trevorrow (sounds like tomorrow!) Or Lord Blackadder - as I am usually called. I am getting fed up with the shit I get because of my pers. I am using a DEC machine running VMS to send this. I will change to my UNIX account instead. >> >> Well, instead of writing a SAM version of Teledisk - why doesn't >> somebody write a SAM disk to file thingy. I think that if we are >> supporting the people with SAM's, we should at least make the software >> available in a format they can use! > >As I mentioned in a message 2 days ago I have written such a program, >it's written in SAM Basic (needing Masterdos), and although it's very >simple it works fine on a basic 512K SAM with one drive. >I have uploaded it some minutes ago (Basic to ASCII converted) to nvg. >You will find it in the SAM incoming dir with the name BC-DISK1.BBA > That's great - now all we need is for everyone to start using that instead of Teledisk. Any comments?? It might be nice if somebody converted all of the .TD0 files to the new format so that imc can use them. >>I have a PC with teledisk - buggered if I can get it to work. It just >>appears to hang once it is half way through the disk image. > >I had problems with TD 2.13 too, then I tried TD 2.10 and it worked fine. > >Bye, Arne Excellent - Now where did you get it from? Or is that for me to find out. >| Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it ...leeds.ac.uk soon! | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Great - my friend is studying Cognitive Science at Leeds Uni. We could all meet up - I'm sure Si and anybody else would be invited! Andre's going to kill me for saying that :) Lord Blackadder From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 16:02:29 1995 Message-Id: <9501231551.AA13894@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman (Dr Kid) Subject: PrinterFX and SNA->SAM Snap converter To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 16:51:06 MET Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 735 Lines: 23 Hi Everyone, I've just uploaded my printerFX and snap convertion programs to ftp.nvg.unit.no You can find them in the /pub/sam-coupe/incoming directory under:- printerFX : prntfx.pak SnapsConv : convrt.pak Both in RUMSOFT format (Use unpak on the utils disc). Let me know how you get on with them. BTW I forgot to mension before that the SNAP converter uses MASTERDos basic commands to check file types etc, but these calls should be quite easy to change/remove (anyway you should all have purchased a copy from the good Doc) The printer code sequences on the other program can be edited in the BASIC program provided. The ones already set up are all pretty standard Epson FX80 commands. regards Allan From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 16:50:25 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 16:11:34 +0100 Message-Id: <95012316113460@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> From: cm3hdlt@bs41.staffs.ac.uk (Lord Blackadder) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Upload X-Vms-To: SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 380 Lines: 12 I have put some thingys in the incoming directory. There is the Maastrict Treaty - for those who are politically minded My BUZZ demo shite Some piccy's and a couple of tunes. These are all packed using the RUMSOFT archiver - don't get confused with the .ARC extension (sorry - too long using ST archivers (I won't do it again - promise *sniff*)) Lord Blackadder From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 19:32:28 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Comm'Ix To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 19:31:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <6188@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jan 22, 95 07:57:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 348 Lines: 11 > > What, you mean the pins are just not there? I wonder who did > that? Not totally serious, but it looks like costs are going to > increase then. They're just not there at all... we had to solder some into a couple of boards we had here... and they're all version 1.2 -- even mine and Martin's which still had the pins... Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 19:33:29 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Sam RS232 comms To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 19:26:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <1a7_9501211953@centron.com> from "Johnathan Taylor" at Jan 20, 95 06:41:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2420 Lines: 53 > Oh you're quite right it could be a problem... But not that serious;-) > When you check for character availability you first check the Ring-buffer and > if none there then disable the interupts and check the UART RxRDY bit then re- > enable the interupts... > When Reading a character do the same as above but get the character from which- > ever has a character character first.. > > More software overhead in bytes but they're only executed *when* you check/read > a character and not whilst you're trying to process the data... Understood, but it seems to work as it is... I'll think about it :) I've gone pretty modular with this code anyway, so it shouldn't make too much of a difference... > Under ProDos1923 apart from momentary DI's during context switches the only > time I disable the interupts is during the disk-allocation find-first free > block routine as that places the stack on top of the actual allocation vector > bit-map and uses non-standard methods to search through it.. Interupts whilst > in that routine would be fatal! > Note I don't even Disable the interupts when doing the fast PUSH HL... > style screen clear routine. Okay.... I can understand that this would work, but you might get slight screen glitches. At the moment I use a string of 1024 LDI's in a loop to clear the screen -- it'll be replaced with a starting XOR A followed by a string of LD (HL),A:INC L's... > I'd suggest that when hooking in scripts that you give the screen the least > priority ie force the most time efficient emulated screen mode ie No colour, > ANSI filtering rather than calculations and a 24x64 or 85 if there's time... > > Or even avoiding screen output until an error ocours in the script! > ie keep the script-mode code seperate from the hands-on mode or both will > suffer! Ahhhhh.... understood... actually I've planned for this with a script command called ECHO -- it can be ON or OFF. In ON mode, all incoming data goes to the screen via the terminal processor. Terminal modes can be decided on using TERMINAL "term.file" -- where term.file is the terminal type overlay file you want to use... The scripts will be compiled anyway, so it should make things quite nice and fast... > [Sam Fax] > It'll take some time as they're on Fidonet, I'll get right on it:-) > (I hope the docs aren't too big;-) Excellent! Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 19:40:56 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Where's everyone gone? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 19:36:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9501231137.AA01350@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 23, 95 12:37:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 648 Lines: 20 > > On Fri, 20 Jan 1995 17:01:25 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > > All the books I've got say that the 574 and the 374 are mirrored input > > and output pinouts... > > What do you mean by "mirrored"? Data in where data out is on the other chip and vice versa... > > Don't listen to Maplins -- they're crap. > > I wonder whether you could qualify this comment a little. I would be > interested to hear your reasons... Awful technical data sheets which carry none of the information you need, just the front page, higher prices than others, only carry a limited range of products... need any more persuasion? Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 19:42:18 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 19:35:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9501231133.AA01311@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 23, 95 12:33:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 346 Lines: 11 > > Anyway, what does he mean by "prove ownership of the original"? I would be > interested in the source (preferably in a nicely-typeset format that I can > read without the aid of a PC, but failing that, ASCII will do. Perhaps I > can format it myself...). > I mean that you have bought the SAM version rom Betasoft :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 19:50:58 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 19:38:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9501231226.AA01650@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 23, 95 01:26:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 540 Lines: 13 > Ah, so we are talking about the original source, not just a copy of the ROM... > > Anyway, I didn't know it was possible to get source from the Doc himself > (except that some of it has been on a Sam Newsdisk). Excuse me from being > dumb, but if I have that, then why would I need another copy of it?... > Because (a) if you've only got the Newsdisk one, you've not got all of it and (b) if you want to read it on a PC and perhaps use a PC z80 cross assembler to let you modify the original source easily?... Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 23 20:03:50 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: Bc-Disk > Teledisk For Sam Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 14:59:00 PST Message-Id: <2F247808@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 31 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 964 Lines: 31 With any sort of disc->file utility on the Coupe, wouldn't it be a good idea to incorporate some form of compression as the resulting image (800 odd K) would cover more than one disc (a pain) so even a crappy algorithm would compress it enough to fit on one disc. Also the disc image would have to be in several sections (3 or 4) since you cannot transfer an 800k file via KE-Disk. So all you clever coders out there who know every pin spec of a 76454-45-QW4 IC, are you up for the blag? > > >I have a PC with teledisk - buggered if I can get it to work. It just > > >appears to hang once it is half way through the disk image. > > > > I had problems with TD 2.13 too, then I tried TD 2.10 and it worked fine. > > I now cannot get ANY version of teledisk (2.10,2.13,2.15) to read Sam discs properly :( > That is perhaps because most of the stuff is saved with 2.10!? This is perhaps because teledisk is poo. Dan Doore From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 02:53:28 1995 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Bc-Disk (1) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 3:51:52 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9501240351.aa07214@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2429 Lines: 62 Hi Daniel! >From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" >Subject: Re: Bc-Disk > Teledisk For Sam >Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 14:59:00 PST > >With any sort of disc->file utility on the Coupe, wouldn't it be a good idea >to incorporate some form of compression as the resulting image (800 odd K) >would cover more than one disc (a pain) so even a crappy algorithm would >compress it enough to fit on one disc. BC-DISK does already use compression, since it uses the code-file compression of Masterbasic (BTW I forgot to mention BC-DISK needs Masterdos AND Masterbasic in order to work). The compression is very effective, you always get a file smaller than the actual used diskspace (of course the disk must not contain erased files as they are still on the disk, only their directory entry is marked as free, so the erased files improve the size of the image file like non erased files). I think in the next version of BC-DISK I will eliminate this problem with the erased files by reading only sectors actually used by files. This should increase speed too if the disk is not almost full. >Also the disc image would have to be in several sections (3 or 4) since you >cannot transfer an 800k file via KE-Disk. BC-DISK does this, too, it creates two files, one for each side of the disk. >So all you clever coders out there who know every pin spec of a 76454-45-QW4 >IC, are you up for the blag? They shouldn't be bothered with such trivialities! :-) If you want to try BC-DISK and you still have problems with downloads from nvg I can Email it to you... >I now cannot get ANY version of teledisk (2.10,2.13,2.15) to read Sam discs >properly :( > >> That is perhaps because most of the stuff is saved with 2.10!? > >This is perhaps because teledisk is poo. BTW I used Copy-QM, which has a disk image function too, for making backups on HD of all my SAM disks and I think it works much more reliable than Teledisk. Bye, Arne +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it ...leeds.ac.uk soon! | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 8pm CET | | ---- proud - SAM Coupe 512K - Psion Series 3 - GUS MAX - owner ---- | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 02:54:04 1995 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Bc-Disk (2) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 3:52:34 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9501240352.aa07255@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2766 Lines: 71 Hi Lord Blackadder! >Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 14:56:48 +0100 >From: Lord Blackadder > >Yes - It's Luke Trevorrow (sounds like tomorrow!) >Or Lord Blackadder - as I am usually called. I am getting fed up with the >shit I get because of my pers. I am using a DEC machine running VMS to send >this. I will change to my UNIX account instead. I remember the comments from B.B. in Format last spring, so I can understand your feelings... ;-) >>As I mentioned in a message 2 days ago I have written such a program, >>it's written in SAM Basic (needing Masterdos), and although it's very >>simple it works fine on a basic 512K SAM with one drive. >>I have uploaded it some minutes ago (Basic to ASCII converted) to nvg. >>You will find it in the SAM incoming dir with the name BC-DISK1.BBA > >That's great - now all we need is for everyone to start using that instead >of Teledisk. Any comments?? The program is there, now it's up to you and to everyone else to download and use it ... >It might be nice if somebody converted all of the .TD0 files to the new format >so that imc can use them. This should be done by someone with free direct Internet access, at the moment I can't do it, my next phone bill would kill me... ;-) (my last one was already around 100 pounds and I still have to find some way to pay it...) >>I had problems with TD 2.13 too, then I tried TD 2.10 and it worked fine. > >Excellent - Now where did you get it from? Or is that for me to find out. I really don't rember, I think from some local BBS here... If you don't find it on Internet I could mail it to you, but I think you will find it probably on src.doc.ic.ac.uk or any other large ftp-site. >>| Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it ...leeds.ac.uk soon! | > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Great - my friend is studying Cognitive Science at Leeds Uni. We could all ^^^^^^^^^^something to do with espionage? ;-) >meet up - I'm sure Si and anybody else would be invited! Would be great... I will be there for the whole second semester. BTW isn't there someone else here in this mailing-list who's in Leeds? >Andre's going to kill me for saying that :) :-))) Bye, Arne +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it ...leeds.ac.uk soon! | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 8pm CET | | ---- proud - SAM Coupe 512K - Psion Series 3 - GUS MAX - owner ---- | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 07:17:42 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 24 Jan 95 01:23:28 +0000 Subject: FPC Message-Id: <4d2_9501240709@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3128 Lines: 67 On (22 Jan 95) sct1000@hermes.cam.ac.uk wrote to All... > OAA00488 for sam-users-outgoing; Sun, 22 Jan 1995 14:12:50 +0100 > [131.111.8.33]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id > OAA00483 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 1995 14:12:39 +0100 > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 13:10:45 +0000 (GMT) > From: Steve Taylor > On 22 Jan 1995, Johnathan Taylor wrote: > In my unix-like system, which only has the single application entry point, > I'll use the LINE interupt to increment tasks-ticks and it simply switches > OFF the line interupt on entry to the OS and restores it again on exit back > to the task. > That's how I'm working it at the moment, but using the frame int. The only difference though is the important one that the SAM system ROM has multiple entry-points rather than a single RST with magic numbers for system function required... can make it more dificult to maintain proper control:-( >> Or you could store initial FP stack parameters on initial switching in a >> task and defer the next context switch until the FP stack is returned to >> its entry size > That isn't a problem at the moment - besides, DPL optimises its FPC calls > in such a way that there might very well be things lying on the stack for > ages, waiting to be used. It would be a very un-flexible way of doing > things. That would definatly mess up the task switching.... Si mentioned somthing about the Floating point library ala Small-C.... There's also another one in Hi-Tech C for CP/M-z80... though as yet I've not had to use it as *Most* applications can be implemented in integer maths:-) >> Oh can't you re-direct the frame interupt to driver whilst the roms paged >> in using FRAMIV at 5AE2H to allow you to maintain control in driver? > Yeah, but not safely during FPC execution - Suppose two tasks want to use > some FP at the same time. If we were to try and switch during an FP call > (remember that the ROM is not really designed for this) lots of nasty > system vars etc. need to be stored, updated etc, and I really want to > avoid this kind of thing. Use the RST38 redirection to keep track of 'ticks' and hooks via RST28V to keep track of FPC progress to determine a neutral point at which a context switch can occour and then swap stacks and FPC BREG or is that BCREG and it's six 5byte memories plus anything else that's important:-) As you say the ROM was not designed to share itself so you'll have to swap everything that makes it not work, sorry. This DPL compiler of yours.... How much like compiling stuff under C is it? It could be useful for equiping the sam-nativ'ish mode with the many standard utils whose only other options would be to either crawl along in a BASIC port or be written in machine code which is a bit of a pain IMHO Regards Johnathan ... (((((YOU)))))((((ARE))))(((((FEELING)))))(((((SLEEPY))))) -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 07:17:43 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 23 Jan 95 22:29:45 +0000 Subject: Jonathan's comms int mod... Message-Id: <4d1_9501240709@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2363 Lines: 54 On (22 Jan 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote to All... Hi Si! > From: Simon Cooke > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 22:19:14 +0000 (GMT) > Hi Jonathan... we've been having very odd results from doing the mod you > suggested.... Errr do you mean me? or was there someone else same name spelt differently? > At the moment it seems that to get it to work you have to do your mod but > leave the ground line uncut. (Or have we misunderstood the mod???) Assuming you mean my original mod from year(s) back then you shouldn't touch the ground line! The MOD is simply to reduce the +Vcc to the UART ONLY by cutting the +Vcc track between the decoupling disc-ceramic capacitor and the UART and patching a *forward* biased general-purpose silicon diode from the +Vcc solder-pad of the disc-ceramic previously mentioned and the +Vcc pin of the UART. This just happens to reduce the UART's logic-zero output to below the critical point at which it previosly gave false 1's. (Just one of those flashes of inspiration that worked first time;-)) I did *TRY* connecting the other SAM-BUS 0V to the COMMS-INT 0V circuit and I believe it helped when the diode fix wasn't used but wasn't 100% reliable, whilst the diode fix did make it 100% reliable with or without any other 0V extras:-) Oh Si, An alternative to using FiFoFull UART interupt you *could* do RxRDY and whilst in it's ISR Disable all other interupts and sit there reading the Fifo until empty or software ring-buffer fills.... If Ring-buffer full occours first then try issuing a UART command to de-assert MPO manually then hopfully there'll be enough Fifo positions left for the sender to react and stop sending and not lose chars ie a PeeCee Null-modem sender, Modems are ok as they honour RTS flow-control properly. It should overcome the interupt latency forced on us by having to determine who caused the interupt via the asic status reg and then the UART ISR... If the above works then it might allow SAM to receive at 115200baud I mentioned in a previous message about commix;-) Regards Johnathan. ... Finagle's first Law: If an experiment works, something has gone wrong. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 09:19:27 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: Bc-Disk (2) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 09:16:00 PST Message-Id: <2F253484@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 9 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 249 Lines: 9 > BTW isn't there someone else here in this mailing-list who's in Leeds? 'fraid so! Dan Doore d.j.doore@lmu.ac.uk :) ^^^ Leeds Metropolitan University.... From imc Tue Jan 24 11:35:10 1995 Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 11:35:11 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 23, 95 7:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 528 Lines: 17 Simon Cooke wibbled... >I mean that you have bought the SAM version rom Betasoft :) Don't just sit there, give me the ordering information... :-) > Because (a) if you've only got the Newsdisk one, you've not got all of it I think that was implied by my use of the word "some". ;-) > and (b) if you want to read it on a PC and perhaps use a PC z80 cross > assembler to let you modify the original source easily?... If I wanted to do that then what stops me from just coying the Sam version across? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 12:57:24 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:53:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9501241135.AA11375@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 24, 95 12:35:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 735 Lines: 22 > Don't just sit there, give me the ordering information... :-) Okay okay... lemme get my little black book... Actually, if you've got MasterDOS, you've already got the address to write off to... BRIAN!!!! WHERE ARE YOU????? WE NEED A PRICE!!! > > Because (a) if you've only got the Newsdisk one, you've not got all of it > > I think that was implied by my use of the word "some". ;-) > > > and (b) if you want to read it on a PC and perhaps use a PC z80 cross > > assembler to let you modify the original source easily?... > > If I wanted to do that then what stops me from just coying the Sam version > across? The fact that it's compressed. I had to hack the printer code to get it out... Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 12:58:22 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Jonathan's comms int mod... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:49:45 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <4d1_9501240709@centron.com> from "Johnathan Taylor" at Jan 23, 95 10:29:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2887 Lines: 56 > Assuming you mean my original mod from year(s) back then you shouldn't touch > the ground line! The MOD is simply to reduce the +Vcc to the UART ONLY by > cutting the +Vcc track between the decoupling disc-ceramic capacitor and the > UART and patching a *forward* biased general-purpose silicon diode from the > +Vcc solder-pad of the disc-ceramic previously mentioned and the +Vcc pin of > the UART. > This just happens to reduce the UART's logic-zero output to below the critical > point at which it previosly gave false 1's. (Just one of those flashes of > inspiration that worked first time;-)) I'll check with Martin... it may be the same mod and I'm getting mixed up, but it didn't work before we did it, and only worked when we had restored the cut track *and* had the diode in place as you describe as well... How odd.. > I did *TRY* connecting the other SAM-BUS 0V to the COMMS-INT 0V circuit and > I believe it helped when the diode fix wasn't used but wasn't 100% reliable, > whilst the diode fix did make it 100% reliable with or without any other 0V > extras:-) *grins* Don't you just love it. I wish that Bruce had just done the ASIC and everyone else had mulled around on the board -- the sam would have been released much earlier and perhaps would have been less buggy in these respects -- no disrespect to bruce there though. > Oh Si, An alternative to using FiFoFull UART interupt you *could* do RxRDY > and whilst in it's ISR Disable all other interupts and sit there reading the > Fifo until empty or software ring-buffer fills.... If Ring-buffer full occours > first then try issuing a UART command to de-assert MPO manually then hopfully > there'll be enough Fifo positions left for the sender to react and stop sending > and not lose chars ie a PeeCee Null-modem sender, Modems are ok as they honour > RTS flow-control properly. > It should overcome the interupt latency forced on us by having to determine > who caused the interupt via the asic status reg and then the UART ISR... Funny you should mention this -- last night I connected the SAM to the PC and saw what happened -- lost chars all over the place due to the PC's dodgy hardware flow control. All I can say is... What a chip the IM26C91 is! > If the above works then it might allow SAM to receive at 115200baud I mentioned > in a previous message about commix;-) Hmmmmm........ If only /my/ SAM (as opposed to Martin's) had a working keyboard and a working drive. I don't want one of the dodgy ones from West Coast though... Actually, we're trying to get the High Density drive working soon... we've made the PCB for the SAM Hard Drive (v0.2) now, and we'll post laser-printed acetates to you (jonathan) as well as a guide to what chip's where) in the near future... I assume that you /can/ photoetch pcbs? :) Simon From imc Tue Jan 24 13:02:27 1995 Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 13:02:27 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 24, 95 12:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 485 Lines: 14 On Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:53:29 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > Okay okay... lemme get my little black book... Actually, if you've got > MasterDOS, you've already got the address to write off to... Well I haven't... :-) > The fact that it's compressed. I had to hack the printer code to get it > out... "Had to", or just didn't bother trying it the "proper" way? I wouldn't have thought one would have too much difficulty in finding the compression method. :-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 13:16:37 1995 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:56:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: FPC In-Reply-To: <4d2_9501240709@centron.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1773 Lines: 34 On 24 Jan 1995, Johnathan Taylor wrote: > This DPL compiler of yours.... How much like compiling stuff under C is it? > It could be useful for equiping the sam-nativ'ish mode with the many standard > utils whose only other options would be to either crawl along in a BASIC port > or be written in machine code which is a bit of a pain IMHO Okay. DPL is a Pascal-type language, but tweaked slightly to make it more suitable for an event-driven environment like Driver. The current version (of the compiler) contains facilities for procedures/functions, type checking, a minimum number of constructs (a DO [WHILE]..[EXIT]..LOOP [UNTIL], a IF..[ELSEIF]..[ELSEIF etc]..[ELSE]..ENDIF), a BLOCK..END and a standard set of built-in procedures/functions for interfacing with Driver, converting between types etc. It compiles code using the new Driver v2 protocol (which basically means that it runs in lomem with a block of interface code added by the OS at the bottom, allowing hooks into Driver to be written very consisely as RSTs). It's nice to use, too (IMHO), although at the moment you're limited to the standard INT (0-65535), REAL, BOOL and STRING types, and there is no way of creating your own. I want to add array support before distributing it. I've been playing with it over Xmas, and I managed to get some interesting (although practically useless) results from it; it copes well with recursive and mutually-recursive functions and string manipulation (I spent ages perfecting the garbage collection). As for using it to create standard utilties for the native C compiler... I doubt it. Well, certainly not right now, mainly because the DPL compiler (and the language) are both designed for using Driver. Steve. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 13:44:12 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 13:39:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9501241302.AA11598@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 24, 95 02:02:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 372 Lines: 13 > > The fact that it's compressed. I had to hack the printer code to get it > > out... > > "Had to", or just didn't bother trying it the "proper" way? I wouldn't > have thought one would have too much difficulty in finding the compression > method. :-) Okay, so what's the proper way to hack something then?/?????? Answers on a postcard please? Simon From imc Tue Jan 24 13:58:24 1995 Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 13:58:24 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 24, 95 1:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 890 Lines: 16 On Tue, 24 Jan 1995 13:39:58 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > Okay, so what's the proper way to hack something then?/?????? > Answers on a postcard please? +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | : ~~~ | | : ! ! | | What I meant was why did you : ! 1! | | hack the printer driver instead: ~~~ | | of writing (or stealing) a : | | program to uncompress the code : to: sam-users, | | directly? : nvg.unit.no | | : | | Love Ian. : | +--------------------------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 14:37:55 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 14:29:08 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9501241358.AA11707@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 24, 95 02:58:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1145 Lines: 25 > On Tue, 24 Jan 1995 13:39:58 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > > Okay, so what's the proper way to hack something then?/?????? > > > Answers on a postcard please? > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > | : ~~~ | > | : ! ! | > | What I meant was why did you : ! 1! | > | hack the printer driver instead: ~~~ | > | of writing (or stealing) a : | > | program to uncompress the code : to: sam-users, | > | directly? : nvg.unit.no | > | : | > | Love Ian. : | > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > *rotfls* Thanks, I nearly fell of my chair when I saw that :) Okay, the reason was that it was easier than writing a program to uncompress the code directly. Just involved patching the printer stream. Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 14:38:34 1995 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Leeds Uni Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 15:31:01 CET From: Arne Di Russo Message-Id: <9501241531.aa00950@ax433.mclink.it> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 935 Lines: 27 Hi Daniel! >From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" >Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 09:16:00 PST > >> BTW isn't there someone else here in this mailing-list who's in Leeds? > >'fraid so! > >Dan Doore d.j.doore@lmu.ac.uk :) > ^^^ > Leeds Metropolitan University.... That's great! But why don't you have .leeds.ac.uk as address, I've seen that for Leeds University or is yours a different university? See you soon, Arne +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ | Arne Di Russo Internet..: mc8189@mclink.it ...leeds.ac.uk soon! | | Rome, Italy Fidonet...: 2:335/311.55 and 2:335/21.55 | | Voice.....: ++39/6/56338158 after 8pm CET | | ---- proud - SAM Coupe 512K - Psion Series 3 - GUS MAX - owner ---- | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 14:42:56 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: Postcards from the edge. Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 14:36:00 PST Message-Id: <2F257F63@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 19 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 932 Lines: 19 > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > | : ~~~ | > | : ! ! | > | What I meant was why did you : ! 1! | > | hack the printer driver instead: ~~~ | > | of writing (or stealing) a : | > | program to uncompress the code : to: sam-users, | > | directly? : nvg.unit.no | > | : | > | Love Ian. : | > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ Probably because it's a darn site quicker to play 'shift the ASCII character into memory' than prat about with bespoke compression code. Besides, it's easier too :-) Dan. From imc Tue Jan 24 14:49:03 1995 Subject: RE: Postcards from the edge. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 14:49:03 GMT In-Reply-To: <2F257F63@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 24, 95 2:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 417 Lines: 9 On Tue, 24 Jan 95 14:36:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > Probably because it's a darn site quicker to play 'shift the ASCII > character into memory' than prat about with bespoke compression code. Which brings us back to my original question which put forward the supposition that he didn't "have to" hack the printer code but it was less bother than formulating a routine to decompress the code... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 14:59:31 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: Leeds Uni Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 14:52:00 PST Message-Id: <2F25836E@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 27 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 709 Lines: 27 > >BTW isn't there someone else here in this mailing-list who's in Leeds? > > > >'fraid so! > > > >Dan Doore d.j.doore@lmu.ac.uk :) > > ^^^ > > Leeds Metropolitan University.... > > That's great! > But why don't you have .leeds.ac.uk as address, I've seen > that for Leeds University or is yours a different university? We are a different one, we used to be Leeds Poly but no longer! Incidentally, my address might as well be leeds.ac.uk since we use LU's link anyway (we are connected via a 64kbs link (boo hiss) but soon it's SuperJanet here we come!). See you down the Fenton for a pint! Dan. > > See you soon, > Arne > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 15:35:54 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: RFC docs... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 15:24:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 182 Lines: 8 Anyone know where there's a UK mirror of the RFC documents? Even better, if you can email me RFC1055, then I can get SLIP up and running tonight :) Oh, and RFC854 Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 15:36:36 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: Postcards from the edge. Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 15:24:00 PST Message-Id: <2F258AB9@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 17 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 563 Lines: 17 > On Tue, 24 Jan 95 14:36:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > > Probably because it's a darn site quicker to play 'shift the ASCII > > character into memory' than prat about with bespoke compression code. > > Which brings us back to my original question which put forward the > supposition that he didn't "have to" hack the printer code but it was > less bother than formulating a routine to decompress the code... Then why did you argue the case for writing or "stealing" the code? But that's just me being argumentative >:->> D. > imc > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 17:02:09 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9501241648.AA18033@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Mailing List To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (SAM users mailing list.) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 16:48:30 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 307 Lines: 11 I have tried to unsubscribe my DEC-ALPHA account from the SAM-USERS list, but it has sent me back a message saying that I am not registered. Could you remove my BS47A/B/BS41 account. I have resubscribed on my UNIX account - so that my pers does not annoy people anymore. Lord Blackadder From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 17:17:10 1995 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 16:30:03 +0000 In-Reply-To: simonc -- "Re: Where's everyone gone?" (Jan 20, 5:01pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Where's everyone gone? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 472 Lines: 12 On Jan 20, 5:01pm in "Re: Where's everyone gone?", you warbled: ] Don't listen to Maplins -- they're crap. Get a Farnell's catalogue Ummm... Maplins are _not_ crap. They're cheap, and they don't always know what they're talking about. However, you don't have to be a member to buy any of their stuff, and they include VAT in their catalogue prices (which is more than can be said for Farnell and RS). Geoff So who has dishes that are soft as your face? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 17:48:50 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501241734.AA26885@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 18:34:50 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 24, 95 02:29:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 658 Lines: 24 > *rotfls* > Thanks, I nearly fell of my chair when I saw that :) Hum.....you mean your workstation? > > Okay, the reason was that it was easier than writing a program to > uncompress the code directly. Just involved patching the printer stream. We were two to do it, so it MUST have been the 'right' solution, dont you think? :) > > Simon > > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 17:52:27 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501241749.AA27133@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Mailing List To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 18:49:33 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9501241648.AA18033@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> from "Lord Blackadder" at Jan 24, 95 04:48:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 850 Lines: 26 > > I have tried to unsubscribe my DEC-ALPHA account from the SAM-USERS list, > but it has sent me back a message saying that I am not registered. Could > you remove my BS47A/B/BS41 account. > > > I have resubscribed on my UNIX account - so that my pers does not annoy > people anymore. > I'm not quite sure if Arnt is reading this. All subscription/ unsub is handled automatically and it's Arnt who is doing the 'labour' right now. Mail agulbra@nvg.unit.no - include your account details (more than above). > > > Lord Blackadder > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 17:53:24 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501241740.AA26974@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Leeds Uni To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 18:40:01 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <2F25836E@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 24, 95 02:52:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 376 Lines: 10 > soon it's SuperJanet here we come!). ^^^^^ Is this some sort of subtle joke? :-) -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 19:40:59 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: SAM ROM Source code To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 19:27:20 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199501241734.AA26885@ulke.hiMolde.no> from "Frode Tennebo" at Jan 24, 95 06:34:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 487 Lines: 19 > > > *rotfls* > > Thanks, I nearly fell of my chair when I saw that :) > > Hum.....you mean your workstation? Nope -- remember, I do all this from either my SAM or a PC at umist ! ;) > > > > Okay, the reason was that it was easier than writing a program to > > uncompress the code directly. Just involved patching the printer stream. > > We were two to do it, so it MUST have been the 'right' solution, > dont you think? :) Seems to have been :) :) :) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 19:41:46 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: RFC docs... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 19:28:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 109 Lines: 5 Just writing to say thanks, and I've now got the RFC docs thanks to Andrew Birkett (I think....) Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 20:55:14 1995 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 17:17:11 +0000 From: "ANDREW.D.BIRKETT" <9458183@lewis.sms.edinburgh.ac.uk> Organization: Student Mail Service To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 17:12:57 +0000 Subject: Re: RFC docs... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-Id: <4B7B61B1A3E@lewis.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 201 Lines: 9 Hi there, > Even better, if you can email me RFC1055, then I can get SLIP up and > running tonight :) > Oh, and RFC854 Just to stop everyone sending a copy, I've done the deeds! Andrew. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 24 21:31:50 1995 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 21:15:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: SAM-users Subject: How many subscribers? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 431 Lines: 11 Just out of interest, how many people actually subscribe to this list? We only ever seem to hear from the same 1/2 dozen or so users. \\/// (o o) +----------------ooO-(_)-Ooo----------------+ | Steve Taylor sct1000@cam.ac.uk | | Pembroke College | | Cambridge CB2 1RF | +-------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 08:07:21 1995 Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 07:42:51 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6299@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Teledisk X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 283 Lines: 14 You are not using it in Windows are you? I can get mine to copy out in Windoes, but to make an image I need to be in real DOS. Teledisc can trample on vital RAM I know, it seems to like DOS high. I use Qemm which seems very stable. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 08:07:38 1995 Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 07:50:40 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6300@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Missing Sam X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 278 Lines: 9 Apparently the SAM Elute ordered before Xmas went off last week. There was a fault that needed fixing, and thats why a delay. Straight from Bob. Sorry, but I lost your Email address, so apologies to everyone else who has this message! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 08:07:39 1995 Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 07:39:29 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6298@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Graffiti X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 748 Lines: 38 In message <95012310220972@bsvms.staffs.ac.uk> "I've got an idea, and it's as hot as my pants!" writes: > > > >I have three MDVs and about 80 carts. Only 1 IF1 though. > > > >I am writing this on a swivel chair... > > > >Brian > > > I have 1 Microdrive and 2 carts ! > but no IF1? I actually had a call a month ago asking if IF1 would work on a SAM! > > My mother told me not to write on furniture! How does it connect to your > terminal? > You need good buttock control and balancing skills! > I suppose I will just have to stick with the keyboard. > > > > Lord B' > > > P.S Will we ever see the Cherry Swival Chair??? :) > Be a bit messy I would think... Brian > -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 08:07:57 1995 Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 07:58:36 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6301@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: RFC docs... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 148 Lines: 7 DEmon are supposed to have an RFC mirror, I will have to check. They are really good at hiding things! :-) Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 09:53:14 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: SAM-users Subject: RE: How many subscribers? Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 09:50:00 PST Message-Id: <2F268DD3@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 11 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 287 Lines: 11 > Just out of interest, how many people actually subscribe to this list? We > only ever seem to hear from the same 1/2 dozen or so users. So who's fault is that? Try mailing 'majordomo@nvg.unit.no' with 'who sam-users' in the subject line, that will tell you. Dan Doore From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 11:43:20 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: SAM-users Subject: RE: How many subscribers? Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 11:33:00 PST Message-Id: <2F26A616@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 12 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 201 Lines: 12 > Try mailing 'majordomo@nvg.unit.no' with 'who sam-users' in > the subject line, that will tell you. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ I lied, it should be in the body text... Dan. > Dan Doore > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 12:19:35 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Sam Users - The naked truth Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 12:13:00 PST Message-Id: <2F26AF85@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 63 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1710 Lines: 63 Here is the current list of sam pods... If your address is on here with no name, please fill it in as it is nice to know who you are sending out to. (If you do, please don't 'RE:' the whole doc back, just the relevant line) This is just for me really so you can just mail it to me instead of the forum, but Frode, Arnt & the others might like to know as well. Dan. People who write often and who say who they are: Colin Piggot - cgp@st-andrews.ac.uk Frode Tennebo - frodet@ulke.dhmolde.no frodet@nvg.unit.no Simon Cooke - simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk Dan Doore - D.J.Doore@lmu.ac.uk Lord Blackadder - cm3hdlt@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk Lord B again? - cm3hdlt%bs41.dnet.ac.uk@bsps1.staffs.ac.uk Brian Gaff - briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk Arne Di Russo - mc8189@mclink.it Ian Collier - Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk People who's name I know but don't write much :) Tim Paverley - tsp93@ecs.soton.ac.uk Graham Goring - goringgn@aston.ac.uk Mat of ESI - mat@pltumk11.bitnet Geoff Winkless - gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk Nigel Kettleworth - nigket@dcs.warwick.ac.uk Those with no fornames/surnames... P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk K.Turner@ucl.ac.uk allan@hpopb1.cern.ch partingr@cs.man.ac.uk Who are you: SAM-LIST@phoenix.centron.com ? I'm intrigued... :-) People who's mail addresses are so cryptic, I dunno: sl92@ecs.soton.ac.uk slawek@namu01.gwdg.de lamp@dcs.edinburgh.ac.uk 9458183@lewis.sms.edinburgh.ac.uk SALAJKA@EARN.CVUT.CZ gianni.zamperini@galactica.it mcscs3cgm@dct.ac.uk gme@dl.ac.uk U9350276@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk tgog@STUDENT.ucc.ie sct1000@hermes.cam.ac.uk glb2@le.ac.uk From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 12:24:39 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <11764.9501251211@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: How many subscribers? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 12:11:18 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Steve Taylor" at Jan 24, 95 09:15:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 382 Lines: 14 To Quote Steve Taylor : > > Just out of interest, how many people actually subscribe to this list? We > only ever seem to hear from the same 1/2 dozen or so users. > I do, it's just that it's way over my head so I never comment on any of it. Tim -- Tim Paveley - University of Southampton Sam Coupe Web Pages: http://whig.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93/Coupe/home.html From imc Wed Jan 25 12:29:52 1995 Subject: Re: Sam Users - The naked truth To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 12:29:52 GMT In-Reply-To: <2F26AF85@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 25, 95 12:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 661 Lines: 31 On Wed, 25 Jan 95 12:13:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > Who are you: SAM-LIST@phoenix.centron.com ? That looks like Johnathan Taylor (hi! :-) ), given that he isn't anywhere else on your list and centron.com is his system... > People who's mail addresses are so cryptic, I dunno: See what a little research can do... > slawek@namu01.gwdg.de should be in the category of people without surname/forename. > 9458183@lewis.sms.edinburgh.ac.uk Andrew D. Birkett > mcscs3cgm@dct.ac.uk Colin MacDonald > U9350276@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk Identified only as "Creature Feature!" > sct1000@hermes.cam.ac.uk Steve Taylor imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 12:41:15 1995 Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 12:29:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam Users - The naked truth In-Reply-To: <2F26AF85@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 494 Lines: 19 On Wed, 25 Jan 1995, Doore, Daniel [MIS] wrote: > People who's mail addresses are so cryptic, I dunno: > > > mcscs3cgm@dct.ac.uk Colin MacDonald (I think) > sct1000@hermes.cam.ac.uk Me! \\/// (o o) +----------------ooO-(_)-Ooo----------------+ | Steve Taylor sct1000@cam.ac.uk | | Pembroke College | | Cambridge CB2 1RF | +-------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 12:59:41 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: More on pods. Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 12:51:00 PST Message-Id: <2F26B89F@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 25 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 582 Lines: 25 The remaining few: If these are you, or you know who they are, mail d.j.doore@lmu.ac.uk and NOT the forum (I see a lot of duplicate mail otherwise and I don't mind too much but everybody else would). Ta. Dan. ------------ P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk K.Turner@ucl.ac.uk allan@hpopb1.cern.ch partingr@cs.man.ac.uk sl92@ecs.soton.ac.uk slawek@namu01.gwdg.de lamp@dcs.edinburgh.ac.uk SALAJKA@EARN.CVUT.CZ gianni.zamperini@galactica.it gme@dl.ac.uk U9350276@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk - Creature Feature ??? tgog@STUDENT.ucc.ie glb2@le.ac.uk From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 13:10:09 1995 Message-Id: <40783.9501251303@rs6-svr-1.cls-1.bcc.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Sam Users - The naked truth To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:03:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Mr Keith Turner In-Reply-To: <2F26AF85@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 25, 95 12:13:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 216 Lines: 11 > K.Turner@ucl.ac.uk Ah, now that would be me. Some of you might have met me at Gloucester last year. I was asking about writing software for Driver, and looking for Bob. / To: sam-users Subject: Sam Users - The naked truth Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 13:12:00 PST Message-Id: <2F26BE13@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 16 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 338 Lines: 16 Shit. I just sent this to 'sam-users-owner'. Lets try aging shall we.... ---------- > See what a little research can do... > > imc Cheers Ian, I would do it myself but having bugger all but mail, it is hard to finger people (you can quote me on that :-) and it would have taken all bastard day using InfoBot. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 13:54:00 1995 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:24:53 +0000 In-Reply-To: D.J.Doore -- "More on pods." (Jan 25, 12:51pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: More on pods. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 196 Lines: 12 >From memory, you understand ] P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk Paul Finn ] allan@hpopb1.cern.ch Allan Skillman Geoff So who has dishes that are soft as your face? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 14:13:21 1995 From: Robert Partington Message-Id: <9501251406.AA00622@n4d.cs.man.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Sam Users - The naked truth To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 14:06:55 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <2F26AF85@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 25, 95 12:13:00 pm Risc-Header: ARMed X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 105 Lines: 5 partingr@cs.man.ac.uk -> Rob Partington :) That's me BTW But I prefer to be known as Phaedrus... From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 14:26:43 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: The Latest.... Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 14:16:00 PST Message-Id: <2F26CC60@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 20 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 470 Lines: 20 The remaining few, only 8 to go!: If these are you, or you know who they are, mail d.j.doore@lmu.ac.uk and NOT the forum (I see a lot of duplicate mail otherwise and I don't mind too much but everybody else would). Ta. Dan. ------------ partingr@cs.man.ac.uk slawek@namu01.gwdg.de lamp@dcs.edinburgh.ac.uk SALAJKA@EARN.CVUT.CZ gianni.zamperini@galactica.it gme@dl.ac.uk U9350276@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk - Creature Feature ??? tgog@STUDENT.ucc.ie From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 14:41:34 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199501251437.AA03870@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: The Latest.... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 15:37:20 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <2F26CC60@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 25, 95 02:16:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 615 Lines: 24 > partingr@cs.man.ac.uk > slawek@namu01.gwdg.de Slawomir Grodkowski > lamp@dcs.edinburgh.ac.uk > SALAJKA@EARN.CVUT.CZ > gianni.zamperini@galactica.it Sounds like Gianni Zamperini to me.... :) > gme@dl.ac.uk > U9350276@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk - Creature Feature ??? > tgog@STUDENT.ucc.ie Waw...Ireland too... -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 14:56:21 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: The Latest.... Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 14:46:00 PST Message-Id: <2F26D397@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 8 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 141 Lines: 8 > > gianni.zamperini@galactica.it > > Sounds like Gianni Zamperini to me.... :) Okay, so I had brain failure on that one :) Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 16:01:25 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: And then there were two... Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 15:52:00 PST Message-Id: <2F26E2B9@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 20 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 503 Lines: 20 These two are the only ones left.... SALAJKA@EARN.CVUT.CZ Finger results : [EARN.CVUT.CZ] connect: Connection refused imc tried and said : I don't think we can get past an Earn node... tgog@STUDENT.ucc.ie Finger results : unknown host: STUDENT.ucc.ie imc tried and said : That domain exists but doesn't seem to have any machines in it. Do these people exist? If it's you SAY SO! I will post the complete list on sam-users tomorrow morning. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 16:16:33 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Sam Users - The naked truth To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 16:07:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <2F26AF85@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 25, 95 12:13:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 374 Lines: 15 > P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk Paul Finn I think... > > Who are you: SAM-LIST@phoenix.centron.com ? > > I'm intrigued... :-) SAM-LIST is a group of people who all subscribe to SAM-USERS via the centronics bbs... I think SAM-USERS may be gated onto a local fidonet group there... :) It's thanks to Jonathan Taylor too.. Simon Cooke From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 16:29:10 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: Sam Users - The naked truth Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 16:20:00 PST Message-Id: <2F26E943@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 13 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 302 Lines: 13 > SAM-LIST is a group of people who all subscribe to SAM-USERS via the > centronics bbs... I think SAM-USERS may be gated onto a local fidonet > group there... :) It's thanks to Jonathan Taylor too.. Any chance of some info as to who subscribes to that list? Dan. > Simon Cooke > > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 16:36:37 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: Sam Users - The naked truth Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 16:20:00 PST Message-Id: <2F26E943@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 13 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 302 Lines: 13 > SAM-LIST is a group of people who all subscribe to SAM-USERS via the > centronics bbs... I think SAM-USERS may be gated onto a local fidonet > group there... :) It's thanks to Jonathan Taylor too.. Any chance of some info as to who subscribes to that list? Dan. > Simon Cooke > > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 25 19:26:28 1995 From: DAVID ZAMBONINI To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 19:05:53 GMT Subject: Not much, really.. Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-Id: <91EF01727B@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 196 Lines: 4 Well, I'm finally on the sam users mailing list. Just thought you might like to know. Oh, I've emailed Zilog for specs. on the Z280. Does anybody want to comment on what my chances are.? :) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 26 08:27:03 1995 From: slawek@namu01.gwdg.de Message-Id: <9501260825.AA02893@namu01.gwdg.de> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Cc: slawek@namu01.gwdg.de Subject: Re: Re: Sam Users... Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 09:25:11 +0100 X-Mts: smtp Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 169 Lines: 10 Hi , For all , my fully name and Address is : Slawomir Grodkowski Wolfgang-Doering-Str. 11 37077 Goettingen Germany and I am only a `tiny` Sam owner ..... From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 26 08:36:22 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Almost complete list of Sam Users.. Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 08:34:00 PST Message-Id: <2F27CDAD@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 51 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1766 Lines: 51 Sam Users SMTP Address --------- ------------------------------ Colin Piggot - cgp@st-andrews.ac.uk Frode Tennebo - frodet@ulke.dhmolde.no frodet@nvg.unit.no Simon Cooke - simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk Dan Doore - D.J.Doore@lmu.ac.uk Lord Blackadder - cm3hdlt@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk - cm3hdlt%bs41.dnet.ac.uk@bsps1.staffs.ac.uk Brian Gaff - briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk Arne Di Russo - mc8189@mclink.it Ian Collier - Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk Tim Paveley - tsp93@ecs.soton.ac.uk Graham Goring - goringgn@aston.ac.uk Mat of ESI - mat@pltumk11.bitnet Geoff Winkless - gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk Nigel Kettleworth - nigket@dcs.warwick.ac.uk Johnathan Taylor - SAM-LIST@phoenix.centron.com (Possible gateway to Fidonet) Andrew D. Birkett - 9458183@lewis.sms.edinburgh.ac.uk Colin MacDonald - mcscs3cgm@dct.ac.uk Steve Taylor - sct1000@hermes.cam.ac.uk Stephen Longhurst - sl92@ecs.soton.ac.uk Graham Burtenshaw - glb2@le.ac.uk Keith Turner - K.Turner@ucl.ac.uk Paul Finn - P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk Allan Skillman - allan@hpopb1.cern.ch Robert Partington - partingr@cs.man.ac.uk Gianni Zamperini - gianni.zamperini@galactica.it George Smith - U9350276@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk G.M. Ellis - gme@dl.ac.uk Slawomir Grodkowski - slawek@namu01.gwdg.de Lucien Murray-Pitts - lamp@dcs.edinburgh.ac.uk Remaining unknowns ------------------ SALAJKA@EARN.CVUT.CZ tgog@STUDENT.ucc.ie Credits: List complied by Dan Doore Contributions from: Ian Collier, Tim Paveley, Geoff Winkless, Steve Taylor & Frode Tennebo. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 26 10:00:28 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Almost complete list of Sam Users.. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 09:55:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <2F27CDAD@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 26, 95 08:34:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1878 Lines: 54 > > > Sam Users SMTP Address > --------- ------------------------------ > > Colin Piggot - cgp@st-andrews.ac.uk > Frode Tennebo - frodet@ulke.dhmolde.no > frodet@nvg.unit.no > Simon Cooke - simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk > Dan Doore - D.J.Doore@lmu.ac.uk > Lord Blackadder - cm3hdlt@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk > - cm3hdlt%bs41.dnet.ac.uk@bsps1.staffs.ac.uk > Brian Gaff - briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk > Arne Di Russo - mc8189@mclink.it > Ian Collier - Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk > Tim Paveley - tsp93@ecs.soton.ac.uk > Graham Goring - goringgn@aston.ac.uk > Mat of ESI - mat@pltumk11.bitnet > Geoff Winkless - gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk > Nigel Kettleworth - nigket@dcs.warwick.ac.uk > Johnathan Taylor - SAM-LIST@phoenix.centron.com > (Possible gateway to Fidonet) > Andrew D. Birkett - 9458183@lewis.sms.edinburgh.ac.uk > Colin MacDonald - mcscs3cgm@dct.ac.uk > Steve Taylor - sct1000@hermes.cam.ac.uk > Stephen Longhurst - sl92@ecs.soton.ac.uk > Graham Burtenshaw - glb2@le.ac.uk > Keith Turner - K.Turner@ucl.ac.uk > Paul Finn - P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk > Allan Skillman - allan@hpopb1.cern.ch > Robert Partington - partingr@cs.man.ac.uk > Gianni Zamperini - gianni.zamperini@galactica.it > George Smith - U9350276@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk > G.M. Ellis - gme@dl.ac.uk > Slawomir Grodkowski - slawek@namu01.gwdg.de > Lucien Murray-Pitts - lamp@dcs.edinburgh.ac.uk > > > Remaining unknowns > ------------------ > > SALAJKA@EARN.CVUT.CZ > tgog@STUDENT.ucc.ie > > > > Credits: > > List complied by Dan Doore > Contributions from: Ian Collier, Tim Paveley, Geoff Winkless, > Steve Taylor & Frode Tennebo. > > From imc Thu Jan 26 12:36:11 1995 Subject: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 12:36:11 GMT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 368 Lines: 12 Now I have just received some files from ftp.nvg.unit.no so I can try them out. However, I would like to know what software I need in order to be able to read the following types of file: .pak .lcb .arc (or maybe these files are self-extracting). (Why use files in these formats at all when you can zip them just before you put them on ftp?). imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 26 12:39:43 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Cc: Frode Tennebo , goringgn , "Ian.Collier" , simonc , Tim Paveley Subject: The Final Cut. Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 12:25:00 PST Message-Id: <2F2803C1@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 55 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1987 Lines: 55 Right, this is pretty much definitive now so this is it's final incarnation, I hope it will be helpful to you all. Credits: List complied by Dan Doore Contributions from: Ian Collier, Tim Paveley, Geoff Winkless, Steve Taylor, Ingrid Ledererova & Frode Tennebo. Here we go.... Sam Users SMTP Address --------- ------------------------------ Colin Piggot - cgp@st-andrews.ac.uk Frode Tennebo - frodet@ulke.dhmolde.no frodet@nvg.unit.no Simon Cooke - simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk Dan Doore - D.J.Doore@lmu.ac.uk Lord Blackadder - cm3hdlt@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk - cm3hdlt%bs41.dnet.ac.uk@bsps1.staffs.ac.uk Brian Gaff - briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk Arne Di Russo - mc8189@mclink.it Ian Collier - Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk Tim Paveley - tsp93@ecs.soton.ac.uk Graham Goring - goringgn@aston.ac.uk Mat of ESI - mat@pltumk11.bitnet Geoff Winkless - gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk Nigel Kettleworth - nigket@dcs.warwick.ac.uk Johnathan Taylor - SAM-LIST@phoenix.centron.com (Possible gateway to Fidonet) Andrew D. Birkett - 9458183@lewis.sms.edinburgh.ac.uk Colin MacDonald - mcscs3cgm@dct.ac.uk Steve Taylor - sct1000@hermes.cam.ac.uk Stephen Longhurst - sl92@ecs.soton.ac.uk Graham Burtenshaw - glb2@le.ac.uk Keith Turner - K.Turner@ucl.ac.uk Paul Finn - P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk Allan Skillman - allan@hpopb1.cern.ch Robert Partington - partingr@cs.man.ac.uk Gianni Zamperini - gianni.zamperini@galactica.it George Smith - U9350276@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk G.M. Ellis - gme@dl.ac.uk Salajka Milan - SALAJKA@EARN.CVUT.CZ David Zambonini - SPX3DMZ@CARDIFF.AC.UK Slawomir Grodkowski - slawek@namu01.gwdg.de Lucien Murray-Pitts - lamp@dcs.edinburgh.ac.uk Remaining unknown pod --------------------- tgog@STUDENT.ucc.ie From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 26 13:52:19 1995 From: DAVID ZAMBONINI To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 13:45:22 GMT Subject: .Z80 files Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 208 Lines: 7 Does anybody want a little conversion program I wrote last night to decompress and run .Z80 files on a sam? There will be a two way .SNA and .Z80 convertor coming soon... DMZ (David Zambonini) === From imc Thu Jan 26 13:54:12 1995 Subject: Re: .Z80 files To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 13:54:13 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "DAVID ZAMBONINI" at Jan 26, 95 1:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 218 Lines: 7 On Thu, 26 Jan 1995 13:45:22 GMT, DAVID ZAMBONINI said: > Does anybody want a little conversion program I wrote last night to > decompress and run .Z80 files on a sam? Presumably not 128K .Z80 files?... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 26 17:43:12 1995 From: DAVID ZAMBONINI To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 17:30:50 GMT Subject: Re: .Z80 files Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 434 Lines: 12 Well, with respects to the .Z80 convertor, it will handle V2.00 and above files (i.e. the 128K emulation capability files) , but it will only run the 48K ones... I could decode the 128K into memory, but I ain't writing a 128K emulator.. :) The V1.00 decoder I wrote previously last night wouldn't decompress Chaos.. :) Oh, I'm merely using a Spectrum ROM image with modified messenger type software, btw. DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 07:53:30 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 26 Jan 95 23:22:19 +0000 Subject: Sam Users - The naked truth Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1638 Lines: 43 On (25 Jan 95) D.J.Doore@lmu.ac.uk wrote to All... > From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" > Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 16:20:00 PST >> SAM-LIST is a group of people who all subscribe to SAM-USERS via the >> centronics bbs... I think SAM-USERS may be gated onto a local fidonet >> group there... :) It's thanks to Jonathan Taylor too.. It's really setup for me so that this lists output goes to a distinct message area rather than clogging up my private email-box BUT can be opened up to Fidonet.... > Any chance of some info as to who subscribes to that list? At the moment just me but it (and the rest of USENET newsgroups) can be made available to users of Fido technology mailers that donate a small renumeration towards running costs of the entire BBS system. IF majordomo was able to accept persons FQDN and an alternate mail-route where they want their subscription sent it would make life a bit easier ie I write as jet@centron.com and read via SAM-LIST@phoenix.centron.com Brian has setup a new alias for the list ie briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk I believe Si' also goes by a different FQDN for the list than his usual FQDN NB centron.com is NOT my system, I'm just a CoSysop helping out where I can. Really I should have my own machine name added to my FQDN but I've not got the imagination to think up one that I like) Regards Johnathan. > Dan. > Simon Cooke ... New Mail not found. Start whine-pout sequence? (Y/N) -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 07:53:31 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 27 Jan 95 05:14:50 +0000 Subject: Sam RS232 comms Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2474 Lines: 62 On (23 Jan 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote to All... > From: Simon Cooke > Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 19:26:03 +0000 (GMT) > Understood, but it seems to work as it is... I'll think about it :) I've > gone pretty modular with this code anyway, so it shouldn't make too much > of a difference... Exessive interupt over-heads will be apparrent by screen output being noticably slowed down whilst data is comming in at high-speed and sudden emptying of the ISR ring-buffer and fast printing when the other end stops sending after a screen full. [Screen handling] > Okay.... I can understand that this would work, but you might get slight > screen glitches. At the moment I use a string of 1024 LDI's in a loop to > clear the screen -- it'll be replaced with a starting XOR A followed by a > string of LD (HL),A:INC L's... Interupts during a PUSH HL... style CLS routine don't corrupt the screen as on an interupt the PC and whatever reg's get pushed onto the stack which does cause momentry blobs BUT they're popped back off afterwards and the next CLS's PUSH HL's erase the blobs.... The only thing to watchout for is IF an interupt occours just after the final PUSH HL at the top of the screen (as viewed on-screen) then we'd have to make sure we don't have any important data there.. > Ahhhhh.... understood... actually I've planned for this with a script > command called ECHO -- it can be ON or OFF. In ON mode, all incoming data > goes to the screen via the terminal processor. Terminal modes can be > decided on using TERMINAL "term.file" -- where term.file is the terminal > type overlay file you want to use... Fine, a sort of debug mode:-) > The scripts will be compiled anyway, so it should make things quite nice > and fast... Vroooooom.......... > [Sam Fax] > It'll take some time as they're on Fidonet, I'll get right on it:-) > (I hope the docs aren't too big;-) > Excellent! No response as yet... The mailer frontend that I'm using on this PeeCee has an earlier versions C source available and may have the Fax receive functions in it as it can receive raw Fax T.4 files itself! I'll get hold off the source tomorrow and have a look see:-) Regards Johnathan ... while(!asleep()) sheep++; -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 07:53:38 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 27 Jan 95 04:42:58 +0000 Subject: Jonathan's comms int mod... Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4939 Lines: 103 On (24 Jan 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote... > From: Simon Cooke > Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:49:45 +0000 (GMT) > I'll check with Martin... it may be the same mod and I'm getting mixed > up, but it didn't work before we did it, and only worked when we had > restored the cut track *and* had the diode in place as you describe as > well... How odd.. What's the problem Si? have you got a new comms-int that needed patching but all didn't go to plan or somthing? > *grins* Don't you just love it. I wish that Bruce had just done the ASIC > and everyone else had mulled around on the board -- the sam would have > been released much earlier and perhaps would have been less buggy in > these respects -- no disrespect to bruce there though. I agree, but that would've held back the launch and their creditiors would've probably called in the debt before the Sam ever made it into the world:-( Though Appart from the lack of 8MHz clock signal to the FDC chips and no CPU clock during ASIC reset what are the other problems with the mother-board? I havn't noticed anything else! > Funny you should mention this -- last night I connected the SAM to the PC > and saw what happened -- lost chars all over the place due to the PC's > dodgy hardware flow control. All I can say is... What a chip the IM26C91 > is! I think all the hardware flow-control on PeeCee's is emulated in software and that the 8250 & 16550 operate in DUMB mode ie they'll send chars regardless of the other ends CTS status! As such they tend to be at least 1character late at halting the Tx stream and with the Fifo'd 16550 it probably continues to send until its 16byte Tx-fifo is emptied! I know that some Interupt driven UART drivers on PeeCee's actually drop RTS when the interupt buffer is only 3/4ths full to make sure the sender has enough space to over-run it's RTS signalling! And only releases RTS when the buffer get's to the half-full level! Though the 26C9x chips arn't perfect as propgation delay over a few meters at 115200 baud would cause the automatic flow-control to arrive at the transmitter too late to stop the next char... but it's certainly better than any xxx50 UART's:-) Note you can get 2692 & 2694 chips that contain 2 & 4 of these UART's! I have the data of the dual UART version and it adds an Extra function that can implement a Rx Time-out interupt function for all those transfer protocols etc... One could program a background file transfer function that runs totally on the UART interupts! > If the above works then it might allow SAM to receive at 115200baud I > mentioned in a previous message about commix;-) > Hmmmmm........ That got you thinking eh? Ever get the feeling that I like to keep the odd little suprise up my sleeve to spice things up every now and then? > If only /my/ SAM (as opposed to Martin's) had a working keyboard and a > working drive. I don't want one of the dodgy ones from West Coast though... Get a cheap PC keyboard and strip it down.... then re-wire the switch-matrix to match the SAM keyboard, and re-label the keys that don't match up! As to the Floppies... Well Si, you *could* take your broken internal drive and remove the fdc pcb... knock up a simple converter pcb that can then be plugged into a normal External 3.5" drive via a normal 34way ribbon, all the control lines are there and there's also +5V & 0V for lines that need to be pulled up or down... Just in case you or anyone else tries this... Use the /MOTOR line as both the floppies /MOTOR line AND the /Drive-select line. Much tidier than the external FDC's tying the floppies /drive-select perminantly low which leaves the drive LED on all the time! I havn't done this adaption, but I think I will in the near future to free up another external bus-slot;-) > Actually, we're trying to get the High Density drive working soon... > we've made the PCB for the SAM Hard Drive (v0.2) now, and we'll post > laser-printed acetates to you (jonathan) as well as a guide to what > chip's where) in the near future... Me? 'h' missing again, it's Johnathan;-) ^ > I assume that you /can/ photoetch pcbs? :) Not at the Mo' but rest assured it wouldn't take me long to get the gear;-) Cheers! I'll probably have 99% of required components here already on numorous old PCB's;-) and I've got 6 x 64way EuroPlugs too! So the only things I expect I'll need to buy would be the photo-resist coated copper-clad boards and the IDE plug and leads(got an old UV Suntan lamp somwhere that'll do the UV exposure;-) regards Johnathan. ... Teamwork is essential it allows you to blame someone else -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 09:36:01 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9501270930.AA01732@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 09:30:05 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9501261236.AA04436@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 26, 95 01:36:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 580 Lines: 19 > > Now I have just received some files from ftp.nvg.unit.no so I can try them > out. However, I would like to know what software I need in order to be > able to read the following types of file: > > .pak > .lcb > .arc *.arc - my fault, sorry. I did send a message to the effect that these are just files compressed with the rumsoft archiver. I have been using that extension on my SAM for ages. It was the first time I had uploaded something, and didn't really think about it. Next time I have something, I will zip it first. Lord B' (humble) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 10:16:50 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501271010.AA29356@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 11:10:37 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9501261236.AA04436@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 26, 95 01:36:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 698 Lines: 19 > (or maybe these files are self-extracting). (Why use files in these formats > at all when you can zip them just before you put them on ftp?). Bacause, when you use SAM archives instead of PC archives (like zip), you only have to worry about transferring one file from the PC-disk to the SAM-disk instead of a whole bundle, as you would have when you unzip the stuff to a PC disk. > > imc > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 10:19:05 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501271012.AA29395@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: .Z80 files To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 11:12:30 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "DAVID ZAMBONINI" at Jan 26, 95 01:45:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 575 Lines: 23 > > Does anybody want a little conversion program I wrote last night to > decompress and run .Z80 files on a sam? Don't ask. Just upload the stuff! :) > > There will be a two way .SNA and .Z80 convertor coming soon... That too! > > DMZ (David Zambonini) > === > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 10:49:54 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 11:42:22 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<12733.9501271042@sun.aston.ac.u] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: NVG site From: goringgn Message-Id: <12733.9501271042@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: NVG site X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 346 Lines: 7 Has anybody downloaded the best of kapsa, from the incoming directory and listened to the intro music on the menu. It has got to be the best peice of chip music I have EVER heard, and I advise you to download it just for the music. Graham - Who enjoys pointing out petty little things to any people. F'rinstance, Cookie? Games? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 10:50:45 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501271044.AA30000@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: NVG site To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 11:44:50 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <12733.9501271042@sun.aston.ac.uk> from "goringgn" at Jan 27, 95 11:42:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 749 Lines: 21 > > Has anybody downloaded the best of kapsa, from the incoming directory and > listened to the intro music on the menu. It has got to be the best peice > of chip music I have EVER heard, and I advise you to download it just for > the music. Argh! Why did I leave my SAM back home? Anybody wants to sample it in .au format??? ;) > > Graham - Who enjoys pointing out petty little things to any people. > F'rinstance, Cookie? Games? > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 11:04:36 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 11:52:15 MET From: Milan Salajka Subject: Re: NVG site To: Sam Users In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 27 Jan 1995 11:42:22 +0100 from Message-Id: <"alfie.uib..994:27.00.95.10.56.41"@uib.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 371 Lines: 12 > Has anybody downloaded the best of kapsa, from the incoming directory and > listened to the intro music on the menu. It has got to be the best peice > of chip music I have EVER heard, and I advise you to download it just for > the music. This music was composed in Sam's ProTracker 1.5. All musics from this program sounds very good. :) > Graham Milan From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 11:21:26 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 12:18:50 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<12793.9501271118@sun.aston.ac.u] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: NVG site From: goringgn Message-Id: <12793.9501271118@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: NVG site X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 509 Lines: 14 >> Has anybody downloaded the best of kapsa, from the incoming directory and >> listened to the intro music on the menu. It has got to be the best peice >> of chip music I have EVER heard, and I advise you to download it just for >> the music. > >This music was composed in Sam's ProTracker 1.5. All musics from this >program sounds very good. :) > >> Graham > >Milan Wow! The foreign version of E-tracker. How easy it to use, in my opinion E-tracker can be a right arse to get to grips with. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 11:34:09 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Sample-tracker or chewy bar? Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 11:25:00 PST Message-Id: <2F294740@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 24 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 674 Lines: 24 > >> Has anybody downloaded the best of kapsa, from the incoming directory and > >> listened to the intro music on the menu. It has got to be the best peice > >> of chip music I have EVER heard, and I advise you to download it just for > >> the music. > > > >This music was composed in Sam's ProTracker 1.5. All musics from this > >program sounds very good. :) > > > >> Graham > > > >Milan > > Wow! The foreign version of E-tracker. How easy it to use, in my opinion > E-tracker can be a right arse to get to grips with. > Sounds like a foreign version of Pro-Tracker to me :) but does it use proper samples as instruments or what? Dan Doore. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 11:48:07 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 12:45:52 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<12865.9501271145@sun.aston.ac.u] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Sample-tr... From: goringgn Message-Id: <12865.9501271145@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sample-tracker or chewy bar? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 900 Lines: 30 > > >> Has anybody downloaded the best of kapsa, from the incoming directory > and > > >> listened to the intro music on the menu. It has got to be the best > peice > > >> of chip music I have EVER heard, and I advise you to download it just > for > > >> the music. > > > > > >This music was composed in Sam's ProTracker 1.5. All musics from this > > >program sounds very good. :) > > > > > >> Graham > > > > > >Milan > > > > Wow! The foreign version of E-tracker. How easy it to use, in my opinion > > E-tracker can be a right arse to get to grips with. > > > > Sounds like a foreign version of Pro-Tracker to me :) > but does it use proper samples as instruments or what? > > Dan Doore. > Heck no, it's CHIP music. Just like E-tracker. In fact when I first heard the tune I thought it was so E-trackery (know what I mean?) that it had to be E-tracker. Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 11:57:00 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 12:37:48 MET From: Milan Salajka Subject: Re: Sample-tracker or chewy bar? To: sam-users In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 27 Jan 95 11:25:00 PST from Message-Id: <"alfie.uib..311:27.00.95.11.44.33"@uib.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 653 Lines: 18 > >>This music was composed in Sam's ProTracker 1.5. All musics from this > >>program sounds very good. :) > >Wow! The foreign version of E-tracker. How easy it to use, in my opinion > >E-tracker can be a right arse to get to grips with. > Sounds like a foreign version of Pro-Tracker to me :) > but does it use proper samples as instruments or what? > Dan Doore. Hmmm, ProTracker isn't just other version of E-Tracker. It's completly other program not from ESI. It looks like a original amiga's protracker, it has got the same commands... It doesn't use samples, but it has got very good and useable 'sample' editor. Milan From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 12:08:45 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: Sample-tracker or chewy bar? Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 11:58:00 PST Message-Id: <2F294F04@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 20 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 517 Lines: 20 > > Sounds like a foreign version of Pro-Tracker to me :) > > but does it use proper samples as instruments or what? > > > > Dan Doore. > > > > Heck no, it's CHIP music. Just like E-tracker. In fact when I first heard > the tune I thought it was so E-trackery (know what I mean?) that it had > to be E-tracker. > > Graham Doh! my dreams shattered! Yep, I know what you mean about e-trackery, a bit like the Sound Machine tunes (remember them!) - you could tell those from Sunderland :) Dan. From imc Fri Jan 27 12:09:39 1995 Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 12:09:39 GMT In-Reply-To: <9501270930.AA01732@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk>; from "Lord Blackadder" at Jan 27, 95 9:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 924 Lines: 19 On Fri, 27 Jan 1995 09:30:05 +0000 (GMT), Lord Blackadder said: > *.arc - my fault, sorry. I did send a message to the effect that these > are just files compressed with the rumsoft archiver. Yes you did, but as I have never heard of a rumsoft archiver that doesn't help much... Incidentally, I have found out by experiment that if I load the *.pak files at 32000 and call 32000, they decompress and save themselves. If I load the "tiff.lcb" file at 32768 and call it, it appears to decompress itself (judging by the stripey screen), but I have no ide what to do after that. Incidentally, does anyone know what on earth "tiff.lcb" is? I have found that the files from lord bladders look like the *.pak files, but if I load them at 32000 and call 32000 then all that happens is that the machine crashes, or, occasionally, says "bad checksum". Did you transfer them in the correct binary mode? imc From imc Fri Jan 27 12:12:33 1995 Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 12:12:33 GMT In-Reply-To: <199501271010.AA29356@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Jan 27, 95 11:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 502 Lines: 11 On Fri, 27 Jan 1995 11:10:37 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > Bacause, when you use SAM archives instead of PC archives (like > zip), you only have to worry about transferring one file from the > PC-disk to the SAM-disk instead of a whole bundle, as you would have when you > unzip the stuff to a PC disk. That's not the sort of thing *I* worry about. :-) All I have to do is create a new directory in /tmp to unzip the things to, then I write them all at once on to a Sam disk... imc From imc Fri Jan 27 12:14:02 1995 Subject: Re: NVG site To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 12:14:02 GMT In-Reply-To: <199501271044.AA30000@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Jan 27, 95 11:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 267 Lines: 9 On Fri, 27 Jan 1995 11:44:50 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > > Has anybody downloaded the best of kapsa, > Argh! Why did I leave my SAM back home? Anybody wants to sample > it in .au format??? ;) I would, but I *still* can't use .td0 files... ;-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 12:18:19 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: Sample-tracker or chewy bar? Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 12:06:00 PST Message-Id: <2F2950D2@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 17 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 525 Lines: 17 > > Sounds like a foreign version of Pro-Tracker to me :) > > but does it use proper samples as instruments or what? > > > Dan Doore. > > Hmmm, ProTracker isn't just other version of E-Tracker. It's completly > other program not from ESI. It looks like a original amiga's protracker, > it has got the same commands... It doesn't use samples, but it has got > very good and useable 'sample' editor. > > Milan Does it bear any resembalance to E-Tracker 2.x, cos that had a 'sample' editor in it. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 12:30:48 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501271221.AA02306@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: NVG site To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 13:21:49 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9501271214.AA05779@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 27, 95 01:14:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 591 Lines: 19 > > Argh! Why did I leave my SAM back home? Anybody wants to sample > > it in .au format??? ;) > > I would, but I *still* can't use .td0 files... ;-) OK! You take 1 PC, 1 copy of Teledisc (which you'll find on various simtel mirrors), 1 blank disc and about 5 minutes. Voila! > > imc > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From imc Fri Jan 27 12:34:00 1995 Subject: Re: NVG site To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 12:34:00 GMT In-Reply-To: <199501271221.AA02306@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Jan 27, 95 1:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 286 Lines: 10 On Fri, 27 Jan 1995 13:21:49 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > OK! You take 1 PC, 1 copy of Teledisc (which you'll find on various ^^^^ > simtel mirrors), 1 blank disc and about 5 minutes. Voila! Easier said than done... imc PS why does it take 5 minutes? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 12:50:49 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: Compression Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 12:31:00 PST Message-Id: <2F2956A2@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 21 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 598 Lines: 21 > I have found that the files from lord bladders look like the *.pak files, > but if I load them at 32000 and call 32000 then all that happens is that the > machine crashes, or, occasionally, says "bad checksum". Did you transfer > them in the correct binary mode? Story of my life with *.pak files. I got a load from nvg - when I could still get into in :( which were in a zip file which decompressed ok but 80% gave 'bad checksum' when I tried to unpack them. I'm not impressed with it I can tell you, that's why I prefer sending zipped disc images. Dan. > imc > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 12:59:59 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501271247.AA02899@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: NVG site To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 13:47:25 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9501271234.AA05960@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 27, 95 01:34:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 823 Lines: 28 > > On Fri, 27 Jan 1995 13:21:49 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > > OK! You take 1 PC, 1 copy of Teledisc (which you'll find on various > ^^^^ > > simtel mirrors), 1 blank disc and about 5 minutes. Voila! > > Easier said than done... Come on...I know at least half hundred people with a pc. What about going into a PC-shop and say: "Hey - could I test this PC some minutes?" :) > > imc > > PS why does it take 5 minutes? 2 minutes to download and 3 minutes to run teledisk on the file. > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From imc Fri Jan 27 13:03:42 1995 Subject: Re: NVG site To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 13:03:43 GMT In-Reply-To: <199501271247.AA02899@ulke.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode Tennebo" at Jan 27, 95 1:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 446 Lines: 12 On Fri, 27 Jan 1995 13:47:25 +0100 (MET), Frode Tennebo said: > Come on...I know at least half hundred people with a pc. > What about going into a PC-shop and say: "Hey - could I test > this PC some minutes?" :) That would be too much bother. I would have to walk to the shop first. :-) > 2 minutes to download and 3 minutes to run teledisk on the file. But... 3 minutes to write an 800K disk? That's only 4.4K per second. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 13:09:20 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <1771.9501271258@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 12:58:29 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <2F2956A2@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 27, 95 12:31:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 894 Lines: 27 To Quote Doore, Daniel [MIS] : [deleted] > Story of my life with *.pak files. [deleted] > file which decompressed ok but 80% gave 'bad checksum' when I tried > to unpack them. [deleted] I've used it a couple of times. I generall check that things will decompress again before giving them to people. I find that things will normally work if the first file in the archive is a code file (ie DOS). Of course, this may not have any meaning... and could just be coincidence. What about if you just link the files, but don't compress them? would this give better results? You could then zip this file to save space still. I dunno, just a suggestion, I have no real idea of how it works anyway. Just thought I'd put a different name to an edit :) Tim -- Tim Paveley - University of Southampton Sam Coupe Web Pages: http://whig.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93/Coupe/home.html From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 13:11:42 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9501271307.AA17559@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 13:07:03 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <2F2956A2@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 27, 95 12:31:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 992 Lines: 41 > > > > I have found that the files from lord bladders look like the *.pak files, > > but if I load them at 32000 and call 32000 then all that happens is that > the > > machine crashes, or, occasionally, says "bad checksum". Did you transfer > > them in the correct binary mode? > I will check them tonight (I did use binary mode). I will upload them when I can - got next week off. > Story of my life with *.pak files. > > I got a load from nvg - when I could still get into in :( which were in a > zip > file which decompressed ok but 80% gave 'bad checksum' when I tried > to unpack them. > I have had probs with the Rumsoft Archiver when downloading from NVG, but nothing else. > I'm not impressed with it I can tell you, that's why I prefer sending zipped > disc images. > > Dan. > I haven't got Teledisk to do shit yet. Arse Where can I get a copy of teledisk 2.10? All I can get is 2.12 > > imc > > > Lord Blackadder From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 13:54:41 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9501271347.AA24139@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 13:47:29 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <1771.9501271258@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from "Tim Paveley" at Jan 27, 95 12:58:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1489 Lines: 48 > > To Quote Doore, Daniel [MIS] : > [deleted] > > Story of my life with *.pak files. > [deleted] > > file which decompressed ok but 80% gave 'bad checksum' when I tried > > to unpack them. > [deleted] > > I've used it a couple of times. I generall check that things will > decompress again before giving them to people. I find that things will > normally work if the first file in the archive is a code file (ie DOS). > > Of course, this may not have any meaning... and could just be coincidence. > > What about if you just link the files, but don't compress them? would this > give better results? You could then zip this file to save space still. > That is quite a nice idea - if it is the compression algorithm that is causing the problem. Rumsoft uses an implementation of LZ77 (I think), but that should not cause the probs (me hopes :-\) With reference back to imc's comment about the file extension - it would be nice if we had standard file extensions. I chose .ARC because (to state the bloody obvious), it is the only archiver on the SAM. I am only saying this because of the problems it has caused. How about if we had a list of standard file extensions? Or is this a case of "Who gives a shit!" > I dunno, just a suggestion, I have no real idea of how it works anyway. > > Just thought I'd put a different name to an edit :) > > Tim > -- I am beginning to waffle, soz. I have been up all night. Lord B' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 14:12:09 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: Compression Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 14:08:00 PST Message-Id: <2F296D4C@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 7 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 154 Lines: 7 > How about if we had a list of standard file extensions? This has got to be the best f*cking idea I've heard all week - let's get to it! Dan From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 14:22:45 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Jonathan's comms int mod... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 14:22:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Johnathan Taylor" at Jan 27, 95 04:42:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1094 Lines: 25 > > Actually, we're trying to get the High Density drive working soon... > > we've made the PCB for the SAM Hard Drive (v0.2) now, and we'll post > > laser-printed acetates to you (jonathan) as well as a guide to what > > chip's where) in the near future... > > Me? 'h' missing again, it's Johnathan;-) > ^ Oops! Sorry! > > I assume that you /can/ photoetch pcbs? :) > > Not at the Mo' but rest assured it wouldn't take me long to get the gear;-) > Cheers! > I'll probably have 99% of required components here already on numorous old > PCB's;-) and I've got 6 x 64way EuroPlugs too! So the only things I expect I'll > need to buy would be the photo-resist coated copper-clad boards and the IDE > plug and leads(got an old UV Suntan lamp somwhere that'll do the UV exposure;-) Actually, once we have proved that the board Martin has just finished making works, we'll post it down to you -- as long as you can post us some software when you're finished, and you stick to the partition table specs I posted here... :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 14:25:18 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: NVG site Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 14:15:00 PST Message-Id: <2F296F56@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 10 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 132 Lines: 10 > > But... 3 minutes to write an 800K disk? That's only 4.4K per second. Yeah, but it formats too :) Dan. > imc > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 14:28:36 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Apology to Cookie Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 14:22:00 PST Message-Id: <2F2970AA@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 6 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 129 Lines: 6 I goofed on the credits of the sam-users name list - I missed off our very own Simes, Soz mate. Dan 'Humble Pie' Doore From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 14:37:37 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Sample-tracker or chewy bar? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 14:26:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <"alfie.uib..311:27.00.95.11.44.33"@uib.no> from "Milan Salajka" at Jan 27, 95 12:37:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 483 Lines: 15 > Hmmm, ProTracker isn't just other version of E-Tracker. It's completly > other program not from ESI. It looks like a original amiga's protracker, > it has got the same commands... It doesn't use samples, but it has got > very good and useable 'sample' editor. > > Milan > Okay, so how can we mortal folk in the UK get a hold of ProTracker then? I know at least one person who would give his grandma to get a copy of it... (Dr.H be-eth his moniker) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 16:00:12 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9501271551.AA32183@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 15:51:09 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <2F296D4C@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 27, 95 02:08:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 462 Lines: 23 > > > > How about if we had a list of standard file extensions? > > This has got to be the best f*cking idea I've heard all week - let's get to > it! > > Dan > .ARC - Rumsofts Archiver .CDE - Code files .SCR or maybe .PIC Screen files .PRG - Program files or we could adopt the MS-DOS *:-\ concept .EXE .TXT or maybe .DOC - obvious .DAT - Generally data file These are all logical - can anyone come up with some more. Lord B' From imc Fri Jan 27 16:03:17 1995 Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 16:03:17 GMT In-Reply-To: <9501271551.AA32183@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk>; from "Lord Blackadder" at Jan 27, 95 3:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 323 Lines: 11 On Fri, 27 Jan 1995 15:51:09 +0000 (GMT), Lord Blackadder said: > .CDE - Code files or .BIN, perhaps. I've seen that a lot more commonly. > .PRG - Program files or we could adopt the MS-DOS *:-\ concept .EXE BASIC programs would not be stored as .EXE files... they would be either .PRG or .BAS files. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 16:21:20 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <2967.9501271610@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: File Types To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:10:47 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9501271551.AA32183@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> from "Lord Blackadder" at Jan 27, 95 03:51:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 469 Lines: 19 To Quote Lord Blackadder : > .ARC - Rumsofts Archiver > .CDE - Code files > .SCR or maybe .PIC Screen files > .PRG - Program files or we could adopt the MS-DOS *:-\ concept .EXE > .TXT or maybe .DOC - obvious > .DAT - Generally data file > > > These are all logical - can anyone come up with some more. Howabout EXE for AutoRunning Code/Basic Files, to distingush them? Tim -- Tim Paveley Maths with Computer Science University of Southampton From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 16:21:39 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:19:03 +0100 X400-Originator: cgp@st-andrews.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<11135.9501271519@pasta.st-andre] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Sample-tr... From: Colin G Piggot Message-Id: <11135.9501271519@pasta.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sample-tracker or chewy bar? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 531 Lines: 14 > Okay, so how can we mortal folk in the UK get a hold of ProTracker then? > I know at least one person who would give his grandma to get a copy of it... > > (Dr.H be-eth his moniker) > > Simon I'm currently working on a MOD composer/editor/etc.. for the Sam, sticking strickly to the universal standard of Protracker 1.3 MOD file type, but it will also load the old NoiseTracker files too. (Yeap, you guessed it - it's for my sound card... now exams are over things are moving along rapidly!) Colin Piggot. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 17:12:22 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9501271657.AA30701@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: File Types To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:57:44 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <2967.9501271610@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from "Tim Paveley" at Jan 27, 95 04:10:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 726 Lines: 33 > > To Quote Lord Blackadder : > > .ARC - Rumsofts Archiver > > .CDE - Code files > > .SCR or maybe .PIC Screen files > > .PRG - Program files or we could adopt the MS-DOS *:-\ concept .EXE > > .TXT or maybe .DOC - obvious > > .DAT - Generally data file > > > > > > These are all logical - can anyone come up with some more. > > > Howabout EXE for AutoRunning Code/Basic Files, to distingush them? I think this is an excellent idea. Thing is, are we going to use .BAS or .PRG for basic programs. N.B. I have always used .PRG so I am biased :) > > Tim > -- > Tim Paveley > What about Driver files - I don't have a copy of Driver, so don't really know much about it. Lord B' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 17:13:14 1995 From: DAVID ZAMBONINI To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:53:39 GMT Subject: Re: .Z80 files Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2139 Lines: 62 > From: Frode Tennebo > Subject: Re: .Z80 files > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date sent: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 11:12:30 +0100 (MET) > Send reply to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > > > > Does anybody want a little conversion program I wrote last night to > > decompress and run .Z80 files on a sam? > > Don't ask. Just upload the stuff! :) > > > > > There will be a two way .SNA and .Z80 convertor coming soon... > > That too! > OK it's coming it's coming... :) I appear to have run into a spot of difficulty, which is only to be expected from a routine that took me an hour to write... Since Graham only sent be specs on .Z80 and .SNA files on Wednesday, the same day I wrote it, and I only wanted a convertor to play Chaos, the results are a little... err.. erratic. I *think* the .Z80 file was corrupted in transfer, cause my program gives a decompression error and the game don't play right.. (it works... just). Then again, its more likely that theres a fault in my rouitne, which I'm looking into... Since I have never seen or used a .Z80 or .SNA file before in my life don't expect a working copy before monday... :) Oh,last night I incorporated a .SNA convertor so my proggy gives the following operations at the moment:- .Z80-->.SNA .Z80-->Emulation .SNA-->Emulation Emulation-->.SNA Once I get the decompressor sorted, I'll work on a compression routine to give emulation to .Z80 and hence .SNA to .Z80... It'll be uploaded as soon as I remember to bring the disc in... I also need people using .SNA and .Z80 files on a PC as well as the SAM to help me test the thing out... (some .SNA and .Z80 files to test would be nice, too... :) ) DMZ (David Zambonini) === > > > -- > ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ > | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | > | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | > | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | > | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 17:35:14 1995 From: DAVID ZAMBONINI To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 17:22:17 GMT Subject: Re: File Types Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1291 Lines: 48 > From: Lord Blackadder > Subject: Re: File Types > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:57:44 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > > > > To Quote Lord Blackadder : > > > .ARC - Rumsofts Archiver > > > .CDE - Code files > > > .SCR or maybe .PIC Screen files > > > .PRG - Program files or we could adopt the MS-DOS *:-\ concept .EXE > > > .TXT or maybe .DOC - obvious > > > .DAT - Generally data file > > > > > > > > > These are all logical - can anyone come up with some more. > > > > > > Howabout EXE for AutoRunning Code/Basic Files, to distingush them? > > I think this is an excellent idea. Thing is, are we going to use .BAS or > .PRG for basic programs. > > N.B. I have always used .PRG so I am biased :) > > > > > Tim > > -- > > Tim Paveley > > > > > What about Driver files - I don't have a copy of Driver, so don't really > know much about it. > > > > Lord B' > Ermmm... why .PRG files? I've always used .BAS.. it seems a lot more logical.. then again, I'm biased because of this as well... :) I personally distinguish between normal and auto running code files by .COD and .EXE respectively.... DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 19:29:33 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Sample-tracker or chewy bar? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 19:29:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <11135.9501271519@pasta.st-andrews.ac.uk> from "Colin G Piggot" at Jan 27, 95 04:19:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 413 Lines: 13 > I'm currently working on a MOD composer/editor/etc.. for the Sam, sticking > strickly to the universal standard of Protracker 1.3 MOD file type, but it > will also load the old NoiseTracker files too. (Yeap, you guessed it - it's > for my sound card... now exams are over things are moving along rapidly!) > > Colin Piggot. Ah, but the one I'm talking about is a chip music one... :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 19:30:29 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Apology to Cookie To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 19:32:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <2F2970AA@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 27, 95 02:22:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 339 Lines: 17 > > > I goofed on the credits of the sam-users name list - I missed off our very > own > Simes, Soz mate. > > Dan 'Humble Pie' Doore > *grins* sorry about that, but I get tetchy about these things... Take Chris White missing me off the credits for Lemmings, Prince Of Persia etc... the naughty bugger... Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 22:08:45 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 21:10:22 GMT From: briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk (briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk) Message-Id: <6360@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam Users - The naked truth X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 681 Lines: 18 Might I point out that BBS access systems often do things in an odd way. I believe Jonathan Taylors acces is via his local BBS, which puts the SAM-LIST up as a CUGed message area on the BB, and thus it has a different mail address to his. Thus you could have some readers who are not listed, but in CIGs on BBs where the sysop has the mail list as a message area I guess. I only sussed this when Bob rang me, as obviously, there could easily be users who take things in that we know not of! Brian -- briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk - Email for Speccy membranes Brian Gaff is B G Services - UK support for 'Z80' The Spectrum Emulator From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 22:09:26 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 21:27:17 GMT From: briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk (briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk) Message-Id: <6361@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam RS232 comms X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 395 Lines: 10 I am currently using a program on the PC calledd Cpoint. I gather its written in erm C. Its very small and simple compared with the mailers. Thats the sort of thing SAM needs. Brian (confusing by using another address!) -- briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk - Email for Speccy membranes Brian Gaff is B G Services - UK support for 'Z80' The Spectrum Emulator From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 27 22:09:49 1995 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 03:58:53 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9501272158.AA04479@lis31.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: whatisname From: Creature Feature! Message-Id: <9501272158.AA04479@lis31.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: whatisname Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 942 Lines: 28 1. My name is not George Smith! 2. It is infact Ronan FitzGerald Thank you! I only use Geroge Smith cause I think it is a kool name! The realy George Smyth is a friend of my brothers who used to draw all the Therapy? covers (you know the ones! The early good ones!:) and I thought his name was a little unusual so I stole it! Who was it anyway that fingered me? I could charge you a tenner for that! Anyway... Just thought I would sort that out and tell you all that from Moday (monday to those who don't understand spelling mistakes!:) onwards I shall hopefully be making more of an impact to this mailing list! Other than that... Good luck to ya all! /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 28 23:11:08 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 22:15:54 GMT From: briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk (briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk) Message-Id: <6395@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: NVG site X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 224 Lines: 8 Teledisc gives up after 16 copies it seems... Brian -- briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk - Email for Speccy membranes Brian Gaff is B G Services - UK support for 'Z80' The Spectrum Emulator From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 28 23:11:09 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 22:20:37 GMT From: briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk (briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk) Message-Id: <6396@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Compression X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 346 Lines: 12 ARC is already in use in other environments, as is ARK. Why noT ARQ TXT could be for standard CR/LF text, and STX for the space filled type used by you know what. Brian -- briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk - Email for Speccy membranes Brian Gaff is B G Services - UK support for 'Z80' The Spectrum Emulator From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 28 23:11:10 1995 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 22:25:59 GMT From: briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk (briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk) Message-Id: <6397@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: File Types X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 250 Lines: 9 Why we all use .XXX, lets be different and yse a 5 char extension! :-) Brian -- briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk - Email for Speccy membranes Brian Gaff is B G Services - UK support for 'Z80' The Spectrum Emulator From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 28 23:13:01 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501281011.AA21409@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: NVG site To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 11:11:15 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <6395@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk" at Jan 27, 95 10:15:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 799 Lines: 26 > > Teledisc gives up after 16 copies it seems... This might very well be true. It is shareware (or whatever) and you are supposed to register if you kinda like it. Whenever I teledisk something, I use the original teled212.zip (:-) file and unzip it every time. Therefor this has never bothered me :) > > Brian > > -- > briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk - Email for Speccy membranes > Brian Gaff is B G Services - UK support for 'Z80' > The Spectrum Emulator > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 28 23:13:44 1995 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 11:16:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: File Types In-Reply-To: <9501271657.AA30701@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 806 Lines: 24 > What about Driver files - I don't have a copy of Driver, so don't really > know much about it. > > > > Lord B' > Er, as far as I can remember I used .COD for the m/c files, .DAT for data and .SET for preference settings. Other things like Driver aps and Bootstrap files are just given new file-type codes (22 and 23). I noticed that no-one's mentioned the single character extensions a lot of widely-used programs use, like Comet (.S and .B), ETracker (I think), GamesMaster (?) etc. \\/// (o o) +----------------ooO-(_)-Ooo----------------+ | Steve Taylor sct1000@cam.ac.uk | | Pembroke College | | Cambridge CB2 1RF | +-------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 28 23:15:19 1995 To: Sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Hi guys I'm Here!!! From: gianni.zamperini@galactica.it (GIANNI ZAMPERINI) Message-Id: <8A272B6.0001008C7A.uuout@galactica.it> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 95 11:34:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMMUNICATION - ++39-2-29.00.61.50 References: <8A080FA.000100000A.uuout@galactica.it> X-Mailreader: PCBoard Version 15.21 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1137 Lines: 26 Hi Sam-Friends My name you know! And my handle is Bad Boy Kaneda, I have the SAM Coupe' from 3 years 6 mounth I have get in 1991 the Exclusive for the distribution of the SAm in Italy From SAM Limited, until the dead of that, I have continued to use Spectrum and QL, but 5 Mounth ago I have find a new SAM-FRIEND in Italy Arne Di Russo and he have let me some great new Stuff and idea for SAM. 2 Mounth ago i have make a Virtual Reality Glove for SAM and Spectrum and in the 29 January i have organyzed a Italian Sinclair Microfair for SAM, Spectrum, QL and Psion Users. I'm 22 years old and I love Computers, Motorbikes, Ham-Radio, Japan Culture (ANIME&MANGA) and Girls!!!:-DD I live in the night and run in Cyberspace: Internet but also in DK and USA BBS. Right! That's all about me, now I want ask you some questions, I hope to dont make some Terrible FAQ! 1 - Is there some HAM-RADIO software for SAM? 2 - Do you know some SAM Users in Swiss? 3 - Is the HD interface finish? 4 - Continues.... BYE BBK Bad Boy Kaneda ... \|\|\|\| ! THE SAM DO IT BETTER ! |/|/|/|/ ___ SeM 1.10 UNREGISTERED From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 28 23:15:31 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199501281419.AA23947@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Hi guys I'm Here!!! To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 15:19:02 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <8A272B6.0001008C7A.uuout@galactica.it> from "GIANNI ZAMPERINI" at Jan 28, 95 11:34:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 499 Lines: 12 > 2 - Do you know some SAM Users in Swiss? I am in Switzerland right now, but I'd probably have to consider myself as an 'intermediant' sam-user as I don't have my SAM with me. *sniff* Cheers! Or...salut! -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 28 23:21:04 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Sam RS232 comms To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 19:46:10 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Johnathan Taylor" at Jan 27, 95 05:14:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1586 Lines: 37 > Exessive interupt over-heads will be apparrent by screen output being noticably > slowed down whilst data is comming in at high-speed and sudden emptying of the > ISR ring-buffer and fast printing when the other end stops sending after a > screen full. Yeah, but the fifo will play havoc with my XON/XOFF flow control :( Or maybe it won't... hmmm... > [Screen handling] > Interupts during a PUSH HL... style CLS routine don't corrupt the screen as > on an interupt the PC and whatever reg's get pushed onto the stack which does > cause momentry blobs BUT they're popped back off afterwards and the next CLS's > PUSH HL's erase the blobs.... The only thing to watchout for is IF an interupt > occours just after the final PUSH HL at the top of the screen (as viewed > on-screen) then we'd have to make sure we don't have any important data there.. Yeah... there shouldn't be anyway... The main problem I've got at the moment is a 30% reduction in efficiency when I put the shadow-screen which I use for the scroll-back buffer. Bother. > > The scripts will be compiled anyway, so it should make things quite nice > > and fast... > > Vroooooom.......... *smiles* I'm even thinking of putting a peephole optimiser in there :) > > [Sam Fax] > No response as yet... The mailer frontend that I'm using on this PeeCee has > an earlier versions C source available and may have the Fax receive functions > in it as it can receive raw Fax T.4 files itself! I'll get hold off the source > tomorrow and have a look see:-) Oooh brillo! Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 29 09:02:16 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 29 Jan 95 01:09:21 +0000 Subject: Sam Users - The naked truth Message-Id: <963_9501290850@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1476 Lines: 40 On (27 Jan 95) briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk wrote... > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 21:10:22 GMT > From: "briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk" > Might I point out that BBS access systems often do things in an > odd way. I believe Jonathan Taylors acces is via his local BBS, > which puts the SAM-LIST up as a CUGed message area on the BB, > and thus it has a different mail address to his. To my knowledge I'm the only Sam owner/user that loggs onto centron.com so it's a pretty small CUG;-) > Thus you could have some readers who are not listed, but in CIGs > on BBs where the sysop has the mail list as a message area I > guess. This is possible but to avoid this I've NOT publisised the availability to anyone outside the current sam-users list. > I only sussed this when Bob rang me, as obviously, there could > easily be users who take things in that we know not of! There could be, and if it was to be made available here then it'd be by permission ie they'd have to ask AND be granted access to it. Or there's always the alternate method that direct or indirect flaming be outlawed on the list and relegated to private email between the parties concerned like happens in most public forums:-) Regards Johnathan. ... Talk is cheap, until you hire a lawyer. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 29 09:02:17 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 29 Jan 95 02:00:22 +0000 Subject: Maplin vs Farnell Message-Id: <965_9501290850@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 776 Lines: 21 Si suggested Farnell as a better supplier than Maplin.... In Most ways I totally agree! The only thing Maplin has going for it is VAT inclusive pricing and the online ordering system Cashtel. Farnell on the other hand has a much wider range of component types, FREE data sheets on EVERY chip they stock and I just found out they also do a FREE catalogue! And they also have a disc-based version too! Plus their tech staff know their products whilst Maplin tech staff don't even know what modem speeds their Cashtel service will work at! Regards Johanthan. ... If ignorance is bliss... Is stupidity orgasmic? -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 29 09:02:19 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 29 Jan 95 00:14:26 +0000 Subject: Compression Message-Id: <962_9501290850@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2915 Lines: 72 On (27 Jan 95) cm3hdlt@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk wrote... > From: Lord Blackadder > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 15:51:09 +0000 (GMT) > > > How about if we had a list of standard file extensions? > > This has got to be the best f*cking idea I've heard all week - let's get > to it! > Dan First let's define what NOT to use! > .ARC - Rumsofts Archiver The .ARC extension is actually copyrighted! It belongs to System Enhancments Assosiations ie the people who wrote ARC/UNARC originally. examples of other .ext's that should not be used especially when placed on a ftp site are... .ARK CP/M variant of the .ARC archive .LBR Originally CP/M specific library file somtimes used in MS-DOS specific Apps to store a library of screen or printer drivers and are not compatable with the original format. .LZS .LSS .LZH .LHA all are produced by the LHxxxx series of archivers .PMA a CP/M specific variant of the LHarc archiver .ARJ probably copyrighted archive extension name .ZIP " " " " " .PAK " " " " " .ZOO possibly " " " " .?Q? .?Z? .?Y? are produced by the CP/M equivilent of unix compress/gzip and are single files compressed with a squeeze/crunch/freeze utility respectivly. .BAS is normally a non-tokenised BASIC source listing .COM .EXE .CMD are binary executables *normally* .BAT .SUB .JOB are normally ASCII command batch files .PIC .PCX .GIF .FIF .TIF .JPG .IMG etc are all pre-defined extensions that infer a definate file structure to transfer graphics that should not be used unless the file complies with the required structure. The use of any of those for Sam specific file-types on ftp sites and BBS's will at the least cause confusion and wasted ftp's and at worst some of them could cause machines to crash or even legal action for copyright or regestered trademark infringmant! > .CDE - Code files > .SCR or maybe .PIC Screen files > .PRG - Program files or we could adopt the MS-DOS *:-\ concept .EXE > .TXT or maybe .DOC - obvious > .DAT - Generally data file > These are all logical - can anyone come up with some more. .EXC for auto-executing CODE files maybe but never .EXE Why does the SAM *NEED* three character filename extensions on its own filesystem? The normal directory command shows exactly what type each file is as it already has the filetype in compressed form, why waste the name-length? I agree to Brian's suggestion that the *SAM specific* archival program should use a different extension .ARQ seems non-contentious with other file-ext's:-) Regards Johnathan ... Beware the Inertia of the Status Quo - Robin Clay -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 29 09:02:19 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 29 Jan 95 01:26:41 +0000 Subject: Jonathan's comms int mod... Message-Id: <964_9501290850@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2081 Lines: 49 On (27 Jan 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote to All... > From: Simon Cooke > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 14:22:48 +0000 (GMT) >>> Actually, we're trying to get the High Density drive working soon... >>> we've made the PCB for the SAM Hard Drive (v0.2) now, and we'll post >>> laser-printed acetates to you (jonathan) as well as a guide to what >>> chip's where) in the near future... > >> Me? 'h' missing again, it's Johnathan;-) > ^ > Oops! Sorry! Only way I can be sure that you really mean me:-) > Actually, once we have proved that the board Martin has just finished > making works, we'll post it down to you -- as long as you can post us > some software when you're finished, and you stick to the partition table > specs I posted here... :) I cannot promise that I'll be able to stick to the partition table specs especially on the first prototype cbios's as most of the programming effort will be going into just making it work any which way I can... I'll probably have more than enough on my plate just getting it properly CP/M3 compatable! Also as I/we won't be using that particular interface in the *final* product due to size I expect that I'd be postponing the final versions of OS 'til the final interface is ready, (which may not be too long anyway) I've recently ordered a proper RS232 based terminal, similar to a WYSE type. This'll be used to allow me to get it up and running without worrying about terminal emulation and interupt-driven keyboard scanning:-) BTW if you do want to try and knock-up an adaptor PCB to use the broken internal floppies FDC-PCB with an external drive I've taken the PCB off my broken drive and written down the pinouts of the 26way connector, anyone want that pinout posted here? Regards Johnathan. ... I am Elmer Fudd of Borg. I will assimilate that wabbit. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 29 14:25:59 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Prodos Bugs (?) To: jet@centron.com, sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 14:25:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 417 Lines: 22 Evenin' all... I've found a slight problem with Prodos (including Johnathan's version) and external drives... Basically, the seek command in Prodos doesn't hold the correct value -- it disables the spin-up sequence. To get it to work, you should poke the bit which does: LD A,31 OUT (C),A with LD A,%10111 .... Hope that helps -- it got Prodos working nicely on our system anyway Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 29 21:01:36 1995 Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 20:54:50 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6428@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Prodos Bugs (?) X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 372 Lines: 12 Not quite sure what you call an external drive. It works with the SDI, cos I use one. I think the early drives never used their spin up sensor anyway, as I seem tp recall MasterDos complaining that drives were not ready when it sudden;y started working on a new lot of drives. Or have I got the wrong end of the tree agasin? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 29 22:05:31 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Prodos Bugs (?) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 22:09:08 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <6428@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jan 29, 95 08:54:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 764 Lines: 17 > Not quite sure what you call an external drive. It works with > the SDI, cos I use one. > > I think the early drives never used their spin up sensor anyway, > as I seem tp recall MasterDos complaining that drives were not > ready when it sudden;y started working on a new lot of drives. > Or have I got the wrong end of the tree agasin? I'm not sure really... hmmm... the drive we've got here is one bought from an All Format's fair a while back, using it through an SDI. Now, without the slight spinup mod I made to the code, it's always not readY (after which you can repeat the command, and it'll read the disc properly, as you might expect). Everything else works fine, and when I made the mod, hey presto, that was fine too... Si From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 10:00:16 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: whatisname Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 09:46:00 PST Message-Id: <2F2D2460@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 24 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 527 Lines: 24 > 1. My name is not George Smith! > 2. It is infact Ronan FitzGerald > > Thank you! > > I only use Geroge Smith cause I think it is a kool name! But George wasn't listed as your *real* name, it was your alias, your real name was listed as 'Creature Feature' Hmmmm... > Who was it anyway that fingered me? I could charge you a tenner for that! It was imc, so there (maybe he likes fingering young men ;))) BTW we have one outstanding mystery pod: tgog@STUDENT.ucc.ie WHO ARE YOU!!!! Dan. From imc Mon Jan 30 11:31:58 1995 Subject: RE: whatisname To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 11:31:58 GMT In-Reply-To: <2F2D2460@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 30, 95 9:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 287 Lines: 8 On Mon, 30 Jan 95 09:46:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > BTW we have one outstanding mystery pod: If I may digress slightly... what exactly is a "pod" anyway (apart from something that you keep peas in)? "Bod" I could understand, and possibly even "spod", but "pod"? imc From imc Mon Jan 30 11:34:25 1995 Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 11:34:25 GMT In-Reply-To: <6396@bgserv.demon.co.uk>; from "briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk" at Jan 27, 95 10:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 396 Lines: 11 On Fri, 27 Jan 1995 22:20:37 GMT, briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk said: > TXT could be for standard CR/LF text, and STX for the space > filled type used by you know what. Ah, but is it text with CRs, text with LFs, or text with both CRs and LFs? ;-) As you may know, the easiest thing to deal with on the Sam is the first of those, while Unix uses the second and DOS uses the third. imc From imc Mon Jan 30 11:36:28 1995 Subject: Re: File Types To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 11:36:28 GMT In-Reply-To: <6397@bgserv.demon.co.uk>; from "briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk" at Jan 27, 95 10:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 362 Lines: 11 On Fri, 27 Jan 1995 22:25:59 GMT, briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk said: > Why we all use .XXX, lets be different and yse a 5 char > extension! :-) And have 4 characters for the file name. Yeah... :-) Incidentally, why the Sam has 10-character names when even the most uncivilised parts of the world have 12 (including the dot) I will never know... imc From imc Mon Jan 30 11:45:07 1995 Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 11:45:07 GMT In-Reply-To: <962_9501290850@centron.com>; from "Johnathan Taylor" at Jan 29, 95 12:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1408 Lines: 35 On 29 Jan 95 00:14:26 +0000, Johnathan Taylor said: > The .ARC extension is actually copyrighted! It belongs to System Enhancments > Assosiations ie the people who wrote ARC/UNARC originally. Excuse me... how on earth do you copyright a file extension?? I'll call my files whatever I want, thank you... (and btw, a thing is "copyright" - not "copyrighted" unless you are referring particularly to the action of copyrighting it). > .BAS is normally a non-tokenised BASIC source listing Don't believe you. PC BASIC people save their programs as ".BAS" all the time. > .COM .EXE .CMD are binary executables *normally* ".CMD" is the name given to batch files and/or REXX programs on OS/2, which are ASCII and not binary. > .PIC .PCX .GIF .FIF .TIF .JPG .IMG etc are all pre-defined extensions that > infer a definate file structure to transfer graphics that should not be used > unless the file complies with the required structure. Then what is a ".PIC" file? > Why does the SAM *NEED* three character filename extensions on its own > filesystem? The normal directory command shows exactly what type each file is > as it already has the filetype in compressed form, why waste the name-length? Because most of your average files are CODE files, and the directory information which says "CODE 65238,112643" is of almost exactly no use to you whatsoever. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 11:53:44 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <13825.9501301148@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: File Types To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 11:48:54 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9501301136.AA02150@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 30, 95 12:36:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 325 Lines: 16 To Quote Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk : > Incidentally, why the Sam has 10-character names when even the most > uncivilised parts of the world have 12 (including the dot) I will never > know... > > imc > Throw back to the Speccy? Tim -- Tim Paveley Maths with Computer Science University of Southampton From imc Mon Jan 30 11:55:34 1995 Subject: Re: File Types To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 11:55:34 GMT In-Reply-To: <13825.9501301148@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk>; from "Tim Paveley" at Jan 30, 95 11:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 280 Lines: 10 On Mon, 30 Jan 1995 11:48:54 +0000 (GMT), Tim Paveley said: > Throw back to the Speccy? OK, so yes I do know, but I was speaking rhetorically you understand... :-) (Besides which, I don't know *why* they decided to copy the file name format from the spectrum). imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 11:56:53 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: whatisname Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 11:53:00 PST Message-Id: <2F2D422D@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 14 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 358 Lines: 14 > If I may digress slightly... what exactly is a "pod" anyway (apart from > something that you keep peas in)? "Bod" I could understand, and possibly > even "spod", but "pod"? Pod n. Long seed vessel, as of peas, beans etc. -vi. form pods -vt. shell (-dd-) Hmm, once you start to rationalise things, life becomes so dull. Dan. > imc > From imc Mon Jan 30 11:58:52 1995 Subject: RE: whatisname To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 11:58:52 GMT In-Reply-To: <2F2D422D@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Jan 30, 95 11:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 259 Lines: 10 On Mon, 30 Jan 95 11:53:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > > If I may digress slightly... what exactly is a "pod" anyway (apart from > > something that you keep peas in)? > Pod n. Long seed vessel, as of peas, I said *apart* from that... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 12:51:48 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: The Great Pod debate. Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 12:45:00 PST Message-Id: <2F2D4E86@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 13 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 221 Lines: 13 > > Pod n. Long seed vessel, as of peas, > > I said *apart* from that... As I said, once you try and make sense of it it's gone. Besides, It's my phrase, everybody can take best guess :-> Dan. > imc > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 12:55:35 1995 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 13:44:16 MET From: Milan Salajka Subject: HyperText To: sam-users Message-Id: <"alfie.uib..538:30.00.95.12.50.39"@uib.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 218 Lines: 8 Hi, i put to sam-coupe/incoming directory program called HyperText. It's simply hypertext viewer. And because there is discussion about filetypes, i'm saying: hypertext's file .ext is .htx ! :) Milan From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 13:04:36 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199501301255.AA02757@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: HyperText To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 13:55:51 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <"alfie.uib..538:30.00.95.12.50.39"@uib.no> from "Milan Salajka" at Jan 30, 95 01:44:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 657 Lines: 21 > > > Hi, > > i put to sam-coupe/incoming directory program called HyperText. > It's simply hypertext viewer. And because there is discussion > about filetypes, i'm saying: hypertext's file .ext is .htx ! :) > What sort of HyperText? Ther a dosent or so (depending on how you define 'hypertext') formats out there. Do you mean html? > Milan > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 13:10:13 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199501301304.AA02844@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 14:04:10 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9501301145.AA02187@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 30, 95 12:45:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 928 Lines: 33 > > Because most of your average files are CODE files, and the directory > information which says "CODE 65238,112643" is of almost exactly no use > to you whatsoever. I say we build a database within a new dos (EDOS) as a separate file, that contains a unique ID (like the current file-ID(entificator) and a descriptor. Something like: 20 BASIC 21 CODE : 69 MY_TYPE This way people can add new types without thinking about the extension. Just add to the SAVE command something like SAVE ,"name" blah-blah Only need to make some sort of allocation to official file-types or something. :) > > imc > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 13:14:44 1995 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 12:51:04 +0000 In-Reply-To: jet -- "Maplin vs Farnell" (Jan 29, 2:00am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Maplin vs Farnell Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 194 Lines: 10 On Jan 29, 2:00am in "Maplin vs Farnell", Johananathananathon wrote ] Johanthan. I guess you get the meaning of this mail... Geoff So who has dishes that are soft as your face? From imc Mon Jan 30 13:15:50 1995 Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 13:15:50 GMT In-Reply-To: <199501301304.AA02844@lyr.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no" at Jan 30, 95 2:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 497 Lines: 18 On Mon, 30 Jan 1995 14:04:10 +0100 (MET), Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no said: > 20 BASIC > 21 CODE > : > 69 MY_TYPE Ooerr... anyway, don't types only go up to 63? And isn't BASIC 16 and CODE 19? :-) > SAVE ,"name" blah-blah Would you have the opportunity to specify some extra information to be stored in the directory as well (in the same way as BASIC stores all those length values)? Or perhaps you don't need that as I can't think of any examples right now... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 13:16:38 1995 Message-Id: From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 12:50:26 +0000 In-Reply-To: jet -- "Maplin vs Farnell" (Jan 29, 2:00am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Maplin vs Farnell Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 942 Lines: 26 On Jan 29, 2:00am in "Maplin vs Farnell", you warbled: ] Si suggested Farnell as a better supplier than Maplin.... Except that they're more expensive, I'd agree... ] In Most ways I totally agree! The only thing Maplin has going for it is VAT ] inclusive pricing and the online ordering system Cashtel. Hmmmmm... is that accessible via internet? ] Farnell on the other hand has a much wider range of component types, FREE data ] sheets on EVERY chip they stock and I just found out they also do a ] FREE catalogue! And they also have a disc-based version too! Wooo. But you have to be a member... ] Plus their tech staff know their products whilst Maplin tech staff don't even ] know what modem speeds their Cashtel service will work at! I'd agree there... if you know what you're doing, though, I'd stick with Maplin, simply for the price difference. Geoff So who has dishes that are soft as your face? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 13:20:20 1995 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 14:15:50 +0100 X400-Originator: Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9501301315.AA03530@booth5.ecs.o] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Compression From: Ian.Collier@uk.ac.oxford.comlab Message-Id: <9501301315.AA03530@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no In-Reply-To: <199501301304.AA02844@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Compression X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 497 Lines: 18 On Mon, 30 Jan 1995 14:04:10 +0100 (MET), Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no said: > 20 BASIC > 21 CODE > : > 69 MY_TYPE Ooerr... anyway, don't types only go up to 63? And isn't BASIC 16 and CODE 19? :-) > SAVE ,"name" blah-blah Would you have the opportunity to specify some extra information to be stored in the directory as well (in the same way as BASIC stores all those length values)? Or perhaps you don't need that as I can't think of any examples right now... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 13:31:48 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199501301326.AA03047@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 14:26:24 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9501301315.AA03530@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 30, 95 02:15:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1012 Lines: 36 > > On Mon, 30 Jan 1995 14:04:10 +0100 (MET), Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no said: > > > 20 BASIC > > 21 CODE > > : > > 69 MY_TYPE > > Ooerr... anyway, don't types only go up to 63? And isn't BASIC 16 and > CODE 19? :-) 63? Ah...you mean the two bits for hidden and protected? Is that still supported in EDOS? > > > SAVE ,"name" blah-blah > > Would you have the opportunity to specify some extra information to > be stored in the directory as well (in the same way as BASIC stores > all those length values)? Or perhaps you don't need that as I can't > think of any examples right now... You mean like SAVE ,,,... ;) > > imc > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 13:37:32 1995 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 14:27:15 MET From: Milan Salajka Subject: Re: HyperText To: sam-users In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 30 Jan 1995 13:55:51 +0100 (MET) from Message-Id: <"alfie.uib..435:30.00.95.13.34.23"@uib.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 411 Lines: 10 > What sort of HyperText? Ther a dosent or so (depending on how you > define 'hypertext') formats out there. Do you mean html? Ho, it isn't html, but if you'll send me list of html's specifiers, i may write html's compatible (hmm, not so much, probably without graphics etc,... sam isn't fastest machine... ;-)) I haven't experiences with html. (heh, i'm using netscape as user only...) Milan From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 13:57:23 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 13:52:02 GMT Subject: Re: Compression Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-Id: <104C4C0044E@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 771 Lines: 20 > From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no > Subject: Re: Compression > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 14:26:24 +0100 (MET) > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > On Mon, 30 Jan 1995 14:26:24 +0100 (MET), Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no said: > You mean like SAVE ,,,... > ;) Or.. or.. what about SAVE ,,,,,,,,,,,<..etc. etc.... I reckon I personally could fit this file id quite nicely into say... ooohh.. 5 megs. What about it?... :) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 14:09:26 1995 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 19:53:46 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9501301353.AA03750@bot34.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: whats in a name From: Creature Feature! Message-Id: <9501301353.AA03750@bot34.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: whats in a name Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 293 Lines: 10 HEH! My real name comes up as Creature feature! cause of.. Remember when C4 (british only will understand this!:) put on a series of godzilla movies?? They called the series "Creature feature" I love godzilla and stole the name! There you go! Bet you didn't know that then??? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 14:26:07 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: whats in a name Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 14:14:00 PST Message-Id: <2F2D63C7@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 11 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 297 Lines: 11 > HEH! My real name comes up as Creature feature! cause of.. > > Bet you didn't know that then??? 'fraid so, every friday night I was there. Superb (esp. when they dub an american actor into japanese and THEN dub it all in american again - I was in physical pain laughing) Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 15:13:30 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Maplin vs Farnell To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 15:14:02 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Mars Bar" at Jan 30, 95 12:50:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1002 Lines: 29 > Except that they're more expensive, I'd agree... Nope, they're not more expensive - but it does depend on what you buy. For PC keyboards, go to Maplins, not Farnells, but for IC's, you can usually buy them cheaper than Maplins... [Cashtel] > Hmmmmm... is that accessible via internet? > Nope -- modem only. > ] Farnell on the other hand has a much wider range of component types, FREE data > ] sheets on EVERY chip they stock and I just found out they also do a > ] FREE catalogue! And they also have a disc-based version too! > > Wooo. But you have to be a member... Nope -- you can get it for free. Just phone up their sales dept. > ] Plus their tech staff know their products whilst Maplin tech staff don't even > ] know what modem speeds their Cashtel service will work at! > > I'd agree there... if you know what you're doing, though, I'd stick with > Maplin, simply for the price difference. Which is the same reason I'll stick with Farnells :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 15:22:37 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 15:18:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199501301326.AA03047@lyr.hiMolde.no> from "Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no" at Jan 30, 95 02:26:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1237 Lines: 36 > > Ooerr... anyway, don't types only go up to 63? And isn't BASIC 16 and > > CODE 19? :-) > > 63? Ah...you mean the two bits for hidden and protected? Is that > still supported in EDOS? Yep, bits 6 and 7 do hidden and protected. In EDOS, there will be a separate file attribute word... > > > SAVE ,"name" blah-blah > > > > Would you have the opportunity to specify some extra information to > > be stored in the directory as well (in the same way as BASIC stores > > all those length values)? Or perhaps you don't need that as I can't > > think of any examples right now... > > You mean like SAVE ,,,... *grins* btw: If anybody would like to come up with details of how to store files (I can handle directory structures dead easy) for the hard-drive, I'd be most grateful. At the moment I'm still looking at FAT style stuff -- other peoples ideas (and I need technical details people!) would be greatly appreciated. btw: Termite will support the hard-drive from day 1. The Entropy interface, that is. Simon ps Anybody heard anything off Bob? He was supposed to be faxing me technical details on the HD before Xmas... From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 16:23:56 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9501301618.AA16058@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Hi guys I'm Here!!! To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 16:18:50 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <8A272B6.0001008C7A.uuout@galactica.it> from "GIANNI ZAMPERINI" at Jan 28, 95 11:34:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1390 Lines: 45 > > Hi Sam-Friends > My name you know! And my handle is Bad Boy Kaneda, I have the SAM > Coupe' from 3 years 6 mounth I have get in 1991 the Exclusive for > the distribution of the SAm in Italy From SAM Limited, until the > dead of that, I have continued to use Spectrum and QL, but 5 > Mounth ago I have find a new SAM-FRIEND in Italy Arne Di Russo and Don't forget the rest of us here on the SAM-CHUMS :-\ > he have let me some great new Stuff and idea for SAM. 2 Mounth > ago i have make a Virtual Reality Glove for SAM and Spectrum and > in the 29 January i have organyzed a Italian Sinclair Microfair > for SAM, Spectrum, QL and Psion Users. Tell us more... > I'm 22 years old and I love Computers, Motorbikes, Ham-Radio, > Japan Culture (ANIME&MANGA) and Girls!!!:-DD ^^^^^^^^ Don't we all. I know I can't get enough of mine :) :) :) > I live in the night and run in Cyberspace: Internet but also in > DK and USA BBS. > Right! That's all about me, now I want ask you some questions, > I hope to dont make some Terrible FAQ! > 1 - Is there some HAM-RADIO software for SAM? > 2 - Do you know some SAM Users in Swiss? > 3 - Is the HD interface finish? Come on Si, hurry up! > 4 - Continues.... > > BYE > BBK > Bad Boy Kaneda > ... \|\|\|\| ! THE SAM DO IT BETTER ! |/|/|/|/ It always did. Lord Blackadder From imc Mon Jan 30 16:27:01 1995 Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 16:27:01 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 30, 95 3:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 301 Lines: 8 On Mon, 30 Jan 1995 15:18:55 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > btw: If anybody would like to come up with details of how to store files > (I can handle directory structures dead easy) for the hard-drive, I'd be > most grateful. I thought we went through this a couple of months ago... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 16:38:24 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9501301632.AA20773@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 16:32:12 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <962_9501290850@centron.com> from "Johnathan Taylor" at Jan 29, 95 00:14:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1004 Lines: 32 > > Why does the SAM *NEED* three character filename extensions on its own > filesystem? The normal directory command shows exactly what type each file is > as it already has the filetype in compressed form, why waste the name-length? > The use of file extensions helps the user know, at a glance, what type of file it is. If the archiver had used a file extension there would not have been the confusion over these types of files. Text files of the sam are shown as code files. If word processors used a different format to hold the text, and no file extension was specified, you would not know what the file should be loaded up into. It's all very well saying we don't need file extensions, but they can only aid sam users (not hinder). > I agree to Brian's suggestion that the *SAM specific* archival program should > use a different extension .ARQ seems non-contentious with other file-ext's:-) > Agreed. > Regards > Johnathan > Lord Blackadder From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 17:05:08 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199501301650.AA04963@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: HyperText To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 17:50:50 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <"alfie.uib..435:30.00.95.13.34.23"@uib.no> from "Milan Salajka" at Jan 30, 95 02:27:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1026 Lines: 32 > > > > What sort of HyperText? Ther a dosent or so (depending on how you > > define 'hypertext') formats out there. Do you mean html? > > Ho, it isn't html, but if you'll send me list of html's specifiers, > i may write html's compatible (hmm, not so much, probably without graphics > etc,... sam isn't fastest machine... ;-)) I haven't experiences with > html. (heh, i'm using netscape as user only...) Why is everybody using Netscape? It has the worst dithering- routine(s) I've ever seen. Anyway, check out: http://dri.cornell.edu/pub/davis/html-parser.html http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/MarkUp.html http://www.utirc.utoronto.ca/HTMLdocs/NewHTML/htmlindex.html Good luck. > > Milan > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 17:06:06 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9501301621.AA25633@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: File Types To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 16:21:31 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Steve Taylor" at Jan 28, 95 11:16:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1030 Lines: 33 > > > What about Driver files - I don't have a copy of Driver, so don't really > > know much about it. > > > > > > > > Lord B' > > > > Er, as far as I can remember I used .COD for the m/c files, .DAT for data > and .SET for preference settings. Other things like Driver aps and > Bootstrap files are just given new file-type codes (22 and 23). > > I noticed that no-one's mentioned the single character extensions a lot > of widely-used programs use, like Comet (.S and .B), ETracker (I think), > GamesMaster (?) etc. > Single character file types are not very descriptive. I do think that the 5 characters mentioned by Brian was a bit over the top, however. > \\/// > (o o) > +----------------ooO-(_)-Ooo----------------+ > | Steve Taylor sct1000@cam.ac.uk | > | Pembroke College | > | Cambridge CB2 1RF | > +-------------------------------------------+ > > Lord Blackadder From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 18:19:26 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 30 Jan 95 16:39:34 +0000 Subject: Sam RS232 comms Message-Id: <4e1_9501301727@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2789 Lines: 68 On (28 Jan 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote to All... > From: Simon Cooke > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 19:46:10 +0000 (GMT) > Yeah, but the fifo will play havoc with my XON/XOFF flow control :( Or > maybe it won't... hmmm... These days XON/XOFF over a transparent data link is virtually ineffective as one or both ends will be using a modem with an internal buffer that means that the XOFF will not take effect until it reaches the other machine and it's Tx buffer is emptied many hundreds of bytes later... and if you mean local XON/XOFF between the SAM and the local error corecting modem... it's obslotete as the UART does it much better and works while interupts are disabled during floppy access or the ISR being paged out of context... > [Screen handling] > The main problem I've got at the moment is a 30% reduction in efficiency > when I put the shadow-screen which I use for the scroll-back buffer. > Bother. Hmm, I've never used such a facility myself. I've always been content with spooling a session and simply viewing the log whilst online and log-file still open if there's no quick way back to what I want to view... >>> The scripts will be compiled anyway, so it should make things quite nice >>> and fast... >> Vroooooom.......... > *smiles* I'm even thinking of putting a peephole optimiser in there :) What compiling to M-Code! Isn't that a *bit* overkill? I thought you meant tokenising the script commands and reducing them to a list of tokenised commands with pointers to the strings etc... >>> [Sam Fax] >> No response as yet... The mailer frontend that I'm using on this PeeCee has >> an earlier versions C source available and may have the Fax receive functions >> in it as it can receive raw Fax T.4 files itself! I'll get hold off the >> source tomorrow and have a look see:-) > Oooh brillo! Just as sods law would have it, I cannot find the source code online where I thought it was:-( One last place to look before the weekend cheap-rate is up. I found it, alas the built-in Fax Rx transport code was added after that release:-( 400k+ @2400buad LD wasted Oh well at least I've now got ZedZap and Janus protocols in C source form:-) I think the only variant from a straight T.4 data dump out to a file during the Phase-C stage is some fiddling using the DLE, sequence... The text file I have that mentions this is not too clear on why and EXACTLY how it's to be done... How's that SLIP comming on? Regards Johnathan. ... HHeellpp.. II''mm ssttuucckk iinn hhaallff......dduupplleexx. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 18:22:35 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 29 Jan 95 21:16:21 +0000 Subject: Prodos Bugs (?) Message-Id: <4e0_9501301727@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2033 Lines: 63 On (29 Jan 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote... > From: Simon Cooke > Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 14:25:19 +0000 (GMT) > Evenin' all... Hi Si! > I've found a slight problem with Prodos (including Johnathan's version) > and external drives... Make that slow-starting external drives;-) > Basically, the seek command in Prodos doesn't hold the correct value -- > it disables the spin-up sequence. I'm not sure about the original 1.9 I *think* that disables it... I did run a version with the spinup sequence and found that it didn't improve anything on my system! In fact it made drive access slower as both my internal and external drives spin-up in much less time than the FDC delays the procedings Hence the version I supplied was also like that:-) > To get it to work, you should poke the bit which does: > LD A,31 > OUT (C),A > with > LD A,%10111 > .... > Hope that helps -- it got Prodos working nicely on our system anyway Note that is also the place to change the step-rate at bits 0 & 1 %00010100 does 6mS seeks with spin-up sequence %00010101 " 12mS " " " " %00010110 " 2mS " " " " The 2mS step-rate worked fine on my external Teac and the internal Citizen drives but Brian had problems at that rate so I returned back to 3mS. If you're lucky, the 12mS rate will allow it to work on 5.25" external drives. I was thinking of doing a little system utility that allows the end user to alter the exact step-rate and spin-up option after inital boot sequence... As my version's not quite finished I've not done the utility *yet*... Regards Johnathan. PS With a little bit of hacking the internal SAM-FDI pcb can accept a right-angle 34way plug! I did it earlier today:-) ... Just when you think it's hopelessly broken, it works. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 30 20:34:30 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <17598.9501302023@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: .PAK files To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users mailing list) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 20:23:51 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 344 Lines: 13 I have decided that the .pak extension shouldn't be used. This is because whenever I try ftp'ing .pak files using mosaic or netscape, it keeps trying to display them rather then get them, so I have to ftp them properly. Not a very good reason I know :) Tim -- Tim Paveley Maths with Computer Science University of Southampton From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 06:14:36 1995 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 20:23:19 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6466@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Prodos Bugs (?) X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1041 Lines: 26 In message Simon Cooke writes: > > Not quite sure what you call an external drive. It works with > > the SDI, cos I use one. > > > > I'm not sure really... hmmm... the drive we've got here is one bought > from an All Format's fair a while back, using it through an SDI. Now, > without the slight spinup mod I made to the code, it's always not readY > (after which you can repeat the command, and it'll read the disc > properly, as you might expect). Everything else works fine, and when I > made the mod, hey presto, that was fine too... > > Si > I am sure Chris did what SamDos did. What is needed is an executable for existing users that does the alteration on a BOOTed system. I think I will start supplying it as an unprotected program when I get time to alter the manual. The BOOT disc is not really needed. I have had no complaints about this till now. Maybe Chriss just put a delay in, and your drive is just a bit too sluggish. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 06:14:39 1995 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 20:30:36 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6467@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: File Types X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 743 Lines: 23 In message <9501301136.AA02150@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk writes: > On Fri, 27 Jan 1995 22:25:59 GMT, briang@bgserv.demon.co.uk said: > > Why we all use .XXX, lets be different and yse a 5 char > > extension! :-) > > And have 4 characters for the file name. Yeah... :-) > > Incidentally, why the Sam has 10-character names when even the most > uncivilised parts of the world have 12 (including the dot) I will never > know... > > imc > > This is a Spectrum hangover. Remember that SAMDOS discs are very like DIsciple ones. (I had a SAM before it even HAD a Dos, and I guess tape files were like the Speccy ones too.. So, what do you want 256 char filenames? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 06:14:56 1995 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 21:04:08 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6468@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Maplin vs Farnell X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 373 Lines: 17 In message Simon Cooke writes: > > > > I'd agree there... if you know what you're doing, though, I'd stick with > > Maplin, simply for the price difference. > > Which is the same reason I'll stick with Farnells :) > > Simon > > > At least you and Bob agree on something then! :-) Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 06:15:49 1995 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 21:07:42 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6469@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Compression X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 260 Lines: 11 As I recall, Tasword +3 used the non standard type 4 files that Basic could not load. We do not want that hassle on files on SAM. O had to write an M/C routine to change the bl**dy things to Code. Not easy for me! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 06:18:35 1995 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 21:14:00 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6470@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Prodos Bugs (?) X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 167 Lines: 7 Yes, a util like that could be good news for anyone with various drives, enabling optimisation of speed/reliablity in ProDos. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 08:44:45 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 09:34:28 MET From: Milan Salajka Subject: Re: .PAK files To: sam-users In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 30 Jan 1995 20:23:51 +0000 (GMT) from Message-Id: <"alfie.uib..490:31.00.95.08.42.28"@uib.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 340 Lines: 13 > I have decided that the .pak extension shouldn't be used. > This is because whenever I try ftp'ing .pak files using mosaic or netscape, > it keeps trying to display them rather then get them, so I have to ftp them > properly. In Netscape go to Options/Preferences/Helper Applications and setup it. :) > Tim Milan From imc Tue Jan 31 10:23:20 1995 Subject: Re: .PAK files To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 10:23:20 GMT In-Reply-To: <17598.9501302023@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk>; from "Tim Paveley" at Jan 30, 95 8:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 574 Lines: 15 On Mon, 30 Jan 1995 20:23:51 +0000 (GMT), Tim Paveley said: > This is because whenever I try ftp'ing .pak files using mosaic or netscape, > it keeps trying to display them rather then get them, Perhaps this is because the default for any file is plain text. In this case the extension doesn't matter unless it is one of the registered ones. If you want your .pak files to be saved instead of viewed, then add a line to your ~/.mime.types file which says: application/octet-stream pak (or create the file with this line if i doesn't already exist). imc From imc Tue Jan 31 10:34:43 1995 Subject: Re: File Types To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 10:34:43 GMT In-Reply-To: <6467@bgserv.demon.co.uk>; from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jan 30, 95 8:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 486 Lines: 12 On Mon, 30 Jan 1995 20:30:36 GMT, Brian Gaff Sam Dept. said: > So, what do you > want 256 char filenames? Well that would be a tiny bit OTT I think... At the minimum I would have expected enough to be able to store DOS-type file names (this requires 12 characters). A more sensible approach might have been 14-char file names (which allows a spectrum-type name to be followed with a dot and a three-char extension). imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 10:55:04 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199501311046.AA09490@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 11:46:33 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <6469@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jan 30, 95 09:07:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 844 Lines: 30 > > As I recall, Tasword +3 used the non standard type 4 files that > Basic could not load. We do not want that hassle on files on > SAM. If this is the reply to what I think it is, then... Of course, this applies to SAMDOS and even MasterDOS, but I believe Si will let us all do LOAD "foo.BAS" code 65536, won't you????? ;) > > O had to write an M/C routine to change the bl**dy things to > Code. Not easy for me! Wouldn't it have been simpler to just poke the file-type on disc? > > Brian > > -- > Brian Gaff Sam Dept. > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 10:56:09 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: File Types Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 10:46:00 PST Message-Id: <2F2E842F@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 18 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 489 Lines: 18 > > want 256 char filenames? > > Well that would be a tiny bit OTT I think... Agreed, but I think this was just an extreme example... > At the minimum I would have expected enough to be able to store DOS-type > file names (this requires 12 characters). A more sensible approach might > have been 14-char file names (which allows a spectrum-type name to be > followed with a dot and a three-char extension). This sounds the most sensible idea to me. Dan. > imc > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 17:50:59 1995 Message-Id: <9501311732.AA26617@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman (Dr Kid) Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 18:32:44 MET In-Reply-To: <199501311046.AA09490@lyr.hiMolde.no>; from "Frode.Tennebo@himolde.no" at Jan 31, 95 11:46 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1132 Lines: 26 > > If this is the reply to what I think it is, then... > Of course, this applies to SAMDOS and even MasterDOS, > but I believe Si will let us all do LOAD "foo.BAS" code 65536, > won't you????? ;) > > > > > O had to write an M/C routine to change the bl**dy things to > > Code. Not easy for me! > Well at least you can open ANY type of file using OPEN #. I remember tearing my hair over the microdrive access for interface I on the speccy. All the Hook codes allowed you too do was to open and close opentype files and NOT basic/code files. Of course you could call the ROM routines directly (If you had a copy of the ROM dissasembly) but what did Sinclair go and do every few months - change the ROM, and the routine addresses. The only fool proof way was to write/copy the microdrive access code yourself (ALA art studio). BTW Does anyone out there remember a screen shot in Your Sinclair around 1984 of a Desktop for a spectrum with microdrives - very apple like. It may have been a hoax, but it certainly wasn't April. Any thoughts On the GUI theme any sign of the DRiVER docs yet Ian? Allan From imc Tue Jan 31 17:56:03 1995 Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 17:56:03 GMT In-Reply-To: <9501311732.AA26617@dxmint.cern.ch>; from "Allan Skillman" at Jan 31, 95 6:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 693 Lines: 19 On Tue, 31 Jan 95 18:32:44 MET, Allan Skillman said: > Well at least you can open ANY type of file using OPEN #. On the microdrive? Not officially, you can't (though a copy of the open channel was left around in memory so you could access it with a couple of POKEs). > but what did Sinclair go and do > every few months - change the ROM, and the routine addresses. I am only aware of two versions (and since I know the addresses of the routines in each version I can easily write a program which calls them...). > On the GUI theme any sign of the DRiVER docs yet Ian? No, sorry. Only sent out the request yesterday... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 20:25:19 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Prodos Bugs (?) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:16:34 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <6466@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jan 30, 95 08:23:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 714 Lines: 20 > > In message Simon Cooke writes: > I am sure Chris did what SamDos did. What is needed is an executable for > existing users that does the alteration on a BOOTed system. I > think I will start supplying it as an unprotected program when I > get time to alter the manual. The BOOT disc is not really > needed. > > I have had no complaints about this till now. Maybe Chriss just > put a delay in, and your drive is just a bit too sluggish. Chris didn't do the same as SAMDOS -- I've got the source for SAMDOS, and it doesn't use the SEEK command -- it does it manually using Step in and step out... And it also has the spin-up enable set. :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 20:53:43 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:12:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9501301627.AA09778@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 30, 95 05:27:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 787 Lines: 23 > On Mon, 30 Jan 1995 15:18:55 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > > btw: If anybody would like to come up with details of how to store files > > (I can handle directory structures dead easy) for the hard-drive, I'd be > > most grateful. > > I thought we went through this a couple of months ago... Yeah, but it was everyone saying "Do it with this and that and the other", but with no technical details. Like, people saying "Do it like the Unix INODE structure, with 32 bit inodes". Not having ever hacked the UNIX file structure, and not relishing the idea of hacking the linuxx source, I seem to not be able to find anything about it... So, if anyone's willing to spoon-feed me on this one? Simon ps Anyone know anything about the OS/2 HPFS system? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 21:12:58 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:42:32 GMT Subject: Re: Compression Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-Id: <123A11B4AED@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 390 Lines: 10 So, Simon.. it appears that I'm not the only one on here this time of night. Still, I'm glad to say that in answer to your question, I haven't got a clue about the linuxx source. Sigh. Personally, I'd stick to something simple and not worry too much about getting THE definitive DOS up and running... but then, I'm not a perfectionist.... :) DMZ Spod-u-like === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 31 21:26:53 1995 Message-Id: <9501312113.AA18924@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman (Dr Kid) Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 22:13:57 MET In-Reply-To: <123A11B4AED@physx1s.cf.ac.uk>; from "David Zambonini" at Jan 31, 95 8:42 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 71 Lines: 3 Well I'm still here and its an hour ahead in Europe! Allan (YAWN) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 1 06:35:38 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 18:40:10 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6487@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Compression X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 188 Lines: 9 I have a Beta copy of the Microdrive Desctop, I believe it was MAX A lot of it was not written on my copy. It was AMS Mouse type thingy I think. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 1 07:09:37 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 31 Jan 95 19:10:07 +0000 Subject: Compression Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4562 Lines: 98 On (30 Jan 95) Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk pedantically wrote... > Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 12:45:08 +0100 > From: Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk > On 29 Jan 95 00:14:26 +0000, Johnathan Taylor said: >> The .ARC extension is actually copyrighted! It belongs to System >> Enhancments Assosiations ie the people who wrote ARC/UNARC originally. > Excuse me... how on earth do you copyright a file extension?? I'll call > my files whatever I want, thank you... (and btw, a thing is "copyright" - > not "copyrighted" unless you are referring particularly to the action of > copyrighting it). This message is (C) Copyright 1995 Johnathan Taylor! The distribution license is as follows:- You are free to distrubute freely, read and copy as many times as you like, Or not at all. No charges for the intelectual contents of this message may be made but a reasonable fee for the transportation of it is acceptable. In a similar manner a file-extension used for the first time by a program can be covered by a Copyright and as I was refering to a past event I wrote in a past tense. In the example Copyright above whilst I was typing it I was Copyrighting it and after I had typed it and it's license it was Copyrighted by me if I did not perform the act of typing the copyright notice it would be legally public domain in most parts of the world, whilst in a couple of places just the fact that I wrote the message means that I'd still own the rights to the message and contents! And to save you disputing it here look up international copyright law first, you may be suprised about how all encompasing it is! >> .BAS is normally a non-tokenised BASIC source listing > Don't believe you. PC BASIC people save their programs as ".BAS" all the > time. I don't care if you believe me or not! IBM-PC Basic is NOT the original BASIC! Microsoft BASIC for CP/M was about before PC was even conceived and IS a non- tokenised language... >> .COM .EXE .CMD are binary executables *normally* > ".CMD" is the name given to batch files and/or REXX programs on OS/2, which > are ASCII and not binary. Der. I did say '*normally*', you do like to argue just for the sake of it don't you! .CMD ARE ORIGINALLY CP/M-86 BINARY EXECUTABLES! MUCH LATER OS/2 stole the extension for it's ASCII batch files also called REXX programs. understand? >> .PIC .PCX .GIF .FIF .TIF .JPG .IMG etc are all pre-defined extensions that >> infer a definate file structure to transfer graphics that should not be >> used unless the file complies with the required structure. > Then what is a ".PIC" file? I refer you to the paragraph it was mentioned in! It's a flippin graphics image file... sigh >> Why does the SAM *NEED* three character filename extensions on its own >> filesystem? The normal directory command shows exactly what type each >> file is as it already has the filetype in compressed form, why waste the >> name-length? > Because most of your average files are CODE files, and the directory > information which says "CODE 65238,112643" is of almost exactly no use > to you whatsoever. Autoexec CODE files also have an execute address attribute bits.... Programs DON'T need extensions anyway... only badly oganised users need them! The reason for me posting that list is NOT to dictate what users use on their own SAM's but to suggest extensions NOT to be placed on FTP sites unless they conform to the accepted norms for those extensions. I expect that one day people will leave the speccy programing behind and use featureless binary data-files ie OPENTYPE instead of ram-bound CODE files! OPENTYPE files are the nearest thing the SAM has to machine independant files. As such they can be directly uploaded and downloaded to and fro' FTP sites and BBS's without loss of contents! How would you feel if after you FTP'd a 100Megs of .au files to find out that they weren't sun .au files? or .tar.z files that weren't gzip'd tar archives? And before you say it .z IS a gzip'd extension .Z IS for a compressed files extension .gz is only required when sending a gzip'd tar to a brain-damaged 8.3 upper-case only filesystem like a PeeCee. And again don't bother trying to argue I KNOW this to be the case and won't take the bait! Johnathan. ... If everything is coming your way,you're in the wrong lane -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.