From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 1 07:09:36 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 01 Feb 95 00:28:41 +0000 Subject: Compression Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1039 Lines: 31 On (30 Jan 95) SPX3DMZ@cardiff.ac.uk wrote to All... > From: David Zambonini > Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 13:52:02 GMT > On Mon, 30 Jan 1995 14:26:24 +0100 (MET), Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no said: > Or.. or.. what about SAVE ,, you wouldn't be seen dead in public giving it>,, author's name>,,, jupiter>,,,,<..etc. etc.... > I reckon I personally could fit this file id quite nicely into say... > ooohh.. 5 megs. What no creation date? maybe distance to jupiter should be the current distance as a pretty unique and re-calculatable date-stamp;-) or is that what the entry is for:) > What about it?... :) Go for it! ... Time lords say, "Go ahead, make my yesterday". -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 1 07:09:37 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 31 Jan 95 19:10:07 +0000 Subject: Compression Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4562 Lines: 98 On (30 Jan 95) Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk pedantically wrote... > Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 12:45:08 +0100 > From: Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk > On 29 Jan 95 00:14:26 +0000, Johnathan Taylor said: >> The .ARC extension is actually copyrighted! It belongs to System >> Enhancments Assosiations ie the people who wrote ARC/UNARC originally. > Excuse me... how on earth do you copyright a file extension?? I'll call > my files whatever I want, thank you... (and btw, a thing is "copyright" - > not "copyrighted" unless you are referring particularly to the action of > copyrighting it). This message is (C) Copyright 1995 Johnathan Taylor! The distribution license is as follows:- You are free to distrubute freely, read and copy as many times as you like, Or not at all. No charges for the intelectual contents of this message may be made but a reasonable fee for the transportation of it is acceptable. In a similar manner a file-extension used for the first time by a program can be covered by a Copyright and as I was refering to a past event I wrote in a past tense. In the example Copyright above whilst I was typing it I was Copyrighting it and after I had typed it and it's license it was Copyrighted by me if I did not perform the act of typing the copyright notice it would be legally public domain in most parts of the world, whilst in a couple of places just the fact that I wrote the message means that I'd still own the rights to the message and contents! And to save you disputing it here look up international copyright law first, you may be suprised about how all encompasing it is! >> .BAS is normally a non-tokenised BASIC source listing > Don't believe you. PC BASIC people save their programs as ".BAS" all the > time. I don't care if you believe me or not! IBM-PC Basic is NOT the original BASIC! Microsoft BASIC for CP/M was about before PC was even conceived and IS a non- tokenised language... >> .COM .EXE .CMD are binary executables *normally* > ".CMD" is the name given to batch files and/or REXX programs on OS/2, which > are ASCII and not binary. Der. I did say '*normally*', you do like to argue just for the sake of it don't you! .CMD ARE ORIGINALLY CP/M-86 BINARY EXECUTABLES! MUCH LATER OS/2 stole the extension for it's ASCII batch files also called REXX programs. understand? >> .PIC .PCX .GIF .FIF .TIF .JPG .IMG etc are all pre-defined extensions that >> infer a definate file structure to transfer graphics that should not be >> used unless the file complies with the required structure. > Then what is a ".PIC" file? I refer you to the paragraph it was mentioned in! It's a flippin graphics image file... sigh >> Why does the SAM *NEED* three character filename extensions on its own >> filesystem? The normal directory command shows exactly what type each >> file is as it already has the filetype in compressed form, why waste the >> name-length? > Because most of your average files are CODE files, and the directory > information which says "CODE 65238,112643" is of almost exactly no use > to you whatsoever. Autoexec CODE files also have an execute address attribute bits.... Programs DON'T need extensions anyway... only badly oganised users need them! The reason for me posting that list is NOT to dictate what users use on their own SAM's but to suggest extensions NOT to be placed on FTP sites unless they conform to the accepted norms for those extensions. I expect that one day people will leave the speccy programing behind and use featureless binary data-files ie OPENTYPE instead of ram-bound CODE files! OPENTYPE files are the nearest thing the SAM has to machine independant files. As such they can be directly uploaded and downloaded to and fro' FTP sites and BBS's without loss of contents! How would you feel if after you FTP'd a 100Megs of .au files to find out that they weren't sun .au files? or .tar.z files that weren't gzip'd tar archives? And before you say it .z IS a gzip'd extension .Z IS for a compressed files extension .gz is only required when sending a gzip'd tar to a brain-damaged 8.3 upper-case only filesystem like a PeeCee. And again don't bother trying to argue I KNOW this to be the case and won't take the bait! Johnathan. ... If everything is coming your way,you're in the wrong lane -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From imc Wed Feb 1 10:45:33 1995 Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 10:45:33 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Johnathan Taylor" at Jan 31, 95 7:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 3880 Lines: 91 On 31 Jan 95 19:10:07 +0000, Johnathan Taylor said: > On (30 Jan 95) Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk pedantically wrote... > > Excuse me... how on earth do you copyright a file extension?? > This message is (C) Copyright 1995 Johnathan Taylor! > In a similar manner a file-extension used for the first time by a program can > be covered by a Copyright This does not follow logically. You placed the copyright notice within an intellectual work, but it is pretty difficult to place one within a file extension. Copyrights protect your works of art/literature from being stolen. Patents protect your inventions from being stolen. Trademarks protect you from improper association. None of these seems to cover the file names that people use to name their own files. > if I did > not perform the act of typing the copyright notice it would be legally public > domain in most parts of the world, whilst in a couple of places just the fact > that I wrote the message means that I'd still own the rights to the message and > contents! As far as I know, in this country your work is copyright regardless of whether you place an explicit copyright notice on it. > >> .BAS is normally a non-tokenised BASIC source listing > > Don't believe you. PC BASIC people save their programs as ".BAS" all the > > time. > I don't care if you believe me or not! IBM-PC Basic is NOT the original BASIC! > Microsoft BASIC for CP/M was about before PC was even conceived and IS a non- > tokenised language... Um... the fact that something was the case 15 years ago does not seem to imply that it is "normally" the case! > .CMD ARE ORIGINALLY CP/M-86 BINARY EXECUTABLES! MUCH LATER OS/2 stole the > extension for it's ASCII batch files also called REXX programs. Ditto. > > Then what is a ".PIC" file? > I refer you to the paragraph it was mentioned in! It's a flippin > graphics image file... sigh I know that, but what I wanted to know was what format it is in, which you neglected to mention. > >> Why does the SAM *NEED* three character filename extensions on its own > >> filesystem? > > Because most of your average files are CODE files, and the directory > > information which says "CODE 65238,112643" is of almost exactly no use > > to you whatsoever. > Autoexec CODE files also have an execute address attribute bits.... That's correct, but it doesn't show up in the DIR listing. > I expect that one day people will leave the speccy programing behind and use > featureless binary data-files ie OPENTYPE instead of ram-bound CODE files! Possible, but irrelevant. And "this is a featureless file of length 52346" gives even less information than "CODE 65238,112643"! > How would you feel if after you FTP'd a 100Megs of .au files to find out that > they weren't sun .au files? Precisely! This is exactly why we are discussing file types here. Earlier you seemed to suggest that they were unnecessary. This is not the case, as you now admit. There is a huge difference between the following files, which is only evident by the filetype. sample.au 221 CODE 65238,112643 sample.pak221 CODE 65238,112643 > And before you say it .z IS a gzip'd extension .Z IS for a compressed files > extension .gz is only required when sending a gzip'd tar to a brain-damaged 8.3 > upper-case only filesystem like a PeeCee. And again don't bother trying to > argue I KNOW this to be the case and won't take the bait! It is not true (and I KNOW this to be the case). All modern versions of gzip use ".gz". ".gz" is the official filetype for gzipped files. The reason why it was changed from ".z" was nothing to do with the PC. It was because ".z" was already in use by another utility, namely "pack". So there. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 1 12:39:57 1995 From: Frode Tennebo Message-Id: <199502011228.AA02767@ulke.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Compression To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 13:28:36 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 31, 95 08:12:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1463 Lines: 44 > Yeah, but it was everyone saying "Do it with this and that and the > other", but with no technical details. > > Like, people saying "Do it like the Unix INODE structure, with 32 bit > inodes". > Not having ever hacked the UNIX file structure, and not relishing the > idea of hacking the linuxx source, I seem to not be able to find anything > about it... Hum, it's quite well documented in books on unix and operating- systems in general. I'd really like to help you, SI, but for me to type in everything I know about the unix file-system and it's structure will take hours (I had a 6 hours exam on it once), and I think that this is not the best use of my time (no offence). Besides I have a cold! > > So, if anyone's willing to spoon-feed me on this one? If you'r really lost, I could try to find some references for you. The only one I've got in my head is: Unix System Administration Handbook by Nemeth, Snyder & Seebass A very good book in most respect, but does not go very deep in technical details. > > Simon > > ps Anyone know anything about the OS/2 HPFS system? Nope, but you don't suggest going OS/2???? > > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | Parkv. 31, 6400 Molde, NORWAY | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +47 712 57716 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 1 18:43:09 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: Compression Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 17:03:00 PST Message-Id: <2F304329@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 15 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 217 Lines: 15 > UNSUBSCRIBE CMSISLA1@LIVJM.AC.UK > > Please ! Hmmm.. Was this: a) Arnt/Frode trying to dispose of Ian. b) Ian trying to get the hell out. We know where you live Mr Slavin ;) BlagMan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 2 13:12:47 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 12:59:34 +0100 X400-Originator: CMSISLA1%liverpool-john-moores.ac.uk@hubby.liverpool-john-moores.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<95020212593006@vax.livjm.ac.uk>] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Compression From: " (Whicked Child ! Two mail messages would be an extravegance !)" Message-Id: <95020212593006@vax.livjm.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Compression X-Vms-To: SMTP%"sam-users@nvg.unit.no" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 414 Lines: 20 >> UNSUBSCRIBE CMSISLA1@LIVJM.AC.UK >> Please ! >Hmmm.. >Was this: > a) Arnt/Frode trying to dispose of Ian. > b) Ian trying to get the hell out. No, it was a desperate bid for freedom ! I didn't expect my Vax account to get blown out of the Uni ! >We know where you live Mr Slavin ;) Okay, okay... I'll send you the Cheque... >BlagMan. I know where you live too, Dan... Ian 8D From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 2 17:24:57 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Hello? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 17:14:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 32 Lines: 4 Anybody out there? Simon From imc Thu Feb 2 17:31:42 1995 Subject: Filing systems To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 17:31:42 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 31, 95 8:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 6042 Lines: 126 On Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:12:59 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > > > btw: If anybody would like to come up with details of how to store files > > > (I can handle directory structures dead easy) for the hard-drive, I'd be > > > most grateful. > > I thought we went through this a couple of months ago... > Yeah, but it was everyone saying "Do it with this and that and the > other", but with no technical details. Possibility 1. I thought we did go into quite a bit of detail. Possibility 2. You didn't ask. ;-) > So, if anyone's willing to spoon-feed me on this one? OK, I'll feed. Take it or leave it... This information comes from "Operating Systems: Design and Implementation" by A. S. Tanenbaum (Prentice-Hall International, 1987 ISBN 0-13-637331-3), by the way. It refers mostly to Minix, which has a slightly miniaturised file system. The disk is usually addressed in terms of 1K blocks. The only part of the system that knows about 512-byte sectors is the device driver. For addressing purposes within the filing system, the blocks are joined together into zones. Small disks (e.g. floppies) can have 1K zones so that "block" and "zone" means the same, but larger zones will probably be useful for very large disks. Zones have at least two advantages and at least two disadvantages. D1. Each file wastes on average half a zone, and very small files take up one zone each. D2. If the operating system allows one to write a file with holes in it then care must be taken to clear blocks at an appropriate time. For example, suppose that on a system with 4K zones someone creates a 1-byte file then seeks to address 4000 and writes another byte. The user will have written to the first and last blocks in a zone and the system will have cleared those. The system should make sure that the second and third blocks in the zone are also cleared so that the file does not contain garbage bytes. A1. Reading files sequentially is a bit faster when large zones are used, because the files have more blocks which are close to each other on the disk. A2. With 4K zones we only need 16 bits to write a disk address for a 256M disk, for example. (don't ask me why they didn't have 512-byte blocks...) A file is identified by its i-node. An i-node contains information about where the file is located on disk, how long it is and what its attributes are. A Minix i-node is 32 bytes long and contains the following information. size/bits description 16 Mode [file type and rwx bits] 16 Uid 32 File size 32 Time of last modification 8 Links [number of references to this file] 8 Gid 16 x 7 disk addresses of the first 7 zones in the file 16 Indirect disk address 16 Doubly indirect disk address If the file is 7 or fewer zones long, all the disk address information is stored in the i-node. If the file occupies between 7 and zones then the first 7 are listed in the i-node and a free zone is allocated to store the rest of the list. The number of the zone containing this list is stored as the indirect disk address. If the file is even bigger than that, then the remaining zones of the file are listed in free zones, the zones containing the lists are listed in another zone, and this zone number is stored as the doubly indirect disk address. The i-nodes are usually allocated and numbered when the file system is created and occupy a portion of the disk which is separate from the zones used to hold the data. i-node 0 is immediately cleared and marked as used and is never allocated (the "find free i-node" routine returns 0 on failure). A bitmap is used to define which i-nodes are currently used. Unless someone can spot a fatal flaw, it seems to me that if you don't feel happy with allocating the i-nodes first (it sets a maximum for the number of files on the system and might waste a bit of space if the maximum is not reached) you could store each file's i-node at the start of the file itself. In that case, instead of an i-node number for each file you have a zone number. However, this might make it more difficult to do consistency checks or to un-erase lost files. A directory is a simply a file which contains a list of names and numbers. To write a file, you write its data, fill in the i-node, and then write the name of the file and its i-node number in a directory. Most BSD filing systems have directories which can store names of varying lengths and which have entries looking approximately like this. position of next entry i-node number length of this record "name ending with nul character" It is possible to reference the same physical file in two different directories. The number of times a file is referenced is kept in the "link" field in the i-node. When a file is removed from a directory this number is decremented and the file itself may be erased when the link count reaches zero. A symbolic link is just a file containing the name of another file. The list of free zones may be kept in a bitmap or in a linked list (or both). Since the zones are free, it is OK to write in each zone the next zone number in the chain. If the linked list method is used and if erased files are moved to the end of the list each time then the most recently erased file will not have its blocks overwritten until the disk is nearly full, so before that it can be un-erased. For the i-nodes you might want to use a system which does not mark an i-node as free immediately when a file is erased. When i-nodes become short, you either do a garbage collection (collect all the i-nodes that have zero link fields) or keep a list of recently erased files so that their i-nodes can be reclaimed. Is that enough? > ps Anyone know anything about the OS/2 HPFS system? I'm sure someone does, but that person is not I. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 2 17:50:09 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 23:27:39 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502021727.AA04084@elm23.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: YES(b)(b)(b)(b)( From: Creature Feature! *P Message-Id: <9502021727.AA04084@elm23.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 458 Lines: 18 I'm here! Anyone want to wash my arse? Not very SAM Coupe-ish but ah well!!!! :) Anyone fancy making a device that shoots people who hate sams??? I could use it on a friend of mine! :) /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 2 17:54:34 1995 From: gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Message-Id: >From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 17:39:33 +0000 In-Reply-To: simonc -- "Hello?" (Feb 2, 5:14pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hello? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 199 Lines: 9 On Feb 2, 5:14pm in "Hello?", you warbled: ] Anybody out there? Oh _please_, don't do that again... last time I got 118 messages... Geoff So who has dishes that are soft as your face? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 2 18:13:03 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <9129.9502021737@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Hello? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 17:37:38 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 2, 95 05:14:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 98 Lines: 8 To Quote Simon Cooke : > Anybody out there? out there... out there.. there there air air From imc Fri Feb 3 10:26:39 1995 Subject: Re: YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 10:26:39 GMT In-Reply-To: <9502021727.AA04084@elm23.causeway.qub.ac.uk>; from "Creature Feature! *P" at Feb 2, 95 11:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 254 Lines: 7 On Thu, 2 Feb 1995 23:27:39 +0100, Creature Feature! *P said: > Anyone fancy making a device that shoots people who hate sams??? I could use > it on a friend of mine! :) I'm sure they already exist... just pop down to your local gun shop. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 3 11:41:20 1995 From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: .au files and the pleasures they bring. Date: Fri, 03 Feb 95 11:37:00 PST Message-Id: <2F328470@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 9 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 177 Lines: 9 Has anbody got a .au converter/player for DOS/Windows? We need to get one for a top blag involving: a. My manager b. His PC c. 3 monkey samples. Dan From imc Fri Feb 3 11:54:24 1995 Subject: Re: .au files and the pleasures they bring. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 11:54:24 GMT In-Reply-To: <2F328470@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" at Feb 3, 95 11:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 412 Lines: 12 On Fri, 03 Feb 95 11:37:00 PST, Doore, Daniel [MIS] said: > Has anbody got a .au converter/player for DOS/Windows? Try "sox" from http://multivac.ludd.luth.se/pub/sounds/SoundConversion/ . Oh... and for non-WWW people try FTP to ftp.ludd.luth.se and look in /pub/sounds/SoundConversion/ . Sox 5 (and I presume sox 7) can convert .au files to .VOC or .WAV files. It doesn't play them though. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 3 12:11:53 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Filing systems To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 12:00:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502021731.AA13730@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 2, 95 06:31:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 871 Lines: 28 > On Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:12:59 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > > Possibility 1. I thought we did go into quite a bit of detail. > Possibility 2. You didn't ask. ;-) True, I didn't ask for the full gen, but I got slightly lost in all the throwing around of INODE sizes :) > > So, if anyone's willing to spoon-feed me on this one? > > OK, I'll feed. Take it or leave it... > This information comes from "Operating Systems: Design and Implementation" > by A. S. Tanenbaum (Prentice-Hall International, 1987 ISBN 0-13-637331-3), > by the way. It refers mostly to Minix, which has a slightly miniaturised > file system. Thanks :) > Is that enough? Lemme digest it and I'll get back to you :) > > ps Anyone know anything about the OS/2 HPFS system? > > I'm sure someone does, but that person is not I. Thanks for your help, Simon From imc Fri Feb 3 12:17:12 1995 Subject: Re: Filing systems To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 12:17:12 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 3, 95 12:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 449 Lines: 10 PS Or you could just put the whole i-node in the directory (well, even the 32 bytes is nothing compared to the Sam's sector map... :-) ). If you do that, you had better not make multiple references to the same file though. CP/M uses a similar strategy (storing the file's type/mode and physical location in the directory) although the fact that it doesn't have indirect addressing means a large file uses a lot of directory space. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 3 15:21:17 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 14:58:22 GMT Subject: Re: .au files and the pleasures they bring. Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <165EEA737A6@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 701 Lines: 21 > From: "Doore, Daniel [MIS]" > To: sam-users > Subject: .au files and the pleasures they bring. > Date sent: Fri, 03 Feb 95 11:37:00 PST > Send reply to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > > Has anbody got a .au converter/player for DOS/Windows? > Alternatively, instead of using sox you could use goldwave, for windows, which plays and converts from a wide range of sound file types, with nifty editing features. It's available from quite a few gopher sites, or of course you could just ask me for a copy. DMZ === I wouldn't like to see a dish as soft as MY face, anyway.... yerk. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 3 15:47:51 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 16:33:14 +0100 X400-Originator: D.Zambonini@astronomy.cardiff.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/; Message-Id: To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Weapons... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Original-Sender: D.Zambonini@astronomy.cardiff.ac.uk Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 245 Lines: 9 May I suggest either an AK-97 with a grenade launcher attachment or perhaps, my weapon of choice, an egg whisk? Guarenteed to deal with all but the most stubborn of SAM - haters :) DMZ Is it hot in here, or is it just me? === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 3 16:38:57 1995 From: P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 17:26:43 +0100 X400-Originator: P.A.Finn-SE2@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<15107.9502031626@mungo.cs.bham.] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: .au files... Message-Id: <15107.9502031626@mungo.cs.bham.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: .au files and the pleasures they bring. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3936 Lines: 78 There is a program called 'playany' that can handle loads of sound files including .au's. I can't remember where I got it but I can uuencode if if ya want? Oh yeah, it's for dos. Paul. *** *** *** *** *** --------------------- ****** *** *** *** | paf@cs.bham.ac.uk | *** *** *** *** *** --------------------- *** *** *** *** *** PUT YOUR FAITH IN A LOUD GUITAR From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 24 20:01:32 1995 Return-Path: Received: from comlab.oxford.ac.uk (mail.comlab) by ecs.oxford.ac.uk (4.1/ecs.1) id AA29038; Fri, 24 Feb 95 20:01:31 GMT Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk by comlab.oxford.ac.uk id AA04584; Fri, 24 Feb 95 20:01:15 GMT Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <16202-0@oxmail.ox.ac.uk>; Fri, 24 Feb 1995 20:00:30 +0000 Received: (from bin@localhost) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no (8.6.10/8.6.9) id UAA20739 for sam-users-outgoing; Fri, 24 Feb 1995 20:57:57 +0100 Received: from runix.runit.sintef.no (runix.runit.sintef.no [129.241.1.5]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA20730 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 1995 20:57:43 +0100 X400-Received: by mta runix.runit.sintef.no in /PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/; Relayed; Fri, 24 Feb 1995 20:57:29 +0100 X400-Received: by /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/; Relayed; Fri, 24 Feb 1995 20:56:27 +0100 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Fri, 24 Feb 1995 16:29:23 +0100 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Fri, 24 Feb 1995 16:29:50 +0100 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Fri, 24 Feb 1995 16:29:44 +0100 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/; Relayed; Fri, 24 Feb 1995 21:29:38 +0100 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 21:29:38 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502241529.AA08091@elm23.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: C64 From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502241529.AA08091@elm23.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: C64 Sender: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: OR What is the possibility of a C64 emulator???? Not that the Speccy isn't good enough but, a friend of mine has loads of C64 games and I thought if it was possible to get them onto my SAM then it would save me alot of bother searching around for Speccy/SAM games! :) THANX! P.S. The C64 isn't that bad, but feel free to send as many anti-C64 comments as you feel neccessary (or otherwise!! :) but don't go on tooooooooo long! P.P.S. Giant .sig on its way!!!! ================================================================================ ======== ======== ====== /> ====== ===== ( //---------------------------------------------------\ ===== ===== (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ===== ===== ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ ===== ====== \> ====== ======== ======== ================================================================================ ====================* Ronan FitzGerald: u9350276@qub.ac.uk *==================== =============================* Tel: (01232) 668261 *============================ ================================================================================ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 7 13:02:51 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Speccy Files Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 12:38:00 PST Message-Id: <2F37D8B0@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 7 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 179 Lines: 7 Anbody know of any good FTP sites that have Speccy snapshots on 'em? I had a bash with Gopher but that turned up bog all, and I STILL cannot get into nvg!!!! Dan Doore From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 7 13:42:23 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 14:19:36 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<4421.9502071319@sun.aston.ac.uk] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Speccy Fi... From: goringgn Message-Id: <4421.9502071319@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Speccy Files X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 159 Lines: 10 ftp.ijs.si has a lot of speccy games. Try after six, but you might be lucky now. oh, and i can get in nvg! Nerr! (gorrany conversions?) Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 7 19:52:18 1995 Message-Id: <23175.199502071657@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Speccy Files To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 16:57:10 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <2F37D8B0@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 7, 95 12:38:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 639 Lines: 21 > > > Anbody know of any good FTP sites that have Speccy snapshots on 'em? > > I had a bash with Gopher but that turned up bog all, and I STILL cannot > get into nvg!!!! > > Dan Doore > I'm probably being silly, but check you're giving the login name as "anonymous" and the password as your e-mail address (although this is optional; the password can be anything you like). I get into nvg using WS_FTP Socket for MS Windows (on the Vet School's Viglen IBM PC cluster). Hope this helps... Will Easson Internet: 9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk Snail Mail: Flat 3, 12 Southpark Terrace, Glasgow, G12 8LG, Scotland, UK. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 7 21:32:54 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 21:30:12 GMT Subject: Re: Speccy Files Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <1CC860D4A6A@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 615 Lines: 19 > Anbody know of any good FTP sites that have Speccy snapshots on 'em? > I had a bash with Gopher but that turned up bog all, and I STILL cannot > get into nvg!!!! > > Dan Doore > Nope. One of our universities' sysops (hallowed be his name... NOT) has now completey cocked up the name server... which means that not only is access to nvg denied, but most Gopher sites now refuse to believe that we have an .ac.uk domain... brilliant.. Oh, the .SNA/.Z80/Emulator programs' still coming along fine... especially now I found some proper detailed techie info on Z80s in general.. DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 8 08:20:43 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502080805.AA10755@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Speccy Files To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 09:05:51 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <23175.199502071657@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> from "William Easson" at Feb 7, 95 04:57:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 668 Lines: 14 > I'm probably being silly, but check you're giving the login name as > "anonymous" and the password as your e-mail address (although this is > optional; the password can be anything you like). Well, the easiest way is to type 'ftp' as your login, but at nvg your address must be valid. Try 'joe@' ( the rest will be added). -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 8 15:31:16 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Time Warp... Date: Wed, 08 Feb 95 14:39:00 PST Message-Id: <2F394F78@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 5 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 122 Lines: 5 I have just got about 10 messages from 18-19th January which is a bit bizzare - was it just me or what? Dan Doore From imc Wed Feb 8 15:36:56 1995 Subject: Re: Time Warp... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 15:36:56 GMT In-Reply-To: <2F394F78@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 8, 95 2:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 219 Lines: 7 On Wed, 08 Feb 95 14:39:00 PST, Doore, Dan [MIS] said: > I have just got about 10 messages from 18-19th January which is > a bit bizzare - was it just me or what? Must be your rubbish internet link... :-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 8 17:24:38 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 23:04:32 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502081704.AA04353@bot34.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: RE: TIME WARP From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502081704.AA04353@bot34.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: TIME WARP Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 470 Lines: 19 Dan! You are on drugs my dear boy! Keep off the glue and the 'shrooms! Wait a second.... take as much as you like! They're good for you! Well that's what my mum used to say! :) Adios compadres! /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 9 11:43:05 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 11:35:16 GMT Subject: RE: TIME WARP Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <1F2A18A1A87@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 518 Lines: 17 > Dan! You are on drugs my dear boy! > > Keep off the glue and the 'shrooms! > > Wait a second.... take as much as you like! They're good for you! > > Well that's what my mum used to say! :) > > Adios compadres! Hmmm... what she no doubt neglected to mention is that youy could end up with a particularly vicious red with white spots type mushroom glued to your forehead.... remember kids, it isn't worth it.. (unless, of course, you get it from me at practically cost...) :) DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 9 12:48:24 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: TiMe WaRp Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 12:28:00 PST Message-Id: <2F3A7964@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 22 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 739 Lines: 22 > Hmmm... what she no doubt neglected to mention is that youy could end > up with a particularly vicious red with white spots type mushroom > glued to your forehead.... remember kids, it isn't worth it.. > (unless, of course, you get it from me at practically cost...) :) Less talk of mushrooms - my breakfast consisted of many of the greasy little blighters (not wanting to start the brekkie debate again) :) With the current talk of Z80/SNA converters (notably by David) I remember in an old issue of Format that Lords Of Midnight wouldn't snapshot to disc, Why was this? And if so why have I got a LORDSOM.SNA file if it's not supposed to work. Could be 'cos it was snapped on a PC. Dan. > DMZ > === > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 9 12:55:23 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 18:43:06 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502091243.AA00582@bot32.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: RE: TIME WARP From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502091243.AA00582@bot32.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: TIME WARP Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 870 Lines: 30 DMZ's comment: > Hmmm... what she no doubt neglected to mention is that youy could end > up with a particularly vicious red with white spots type mushroom >glued to your forehead.... remember kids, it isn't worth it.. > (unless, of course, you get it from me at practically cost...) :) Just one comment: My name is Ronan FizGerald (for all who missed this before!!! :) I am a male human! Therefore "she" is wrong! OK? I'll shove a C64 up the arse of the next person who suggests such a thing again! Not that I'm anti-girly but I just don't like to be refered to as one! :) HUH! /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 9 13:26:53 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 14:05:36 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<16076.9502091305@sun.aston.ac.u] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: RE: TIME WARP From: goringgn Message-Id: <16076.9502091305@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: TIME WARP X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 719 Lines: 26 > DMZ's comment: > > > Hmmm... what she no doubt neglected to mention is that youy could end > > up with a particularly vicious red with white spots type mushroom > >glued to your forehead.... remember kids, it isn't worth it.. > > (unless, of course, you get it from me at practically cost...) :) > > Just one comment: > > My name is Ronan FizGerald (for all who missed this before!!! :) > > I am a male human! > > Therefore "she" is wrong! OK? > > I'll shove a C64 up the arse of the next person who suggests such a thing again! > > Not that I'm anti-girly but I just don't like to be refered to as one! :) > > HUH! Ronan is a girly! Ronan is a girly! :) Just kiddin' Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 9 13:51:40 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 13:33:14 GMT Subject: RE: TIME WARP Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <1F498FC7BDA@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2070 Lines: 55 > > Hmmm... what she no doubt neglected to mention is that youy could end > > up with a particularly vicious red with white spots type mushroom > >glued to your forehead.... remember kids, it isn't worth it.. > > (unless, of course, you get it from me at practically cost...) :) Oh dear! Typo! Honest!...... It wasn't my fault, you see... I was stuck up on a cruddy little 386SX with a dodgy keyboard, hence, you will notice, the 'youy'.. It certainly wouldn't be like ME to make a grammar or spelling mistkea. :) > Just one comment: > > My name is Ronan FizGerald (for all who missed this before!!! :) I am aware of this fact. > I am a male human! The 'human' may be stretching it a bit, but.... :) > Therefore "she" is wrong! OK? Typo. :) > I'll shove a C64 up the arse of the next person who suggests such a thing again! Hmmm... I'd be careful, if I were you, there are some people that enjoy that sort of thing..... :) And now... onto Mr.Doore's comments... (notice the Mr., you see, I do get it right sometimes.. :) ) what on earth have you got against mushrooms?? :) As for the .SNA/.Z80 convertor, I ain't got a clue why my version had a variable not found, shoddy programming, perhaps? :) Sigh. have to spend longer on them next time.... I'll have a look at the files you sent me ( for all those that didn't send me these files.. Nebulus, Horace goes Skiing, and ermmm.... oh, what was it again???) I can guess what's up with the dodgy control on Nebulus:- its the same with Uridium+ :they both check ports for a sinclair 2 joystick even if you haven't selected one... which is fairly fatal on a SAM.. :) Funnily enough, I have got an emulation of Lords of Midnight on the SAM, loaded from Speccy tape.. and indeed night falls, breaking day permanently on the way... I believe there was meant to be a POKE that fixed this bug, but I don't know the cause or what the POKE was..... Yup, PCs are indeed strange beasts.... DMZ -- I wish to remain anomalous. === From imc Thu Feb 9 14:21:53 1995 Subject: RE: TIME WARP To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 14:21:53 GMT In-Reply-To: <1F498FC7BDA@physx1s.cf.ac.uk>; from "David Zambonini" at Feb 9, 95 1:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1166 Lines: 23 On Thu, 9 Feb 1995 13:33:14 GMT, David Zambonini said: > Funnily enough, I have got an emulation of Lords of Midnight on the > SAM, loaded from Speccy tape.. and indeed night falls, breaking day > permanently on the way... I believe I can help you there. It turns out that Lords of Midnight seems to like printing out screenshots of the text that appears during the night. It does this by calling 0ECD. If you have an ordinary Spectrum ROM installed, then the first thing it will do is check port 251 to see whether the printer is installed. Unfortunately, this port means something on the Sam and it will give something like 5 as the answer. This makes the print routine think that a printer is attached and it will proceed to output various things to port 251 and wait for it to respond, which is generally a bad move. The answer is to do one of these things... 1. Install a Spectrum ROM that can print things out on a Sam printer. 2. Install a Spectrum ROM that never tries to print anything out. 3. Prevent the game from trying to print anything out. I believe the two calls to 0ECD are located at 63085 and 63109. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 9 16:36:21 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 20:54:33 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502091454.AA01716@bot32.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Alright I(092)'v From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502091454.AA01716@bot32.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Alright I?'ve been rumbled!!! Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 289 Lines: 13 A closet girly OK? GITS! /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 9 17:23:49 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: Alright I?'ve been rumbled!!! Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 16:51:00 PST Message-Id: <2F3AB6F7@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 19 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 362 Lines: 19 > A closet girly OK? heh heh heh > GITS! Of the worst kind :) /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==L=i=b=r=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> Oh Chase Me >:->> Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 9 17:48:45 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 17:27:48 GMT Subject: Re: Alright I?'ve been rumbled!!! Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-Id: <1F882BE3E1B@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 230 Lines: 11 > A closet girly OK? > > GITS! Aha! Never let it be said that I am not all knowing and all seeing.... Wish I'd never used that dodgy keyboard in the first place now.... :) DMZ -- I wish to remain anomalous === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 9 18:15:06 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 17:56:30 GMT Subject: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-Id: <1F8FD330A56@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2449 Lines: 137 Well, my holy quest for the Z800 has almost drawn to a close. As you may (or more than likely, may not) be aware, I have for many years now planned to customise the SAM by the replacement of the weakest part of the system... the CPU.. :) [ nb 'A Z8108 internally clocked at 24Mhz linked to a 6Mhz bus'] After a strenous search of our universities' VAST library (how DO you indicate a sarcastic tone of voice on an email message?... oh, never mind..) I have finally found.. the 1983/84 Zilog Data book, with full specs on the Z800 series. wow. I can see you're all impressed already. It would appear that my earlier theory that its just a straight cut and paste job, so to speak, was ever so slightly misguided. As I suspected, the Z8108 is indeed fully pin compatible with the Z80 (weeeelll... after you rearrange and demultiplex them, anyway.. )... execept for one teeny problem. Now, if you would all care to turn to your diagrams of the Z80... (pause for the rustle of papers), you will see it has a CLK input. No surprise there. In fact, the surprise would come if... oh, never mind... I'll get on with it.... To cut a long story short, as we are all well aware the ASIC dishes out the Z80's clock signal on the SAM, and thus the ASIC basically drives the bus (not in the literal sense of the word, but it requires exact timing, hence it gives the CPU clock). Now, if I were to place a Z800, which has a clock output, and a direct crystal/oscillator input, into this system, things get messy... especially since the Z800 requires double the clock input frequency that the bus is meant to run at. So all I need now is an accurate clock doubler that feeds from the ASIC into the two crystal inputs of the Z800, and reference it against its own clock output somehow so it gives its clock signals at exactly the same time the ASIC would dish out the clock signals to the Z80...... heeellllpppp! (Any suggestions, Si...? In the interests of inter-group diplomacy, obviously.... I'm just a poor coder who doesn't know much about hardware beyond the obvious bits... :) ) DMZ -- I'm doing quite a good job of remaining anomalous, actually.... === PS Please ignore this message.... :) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 07:05:34 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 06:53:57 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6621@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: TiMe WaRp X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 304 Lines: 10 Well LOM does some interesting things when night falls. ZX printer whirs, then it asks you if you want dawn. On old emuls this froze the machine. The new version of Z80 is OK if the printer is on line. Could this be why the thing falls over on other hardware? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 09:27:56 1995 From: Mr Andrew M Gale Message-Id: <9502100922.AA03335@central.surrey.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 9:22:56 GMT In-Reply-To: <1F8FD330A56@physx1s.cf.ac.uk>; from "David Zambonini" at Feb 9, 95 5:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2453 Lines: 49 > > Well, my holy quest for the Z800 has almost drawn to a close. > As you may (or more than likely, may not) be aware, I have for many > years now planned to customise the SAM by the replacement of the > weakest part of the system... the CPU.. :) > > [ nb 'A Z8108 internally clocked at 24Mhz linked to a 6Mhz bus'] > > After a strenous search of our universities' VAST library (how DO you > indicate a sarcastic tone of voice on an email message?... oh, never > mind..) I have finally found.. the 1983/84 Zilog Data book, with full > specs on the Z800 series. wow. I can see you're all impressed > already. > > It would appear that my earlier theory that its just a straight cut > and paste job, so to speak, was ever so slightly misguided. As I > suspected, the Z8108 is indeed fully pin compatible with the Z80 > (weeeelll... after you rearrange and demultiplex them, anyway.. )... > execept for one teeny problem. > > Now, if you would all care to turn to your diagrams of the Z80... > (pause for the rustle of papers), you will see it has a CLK input. > No surprise there. In fact, the surprise would come if... oh, never > mind... I'll get on with it.... To cut a long story short, as we are > all well aware the ASIC dishes out the Z80's clock signal on the SAM, > and thus the ASIC basically drives the bus (not in the literal sense > of the word, but it requires exact timing, hence it gives the CPU > clock). Now, if I were to place a Z800, which has a clock > output, and a direct crystal/oscillator input, into this system, > things get messy... especially since the Z800 requires double the > clock input frequency that the bus is meant to run at. So all I need now > is an accurate clock doubler that feeds from the ASIC into the two > crystal inputs of the Z800, and reference it against its own clock output > somehow so it gives its clock signals at exactly the same time the > ASIC would dish out the clock signals to the Z80...... > heeellllpppp! > > Could you get the clock using a phase-locked loop (PLL)? Set the PLL to 12MHz, divide the output by two and compare the divide signal with the ASIC's 6MHz output. Actually, I don't even know if you need to worry about tying the Z800 (can you actually still buy them?) clock to the SAM clock - the ASIC is going to insert wait states anyway, and its going to tie those wait to its own 6MHz clock. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 09:54:40 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502100944.AA00853@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:44:14 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <1F8FD330A56@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> from "David Zambonini" at Feb 9, 95 05:56:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3183 Lines: 74 > > Well, my holy quest for the Z800 has almost drawn to a close. > As you may (or more than likely, may not) be aware, I have for many > years now planned to customise the SAM by the replacement of the > weakest part of the system... the CPU.. :) > > [ nb 'A Z8108 internally clocked at 24Mhz linked to a 6Mhz bus'] Goody...but I believe that Si is working on a Z28000-thingy or something...what about a joint thing? > > After a strenous search of our universities' VAST library (how DO you > indicate a sarcastic tone of voice on an email message?... oh, never > mind..) I have finally found.. the 1983/84 Zilog Data book, with full > specs on the Z800 series. wow. I can see you're all impressed > already. *vast* ???? > > It would appear that my earlier theory that its just a straight cut > and paste job, so to speak, was ever so slightly misguided. As I > suspected, the Z8108 is indeed fully pin compatible with the Z80 > (weeeelll... after you rearrange and demultiplex them, anyway.. )... > execept for one teeny problem. Cut and paste, eh????? I had a hard time cutting and pasting my broken Z80B with another one.... > > Now, if you would all care to turn to your diagrams of the Z80... Wops..I only found the specs for the Z80000 - rather nice with pipelining, MMU, data and instruction cache, bundles of registres, etc :) > (pause for the rustle of papers), you will see it has a CLK input. > No surprise there. In fact, the surprise would come if... oh, never > mind... I'll get on with it.... To cut a long story short, as we are > all well aware the ASIC dishes out the Z80's clock signal on the SAM, > and thus the ASIC basically drives the bus (not in the literal sense > of the word, but it requires exact timing, hence it gives the CPU > clock). Now, if I were to place a Z800, which has a clock > output, and a direct crystal/oscillator input, into this system, > things get messy... especially since the Z800 requires double the > clock input frequency that the bus is meant to run at. So all I need now > is an accurate clock doubler that feeds from the ASIC into the two > crystal inputs of the Z800, and reference it against its own clock output > somehow so it gives its clock signals at exactly the same time the > ASIC would dish out the clock signals to the Z80...... > heeellllpppp! Errr...a clock _doubler_??? Doesn't the Z800 run at 24MhZ? > > (Any suggestions, Si...? In the interests of inter-group diplomacy, > obviously.... I'm just a poor coder who doesn't know much about > hardware beyond the obvious bits... :) ) > > DMZ -- I'm doing quite a good job of remaining anomalous, actually.... > === > [one million lines deleted] > PS Please ignore this message.... :) > Oh....and NOW you say it? -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From imc Fri Feb 10 10:45:36 1995 Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 10:45:36 GMT In-Reply-To: <9502100922.AA03335@central.surrey.ac.uk>; from "Mr Andrew M Gale" at Feb 10, 95 9:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 858 Lines: 17 On Fri, 10 Feb 95 9:22:56 GMT, Mr Andrew M Gale said: > > [ nb 'A Z8108 internally clocked at 24Mhz linked to a 6Mhz bus'] > Actually, I don't even know if you need to worry about tying > the Z800 (can you actually still buy them?) clock to the SAM > clock - the ASIC is going to insert wait states anyway, and > its going to tie those wait to its own 6MHz clock. Precisely what I thought. The minimum amount of time taken by a Z80 instruction on the Sam in 6MHz T-states is 4 times the number of RAM accesses (and that's with the screen turned off). If all you are doing is replacing the Z80 by a Z_something_else then instructions which have a lot of logic and a little memory access (like ADD HL,BC) will speed up, but most instructions (like NOP) will hardly speed up at all unless you store them in ROM or in extended memory. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 10:48:58 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:43:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502100922.AA03335@central.surrey.ac.uk> from "Mr Andrew M Gale" at Feb 10, 95 09:22:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 709 Lines: 19 > > Could you get the clock using a phase-locked loop (PLL)? > Set the PLL to 12MHz, divide the output by two and compare the > divide signal with the ASIC's 6MHz output. Nawww.. just stick an edge-triggered bistable into the circuit -- two in series will create a neat little 24MHz output (I think...) > Actually, I don't even know if you need to worry about tying > the Z800 (can you actually still buy them?) clock to the SAM > clock - the ASIC is going to insert wait states anyway, and > its going to tie those wait to its own 6MHz clock. Well, Colin PIggot tried it with an 8MHz Z80C and the ASIC /did not/ want to know. The bus, it seems, has to be at 6MHz... Simon Cooke From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 10:59:06 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:48:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <1F8FD330A56@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> from "David Zambonini" at Feb 9, 95 05:56:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1102 Lines: 26 > [ nb 'A Z8108 internally clocked at 24Mhz linked to a 6Mhz bus'] > > After a strenous search of our universities' VAST library (how DO you > indicate a sarcastic tone of voice on an email message?... oh, never > mind..) I have finally found.. the 1983/84 Zilog Data book, with full > specs on the Z800 series. wow. I can see you're all impressed > already. > > It would appear that my earlier theory that its just a straight cut > and paste job, so to speak, was ever so slightly misguided. As I > suspected, the Z8108 is indeed fully pin compatible with the Z80 > (weeeelll... after you rearrange and demultiplex them, anyway.. )... > execept for one teeny problem. That problem being where to buy them from. I've been trying to get a bloody Z84c0020 for a good couple of years now. > (Any suggestions, Si...? In the interests of inter-group diplomacy, > obviously.... I'm just a poor coder who doesn't know much about > hardware beyond the obvious bits... :) ) Try a couple of edge triggered flip flops in series.. that's my best guess for it... Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 11:08:07 1995 From: Nigel J Kettlewell Message-Id: <6866.199502101059@gimble> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:59:14 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9502101045.AA17031@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 11:45:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 743 Lines: 19 > Precisely what I thought. The minimum amount of time taken by a Z80 > instruction on the Sam in 6MHz T-states is 4 times the number of RAM > accesses (and that's with the screen turned off). If all you are doing > is replacing the Z80 by a Z_something_else then instructions which have a > lot of logic and a little memory access (like ADD HL,BC) will speed up, > but most instructions (like NOP) will hardly speed up at all unless you > store them in ROM or in extended memory. This is true of just about any processor, though - accessing memory is the slowest thing it can possibly do (barring floating point, perhaps) and the only way to sort it out is to add cache memory or get faster RAM... > > imc > Nige From imc Fri Feb 10 11:14:45 1995 Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 11:14:45 GMT In-Reply-To: <6866.199502101059@gimble>; from "Nigel J Kettlewell" at Feb 10, 95 10:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 458 Lines: 10 On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:59:14 +0000 (GMT), Nigel J Kettlewell said: > This is true of just about any processor, though - accessing memory is > the slowest thing it can possibly do (barring floating point, perhaps) True. However, in this case the ASIC makes the problem worse by limiting access to one every 4 6MHz cycles even though the Z80 can manage one every 3 cycles (which is I think still five times as long as the RAM's access time). imc From imc Fri Feb 10 11:28:34 1995 Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 11:28:34 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 10, 95 10:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 290 Lines: 8 On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:43:54 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: >Nawww.. just stick an edge-triggered bistable into the circuit -- two in >series will create a neat little 24MHz output (I think...) Do you mean an edge-triggered monostable? If not, how do you expect it to work? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 11:39:34 1995 From: Nigel J Kettlewell Message-Id: <6984.199502101125@gimble> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:25:42 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9502101114.AA17192@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 12:14:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1030 Lines: 28 > > On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:59:14 +0000 (GMT), Nigel J Kettlewell said: > > This is true of just about any processor, though - accessing memory is > > the slowest thing it can possibly do (barring floating point, perhaps) > > True. However, in this case the ASIC makes the problem worse by limiting > access to one every 4 6MHz cycles even though the Z80 can manage one every > 3 cycles (which is I think still five times as long as the RAM's access > time). OK, so how about putting in your own RAM as well as a new CPU? Memory's cheap, despite what SAMCo et al used to charge for it. That way, surely you could stop the CPU caring what the ASIC says about RAM? I'm probably wrong, as I've not really done much SAM stuff for _ages_. > > imc > Nige -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "You've got to look at it from a fork's point of view" (Dr Steve Matthews) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From imc Fri Feb 10 12:02:46 1995 Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 12:02:46 GMT In-Reply-To: <6984.199502101125@gimble>; from "Nigel J Kettlewell" at Feb 10, 95 11:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 585 Lines: 11 On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:25:42 +0000 (GMT), Nigel J Kettlewell said: > OK, so how about putting in your own RAM as well as a new CPU? Memory's > cheap, despite what SAMCo et al used to charge for it. That way, surely you > could stop the CPU caring what the ASIC says about RAM? This is what Simon proposed some time ago (that is, adding a souped up CPU and a chunk of memory, neither of which the ASIC knows anything about, and some kind of linkage which allows the new CPU to write to the Sam's memory if it wants (which it has to do in order to display a picture)). imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 12:32:45 1995 From: Nigel J Kettlewell Message-Id: <7404.199502101211@gimble> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:11:40 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9502101202.AA17429@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 13:02:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1045 Lines: 27 > > On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:25:42 +0000 (GMT), Nigel J Kettlewell said: > > OK, so how about putting in your own RAM as well as a new CPU? Memory's > > cheap, despite what SAMCo et al used to charge for it. That way, surely you > > could stop the CPU caring what the ASIC says about RAM? > > This is what Simon proposed some time ago (that is, adding a souped up CPU > and a chunk of memory, neither of which the ASIC knows anything about, and > some kind of linkage which allows the new CPU to write to the Sam's memory > if it wants (which it has to do in order to display a picture)). I thought it sounded a bit familiar. Could be good, though. SAM's memory would become nothing but video memory then, though not particularly fast for video memory. > > imc > Nige -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "You've got to look at it from a fork's point of view" (Dr Steve Matthews) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 12:48:14 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502101214.AA01870@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:14:19 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <7404.199502101211@gimble> from "Nigel J Kettlewell" at Feb 10, 95 12:11:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 639 Lines: 20 > > I thought it sounded a bit familiar. Could be good, though. SAM's memory > would become nothing but video memory then, though not particularly fast for > video memory. > How about that - 512K of VRAM. We are aproaching SVGA here guys.... Oh, BTW: Where are the dolls???? > > Nige > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 13:03:30 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:58:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502101202.AA17429@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 01:02:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 832 Lines: 20 > On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:25:42 +0000 (GMT), Nigel J Kettlewell said: > > OK, so how about putting in your own RAM as well as a new CPU? Memory's > > cheap, despite what SAMCo et al used to charge for it. That way, surely you > > could stop the CPU caring what the ASIC says about RAM? > > This is what Simon proposed some time ago (that is, adding a souped up CPU > and a chunk of memory, neither of which the ASIC knows anything about, and > some kind of linkage which allows the new CPU to write to the Sam's memory > if it wants (which it has to do in order to display a picture)). > > imc And as soon as we can get hold of that damned 20MHz Z80, we'll build one too... the only problem I can see is the Dynamic RAM refresh circuitry. Anyone know any reference text that's perfect for the job? Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 13:08:12 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:57:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <6984.199502101125@gimble> from "Nigel J Kettlewell" at Feb 10, 95 11:25:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 950 Lines: 21 > > On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:59:14 +0000 (GMT), Nigel J Kettlewell said: > > > This is true of just about any processor, though - accessing memory is > > > the slowest thing it can possibly do (barring floating point, perhaps) > > > > True. However, in this case the ASIC makes the problem worse by limiting > > access to one every 4 6MHz cycles even though the Z80 can manage one every > > 3 cycles (which is I think still five times as long as the RAM's access > > time). > > OK, so how about putting in your own RAM as well as a new CPU? Memory's > cheap, despite what SAMCo et al used to charge for it. That way, surely you > could stop the CPU caring what the ASIC says about RAM? > > I'm probably wrong, as I've not really done much SAM stuff for _ages_. THat's the idea behind /my/ accelerator -- it has a faster processor *and* superfast shadow RAM that only refers back to the ASIC when it's writing data. Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 13:12:25 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:56:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502101128.AA17243@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 12:28:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 521 Lines: 13 > On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:43:54 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > >Nawww.. just stick an edge-triggered bistable into the circuit -- two in > >series will create a neat little 24MHz output (I think...) > > Do you mean an edge-triggered monostable? If not, how do you expect > it to work? Yep -- one thing you've got to remember, I just had my brain pumped full of Quantum Mechanics and ladder operators and perturbation theory when I wrote that -- So you can expect me to be a little off base :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 13:36:38 1995 From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:00:30 +0000 (WET) In-Reply-To: <9502101202.AA17429@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 01:02:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502101300.aa14080@almaren.ee.surrey.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 952 Lines: 20 > > On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:25:42 +0000 (GMT), Nigel J Kettlewell said: > > OK, so how about putting in your own RAM as well as a new CPU? Memory's > > cheap, despite what SAMCo et al used to charge for it. That way, surely you > > could stop the CPU caring what the ASIC says about RAM? > > This is what Simon proposed some time ago (that is, adding a souped up CPU > and a chunk of memory, neither of which the ASIC knows anything about, and > some kind of linkage which allows the new CPU to write to the Sam's memory > if it wants (which it has to do in order to display a picture)). > You could be really cock-eyed and have split the memory banks - let the ASIC deal with the lower 256K and the new processor deal with the top 256K as fast as it likes. Ok, this means that any video data will have to be in the lower 256K. Just think of all that refresh-logic, bank switching circuitry that you'd have to design..... -AG From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 13:38:09 1995 From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:04:34 +0000 (WET) In-Reply-To: <1F8FD330A56@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> from "David Zambonini" at Feb 9, 95 05:56:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502101304.aa14288@almaren.ee.surrey.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 281 Lines: 8 Actually, considering the hassle that there would be with coding, why not fit a 68008 instead of a z8xxxxx? They're cheap, 8-bit, readily available and, with a bit of fiddling with the screen, perhaps you could run QL stuff. Far too much effort, methinks. Or a Pentium. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 14:34:38 1995 From: ee31ag@mcs.surrey.ac.uk Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:58:03 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 10, 95 12:58:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502101358.aa25043@shadowfax.mcs.surrey.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 533 Lines: 12 > > the only problem I can see is the Dynamic RAM refresh circuitry. Anyone > know any reference text that's perfect for the job? > Yes - I shall see if I can find the damned book again. Would you refresh all addresses in one chunk, pausing the processor for a moment, or interleave it with the genuine memory fetches - like the z80's 7-bit refresh does at the moment? If the latter, then you may be able to derive the extra 3 bits usind a divider - but then the gaps between the refreshes may be too long. I dunno. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 14:39:42 1995 From: ee31ag@mcs.surrey.ac.uk Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 14:01:20 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <1F8FD330A56@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> from "David Zambonini" at Feb 9, 95 05:56:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502101401.aa25232@shadowfax.mcs.surrey.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 404 Lines: 9 If we are going to the trouble of shadow ram and all the paging and refreshing nonsense that that involves, why not just build a faster video display - just modes 3 and 4 for simplicity. Then there's no need to replace the RAM, and the colour encoder is already there. Also, the video circuitry will refresh the RAM everytime it does a read, so there's no need for a seperate refresh circuit. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 14:40:50 1995 Message-Id: <22534.9502101355@rs6-233.cls-4.bcc.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:55:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Mr Keith Turner In-Reply-To: <9502101304.aa14288@almaren.ee.surrey.ac.uk> from "ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 01:04:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 768 Lines: 22 > Actually, considering the hassle that there would > be with coding, why not fit a 68008 instead of a z8xxxxx? > They're cheap, 8-bit, readily available and, with a bit > of fiddling with the screen, perhaps you could run QL > stuff. Far too much effort, methinks. > > Or a Pentium. Don't mention the Pentium. No, what you need is a PPC 601 PowerPC chip. That would probably emulate a fast Z80 and a lot of ASIC functions faster than the real thing. But getting back to reality briefly, I don't think Simon and chums were thinking of emulation, I think they wanted a chip which would speak z80 opcodes directly. /; from "Mr Keith Turner" at Feb 10, 95 1:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 324 Lines: 8 On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:55:37 +0000 (GMT), Mr Keith Turner said: > But getting back to reality briefly, I don't think Simon and chums > were thinking of emulation, I think they wanted a chip which would > speak z80 opcodes directly. Then perhaps what you need is an SPO256 [obscure joke for with-it people...] imc From imc Fri Feb 10 14:47:16 1995 Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 14:47:16 GMT In-Reply-To: <9502101401.aa25232@shadowfax.mcs.surrey.ac.uk>; from "ee31ag@mcs.surrey.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 2:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 855 Lines: 17 On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 14:01:20 +0000 (GMT), ee31ag@mcs.surrey.ac.uk said: > If we are going to the trouble of shadow ram and all > the paging and refreshing nonsense that that involves, > why not just build a faster video display - just modes > 3 and 4 for simplicity. Then there's no need to replace > the RAM, and the colour encoder is already there. "faster video display" - what's that? Clearly it has to output the picture at the same speed if it wants a TV to understand it, and since it needs to read 4 bytes of the display every 8 T-states, allowing the CPU one read every 8 cycles is probably quite generous. Besides which, you seem to be forgetting that if you want to use the Sam's existing RAM in a way which does not cause delays then you will have to work quite hard to prevent the ASIC from introducing WAIT states. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 15:06:53 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502101438.AA03300@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 15:38:03 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <22534.9502101355@rs6-233.cls-4.bcc.ac.uk> from "Mr Keith Turner" at Feb 10, 95 01:55:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1056 Lines: 30 > Don't mention the Pentium. > > No, what you need is a PPC 601 PowerPC chip. That would probably > emulate a fast Z80 and a lot of ASIC functions faster than the real > thing. I'd opt for the ARM chip if we stay in VR for a while.. > > But getting back to reality briefly, I don't think Simon and chums > were thinking of emulation, I think they wanted a chip which would > speak z80 opcodes directly. Otherwise, the Z80B could be set to be a co-prosessor perhaps? I'd really fancy that Z84c000-something. Didn't the addresses I gave you help you Si???? > > / -- > K.Turner@ucl.ac.uk;http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ccaakrt/;...and deeper understanding > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 15:38:40 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 21:02:40 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502101502.AA05498@bot39.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: one small ana... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502101502.AA05498@bot39.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: one small anal examination for man ......... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2599 Lines: 52 HEY! Is this stuff not going a bit OTT?? Unlike some on this mailing list, I'm just a guy who wanted to buy a 128k Spectrum from MGT and found that they were offering a better computer for not much more and decided to take a chance (my only other computer was an MSX so I'm used to taking chances! :) on this thing called the SAM Coupe! Seemed fine to me! I got my Sam home and plugged it in! WOW was it KOOL! Then I tried to load some Spectrum games on it! Some worked! Some didn't! But it still impressed me! I waited and waited for interesting things to happen to the SAM but, alas, to no avail! Then MGT died! That was a sad day! Then SamCo. started! That was brilliant! Then they died and west coast computers started and now I don't know where I am! I tried to explain my love for my SAM to my friends but they just laughed and went off to do some C programming on their new 486DX2s with Quad-speed CD-roms and all that sort of shit! Now you want to turn SAMs into big high-tech computers! Ones which no-one will be able to program properly! Why don't you just build an emulator for a PC/MAC or go and build a PC/MAC in a box that somewhat resembles the SAM! It would be easier and a hell of a lot cheaper! I wish those of you out there who can program on the SAM would write some KOOL stuff! I am not saying that what you are doing is bad, but if I had your knowledge of the SAM then I would not be trying to mess with it! I just wish I could get to grips with the way the Assembly language and the like work! Bloody hell! I'm doing a degree in pure computers and I can't program in Assembly language at all! This is where it is handy to have people like you guys/gals out there to do that sort of stuff instead! Maybe if someone wrote a C compiler or something then I could help out! Till then though....this is Ronan FitzGerald signing off for the day! Adios Peoples! P.S. I hope none of you take this as any sort of attack! I just wish for SAMs to not change! That is one of the things that is KOOL about them! Unlike a PC where when you can afford one, it is out dated! And, unfortunately, I can't afford PCs! I can bearily afford to feed myself! Now that is a bit of a bummer! P.P.S. On a lighter note though....................................... /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 16:01:29 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 15:58:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502101300.aa14080@almaren.ee.surrey.ac.uk> from "ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 01:00:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 835 Lines: 19 > > > > This is what Simon proposed some time ago (that is, adding a souped up CPU > > and a chunk of memory, neither of which the ASIC knows anything about, and > > some kind of linkage which allows the new CPU to write to the Sam's memory > > if it wants (which it has to do in order to display a picture)). > > > > You could be really cock-eyed and have split the memory banks - let the > ASIC deal with the lower 256K and the new processor deal with the top > 256K as fast as it likes. Ok, this means that any video data will have > to be in the lower 256K. Just think of all that refresh-logic, bank > switching circuitry that you'd have to design..... > BEat you to it :) 4 banks, 128k in size. You can choose which bother to update the internal memory, and which just run along at full pelt :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 16:34:13 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 14:04:36 +0100 X400-Originator: cgp@st-andrews.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<29062.9502101304@pasta.st-andre] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Another g... From: Colin G Piggot Message-Id: <29062.9502101304@pasta.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 614 Lines: 17 > Well, Colin PIggot tried it with an 8MHz Z80C and the ASIC /did not/ want > to know. The bus, it seems, has to be at 6MHz... > > Simon Cooke Yeap! With the 8MHz clock and 8MHz CPU (Z84C008), nothing at all happened, Using a clock doubler with the ASIC's clock output and feeding this into the CPU worked *slightly*, ie a clock approx 12MHz, in phase with the ASIC. About half the time, the memory would clear and the startup message would pop up, then you could go into basic, then it would crash! (The startup took about 20% less time than with the original 6MHz clock!) Colin Piggot From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 17:29:17 1995 From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 17:06:20 +0000 (WET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 10, 95 03:58:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502101706.aa22839@valar.ee.surrey.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 922 Lines: 24 > > > > > > > This is what Simon proposed some time ago (that is, adding a souped up CPU > > > and a chunk of memory, neither of which the ASIC knows anything about, and > > > some kind of linkage which allows the new CPU to write to the Sam's memory > > > if it wants (which it has to do in order to display a picture)). > > > > > > > You could be really cock-eyed and have split the memory banks - let the > > ASIC deal with the lower 256K and the new processor deal with the top > > 256K as fast as it likes. Ok, this means that any video data will have > > to be in the lower 256K. Just think of all that refresh-logic, bank > > switching circuitry that you'd have to design..... > > > > BEat you to it :) 4 banks, 128k in size. You can choose which bother to > update the internal memory, and which just run along at full pelt :) > > Simon > How much speed increase was there? -AMG From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 17:37:42 1995 From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 17:11:53 +0000 (WET) In-Reply-To: <9502101447.AA17911@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 03:47:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502101712.aa22997@valar.ee.surrey.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1150 Lines: 24 > > On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 14:01:20 +0000 (GMT), ee31ag@mcs.surrey.ac.uk said: > > If we are going to the trouble of shadow ram and all > > the paging and refreshing nonsense that that involves, > > why not just build a faster video display - just modes > > 3 and 4 for simplicity. Then there's no need to replace > > the RAM, and the colour encoder is already there. > > "faster video display" - what's that? Clearly it has to output the picture > at the same speed if it wants a TV to understand it, and since it needs to > read 4 bytes of the display every 8 T-states, allowing the CPU one read > every 8 cycles is probably quite generous. > > Besides which, you seem to be forgetting that if you want to use the > Sam's existing RAM in a way which does not cause delays then you will > have to work quite hard to prevent the ASIC from introducing WAIT states. > > imc Yes- sorry, that was a bit garbled. What I basically meant was don't use the ASIC at all - ie build your own circuit to deal with the video, and make it permit memory acceses at the speed of the z80 you wish to use. Too much trouble, if you ask me. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 10 19:35:08 1995 Message-Id: <150.199502101348@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:48:48 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 10, 95 12:58:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1004 Lines: 23 Simon Cooke wrote... > And as soon as we can get hold of that damned 20MHz Z80, we'll build one > too... The bloke who used to write "SAM Ammateur Programming and Electronics" (I forget his full name), before it stopped coming through my letterbox, was tinkering with the Z280 which apparently ran at 20MHz or so, and had some snazzy features which made it sound really quite awesome. I'm going home (to Disley, near Macclesfield, near Manchester) and I'll dig out his letter and post it to the group if anyone's interested. Oh, by the way... Has anyone built the EDDAC yet? Is it worth 4-8hours and lead poisoning? (Only kidding...honest) From: Will Easson, 9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk Snail Mail (Home): 24, Buxton Old Road, Disley, Stockport, Cheshire. Snail Mail (Term): Flat 3, 12 Southpark Terrace, Glasgow, G12 8LG. Snail Mail (Work): Glasgow Vet School, Bearsden Road, Bearsden, Glasgow. "A life spent making many mistakes is better than a life spent doing nothing" From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 11 10:24:09 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: one small anal examination for man ......... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 10:22:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502101502.AA05498@bot39.causeway.qub.ac.uk> from "Creature Feature! *PHART*" at Feb 10, 95 09:02:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 733 Lines: 16 > I wish those of you out there who can program on the SAM would write some KOOL > stuff! I am not saying that what you are doing is bad, but if I had your knowledge > of the SAM then I would not be trying to mess with it! I just wish I could get to > grips with the way the Assembly language and the like work! Bloody hell! I'm > doing a degree in pure computers and I can't program in Assembly language at all! > Ah, but this is the thing... If you had our knowledge of the SAM -- inside and out -- you might agree with us that it needs changing. Let's put it this way. We need a text mode for one -- Mode 3 in 85 columns is woefully slow. So what can we do? Nothing... unless we *change the SAM* Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 11 10:25:14 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 10:24:13 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502101706.aa22839@valar.ee.surrey.ac.uk> from "ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 05:06:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 402 Lines: 18 > > > > BEat you to it :) 4 banks, 128k in size. You can choose which bother to > > update the internal memory, and which just run along at full pelt :) > > > > Simon > > > > How much speed increase was there? > -AMG Estimated throughput of about 16/17MHz in contended mode, 20MHz in uncontended mode. But we haven't been able to get the chips to build the bugger :( Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 11 15:29:34 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502111526.AA08839@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 16:26:52 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 11, 95 10:24:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 609 Lines: 22 > > Estimated throughput of about 16/17MHz in contended mode, 20MHz in > uncontended mode. > > But we haven't been able to get the chips to build the bugger :( Didn't you try Zilog direct on the number (address?) I gave you years ago? > > > Simon > > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From imc Sun Feb 12 12:50:59 1995 Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 12 Feb 95 12:50:59 GMT In-Reply-To: <150.199502101348@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk>; from "William Easson" at Feb 10, 95 1:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 783 Lines: 20 On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:48:48 +0000 (GMT), William Easson said: > Oh, by the way... Has anyone built the EDDAC yet? Is it worth > 4-8hours and lead poisoning? (Only kidding...honest) My brother has bought the parts, but he hasn't built it yet. i'm not quite sure whether I expect him to succeed... BTW soldering directly on to the pins of a CMOS IC is definitely not to be recommended... PS I think you will probably want a 74HCT574 rather than a 74HC574 (but I'm sure someone will jump in and correct me if I'm wrong... PPS The printer connector is the most expensive part of the circuit. :-o PPPS If the circuit uses the STROBE line to select between registers, does anyone know how it intends to discover when the correct data byte has been output? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Feb 12 15:30:49 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 15:29:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502121251.AA12106@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 12, 95 01:50:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 334 Lines: 11 > > On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:48:48 +0000 (GMT), William Easson said: > PPPS If the circuit uses the STROBE line to select between registers, > does anyone know how it intends to discover when the correct data byte > has been output? It's edge triggered, so it only clocks in data as the strobe line is changed... Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Feb 12 15:59:48 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 11 Feb 95 19:45:03 +0000 Subject: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2024 Lines: 49 On (10 Feb 95) ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk wrote... e> From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk e> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 17:11:53 +0000 (WET) e> Yes- sorry, that was a bit garbled. What I basically meant was don't e> use the ASIC at all - ie build your own circuit to deal with the video, e> and make it permit memory acceses at the speed of the z80 you wish to e> use. Too much trouble, if you ask me. The problem as I see it is that the z80-CPU is used as a programable logic-cell of the ASIC... As such it's inherantly limited by the ASIC which pauses the z80 when ever it feels like it... Here's another way to zap up a "sam's"... Replace the internal DRAM with fast dual-ported RAM and place the ASIC on one port with suitable logic to fool it into thinking it's accessing the normal 256k x 4bit DRAMS and place whatever z80 compatable CPU on the other port. Make the I/O portion of the ASIC as a true peripheral of the new CPU with additional wait-states added to give the ASIC time to respond with it's /WAIT line... Appart from HMPR and LMPR those should be emulated externally to allow normal SAM mapping of the 512k ram into the CPU 64k address space... Any CPU mmu can play with local-CPU expansion memory. Standard ROM with additional wait-states could be used.. and the sound-chip, uarts, fdc's and RTC can still be accessed via the ASIC but would be better off decoded externally and wait-states added IF required. A new Sam like that *could* use any of the z80,z180 or z280 cpu's and would have zero ASIC intervention on any RAM accesses without mutilayed caches:-) Of course using these methods would mean that the base Sam changes from an elegent collection of just a few chips to just another complex piece of high-speed hardware. Johnathan. ... Parallel lines never meet, unless you bend one or both of them. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Feb 12 16:12:50 1995 From: Mr Andrew M Gale Message-Id: <9502121611.AA22300@central.surrey.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 12 Feb 95 16:11:00 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 11, 95 10:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 452 Lines: 12 > > > BEat you to it :) 4 banks, 128k in size. You can choose which bother to > > > update the internal memory, and which just run along at full pelt :) > > > > > > But we haven't been able to get the chips to build the bugger :( > 4 banks of 128K? Sounds suspiciously like you intend to use SRAM - and at something like 20pounds a piece, that's going to set you back a fair whack..... But where oh where are those darned 20MHz z80s? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Feb 12 16:21:35 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 11 Feb 95 19:07:23 +0000 Subject: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1734 Lines: 42 On (10 Feb 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote... s> From: Simon Cooke s> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:58:47 +0000 (GMT) s> And as soon as we can get hold of that damned 20MHz Z80, we'll build one s> too... Have you tried STC head office at Harlow 01279 626 777 original Type No. Z84C0020PEC Stock No. 034275F from 1991 catalogue the price was listed as P.O.A. they may still stock it, I don't know... s> the only problem I can see is the Dynamic RAM refresh circuitry. Anyone s> know any reference text that's perfect for the job? How about using DRAMS that support /CAS before /RAS internal refresh address counters? Text from a 256k by 1 DRAM data 'sheet':- "Refresh row addresses can be supplied from an internal row address counter. Thereby the need is eliminated for external refresh circuitry to provide and increment the refresh addresses. The internal refresh function is implemented by asserting /CAS prior to driving /RAS active. This will cause the internal refresh counter to provide a row address to the memory row decoder input, thereby refreshing that row. At the end of that cycle, the internal counter will be automatically incremented by one to prepare for refreshing the next row. During /CAS (before /RAS refresh), all external address inputs are ignored." >From the above one would simply use z80 /RFSH line to cause a global /CAS before /RAS access on all such DRAMS and they'd all be refreshed internally, totally ignoring the 7bit /RAS address the z80 provides:-) Johnathan. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Feb 12 16:22:10 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 11 Feb 95 19:33:54 +0000 Subject: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1523 Lines: 42 On (10 Feb 95) cgp@st-andrews.ac.uk wrote... c> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 14:04:36 +0100 c> From: Colin G Piggot > Well, Colin PIggot tried it with an 8MHz Z80C and the ASIC /did not/ want > to know. The bus, it seems, has to be at 6MHz... > > Simon Cooke c> Yeap! c> With the 8MHz clock and 8MHz CPU (Z84C008), nothing at all happened, c> Using a clock doubler with the ASIC's clock output and feeding this into c> the c> CPU worked *slightly*, ie a clock approx 12MHz, in phase with the ASIC. c> About half the time, the memory would clear and the startup message would c> pop up, then you could go into basic, then it would crash! c> (The startup took about 20% less time than with the original 6MHz clock!) c> Colin Piggot I tried using the FDC 8MHz clock on the z80B and 9 times out of 10 it powered up ok'ish the problems arose when I tried to boot from the floppy as at 8Mhz the short delay's required between FDC chip access's are compromised and it's running close to the limit of the ROM access times as well as the other I/O chips... Tha's why I want to stick a z84C50 cpu in as it has a built in programable wait-state generator to slow down bus accesses:-) Johnathan. PS for the test I was using SC_booter 120nS EPROM which is proably a bit better than the standard ROM's.... -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 12:40:46 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:38:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502121611.AA22300@central.surrey.ac.uk> from "Mr Andrew M Gale" at Feb 12, 95 04:11:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 637 Lines: 19 > > > > BEat you to it :) 4 banks, 128k in size. You can choose which bother to > > > > update the internal memory, and which just run along at full pelt :) > > > > > > > > > But we haven't been able to get the chips to build the bugger :( > > > > 4 banks of 128K? Sounds suspiciously like you intend to use > SRAM - and at something like 20pounds a piece, that's going > to set you back a fair whack..... But where oh where are those > darned 20MHz z80s? The idea's to use SIMMs actually, or maybe discrete 256x4 DRAMs... The reason it's 4 banks of 128k is purely for ease of circuitry, believe me :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 12:45:27 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:43:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Johnathan Taylor" at Feb 11, 95 07:07:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1744 Lines: 42 > On (10 Feb 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote... > > s> From: Simon Cooke > s> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:58:47 +0000 (GMT) > > s> And as soon as we can get hold of that damned 20MHz Z80, we'll build one > s> too... > > Have you tried STC head office at Harlow 01279 626 777 > original Type No. Z84C0020PEC Stock No. 034275F from 1991 catalogue the price > was listed as P.O.A. they may still stock it, I don't know... I haven't actually -- but I might give it a whirl. Do they do free catalogues too? :) > s> the only problem I can see is the Dynamic RAM refresh circuitry. Anyone > s> know any reference text that's perfect for the job? > > How about using DRAMS that support /CAS before /RAS internal refresh address > counters? > > Text from a 256k by 1 DRAM data 'sheet':- The thing is that we're thinking of using SIMMs... I'll pore over the data sheet, but it looks like what I'm going to end up using is a tapped delay line -- maybe 3 or 4 buffers all connected in series or something like that -- to provide the multiplexing logic. > >From the above one would simply use z80 /RFSH line to cause a global /CAS > before /RAS access on all such DRAMS and they'd all be refreshed internally, > totally ignoring the 7bit /RAS address the z80 provides:-) k Ah, but the /RFSH line is the problem -- it doesn't appear to refresh often enough... On another note -- remember the paging "bug" you were talking about? It may be something to do with the fact that the ASIC only samples IORQ for its logic -- not M1 as well, so as Prodos uses IM2, the RETI sequence may trigger spurious I/O (as when you do a RETI, IORQ and M1 both drop low). Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 12:47:23 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:44:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199502111526.AA08839@lyr.hiMolde.no> from "Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no" at Feb 11, 95 04:26:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 141 Lines: 7 > Didn't you try Zilog direct on the number (address?) I gave > you years ago? Didn't have chance... I might try it soon!!! Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 12:58:21 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <491.9502131251@marlowe.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Numbers on the Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:51:19 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 322 Lines: 14 Hi all, Nice quicky for you. Just done Floating POint Numbers in my Maths course, and I was wondering what the Sam used, ie mantisa length and maximum exponent. I want to do my homework on my Sam, just to see if the lecturer will have heard off it :) Tim -- Tim Paveley Maths with Computer Science From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 12:58:38 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:45:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502101442.AA17898@booth5.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 10, 95 03:42:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 445 Lines: 12 > On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:55:37 +0000 (GMT), Mr Keith Turner said: > > But getting back to reality briefly, I don't think Simon and chums > > were thinking of emulation, I think they wanted a chip which would > > speak z80 opcodes directly. > > Then perhaps what you need is an SPO256 [obscure joke for with-it people...] Either that or one of Adrian Parker's little boxes, which I understand used that particular chip :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 13:05:10 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502131301.AA19221@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 14:01:55 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 13, 95 12:43:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 751 Lines: 20 > On another note -- remember the paging "bug" you were talking about? It > may be something to do with the fact that the ASIC only samples IORQ for > its logic -- not M1 as well, so as Prodos uses IM2, the RETI sequence may > trigger spurious I/O (as when you do a RETI, IORQ and M1 both drop low). This might be the same reason why my disc-routine crashes after a line interrupt? > > Simon > > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From imc Mon Feb 13 13:09:37 1995 Subject: Re: Numbers on the Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 13:09:37 GMT In-Reply-To: <491.9502131251@marlowe.ecs.soton.ac.uk>; from "Tim Paveley" at Feb 13, 95 12:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 689 Lines: 15 On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:51:19 +0000 (GMT), Tim Paveley said: > Just done Floating POint Numbers in my Maths course, and I was wondering > what the Sam used, ie mantisa length and maximum exponent. Same as the spectrum - 5 bytes (i.e., part way between "single" and "double" precision :-) ). The exponent occupies the first byte and is a power of 2 between -128 and +127 (128 is added before the number is stored). The mantissa occupies the remaining 4 bytes and is normalised so that the decimal point occurs just before the first bit, and so that the first bit is always 1. This being the case, the first bit is not stored and is instead replaced with a sign bit. imc From imc Mon Feb 13 13:19:59 1995 Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 13:19:59 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 13, 95 12:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 632 Lines: 12 On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:43:27 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: > On another note -- remember the paging "bug" you were talking about? It > may be something to do with the fact that the ASIC only samples IORQ for > its logic -- not M1 as well, so as Prodos uses IM2, the RETI sequence may > trigger spurious I/O (as when you do a RETI, IORQ and M1 both drop low). It is my understanding that /M1 and /IORQ are activated at the time when a maskable interrupt is recognised (regardless of the interrupt mode). I see no reason why this should happen at RETI time. My data sheet claims that RETI is the same as RET. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 13:51:00 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502131323.AA19389@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Numbers on the Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 14:23:44 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <491.9502131251@marlowe.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from "Tim Paveley" at Feb 13, 95 12:51:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1124 Lines: 34 > Nice quicky for you. > > Just done Floating POint Numbers in my Maths course, and I was wondering > what the Sam used, ie mantisa length and maximum exponent. Hum...eh...errr..not entirely sure about this, but...(recognize this one :)) Well, the SAM (as the spectrum) uses 7 bits for the exponent and 1 bit for the sign of the exponent. Then it uses 4 bytes for the mentissa. (I think) Anyway, what I was going to say was that I once wrote a fixed point calculator for the basic calculations (+-*/) that used 128 bits for the mentissa, and it was dead slow ;) > I want to do my homework on my Sam, just to see if the lecturer will > have heard off it :) Give him some hook-code calls :-) > > Tim > -- > Tim Paveley > Maths with Computer Science > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 13:53:53 1995 Message-Id: <9502131348.AA27915@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman (Dr Kid) Subject: Driver Docs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 14:48:28 MET Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 404 Lines: 11 Any sign of the dococumentation for Driver yet guys (Ian?) I've just started some coding for an application and I'm itching to get it working with the GUI. On a similar subject, does anyone know why the docs weren't published with the code? Was it down to Bob - `None of the users will have the knowledge to code for Driver' Brenchly Oh well have to stick with X11 for the moment Allan -- From imc Mon Feb 13 13:55:45 1995 Subject: Re: Driver Docs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 13:55:45 GMT In-Reply-To: <9502131348.AA27915@dxmint.cern.ch>; from "Allan Skillman" at Feb 13, 95 2:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 228 Lines: 8 On Mon, 13 Feb 95 14:48:28 MET, Allan Skillman said: > Any sign of the dococumentation for Driver yet guys (Ian?) Not today, not tomorrow, but soon - and for the rest of your... Ahem. Well that's my story, guv. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 15:46:03 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 15:32:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Driver Docs In-Reply-To: <9502131348.AA27915@dxmint.cern.ch> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1017 Lines: 28 On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Allan Skillman wrote: > Any sign of the dococumentation for Driver yet guys (Ian?) I've just started > some coding for an application and I'm itching to get it working with the GUI. > > On a similar subject, does anyone know why the docs weren't published with the > code? Was it down to Bob - `None of the users will have the knowledge to code > for Driver' Brenchly Not really - the plan was to come up with a development pack, which would contain a customised Comet, Driver, all the docs and source code templates. But I never got it finished, and Revelation never pressured me, so it never got completed. > Oh well have to stick with X11 for the moment > > Allan > -- > \\/// (o o) +----------------ooO-(_)-Ooo----------------+ | Steve Taylor sct1000@cam.ac.uk | | Pembroke College | | Cambridge CB2 1RF | +-------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 15:54:07 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 15:35:17 GMT Subject: A giant leap sideways several times recursively... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <495CF45C47@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2807 Lines: 164 Arg! Help! What happened???!! I went away for the weekend, and I just came back to several thousand mail messages.... :) Err.. now, what was said in most of them??? Yeah, the Z8108 needs a 12Mhz clock input, which is divided internally by two for its base clocking rate (6Mhz).. which will also be the rate of the bus. Now, you can set a register on reset by holding the WAIT line and sending a signal down the data bus to it, to set an internal register which controls the clock multiplier, so it can run at 1, 2 or 4 times of the base rate internally.. god knows how I'm going to sort THAT one.. :) Right, the Z8108 uses a super-set of the Z80 instruction set, at a binary level, including all the undocumented Z80 op-codes which are now finally documented.. there are hundreds of extra commands, most of them true 16 bit commands, since the Z8108 is a 16 bit chip. These include 8 and 16 bit multiply and divide commands. A good one is that the refreshes are now programmable, and no longer handled by the R register, which you can use as you like.. Internal registers also control things like wait states, so I'm wondering.. are some of us thinking of the same chip but with a different designation?.. :) It SHOULD run a fair bit faster, because among other things it's got an internal memory cache that can either be used as memory or a Most Recently Used Instructions data file.. all software transparent, of course.. :) However, if this doesn't seem enough, the Z8108 has got a few spare address lines, which allow it to access 512K of memory. It's got internal page registers, and you can map any 4K section to any area of memory. What I was thinking of doing was using the base 64K as the SAMs paged memory, controlled by the ASIC, and bunging on some extra memory, which would be mapped above this. Admittedely, this won't run any faster, but it's nice to know that you've got some extra memory.. :) Of course, I could use a Z8116 which addresses 16Meg, and has got 4 programmable DMA's.... Yup. Those that DO know the SAM inside out end up thinking.. "Oh. Is that it?". Of course, given the money, a completely redesigned computer wouldn't be the SAM, but you could keep it SAM compatible without merely running an emulation.. look at the SAM itself.. it doesn't so much emulate a spectrum as become one..... DMZ -- Yet another witty yet deeply meaningful phrase at the end of === the name that should make you all sick. Come on... it was only a FEW lines... :) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 16:33:22 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:24:57 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502131624.AA06249@bot15.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Just yapping ... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502131624.AA06249@bot15.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Just yapping again! Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1422 Lines: 33 YEAH! Mail was a bit hectic over the weekend!! I propose I new initiative that people try not to send so much mail at the weekend I know that it may slow a conversation down a bit but, if it is interesting to me then I would like to know about it! Not read about it! Not wanting to sound selfish but it would be nice! Also, When you get nearly 400 K of mail when you login and you only have about 500 K left of your quota (which I luckily had!!) it does tend to get a bit awkward to incoporate! It took bloody ages to sift through it all and weed out all the shite (of which there was lots!) Having said that... It wasn't quite as bad as over christmas! Now that was fun! Anyway... I'm not going to ramble on, cause I have a splitting headache due to a very nasty cold which seems to be going round at the minute! Not very nice indeed! Anyone fancy writing a massaging peripheral for the sam??? Would sort my head out THANKS! P.S. Never go on an all-weekend drink and drugs session when a cold is about! Your immune system gets temporarily paralysed and you haven't a hope of NOT catching it! Or something else! /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 17:00:42 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: Just yapping again! Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 16:42:00 PST Message-Id: <2F3FFB18@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 31 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1096 Lines: 31 > I propose I new initiative that people try not to send so much mail at the > weekend If you're working at a weekend it's good to get some mail through every now and again, it also gives me a good excuse to skive on monday mornings when I read it :) > When you get nearly 400 K of mail when you > login and you only have about 500 K left of your quota (which I luckily had!!) > it does tend to get a bit awkward to incoporate! It took bloody ages to sift > through it all and weed out all the shite (of which there was lots!) Heh heh, I have unlimited quota... :)) But a shit link :(( > P.S. Never go on an all-weekend drink and drugs session when a cold is about! > Your immune system gets temporarily paralysed and you haven't a hope of > NOT catching it! Or something else! Never snog strange women who smoke Corona Corona's either. Don't do drugs kids, if you want to fuck up your life, go ahead I've been there, done that and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference, if your life is shit, drugs will just make it worse. Dan Doore. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 17:21:21 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 23:00:59 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502131701.AA06372@bot15.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: RE: Just yapp... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502131701.AA06372@bot15.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: Just yapping again! Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 394 Lines: 16 YEAH! Kids, don't do drugs! Give them all to me! I'm the only who really appreciates them anyway! 8) Keep on tokin' kids! /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 18:03:56 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: Just yapping again! Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 17:29:00 PST Message-Id: <2F400618@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 13 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 206 Lines: 13 > YEAH! Kids, don't do drugs! Give them all to me! > > I'm the only who really appreciates them anyway! 8) > > > Keep on tokin' kids! I don't believe I just read this. Get a life. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 18:53:15 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 00:42:05 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502131842.AA07226@bot15.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: sad as fuck b... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502131842.AA07226@bot15.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: sad as fuck but..... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 466 Lines: 23 YEAH! SAD SAD SAD! Now send your drugs to me!!! 'shrooms/gear/speed/anything! :) Drugs may be bad for you but hey! They aren't bad for me! :) HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!! /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 19:39:23 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: sad as f*ck (this is a family show...) but..... Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 19:06:00 PST Message-Id: <2F401CCE@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 17 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 507 Lines: 17 Oh dear, I do hate to take this moral high ground as It doesn't suit my nature but when some asshole who has probably never had more than a passed joint starts mouthing off about how great drugs are it really gets my back up. When you have seen your friends haemorrhage in front of you and get rushed to casualty after a night of chugging black it tends to bring everything into perspective. Think about that next time you 'Skin Up' eh? Besides, the empty can rattles the most. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 13 21:46:15 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:47:50 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<8869.9502132147@sun.aston.ac.uk] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: And on a simi... From: goringgn Message-Id: <8869.9502132147@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: And on a similar vein to those above... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 179 Lines: 8 In keeping with the recent trend of this group I'd like to say that if you are taking drugs or being abused then you can called child-line on: 0800 11 11 Okay? Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 06:49:16 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 06:24:43 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6701@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 292 Lines: 10 This may seem very silly, bit there you go... All this talk of new hardware, what about some kind of clever program that could just convert the SAM software to run on, shock horror, a PC? Is it any more off the wall that a completely new SAM? :-) Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 07:21:38 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 14 Feb 95 00:41:26 +0000 Subject: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways Message-Id: <3e0_9502140659@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3478 Lines: 76 On (13 Feb 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote... s> From: Simon Cooke s> Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:43:27 +0000 (GMT) s> 11, 95 07:07:23 pm > Have you tried STC head office at Harlow 01279 626 777 > original Type No. Z84C0020PEC Stock No. 034275F from 1991 catalogue the > price was listed as P.O.A. they may still stock it, I don't know... s> I haven't actually -- but I might give it a whirl. Do they do free s> catalogues too? :) Last time I asked, No:-( otherwise I'd be quoting from a '95 catalogue;-) > How about using DRAMS that support /CAS before /RAS internal refresh s> The thing is that we're thinking of using SIMMs... I'll pore over the s> data sheet, but it looks like what I'm going to end up using is a tapped s> delay line -- maybe 3 or 4 buffers all connected in series or something s> like that -- to provide the multiplexing logic. eh, what's all that stuff for? /RAS remaines active during subsiquent /CAS so a pair of inverters cascaded will provide more than enough delay. Check out the Zx Spectrum's RAS&CAS handling although the schematic uses C63 & C64 to produce a delay in /CAS signal ALL Zx iss 2&3 pcb's I've had NEVER had them even fitted at all and relied solely on the OR gate used propogation delay! s> Ah, but the /RFSH line is the problem -- it doesn't appear to refresh s> often enough... get your calculator out, an active /RFSH pulse occours once during each instruction-decode phase... all DRAMS I've seen allow a standard refreshing cycle length so when twice as many addresses need to be refreshed they usually allow twice as long.. a 256K x N DRAM may require 512 refresh address cycles within 8mS which is easily done on any z80! 512 instructions in 8mS is only 64000 instructions a second even with the ASIC slowing things as much as it can that speed should be achievable with ease. /MREQ + /RFSH feeding a binary counter with 9, 10 or however many bits required Positive edge triggered so the refresh address is incremented AFTER we've output the refresh address. The counter output is simply passed to the DRAM address lines using the active-low product above which also lowers /RAS line too:-) Of course you could be experiencing that little problem of the SAM expansion BUS ie inadequate 0Volt line to carry the higher current that TTL logic forces on the 0v line when compared the the +5Volt line so you somtimes miss the /RFSH pulse just like the false 1's experienced with the UART's s> On another note -- remember the paging "bug" you were talking about? It s> may be something to do with the fact that the ASIC only samples IORQ for s> its logic -- not M1 as well, so as Prodos uses IM2, the RETI sequence may s> trigger spurious I/O (as when you do a RETI, IORQ and M1 both drop low). RETI differs from RET only by OP-code and duration for the benifit of true Zilog peripheral chips interupt priorities. /IORQ & M1 ocour during any maskable interupt acknowledge to request the interupting device to place an IM2 vector or IM0 instruction onto the z80 data-bus, looong before the end of service routine where the RETI may be placed, nice try tho;) Cheers Johnathan. ... Misspelled? Impossible. My modem is error correcting. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 07:21:39 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 14 Feb 95 00:29:25 +0000 Subject: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways Message-Id: <3df_9502140659@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1315 Lines: 32 On (13 Feb 95) Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote... > Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 14:19:59 +0100 > From: Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk > On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:43:27 +0000 (GMT), Simon Cooke said: SC> On another note -- remember the paging "bug" you were talking about? It SC> may be something to do with the fact that the ASIC only samples IORQ for SC> its logic -- not M1 as well, so as Prodos uses IM2, the RETI sequence may SC> trigger spurious I/O (as when you do a RETI, IORQ and M1 both drop low). IC> It is my understanding that /M1 and /IORQ are activated at the time IC> when a maskable interrupt is recognised (regardless of the interrupt IC> mode). I see no reason why this should happen at RETI time. My data IC> sheet claims that RETI is the same as RET. IC> imc Yep that's the reduced Interupt acknowledge cycle which shouldn't confuse the ASIC as IT causes the interupt... RETI difference is actually that it's recognised by true Zilog peripherals to relinquish the current priority level. And until daisy-chained Zilog peripherals are used regularly on the SAM, we have no actual need of it! Johnathan. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 09:21:56 1995 Message-Id: <4190.199502140852@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Just yapping again! To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 08:52:17 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <2F400618@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 13, 95 05:29:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 285 Lines: 20 > > > > YEAH! Kids, don't do drugs! Give them all to me! > > > > I'm the only who really appreciates them anyway! 8) > > > > > > Keep on tokin' kids! > > I don't believe I just read this. > > Get a life. > > Dan. > Indeed. Will. 9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk From imc Tue Feb 14 10:46:40 1995 Subject: Re: And on a similar vein to those above... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 10:46:40 GMT In-Reply-To: <8869.9502132147@sun.aston.ac.uk>; from "goringgn" at Feb 13, 95 10:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 394 Lines: 12 On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:47:50 +0100, goringgn said: > In keeping with the recent trend of this group I'd like to say that if you > are taking drugs or being abused then you can called child-line on: > 0800 11 11 I don't think that's right as there are not enough digits. Anyway, can we get this discussion off sam-users and start talking about Sams and Z80s again? Thanks. imc From imc Tue Feb 14 10:48:26 1995 Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 10:48:26 GMT In-Reply-To: <3df_9502140659@centron.com>; from "Johnathan Taylor" at Feb 14, 95 12:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 330 Lines: 8 On 14 Feb 95 00:29:25 +0000, Johnathan Taylor said: > RETI difference is actually that it's > recognised by true Zilog peripherals to relinquish the current priority level. So could you explain precisely what is meant to happen? Is there a difference between RET and RETI or not? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 10:53:22 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 10:40:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <3e0_9502140659@centron.com> from "Johnathan Taylor" at Feb 14, 95 00:41:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2183 Lines: 46 > On (13 Feb 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote... > > eh, what's all that stuff for? /RAS remaines active during subsiquent /CAS > so a pair of inverters cascaded will provide more than enough delay. > Check out the Zx Spectrum's RAS&CAS handling although the schematic uses C63 & > C64 to produce a delay in /CAS signal ALL Zx iss 2&3 pcb's I've had NEVER had > them even fitted at all and relied solely on the OR gate used propogation > delay! *grins* Okay... I'll look at it in more detail.. > s> Ah, but the /RFSH line is the problem -- it doesn't appear to refresh > s> often enough... > > get your calculator out, an active /RFSH pulse occours once during each > instruction-decode phase... all DRAMS I've seen allow a standard refreshing > cycle length so when twice as many addresses need to be refreshed they usually > allow twice as long.. > > a 256K x N DRAM may require 512 refresh address cycles within 8mS which is > easily done on any z80! 512 instructions in 8mS is only 64000 instructions > a second even with the ASIC slowing things as much as it can that speed should > be achievable with ease. The problem that I was thinking of is the frequency of WAIT states buggering it up -- and what if an external device uses BUSREQ too? > > s> On another note -- remember the paging "bug" you were talking about? It > s> may be something to do with the fact that the ASIC only samples IORQ for > s> its logic -- not M1 as well, so as Prodos uses IM2, the RETI sequence may > s> trigger spurious I/O (as when you do a RETI, IORQ and M1 both drop low). > > RETI differs from RET only by OP-code and duration for the benifit of true > Zilog peripheral chips interupt priorities. > /IORQ & M1 ocour during any maskable interupt acknowledge to request the > interupting device to place an IM2 vector or IM0 instruction onto the z80 > data-bus, looong before the end of service routine where the RETI may be > placed, nice try tho;) Yeah, but could it be the IORQ & M1 both going low at the start of the interrupt that causes the problems? Could the ASIC be receiving spurious IO read/writes? Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 11:14:03 1995 From: Nigel J Kettlewell Message-Id: <29656.199502141057@brillig> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 10:57:48 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9502141048.AA02825@booth10.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 14, 95 11:48:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 703 Lines: 22 > So could you explain precisely what is meant to happen? Is there a difference > between RET and RETI or not? > > imc > I seem to remember that RETI re-enables the interrupts - when an interrupt occurs, they are disabled (I think) which is done by setting (resetting?) the interrupt flip-flops, and RETI restores them to whatever they were before. RET does not touch the interrupt flip-flops, it's just like POP HL JP (HL) Nige -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "You've got to look at it from a fork's point of view" (Dr Steve Matthews) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From imc Tue Feb 14 11:18:53 1995 Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 11:18:53 GMT In-Reply-To: <29656.199502141057@brillig>; from "Nigel J Kettlewell" at Feb 14, 95 10:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 657 Lines: 15 On Tue, 14 Feb 1995 10:57:48 +0000 (GMT), Nigel J Kettlewell said: > I seem to remember that RETI re-enables the interrupts - when an interrupt > occurs, they are disabled (I think) which is done by setting (resetting?) > the interrupt flip-flops, and RETI restores them to whatever they were > before. RETN does this. When an NMI occurs, iff1 is cleared (disbling interrupts) and when RETN is executed, iff2 is copied into iff1 (restoring them to the previous status). When a maskable interrupt occurs, both iff1 and iff2 are cleared. I seem to remember doing an experiment which showed that RETI did not re-enable the interrupts. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 11:20:51 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 11:02:39 GMT Subject: Re: sad as fuck but..... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <12BB03DC5@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 456 Lines: 22 > YEAH! > > > SAD SAD SAD! > > Now send your drugs to me!!! > > 'shrooms/gear/speed/anything! :) > > Drugs may be bad for you but hey! They aren't bad for me! :) > > HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!! For the latest catalogue of mind warping drugs, some with permanent side effects, (as seen above in our demonstration), please send stlg9.95 to the following address :- spx3dmz@astro.cf.ac.uk Thankyou. :) DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 11:30:30 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <27689.9502141108@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Childline To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 11:08:09 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9502141046.AA02811@booth10.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 14, 95 11:46:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1310 Lines: 30 To Quote Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk : > On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:47:50 +0100, goringgn said: > > In keeping with the recent trend of this group I'd like to say that if you > > are taking drugs or being abused then you can called child-line on: > > 0800 11 11 > I don't think that's right as there are not enough digits. It is right for childline, I think it was so that it was easier for kids to remember. Mind you, I think it's really meant for kids, and since I imagine most people who read this to be at least 18, then I doubt they are good people to phone. Try looking in your yellow pages, or thompson for other drugs support agencies. > Anyway, can we get this discussion off sam-users and start talking about > Sams and Z80s again? Thanks. Read that too late sorry ;-) Okay, can I just say that I agree with the 'Leave the Sam as it is.' Group of people, partly because I doubt I'll ever buy anything that upgrades the Sam past it's present standard, and I'd get upset if people started publishing stuff that I couldn't use because of the fact. The Sam has a small enought user base as it is, I don't want it to be split up or grow any smaller. Tim -- Tim Paveley - University of Southampton Sam Coupe Web Pages: http://whig.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93/Coupe/home.html From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 11:36:55 1995 From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 11:01:51 +0000 (WET) In-Reply-To: <6701@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Feb 14, 95 06:24:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502141102.aa16992@valar.ee.surrey.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 226 Lines: 6 > All this talk of new hardware, what about some kind of clever > program that could just convert the SAM software to run on, > shock horror, a PC? A SAM Emulator for the PC? Wouldn't Bob Brenchley just *love* that! From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 12:15:06 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Childline To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:13:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <27689.9502141108@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from "Tim Paveley" at Feb 14, 95 11:08:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 903 Lines: 23 > To Quote Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk : > Okay, can I just say that I agree with the 'Leave the Sam as it is.' Group of > people, partly because I doubt I'll ever buy anything that upgrades the Sam > past it's present standard, and I'd get upset if people started publishing > stuff that I couldn't use because of the fact. > > The Sam has a small enought user base as it is, I don't want it to be split up > or grow any smaller. > > Tim Okay.... but what if I told you that a lot of the hardware we've got doesn't actually WORK the way we need it to? And how about a hard-drive, or high density disk drives??? Simon ps I'm talking about (a) the SAMBus Clock, which seems to corrupt itself now and then, (b) the 8MHz clock on the drive lines, (c) the pinout on the Comms Interface (which could do with some extra lines for idiotic terminal devices and printers)... From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 12:18:15 1995 From: gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 11:33:43 +0000 In-Reply-To: Ian.Collier -- "Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways" (Feb 14, 11:48am) >From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1333 Lines: 35 On Feb 14, 11:48am in "Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways", you warbled: ] On 14 Feb 95 00:29:25 +0000, Johnathan Taylor said: ] > RETI difference is actually that it's ] > recognised by true Zilog peripherals to relinquish the current priority level. ] ] So could you explain precisely what is meant to happen? Is there a difference ] between RET and RETI or not? ] ] imc >From the man with the Databook in his bag (it's ok, I'm not _really_ that sad, I'm doing a z80-simulation for my 3rd-year-project!), "the PIO decodes the RETI (return from Interrupt) instruction directly from the CPU data bus so that each PIO in the system knows at all times whether it is being serviced by the CPU interrupt service routine. No other communication with the CPU is required" This basically means that if you want to interface to `standard' z80 peripherals that use this method in your interrupt routine, you have to use reti (trust me, I know, I had to last year!) but otherwise the difference is diddly squat. Except that reti takes an extra byte and 4 extra t-states... S Z H PV N C HEX Bytes Cycs Tstates RET PCl<-(SP) . . X . X . . . C9 1 3 10 PCh<-(SP+1) RETI Return from . . X . X . . . ED 2 4 14 Interrupt 4D Happy now? Geoff From imc Tue Feb 14 12:21:29 1995 Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 12:21:29 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Mars Bar" at Feb 14, 95 11:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 301 Lines: 12 On Tue, 14 Feb 1995 11:33:43 +0000, Mars Bar said: > "the PIO decodes the RETI (return from Interrupt) instruction directly > from the CPU data bus Hmm... isn't that rather a lot of work for a peripheral device to do (given that RETI has a double opcode)? > Happy now? Ecstatic. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 12:22:07 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:10:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <29656.199502141057@brillig> from "Nigel J Kettlewell" at Feb 14, 95 10:57:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1212 Lines: 29 > I seem to remember that RETI re-enables the interrupts - when an interrupt > occurs, they are disabled (I think) which is done by setting (resetting?) > the interrupt flip-flops, and RETI restores them to whatever they were > before. > > RET does not touch the interrupt flip-flops, it's just like > POP HL > JP (HL) > > Nige I know that RETI is described as resetting the interrupts, but it doesn't appear to do so -- I've been stuck in many an interrupt loop because I assumed that. RETN, however, does restore interrupt status. If you think about it, you don't need to restore interrupt status for a RETI anyway -- because if one occurs, you've called it from an interrupt anyway, so interrupts were Enabled on entry. Of course, some people might like to call their own interrupt code with interrupts disabled, but they're just weird. Looking through the Zilog Applications Peripherals manual (1991), RETI is the same as RET, but things that use the zilog daisy chain interrupt structure scan the data bus for the RETI opcode sequence, and use it to release the interrupts so that the next device down in the priority chain can interrupt the system... Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 12:32:53 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:18:15 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<320.9502141218@sun.aston.ac.uk>] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Childline From: goringgn Message-Id: <320.9502141218@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Childline Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1879 Lines: 37 > To Quote Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk : > > On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:47:50 +0100, goringgn said: > > > In keeping with the recent trend of this group I'd like to say that if you > > > are taking drugs or being abused then you can called child-line on: > > > 0800 11 11 > > I don't think that's right as there are not enough digits. > It is right for childline, I think it was so that it was easier for kids to > remember. Mind you, I think it's really meant for kids, and since I imagine > most people who read this to be at least 18, then I doubt they are good > people to phone. Try looking in your yellow pages, or thompson for other > drugs support agencies. > > > Anyway, can we get this discussion off sam-users and start talking about > > Sams and Z80s again? Thanks. > Read that too late sorry ;-) > > Okay, can I just say that I agree with the 'Leave the Sam as it is.' Group of > people, partly because I doubt I'll ever buy anything that upgrades the Sam > past it's present standard, and I'd get upset if people started publishing > stuff that I couldn't use because of the fact. > > The Sam has a small enought user base as it is, I don't want it to be split up > or grow any smaller. Damn straight! I agree totally, expansion at this point in the SAM's life can only be harmful. Especially for anybody who pumps money into an upgrade kit and expects everybody to jump with joy. Fact is, 20 people at most will buy the damn thing. Graham +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Why not visit my unfinished Home Page? Refreshments served every hour.| +---------------+ http://www.aston.ac.uk/~goringgn/ +------------------+ | Set in the beautiful country-side | | Of Aston University | +-----------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 13:03:26 1995 From: gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Message-Id: >From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:46:55 +0000 In-Reply-To: N.J.Kettlewell -- "Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways" (Feb 14, 10:57am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 521 Lines: 18 On Feb 14, 10:57am in "Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways", you warbled: ] > So could you explain precisely what is meant to happen? Is there a difference ] > between RET and RETI or not? ] > ] > imc ] > ] ] I seem to remember that RETI re-enables the interrupts - when an interrupt ] occurs, they are disabled (I think) which is done by setting (resetting?) ] the interrupt flip-flops, and RETI restores them to whatever they were ] before. Dun't think so. Sorry. See previous. Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 13:14:46 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 19:02:49 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502141302.AA03586@bot9.causewa] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: SAD From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502141302.AA03586@bot9.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: SAD Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1209 Lines: 32 Just one small point!!!! I'm not a bleedin' addict!!!!!! I take drugs for fun! Not because I have to! Do you all not drink (except those of you who don't! :)!!! I bet some of you even smoke! And if you can seriously tell me that doctors are liers when they say that tobacco is alot worse for you than cannabis then I'll send one round to take your temporature mateys! I know one person who has to smoke cannabis! But that is only because her doctor told her to! She gets very bad menstrual pains and, strangely enough, cannabis has a peculiar property that it can soothe such nasty little pains! But note: her doctor told her to take it! He can't actually give it to her (no pun intended!) but he does tell her to get hold of it! Anyway.......I don't want to talk about my private life to people who know fuckall squared about the subject! Adios peoples! P.S. Don't change SAM! I can't afford to keep up!!!! :( /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 13:27:40 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <29237.9502141300@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Expansion? (was Re:Childline) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users mailing list) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:00:16 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1531 Lines: 32 Okay, I am happy to agree that a Hard disk would be nice, and I would possibly consider buying that, if I could afford it. What I probably would not buy, are things like the Quazar Surround Sound. I do not mean any offense to the people who are designing such things, I am sure that they are very good, but anything like that, would need to be catered for seperatly. I guess I'm not explaining this well, I'll try an example. If you buy the harddrive, anybody can use it, programs should be able to use it straight away with little or no adaption, and you don't lose out if you decide that you would rather not buy one. Compare this with say the kalideoscope. 32,768 colours sounded a nice idea, but it wasn't really needed, people would still have to take into account the people who hadn't bought it, unless you wanted to seperate the Sam Owners into Kalideoscope owners and not. In which case, you didn't actually need to buy it. So the kalideoscope would only have been bought and used by people who really wanted 32,768 colours, while most people were perfectly happy with 128. I think you can class hardware into 2 vague areas, those that people may or may not find useful, such as hard drives, comms, printer interfaces. And those that were actually changing the Spec of the Sam, such as a new ASIC, and the Kalideoscope. I like the first, but not the second. Tim -- Tim Paveley - University of Southampton Sam Coupe Web Pages: http://whig.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93/Coupe/home.html From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 13:50:29 1995 From: mcscs3cgm@vaxd.dct.ac.uk Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:44:25 GMT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-Id: <0098BF99.8BAA95BE.9@vaxd.dct.ac.uk> Subject: RE: SAD Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 218 Lines: 7 Come on - there's enough crap on this list as it is. If you want to talk about drugs, join a drugs group - then when you grow out of them like everyone else, maybe you'll come back to SAM... Colin Macdonald From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 13:54:29 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:14:05 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<591.9502141314@sun.aston.ac.uk>] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) From: goringgn Message-Id: <591.9502141314@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 245 Lines: 6 Um, since this is an unmoderated group, and nobody from the 'law' will be looking, I'm interested in compiling a list of all the illegal speccy conversions to the SAM. Best to post me directly as some people might get pissed off. Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 14:48:24 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 19:54:40 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502141354.AA04100@bot9.causewa] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502141354.AA04100@bot9.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 491 Lines: 17 Speccy conversions? Now that sounds KOOL! eh.... wanna send it straight to the list instead? Or would people not aggree with this? If not then could you (Graham) please forward it onto me when you get it sorted? THANX! /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 15:07:34 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:31:00 +0100 X400-Originator: cgp@st-andrews.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<6676.9502141331@pasta.st-andrew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Expansion... From: Colin G Piggot Message-Id: <6676.9502141331@pasta.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Expansion? (was Re:Childline) Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1916 Lines: 40 > Okay, I am happy to agree that a Hard disk would be nice, and I would > possibly consider buying that, if I could afford it. What I probably would > not buy, are things like the Quazar Surround Sound. Oh dear, thats not a nice thing to say.... Taking all that has been said into consideration,I feel that people are let down / annoyed when there is NO SOFTWARE SUPPORT for new bits of hardware, taking the kalideoscope, many people purchased that, but what software was there? The only thing i've seen was a routine on SAM PRIME issue 3, apart from that i dont even know if there was anything else. And how many people actually know how they can use it themselves...? Would you not agree that this would make people more skeptical about hardware in the future. If there was software support, the hardware would 'have a use' and become more popular. Taking the Quazar Surround as the next example (as it's my own creation!) the support will be there, with top companies like FRED PUBLISHING and PHOENIX SOFTWARE and top programmers are also VERY intrested in using it, plus myself - programming away till the early hours of the morning for past two weeks writing software for it, i can assure everyone the support will be there, and I am planning to get lots of software ready for it's launch (approx early March) As for compatibiliy, most games will not be written specifically for the Quazar Surround, so people without it can still play them (although without the cool sound obviously) - this means people won't miss out. And as for 'anyone' using it, all the software for playing samples in M/C AND BASIC is ready to be supplied with it, so even someone with limited knowledge of basic can still enjoy writing small programs for it. As said before, how many people knew how to use the kalideoscope properly? Colin Piggot - Creater of the Quazar Surround. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 15:10:33 1995 From: gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Message-Id: >From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:54:35 +0000 In-Reply-To: cgp -- "Re: Expansion? (was Re:Childline)" (Feb 14, 2:31pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Expansion? (was Re:Childline) Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1139 Lines: 30 On Feb 14, 2:31pm in "Re: Expansion? (was Re:Childline)", you warbled: ] Taking all that has been said into consideration,I feel that people ] are let down / annoyed when there is NO SOFTWARE SUPPORT for new bits ] of hardware, taking the kalideoscope, many people purchased that, but ] what software was there? The only thing i've seen was a routine on ] SAM PRIME issue 3, apart from that i dont even know if there was anything ] else. Aha.... but the problem was that the K was shite... ] And how many people actually know how they can use it themselves...? Me. ] Would you not agree that this would make people more skeptical about ] hardware in the future. If there was software support, the hardware ] would 'have a use' and become more popular. Find a `use' for K and I'll use it. had the K been designed with _use_ in mind, ie with a set of palette registers that could have changed the output depending on the current output colour, it would have been _useful_. As it was, it wasn't. Shame, since it cost so much, and took so much time. At least I know how to solder nicely now :) Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 15:27:14 1995 From: Nigel J Kettlewell Message-Id: <1146.199502141450@brillig> Subject: Re: Expansion? (was Re:Childline) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:50:46 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <6676.9502141331@pasta.st-andrews.ac.uk> from "Colin G Piggot" at Feb 14, 95 14:31:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2027 Lines: 44 > > > Okay, I am happy to agree that a Hard disk would be nice, and I would > > possibly consider buying that, if I could afford it. What I probably would > > not buy, are things like the Quazar Surround Sound. > > Oh dear, thats not a nice thing to say.... > > Taking all that has been said into consideration,I feel that people > are let down / annoyed when there is NO SOFTWARE SUPPORT for new bits > of hardware, taking the kalideoscope, many people purchased that, but > what software was there? The only thing i've seen was a routine on > SAM PRIME issue 3, apart from that i dont even know if there was anything > else. Hey! I just remembered! That was my routine! (If we're thinking of the same one) The whole point of writing that was to try to get other people using Kaleidoscope, as I was trying to show how it could be done from m/c and also from BASIC, using the little driver routine that was the main part of the demo. Trouble was, SAM PRIME didn't (doesn't?) go out to very many people... > As said before, how many people knew how to use the kalideoscope properly? The little manual thingy (bit of paper, really) that came with it, plus the example programs did explain which ports did what, though to the novice it wouldn't have meant very much. It was simplicity itself to alter a few colours permanently to get "just the right shade" of whatever colour you wanted. As for changing colours part way down the screen, it was pretty much the same as you ordinary line interrupt colour changes. And the good thing was that if you didn't have the board plugged in, there was no effect at all, so it didn't introduce any incompatibility. Shame nobody ever wrote anything decent for it, but it was fun to build. Nige -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "You've got to look at it from a fork's point of view." (Steve Matthews) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 15:27:15 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: SAD Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 13:16:00 PST Message-Id: <2F413281@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 9 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 164 Lines: 9 > Anyway.......I don't want to talk about my private life to people who know > fuckall squared about the subject! Then Don't. Case Closed. Dan Doore. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 15:33:16 1995 From: Mr Andrew M Gale Message-Id: <9502141432.AA00674@central.surrey.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SAD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 14:32:36 GMT In-Reply-To: <9502141302.AA03586@bot9.causeway.qub.ac.uk>; from "Creature Feature! *PHART*" at Feb 14, 95 7:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 137 Lines: 4 How many times do we hear druggies telling us that it's all fine? Do as you like - just don't force the subject down our throats. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 15:45:41 1995 From: Nigel J Kettlewell Message-Id: <1411.199502141527@brillig> Subject: Re: Expansion? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 15:27:11 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Mars Bar" at Feb 14, 95 14:54:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1486 Lines: 44 > > On Feb 14, 2:31pm in "Re: Expansion? (was Re:Childline)", you warbled: > ] Taking all that has been said into consideration,I feel that people > ] are let down / annoyed when there is NO SOFTWARE SUPPORT for new bits > ] of hardware, taking the kalideoscope, many people purchased that, but > ] what software was there? The only thing i've seen was a routine on > ] SAM PRIME issue 3, apart from that i dont even know if there was anything > ] else. > > Aha.... but the problem was that the K was shite... Kind of. It did what it was supposed to do well enough. Doing anything more complicated would have made it even more expensive than it already was... > > ] And how many people actually know how they can use it themselves...? > > Me. And me. And anybody who could write Z80 and understood what I/O ports were all about, I expect. > Shame, since it cost so much, and took so much time. > > At least I know how to solder nicely now :) Yeah, it was fun to build, and it was designed (in part) as a bit of a h/w course, so I've got no complaints. Had the h/w course continues, then perhaps there might have been something useful tagged onto the back of it. > > Geoff > > Nige -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "You've got to look at it from a fork's point of view." (Steve Matthews) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 16:38:51 1995 Message-Id: <7908.199502141215@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: And on a similar vein to those above... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:15:23 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9502141046.AA02811@booth10.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 14, 95 11:46:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 865 Lines: 24 > > On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:47:50 +0100, goringgn said: > > In keeping with the recent trend of this group I'd like to say that if you > > are taking drugs or being abused then you can called child-line on: > > > 0800 11 11 > > I don't think that's right as there are not enough digits. > > Anyway, can we get this discussion off sam-users and start talking about > Sams and Z80s again? Thanks. > > imc > On the contrary, it IS the correct number, although you should only ring it if you're specifically in need of their specialist help. I would reccommend the Samaritans (number in your 'phone book). I would suggest that you take this "discussion" out of this group, though (perhaps personal eMail?), or else people'll start getting tired of it. It was funny to start with, but it's getting tired... Will. 9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 16:49:26 1995 Message-Id: <11271.199502141223@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Childline and Leave-Sam? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:23:17 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <27689.9502141108@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from "Tim Paveley" at Feb 14, 95 11:08:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1147 Lines: 24 > Okay, can I just say that I agree with the 'Leave the Sam as it is.' Group of > people, partly because I doubt I'll ever buy anything that upgrades the Sam > past it's present standard, and I'd get upset if people started publishing > stuff that I couldn't use because of the fact. > > The Sam has a small enought user base as it is, I don't want it to be split up > or grow any smaller. > I must say I agree, but one of the SAM's great appeals is that it is so modifyable, and people want to tinker with it. I don't think what has been going on in these pages has anything to do with the production of a "SAM Coupe Turbo XR3i", but rather what people are doing with their computers. Some people play games with their computers. Others program wallpaper databases ;-) Still others rip the SAM's heart out, and wonder what they can replace it with. It's just another use for our computer. The experiments going on with enhancing the SAM can only be a good thing in developing the expertise we have in the user base, provided the other users don't feel left out. Sorry to get on my high horse! Will Easson From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 17:00:52 1995 Message-Id: <12383.199502141225@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:25:18 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9502141102.aa16992@valar.ee.surrey.ac.uk> from "ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk" at Feb 14, 95 11:01:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 184 Lines: 9 > > A SAM Emulator for the PC? Wouldn't Bob Brenchley just *love* that! > Yes. A nice little space-filler for his editorial. Should fill a fair few pages. Will Easson From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 17:50:51 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 23:16:46 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502141716.AA05273@bot31.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: LAST SAD COMM... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502141716.AA05273@bot31.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: LAST SAD COMMENT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 664 Lines: 22 emmmmm........ At what point did I suggest that you all take drugs? I just didn't like being slagged off for something I did in my own personal time! I didn't even want to get into this but I guess it's just that argumentative streek of mine! :( Sorry if I offended any of you all! I'll not bring the subject up again! Until next time of course....................... Adios peoples! /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 18:13:26 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:36:33 +0100 X400-Originator: cgp@st-andrews.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<6824.9502141336@pasta.st-andrew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: SAD From: Colin G Piggot Message-Id: <6824.9502141336@pasta.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAD Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1003 Lines: 24 > /> > ( //---------------------------------------------------\ > (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> > ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ > \> > Just one small point!!!! I'm not a bleedin' addict!!!!!! > I take drugs for fun! Not because I have to! > Do you all not drink (except those of you who don't! :)!!! > I bet some of you even smoke! And if you can seriously tell me that doctors are > liers when they say that tobacco is alot worse for you than cannabis then I'll > send one round to take your temporature mateys! > etc.... etc.... etc... > Anyway.......I don't want to talk about my private life to people who know > fuckall squared about the subject! GOOD. TAKE YOUR CRAP ELSEWHERE. I'm sure the other sam-users would agree with me, i'm obviously not the only one who is getting pissed off with all this dropping into our mailboxes every so often From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 18:17:19 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:51:06 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<16176.9502141751@sun.aston.ac.u] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: And on a ... From: goringgn Message-Id: <16176.9502141751@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: And on a similar vein to those above... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 998 Lines: 27 > > On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:47:50 +0100, goringgn said: > > > In keeping with the recent trend of this group I'd like to say that if you > > > are taking drugs or being abused then you can called child-line on: > > > > > 0800 11 11 > > > > I don't think that's right as there are not enough digits. > > > > Anyway, can we get this discussion off sam-users and start talking about > > Sams and Z80s again? Thanks. > > > > imc > > > On the contrary, it IS the correct number, although you should only ring > it if you're specifically in need of their specialist help. I would > reccommend the Samaritans (number in your 'phone book). > > I would suggest that you take this "discussion" out of this group, > though (perhaps personal eMail?), or else people'll start getting tired > of it. It was funny to start with, but it's getting tired... > > Will. > 9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk Oh sheesh! The child-line bit was meant to be a joke! So I forgot the Smiley! Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 18:19:41 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 00:12:23 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502141812.AA05724@bot31.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Pack of yanke... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502141812.AA05724@bot31.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Pack of yankee bast.... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 347 Lines: 13 oh bugger off will ya! I said I wouldn't say anything more on the bloody subject!\ /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 18:39:58 1995 From: Mr Andrew M Gale Message-Id: <9502141750.AA08515@central.surrey.ac.uk> Subject: Re: And on a similar vein to those above... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 17:50:58 GMT In-Reply-To: <7908.199502141215@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk>; from "William Easson" at Feb 14, 95 12:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 654 Lines: 15 Leave SAM Alone? I say do what you want with it. But sorry Simon, I have to disagree that the present SAM is inadequate - it's 5yrs (5ish) old and people haven't just left it on their desk waiting until the day that some hardware mod comes out to make it usable. They've been using it all along. If you need a better serial port to deal with some dodgy equipment then you're probably clever enough to sort it out yourself. I was looking in the technical manual at the spec of the SAM and it says that the component life is >5yrs - presumably 5yrs is the very worst. What then of SAMs sold after 5 yrs - is their component life >0yrs?! From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 18:53:36 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Expansion? (was Re:Childline) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:50:10 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <29237.9502141300@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from "Tim Paveley" at Feb 14, 95 01:00:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 393 Lines: 13 To tell the truth, I don't like the Kaleidoscope either, but that's just because it's a complete pile of.... Never mind... Simon (Take 1 D-type octal latch, one piece of addressing logic, one set of 7 resistors. Plug one end of these resistors into the output of the latch, the other end into the RGB and Intensity lines of the SAM... voila. One Kaleidoscope *grumble*) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 18:59:43 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: SAD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:55:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <6824.9502141336@pasta.st-andrews.ac.uk> from "Colin G Piggot" at Feb 14, 95 02:36:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1058 Lines: 28 > > > /> > > ( //---------------------------------------------------\ > > (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> > > ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ > > \> > > > Just one small point!!!! I'm not a bleedin' addict!!!!!! > > I take drugs for fun! Not because I have to! > > Do you all not drink (except those of you who don't! :)!!! > > I bet some of you even smoke! And if you can seriously tell me that doctors are > > liers when they say that tobacco is alot worse for you than cannabis then I'll > > send one round to take your temporature mateys! > > > etc.... etc.... etc... > > > Anyway.......I don't want to talk about my private life to people who know > > fuckall squared about the subject! > > GOOD. TAKE YOUR CRAP ELSEWHERE. Btw although we're not moderated, if people get too out of hand either a quick note to Arnt or a quick hack by me can remove this guy from the list. Just a warning. Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 19:11:49 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502141842.AA05693@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: And on a similar vein to those above... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 19:42:55 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9502141750.AA08515@central.surrey.ac.uk> from "Mr Andrew M Gale" at Feb 14, 95 05:50:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 698 Lines: 16 > I was looking in the technical manual at the spec of the > SAM and it says that the component life is >5yrs - presumably > 5yrs is the very worst. What then of SAMs sold after 5 yrs - > is their component life >0yrs?! > Presumably >5yrs means >5yrs in use? Ob.sam.per.req: SAM Compatible card for plug-it-into-a-PC-box-to- finally-make-some-use-of-it. -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 19:22:59 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:14:10 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Power consumption of the Sam Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 362 Lines: 9 The reason I'm interested in the Sam to begin with is for a robotics project. The Sam would seem to be just competant enough to make a sophisticated robot, however, how much power is consumed by the Sam. I would base my project on an ST, but these suck batteries dry too quickly. A Speccy would be okay, but it lacks a few conveniences of the Sam. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 19:23:43 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 01:01:39 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502141901.AA06136@bot31.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: eh? From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502141901.AA06136@bot31.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: eh? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 638 Lines: 24 > Btw although we're not moderated, if people get too out of hand either a > quick note to Arnt or a quick hack by me can remove this guy from the list. > > Just a warning. > > Simon Well if you really don't want me here then bloody well kick me off! I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry SIMON!! GEEZE-swiss-cheese! What the fuck does a guy have to do! /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 19:27:45 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:09:17 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: A few questions... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 427 Lines: 9 Are there any US Sam users? Are there any adaptors for using the Sam with a VGA monitor? Is the video digitizer mentioned in the web pages available now? If not VGA, are there any other forms of video output which might be convenient for a US user? Are there any utilities that let the Sam read PC disks? Are there any conversion utilities for transferring Sam graphic formats to common PC ones (GIF, TGA, TIF)? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 19:35:28 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502141931.AA05964@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Power consumption of the Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 20:31:13 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Gene Fender" at Feb 14, 95 02:14:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 974 Lines: 23 > > The reason I'm interested in the Sam to begin > with is for a robotics project. The Sam would > seem to be just competant enough to make a > sophisticated robot, however, how much > power is consumed by the Sam. I would base > my project on an ST, but these suck batteries > dry too quickly. A Speccy would be okay, but > it lacks a few conveniences of the Sam. Conveniences like what? The only thing I can think of is RAM - but you can get 128K now...err..well, for quite a while..and that should suffice for most things, even AI. But the exact consumption? It's in the HW-manual, but I haven not got one here..... -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 19:35:52 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Pack of yankee bast.... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 19:05:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502141812.AA05724@bot31.causeway.qub.ac.uk> from "Creature Feature! *PHART*" at Feb 15, 95 00:12:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 181 Lines: 10 > > oh bugger off will ya! > > I said I wouldn't say anything more on the bloody subject!\ Okay -- case closed then. Right people -- back to sam-users please. Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 19:38:43 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 20:32:53 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<16724.9502141932@sun.aston.ac.u] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Power con... From: goringgn Message-Id: <16724.9502141932@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Power consumption of the Sam X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 88 Lines: 3 I'll have a look on the bottom of my power-pack tonight, and mail tomorrow. Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 19:40:33 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:18:26 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Animation on the Sam Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 345 Lines: 8 Is there an animation player for the Sam? Would it be too much to ask the Sam to play back an AVI or Quicktime movie (even a postage stamp sized one)? Theoretically, I imagine the Sam could even do a bit of realtime 3D - something like Doom. Afterall, Doom's predecessor Wolfenstein was developed originally on an AppleIIgs - scary. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 19:43:00 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:10:48 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Anyone have a used Sam? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 116 Lines: 4 I assume that the Sam Elite is still available, but if there are any used models out there, I might consider. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 19:55:53 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502141926.AA05920@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: SAD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 20:26:54 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 14, 95 06:55:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 664 Lines: 23 > > Btw although we're not moderated, if people get too out of hand either a > quick note to Arnt or a quick hack by me can remove this guy from the list. Ah! Are we talking fakemail here??? Arnt won't be very pleased with that :) > > Just a warning. I think he has got the picture here... > > Simon > > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 20:14:06 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502141945.AA06040@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Animation on the Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 20:45:38 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Gene Fender" at Feb 14, 95 02:18:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1288 Lines: 32 > > Is there an animation player for the Sam? Would > it be too much to ask the Sam to play back an > AVI or Quicktime movie (even a postage stamp > sized one)? Theoretically, I imagine the Sam could > even do a bit of realtime 3D - something like Doom. > Afterall, Doom's predecessor Wolfenstein was > developed originally on an AppleIIgs - scary. You could do about 15000 random pixels on the SAM in each frame (actually 7500 random 2*pixis). This is about 30% of the entire screen, which is not too bad. Now, random pairs of pixels is not that usefull, so if you have to involve some maths, that reduces it - quite drastically. Now, a wired-frame thing should be no problem at all. A filled vector thingy could be done with <50 polygons (which is not very much). However, a shaded (though, simple) filled vector thingy with some maths??? At most 10 small polygons?! What about a graphics accelrator, anyone??? ;) > > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 20:47:19 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: SAM Power consumption... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 20:35:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 148 Lines: 8 PSU output is: 5 V at 2A DC 12 V at 100mA DC SAM Power consumption is: 11.2W -- I assume that's with both drives... Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 14 21:07:50 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 15:33:49 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: eh? -Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 136 Lines: 4 I just subscribed to all this today, but I must say that the signal to noise ratio is not too pretty, but I'll han around anyway. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 07:31:29 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 15 Feb 95 03:38:39 +0000 Subject: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2772 Lines: 63 On (14 Feb 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote... s> From: Simon Cooke s> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 10:40:04 +0000 (GMT) s> *grins* Okay... I'll look at it in more detail.. It's very sempli realy;-) > s> Ah, but the /RFSH line is the problem -- it doesn't appear to refresh > s> often enough... s> The problem that I was thinking of is the frequency of WAIT states s> buggering it up -- and what if an external device uses BUSREQ too? That was the reason for me shelving the ZilogDMA daughter board as although it'd provide a potentially very fast memory to memory xfer method it fails to generate any refresh cycles in it's faster modes ie when it grabs the bus until terminal count is reached. This means that the size of data moved would have to be restricted to allow refreshes to occour as the next block of params' were loaded into the DMA, thus making it not worth the investment... The WAIT state situation is as it was on the speccy and any other DRAM'd z80 machine ie /WAIT must not be asserted for more than about 1mS at a time.. As in the example I gave 64000 Machine-code instructions per second is a minimum speed that'll safely refresh DRAMS transparently. BTW that ASIC reset 8MHz clock loss bug also affects the 6MHz CPU clock and causes some bits to lose their memory during a hard-reset. I think many inconsistancies in the SAM could be fixed by simply stealing some of the 24MHz master clock and hard dividing it externaly and usin that to replace the 6/8MHz clock signals. Also could use a 12MHz output for when I can get hold of that Z84C50 CPU;-) s> Yeah, but could it be the IORQ & M1 both going low at the start of the s> interrupt that causes the problems? Could the ASIC be receiving spurious s> IO read/writes? It shouldn't as that's the standard z80/8080 interupt acknowledge cycle, in ALL modes, Bruce MUST've known that for years before the ASIC was designed and as the ASIC is the only current source for interupts to the z80 it shouldn't be looking for any I/O whilst it's interupting the z80... Anyway I'd expect that IORQ would have to be qualified by a corisponding RD or WR signal prior to initiating ASIC port decoding... Though only Bruce would have such insider details:-( You could test the theory by using an active M1 to disqualify the active IORQ to the ASIC. I don't think it'd make any difference. Oh thanks for explaining to imc about zilog peripherals and RETI, saves my typin:-) Regards Johnathan. ... I wrote my own benchmark. My machine is now 500MHz! -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 09:26:12 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502150908.AA09102@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: eh? -Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 10:08:14 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Gene Fender" at Feb 14, 95 03:33:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 757 Lines: 21 > > I just subscribed to all this today, but I must > say that the signal to noise ratio is not too > pretty, but I'll han around anyway. Goody, and welcome. Like on all mailinglist we have some noise, but usually it is a lot more technical and enjoyful. OH, BTW: Are ppl still having trouble with my mailer? I think it was Johnathan and Simon that was having problems (that is their smtpd or something). -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 09:53:32 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users-owner , sam-users Subject: RE: A few questions... Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 09:11:00 PST Message-Id: <2F423470@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 26 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 830 Lines: 26 > Are there any US Sam users? Are there any adaptors > for using the Sam with a VGA monitor I think Mr Rookyard & Mr Cooke were onto this.... > Is the video digitizer mentioned in the web pages available now? See above. > If not VGA, are there any other forms of video output > which might be convenient for a US user? Are there > any utilities that let the Sam read PC disks? Yeah, KE_Disk is my favorite, I suppose you could ask Geoff for a copy :) > Are there > any conversion utilities for transferring Sam graphic > formats to common PC ones (GIF, TGA, TIF)? There is a sam->BMP converter by Paul Crompton, but strange things happen with this (the screen gets split in two) but this can be fixed, and whilst we are on the subject, has anybody got a newer/better BMP converter? Dan Doore From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 11:42:29 1995 From: gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Message-Id: >From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 11:18:58 +0000 In-Reply-To: ee31ag -- "Re: And on a similar vein to those above..." (Feb 14, 5:50pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: And on a similar vein to those above... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 420 Lines: 13 On Feb 14, 5:50pm in "Re: And on a similar vein to those above...", you warbled: ] Leave SAM Alone? I say do what you want with it. But ] sorry Simon, I have to disagree that the present SAM ] is inadequate - it's 5yrs (5ish) old and people haven't ] just left it on their desk waiting until the day that ] some hardware mod comes out to make it usable. They've Yes I have. Sorry, and all that. Geoff From imc Wed Feb 15 11:45:55 1995 Subject: Re: A few questions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 11:45:55 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Gene Fender" at Feb 14, 95 2:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 977 Lines: 22 Gene Fender writes: > Are there > any utilities that let the Sam read PC disks? KE_Disk has been mentioned, but incidentally there is also a utility that lets the Sun read/write Sam disks. :-) > Are there > any conversion utilities for transferring Sam graphic > formats to common PC ones (GIF, TGA, TIF)? I have written a program to convert mode 4 Sam screen pictures into XPM images (the conversion also goes the other way if the XPM contains 16 or fewer colours). It is, however, written in REXX. The PBMPlus graphics suite (look on your nearest archie server) contains utilities which can convert XPM images to any popular format. I have glued some of these together with a REXX program so that it can convert XPM files to GIF files. The program also contains logic to convert the XPM images into an older format which our copy of PBMPlus requires. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 11:52:49 1995 From: gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Message-Id: >From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 11:24:43 +0000 In-Reply-To: D.J.Doore -- "RE: A few questions..." (Feb 15, 9:11am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: A few questions... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 681 Lines: 21 On Feb 15, 9:11am in "RE: A few questions...", Dan warbled: ] > Are there ] > any utilities that let the Sam read PC disks? ] ] Yeah, KE_Disk is my favorite, I suppose you could ask Geoff for a copy :) Actually that's probably the worst thing he could do - since my Sam is resetting every other time I insert a disk it's becoming increasingly difficult to copy stuff :) I suggest downloading it off ftp.nvg.unit.no:pub/sam-coupe/utils/misc (or something) instead. You'll need to get teledisk off your local site aswell... I just remembered I was s'posed to be working on a SAM FAQ, wasn't I... Oops :) Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 11:57:07 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: A few questions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 11:50:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <2F423470@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 15, 95 09:11:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 544 Lines: 21 > > > Are there > > any conversion utilities for transferring Sam graphic > > formats to common PC ones (GIF, TGA, TIF)? > > There is a sam->BMP converter by Paul Crompton, but strange things happen > with this (the screen gets split in two) but this can be fixed, and whilst > we are > on the subject, has anybody got a newer/better BMP converter? > > Dan Doore > Yep - I have, and I've had it since 1992 *cough* I'll put up a copy on NVG when I have the time... It won't do mode 3 properly yet though... Simon From imc Wed Feb 15 11:59:28 1995 Subject: RE: A few questions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 11:59:28 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Mars Bar" at Feb 15, 95 11:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 171 Lines: 6 On Wed, 15 Feb 1995 11:24:43 +0000, Mars Bar said: > I just remembered I was s'posed to be working on a SAM FAQ, wasn't I... Why, what's wrong with Graham's? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 12:33:01 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: eh? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 12:00:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502141901.AA06136@bot31.causeway.qub.ac.uk> from "Creature Feature! *PHART*" at Feb 13, 95 01:01:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 365 Lines: 15 > Well if you really don't want me here then bloody well kick me off! > > I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry SIMON!! > > GEEZE-swiss-cheese! > > What the fuck does a guy have to do! Just calm down and make the world a much better place for everyone... that'd be a start... Signal to noise on here is shitty enough as it is... Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 12:46:58 1995 From: gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Message-Id: >From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 12:08:40 +0000 In-Reply-To: Ian.Collier -- "RE: A few questions..." (Feb 15, 12:59pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: A few questions... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 427 Lines: 14 On Feb 15, 12:59pm in "RE: A few questions...", you warbled: ] On Wed, 15 Feb 1995 11:24:43 +0000, Mars Bar said: ] > I just remembered I was s'posed to be working on a SAM FAQ, wasn't I... ] ] Why, what's wrong with Graham's? ] ] imc I guess nothing. I haven't seen it. But when it was first discussed last year I was supposed to be doing it. Evidently he got fed up of waiting and did it instead :) Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 13:15:28 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <5406.9502151251@bosch.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Grahams FAQ To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users mailing list) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 12:51:11 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 343 Lines: 16 I'll post this for him :) Graham's FAQ is presently uncomplete, although it can be got at through my web pages @ http://whig.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93/Coupe/FAQ.txt for the standard text version, or change to FAQ.html for the nice html'ised version. Tim -- Tim Paveley Maths with Computer Science University of Southampton From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 15:46:05 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 14:35:03 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<8718.9502151335@sun.aston.ac.uk] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: RE: A few que... From: goringgn Message-Id: <8718.9502151335@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: A few questions... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 574 Lines: 20 > On Wed, 15 Feb 1995 11:24:43 +0000, Mars Bar said: > > I just remembered I was s'posed to be working on a SAM FAQ, wasn't I... > > Why, what's wrong with Graham's? > > imc > Here here! Just for that pang of guilt Mars Bar's put in me, I'm going to spend this afternoon updating it! Oh, and BTW Colin P, it's updated and Tim says he'll *probably* get it up there this afternoon. I hope we are a happy little munchkin now. I certainly am, I just discovered a new brand of sweet that lasts ages and tastes great. Cloud 9, here we come... Graham From imc Wed Feb 15 15:51:50 1995 Subject: RE: A few questions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 15:51:50 GMT In-Reply-To: <8718.9502151335@sun.aston.ac.uk>; from "goringgn" at Feb 15, 95 2:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 199 Lines: 7 On Wed, 15 Feb 1995 14:35:03 +0100, goringgn said: > I certainly am, I just discovered a new brand of sweet that lasts ages and > tastes great. Well you might have told us what it is! imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 15:51:51 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 14:53:24 GMT Subject: Re: A few questions... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <1D081372C2@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1039 Lines: 35 > From: simonc@jumper.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) > Subject: Re: A few questions... > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date sent: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 11:50:36 +0000 (GMT) > Copies to: simonc@jumper.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) > Send reply to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > > > > > Are there > > > any conversion utilities for transferring Sam graphic > > > formats to common PC ones (GIF, TGA, TIF)? > > > > There is a sam->BMP converter by Paul Crompton, but strange things happen > > with this (the screen gets split in two) but this can be fixed, and whilst > > we are > > on the subject, has anybody got a newer/better BMP converter? > > > > Dan Doore > > > > Yep - I have, and I've had it since 1992 *cough* > > I'll put up a copy on NVG when I have the time... > > It won't do mode 3 properly yet though... > > Simon > > Unlike my .BMP convertor, of course.. which I've had for an equal amount of time... :) DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 16:36:57 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: BMP Barmy, Nuts are we... Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 16:05:00 PST Message-Id: <2F42954F@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 32 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 767 Lines: 32 > > Yep - I have, and I've had it since 1992 *cough* > > > > I'll put up a copy on NVG when I have the time... > > > > It won't do mode 3 properly yet though... > > > > Simon > > > > > > Unlike my .BMP convertor, of course.. which I've had for an equal > amount of time... :) > > DMZ > === Right, in this "Battle of the BMP's" what I need is a BMP converter that is able to do a decent job on the palette as my current one does strange things with greyscale images every now and again. I'm not too bothered about ones that allow bitmaps in excess of 256x192 as that is not a problem (I mess with the images beforhand) but the colours are getting me down. Dan. P.S. First to UUencode& mail it to me gets a choccie biscuit :) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 17:43:43 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 18:31:04 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<1462.9502151731@sun.aston.ac.uk] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: RE: A few que... From: goringgn Message-Id: <1462.9502151731@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: A few questions... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 627 Lines: 21 > On Wed, 15 Feb 1995 14:35:03 +0100, goringgn said: > > I certainly am, I just discovered a new brand of sweet that lasts ages and > > tastes great. > > Well you might have told us what it is! > > imc > Well, since you asked they are called Jolly Ranchers, they are a sort of boiled sweet, only a lot harder and not so brittle. Come in packs with a random selection of these flavours: Strawberry - Not bad Cherry - Bit like the strawberry Apple - Superb Orange - Good Water Melon - Supremely enjoyable. Excellent! And at 26p for a tube of about 10 or 11, they are not too bad value either. Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 19:22:12 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: BMP Barmy, Nuts are we... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 18:35:20 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <2F42954F@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 15, 95 04:05:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 875 Lines: 28 > > > > Unlike my .BMP convertor, of course.. which I've had for an equal > > amount of time... :) > > > > DMZ > > === > > Right, in this "Battle of the BMP's" what I need is a BMP converter that is > able > to do a decent job on the palette as my current one does strange things with > > greyscale images every now and again. > > I'm not too bothered about ones that allow bitmaps in excess of 256x192 as > that > is not a problem (I mess with the images beforhand) but the colours are > getting > me down. Well, mine will correctly convert colours and images to the PC.. In fact it was used to do the Entropy screenshots in the last issue of YS... The Mode 3 problem will be solved when I can be bothered coming up with something that does 512x192x16 colour BMPs (bloody Microsoft not sticking to their own specifications) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 19:42:22 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 19:01:07 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6818@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: SAD X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 831 Lines: 26 In message <0098BF99.8BAA95BE.9@vaxd.dct.ac.uk> mcscs3cgm@vaxd.dct.ac.uk writes: > > Come on - there's enough crap on this list as it is. > > If you want to talk about drugs, join a drugs group - then when you > grow out of them like everyone else, maybe you'll come back to SAM... > > Colin Macdonald > > I agree, and a certain user who keeps using the F word is not helping either. Not that I worry about it, but this os for SAM stuff. The change the hardware boys... Fine, but if you are doing that, you might as well call it something else with a SAM and Spectrum compat mode. A Sam is a Sam. HOWEVER, I would support compatible replacements for the RS232 interface that WORKED properly. Thio has to be a priority even to swap data easily with other machines. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 19:42:47 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 19:10:16 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6819@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: eh? X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 557 Lines: 21 In message <9502141901.AA06136@bot31.causeway.qub.ac.uk> Creature Feature! *PHART* writes: > > Btw although we're not moderated, if people get too out of hand either a > > quick note to Arnt or a quick hack by me can remove this guy from the list. > > > > Just a warning. > > > > Simon > > Well if you really don't want me here then bloody well kick me off! > > I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry SIMON!! > > GEEZE-swiss-cheese! > > What the fuck does a guy have to do! Act like an adult? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 20:03:39 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 14:18:54 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: BMP conversion suggestions... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 749 Lines: 17 Perhaps it would be better to do the conversion on the PC end. What with Photoshop handy, the image could be scaled and converted to a SAM equivalent palette before using another utility to write the actual file in the appropriate format. How many simultaneous colors can the SAM display in what graphic modes (the FAQ is not very explicit save the 512x192 mode)? Can all 128 be used? If so, what is the bit plane arrangement? How many levels per channel (RGB)? With 128 colors, something must be weird. If every channel can have the same number of levels then the total number of colors should be the number of levels cubed (i.e. 8 levels per channel would be 8 red x 8 green x 8 blue = 512 colors, like on an Atari ST). From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 20:07:43 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 18:48:09 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6816@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Please... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 85 Lines: 6 Lets have lewss drugs please... Thank you... Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 20:08:05 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 18:53:28 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6817@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 653 Lines: 20 In message <9502141102.aa16992@valar.ee.surrey.ac.uk> ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk writes: > > All this talk of new hardware, what about some kind of clever > > program that could just convert the SAM software to run on, > > shock horror, a PC? > > A SAM Emulator for the PC? Wouldn't Bob Brenchley just *love* that! > > > Not an emulator as such, a kind of auto porter? Gerton thinks the PC is not fast enough to do a really good job yet. We looked at it when he was over here. To answer your implied question, not everyone would buy a PC. I still sell Spectrum stuff to those with real Spectra.. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 20:08:52 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 19:21:08 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6820@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Will we see... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 208 Lines: 14 So, how about some status reports. What we seem to have is 1001 unfinished projects. Hard drive? Pro-Dos Comms? Native Comms? New comms interface? What else? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 15 20:13:34 1995 Message-Id: <28322.199502151226@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: eh? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 12:26:32 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9502141901.AA06136@bot31.causeway.qub.ac.uk> from "Creature Feature! *PHART*" at Feb 13, 95 01:01:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 549 Lines: 21 > > > Btw although we're not moderated, if people get too out of hand either a > > quick note to Arnt or a quick hack by me can remove this guy from the list. > > > > Just a warning. > > > > Simon > > Well if you really don't want me here then bloody well kick me off! > > I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry SIMON!! > > GEEZE-swiss-cheese! > > What the f*ck does a guy have to do! > Hmm. Perhaps we should forgive and forget, I don't think he'll do that again in a hurry. Let's not get flame-happy! Will From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 07:33:09 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 16 Feb 95 02:38:16 +0000 Subject: SAM Power consumption... Message-Id: <375_9502160707@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1725 Lines: 43 On (14 Feb 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote to All... s> From: Simon Cooke s> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 20:35:01 +0000 (GMT) s> PSU output is: 5 V at 2A DC s> 12 V at 100mA DC s> SAM Power consumption is: s> 11.2W -- I assume that's with both drives... Under normal operation without drives spinning the SAM consumes the least of any of the ZX derived machines! In fact the greediest component in the SAM is the z80B CPU! If that was replaced by a CMOS z80 that'd probably reduce the consumption by almost half! As for robotics control or smart robots etc the SAM motherboard is near ideal! To run it only requires the +5Volt supply and an I/O pcb could be designed that fits into the second drive plug and programs loaded via the MIDI/NET or TAPE. Keyboard can be attached or removed whilst online (carefully of course;) 256k of on-board RAM which could be expanded to 512k with a slight reduction in robustness whilst outside the case... +12v supply can be switched on or off whilst online as it only powers the discrete 1 transistor buffer of the composite video output. So can be used to setup the program and then removed to let it get on with it! Just a thought but with an 8bit 8channel ADC chip on a I/O pcb with normal digital I/O ports too it would be possible to have respectable speech recognition and therfore control of a SAM controlled robot! Using Machine code quite amazing things *should* be possible! Johnathan. ... The clash of ideas is the sound of freedom. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 10:35:59 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: BMP conversion suggestions... Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 09:35:00 PST Message-Id: <2F438B8F@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 36 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1384 Lines: 36 > Perhaps it would be better to do the conversion > on the PC end. What with Photoshop handy, the > image could be scaled and converted to a SAM > equivalent palette before using another utility to > write the actual file in the appropriate format. This I do, I use Paint Shop Pro to crop& dither the images, a handy palette file of Sam greyscales but the palette still gets screwed on conversion, even when I replace the palette with greys, it still looks wierd. > How many simultaneous colors can the SAM display > in what graphic modes (the FAQ is not very > explicit save the 512x192 mode)? Can all 128 > be used? Yep, if you use line interrupts but this is not practical for images, the best I have seen is 32 colours in Mode 4 that still looks alright. Has anbody got a converter that can take a 32/256 BMP and do this? > If so, what is the bit plane arrangement? > How many levels per channel (RGB)? With 128 > colors, something must be weird. If every channel > can have the same number of levels then the total > number of colors should be the number of levels > cubed (i.e. 8 levels per channel would be > 8 red x 8 green x 8 blue = 512 colors, like on an > Atari ST). I know that the Sam palette is weird and has 128 colours and that's as far as me and the palette go, any enlightenment from others? Dan Doore. -~-~-~-~-~ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 10:41:52 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: SAD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 09:51:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <6818@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Feb 15, 95 07:01:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 617 Lines: 15 > In message <0098BF99.8BAA95BE.9@vaxd.dct.ac.uk> mcscs3cgm@vaxd.dct.ac.uk writes: > The change the hardware boys... > > Fine, but if you are doing that, you might as well call it > something else with a SAM and Spectrum compat mode. A Sam is a > Sam. HOWEVER, I would support compatible replacements for the > RS232 interface that WORKED properly. Thio has to be a priority > even to swap data easily with other machines. Anyone care to suggest port addresses for the DTR, DSR, CD and RI lines to be written/read from? (I'm workin' on it, I'm workin' on it!!! Just a little more time...!) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 10:44:00 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Will we see... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 09:56:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <6820@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Feb 15, 95 07:21:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1631 Lines: 36 > So, how about some status reports. What we seem to have is 1001 > unfinished projects. > Hard drive? Version 0.3 of the pcb was routed today -- we've found that a lot of bugs on our interfaces were due to not decoding the M1 line, which we've sorted out now. We're still building up version 0.2 of the pcb on the bench, and 0.1 is sitting there quite happily, having proved that it works (we have read and written sectors to the hard-drive). > Pro-Dos Comms? <> > Native Comms? Other than the Commix stuff, it's going quite well. Keyscan routines have been set to 1/25th of a second to improve data-->screen throughput, cursor is now on an idle-time based delay. Basically, as long as stuff is being transmitted, the cursor will toggle (the idea being so that if people hold down keys, the cursor will still show them where they are). If data is being received, the cursor is deactivated, and will not reactivate until 1/10th of a second after the last byte is received. It then nicely flashes. Currently implemented is three text modes (not switchable yet), the scrollback buffer is there (but doesn't yet scroll back), and --hey-- I've just come up with a really cool and quick way of scrolling the buffer screen!!! *grins*. Capture files are there in spirit, but the file i/o isn't in there yet. And a lot of the features can be disabled (the code will re-write itself to get rid of them) for speed. > New comms interface? Not my problem really :) I thought that was Bob's domain... > What else? Uh... Quazar, the MultiROM, the RYAN (I think). Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 11:04:35 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 11:14:41 +0100 X400-Originator: cgp@st-andrews.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<8406.9502161014@pasta.st-andrew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Will we s... From: Colin G Piggot Message-Id: <8406.9502161014@pasta.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Will we see... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 372 Lines: 16 > So, how about some status reports. What we seem to have is 1001 > unfinished projects. > Hard drive? > Pro-Dos Comms? > Native Comms? > New comms interface? Si answered the above, my turn! > What else? Quazar Surround, brief progress report - main unit finished, sampler module just about finished, quite a few bits of software done. Colin Piggot. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 11:12:14 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: BMP conversion suggestions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 11:04:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <2F438B8F@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 16, 95 09:35:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1805 Lines: 47 > > How many simultaneous colors can the SAM display > > in what graphic modes (the FAQ is not very > > explicit save the 512x192 mode)? Can all 128 > > be used? > > Yep, if you use line interrupts but this is not practical for images, > the best I have seen is 32 colours in Mode 4 that still looks alright. > > Has anbody got a converter that can take a 32/256 BMP and do this? Nope... btw, for clarity, Mode 4 displays 16 colours, in a chunky pel format -- eg each byte holds: CL3|CL2|CL1|CL0||CL3|CL2|CL1|CL0 -- || marks boundary for two adjacent pixels Each byte holds 2 pixels, one in each nybble, the left hand pixel is in the upper nybble, right hand pixel in the lower nybble. The 4 bits form an offset into the 16 position Colour Look Up Table, giving 16 colours in mode 4. The colour look up table entries are made up as such: xx|GREEN1|RED1|BLUE1|INTENSITY|GREEN0|RED0|BLUE0 xx = don't care. The intensity bit has half the value of the RED0 GREEN0 and BLUE0 bits, but is applied to all. Going off the ST style of doing things, think of GREEN1,RED1 and BLUE1 being worth 4 intensity units, GREEN0, RED0 and BLUE0 being worth 2 intensity units, and INTENSITY being worth 1, but on all channels... > > If so, what is the bit plane arrangement? > > How many levels per channel (RGB)? With 128 > > colors, something must be weird. If every channel > > can have the same number of levels then the total > > number of colors should be the number of levels > > cubed (i.e. 8 levels per channel would be > > 8 red x 8 green x 8 blue = 512 colors, like on an > > Atari ST). > > I know that the Sam palette is weird and has 128 colours and that's > as far as me and the palette go, any enlightenment from others? See above ;) Simon From imc Thu Feb 16 11:56:17 1995 Subject: RE: BMP conversion suggestions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 11:56:17 GMT In-Reply-To: <2F438B8F@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 16, 95 9:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 5051 Lines: 97 On Thu, 16 Feb 95 09:35:00 PST, Doore, Dan [MIS] said: > > Perhaps it would be better to do the conversion > > on the PC end. What with Photoshop handy, the > > image could be scaled and converted > This I do, I use Paint Shop Pro to crop& dither the images, > a handy palette file of Sam greyscales but the palette still > gets screwed on conversion, even when I replace the palette > with greys, it still looks wierd. I have digitised some images for the Sam, and the process is not pretty! I am using a Sun workstation (as everyone should know by now :-) ) and I can therefore write the file on a Sam disk directly when it is finished. The process goes something like... 1. Use "xv" to scale the image down to fit on the Sam screen. Note that the x-axis has to be reduced by a factor of 1.25 compared to the y-axis in order to make the image look OK on a Sam (why on earth did they do this - the Spectrum has square pixels but the Sam does not!). Also use xv to make the image brighter/darker/whatever if necessary. 2. Use "PBMPlus" to dither the image. Now there is a program in this toolkit called ppmquant which can either: (a) choose N colours and dither the image to those, or (b) dither the image using a specified set of colours. However it can not (c) choose the best N colours from a specified set of colours. So I have to do one followed by the other: first dither the image using all 128 Sam colours, then choose 16 of them. Unfortunately, the result still isn't coloured with Sam colours, and it has been dithered twice. So I optionally adjust the set of colours, and then use the colourmap of the final image to dither the original image into a new image (with me so far?...). 3. I have a RYO program that transforms the image so created into a mode 4 Sam image. If the colours are slightly out, the program chooses the nearest ones. It is slightly easier to create a greyscale image. 14 shades of grey can make a quite respectable image. I use PBMPlus to change the image into a greyscale, then dither the image in 14 selected shades of grey. My program for transforming an image into a mode 4 Sam picture can automatically adjust the chosen shades into the "blue-grey" colourscale that the Sam uses. > > How many simultaneous colors can the SAM display > > in what graphic modes (the FAQ is not very > > explicit save the 512x192 mode)? Can all 128 > > be used? OK, well... The Sam has a 128-colour palette. The bits of the palette are: 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+ | G1 | R1 | B1 | br | G0 | R0 | B0 | +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+ where: R, G and B represent colour levels in two bits, with bit 1 being the more significant. br represents "brightness", which is an extra "half a bit" added to each of R, G and B. The display hardware contains a 16-element colour look-up table (CLUT) which translates bit values obtained from the display into RGB levels written in the above format. Any register of the CLUT may be changed at any time. The usual maximum of colours on the screen is therefore 16, but it is possible, by arranging a program to change CLUT registers at appropriate times during the TV scan, to display a picture with more colours on screen at once. The Sam provides a line interrupt which may be used for this purpose; it triggers at the start of a selected TV scan line (and can then be changed to trigger at further scan lines in the same frame). Changing CLUT registers at line interrupts is supported by Sam BASIC. (Btw has anyone noticed that the Sam ROM does not take any notice of the line interrupt vector?). I have seen a program which displays pictures with more than 16 colours by changing the palette in this way, but I have no idea how the pictures were created to take advantage of this. Each pixel is recorded as a 4-bit value in mode 4, with the 192 lines of 256 pixels being written in sequence. Mode 3 is similar except that it has 512 2-bit pixels on each line, so a mode 3 screen usually contains only 4 colours. In modes 1 and 2 the screen is stored in two parts: a 256x192 bitmap and an attribute map. The attribute map contains for each "cell" on the screen two 3-bit values giving the interpretations of the 0-bits and the 1-bits which appear in that cell in the bitmap. It also contains a "bright" bit which, if set, causes 8 to be added to both 3-bit values, and a "flash" bit which, if set, causes the two colour values to be exchanged approximately twice per second [I'm not sure whether there is a "flash" in mode 2 - anyone?]. In mode 1 the cells are 8x8 pixels, while in mode 2 the cells are 8x1 pixels. The attributes are always recorded in sequence, and in mode 2, so is the bitmap. In mode 1, the bitmap is recorded in "Spectrum" order, which is rather complicated. That any use to you?... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 12:48:16 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502161232.AA19297@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Will we see... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 13:32:22 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 16, 95 09:56:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 476 Lines: 16 > > What else? > Uh... Quazar, the MultiROM, the RYAN (I think). ^^^^^^^^ The what??? > > Simon > > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 13:02:57 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9502161243.AA30575@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Just yapping again! To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 12:43:34 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9502131701.AA06372@bot15.causeway.qub.ac.uk> from "Creature Feature! *PHART*" at Feb 13, 95 11:00:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 326 Lines: 19 > > YEAH! Kids, don't do drugs! Give them all to me! > > I'm the only who really appreciates them anyway! 8) > > > Keep on tokin' kids! > > > Nothing wrong with the odd 30 quids worth every now and then. I am of the belief that it should be legal - people have the right to choose. Lord B' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 13:51:54 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 14:12:24 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<22854.9502161312@sun.aston.ac.u] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Just yapp... From: goringgn Message-Id: <22854.9502161312@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Just yapping again! X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 394 Lines: 21 > > YEAH! Kids, don't do drugs! Give them all to me! > > > > I'm the only who really appreciates them anyway! 8) > > > > > > Keep on tokin' kids! > > > > > > > > Nothing wrong with the odd 30 quids worth every now and then. > > > > I am of the belief that it should be legal - people have the right to choose. > > > Lord B' > Oh fuck! Here we go again... From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 14:15:40 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: Will we see... Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 13:35:00 PST Message-Id: <2F43CA6A@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 11 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 199 Lines: 11 > > Uh... Quazar, the MultiROM, the RYAN (I think). > ^^^^^^^^ > The what??? The RYAN GIGGS (English Footballer) AKA I Gigabyte upgrade. Boom Boom Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 14:21:36 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: Just yapping again! Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 13:36:00 PST Message-Id: <2F43CA70@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 15 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 225 Lines: 15 > Nothing wrong with the odd 30 quids worth every now and then. > > > > I am of the belief that it should be legal - people have the right to choose. > > > Lord B' Whoa! Let's not start_this_ again. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 14:27:13 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: BMP conversion suggestions... Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 12:26:00 PST Message-Id: <2F43C9B0@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 38 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1649 Lines: 38 > I can therefore write the file on a Sam disk directly when it is finished. Question is, why can't I on my PC? Anbody prepared to do a solution as this would put an end to most of my miseries. > 2. Use "PBMPlus" to dither the image. Now there is a program in this > toolkit called ppmquant which can either: (a) choose N colours and > dither the image to those, or (b) dither the image using a specified > set of colours. However it can not (c) choose the best N colours > from a specified set of colours. So I have to do one followed by the > other: first dither the image using all 128 Sam colours, then choose > 16 of them. Unfortunately, the result still isn't coloured with Sam > colours, and it has been dithered twice. So I optionally adjust the > set of colours, and then use the colourmap of the final image to dither > the original image into a new image (with me so far?...). This is always a problem when converting a PC GIF or whatever to Sam format, because the screen resolution is so (relitivley) low, all the dithering shows up and so what looked good on your PC looks poo on the Sam. I find that it is best with images to resample them to 256x192 as opposed to resizing as this keeps more of the detail, unfortunatley only 256 greys or 16m colour images can be done in this way so the colours look poor when dithered down. I use either PSP or LView Pro to dither (usually with a Floyd-Steinburg algoritm) and this comes out OK in some cases but many screens are turned to crud. It seems you just can't win all of the time. Dan Doore. From imc Thu Feb 16 14:32:00 1995 Subject: RE: BMP conversion suggestions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 14:32:00 GMT In-Reply-To: <2F43C9B0@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 16, 95 12:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 398 Lines: 12 On Thu, 16 Feb 95 12:26:00 PST, Doore, Dan [MIS] said: > > I can therefore write the file on a Sam disk directly when it is finished. > Question is, why can't I on my PC? It should be fairly easy, if someone knows how to do disk I/O. If someone can do the dkio it shouldn't be too hard to port samtools across. But as I haven't a PC (as I keep saying...) I can't do this. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 14:42:36 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Will we see... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 14:34:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199502161232.AA19297@lyr.hiMolde.no> from "Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no" at Feb 16, 95 01:32:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 179 Lines: 10 > > Uh... Quazar, the MultiROM, the RYAN (I think). > ^^^^^^^^ > The What? Up to 1Gb of SIMMS drams off the back of a SAM... :) Simon From SPX3DMZ@cardiff.ac.uk Thu Feb 16 15:00:55 1995 From: David Zambonini To: ian.collier@uk.ac.oxford.comlab Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 14:59:29 GMT Subject: Oh no! Watch out for the .AUs!! Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <3525CA70CE@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Status: RO Content-Length: 228 Lines: 7 Errmm.. I've had a rather nifty idea for an frequency modulated sample player which uses a fourier transform of an original amplitude sampled file... you couldn't mail me the details on .AU files, could you? DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 15:10:21 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 20:57:28 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502161457.AA05185@bot28.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: eh......... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502161457.AA05185@bot28.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: eh......... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 715 Lines: 22 HEY Lord B, Its great to know at least one person isn't slagging me off! :) But I think we better stop anymore of this stuff. It annoys the others! I didn't want this to be thread of conversation so, enough is enough! Not that I'll stop doing drugs mind you......... And hey, Lord B, "May all your quarters be halfs, and may all your halfs by Ounces !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" 8) /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From imc Thu Feb 16 15:16:29 1995 Subject: Re: Oh no! Watch out for the .AUs!! To: SPX3DMZ@cardiff.ac.uk (David Zambonini) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 15:16:29 GMT In-Reply-To: <3525CA70CE@physx1s.cf.ac.uk>; from "David Zambonini" at Feb 16, 95 2:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 642 Lines: 20 On Thu, 16 Feb 1995 14:59:29 GMT, you said: > Errmm.. I've had a rather nifty idea for an frequency modulated sample > player which uses a fourier transform of an original amplitude > sampled file... Ummm.... EH?! > you couldn't mail me the details on .AU files, could > you? You have a Sun, haven't you? See... audio(4) audio_filehdr(3) audio_hdr(3) audio_ulaw2linear(3) raw2audio(6) and also /usr/demo/SOUND/multimedia/audio_filehdr.h. I think the only way to extract the ulaw conversion routines for conversion to another machine is to write a program to print out a table of values. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 15:41:57 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9502161533.AA03804@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SAM Power consumption... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 15:33:35 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <375_9502160707@centron.com> from "Johnathan Taylor" at Feb 16, 95 02:38:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1185 Lines: 28 > > As for robotics control or smart robots etc the SAM motherboard is near ideal! > To run it only requires the +5Volt supply and an I/O pcb could be designed that > fits into the second drive plug and programs loaded via the MIDI/NET or TAPE. > Keyboard can be attached or removed whilst online (carefully of course;) > > 256k of on-board RAM which could be expanded to 512k with a slight reduction > in robustness whilst outside the case... > > +12v supply can be switched on or off whilst online as it only powers the > discrete 1 transistor buffer of the composite video output. So can be used > to setup the program and then removed to let it get on with it! > > Just a thought but with an 8bit 8channel ADC chip on a I/O pcb with normal > digital I/O ports too it would be possible to have respectable speech > recognition and therfore control of a SAM controlled robot! Using Machine code > quite amazing things *should* be possible! > > Johnathan. > Lets have it in kit form then. I miss the days when Multimedia was about controling household items. A little robot to do the washing up and hover my room would be great :) Lord B' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 15:53:02 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9502161518.AA09722@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Expansion? (was Re:Childline) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 15:18:59 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Simon Cooke" at Feb 14, 95 06:50:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 346 Lines: 15 > > To tell the truth, I don't like the Kaleidoscope either, but that's just > because it's a complete pile of.... > > Never mind... > > Simon > You still have my Kaleidoscope, Simon. When can I have it back? Then again I still have you technical manual. On third's thought (?!) do I actually want the Kaleidoscope back. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 16:15:16 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9502161544.AA07881@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Just yapping again! To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 15:44:08 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <22854.9502161312@sun.aston.ac.uk> from "goringgn" at Feb 16, 95 02:12:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 610 Lines: 38 > > > > YEAH! Kids, don't do drugs! Give them all to me! > > > > > > I'm the only who really appreciates them anyway! 8) > > > > > > > > > Keep on tokin' kids! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing wrong with the odd 30 quids worth every now and then. > > > > > > > > I am of the belief that it should be legal - people have the right to choose. > > > > > > Lord B' > > > > Oh fuck! Here we go again... > Soz - I have been away for 4 days - I have just read all the messages. Had I known I would have kept my mouth shut. Sorry Graham :( Lord B' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 17:07:27 1995 From: ee31ag@mcs.surrey.ac.uk Subject: Re: SAM Power consumption... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 16:19:44 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9502161533.AA03804@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> from "Lord Blackadder" at Feb 16, 95 03:33:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502161620.aa00230@shadowfax.mcs.surrey.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 508 Lines: 13 > As for robotics control or smart robots etc the SAM motherboard is near ideal! > To run it only requires the +5Volt supply and an I/O pcb could be designed that > fits into the second drive plug and programs loaded via the MIDI/NET or TAPE. If you're going to go to that much trouble then I'd have thought that you may as well blow your own EPROM, or build your own z80 SBC and use the SAM as a development tool... and download your assembly code into EEPROM or something. -Andrew Gale From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 17:26:59 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 17:52:35 +0100 X400-Originator: 9264201e@udcf.glasgow.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<911.199502161641@lenzie.cent.gl] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: A Coupla Ques... From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Message-Id: <911.199502161641@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no In-Reply-To: <9502161518.AA09722@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: A Coupla Questions... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 304 Lines: 12 I have a couple of questions... 1... Can I get this mailing list in "DIGEST" format, and if so, how? 2... Is DRiVER in a new version now? I still have version 1. How can I upgrade? 3... Are there any applications that actually use DRiVER??? Well, okay, that's three... Will Easson From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 17:49:46 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Mails to sam-users Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 16:17:00 PST Message-Id: <2F43F831@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 22 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 824 Lines: 22 Could I ask a favour of all you pods on sam-users. My mail system is, as some love to point out frequently, poo. and we use a Windows version of msmail, which tragically hacks off all the header information and just tells me where the mail came from (i.e. sam-users-owner) and not it's history (i.e. who sent it). This means that when I get any mail where the user has not got a .sig or hasn't stuck their name at the bottom I have sod all idea where it has come from. If you could just stick something on the bottom it would be a great help and it would reduce the anonymity. Any comments of 'get a better mail system' will be ignored, take a look at the big picture and realise that loadsa poor scuffers like me are trapped in crap mail systems and we have to bloody well lump it . Dan Doore. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 18:58:46 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: A Coupla Questions... Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 17:36:00 PST Message-Id: <2F440D85@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 12 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 322 Lines: 12 > I have a couple of questions... > > 1... Can I get this mailing list in "DIGEST" format, and if so, how? We have had this question before and the answer remains the same. No. Unless somebody is prepared to do it.... Besides, if you're not willing to participate, why the hell are you on it? Dan Doore. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 18:59:13 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 19:34:15 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<13957.9502161834@sun.aston.ac.u] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: Mails to ... From: goringgn Message-Id: <13957.9502161834@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Mails to sam-users X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1447 Lines: 41 > Could I ask a favour of all you pods on sam-users. > > My mail system is, as some love to point out frequently, poo. > and we use a Windows version of msmail, which tragically > hacks off all the header information and just tells me where > the mail came from (i.e. sam-users-owner) and not it's > history (i.e. who sent it). > > This means that when I get any mail where the user has not > got a .sig or hasn't stuck their name at the bottom I have sod > all idea where it has come from. > > If you could just stick something on the bottom it would be a great > help and it would reduce the anonymity. > > Any comments of 'get a better mail system' will be ignored, take a > look at the big picture and realise that loadsa poor scuffers like > me are trapped in crap mail systems and we have to bloody well > lump it . > > Dan Doore. > Yep sure, I'll concur with this request. This has been a Graham Goring mail production. Copyright 1995 Graham Goring, that's GRAHAM GORING. For those who can't read small writing, that's GGGG RRRR AAA H H AAA M M G R R A A H H A A MM MM G GGG RRRR AAAAA HHHHH AAAAA M M M G G R R A A H H A A M M GGG R R A A H H A A M M GGGG OOO RRRR IIIII N N GGGG G O O R R I NN N G G GGG O O RRRR I N N N G GGG G G O O R R I N NN G G GGG OOO R R IIIII N N GGG Okay, Dan? ;) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 21:41:35 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 16:36:42 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: More on robotics... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 711 Lines: 18 Are there any SAM programming books (did someone laugh)? I need to know quite a bit in order to read and write the ports - especially if it is homegrown hardware. Does anyone already have a design for a motor controller? Voice recognition would be handy - perhaps the Quazar developer(s) could write voc-rec software? And how about a video digitiser? I have seen the new cam on a chip - an interface for this would be ideal. Has anyone modified a SAM to output NTSC? Perhaps (as I might have mentioned earlier) it is as simple as replacing the modulator, but I don't know. Any ideas? PAL won't be much of a problem anyway as I am a foreign video buff - about to purchase a PAL set. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 23:01:46 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 22:57:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... In-Reply-To: <911.199502161641@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 925 Lines: 35 On Thu, 16 Feb 1995, William Easson wrote: > I have a couple of questions... > > 1... Can I get this mailing list in "DIGEST" format, and if so, how? Dunno. > > 2... Is DRiVER in a new version now? I still have version 1. How can I > upgrade? Still on version 1.0, but there's an new loader v1.1 on the Driver Extras disk for auto-installation of applications etc. > > 3... Are there any applications that actually use DRiVER??? Only on the program and Extras disks. At the moment ;-) > > Well, okay, that's three... > > Will Easson > Steve. \\/// (o o) +----------------ooO-(_)-Ooo----------------+ | Steve Taylor sct1000@cam.ac.uk | | Pembroke College | | Cambridge CB2 1RF | | http://nikita.pem.cam.ac.uk/sct1000 | +-------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 08:44:01 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:42:03 +0100 X400-Originator: 9264201e@udcf.glasgow.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<5704.199502170836@lenzie.cent.g] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: A Coupla ... From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Message-Id: <5704.199502170836@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1170 Lines: 41 ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 23:22 GMT 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 22:57:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... In-Reply-To: <911.199502161641@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Length: 889 X-Lines: 35 On Thu, 16 Feb 1995, William Easson wrote: > I have a couple of questions... > > 1... Can I get this mailing list in "DIGEST" format, and if so, how? Dunno. > > 2... Is DRiVER in a new version now? I still have version 1. How can I > upgrade? Still on version 1.0, but there's an new loader v1.1 on the Driver Extras disk for auto-installation of applications etc. > > 3... Are there any applications that actually use DRiVER??? Only on the program and Extras disks. At the moment ;-) Thanks for a civil answer! Will Easson From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 08:44:23 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:42:08 +0100 X400-Originator: 9264201e@udcf.glasgow.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<6441.199502170841@lenzie.cent.g] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: RE: A Coupla ... From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Message-Id: <6441.199502170841@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: A Coupla Questions... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1231 Lines: 42 ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 16 19:17 GMT 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: A Coupla Questions... Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 17:36:00 PST Message-ID: <2F440D85@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 12 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Type: text Content-Length: 309 X-Lines: 12 > I have a couple of questions... > > 1... Can I get this mailing list in "DIGEST" format, and if so, how? We have had this question before and the answer remains the same. No. Unless somebody is prepared to do it.... Besides, if you're not willing to participate, why the hell are you on it? Dan Doore. How the hell am I supposed to know whether the question has been asked before? Besides, just because I want fewer messages in my mailbox doesn't mean that I don't want to participate. I also subscribe to a couple of veterinary mailinglists, too; the volume of mail I got from one of them before I got it in digest format was just stupidly huge. If I can participate, then I will... Will Easson From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 10:16:59 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: A Coupla Questions... Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 09:08:00 PST Message-Id: <2F44E5D8@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 34 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1015 Lines: 34 > How the hell am I supposed to know whether the question has been asked before? Sorry if my reply was construed as being pissy, it wasn't meant to be. > Besides, just because I want fewer messages in my mailbox doesn't mean that I > don't want to participate. I also subscribe to a couple of veterinary > mailinglists, too; the volume of mail I got from one of them before I got it > in digest format was just stupidly huge. If I can participate, then I will... Superb, that's what is needed on this list. As someone pointed out last month or so (not that you'd know of course) ;) only about 20% of the subscribers to this list contribute in any way (this figure fluctuates I would imagine) and this breaks my heart. As for the digest format, this depends on: a) if Arnt is prepared to do it b) if the Majordomo software can support it Come to think of it, all you pods with dial in access would probably appreciate a daily/ weekly digest. Hmmm.... Dan Doore. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 10:25:36 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:24:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Johnathan Taylor" at Feb 15, 95 03:38:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1927 Lines: 43 > On (14 Feb 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote... > BTW that ASIC reset 8MHz clock loss bug also affects the 6MHz CPU clock and > causes some bits to lose their memory during a hard-reset. I think many > inconsistancies in the SAM could be fixed by simply stealing some of the 24MHz > master clock and hard dividing it externaly and usin that to replace the > 6/8MHz clock signals. Also could use a 12MHz output for when I can get hold > of that Z84C50 CPU;-) *grins* I think that the clocks aren't restored until the RESET line has gone high again!!! At least, that's as much as I can figure out from the fact that if you reset the sound chip --on reset-- as soon as the processor gets around to it, then the chip nine times out of ten ignores it and doesn't stop making that awful sound... > s> Yeah, but could it be the IORQ & M1 both going low at the start of the > s> interrupt that causes the problems? Could the ASIC be receiving spurious > s> IO read/writes? > > It shouldn't as that's the standard z80/8080 interupt acknowledge cycle, in > ALL modes, Bruce MUST've known that for years before the ASIC was designed and > as the ASIC is the only current source for interupts to the z80 it shouldn't > be looking for any I/O whilst it's interupting the z80... Anyway I'd expect > that IORQ would have to be qualified by a corisponding RD or WR signal prior > to initiating ASIC port decoding... Though only Bruce would have such insider > details:-( > > You could test the theory by using an active M1 to disqualify the active IORQ > to the ASIC. I don't think it'd make any difference. Yeah, I was thinking of doing that test... we've now found the cause of a few bugs in the MultiROM and the HD interface though :) > Oh thanks for explaining to imc about zilog peripherals and RETI, saves my > typin:-) No problemo > Regards > Johnathan. Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 10:26:19 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: Mails to sam-users Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 09:47:00 PST Message-Id: <2F44E6C9@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 19 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 474 Lines: 19 > GGGG RRRR AAA H H AAA M M > G R R A A H H A A MM MM > G GGG RRRR AAAAA HHHHH AAAAA M M M > G G R R A A H H A A M M > GGG R R A A H H A A M M > > GGGG OOO RRRR IIIII N N GGGG > G O O R R I NN N G > G GGG O O RRRR I N N N G GGG > G G O O R R I N NN G G > GGG OOO R R IIIII N N GGG > > Okay, Dan? ;) Ah, so *thats* who wrote this mail! Cheeky git ;) Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 10:28:10 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Expansion? (was Re:Childline) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:26:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9502161518.AA09722@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> from "Lord Blackadder" at Feb 16, 95 03:18:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 685 Lines: 23 > > To tell the truth, I don't like the Kaleidoscope either, but that's just > > because it's a complete pile of.... > > > > Never mind... > > > > Simon > > You still have my Kaleidoscope, Simon. When can I have it back? > > Then again I still have you technical manual. > > On third's thought (?!) do I actually want the Kaleidoscope back. I know what... I'll do you two favours. You keep the technical manual, I'll keep the Kaleidoscope :) :) :) I've got a new manual now and I'm writing my own one anyway -- I don't really need the old one I had now.. Thanks tho' :) If you want the Kaleidsoscope back, I can send it to you in the post... Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 10:49:35 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Will we see... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:48:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <2F43CA6A@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 16, 95 01:35:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 341 Lines: 13 > > > Uh... Quazar, the MultiROM, the RYAN (I think). > > ^^^^^^^^ > > The what??? > > The RYAN GIGGS (English Footballer) AKA I Gigabyte upgrade. > > Boom Boom And that's one courtesy of the Entropy Monicker Dept. and general Entropy rabble rouser and secretary, Maria Rookyard! Yay! Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 10:49:40 1995 Message-Id: From: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:46:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <2F44E5D8@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 17, 95 09:08:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 666 Lines: 24 > Superb, that's what is needed on this list. As someone pointed out last > month or so > (not that you'd know of course) ;) only about 20% of the subscribers to this > list > contribute in any way (this figure fluctuates I would imagine) and this > breaks > my heart. Yeah... mine too :) > As for the digest format, this depends on: > > a) if Arnt is prepared to do it > b) if the Majordomo software can support it > > Come to think of it, all you pods with dial in access would probably > appreciate a daily/ > weekly digest. Okay okay.. having not seen a digest form of a mailing list before, what form does one take? Simon From imc Fri Feb 17 11:02:41 1995 Subject: Re: More on robotics... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 11:02:41 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Gene Fender" at Feb 16, 95 4:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 903 Lines: 19 On Thu, 16 Feb 1995 16:36:42 -0500, Gene Fender said: > Has anyone modified a SAM to output NTSC? > Perhaps (as I might have mentioned earlier) it > is as simple as replacing the modulator, but I > don't know. The simple answer is "probably not". In fact I don't think the modulator makes that much difference since the composite video (in PAL format) is created by the MC13077P chip. The modulator is only there to add the correct carrier frequencies (which are different in the US as (a) the US uses TV transmissions in the VHF band while the UK uses UHF, and (b) the difference between the picture carrier and the sound carrier is slightly different). On the other hand, if you get a PAL TV then it doesn't matter much, but you may need to use the SCART output since the TV might not be capable of receiving UHF transmissions (unless you import it from the UK, that is). imc From imc Fri Feb 17 11:05:27 1995 Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 11:05:27 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Steve Taylor" at Feb 16, 95 10:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 443 Lines: 13 On Thu, 16 Feb 1995 22:57:18 +0000 (GMT), Steve Taylor said: > > 3... Are there any applications that actually use DRiVER??? > Only on the program and Extras disks. > At the moment ;-) My brother has been writing a mines program, but (unfortunately) we persuaded him to write a standalone version... It looks pretty good though. It's possible that he could be induced to write a Driver version at the right price... :-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 11:29:00 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 12:16:09 MET From: Milan Salajka Subject: Re: More on robotics... To: sam-users In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:02:41 +0100 from Message-Id: <"alfie.uib..097:17.01.95.11.24.59"@uib.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 454 Lines: 12 > The simple answer is "probably not". In fact I don't think the modulator > makes that much difference since the composite video (in PAL format) is > created by the MC13077P chip. The modulator is only there to add the MC13077P could work in PAL or NTSC mode. There is a special pin, and it depends, if this pin is connected to LOG 0 or LOG 1. But i don't know, if is possible to change it in Sam and if it works... > [deleted] Milan From imc Fri Feb 17 11:52:00 1995 Subject: Re: More on robotics... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 11:52:00 GMT In-Reply-To: <"alfie.uib..097:17.01.95.11.24.59"@uib.no>; from "Milan Salajka" at Feb 17, 95 12:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 431 Lines: 11 On Fri, 17 Feb 95 12:16:09 MET, Milan Salajka said: > MC13077P could work in PAL or NTSC mode. There is a special pin, and it > depends, if this pin is connected to LOG 0 or LOG 1. Drat. Of course it does. And me with the data sheet of that particular IC as well... The picture will still contain 50 frames of 312 lines per second though, so it depends quite a lot on the TV whether it will accept the signal. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 13:35:41 1995 From: Mr Andrew M Gale Message-Id: <9502171305.AA28889@central.surrey.ac.uk> Subject: Re: More on robotics... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 13:05:35 GMT In-Reply-To: <9502171152.AA11527@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk>; from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Feb 17, 95 12:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 429 Lines: 12 I doubt an NTSC tv could display a PAL picture adequately... some PAL tvs will show an NTSC picture - the line freq. is the same (I think)- it's just the vertical frequency that matters. A Pal tv showing NTSC just stops after line 262 and jumps back to the top of the screen, but an NTSC tv showing PAL would have hassles - the PAL signal has 312 line so the tv would run out of vertical space after line 262. -AG From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 14:29:55 1995 From: gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Message-Id: >From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:00:31 +0000 In-Reply-To: Ian.Collier -- "Re: A Coupla Questions..." (Feb 17, 12:05pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 947 Lines: 25 On Feb 17, 12:05pm in "Re: A Coupla Questions...", you warbled: ] On Thu, 16 Feb 1995 22:57:18 +0000 (GMT), Steve Taylor said: ] > > 3... Are there any applications that actually use DRiVER??? ] > Only on the program and Extras disks. ] ] > At the moment ;-) ] ] My brother has been writing a mines program, but (unfortunately) we ] persuaded him to write a standalone version... ] ] It looks pretty good though. It's possible that he could be induced to ] write a Driver version at the right price... :-) Well I have the C source for my Minesweeper written for the orbit (crap operating system that runs on a PC and looks like a cross between Plan9 and X-windows) which could probably be easily ported _if and when_ a C compiler arrives. If not, how easy would it be (ideas?) to get a C2Driver converter to help converting C to steve's own nifty little language? As to how good it looks... it's nifty! :) Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 16:16:22 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:52:44 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Really big favor... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 535 Lines: 14 In order to save long distance tolls (and to keep me frugal), could someone contact West Coast computers to find out if they can sell a Sam Elite to a US customer? If they (or the owner) have an e-mail address, that would suffice. Also, are there any differences between the Coupe and the Elite other than the drive(s) and memory? Is there any reason that an original Coupe is better? Which keyboard is better? I've never even seen either unit - something really needed on the web page. Can someone send me a pic? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 17:19:04 1995 From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Subject: Re: Really big favor... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 16:50:08 +0000 (WET) In-Reply-To: from "Gene Fender" at Feb 17, 95 10:52:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502171650.aa29454@valar.ee.surrey.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 428 Lines: 10 What does the same look like? From the side it's supposed to look like a car, hence the name Coupe. It's got a nice groove along the front of the keyboard where you lay your hands which slowly tries to slash your wrists.... As for the elite - if you peel the labels off then you'll see SAM Coupe underneath.... peel the other and you'll see MGT. So, apart from the drive and the printer port it's basically a Coupe. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 17:56:49 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <9020.9502171727@whirligig.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Really big favor... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 17:27:25 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9502171650.aa29454@valar.ee.surrey.ac.uk> from "ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk" at Feb 17, 95 04:50:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 239 Lines: 9 If anyone has any decent pictures of the Sam, then send them to me, and I'll bung them up on my Web Pages. Tim -- Tim Paveley - University of Southampton Sam Coupe Web Pages: http://whig.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93/Coupe/home.html From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Feb 17 19:04:10 1995 From: stefan.drissen@tic.iaf.nl Original-Received: by tic.iaf.nl id 0RBWN006 Fri, 17 Feb 95 19:27:17 -0600 Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Message-Id: <9502171927.0RBWN00@tic.iaf.nl> Organization: Internet Connection BBS X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.11 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 19:27:17 -0600 Subject: cool programming To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 151 Lines: 8 Hi Graham, how about putting stuff on fred which doesn't look like it was directly ripped from speccy basic????? end of pointless message From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 18 08:32:50 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 18 Feb 95 02:51:33 +0000 Subject: A Coupla Questions... Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1017 Lines: 33 On (16 Feb 95) D.J.Doore@lmu.ac.uk wrote to All... D> From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" D> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 17:36:00 PST > I have a couple of questions... > > 1... Can I get this mailing list in "DIGEST" format, and if so, how? D> We have had this question before and the answer remains the same. D> No. D> Unless somebody is prepared to do it.... D> Besides, if you're not willing to participate, why the hell are you on it? I can see some reasons, to keep a finger on the pulse of the most active group of sam enthusiasts and learn from the various experts on the many facets of sam computing... and on the off-chance that they have somthing to add they can without impeding the general flow of ideas and developments:-) D> Dan Doore. Regards Johnathan. ... The clash of ideas is the sound of freedom. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 18 08:32:50 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 18 Feb 95 03:31:20 +0000 Subject: SAM Power consumption... Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1119 Lines: 32 On (16 Feb 95) cm3hdlt@bs47c.staffs.ac.u wrote to All... > From: Lord Blackadder > Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 15:33:35 +0000 (GMT) >> Just a thought but with an 8bit 8channel ADC chip on a I/O pcb with >> normal >> digital I/O ports too it would be possible to have respectable speech >> recognition and therfore control of a SAM controlled robot! Using Machine >> code >> quite amazing things *should* be possible! >> Johnathan. > Lets have it in kit form then. I miss the days when Multimedia was about > controling household items. A little robot to do the washing up and hover > my room would be great :) > Lord B' With all that stuff on the floor, it'd take several supercomputers to negotiate it's way around that lot;-) Multimedia? I thought the sam was multimedia anyway ie it uses both Tapes and Floppies as storage media;-) ... Forget the Joneses....I can't keep up with The Simpsons -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 18 08:32:51 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 18 Feb 95 02:33:32 +0000 Subject: A Coupla Questions... Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1066 Lines: 31 On (17 Feb 95) gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk wrote to All... > From: gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:00:31 +0000 > Well I have the C source for my Minesweeper written for the orbit (crap > operating system that runs on a PC and looks like a cross between Plan9 and > X-windows) which could probably be easily ported _if and when_ a C compiler > arrives. How much memory resources does it need? What other facilities does it require in the way of graphics support libraries as under ProDos we have the freeware Hi-Tech C compiler which is more ANSI C compliant than any Small C port could ever be! > If not, how easy would it be (ideas?) to get a C2Driver converter > to help converting C to steve's own nifty little language? > As to how good it looks... it's nifty! :) > Geoff ... I'd like to change the world, but they won't give me the source code. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 18 08:33:32 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 18 Feb 95 02:14:35 +0000 Subject: More on robotics... Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1437 Lines: 36 On (17 Feb 95) ee31ag@surrey.ac.uk wrote to All... e> From: Mr Andrew M Gale e> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 13:05:35 GMT e> I doubt an NTSC tv could display a PAL picture e> adequately... some PAL tvs will show an NTSC e> picture - the line freq. is the same (I think)- e> it's just the vertical frequency that matters. e> A Pal tv showing NTSC just stops after line e> 262 and jumps back to the top of the screen, but e> an NTSC tv showing PAL would have hassles - the e> PAL signal has 312 line so the tv would run out e> of vertical space after line 262. That's not quite the case, assuming the NTSC set could lock to the 50Hz vertical sync then it would simply try to squeeze 312 lines of video onto 262 "lines" of phosphor and not over-scan the bottom of the screen. You are correct the line frequency is the same so the EHT on the NTSC set will still be generated correctly:-) Actually I think you'll find that the vertical raster heigth of a NTSC set would be reduced as the coils are wound for 60Hz and would be less efficient at 50Hz! That's based on the fact that ANY transformer of a given VA rating will allways be physically smaller if wound for 60Hz supply than if it's wound for a 50Hz supply:-) Johnathan. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 18 08:33:33 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 18 Feb 95 03:05:48 +0000 Subject: SAM Power consumption... Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1733 Lines: 43 On (16 Feb 95) ee31ag@mcs.surrey.ac.uk wrote to All... e> From: ee31ag@mcs.surrey.ac.uk e> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 16:19:44 +0000 (GMT) > As for robotics control or smart robots etc the SAM motherboard is near > ideal! > To run it only requires the +5Volt supply and an I/O pcb could be > designed that > fits into the second drive plug and programs loaded via the MIDI/NET or > TAPE. e> If you're going to go to that much trouble then I'd have thought e> that you may as well blow your own EPROM, or build your own z80 SBC e> and use the SAM as a development tool... and download your assembly e> code into EEPROM or something. Then you'd end up with a robot with less functionality and RAM etc! The beauty of using the SAM motherboard is that it IS a z80 SBC with everything apart from I/O ports, which can be added cheaply! Plus no need for expensive thru-plated pcb manufacturing equipment or EPROM blowers etc... You *can* develop the software on the SAM with Disks attached to use assemblers etc and then SAVE loaders and code to tape, remove the motherboard, add the I/O pcb bolt it onto the robot attach keyboard power up with tape deck plugged into the sam and just type LOAD "" to load the developed program in, remove keyboard, and tape lead and away it goes! When you've finished put the motherboard back in the sam case with discs etc and dial-up your internet account and get your daily fix of sam-users all on the same machine:-) e> -Andrew Gale Johnathan. ... Xerox never comes up with anything original. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 18 08:37:34 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 18 Feb 95 03:48:01 +0000 Subject: Another giant leap... ermmm... sideways Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1849 Lines: 42 On (17 Feb 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote to All... s> From: Simon Cooke s> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:24:28 +0000 (GMT) s> I think that the clocks aren't restored until the RESET line has gone s> high again!!! At least, that's as much as I can figure out from the fact s> that if you reset the sound chip --on reset-- as soon as the processor s> gets around to it, then the chip nine times out of ten ignores it and s> doesn't stop making that awful sound... How about a NE555 set in MonoStable mode and it's output fed to a 1 transistor inverter and fed to the ASIC ONLY and set the low-pulse width to just enough to reliably reset the ASIC but substantially shorter than the main /RESET line that goes to the z80-CPU, FDC and UART chips. That way the support chips will get their clocks etc before /RESET goes inactive:-) That could fix ALL FDC chips, internal or external unlike the patch chip that just fixes the internal drives;-) s> Yeah, I was thinking of doing that test... we've now found the cause of a s> few bugs in the MultiROM and the HD interface though :) I saw you mention somthing about decoding M1 in another post.... I suspect you/martin were using /IORQ with address decoding which IM2 interupts in conjuction with a floating address bus would trigger false I/O decodes? Normaly you should use /RD and or /WR to qualify the potentialy decoded address, AFAIK that's how the ASIC does it as do most other devices:-) Though using M1 I suppose you can get a decoded I/O address using less gates though:-) Johnathan. ... In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 18 08:37:50 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 18 Feb 95 01:30:51 +0000 Subject: A Coupla Questions... Message-Id: Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2648 Lines: 66 On (17 Feb 95) D.J.Doore@lmu.ac.uk wrote to All... D> From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" D> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 09:08:00 PST > How the hell am I supposed to know whether the question has been asked > before? D> Sorry if my reply was construed as being pissy, it wasn't meant to be. > Besides, just because I want fewer messages in my mailbox doesn't mean > that I don't want to participate. I also subscribe to a couple of veterinary > mailinglists, too; the volume of mail I got from one of them before I got > it in digest format was just stupidly huge. If I can participate, then I > will... D> Superb, that's what is needed on this list. As someone pointed out last D> month or so D> (not that you'd know of course) ;) only about 20% of the subscribers to D> this list D> contribute in any way (this figure fluctuates I would imagine) and this D> breaks my heart. I'm quite happy that there are more readers than contributors, if there were too many posters then we wouldn't be able to sift the entire days trafic due to all the potential noise that would be created, heck at times the noise level is almost unbearable as it is! D> As for the digest format, this depends on: D> a) if Arnt is prepared to do it D> b) if the Majordomo software can support it Or setting up a new userAKA name for the lists you subscribe to and logging in using that AKA and your main FQDN won't be touched by the list traffic! I do somthing similar here where I'm subscribed as SAM-LIST@phoenix.centron.com and actually post to the list as jet@centron.com . The list gets sent to the gateway software on my uplink that creates a message area called SAM-LIST from which I get my messages, NONE of sam-users traffic cloggs up my personal email-box! D> Come to think of it, all you pods with dial in access would probably D> appreciate a daily/weekly digest. In effect I get a daily digest already that's why there's always a time-lag before I respond to postings, but then again I'm not a pod, it's all automated Fidonet Technology mail sessions:-) Regards Johnathan. PS I presume the stuff below added by my uplink makes it through your mailer and is adequate? Oh, not wishing to teach you stuff you already know, but there might be some config settings on your reader software, that was missed at installation, that should allow you to read all that header info to your hearts content:-) -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 18 08:38:55 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 17 Feb 95 03:54:53 +0000 Subject: Please... Message-Id: <97b_9502171652@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 527 Lines: 21 On (15 Feb 95) Briansam@bgserv.demon.co. wrote to All... > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 18:48:09 GMT > From: "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." > Lets have lewss drugs please... Thank you... > Brian > -- > Brian Gaff Sam Dept. Here here, I second that request:-) ... Practice random acts of kindness and senseless acts of beauty RD 9/92 -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 18 08:38:57 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 17 Feb 95 03:08:16 +0000 Subject: Will we see... Message-Id: <97a_9502171652@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2772 Lines: 65 On (16 Feb 95) simonc@jumper.mcc.ac.uk wrote in response to Brian Gaff... s> From: Simon Cooke s> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 09:56:56 +0000 (GMT) BG> So, how about some status reports. What we seem to have is 1001 BG> unfinished projects. BG> Hard drive? s> Version 0.3 of the pcb was routed today -- we've found that a lot of bugs s> on our interfaces were due to not decoding the M1 line, which we've s> sorted out now. We're still building up version 0.2 of the pcb on the s> bench, and 0.1 is sitting there quite happily, having proved that it s> works (we have read and written sectors to the hard-drive). Oi! Si' I thought you were shelving the home-brew design in favor of the compact daughter board that'll be an upgrade daughter-board to the multi-rom pcb? It's now a built prototype awaiting time for it to be tested! Can I count on your serious interest in the generic design or not? BG> Pro-Dos Comms? s> <> Give me chance Si! I get the days postings in the evening! my dial-up uplink is a BBS not a direct feed server... Total capabilities of ProDos COMMS... BulldogBBS3.1 A non-networked BBS with local messaging areas, file areas and X & Zmodem protocols with ring-back feature to allow sharing the phone line with a voice line. passwords, security levels, remote co-sysop manatanance utils, chat facilities etc etc. ZMP15g X,Y,Zmodem ascii capture/send works with modems upto 14.4k QTERM43f scripted terminal Xmodem,Xmodem7,Ymodem & kermit ascii capture/send vt100 emulation and split-screen chat modes UUCP21b Sam machine specific patches written and installed but not used as a mailer due to lack of disk storage capacity can route mail etc with a network of dial-up sam UUCP setups or be a bonafide UUCP site.... BG> Native Comms? BG> New comms interface? s> Not my problem really :) I thought that was Bob's domain... Not my problem either, we've got the best UART for the sam... it's that stupid parallel port wasting 2 I/O addresses each that's in the way! If it was redesigned to only use 1 R/W 8bit allocation I could design a new interface that uses the free'd up address to read/write DTR,DSR,CD etc.. BUT that will NOT happen as it'd break any and all BADLY written native mode stuff that PRINT to the CENTRONICS port directly instead of via the OS #3 stream.... BG> What else? s> Uh... Quazar, the MultiROM, the RYAN (I think). Don't forget the SAM itself, that's an unfinished project too;-) Johnathan. ... I like to skate on the other side of the ice. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Feb 18 10:09:21 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: A Coupla Questions... Date: Sat, 18 Feb 95 09:53:00 PST Message-Id: <2F4632CE@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 28 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 824 Lines: 28 > PS I presume the stuff below added by my uplink makes it through your mailer > and is adequate? Superb, thanks. > Oh, not wishing to teach you stuff you already know, but there might be some > config settings on your reader software, that was missed at installation, > that > should allow you to read all that header info to your hearts content:-) Not according to Microsoft anyway, all the documentation on the INI files has nothing and the mail admin dude doesn't know (he uses Pine anyway). I can read the headers in the DOS version, but that's shite and besides all our other stuff that works with mail runs under Windows. Dan. > |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 > |Internet: jet@centron.com > | > | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. > > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Feb 19 20:38:29 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 21:41:23 +0100 X400-Originator: goringgn%sun.aston.ac.uk@aston.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<15230.9502192041@sun.aston.ac.u] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Re: cool prog... From: goringgn Message-Id: <15230.9502192041@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: cool programming Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 283 Lines: 13 >Hi Graham, > >how about putting stuff on fred which doesn't look like it was directly ripped >from speccy basic????? > >end of pointless message Hey! I don't write FRED! And I'll stop writing crap when you can fit your head through a standard door frame. :) Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 09:47:41 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502200945.AA13210@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 10:45:08 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <2F4632CE@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 18, 95 09:53:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 654 Lines: 14 > Not according to Microsoft anyway, all the documentation on the INI files > has nothing and the mail admin dude doesn't know (he uses Pine anyway). > > I can read the headers in the DOS version, but that's shite and besides all > our other stuff that works with mail runs under Windows. Whats wrong with pine? -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 10:57:30 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 10:48:00 PST Message-Id: <2F48E2B2@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 13 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 426 Lines: 13 > Whats wrong with pine? Nothing, that's just what he uses. Dan. > ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ > | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | > | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | > | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | > | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 11:51:51 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502201148.AA14717@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Really big favor... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 12:48:27 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9020.9502171727@whirligig.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from "Tim Paveley" at Feb 17, 95 05:27:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 503 Lines: 12 > > If anyone has any decent pictures of the Sam, then send them to me, and I'll > bung them up on my Web Pages. > What about taking a look at the ftp-archive? :) -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 12:12:54 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502201151.AA14810@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 12:51:37 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <2F48E2B2@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 20, 95 10:48:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 453 Lines: 15 > > > > Whats wrong with pine? > > Nothing, that's just what he uses. > So....why don't you use it too? :) -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 12:31:09 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <21168.9502201211@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Really big favor... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 12:11:17 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199502201148.AA14717@lyr.hiMolde.no> from "Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no" at Feb 20, 95 12:48:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 706 Lines: 20 To Quote Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no : > > If anyone has any decent pictures of the Sam, then send them to me, and I'll > > bung them up on my Web Pages. > What about taking a look at the ftp-archive? :) > Been there, seen them :) Actually, I did have them, but they disappeared when I altered the look of the place. I guess I'll probably dig them out again. However, a couple more shots of the actually sam itself would be nice, sine the one that was there I seem to recall was the one from the box, and you don't actually see the Sam Itself that much in it... Tim -- Tim Paveley - University of Southampton Sam Coupe Web Pages: http://whig.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93/Coupe/home.html From imc Mon Feb 20 12:36:02 1995 Subject: Re: Really big favor... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 12:36:02 GMT In-Reply-To: <21168.9502201211@picasso.ecs.soton.ac.uk>; from "Tim Paveley" at Feb 20, 95 12:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 352 Lines: 7 The only solution would be for someone to go out there with a camera and take a picture of it. I don't suppose many people thought of doing that (before this discussion, I mean) because it's not exactly the most interesting thing to do. Taking a photo of your computer would instantly qualify you as an "anorak", I would have thought... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 12:53:24 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 12:50:14 GMT Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <82BD1D88@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 142 Lines: 5 Theres absolutely nothiong wrong with pine.... it must be the only system with understandable commands on a UNIX system... :) DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 12:53:52 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 12:47:00 PST Message-Id: <2F48FEFC@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 21 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 727 Lines: 21 > > Nothing, that's just what he uses. > > > So....why don't you use it too? :) No can do, I'm not allowed access to the internet server (jaffle), besides it would involve my address changing, plus I couldn't use the workgroup apps. that I have to use everyday and it is therefore throughly impractical. Apart from that it wouldn't mind :) Dan Doore. > -- > ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ > | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | > | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | > | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | > | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 13:03:55 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Sam Piccys... Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 12:56:00 PST Message-Id: <2F49009B@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 13 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 272 Lines: 13 >Taking a photo of your computer would instantly > qualify you as an "anorak", I would have thought... I have two, both digitised, one by Mr Mike AJ and the other by our very own Mr Cooke & Mr Rookyard. Furry-hooded Parka anyone? ;) Dan Doore. > imc > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 14:15:32 1995 From: goringgn Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 13:28:50 GMT Message-Id: <24066.9502201328@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam Piccys... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 861 Lines: 28 > >Taking a photo of your computer would instantly > > qualify you as an "anorak", I would have thought... > > I have two, both digitised, one by Mr Mike AJ and the other by > our very own Mr Cooke & Mr Rookyard. > > Furry-hooded Parka anyone? ;) > > Dan Doore. > > > imc > > > Yes please, I lost mine a few years ago. But I think the anorak sting could be removed by simply taking a piccy of your SAM in a exotic location, such pictures as: SAM and the great pyramids. SAM in deepest jungle. SAM skiing in greenland. could easily be created in a few minutes, with a simple art package, or a return ticket to any of the above destinations. In fact, tonight I'll draw a nice picture of SAM in an exotic place, and I'll send it to Tim in the morning! Graham http://www.aston.ac.uk/~goringgn - Home of the easy surgery guide. From imc Mon Feb 20 14:29:40 1995 Subject: Re: Sam Piccys... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 14:29:40 GMT In-Reply-To: <24066.9502201328@sun.aston.ac.uk>; from "goringgn" at Feb 20, 95 1:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 425 Lines: 11 On Mon, 20 Feb 1995 13:28:50 GMT, goringgn said: > Yes please, I lost mine a few years ago. But I think the anorak > sting could be removed by simply taking a piccy of your SAM in a > exotic location, such pictures as: > SAM and the great pyramids. Sorry, but if you take your Sam on holiday to the great pyramids (or pretend that you did) then that qualifies you as a raving nutter as well as an anorak... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 15:38:32 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 10:18:06 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Phone number for Westcoast? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 322 Lines: 9 Is there one? So far my favor has gone unredeemed (see earlier post). I must contact them, but I don't want to do it by snail mail. Scream... Perhaps the owner of Westcoast is part of our buggery little group? If so, how about mailing me some $US prices for a Sam Elite. Can you even sell to a US customer? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 16:29:35 1995 From: Lord Blackadder Message-Id: <9502201614.AA10547@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk> Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 16:14:15 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <82BD1D88@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> from "David Zambonini" at Feb 20, 95 12:50:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 246 Lines: 15 > > Theres absolutely nothiong wrong with pine.... it must be the only > system with understandable commands on a UNIX system... :) > > DMZ > === > Whats wrong with elm? That's perfectly adequate for what I need. Lord B' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 17:10:12 1995 From: goringgn Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 16:00:44 GMT Message-Id: <24699.9502201600@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam Piccys... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 573 Lines: 17 > On Mon, 20 Feb 1995 13:28:50 GMT, goringgn said: > > Yes please, I lost mine a few years ago. But I think the anorak > > sting could be removed by simply taking a piccy of your SAM in a > > exotic location, such pictures as: > > SAM and the great pyramids. > > Sorry, but if you take your Sam on holiday to the great pyramids (or > pretend that you did) then that qualifies you as a raving nutter as > well as an anorak... > > imc > Ah! But if I marry it first then I won't be as I'll be doind my loyal duty as a husband to take it with me. Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 17:45:13 1995 From: stefan.drissen@tic.iaf.nl Original-Received: by tic.iaf.nl id 0PLBH002 Mon, 20 Feb 95 18:13:02 -0600 Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Message-Id: <9502201813.0PLBH00@tic.iaf.nl> Organization: Internet Connection BBS X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.11 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 18:13:02 -0600 Subject: RE: COOL PROGRAMMING To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 472 Lines: 14 Hi Graham, thanks for the compliment, I just can't help the fact that you English dudes have tiny doorframes ;). That message was supposed to be constructive criticism in a way, the games are ok I suppose. Could you just please add some colour to the otherwise rather neat looking graphics to lift them out of the speccy UDG era. Cheerio, the one and only bigheaded Solar Flare.... (can I help my stuff being excellent? ;), or should that be =|> ) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 19:00:02 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 18:33:15 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6948@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Really big favor... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 280 Lines: 9 Colin, do you wabt to ask Bob, or shall I? I am not sure about the PSU requirements in the states. Sam would certainly not pass the emission specs, I can tell you that! Not to mention PAL/NTSC, 625/525 50/60hz etc, sound spacing, et al. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 19:01:25 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 18:26:31 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6947@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAM Power consumption... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 149 Lines: 7 Hang on though, a CMOS chip has less drive too, and that is a problem on sam. Look what happens on the 2up? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 22:53:38 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 17:36:11 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Even BIGGER favor... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 279 Lines: 11 I don't suppose anyone would be interested in selling me a Sam ala gray market? That is, I pay you, you buy the Sam and ship it to me as if a "gift". Maybe taxation could be avoided this way? Am I dreaming? The Storehouse of the Arcane fender@intellimedia.com From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 23:08:06 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 17:39:22 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Palette needed... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 86 Lines: 3 Could someone send me an encoded GIF with colors which comprise the Sam palette? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 20 23:39:59 1995 From: goringgn Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 23:24:56 GMT Message-Id: <1009.9502202324@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Favours favours favours... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 589 Lines: 17 Tell you what, Gene, howsabout I cut off my left leg for for you? :) Just kiddin'. Um, instead of actually sending a palette, here is how it is generated. The colours, red green and blue can have values between 0 and 7, 0 being none, and 7 being bright. Each of the colours has an RGB set of numbers, as you'd expect, but all the number have to be either odd, or even. Ie, valid rgb combinations are : 624, 751, 026, 135, etc Invalid ones are : 136, 052, 146, etc. You shouldn't really need a palette now, as you have all the information you'll ever need... Graham From imc Tue Feb 21 12:01:01 1995 Subject: Re: Palette needed... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 12:01:01 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Gene Fender" at Feb 20, 95 5:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1022 Lines: 23 On Mon, 20 Feb 1995 17:39:22 -0500, Gene Fender said: > Could someone send me an encoded GIF > with colors which comprise the Sam palette? Here you are. And in order as well... You will need to enlarge it though. :-) begin 644 palette.gif M1TE&.#=A$``(`,8``````/__;?^V;0#:VK;_)/]M;0"1VK:V)/\D;0!(VK9M M)```VK8D)+;__[:V_VW_MK9M_VVVMK8D_R3_;6UMMB2V;6TDMB1M;20D;=K: MD=J1D9':2-I(D9&12-H`D4C:`)%(2$B1`)$`2$A(`$@``$C:VO__)$B1VO^V M)`#:D4A(VO]M)`"1D4@`VO\D)`!(D0``D?____^V_[;_MO]M_[:VMO\D_VW_ M;;9MMFVV;;8DMB3_)&UM;22V)&TD;21M)"0D)"3__R2V_]K:2"1M_]J12)': M`"0D_]I(2)&1`-H`2)%(`)$``)':VI&1VDC:D9%(VDB1D9$`V@#:2$A(D0"1 M2$@`D0!(2```2/__MO^VMK;_;?]MMK:V;?\DMFW_)+9M;6VV)+8D;6UM)&TD M)&W__VVV_R3_MFUM_R2VMMK:`&TD_R1MMMJ1`"0DMMI(`-H``-K:VMJ1VI': MD=I(VI&1D=H`VDC:2)%(D4B12)$`D0#:`$A(2`"1`$@`2`!(`"P`````$``( M```'@X``6"1^?U%`<=#H27C8X$%PT?54A>7M3'W<]%6$Y.Q-?-RP&42 >From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 11:31:06 +0000 In-Reply-To: SPX3DMZ -- "Re: A Coupla Questions..." (Feb 20, 12:50pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 492 Lines: 22 On Feb 20, 12:50pm in "Re: A Coupla Questions...", you warbled: ] Theres absolutely nothiong wrong with pine.... it must be the only ] system with understandable commands on a UNIX system... :) ] ] DMZ ] === Things wrong with pine... it uses pico as the standard editor. it has a _foul_ configuration file it's deadly slow you have to do so many keypresses just to read one message... Anyway, this isn't a pine group, so I'll stop harping on. Use mush. Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 21 12:34:19 1995 From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:29:58 +0000 (WET) In-Reply-To: from "Mars Bar" at Feb 21, 95 11:31:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502211230.aa21372@almaren.ee.surrey.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 61 Lines: 4 Pine is OK, but personally I prefer lemon-fresh. -amg From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 21 12:46:09 1995 Message-Id: <18842.199502211237@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:37:10 GMT From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1212 Lines: 46 ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 21 12:23 GMT 1995 From: gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Message-ID: >From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Mars Bar) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 11:31:06 +0000 In-Reply-To: SPX3DMZ -- "Re: A Coupla Questions..." (Feb 20, 12:50pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Coupla Questions... Sender: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Type: text Content-Length: 469 X-Lines: 22 On Feb 20, 12:50pm in "Re: A Coupla Questions...", you warbled: ] Theres absolutely nothiong wrong with pine.... it must be the only ] system with understandable commands on a UNIX system... :) ] ] DMZ ] === >Things wrong with pine... >it uses pico as the standard editor. >it has a _foul_ configuration file >it's deadly slow >you have to do so many keypresses just to read one message... >Anyway, this isn't a pine group, so I'll stop harping on. >Use mush. I take it that pine is a UNIX mailreader, and not a botanical reference. ----- End Included Message ----- From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 21 13:37:59 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 13:05:37 GMT Subject: With the smell of a genuine alpine valley.. Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <18C76852B3@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 204 Lines: 7 Of course, what with all the talk of elm and lemon fresh, what about the subtle smell of an alpine valley? You could even take your SAM there on holiday.... ;) Oh, and what about elks? DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 22 03:00:49 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 03:58:43 +0100 (MET) From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Administrivia Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 651 Lines: 12 >From now on, I will routinely ignore subscription requests from .ac.uk addresses with specific addresses, ie. "subscribe" to sam-users-request@nvg.unit.no is ok, "subscribe alternate-address" to the same address isn't. Too many clueless people want the mail to go their login name, not the nominal e-mail name (F.Lastname, often) or the long/short form of the university name, where the sender address is the other one, then don't manage to unsubscribe, and I have to do it by hand. Insisting on a different, equivalent, address, is meaningless and unproductive, and I'm fed up as of two minutes ago. --Arnt (in no good mood, sorry) From imc Wed Feb 22 10:55:40 1995 Subject: Re: Administrivia To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 10:55:40 GMT In-Reply-To: ; from "Arnt Gulbrandsen" at Feb 22, 95 3:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 287 Lines: 8 On Wed, 22 Feb 1995 03:58:43 +0100 (MET), Arnt Gulbrandsen said: > From now on, I will routinely ignore subscription requests from .ac.uk > addresses with specific addresses Um... forgive me for wondering, but we are already subscribed so what does it matter to us? ;-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 22 11:26:16 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:18:10 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502221118.AA03894@bot33.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Looking for a... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502221118.AA03894@bot33.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Looking for a backward BASIC conversion Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 884 Lines: 25 Quite a while ago I used the BASIC converter (given free with SamDos) to convert Football Manager over to SAM-BASIC! It didn't work! Bummer eh? What I know have is a tape of F-Manager which doesn't work (bad tape-deck) and a copy on disk in SAM format! My question???? Is there anyway to transfer from said format back to a Speccy-48k type which could be loaded into one of the multitude of emulators (of which I have a few(oh and my favourite is Emutility! Very nice! :) B) and run from there???? Can anyone help me or should I insert a straw up a frogs backside and exhale? Yours Chewing Chocolate, /> ( //---------------------------------------------------\ (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ \> From imc Wed Feb 22 11:41:06 1995 Subject: Re: Looking for a backward BASIC conversion To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 11:41:06 GMT In-Reply-To: <9502221118.AA03894@bot33.causeway.qub.ac.uk>; from "Creature Feature! *PHART*" at Feb 22, 95 5:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 436 Lines: 9 On Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:18:10 +0100, Creature Feature! *PHART* said: > Is there anyway to transfer from said format back to a Speccy-48k type which > could be loaded into one of the multitude of emulators If you happened to have a +3 (optionally with a MIDI lead that's configured for input as well as output), then I could give you a program to load SAM format programs on the +3. But as you don't, you are stuffed.... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 22 12:09:48 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:02:25 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502221202.AA04214@bot33.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: No speccy From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502221202.AA04214@bot33.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: No speccy Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 60 Lines: 3 Haven't got a speccy at all! so +3 would be a problem! From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 22 13:51:35 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 13:19:19 GMT Subject: Re: No speccy Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <3105424454@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 253 Lines: 10 >Haven't got a speccy at all! > >so +3 would be a problem! For a nominal fee, I'm sure I can rustle up a +3 from somewhere... I just happen to know someone that owns over 30 spectrums of various desciptions (16Ks to QLs...)... :) DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 22 14:01:33 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: Looking for a backward BASIC conversion Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 13:29:00 PST Message-Id: <2F4BAB9D@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 42 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1289 Lines: 42 > Quite a while ago I used the BASIC converter (given free with SamDos) to > convert > Football Manager over to SAM-BASIC! It didn't work! Bummer eh? Not suprising really as it 'lost' any variables saved with the program (this is probably why FM doesn't work - it's certainly why most of my programs wouldn't work!) > What I know have is a tape of F-Manager which doesn't work (bad tape-deck) > and a copy on disk in SAM format! If the copy is what you just said (i.e. the basic file) then you are probably buggered, so to speak. > My question???? > > Is there anyway to transfer from said format back to a Speccy-48k type which > could be loaded into one of the multitude of emulators (of which I have a > few(oh and my favourite is Emutility! Very nice! :) B) and run from there???? DMZ is working on a Z80/SNA/EMU converter still (I presume Oi Dave! any chance of the latest copy?) and wonder if it will be able to do this, it certainly would be the bollocks if it convert 48K Snap files to just about anything *except* snap files :) > Can anyone help me or should I insert a straw up a frogs backside and exhale? Take a guess ;) > Yours Chewing Chocolate, Yours hot, pink and sweaty (Badminton in lunch break) Dan Doore. From imc Wed Feb 22 14:24:29 1995 Subject: Re: Looking for a backward BASIC conversion To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 14:24:29 GMT In-Reply-To: <9502221118.AA03894@bot33.causeway.qub.ac.uk>; from "Creature Feature! *PHART*" at Feb 22, 95 5:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 210 Lines: 8 On Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:26:16 GMT, Creature Feature! *PHART* said: >Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:18:10 +0100 Why? This sort of thing confuses elm. Could someone set their clock to the right time? imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 22 14:30:23 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 19:57:28 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502221357.AA05257@bot33.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: RE: No speccy From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502221357.AA05257@bot33.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: No speccy Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1268 Lines: 22 Well if you could rustle up a spec + or something for next to nothing, that would be nice! :) I could buy a messenger then and....... What am I saying! NA! I bought a SAM cause I wanted a SAM! Not cause I wanted a SPECCY! YIPPEE! I'm saved! (Or is that mad???:) ================================================================================ ======== ======== ====== /> ====== ===== ( //---------------------------------------------------\ ===== ===== (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ===== ===== ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ ===== ====== \> ====== ======== ======== ================================================================================ ====================* Ronan FitzGerald: u9350276@qub.ac.uk *==================== =============================* Tel: (01232) 668261 *============================ ================================================================================ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 22 14:52:18 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Psycho .sig from Hell Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 14:42:00 PST Message-Id: <2F4BBC97@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 12 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 249 Lines: 12 [Lots Deleted] > ===== (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> [Even more deleted] Arrgggh! It's the .sig from hell! Calm it down eh? I shouldn't have to use my scroll bars to read a .sig :) Dan Doore. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 22 15:27:14 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 21:10:59 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502221511.AA05707@bot33.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: RE: Psycho .s... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502221511.AA05707@bot33.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: Psycho .sig from Hell Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1163 Lines: 22 I like it! You don't need to read the sig anyway! You'll know who its from when you read it anyway! Just look out for the amount of exclamation marks! :) adios! ================================================================================ ======== ======== ====== /> ====== ===== ( //---------------------------------------------------\ ===== ===== (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ===== ===== ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ ===== ====== \> ====== ======== ======== ================================================================================ ====================* Ronan FitzGerald: u9350276@qub.ac.uk *==================== =============================* Tel: (01232) 668261 *============================ ================================================================================ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 22 15:55:29 1995 Message-Id: <6719.199502221429@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 14:29:35 GMT From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: No speccy X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 881 Lines: 35 ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Feb 22 14:14 GMT 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 13:19:19 GMT Subject: Re: No speccy Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <3105424454@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Sender: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Type: text Content-Length: 242 X-Lines: 10 >Haven't got a speccy at all! > >so +3 would be a problem! For a nominal fee, I'm sure I can rustle up a +3 from somewhere... I just happen to know someone that owns over 30 spectrums of various desciptions (16Ks to QLs...)... :) DMZ === ----- End Included Message ----- His name wouldn't happen to be "Clive" now, would it? :-) (Speaking of "Uncle" He's selling PCs now isn't he?) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 23 12:22:55 1995 From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Subject: motorola To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:18:15 +0000 (WET) In-Reply-To: from "Arnt Gulbrandsen" at Feb 22, 95 03:58:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502231218.aa24685@almaren.ee.surrey.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 477 Lines: 17 Hurlow!! (cadbury parrot impersonation) Has anybody out there had any success with interfacing any 68xx or 65xx ics to a z80? If so, what have they done about the E clock - fed it continuosly with 1MHz and then stretched the z80 reads/writes with waits, or just use the E as a sort of chip-enable line? I think the ACIA needs a continuous E clock, but things like the PIA don't. Is there anyone with any experience of this out there?! Thanks, Andy Gale From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 23 14:22:28 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 14:01:59 GMT Subject: RE: Looking for a backward BASIC conversion Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <49BEA554FB@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 390 Lines: 9 We regret to inform you that the SNA/Z80/EMU convertor has been placed on hold.. please wait whilst I try to reconnect... Yup, that's right... I'm afraid as it's my final year I haven't got much time to even go near a computer at the moment, let alone program one... I must humbly apologise for any problems this may bring.. DMZ -- I suggest the frogs backside approach. === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 23 14:31:31 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 14:05:18 GMT Subject: Re: motorola Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <49CCC87797@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 855 Lines: 31 > From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk > Subject: motorola > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date sent: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:18:15 +0000 (WET) > Send reply to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Hurlow!! (cadbury parrot impersonation) > > Has anybody out there had any success with interfacing > any 68xx or 65xx ics to a z80? If so, what have they done > about the E clock - fed it continuosly with 1MHz and > then stretched the z80 reads/writes with waits, or just > use the E as a sort of chip-enable line? > > I think the ACIA needs a continuous E clock, but things > like the PIA don't. > > Is there anyone with any experience of this out there?! > > Thanks, > > Andy Gale > > Erk! As an ardent hater of all 68xx/65xx chips (especially the 6502) I'd just like to say: why bother? Sorry :) DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 23 16:02:08 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 15:22:37 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <6994@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: Looking for a backward BASIC conversion X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 442 Lines: 15 Well, this MAY have been pointed out already, but my mail is all over the place, but... Most of the constants in Football Manager were set up by a different program to the one you get on the tape. This means that when you type RUN you bugger it! Needless to say, the SAM converter will not look at the variables area either, so unless you can get at the original tape, your copy is useless! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 23 20:44:46 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 15:18:01 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: What's the distribution of Sam users? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 191 Lines: 5 Apparently there are virtually none in the US, but how about Europe? The reason I want to know is because it looks like I'll be moving to Italy in about 6 months. Any users there? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 23 22:14:30 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 20:34:56 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502231434.AA05168@bot25.causew] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: RE: Looking f... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502231434.AA05168@bot25.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: Looking for a backward BASIC conversion Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1919 Lines: 41 On Wed, 22 Feb 1995 15:24:30 +0100 GMT, imc said: > On Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:26:16 GMT, Creature Feature! *PHART* said: > > >Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:18:10 +0100 > > Why? This sort of thing confuses elm. Could someone set their clock to the > right time? > > imc You want me to change my clock? I'm afraid I can't! Sorry! :) Not my computer! Can't change the clock! However........If some smart person could come up of someway to forge the date then I might consider altering it myself! Otherwise, SORRY! :( I can't understand how it went completely off like that though! The clocks on these machines are usually only about 7 minutes slow! But it could be the mailer! Anyway, if it really buggers elm up then I'll try and find someway to fix it! Otherwise, I'll not bother cause I haven't a clue how it happened or how to fix it! Adios peoples! P.S. Watch out for the killer .sig! :) ================================================================================ ======== ======== ====== /> ====== ===== ( //---------------------------------------------------\ ===== ===== (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ===== ===== ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ ===== ====== \> ====== ======== ======== ================================================================================ ====================* Ronan FitzGerald: u9350276@qub.ac.uk *==================== =============================* Tel: (01232) 668261 *============================ ================================================================================ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 23 22:26:02 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 22:19:22 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502231619.AA05535@bot8.causewa] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: RE: Looking f... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502231619.AA05535@bot8.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: Looking for a backward BASIC conversion Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3450 Lines: 73 *cry* WAHHHHHH! Ah well. Back to the old drawing board! ================================================================================ ======== ======== ====== /> ====== ===== ( //---------------------------------------------------\ ===== ===== (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ===== ===== ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ ===== ====== \> ====== ======== ======== ================================================================================ ====================* Ronan FitzGerald: u9350276@qub.ac.uk *==================== =============================* Tel: (01232) 668261 *============================ ================================================================================ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Dec 22 12:02:47 1994 Return-Path: Received: from comlab.oxford.ac.uk (mail.comlab) by ecs.oxford.ac.uk (4.1/ecs.1) id AA10384; Thu, 22 Dec 94 12:02:46 GMT Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk by comlab.oxford.ac.uk id AA09881; Thu, 22 Dec 94 12:00:02 GMT Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <19360-0@oxmail.ox.ac.uk>; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 12:01:16 +0000 Received: (from bin@localhost) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA14698 for sam-users-outgoing; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 13:00:01 +0100 Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk (sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk [128.86.8.45]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA14693 for ; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 12:59:51 +0100 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 11:59:29 +0000 Received: from lewis.sms.ed.ac.uk by castle.ed.ac.uk id aa20128; 22 Dec 94 11:59 GMT Received: from SMS-LEWIS/MAILQUEUE by lewis.sms.ed.ac.uk (Mercury 1.13); Thu, 22 Dec 94 11:56:54 +0000 Received: from MAILQUEUE by SMS-LEWIS (Mercury 1.13); Thu, 22 Dec 94 11:56:37 +0000 From: "ANDREW.D.BIRKETT" <9458183@lewis.sms.edinburgh.ac.uk> Organization: Student Mail Service To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 11:56:31 +0000 Subject: Re: Amazing Gif Viewer... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-Id: <19A58F26D88@lewis.sms.ed.ac.uk> Sender: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: OR Hi there, Finally , I've found time to post to this mailing list. It's the University holidays and I'm _still_ in the Uni library. :-( > It still looks like mine and Andrew Birkett's GIF viewers are the only ones > on the SAM then -- although mine is a mess, so I'd ask Andrew for his if I > were you!! I'll be fiddling about with it over the Christmas holidays, and I'll probably upload it to the ftp site after the holidays. In case anyone remembers the original, I'm also currently doiong a version of the speccy game 'close-in'. I've no idea where the original came from, but it's one of these addictive Tron-style game. Also, I'll be bringing my Sam to Uni next term, so you will probably hear a bit more from me then. Andrew. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 27 08:27:05 1995 From: Johnathan Taylor Date: 26 Feb 95 21:03:06 +0000 Subject: SAM Power consumption... Message-Id: <295_9502270818@centron.com> Organization: CC-NET BBS To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1900 Lines: 44 On (20 Feb 95) Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk wrote... > Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 18:26:31 GMT > From: "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." > Hang on though, a CMOS chip has less drive too, and that is a > problem on sam. Look what happens on the 2up? What happens on the 2up? On my original 3up that spawned the idea of the 2up I can happily run 2Megs ram and a COMMS interface straight off the back of a standard twin internal drive sam... No loading problems at all! Any way I was speaking of a Sam motherboard optimised for a battery powered robotics controller not for normal fully expanded everyday use:-) Though I don't think the Z84C?? range of chips have a much reduced drive capability, it's more different drive characteristics! Eg I believe NMOS z80 provides drive at near identical TTL current levels ie logic 1 output can only source a few hundred micro-amps and a logic 0 output can sink upto a few mili-amps... which would be naff for driving capacitive loads of long data/control buses because it'd have very little drive to charge the bus capacitance to logic 1 but have more than enough current sinking ability to discharge the bus capacitance! Whilst CMOS output stages use a symetrical Complimentry MOS transitor pair and thus provide equal sink & source capability! One consiquence of this is that even if the logic 0 sink ability was half that of the NMOS equivilent the logic 1 source current would be MANY times better than the NMOS version... So a CMOS z80 would be more reliable on a bus that's a bit too high a capacitance for a NMOS z80! In theory anyway;-) Regards Johnathan. ... In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not. -- |Fidonet: Johnathan Taylor 2:2501/307.9 |Internet: jet@centron.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 27 09:24:18 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Rumsoft Imploder Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 09:18:00 PST Message-Id: <2F5207D5@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 10 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 246 Lines: 10 I'm having hassles with the Rumsoft Imploder, every time I try to compress some code, it asks all the questions and then bombs out back into basic, palette screwed and a Basic 'Out of memory' error. Any suggestions pods? Dan Doore. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 27 09:41:01 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: C64 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 09:34:00 PST Message-Id: <2F520B9A@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 19 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 532 Lines: 19 > What is the possibility of a C64 emulator???? How about 'not a lot' As I recall the C64 uses a 6502 (numbers probably wrong, but it ain't a Z80) :) and you would have to provide software emulation for that chip, as well as associated ROM images and other special bits like a custom screen. It could be done, but I doubt the speed that it would run at would make it worthwhile. Unless someone wants the make a second processor unit (a la BBC Micro) :) > P.P.S. Giant .sig on its way!!!! Nasty man. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 27 10:41:04 1995 From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Subject: Re: C64 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 10:28:53 +0000 (WET) In-Reply-To: <2F520B9A@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Feb 27, 95 09:34:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9502271029.aa13708@nienna.ee.surrey.ac.uk.> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 486 Lines: 13 Well, the PC spectrum emulator will run on a 8086 or higher but the PC C64 emulator suggests 386 at minimum, so the chances of the SAM emulating the C64 at reasonable cost are slim to say the least! Which takes me back about two weeks when someone suggested that the PC wasn't powerful enough to emulate the SAM - well, if it can emulate a C64 with its complicated screen modes and SID chip then it can certainly emulate the SAM. -Andrew Gale [happy Mr Burtenshaw?] From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 27 12:44:56 1995 From: goringgn Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 12:40:42 GMT Message-Id: <14790.9502271240@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Bugger, eh? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 66 Lines: 3 Sorry to hear you'll be busy. Good luck and all that. Graham From imc Mon Feb 27 14:12:26 1995 Subject: Blank To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 14:12:26 GMT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 232 Lines: 7 Will the person who keeps sending blank messages please stop it. I have received five so far! (I have heard a rumour that is it you, Simon, so don't send any more messages until you have checked your software out...) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Feb 27 21:50:09 1995 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 16:42:19 -0500 From: Gene Fender To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: More on SAM graphics... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1009 Lines: 24 Thanks for all replies to my previous questions, but now I have a few more. 1) It had been suggested to me that a 128 color picture viewer exists - what is it & where do I get it? 2) What is the common SAM bitmap format & its specs (so that I might write my own conversion utility)? 3) Of the vector art programs that exist for the SAM, do any of them export/import a useful DTP file format such as EPS or even better AI (Adobe Illustrator)? For further debate, I know that one of the SAM resolutions is 256x192, however I have read in this forum that SAM pixels aren't square in this mode. It seems like this mode should feature square pixels since 256x192 is 4:3 (normal TV aspect ratio). The SAM doesn't overscan, however, and could have this problem due to a funky scan window shape. Finally, I've heard little about the Kaleidoscope 16-bit color kit other than that it is crap. Nevertheless, does it work? What is the resolution? What software will support this board? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 28 09:25:37 1995 From: slawek@namu01.gwdg.de Message-Id: <9502280921.AA02422@namu01.gwdg.de> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Cc: slawek@namu01.gwdg.de Subject: Re: More on SAM graphics... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Feb 95 16:42:19 EST." Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 10:21:53 +0100 X-Mts: smtp Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 557 Lines: 15 I send to nvg.... a RGBViewer with a tiff-Converter . You can convert a 'normal' tiff picture ( but 256x192 ) to Sam RGB format with 512 colours "intercaced" . I send a two disks with RGB pictures too . I have Kaleidoscope Interface . This is a realy crap :-(((( You can only change all colours and You have always 128 colours . Now for all : When You will have a Sam-HD IDE Interface Circuit , You can send me Your address and I will send You copy of circuit per postmail. Slawek. Slawek@namu01.gwdg.de Slawek@trueline.harz.sub.org From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 28 12:47:55 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: #Yesterday, all my mail seemed so far away# Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 12:41:00 PST Message-Id: <2F5388ED@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 7 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 151 Lines: 7 Could some kindly soul mail me yeterdays sam-users stuff cos mine got pooped somewhere along the line. Cheers. Dan Doore d.j.doore@lmu.ac.uk From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 28 13:16:31 1995 From: goringgn Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 13:12:40 GMT Message-Id: <13245.9502281312@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: #Yesterday, all my mail seemed so far away# X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 435 Lines: 17 > From D.J.Doore@lmu.ac.uk Tue Feb 28 13:09 GMT 1995 > Resent-Message-Id: <9502281309.AG07421@sun.aston.ac.uk> > > Could some kindly soul mail me yeterdays sam-users stuff cos mine got pooped > somewhere along the line. > Cheers. > > Dan Doore > d.j.doore@lmu.ac.uk > Same here. I think that either demonic or alien forces are at play. Watch the skies!!! Ooh, who thinks T'n'T and Sophistry look lovely? Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 28 14:51:09 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502281431.AA15173@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: C64 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 15:31:53 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9502271029.aa13708@nienna.ee.surrey.ac.uk.> from "ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk" at Feb 27, 95 10:28:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1695 Lines: 42 > > Well, the PC spectrum emulator will run on a 8086 or higher > but the PC C64 emulator suggests 386 at minimum, so the chances > of the SAM emulating the C64 at reasonable cost are slim to say > the least! Or the C64 emulator si is badly written... :) > Which takes me back about two weeks when someone suggested that the > PC wasn't powerful enough to emulate the SAM - well, if it can > emulate a C64 with its complicated screen modes and SID chip > then it can certainly emulate the SAM. I don't recall that the C64 had particularly complicated screen modes (were there more than two?), but it had a funny way of handeling it which made it virtually impossible to draw bitmaps with the 1MHz processor. In stead it heavily relied on sprites, which we all know is not very tricky. The thing about the SAM that makes it so darn difficult, is that you can actually DO things at the end of each scan-line, like changing screen-modes, select another screen to be displayed, change palette, etc. The mere task of keeping the timing of each line-interrupt will take a LOT of time, not to speak about how to actually switch screen, modes etc. on the fly. This is all in the SAMs hardware. Not even Z80 manages to emulate the (ab)use of the second screen on 128K 100%. > > -Andrew Gale > [happy Mr Burtenshaw?] > > > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 28 14:57:15 1995 From: Frode.Tennebo@hiMolde.no Message-Id: <199502281441.AA15292@lyr.hiMolde.no> Subject: Re: Bugger, eh? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 15:41:13 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <14790.9502271240@sun.aston.ac.uk> from "goringgn" at Feb 27, 95 12:40:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 437 Lines: 15 > > Sorry to hear you'll be busy. Good luck and all that. Huh? Me? Thanks. :) > > Graham > -- ^ One To-day is Worth Two To-morrows (Ben Franklin) ^ | ....or: One To-morrow is Worth a Quarter of One Yester-day... | | Frode Tennebo | email: frodet@hiMolde.no | | ECP/PT, CERN, Switzerland | http://www.hiMolde.no/~frodet | | Phone: +33 50 28 26 17 | Luke@IRC | From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 28 15:54:20 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: #Yesterday, all my mail seemed so far away# Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 15:30:00 PST Message-Id: <2F53B166@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 15 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 264 Lines: 15 > > Ooh, who thinks T'n'T and Sophistry look lovely? T'n'T look pretty cool, but the demo on Fred was a tad 'Unresponsive' to my joysick waggles. As for Sophistry, never seen it. So what's the crack with yesterdays mailings? Dan. > Graham > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 28 16:27:28 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 21:53:30 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502281553.AA05350@bot3.causewa] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: eh blank mess... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502281553.AA05350@bot3.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: eh blank messages Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1219 Lines: 20 Am I the only one who got blank messages the other day? If not then good! If so then HELP!!!!!!!!!!!! P.S. As usual: GIANT .sig ATTACK!!!! ================================================================================ ======== ======== ====== /> ====== ===== ( //---------------------------------------------------\ ===== ===== (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ===== ===== ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ ===== ====== \> ====== ======== ======== ================================================================================ ====================* Ronan FitzGerald: u9350276@qub.ac.uk *==================== =======================* Location: Belfast, N. Ireland *======================== =============================* Tel: (01232) 668261 *============================ ================================================================================ From imc Tue Feb 28 16:36:42 1995 Subject: Re: eh blank messages To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 16:36:42 GMT In-Reply-To: <9502281553.AA05350@bot3.causeway.qub.ac.uk>; from "Creature Feature! *PHART*" at Feb 28, 95 9:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 312 Lines: 8 On Tue, 28 Feb 1995 21:53:30 +0100, Creature Feature! *PHART* said: > Am I the only one who got blank messages the other day? I received at least 7 blank messages yesterday. I suspect that anyone who sent some mail yesterday had it translated into a blank message, and they had better resend it. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 28 17:15:14 1995 From: goringgn Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 16:52:17 GMT Message-Id: <618.9502281652@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: #Yesterday, all my mail seemed so far away# X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 604 Lines: 29 > > > > Ooh, who thinks T'n'T and Sophistry look lovely? > > T'n'T look pretty cool, but the demo on Fred was a tad 'Unresponsive' to > my joysick waggles. It's not a sports game, it's a platformer! ;) > As for Sophistry, never seen it. Looks nice, plays nice, sounds like a dream and has a curious addictiveness about it. > So what's the crack with yesterdays mailings? Crack, what crack? I think aliens have been invading the net since it's beginnings. Either that or something went "sploink!" and crapped up at NVG's end. > Dan. Graham > > Graham Again > From imc Tue Feb 28 17:32:31 1995 Subject: Blank Messages To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 17:32:31 GMT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 84 Lines: 4 Aargh, I just received another two blank messages! [very short sig alert] imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 28 17:55:16 1995 Message-Id: <10182.199502281655@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: David Couper <9160631c@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 16:56:07 Subject: Re: eh blank messages To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Mailer: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 240 Lines: 9 >Am I the only one who got blank messages the other day? > >If not then good! If so then HELP!!!!!!!!!!!! Nope. It would seem we all got them. Will e-mail:9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk URL: http://www.gla.ac.uk/Clubs/GUVZS/guvzs.htm From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 28 19:14:33 1995 From: stefan.drissen@tic.iaf.nl Original-Received: by tic.iaf.nl id 0RCP2003 Tue, 28 Feb 95 19:28:13 -0600 Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Message-Id: <9502281928.0RCP200@tic.iaf.nl> Organization: Internet Connection BBS X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.11 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 19:28:13 -0600 Subject: MORE ON SAM GRAPHICS.. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2803 Lines: 50 Hi whoever you are, SAM Graphics, Question 1, Derek Morgan sells a program (Pseudo Color) which allows 256 colour VGA screens to be seen on the SAM. The program was written by Dylan Hall from Australia and the result is rather bloody amazing! You do need an RGB output to be able to see the screens properly (monitor or TV RGB input work fine). What the program does is interlace three screens. Why three screens? Red, Green and Blue are extracted from the VGA picture leaving a screen with only the red component etc. By dithering the RGB screens you get a brilliant effect, ok it does flicker a little, but the general effect is awesome. And since the SAM is only swapping screens it costs no processor time whatsoever. Derek also has five or so demo disks filled with pictures grabbed using the pseudo color program. Pseudo Color contains a disk image for the PC which contains a number of shareware image processing programs (Alchemy, Piclab plus a screen thief) and a batch routine to make the whole thing work perfectly simple, I was impressed. Dylan asked me if I could improve the pics using lineinterrupts, but I wasn't sure what he meant until Robert van der Veeke came up with an idea involving setting the red green and blue per line allowing a full 16 levels per colour instead of the current 5 levels (5 red, 5 green, 5 blue + black), but the effect is more flicker. What Dylan was doing was constantly swapping screens in a machine code loop, I pointed out to him that this was rather pointless (the result was a shearing effect) and wrote a little basic program to simply DISPLAY the screens with a PAUSE 1 in between. The result is a stiller screen. Question 2. The format of the SAM screen is rather simple, check out the technical manual. With the above program it does all the conversion for you anyway (Alchemy handles dozens of screen formats). In brief though, here's mode 4. The SAM has 4 bits per pixel (16 colours). Each byte therefore is two pixels. The upper nibble is the left pixel, the lower nibble the right pixel. Each line therefore consists of 128 bytes (*2 = 256 pixels). Byte 128 is the first byte of the second line of the screen. This goes on for 192 lines. (192*128=24576=24k). To find the address of the screen being displayed use: LET VID=16384*(1+IN 252 BAND 31). Poke around in VID and things should become rather clear. Question 3. Never heard of any vector art programs on the SAM, maybe someone else has, personally I prefer bitmaps, would vector drawings be done justice when display is a relatively low resolution. And the kaleidescope definitely is a load of rubbish. That's all for now, keep cool till after school.... Solar Flare of Entropy (Stefan.Drissen@tic.iaf.nl) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Feb 28 20:36:16 1995 From: stefan.drissen@tic.iaf.nl Original-Received: by tic.iaf.nl id 0TY4B001 Tue, 28 Feb 95 21:19:04 -0600 Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Message-Id: <9502282119.0TY4B00@tic.iaf.nl> Organization: Internet Connection BBS X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.11 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 21:19:04 -0600 Subject: Sophistry! To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 184 Lines: 8 Ooooh, I love Sophistry! I went along and bought 50 copies of it, it's that good! So go on y'all, get at least one copy today!!!! The totally unbiased Stefan Drissen.... From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Mar 1 11:30:04 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 23:08:55 +0100 X400-Originator: U9350276@queens-belfast.ac.uk X400-Recipients: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/;<9502281708.AA08637@bot6.causewa] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: more blank me... From: Creature Feature! *PHART* Message-Id: <9502281708.AA08637@bot6.causeway.qub.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: more blank messsages Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1189 Lines: 20 KOOL! More blank messages! I'm gonna start a collection! :) P.S. Guess what? YEP! Giant .sig time again! : ================================================================================ ======== ======== ====== /> ====== ===== ( //---------------------------------------------------\ ===== ===== (*OXOXOXOXO(*>==R=o=n=a=n==T=h=e==B=a=r=b=a=r=i=a=n================> ===== ===== ( \\---------------------------------------------------/ ===== ====== \> ====== ======== ======== ================================================================================ ====================* Ronan FitzGerald: u9350276@qub.ac.uk *==================== =======================* Location: Belfast, N. Ireland *======================== =============================* Tel: (01232) 668261 *============================ ================================================================================