From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 1 11:10:31 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <5162.9506011003@titian.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Hello? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam-users mailing lsit) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:03:22 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 524 Lines: 14 Abruptly, the sound ceased.......... Erk - Lets try and stimulate some conversation....... The other day, I was happily playing around getting my Sam to report odd error messages (like 124, 67, etc.) and I noticed that some of them, around 127, 128 tried doing something with the disk drive. Since I prefer not to experiment on live disks (!) am I right in assuming that these were trying to do BOOT or something, and why would it be the error messages that were doing it. (Answers in plain-english please) Tim ....@/ From imc Thu Jun 1 11:19:58 1995 Subject: Re: Hello? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 11:19:58 BST In-Reply-To: <5162.9506011003@titian.ecs.soton.ac.uk>; from "Tim Paveley" at Jun 1, 95 11:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 990 Lines: 19 On Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:03:22 +0100 (BST), Tim Paveley said: > The other day, I was happily playing around getting my Sam to report odd > error messages (like 124, 67, etc.) and I noticed that some of them, around > 127, 128 tried doing something with the disk drive. The usual way to make an error is to execute the machine code instruction RST 8 (op code 207) followed by a data byte. Were you doing this? Anyway, various disk operating systems have what they call hook codes. The ZX microdrive even had them. :-) A hook code is a way to call the DOS to do things like searching for a file on the disk. Funnily enough, hook codes are accessed by writing RST 8 followed by a data byte. If you ask me it's silly, but there you go. In SamDOS, the difference between a hook code and an error is that the hook codes have values over 127. I think. So, did you BOOT before doing your experiments? If so then that might be why you got those effects. If not then it's a mystery... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 1 11:37:37 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <5656.9506011032@titian.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: RST 08 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:32:08 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <9506011020.AA27591@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jun 1, 95 12:19:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 719 Lines: 19 To Quote Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk : > The usual way to make an error is to execute the machine code instruction > RST 8 (op code 207) followed by a data byte. Were you doing this? > > things like searching for a file on the disk. Funnily enough, hook codes > are accessed by writing RST 8 followed by a data byte. If you ask me it's > silly, but there you go. In SamDOS, the difference between a hook code and > an error is that the hook codes have values over 127. I think. That sounds right then, I think it was 128 that started it. I was actually playing around with SAM C, and using abort(int) in stdlib which I guess must work like that. Oh well, you learn something new everyday. Cheers! Tim ....@/ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 1 11:49:47 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:37:59 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hello? In-Reply-To: <5162.9506011003@titian.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 940 Lines: 27 On Thu, 1 Jun 1995, Tim Paveley wrote: > Abruptly, the sound ceased.......... > > Erk - Lets try and stimulate some conversation....... > > The other day, I was happily playing around getting my Sam to report odd > error messages (like 124, 67, etc.) and I noticed that some of them, around > 127, 128 tried doing something with the disk drive. Since I prefer not to > experiment on live disks (!) am I right in assuming that these were trying to > do BOOT or something, and why would it be the error messages that were doing > it. > > (Answers in plain-english please) > > Tim ....@/ > DOS Hook codes. +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | Steve Taylor sct1000@cam.ac.uk | | Pembroke College http://nikita.pem.cam.ac.uk/sct1000/ | | Cambridge CB2 1RF | +--------------------------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 1 12:37:14 1995 Message-Id: <14825.9506011120@rs6-233.cls-4.bcc.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Hello? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 12:20:13 +0100 (BST) From: Mr Keith Turner In-Reply-To: from "Steve Taylor" at Jun 1, 95 11:37:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 875 Lines: 25 > On Thu, 1 Jun 1995, Tim Paveley wrote: > > The other day, I was happily playing around getting my Sam to report odd > > error messages (like 124, 67, etc.) and I noticed that some of them, > > around 127, 128 tried doing something with the disk drive. Since I > > prefer not to experiment on live disks (!) am I right in assuming that > > these were trying to do BOOT or something, and why would it be the > > error messages that were doing it. > > > > (Answers in plain-english please) ================================= Steve Taylor said: > DOS Hook codes. The Campaign for Plain English said: Sorry Steve, but due to your use of technical jargon where plain english was required, we will be withdrawing your right to use the Campaign for Plain English "Crystal" clarity symbol this year. Please feel free to reapply next year. :) / Message-Id: <23265.9506051008@titian.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: PC-Suite To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam-users mailing lsit) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 11:07:59 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 183 Lines: 7 I seem to remember a program called PC-Suite, which I believe was for the PC, and was a load of Sam Disk Utilites and stuff. Anyone got any idea exactly what was on it? Tim ....@/ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 5 11:52:44 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: PC-Suite Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 11:47:00 PDT Message-Id: <2FD35160@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 24 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 691 Lines: 24 >I seem to remember a program called PC-Suite, which I believe was for > the PC, and was a load of Sam Disk Utilites and stuff. > > Anyone got any idea exactly what was on it? >From what I remember it was a rip-off UKP25 for a PC disc reader that had a few text converters on it for Tasword etc. But I'm biased, I purchased KE-Disk for a fiver instead and have never looked back.. (and then not long later it was released PD - rats) On the subject of disc utilities, has anyone ever considered writing something like Directory Opus either for Driver or stand-alone as it's the sort of thing that is hady to have when coping discs cross-format or duplicating. Dan. > Tim ....@/ > > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 5 12:14:44 1995 Message-Id: <21104.199506051107@rockall.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: PC-Suite To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:07:57 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <2FD35160@courier.lmu.ac.uk> from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Jun 5, 95 11:47:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1160 Lines: 36 > > > >I seem to remember a program called PC-Suite, which I believe was for > > the PC, and was a load of Sam Disk Utilites and stuff. > > > > Anyone got any idea exactly what was on it? > > >From what I remember it was a rip-off UKP25 for a PC disc reader that > had a few text converters on it for Tasword etc. > > But I'm biased, I purchased KE-Disk for a fiver instead and have never > looked back.. > (and then not long later it was released PD - rats) > > On the subject of disc utilities, has anyone ever considered writing > something > like Directory Opus either for Driver or stand-alone as it's the sort of > thing > that is hady to have when coping discs cross-format or duplicating. > > Dan. > > > Tim ....@/ > > > > > Now that's weird. I haven't received the FIRST reply, yet... -- William Easson E-Mail: 9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk Snail Mail (term): 12, Southpark Terrace, Glasgow G12 8LG, Scotland, UK. Snail Mail (home): 24, Buxton Old Road, Disley, Stockport, Cheshire, UK. Snail Mail (work): Glasgow Vet School, Bearsden Road, Bearsden, Glasgow, UK. "A life spent making many mistakes is better than a life spent doing nothing" From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 5 12:43:41 1995 From: gaw-a@ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Message-Id: >From: gaw-a@minster.york.ac.uk (Geoff Winkless) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:39:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: 9264201e -- "Re: PC-Suite" (Jun 5, 12:07pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92 (ORBIT)) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: PC-Suite Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 468 Lines: 18 On Jun 5, 12:07pm in "Re: PC-Suite", you warbled: ] Now that's weird. I haven't received the FIRST reply, yet... Is that aimed at me? There were a couple of requests for KEdisk I never replied to, simply because they got lost in transit between Leicester and York... As Dan says, it went PD about 2 years ago, so you can download it from nvg. If you _weren't_ talking about KEdisk, ignore me :-) Geoff Ooh, Rocky Robin that's a Mighty Mighty Chocolate Bite... From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 5 12:57:43 1995 Message-Id: <23829.199506051128@rockall.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: PC-Suite To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:28:31 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <21104.199506051107@rockall.cent.gla.ac.uk> from "William Easson" at Jun 5, 95 12:07:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1770 Lines: 53 > > > > > > > >I seem to remember a program called PC-Suite, which I believe was for > > > the PC, and was a load of Sam Disk Utilites and stuff. > > > > > > Anyone got any idea exactly what was on it? > > > > >From what I remember it was a rip-off UKP25 for a PC disc reader that > > had a few text converters on it for Tasword etc. > > > > But I'm biased, I purchased KE-Disk for a fiver instead and have never > > looked back.. > > (and then not long later it was released PD - rats) > > > > On the subject of disc utilities, has anyone ever considered writing > > something > > like Directory Opus either for Driver or stand-alone as it's the sort of > > thing > > that is hady to have when coping discs cross-format or duplicating. > > > > Dan. > > > > > Tim ....@/ > > > > > > > > > > Now that's weird. I haven't received the FIRST reply, yet... I STILL haven't received the first reply, and I've got my own reply back!!! Anyone experiencing these loops in time, too, or am I just shot after my Parasitology exam today?! > -- > William Easson > E-Mail: 9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk > Snail Mail (term): 12, Southpark Terrace, Glasgow G12 8LG, Scotland, UK. > Snail Mail (home): 24, Buxton Old Road, Disley, Stockport, Cheshire, UK. > Snail Mail (work): Glasgow Vet School, Bearsden Road, Bearsden, Glasgow, UK. > > "A life spent making many mistakes is better than a life spent doing nothing" > -- William Easson E-Mail: 9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk Snail Mail (term): 12, Southpark Terrace, Glasgow G12 8LG, Scotland, UK. Snail Mail (home): 24, Buxton Old Road, Disley, Stockport, Cheshire, UK. Snail Mail (work): Glasgow Vet School, Bearsden Road, Bearsden, Glasgow, UK. "A life spent making many mistakes is better than a life spent doing nothing" From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 5 13:21:03 1995 Message-Id: <27476.199506051201@rockall.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: PC-Suite To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 13:01:18 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "Geoff Winkless" at Jun 5, 95 12:39:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 960 Lines: 34 > > On Jun 5, 12:07pm in "Re: PC-Suite", you warbled: > ] Now that's weird. I haven't received the FIRST reply, yet... > > Is that aimed at me? Nope. I was talking about the mailing system. I seem to received messages in a random order. > > There were a couple of requests for KEdisk I never replied to, simply because > they got lost in transit between Leicester and York... > > As Dan says, it went PD about 2 years ago, so you can download it > from nvg. > > If you _weren't_ talking about KEdisk, ignore me :-) > > > Geoff > > Ooh, Rocky Robin that's a Mighty Mighty Chocolate Bite... > > -- William Easson E-Mail: 9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk Snail Mail (term): 12, Southpark Terrace, Glasgow G12 8LG, Scotland, UK. Snail Mail (home): 24, Buxton Old Road, Disley, Stockport, Cheshire, UK. Snail Mail (work): Glasgow Vet School, Bearsden Road, Bearsden, Glasgow, UK. "A life spent making many mistakes is better than a life spent doing nothing" From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 5 13:41:32 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: PC-Suite Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 13:00:00 PDT Message-Id: <2FD36A13@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 12 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 348 Lines: 12 > > Now that's weird. I haven't received the FIRST reply, yet... > > I STILL haven't received the first reply, and I've got my own reply > back!!! Anyone experiencing these loops in time, too, or am I just shot > after my Parasitology exam today?! Ah, the wonders of bulk mailing :)) I once went a whole day like this, it drove me mental. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 5 17:03:01 1995 Message-Id: <199506051553.RAA08937@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: New uploads... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 16:52:28 +0100 (BST) Cc: simonc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 16381 Lines: 287 Hi guys... New uploads to the incoming directory of ftp.nvg.unit.no include: a version of scads that should work (scads.zip) new util to read SAM dirs on a PC (dirs.zip) (not very good, but it's a start) documentation on the Document Reader (as seen in FRED17 onwards, and most Entropy compendium disks) file formats: reader.doc (word 6.0 for windows), reader.ans (ascii text) And that's yer lot. Simon Cooke ps. Work is progressing nicely on the Chimera browser/viewer, and it should be ready soon... lots of the routines are integral to other projects (like Termite, E-DOS, the MultiROM), so it'll advance things a step further... pps Oh yes, and the reader.ans file looks something like this: Document Reader File Format Historical note: The FRED document reader was written by Simon Cooke, and appeared first in FRED disc magazine, issue 17. It was the first of its kind to display compressed text faster than the equivalent BASIC uncompressed text reader. Since then, two more versions have appeared, one a minor bodge to provide printing facilities for the text reader (when version 1 was written, I didn't have a printer, or printer interface, so I had to give it my best guess on how it all worked. I was wrong), and the other being a slightly updated token set, as well as cleaned up file formats, addition of a "Return to help page" button instead of the "Article menu doesn't exist" message which was put in with the printer fix, and a tidier compressor program to go with it. Version 1.2 will be the last one to use this format explicitly; work is in progress on a new, multi-format text reader program (the Entropy Chimera project) which will not only interpret Document Reader files, but also COMET assembler source files, SAM Small C source, Tasword and Outwrite files, MSDOS text files, Hypertext files, SAM BASIC programs, etc etc. It's all just a matter of time. Document reader data types There are three types of file associated with Document Reader - DCP files, MAG files and JYN files. However, the JYN file type only applies to version 1.2 of the document reader program. *.DCP files contain a magic string to identify its own presence in the SAM system, as well as details of the number of pages contained in the MAG archive, and the page and offset in memory at which they can be found. DCP files are always loaded at 16384. NB: if the magic string is not found when the document reader program is run, then it will abort with an error message. *.MAG files contain (for version 1.0) article menu data, giving page numbers at which certain topics held in the document can be found, as well as (for all versions) the actual compressed data stream. *.JYN (joined) files are in actuality merely version 1.2 DCP and MAG files concatenated into a single file, in order to reduce the directory space utilised. The document reader program cannot read these files by itself; a short BASIC program stub is needed to arrange the data in memory in a suitable format before calling the reader. Version 1.0 format: *.DCP file (load to 16384) Offset Function Length 0 Magic String "1991Cookie" (12) 12 Number of pages present in document (1) 15 Page data: page number at which document page starts(1) followed by an offset in the range 0-16383 (2) The page data repeats until all pages in the document have been accounted for. (NB: The "" character is the space character, or &20 hex. The symbol is &7F hex). The page data forms a 3-byte address within the SAM's memory for the start of each page of text in the document archive. Version 1.0 format: *.MAG file (load to 38233) Offset Function Length 0 Address of article page table (2) 2 Number of articles in article table (1) 3 Maximum article name width (in characters) (1) 4 Start of article name data Article name data can be any length, and each article topic is delimited by the last character of the name having bit 7 set. The actual document text starts immediately after the article text in the file, and is pointed to by the DCP file for speed. The article width field is used in rendering menus. The article page table mentioned is a list determining which article topic corresponds to which page of the document. It is worthy of note that the first page in a MAG archive is the help page displayed when the document reader is first loaded, and that it corresponds to page number zero. Version 1.1 file format The version 1.1 file format is in fact identical to the version 1.0 format (the reason for this being so that it would be possible to load in old files for printing purposes). The only difference is that where the v1.0 file would nearly always have an associated article menu, v1.1 files usually have the article menu set to zero entries. Thus, the first 4 bytes of a version 1.1 file will nearly always be: 38233 Address of article page table: 38237 38235 Number of articles found: 0 38236 Max article descriptor width: 0 There will be no article name entries, or page table entries; thus the address pointer at 38233 is invalid, and the magazine page data itself will start at this address. All a reader has to be able to do in order to read both v1.0 files and v1.1 files reliably is to be able to determine the number of articles in the article menu, and to ignore it is the number of articles found field is set to zero. This criterion is not met by the actual v1.0 Document Reader program, and is the reason why it often crashes if attempts to view files made for v1.1 with no article menu are made. Version 1.2 file format: *.DCP files (loads to 16384) Offset Function Length 0 Magic String "1992ENTROPY" (14) 14 Number of pages present in document (1) 15 Page data: page number at which document page starts(1) followed by an offset in the range 0-16383 (2) The page data repeats until all pages in the document have been accounted for. Version 1.2 files are differentiated from their v1.0 and v1.1 equivalents by the different magic string; this is necessary, as all remnants of the article menu data have been removed from the v1.2 MAG file, and also v1.2 uses a different, slightly more optimised compression token table than versions 1.0 and 1.1 (which both use the same one). Version 1.2 file format: *.MAG files (loads to 38300) Whereas the earlier versions held article data (or remnants thereof) here, all such data has been removed in version 1.2 so as to allow the files to take up less disc space. Thus, the only data to be found in the MAG file is the compressed document text itself, as pointed to by the DCP file. Version 1.2 file format: *.JYN files As mentioned above, JYN files are composed of a DCP file, with a MAG file tacked on immediately afterwards. To extract the DCP and MAG files, it is necessary to load the file at, say, 49152, and to calculate the DCP length (using the number of pages value stored 14 bytes into the file), poke the DCP section into memory at 16384, and then move the rest of the file down in memory to 38300. The length of the DCP file is calculated as: (NUMPAGES*3)+18. As the file is just a DCP file joined to a MAG file, it can be validity checked by looking for the string "1992ENTROPY" at the start of the file. Text compression method Document text in a MAG file is compressed using a combination of run- length compression and tokenised strings. Each page is 1344 bytes long (64 characters per line, 21 lines per page). Data bytes below 128 are passed directly to the output routine, bytes with the value 128 are passed onto the run- length subroutine, and the rest (129-255) are passed onto the detokenisation routine. Arguably, better compression could be provided by allowing tokens to also have the value 0-31 - increasing the total number of tokens available from 127 to 159 - but as this is not done by the Document Reader, and there are no further incarnations of the original reader program planned, this is a moot point. Run-Length Compression Spaces are run-length compressed. The compressor works by looking for a string of 3 or more spaces in the document text. (In Outwrite and Tasword format text, 64 spaces are used for a blank line, so this can lead to considerable savings). Thus, whenever a code of &80 hex is found in the compressed text, the next byte is taken, and this is used as a counter to print spaces to the screen. Occurences of two consecutive spaces are compressed by the tokenising routine. For example, if the data in the text stream was (in hexadecimal): 21 41 45 80 10 82 83 41 This would print out as: !AEA The &80 hex is the compressed space character key, and the byte after it - &10 - indicates that 16 spaces are to be printed out. The &82 and &83 bytes are compressed tokens, and until we have gone over the operation of the detokeniser, I have printed them as . Tokenising Compression Tokenising compression works by replacing strings of characters with a reference to a dictionary. This dictionary can then be used to recreate the text. It's similar to short-hand, except for efficiency, we do not use just whole words, but word fragments as well. To compress the text, the tokeniser looks through the uncompressed data to see if it matches one of the "words" or tokens in the dictionary. (This is similar to what BASIC does when the editor puts a line into the program. BASIC does it for two reasons; to save space, and to make it much quicker to actually run a program. We're only doing it for space reasons). If a token is found, 129 is added to the token's dictionary reference number, and it takes the place of the equivalent text in the compressed data. Thus all it's necessary to do to decompress the tokens, is to have a copy of the appropriate dictionary, and then to use the token data to access that table. In the tables below, the dictionary entries are referenced by the normalised (ie with 129 subtracted from them) token numbers; this is to make it easier to write a fast decompressor routine. Each token has bit 7 set on the last character, to mark that the end of the token has been reached. In the above example text string, the compressed data was: 21 41 45 80 10 82 83 41 And the uncompressed string was: !AEA For version 1.0 and version 1.1, we can now write this as: !AEscreensscreenA And for version 1.2, it is now: !AEouldouseA The decompressed tokens are in bold. Version 1.0 and 1.1 Token Dictionary 00 01 02 03 00 address screens screen issue 04 memory screen don't SAMCO 08 SAMCo Coupe FRED bytes 0C data it's from SAM 10 199 code Code Data 14 ould out had Coupe 18 SAMCO SAMCo The the 1C tion at empt 199 20 comp Comp cons Cons 24 ... you 'll ere 28 You it .) n't 2C ity At 199 ing 30 een and And ght 34 mag pro oum ove 38 age - 'm 's 3C You I ant ial 40 ( er , 44 . ! ? 48 A or ss ee 4C ch sh un ly 50 th Th To to 54 ow qu Qu Be 58 be Up up Re 5C re en En us 60 Us ed oo ." 64 !" ?" ; : 68 ) pe Pe ir 6C Ir my pp I 70 dd ea ff ss 74 it rr at At 78 e y ic Version 1.2 Document Reader Token Dictionary 00 01 02 03 00 you'll ould ouse cons 04 comp I'll entr ight 08 ent ing out 0C ang cei ial ant 10 mag pro age I'm 14 'll had n't ean 18 eem ove I'd een 1C all oup SAM the 20 The dis key ave 24 opy oil air eer 28 ure ion vis ban 2C mon hor ard ish 30 nal . , 34 's om sh ch 38 ew ng ic tr 3C cr it ff ss 40 ee oo ou ie 44 ei 'm nt fl 48 ph qu be up 4C re en us ed 50 to ow rr ea 54 ar pe mu th 58 Th ll ff In 5C in pp my I 60 or on et sc 64 ut ex ce ck 68 at At A a 6C It is Is su 70 Co er de di 74 bi ey sp go 78 aw ay il op 7C an oc id From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 5 18:12:12 1995 From: stefan.drissen@tic.iaf.nl Original-Received: by tic.iaf.nl id 0QBJB002 Mon, 05 Jun 95 18:44:08 -0600 Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Message-Id: <9506051844.0QBJB00@tic.iaf.nl> Organization: Internet Connection BBS X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.11 Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 18:44:08 -0600 Subject: (Bi)weekly ramble... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 5070 Lines: 98 Hello once again, since it's been soooo quiet on the sam front lately, time for my little ramble. Not quite weekly as scheduled, but life does get busy at times :(. I'm glad the little mention of random programming got everybody into a chatty mood. One thing which I couldn't help noticing is that everybody went about calculating how many possibilities there were. What if, just imagine, you had a masterpiece on the first go! Ok, so the chance of winning billions with the lottery is larger, but the chance is there! (camera view: everybody runs away from there terminal gets behind there SAM to see if they are a winner). A nice little message from Ian, hmmm putting p(rivate)-mail on p(ublic)-mail??? (That message was meant to be to Andrew anyway and was one of my first "lets test this e-mail thing" attempts. Note the way that it was constructive. Anyway, I'll try to be nice to you from now on Ian (problem is that I couldn't find any nasty bits from you to quote). Don't take it all too personally - I wouldn't call it laying out the bait... Right, what's been going on lately then? I think I'll do a reviewy type of thing of Fred 57 (btw is everyone on the mailing list subscribed to FRED?). So we're back to Ian (kind of). I very much liked the SAM mines game - I'm sure it has stopped people from writing that type of game. There are a lot of very nice features in it (more than my Windows version anyway). Of course I do have a few niggles (which is just my way of being constructive - it is not a direct assault at you Ian (since you only did the samples anyway)). When you move the playing field around the outline is not totally displayed, it's got this ugly scan line running through it - it can't have been that hard to move an outlined box around within a frame???? I liked the clarity of the samples (nice 5 bit thingies me thinks) how about some support for other devices (ed/samdac, blue alpha, quazar? - if you need specs let me know). The choice of samples is rather humourous - nice touch. I hate hearing the "wrong, wrong...." one everytime when I hit a mine with my first move though - an auto first move may have been nice. Apart from those small points I think it's a great game, well done! Next up came another mailing-list dude - Tim's Eggbum. Very nice and professional looking game. I enjoyed playing this one, although being a very simple concept (the best games usually are) it is very nicely polished. It is a bit hard though - ALL of that massive level in one go???? Has anybody completed it?? I'm sure that there are people out there who found the SM -> Etracker converter handy (me not included!). At first I thought woah, what kind of kinky program is this, but I was soon proven wrong. SIL 5+, cool, a speccy demo. Apparently my 128k music player got into the Czech Republic somehow - glad it has helped. It must be pointed out that I ripped it from Cookie's Toxic Elephant conversion and improved it a bit. Cookie ripped it from someone else I believe. As to the demo, ummm, WHAT do all those keys do?? Sure I can read, but that doesn't really help me much... Anonimity is back! plus he reveals his name - oh noooo! The end of being anonymous for our very own Graham Goring!!!! Once again, I enjoyed the read Graham. I'm going to jump straight on to your Hang-SAM game - very cool graphics - I loved the animations!!! Shame on you for working in mode 4 though!!!! ;-) (have you finally been cured?) Next up came the dross E-Tunes - tell Andrew that his player looks quite nice with the new screen! Hmmm, finally my old tunes have been put out. Colin mixed up the converted midi and mod though. Just another day was the converted midi, Silkworm was a converted mod. Keen E-Tune spotters would have noticed this already though. Sorry Colin Piggot - I'm not using your convertor for these, I wrote my own since machine code is somewhat faster (1 second conversion time plus volume changes and speeds converted and ornaments added to make adding chords somewhat simpler). Right, a nice little module by The Code Blasters was next, I used there Whacker Tracker in the early stages of my mod player to get the file format worked out. This mod does of course sound better with version 2.01 of the SAM MOD player (a demo version should be on FRED 58!). Surface Raider is another nice SCADs game (whatever happened to the compiler - since SCADs works with basic this could mean a BASIC Compiler???) Rachel is starting to get beyond my comprehensibility - but I still enjoy the read (this bit's are getting short aren't they?) The adverts - right! Beautifully drawn Fred adverts shoulder with an ancient Format ad, where's a Sophistry ad???? ;-) And that covers, that. I could tell you about some good things which should be on the next Fred (I partly already have) but I won't. I think I've typed my bit for this week. Over to you lot.... (have you all had a week's holiday or something?) Bye, bye for now..... Solar Flare of Entropy (aka Stefan.Drissen@tic.iaf.nl) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 5 18:39:18 1995 Message-Id: <17833.199506051621@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 17:21:21 +0100 From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: New uploads... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 741 Lines: 31 ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 5 17:15:24 1995 remote from Subject: New uploads... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 16:52:28 +0100 (BST) Cc: simonc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Simon Cooke ps. Work is progressing nicely on the Chimera browser/viewer, and it should be ready soon... lots of the routines are integral to other projects (like Termite, E-DOS, the MultiROM), so it'll advance things a step further... Chimera...browser/viewer... Don't tell me you've got a WWW browser to work on the SAM!? Have you? If not, what IS Chimera? -Will Easson PS Has Ronan come back yet? From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 6 08:20:31 1995 Message-Id: <199506060718.JAA14270@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: New uploads... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 08:17:58 +0100 (BST) Cc: simonc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <17833.199506051621@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> from "William Easson" at Jun 5, 95 05:21:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 625 Lines: 20 >> ps. Work is progressing nicely on the Chimera browser/viewer, and it >> should be ready soon... lots of the routines are integral to other >> projects (like Termite, E-DOS, the MultiROM), so it'll advance things a >> step further... > > Chimera...browser/viewer... > > Don't tell me you've got a WWW browser to work on the SAM!? > > Have you? > > If not, what IS Chimera? tum-te-tum... not telling... well, okay... at the moment it's only disk based, but if I ever get the slip/ppp stuff into termite, yes, we will have a fully functional (but with slightly less-colourful gfx) www browser on the sam :) Simon From imc Tue Jun 6 10:44:23 1995 Subject: Re: (Bi)weekly ramble... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 10:44:23 BST In-Reply-To: <9506051844.0QBJB00@tic.iaf.nl>; from "stefan.drissen@tic.iaf.nl" at Jun 5, 95 6:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 422 Lines: 9 On Mon, 05 Jun 95 18:44:08 -0600, stefan.drissen@tic.iaf.nl said: > I liked the clarity of the samples > (nice 5 bit thingies me thinks) how about some support for other devices Sorry to disappoint you, but the samples are preprocessed 4-bit samples. Now I suppose I could redo them for other devices (using up twice as much memory), but I just didn't feel like it... imc :-) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 6 13:58:14 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 13:42:43 GMT Subject: I'm finally back..... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <1DE110D09A3@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 314 Lines: 11 After numerous final year examinations in Astrophysics, I have returned to occasionally haunt this mailing list... Right ho, whats been going on in my absence? (We have a cruel mail server that probably means I lost half the messages..) Oh, this also means I can start working on the DOOM clone.... :) DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 6 16:40:34 1995 From: goringgn Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 16:11:49 +0100 Message-Id: <5107.9506061511@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: (Bi)weekly ramble... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4778 Lines: 115 >Hello once again, Hello, and why haven't you replied to my mail? Hmm? Why? >Right, what's been going on lately then? I think I'll do a reviewy type of >thing of Fred 57 (btw is everyone on the mailing list subscribed to FRED?). I am. Well, that's obvious really. >So we're back to Ian (kind of). I very much liked the SAM mines gamee Same here. Congrats. I was playing it all night and I was late for work the next morning. Ack. > Next up came another mailing-list dude - Tim's Eggbum. Very nice and > professional looking game. I enjoyed playing this one, although being a very > simple concept (the best games usually are) it is very nicely polished. It is > a bit hard though - ALL of that massive level in one go???? Has anybody > completed it?? Helluva addictive too. Honest, Tim. I am going to register it soon... Colin Anderton got all but 3 crystally clustery things then died. I almost pissed myself... >I'm sure that there are people out there who found the SM -> Etracker converter >handy (me not included!). At first I thought woah, what kind of kinky program >is this, but I was soon proven wrong. That last line about lanky and elephants breath on the text page was changed by the evil Colin Anderton, as it used to say that his mum was a whore. :) > SIL 5+, cool, a speccy demo. Apparently my 128k music player got into the > Czech Republic somehow - glad it has helped. It must be pointed out that I > ripped it from Cookie's Toxic Elephant conversion and improved it a bit. > Cookie ripped it from someone else I believe. As to the demo, ummm, WHAT do > all those keys do?? Sure I can read, but that doesn't really help me much... Use Shift+1 to 6 for the information. But it is blimmin' confusing. > Anonimity is back! plus he reveals his name - oh noooo! The end of being > anonymous for our very own Graham Goring!!!! Once again, I enjoyed the read > Graham. I'm going to jump straight on to your Hang-SAM game - very cool > graphics - I loved the animations!!! Shame on you for working in mode 4 > though!!!! ;-) (have you finally been cured?) Cured? Hey! That was my perverted phase. I'll never leave my darling mode 1 again... Blimey, sorry about all the spelling mistakes by the way. There were bucket-fulls. >Next up came the dross E-Tunes - tell Andrew that his player looks quite nice >with the new screen! Hmmm, finally my old tunes have been put out. Colin >mixed up the converted midi and mod though. Just another day was the converted >midi, Silkworm was a converted mod. Keen E-Tune spotters would have noticed >this already though. Sorry Colin Piggot - I'm not using your convertor for >these, I wrote my own since machine code is somewhat faster (1 second >conversion time plus volume changes and speeds converted and ornaments added to >make adding chords somewhat simpler). Ha! I told Colin that Silkworm was a MOD, but the little turd didn't believe me. I'll give him a good kicking on sunday... Um, this converter, Stefan? Not PD is it? >Right, a nice little module by The Code Blasters was next, I used there Whacker >Tracker in the early stages of my mod player to get the file format worked out. > This mod does of course sound better with version 2.01 of the SAM MOD player >(a demo version should be on FRED 58!). And it is. Slot, um, oh. Damn. Forgotten. > Surface Raider is another nice SCADs game (whatever happened to the compiler - > since SCADs works with basic this could mean a BASIC Compiler???) SCADS??? Games Master you berk! James "FLA" Curry doesn't have SCADS. Besides, it doesn't have that SCADSy feel to it that all other games do... > Rachel is starting to get beyond my comprehensibility - but I still enjoy the > read (this bit's are getting short aren't they?) I loved it. Pity Andrew never finished the story. I still have hopes though... > The adverts - right! Beautifully drawn Fred adverts BRAVO! > shoulder with an ancient Format ad, With the wrong Phone number AND a spelling mistake on it. > where's a Sophistry ad???? ;-) Ask RJV, I assume it's him that's doing one. :) > And that covers, that. > > I could tell you about some good things which should be on the next Fred (I > partly already have) but I won't. Okay then, I will... There's a game, no, two games. Or is it three. Oh bugger. Actually I doubt if I should tell or Colin MacD might be annoyed. I dunno though... >I think I've typed my bit for this week. Over to you lot.... (have you all had >a week's holiday or something?) I can't speak for them, but I'm just plain lazy. > Bye, bye for now..... Au Revoir, as they say in Frog-Land. :) > Solar Flare of Entropy (aka Stefan.Drissen@tic.iaf.nl) Graham Goring Of Nobody In Particualar (aka That.Greasy.Sod@That.Crap.Uni) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 7 12:34:02 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <11009.9506071127@titian.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: (Bi)weekly ramble... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 12:27:40 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <5107.9506061511@sun.aston.ac.uk> from "goringgn" at Jun 6, 95 04:11:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1149 Lines: 25 >>So we're back to Ian (kind of). I very much liked the SAM mines gamee > Same here. Congrats. I was playing it all night and I was late for work the > next morning. Ack. Likewise (easy this) Though there are a couple of minor things I'd have liked to see, such as a completely customisable table, still incredibly good though. >>Next up came another mailing-list dude - Tim's Eggbum. Very nice and EGGBuM please ;-) >>professional looking game. I enjoyed playing this one, although being a very >>simple concept (the best games usually are) it is very nicely polished. It is >>a bit hard though - ALL of that massive level in one go???? Has anybody >>completed it?? Yes, the person I wrote it with, (git), finished it before me, oh well, I'll have to try for fastest time. (Stefen - Can I quote you on "nicely polished" please?) > Helluva addictive too. Honest, Tim. I am going to register it soon... :-) Of course you are...... >>Solar Flare of Entropy (aka Stefan.Drissen@tic.iaf.nl) > Graham Goring Of Nobody In Particualar (aka That.Greasy.Sod@That.Crap.Uni) Unc of Sad Snail Productions (aka tsp93@ecs.soton.ac.uk) ....@/ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 7 15:56:10 1995 From: mcscs3cgm@vaxd.dct.ac.uk Date: Wed, 07 Jun 1995 15:46:08 GMT To: SAM-USERS@nvg.unit.no Message-Id: <00991876.451382C0.111@vaxd.dct.ac.uk> Subject: Disciple software anyone? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 269 Lines: 7 I've had Bob 'LERM' Evans on the phone asking if I know of anyone that can get him the software that came with the Disciple. If anyone has any ideas, can you please let me know because I also have a Disciple without the software to let me use it..... Colin Macdonald From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 7 16:48:22 1995 Message-Id: <9506071544.AA21956@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman (Dr Kid) Subject: Re: Disciple software anyone? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 7 Jun 95 17:44:32 METDST In-Reply-To: <00991876.451382C0.111@vaxd.dct.ac.uk>; from "mcscs3cgm@vaxd.dct.ac.uk" at Jun 07, 95 3:46 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 250 Lines: 11 Hi Colin, Haven't got the Disciple software, but I have got the tape with the +D opertating system on - is that any help? Allan BTW did you get my mail with regards to SAM C and SAM paint which were bought for me by Kieth Turner at the show? -- From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 8 06:48:30 1995 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 1995 05:49:06 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <9116@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Disciple software anyone? X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 250 Lines: 11 Re Disciple software, I think your best bet would be Bob surely? If not, then Brian Cavers has got most of the stuff. Are we talking SYS file here? If you want Brian Cavers' address or number, Colin, I can Email it. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jun 10 11:02:14 1995 Date: Fri, 09 Jun 1995 19:30:05 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <9147@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Chris Pile X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 266 Lines: 9 Well, I have no idea what is going on. It was a shock to me to hear of his arrest for putting Viruses around. Have any of you folks heard anything. He pleaded guilty, I know, and he did not want me as a character witness apparently. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jun 10 11:15:05 1995 From: frodet@www1.cern.ch (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9506101013.AA04825@wwwlab.cern.ch> Subject: Re: Chris Pile To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 12:13:26 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9147@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jun 9, 95 07:30:05 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 494 Lines: 15 > > Well, I have no idea what is going on. It was a shock to me to > hear of his arrest for putting Viruses around. Have any of you > folks heard anything. He pleaded guilty, I know, and he did not > want me as a character witness apparently. Huh?? Who's Chris Pile? What has he got to do on a sam-users mailing list? Surely they were not SAM viruses. :) -Frode -- Frode Tenneboe, ECP/PT, CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland frodet@www.cern.ch http://www.himolde.no/~frodet From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jun 10 18:54:36 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 18:53:42 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Wells To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Chris Pile X-Sender: tgw1001@imap.hermes.cam.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <9506101013.AA04825@wwwlab.cern.ch> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 509 Lines: 14 > > > > Well, I have no idea what is going on. It was a shock to me to > > hear of his arrest for putting Viruses around. Have any of you > > folks heard anything. He pleaded guilty, I know, and he did not > > want me as a character witness apparently. > > Huh?? Who's Chris Pile? What has he got to do on a sam-users > mailing list? Surely they were not SAM viruses. :) I think Chris Pile wrote ProDOS. However I haven't heard anything of him in SAM circles since then. Tim Wells - From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jun 11 16:59:05 1995 From: P.A.Finn-SE2@cs.bham.ac.uk Date: Sun, 11 Jun 95 16:56:11 BST Message-Id: <12409.9506111556@tigger.cs.bham.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Shareware X-Mailer: [XMailTool v3.1.2] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 713 Lines: 21 Does anyone on here know the procedures for releasing some software as shareware?? I want to release my final year project as shareware but I don't know what doc's and stuff should be released with it. Can anyone help?? Also can someone post me the info for unsubscribing from this list? Cheers, Paul. PS Is anyone interested in me digging up some old SAM stuff that I wrote ages ago? There were 2 cartoons if I remember rightly, one of them was pretty good. *** *** *** *** *** --------------------- ****** *** *** *** | paf@cs.bham.ac.uk | *** *** *** *** *** --------------------- *** *** *** *** *** PUT YOUR FAITH IN A LOUD GUITAR From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 12 07:03:11 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 06:27:57 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <9177@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Chris Pile X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 331 Lines: 17 In message <9506101013.AA04825@wwwlab.cern.ch> Frode Tenneboe writes: > > Huh?? Who's Chris Pile? What has he got to do on a sam-users > mailing list? Surely they were not SAM viruses. :) > > -Frode > > He wrote Pro-Dos No, they were not SAM Viruses, he had a PC, a Spectrun and an Einstein. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 12 10:17:15 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <21600.9506120913@titian.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Summer Holidays To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam-users mailing lsit) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:13:35 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 212 Lines: 7 Just out of interest, since I wasn't here last year..... How busy is this list likely to be over the Summer period (July -> Sept)? I just wondered whether or not it would be worth me unsubscribing. Tim ....@/ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 12 12:15:29 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: Shareware Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 09:27:00 PDT Message-Id: <2FDC918D@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 27 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 710 Lines: 27 > Does anyone on here know the procedures for releasing some > software as shareware?? I want to release my final year project > as shareware but I don't know what doc's and stuff should be > released with it. Can anyone help?? The chances are you won't be able to, since universitys usually own any work done by students and will screw you backwards if you try to make any money from it. > Also can someone post me the info for unsubscribing from this > list? SeeYa. > Cheers, > > Paul. > > PS Is anyone interested in me digging up some old SAM stuff that > I wrote ages ago? There were 2 cartoons if I remember rightly, > one of them was pretty good. ZIP it and dump it on NVG, I fancy a look. Dan. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 14 12:53:24 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 12:42:41 GMT Subject: Helloee? Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <29D2D532136@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 36 Lines: 4 Is there anybody there? :) DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 14 13:22:41 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 13:18:52 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Helloee? In-Reply-To: <29D2D532136@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 454 Lines: 16 On Wed, 14 Jun 1995, David Zambonini wrote: > Is there anybody there? :) > > DMZ > === > Is this a philosophical question? +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | Steve Taylor sct1000@cam.ac.uk | | Pembroke College http://nikita.pem.cam.ac.uk/sct1000/ | | Cambridge CB2 1RF | +--------------------------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 14 13:33:54 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: Helloee? Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 13:30:00 PDT Message-Id: <2FDF46FF@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 10 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 141 Lines: 10 > Is there anybody there? :) Yep, but I'm busy ;)) Dan. [MIS Head Pod] MailSig 1.6 - Originality is the art of concealing your sources. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 14 13:52:13 1995 Message-Id: <199506141238.OAA07457@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: Helloee? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 13:28:30 +0100 (BST) Cc: simonc@nessie.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <29D2D532136@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> from "David Zambonini" at Jun 14, 95 12:42:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Original-Sender: owner-sam-users@no.unit.nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 47 Lines: 8 > Is there anybody there? :) YES. :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 14 14:05:22 1995 Message-Id: <199506141258.OAA07593@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Accelerators, text viewers, et al To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 13:58:22 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 920 Lines: 25 Just talked to Zilog UK... estimated cost of a 20MHz accelerator for the sam is now around 80/90 UKP. AND... if you don't mind losing a little compatibility (the R register springs to mind, and some ports), we could also use a 33MHz Z180 ... Sooo... on the browser side, apparently Andrew Collier is working on a new FRED text browser... with LZH compression for text, mouse GUI style interface, and it will play E-tracker music in the background. On my front, there's the Chimera browser. Initially supporting (probably) just the DCP/MAG file combination of earlier ones (just to get it out of the door), it will also handle COMET assembler source, Milan Salajka's HTX format Hypertext files, Outwrite text files, SAM C source, HTML files... and more. Features will include a nice GUI interface, virtual memory capabilities, and it'll even be able to read FIDONET mail packets... (Guess why?) :) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 14 18:23:21 1995 From: frodet@www1.cern.ch (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9506141653.AA20743@wwwlab.cern.ch> Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 18:53:52 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199506141258.OAA07593@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> from "Simon Cooke" at Jun 14, 95 01:58:22 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1267 Lines: 40 > > Just talked to Zilog UK... estimated cost of a 20MHz accelerator for the > sam is now around 80/90 UKP. Hmmm....sounds very interesting.... > > AND... if you don't mind losing a little compatibility (the R register > springs to mind, and some ports), we could also use a 33MHz Z180 ... What are the gains in this case? What's the price difference? Etc.? ;) > > Sooo... > > on the browser side, apparently Andrew Collier is working on a new FRED > text browser... with LZH compression for text, mouse GUI style interface, > and it will play E-tracker music in the background. I have a nice application for that one..perhaps... > > On my front, there's the Chimera browser. Initially supporting (probably) > just the DCP/MAG file combination of earlier ones (just to get it out of > the door), it will also handle COMET assembler source, Milan Salajka's > HTX format Hypertext files, Outwrite text files, SAM C source, HTML files... > > and more. Features will include a nice GUI interface, virtual memory > capabilities, and it'll even be able to read FIDONET mail packets... > (Guess why?) I give up. :) -Frode -- Frode Tenneboe, ECP/PT, CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland frodet@www.cern.ch http://www.himolde.no/~frodet From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 15 12:37:02 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:32:16 GMT Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <2B5046475BE@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1385 Lines: 34 SC: > > Just talked to Zilog UK... estimated cost of a 20MHz accelerator for the > > sam is now around 80/90 UKP. FT: > Hmmm....sounds very interesting.... > > > > > AND... if you don't mind losing a little compatibility (the R register > > springs to mind, and some ports), we could also use a 33MHz Z180 ... > > What are the gains in this case? What's the price difference? > Etc.? ;) > Hang on... isn't that rather similar to the Z800 series, in fact isn't it just the same chip under a different name? I do know that the Z8108 (ne Z180?) uses clock doubling and quadrupling in relation to the bus clock.. so why not just drop it in on a daughter board over the old Z80B and have a 24Mhz version? Surely this is much simpler from a programming point of view since you don't need to worry about any external ports etc. that you get if you use it as a copro. In this case, you lose R register compatibility since it no longer uses the R register for refresh purposes, having a seperate on board refresh generator instead. The R register is therefore no longer incremented, and is merely used as a general purpose register. I believe this is more than made up for by system and user modes, 256 bytes of cache ( or look ahead ) memory, 32 bit commands (double word), not to mention those lovely MULT and DIV commands... DMZ === PS OK then, is anybody NOT there? :) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 15 14:04:02 1995 From: frodet@www1.cern.ch (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9506151247.AA23020@wwwlab.cern.ch> Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 14:47:19 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199506151235.OAA02125@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> from "Simon Cooke" at Jun 15, 95 01:37:52 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1359 Lines: 44 > > > > AND... if you don't mind losing a little compatibility (the R register > > > springs to mind, and some ports), we could also use a 33MHz Z180 ... > > > > What are the gains in this case? What's the price difference? > > Etc.? ;) > > Right, well the price differnce is about another 10-20UKP on top of the > original estimate. I checked up, and the R register is the same as it was > before, as is most other stuff... BUT it has programmable wait states, an > MMU and a few other nifty things built in -- which probably won't be used > if it's just an accelerator. MMU...I can see SAMIX comming up :) The faster the better - what about incorperating it all into a Super Midget? > > > > and more. Features will include a nice GUI interface, virtual memory > > > capabilities, and it'll even be able to read FIDONET mail packets... > > > (Guess why?) > > > > I give up. :) > > Simple -- Termite needs it :) Ah.....but only if you connect to FIDONET. > > Oh, and what's the concensus -- does MY viewer need E-tracker music, or not? Hum...eh....well, not even Netscrape has that...I can see new tags showing up in hear future. or osv. :) -Frode -- Frode Tenneboe, ECP/PT, CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland frodet@www.cern.ch http://www.himolde.no/~frodet From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 15 14:05:12 1995 Message-Id: <199506151235.OAA02125@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 13:37:52 +0100 (BST) Cc: simonc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <9506141653.AA20743@wwwlab.cern.ch> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Jun 14, 95 06:53:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 858 Lines: 24 > > AND... if you don't mind losing a little compatibility (the R register > > springs to mind, and some ports), we could also use a 33MHz Z180 ... > > What are the gains in this case? What's the price difference? > Etc.? ;) Right, well the price differnce is about another 10-20UKP on top of the original estimate. I checked up, and the R register is the same as it was before, as is most other stuff... BUT it has programmable wait states, an MMU and a few other nifty things built in -- which probably won't be used if it's just an accelerator. > > and more. Features will include a nice GUI interface, virtual memory > > capabilities, and it'll even be able to read FIDONET mail packets... > > (Guess why?) > > I give up. :) Simple -- Termite needs it :) Oh, and what's the concensus -- does MY viewer need E-tracker music, or not? Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 15 14:18:51 1995 Message-Id: <199506151313.PAA02294@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 14:16:00 +0100 (BST) Cc: simonc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <2B5046475BE@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> from "David Zambonini" at Jun 15, 95 12:32:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1570 Lines: 30 > Hang on... isn't that rather similar to the Z800 series, in fact > isn't it just the same chip under a different name? > I do know that the Z8108 (ne Z180?) uses clock doubling and > quadrupling in relation to the bus clock.. so why not just drop it in > on a daughter board over the old Z80B and have a 24Mhz version? > Surely this is much simpler from a programming point of view since > you don't need to worry about any external ports etc. that you get if > you use it as a copro. > In this case, you lose R register compatibility since it no longer > uses the R register for refresh purposes, having a seperate on board > refresh generator instead. The R register is therefore no longer > incremented, and is merely used as a general purpose register. > I believe this is more than made up for by system and user modes, > 256 bytes of cache ( or look ahead ) memory, 32 bit commands (double > word), not to mention those lovely MULT and DIV commands... Ah, that's the Z280 you're thinking of -- neither the Z180 nor the Z380 have the cache or the clock-doubler in them. Unfortunately, Zilog are ditching the Z280, (or at least they're not recommending people use it in new designs -- is this tantamount to the same thing?) so it looks like we can't use that one... If anyone can get hold of one of these chips with built in clock-doubler, or at least tell me a SPECIFIC id number, and it's Z80 pin compatible, I'll get one sent up to Colin PIggot to try out on his SAM testbed. Might be cheaper and easier than the full-blown emulator Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 15 14:49:57 1995 Message-Id: <199506151326.PAA02375@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 14:27:56 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9506151247.AA23020@wwwlab.cern.ch> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Jun 15, 95 02:47:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1373 Lines: 39 > > Right, well the price differnce is about another 10-20UKP on top of the > > original estimate. I checked up, and the R register is the same as it was > > before, as is most other stuff... BUT it has programmable wait states, an > > MMU and a few other nifty things built in -- which probably won't be used > > if it's just an accelerator. > > MMU...I can see SAMIX comming up :) BUT the problem with the MMU is that it won't work in the SAM's architecture... not comfortably anyway. > The faster the better - what about incorperating it all into a Super > Midget? That's the plan. Either using a Z380 or an ARM610/710... we're not fully decided on it yet. > > Simple -- Termite needs it :) > > Ah.....but only if you connect to FIDONET. True, which is the aim for version 2.0. The moment I get enough spare time to swing a cat in (to mix metaphors), I'm back to work on Termite and getting it out of the door. > > Oh, and what's the concensus -- does MY viewer need E-tracker music, or not? > > Hum...eh....well, not even Netscrape has that...I can see new tags > showing up in hear future. > > or > osv. :) *grins* It'll play WAV and AU files, but I'm not sure about Etracker... it seems like a waste of processor time to me. But then, maybe I'm just getting jaded in my old age. Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 15 15:08:17 1995 From: Colin G Piggot Date: Thu, 15 Jun 95 14:43:25 BST Message-Id: <28927.9506151343@pasta.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 482 Lines: 12 Si Cooke says: > If anyone can get hold of one of these chips with build in clock-doubler, > or at least tell me a SPECIFIC id number, and it's Z80 pin compatible, > I'll get one sent up to Colin Piggot to try out on his SAM testbed. Yes, very intresting.... then in theorey the ASIC waits wont be out of sync, which happens with an 8MHz Z80, or a 12MHz Z80 - using a clock doubler on the original 6MHz (5.96MHz to be accurate!) clock signal from the ASIC. Can't Wait! Colin P. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 15 15:09:42 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <2356.9506151342@cezanne.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 14:42:05 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199506151235.OAA02125@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> from "Simon Cooke" at Jun 15, 95 01:37:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 150 Lines: 6 To Quote Simon Cooke : > Oh, and what's the concensus -- does MY viewer need E-tracker music, or not? I'd say no, but that's personal taste. ....@/ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 16 13:24:39 1995 From: frodet@www1.cern.ch (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9506161213.AA00234@wwwlab.cern.ch> Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:13:28 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199506151326.PAA02375@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> from "Simon Cooke" at Jun 15, 95 02:27:56 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1295 Lines: 45 > BUT the problem with the MMU is that it won't work in the SAM's > architecture... not comfortably anyway. *sigh* So what is possible then? ;) > > > The faster the better - what about incorperating it all into a Super > > Midget? > > That's the plan. Either using a Z380 or an ARM610/710... we're not fully > decided on it yet. Ah..so it's the Midget + Accelrator for 80/90GBP (+20 if 33MHz)? > > > > Simple -- Termite needs it :) > > > > Ah.....but only if you connect to FIDONET. > > True, which is the aim for version 2.0. The moment I get enough spare > time to swing a cat in (to mix metaphors), I'm back to work on Termite > and getting it out of the door. EHm....are you going to put other capabilities than RS232 into a terminal emulation program? > *grins* It'll play WAV and AU files, but I'm not sure about Etracker... > it seems like a waste of processor time to me. In a single processing enviroment, you hardly have to worry about wast of processor time. :) Either it uses the time or it's wasted anyway. > > But then, maybe I'm just getting jaded in my old age. Ah..yeah, the age is getting to us all, isn't it? > Simon > -Frode -- Frode Tenneboe, ECP/PT, CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland frodet@www.cern.ch http://www.himolde.no/~frodet From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 16 14:42:24 1995 Message-Id: <199506161330.PAA10757@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 15:26:24 MET From: Milan Salajka Subject: z80 assembler for ms-dos To: sam-users Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 141 Lines: 8 Hello, i'm looking for some good z80 assembler for ms-dos. What is the best z80 cross/macro assembler for ms-dos ??? Thanks Milan From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 16 16:03:45 1995 From: frodet@www1.cern.ch (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9506161434.AA00510@wwwlab.cern.ch> Subject: Re: z80 assembler for ms-dos To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 16:34:05 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199506161330.PAA10757@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> from "Milan Salajka" at Jun 16, 95 03:26:24 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 312 Lines: 14 > > > Hello, > > i'm looking for some good z80 assembler for ms-dos. What is the > best z80 cross/macro assembler for ms-dos ??? zmac should be a rather good one for unix though. -- Frode Tenneboe, ECP/PT, CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland frodet@www.cern.ch http://www.himolde.no/~frodet From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 16 18:31:15 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 16:46:21 +0200 (MET DST) From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al In-Reply-To: <1090.199506161239@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 249 Lines: 8 I just received a message addressed to the following address: Frode Tenneboe It is not the first. My policy is to ditch such mail, on the theory that people using broken mailers don't care about their mail. --Arnt From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 16 18:40:02 1995 From: frodet@www1.cern.ch (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9506161730.AA00667@wwwlab.cern.ch> Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 19:30:49 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: from "Arnt Gulbrandsen" at Jun 16, 95 04:46:21 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 478 Lines: 18 > > I just received a message addressed to the following address: > > Frode Tenneboe > > It is not the first. My policy is to ditch such mail, on the theory that > people using broken mailers don't care about their mail. Spoersmaalet er vel hvorfor du fikk den mailen. Mine to kopier kom vel fram. > > --Arnt > -- Frode Tenneboe, ECP/PT, CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland frodet@www.cern.ch http://www.himolde.no/~frodet From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 16 18:48:37 1995 From: frodet@www1.cern.ch (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9506161732.AA00694@wwwlab.cern.ch> Subject: Re: Accelerators, text viewers, et al To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 19:32:46 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9506161730.AA00667@wwwlab.cern.ch> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Jun 16, 95 07:30:49 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 577 Lines: 23 > > > > > I just received a message addressed to the following address: > > > > Frode Tenneboe > > > > It is not the first. My policy is to ditch such mail, on the theory that > > people using broken mailers don't care about their mail. > > Spoersmaalet er vel hvorfor du fikk den mailen. Mine to kopier > kom vel fram. > > > > --Arnt > > Sorry about that one. Was supposed to be a private mail. :/ -Frode -- Frode Tenneboe, ECP/PT, CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland frodet@www.cern.ch http://www.himolde.no/~frodet From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jun 18 12:15:41 1995 From: frodet@www1.cern.ch (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9506181113.AA03881@wwwlab.cern.ch> Subject: Mailers To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 13:13:21 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9506161732.AA00694@wwwlab.cern.ch> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Jun 16, 95 07:32:46 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 446 Lines: 13 Hi! Just a quick message. Some people here seems to be using mailers that use the bounce-address instead of the reply-address. This results in replies to the group are sent to sam-users-owner@nvg..... This will never reach the list. Check your mailer svp - mail to the list should be sent to sam-users@nvg.... Thanks. -- Frode Tenneboe, ECP/PT, CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland frodet@www.cern.ch http://www.himolde.no/~frodet From imc Tue Jun 20 11:15:06 1995 Subject: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 11:15:06 BST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 346 Lines: 9 My Sam has turned into a black-and-white one. :-( Previously I have been able to make it spring back into colour by twiddling C32, but now no amount of fiddling seems to make any difference. Any suggestions as to what I should try next? (Preferably one that doesn't involve an oscilloscope or dismantling the Sam into 1000 spare parts.) imc. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 11:57:25 1995 Message-Id: <9506201049.AA16379@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman (Dr Kid) Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 12:49:04 METDST In-Reply-To: <9506201015.AA04917@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk>; from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jun 20, 95 12:15 (noon) Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 461 Lines: 11 Now that sounds familiar.... My first SAM's colour was fine - unfortunately it had a dud ASIC so off it went to BLUE ALPHA to be replaced with a nice Art Deco Monocrome SAM. After sending it back again and waiting the obligatory 10 weeks for it to return it wasn't much better - turning the C32 helped but only gave me colour with terrible dot crawl. I finally gave up and bought a Monitor and I've had no problems since. Is display problem common? Allan -- From imc Tue Jun 20 12:00:43 1995 Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 12:00:43 BST In-Reply-To: <9506201049.AA16379@dxmint.cern.ch>; from "Allan Skillman" at Jun 20, 95 12:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 356 Lines: 10 On Tue, 20 Jun 95 12:49:04 METDST, Allan Skillman said: > I finally gave up and bought a Monitor and I've had > no problems since. Is display problem common? Oh yes I forgot to mention: the solution should not involve buying an RGB monitor either. ;-) [BTW, both the UHF and the composite video outputs are in monochrome]. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 12:12:29 1995 Message-Id: <9506201109.AA23787@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman (Dr Kid) Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 13:09:17 METDST In-Reply-To: <9506201100.AA05005@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk>; from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jun 20, 95 1:00 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 122 Lines: 7 > [BTW, both the UHF and the composite video outputs are in monochrome]. Yep Mine too. Probably the same problem > -- From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 12:40:48 1995 Message-Id: <4129.199506201123@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 12:23:03 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <9506201049.AA16379@dxmint.cern.ch> from "Allan Skillman" at Jun 20, 95 12:49:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1229 Lines: 31 > > Now that sounds familiar.... > > My first SAM's colour was fine - unfortunately it had a dud ASIC so off it > went to BLUE ALPHA to be replaced with a nice Art Deco Monocrome SAM. > After sending it back again and waiting the obligatory 10 weeks for it to > return it wasn't much better - turning the C32 helped but only gave me colour > with terrible dot crawl. I finally gave up and bought a Monitor and I've had > no problems since. Is display problem common? > > Allan > -- > Crikey. I thought I was the only one with a b&w SAM. I just put it up to having a crap portable telly and put up with it (colour comes back after about 2 hours' use). -- Yours, William E B Easson E-Mail: 9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk WWW: http://www.gla.ac.uk/Clubs/WebSoc/members/9264201e/will.html and: http://www.gla.ac.uk/Clubs/GUVZS/guvzs.html Snail Mail (term): None just now. Snail Mail (home): 24, Buxton Old Road, Disley, Stockport, Cheshire, UK. Snail Mail (work): Glasgow Vet School, Bearsden Road, Bearsden, Glasgow, UK. "A life spent making many mistakes is better than a life spent doing nothing" "And now, we wait..." S.Farnon (by J. Herriot) **************************END OF MESSAGE************************************** From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 13:19:19 1995 Message-Id: <199506201216.OAA19907@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 13:15:28 +0100 (BST) Cc: simonc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <9506201015.AA04917@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jun 20, 95 12:15:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 482 Lines: 13 > My Sam has turned into a black-and-white one. :-( > > Previously I have been able to make it spring back into colour by twiddling > C32, but now no amount of fiddling seems to make any difference. > > Any suggestions as to what I should try next? (Preferably one that doesn't > involve an oscilloscope or dismantling the Sam into 1000 spare parts.) Get an old CUB monitor, and view it through that? I assume that you're using the SAM with a telly to get this problem? Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 13:19:20 1995 Message-Id: <199506201216.OAA19909@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 13:17:05 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9506201049.AA16379@dxmint.cern.ch> from "Allan Skillman" at Jun 20, 95 12:49:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 721 Lines: 15 > My first SAM's colour was fine - unfortunately it had a dud ASIC so off it > went to BLUE ALPHA to be replaced with a nice Art Deco Monocrome SAM. > After sending it back again and waiting the obligatory 10 weeks for it to > return it wasn't much better - turning the C32 helped but only gave me colour > with terrible dot crawl. I finally gave up and bought a Monitor and I've had > no problems since. Is display problem common? I dunno, but even with a monitor, I get nice striations down the screen ... somehow the clock's getting onto the signal I think. --Apparently-- Bruce recommends sticking 380ohm resistors on the signal outputs of the scart socket for Monitor use... but I'll leave that to you. Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 13:52:21 1995 From: goringgn Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 13:51:44 +0100 Message-Id: <2093.9506201251@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 225 Lines: 5 Simple, I find the cure-all is kicking the power-pack or tipping it on it's side for any problem. Including the weird one that's developed recently where-by the display goes all compressed/wonky/off-colour/corrupted. Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 14:31:34 1995 From: Colin G Piggot Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 13:53:42 BST Message-Id: <10785.9506201253@pasta.st-andrews.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 417 Lines: 10 > Simple, I find the cure-all is kicking the power-pack or tipping it on it's > side for any problem. Including the weird one that's developed recently where-by >the display goes all compressed/wonky/off-colour/corrupted. Yeap, when i first got my sam i had to kick the PSU to make the UHF work, then every time i used it had to be kicked more and more. Solution - I moved to SCART and got another PSU. Colin P. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 14:43:00 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <8802.9506201331@cezanne.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 14:31:30 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <9506201015.AA04917@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jun 20, 95 12:15:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 561 Lines: 18 To Quote Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk : > My Sam has turned into a black-and-white one. :-( > > Previously I have been able to make it spring back into colour by twiddling > C32, but now no amount of fiddling seems to make any difference. > > Any suggestions as to what I should try next? (Preferably one that doesn't > involve an oscilloscope or dismantling the Sam into 1000 spare parts.) Mine did ths ages ago. I sent it off to pbt and *I think* they ended up replacing one of the chips (Video chip?) Or something. (Gee, that was useful huh?) ....@/ From imc Tue Jun 20 14:48:53 1995 Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 14:48:53 BST In-Reply-To: <8802.9506201331@cezanne.ecs.soton.ac.uk>; from "Tim Paveley" at Jun 20, 95 2:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 592 Lines: 15 On Tue, 20 Jun 1995 14:31:30 +0100 (BST), Tim Paveley said: > Mine did ths ages ago. I sent it off to pbt and *I think* they ended up > replacing one of the chips (Video chip?) Who or what is pbt? My bet is on the oscillator circuit containing the 4.43MHz crystal (which is a shame as I haven't got an oscilloscope and wouldn't have a clue how to fix it even it turned out to be that). Is my information wrong or is this circuit a kludge? My info says that the video chip expects either a 8.9 or a 17.7 MHz clock (can't remember which), whereas the crystal is in fact just 4.43MHz. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 15:16:02 1995 Message-Id: From: Mr Andrew M Gale Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 13:56:34 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199506201216.OAA19907@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> from "Simon Cooke" at Jun 20, 95 01:15:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 323 Lines: 13 > > Get an old CUB monitor, and view it through that? > > I assume that you're using the SAM with a telly to get this problem? > > Simon I have a CUB monitor, and despite it only having 8 colours, it gives a very nice display indeed - and at 60UKP for a monitor, BBC B and two disc drives, it was a bargain too! -AG From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 15:52:01 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <9162.9506201407@cezanne.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 15:07:03 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <9506201348.AA05368@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jun 20, 95 03:48:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 384 Lines: 12 To mis(?)Quote Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk : > On Tue, 20 Jun 1995 14:31:30 +0100 (BST), Tim Paveley said: > > Mine did ths ages ago. I sent it off to pbt and *I think* they ended up > > replacing one of the chips (Video chip?) > Who or what is pbt? P.B.T. Electronics. At some point they were in charge of doing all SamCo's repairs and stuff that were under guarentee Tim ....@/ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 15:55:07 1995 From: David Zambonini To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 15:23:25 GMT Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-Id: <32FF0E01F0D@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 566 Lines: 13 Hmmm... it would appear that the number of problems with the SAM is on the increase recently. I suspect a plot by the world governments to bring down the SAM using hidden EMP stations..... :) Seriously, though, my SAM was purchased within the first two months of production, and I've never had a single problem with it. Do you think that some of these problems may be attributed to local power fluctuations and atmospheric conditions, such as an increased level of salt water? Unfortunately, I haven't got a clue how to cure the condition, though. DMZ === From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 17:11:03 1995 From: Tim Paveley Message-Id: <9596.9506201457@cezanne.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 15:57:03 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <32FF0E01F0D@physx1s.cf.ac.uk> from "David Zambonini" at Jun 20, 95 03:23:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 478 Lines: 15 To Quote David Zambonini : > Hmmm... it would appear that the number of problems with the SAM is > on the increase recently. I suspect a plot by the world governments > to bring down the SAM using hidden EMP stations..... :) > > Seriously, though, my SAM was purchased within the first two months > of production, and I've never had a single problem with it. Do you Estimated component life: >5 Years. My Sam was 5 late Feb. I do hope this isn't a bad sign. Tim ....@/ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 17:30:26 1995 Message-Id: <199506201527.RAA21316@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 16:30:01 +0100 (BST) Cc: simonc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <9506201348.AA05368@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jun 20, 95 03:48:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 612 Lines: 14 > On Tue, 20 Jun 1995 14:31:30 +0100 (BST), Tim Paveley said: > My bet is on the oscillator circuit containing the 4.43MHz crystal (which > is a shame as I haven't got an oscilloscope and wouldn't have a clue how > to fix it even it turned out to be that). > > Is my information wrong or is this circuit a kludge? My info says that the > video chip expects either a 8.9 or a 17.7 MHz clock (can't remember which), > whereas the crystal is in fact just 4.43MHz. I'd expect it to be more a case of the signal getting damped somewhere than being at the wrong freq -- IIRC, the xtal /should/ be 4.43MHz. Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 18:41:35 1995 From: P.A.Finn-SE2@cs.bham.ac.uk Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 16:23:45 BST Message-Id: <28263.9506201523@hobbes.cs.bham.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... In-Reply-To: <9506201348.AA05368@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> X-Mailer: [XMailTool v3.1.2] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 910 Lines: 20 I got my first SAM xmas 1989 and on boxing day I was about to show it off to some mates when it went B&W. I was really pissed about this, I tried everything to get the colour back but nothing worked. I rang MGT a few days later and they said it must be the modulator, so I sent back my power supply and got a new one..... yup it was still b&w. By this time I was really pissed so I told them to send me a new SAM & psu, but they gave me the 'this is not company policy' shit. In the end I hassled them so much they arranged for 'Business Post' to pick up my SAM at the same time as giving me a new one, and it worked.... *except* that I get horrible streaky lines running over the screen when certain colour combinations are used. I couldn't be arsed complaining again (it was about Feburary at this point), so I just put up with getting a huge headache every time I used my SAM on a tv. Life Sucks! Paul. From imc Tue Jun 20 18:45:50 1995 Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 18:45:50 BST In-Reply-To: <199506201527.RAA21316@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no>; from "Simon Cooke" at Jun 20, 95 4:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 780 Lines: 17 On Tue, 20 Jun 1995 16:30:01 +0100 (BST), Simon Cooke said: > I'd expect it to be more a case of the signal getting damped somewhere > than being at the wrong freq -- IIRC, the xtal /should/ be 4.43MHz. Yes but suppose the chip _were_ to require 8.86 instead of 4.43 (so that it can divide it. Don't ask me why, but that's what my data says). Then the circuit would probably still work, with the xtal resonating at its first harmonic instead of its fundamental frequency, but it would be rather more unstable than with an 8.86 MHz crystal. [My data is for the MC1377P, whereas the thing in the Sam says MC13077P, so there may be a difference. The circuits look pretty similar though.] But there may still be a much simpler explanation, if only someone can provide it. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 21 06:26:11 1995 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 05:55:01 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <9354@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 399 Lines: 11 Well, I guess the problem is on the main PCB then, I was going to suggest a Greenweld replacement PSUm but if the composite is duff too, this won;t work. I wonder if the crystal is duff? This would certainly screw it up! If its drifted, it could still be working but some sets would be able to cope, while others not. It would explain why it seems OK to the fixers. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From imc Wed Jun 21 11:31:14 1995 Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 11:31:14 BST In-Reply-To: <9354@bgserv.demon.co.uk>; from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jun 21, 95 5:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 2352 Lines: 68 On Wed, 21 Jun 1995 05:55:01 GMT, Brian Gaff Sam Dept. said: > I wonder if the crystal is duff? This > would certainly screw it up! If its drifted, it could still be > working but some sets would be able to cope, while others not. It could be that. How can one test a crystal? Or, what are the chances that the trimmer is to blame? BTW I had it the wrong way round yesterday (not that it matters). I have a data sheet for the MC13077, whereas the one in the Sam says MC1377P. The 1377 seems to have different pinouts from the 13077. Would anyone know what else is different about it? The 13077 has four different ways of generating the subcarrier. Each one generates a 17.734475 MHz signal, which is 4xFsc where Fsc is the subcarrier frequency of 4.4336MHz. / ___||______|#|_______pin 8 1. Oscillator free run with crystal _|_ || |#| ___pin 9 - / _|_ 5-25 pf xtal - 17.73MHz / ___||______|#|_______pin 8 _|_ || |#| - / 5-25 pf xtal 17.73MHz 2. Oscillator phase lock with crystal to subcarrier reference subcarrier 1000pf reference input____||__pin 9 || 220R 17.73 MHz____||_---____pin 8 drive || --- | 3. Direct drive of oscilator with 1000pf === 150 pf 4xFsc source | +----pin 9 _|_ - ___________|#|_______pin 8 _|_ |#| - 17.73MHz resonator 4. Oscillator phase lock with resonator to subcarrier reference subcarrier 1000pf reference input____||__pin 9 || I have no idea why I just typed that in. However, I suppose the Sam must use something of the form of (1) since that's the easiest. Is it possible that the 1377 also requires a 17.73MHz but they put in a 4.43MHz one because they are more common? Would that kind of thing work anyway? It occurs to me that one reason for having a 4xFsc oscillator is so that you can generate a signal whose phase differs by 90 degrees to encode the R-Y signal. [conspiracy theory: could it be that the Sams that have worked perfectly actually do have 17.73MHz crystals in them? :-) ] imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 21 13:13:43 1995 From: goringgn Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 13:08:38 +0100 Message-Id: <19820.9506211208@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 96 Lines: 4 Hey! Is it just me or is this thread beginning to look like lectures, aka Hard Work? :) Graham From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 22 09:41:56 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... Date: Thu, 22 Jun 95 09:38:00 PDT Message-Id: <2FE99C5C@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 42 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1607 Lines: 42 > I got my first SAM xmas 1989 and on boxing day I was about > to show it off to some mates when it went B&W. I was really > pissed about this, I tried everything to get the colour back > but nothing worked. I rang MGT a few days later and they said > it must be the modulator, so I sent back my power supply and > got a new one..... yup it was still b&w. > > By this time I was really pissed so I told them to send me > a new SAM & psu, but they gave me the 'this is not company > policy' shit. In the end I hassled them so much they arranged > for 'Business Post' to pick up my SAM at the same time as > giving me a new one, and it worked.... *except* that I get > horrible streaky lines running over the screen when certain > colour combinations are used. I couldn't be arsed complaining > again (it was about Feburary at this point), so I just put up > with getting a huge headache every time I used my SAM on a > tv. Life Sucks! This is the crap that I got only my Sam died *just* before MGT went down, leaving me Sam-less for two and a half months - I had to battle it out with Touche-Ross (the receivers) just to get my kit back. Bastards. Currently, my Sam has no UHF modulator, and the disc drive is getting shaky, the audio has unbelievable noise on it, the colours drift on my bastard monitor, it's over 5 years old BUT THE THING THAT PISSES ME OFF THE MOST IS THAT THE LETTER HAS RUBBED OFF MY 'A' KEY ARRGGHH!!!!! Dan. Dan Doore - Operations Head Pod & Dogsbody 'No job too trivial' --- SMTP:d.j.doore@lmu.ac.uk MailSig 1.6 - A mind is a terrible thing to ugg.. I forogt.. > Paul. > From imc Thu Jun 22 10:44:21 1995 Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 22 Jun 95 10:44:21 BST In-Reply-To: <2FE99C5C@courier.lmu.ac.uk>; from "Doore, Dan [MIS]" at Jun 22, 95 9:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 772 Lines: 16 On Thu, 22 Jun 95 09:38:00 PDT, Doore, Dan [MIS] said: > Currently, my Sam has no UHF modulator, and the disc drive is > getting shaky, the audio has unbelievable noise on it, the colours > drift on my bastard monitor, it's over 5 years old BUT THE THING > THAT PISSES ME OFF THE MOST IS THAT THE LETTER HAS > RUBBED OFF MY 'A' KEY ARRGGHH!!!!! Well the only thing wrong with mine is that it is in monochrome (well, that and the fact that the Escape key broke off and had to be put back on with Araldite). And I am still no nearer to fixing it than I was before! For some unknown reason I tested C32. It turns out to be a 5-60pf trimmer (that works correctly). The only thing I could think to do with the crystal was to measure its capacitance. It was 4pf. :-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 22 11:06:12 1995 From: frodet@www1.cern.ch (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9506221000.AA08814@wwwlab.cern.ch> Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 12:00:33 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9506220944.AA09725@boothp1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jun 22, 95 11:44:21 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 736 Lines: 19 > Well the only thing wrong with mine is that it is in monochrome (well, that > and the fact that the Escape key broke off and had to be put back on with > Araldite). And I am still no nearer to fixing it than I was before! > > For some unknown reason I tested C32. It turns out to be a 5-60pf trimmer > (that works correctly). The only thing I could think to do with the > crystal was to measure its capacitance. It was 4pf. :-) What is this? My SAM has worked perfectly for more than.... *counting* 4 years - close to 5. In fact both of them...:) Oh...only problem is wear on the keyboard. -Frode -- Frode Tenneboe, ECP/PT, CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland frodet@www.cern.ch http://www.himolde.no/~frodet From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 22 15:33:58 1995 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 14:44:13 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <9375@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 201 Lines: 9 Hmm, this serious problem of the letters rubbing off keys. Picture varnish applied when new is a good fix... I am sure I could persuade someone to send me an A keu... Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jun 22 15:48:36 1995 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 14:46:12 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <9376@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 295 Lines: 10 Well, I have a friend who is quite happy to look at SAM faults. He is technically competent, but have not worked on SAMs before. THAT is the catch 22, how do you get experience. He of course also needs paying as he is out of a job at the moment... such is like. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jun 26 15:16:25 1995 Message-Id: <29102.9506261359@rs6-233.cls-4.bcc.ac.uk> Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 14:59:03 +0100 (BST) From: Mr Keith Turner In-Reply-To: <9376@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jun 22, 95 02:46:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 344 Lines: 11 Hallo Brian, Would your friend who repairs computers take on a three hour desoldering / soldering job to fit a new diskette drive to my Sam? How much would he charge? I bought the Diskette drive upgrade kit (94a?) from Bob Brenchley but decided it was too hard a job for me with my minimal soldering experience. / Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 16:22:47 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <29102.9506261359@rs6-233.cls-4.bcc.ac.uk> from "Mr Keith Turner" at Jun 26, 95 02:59:03 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 609 Lines: 21 > > Hallo Brian, > Would your friend who repairs computers take on a three hour > desoldering / soldering job to fit a new diskette drive to my Sam? 3 hours to solder off a plug, solder on a new one and screw it all toghether? > > How much would he charge? I bought the Diskette drive upgrade kit > (94a?) from Bob Brenchley but decided it was too hard a job for me > with my minimal soldering experience. You need a minimum of a pump in addition to a solder iron. -Frode -- Frode Tenneboe, ECP/PT, CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland frodet@www.cern.ch http://www.himolde.no/~frodet From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 28 07:48:02 1995 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 06:01:16 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <9437@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I feel a bit off-colour today... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 185 Lines: 9 Change of Sam Drive.... What does Bob charge, I feel sure he could do it for less. The snag either way is the carriage costs. Where are you in the UK? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 28 14:51:35 1995 From: P.A.Finn-SE2@cs.bham.ac.uk Date: Wed, 28 Jun 95 14:44:00 BST Message-Id: <5978.9506281344@hobbes.cs.bham.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: HELP! X-Mailer: [XMailTool v3.1.2] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 551 Lines: 18 HELP! I've lost the unsubscribe info and I'm leaving uni today :-( Could someone please unsubscribe me from the list?? Hopefully I'll be getting a dial-up account over the summer so I'll probably see ya all soon. Paul. PS I got a 2:2 in Computer Science/Software Engineering and I'm well chuffed! *** *** *** *** *** --------------------- ****** *** *** *** | paf@cs.bham.ac.uk | *** *** *** *** *** --------------------- *** *** *** *** *** PUT YOUR FAITH IN A LOUD GUITAR From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jun 28 15:36:47 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: HELP! Date: Wed, 28 Jun 95 15:14:00 PDT Message-Id: <2FF1D431@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 71 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1884 Lines: 71 And here it is for all those sodding off forever, as for the rest, I will be around for about another year before I move on so see ya later. Dan. ------------ SUBSCRIBING =========== To subscribe to sam-users, send the following in the body (not the subject line) of an email message to "Majordomo@nvg.unit.no": subscribe sam-users This will subscribe the account from which you send the message to the sam-users list. 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HELP ==== To find out more about the automated server and the commands it understands, send the following command to "Majordomo@nvg.unit.no": help If you feel you need to reach a human, send email to sam-users-approval@nvg.unit.no Dan Doore - Operations Head Pod & Dogsbody 'No job too trivial' --- SMTP:d.j.doore@lmu.ac.uk MailSig 1.6 - Chalkboard: "I will not burp in class" From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 30 14:22:00 1995 From: goringgn Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:21:01 +0100 Message-Id: <17164.9506301321@sun.aston.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: And now I must leave... (sob sob sob sob sob) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2922 Lines: 58 Gotta go guys. Pity the course wasn't what I expected, but C'est la vie. I'll probably be getting I dial-up connection sometime, running off of my STE, so I'll see you all then. Although it's more likely that I'll see you at the next SAM and Speccy show, which'll probably be in November or October. A few parting messages to you people... Stefan D - I like UDG's, damn you! :) But I want to write a MODE 4 role playing game next. I am even considering using... gasp!... MACHINE CODE for some bits of it. And hey! Please get in touch with Martijn over those games sometime. I *hate* writing letters. Colin P - Thanks for the help on paging, it was invaluable. Love the Quazar surround, and if I get a bit richer I'll get one. After all, I have Almalthea (looking forward to, um, your game). Simon C - Thanks for the bundle of disks. Brightened up my life no-end. If you come across any more... don't hesitate to contact me. ;) Nigel K - So then? What next? We had DOS *ages* ago... what is your next project dare I ask? Ian C - Are you going to write anything SAM related in the near future? How about a really buffed-up version of Rockfall? David Z - And what are you writing, eh? Shoot 'em up or what? By the way, I liked the way you tried to avoid looming at the show. :) Dan D - And you! You've done sod all since FRED 51. Since you've got a big break now, howzabout writing some more of your fabby games? Tim P - I want to see EGGBuM 2, on my desk, tomorrow morning. And none of this "but it's humanly impossible to write a game in 1 day..." crap. If the boys at Binary Design could do it, so can you. Oh, and honest, I'll register it soon... (God, I feel so *dirty*) Steve T - Eh? And just WHAT have you been spending your time doing? Nothing, I'll warrant you lazy begger! (Just kidding, um, what HAVE you been doing?) Brian G - Keep up the fight against those binary posting buggers! Frode T - And what exactly did you last write on the SAM? And when? Colin M - I'll haunt your nightmares, Colin. And to the rest of you, who unlike the above miscreants actually DO something with their SAMs, enjoy the rest of University, hope you all do well in any exams you take and don't waste Uni like I did... Even if it IS a shit-load of fun... Well, I suppose I had better go now, leaving just a parting address as a subtle hint to you lazy lumps to write me lots of letters of support. I wonder what the REAL world is like... Graham Goring, 24 Park Road, Stratford Upon Avon, Warwickshire, CV37 OAT (01789) 299068 Thanks again for many wonderful and irrelevent threads worth of fun, Graham - Who's unsubscribing, loggin out, oh, and turning off the light as he leaves... Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo *sniff*... SLAP! Oh be a man for God's sake, Graham! From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 30 14:26:19 1995 From: Nigel J Kettlewell Message-Id: <23044.199506301323@tove.dcs.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: And now I must leave... (sob sob sob sob sob) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:23:46 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <17164.9506301321@sun.aston.ac.uk> from "goringgn" at Jun 30, 95 02:21:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 358 Lines: 14 > > Gotta go guys. Pity the course wasn't what I expected, but C'est la vie. > > A few parting messages to you people... > > Nigel K - So then? What next? We had DOS *ages* ago... what is your next > project dare I ask? Sorry guys, SAM is sitting in a drawer at home, and has been for quite a while. It was fun while it lasted, though. Nige From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 30 14:44:06 1995 From: frodet@www1.cern.ch (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9506301341.AA10534@wwwlab.cern.ch> Subject: Re: And now I must leave... (sob sob sob sob sob) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:41:58 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <17164.9506301321@sun.aston.ac.uk> from "goringgn" at Jun 30, 95 02:21:01 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 566 Lines: 20 Caio! If you'r slow enough you'll get this...if not.... > Frode T - And what exactly did you last write on the SAM? And when? Huh....My long term memory fails me from time to time. Another question is: "And what exactly dod you last write anything?" But perhaps...if _this_ person gets in touch :) > Colin M - I'll haunt your nightmares, Colin. Oh..I've got 3 days to finish my report.....HELP!!! -Frode Nightmares of his own... -- Frode Tenneboe, ECP/PT, CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland frodet@www.cern.ch http://www.himolde.no/~frodet From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 30 15:10:58 1995 From: "Doore, Dan [MIS]" To: sam-users Subject: RE: And now I must leave... (sob sob sob sob sob) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 15:07:00 PDT Message-Id: <2FF475C6@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Encoding: 19 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 504 Lines: 19 > Dan D - And you! You've done sod all since FRED 51. Since you've got a big > break now, howzabout writing some more of your fabby games? Big break? pah! I'm still working for most of it! I have a few things planned for when I get a bit more time but we will have to see. Seeya later matey, take care. Dan. Dan Doore - Operations Head Pod & Dogsbody 'No job too trivial' --- SMTP:d.j.doore@lmu.ac.uk MailSig 1.6 - "Beer! Now there's a temporary solution." - Homer in Homer's Odyssey From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 30 16:28:57 1995 Message-Id: <199506301526.RAA28658@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: And now I must leave... (sob sob sob sob sob) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 16:25:57 +0100 (BST) Cc: simonc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <17164.9506301321@sun.aston.ac.uk> from "goringgn" at Jun 30, 95 02:21:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 364 Lines: 9 > Simon C - Thanks for the bundle of disks. Brightened up my life no-end. If you > come across any more... don't hesitate to contact me. ;) Hey no problem -- erm, one thing though, I got a bundle back from Derek Morgan which looked suspiciously like the ones I sent you. Did you send them on to him? If so, do you want them back? :) Take care, Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 30 17:14:25 1995 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 16:50:08 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <9502@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: but who will row the boat? X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 197 Lines: 11 I see, long holiday time again eh? I suppose I talk to my self now then?..... Brian Just remember the motto of the private sector... A stitch in time is over budget... -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From imc Fri Jun 30 17:15:38 1995 Subject: Re: but who will row the boat? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 17:15:38 BST In-Reply-To: <9502@bgserv.demon.co.uk>; from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jun 30, 95 4:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 188 Lines: 7 On Fri, 30 Jun 1995 16:50:08 GMT, Brian Gaff Sam Dept. said: > I see, long holiday time again eh? I suppose I talk to my self > now then?..... That's a sign of madness you know. :-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 30 17:44:56 1995 Message-Id: <9506301616.AA19784@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman (Dr Kid) Subject: Re: but who will row the boat? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 18:16:45 METDST In-Reply-To: <9502@bgserv.demon.co.uk>; from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jun 30, 95 4:50 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 173 Lines: 7 Its Ok Brian some of us went to University many years ago (1988 to be precise) and just never left :) talk away - I'm all ears (well I will be after the weekend) Allan --