From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 2 10:02:07 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:36:16 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9601020936.AA10724@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Component help X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1091 Lines: 35 > Hi, > > I received a letter from Edwin Blink a week ago (yes from Thailand) in which > among other things he wrote that he was only able to get a black&white > picture due to him having blown up some of the colour circuitry in his SAM > (along with his ASIC a few years back). > > He asked me for the specs on a number of components. The problem is that my > copy of the technical manual is not that readable and I can't find all the > components he is referring to. The same is mine. That is a thing that has bothered me for a while - why did MGT sell something that looks like it has been copied with technology from the late 60's? Does anybody have a PS-file of the schematics? That would be very welcome. > > Could somebody please check to see if what I have written down is correct (I > don't want to blow Edwin's SAM up even more)? I wish I could help you, but I'm affraid my copy is as readable as yours. > > L2: DL390nS (DL398nS??) > L3: 10uH (what is u? another why of writing mu?) [del..] > I hope one of you can help me. It could be the crystal. X2? -Frode From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 3 14:06:10 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 96 14:49:05 PST From: Stefan Drissen Subject: FRED 64 To: SAM users X-Mailer: Chameleon ENGP1, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3268 Lines: 76 Yaaay!!! Finally FRED 64 popped through my letterbox (yes today, January 3rd! - not quite before christmas in my books). A rather corking issue it is too. It opens up with a lovely menu/scrolly/music by David "god this coding is easy - yawn" Zambonini. The first proggy on the disc is a rewrite of Paul Horridges brilliant GI_MON (the only disassembler I dare touch, SC_MON is crap) which has a few nice improvements. My major gripe with the first one being that the desktop was a bit naff - ie you put your calculator in the top right corner of the screen only to find that it has sneaked back to its original position when you call it up again - has been fixed. You can now also do some simple assembling with it and you can turn the stack pointer checking off so that the thing doesn't complain if you play with the SP. Great stuff! In slot E is Tringle, a nice-looking shoot em up written in SCADS - nothing really original - nuff said. Slot F features Cookie's Comet2Ascii program (which we all already had didn't we???) Next up is ):?( (I think that was it, Matt) with a SAM C demo. Very, very basic. Just a simple scrolly, some nice flashing fractals and tunes from previous FREDs. The effect is quite nice - but unfortunately SAM C is NOT the language to use for writing a demo. Simon Cooke blabbers on in "The Interview" - a very interesting read (aargh 40 odd pages - I think that even beats the crap out of the length of my interview - but then I had to talk into a silly microphone all alone in my room) The fabulous new e-tunes player does its stuff again in slot I with a number of unnamed tunes by Rob Pain which are all very dancey -> rather cool. Rob is getting better and better - a possible new Andy Monk perhaps? Jellytext (slot J of course) is brilliant. Apart from the nice slam at Statues of Ice (10 excuses why Retros isn't finished yet -> number 10. At least it will be finished before SOI). Andrew Collier gets a massive slam (the outcast :( - I'm not sure were that came from though) and David Leadbelly can be executed in the next installment of SAM Street (SAM Street has gone interactive!) E-Gatherer let's you put your E-tunes into and out of the "new format" for the new E-Tunes player. Appropriately in Slot L there's the moduLes. A rather groovy tune (Prophecy3 by ???). The tune shows what simple good samples arranged in a cool fashion can do. NO EFFECTS are used whatsoever. I was thinking wow! Why did I write a player to handle all those effects when tunes sound cool without 'em. Promptly I loaded up "Emphutured" by C-Quence/Gods and "A Kind of Love" by Zulu&Grey/Rebels and once again realized why the new mod player was needed. M contains a new advert by MDL soft and the same old boring FORMAT and FRED ones. N is a moving Stereogram. Indeed, something moves on the screen - a lot of pixels. Sorry, but I just can't seem to get the knack of looking at the picture properly. Well, that covers that. FRED 64 was a rather brilliant issue. Can 65 improve on this? L8R Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 3 14:16:43 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:17:36 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9601031417.AA11715@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: FRED 64 X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 189 Lines: 10 [warble deleted] Looks like I have to resubscribe to Fred then...perhaps. Let's finish one thing first. -Frode plondering back to work... > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 3 19:09:12 1996 From: tsp93ma@soton.ac.uk Message-Id: <199601031908.TAA06296@vision.soton.ac.uk> Subject: The Hard Drive To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (Sam Coupe Mailing List) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 19:08:33 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 288 Lines: 14 Any one want to give me the low down on the hard drive then? Whats the DOS like? How's it for compatiblity? etc, etc. Oh yeah, happy new year! ....@/ -- Tim Paveley - Maths with Computer Science - University of Southampton Sam Coupe Web Pages: http://www.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93ma/Coupe/ From imc Fri Jan 5 16:38:59 1996 Subject: Re: The Accelerator To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 16:38:59 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Geoff Winkless" at Dec 20, 95 1:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1465 Lines: 28 On Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:35:52 +0000, Geoff Winkless said: > I would say that on average you could get the instruction mapping down to > around 2 t-states average, then one or two instructions for the actual > execution. Obviously there would be other overheads but I'd say that a > really fast well-written piece of code, running on a 35MHz 7500 would beat > or certainly match the speed of an 18MHz z380. If you think that then it might be worth doing. The flags really are a pain to emulate though (see xz80) and I think that your figure of about 4 ARM instructions per Z80 instruction (including the decoding) is pushing it rather, especially if you have to extract the 8-bit registers whenever you emulate an 8-bit operation. Not having exact Z80 instruction lengths might be an irritation, although not that much because ordinary Z80 programs that depend on these won't work anyway and programs written for the accelerator could use exact ARM instruction lengths instead. Whether you implement the undocumented flags and the R register depends on how many games use them (probably hardly any for the flags but a significant number for the R register). > Anyone any more objections? There are, of course, lots and lots of Z80 programmers who have never seen an ARM before, myself included, and we would for that reason be excluded from writing programs for the accelerator (unless, I suppose, it came with an ARM programming manual and an assembler). imc From imc Fri Jan 5 17:00:30 1996 Subject: Re: sam-support To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 17:00:30 MET In-Reply-To: <9512220826.AA04136@asmal.edh-net>; from "Frode Tenneboe" at Dec 22, 95 9:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 553 Lines: 19 On Fri, 22 Dec 1995 09:26:12 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: > Am I the last still on? I'm still here! :-) > And how about the C-compiler? As far as I know, it is useless... I took some C programs home because my brother has Sam C and was told that there was no way any of them would compile because: - the angle brackets in "#include" are not supported - it doesn't allow single-letter global variable names - it requires lots of spaces where standard C does not. And this was after I had already removed references to long and float. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 6 14:11:05 1996 Message-Id: From: geoffw@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff Winkless) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 13:22:16 +0000 In-Reply-To: drissen -- "Component help" (Dec 26, 12:29pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Component help Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 155 Lines: 9 On Dec 26, 12:29pm in "Component help", warbled: ] L3: 10uH (what is u? another why of writing mu?) Yes. Since ascii has no mu character. G. -- Geoff From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 6 22:14:26 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 96 23:05:09 PST From: Stefan Drissen Subject: RE: The Hard Drive To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1826 Lines: 54 >Any one want to give me the low down on the hard drive then? Yeah! Me too! >Whats the DOS like? I'm not too worried about the DOS, there's enough of us here who can improve that if it needs to be improved (which it definitely does if what I've heard about it is true). >How's it for compatiblity? Compatibility with all your current SAM programs is 0.00% (as far as I can tell), since you need to do a CALL x;"LOAD x" or something like that. So you can't simply say DEVICE HD1 and then let all disc accesses from then on refer to your nice little hard disc. Updating your current programs to use the current dos should not be a problem. Unfortunatley all the commercial (and PD) programs which use machine code to do their disk stuff will need some form of patch. Since the new dos requires 2 pages instead of 1 this may cause problems with a program like SAMpaint. Despite all this maybe somewhat negative criticism, I definitley want one! So I should be picking one up at the next Gloucester show and then write a new loader for the mod player.... >etc, etc. I just hope that the hardware side is good enough. What's the maximum loading speed, does the interface contain a buffer - this would be really nice to allow massive music files on the HD. Simply issue a read sector command to the interface, you keep playing your current data, by the time that has all been used the next sector is already sitting in the buffer. >Oh yeah, happy new year! Likewise! >-- >Tim Paveley - Maths with Computer Science - University of Southampton > >Sam Coupe Web Pages: >http://www.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93ma/Coupe/ > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 6 23:02:23 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 96 23:17:27 PST From: Stefan Drissen Subject: Re: Component help To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 442 Lines: 22 >On Dec 26, 12:29pm in "Component help", warbled: >] L3: 10uH (what is u? another why of writing mu?) > >Yes. Since ascii has no mu character. What are the proper mu symbols doing in there then? (at least they look like them). >G. > >-- >Geoff > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 6 23:02:29 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 96 00:00:44 PST From: Stefan Drissen Subject: Re: Component help To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 483 Lines: 21 >On Dec 26, 12:29pm in "Component help", warbled: >] L3: 10uH (what is u? another why of writing mu?) > >Yes. Since ascii has no mu character. How about answering the main question though (ie the missing bits so that I can send Edwin the info and the latest gossip) :) >G. > >-- >Geoff > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 8 11:38:21 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:39:56 +0000 Subject: Hello, happy new year Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <2704A8B379E@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1351 Lines: 29 .. and all that. I hope you all had an ace christmas. I finally got round to bringing my SAM up to Edinburgh, any stuff anyone wants me to do? ;) Erm, I'd like to pop some stuff onto ftp.nvg.unit.no, anyone like to tell me the 'correct' way to go about this? (presumably upload to 'incoming' - what about filename conventions, etc?) Nothing special, well, pretty crappy actually. But I may as well give other people the chance to see my stuff. Cheers, _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Dave Hooper - 1st Year Computer Science & Maths BSc | | At the University Of Edinburgh, Scotland | | email: d.c.hooper@sms.ed.ac.uk | | smail: why bother? | | www: http://www.geopages.com/Athens.1436 | | ####### UNDER CONSTRUCTION !! ####### | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From imc Mon Jan 8 12:45:09 1996 Subject: Re: Component help To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 12:45:09 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Stefan Drissen" at Dec 26, 95 12:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1686 Lines: 48 On Tue, 26 Dec 95 12:29:57 PST, Stefan Drissen said: > He asked me for the specs on a number of components. The problem is that my > copy of the technical manual is not that readable and I can't find all the > components he is referring to. > Could somebody please check to see if what I have written down is correct (I > don't want to blow Edwin's SAM up even more)? I don't have a copy of the technical manual, but I looked inside my Sam to get most of the answers. Unfortunately I couldn't find the resistors because a lot of the component numbers are printed underneath the resistors where I can't see them (most of the values should however be selected from the following: 220R 1K 2K2 2K7 3K3 10K 47K). > L2: DL390nS (DL398nS??) 390 nanosecond delay line. In case you are curious, the luma is passed through this to make sure it comes out at the same time as the chroma, because the latter is passed through a band pass filter. > L3: 10uH (what is u? another why of writing mu?) > L4: 10uH Correct. They are both 10uH where u=micro. > C32: can't find this one either > C36: 22mF ) > C37: 22mF ) (these m's could be u's) > C38: 22mF ) > C43: 1nF > C47: 22mF ) C32 is a trimmer in series with the crystal. I measured it once and as far as I remember I think it came out to 60pF. C43 says on it '102J' which I interpreted to mean 1nF (before I saw you had written that as well). All the other capacitors in the above list are 22 uF 50V ones. > D17: where is this one? (I found D1-D16) It is the same as D1-D16, that is, 1N4148. > N6: BC547 > N7: BC547 > N9: another lost one (N1-N8 were easy). All three of them say C547B, which I interpret to mean BC547. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 8 23:35:02 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 00:19:29 +0100 (GMT) From: David Gommeren To: David Gommeren Cc: Michiel Koolen , Sam List , Dennis Lodewijks , Ro-Disc , ANT Sales , Martin van Spanje , ft , Desk vof , Gerard de Vries , Simon Cooke , Hans van Gink , Chris Gommeren , Hans Gommeren Original-Cc: Michiel Koolen , Sam List , Dennis Lodewijks , Ro-Disc , ANT Sales , Martin van Spanje , Frode Tennebø , Desk vof , Gerard de Vries , Simon Cooke , Hans van Gink , Chris Gommeren , Hans Gommeren Pp-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding Cc line Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 0.99] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 211 Lines: 11 Hi to you all, I finally have my new internet account: gommerd@interpac.be (hey, that's not my fault!) Just in case I made an error while entering my new address: Sorry David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 10 07:53:54 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 07:48:47 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <12794@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: EMC regs X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 230 Lines: 9 Anyone care to suggest a cheap way to make SAM pass the regs? Otherwise I think anyone selling hardware will be liable for the 5000 pound fine if a disgruntled customer moans to Trading Standards. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 10 09:09:46 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 10:07:44 PST From: Stefan Drissen Subject: Re: Component help To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 124 Lines: 13 [lots of useful info deleted] > >imc > Thanks a lot Ian, most appreciated! Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 10 10:02:03 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:03:07 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9601101003.AA25471@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: EMC regs X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 236 Lines: 9 > Anyone care to suggest a cheap way to make SAM pass the regs? > Otherwise I think anyone selling hardware will be liable for the > 5000 pound fine if a disgruntled customer moans to Trading > Standards. Wrap it in lead :-) -Frode From imc Wed Jan 10 11:44:00 1996 Subject: Re: Component help To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 11:44:00 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Stefan Drissen" at Jan 10, 96 10:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 381 Lines: 9 On Wed, 10 Jan 96 10:07:44 PST, Stefan Drissen said: > Thanks a lot Ian, most appreciated! If you are intersted you might be able to get a data sheet for the MC1377P that's used in the Sam video circuit from Motorola. Their home page is at http://motserv.indirect.com. You can fill in web forms to request a fax or a mailshot (I tried the fax but it hasn't worked so far). imc From imc Wed Jan 10 14:03:14 1996 Subject: Motorola fax service To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 14:03:14 MET X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 249 Lines: 9 Well apparently it did work after all as the fax is just coming through - 20 pages worth. After that I should know all there is to know about converting RGB into composite video... :-) imc (and to think Maplin would charge 80p for the same data) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 10 15:12:56 1996 Message-Id: X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:42:46 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: EMC regs Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 866 Lines: 23 >> Anyone care to suggest a cheap way to make SAM pass the regs? >> Otherwise I think anyone selling hardware will be liable for the >> 5000 pound fine if a disgruntled customer moans to Trading >> Standards. > >Wrap it in lead :-) Do these apply to all new machines manufactured, or just newly designed ones? If so, how about applying to the EC for a grant to get it done? Bloody idiots, enforcing these things on people so that only the big companies can afford to manufacture anything any more. Sad bastards. Simon -!- Mains Hum: A sine of the times??? +- Email:Simon.Cooke@umist.ac.uk ---- Fidonet: 2:250/124.2 (Simon Cooke) -+ | Snail:1 Dovey Close, Astley, Tyldesley, Manchester, M29 7NP, UK | | Tel: (01942) 886084 Fax: (01942) 886084 (ring voice first to confirm!)| +- WWW: http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc ----------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 10 15:43:35 1996 Message-Id: X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:42:48 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Termite Rename... etc etc Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4176 Lines: 83 Hi everyone, Well, because people pointed out a while back, (and because I've found out more about it), I've decided that rather than risk the wrath of the people who make the TERMiTE software on various machines, I'm going to call Termite a different name - to be precise, Photon. BTW: it's coming on rather well. Now implemented is: Local Echo, Word Wrap, Sound on/off, Flash-on-beep on/off, autodial box, and a good portion of the TUI (Textual User Interface). It all looks very much like Terminate on the PC at the moment (deliberate, cos a lot of people like the way that Terminate works...), and it's definitely piling on the features - some lots more advanced than the PC version of Terminate! (eg. Terminate on the PC lets you press ALT-Y to initiate a split-screen talk session with the remote system. It does this by transmitting an EMSI Talk request, and waits for the acknowledge. If it doesn't get on, it just gives you split screen anyway and to hell with the remote system. PHOTON lets you press EDIT-Y, which sends the EMSI talk request, and waits for an acknowledge... if it doesn't get one, it sends the [6n code, and waits for a reply of the form [;R (the ANSI cursor position report sequence). If it gets one, it will draw a split-screen chat window on the remote system's screen, and do all the hard work of drawing a split-screen window on BOTH system simultaneously. If it doesn't get an [6n code, it enters DUMB TTY chat mode, which does all of its stuff via CR's, LF's and Backspaces... it's reminiscent of some MUD or MOO clients (TUSH is a good example), in that both you and the remote user can type simultaneously on an editline, while text appears on the line above. It doesn't look too good at 2400 baud, but hey, it works ;) First off both you and the remote user are asked to supply an 8 character user name (guess why? surely this routine won't be a part of the 3-line [+ sysop] BBS software I'm going to write after PHOTON's finished? *grins*). When you've both supplied a name, the system enters the chat server... You see something like this on the screen: Please enter your name: >Si_ < *Remote user "Someone" has logged in* *** START CHAT SESSION *** Someone : So this is the realtime chat session Simon > Yep, looks like it... Someone : Not bad is it? ========> No, quite good on all accounts Your lines start with your name, and a ">". The other person's lines start with their name and a ":"... and you can type as fast as you like - it all keeps up, even at 38400 baud (in fact, a null-modem connection between two SAMs,both at 38400 baud works absolutely brilliantly, but it won't lose characters even at 300 baud!... might look a bit strange when it's redrawing your edit line though.) Oh, and it auto word wraps, so you don't have to make sure that your editline goes off the edge of the screen. *grins* As you can tell, I'm pretty proud of it all.. Johnathan Taylor said of it the other night "OOOOH! That's Pretty!" when I did a long-distance test. It's also a lot more sophisticated than when I tried out the first version with Dave Whitmore on his BBS. :) The TUI's working quite well... in editlines you can press CTRL-C to copy stuff to the editor clipboard, CTRL-X to cut it, CTRL-V to paste... selection is done using SHIFT+CURSORS, and DELETE will remove a selected area... SYMBOL+LEFT is the equivalent of Home, SYMBOL+RIGHT is the equivalent of End, CTRL+LEFT moves one word to the left, CTRL+RIGHT moves one word to the right... and in other things, SYMBOL+UP is pageup, SYMBOL+DOWN is page down, and SYMBOL+I toggles insert/overwrite mode... Ummm... I think that's all the new news I've got for you now. ;) Anybody who has a Comms interface and wants to Beta test the current version for me, please get in touch. Simon -!- Mains Hum: A sine of the times??? +- Email:Simon.Cooke@umist.ac.uk ---- Fidonet: 2:250/124.2 (Simon Cooke) -+ | Snail:1 Dovey Close, Astley, Tyldesley, Manchester, M29 7NP, UK | | Tel: (01942) 886084 Fax: (01942) 886084 (ring voice first to confirm!)| +- WWW: http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc ----------------------------------+ From imc Wed Jan 10 16:20:56 1996 Subject: Re: EMC regs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 16:20:56 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 10, 96 2:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 396 Lines: 9 On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:42:46 +0000, Simon Cooke said: > Bloody idiots, enforcing these things on people so that only the big > companies can afford to manufacture anything any more. But as a radio listener I can see why they are doing it. It's impossible at the moment to listen to the radio at a checkout line in a supermarket because of all the EM radiation from the computerised tills. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 11 18:04:55 1996 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 11:58:06 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: What time is it? To: SAM users X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 759 Lines: 22 This one's for Ian really, notice anything different? Finally I've moved from California to The Netherlands. ;) The helpdesk of my internet provider was not able to give me an answer on how to fix my timezone even though the Netmanage Chameleon package is supplied by them for their users. So I contacted Netmanage and they came up with a very simple fix: just put SET TZ=MET in your AUTOEXEC.BAT file and bingo! Just shows how good the helpdesk is doesn't it? Sure this was all of subject, but it was a certain member of this group who it was bothering. L8R Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 11 18:05:07 1996 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 16:42:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Daniel James Doore X-Sender: iq4d4385@jaffle-fddi To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: EMC regs In-Reply-To: <9601101520.AA05049@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 942 Lines: 21 On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > But as a radio listener I can see why they are doing it. It's impossible > at the moment to listen to the radio at a checkout line in a supermarket > because of all the EM radiation from the computerised tills. Yeah, but you shouldn't be so anti-social as to wear a walkman in the supermarket 'cos you'll miss out on all those 'special offers'.. :) I don't reckon this regulation will seriously effect those items already sold - can it? If so how the hell would it be policed? It would be a nightmare comparable of that which is to come with the new UK Channel Five. Dan. +========================================================================+ | Dan Doore - Ex-Head Pod And Dogsbody | D.J.Doore-iq4d4385@lmu.ac.uk | | WARNING!! Only read every so often, so you might have to wait a bit. | +========================================================================+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 11 18:22:38 1996 From: tsp93ma@soton.ac.uk Message-Id: <199601111804.SAA27590@vision.soton.ac.uk> Subject: EMC & QL's To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (Sam Coupe Mailing List) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:04:46 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 337 Lines: 12 EMC Regs - My mate complains coz whenever I use my Sam it screws up his radio reception in the room next door. QL's - Just been given one, free, any idea where I can get a Monitor lead for it. ....@/ -- Tim Paveley - Maths with Computer Science - University of Southampton Sam Coupe Web Pages: http://www.soton.ac.uk/~tsp93ma/Coupe/ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 11 18:39:10 1996 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 19:32:38 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9601111832.AA27424@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: EMC & QL's X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 387 Lines: 13 > EMC Regs - My mate complains coz whenever I use my Sam it screws up his > radio reception in the room next door. Mine corrupts the TV signal from quite a distance..... > > QL's - Just been given one, free, any idea where I can get a Monitor > lead for it. Does it have a monitor signal? I can only remember ordinary UHF connector... QL people on comp.sys.sinclair though. -Frode From imc Thu Jan 11 19:22:21 1996 Subject: Re: EMC regs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 19:22:21 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Daniel James Doore" at Jan 11, 96 4:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 767 Lines: 18 On Thu, 11 Jan 1996 16:42:24 +0000 (GMT), Daniel James Doore said: > On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > Yeah, but you shouldn't be so anti-social as to wear a walkman in the > supermarket 'cos you'll miss out on all those 'special offers'.. :) Huh? You mean when about 5 minutes before closing someone comes on the PA system and says, "This is a customer announcement. All items from our instore bakery are now reduced to 15p"? Not that that interests me particularly much. > I don't reckon this regulation will seriously effect those items already > sold - can it? I can't imagine it will accept items already sold. It's more of a long-term phenomenon - a bit like the "dark skies 2000" campaign (hah! Dark skies 2050 more like). imc From imc Thu Jan 11 19:36:57 1996 Subject: Re: What time is it? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 19:36:57 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Stefan Drissen" at Jan 11, 96 11:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 149 Lines: 6 On Thu, 11 Jan 96 11:58:06 MET, Stefan Drissen said: > Finally I've moved from California to The Netherlands. ;) I've moved there as well. :-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 12 10:33:01 1996 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:01:10 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <12832@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: EMC regs X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 219 Lines: 10 The answer to the EM radiation may lie in the opt out for educational equipment. When you supply, you give a sheet warning that it must not be used outside the classroom!. Seriously... Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 12 10:42:56 1996 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:03:39 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <12833@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: EMC regs X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1206 Lines: 32 In message simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) writes: > >> Anyone care to suggest a cheap way to make SAM pass the regs? > >> Otherwise I think anyone selling hardware will be liable for the > >> 5000 pound fine if a disgruntled customer moans to Trading > >> Standards. > > > >Wrap it in lead :-) > > Do these apply to all new machines manufactured, or just newly designed > ones? If so, how about applying to the EC for a grant to get it done? > > Bloody idiots, enforcing these things on people so that only the big > companies can afford to manufacture anything any more. > > Sad bastards. > > Simon > -!- Mains Hum: A sine of the times??? Well Bob says he has read the directive and this year it is OK to sell old stuff, but next year ALL equipment must carry a sticker. Anyone can buy these and put them on, but if the unit is then tested for some reasin, you are liable for a 5000 pound fine and a bill for the test, plus possible imprisonment if it is a second offence. You get a criminal record as well. Its not just here, its the whole EC. As has been said, it is needed, but I feel the timetable is at best optomistic! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 12 13:30:08 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 13:25:25 +0000 Subject: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <2D20F586450@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1501 Lines: 28 I've started writing an assembler. Not that anyone needs one (except me). It's just that I personally think an assembler is so useful you shouldn't have to pay 30 quid or so for one. So I'm making it PD. However (and this sounds stupid) I've left all of my references and stuff at home (couldn't carry them all on the train obviously), so I really really need a complete list of Z80 opcodes & mnemonics. Oh, by the way, does anyone out there know of any PD assemblers in existence at the moment? Up to now my route has been assembling by hand or using ZEUS on a PC spectrum emulator and porting it! _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Dave Hooper - 1st Year Computer Science & Maths BSc | | At the University Of Edinburgh, Scotland | | email: d.c.hooper@sms.ed.ac.uk | | smail: why bother? | | www: http://www.geopages.com/Athens.1436 | | ####### UNDER CONSTRUCTION !! ####### | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 12 20:35:19 1996 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 20:48:54 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1847 Lines: 48 >I've started writing an assembler. Not that anyone needs one >(except me). It's just that I personally think an assembler is >so useful you shouldn't have to pay 30 quid or so for one. >So I'm making it PD. I have to agree with you. You're going to have a rather massive load of work if you want to write an assembler that's better than COMET. At the Gloucester shows I thought that COMET was actually going for 15 pounds - considering it's even worth every single penny at 30 quid... >However (and this sounds stupid) I've left all of my references and >stuff at home (couldn't carry them all on the train obviously), so >I really really need a complete list of Z80 opcodes & mnemonics. How about using Paul Horridge's brilliant GI_MON 3 (on FRED 64 - hint, hint Colin! ;) ). It's actually even got a mini-mini-mini assembler built it. >Oh, by the way, does anyone out there know of any PD assemblers in >existence at the moment? See bit above. >Up to now my route has been assembling by hand or using ZEUS on a PC >spectrum emulator and porting it! Aaaargh! Shame on you. You really should get COMET. I used DEVPAC GENS 3 on a Speccy emulator on my SAM at first. I was so relieved when I got COMET. PS. Although it may seem otherwise, the author is not paid for mentioning COMET as often as possible, its simply a brilliant assembler. My ties to Edwin Blink also have nothing to do with the matter since he chose for the one payment instead of royalties since SAMCo (or was it MGT) was somewhat shakey. [ridiculously large sig deleted] I know what, let's have another sig war!!!! What better way to start the new year? Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 12 20:35:20 1996 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 20:55:16 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: Re: What time is it? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 383 Lines: 18 >On Thu, 11 Jan 96 11:58:06 MET, Stefan Drissen said: >> Finally I've moved from California to The Netherlands. ;) > >I've moved there as well. :-) > >imc Tut, tut, pop by sometime then. ;) Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 13 00:00:38 1996 Message-Id: <199601122359.AAA11848@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 23:59:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Stefan Drissen" at Jan 12, 96 08:48:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1512 Lines: 32 > Aaaargh! Shame on you. You really should get COMET. I used DEVPAC GENS 3 > on a Speccy emulator on my SAM at first. I was so relieved when I got COMET. Me too... I used Lerm on the speccy, then Lerm on the SAM, then SC_Assembler, THEN COMET, which I got free from SAMCo when I worked there for a short while... COMET is undoubtedly the best though... though I'd give anything for a slightly different editor (gets a bit slow when the code gets too big, but that's a trade-off between speed of assembly and ease of editing), Macros and perhaps a couple of other knobs and buttons (COMET in ROM? uses the Meg for source code?... hmm...) I know that Marian Krivos's Zeus assembler has Macros, but going off SAM C I'm not sure that I want to use it. besides, the editor can't keep up with my typing. Thank god that Termite can though ;) > PS. Although it may seem otherwise, the author is not paid for mentioning > COMET as often as possible, its simply a brilliant assembler. My ties to > Edwin Blink also have nothing to do with the matter since he chose for the > one payment instead of royalties since SAMCo (or was it MGT) was somewhat > shakey. Did he? Coo... well, that explains one question that was on my mind, anyway. (Namely was he getting paid now that he was in Thailand). I wonder if Edwin's met Matthew Holt, who converted Manic Miner to the SAM yet... they're both out there, it would seem... Who knows - if this is a trend, perhaps I'll be out there next year! Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 13 10:46:48 1996 Message-Id: X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 10:42:51 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Component help Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1590 Lines: 61 Ian's already done these in detail, so I'll just try to fill in the gaps... >L2: DL390nS >L3: 10uH (what is u? another why of writing mu?) >L4: 10uH All those are correct... as for L4, which sits RIGHT NEXT TO the ASIC can be ignored, and the gap bridged with a wire or some solder. This will remove the ghosting problem which plagues some SAMs... >R42: 10K >R78: 1K5 >R79: 1K5 >R82: 2K7 >R83: 47K >R84: 56K ^^^^ should be 56R >R91: can't find this one Neither can I... hmmm... >C32: can't find this one either That's a 30pF variable cap. (trimmer type) >C36: 22mF ) >C37: 22mF ) (these m's could be u's) >C38: 22mF ) Very true... ummm... I'd go for u's.. - m's aren't all that common... On second look, go definitely for u's - they're electrolytics. 22uF is a very commonly used electrolytic value. >C43: 1nF Yep >C47: 22mF ) Yep... DON'T FORGET TO TELL HIM IT's AN ELECTROLYTIC!!! (Same goes for C36,C37,C38) >D17: where is this one? (I found D1-D16) Can't see it, but go for 1N4148 -- all the others are, and there's nothing in the SAM which would warrant special purpose diodes.. >N6: BC547 >N7: BC547 >N9: another lost one (N1-N8 were easy). That might be one of the ones used in the joystick strobe -- BC557? Simon -!- Mains Hum: A sine of the times??? +- Email:Simon.Cooke@umist.ac.uk ---- Fidonet: 2:250/124.2 (Simon Cooke) -+ | Snail:1 Dovey Close, Astley, Tyldesley, Manchester, M29 7NP, UK | | Tel: (01942) 886084 Fax: (01942) 886084 (ring voice first to confirm!)| +- WWW: http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc ----------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 13 15:39:59 1996 From: Mr Andrew M Gale Message-Id: <9601131539.AA08936@central.surrey.ac.uk> Subject: Re: EMC regs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 15:39:05 GMT In-Reply-To: <12794@bgserv.demon.co.uk>; from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Jan 10, 96 7:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 825 Lines: 24 > > Anyone care to suggest a cheap way to make SAM pass the regs? > Otherwise I think anyone selling hardware will be liable for the > 5000 pound fine if a disgruntled customer moans to Trading > Standards. > > Brian Erm.... Sinclair's infamous Black Watch had a problem of being disturbed by radiation and so the solution was to fit a copper shield inside. I'm not a physicist, but what would spraying the inside of the case with electro- conductive paint and grounding it do? Another thing that was on my mind was if the SAM chucks out so much em rubbish,m does it matter how much any peripherals do? After all, it'll be insignificant compared to the SAM itself... Could we just say that the SAM is actually a radio transmitter and not a computer, and hence it's *supposed* to give out these frequencies?! -Andrew From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 14 10:19:31 1996 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 10:19:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Daniel James Doore X-Sender: iq4d4385@jaffle-fddi To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: EMC regs In-Reply-To: <9601131539.AA08936@central.surrey.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1324 Lines: 28 > Erm.... Sinclair's infamous Black Watch had a problem of being disturbed > by radiation and so the solution was to fit a copper shield inside. I'm not > a physicist, but what would spraying the inside of the case with electro- > conductive paint and grounding it do? Wouldn't that cost a fortune? I seem to remember that a diddy pot of the stuff in the hell hole that is Tandy cost about a fiver. > Could we just say that the SAM is actually a radio transmitter and not > a computer, and hence it's *supposed* to give out these frequencies?! It might as well be, mine destroys just about every FM, LW and most MW bands quite efficently, maybe we could repackage it as a radar jammer? :) Quickie: Playing Atic Atac last night, got 80% but I can't remember what the last part of the key was disguised as so was deeply unhappy and lost all my turkey running about. Bastard. Any ideas - and _don't_ tell me to look at comp.sys.sinclair cos I can't, besides you're the smart people, or so they tell me ;) Dan. +========================================================================+ | Dan Doore - Ex-Head Pod And Dogsbody | D.J.Doore-iq4d4385@lmu.ac.uk | | WARNING!! Only read every so often, so you might have to wait a bit. | +========================================================================+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 14 21:55:06 1996 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 14:30:26 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: Re: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 805 Lines: 21 >COMET is undoubtedly the best though... though I'd give anything for a >slightly different editor (gets a bit slow when the code gets too big, >but that's a trade-off between speed of assembly and ease of editing), >Macros and perhaps a couple of other knobs and buttons (COMET in ROM? >uses the Meg for source code?... hmm...) I like the editor. There is room for improvement though. The ability to edit several files at the same time for example. >I wonder if Edwin's met Matthew Holt, who converted Manic Miner to the >SAM yet... they're both out there, it would seem... Really? What was his reason? Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 14 21:55:06 1996 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 14:33:17 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: Re: Component help To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 679 Lines: 28 >Ian's already done these in detail, so I'll just try to fill in the gaps... Gulp! I've already sent the disc off to Thailand... >>R84: 56K > ^^^^ should be 56R What's a 56R???? I thought that R84 would be a resistor? >Yep... DON'T FORGET TO TELL HIM IT's AN ELECTROLYTIC!!! >(Same goes for C36,C37,C38) Does it really matter? Wouldn't he know that? Thanks anyway though Simon... I'll let you all know if Edwin manages to blow up his SAM or not when I hear it from him. Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 09:50:27 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: Component help To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 09:47:17 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Stefan Drissen" at Jan 13, 96 02:33:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 289 Lines: 12 > > >>R84: 56K > > ^^^^ should be 56R > > What's a 56R???? I thought that R84 would be a resistor? > 56R just means 56 ohms - it's just a useful abbreviation for typewriters/computers because omega is difficult to get. (hey! I have enough problem getting a pound sign!) -Andrew From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 10:05:43 1996 Message-Id: <199601151002.LAA04015@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: Component help To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:01:50 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Stefan Drissen" at Jan 13, 96 02:33:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 337 Lines: 13 > >Ian's already done these in detail, so I'll just try to fill in the gaps... > > Gulp! I've already sent the disc off to Thailand... > > >>R84: 56K > > ^^^^ should be 56R > > What's a 56R???? I thought that R84 would be a resistor? Well, 56R is a 56 ohm resistor, as opposed to 56K, which is a 56 kilohm resistor ;) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 11:03:54 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:05:07 +0000 Subject: Re: EMC regs Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <317BB3E5877@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1109 Lines: 27 Daniel James Doore said sommat like: > > Could we just say that the SAM is actually a radio transmitter and not > > a computer, and hence it's *supposed* to give out these frequencies?! > > It might as well be, mine destroys just about every FM, LW and most MW > bands quite efficently, maybe we could repackage it as a radar jammer? :) Er, well, it works ok for me! I've got a stereo about 1 metre behind me when I'm using the coupe, and FM and AM seem both fine (and the aerial is just a bit of wire!) > Quickie: Playing Atic Atac last night, got 80% but I can't remember what > the last part of the key was disguised as so was deeply unhappy and lost > all my turkey running about. Bastard. Any ideas - and _don't_ tell me to > look at comp.sys.sinclair cos I can't, besides you're the smart people, > or so they tell me ;) I seem to remember the last part of the key actually looked like a key itself (or was that the first part?) It could've looked perhaps a bit like a square boxy thing. But doesn't the key depend on which character you play as? I thought it did. . . > Dan. dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 11:24:41 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:21:15 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <317FFAA0B0D@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2575 Lines: 54 Stefan said sommat like: > >I've started writing an assembler. Not that anyone needs one > >(except me). It's just that I personally think an assembler is > >so useful you shouldn't have to pay 30 quid or so for one. > >So I'm making it PD. > > I have to agree with you. You're going to have a rather massive load of work > if you want to write an assembler that's better than COMET. At the > Gloucester shows I thought that COMET was actually going for 15 pounds - > considering it's even worth every single penny at 30 quid... Hey, whoever said it was going to be better than COMET??!! Plus, as you can tell, I don't own comet, so how would I know if it's better than it?! ;) Was COMET going for 15 quid? That's perhaps a groovy alternative, although Gloucester a bit out of my way for my no-income-student-lifestyle. I'm trying to get it to work fastish, without having to use up massive amounts of memory on tables for *evert* instruction. I think I've got it sorted, plus it will accept normal ASCII files for input, I don't know how COMET files are stored, are they encoded like Speccy ZEUS? Macros'll be implemented, and they can take the place of a named block of the source code, or a file on disk. The source format will probably be like: [Label]: Instruction ;comment where instruction is any Z80 instruction (incl undocumented - I eventually found a *FULL* Z80 opcode list on the WWW, can't remember the URL, but it had them all, ace.), or (yes, greater/less than enclose the filename) to include, AT THAT POINT, the named file (erm, must be on the disk inserted, or to prompt for 'Insert disk containing file') or an assembler directive like ORG or what have you, or ##MACRO (double hash in case some mailer systems screw that one up! >:) ) followed by the name of a block of the current source code. The macro is defined within the source as ##(double hash)START macroname, and ended with ##END. Please note that the code WITHIN the macro labels is assembled at that address ALSO! (I've done this since it seems pointless to define a macro, but not assemble it at THAT address, you will always need to define a macro to assemble at *some* address) If you think this is dumb, I may change it to NOT assembler there and then. So that you would define all the macros at the beginning, say, or the end, up to you, wherever. Maybe this isn't what you meant by macros, Simon, anyone? I'm not deeply into this jargon stuff ;) > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy dave. - cheers! From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 11:28:47 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:27:07 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31818CB18D9@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 866 Lines: 28 Agggh! Spooks! I've just discovered my SAM's Z80 doesn't handle all undocumented / unofficial commands. (or maybe my reference material is wrong?) According to the references I've got, there exist a set of DD CB commands, that perform CB-type ops (SRL, SLL, RLA etc) on derefenced IX, IY registers, eg SLL (Ix+d), RLA (IY+d) etc. ( Presumably *THOSE* ones are STANDARD Z80, not freaky spooky ones) and also LD A, SLL (IX+d) etc (I've guessed that these are nonstandard ;) ) , but NEITHER type work on my SAM! Is my source wrong, in that you CANNOT perform a RRCA (IX+17h) etc command? I'll try and find the reference again, and email it up here. That way any of you clever guys can tell me what (if anything) is wrong with it. PS - in case you were wondering, no, my assembler DID NOT assemble my code incorrectly! (I assembled by hand, nerr! ) ;) dave From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 11:52:31 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:51:03 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <3187EE64A57@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2597 Lines: 88 Ok, I found this at www.freeflight.com/fms/stuff/Z80ops.txt Is there something wrong with this? Or are all the commands listed accurately, and my SAM is just buggered?? .. on second thoughts, it's massive and taking too long to download. You could always look there for yourselves. I'd like to know. Is it possible Zilog (or maybe one of the 'substitute' manufacturers, eg, Tandy I think) produced a couple of Z80s that had none (or at least fewer) nonstandard or undocumented commands? I think my source code was sommat like: LD IX, data LD A, (DE) LD B, 4 shift: RLCA JR NC, paper ink: RLC (IX+2) RL C RLC (IX+2) RL C JR next paper: RLC (IX+3) RL C RLC (IX+3) RL C next: DJNZ shift LD (HL), C RET data: DEFB 0,0,ink, paper (some sort of custom MODE3 print rounting which is *QUITE A BIT* faster than the RST10 one - not the full routine cause that's a little longer, but you can see what I'm getting at here.) It utterly failed to work, so I changed it round a bit, the code is slightly smaller now, but *does* more stuff, and (I'm convinced) the above version would work faster. LD IX, data LD A, (DE) LD B, 4 shift: RLCA JR NC, paper ink: RL C SCF RL C JR next paper: RL C AND A ;reset carry flag RL C next: DJNZ shift LD A, C AND (IX+2) EX AF, AF' LD A,C CPL AND (IX+3) LD (HL), A EX AF, AF' OR (HL) LD (HL),A RET data: DEFB 0,0,ink, paper What does anyone else think?? dave. PS - I think this code is correct - I'm typing from memory here. _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Dave Hooper - 1st Year Computer Science & Maths BSc | | At the University Of Edinburgh, Scotland | | email: d.c.hooper@sms.ed.ac.uk | | smail: why bother? | | www: http://www.geopages.com/Athens.1436 | | ####### UNDER CONSTRUCTION !! ####### | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 13:37:54 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:37:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Daniel James Doore X-Sender: iq4d4385@jaffle-fddi To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: EMC regs In-Reply-To: <9601151247.AA00843@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 737 Lines: 18 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > No, the key always looks the same. I would have thought it would be > relatively easy to recognise, although I haven't played the game for > years and I can't tell you what it looks like (but it is yellow). Two parts are yellow, but the last part is something else, somebody this morning said it was the coin with the 'Happy Eater' on it. I will have a bash tonight. Dan. +========================================================================+ | Dan Doore - Ex-Head Pod And Dogsbody | D.J.Doore-iq4d4385@lmu.ac.uk | | WARNING!! Only read every so often, so you might have to wait a bit. | +========================================================================+ From imc Mon Jan 15 13:38:14 1996 Subject: Re: Component help To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 13:38:14 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 13, 96 10:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 470 Lines: 21 On Sat, 13 Jan 1996 10:42:51 +0000, Simon Cooke said: > >C43: 1nF > Yep Judging by the info Motorola sent me, this might have to be a fairly low tolerance one (5%). > >C47: 22mF ) > Yep... DON'T FORGET TO TELL HIM IT's AN ELECTROLYTIC!!! How many non-electrolytic kinds of 22uF capacitors do you know of? > >D17: where is this one? (I found D1-D16) > Can't see it, but go for 1N4148 It's definitely on the circuit board even if it's not on the diagram. :-) imc From imc Mon Jan 15 13:40:06 1996 Subject: Re: EMC regs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 13:40:06 MET In-Reply-To: <9601131539.AA08936@central.surrey.ac.uk>; from "Mr Andrew M Gale" at Jan 13, 96 3:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 557 Lines: 14 On Sat, 13 Jan 96 15:39:05 GMT, Mr Andrew M Gale said: > I'm not > a physicist, but what would spraying the inside of the case with electro- > conductive paint and grounding it do? Make it very expensive. :-) > Could we just say that the SAM is actually a radio transmitter and not > a computer, and hence it's *supposed* to give out these frequencies?! Unfortunately you need a licence to operate a radio transmitter, and I'm fairly sure you wouldn't get one for using a Sam. ;-) imc From imc Mon Jan 15 13:47:12 1996 Subject: Re: EMC regs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 13:47:12 MET In-Reply-To: <317BB3E5877@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 11:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 526 Lines: 12 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:05:07 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > I seem to remember the last part of the key actually looked like a > key itself (or was that the first part?) It could've looked perhaps a > bit like a square boxy thing. > But doesn't the key depend on which character you play as? > I thought it did. . . No, the key always looks the same. I would have thought it would be relatively easy to recognise, although I haven't played the game for years and I can't tell you what it looks like (but it is yellow). imc From imc Mon Jan 15 13:50:53 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 13:50:53 MET In-Reply-To: <317FFAA0B0D@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 11:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 666 Lines: 18 Someone said... > > I have to agree with you. You're going to have a rather massive load of work > > if you want to write an assembler that's better than COMET. At the > > Gloucester shows I thought that COMET was actually going for 15 pounds - > > considering it's even worth every single penny at 30 quid... Incidentally, does Comet... * accept EX HL,DE as well as EX DE,HL? * accept ADD 1 as well as ADD A,1? * accept JR 1 (as an instruction to skip the next byte)? * assemble floating-point calculator instructions? * assemble split IX/IY instructions? * assemble the LD/RRC and all the other undocumented DDCB instructions? Just curious. :-) imc From imc Mon Jan 15 13:53:00 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 13:53:00 MET In-Reply-To: <31818CB18D9@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 11:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 514 Lines: 12 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:27:07 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > According to the references I've got, there exist a set of DD CB > commands, that perform CB-type ops (SRL, SLL, RLA etc) on derefenced > IX, IY registers, eg > SLL (Ix+d), RLA (IY+d) etc. > ( Presumably *THOSE* ones are STANDARD Z80, not freaky spooky ones) These are certainly standard documented instructions. If you think they don't work then either something seriously *weird* has happened to your Sam or your test program contained a mistake. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 13:57:49 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:56:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Daniel James Doore X-Sender: iq4d4385@jaffle-fddi To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: EMC regs In-Reply-To: <9601151340.AA00982@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 754 Lines: 18 > On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:37:26 +0000 (GMT), Daniel James Doore said: > > Two parts are yellow, but the last part is something else, somebody this > > morning said it was the coin with the 'Happy Eater' on it. > > If that's true then someone has changed it since I last played it. I've just remembered that there are a load of (I think) yellow doors, and I can never remember where the key is, so find _that_ key and I might have more luck. Dan. +========================================================================+ | Dan Doore - Ex-Head Pod And Dogsbody | D.J.Doore-iq4d4385@lmu.ac.uk | | WARNING!! Only read every so often, so you might have to wait a bit. | +========================================================================+ From imc Mon Jan 15 14:06:08 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 14:06:08 MET In-Reply-To: <3187EE64A57@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 11:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1150 Lines: 26 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:51:03 +0000, Dave Hooper said: [sniparoonie] > (some sort of custom MODE3 print rounting which is *QUITE A BIT* > faster than the RST10 one - not the full routine cause that's a > little longer, but you can see what I'm getting at here.) > It utterly failed to work, so I changed it round a bit, the code is > slightly smaller now, but *does* more stuff, and (I'm convinced) the > above version would work faster. Note: IX and IY are rather slow registers to use and I bet you can improve the speed by not using them at all. For instance, on your usual Z80,... LD A,(HL) 7 LD A,(IX+d) 19 INC (HL) 11 INC (IX+d) 23 It takes 4 T-states to fetch the extra DD opcode, another 3 to fetch d and 5 to add d to IX (though, if I remember correctly, some of the timings for IX instructions defy explanation). My guess of what happens on the Sam when the screen is off is that in this particular case each instruction just takes 1 cycle longer. If the screen is on then the following might happen. LD A,(HL) 16 LD A,(IX+d) 32 INC (HL) 24 INC (IX+d) 40 imc From imc Mon Jan 15 14:40:03 1996 Subject: Re: EMC regs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 14:40:03 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Daniel James Doore" at Jan 15, 96 1:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 277 Lines: 7 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:37:26 +0000 (GMT), Daniel James Doore said: > Two parts are yellow, but the last part is something else, somebody this > morning said it was the coin with the 'Happy Eater' on it. If that's true then someone has changed it since I last played it. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 15:26:40 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:29:25 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31C22E60E9C@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 872 Lines: 40 Ian Collier said sommat like: > Someone said... > > > I have to agree with you. You're going to have a rather massive load of work > > > if you want to write an assembler that's better than COMET. At the > > > Gloucester shows I thought that COMET was actually going for 15 pounds - > > > considering it's even worth every single penny at 30 quid... > > Incidentally, does Comet... > > * accept EX HL,DE as well as EX DE,HL? MINE DOES! > * accept ADD 1 as well as ADD A,1? MINE DOES (now!) > * accept JR 1 (as an instruction to skip the next byte)? MINE DOES! > * assemble floating-point calculator instructions? Er, nope. Should it? > * assemble split IX/IY instructions? MINE DOES! > * assemble the LD/RRC and all the other undocumented DDCB instructions? MINE DOES! (assuming my Z80 isn't buggered) > Just curious. :-) > > imc dave From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 15:44:05 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:43:29 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31C5EE74B33@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2821 Lines: 63 Ian Collier wrote sommat like: > Note: IX and IY are rather slow registers to use and I bet you can improve > the speed by not using them at all. For instance, on your usual Z80,... > > LD A,(HL) 7 LD A,(IX+d) 19 > INC (HL) 11 INC (IX+d) 23 > > It takes 4 T-states to fetch the extra DD opcode, another 3 to fetch d > and 5 to add d to IX (though, if I remember correctly, some of the timings > for IX instructions defy explanation). My guess of what happens on the Sam > when the screen is off is that in this particular case each instruction just > takes 1 cycle longer. If the screen is on then the following might happen. > > LD A,(HL) 16 LD A,(IX+d) 32 > INC (HL) 24 INC (IX+d) 40 > > imc Ok then, so maybe the second bit of code would run faster! 8) Never mind. I preferred the look of the first one ;) On a slightly different subject (sortof) : What does anyone think about sending FILES via email? It probably isn't a new idea or nothing, but I know for a fact that I know very little. So what I'm suggesting is this: I'll upload a program called emailbin.exe to some ftp site or other (hey! how about nvg.unit.no! - someone) that converts ANY file byte-for-byte to an ASCII file, that could easily be emailed somewhere. I'm doing this cause I'm sure my emailer doesn't like anything out above ASCII 127, and spits blood at the site of anything less than ASCII 32. If my brain's working OK today then I guess each character would store 6 bits of the original 8bit byte. The emailbin.exe prog would convert the 8bits to ASCII, or back again to reform the original file. What does anyone reckon? That way it'd be easier to show *EXAMPLES* of stuff without: 1) Having a decent web page 2) Being able to go to Gloucester 3) or whatever. I think it'd be an important note to say that the TITLEBAR of the email message contains the program name (so that you don't try and read a singularly uninteresting message full of ASCII blobs unless you really want/need to, say, to copy it and save as .txt, to load into emailbin.exe). Also, a message should accompanying the file, probably with the titlebar containing "About "+the program name. Call me dull but I think it's a fine idea. I'll probably be the first (er, and only?) person to use it anyway, by sending a 'screenshot' (ie, mockup) of PDASM. Is mouse support required? It all looks a bit TEXT-y, but has a TUI like, say, Borland Turbo C++. Anyway, when PDASM's done, I'll upload it somewhere (everywhere!) along with the source. Someone else could maybe, one day, make it a better thing to use. That'd be fun :) Must go now and find that third key; it's pure disappeared from my game also! (even though I clearly remember completing it several years ago!) dave From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 15:47:23 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:50:15 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31C7C0002C6@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1408 Lines: 56 *I* said sommat like: > > * accept EX HL,DE as well as EX DE,HL? > > MINE DOES! In fact, it also accepts EX (SP), HL as well as EX HL, (SP) cause I can never remember which way round it is myself! > > * accept ADD 1 as well as ADD A,1? > > MINE DOES (now!) Also, ADC 1, SBC 1, and (perversly!) SUB A, 1. Hey, why not! > > * accept JR 1 (as an instruction to skip the next byte)? > > MINE DOES! It assembles the line by FIRST looking for a JR instruction, cause that's the most annoying case. If the operand is a label, it finds it's value and assumes it to be an address. It then calculates the offset by (Address of label - $ - 2) like it should. (a label is recognised as ANY operand (excluding flags or registers) that contains an alphabetic character) Otherwise, if the operand is numeric, it assumes it is an offset, and compiles that way. Hence, the instructions JR $ and JR -2 are identical, as are loop: OTI DJNZ loop and loop: OTI DJNZ -4 etc. > > * assemble floating-point calculator instructions? > > Er, nope. Should it? > > > * assemble split IX/IY instructions? > > MINE DOES! (I assume you mean, like, LD B, IXh and stuff) > > * assemble the LD/RRC and all the other undocumented DDCB instructions? > > MINE DOES! (assuming my Z80 isn't buggered) At least, all of the undocumented instructions on the document I gave the URL for! dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 15:59:36 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:57:04 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31C98A76104@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 846 Lines: 28 Can I also say (to clarify sommat) that PDASM CAN NOT accept an instruction like JR SKIP_BYTE if somewhere the source code defines skip_byte as an offset of 1, eg SKIP_BYTE EQU 1. My assembler reads the instruction as JR
, calculates the offset from $+2 to address '1', then complains with 'relative offset out of range' error, or something like that. (I've written the PDASM logic, just not coded much of PDASM at all yet. Shouldn't take too long (didn't Si Cooke once say that about, err, SOI? Or, in fact, about Sandman Shadow! - Or was that someone else? ;) ) Also, it compiles RLCA and RLC A differently (7 and 237,7 respectively (I think), like it should) The screen looks quite nice, with a popup menu when you press EDIT, and no menu bar at the top, multiple windows... oooh! You can even change the colors! dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 16:17:26 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:03:17 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31CB2FB7788@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 721 Lines: 35 > LD IX, data > LD A, (DE) > LD B, 4 > shift: RLCA > JR NC, paper > ink: RL C > SCF > RL C > JR next > paper: RL C > AND A ;reset carry flag > RL C > next: DJNZ shift > LD A, C > AND (IX+2) > ; removed LD (HL), A > LD A, C > CPL > AND (IX+3) > ; removed > ; removed > OR (HL) > LD (HL),A > RET > data: DEFB 0,0,ink, paper > That's better isn't it! (A saving of a whole 15 cycles or so I think - woo!) Any other optimisations to this *one* routine people can think of? Or should I maybe get on writing the rest of it? ;) dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 16:19:40 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:22:09 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31D03E95CEC@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 445 Lines: 11 Ian Collier shouted: > Oh no, not another different encoding program! Uudecode already exists > and is fine for that purpose. Well I've not heard of it! I'll look around, thanks! But, right, does anyone mind me emailing up a screenshot? Otherwise, how else will anyone get to see any of my stuff, until it's finally finished, and turns out crap cause everyone says, why didn't you say the screen was going to be green, or something? dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 16:20:07 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:19:23 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31CF7B8215C@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2095 Lines: 64 Ian Collier (strangely) said: > On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:50:15 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > > (a label is recognised as ANY operand (excluding flags or registers) > > that contains an alphabetic character) > > Oh, I forgot... > > * allow label names such as ADD, PUSH, NC and IX? :-) > > imc Er, no. Should it ;) Anyway PDASM will do, perhaps, but that depends on the user. You see, PDASM has an (arrgh!) ini file, that contains (amongst other things) the status of the CAPS LOCK flag (so, when it loads, CAPS is automatically on. Or off. Depends on you. I like that). There's also a bit (well, byte actually, but it may as well be a bit) that says something like: If this bit is set, PDASM will search the source code for commands, registers and flags in a case-insensitive way. What this means (I suppose obviously) is that, if the flag is set, PDASM will accept fish: ld Hl,2 repeat: LD a, sBc (iX+my_label) and assemble them properly, but not add: aDd hL,De since add will get converted to ADD (a command) giving an 'Unexpected symbol ':' ' error. Or something. If, however, it is reset, fish: LD IXh, 42 RepEaT: LD A, SBC (IX+my_label) assemble fine, as does add: ADD HL,DE (since add stays as lower case, which is NOT found in the tables) but, of course fish: ld ixh, the_answer gives 'Unknown or unexpected command 'ld' ' error, or somesuch. Does this find favour with you lot? I guess there'd also be a thing you could run in PDASM to actually convert the source to upper case. I doubt anyone would use it, but it would be very easy to write, and so, when I've got the print routine finished, I might do that bit next. Or the intro screen ;) dave. > (PS BIAS for the spectrum does all of the above except for the undocumented > DDCB instructions. Watch out for Sam BIAS, coming out shortly after Statues > of Ice!) PS BIAS? What's that? Or do you mean, (PS:) Bias, for the spectrum, ... ? Either way, I've not heard of it. Sounds good. Is it PD? Send me a copy? ; from "Daniel James Doore" at Jan 15, 96 1:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1098 Lines: 22 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:56:11 +0000 (GMT), Daniel James Doore said: > I've just remembered that there are a load of (I think) yellow doors, > and I can never remember where the key is, so find _that_ key and I > might have more luck. Right. After extensive research (:-)) I have found that the left-hand part of the key faintly resembles a yellow crown and looks like an ellipse with a black backwards '3' on it and a small yellow circle on the right. The middle is the letters AC with a horizontal bar across the top, and the right-hand part faintly resembles a trumpet with the letter G hanging on it. The left-hand part is on the very top floor, for which the yellow key is essential (you don't even know that floor exists without it). The yellow key can only be found by jumping through a trapdoor. This trapdoor can be found in a room on the ACG floor which is letterbox shaped and has two suits of armour on the lower wall. (Unfortunately, although I did find all four keys and all three parts of the big key, it took me two games to do it and I never had the whole key at once). imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 16:43:25 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:44:45 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31D646B1D6E@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 674 Lines: 18 I found Uuencode and uudecode, I thought I'd let everyone know. There's probably one a lot nearer, but I didn't look particularly near in the first case. You can use netscape to download it from www.itu.ch/itudoc/itu/itu-r/tools/3403.zip. You could probably FTP it too, but I didn't have any success from that. I might be using it soon. Any problems in that? If I get an angry message saying, I've only got 100K drive space, don't fill it with stuff I don't need, then I'll see if I can attempt to get stuff onto my web page. Presuambly I could put an FTP link to my web directory (in the US!) so that'd work, I don't know, the connection seems dodgy for me. dave. From imc Mon Jan 15 16:53:21 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 16:53:21 MET In-Reply-To: <31C7C0002C6@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 3:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 410 Lines: 13 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:50:15 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > (a label is recognised as ANY operand (excluding flags or registers) > that contains an alphabetic character) Oh, I forgot... * allow label names such as ADD, PUSH, NC and IX? :-) imc (PS BIAS for the spectrum does all of the above except for the undocumented DDCB instructions. Watch out for Sam BIAS, coming out shortly after Statues of Ice!) From imc Mon Jan 15 16:55:01 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 16:55:01 MET In-Reply-To: <31C5EE74B33@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 3:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 550 Lines: 15 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:43:29 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > On a slightly different subject (sortof) : > What does anyone think about sending FILES via email? Don't do it! Unless the person you are sending it to has asked for it. > I'll upload a program called emailbin.exe to some ftp site or other > (hey! how about nvg.unit.no! - someone) that converts ANY file > byte-for-byte to an ASCII file, that could easily be emailed > somewhere. Oh no, not another different encoding program! Uudecode already exists and is fine for that purpose. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 17:06:22 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 17:04:28 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31DB8994A3C@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2967 Lines: 93 Ian Collier wrote: > > > * allow label names such as ADD, PUSH, NC and IX? :-) > > > Er, no. Should it ;) > > If I accidentally chose an instruction as the name of a label it wouldn't > be the first time (there's a lot of them to avoid!). Thing is, I wouldn't > notice because it assembles fine on my spectrum. Hey, there's not that many: LD, LDIR, LDDR, OTIR, OTDR, etc, why would you ever use these for labels? In fact, if I did, I'd only ever use SUB, ADD and RST (maybe) for labels! > I have at least one program that uses IX addressing like this: > > ldc,(ix+data0-ix) > > because it is instantly obvious what is meant (even without the space > between ld and c) and doesn't require me to remember anything. Well, not to me! Presumably data0-ix is a label. Bit specific isn't it? Why not data0-offset or sommat? (Ok, it's your code. . . ;) ) > If I remember correctly, in one program I wrote routines to handle some > letters which have been input and just called them by that letter. So > we might have... > > jp+z > > to jump to the "Z" command routine. The "+" is there to distinguish > the z from the zero flag. Well, that would cause NO problems in PDASM. It checks from the LEFT first. So, it would encounter the + and think: AHHA! It's not a command/flag/register ; let's see what the JP assembler routine has to say. . . Then it calls the JP routine, which says, AHHA! It's not a literal! It must be a label! And everything's jake. Whereas ldc, (ix+data0-ix) would do the following: Find number of operands: <2> - ie, (ix+ and data0-ix) Look through 1-operand instructions for ldc0 LDC: Not a command, must be a label... Find closing colon: BOOOM! Suppose it read ld c, (ix+data0-ix): Find number of operands: <3> - ie, c and (ix+ and data0-ix) Search through 3-operand instructions for LD LD: Operand 2 is (ix+ or (iy+ <-well that's obvious!! Operand 3 must be an offset -: Found minus sign: operand 3 split into data0 (which has been found) and ix ix is not a literal (obviously) => a label. label 'ix' found: ... and so no problems. Problems occur when a label contains a valid instruction with a valid number of operands, eg add a number: ADD A,B (assuming it's checking case insensitive, else it's all ok) add: two operands: operand one, a: register operand two: non literal, must be a label label 'number' not found! I must go, I have a logic lecture > > PS BIAS? What's that? > > Or do you mean, (PS:) Bias, for the spectrum, ... ? > > Who says PS needs to be followed by a punctuation mark? > > > Either way, I've not heard of it. Sounds good. Is it PD? > > It is not PD, but it is free. It is on nvg somewhere, probably in > utils/spectrum (and no you can't nick any code out of it!). > > imc > From imc Mon Jan 15 17:32:02 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 17:32:02 MET In-Reply-To: <31CF7B8215C@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 4:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1185 Lines: 38 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:19:23 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > Ian Collier (strangely) said: > > * allow label names such as ADD, PUSH, NC and IX? :-) > Er, no. Should it ;) If I accidentally chose an instruction as the name of a label it wouldn't be the first time (there's a lot of them to avoid!). Thing is, I wouldn't notice because it assembles fine on my spectrum. I have at least one program that uses IX addressing like this: ldc,(ix+data0-ix) because it is instantly obvious what is meant (even without the space between ld and c) and doesn't require me to remember anything. If I remember correctly, in one program I wrote routines to handle some letters which have been input and just called them by that letter. So we might have... jp+z to jump to the "Z" command routine. The "+" is there to distinguish the z from the zero flag. > PS BIAS? What's that? > Or do you mean, (PS:) Bias, for the spectrum, ... ? Who says PS needs to be followed by a punctuation mark? > Either way, I've not heard of it. Sounds good. Is it PD? It is not PD, but it is free. It is on nvg somewhere, probably in utils/spectrum (and no you can't nick any code out of it!). imc From imc Mon Jan 15 17:33:28 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 17:33:28 MET In-Reply-To: <31D03E95CEC@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 4:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 370 Lines: 12 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:22:09 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > Well I've not heard of it! I'll look around, thanks! Uuencode is a standard unix command, but it exists on the PC as well in some form or other. > But, right, does anyone mind me emailing up a screenshot? Otherwise, > how else will anyone get to see any of my stuff Unless you put it on nvg, I suppose... imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 17:51:09 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 18:32:58 +0100 (GMT) From: David Gommeren Subject: RE: PDASM To: Sam List In-Reply-To: <31CB2FB7788@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 0.99] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1584 Lines: 80 On Mon 15 Jan, Dave Hooper wrote: > > LD IX, data > > LD A, (DE) > > LD B, 4 > > shift: RLCA > > JR NC, paper > > ink: RL C > > SCF > > RL C > > JR next > > paper: RL C > > AND A ;reset carry flag > > RL C > > next: DJNZ shift > > LD A, C > > AND (IX+2) > > ; removed > LD (HL), A > > LD A, C > > CPL > > AND (IX+3) > > ; removed > > ; removed > > OR (HL) > > LD (HL),A > > RET > > data: DEFB 0,0,ink, paper > > > > That's better isn't it! > (A saving of a whole 15 cycles or so I think - woo!) > Any other optimisations to this *one* routine people can think of? > Or should I maybe get on writing the rest of it? > ;) > > dave. > I didn't follow the purpose of this routine, but it can be further optimised by: LD IX, data LD A, (DE) LD B, 4 shift: RLCA JR NC, paper ink: RL C SCF RL C DJNZ shift LD A, C AND (IX+2) LD (HL), A LD A, C CPL AND (IX+3) OR (HL) LD (HL),A RET paper: RL C AND A ;reset carry flag RL C next: DJNZ shift LD A, C AND (IX+2) LD (HL), A LD A, C CPL AND (IX+3) OR (HL) LD (HL),A RET data: DEFB 0,0,ink, paper Save you a JR in your loop. Also, to optimise code don't use IX or IY and use pre-computed tables as much as possible. David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 18:13:59 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 18:16:29 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31EEBD60740@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1251 Lines: 36 Ian Collier: Blame him: > > > ldc,(ix+data0-ix) > > > > because it is instantly obvious what is meant (even without the space > > > between ld and c) and doesn't require me to remember anything. > > > Well, not to me! > > Presumably data0-ix is a label. Bit specific isn't it? > > Nonono... "ix" is a variable which contains the value of ix. Therefore > ix+data0-ix means take ix, add data0 to it and subtract ix, leaving data0. > I'm sorry? Run that by me again. . .ix is a . . . 'VARIABLE'. . ? Is this a feature of BIAS or do you mean register (no probably not), what DO you mean? Or am I being thick? I mean, basically, does this do the following: LD C, (IX+data0-IX) or LD C, (IX+data0-ix) (my brain is working in case-sensitive to make it obvious) in which case ix is a label / constant. In the first instance - BLIMEY! What sort of instructions are you using??!! In the second: This would only work provided the offset value equal to 'data0' minus 'ix' is containable within an 8bit field (ie, 0 <= data0-ix <= 255) In which case, why not 'just' call the label data0ix, or, what are you doing? Tell you what, send, like, a few lines either side so I can see what you're getting at! It certainly isn't obvious at all 8) dave. From imc Mon Jan 15 18:23:25 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 18:23:25 MET In-Reply-To: <31DB8994A3C@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 5:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 472 Lines: 14 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 17:04:28 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > Ian Collier wrote: > > ldc,(ix+data0-ix) > > because it is instantly obvious what is meant (even without the space > > between ld and c) and doesn't require me to remember anything. > Well, not to me! > Presumably data0-ix is a label. Bit specific isn't it? Nonono... "ix" is a variable which contains the value of ix. Therefore ix+data0-ix means take ix, add data0 to it and subtract ix, leaving data0. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 18:30:23 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 18:33:06 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <31F32BA30C1@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4336 Lines: 157 David Gommeren said sommat like: > On Mon 15 Jan, Dave Hooper wrote: > > > LD IX, data > > > LD A, (DE) > > > LD B, 4 > > > shift: RLCA > > > JR NC, paper > > > ink: RL C > > > SCF > > > RL C > > > JR next > > > paper: RL C > > > AND A ;reset carry flag > > > RL C > > > next: DJNZ shift > > > LD A, C > > > AND (IX+2) > > > ; removed > > LD (HL), A > > > LD A, C > > > CPL > > > AND (IX+3) > > > ; removed > > > ; removed > > > OR (HL) > > > LD (HL),A > > > RET > > > data: DEFB 0,0,ink, paper > > > > > > > That's better isn't it! > > (A saving of a whole 15 cycles or so I think - woo!) > > Any other optimisations to this *one* routine people can think of? > > Or should I maybe get on writing the rest of it? > > ;) > > > > dave. > > > I didn't follow the purpose of this routine, but it can be further optimised by: Well, it computes one byte of the left-hand half of a MODE3 screen print routine, where HL holds the address of the top-left screen byte, and DE holds the address in memory of the character set (stored as 8bytes/character as per most fonts) Ink and Paper in the DEFB are both bytes containing four identical doublets; each doublet holding a value between 0 and 3, which is used as the color to set each doublet on the screen (each doublet corresponding to one pixel) eg, for ink 2, paper 1; INK EQU 10101010b, PAPER EQU 01010101b It copies the byte at DE (characterset) and rotates it a bit at a time, passing the fallout into the carry. If carry is thus set, the bit represents ink, and so a doublet of INK is rotated into C Else, a doublet of paper is rotated into C Finally, C is printed. The version of the source in the message was the one I had optimised as part of the original message. (ie, not the one that Ian Collier said would be too slow cause it contained too many IX instructions!) This one rotated the fallout into carry, as before: If carry is thus set, the bit represents ink, so a doublet of 1's is rotated into C. Else, a doublet of zero's is rotated into C. At the end of the routine, effectively, C is bit-treated such that all zero-doublets are replaced by paper doublets located at (IX+3) and all 1-doublets are replaced by ink doublets located at (IX+2) Easy! > LD IX, data > LD A, (DE) > LD B, 4 > shift: RLCA > JR NC, paper > ink: RL C > SCF > RL C > DJNZ shift > LD A, C > AND (IX+2) > LD (HL), A > LD A, C > CPL > AND (IX+3) > OR (HL) > LD (HL),A > RET > > paper: RL C > AND A ;reset carry flag > RL C > next: DJNZ shift > LD A, C > AND (IX+2) > LD (HL), A > LD A, C > CPL > AND (IX+3) > OR (HL) > LD (HL),A > RET > data: DEFB 0,0,ink, paper > > Save you a JR in your loop. Also, to optimise code don't use IX or IY and > use pre-computed tables as much as possible. Er, . . nah, lost me, what sort of tables? Anyway, forget that, what I could do is hard code the ink and paper, effectively, by, when colour change is required, use those fun self-modifying code techniques to change the code itself: LD IX, data LD A, (DE) LD B, 4 shift: RLCA JR C, ink paper: RL C AND A ; reset carry flag RL C DJNZ shift LD A, C icolor1:AND 0 LD (HL), A LD A, C CPL pcolor1:AND 0 OR (HL) LD (HL),A RET ink: RL C SCF RL C DJNZ shift LD A, C icolor2:AND 0 LD (HL), A LD A, C CPL pcolor2:AND 0 OR (HL) LD (HL),A RET data: DEFB 0,0 I've also switched the ink and paper routines, since, in general, there will be more ink doublets than paper doublets, generally, in a character set. However, I'd originally intended to make it compact. I don't think it's important now, just, originally, it was relocateable, and had a JR NZ at the end to loop. Now it needs a JP I guess, but that's unimportant now, since I have found the routine a home (after the SCREEN1 page in section D) dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 19:39:20 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:22:10 +0100 (GMT) From: David Gommeren Subject: RE: PDASM To: Sam List In-Reply-To: <31F32BA30C1@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 0.99] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2062 Lines: 108 On Mon 15 Jan, Dave Hooper wrote: > Er, . . nah, lost me, what sort of tables? > Anyway, forget that, what I could do is hard code the ink and paper, > effectively, by, when colour change is required, use those fun > self-modifying code techniques to change the code itself: No, it is more simple. Extend the 8-bit character set using a simple routine so it takes 2 bytes per pixel-line, now you can simply use AND and OR to get the correct data into screen-memory, like this: ;Print character (primitive) ;Where BC hold in and paper (multiplied to all bits) ;Coord is a DW with X and Y .PrintChar LD BC,(Ink) LD HL,(Coord) SLA L SLA H SLA H RES 7,L SET 7,H ;RES 7,H when screen in low-mem PUSH HL LD H,0 LD L,A ADD HL,HL ADD HL,HL ADD HL,HL ADD HL,HL LD DE,Characters ;Start of extended character set ADD HL,DE POP DE EX DE,HL LD A,8 .PrintChar0 EX AF,AF' LD A,(DE) AND C LD (HL),A LD A,(DE) CPL AND B OR (HL) LD (HL),A INC L INC E LD A,(DE) AND C LD (HL),A LD A,(DE) CPL AND B OR (HL) LD (HL),A INC E LD A,127 ADD A,L LD L,A JR NC,PrintChar1 INC H .PrintChar1 EX AF,AF' DEC A JR NZ,PrintChar0 RET I am sure this can be written more efficiently, but since this code is from 1990 I am lucky I could find it at all. Anyway, the routine to extend a character-set goes like this: ;Convert Characters .ConvertChars LD DE,CharSet-256 LD HL,Characters LD BC,1024 .ConvertChars0 PUSH BC LD A,(DE) LD B,8 PUSH DE LD DE,0 .ConvertChars1 RRCA PUSH AF RR D RR E POP AF RR D RR E DJNZ ConvertChars1 LD (HL),D INC HL LD (HL),E INC HL POP DE INC DE POP BC DEC BC LD A,B OR C JR NZ,ConvertChars0 RET .CharSet #LOAD .CharSet Now I am looking through this source again I found more nice functions (like very fast scroll functions and a complete full screen editor, from which as I believe some routines were used by Edwin Blink for his assembler! David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 21:58:53 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 14:13:26 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1584 Lines: 54 >Someone said... >> > I have to agree with you. You're going to have a rather massive load of work >> > if you want to write an assembler that's better than COMET. At the >> > Gloucester shows I thought that COMET was actually going for 15 pounds - >> > considering it's even worth every single penny at 30 quid... > >Incidentally, does Comet... > * accept EX HL,DE as well as EX DE,HL? Nope. Do you accept it? ;) > * accept ADD 1 as well as ADD A,1? Yep. Not that I find this that amazingly handy. > * accept JR 1 (as an instruction to skip the next byte)? Nope. You can do a JR $+3 to get the same affect (assuming that the instruction is 1 byte - if it's two then you'll obviously need a JR $+4). At all times $ is the location of the assembly pointer (at the start of an instruction) > * assemble floating-point calculator instructions? Gulp. This was in fact one of the things Edwin still wanted to improve. It only does 16bit integers. > * assemble split IX/IY instructions? Nope. You can of course simply do a DEFB 221, LD H,n. Not as aesthetically pleasing though... > * assemble the LD/RRC and all the other undocumented DDCB instructions? Nope. Only SLL is incorporated. Once again, I don't use undocs anyway since they often lead to slower result. (I'm holding my breath expecting a massive flame ;) ) >Just curious. :-) Satisfied? :) >imc > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 21:58:59 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 14:20:05 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 602 Lines: 25 [massive bits of coding deleted] The problem is (I think), that when assembling these wierdo instrucions that the order of bytes is not totally logical. The displacement byte in the IX/IY instructions is not the last byte, but the second to last. I'm sure Ian can fill you in on that. > >What does anyone else think?? > >dave. > >PS - I think this code is correct - I'm typing from memory here. [big sig] Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 22:40:52 1996 Message-Id: <199601152239.XAA00769@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Text printing routines (was Re: PDASM) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 22:39:40 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "David Gommeren" at Jan 15, 96 08:22:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 385 Lines: 10 WEll... having seen that one, I can better it by ... oooh... I dunno. I think it's in the order of at least 128 cycles, but I've not worked it out. It's part of the (as yet unimplemented) fast colour print routine in termite... 400 tstates faster than the original routine I used. If I have time tomorrow, I'll document it... or maybe I won't -- trade secrets, you know ;) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 23:07:25 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 23:40:14 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: print routine (was RE: PDASM) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1988 Lines: 51 >On Mon 15 Jan, Dave Hooper wrote: >No, it is more simple. Extend the 8-bit character set using a simple routine so it takes 2 bytes per pixel-line, now you can simply use AND and OR to get the correct data into screen-memory, like this: > >;Print character (primitive) >;Where BC hold in and paper (multiplied to all bits) >;Coord is a DW with X and Y > LD BC,(Ink) [nice source deleted] >I am sure this can be written more efficiently, but since this code is from >1990 I am lucky I could find it at all. Anyway, the routine to extend a >character-set goes like this: One very easy major speed increase can be effected by skipping the ink/paper abilities. Sure it is nice to have colour, but when faced with a massive source I would prefer the editor to be able to output to the screen in monochrome at a much faster rate. The speed increase is approx 88tstates per character line, per printed character this results in 88*8=704 tstates. Lets say that we print half a screen (a listing with some hefty comments) this would result in 24*32 characters. The saving would then be [just switching to my calculator] a wopping big 540672 tstates! Which is approximately a whole FIVE seconds!!! (Something tells me that I've made a mistake.....) Indeed, I'm too used to thinking in frames. Theoretically a second contains 6 million tstates, so the saving is only 5 frames... but then again, how many coders would KILL for a speed increase of 5 frames! >Now I am looking through this source again I found more nice functions (like very fast scroll functions and a complete full screen editor, from which as I believe some routines were used by Edwin Blink for his assembler! As in, Edwin copied them from you, or the other way round? >David Gommeren >(gommerd@interpac.be) > > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 23:30:16 1996 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 00:00:39 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 444 Lines: 17 >imc > >(PS BIAS for the spectrum does all of the above except for the undocumented >DDCB instructions. Watch out for Sam BIAS, coming out shortly after Statues >of Ice!) Well, I did my bit for SOI. Does that mean that I get your bit of Sam BIAS? ;) Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 23:35:38 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 23:52:01 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 593 Lines: 19 >Er, . . nah, lost me, what sort of tables? >Anyway, forget that, what I could do is hard code the ink and paper, >effectively, by, when colour change is required, use those fun >self-modifying code techniques to change the code itself: Theoretically this is indeed called hard-coding, albeit a very very very mild form. (check out the burstplayer code! - see ad in BOAI for more details) >dave. > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 15 23:50:14 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 23:57:39 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 939 Lines: 29 >On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:22:09 +0000, Dave Hooper said: >> Well I've not heard of it! I'll look around, thanks! > >Uuencode is a standard unix command, but it exists on the PC as well in some >form or other. > >> But, right, does anyone mind me emailing up a screenshot? Otherwise, >> how else will anyone get to see any of my stuff > >Unless you put it on nvg, I suppose... [Brian mode on] Indeed! Definitely do not mail it onto this list. Not everybody has FREE access to the Internet and they definitely do not want to be paying for massive (-ish) files that they did not ask for! [Brian mode off] So simply post it up to nvg. Or if someone was REALLY interested they could contact you and you could send a private email to them. >imc > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 02:13:53 1996 Message-Id: <30FB06D8.6EB18C7A@RMnet.it> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 03:00:56 +0100 From: "A.D.R." Organization: AR - Servizi Informatici X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b5 (X11; I; Linux 1.2.8 i486) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Cc: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SAM Elite References: <199512130928.KAA32193@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1211 Lines: 27 Simon Cooke wrote: [Regarding SAM Elite] > > > Is it really that much of a bodge? I know the disc drive is dubious, > > but at least it's cheap for a 2nd drive.... > > Yep, it is that much of a bodge.. You wouldn't believe the amount of crap > that has to be done to the board inside to get (a) the parallel socket > wired up & working and (b) to swap the drives over... :( I'm sorry to contradict you but you have probably seen some prerelease version, because the SAM Elite of my sister is as neat inside as my old (Jan 90) SAM Coupe, there is just a small sister board in the slot for the second drive for the parallel interface and on the right the vertical IF board with the disk controller. The Motherboard itself seems the same as the original or at least the changes are not visible (there are no patch wires or anything else soldered afterwards on it). _ (_ i a o, Arne +==============================================================+ | Arne Di Russo - IRC: Balbo, #phonecards #linux | | Roma, Italy - ar@RMnet.it (mc8189@mclink.it adr@iol.it) | +==============================================================+ \...................> powered by LINUX <...................../ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 13:08:37 1996 Message-Id: <199601161306.OAA07470@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:06:27 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9601151553.AA01187@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 15, 96 04:53:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 250 Lines: 7 > (PS BIAS for the spectrum does all of the above except for the undocumented > DDCB instructions. Watch out for Sam BIAS, coming out shortly after Statues > of Ice!) So that's a provisional release date of 2057 then? Give or take a year ;) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 13:08:37 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:10:55 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <331D4B1422B@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 579 Lines: 18 Ian Collier waffled thus: > On Mon, 15 Jan 96 14:20:05 MET, Stefan Drissen said: > > The problem is (I think), that when assembling these wierdo instrucions that > > the order of bytes is not totally logical. The displacement byte in the > > IX/IY instructions is not the last byte, but the second to last. > > > I'm sure Ian can fill you in on that. > > It's true. Nothing much to fill. > > Example: RRC (HL) CB 0E > RRC (IY+3) FD CB 03 0E > Genius! Just what I needed! Where did you get this information on undocumented commands anyway? dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 13:08:46 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: EMC regs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:05:25 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9601151240.AA00763@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 15, 96 01:40:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 312 Lines: 9 > > I'm not > > a physicist, but what would spraying the inside of the case with electro- > > conductive paint and grounding it do? > > Make it very expensive. :-) Maybe, but what of the idea? - there are alternatives such as copper sheet. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 13:25:03 1996 Message-Id: <199601161320.OAA07664@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:20:07 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <31CF7B8215C@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 04:19:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1170 Lines: 35 [Case sensitive decodes] > Does this find favour with you lot? > No it does not :( I'll consider uploading the ASCII--> COMET part of the COMET2ASCII source some time... but all you have to do is this. Set start of line flag. Check first character: Is it whitespace? (Tab or space) If so, skip it, and set "next thing we decode should be a label" flag If not, then the text is part of a label. Text remains part of a label until you reach a colon (:) or some whitespace. Labels should never be tokens; leads to too much confusion. There's a similar trick for decoding line delimiters: Check current char: is it a CR? If so, peek at the NEXT char. If it's another CR, end of line, print it, advance to this second CR and start over again. If the next char is a LF, advance past this LF, we've got the end of the line, so print it, and start over. is it a LF? if so, end of line, print it, whatever, go on to next char. This method handles lines terminated with CR, CR+LF or just LF perfectly fine, as long as the file is self-consistent with its usage. IF it's not, there will be the odd blank line where the method used changes. Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 13:25:20 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:19:12 +0000 Subject: RE: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <331F80C4430@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1443 Lines: 30 Does anyone really need multiple windows anyway? I was trying to figure this out last night, nothing else to do. IO mean, how many files would anyone want to edit / assemble at the same time? I think 4's a sensible limit - anyone think otherwise? PDASM, when finished (like, if ever) will have UP TO 15 text windows open. That includes error message windows (one for each edit window - ie, a MAXIMUM of editting 7 sources, with 7 error windows, and one, like, something else.) It currently looks very BORLAND-esque, what with the full IBM charset implemented to get all those lines and boxes and things, and the screen being grey, blue, green and yello. Anyone minds about that? Errmm... I think mouse support would be handy, but I can't do it, what with not being clever enough or, indeed, owning a mouse. In fact, I've only got 256K anyway. So, I think PDASM will be able to assemble to disk. That way, you can edit sources, but when it comes to assembling, it won't run out of memory from all the number of massive sources currently stored within. As an option, of course. Anyway, I know very little, so tell me what a common TEXT-ONLY source file SIZE is, say, a maximum. 20K? more? I might just get the basic PDASM written (ie, windowing engine & assembler & editor, but nothing fancy, can't be bothered with undocumented commands anymore) and post it up, along with the source. Get you people to make it good. dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 13:25:39 1996 Message-Id: <199601161314.OAA07549@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:13:59 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <31C98A76104@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 03:57:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 382 Lines: 15 > Also, it compiles > RLCA > and > RLC A > differently (7 and 237,7 respectively (I think), like it should) Ummm...are there any z80 assemblers which don't do that? > The screen looks quite nice, with a popup menu when you press EDIT, > and no menu bar at the top, multiple windows... oooh! > You can even change the colors! Oooooh (?) sounds like Termite so far ;) > dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 13:29:23 1996 Message-Id: <199601161327.OAA07755@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:26:48 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9601161257.AA02170@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 16, 96 01:57:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 316 Lines: 15 > > It can be even shorter than that. Instead of storing ink in C and paper > in B, store "ink xor paper" in C and paper in B and do this: > > LD A,(DE) > AND C > XOR B > LD (HL),A. > > imc Which is similar (but not identical) to the way that my super fast colour print routine works ;) Simon From imc Tue Jan 16 13:36:56 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 13:36:56 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Stefan Drissen" at Jan 15, 96 2:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 738 Lines: 22 On Mon, 15 Jan 96 14:13:26 MET, Stefan Drissen said: > >Incidentally, does Comet... > > * accept EX HL,DE as well as EX DE,HL? > Nope. Do you accept it? ;) As I mentioned, BIAS does all of these things except the undocumented CB instructions. Actually, Andrew was complaining about this because he never remembers the correct order. > Nope. Only SLL is incorporated. Once again, I don't use undocs anyway since > they often lead to slower result. (I'm holding my breath expecting a massive > flame ;) ) Never had a use for SLL or the other CB ops myself (though they are no slower than other CB ones. Of course they don't work on later models). > Satisfied? :) That my assembler will be better than Comet... heh :-) imc From imc Tue Jan 16 13:39:40 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 13:39:40 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Stefan Drissen" at Jan 15, 96 2:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 428 Lines: 13 On Mon, 15 Jan 96 14:20:05 MET, Stefan Drissen said: > The problem is (I think), that when assembling these wierdo instrucions that > the order of bytes is not totally logical. The displacement byte in the > IX/IY instructions is not the last byte, but the second to last. > I'm sure Ian can fill you in on that. It's true. Nothing much to fill. Example: RRC (HL) CB 0E RRC (IY+3) FD CB 03 0E imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 13:39:54 1996 Message-Id: From: geoffw@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff Winkless) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:36:19 +0000 In-Reply-To: Ian.Collier -- "RE: PDASM" (Jan 15, 1:50pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: PDASM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1148 Lines: 42 On Jan 15, 1:50pm in "RE: PDASM", warbled: ] Incidentally, does Comet... ] ] * accept EX HL,DE as well as EX DE,HL? Why should it??? The instruction is ex de,hl. That's like saying "Does it accept MOV 1, A"... ] * accept ADD 1 as well as ADD A,1? The correct z80 instruction is in fact add 1. And IIRC it does both. ] * accept JR 1 (as an instruction to skip the next byte)? Probably not. You can't have it both ways. You can do $+1, though, I expect. ] * assemble floating-point calculator instructions? What floating-point calculator instructions? You mean the Sam's? What's wrong with RSTs and EQUBs? ] * assemble split IX/IY instructions? No, that irritates me. But you can still do EQUB DD, which since the instructions are undocumented in any case seems best, as then you are drawn to the fact that it shouldn't really be done. ] * assemble the LD/RRC and all the other undocumented DDCB instructions? See above. The way I see it is that you should have to fiddle to get to instructions that you shouldn't be using. ] Just curious. :-) Mmmm. [Jumper is soooo much faster now it has another 4M of RAM... :)] -- Geoff From imc Tue Jan 16 13:50:44 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 13:50:44 MET In-Reply-To: <31EEBD60740@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 15, 96 6:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1498 Lines: 50 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 18:16:29 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > Ian Collier: Blame him: > > > > ldc,(ix+data0-ix) > I'm sorry? Run that by me again. . .ix is a . . . 'VARIABLE'. . ? > Is this a feature of BIAS or do you mean register (no probably not), Variable, label, constant - what does it matter? The fact is I could change its value in mid-assembly if I particularly wanted, although obviously once an instruction has been assembled it can't change. > what DO you mean? Or am I being thick? > I mean, basically, does this do the following: > LD C, (IX+data0-ix) That's the one. > In the second: This would only work provided the offset value equal > to 'data0' minus 'ix' is containable within an 8bit field > (ie, 0 <= data0-ix <= 255) True. > In which case, why not 'just' call the label data0ix, or, what are > you doing? Because that's an extra label that I have to set. Example .ix ; this is the value that IX will get set to .data0 defw 0 ; some address or other .len0 defw 0 ; some value or other .time0 nop ; some constant or other blah blah blah ld ix,+ix ; set IX to its value ld c,(ix+len0-ix) ; fetch the value of len0 ld b,(ix+len0+1-ix) sub (ix+time0-ix) ; subtract the value of time0 blah blah blah imc PS Incidentally there is a bug in BIAS that means that when you type "ld a,(ixfoo)" it gets interpreted as "ld a,(ix+foo)". From imc Tue Jan 16 13:57:19 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 13:57:19 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "David Gommeren" at Jan 15, 96 8:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 654 Lines: 26 On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:22:10 +0100 (GMT), David Gommeren said: > No, it is more simple. Extend the 8-bit character set using a simple LD A,(DE) > AND C > LD (HL),A > LD A,(DE) > CPL > AND B > OR (HL) > LD (HL),A It can be even shorter than that. Instead of storing ink in C and paper in B, store "ink xor paper" in C and paper in B and do this: LD A,(DE) AND C XOR B LD (HL),A. imc From imc Tue Jan 16 14:09:59 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 14:09:59 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Stefan Drissen" at Jan 16, 96 12:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 403 Lines: 12 On Tue, 16 Jan 96 00:00:39 MET, Stefan Drissen said: > Well, I did my bit for SOI. Does that mean that I get your bit of Sam BIAS? > ;) You can have that bit of Sam BIAS which is called Spectrum BIAS and available from nvg. :-) Or, I could put up a test program I wrote which can assemble any instruction of the form "LD r,r" (where r is one of ABCDEHL) by printing its opcode on the screen... imc From imc Tue Jan 16 14:13:49 1996 Subject: Re: EMC regs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 14:13:49 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Andrew M Gale" at Jan 16, 96 1:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 464 Lines: 10 On Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:05:25 +0000 (GMT), Andrew M Gale said: > Maybe, but what of the idea? - there are alternatives such as copper sheet. Well it was reported on Radio 4's "Science Now" several months or years ago that there were new innovations in EM shielding which were cheaper than the alternatives (namely conductive paint or copper-coated material), so it must be a fairly common procedure. I have no idea what happened to those innovations though. imc From imc Tue Jan 16 14:19:32 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 14:19:32 MET In-Reply-To: <331D4B1422B@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 16, 96 1:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 447 Lines: 15 On Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:10:55 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > Ian Collier waffled thus: > > Example: RRC (HL) CB 0E > > RRC (IY+3) FD CB 03 0E > Genius! Just what I needed! > Where did you get this information on undocumented commands anyway? The above isn't undocumented and should be found in any officiall instruction list. The undocumented ones are generally found out by just trying them out and seeing what happens. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 14:42:47 1996 Message-Id: <199601161438.PAA08842@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:37:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9601161352.AA02435@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 16, 96 02:52:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 562 Lines: 13 > Nothing, except that you have to fiddle around with the tecnhical manual to > look them up and then when you get back to your program a week later you > have forgotten what they all mean. Also, EQUB looks like nonsense to me > (I don't care if Comet accepts it). The correct word is DEFB. :-) I don't think Comet /does/ assemble it actually... I think Geoff's in ARM mode ;) I miss DEFC though, (clear area instead of just define space for it), and allowing DEFB "text",05 or DEFM "TEXT"+&80 would be better... but that's just for ease of use. Simon From imc Tue Jan 16 14:52:01 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 14:52:01 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Geoff Winkless" at Jan 16, 96 1:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1387 Lines: 40 On Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:36:19 +0000, Geoff Winkless said: > ] * accept EX HL,DE as well as EX DE,HL? > Why should it??? The instruction is ex de,hl. That's like saying > "Does it accept MOV 1, A"... No it's not. Moving A into 1 is nonsense, whereas exchanging HL with DE would on the face of it appear to mean the same thing as exchanging DE with HL. I'm trained now to type the right one, but there are lots of people who aren't (including myself when I was younger). > ] * accept ADD 1 as well as ADD A,1? > The correct z80 instruction is in fact add 1. And IIRC it does both. The correct z80 instruction is in fact ADD A,1. I have at least two references which say so. > ] * accept JR 1 (as an instruction to skip the next byte)? > Probably not. You can't have it both ways. Yes you can. > You can do $+1, though, I > expect. OK if you can remember what '$' means. :-) > ] * assemble floating-point calculator instructions? > What floating-point calculator instructions? You mean the Sam's? What's > wrong with RSTs and EQUBs? Nothing, except that you have to fiddle around with the tecnhical manual to look them up and then when you get back to your program a week later you have forgotten what they all mean. Also, EQUB looks like nonsense to me (I don't care if Comet accepts it). The correct word is DEFB. :-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 15:05:48 1996 Message-Id: <199601161501.QAA09111@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Fast print routine... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 15:01:08 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3655 Lines: 135 Hi all... THE "BUTTERFLY" MODE 3 COLOUR PRINTING ROUTINE - AS OPTIMISED AS IT CAN POSSIBLY BE DONE! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- This one requires you to have stored two copies of the expanded font data in memory -- for 256 characters (full IBM set, VT100 set with expanded graphics, etc) it takes 8K, but that's fortunately exactly the amount of space at the end of the screen, so it's possible to write a small piece of code which expands it from the 2048 byte original compressed format (ie 1 bit per pixel, SAM standard). The expanded data has to be stored in a slightly eclectic order, but never mind that; it's not too hard to create from the original data. And the expansion routine doesn't have to be fast; it's not critical. The print routine, however, does... (Damn.. Termite won't look half as surprisingly fast as it should do if I give this away... ho hum... :( ) You print somewhat like this (DE=screen address to print to, HL = font address, B = paper xor ink, C = paper (may be ink - can't remember - doesn't matter too much anyway; easily fixed if it's wrong)) LD A,B AND (HL) INC L XOR C LD (DE),A ;line zero, 1st half INC D LD A,B AND (HL) INC L XOR C LD (DE),A ;line two, 1st half INC D LD A,B AND (HL) INC L XOR C LD (DE),A ;line four, 1st half INC D LD A,B AND (HL) INC L XOR C LD (DE),A ;line six, 1st half SET 7,E ;moves down a line... LD A,B AND (HL) INC L XOR C LD (DE),A ;line seven, 1st half DEC D LD A,B AND (HL) INC L XOR C LD (DE),A ;line five, 1st half DEC D LD A,B AND (HL) INC L XOR C LD (DE),A ;line three, 1st half DEC D LD A,B AND (HL) INC L XOR C LD (DE),A ;line one, 1st half INC E LD (scraddr+1),DE LD A,B AND (HL) INC L XOR C EXX ;now we need more registers (for masking the existing screen ;data as well) so we start using the exchange set... LD D,&F0 scraddr:LD HL,&0000 ;self modifying... XOR (HL) AND D XOR (HL) LD (HL),A ;line one, 2nd half INC H EXX LD A,B AND (HL) INC L XOR C EXX XOR (HL) AND D XOR (HL) LD (HL),A ;line 3, 2nd half INC H EXX etc etc.... You write to the screen in the order: (1st half doesn't need masking; the 2nd half does...) line 0, 1st half line 2, 1st half line 4, 1st half line 6, 1st half line 7, 1st half line 5, 1st half line 3, 1st half line 1, 1st half line 1, 2nd half line 3, 2nd half line 5, 2nd half line 7, 2nd half line 6, 2nd half line 4, 2nd half line 2, 2nd half line 0, 2nd half (increment and STORE screen address for next character to be printed!!! -- used to remove the need for recalculation in some printing circumstances!) That's just the left hand character of course. The right hand character should be printed from right to left, starting with the 2nd half, then the 1st half, as it will save time on the half which doesn't require masking... Hope that's of use. Pick holes in it if you will; I don't think it can be optimised further (or if it can, I've already got it in my notes..) (just checked my notes; I don't think it can be... even LD E,(HL):XOR E:AND D:XOR E results in a slightly longer print in the masked part) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 15:10:08 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 15:03:30 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <331F80C4430@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 16, 96 01:19:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 399 Lines: 10 > So, I think PDASM will be able to assemble to disk. That way, you can > edit sources, but when it comes to assembling, it won't run out of > memory from all the number of massive sources currently stored > within. As an option, of course. That's a nice idea.... there was an assembler for the C64 that used to assemble to/from disc. And if you've ever seen how slow a C64 disc drive is..... From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 16:13:56 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:04:36 +0000 Subject: Re: PDASM Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <334B96E6D67@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 776 Lines: 21 Andrew M Gale wrote: > > So, I think PDASM will be able to assemble to disk. That way, you can > > edit sources, but when it comes to assembling, it won't run out of > > memory from all the number of massive sources currently stored > > within. As an option, of course. > > That's a nice idea.... there was an assembler for the C64 that used > to assemble to/from disc. And if you've ever seen how slow a C64 > disc drive is..... Is this sarcasm? ;) Or do you really think it's a nice idea? Y'see, I only have 256K so I want to make the most (best) of it. If I had a Meg or two, I'd use that to store the source in or whatever, but I don't. Anyway, when PDASM v1.00 is done, and believe me, it'll be really really very crap, someone else can do the fun stuff. dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 16:52:53 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:33:46 +0000 Subject: Re: Fast print routine... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <33535E70EA7@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 373 Lines: 12 Good, good, good. However, I think this is for an 85-character display. PDASM is 64 character! (I'll just repeat the first bit of code though, so no problems there) >From anyone else's point of view, how much space would they *USE* when using an assembler. I mean, if PDASM is 32K in length (+8K for a font ;) )then no-one's going to say it's too big, are they? dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 17:32:15 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 17:31:26 +0000 Subject: PDASM - I give up. Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <3362BE0458E@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 450 Lines: 11 Oh I can't be bothered anymore. I'll leave it to someone else to write PDASM, probably with all the stuff I'd want to write but just don't know how to. I'll see how far I can get, and post up the source soonish, probably, along with scraps of source for the windowing and editor. I mean, the actually assembly bit's easy! So I'll write an assembler that works from a text file stored in memory, and we'll just see what happens from there. dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 17:53:49 1996 Message-Id: <199601161723.SAA10671@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: Fast print routine... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 17:22:32 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <33535E70EA7@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 16, 96 04:33:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 883 Lines: 24 > Good, good, good. > However, I think this is for an 85-character display. > PDASM is 64 character! Eeek... forgot about that ;) Yep, you're right - it is for an 85 character display :) THe principle's the same though -- just no masking involved. > (I'll just repeat the first bit of code though, so no problems there) > > From anyone else's point of view, how much space would they *USE* > when using an assembler. > I mean, if PDASM is 32K in length (+8K for a font ;) )then no-one's > going to say it's too big, are they? > > dave. Well, the thing is that the font only takes 2K tops -- you convert it to the expanded form by some code you call when you first start printing chars to the screen... and whenever you print after calling a MASTERDOS call (it uses the free area after the screen when it directories the disk, as well as a couple of other things) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 17:53:49 1996 From: Mr Andrew M Gale Message-Id: <9601161721.AA20230@central.surrey.ac.uk> Subject: Re: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 17:21:16 GMT In-Reply-To: <334B96E6D67@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 16, 96 4:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 811 Lines: 21 > > > So, I think PDASM will be able to assemble to disk. That way, you can > > > edit sources, but when it comes to assembling, it won't run out of > > > memory from all the number of massive sources currently stored > > > within. As an option, of course. > > > > That's a nice idea.... there was an assembler for the C64 that used > > to assemble to/from disc. And if you've ever seen how slow a C64 > > disc drive is..... > > Is this sarcasm? ;) > Or do you really think it's a nice idea? > Y'see, I only have 256K so I want to make the most (best) of it. > If I had a Meg or two, I'd use that to store the source in or > whatever, but I don't. No, not at all! It's a good solution, and no problem with the SAM. The C64 is a different matter, though - upto a minute to load 64K! That was all... -AG From imc Tue Jan 16 19:03:37 1996 Subject: Re: Fast print routine... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 19:03:37 MET In-Reply-To: <199601161723.SAA10671@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no>; from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 16, 96 5:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 566 Lines: 13 On Tue, 16 Jan 1996 17:22:32 +0100 (MET), Simon Cooke said: > Well, the thing is that the font only takes 2K tops -- you convert it to > the expanded form by some code you call when you first start printing > chars to the screen... and whenever you print after calling a MASTERDOS > call (it uses the free area after the screen when it directories the > disk, as well as a couple of other things) Eek! ;-) Part of this area is also used by BASIC to store the palette if you switch screens. So making sure BASIC can't switch screens to it is a good idea. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 22:37:28 1996 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 23:28:10 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: Re: Fast print routine... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 661 Lines: 20 >From anyone else's point of view, how much space would they *USE* >when using an assembler. >I mean, if PDASM is 32K in length (+8K for a font ;) )then no-one's >going to say it's too big, are they? 32k would of course be a nice size (including font - but since this is in the screen page it doesn't really count). If you have the rather funky assemble to disc option (or even better also an assemble from disc option) then the size is not too critical. >dave. > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 22:57:21 1996 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 23:17:57 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: COMET improvements (was Re: PDASM) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1103 Lines: 37 >I miss DEFC though, (clear area instead of just define space for it), and >allowing DEFB "text",05 or DEFM "TEXT"+&80 would be better... but that's >just for ease of use. > >Simon True. I would also like an ALIGN command, letting all your tables or routines or whatever start on an even byte or on a 256 byte boundary. This also an ease of use feature since you can of course do: DEFS $/256+1*256 vol.table: DEFS 256*32 ;I wonder where this comes from? ;) Where the 256 is the ALIGN value. This does however waste the ALIGN space if you are already situated on a boundary value. Hmmmm. How about this then: DEFS $-1/256+1*256 vol.table: DEFS 256*32 ;it wouldn't be the mod player would it? ;) Yep, this is it - it should work in all cases except when trying to do this at address &0000. But this is hardly an address that pops up somewhere in the middle of your code is it??? goodnight, Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 23:17:32 1996 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 23:05:56 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: RE: Fast print routine... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1645 Lines: 55 >Hi all... > >THE "BUTTERFLY" MODE 3 COLOUR PRINTING ROUTINE - AS OPTIMISED AS IT CAN >POSSIBLY BE DONE! BEAUTIFUL ROUTINE!!! > EXX ;now we need more registers (for masking the existing screen > ;data as well) so we start using the exchange set... > LD D,&F0 >scraddr:LD HL,&0000 ;self modifying... > XOR (HL) > AND D > XOR (HL) <-+ | | What's the point of this bit though? Wouldn't the following do the same and be somewhat faster: LD D,&0F LD HL,&0000 LD A,(HL) AND D LD (HL),A I'm trying to find some mistake in my reasoning here.... But as far as I can see it the sole purpose of the XOR (HL), AND D, XOR (HL), LD (HL),A is to clear the right half of the position at which the right third of the character is to be printed. This speed improvement can't be this simple, can it? I'm saving you one (HL) command, thus saving 8 tstates * 8 lines = 64 tstates per character. (And that with such a childish alteration...) >Hope that's of use. Pick holes in it if you will; I don't think it can be >optimised further (or if it can, I've already got it in my notes..) I'm starting to think that you simply made an error in typing that source up. For the rest it's a lovely routine though. :) :) :) >(just checked my notes; I don't think it can be... even LD E,(HL):XOR >E:AND D:XOR E results in a slightly longer print in the masked part) > >Simon > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 23:18:55 1996 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 23:30:31 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1829 Lines: 50 >On Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:36:19 +0000, Geoff Winkless said: >> ] * accept EX HL,DE as well as EX DE,HL? > >> Why should it??? The instruction is ex de,hl. That's like saying >> "Does it accept MOV 1, A"... > >No it's not. Moving A into 1 is nonsense, whereas exchanging HL with DE >would on the face of it appear to mean the same thing as exchanging DE >with HL. I'm trained now to type the right one, but there are lots of >people who aren't (including myself when I was younger). I always thought that remembering it as being alphabetically ordered made it somewhat easy... >> ] * accept ADD 1 as well as ADD A,1? > >> The correct z80 instruction is in fact add 1. And IIRC it does both. > >The correct z80 instruction is in fact ADD A,1. I have at least two >references which say so. I have a couple of references saying that it is indeed ADD A,1 too. Dave's confusing it with SUB n I think. Where the register is left out since there is no SUB HL command. >> ] * assemble floating-point calculator instructions? > >> What floating-point calculator instructions? You mean the Sam's? What's >> wrong with RSTs and EQUBs? > >Nothing, except that you have to fiddle around with the tecnhical manual to >look them up and then when you get back to your program a week later you >have forgotten what they all mean. Also, EQUB looks like nonsense to me >(I don't care if Comet accepts it). The correct word is DEFB. :-) How about defining them at the start (or end) of your source as constants. Thus: ADDM EQU 1 (or whatever, since I haven't got a clue what the values (or instructions) are off the top of my head. >imc > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 16 23:58:27 1996 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 00:32:14 +0100 (GMT) From: David Gommeren Subject: Re: print routine (was RE: PDASM) To: Sam List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 0.99] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 586 Lines: 17 On Tue 16 Jan, Stefan Drissen wrote: > >Now I am looking through this source again I found more nice functions (like > very fast scroll functions and a complete full screen editor, from which as I > believe some routines were used by Edwin Blink for his assembler! > > As in, Edwin copied them from you, or the other way round? > > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy Nope, I think I let Edwin use some routines from my editor (at least, I let him look at the source, I can't check whether he actually used them), but then, who cares. David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 17 00:17:50 1996 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 00:23:48 +0100 (GMT) From: David Gommeren Subject: RE: PDASM To: Sam List In-Reply-To: <9601161257.AA02170@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 0.99] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 867 Lines: 28 On Tue 16 Jan, Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:22:10 +0100 (GMT), David Gommeren said: > > No, it is more simple. Extend the 8-bit character set using a simple > > I have formatted the above for you. It would be helpful if you could do it > in future. Thanks. Sorry, for me it's not important to format text, but I always try to do so, this time I forgot :) > It can be even shorter than that. Instead of storing ink in C and paper > in B, store "ink xor paper" in C and paper in B and do this: > > LD A,(DE) > AND C > XOR B > LD (HL),A. > > imc I realised this just before I read this mail, unfortunately not a couple of years ago :( David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 17 07:48:39 1996 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 07:06:54 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <12961@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: PDASM X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 107 Lines: 7 PLEASE Do not mail to the group with UUS stuff, anless its short! Thanks. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 17 07:50:22 1996 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 07:10:31 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <12962@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: EMC regs X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 313 Lines: 13 The problem with SAM, excluding add ons, is the keyboard. Being mounted on the outside of the case as it is, you can spray vonductive paint where you like and the radiation will still be there. I think I will go into making sound mixers for analohue signals, no radiation then! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 17 11:34:16 1996 Message-Id: <199601171132.MAA20214@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: Fast print routine... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:32:34 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Stefan Drissen" at Jan 16, 96 11:05:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1916 Lines: 70 > > > >Hi all... > > > >THE "BUTTERFLY" MODE 3 COLOUR PRINTING ROUTINE - AS OPTIMISED AS IT CAN > >POSSIBLY BE DONE! > > BEAUTIFUL ROUTINE!!! Thanks ;) > > EXX ;now we need more registers (for masking the existing screen > > ;data as well) so we start using the exchange set... > > LD D,&F0 > >scraddr:LD HL,&0000 ;self modifying... > > XOR (HL) > > AND D > > XOR (HL) <-+ > | > | > What's the point of this bit though? Wouldn't the following do the same and > be somewhat faster: > > LD D,&0F > LD HL,&0000 > LD A,(HL) > AND D > LD (HL),A > > I'm trying to find some mistake in my reasoning here.... Well... all that your one would do is to get the screen contents, mask out the left hand side, replace the screen contents... so you'd just get a blank on the left hand side. Mine (in 3 instructions) masks off the left hand side, OR's the font with the screen data, and writes it back to the screen, thus printing the character data ;) (You've got to remember that the font data is still in A when it gets to the first XOR) Nifty eh? > But as far as I can see it the sole purpose of the XOR (HL), AND D, XOR (HL), > LD (HL),A is to clear the right half of the position at which the right > third of the character is to be printed. > > This speed improvement can't be this simple, can it? Nope! The only one I could come up with would be: LD E,(HL) XOR E AND D XOR E LD (HL),A but it'd be longer than the two XOR(HL)'s... > I'm saving you one (HL) command, thus saving 8 tstates * 8 lines = 64 tstates > per character. (And that with such a childish alteration...) > And the best thing is that it'll print 85 chars per line as fast as most routines will print 64 per line :) (because of the butterfly method of printing it to the screen -- up and down, to the side, then down and up) Simon From imc Wed Jan 17 13:33:06 1996 Subject: Re: COMET improvements (was Re: PDASM) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 13:33:06 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Stefan Drissen" at Jan 16, 96 11:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 139 Lines: 6 On Tue, 16 Jan 96 23:17:57 MET, Stefan Drissen said: > DEFS $/256+1*256 Does COMET not have proper operator precedence? YACK! ;-) imc From imc Wed Jan 17 13:34:28 1996 Subject: RE: PDASM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 13:34:28 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Stefan Drissen" at Jan 16, 96 11:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 455 Lines: 16 On Tue, 16 Jan 96 23:30:31 MET, Stefan Drissen said: [about EX DE,HL]? > I always thought that remembering it as being alphabetically ordered made it > somewhat easy... EX (SP),HL is not in alphabetical order though! > How about defining them at the start (or end) of your source as constants. > Thus: > ADDM EQU 1 (or whatever, since I haven't got a clue what the > values (or instructions) are off the top of my head. A lot of typing! ;-) imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 17 13:51:51 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 13:26:54 +0000 Subject: Re: COMET improvements (was Re: PDASM) Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <34A198C4094@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 318 Lines: 12 > On Tue, 16 Jan 96 23:17:57 MET, Stefan Drissen said: > > DEFS $/256+1*256 > > Does COMET not have proper operator precedence? YACK! ;-) > If it's any consolation, PDASM only has + and -, but also #l and #h to represent the low and high bytes respectively ie, the above would read DEFS 256-$#l (I expect) dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 17 19:07:08 1996 Message-Id: <199601171905.UAA26384@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Butterfly print test... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 19:04:46 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 140 Lines: 8 Hi All.. Ends up that the Butterfly Printer speeds up Termite by at least a factor of 3 (just implemented it!) *smiles* Brill eh? Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 17 21:42:20 1996 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 16:22:59 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: Re: Fast print routine... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1325 Lines: 39 >> I'm trying to find some mistake in my reasoning here.... > >Well... all that your one would do is to get the screen contents, mask >out the left hand side, replace the screen contents... so you'd just get >a blank on the left hand side. Oops! I thought that the routine for the right half didn't start until after the LD HL,0000 bit (silly, silly!). I had another look at the routine before I got your explanation - I thought it was definitely bugged! 8) >Mine (in 3 instructions) masks off the left hand side, OR's the font with >the screen data, and writes it back to the screen, thus printing the >character data ;) >(You've got to remember that the font data is still in A when it gets to >the first XOR) That's the big I missed... >Nifty eh? Incredibly. >And the best thing is that it'll print 85 chars per line as fast as most >routines will print 64 per line :) (because of the butterfly method of >printing it to the screen -- up and down, to the side, then down and up) I was wondering where the butterfly bit came from - I thought that Martin van Spanje was more of a graphicy type person. :) >Simon > Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy E-mail: drissen@pi.net, http://www.pi.net/~drissen S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands T-mail: +31-73-6414969 From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 18 13:54:31 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:11:51 +0000 Subject: Re: Butterfly . . . Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <361DB1A2758@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 437 Lines: 15 Simon Cooke said sommat like: > Ends up that the Butterfly Printer speeds up Termite by at least a factor > of 3 (just implemented it!) So, how fast would it be with a monochrome Butterfly printer? (ignoring colours, and using whatever doublets are set in the expanded font - presumably 0 and 3) It would in theory be possible to store the entire font once for EACH AND EVERY colour combination - that'd be EVEN FASTER! ;) dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 18 14:07:22 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:28:20 +0000 Subject: PDASM (still) Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <362200608E5@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1552 Lines: 44 Regarding source file conventions. . . Is there some sort of *STANDARD* standard for source files? Because some seem to use .label for defining labels, others use label:, etc. I was actually wondering what the standard was for defining 'the following literal is to be interpreted as hexidecimal) Some use 5A00%, 5A00$, $5A00, #5A00, 5A00h, etc. PDASM will use #5A00 (that's 'hash' if it screws up) if that's ok. Labels must start with an ALPHABETIC character, and end with a colon. Lines can terminate with CR, CR/LF or LF (thanks Simon!) Also, what does the DISP directive *ACTUALLY* do? PDASM won't support it, since it assembles to/from disk. That way, the object code is stored on disk rather than in memory, so it doesn't require a displacement from the assembly address. Thus, ORG sets the address that the code should LOAD at to run properly. (the actual 'ASSEMBLE' address is undefined, since it assembles to disk) DEFM will require quotes surrounding the text defined eg, DEFM "hello world","foo" PDASM shouldn't *normally* mind too much about extra spacing. Some lines, when assembled, will give WARNING messages, rather than error messages, eg FISH EQU 99 BASEBALL Will give the WARNING: FISH EQU 99 rest of line ignored ANY directive can also take a label, except ORG eg, DEFS DONKEY SPOON EQU MOUSE+HENRY#l (the latter calculating the least-significant byte of HENRY and adding it to mouse. Similarly, #h calculates the most-significant byte. This can apply to literals too, eg: LD D,65512#h or LD E, (IX+#5A00#l) ) dave. From imc Thu Jan 18 15:32:27 1996 Subject: Re: PDASM (still) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 15:32:27 MET In-Reply-To: <362200608E5@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 18, 96 1:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1879 Lines: 38 On Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:28:20 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > Because some seem to use .label for defining labels, others use > label:, etc. There are two main conventions. 1 Tabulated. If the first character on a line is nonblank then it is the name of a label. If it is blank then anything following is source and will usually be printed out in a column to the right of the labels. 2 Ending with a colon. If the first word of a line ends with a colon then it is a label. Source using this convention need not be tabulated in order to be understood by the assembler, but it often is for reasons of neatness. Starting a label with a dot was used on the assembler on the BBC micro, and then on BIAS. The reason for this is that neither of the above two methods is suitable given that BASIC largely ignores spaces and has colons as normal statement terminators. None of the above is any more "standard" than the other, although printed- out source tends to be tabulated for neatness and hence doesn't need colons or dots to distinguish the labels. > I was actually wondering what the standard was for defining 'the > following literal is to be interpreted as hexidecimal) > Some use 5A00%, 5A00$, $5A00, #5A00, 5A00h, etc. Since Sam BASIC uses '&' for this purpose (probably copying BBC BASIC), it would probably be silly not to use this for the assembler without a good reason. (Although BIAS copied many things from BBC BASIC - including the '&' for a short time - it eventually ended up using '$' because the '&' is used for a logical-AND operator). The other main contenders are $5A00 (various), #5A00 (MONS and GENS), 5A00h (various) and 0x5A00 (C and certain Unix assemblers). I have never seen 5A00% or 5A00# used. The problem with 5A00h is that if your hex number starts with a letter you have to remember to put an extra 0 in front of it. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 18 16:13:36 1996 From: Mr Andrew M Gale Message-Id: <9601181518.AA05789@central.surrey.ac.uk> Subject: Re: PDASM (still) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 15:18:43 GMT In-Reply-To: <362200608E5@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk>; from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 18, 96 1:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 379 Lines: 9 Personally I hate using a hash # symbol to denote hex numbers. The reason for this is because I was weaned on the 6502 where you used a $ or & for a hex number, and if you meant that number as direct data then you preceeded it with a hash - so $ffff was memory location 65535 but #$ffff was the number 65535. But enough whingeing... we're not using the 6502, are we?! -Andrew From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 18 17:21:44 1996 Message-Id: <199601181558.QAA06270@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: Butterfly . . . To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:58:16 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <361DB1A2758@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 18, 96 01:11:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1083 Lines: 30 > Simon Cooke said sommat like: > > > Ends up that the Butterfly Printer speeds up Termite by at least a factor > > of 3 (just implemented it!) > > So, how fast would it be with a monochrome Butterfly printer? > (ignoring colours, and using whatever doublets are set in the > expanded font - presumably 0 and 3) Hmmm... not sure. I may give it as an option, but is it worth even considering? I'm having to weigh up space vs speed a lot now... and I've got the speed at the fastest I can afford and still have flexibility. > It would in theory be possible to store the entire font once for EACH > AND EVERY colour combination - that'd be EVEN FASTER! But hopelessly unwieldy :( even at this stage I'm having to consider putting the terminal emulation in a separate page to the comms stuff... which is going to play havoc with stuff (well, it might). Lessee though... 16 colour variations (to avoid the need for logic we'll keep the "invalid" sets... even without them it's 12), 8K a piece... hmmm... that's a lot of memory. > ;) ^^^^ I'm glad you put that ;) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 19 19:14:24 1996 Message-Id: <201002201224.NAA00114@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Well... that's one dream gone :( To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 19:10:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 381 Lines: 15 Hi all.. Well, just added the back (mirror) screen to Termite... Oh well, my dreams of super-fast system access are gone :( But at least it's still quite fast... and now you've got a scroll-back buffer in there as well... I may still be able to optimise it; but that'll happen -when- I've finished playing with it and have added nearly all the main functions to it. Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 20 21:25:00 1996 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 11:10:40 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: PAK files To: SAM users X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1123 Lines: 29 Just thought I'd share my experience with the .PAK files. I don't know if anybody else has had problems with these files, well I couldn't get the things running. I'd load them in at 32000 and then call 32000. Sometimes this worked, more often than not you'd just end up with a reset. The trick is to load the file in at 32000 then resave it but with an autorun address of 32000: SAVE "FILE.PAK" 32000,length,32000 Apparently the archive program assumes a certain setup of the system when starting its unpak code... So all those dud files on NVG (which I mentioned a couple of months back) may actually not be dud at all.... [scurries of to find out if the dud files are still on a disc] Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | E-mail: drissen@pi.net, + * http://www.pi.net/~drissen | | S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands | | Telephone: +31-73-6414969 . * . | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 21 07:11:46 1996 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 18:32:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Si Owen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: PDASM (still) In-Reply-To: <362200608E5@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-Id: Organisation: Wordcraft International Ltd. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1572 Lines: 38 On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Dave Hooper wrote: > Lines can terminate with CR, CR/LF or LF (thanks Simon!) Do any systems end lines in only ? I thought most non-UNIX used and UNIX (and a couple of others) use just . Some programs skip the without checking if there is one there, which will eat the start of lines. > Also, what does the DISP directive *ACTUALLY* do? > PDASM won't support it, since it assembles to/from disk. > That way, the object code is stored on disk rather than in memory, so > it doesn't require a displacement from the assembly address. How does PSASM handle code assembled to run at address 0? Using an ORG and a DISP to set up for each interrupt is useful, without having to us DEFS to leave room in between (especially when making changes and not having to work out the new gap). How is that done with PDASM? Do multiple ORGs save to separate blocks, or does it save the smallest block containing all assembled sections? Just curious... > DEFM will require quotes surrounding the text defined > eg, DEFM "hello world","foo" Do many assemblers accept DEFM "some text"+128 ? It annoys me having to put this as separate items, or even split over multiple lines! (like HiSoft DevPac). > dave. Si +------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | Si Owen | Email: si@obobo.demon.co.uk | | Wordcraft International Ltd, UK | Fax: +44-1332-295525 | +------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 21 13:08:05 1996 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 13:04:41 GMT Message-Id: <199601211304.NAA06034@syntech.netwales.co.uk> X-Sender: e0021@mail.netwales.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Matt Round Subject: Hi, PDASM, etc. etc. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1311 Lines: 29 Hi there... I thought I'd better subscribe to the mailing list and see what it chucks at me, despite being on of those traitors ("boo, hiss!") who now spend most of their time working on a PC. The discussion about PDASM and source code standards seems to be leading to one thing - there is no standard! Take your pick from any one of the major systems, or put together your own; whatever you do, some people will moan that you've got it all wrong. Oh well, I won't witter on about anything else, otherwise I'll probably get a complaint from someone that it's cost them a fortune to download a pointless message using their 1 baud modem. Just one last thing (erk I'm turning into Columbo) - has anyone tried out XCoupe, is it in a form which makes it feasible to port to DOS, and is anyone doing so? With a highly-compatible emulator many of us 'traitors' would be able to produce far more SAM stuff. (If it's all been fully discussed, just email me and tell me to shut up!) Matt. ,-.--- ,--. ----------------------------.-------------------. \ \ ||\/|| http://yet/to/be/arranged `------------------.\ \--' `--' malevolent@netwales.co.uk +44-1248-371928 \\ \ Malevolent 17 Craig-y-don Rd,Bangor,Gwynedd,LL57 2BG,UK \\ `= Design ================================================='' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 21 19:23:46 1996 Message-Id: <23815.9601211922@rs6-233.cls-4.bcc.ac.uk> Subject: CR/LF in text files (was Re: PDASM) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 19:22:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Mr Keith Turner In-Reply-To: from "Si Owen" at Jan 18, 96 06:32:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2174 Lines: 56 > On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Dave Hooper wrote: > > > Lines can terminate with CR, CR/LF or LF (thanks Simon!) Si Owen asked: > Do any systems end lines in only ? I thought most non-UNIX used > and UNIX (and a couple of others) use just . Some programs skip the > without checking if there is one there, which will eat the start of lines. Apple Macintoshes use CR for end-of-line. There are three common ASCII text file formats to my knowledge: 1) Unix: printable ASCII, plus: BS: CHR$(8) move back one column (used in overstrike sequences e.g. T+_, e+`) TAB: CHR$(9) a TAB (advance to column divisible by 8) LF: CHR$(10) line feed, implies CR (advance to beginning of next line), FF: CHR$(12) a form feed (advance to end of page, especially for printers) CR: CHR$(13) move back to column one (can be used to overstrike whole line) all arranged never to exceed column 80, So for Unix, LF is the conventional end-of-line. 2) MSDOS: DOS Character Set, incorporating printable ASCII, plus: TAB: CHR$(9) a TAB (advance to column divisible by 8) LF: CHR$(10) move down one row (but not necessarily to beginning of line) FF: CHR$(12) a form feed (advance to end of page, especially for printers) CR: CHR$(13) move back to column one And for MSDOS, CRLF is the conventional end-of-line. 3) Mac: Apple Character Set, incorporating printable ASCII, and: TAB: CHR$(9) a TAB (advance to Text window TAB stop) CR: CHR$(13) carriage return implies LF (advance to beginning of next line) But for Macs, CR is the conventional end-of-line. >From this I would conclude that to read a text file, one should interpret any of LF, CR, CRLF, LFCR or FF as an end-of-line, and TAB as whitespace implying a tabular layout. All other non-printable or non-ASCII characters should be stripped or replaced with, say, "_", respectively. To write a reasonably portable text file, use only printable ASCII, plus TABS, and end lines with CRLF. And for all of this confusion, blame the people who invented ASCII, because it is all geared up for teletype devices, but a bloody awful abstract text description language. :) (You caould always use SGML or HTML!) / To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:33:59 +0000 Subject: Drive bays... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: <1538186A86@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 370 Lines: 11 Whilst a friend was admiring the general shape of the SAM yesterday, he asked whether the drive bays were used for anything other than the disk drives. I replied that I thought not, but it would be possible, surely, to use the connectors to attach some different hardware. I don't know what, but then again, I don't know much anyway. Has anyone tried this? dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 23 16:07:39 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: Drive bays... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:50:29 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <1538186A86@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 23, 96 01:33:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 528 Lines: 17 > > I replied that I thought not, but it would be possible, surely, to > use the connectors to attach some different hardware. I don't know > what, but then again, I don't know much anyway. > > Has anyone tried this? > dave. Well, West Coast use the datalines to connect a printer port, I think (on the elite). I'd been thinking about how it would be a neat way to add a few devices - if you don't use a second drive that is. Just got to hope that DOS doesn't get confused and think you've attached another drive. -AG From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 23 16:54:19 1996 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:38:57 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9601231638.AA06842@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Drive bays... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 940 Lines: 27 > > > > > I replied that I thought not, but it would be possible, surely, to > > use the connectors to attach some different hardware. I don't know > > what, but then again, I don't know much anyway. > > > > Has anyone tried this? > > dave. > > > Well, West Coast use the datalines to connect a printer port, I think > (on the elite). I'd been thinking about how it would be a neat way to > add a few devices - if you don't use a second drive that is. Just got > to hope that DOS doesn't get confused and think you've attached another > drive. Some rewiring must be done as tese two connectors only have (at least so the tech manual says) 0 volts (x10!), 5 volts (x6!), WR(L), address lines a0-a2(!), data-lines (d0-d7), 8 MHz, RST and the disc selector. If you can do anything with that, be my guest. :) If you are worried about the DOS detecting anything avoid touching the disc selector. :) Minimum design...argh... -Frode From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 23 21:49:00 1996 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:25:11 +0100 (GMT) From: David Gommeren Subject: Re: Drive bays... To: Sam List In-Reply-To: <9601231638.AA06842@asmal.edh-net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 0.99] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1339 Lines: 38 On Tue 23 Jan, Frode Tenneboe wrote: > > > > > > > > I replied that I thought not, but it would be possible, surely, to > > > use the connectors to attach some different hardware. I don't know > > > what, but then again, I don't know much anyway. > > > > > > Has anyone tried this? > > > dave. > > > > > > Well, West Coast use the datalines to connect a printer port, I think > > (on the elite). I'd been thinking about how it would be a neat way to > > add a few devices - if you don't use a second drive that is. Just got > > to hope that DOS doesn't get confused and think you've attached another > > drive. > > Some rewiring must be done as tese two connectors only have (at least > so the tech manual says) 0 volts (x10!), 5 volts (x6!), WR(L), address > lines a0-a2(!), data-lines (d0-d7), 8 MHz, RST and the disc selector. > If you can do anything with that, be my guest. :) > > If you are worried about the DOS detecting anything avoid touching > the disc selector. :) > > Minimum design...argh... > > -Frode > Which is just enough for, say, a 8250 from Intel, gives you 24 IO ports! (I already thought about that for a long time, and the only problem I had was that the cables would not dangle from the back, but from the front of the machine. Oh yes, I also got 2 drives :) David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 24 18:18:19 1996 From: Diggory Gray Organization: The University of Birmingham To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:36:58 GMT Subject: Monitors (TTL) Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 617 Lines: 18 I have wired my SAM up to a TTL monitor. The TTL monitor only display 8 colours, so I tried to see if I could get any more without rebuiling the monitor. I found pin 20 on the SCART, which said 'Bright TTL' - great. I connected this to one of the colour outputs. This pin seems to give a 'spattered' effect to colours, thus achiveing more colours. The trouble is I can only connect it to Blue, Red or Green, I tried using diodes, but I didn't work very well. Would a plain logic chip work? ____ _ __ _ _ __ _ ____ ____ ____ ____ _ _ ____ _ ____ ____ ____ _ ____ ___ ___ ___ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 25 09:02:10 1996 From: NEIL A MAYNARD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:58:48 GMT Subject: Games Master X-Confirm-Reading-To: "NEIL A MAYNARD" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <2E59BC472F@wmcu1.uwcm.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 805 Lines: 26 Firstly, I Have v1.51 of Games Master, is this the most up to date and can I get an updated copy from somewhere (if needed)?? Secondly, Does anyone have any hints/tips (perhaps an independant manual) for writing games?? Cheers Neil Maynard. ************************************* * Neil Maynard * * IT Officer * * Medical Biochemistry Dept * * University Hospital of Wales * * Cardiff * * CF4 4XW * * * * Tel: (01222) 743561 * * Fax: (01222) 766276 * * E-Mail: Maynard@cf.ac.uk * ************************************* From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 25 10:51:27 1996 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:51:46 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9601251051.AA09199@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no, Maynard@cf.ac.uk Subject: Re: RCPT: Games Master X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 74 Lines: 5 > Confirmation of reading: your message - Please turn this off! -Frode From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Jan 25 16:16:37 1996 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:11:13 GMT Message-Id: <199601251611.QAA08253@syntech.netwales.co.uk> X-Sender: e0021@mail.netwales.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Matt Round Subject: Re: Games Master Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2256 Lines: 49 >Firstly, > I Have v1.51 of Games Master, is this the most up to date and can I >get an updated copy from somewhere (if needed)?? I bought GM quite a long time after it was released, so I assumed I had the latest version. Recently I found out someone had v1.56, and so now I am using that. I don't know if it solves any of the major problems (probably not), but the palette editor in it actually works (wouldn't do a thing in the version I'd used previously) and there are a couple of other tweaks. I don't know if you can upgrades in any legitimate way nowadays. If you send me an SAE containing a disk with just the main GM editor's BASIC on it (which is pretty good proof you've got GM, but doesn't allow me to pirate it if I haven't got GM) (yes I know, very fussy, and everyone who's played one of my games knows I've got GM, but I'm going by the book here) then I'll send you version 1.56. There may be a later version, I don't know... > >Secondly, > Does anyone have any hints/tips (perhaps an independant manual) for >writing games?? > Umm... well I did consider writing a GM guide, but there didn't seem to be much demand for it so I didn't bother finishing it. Come to think of it, the file is still on the hard disk somewhere, so if you want what little is there then email me and I'll send it. Also, if you've any specific queries or problems then feel free to ask; I probably won't be able to help much, but I'll give it a go, and via email it's no hassle for me. Games Master is one of those awkward programs full of bugs and quirks that take ages to find. There are some fundamental problems in its design (sorry Andy Wright, but it's a complete mess!), but once you find the really nasty problems and get round them you can do some good stuff. If anyone produces really good sprite and sound libraries for SAM C then I'd recommend moving over to that as any skills you develop will be more portable. Matt. ,-.--- ,--. ----------------------------.-------------------. \ \ ||\/|| http://yet/to/be/arranged `------------------.\ \--' `--' malevolent@netwales.co.uk +44-1248-371928 \\ \ Malevolent 17 Craig-y-don Rd,Bangor,Gwynedd,LL57 2BG,UK \\ `= Design ================================================='' From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 26 08:49:04 1996 From: NEIL A MAYNARD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 08:47:14 GMT Subject: Re: Games Master Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <462ACB4D93@wmcu1.uwcm.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2972 Lines: 73 > Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:11:13 GMT > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > From: Matt Round > Subject: Re: Games Master > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > > >Firstly, > > I Have v1.51 of Games Master, is this the most up to date and can I > >get an updated copy from somewhere (if needed)?? > > I bought GM quite a long time after it was released, so I assumed I had the > latest version. Recently I found out someone had v1.56, and so now I am > using that. I don't know if it solves any of the major problems (probably > not), but the palette editor in it actually works (wouldn't do a thing in > the version I'd used previously) and there are a couple of other tweaks. > > I don't know if you can upgrades in any legitimate way nowadays. If you send > me an SAE containing a disk with just the main GM editor's BASIC on it > (which is pretty good proof you've got GM, but doesn't allow me to pirate it > if I haven't got GM) (yes I know, very fussy, and everyone who's played one > of my games knows I've got GM, but I'm going by the book here) then I'll > send you version 1.56. > > There may be a later version, I don't know... > > > > >Secondly, > > Does anyone have any hints/tips (perhaps an independant manual) for > >writing games?? > > > > Umm... well I did consider writing a GM guide, but there didn't seem to be > much demand for it so I didn't bother finishing it. Come to think of it, the > file is still on the hard disk somewhere, so if you want what little is > there then email me and I'll send it. Also, if you've any specific queries > or problems then feel free to ask; I probably won't be able to help much, > but I'll give it a go, and via email it's no hassle for me. > > Games Master is one of those awkward programs full of bugs and quirks that > take ages to find. There are some fundamental problems in its design (sorry > Andy Wright, but it's a complete mess!), but once you find the really nasty > problems and get round them you can do some good stuff. If anyone produces > really good sprite and sound libraries for SAM C then I'd recommend moving > over to that as any skills you develop will be more portable. > > > Matt. > Thanks for the offer, i will send the disk to you asap. Also please could you send me any info/tips that you do have on GM. They would be most helpfull. Cheers Neil Maynard. ************************************* * Neil Maynard * * IT Officer * * Medical Biochemistry Dept * * University Hospital of Wales * * Cardiff * * CF4 4XW * * * * Tel: (01222) 743561 * * Fax: (01222) 766276 * * E-Mail: Maynard@cf.ac.uk * ************************************* From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 26 08:58:34 1996 From: NEIL A MAYNARD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 08:56:07 GMT Subject: Re: PD Software Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <4650C86FE7@wmcu1.uwcm.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 639 Lines: 19 Does anyone have any good PD Games software that i can have?? Cheers Neil Maynard. ************************************* * Neil Maynard * * IT Officer * * Medical Biochemistry Dept * * University Hospital of Wales * * Cardiff * * CF4 4XW * * * * Tel: (01222) 743561 * * Fax: (01222) 766276 * * E-Mail: Maynard@cf.ac.uk * ************************************* From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 26 13:27:11 1996 From: NEIL A MAYNARD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:24:10 GMT Subject: Re: Games Master Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <4AC8515C80@wmcu1.uwcm.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 789 Lines: 24 > If anyone produces > really good sprite and sound libraries for SAM C then I'd recommend moving > over to that as any skills you develop will be more portable. > > > Matt. > Is Sam C a commercial product or PD ??? Neil Maynard. ************************************* * Neil Maynard * * IT Officer * * Medical Biochemistry Dept * * University Hospital of Wales * * Cardiff * * CF4 4XW * * * * Tel: (01222) 743561 * * Fax: (01222) 766276 * * E-Mail: Maynard@cf.ac.uk * ************************************* From imc Fri Jan 26 14:28:28 1996 Subject: Re: Games Master To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 14:28:28 MET In-Reply-To: <4AC8515C80@wmcu1.uwcm.ac.uk>; from "NEIL A MAYNARD" at Jan 26, 96 1:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 157 Lines: 6 On Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:24:10 GMT, NEIL A MAYNARD said: > Is Sam C a commercial product or PD ??? Expensive and not much cop at the moment, I'm afraid. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jan 26 14:46:44 1996 Date: 26 Jan 96 09:32:33 EST From: Andrew Collier <100751.545@compuserve.com> To: Sam users Subject: BASIC functions Message-Id: <960126143232_100751.545_GHV28-1@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 542 Lines: 12 What does anybody know about adding numeric functions to basic from machine code; eg PRINT (COMPRESS LENGTH) will give a number if some token is set to 'COMPRESS' and the various vectors are rerouted. I assume you have to alter EVALV, but this is far less well documented than, say, MTOKV. I've managed to have COMPRESS and COMP. accepted as commands (with various parameter structures) but no luck so far on getting anything to return a value. What now? Is it possible to have the same token acting as both a command and a function? asc From imc Fri Jan 26 18:34:32 1996 Subject: Re: BASIC functions To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 18:34:32 MET In-Reply-To: <960126143232_100751.545_GHV28-1@CompuServe.COM>; from "Andrew Collier" at Jan 26, 96 9:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1991 Lines: 37 On 26 Jan 96 09:32:33 EST, Andrew Collier said: > What does anybody know about adding numeric functions to basic from machine > code; eg PRINT (COMPRESS LENGTH) will give a number if some token is set to > 'COMPRESS' and the various vectors are rerouted. I assume you have to alter > EVALV, but this is far less well documented than, say, MTOKV. EVALUV looks hard. It is called just after the scanner finds a 255-code (so tokens that don't start with 255 will always cause an error, as will things like square brackets) with A being 1AH less than the code after the 255. What you have to do is one of the following, after verifying that A holds the correct code for your function [if it isn't yours then leave A and E alone but you can alter the flags, D and HL]. 1. Skip past the token, collect any arguments (if necesary) to the function immediately (they must therefore be in parentheses or other delimiters), place the answer on the FPC stack and jump to NUMCONT, dropping the EVALUV return address. In a version 3 ROM this is at 15E9 but finding it in a ROM-independent manner might be tricky. It is the first address in the ROM that starts with the bytes 213B5CCBF6DF. 2. Place a calculator instruction byte (possibly a made-up one) in E and a number between 39H and 4EH in A and return immediately. The Sam will then scan for a single parameter to your function (which need not be in parentheses). Trap the calculator vector and when you notice your calculator instruction being called (via the USEB instruction) perform your function. There may be some mileage in waiting for a syntax error and then seeing whether your function caused it, but I haven't checked this out. > Is it possible to have the same token acting as both a command and a > function? It is possible to have a function token that acts as a command. However, not every token can be a function (see above) unless you use the syntax error method. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 27 01:29:17 1996 From: Mr Andrew M Gale Message-Id: <9601262013.AA04340@central.surrey.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Games Master\\ To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 20:13:32 GMT In-Reply-To: <4AC8515C80@wmcu1.uwcm.ac.uk>; from "NEIL A MAYNARD" at Jan 26, 96 1:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 429 Lines: 12 Going back to the subject of EMC for a minute, I just remembered that when I prise open my C64 I have to remove a piece of tin-foil coated cardboard - this surrounds the PCB and is presumably so the C64 passes FCC regulations on rfi. Anyway, the point is that, like the sam, the keyboard is on the outside and so can still emit rubbish, but it seems that this isn't a major player in producing rfi. Just a thought...\ -Andrew From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 27 03:26:35 1996 From: COLIN ANDERTON Organization: HSH, University of Nottingham To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:26:41 GMT0BST Subject: Re: Games Master Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <1AA7F2779B@hhn1.hughall.nottingham.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 226 Lines: 8 > > I Have v1.51 of Games Master, is this the most up to date and can I > >get an updated copy from somewhere (if needed)?? Haven't got a clue which version I've got. In fact, I can't program properly, so who cares?? CA From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 27 08:15:38 1996 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 14:37:54 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9601261337.AA10973@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Games Master X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 218 Lines: 9 > On Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:24:10 GMT, NEIL A MAYNARD said: > > Is Sam C a commercial product or PD ??? > > Expensive and not much cop at the moment, I'm afraid. Huh? I've just forked out 30 (?) quid for it! -Frode From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sat Jan 27 15:07:07 1996 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 17:20:58 +0000 (GMT) From: Si Owen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Games Master In-Reply-To: <4AC8515C80@wmcu1.uwcm.ac.uk> Message-Id: Organisation: Wordcraft International Ltd. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 586 Lines: 20 On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, NEIL A MAYNARD wrote: > Is Sam C a commercial product or PD ??? Commercial - it's not got floating point support as far as I remember. Anyone know what else it lacks? > Neil Maynard. Brian'll be on to you soon! Si +------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | Si Owen | Email: si@obobo.demon.co.uk | | Wordcraft International Ltd, UK | Fax: +44-1332-295525 | +------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Jan 28 12:36:47 1996 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:45:08 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <13185@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: David Ledbury X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 251 Lines: 12 Has anyone got a phone number for him since the 'incident'. He left me a message on the answerphone and gabbled off 2 numbers that were totally unintellihable! Thanks... And I could not understand them either... :-) Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 29 13:13:17 1996 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:12:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Daniel James Doore X-Sender: iq4d4385@jaffle-fddi To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: PD Software In-Reply-To: <4650C86FE7@wmcu1.uwcm.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 654 Lines: 21 > Does anyone have any good PD Games software that i can have?? If you have access to FTP, open up ftp.nvg.unit.no and have a look at /pub/sam-coupe. Watch the huge sig, the dial-up pods don't like it... ;) Dan. P.S. Welcome to sam-users boys (Neil & Matt) just don't mention anything to do with Cookie, Statues or Ice :)) +========================================================================+ | Dan Doore - Ex-Head Pod And Dogsbody | D.J.Doore-iq4d4385@lmu.ac.uk | | WARNING!! Only read every so often, so you might have to wait a bit. | +========================================================================+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 29 14:24:46 1996 From: NEIL A MAYNARD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:10:22 GMT Subject: Re: PD Software Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <9392AA1D72@wmcu1.uwcm.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 390 Lines: 10 I have access to ftp.nvg.unit.no already and was actually wondering if there is any other PD stuff around. Neil Maynard. +------------------------------------------+ | Neil Maynard | | Tel:(01222) 743561 Fax:(01222) 766276 | | E-Mail: Maynard@cf.ac.uk | +------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 29 14:27:12 1996 From: NEIL A MAYNARD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:57:54 GMT Subject: SAM Hard Disk Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <935DEC3910@wmcu1.uwcm.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 370 Lines: 9 Is there a Hard disk interface available for the sam yet or is there one in development?? Neil Maynard +------------------------------------------+ | Neil Maynard | | Tel:(01222) 743561 Fax:(01222) 766276 | | E-Mail: Maynard@cf.ac.uk | +------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 29 14:43:23 1996 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:38:48 GMT Message-Id: <199601291438.OAA28917@syntech.netwales.co.uk> X-Sender: e0021@mail.netwales.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Matt Round Subject: Re: PD Software Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 688 Lines: 23 > > >Watch the huge sig, the dial-up pods don't like it... ;) > >Dan. I'm a 'dial-up pod' (is that kindof like a 'spod'?!?) and don't really mind... but then again, I spent a bloody fortune on a V34 modem! My phone bill is going to be nightmareishly huge anyway, so get your BT shares now... > >P.S. Welcome to sam-users boys (Neil & Matt) just don't mention anything >to do with Cookie, Statues or Ice :)) > Well, I was thinking, what with Retros being ever-so-slightly overdue and rapidly heading for Statues Of Ice notoriety, maybe they could be bundled together... "The Better-Late-Than-Never Pack"..? ;) Matt. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Jan 29 15:12:26 1996 Subject: CGA,EGA...and Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:53:40 +0000 (MET) From: Sebastian Palucha X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23~] Content-Type: text Message-Id: <9601291553.aa19602@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 137 Lines: 6 How to connect CGA/EGA colour monitor to Sam (CSYNCH!) * * Tom M.Box * * e: palucha@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl * * * From imc Mon Jan 29 15:29:02 1996 Subject: Re: Games Master To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 15:29:02 MET In-Reply-To: <9601261337.AA10973@asmal.edh-net>; from "Frode Tenneboe" at Jan 26, 96 2:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 863 Lines: 26 On Fri, 26 Jan 1996 14:37:54 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: > > Expensive and not much cop at the moment, I'm afraid. > Huh? I've just forked out 30 (?) quid for it! Well that proves the "expensive" part of it then, doesn't it... I seem to remember answering the other part of it earlier. Yes, here it is... #From imc Fri Jan 5 17:00:30 1996 #To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no # #On Fri, 22 Dec 1995 09:26:12 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: #> And how about the C-compiler? # #I took some C programs home because my brother has Sam C and was told that #there was no way any of them would compile because: # # - the angle brackets in "#include" are not supported # - it doesn't allow single-letter global variable names # - it requires lots of spaces where standard C does not. # #And this was after I had already removed references to long and float. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 30 01:28:12 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: BOAI To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:36:43 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9601291553.aa19602@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl> from "Sebastian Palucha" at Jan 29, 96 03:53:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 107 Lines: 7 Simon, Any news on the progress of BOAI? Do you realise how much suspense you have us all in?!! -Andrew From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 30 01:28:39 1996 Message-Id: X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:09:37 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Games Master Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 813 Lines: 22 >Status: RO >> On Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:24:10 GMT, NEIL A MAYNARD said: >> > Is Sam C a commercial product or PD ??? >> >> Expensive and not much cop at the moment, I'm afraid. > >Huh? I've just forked out 30 (?) quid for it! Don't worry... I bought it at a show for curiosity value. I'm sure you could use it as a door-stop if you really tried. Or perhaps a beer-mat. (I'm being way too scathing, but I wasn't that impressed. Pretty ambitious project though). Simon -!- Mains Hum: A sine of the times??? +- Email:Simon.Cooke@umist.ac.uk ---- Fidonet: 2:250/124.2 (Simon Cooke) -+ | Snail:1 Dovey Close, Astley, Tyldesley, Manchester, M29 7NP, UK | | Tel: (01942) 886084 Fax: (01942) 886084 (ring voice first to confirm!)| +- WWW: http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc ----------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 30 01:29:29 1996 Message-Id: X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:09:36 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Games Master Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 865 Lines: 20 >On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, NEIL A MAYNARD wrote: >> Is Sam C a commercial product or PD ??? > >Commercial - it's not got floating point support as far as I remember. >Anyone know what else it lacks? File handling (fopen, etc type stuff... you can open a file with MASTERDOS and redirect printf etc to the stream if you really want to though), the sizeof construct, long variables, a good editor program (it can't keep up with my typing at all), and I think that's about it. Oh, and it's also missing an update disk ;) Simon -!- Mains Hum: A sine of the times??? +- Email:Simon.Cooke@umist.ac.uk ---- Fidonet: 2:250/124.2 (Simon Cooke) -+ | Snail:1 Dovey Close, Astley, Tyldesley, Manchester, M29 7NP, UK | | Tel: (01942) 886084 Fax: (01942) 886084 (ring voice first to confirm!)| +- WWW: http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc ----------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 30 01:32:04 1996 Message-Id: X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:09:41 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: BASIC functions Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1227 Lines: 23 >What does anybody know about adding numeric functions to basic from machine >code; eg PRINT (COMPRESS LENGTH) will give a number if some token is set to >'COMPRESS' and the various vectors are rerouted. I assume you have to alter >EVALV, but this is far less well documented than, say, MTOKV. The thing that I'd ask is if you could let me know which tokens you're planning to use so that I can reserve them in a token list. For example, Steve Taylor implemented the DRIVER token in a byte I'd already reserved with Andy Wright... which kind of scuppered what I was going to do, which was to extend the existing token system by another 128 or so tokens (by having a key byte and index byte, much like the existing function system). 'course it's totally optional, but I'm also trying to standardise port allocation by feeding them out to people as and when the ask for them. Simon -!- Mains Hum: A sine of the times??? +- Email:Simon.Cooke@umist.ac.uk ---- Fidonet: 2:250/124.2 (Simon Cooke) -+ | Snail:1 Dovey Close, Astley, Tyldesley, Manchester, M29 7NP, UK | | Tel: (01942) 886084 Fax: (01942) 886084 (ring voice first to confirm!)| +- WWW: http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc ----------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 30 01:33:03 1996 Message-Id: X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:09:39 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Games Master\\ Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1237 Lines: 26 >Going back to the subject of EMC for a minute, I just >remembered that when I prise open my C64 I have to remove >a piece of tin-foil coated cardboard - this surrounds the >PCB and is presumably so the C64 passes FCC regulations >on rfi. Anyway, the point is that, like the sam, the keyboard >is on the outside and so can still emit rubbish, but it >seems that this isn't a major player in producing rfi. Just >a thought...\ The major problems lie with the components connected up to the clocks, and the clock crystal and lines themselves. Also, the SAM's power supply cable picks up so much RFI it's unbelievable, so it probably emits it too. I've stuck a load of ferrite chokes on the outside of my SAM, but it doesn't make any noticeable difference, alas. Ummm... basically, sticking it in a PC case would do it, but it'd be a really nasty job to do. I wouldn't like to try it :( Simon -!- Mains Hum: A sine of the times??? +- Email:Simon.Cooke@umist.ac.uk ---- Fidonet: 2:250/124.2 (Simon Cooke) -+ | Snail:1 Dovey Close, Astley, Tyldesley, Manchester, M29 7NP, UK | | Tel: (01942) 886084 Fax: (01942) 886084 (ring voice first to confirm!)| +- WWW: http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc ----------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 30 01:33:48 1996 Message-Id: X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:09:59 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Well... that's one dream gone :( Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1338 Lines: 32 >Hi all.. > >Well, just added the back (mirror) screen to Termite... >Oh well, my dreams of super-fast system access are gone :( > >But at least it's still quite fast... and now you've got a scroll-back >buffer in there as well... > >I may still be able to optimise it; but that'll happen -when- I've >finished playing with it and have added nearly all the main functions to it. I've been looking at it. The fast print routine is going to play havoc with everything if you have a 6x7 font (namely because it can, at times, print on ODD screen lines). I wish I could see a solution to this, but it's difficult. Either I can default to the slow-but-crap print routine for those cases (or print them linearly even), or I can drop it all together... which I'm loathe to do :( Optimising-wise, I've started rewriting the CR, LF, TAB, BS, and character-advance routines... I think I can get back most of the speed I lost when I implemented the scroll-back buffer (phew!) Thass all folks! Simon -!- Mains Hum: A sine of the times??? +- Email:Simon.Cooke@umist.ac.uk ---- Fidonet: 2:250/124.2 (Simon Cooke) -+ | Snail:1 Dovey Close, Astley, Tyldesley, Manchester, M29 7NP, UK | | Tel: (01942) 886084 Fax: (01942) 886084 (ring voice first to confirm!)| +- WWW: http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc ----------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 30 01:37:10 1996 Message-Id: X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:09:56 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) Subject: Re: Monitors (TTL) Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1610 Lines: 34 >Status: RO > >I have wired my SAM up to a TTL monitor. >The TTL monitor only display 8 colours, so I tried to see if I could >get any more without rebuiling the monitor. >I found pin 20 on the SCART, which said 'Bright TTL' - great. >I connected this to one of the colour outputs. >This pin seems to give a 'spattered' effect to colours, thus >achiveing more colours. >The trouble is I can only connect it to Blue, Red or Green, I tried >using diodes, but I didn't work very well. >Would a plain logic chip work? Well, the thing is that most TTL monitors (I say that tentatively, understand) have an input for the bright TTL line. If you've got a monitor which supports it you should be able to connect it directly in (I think the bright line was mainly used for Spectrums and terminals which could support intense or bold text as well as colours ;) ). If the monitor doesn't support it, then there /are/ ways to open it up, modify the board so that you can feed in the SAM's linear RGB lines direct to the colour guns (through some current limiting resistors), but I don't know the mod. And it's a monitor, so there will be lots of high voltages running around in there. If you attempt this at all, I'm not responsible for any injury or damage caused. Simon -!- Mains Hum: A sine of the times??? +- Email:Simon.Cooke@umist.ac.uk ---- Fidonet: 2:250/124.2 (Simon Cooke) -+ | Snail:1 Dovey Close, Astley, Tyldesley, Manchester, M29 7NP, UK | | Tel: (01942) 886084 Fax: (01942) 886084 (ring voice first to confirm!)| +- WWW: http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc ----------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jan 30 12:11:26 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:14:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Well... that's one dream gone :( Priority: urgent X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1314 Lines: 39 > I've been looking at it. The fast print routine is going to play havoc with > everything if you have a 6x7 font (namely because it can, at times, print on > ODD screen lines). I wish I could see a solution to this, but it's > difficult. Either I can default to the slow-but-crap print routine for those > cases (or print them linearly even), or I can drop it all together... which > I'm loathe to do :( Surely there's no problem; the only problem occurs when you calculate the actual screen address to print at... OR, probably, have two versions of the code - I cannot remember it exactly, but I remember you added (probably) 128 to E or sommat to switch from the even to odd lines... could you not do something very similar, say, add 128 to E, and increment D... The actual code apart from this stays the same. I'm sure there's a faster way, but this is the best I've come up with for decoding a screen address from x,y (alas, 8x8-character screen, but still, eh?) ; On entry, DE = Y,X SL D SL D SET 7,D ; OR RES 7,D (UNNECCESSARY?) FOR SECTION A,B SL E ;DE now holds memory address. For odd lines: ;On entry DE=Y,X SL D SL D SET 7,D SL E SET 7,E ;DE now holds screen address. Then call either the odd or even version of butterfly and you're away, yes? daveee. From imc Tue Jan 30 12:54:05 1996 Subject: Re: BASIC functions To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 12:54:05 MET In-Reply-To: ; from "Simon Cooke" at Jan 29, 96 2:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 1470 Lines: 28 On Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:09:41 +0000, Simon Cooke said: > The thing that I'd ask is if you could let me know which tokens you're > planning to use so that I can reserve them in a token list. For example, > Steve Taylor implemented the DRIVER token in a byte I'd already reserved I'd used it too. :-) > with Andy Wright... which kind of scuppered what I was going to do, which > was to extend the existing token system by another 128 or so tokens (by > having a key byte and index byte, much like the existing function system). If you intended to do this with the normal Sam ROM it could get quite messy. Actually, I'm planning a humungous number of new tokens all starting with 255, and my only solution is to try and make sure the token never appears in the edit line (by using the EDITV to expand all tokens in the edit line each time it is edited). You can still get the thing into a big mess though by defining a function key to insert the tokens. I have tested it and it more or less works apart from that problem. It does however mean that I would like to reserve all tokens starting with FF apart from those used by BASIC and MasterBASIC (and possibly one non-FF one as well). :-) > 'course it's totally optional, but I'm also trying to standardise port > allocation by feeding them out to people as and when the ask for them. Unfortunately there are hardly any non-FF tokens left, especially after MasterBASIC and PLAY/DRIVER are taken into account. imc From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 31 19:02:07 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:19:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Daniel James Doore X-Sender: iq4d4385@jaffle-fddi To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: PD Software In-Reply-To: <199601291438.OAA28917@syntech.netwales.co.uk> Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Status: RO Content-Length: 847 Lines: 23 > >Watch the huge sig, the dial-up pods don't like it... ;) > > > >Dan. > > I'm a 'dial-up pod' (is that kindof like a 'spod'?!?) and don't really > mind... but then again, I spent a bloody fortune on a V34 modem! My phone > bill is going to be nightmareishly huge anyway, so get your BT shares now... Pod is not like spod, pod is person, a bit like bod. A few moons ago a bloke called Ronan had the largest sig ever (at least 15 lines) and it got to the point where his posts were shorter than his sig. Then we set Brain on him :)) Dan. +========================================================================+ | Dan Doore - Ex-Head Pod And Dogsbody | D.J.Doore-iq4d4385@lmu.ac.uk | | WARNING!! Only read every so often, so you might have to wait a bit. | +========================================================================+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 1 01:44:53 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:27:29 +0000 Subject: Re: PD Software Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 230 Lines: 7 > Well, I was thinking, what with Retros being ever-so-slightly overdue and > rapidly heading for Statues Of Ice notoriety, maybe they could be bundled > together... "The Better-Late-Than-Never Pack"..? ;) What's Retros? dave. From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 1 01:45:12 1996 Message-Id: <199601301038.LAA30220@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: BOAI To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:38:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Andrew M Gale" at Jan 29, 96 04:36:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Status: RO Content-Length: 380 Lines: 17 > Simon, > > Any news on the progress of BOAI? Do you realise how much > suspense you have us all in?!! Yes :) THat's what I'm not telling you :) Oh... okayyy.... first print run of 100 issues (with 40 pages, and a card cover! woooh!) goes to print today... we'll probably get it back within a week or so, depending on how busy they are! Ciao for now Cookie > -Andrew > From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 1 01:49:25 1996 Message-Id: <199601301351.OAA00003@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: BASIC functions To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:50:50 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9601301154.AA01810@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Jan 30, 96 12:54:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Status: RO Content-Length: 503 Lines: 13 > > 'course it's totally optional, but I'm also trying to standardise port > > allocation by feeding them out to people as and when the ask for them. > > Unfortunately there are hardly any non-FF tokens left, especially after > MasterBASIC and PLAY/DRIVER are taken into account. Ian... would you like a copy of Andy Wright's code from MasterDOS which allows him to insert FF based tokens? He rewrites the MTOKV routines while they're in the transient buffer area... quite nasty actually ;) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 1 01:50:22 1996 Message-Id: <12284.199601291437@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> From: William Easson <9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: PD Software To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:37:24 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Daniel James Doore" at Jan 29, 96 01:12:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Status: RO Content-Length: 556 Lines: 22 > > P.S. Welcome to sam-users boys (Neil & Matt) just don't mention anything > to do with Cookie, Statues or Ice :)) > When IS Statues of Ice coming out? ;-> I'm going to get into trouble, now. Like finding the whole of UMIST's UNIX core sent to me by e-mail... Will -- E-Mail: 9264201e@udcf.gla.ac.uk WWW: http://www.gla.ac.uk/Clubs/WebSoc/~9264201e/ and: http://www.gla.ac.uk/Clubs/GUVZS/ and: http://www.src.gla.ac.uk/users/club02/GUVZS/ "A sense of humour is not being able to laugh at a few jokes. It is the ability to laugh at yourself." From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 1 01:50:22 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:10:23 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Taylor X-Sender: sct1000@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: BASIC functions In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Status: RO Content-Length: 832 Lines: 22 On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Simon Cooke wrote: > The thing that I'd ask is if you could let me know which tokens you're > planning to use so that I can reserve them in a token list. For example, > Steve Taylor implemented the DRIVER token in a byte I'd already reserved Sorry, but I don't remember you complaining at the time ;) Besides, there's nothing to stop you patching the Driver bootstrap code to implement a different token system. (Except that existing Basic programs that use 208 will be buggered) Steve. +---------------------------------------------------------------+ Steve Taylor sct1000@cam.ac.uk Pembroke College http://www.pem.cam.ac.uk:81/sct1000/ Cambridge CB2 1RF 01223-321605 "Woe is like a Cowdenbeath" - Andy Lenard +---------------------------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 1 01:50:56 1996 Message-Id: <199601301357.OAA00068@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Subject: Re: Well... that's one dream gone :( To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:56:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Dave Hooper" at Jan 30, 96 12:14:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] From: Simon Cooke Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Status: RO Content-Length: 1500 Lines: 42 > Surely there's no problem; the only problem occurs when you > calculate the actual screen address to print at... OR, probably, have > two versions of the code - I cannot remember it exactly, but I > remember you added (probably) 128 to E or sommat to switch from the > even to odd lines... could you not do something very similar, say, > add 128 to E, and increment D... > The actual code apart from this stays the same. Ah, but it doesn't... remember, that with 6x8 and 6x7 printing, you're printing on the even lines of the screen first... so it's a matter of doing (to print a half-character): write, INC D, write, INC D, write, INC D, write, SET 7,E, write, DEC D write, DEC D, write, DEC D, write... With a 6x7 routine, starting on an EVEN line, you do: write, INC D, write, INC D, write, INC D, write, DEC D, SET 7,E , write, DEC D, write, DEC D, write on an ODD line you need to do: write, INC D, write, INC D, write, INC D, write, RES 7,E, write, DEC D, write, DEC D, write ... and I can't remember if the font mapping changes for this occurance... > I'm sure there's a faster way, but this is the best I've come up with > for decoding a screen address from x,y (alas, 8x8-character screen, > but still, eh?) > > ; On entry, DE = Y,X > SL D > SL D > SET 7,D ; OR RES 7,D (UNNECCESSARY?) FOR SECTION A,B > SL E Ummm... lessee... seems okay to me... 'except that you don't need odd and even versions of the butterfly routine for 8x8 characters ;) Simon From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 1 01:53:07 1996 From: NEIL A MAYNARD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:11:42 GMT Subject: PD Libraries Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 344 Lines: 8 Are there any PD Libraries still out there for the SAM?? Cheers, Neil Maynard +------------------------------------------+ | Neil Maynard | | Tel:(01222) 743561 Fax:(01222) 766276 | | E-Mail: Maynard@cf.ac.uk | +------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 1 01:55:00 1996 From: NEIL A MAYNARD To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:09:22 GMT Subject: Sam Shows Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 336 Lines: 10 Does anyone know the date of the next show?? Cheers Neil Maynard +------------------------------------------+ | Neil Maynard | | Tel:(01222) 743561 Fax:(01222) 766276 | | E-Mail: Maynard@cf.ac.uk | +------------------------------------------+ From sam-users-owner@nvg.unit.no Thu Feb 1 01:56:26 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 20:13:04 MET From: Stefan Drissen Subject: RE: CGA,EGA...and Sam To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Status: RO Content-Length: 743 Lines: 25 >How to connect CGA/EGA colour monitor to Sam (CSYNCH!) >* >* Tom M.Box * >* e: palucha@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl * >* >* Aha! The man of many words strikes again! At least the message was included in the message bit (unlike the request to me saying: modplayer password in the subject line) Stefan Drissen aka Solar Flare of Entropy +------------------------------------------------------------------------ + | E-mail: drissen@pi.net, + * http://www.pi.net/~drissen | | S-mail: Zevende Herven 6, 5232 JZ 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands | | Telephone: +31-73-6414969 . * . | +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +