From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sat Oct 12 14:38:39 1996 Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 09:37:32 -0400 From: Neville Young <106166.1560@compuserve.com> Subject: The R P Brenchley sycophant club To: sam users Message-Id: <199610120937_MC1-AAF-635B@compuserve.com> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 767 Lines: 25 Declaration of interest statement: Bob IS my friend. None the less over the many years I have known him, despite a number of dissagrements, I can not let the statement that he in only interested in SAM for what he can get go unchallenged. He has supported SAM since before it was born, possibly before it was conceived. He has invested many thousands of pounds (UKP) of his own money into keeping it alive. I think he has managed SAM quite well. It could have been better and most weeks he tells in great length what he will do for, and with SAM when his lottery numbers come up. If you want to have a poke at somebody then have a go at that smartarse samsboss whoever he is. Nev. ps. Brian Gaff is right. Lets not back bite lets do something constructive. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sat Oct 12 14:55:04 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 14:54:57 GMT+0 Subject: Re: The WCC affair (sounds scandolous!) Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <223CD263943@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 352 Lines: 13 I wasn't meaning to stir up any kind of trouble - merely to stimulate discussion on one of the grey areas of SAM's existence. We all have opinions and I'm very forward in voicing my own - not a bad quality by any means. The simple fact remains, and nobody has yet to answer it, who the hell are WCC? I end the matter henceforth. Cheers, Johnna From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 09:57:53 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 09:34:30 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <18622@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2058 Lines: 51 In message <199610120740.HAA23152@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss) writes: > On Oct 12, 1996 02:42:00, '"A.D.R." ' wrote: > > > >Stefan Drissen wrote: > >> > >> Second point, by far more important than the first: disc reading is > >> very very very crap. Every disc which has been created on a SAM is NOT > >> read! The only discs that work are the more recent FREDs (plug?) which > >> have been duplicated by some machine and actually load a lot slower on > >> my SAM than regular SAM discs. Why is this? And how can I fix it? > >> > >I experienced the same thing some months ago when I tried to use > >dd (Linux proggie to read a disk as an image) and that samdisk > >utility (don't remember the exact name) under msdos on my PC to > >read SAM disks. It worked only with recent Fred copies. > >On the other hand everything worked perfectly on the PC of a > >friend of mine, no problems whatsoever. > >The reason must be somehow in the different disk drives, I have > >a TEAC and the friend of mine has a Panasonic because the problem > >is exactly the same under Linux and DOS (so it shouldn't be a bug > >or an OS dependent problem). > >_ > >(_ i a o, Arne > > > >%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%( Arne Di Russo )%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > >| Roma, Italy (EU) - ar@RMnet.it - http://digiserve.com/ar/ | > >%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > >\...................> powered by LINUX 2.0 <......................./ > > > BIOS! > > No I'm not swaring. The problem is different BIOSs. Some will not allow the > reading of the 10th sector in 720K mode. I know, I've been trying to write > a utility to load SAM discs on my 386 portable and it just will not do what > I want - but at uni it would run on the 486 machine AOK. > > -- > > Samsboss > The One And Only > Hold on a moment... The DISCIPLE.EXE program in the emulator Z80 seem to be OK. I have had no reports. Does this work on your set up? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 09:57:53 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 09:38:02 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <18623@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 179 Lines: 9 Come on guys, stop criticising each other's style and lets some some meat on the bare bones of SAM? Whqat about this SIMM Ram pack for instance? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 11:48:14 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 10:46:53 GMT Message-Id: <199610131046.KAA10659@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1061 Lines: 38 On Oct 12, 1996 11:48:23, 'Stefan Drissen ' wrote: >Samsboss wrote: > >> BIOS! >> >> No I'm not swaring. The problem is different BIOSs. Some will not allow the >> reading of the 10th sector in 720K mode. I know, I've been trying to write >> a utility to load SAM discs on my 386 portable and it just will not do what >> I want - but at uni it would run on the 486 machine AOK. > >At first I thought that this was a reasonable answer. It does seem a bit odd >that more modern BIOS's will not allow reading the 10th sector (I think >that I can safely assume that the BIOS in my P90 can be considered modern). > >However, since when is FRED produced using only 9 sectors? As I stated (and >Arne confirmed) recent issues of FRED work fine! This, in my view, discards >the BIOS theory. > >-- > >Stefan Drissen >_____ ___ _ ___ ______ ___ ____ -- FRED is duplicated by proffesional type duplication company (or so Mr Fred say). Could this give a hint? Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 12:50:28 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:49:19 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961013074918_209398789@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 659 Lines: 16 One idea which just sprung to mind (Oh it herts on a Sunday morning). DISCiPLE/PLUS D discs are, almost always, written on a 1Mb drive (720k) to the PC. Most SAM drives are however, 2Mb (1.44Mb). Now somewhere, deep in my memory, I seem to recall that there is a slightly different electrical property to the way that most 2Mb drives store the information on the disc surface - not sure if it was a different power level or what, I just remember reading that there was a difference. If the recording is different, then maybe the reading is different as well. Just a thought. Now I can go have my Sunday lunch and forget about SAM for an hour or two. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 12:50:28 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:49:22 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961013074921_209398804@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2069 Lines: 54 In a message dated 12/10/96 11:32:01, you write: >In a message of 11 Oct 96 j.d.teare wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: > >Hi j.d.teare, > > > jdt> So that's hardly any then? Thanks to WCC's excellent SAM promotions.. > >Remember me? :)) > >Isn't Bob an arse! He has only been in the mailing list for a short time and >he's acting as though he owns it. Now, Now, I don't think that comment is at all justified. Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed or something? >He answered your post, but he still didn't say who WCC are. He say's he >hasn't got time to talk about the subject. It is only because he doesn't want >people to know that he is only - and he has only ever been interested in SAM >for what it can do for him. We all have to make a living. I'm just lucky that I can get by on less than most people. But at the end of teh day, at least I have done something over the years for SAM, and will continue for as long as I possible can - even to the extent of starting the FORMAT PC magazine in the hope that I can keep supporting SAM while needing to take less out of it. >Now Brian Gaff (a mate of Bob's) steps in and call's it all "back-biting". >All people want is some truth for a change. > Whatdo you mean ' truth for a change'? I have never lied to any SAM user, so what are you going on about. Put a question, and, if it is in my power so to do, I will answer it. But I am not wasting my time (which could be better used getting a few more articles ready for the next issue of FORMAT) trying to read between the lines and work out what question somebody is actually asking. I'm not telepathic. If you state a question clearly I will try to answer it. But don't be general, a question that is too vague would require to long an answer for these hallowed pages. My answer to the question of Life, the Universe, and Everything - will still be 6*7 even if it takes several books to get it across. >Bye, >|_)ave >(/\)hitmore email - davewhitmore@enterprise.net > > And it is nice to know that I have a few freinds on the list. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 12:51:43 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:49:10 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961013074905_209398758@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 569 Lines: 19 In a message dated 13/10/96 08:58:17, you write: >Come on guys, stop criticising each other's style and lets some >some meat on the bare bones of SAM? > >Whqat about this SIMM Ram pack for instance? > >Brian Hay Mr Cooke, What you know about SIMM memory? There are a lot of old 1Mb 30pin SIMMS floating about at the moment as the poor saps who have been conned into Windows 95 have been forced to upgrade their memory fast... 1) Would you have a problem in designing an external RAM pack that used simms? 2) Could you do it in a reasonable time? 3) How much? Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 12:51:43 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:49:23 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961013074919_209398797@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1295 Lines: 52 In a message dated 11/10/96 22:26:10, you write: >On Oct 11, 1996 16:48:51, 'FormatPub@aol.com' wrote: > > >>In a message dated 11/10/96 14:27:23, you write: >> >>>> Don't you know that black footed SAMs are worth lots more than blue >footed >>>> machines? Well at least a few pence more anyway. >>>> >>>> Another Bruce Gordon *$?!-up. Ordered some feet, did not mention what >>>colour, >>>> company used black. >>> >>>I thought they were planned actually; thus the grey version of the >keyboard. >>> >>>*shrugs* >>>Simon >>> >>> >> >>No the keyboard was always supposed to be blue(y) gray. The IBM colour >ones >>were a mistake in the far east that led to Bruce getting 6,000 keyboards >>free. The IBM ones also seem to fail quicker for some reason. >> >>Bob. >-- > >Dem fee,t dem feet, dem black feet.. > >Hay man, why you always blame dat nice Mr Bruce. He am de nice guy. Hi >Bruce. > >Samsboss >The One And Only > > Do you ever get the impression that some people just have to have something to say - even when it is something that is not worth saying. How about writing an AI program that will vet incoming mail so crap can be filtered out? It would also do away with all the junk mail that keeps arriving in my email box. Oh well, I can dream. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 13:29:26 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:28:12 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <961013074905_209398758@emout01.mail.aol.com> from "FormatPub@aol.com" at Oct 13, 96 07:49:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 365 Lines: 14 > 1) Would you have a problem in designing an external RAM pack that used > simms? It shouldn't be at all tricky (touch wood) - and would actually be a simpler design than the existing SAM Meg. > 2) Could you do it in a reasonable time? > 3) How much? My guess would be less than 10pound for interface hardware + pcb costs + SIMM connectors + SIMMs. > > Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 13:36:14 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:35:08 GMT Message-Id: <199610131235.MAA27433@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (the boss) X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (the boss) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.4.19 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2866 Lines: 78 On Oct 13, 1996 07:49:10, 'FormatPub@aol.com' wrote: >In a message dated 13/10/96 08:58:17, you write: > >>Come on guys, stop criticising each other's style and lets some >>some meat on the bare bones of SAM? >> >>Whqat about this SIMM Ram pack for instance? >> >>Brian > >Hay Mr Cooke, What you know about SIMM memory? There are a lot of old 1Mb >30pin SIMMS floating about at the moment as the poor saps who have been >conned into Windows 95 have been forced to upgrade their memory fast... > >1) Would you have a problem in designing an external RAM pack that used >simms? >2) Could you do it in a reasonable time? >3) How much? > >Bob. I don't know if any body is looking at the 1 Meg but here are a few notes that I made about it earlier this year. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do do accept any of the following as true. I am no hardware expert and I guessed it all from reading the schematics. It may be of some help in getting a new 1 meg into production. Or even just working out what the f*ck%$g GAL chip actually does. Nev. ------------------ Description of the 1Meg expansion PCB N Young 1996. (Mostly guesswork) IC13 (74LS138) generates AD128/9 used to latch data into IC8/9. IC8 (74LS374) latches data bits D0-7 during an IO write to port 128. Output is enabled when addressing block C of mem (8000H-BFFFH) IC9 (74LS374) latches data bits D0-7 during an IO write to port 129. Output is enabled when addressing block D of mem (C000H to FFFFH) The latched outputs of these chips are PAD0-7. This effectivly allows any 16K block from 4Meg to reside in block C or D. IC11 & IC12 (74LS157) multiplex AD0-AD13 from the Z80 and PAD0&1 to generate MAD0-8 to select any byte in a 64K block. IC15A (74LS139) selects IC8 or IC9 OP enable from AD14 from the Z80. It is used as a simple inverter. IC15B produces BSEL using XMEM and PAD6&7. The GAL chip multiplexes PAD2&3 to give MAD8 to allow selection of any byte in a 256K block. It also generates CAS0-3 from PAD4&5 to select any 256K bank in 1Meg. It also generates MSEL which is used to drive the multiplexers IC11&12. MREQ,CLK RDL BSEL are used to generate /DBDR. MREQ,CLK,RDL,RFSH,PAD4&5 generate CAS0-3, RAS,MSEL MREQ,CLK,RDL,RFSH,PAD2&3 generate MAD8. It has to generate RAS for refresh when there is no MREQ or RDL regardless of BSEL. For any memory access it has to generate MSEL to select the row address then a RAS to latch it into the memory then toggle MSEL to generate the column addresses and then CAS0-3 to activate the required pair of memory chips. Also /DBDR needs to be active to select to direction of the bus drivers on the sam bus during read operations. (ha ha I've since found there are NO data buffers in the sambuss. nfy 14/6/96) Note that Masterdos does not appear to use port 129 so IC10 may be redundant! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 13:50:47 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:49:52 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610131235.MAA27433@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> from "the boss" at Oct 13, 96 12:35:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 451 Lines: 12 WHilst we're talking hardware, can anyone tell me about the /DBDIR line? I've never bothered driving it in any of my hardware, but then I don't have a SAMBus. My guess is that the data busses on each of the CardCage's slots has a bi-directional buffer on it, and /DBDIR just enables that buffer. Is this correct? My friend has said that a piece of hardware I made worked fine on his Cardcage, although it was an output-only piece of hardware. -ANdy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 15:02:41 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:01:26 GMT Message-Id: <199610131401.OAA00358@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 816 Lines: 21 Sorry fellow SAM users - when I pressed send on my last message - I forgot to add the important note that I should have added. It was the the sore head from last night that did it. Note that got left off: The above detail were sent to me by that nice Mr Young at SD Software when I wrote to him earlier in the year about my 1meg and the hard drive. I understand it was a copy of something he did for West Coast some time before. I hope I did not introduce any errors, but as I understand very little of it, please don't hit me if I have. Sorry for not crediting Nev in the first place. Grovel, grovel, sorry, I will buy every product you produce in future just to make up for it. Now back to bed before I do anythingelseasstupidasthis. Bye. Lots of love and fluffy bits. Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 15:08:38 1996 Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:07:07 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <961013074905_209398758@emout01.mail.aol.com> from "FormatPub@aol.com" at Oct 13, 96 07:49:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct13.150733+0100_met.145478-85+32@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1791 Lines: 40 > Hay Mr Cooke, What you know about SIMM memory? There are a lot of old 1Mb > 30pin SIMMS floating about at the moment as the poor saps who have been > conned into Windows 95 have been forced to upgrade their memory fast... > > 1) Would you have a problem in designing an external RAM pack that used > simms? It could be done using the existing GAL chip as found in the 1Mb interface, as well as possibly a little extra fiddling around (I'm not too sure how the SIMMs decide which address they occupy for which SIMMs socket...), but in theory it's not a problem - as long as you have Bruce's GAL chip. Other than that, it involves coming up with another GAL based design to create the requisite RAS and CAS signals for the DRAMs on the SIMMs chip. > 2) Could you do it in a reasonable time? Not at the moment - I'm up to my ear-holes in work... I leave the house at 6:30am, get home at about 7:30pm... it doesn't leave much time for things like food, baths, etc... I could point people towards the right place to find out more info on the chips though. > 3) How much? Apart from the fact that the company I work for have an "invention" clause in my contract for anything remotely related to my day job, and assuming that they thought the SAM was small enough to ignore it, they could still insist I charge my contract rate for the job -- ie 1000UKP per day. Smarts doesn't it? Not that I get that money... sassenfrassenrasseen... I'd do it for the cost of the materials needed to get a working model up and running. But I don't really have time at the moment, so it's moot. Let me see if I can come up with something - at the very least, we could print it in BOAI, and then everyone could build their own, or West Coast could produce a commercial version... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 15:09:04 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:08:12 GMT Message-Id: <199610131408.OAA00631@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (De Boss Man) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (De Boss Man) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 769 Lines: 22 On Oct 13, 1996 13:49:52, 'ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale)' wrote: >WHilst we're talking hardware, can anyone tell me >about the /DBDIR line? I've never bothered driving >it in any of my hardware, but then I don't have a >SAMBus. My guess is that the data busses on each >of the CardCage's slots has a bi-directional buffer >on it, and /DBDIR just enables that buffer. Is >this correct? My friend has said that a piece >of hardware I made worked fine on his Cardcage, >although it was an output-only piece of hardware. > >-ANdy > -- I was told that the DBDIR line was redundent, or at least not used. Twas Cooke told me at one of the Gloucester shows I think. Samsboss (not the Nev, not the Bob, not the Bruce, keep guessing - who am I?) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 15:13:00 1996 Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:11:50 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199610131235.MAA27433@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> from "the boss" at Oct 13, 96 12:35:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct13.151213+0100_met.145478-89+32@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1646 Lines: 36 > The GAL chip multiplexes PAD2&3 to give MAD8 to allow selection of any byte > in a 256K block. It also generates CAS0-3 from PAD4&5 to select any 256K > bank in 1Meg. > It also generates MSEL which is used to drive the multiplexers IC11&12. > > MREQ,CLK RDL BSEL are used to generate /DBDR. > MREQ,CLK,RDL,RFSH,PAD4&5 generate CAS0-3, RAS,MSEL > MREQ,CLK,RDL,RFSH,PAD2&3 generate MAD8. > > It has to generate RAS for refresh when there is no MREQ or RDL regardless > of BSEL. For any memory access it has to generate MSEL to select the row > address then a RAS to latch it into the memory then toggle MSEL to generate > the column addresses and then CAS0-3 to activate the required pair of > memory chips. Also /DBDR needs to be active to select to direction of the > bus drivers on the sam bus during read operations. (ha ha I've since found > there are NO data buffers in the sambuss. nfy 14/6/96) Correctamundo ;) But keeping the DBDR line in at least sticks to the spec... so if people *do* come up with a properly buffered interface it'll stoill work... > Note that Masterdos does not appear to use port 129 so IC10 may be > redundant! Yeah, but saying things like that have a tendency to blow up on people later... such as when people think "I can *use* that port and flick through *this* data" ;) The Ryan interface which martin rookyard and myself cmae up with the design for (at least in part) a while back had ports 130 and 131 as well to provide another 8 bits of addressing for the megs... 1Gb SAM anyone? ;) Might be an idea to put that in the design if this new SIMMS based Meg ever comes out... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 15:15:55 1996 Posted-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:14:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3260F953.1196@pi.net> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:14:43 +0200 From: Stefan Drissen X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PI-32 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory References: <199610131401.OAA00358@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1591 Lines: 32 Samsboss wrote: > The above detail were sent to me by that nice Mr Young at SD Software when > I wrote to him earlier in the year about my 1meg and the hard drive. I > understand it was a copy of something he did for West Coast some time > before. I hope I did not introduce any errors, but as I understand very > little of it, please don't hit me if I have. Did you have some problems using the two at the same time? No all too odd if you look at the load on the databus caused by the IDE interface, it's amazing that it works. I recall that the Z80 databus is only supposed to be able to carry four chips hooked up to it's databus. The SAM itself has a few hooked up, and then along comes the IDE interface with FIVE (I thought) chips connected to the databus. Therefore the 1meg unit no longer will work due to the databus being overloaded. Ian Spencer came up with a fix by putting a buffer chip in between the IDE chips and the databus reducing the databus load to ONE chip. -- Stefan Drissen _____ ___ _ ___ ______ ___ ____ / _// \| | /\ | \ | _/ | /\ | \ _/ aka \_ \| || |__ / \| / | _|| |__ / \| / _| of ENTROPY /____/\___/\____\____\_|_\ |_| \____\____\_|_\___\ / \ / Email: drissen@pi.net http://www.pi.net/~drissen \ / Zevende Herven 6,5232 JZ 's-HERTOGENBOSCH,The Netherlands \ / telephone: +31-73-6414969 \ --------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 15:22:29 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 10:21:26 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961013102125_125490654@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1024 Lines: 29 From: Simon Cooke >It could be done using the existing GAL chip as found in the 1Mb >interface, as well as possibly a little extra fiddling around (I'm not >too sure how the SIMMs decide which address they occupy for which SIMMs >socket...), but in theory it's not a problem - as long as you have >Bruce's GAL chip. Other than that, it involves coming up with another GAL >based design to create the requisite RAS and CAS signals for the DRAMs on >the SIMMs chip. > GAL programming algorwatsit lost by Bruce when his PC went down last year. Blue Alpha should have had a copy on theirs - but we all know the problems with Blue Alpha. So. Back to Square -1. Bits=not problem Time=big problem Money=impossible problem Bob. ps. was on line when this meessage arrived form Simon and also a message fro Samsboss. So that lets Cooke out of the frame. Or is even guessing playing right into the idiots hands? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 15:23:13 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 10:22:29 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961013102219_125491004@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 164 Lines: 7 In a message dated 13/10/96 14:09:20, you write: > >Samsboss (not the Nev, not the Bob, not the Bruce, keep guessing - who am >I?) Does anyone really care???? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 15:26:31 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:25:44 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <961013102219_125491004@emout09.mail.aol.com> from "FormatPub@aol.com" at Oct 13, 96 10:22:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 288 Lines: 12 > > > >Samsboss (not the Nev, not the Bob, not the Bruce, keep guessing - who am > > Does anyone really care???? Possibly not, but anonynimty is nothing to be scared of if the author's contributions are of interest. After all, how does anyone know we are who we say we are?! -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 15:30:21 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:29:24 GMT Message-Id: <199610131429.OAA01416@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Care From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (The Uncared For) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (The Uncared For) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 548 Lines: 23 On Oct 13, 1996 15:25:44, 'ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale)' wrote: >> > >> >Samsboss (not the Nev, not the Bob, not the Bruce, keep guessing - who am >> >> Does anyone really care???? > > >Possibly not, but anonynimty is nothing to be scared of if >the author's contributions are of interest. After all, how >does anyone know we are who we say we are?! > >-Andy > My mummy cares, my daddy cares, my sister cares. Not for me I'm afraid but they all care for someone. Nobody loves me... -- Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 15:31:09 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:29:58 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <3260F953.1196@pi.net> from "Stefan Drissen" at Oct 13, 96 04:14:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 641 Lines: 19 > amazing that it works. I recall that the Z80 databus is only supposed to be > able to carry four chips hooked up to it's databus. The SAM itself has a > few hooked up, and then along comes the IDE interface with FIVE (I thought) > Perhaps we should suggest that all new designs use CMOS gates to look at the address and databus, and high-current devices for driving the databus. IF anyone's address lines run out of juice, a small board with buffers, a eurocard plug and a eurocard socket would be easy to knock up. The only problem is that you then would have a protrusion out the back of the SAM close to 1 foot long! -ANdy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 16:02:17 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:01:11 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <3260F953.1196@pi.net> from "Stefan Drissen" at Oct 13, 96 04:14:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 320 Lines: 9 How many people do you need to start up a newsgroup? If the oric lot can manage it, I'm sure we can. The only disadvantage with a newsgroup is that it is less cosy.... oh, and think of all those postings we'll get from yanks saying "gee, what is this Sam thing" and "say, bro, how do I get one to work on NTSC?" -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 16:43:45 1996 Message-Id: <199610131543.QAA29316@mail.enterprise.net> X-Authentication-Warning: mail.enterprise.net: Host max05-007.enterprise.net [194.72.198.7] didn't use HELO protocol From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) Subject: Let's clear the air then. Date: 13 Oct 1996 16:34:34 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3/NetGate 1.1 Mime-Version: 1.1 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4223 Lines: 68 In a message of 13 Oct 96 FormatPub@aol.com wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: Hi Bob, >> Isn't Bob an arse! He has only been in the mailing list for a short time >> and he's acting as though he owns it. Fac> Now, Now, I don't think that comment is at all justified. Did you get Fac> out of the wrong side of the bed or something? Well, yeah I suppose I did. I had a huge hangover from a party I'd gone to the previous night. The post actually started out as a hello to my old friend, but I thought "bugger it, I might as well be controversial". Sorry for any offence. :) >> He answered your post, but he still didn't say who WCC are. He say's he >> hasn't got time to talk about the subject. It is only because he doesn't >>> wantpeople to know that he is only - and he has only ever been >>> interested in SAMfor what it can do for him. Fac> We all have to make a living. I'm just lucky that I can get by on less Fac> than most people. Granted. :) Fac> But at the end of teh day, at least I have done something over the Fac> years for SAM, and will continue for as long as I possible can - even Fac> to the extent of starting the FORMAT PC magazine in the hope that I can Fac> keep supporting SAM while needing to take less out of it. All that's true Bob. I appreciate what your saying about all the work you've put in. However, over the years, a lot of SAM Users have put in an awful lot of their own time in, for no profit at all. I am not saying it is wrong to invest money and make money (or lose money if the case may be), I'm just a bit concerned that a bit of stratification might have crept into the discussions here, with some people talking down to others because they see themselves with superior status where SAM is concerned. >> Now Brian Gaff (a mate of Bob's) steps in and call's it all >> "back-biting". All people want is some truth for a change. Fac> Whatdo you mean ' truth for a change'? Answers to simple questions. :) I've spoken to quite a few people about West Coast Computers. Some say they exist, some say they don't. You might think that it isn't in your best interests to answer that question. We might ask why you should be so cagey about answering that question? Fac> I have never lied to any SAM user, so what are you going on about. Fac> Put a question, and, if it is in my power so to do, I will answer it. Okay. Who are West Coast Computers - and are they still trading? I'm sorry about all this Bob, but I know a lot of users want to know the answer to the question. I'm not really being nasty asking, I just see this as an opportunity to get things sorted and to know where we all stand. I can see the difficulties that may result with a conflict of interests; i.e. running an independant user group and actually owning the machine "lock, stock and barrel". Simple answers will suffice. :) This isn't the pages of a magazine, where we can decide (with god-like authority) which letters to print and which ones to ignore. Fac> But I am not wasting my time (which could be better used getting a few Fac> more articles ready for the next issue of FORMAT) trying to read More people might subscribe if you listen to them and appreciate the good things that they have done to help to keep SAM alive. A lot of people have complained that you have dismissed their approach to the things they have done. They have felt alienated when they have been labelled "useless demo coders", etc. :( Fac> between the lines and work out what question somebody is actually Fac> asking. I'm not telepathic. If you state a question clearly I will try Fac> to answer it. But don't be general, a question that is too vague would Fac> require to long an answer for these hallowed pages. My answer to the Fac> question of Life, the Universe, and Everything - will still be 6*7 Fac> even if it takes several books to get it across. Fac> And it is nice to know that I have a few freinds on the list. Bob. Okay, let's just remember that we all have different perspectives where our beloved machine is concerned. I'm glad that you're here to talk. Isn't getting things off our chests a good thing? It can help to clear the air at least. :) Regards, _ |_)ave From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 16:48:58 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:47:41 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: Sam-users Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang In-Reply-To: <961013074921_209398804@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2852 Lines: 66 On Sun, 13 Oct 1996 FormatPub@aol.com wrote: > >He answered your post, but he still didn't say who WCC are. He say's he > >hasn't got time to talk about the subject. It is only because he doesn't > want > >people to know that he is only - and he has only ever been interested in SAM > >for what it can do for him. > > We all have to make a living. I'm just lucky that I can get by on less than > most people. > But at the end of teh day, at least I have done something over the years for > SAM, and will continue for as long as I possible can - even to the extent of > starting the FORMAT PC magazine in the hope that I can keep supporting SAM > while needing to take less out of it. > You still haven't answered the first question! And is the ONLY point of a FORMAT PC magazine to help the Sam? > Whatdo you mean ' truth for a change'? > I have never lied to any SAM user, so what are you going on about. Put a > question, and, if it is in my power so to do, I will answer it. But I am not > wasting my time (which could be better used getting a few more articles ready > for the next issue of FORMAT) trying to read between the lines and work out > what question somebody is actually asking. I'm not telepathic. If you state a > question clearly I will try to answer it. But don't be general, a question > that is too vague would require to long an answer for these hallowed pages. > My answer to the question of Life, the Universe, and Everything - will still > be 6*7 even if it takes several books to get it across. For a long time I have tried to be totally impartial, but sometimes things are said which cannot be compatible with what you're saying. So, just for the record here are some specific questions: Are you involved in the management or directorship of West Coast Computers? If not: who is, and why are you keeping such a watchful eye over their ROM copyright agreements? What significant steps have been taken by this company to promote Sam? Given that Frank Broughton owns Revelation, and this is not related to Format, why does Format stock Revelation's products at the Gloucester shows? Did or did not the liquidator of SamCo recieve money from you for the rights to software? Have royalties been paid to the programmer of, say, Batz 'n Ballz since Frank Broughton took over? Do you dispute the opinion that Persona has been granted copyright from the authors of several old-Revelation titles, to the extent that the programmer has added new scrolling messages which say Persona as opposed to Revelation? I would like to stress that these questions are not intended to be accusations in any way, since I have only second-hand and probably biased knowledge of the circumstances behind them. However, you can't all be right, and as has been said before we all would like to know the truth for a change. Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 17:15:14 1996 Message-Id: <199610131615.RAA01695@mail.enterprise.net> X-Authentication-Warning: mail.enterprise.net: Host max01-043.enterprise.net [194.72.197.43] didn't use HELO protocol From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) Subject: SIMM Memory Date: 13 Oct 1996 16:56:19 References: X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3/NetGate 1.1 Mime-Version: 1.1 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1105 Lines: 27 * Cross-Reply from area 'ML-SAM.USERS' (ML-SAM.USERS) In a message of 13 Oct 96 Andrew M Gale wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: Hi Andrew, AMG> How many people do you need to start up a newsgroup? If the oric lot Probably a lot less than subscribe to here. AMG> can manage it, I'm sure we can. The only disadvantage with a newsgroup AMG> is that it is less cosy.... oh, and think of all those postings we'll AMG> get from yanks saying "gee, what is this Sam thing" and "say, bro, how AMG> do I get one to work on NTSC?" It might actually be a great thing getting SAM talked about in a Usenet group. Is there a limit to the number of users a mailing list like this can be maintained at? If not, then we could all advertise this user list in our sig lines. I know that there is the Sinclair group, but I always get the feeling that SAM is slightly off topic - not being one of Uncle Clive's creations. There are lots of newsgroups, like say, alt.music.iggy-pop, that only get one or two messages a day if they're lucky. Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore email - davewhitmore@enterprise.net From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 17:15:14 1996 Message-Id: <199610131615.RAA01701@mail.enterprise.net> X-Authentication-Warning: mail.enterprise.net: Host max01-043.enterprise.net [194.72.197.43] didn't use HELO protocol From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) Subject: Whoooo are you - oo oo - oo oo.. Date: 13 Oct 1996 17:00:15 References: <199610131408.OAA00631@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3/NetGate 1.1 Mime-Version: 1.1 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 301 Lines: 15 In a message of 13 Oct 96 De Boss Man wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: Hi De Boss Man, DBM> Samsboss (not the Nev, not the Bob, not the Bruce, keep guessing - DBM> who am I?) Let's narrow things down. Are you big in Fred? Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore email - davewhitmore@enterprise.net From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 17:15:51 1996 Message-Id: <199610131615.RAA01712@mail.enterprise.net> X-Authentication-Warning: mail.enterprise.net: Host max01-043.enterprise.net [194.72.197.43] didn't use HELO protocol From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) Subject: SIMM Memory Date: 13 Oct 1996 17:05:02 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3/NetGate 1.1 Mime-Version: 1.1 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 377 Lines: 16 In a message of 13 Oct 96 Samsboss wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: S> The above detail were sent to me by that nice Mr Young at SD Software S> when I wrote to him earlier in the year about my 1meg and the hard ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hey Nev, you must know who this is? Check your mail and let us know. :) Samboss, why don't you use your real name? Bye, _ |_)ave From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 17:23:47 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 17:22:55 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Whoooo are you - oo oo - oo oo.. In-Reply-To: <199610131615.RAA01701@mail.enterprise.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 451 Lines: 19 On 13 Oct 1996, Dave Whitmore wrote: > In a message of 13 Oct 96 De Boss Man wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: > > Hi De Boss Man, > > DBM> Samsboss (not the Nev, not the Bob, not the Bruce, keep guessing - > DBM> who am I?) > > Let's narrow things down. Are you big in Fred? > Errm, could it be Graham Goring? After all he's appeared in Fred under at least four pseudonyms! (Those plus just as many incorrect spellings of Anonymity) Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 19:13:27 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:11:35 -0400 From: Neville Young <106166.1560@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. To: sam users Message-Id: <199610131412_MC1-ACF-6F52@compuserve.com> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3070 Lines: 70 A.D.R. wrote: >> Well, I intended it mainly for people who have access to a >> CD-ROM drive on a PC a Mac or a Unix workstation but I >> just thought, shouldn't it be possible to connect an IDE >> CD-ROM drive to the SAM IDE interface? (of course drivers >> are needed but I wonder if it would work at hardware level) >> >> Stefan, mabe you could try this? >Hmmmm, with my very limited hardware knowledge I can't see why this >wouldn't work. After all IDE CD-rom drives are hooked up to a normal >IDE interface on a PC aren't they? Although I do have access to an IDE >CD-rom drive, I don't think the owner will be too happy with me >experimenting with it... let alone me having the time. :( >Funnily enough I /STILL/ haven't used the IDE interface I bought at the >last show in Gloucester... I wish it had had a warning to go along with >it telling you that it did NOT work on ALL IDE drives (personally I >reckon that SEAGATE is a pretty big brand). Another nice thing would >have been some full techy information on how to access the drive >directly. Yes it would have been nice. Let me know if you get some. >The fact that all the supplied little basic programs have >hardly any documentation is disgraceful! sorry. I always get told off for poor documentation (Ian don't tell Jeremy) >Just in case anyone is >interested I uploaded a (comet) source file (BIOS.TXT) to NVG a while >ago (which I did mention at the time), which should allow you to do your >basic reading and writing of the harddrive. And amazingly it looks just like the code put out by my C compiler. If you've not got my sources ask and you shall receive. >There is a small error in >the source though. At the time I was not aware that you were able to do >a hardware reset of the drive, this is accomplished by the commands >which have lots of questionmarks behind them in the source. Take care the newer interfaces no not use the software to drive a hard reset. the reset line is now tied to the Sam's reset line. NEC drives do not like to have a hardware reset. Some Seagate don't mind. Some Conner only work after a soft reset. Can any one give a set of rules for a reset that will work with ALL makes of drive. >Have there been any updates on the HDOS yet Nev? It has been a long >time since anything has been done.... Sorry but had to go back to work to keep the wolf from the door. Time now very limited and mostly being used up with the 1Meg problem. Stefan Drissen _____ ___ _ ___ ______ ___ ____ / _// \| | /\ | \ | _/ | /\ | \ _/ aka \_ \| || |__ / \| / | _|| |__ / \| / _| of ENTROPY /____/\___/\____\____\_|_\ |_| \____\____\_|_\___\ / \ / Email: drissen@pi.net http://www.pi.net/~drissen \ / Zevende Herven 6,5232 JZ 's-HERTOGENBOSCH,The Netherlands \ / telephone: +31-73-6414969 \ --------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 19:13:39 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:11:41 -0400 From: Neville Young <106166.1560@compuserve.com> Subject: I don't believe it! To: sam users Message-Id: <199610131412_MC1-ACF-6F53@compuserve.com> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1499 Lines: 52 Hells bells. Can any of you imagine what a shock it is to be trawling through loads of mail and see something from yourself you didn't send. But even so It was probabally a good idea to post up my thoughts on the 1 meg. Now let me see. Z80 data bus loading. True the IDE interface does have 5 chips on the data bus. 3 permanatly connected and 2 tristate for writing to the Z80. ( I make no secret of what is inside the box). Note that the 1Meg has 2 74LS374 permanatley connected and 8 (eight) tristate memory chips connected to the Z80 data bus. I did try using CMOS chips on the IDE but found that too many drives would not respond so had to use 74LS types. (They did work with cables less than 15 cm so I assume it was due to signal loss down the cable). Most of the original probs were timing which is (I hope) fixed by a 10 minute mod to the pcb. (Any one not got it let me know. You pay the postage and I'll do it for free or I'll send details and you can do it at your own risk). However althoght there are some using both IDE & 1Meg apperently without probs I am not happy that it doesn't work for all. I hope to get Ian's mod on a couple to see if that fixes the problem. Meenwhile if any of you have constructive ideas what is going on let me know. Don't get the idea that I'm alturistic or anything but I havn't made any money out of the IDE (yet). Also if any of you are daft enough to want to see the source for hdos just ask. Cookie did and got it. The real Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 20:11:54 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:10:51 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961013151050_542281920@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 6019 Lines: 135 In a message dated 13/10/96 15:43:49 Titled: Let's clear the air then. davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) wrote: >In a message of 13 Oct 96 FormatPub@aol.com wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: > >Hi Bob, > > >> Isn't Bob an arse! He has only been in the mailing list for a short time > >> and he's acting as though he owns it. > >> Now, Now, I don't think that comment is at all justified. Did you get > >> out of the wrong side of the bed or something? > >Well, yeah I suppose I did. I had a huge hangover from a party I'd gone to >the previous night. The post actually started out as a hello to my old >friend, but I thought "bugger it, I might as well be controversial". Sorry >for any offence. :) Ok, no probs really. Were you on the same bender as Samsboss? > > >> He answered your post, but he still didn't say who WCC are. He say's he > >> hasn't got time to talk about the subject. It is only because he doesn't > >>> want people to know that he is only - and he has only ever been > >>> interested in SAM for what it can do for him. > > >> We all have to make a living. I'm just lucky that I can get by on less > >> than most people. > >Granted. :) > > >> But at the end of teh day, at least I have done something over the > >> years for SAM, and will continue for as long as I possible can - even > >> to the extent of starting the FORMAT PC magazine in the hope that I can > >> keep supporting SAM while needing to take less out of it. > >All that's true Bob. I appreciate what your saying about all the work you've >put in. However, over the years, a lot of SAM Users have put in an awful lot >of their own time in, for no profit at all. I am not saying it is wrong to >invest money and make money (or lose money if the case may be), I'm just a >bit concerned that a bit of stratification might have crept into the >discussions here, with some people talking down to others because they see >themselves with superior status where SAM is concerned. Don't fully understand your point, but will pass on to other bits. > > >> Now Brian Gaff (a mate of Bob's) steps in and call's it all > >> "back-biting". All people want is some truth for a change. > > > >> What do you mean ' truth for a change'? > >Answers to simple questions. :) > >I've spoken to quite a few people about West Coast Computers. Some say they >exist, some say they don't. You might think that it isn't in your best >interests to answer that question. We might ask why you should be so cagey >about answering that question? > > >> I have never lied to any SAM user, so what are you going on about. > >> Put a question, and, if it is in my power so to do, I will answer it. > >Okay. Who are West Coast Computers - and are they still trading? West Coast Computers still exist. Although they are no longer involved in the 'Day to Day' running of SAM as far as the UK is concerned (see below) they still have an interest in SAM, and want to see it succeed. >I'm sorry about all this Bob, but I know a lot of users want to know the >answer to the question. Do they? I think what most SAM owners want is more new software and hardware. >I'm not really being nasty asking, I just see this as >an opportunity to get things sorted and to know where we all stand. I can see >the difficulties that may result with a conflict of interests; i.e. running >an independent user group and actually owning the machine "lock, stock and >barrel". Simple answers will suffice. :) Nobody owns SAM, lock stock and barrel. That was a deliberate policy following the collapse of SAMCO. West Coast own the hardware rights. Revelation own the software rights. Format Publications owns the SAM Technical manual and the rights to the SAM User Manual. We also hold a quantity of spares in trust for the future. > >This isn't the pages of a magazine, where we can decide (with god-like >authority) which letters to print and which ones to ignore. I never flinch from running letters in FORMAT that argue alternative lines - no true editor would - in fact, it adds to the thrill of being an editor. Of course I reserve the right, as any editor does, to add my reply. But the letters page is correctly titled in FORMAT as 'Your Letter' because that is what it is. > > >> But I am not wasting my time (which could be better used getting a few > >> more articles ready for the next issue of FORMAT) trying to read > >More people might subscribe if you listen to them and appreciate the good >things that they have done to help to keep SAM alive. A lot of people have >complained that you have dismissed their approach to the things they have >done. They have felt alienated when they have been labelled "useless demo >coders", etc. :( > I have called people USELESS DEMO CODERS in the past, but that is "useless demo" coders. It is the useless demos, on which I've seen so many people waste their time and talent, that anger me - not the coders. Why? That is the question. Why waste so much time and effort? Are you just trying to get recognition? Because if that is the case then I am more than happy to help any one of you finish something constructive that will really do SAM some good. There is real talent in the SAM field, I just wish a little more of it was put to real use. > .> between the lines and work out what question somebody is actually > >> asking. I'm not telepathic. If you state a question clearly I will try > >> to answer it. But don't be general, a question that is too vague would > >> require to long an answer for these hallowed pages. My answer to the > >> question of Life, the Universe, and Everything - will still be 6*7 > >> even if it takes several books to get it across. > > >> And it is nice to know that I have a few friends on the list. Bob. > >Okay, let's just remember that we all have different perspectives where our >beloved machine is concerned. I'm glad that you're here to talk. Isn't >getting things off our chests a good thing? It can help to clear the air at >least. :) > >Regards, > > _ > |_)ave > From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 20:12:33 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:11:06 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961013151104_542281986@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 5739 Lines: 145 In a message dated 13/10/96 15:49:06, asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk (A.S. Collier) wrote: >On Sun, 13 Oct 1996 FormatPub@aol.com wrote: > >> >He answered your post, but he still didn't say who WCC are. He say's he >> >hasn't got time to talk about the subject. It is only because he doesn't >> want >> >people to know that he is only - and he has only ever been interested in >SAM >> >for what it can do for him. >> >> We all have to make a living. I'm just lucky that I can get by on less than >> most people. >> But at the end of the day, at least I have done something over the years >for >> SAM, and will continue for as long as I possible can - even to the extent >of >> starting the FORMAT PC magazine in the hope that I can keep supporting SAM >> while needing to take less out of it. >> > >You still haven't answered the first question! And is the ONLY point of a >FORMAT PC magazine to help the Sam? If you read FORMAT then I've told readers several times. > >> What do you mean ' truth for a change'? >> I have never lied to any SAM user, so what are you going on about. Put a >> question, and, if it is in my power so to do, I will answer it. But I am >not >> wasting my time (which could be better used getting a few more articles >ready >> for the next issue of FORMAT) trying to read between the lines and work out >> what question somebody is actually asking. I'm not telepathic. If you state >a >> question clearly I will try to answer it. But don't be general, a question >> that is too vague would require to long an answer for these hallowed pages. >> My answer to the question of Life, the Universe, and Everything - will >still >> be 6*7 even if it takes several books to get it across. > >For a long time I have tried to be totally impartial, but sometimes things >are said which cannot be compatible with what you're saying. So, just for >the record here are some specific questions: > >Are you involved in the management or directorship of West Coast >Computers? No. >If not: who is, Why would you want to know? >and why are you keeping such a watchful eye >over their ROM copyright agreements? Something came up on this mailing list - which I had access to while they did not - so I just put up the facts, plain and simple. >What significant steps have been >taken by this company to promote Sam? Define 'promote SAM'. Since SAMCO went down WCC have kept SAM production going, kept items like interfaces going. Kept sales ticking over so that at least there are SAMs to buy is people want them. Or would you have preferred to have them spend, spend, spend (on advertising) and gone bust in 12 months? Be grateful that SAM is still alive, despite the hard efforts of some to undermine confidence in our favourite machine. > >Given that Frank Broughton owns Revelation, and this is not related to >Format, why does Format stock Revelation's products at the Gloucester >shows? So does FRED. But the real answer is, because we do the mail-order dispatch for Revelation (have done from day one in fact). It is a concept called Primary Distribution. Used widely in the software industry by many of the big companies. Even Sinclair used the method with most of his computer products. As Frank has a full time job which means he is away from home (in Dawlish, Devon, if you want to be nosy) he uses us to do all the real work on a percentage basis - no work=no money. But no sales also equals no expenses for Revelation (other than the cost of the adverts). We used to provide the same service for S.D.Software when Nev was, for work related reasons, unable to handle things himself. > >Did or did not the liquidator of SamCo receive money from you for the >rights to software? The agreement with the liquidator is confidential and I am not at liberty to go into details. > >Have royalties been paid to the programmer of, say, Batz 'n Ballz since >Frank Broughton took over? How should I know? > >Do you dispute the opinion that Persona has been granted copyright from >the authors of several old-Revelation titles, to the extent that the >programmer has added new scrolling messages which say Persona as opposed >to Revelation? Who or what is Persona? And what old Revelation titles are you talking about. > >I would like to stress that these questions are not intended to be >accusations in any way, since I have only second-hand and probably biased >knowledge of the circumstances behind them. However, you can't all be >right, and as has been said before we all would like to know the >truth for a change. I do take exception to that phrase 'the truth for a change'. Just what exactly are you getting at? As I've already said, I've never knowingly told a lie to a SAM user. Not volunteering information is another thing, as is refusing to answer a question. However, when I've spoken to people on the telephone I have always tried to be open and approachable about things. One point I would make here is that it is very difficult to put into writing some things that require a knowledge about the history of SAM which only a very few people have. Short of spending lots of time writing details which would bore most people to tears, it is often much better just to keep quiet. Please do not take this as being evasive - it is not. But also realize that there are some things that you just do not have the right to know, I may know them - but they are not mine to tell. I think that holds true for several other people as well. Look at it this way - if you work for/with a company, is it write to air all of their business secrets in public? I think not. Although I probably know more that anyone, other than Alan Miles and Bruce Gordon, I will have to save lots for my memoirs. > > Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 20:27:02 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 19:26:14 GMT Message-Id: <199610131926.TAA14041@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Whoooo are you - oo oo - oo oo.. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 471 Lines: 25 On Oct 13, 1996 17:00:15, 'davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore)' wrote: >In a message of 13 Oct 96 De Boss Man wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: > >Hi De Boss Man, > >DBM> Samsboss (not the Nev, not the Bob, not the Bruce, keep guessing - >DBM> who am I?) > >Let's narrow things down. Are you big in Fred? > >Bye, > >_ >|_)ave >(/\)hitmore email - davewhitmore@enterprise.net > -- I'm big in everything. Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 13 20:28:23 1996 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 19:27:34 GMT Message-Id: <199610131927.TAA14103@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Whoooo are you - oo oo - oo oo.. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 690 Lines: 29 On Oct 13, 1996 17:22:55, '"A.S. Collier" ' wrote: > >On 13 Oct 1996, Dave Whitmore wrote: > >> In a message of 13 Oct 96 De Boss Man wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: >> >> Hi De Boss Man, >> >> DBM> Samsboss (not the Nev, not the Bob, not the Bruce, keep guessing - >> DBM> who am I?) >> >> Let's narrow things down. Are you big in Fred? >> > >Errm, could it be Graham Goring? After all he's appeared in Fred under at >least four pseudonyms! (Those plus just as many incorrect spellings of >Anonymity) > >Andrew > -- Well, I did usedtabe on the list as another name butta noooo I'ma not de Goring type. Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 07:03:20 1996 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:03:58 +0100 (BST) From: Si Owen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Organisation: Wordcraft International Ltd. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 534 Lines: 15 On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Dan Doore wrote: > * Denotes it could be totally wrong :) > > *Simon Owen - si@obobo.demon.co.uk Correct! Si /------------------------------------+----------------------------------------\ | Si Owen | Home: si@obobo.demon.co.uk | | Wordcraft International Ltd, UK | Work: sowen@wordcraft.co.uk | | Fax: +44-1332-295525 | WWW: www.obobo.demon.co.uk | \------------------------------------+----------------------------------------/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 07:08:31 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:20:43 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <18667@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 426 Lines: 13 I cannot see where the problem lies with getting at Sam discs. I can copy them fine on my HD drive in my PC with Teledisk. I can read the directory with both DISCIPLE.EXE and the Z80 Emulator. I can load code from them if converted with SAMTOD and can load Snaps. I can write Disciple files to them with Z80. Ib short, it must be some hardware difference in SAmboss's PC that is the problem. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 07:09:09 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:27:13 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <18668@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 712 Lines: 27 In message <961013074919_209398797@emout03.mail.aol.com> FormatPub@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 11/10/96 22:26:10, you write: > > > Do you ever get the impression that some people just have to have something > to say - even when it is something that is not worth saying. > > How about writing an AI program that will vet incoming mail so crap can be > filtered out? > It would also do away with all the junk mail that keeps arriving in my email > box. > > Oh well, I can dream. > > Bob. > But I thought Samboss WAS an AI program! OK Bob, I know you are baiting him, but I have just had to delete half a meg of SAM messages of which about 10% were worth reading! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 07:09:18 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:45:13 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <18670@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Geraniums and nuclear fallout X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 325 Lines: 14 In message <961013102219_125491004@emout09.mail.aol.com> FormatPub@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 13/10/96 14:09:20, you write: > > > > >Samsboss (not the Nev, not the Bob, not the Bruce, keep guessing - who am > >I?) > > Does anyone really care???? > I can live without the info. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 07:09:19 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:42:05 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <18669@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1323 Lines: 42 In message <961013102125_125490654@emout19.mail.aol.com> FormatPub@aol.com writes: > From: Simon Cooke In a message dated 13/10/96 14:08:26,Simon Cooke wrote, talking about simms? > > > >It could be done using the existing GAL chip as found in the 1Mb > >interface, as well as possibly a little extra fiddling around (I'm not > >too sure how the SIMMs decide which address they occupy for which SIMMs > >socket...), but in theory it's not a problem - as long as you have > >Bruce's GAL chip. Other than that, it involves coming up with another GAL > >based design to create the requisite RAS and CAS signals for the DRAMs on > >the SIMMs chip. > > > > GAL programming algorwatsit lost by Bruce when his PC went down last year. > Blue Alpha should have had a copy on theirs - but we all know the problems > with Blue Alpha. > No backups? I guess that reverse engineering is not possible? > So. Back to Square -1. > > Bits=not problem > Time=big problem > Money=impossible problem > > Bob. > > ps. was on line when this meessage arrived form Simon and also a message fro > Samsboss. So that lets Cooke out of the frame. Or is even guessing playing > right into the idiots hands? > > > Aw, its all in the best possible taste, as it were! :-) Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 07:09:41 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:52:20 GMT From: warthog@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Warthog) Message-Id: <18671@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Whoooo are you - oo oo - oo oo.. X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 106 Lines: 13 Proposal... alt.identity.samboss.d Create it now and we can all have some peace. Warthog -- Warty From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 08:27:49 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 07:55:06 +0100 (BST) From: Si Owen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe In-Reply-To: <18667@bgserv.demon.co.uk> Message-Id: Organisation: Wordcraft International Ltd. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1799 Lines: 41 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996, Brian Gaff Sam Dept. wrote: > I cannot see where the problem lies with getting at Sam discs. I > can copy them fine on my HD drive in my PC with Teledisk. I can > read the directory with both DISCIPLE.EXE and the Z80 Emulator. > I can load code from them if converted with SAMTOD and can load > Snaps. I can write Disciple files to them with Z80. I've been in touch with Allan in the last couple of weeks about just this problem! I thought it was just me that was having problems! I can copy Sam disks with Teledisk without any problems. I can also list directories with SDIR.EXE. As soon as I try from Linux, it can't even read sector 1 of track 0! If I access the disk as a 360K floppy (through /dev/fd0D360) it reads 360K worth of data from the disk, including sector 1 of track 0. Shame I can't use any of it! > Ib short, it must be some hardware difference in SAmboss's PC > that is the problem. I've tried 6 PCs in work and they've all done the same thing. A mixture of Pentiums and 486s with old and new floppy drives, and different BIOSes... I have to say that most of my floppies are formatted with MasterDOS which uses its own disk skew. I'll try a SamDOS formatted disk tonight. If it is only the skew, would it be possible to make a Teledisk image of a disk that works, and then just disk copy a non-working disk onto the disk? Anyone wanna try that? Si /------------------------------------+----------------------------------------\ | Si Owen | Home: si@obobo.demon.co.uk | | Wordcraft International Ltd, UK | Work: sowen@wordcraft.co.uk | | Fax: +44-1332-295525 | WWW: www.obobo.demon.co.uk | \------------------------------------+----------------------------------------/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 08:35:28 1996 Message-Id: <9610140733.AA26432@namu24> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Cc: slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 10 Oct 96 13:12:42 BST." <96Oct10.131327+0100_met.145480-26246+60@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 09:33:11 +0200 From: slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de X-Mts: smtp Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 270 Lines: 11 >> slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de > - Slawomir Grodowski. May no longer be at this address. > > I'm now back to the list and I will be more active , whn I read all 1000 emails ,where I got :-) For all : I can upload to nvg a PC Mouse driver , Who want it ?? Slawek. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 08:49:50 1996 Message-Id: <9610140746.AA21985@namu24> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Cc: slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 12 Oct 96 11:25:28 +0200." <325F6408.6075@pi.net> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 09:46:58 +0200 From: slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de X-Mts: smtp Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 162 Lines: 7 >Have there been any updates on the HDOS yet Nev? It has been a long >time since anything has been done.... > I have the last HDOS Version 2.1.2 ... Slawek. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 08:52:13 1996 Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 08:49:13 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <961013102125_125490654@emout19.mail.aol.com> from "FormatPub@aol.com" at Oct 13, 96 10:21:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct14.084937+0100_met.145526-85+58@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 381 Lines: 11 > ps. was on line when this meessage arrived form Simon and also a message fro > Samsboss. So that lets Cooke out of the frame. Or is even guessing playing > right into the idiots hands? I dunno really... but what makes you think that I can't bodge a fakemail or two? ;) Nah... he's not me... and to be honest, going off some of the postings, I'm rather glad of that... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 08:56:50 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 08:53:02 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9610140753.AA15826@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 906 Lines: 25 > Well hang about a while because I may be uploading some of my own stuff in > the not too distant future. First I need to find out what exactly is > already there though....... These computers don't have UNZIP.... or > Teledisk.... Computer manager doesn't want people installing > applications... this could be tricky.... You can download those applications from simtel sites. Is there a need for those utilities on the archive? > > Also, inspired by the difficulties I've had so far in getting things to > work I'd probably do all the compression at the Sam end, and maybe even > add a boot sector so we don't have to worry about start address, call > addresses etc etc. What do you think? There is already compression software at the SAM end. However, it's there as a teledisk image....:/ > > Oh, and I'm only doing this if MNEMOtech gets a folder like Entropy and > ESI etc..... Done. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 09:05:37 1996 Message-Id: <9610140802.AA24342@namu24> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Cc: slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de Subject: Re: I don't believe it! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 13 Oct 96 14:11:41 EDT." <199610131412_MC1-ACF-6F53@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 10:02:52 +0200 From: slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de X-Mts: smtp Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 360 Lines: 14 >Also if any of you are daft enough to want to see the source for hdos just >ask. >Cookie did and got it. > >The real Nev. > Hi Nev !!! I WANT to see the sorce for HDOS . Is it writen in C ? I wrote a dos for this IDE interface too , but this was in MC and only 6 kB long but not with all procedures ( only dir , load , save , make dir , erase ) . Slawek. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 09:22:43 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961014082207.002fa564@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:22:07 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Whoooo are you - oo oo - oo oo.. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 193 Lines: 8 >Well, I did usedtabe on the list as another name >butta noooo I'ma not de Goring type. It's that guy who we unsubbed for having a really stupid sword in his sig, isn't it? :) :) :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 09:25:48 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961014082200.002e0530@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:22:00 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2486 Lines: 55 At 15:10 13/10/96 -0400, you wrote: Dave Whitmore said: >>More people might subscribe if you listen to them and appreciate the good >>things that they have done to help to keep SAM alive. A lot of people have >>complained that you have dismissed their approach to the things they have >>done. They have felt alienated when they have been labelled "useless demo >>coders", etc. :( And you replied: >I have called people USELESS DEMO CODERS in the past, but that is "useless >demo" coders. It is the useless demos, on which I've seen so many people >waste their time and talent, that anger me - not the coders. Why? That is the >question. Why waste so much time and effort? Are you just trying to get >recognition? Because if that is the case then I am more than happy to help >any one of you finish something constructive that will really do SAM some >good. > >There is real talent in the SAM field, I just wish a little more of it was >put to real use. > The thing is though, it takes the average[1] demo coder about a day at most to put together a demo, if he has the requisite bits -- ie graphics, music, a word-processor or line editor on which to write his scrolltext. That's for trivial demos, such as bouncing sprites, scroll text, vubars, a starfield and a tune playing in the background. A game on the other hand can be months or years of work[2], because of the problem of designing and implementing the game logic involved, and keeping the speed up. Utilities on the other hand can take even longer to produce -- depending on how much of a perfectionist the coder is (eg. Termite... *ahem*). Demo coding pro's: It teaches fast, efficient, optimised coding, and sometimes efficient use of system resources. It hones talent. For the amount of time it takes to code a *simple* demo, the amount of learning achieved is immense. Demo coding con's: They're just demos. They serve no useful purpose other than the first two pro's in the above list. Oh, and to massage egos. Let's put it this way: Termite's screen update would be about 4 to 16 times slower if I hadn't coded demos. Simon Cooke. [1] Not that I'm saying there is such a thing as an "average" demo coder, nor that I'm one of them. Neither am I saying that I'm *not* one of them. Nor am I pointing the finger at anyone and saying "you are an *average* demo coder". [2] Depending on the game, of course. A game of pong would take the average coder an afternoon to knock up. Lemmings could take a year or two ;) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 09:28:16 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961014082714.002f91c4@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:27:14 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SIMM Memory Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 673 Lines: 27 At 06:42 14/10/96 GMT, you wrote: >Status: >> GAL programming algorwatsit lost by Bruce when his PC went down last year. >> Blue Alpha should have had a copy on theirs - but we all know the problems >> with Blue Alpha. >> > >No backups? I guess that reverse engineering is not possible? Alas, nope... there's a read-protect fuse link which can be blown, and it was, AFAIK. Simon > >> So. Back to Square -1. >> >> Bits=not problem >> Time=big problem >> Money=impossible problem *grins* Well... the money's not impossible... I'd do it for free if I could cover development costs... but I think Mr Gale may be slightly better at hardware design than myself. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 09:48:37 1996 Message-Id: <199610140946.KAA04696@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:51:29 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 684 Lines: 21 > > Demo coding pro's: > It teaches fast, efficient, optimised coding, and sometimes efficient use of > system resources. > It hones talent. > For the amount of time it takes to code a *simple* demo, the amount of > learning achieved is immense. > > Demo coding con's: > They're just demos. They serve no useful purpose other than the first two > pro's in the above list. Oh, and to massage egos. > Another useless message from RJV Graphics, our next demo will be completed with in a few weeks time, the current title is Ka-Wa-i-i. See ya (next year). Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Red leader here: watch out we are running out of diskspace real soon! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 09:56:32 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961014085609.0030c560@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:56:09 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 247 Lines: 9 At 10:51 14/10/96 +0100, you wrote: >Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics >[rjvveeke@caiw.nl] >Red leader here: watch out we are running out of diskspace real soon! Rob... are you and Stefan coming over to the Gloucester show this year? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 10:02:47 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:57:02 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <18669@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Oct 14, 96 06:42:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 420 Lines: 12 > > GAL programming algorwatsit lost by Bruce when his PC went down last year. > > No backups? I guess that reverse engineering is not possible? > I've seen a company advertising in the back of Everyday Electronics saying they can copy pre-programmed PALs, PLAs - and I guess that might include GALs. I can't remember their name just now, but if anyone wants it I can dig it out - they live in Bath somewhere. -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 10:11:14 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:06:55 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9610140806.AA15833@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 258 Lines: 8 > GAL programming algorwatsit lost by Bruce when his PC went down last year. > Blue Alpha should have had a copy on theirs - but we all know the problems > with Blue Alpha. Depending on severity, it is possible to recover data from crashed drives. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 10:20:20 1996 Message-Id: <9610140806.AA1594@worldcom-45.worldcom.com> To: sam users From: Stefan Drissen Date: 14 Oct 96 9:15:17 Subject: Re: I don't believe it! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2791 Lines: 65 ********************************************************************************************************* This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************************************************************* To: sam-users @ nvg.unit.no (sam users) @ Internet cc: (bcc: Stefan Drissen/ACC/Breda/C&L/NL) From: 106166.1560 @ compuserve.com (Neville Young) @ Internet @ WORLDCOM @ C&L INT EXTERNAL @ C&L INT Date: 13/10/96 14:11:41 CDT Subject: I don't believe it! > Most of the original probs were timing which is (I hope) fixed by a 10 > minute mod to the pcb. > (Any one not got it let me know. You pay the postage and I'll do it for > free or I'll send details > and you can do it at your own risk). Could you send me the details? As you may have already heard I'm having problems getting a Seagate ST157A (40 meg drive) working with the IDE interface. Writing works fine, reading is however not always ok due to the odd byte being skipped. I assume that this is a timing problem since the drive works fine with my PC and I also tried another power supply (apparently this can also create a reading problem). Have you got the details in a text file that you could email to me? > However althoght there are some using both IDE & 1Meg apperently without > probs > I am not happy that it doesn't work for all. I hope to get Ian's mod on a > couple to see > if that fixes the problem. According to Wolfgang (of the WoMo team) and Ian Spencer it does. According to Edwin Blink, who saw Wolfgang's IDE interface in Houten a buffer chip is used to buffer the signal to the other five chips - he is using a buffer chip in his design as well. > Also if any of you are daft enough to want to see the source for hdos just > ask. > Cookie did and got it. Are you talking about the C source? I'd like a copy, I had a shot at disassembling the format routine - but C compiles to amazingly lousy code which is a real bugger at trying to read! > The real Nev. The real Stefan Drissen. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 10:20:35 1996 Message-Id: <9610140806.AA1592@worldcom-45.worldcom.com> To: sam users From: Stefan Drissen Date: 14 Oct 96 9:29:32 Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2917 Lines: 66 ********************************************************************************************************* This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************************************************************* To: sam-users @ nvg.unit.no (sam users) @ internet cc: (bcc: Stefan Drissen/ACC/Breda/C&L/NL) From: 106166.1560 @ compuserve.com (Neville Young) @ Internet @ WORLDCOM @ C&L INT EXTERNAL @ C&L INT Date: 13/10/96 14:11:35 CDT Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. >>Funnily enough I /STILL/ haven't used the IDE interface I bought at the >>last show in Gloucester... I wish it had had a warning to go along with >>it telling you that it did NOT work on ALL IDE drives (personally I >>reckon that SEAGATE is a pretty big brand). Another nice thing would >>have been some full techy information on how to access the drive >>directly. >Yes it would have been nice. Let me know if you get some. I could send you a text file that Cookie sent me which comes from the AT Attachment standards committee - very very informative! 180k worth explaining everything about AT Attachments. >>Just in case anyone is >>interested I uploaded a (comet) source file (BIOS.TXT) to NVG a while >>ago (which I did mention at the time), which should allow you to do your >>basic reading and writing of the harddrive. >And amazingly it looks just like the code put out by my C compiler. >If you've not got my sources ask and you shall receive. It should, I did a bit of nosing around with the odd bit of tidying up here and there. > Take care the newer interfaces no not use the software to drive a hard reset. > the reset line is now tied to the Sam's reset line. > NEC drives do not like to have a hardware reset. > Some Seagate don't mind. > Some Conner only work after a soft reset. > Can any one give a set of rules for a reset that will work with ALL makes of drive. What was wrong with the old method? This allowed a hardware reset to be given by the software, by attaching the drive reset line to the SAM reset line is narrowing your flexibility options rather drastically I would say. Stefan From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 10:52:57 1996 Message-Id: <199610141040.LAA08845@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:45:32 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1085 Lines: 28 ---------- > Van: Simon Cooke > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: Let's clear the air then. > Datum: Monday, October 14, 1996 9:56 AM > > At 10:51 14/10/96 +0100, you wrote: > Rob... are you and Stefan coming over to the Gloucester show this year? > > Simon > Robert here, I am not sure about Stefan, but I won't come this time. First there is Time: According to plan, we would be upgrading our systems and software at the end of this month, even a day off would be a problem. But the new release of the program 'S84' has been delayed, so that problem has been cleared. But then there is money, I want to go to the 'Shinnenkai' Anime Convention in january, so I need money for that too, and my other Coupe (the car) has acted a bit like a money-pit this summer cause its battery, dynamo, starter engine and radiator have been replaced all within a two month time-span. Anyway I will be there next april (I think?). Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Red leader here: watch out we are running out of diskspace real soon! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 11:00:45 1996 Message-Id: <9610140941.AA2153@worldcom-37.worldcom.com> To: sam-users From: Stefan Drissen Date: 14 Oct 96 11:21:18 Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2158 Lines: 49 ********************************************************************************************************* This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************************************************************* To: sam-users @ nvg.unit.no @ internet cc: (bcc: Stefan Drissen/ACC/Breda/C&L/NL) From: Briansam @ bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) @ Internet @ WORLDCOM @ C&L INT EXTERNAL @ C&L INT Date: 14/10/96 06:20:43 CDT Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe >I cannot see where the problem lies with getting at Sam discs. I >can copy them fine on my HD drive in my PC with Teledisk. I can >read the directory with both DISCIPLE.EXE and the Z80 Emulator. >I can load code from them if converted with SAMTOD and can load >Snaps. I can write Disciple files to them with Z80. >Ib short, it must be some hardware difference in SAmboss's PC >that is the problem. Woah! This is my PC that was causing the problem with SimCoupe (along with Arne's). As far as I can tell Geoff Winkless's SAM disc reader/copier works fine (except for the bug when writing to a SAM disc - but that's another story), it will read all my discs without too much hassle. SimCoupe is being run on this very same PC - but will NOT read ALL discs, which in my view means that it is not a hardware problem but an OS problem. Maybe Geoff could shed some light on the subject? Stefan From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 11:05:48 1996 Message-Id: <9610140953.AA2219@worldcom-37.worldcom.com> To: sam-users From: Stefan Drissen Date: 14 Oct 96 11:46:05 Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1360 Lines: 31 ********************************************************************************************************* This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************************************************************* > Rob... are you and Stefan coming over to the Gloucester show this year? > Simon I should be in Gloucester this year (although I still need to get myself a ticket to London), unfortunately Robert won't. So it will be a pretty lonely journey.... at least I won't be heading back on the same day like I did the first time (oooh, how long ago was that?). From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 11:11:35 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961014100541.002e4350@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:05:41 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1043 Lines: 24 At 11:21 14/10/96, you wrote: >Woah! This is my PC that was causing the problem with SimCoupe (along with >Arne's). As far as I can tell Geoff Winkless's SAM disc reader/copier works >fine (except for the bug when writing to a SAM disc - but that's another >story), it will read all my discs without too much hassle. SimCoupe is being >run on this very same PC - but will NOT read ALL discs, which in my view means >that it is not a hardware problem but an OS problem. > >Maybe Geoff could shed some light on the subject? I don't think that Geoff is around at the moment on the Internet, but as SAMTOMS was based on my DIRS code (the disk read/write anyway), I should be able to answer this. Except I can't. All it does is use a low-level floppy controller call in the BIOS... so unless there's something in the Linux kernel to only allow 9 sectors per track (which doesn't happen on my machine) for the call Allan's using... I feel it's something to do with Linux's auto floppy controller detect code, but I can't be sure. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 11:21:08 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:15:04 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Paveley To: Sam Users Mailing List Subject: Disks wirh Simcoupe (EGGBuM) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 908 Lines: 21 Hi, Just to say I too have been having these problems with reading disks. So far tried formatting disks with MasterDOS with a variety of skews, but that didn't seem to help. The one thing I noticed though, was that if I tried to Format a disk from simcoupe, it just hung on me. Is Format supposed to work? What about disks produced using XCoupe? or did that not either. BTW if anyone has a Simcoupe readable disk containing EGGBuM they could teledisk to me, I would be very grateful, I've just signed up someone for a PC conversion, and I'd like them to have a Sam Version so that they can keep it as faithful as possible to the real thing. ;) Tim ....@/ .........................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - http://dplinux.sund.ac.uk/~unc/ Staff of the Monochrome BBS - http://www.mono.org/ Owner of a Sam Coupe - http://www.mono.org/~unc/Coupe/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 11:38:22 1996 Message-Id: <3262881E.7F96@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:36:14 -0700 From: MR P R WALKER Organization: Computing Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe References: <199610120740.HAA23152@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 368 Lines: 10 Samsboss wrote: > No I'm not swaring. The problem is different BIOSs. Some will not allow > reading of the 10th sector in 720K mode. I know, I've been trying to Try altering your code to read the first 9 in a row, then the tenth one seperately. Worked for Cookies reader, which had the same problem on my computer (luckily he'd given the source code out). Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 12:02:54 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:59:05 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <250E85671CC@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 605 Lines: 13 Johnna here, Just a thought - how about informing the list of what times each individual can usually be found at? For example, if one person was planning to be availble from 7pm to 9pm then the users who wish to contact him/her (if indeed there are any hers around) could mail then and get almost instantaneous response. It's just a thought that I had. And also, if we organised at what times the proposed newsgroup would be running, those who wished to join up could do. It's just a case of working out at what time the computers are used most. And we can only find that out by asking. Cheers. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 12:10:51 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: SAM C To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:09:05 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <3262881E.7F96@csv.warwick.ac.uk> from "MR P R WALKER" at Oct 14, 96 11:36:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 419 Lines: 12 I've got to learn C for one of my courses... and, although there's plenty of x-terminals around, I'd much rather work at home on my SAM. I was just wondering though, how good SAM C is - I know it's not a full implementation, and that doesn't bother me too much, but what do other users think of it? Will it just be a distraction to learning C? Any ideas how much it costs? ANy thoughts would be appreciated... -ANdy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 12:21:46 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:06:49 GMT Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <103898D0E7E@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 951 Lines: 22 > Johnna here, > > Just a thought - how about informing the list of what times each > individual can usually be found at? For example, if one person was > planning to be availble from 7pm to 9pm then the users who wish to > contact him/her (if indeed there are any hers around) could mail then > and get almost instantaneous response. It's just a thought that I > had. And also, if we organised at what times the proposed newsgroup > would be running, those who wished to join up could do. It's just a > case of working out at what time the computers are used most. And we > can only find that out by asking. > > Cheers. If we are going to find out what times each of us are on a computer, to get an almost instant reply to e-mail, wouldn't it be a better idea to start the #SamCoupe channel I proposed in an earlier mail? Then we really would have instant replies, and using IRC is even simpler than sending an e-mail... Gavin Smith From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 12:22:03 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961014111416.002e663c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:14:16 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 819 Lines: 17 At 11:59 14/10/96 GMT+0, you wrote: >Just a thought - how about informing the list of what times each >individual can usually be found at? For example, if one person was >planning to be availble from 7pm to 9pm then the users who wish to >contact him/her (if indeed there are any hers around) could mail then >and get almost instantaneous response. It's just a thought that I >had. And also, if we organised at what times the proposed newsgroup >would be running, those who wished to join up could do. It's just a >case of working out at what time the computers are used most. And we >can only find that out by asking. 8:30 am to 4:30pm is good for me, with lunch around 12:00 for 45 mins or so... But then, I'm happy with the list the way it is... then again, it *has* been active recently hasn't it? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 12:22:10 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:11:19 GMT Subject: Re: SAM C Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <1039CA1730D@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 993 Lines: 24 > I've got to learn C for one of my courses... and, > although there's plenty of x-terminals around, I'd > much rather work at home on my SAM. I was just wondering > though, how good SAM C is - I know it's not a full > implementation, and that doesn't bother me too much, > but what do other users think of it? Will it just be a > distraction to learning C? Any ideas how much it costs? > > ANy thoughts would be appreciated... > > -ANdy I know very little about C, but I do know that SAM C cannot do floating points, making it a little useless for any serious programming. The other differences are a little annoying, but once you get in the way of them, aren't too much of a distraction. However, it is sadly unlikely that you could do your C programming on your Sam, and then stick it straight into any computer, compile it and hope it will run first time... I still bought it knowing the above, with the intention of converting some of my PC C programs to SAM C. Gavin Smith From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 12:38:08 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:33:48 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Samsboss Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 296 Lines: 12 Proposal: alt.identity.samsboss.whogivesashit.d We should stop pandering to his inflated ego and ignore any more bollocks postings from him until he grows up a bit. Old Fart. P.S. I had 90-odd messages in my inbox this morning - don't you people have something *else* to do on a weekend :)) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 12:53:33 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:51:40 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: SAM C - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1433 Lines: 34 > I've got to learn C for one of my courses... and, although there's plenty of x-terminals around, > I'd much ratherwork at home on my SAM. I was just wondering though, how good SAM C is - I > know it's not a full implementation, andthat doesn't bother me too much, but what do other > users think of it? Will it just be a distraction to learning C?Any ideas how much it costs? > > ANy thoughts would be appreciated... Well, I've been playing around with Sam C for a while now so here's my thoughts on the subject. Sam C is 'Small C' and therefore doesn't have floats, doubles or longs - int -32768 to 32768 and unsigned ints 65535 only! There are no disc handling functions that talk to files directly (unless I've missed something) and the editor is rather 'fun' to use at the best of times. But that sounds all to negative, for what it is Sam C is good stuff, a touch tricky to debug code if you don't know much about MC (like me) but I would say that to use Sam C you have to get into the habits of coding under Unix as opposed to something like Borland C. I've managed to do a few things in Sam C and I'm currently having a bash at a scrolly but I'm using the horrid SCROLL command and it runs like a dog and I have *no* idea how to speed it up. Sam C shouldn't be too much of a distraction - just don't let your coursework suffer :)) As for cost, UKP19.99 from Fred Publishing, 40 Roundyhill, Monifieth, Dundee Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 13:16:38 1996 Message-Id: <9610141209.AA3214@worldcom-37.worldcom.com> To: sam-users From: Stefan Drissen Date: 14 Oct 96 14:03:14 Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1604 Lines: 36 ********************************************************************************************************* This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************************************************************* > 8:30 am to 4:30pm is good for me, with lunch around 12:00 for 45 mins or > so... But then, I'm happy with the list the way it is... then again, it > *has* been active recently hasn't it? > > Simon I'm happy with the way the list is too. What is the advantage of starting up a newsgroup? By using a mailing list you enable more users to join in, not everybody has full internet access! BTW sorry about the massive bolt on at the top, unfortunately this is not something I can turn off, it is bolted onto all external emails - one of the disadvantages of working for an auditing firm... Stefan From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 13:29:15 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:28:49 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9610141228.AA16710@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 321 Lines: 8 > BTW sorry about the massive bolt on at the top, unfortunately this is not > something I can turn off, it is bolted onto all external emails - one of the > disadvantages of working for an auditing firm... You you then please ask the people in charge to keep the line lenght to the 70 characters 'standard'? -Frode From imc Mon Oct 14 13:30:29 1996 Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:30:29 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <18668@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Oct 14, 96 06:27:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 174 Lines: 6 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:27:13 GMT, Brian Gaff Sam Dept. said: > But I thought Samboss WAS an AI program! Artificial intelligence? Artificial stupidity, more like! :-) imc From imc Mon Oct 14 13:33:26 1996 Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:33:26 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <9610141209.AA3214@worldcom-37.worldcom.com> from "Stefan Drissen" at Oct 14, 96 02:03:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1599 Lines: 33 On 14 Oct 96 14:03:14, Stefan Drissen said: > ********************************************************************************************************* > This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and > is not intended to be > relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its > contents. Accordingly, > Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability > (including in negligence) for the > consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such > information prior to the receipt > by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. > > If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately > by telephone. Please > also destroy and delete the message from your computer. > > Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, > distribution and/or > publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. > ********************************************************************************************************* > BTW sorry about the massive bolt on at the top, unfortunately this is not > something I can turn off, it is bolted onto all external emails - one of the > disadvantages of working for an auditing firm... Good grief, and we complain at people for having over 4 lines in their signature! How about getting a home internet account that doesn't have one of these monsters at the top of each message? Could you at least get them to format it properly? The above mess is hardly a good advert for their company. imc From imc Mon Oct 14 13:51:46 1996 Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:51:46 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610131615.RAA01695@mail.enterprise.net> from "Dave Whitmore" at Oct 13, 96 04:56:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 508 Lines: 13 On 13 Oct 1996 16:56:19, Dave Whitmore said: > AMG> How many people do you need to start up a newsgroup? If the oric lot > Probably a lot less than subscribe to here. Depends what kind of newsgroup. A 'comp' newsgroup needs at a minimum 100 voters, which I daresay is more than there are here. On the other hand, I don't think an 'alt' newsgroup is particularly appropriate, and I don't recall seeing any 'uk' computer newsgroups. imc PS. Dave, could you possibly buy an Enter key for your keyboard? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 13:52:16 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:49:38 +0100 (BST) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@isidore.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: nvg Sam archive In-Reply-To: <961011182006_541357018@emout16.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1124 Lines: 24 On Fri, 11 Oct 1996 FormatPub@aol.com wrote: > >I'm trying to decide whether to upload Xenozoids - The first, and only, game > >I > >actually written and completed.. It was written in BASIC and it could be > >quite, erm.. how do I put it... embarrasing..... > > Go ahead, at least you finished something - which is more than can be said > for many.... > And what if it is written in Basic, there has been many a playable game > written in Basic before. Well, actually.. Ermm.. i loaded it up on my sam over the weekend and.. erm... it didn't work... The screen was all black. I think it was because I programmed it before I upgraded the memory and didn't check where all the screens would be on the 512K.. Gotta fix the bug.. -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From imc Mon Oct 14 13:54:31 1996 Subject: Re: SAM C - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:54:31 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Doore" at Oct 14, 96 12:51:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 454 Lines: 10 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:51:40 +0100, Dan Doore said: > As for cost, UKP19.99 from Fred Publishing, 40 Roundyhill, Monifieth, Dundee Just out of interest... if you have ProDos (or any CP/M emulator), couldn't you get a free copy of small C? imc (who has heard lots of bad things about Sam C, such as the fact that it requires lots more spaces in the source file than real C, it doesn't do single-letter global variables, and it has hardly any stdio). From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 14:06:55 1996 Message-Id: <3262A862.1816@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:53:54 -0700 From: MR P R WALKER Organization: Computing Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang References: <961013074919_209398797@emout03.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 551 Lines: 15 FormatPub@aol.com wrote: > How about writing an AI program that will vet incoming mail so crap can > filtered out? Argh!! Do you /have/ to quote so much?! That goes for most of the rest of you as well, actually... Depends what you mean by crap. There's a program around for JAM bases (used by Fidonet et al) which will remove specified posters, messages containing keywords, etc. which works quite well. (Even if I did write it myself.) However, as I don't have a clue how the mail for internet is stored, I can't really do a lot... anyone? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 14:07:09 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:37:55 +0100 From: D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) Message-Id: <199610141237.NAA01133@fergus.cs.cf.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Don't hold your breath Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: YUO/bO9ZrONsA4/BLScE/A== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 449 Lines: 19 Well, I thought I might be able to continue to program on the SAM by using Xcoupe. Ahahaha... it appears that for some really obscure reason the requisite X11 header files are absent, full stop. Unless some kind bod would like to compile me a copy for a SUN SPARC 5, I believe my SAM programming days are almost at a close . This in mind, would the real Samboss please step forward? [wait] [nothing] (Oh well, it was worth a try) :) DMZ === From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 14:07:13 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:00:35 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9610141300.AA16903@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1168 Lines: 22 > Just a thought - how about informing the list of what times each > individual can usually be found at? For example, if one person was > planning to be availble from 7pm to 9pm then the users who wish to > contact him/her (if indeed there are any hers around) could mail then > and get almost instantaneous response. It's just a thought that I > had. And also, if we organised at what times the proposed newsgroup > would be running, those who wished to join up could do. It's just a > case of working out at what time the computers are used most. And we > can only find that out by asking. Huh? So to top the traffic on this list each and every one of us sends a notice every day telling when he is avaialbe? Firstly, an enormous overhead is involved with this. Secondly, it is not in the spirit of e-mail. The nice thing with e-mail is that it is as flexible as snail mail with almost the speed of phone. The receivers is free to answer whenever he wants. Time has got nothing to do with either e-mail, mailinglists or newsgroups. Let people be available when they want and if you want answers from them wait until they want to give it to you. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 14:12:58 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:08:20 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9610141308.AA16939@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Don't hold your breath X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 423 Lines: 13 > Well, I thought I might be able to continue to program on > the SAM by using Xcoupe. > > Ahahaha... it appears that for some really obscure > reason the requisite X11 header files are absent, full stop. > Unless some kind bod would like to compile me a copy for a > SUN SPARC 5, I believe my SAM programming days are almost > at a close . This in mind, would the real Samboss please > step forward? What OS? -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 14:29:38 1996 Message-Id: <9610141311.AA4072@worldcom-37.worldcom.com> To: sam-users From: Stefan Drissen Date: 14 Oct 96 15:00:24 Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1714 Lines: 37 ********************************************************************************************************* This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************************************************************* >> BTW sorry about the massive bolt on at the top, unfortunately this is not >> something I can turn off, it is bolted onto all external emails - one of the >> disadvantages of working for an auditing firm... > You you then please ask the people in charge to keep the line > lenght to the 70 characters 'standard'? > >-Frode Sorry, but Lotus Notes is one of those lovely windows proggies - meaning that truetype fonts are nicely formatted. Since the bulk use of the mail system is internal email (everyone on Notes) limiting messages to 70 chars is somewhat barbaric. It would be nice if I could specify an external message..... how about this? I reformat all the text to use a fixed size font. Stefan From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 14:29:52 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:14:09 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9610141314.AA16970@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 625 Lines: 16 > > On 13 Oct 1996 16:56:19, Dave Whitmore said: > > AMG> How many people do you need to start up a newsgroup? If the oric lot > > > Probably a lot less than subscribe to here. > > Depends what kind of newsgroup. A 'comp' newsgroup needs at a minimum > 100 voters, which I daresay is more than there are here. On the other hand, > I don't think an 'alt' newsgroup is particularly appropriate, and I don't > recall seeing any 'uk' computer newsgroups. 100 more YES votes and at least 2/3 of the total votes to be YES. I don't think that is realistic. And the 'uk' hiearchy won't be much good, i'm affraid... -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 14:30:13 1996 From: sh5655@bristol.ac.uk (SL. Harding) Message-Id: <199610141317.OAA09866@irix.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:17:13 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <325DA464.71D29AE@rmnet.it> from "A.D.R." at Oct 11, 96 02:35:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1860 Lines: 42 > > > *sh5655bris.ac.uk -- SLHarding? I surpose that I had better mention that my first name is stephen (the fact that there are a million people who sign themselves off as steve has forced me to sign myself as a randomly selected contraction of 'Mr. Numbly Belt Shaver' on the rare occasions that I talk to the list!?) > > Now the only question I have is why are all these people so quiet? > Maybe because traffic is already high on this list?! :-) I think the real reason why people like me don't talk much is because all of us on this list think in a faily similar way! (We all chose to buy Sams for example!) so what ever my oppinion the chances are that someone else has already sent a message similar to one I would write (although probably worded better!). There is nothing wrong with this system. The only thing I see wrong with this list is the conversations which have certainly gone down hill over the year I have been here, it's the lack of new ideas and the way in which we constantly go over the same ground. A perfect example of this occured with my last posting to the list, I suggested the construction of a brand new (correct me if I am wrong) way of expanding SAM's horizons -A Sam-compiler which could compile Sam code into executable PC code so we could sell autorunning SAM games to the general PC owning public. The only responses That were made to the list about this suggestion were the same old dreary comments about how Emulators (will/will not) destroy the Sam, When I was suggestion something quite different with great potential. This message has been far too negative so I will point you in the direction of my newly finished (and started) web pages, If you are interested in a Brand NEW SAM GAME thats almost ready for release then you should have a look! it's at: http://irix.bris.ac.uk/~sh5655 C9 Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 14:42:29 1996 Message-Id: <9610141322.AA3941@worldcom-57.worldcom.com> To: "Ian.Collier" Cc: sam-users From: Stefan Drissen Date: 14 Oct 96 15:13:34 Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2176 Lines: 52 ********************************************************************************************************* This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************************************************************* >> BTW sorry about the massive bolt on at the top, unfortunately this is not >> something I can turn off, it is bolted onto all external emails - one of the >> disadvantages of working for an auditing firm... >Good grief, and we complain at people for having over 4 lines in their >signature! How about getting a home internet account that doesn't have >one of these monsters at the top of each message? Hmm, two problems with getting a home account: 1. home accounts are NOT free; 2. I don't have a PC on which to install a home account - it is strictly forbidden to hook these laptops onto an internet provider due to confidential information being stored on the harddrives. >Could you at least get them to format it properly? The above mess is >hardly a good advert for their company. Unfortunately I can NOT get them to format the bolt on properly - if all goes well the main message bit should be rolling out properly now. As to the mess hardly being a good advert for their company - take that up with the US head office. I presume that they expect that most clients have more advance mail systems than the prehistoric 80 char mailers. Stefan imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 14:50:10 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:30:27 GMT Subject: SamFighter Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <105EE1E4142@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 352 Lines: 6 I've just had a look at your Sam Fighter page Steven and I must say that I'm impressed with the graphics mainly because they (apparently) move fast and the screen scrolls. I'm sure it will cause a lot of talk and I look forward to seeing how the characters move...by the way, if u need any playtesters just gimme a shout...good luck with the game From imc Mon Oct 14 17:14:24 1996 Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:14:24 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <3262A862.1816@csv.warwick.ac.uk> from "MR P R WALKER" at Oct 14, 96 01:53:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 646 Lines: 16 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:53:54 -0700, MR P R WALKER said: > Depends what you mean by crap. There's a program around for JAM bases > (used by Fidonet et al) which will remove specified posters, > messages containing keywords, etc. which works quite well. (Even if I did > write it myself.) We are talking about an AI program, not a keyword filter. Of course you are correct that it depends what he means by "crap". > However, as I don't have a clue how the mail for internet is stored, I > can't really do a lot... anyone? That is unimportant. If you write the AI program I'm sure we wouldn't have any difficulty in adapting it. :-) imc From imc Mon Oct 14 17:22:25 1996 Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:22:25 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <9610141322.AA3941@worldcom-57.worldcom.com> from "Stefan Drissen" at Oct 14, 96 03:13:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1131 Lines: 27 On 14 Oct 96 15:13:34, Stefan Drissen said: > I presume that they expect that most clients have more advance mail > systems than the prehistoric 80 char mailers. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ BZZT. Why should an 80 char window be considered prehistoric? As it happens I can have my mailing window any size I want, but 80 columns is good for several reasons. - It means I don't send any mail out that is over 80 columns wide, which might upset people. :-) - The mail window doesn't have to fill the whole screen and I can therefore have other stuff up at the same time. - Lines with many characters on them are more difficult to read. The authors of LaTeX seem to believe that 60-70 characters on a line is sufficient for a typeset document, though personally I think this leaves too much whitespace on the page. - I could use a larger font and still fit the window on the screen. - The Sam can display 80-column files but not 90-column ones. :-) So there. Anyway, I believe it is *your* "prehistoric 80 char mailer" that is chopping the text up and making it such a mess. imc From imc Mon Oct 14 17:23:56 1996 Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:23:56 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <9610141314.AA16970@asmal.edh-net> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Oct 14, 96 02:14:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 684 Lines: 17 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:14:09 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: i > Depends what kind of newsgroup. A 'comp' newsgroup needs at a minimum i > 100 voters, which I daresay is more than there are here. On the other hand, i > I don't think an 'alt' newsgroup is particularly appropriate, and I don't i > recall seeing any 'uk' computer newsgroups. > 100 more YES votes and at least 2/3 of the total votes to be YES. I don't Which agrees with what I said. :-) [in the minimum case there will be zero no votes and 100 yes votes]. > think that is realistic. And the 'uk' hiearchy won't be much good, i'm > affraid... Don't you get uk newsgroups over there? Deja news certainly does. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 17:36:07 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:25:40 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 282 Lines: 13 > > However, as I don't have a clue how the mail for internet > > is stored, I can't really do a lot... anyone? > > That is unimportant. If you write the AI program I'm sure we > wouldn't have any difficulty in adapting it. :-) If it's AI, wouldn't it just *know*? :) Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 18:41:50 1996 Posted-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 19:40:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <32627AC1.259C@pi.net> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 19:39:13 +0200 From: Stefan Drissen X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PI-32 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Mailer quibbles References: <9610141622.AA00867@booth9.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3065 Lines: 73 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > BZZT. > > Why should an 80 char window be considered prehistoric? *YAWN* this discussion has been held before. It is not anybody's mailer that I'm criticising - it's the email standard itself, it is too simple. Why should the width of a message matter? Why can't you just type your text in like you do on a wordprocessor and let the lines format themselves on the receiver's machine? > As it happens I can have my mailing window any size I want, but 80 columns > is good for several reasons. 80 columns is good for nothing - the fact that a message should be dictated by columnwidth is ridiculous in this day and age. A message should be just that, a message - the width is up to the reader. > - It means I don't send any mail out that is over 80 columns wide, which > might upset people. :-) Time to upgrade I should say. Otherwise we always still have good old snail mail - no worries with column width there. Unfortunately snail mail will not fit itself to the format that the reader wants to use (without using scissors and a lot of effort). > - The mail window doesn't have to fill the whole screen and I can therefore > have other stuff up at the same time. See above. > - Lines with many characters on them are more difficult to read. The authors > of LaTeX seem to believe that 60-70 characters on a line is sufficient > for a typeset document, though personally I think this leaves too much > whitespace on the page. Totally irrelevant. Let the reader decide what he thinks is a sufficient width. As to referring to fixed width messages as typeset documents.... > - I could use a larger font and still fit the window on the screen. So? Once again, see above. > - The Sam can display 80-column files but not 90-column ones. :-) Is anyone using their SAM to read these messages? Hands up everybody, come on, don't be shy! I can understand that if these messages were to be distributed on disc for SAM users without internet access then okay - but wouldn't a slightly intelligent print routine fix everything anyway? > So there. Anyway, I believe it is *your* "prehistoric 80 char mailer" > that is chopping the text up and making it such a mess. My prehistoric mailer is NOT 80 chars - it can be whatever width, have lots of fonts with different sizes and colours, include pictures within the message etc etc etc - just like a modern mailer should! > imc -- Stefan Drissen _____ ___ _ ___ ______ ___ ____ / _// \| | /\ | \ | _/ | /\ | \ _/ aka \_ \| || |__ / \| / | _|| |__ / \| / _| of ENTROPY /____/\___/\____\____\_|_\ |_| \____\____\_|_\___\ / \ / Email: drissen@pi.net http://www.pi.net/~drissen \ / Zevende Herven 6,5232 JZ 's-HERTOGENBOSCH,The Netherlands \ / telephone: +31-73-6414969 \ --------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 19:13:18 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 19:09:38 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@indigo.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang In-Reply-To: <961013151104_542281986@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 7209 Lines: 162 On Sun, 13 Oct 1996 FormatPub@aol.com wrote: > > If you read FORMAT then I've told readers several times. > Actually I don't, so perhaps you would be good enough to giva a definitive answer? > >For a long time I have tried to be totally impartial, but sometimes things > >are said which cannot be compatible with what you're saying. So, just for > >the record here are some specific questions: > > > >Are you involved in the management or directorship of West Coast > >Computers? > > No. Fair enough. > > >If not: who is, > > Why would you want to know? > I notice you don't like Samsboss becuase he hides under a cloak of anonymity (as it were) Is this not even worse, to be unaware of who really is running things up there? Alan Miles and Bruce Gordon were always absolutely accessible to their customers; whoever runs WCC is not. Is this your idea of a straight answer to a straight question? Because that's what you promised. > >and why are you keeping such a watchful eye > >over their ROM copyright agreements? > > Something came up on this mailing list - which I had access to while they did > not - so I just put up the facts, plain and simple. But if you don't run things, why do you assume that it is YOUR job to do something about it? If WCC have any interest in the Sam whatsoever perhaps they should pay a little more attention to the views of their customers, ie us. > > >What significant steps have been > >taken by this company to promote Sam? > > Define 'promote SAM'. > Since SAMCO went down WCC have kept SAM production going, kept items like > interfaces going. Kept sales ticking over so that at least there are SAMs to > buy is people want them. Or would you have preferred to have them spend, > spend, spend (on advertising) and gone bust in 12 months? That doesn't necessarily follow. > Be grateful that SAM is still alive, despite the hard efforts of some to > undermine confidence in our favourite machine. Now who would that be? The sort of person who admits to some failing of the machine? No, because these are exactly the sort of people who are trying to fix or improve those areas. However, their efforts have met with very limited support from your magazine. If you are dedicated to producing more hardware (as you said in another reply somewhere) I put it to you that this is a very strange way of going about it. > > > >Given that Frank Broughton owns Revelation, and this is not related to > >Format, why does Format stock Revelation's products at the Gloucester > >shows? > > So does FRED. > Wrong, not at the stands in Gloucester. > But the real answer is, because we do the mail-order dispatch for Revelation > (have done from day one in fact). It is a concept called Primary > Distribution. Used widely in the software industry by many of the big > companies. Even Sinclair used the method with most of his computer products. > > As Frank has a full time job which means he is away from home (in Dawlish, > Devon, if you want to be nosy) he uses us to do all the real work on a > percentage basis - no work=no money. But no sales also equals no expenses > for Revelation (other than the cost of the adverts). We used to provide the > same service for S.D.Software when Nev was, for work related reasons, unable > to handle things himself. I never asked that. Still, it's nice to know :) > >Did or did not the liquidator of SamCo receive money from you for the > >rights to software? > > The agreement with the liquidator is confidential and I am not at liberty to > go into details. > Somehow I never expected an answer to that one. I'm only asking for one word, and I put it to you that the word you're looking for is no. > >Have royalties been paid to the programmer of, say, Batz 'n Ballz since > >Frank Broughton took over? > How should I know? Well, why don't you ask him then. See above. > >Do you dispute the opinion that Persona has been granted copyright from > >the authors of several old-Revelation titles, to the extent that the > >programmer has added new scrolling messages which say Persona as opposed > >to Revelation? > > Who or what is Persona? And what old Revelation titles are you talking about. You know very well that Persona Marketing and Development is the company, run by Malcolm MacKenzie, which took over the operations and licenses of Phoenix Software Systems which David Ledbury decided to sell out. You were involved in some negotiations at that time. When the deal with Malcolm had been arranged, you asked him on the phone "So who the hell are you then?' You know exactly what has gone on, and you know exactly what I'm talking about. Don't insult me by pretending otherwise. Games on Persona's price list include Manic Miner, Batz and Balls, The Sound Machine, Splat, the educational games such as Highway Code, and all the Enigma Variations games. Malcolm maintains that in selling these Revelation is acting illegally. I understand that negotiations are in progress with the programmers of sevaral other old games for which Revelation's contract has expired. Also, for infomation, Persona has a contract with Tim Humpries to sell his Midi Sequencer - just for reference in case anybody asks you where to get it, it is not unavailable. In fact, as the editor of a major Sam magazine, people will assume you are in the best position to answer questions. This is absolutely fine, provided you make some attempt to keep in touch with current events, such as development of new hardware by independant designers for example, and of course the release of new software by independant companies. Perhaps you should write to Malcolm and ask him for a price list. In any case, I note you have not disputed the suggestion.... > Look at it this way - if you work for/with a company, is it write to air all > of their business secrets in public? I think not. Although I probably know > more that anyone, other than Alan Miles and Bruce Gordon, I will have to save > lots for my memoirs. There is a difference between airing all your business secrets, and being honest about where you actually stand in the Sam world. Nobody seems entirely convinced that Revelation is totally seperate from Format or from West Coast Computers. I will be quite happy to accept your explanations, if you are prepared to give them to me. I have already stressed that I am speaking from third-hand knowledge, but on the basis of the answers you have given so far I find it easier to accept their version of events rather than your own. The two are not compatible. They cannot both be right. Even compromise could be tricky. If you can give me any reason why the outside observer may have misinterpreted your innocent actions, then I'd like to hear it, and I may be convinced by it. If you continue to avoid all difficult questions, a lack of infomation cannot tell me anything. I don't wan't trouble, if I could be convinced that everybody was playing fair then I'd be very happy. Unfortunately the evidence I have heard so far suggests that certain people have been somewhat underhand. I don't ask this because I want to embarrass you, I just want to hear your side of the story. Please tell me what it is. Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 19:48:41 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:47:49 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961014144749_126452800@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1712 Lines: 59 In a message dated 14/10/96 06:09:42, you write: >In message <961013102125_125490654@emout19.mail.aol.com> FormatPub@aol.com >writes: >> From: Simon Cooke > In a message dated 13/10/96 14:08:26,Simon Cooke wrote, talking about >simms? >> > >> >It could be done using the existing GAL chip as found in the 1Mb >> >interface, as well as possibly a little extra fiddling around (I'm not >> >too sure how the SIMMs decide which address they occupy for which SIMMs >> >socket...), but in theory it's not a problem - as long as you have >> >Bruce's GAL chip. Other than that, it involves coming up with another GAL >> >based design to create the requisite RAS and CAS signals for the DRAMs on >> >the SIMMs chip. >> > >> >> GAL programming algorwatsit lost by Bruce when his PC went down last year. >> Blue Alpha should have had a copy on theirs - but we all know the problems >> with Blue Alpha. >> > >No backups? I guess that reverse engineering is not possible? No, there were no backups. At least none that Bruce will own up to. And the GAL chips had a blowable fuse link that prevents them from being read. Still, hints from a couple of people are that the logic should not be beyond someone with an idea of how the thing should be working. > > >> So. Back to Square -1. >> >> Bits=not problem >> Time=big problem >> Money=impossible problem >> >> Bob. >> >> ps. was on line when this meessage arrived form Simon and also a message >fro >> Samsboss. So that lets Cooke out of the frame. Or is even guessing playing >> right into the idiots hands? >> >> >> >Aw, its all in the best possible taste, as it were! :-) > >Brian > > >-- >Brian Gaff Sam Dept. > > Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 19:49:09 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:47:59 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961014144759_126452943@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SIMM Memory Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1315 Lines: 30 In a message dated 14/10/96 08:27:39, you write: >*grins* Well... the money's not impossible... I'd do it for free if I could >cover development costs... but I think Mr Gale may be slightly better at >hardware design than myself. > >Simon As I said, parts are not a problem, as my repair guy has many different things in stock and a good collection of electronics catalogues for those bits he doesn't carry. I would be prepared to dig deep into my pocket and fund a few bits if I thought the project was workable. My idea, on which I would love to hear comments, would be for an interface (external I would think) that would hold 1 to 4 off 30 pin SIMMs. This would give up to 4Mb of RAM addressable in the same way as the 1Mb units. Am I right is saying that the largest 30 pin SIMMs are 4Mb? Because if that is the case then we could go up to 16Mb with the addition of an extra address port to switch the banks. The big expence would be the board. A proper double sided one, with through plating ect, would cost about 12 to 15 pounds each on a batch of 50 plus a fee for setting up the board if we could not give them a proper CAD file to work from. 30 pin SIMM memory will still be with us for several years because there are millions of Mbytes of it out there just waiting to be recycled onto SAM. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 21:11:46 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:09:57 -0400 From: Neville Young <106166.1560@compuserve.com> Subject: SAM C To: sam users Message-Id: <199610141610_MC1-AD0-BF8E@compuserve.com> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 648 Lines: 21 >I've got to learn C for one of my courses... and, >although there's plenty of x-terminals around, I'd >much rather work at home on my SAM. I was just wondering >though, how good SAM C is - I know it's not a full >implementation, and that doesn't bother me too much, >but what do other users think of it? Will it just be a >distraction to learning C? Any ideas how much it costs? >ANy thoughts would be appreciated... >-ANdy Try the C & C++ users group load of downloads etc. Includes paper magazine, optional disks, access to library. Mostly PC and UNIX C stuff. write to the chairman: Francis Glassborow francis@robinton.demon.co.uk Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 21:12:00 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:10:07 -0400 From: Neville Young <106166.1560@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals To: sam users Message-Id: <199610141610_MC1-AD0-BF8F@compuserve.com> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 764 Lines: 19 >Johnna here, >Just a thought - how about informing the list of what times each >individual can usually be found at? For example, if one person was >planning to be availble from 7pm to 9pm then the users who wish to >contact him/her (if indeed there are any hers around) could mail then >and get almost instantaneous response. It's just a thought that I >had. And also, if we organised at what times the proposed newsgroup >would be running, those who wished to join up could do. It's just a >case of working out at what time the computers are used most. And we >can only find that out by asking. >Cheers. Dont know about any one else but I'm only online for about two mins. at about 19:30. And two mins more later if I have written any replies. Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 23:12:15 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:10:51 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <961014144759_126452943@emout08.mail.aol.com> from "FormatPub@aol.com" at Oct 14, 96 02:47:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 936 Lines: 22 > My idea, on which I would love to hear comments, would be for an interface > (external I would think) that would hold 1 to 4 off 30 pin SIMMs. This would > give up to 4Mb of RAM addressable in the same way as the 1Mb units. > > Am I right is saying that the largest 30 pin SIMMs are 4Mb? Because if that > is the case then we could go up to 16Mb with the addition of an extra address > port to switch the banks. I believe that 30 pin SIMMs are available in both 1Meg and 4Meg versions. However, it would be easier to restrict the interface to using just one sort - and I would suggest the 1 Meg sort. Let's face it - the main use of the 1 Meg [at the moment] is for a soft disk drive, for which you only need one meg. 16 Mb is just a bit excessive! (OK - draw a parallel with the early computer manufacturers saying no-one will ever need more than 64K!!!) I have seen *new* 1Meg 30-pin SIMMs going for just 9 pounds. Wow. -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 23:15:46 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:14:53 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <961014144749_126452800@emout17.mail.aol.com> from "FormatPub@aol.com" at Oct 14, 96 02:47:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 356 Lines: 9 > No, there were no backups. At least none that Bruce will own up to. And the > GAL chips had a blowable fuse link that prevents them from being read. Well, I believe this Bath company I mentioned reckon they can reverse-engineer devices which have had their code-protect fuses blown. If not, it wouldn't be all that hard to devise a replacement. -ANdy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 23:24:29 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:23:13 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "A.S. Collier" at Oct 14, 96 07:09:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1182 Lines: 27 I don't want to get too caught up in this who-runs-what discussion, but what I would say is: who cares? OK, maybe some of you do, but let's face facts - when MGT went bust, SAMCo emerged, which - to all intents and purposes - was MGT under a different name. People confidence in the SAM was a little shaky, and then SAMCo went bust. Perhaps it was just as well that WCC was a bit mysterious - if anyone had idea that WCC was connected with those that were heavily involved in the SAM in the early, then they may well have been put off of trading with them. Maybe there is a fair bit of secrecy surrounding it all, but the point is that the SAM has survived. If WCC and FOrmat are practically the same, then so what? The days of the SAM's future being dodgy are well past - we are now in the Sinclair QL stage where there were still new machines available, but basically the machine is a cult computer - used by those who are really interested in the SAM. I've always assumed that WCC and Format are pretty much one of the same, and have wondered why (if that is the case) why they are cagey about telling us, but the point is - even if they are the same - I don't care! -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 23:50:00 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:48:45 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961014184844_543053161@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 514 Lines: 10 Have spoken to someone who delves deep into the inner secrets of the PC and he has come up with one further idea on the problem. His idea is that the gap between the end of the last sector on the track and the index pulse may be a little short on 10 sector discs. On some PCs the 'read multiple sectors' would get upset by this even if the software seems to cope with 10 sectors. Understand there is now a shareware prog on the PC that formats to 10 sectors per track - anyone heard of this - it may help. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 23:50:00 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:48:50 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961014184849_543053201@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 401 Lines: 14 In a message dated 14/10/96 11:24:42, you write: >8:30 am to 4:30pm is good for me, with lunch around 12:00 for 45 mins or >so... But then, I'm happy with the list the way it is... then again, it >*has* been active recently hasn't it? > >Simon Lunch!!! You have time for lunch? That is 45 mins that could be spent learning to type on two different SAM keyboards at once. No slacking now... Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 23:50:00 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:48:50 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961014184850_543053215@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAM C Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1287 Lines: 33 In a message dated 14/10/96 11:27:29, you write: >> I've got to learn C for one of my courses... and, >> although there's plenty of x-terminals around, I'd >> much rather work at home on my SAM. I was just wondering >> though, how good SAM C is - I know it's not a full >> implementation, and that doesn't bother me too much, >> but what do other users think of it? Will it just be a >> distraction to learning C? Any ideas how much it costs? >> >> ANy thoughts would be appreciated... >> >> -ANdy > >I know very little about C, but I do know that SAM C cannot do >floating points, making it a little useless for any serious >programming. The other differences are a little annoying, but once >you get in the way of them, aren't too much of a distraction. >However, it is sadly unlikely that you could do your C programming on >your Sam, and then stick it straight into any computer, compile it >and hope it will run first time... > >I still bought it knowing the above, with the intention of >converting some of my PC C programs to SAM C. > >Gavin Smith > > I think it is very unfair to say that you can't use SAM C for serious programming just because it doesn't have floats - I spent the first 10 years in programming and never used floating point arithmatic once. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 14 23:50:15 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:48:55 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961014184854_543053278@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 8065 Lines: 196 Ok readers, I've edited down large parts of this message because the bulk of the text is already in you hands so I don't want to overload your mailboxes. In a message dated 14/10/96 18:10:44, you wrote: >On Sun, 13 Oct 1996 FormatPub@aol.com wrote: >> >> If you read FORMAT then I've told readers several times. >> >Actually I don't, so perhaps you would be good enough to giva a definitive >answer? No, I've gone on record several times in FORMAT, if you want to read it buy copies. >> >If not: who is, >> >> Why would you want to know? >> >I notice you don't like Samsboss because he hides under a cloak of >anonymity (as it were) Is this not even worse, to be unaware of who really >is running things up there? Alan Miles and Bruce Gordon were always >absolutely accessible to their customers; whoever runs WCC is not. Is this >your idea of a straight answer to a straight question? Because that's what >you promised. Alan and Bruce had their way (a way that they sometimes regretted I have to say), West Coast have a different way. It may not be a straight answer, but it is a straight question - why would you want to know? Do you know who runs every company you deal with? No. I thought not. As far as West Coast is concerned, they allow Format Publications to handle their UK sales (and overseas mail-order). That arrangement was made because otherwise they were not prepared to continue SAM sales/production because of the high overheads of staff. > >But if you don't run things, why do you assume that it is YOUR job to do >something about it? If WCC have any interest in the Sam whatsoever perhaps >they should pay a little more attention to the views of their customers, >ie us. I did not say it was MY JOB, it was just that it came up and I answered. > >> Or would you have preferred to have them spend, >> spend, spend (on advertising) and gone bust in 12 months? > >That doesn't necessarily follow. I assure you it does. Look a Commodore for a start. > >> Be grateful that SAM is still alive, despite the hard efforts of some to >> undermine confidence in our favourite machine. > >If you are dedicated to producing >more hardware (as you said in another reply somewhere) I put it to you >that this is a very strange way of going about it. I came under criticism for releasing details of SAMCO products which never made it to the market. After SAMCO's demise I took that stand in FORMAT not to talk about products, unless from companies I considered were on a sound commercial basis, until someone could demonstrate the product to me and convince me that it would reach the streets at least in a reasonable period of time. Even so, there have been let downs. But you have to accept that the SAM world has been plagued with VAPOUR-WARE. Products which never really stood a chance of getting into production. Some time ago I took the word of a very honourable gentleman that a product would be available. I plugged it quite a bit. I still consider that person a friend and I still consider him to be honourable - but he has been badly let down by the designer of the product. He is struggling hard to get the interface to work, he has sunk a lot of his own money into it (and he is not a rich man) but the product is still far from ready. Now this relates to a very hard working guy, many in the SAM field could not aspire to his level of dedication. If he has disappointed people then how do you think people would have reacted if lots of other products were paraded in front of them - only to disappear in a puff of smoke? > >> > >> >Given that Frank Broughton owns Revelation, and this is not related to >> >Format, why does Format stock Revelation's products at the Gloucester >> >shows? >> >> So does FRED. >> >Wrong, not at the stands in Gloucester. Well they have at shows for at least the last 18 months. > > >> >Did or did not the liquidator of SamCo receive money from you for the >> >rights to software? >> >> The agreement with the liquidator is confidential and I am not at liberty >to go into details. >> >Somehow I never expected an answer to that one. I'm only asking for one >word, and I put it to you that the word you're looking for is no. The answer is as given. 'I cannot say' - not - 'I won't say'. You have heard of contracts? > >> >Have royalties been paid to the programmer of, say, Batz 'n Ballz since >> >Frank Broughton took over? >> How should I know? > >Well, why don't you ask him then. See above. It would not be any of my business, that is why. That is a confidential matter between the programmer and Revelation. > >You know very well that Persona Marketing and Development is the company, >run by Malcolm MacKenzie, which took over the operations and licenses of >Phoenix Software Systems which David Ledbury decided to sell out. You were >involved in some negotiations at that time. I was aware that Malcolm was trying to sort out the 'disaster zone' (and I use Malcolm's words there) created by David Ledbury in his many 'business' incarnations. And yes I did offer David a deal, one which to date he has not turned down. Persona was not a name I recognized when you used it, if you has said Melcolm Mackenzie it would have rung bigger bells. But come on, please live in the real world Andrew, David Ledbury had done more than any other person I can think of to bring the SAM world into disrepute and I doubt that anyone could now pick up the pieces. Any dispute between Revelation and a third party is none of my business, nor, I would think, yours. If the Midi Sequencer is advertised then people will buy it. > >In any case, I note you have not disputed the suggestion.... Sorry you lost me there. What suggestion? > >> Look at it this way - if you work for/with a company, is it write to air all >> of their business secrets in public? I think not. Although I probably know >> more that anyone, other than Alan Miles and Bruce Gordon, I will have to >save >> lots for my memoirs. > >There is a difference between airing all your business secrets, and being >honest about where you actually stand in the Sam world. Nobody seems >entirely convinced that Revelation is totally separate from Format or from >West Coast Computers. I will be quite happy to accept your explanations, >if you are prepared to give them to me. I have answered your questions. However, you seem to have some axe to grind that appears to be a little more personal than you admit to. >I have already stressed that I am >speaking from third-hand knowledge, but on the basis of the answers you >have given so far I find it easier to accept their version of events >rather than your own. The two are not compatible. They cannot both be >right. Even compromise could be tricky. If you can give me any reason why >the outside observer may have misinterpreted your innocent actions, then >I'd like to hear it, and I may be convinced by it. If you continue to >avoid all difficult questions, a lack of information cannot tell me >anything. Just what are you going on about? >I don't wan't trouble, if I could be convinced that everybody was playing >fair then I'd be very happy. Unfortunately the evidence I have heard so >far suggests that certain people have been somewhat underhand. I don't ask >this because I want to embarrass you, I just want to hear your side of the >story. Please tell me what it is. I have done, but, as I said, you seem to have some axe to grind that for some reason you want to grind with me. Why? What have I done? Or at least what have you got it into your head that I have done? > >Andrew > Sorry to others who have found this more than a little boring. But, having started this in public it would be wrong to finish it any other way. Rest assured that, like most people, I seek a quite life, but somehow I think there is going to be another long email from Andrew soon - I can feel it in my bones. Please though, could I agree with one of the other postings today. Could we try to keep down the amount of repeated text. All these >>>> are doing my eyes in. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 00:01:53 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:00:54 GMT Message-Id: <199610142300.XAA26841@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Whoooo are you - oo oo - oo oo.. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 636 Lines: 26 On Oct 14, 1996 09:22:07, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: >>Well, I did usedtabe on the list as another name >>butta noooo I'ma not de Goring type. > >It's that guy who we unsubbed for having a really stupid sword in his sig, >isn't it? :) :) :) > >Simon > -- I would not lower my high standards to the level of sware words. Oh $@+?%# now I've got to go out an buy a new pair of stockings before I go out.... Hay Nev Baby, Love de hard drive man, but still not working with 1 meg. Still, with 1.6Gb drive space I don't really need the 1 meg anymore. Kissy, Kissy. Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 00:02:37 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:01:21 GMT Message-Id: <199610142301.XAA26853@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no, slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 590 Lines: 23 On Oct 14, 1996 09:33:11, 'slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de' wrote: >>> slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de >> - Slawomir Grodowski. May no longer be at this address. >> >> > >I'm now back to the list and I will be more active , whn I read all 1000 emails > >,where I got :-) > >For all : I can upload to nvg a PC Mouse driver , Who want it ?? > >Slawek. -- Would love to see it. But could you explain how I would have to download it and what nvg is. Excuse my lack of knowhow - just never had the need before so I did not pay attention until know. Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 07:06:27 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:13:16 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <18765@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 121 Lines: 6 Now who would be so daft as to send mail out over the required eighty columns wide? :-) Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 07:06:27 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:31:25 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <18766@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1230 Lines: 26 In message <9610140953.AA2219@worldcom-37.worldcom.com> Stefan Drissen writes: > ********************************************************************************************************* > This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and > is not intended to be > relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its > contents. Accordingly, > Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability > (including in negligence) for the > consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such > information prior to the receipt > by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. > > If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately > by telephone. Please > also destroy and delete the message from your computer. > > Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, > distribution and/or > publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. > ********************************************************************************************************* Can we dispense with this rubbish on every message? Rather longer that the messages! Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 07:41:27 1996 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:29:06 +0100 (BST) From: Si Owen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals In-Reply-To: <103898D0E7E@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Message-Id: Organisation: Wordcraft International Ltd. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1241 Lines: 27 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996, Gavin Smith wrote: > If we are going to find out what times each of us are on a computer, > to get an almost instant reply to e-mail, wouldn't it be a better > idea to start the #SamCoupe channel I proposed in an earlier > mail? Then we really would have instant replies, and using IRC is > even simpler than sending an e-mail... I have to pay for my on-line time, so I've given up IRC, MUDs etc... Another nice thing about the mailing list is that you have a record of who's said what, without having to resort to capturing the entire session and filtering it! If there was a SamCoupe channel, I'd probably check it when I logged in to check my mail, but I can't afford to hang around for too long. Most of us seem to check our mail regularly (a couple of times a day?) so the response time is very good. Si /------------------------------------+----------------------------------------\ | Si Owen | Home: si@obobo.demon.co.uk | | Wordcraft International Ltd, UK | Work: sowen@wordcraft.co.uk | | Fax: +44-1332-295525 | WWW: www.obobo.demon.co.uk | \------------------------------------+----------------------------------------/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 07:49:06 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:41:27 +0100 (BST) From: Si Owen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe In-Reply-To: <961014184844_543053161@emout16.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organisation: Wordcraft International Ltd. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1040 Lines: 22 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 FormatPub@aol.com wrote: > Understand there is now a shareware prog on the PC that formats to 10 sectors > per track - anyone heard of this - it may help. FDFORMAT and FDREAD are the normal PC utility for this. I used FDFORMAT to format a DD disk as 10spt and SimCoupe now seems to recognise it (I get the No DOS error rather than it failing to read it). I didn't change the interleave or gap length - just use defaults for most settings. So... does this mean I have to disk copy all my disks on my Sam? I'll experiment loading FDREAD and trying to copy them on my PC. If anyone else manages it, let us know! Si /------------------------------------+----------------------------------------\ | Si Owen | Home: si@obobo.demon.co.uk | | Wordcraft International Ltd, UK | Work: sowen@wordcraft.co.uk | | Fax: +44-1332-295525 | WWW: www.obobo.demon.co.uk | \------------------------------------+----------------------------------------/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 08:20:08 1996 Message-Id: <9610150917.AA0902@worldcom-47.etcmail> To: "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." Cc: sam-users From: Stefan Drissen Date: 15 Oct 96 9:20:00 EDT Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1406 Lines: 28 ********************************************************************************************************* This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************************************************************* > Can we dispense with this rubbish on every message? Rather > longer that the messages! > Brian Pay attention Brian! I've already mentionend that I CANNOT remove it. It is attached to all messages that leave the internal email system by the gateway! I wish I could turn it off, but I can't. Unfortuantely the message has grown somewhat since the last time I saw it - it used to be just four lines... From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 08:47:08 1996 Message-Id: <9610150745.AA27705@namu24> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Cc: slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de Subject: Re: Mailer quibbles In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 14 Oct 96 19:39:13 +0200." <32627AC1.259C@pi.net> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 09:45:53 +0200 From: slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de X-Mts: smtp Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 437 Lines: 11 > >Is anyone using their SAM to read these messages? Hands up everybody, come on, >don't be shy! I can understand that if these messages were to be distributed >on >disc for SAM users without internet access then okay - but wouldn't a slightly >intelligent print routine fix everything anyway? > As I had at home modem connection to my uni , I have read all these messages at home on my Sam , but now I don't have it ... Slawek. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 09:04:56 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:26:27 +0100 (BST) From: Si Owen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Discs with SimCoupe In-Reply-To: <961014184844_543053161@emout16.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organisation: Wordcraft International Ltd. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 853 Lines: 17 In addition to FDFORMAT for DOS, it seems 'fdformat /dev/fd0D800' under Linux also works OK. I'll format a pile of disks today, and tonight I'll try transferring some stuff onto them. If teledisk copies them properly, it might be worth everyone expanding existing .TD0 files, copying them to the new format disk, and recreating the .TD0 files in a format that SimCoupe can read. If it works, I'll update the .TD0 files on my web-site tomorrow... Si /------------------------------------+----------------------------------------\ | Si Owen | Home: si@obobo.demon.co.uk | | Wordcraft International Ltd, UK | Work: sowen@wordcraft.co.uk | | Fax: +44-1332-295525 | WWW: www.obobo.demon.co.uk | \------------------------------------+----------------------------------------/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 09:40:23 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961015074208.002f47f4@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:42:08 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SIMM Memory Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1473 Lines: 35 At 14:47 14/10/96 -0400, you wrote: >As I said, parts are not a problem, as my repair guy has many different >things in stock and a good collection of electronics catalogues for those >bits he doesn't carry. I would be prepared to dig deep into my pocket and >fund a few bits if I thought the project was workable. I've just come across 12 x 1Mb 30-pin SIMMs myself... now the only problem is getting the time to sit down and do it ;) >My idea, on which I would love to hear comments, would be for an interface >(external I would think) that would hold 1 to 4 off 30 pin SIMMs. This would >give up to 4Mb of RAM addressable in the same way as the 1Mb units. > >Am I right is saying that the largest 30 pin SIMMs are 4Mb? Because if that >is the case then we could go up to 16Mb with the addition of an extra address >port to switch the banks. How about say, 4 x 30-pin sockets, and 2x72-pin ones? Just in case the supplies of 30-pin SIMMs dry up? >The big expence would be the board. A proper double sided one, with through >plating ect, would cost about 12 to 15 pounds each on a batch of 50 plus a >fee for setting up the board if we could not give them a proper CAD file to >work from. Ah, now the CAD file's no problem - I've got the same CAD software that Bruce used to design the SAM on :) >30 pin SIMM memory will still be with us for several years because there are >millions of Mbytes of it out there just waiting to be recycled onto SAM. Wahey! :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 09:40:23 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961015074212.002ff010@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:42:12 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SAM C Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 447 Lines: 12 At 18:48 14/10/96 -0400, you wrote: >Status: >I think it is very unfair to say that you can't use SAM C for serious >programming just because it doesn't have floats - I spent the first 10 years >in programming and never used floating point arithmatic once. *grins* In that case, how about that it's no use for serious programming because of the lack of proper file I/O support? Not to mention the lack of the simple sizeof() operator. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 09:40:23 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961015074213.0030d064@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:42:13 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 923 Lines: 17 >Some time ago I took the word of a very honourable gentleman that a product >would be available. I plugged it quite a bit. I still consider that person a >friend and I still consider him to be honourable - but he has been badly let >down by the designer of the product. He is struggling hard to get the >interface to work, he has sunk a lot of his own money into it (and he is not >a rich man) but the product is still far from ready. Now this relates to a >very hard working guy, many in the SAM field could not aspire to his level of >dedication. If he has disappointed people then how do you think people would >have reacted if lots of other products were paraded in front of them - only >to disappear in a puff of smoke? I'm jumping the gun a bit here, but are you talking about the digitiser which Martin Rookyard designed, and Derek Morgan is producing? Please let me know before I digress further.. Simon Cooke From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 09:43:51 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:42:55 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Wells To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAM C - Reply In-Reply-To: <9610141254.AA01347@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 611 Lines: 15 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > Just out of interest... if you have ProDos (or any CP/M emulator), > couldn't you get a free copy of small C? > > imc (who has heard lots of bad things about Sam C, such as the fact that > it requires lots more spaces in the source file than real C, it doesn't > do single-letter global variables, and it has hardly any stdio). Certainly you can get small C. You can also get a free copy of Hitech C, which I believe is ANSI C (as discussed in detail on this list a while ago). I have downloaded it, but haven't experimented with it yet. Tim W. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 10:06:02 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:00:21 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <18788@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 134 Lines: 8 Stefan, stop sending everything twice.. or is this yet another quirk of your Email system! :-) Brian Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 10:25:13 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:23:40 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam Users List, the second iteration: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 362 Lines: 22 Hokay, here are the people who are still unknown: The unsures: Rob Partington - rjp@heffer.demon.co.uk Jeff Crawford - samcoupe@cadderly.demon.co.uk The unknowns: ELA95BEC@sheffield.ac.uk 106350.2555@compuserve.com ffyon@enterprise.net C.F.CABLE@UCLAN.AC.UK Gouranga@aol.com janowska@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl se94jko@ex.ac.uk samsboss@uk.pipeline.com Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 11:02:52 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:59:39 GMT+0 Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <267ED8A14CA@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 186 Lines: 5 I'm just going to write to defend Bob's personal attack on Dave Ledbury - his heart was in the right place, even if his business acumen was not as sharp as it might have been. Johnna From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 11:07:13 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961015100721.00304b78@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:07:21 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: unsubscribe Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 321 Lines: 14 At 10:16 15/10/96 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >unsubscribe ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! When are people going to start keeping a copy of the info file they get when they're subscribed to this list? It's so *INFURIATING* when people do this kind of thing. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 11:19:00 1996 Message-Id: <9610151015.AA2635@worldcom-37.worldcom.com> To: sam-users From: Stefan Drissen Date: 15 Oct 96 11:51:22 Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1370 Lines: 32 ********************************************************************************************************* This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************************************************************* >Stefan, stop sending everything twice.. or is this yet another >quirk of your Email system! :-) > >Brian Hmmm???? Sorry Brian, but I have not got a clue as to what you're going on about! As far as I can tell I'm only getting one copy of my messages - this is also true for my home account. Hasn't /YOUR/ mail system done this kind of thing before???? :-) Stefan From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 11:19:43 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:16:35 GMT+0 Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <26836227D43@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 92 Lines: 4 Erm...my last message made noe sense at all. I was sticking up for David, alright? Johnna From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 11:38:05 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961015103849.002f9ab4@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:38:49 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 225 Lines: 10 At 10:00 15/10/96 GMT, you wrote: >Status: > >Stefan, stop sending everything twice.. or is this yet another >quirk of your Email system! :-) I dunno... these accountants... always sending things in triplicate :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 11:38:05 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961015103850.0030ddd4@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:38:50 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Sam Users List, the second iteration: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 449 Lines: 26 At 10:23 15/10/96 +0100, you wrote: >Hokay, here are the people who are still unknown: > >The unsures: > >Rob Partington - rjp@heffer.demon.co.uk >Jeff Crawford - samcoupe@cadderly.demon.co.uk > >The unknowns: > >ELA95BEC@sheffield.ac.uk >106350.2555@compuserve.com >ffyon@enterprise.net >C.F.CABLE@UCLAN.AC.UK >Gouranga@aol.com >janowska@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl >se94jko@ex.ac.uk The don't cares: >samsboss@uk.pipeline.com :) :) :) :) :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 11:42:45 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:35:35 +0100 From: D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) Message-Id: <199610151035.LAA12517@banin.cs.cf.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: unsubscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: JfyLE1oyIjpF1IR/h0i1rw== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 306 Lines: 15 ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! > > When are people going to start keeping a copy of the info file they get when > they're subscribed to this list? > > It's so *INFURIATING* when people do this kind of thing. > > Simon > > What info file? :) DMZ === From imc Tue Oct 15 12:09:01 1996 Subject: Re: Mailer quibbles To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:09:01 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <32627AC1.259C@pi.net> from "Stefan Drissen" at Oct 14, 96 07:39:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2743 Lines: 62 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 19:39:13 +0200, Stefan Drissen said: > Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: OK then clever clogs, if you can't remove that silly message from the top then why isn't it here?! > > Why should an 80 char window be considered prehistoric? > *YAWN* this discussion has been held before. It is not anybody's mailer that > I'm criticising - it's the email standard itself, it is too simple. Why should > the width of a message matter? Why can't you just type your text in like you do > on a wordprocessor and let the lines format themselves on the receiver's > machine? Because it just is. Live with it! OK, so the reasons are probably mainly historic (such as the fact that ancient mailing software used to have 256-byte buffers to hold the lines), but you can't just pretend that everything is how you want it to be and behave accordingly. Besides, if mail were sent unformatted then it would be more difficult to draw ASCII diagrams or underline things in the message you are responding to. Quoting someone else's message would be much more inconvenient, as would editing out the particular line or lines you wanted. > 80 columns is good for nothing - the fact that a message should be dictated by > columnwidth is ridiculous in this day and age. A message should be just that, a > message - the width is up to the reader. You seem to be contradicting yourself. > Time to upgrade I should say. Otherwise we always still have good old snail > mail - no worries with column width there. Unfortunately snail mail will not > fit itself to the format that the reader wants to use (without using scissors > and a lot of effort). Paper mail rarely looks such an awful mess as wide electronic mail, so there's no problem here. The width of the paper is obvious so people do not usually go on typing past the edge. No one decides that the paper is obviously not wide enough and so tries to resize it. > Is anyone using their SAM to read these messages? Hands up everybody, come on, > don't be shy! I don't actually read these messages on a Sam, but I do read newsgroups on a Sam (the precise reason why I started writing "less"). > > So there. Anyway, I believe it is *your* "prehistoric 80 char mailer" > > that is chopping the text up and making it such a mess. > My prehistoric mailer is NOT 80 chars - it can be whatever width, have lots of > fonts with different sizes and colours The message didn't have any fonts, sizes and colours in it by the time it got here. Also, when it got here, that too-wide canned disclaimer at the top had already been chopped up. My mailer did not chop it up and I doubt that nvg's did, so by a process of elimination it must have been your local mailer. imc From imc Tue Oct 15 12:11:28 1996 Subject: Re: Don't hold your breath To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:11:28 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610141237.NAA01133@fergus.cs.cf.ac.uk> from "D M Zambonini" at Oct 14, 96 01:37:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 246 Lines: 7 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:37:55 +0100, D M Zambonini said: > Ahahaha... it appears that for some really obscure > reason the requisite X11 header files are absent, full stop. Are you sure it's not just that you don't know where they are? :-) imc From imc Tue Oct 15 12:12:32 1996 Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:12:32 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610141610_MC1-AD0-BF8F@compuserve.com> from "Neville Young" at Oct 14, 96 04:10:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 210 Lines: 9 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:10:07 -0400, Neville Young said: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Dont know about any one else but I'm only online for about two mins. > at about 19:30. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Huh? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 12:23:33 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:22:16 +0100 (BST) From: "Appendixless-boy .." To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAM C In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961015074212.002ff010@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 707 Lines: 23 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Simon Cooke wrote: > At 18:48 14/10/96 -0400, someone wrote: > >I think it is very unfair to say that you can't use SAM C for serious > >programming just because it doesn't have floats - I spent the first 10 years > >in programming and never used floating point arithmatic once. > > *grins* In that case, how about that it's no use for serious programming > because of the lack of proper file I/O support? Not to mention the lack of > the simple sizeof() operator. > > Simon > Surely you could write some ... ;) Who knows, maybe it'd stop _certain_ people labelling you a 'useless demo coder' All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... Lee. From j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk Tue Oct 15 12:31:17 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: 100717.2266@compuserve.com, BBKaneda@galactica.it, Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk, allan@hpopb1.cern.ch, ar@RMnet.it, ben@charm.il.ft.hse.nl, briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk, d.c.hooper@sms.ed.ac.uk, drissen@pi.net, geoffw@jumper.mcc.ac.uk, gianni.zamperini@galactica.it, gommerd@interpac.be, janowska@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl, lamp@dcs.edinburgh.ac.uk, malevolent@netwales.co.uk, palucha@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl, pmyljja@hhn1.hughall.nottingham.ac.uk, rjp@heffer.demon.co.uk, samcoupe@cadderly.demon.co.uk, sh5655@bristol.ac.uk, si@obobo.demon.co.uk, Simon.Cooke@umist.ac.uk, tgw1001@cam.ac.uk, Jon_Hampton@iconex.mactel.org, ft@edh.ericsson.se, dean@error.demon.co.uk, djg528@bham.ac.uk, davewhitmore@enterprise.net, 9548777@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK, smith-gc@ulst.ac.uk, Gouranga@aol.com, c.f.cable@uclan.ac.uk, unc@dplinux.sund.ac.uk, ffyon@enterprise.net, blackadder@orinocco.demon.co.uk, matthew@bealing.avel.co.uk, samsboss@uk.pipeline.com, Stefan_Drissen@nl.coopers.com, FormatPub@aol.com, ee31ag@surrey.ac.uk, keith@cursci.co.uk, 106350.2555@compuserve.com, simon@studio.woden.com, ELA95BEC@sheffield.ac.uk, DOOREDJ@parliament.uk, 106166.1560@compuserve.com, mne2@cableol.co.uk, rjvveeke@caiw.nl, D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk, P.R.Walker@csv.warwick.ac.uk, d.handley@lancaster.ac.uk, c93js1@dmu.ac.uk, slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de, asc25@cam.ac.uk, L.Willis@comp.brad.ac.uk Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:22:54 GMT+0 Subject: Th Speccy FTP Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <269661A74B9@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Status: RO Content-Length: 280 Lines: 8 Am I right in saying that if I download the Speccy .sna files from the FTP I will be able to run them on my SAM by converting them using KE_Disk and then running tem using the MGT Emulator or SC_Speclon or something? Or is there something else that needs to be done? Johnna. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 12:42:11 1996 Message-Id: <199610151141.MAA14292@mail.enterprise.net> X-Authentication-Warning: mail.enterprise.net: Host max05-026.enterprise.net [194.72.198.26] didn't use HELO protocol From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) Subject: teledisk SAM files <> Amiga Date: 15 Oct 1996 12:34:57 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3/NetGate 1.1 Mime-Version: 1.1 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 708 Lines: 21 Problem. I have an Amiga. I can't transfer Teledisk TD0 files onto SAM disks. (boo hoo!) Teledisk appears to work on my PC emulator, up to the point were it has to write to the floppy drives. I can read and write normal PC files, but Teledisk obviously doesn't use the same routines that the emulator does. Do TD0 image files only store the tracks that are used, or does it compress empty tracks too? I wouldn't mind if I could *uncompress* the file into a large file that I could could split and transfer, then write directly to the tracks of a SAM disk, using SAM. Any ideas would be appreciated. Either here or in email. Thanks, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore email - davewhitmore@enterprise.net From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 13:00:50 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:54:13 +0100 From: D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) Message-Id: <199610151154.MAA09633@igraine.cs.cf.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Don't hold your breath Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: N5WIynGeeNz6+2+1CN29Jw== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 348 Lines: 14 > On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:37:55 +0100, D M Zambonini said: > > Ahahaha... it appears that for some really obscure > > reason the requisite X11 header files are absent, full stop. > > Are you sure it's not just that you don't know where they are? :-) > > imc I am quite capable of running whereis from the command prompt, thankyou. :) DMZ === From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 13:28:35 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:23:46 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Th Speccy FTP - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 527 Lines: 18 > Am I right in saying that if I download the Speccy .sna files from > the FTP I will be able to run them on my SAM by converting them using > KE_Disk and then running tem using the MGT Emulator or SC_Speclon or something? > > Or is there something else that needs to be done? AFAIK There are no native .SNA emulators for Sam, so what I do is convert them to Z80 format (by loading them into Z80 (The PC emulator) and saving them out) and use the fragile-but-handy Z80/SNA snap converter written by DMZ to use them. Dan. From imc Tue Oct 15 13:31:35 1996 Subject: Re: Don't hold your breath To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:31:35 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610151154.MAA09633@igraine.cs.cf.ac.uk> from "D M Zambonini" at Oct 15, 96 12:54:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 437 Lines: 16 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:54:13 +0100, D M Zambonini said: > I am quite capable of running whereis from the command prompt, thankyou. :) NAME whereis - locate the binary, source, and manual page files for a command DESCRIPTION [snip] whereis then attempts to locate the desired program in a list of standard places: There's no way that "whereis" is going to tell you where the X11 include files are! imc From imc Tue Oct 15 13:32:44 1996 Subject: Re: Th Speccy FTP - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:32:44 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Doore" at Oct 15, 96 01:23:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 440 Lines: 12 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:23:46 +0100, Dan Doore said: > AFAIK There are no native .SNA emulators for Sam, so what I do is > convert them to > Z80 format (by loading them into Z80 (The PC emulator) and saving > them out) and > use the fragile-but-handy Z80/SNA snap converter written by DMZ to > use them. Or if you have Linux (or SunOS) then you can write the .sna file on to a Sam disk as a Sam snapshot directly using samtools. :-) imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 13:54:59 1996 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mmdf-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at relay-3.mail.demon.net Subject: SIMM Memory Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:43:51 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <845383136.8466.0@error.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1997 Lines: 54 > From: FormatPub@aol.com > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: SIMM Memory > Date: Monday, 14 October 1996 19:47 > > In a message dated 14/10/96 08:27:39, you write: > My idea, on which I would love to hear comments, would be for an interface > (external I would think) that would hold 1 to 4 off 30 pin SIMMs. This would > give up to 4Mb of RAM addressable in the same way as the 1Mb units. > > Am I right is saying that the largest 30 pin SIMMs are 4Mb? Because if that > is the case then we could go up to 16Mb with the addition of an extra address > port to switch the banks. > > The big expence would be the board. A proper double sided one, with through > plating ect, would cost about 12 to 15 pounds each on a batch of 50 plus a > fee for setting up the board if we could not give them a proper CAD file to > work from. > > 30 pin SIMM memory will still be with us for several years because there are > millions of Mbytes of it out there just waiting to be recycled onto SAM. Sorry Bob, I've got to disagree with you there, I reckon that 30 pin SIMM's will be out in a couple of years. They're already about 4 times the price of 72pin memory, albeit a hell of a lot cheaper than DIL memory chips at about 4 UKP per 256K * 4bit chip, 8 per MB. I had the very same idea a while back, same as Cooke too ;-), to have a new SAM motherboard with 6 SIMM sockets on, 2 * 256K + 4 * 1MB. but I don't think that it will ever be realised. Now that Pentium based PC are the 'standard' now and the newer 'DIMM' memory modules are starting, the 72pin SIMM will, in the not too distant future start to die, or become overly expensive. This will put the memory module into a similar situation as the internal floppy drive were it 'was' very expensive to replace the drive because of the 'stupid' idea of putting the drive controller in with the drive unit! instead of just leaving an empty socket on the motherboard for it to be placed it and using industry standard drives. Bye Dean -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 13:55:32 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:52:26 +0100 (BST) From: "Appendixless-boy .." To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Don't hold your breath In-Reply-To: <9610151231.AA02380@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 716 Lines: 28 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:54:13 +0100, D M Zambonini said: > > I am quite capable of running whereis from the command prompt, thankyou. :) > > NAME > whereis - locate the binary, source, and manual page files > for a command > > DESCRIPTION > [snip] > whereis then attempts to locate the desired program > in a list of standard places: > > There's no way that "whereis" is going to tell you where the X11 include > files are! > Try find / -name filename_that_you're_looking_for >& /dev/null which should find them if they're there ... All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... Lee. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 13:56:51 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:52:51 +0100 (BST) From: "Appendixless-boy .." To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Don't hold your breath In-Reply-To: <9610151231.AA02380@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 423 Lines: 18 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > NAME > whereis - locate the binary, source, and manual page files > for a command > > DESCRIPTION > [snip] > whereis then attempts to locate the desired program > in a list of standard places: > Maybe we should rename this list to unix-users ;) All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... Lee. From imc Tue Oct 15 13:59:37 1996 Subject: Re: Don't hold your breath To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:59:37 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "Appendixless-boy .." at Oct 15, 96 01:52:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 306 Lines: 11 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:52:26 +0100 (BST), Appendixless-boy .. said: > Try > find / -name filename_that_you're_looking_for >& /dev/null Of course, that will clog up the machine for years on a big system like this. imc PS you forgot the -print PPS why are you throwing the output away with the errors? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 14:02:01 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:56:17 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Paveley To: Sam Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Th Speccy FTP In-Reply-To: <269661A74B9@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 794 Lines: 21 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, j.d.teare wrote: > Am I right in saying that if I download the Speccy .sna files from > the FTP I will be able to run them on my SAM by converting them using > KE_Disk and then running tem using the MGT Emulator or SC_Speclon or > something? There is a basic program on nvg that will convert a SNA file to the snapshot file used by the Sam. I forget where it is, but it comes as a pak file called something like convert.pak, copy it to a sam disk, and extract it. Volia, a basic prog that does everything you need :) ....@/ .........................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - http://dplinux.sund.ac.uk/~unc/ Staff of the Monochrome BBS - http://www.mono.org/ Owner of a Sam Coupe - http://www.mono.org/~unc/Coupe/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 14:26:44 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:25:16 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961015092515_211305490@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Mailer quibbles Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 76 Lines: 1 Surely in this day and age most email readers/writers word-wrap long lines? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 14:28:44 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 14:27:24 +0100 (BST) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@galois.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: SAM users list Subject: Extending the BASIC.. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2146 Lines: 44 Hi.. OK, now I've managed to get through 100+ emails of people fighting, I was wondering if I could ask a question... I know it's a simple question, but don't have to flame me too much. How do you extend the BASIC command set? The info given in the tech Manual isn't exactly clear. Perhaps some easy-to-follow source code won't go amiss.. Or at least point me in the right direction on the net (any faqs?)... And is there any info on the format of the BASIC programme in the RAM? I'm trying to convert my SAM BASIC files over to my PC using KE-DISK and then viewing them as a text file. I can work out the tokens but what are all those bytes after variables etc? Is there any standard format? So far, I got around the problem by: RECORD TO a$ : LIST #16 : RECORD STOP : SAVE "prog.sam" DATA a$ I half expected it to expand the tokens for me too, but it didn't so I'm in the process of just writting a C prog on the PC to do just that. It's a lot simpler than my original design, but I'm sure I'm reinventing the wheel here. Let me explain what I'm doing: My TV's crap and won't give a decent picture so my eyes become sore when I program my SAM (How the hell did I manage it before my PC?). So I was thinking about programming my SAM on my PC and then shuttling it across and sticking it in the SAM using KEYIN... I suppose I could use the XCoupe or something but I have no disk space left to install Linux and, at the moment, I can't afford extra disk space. I know that I could use those bootable disks, but I'm assuming it would need to write swap-files to disk.... Fine, except my entire hard-drive is doublespaced... Any other ideas? PS. Machine programs should be fine, compile them on a cross-assembler and then shuttle them across... -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 15:05:53 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:02:52 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Wells To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Extending the BASIC.. In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2421 Lines: 50 > I know it's a simple question, but don't have to flame me too much. How do > you extend the BASIC command set? The info given in the tech Manual isn't > exactly clear. Perhaps some easy-to-follow source code won't go amiss.. Or > at least point me in the right direction on the net (any faqs?)... It's a simple question, but for me, the answer's none too simple: I started out by using keywords that are already there, and adding new meanings to them - things like POW, ZAP etc. In the system heap, I put a little routine which checked that the next command to be run was my command - if it wasn't then I give the command back to the ROM. (I think an example of this is included in the Tech. man). If it is your command, then you have to syntax check it - I found this the worst bit, but the way to sort this out is to have a look at what happens in the ROM. (I found ROM source listing available from Andy Wright useful here - saves having to work at what goes on completely from scratch). There are some ROM jump locations which help here. In fact it is beneficial to use some of the ROM routines here, as you have to make sure everything is OK for the ROM to start on the next command, and the ROM routines do a lot of this for you. Finally, you get your parameters on the FP calc. stack, and get to start doing whatever your command is supposed to do. Having read this through, it doesn't seem very clear - I've some source which does this sitting beside my SAM in Leeds. If no-one has explained it better, I get the source in a few weeks, and post it to you. If you want to start inventing your own tokens - there are others on this list who have experimented more with that. > And is there any info on the format of the BASIC programme in the RAM? I'm > trying to convert my SAM BASIC files over to my PC using KE-DISK and then > viewing them as a text file. I can work out the tokens but what are all those > bytes after variables etc? Is there any standard format? So far, I got around > the problem by: > > RECORD TO a$ : LIST #16 : RECORD STOP : SAVE "prog.sam" DATA a$ Can't say much about the program format beyond what's in the tech man. However from my speccy days, I remember that after numbers, you get a 14, followed by the five byte representation of that number. Have you tried LLIST #16 in the above? I had an idea that LLIST expands tokens, but am not sure. Tim Wells. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 15:07:14 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 14:58:35 GMT Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <11E66BB611B@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 195 Lines: 6 Erm is it just me or does everyone get at least two copies of Stefan's mail (inside the same mail). I also get bits and pieces of mails from OTHER people inside these mails... ?!! Gavin Smith From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 15:22:28 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SIMM Memory To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:20:45 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <845383136.8466.0@error.demon.co.uk> from "Dean Liversidge" at Oct 15, 96 12:43:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 909 Lines: 24 > Sorry Bob, I've got to disagree with you there, I reckon that 30 pin SIMM's > will be out in a couple of years. They're already about 4 times the price > of 72pin memory, albeit a hell of a lot cheaper than DIL memory chips at > about 4 UKP per 256K * 4bit chip, 8 per MB. > Surely the point is to use the glut of 30-pin SIMMs lying around at the moment - secondhand. Nobody wants these 1MegX9 bit SIMMS, so they are going for peanuts. Yes, the source may dry up, but not for ages as far as I can see, Can someone just check if this is right for me, please... (I don't have a meg, but this is what I gather): * The memory appears at 8000h-ffffh when XMEML goes low. * The bank at 8000h-bfffh is determined by port 128 * The bank at c000h-ffffh is determined by port 129 * Ports 128 & 129 are write-only. Also, aside from the DRAMs themselves, roughly how many i.c.'s does the Bruce's Meg have? -ANdy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 15:35:02 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:32:06 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Wells To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. In-Reply-To: <199610141317.OAA09866@irix.bris.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1066 Lines: 21 SL. Harding wrote: > list, I suggested the construction of a brand new (correct me if I am > wrong) way of expanding SAM's horizons -A Sam-compiler which could compile > Sam code into executable PC code so we could sell autorunning SAM games to the > general PC owning public. > > The only responses That were made to the list about this suggestion were > the same old dreary comments about how Emulators (will/will not) destroy > the Sam, When I was suggestion something quite different with great potential. It's a nice idea, and this is one of the theoretical benefits of writing in SAM C - programs are easily transferred between different machines. However the majority of games on the SAM are written in assembler to get the required speed. Whilst I'm sure a suitable assembler could take the Z80 instructions and translate them for a PC, I doubt it could be made to understand and translate the hardware instructions. The only real way of transferring this sort of thing would be to include the SAM code as part of a dedicated emulator. Tim Wells. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 16:17:33 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:14:23 +0100 From: D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) Message-Id: <199610151514.QAA03900@kay.cs.cf.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Th Speccy FTP - Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: SrfwV4J5W70+gFKrsReFlw== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 429 Lines: 15 > AFAIK There are no native .SNA emulators for Sam, so what I do is > convert them to > Z80 format (by loading them into Z80 (The PC emulator) and saving > them out) and > use the fragile-but-handy Z80/SNA snap converter written by DMZ to > use them. > You mean it WORKS??!!! Wow. I gave that up as a lost cause ages ago... If I ever get my hands on the file specs. again I could probably write a proper version now. DMZ === From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 16:18:54 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:16:53 +0100 From: D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) Message-Id: <199610151516.QAA03924@kay.cs.cf.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Don't hold your breath Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: g64tnXfEJFPKQROGubSejg== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 343 Lines: 18 > NAME > whereis - locate the binary, source, and manual page files > for a command > > DESCRIPTION > [snip] > whereis then attempts to locate the desired program > in a list of standard places: > > There's no way that "whereis" is going to tell you where the X11 include > files are! > Ah.... :) DMZ === From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 16:36:05 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:33:13 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Th Speccy FTP - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 988 Lines: 30 > > AFAIK There are no native .SNA emulators for Sam, so what I do is > > convert them to > > Z80 format (by loading them into Z80 (The PC emulator) and saving > > them out) and > > use the fragile-but-handy Z80/SNA snap converter written by DMZ to > > use them. > > > > You mean it WORKS??!!! Wow. I gave that up as a lost cause ages ago... > If I ever get my hands on the file specs. again I could probably write > a proper version now. Well, the Z80 converter works fine, the SNA one is, I believe, jiggered. For those who don't know, the version DMZ produced was in Basic and was sloooooww but funtional and converted the Z80 files to EMU files (Messenger format???) If Mr Collier's samtools can do the SNA conversion, I'm sure he wouldn't mind giving you a look at the C source - I presume samtools is in C of course. The only bad thing about the converter was that it didn't make Snapshot files, so if you get around to it, how about implimenting that as well. ;-) Dan. From imc Tue Oct 15 17:07:50 1996 Subject: Re: Mailer quibbles To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:07:50 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <961015092515_211305490@emout19.mail.aol.com> from "FormatPub@aol.com" at Oct 15, 96 09:25:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 752 Lines: 19 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:25:16 -0400, FormatPub@aol.com said: > Surely in this day and age most email readers/writers word-wrap long lines? Not really. Or, to be more precise, many editors for sending email have a word-wrap feature (although it isn't necessarily turned on all the time) but many Unix mail readers do not word-wrap long lines. They character-wrap them. On the other hand, even if your mail reading software does word-wrap long lines it doesn't necessarily make the email any easier to read, as I am now demonstrating. The problem is that the email may still have carriage returns in it which the mail reader obeys, thus giving the effect of alternate long and short lines, which is harder to read as well as being a right mess. imc From imc Tue Oct 15 17:13:49 1996 Subject: Re: Extending the BASIC.. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:13:49 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "Justin Skists" at Oct 15, 96 02:27:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 780 Lines: 18 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 14:27:24 +0100 (BST), Justin Skists said: > I know it's a simple question, but don't have to flame me too much. How do > you extend the BASIC command set? Depends on whether you want to extend the meaning of a particular word or invent a new one. Or in fact if you want to invent a new one then it is extra work followed by the same business of extending the interpreter. The tech manual says something about it but you may need to examine the ROM to find out what things the registers have in them and which ones you can change. > And is there any info on the format of the BASIC programme in the RAM? Perhaps these two questions are potential subjects for an article in BOAI. :-) I seem to remember Simon mentioned something about file formats... imc From imc Tue Oct 15 17:15:29 1996 Subject: Re: Extending the BASIC.. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:15:29 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "Tim Wells" at Oct 15, 96 03:02:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 210 Lines: 7 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:02:52 +0100 (BST), Tim Wells said: > Have you tried LLIST #16 in the above? > I had an idea that LLIST expands tokens, but am not sure. LLIST == LIST so I very much doubt it. :-) imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 17:26:54 1996 Message-Id: <199610151624.SAA10785@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman Subject: Discs problems with SimCoupe To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 18:24:09 METDST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1522 Lines: 31 Hi Guys, Just popped into work to do some teaching; boy what a lot of messages! Lets just get one thing straight about Linux and SimCoupe - Linux, DOES NOT use the PC BIOS (BIOS is real mode stuff and Linux ALWAYS runs in protected mode). Now if everyone is using SimCoupe from the boot/root disks then the problem cannot lie in the kernel OR the device files. The problem must lie in the disks themselves. I am using the Linux device driver for 80 track double sided 10 sector/track disks - /dev/fdH800 in UNIX speak, if the disk is in this form (and as far as I know SAM disks are) it should work. In my tests I have not found a disk which doesn't - either SAMDOS formatted or MASTERDOS - weird Also Format doesn't work on SimCoupe yet - well not untill I get around to coding the write track command on the floppy controller. Allan -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Now available! XCoupe, the one and only SAM Coupe emulator | | *** http://www.hep.ucl.ac.uk/~ajs/xcoupe *** | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ | Allan Skillman | "There are five flavours of resons, the | | HEPP Group | elementary particles of magic : up, down, | | University College London | sideways, sex-appeal and peppermint." | | Email : ajs@hep.ucl.ac.uk | - Terry Pratchett (Lords and Ladies) | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 17:26:55 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:23:49 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Extending the BASIC.. - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 345 Lines: 16 > > Have you tried LLIST #16 in the above? > > I had an idea that LLIST expands tokens, but am not sure. > > LLIST == LIST so I very much doubt it. :-) I've done this by using LLIST but there were also two pokes that needed to be done (I think they were in an article in ZAT) as well. I'll have a dig around tonight if I remember. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 18:01:17 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:55:49 +0200 From: David Gommeren Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang To: Sam List In-Reply-To: <26836227D43@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: David Gommeren, Belgium X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.08] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 288 Lines: 10 On Tue 15 Oct, j.d.teare wrote: > Erm...my last message made noe sense at all. I was sticking up for > David, alright? We all understood it, and I agree with you. Although I would like to here the full story, so far I only know bits and pieces :) David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 18:01:18 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:17:30 +0200 From: David Gommeren Subject: Re: Writers request To: Sam List In-Reply-To: <96Oct10.132444+0100_met.145485-26246+62@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: David Gommeren, Belgium X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.08] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 363 Lines: 13 On Thu 10 Oct, Simon Cooke wrote: > David Gommeren (on anything you fancy!) I should have a holiday of two weeks now. This first day I spend working in the UK, the 2nd driving back from the UK and solving a major software problem (which I created myself :) Maybe a full explanation of my music player (including source)? David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 18:01:57 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:16:02 +0200 From: David Gommeren Subject: Re: Let's clear the air then. To: Sam List In-Reply-To: <961013151050_542281920@emout15.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: David Gommeren, Belgium X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.08] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1637 Lines: 35 On Sun 13 Oct, FormatPub@aol.com wrote: > I have called people USELESS DEMO CODERS in the past, but that is "useless > demo" coders. It is the useless demos, on which I've seen so many people > waste their time and talent, that anger me - not the coders. Why? That is the > question. Why waste so much time and effort? Are you just trying to get > recognition? Because if that is the case then I am more than happy to help > any one of you finish something constructive that will really do SAM some > good. > > There is real talent in the SAM field, I just wish a little more of it was > put to real use. Being an (ex-)demo programmer (both Spectrum and Sam) I can agree with your opinion. First: programming demos started on the C64 (and later Spectrum) where there were plenty of games etc. The demo just continued life on the Sam. Second: What you probably don't see is that, where games are just consumption thingies (what's correct the word here?), demos are written for and by the "users". This created a special sub-subculture of computer-users (who had a lot of fun, because writing a demo is much, much more fun than writing a game (And having to change an excellent name into a very stupid one). It also takes far less time. Personally, I have been very disappointed in writing games (I know I started too late, I should have started in 1983 or something, but in that year I got my first computer). If I ever write a game again (maybe when the company I work for goes down :( (sp?)) I probably make it PD again. As for serious software (on the Sam), forget it, it's not serious ;) David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 18:02:09 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:13:28 +0200 From: David Gommeren Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. To: Sam List In-Reply-To: <96Oct10.131327+0100_met.145480-26246+60@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: David Gommeren, Belgium X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.08] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 317 Lines: 11 On Thu 10 Oct, Simon Cooke wrote: > Now the only question I have is whya re all these people so quiet? > Simon Because they are so bloody busy reading about 200 messages from this list about HTML, Unix etc. (On a Sam list?) after being out of the country for a couple of days. David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 15 18:02:09 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:21:58 +0200 From: David Gommeren Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. To: Sam List In-Reply-To: <9610110700.AA14365@asmal.edh-net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: David Gommeren, Belgium X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.08] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 584 Lines: 24 On Fri 11 Oct, Frode Tenneboe wrote: > > Maybe because traffic is already high on this list?! :-) > > What makes you say that? :) > > > > > Would anyone be interested if I did a CD-ROM containing > > the whole SAM ftp archive (nvg.unit.no)? > > OK, if you a) don't mind making a SCSI interface for the > SAM and b) allows for massive overkill as the SAM archive > is measly 38Mb. How about changing that guys!? Add the Spectrum archive? > BTW: Why aren't there any gals around here? Why? Aren't you happily (sp?) married :) > -Frode David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From imc Wed Oct 16 11:32:01 1996 Subject: Re: Sam Users list - first iteration. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:32:01 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "David Gommeren" at Oct 15, 96 04:21:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 253 Lines: 7 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:21:58 +0200, David Gommeren said: > +vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6+vr6 You what?! Do you realise you have just sent two loads of complete junk and one off-topic obituary to this list? imc From imc Wed Oct 16 11:46:54 1996 Subject: Message logs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:46:54 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1922 Lines: 42 OK, all you people (person?) who have just come back and wanted logs of the last few months' activities... I have unpacked them all into this directory: http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/oucl/users/ian.collier/Misc/sam-users/ where you will find approximately one file per week (occasionally I put two weeks into one because hardly anything arrived). I have... -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 59506 Oct 15 17:49 su960315 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 46100 Oct 15 17:50 su960323 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 27852 Oct 15 17:51 su960330 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 42302 Oct 15 17:51 su960413 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 70880 Oct 15 17:52 su960420 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 147896 Oct 15 17:52 su960427 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 74318 Oct 15 17:53 su960504 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 91320 Oct 15 17:53 su960511 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 73536 Oct 15 17:54 su960518 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 138468 Oct 15 17:54 su960525 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 91020 Oct 15 17:54 su960601 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 136275 Oct 15 17:55 su960608 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 65357 Oct 15 17:56 su960615 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 32251 Oct 15 17:56 su960622 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 26153 Oct 15 17:56 su960629 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 42891 Oct 15 17:57 su960706 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 53030 Oct 15 17:58 su960720 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 30483 Oct 15 17:58 su960803 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 36447 Oct 15 17:59 su960810 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 46361 Oct 15 17:59 su960817 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 63295 Oct 15 18:00 su960831 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 104902 Oct 15 18:00 su960907 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 77792 Oct 15 18:00 su960914 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 90539 Oct 15 18:00 su960921 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 169853 Oct 15 18:01 su960928 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 300198 Oct 15 18:01 su961005 -rw-r--r-- 1 imc 413404 Oct 15 18:02 su961012 which makes about 2.5 megs worth. Note how the date is cunningly hidden in the name of each file. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 16 14:05:06 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:53:10 GMT Message-Id: <199610151753.RAA03043@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Extending the BASIC.. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: SAM users list X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2783 Lines: 79 On Oct 15, 1996 14:27:24, 'Justin Skists ' wrote: >Hi.. > >OK, now I've managed to get through 100+ emails of people fighting, I was >wondering if I could ask a question... > >I know it's a simple question, but don't have to flame me too much. How do >you extend the BASIC command set? The info given in the tech Manual isn't >exactly clear. Perhaps some easy-to-follow source code won't go amiss.. Or >at least point me in the right direction on the net (any faqs?)... > >And is there any info on the format of the BASIC programme in the RAM? I'm >trying to convert my SAM BASIC files over to my PC using KE-DISK and then >viewing them as a text file. I can work out the tokens but what are all those >bytes after variables etc? Is there any standard format? So far, I got around >the problem by: > >RECORD TO a$ : LIST #16 : RECORD STOP : SAVE "prog.sam" DATA a$ > >I half expected it to expand the tokens for me too, but it didn't so I'm in >the >process of just writting a C prog on the PC to do just that. It's a lot >simpler >than my original design, but I'm sure I'm reinventing the wheel here. > >Let me explain what I'm doing: My TV's crap and won't give a decent picture so >my eyes become sore when I program my SAM (How the hell did I manage it before >my PC?). So I was thinking about programming my SAM on my PC and then >shuttling >it across and sticking it in the SAM using KEYIN... > >I suppose I could use the XCoupe or something but I have no disk space left to >install Linux and, at the moment, I can't afford extra disk space. I know that >I could use those bootable disks, but I'm assuming it would need to write >swap-files to disk.... Fine, except my entire hard-drive is doublespaced... > >Any other ideas? > >PS. Machine programs should be fine, compile them on a cross-assembler and >then >shuttle them across... > >-- >============================================================================= >|Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | >|BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | >|De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | >============================================================================= > -- Get a copy of PC-Suite from SD Software. It has Basic-Text, Text-Basic conversion routines and the best PC conversion software money can buy. At uni I did all my written work on the SAM at home and then ported the text to a PC disc and took it in each day. Typing a SAM program on a PC full screen editor works very well, although the fact that you can't just type RUN and see if your code works does get you down at times. Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 16 14:05:20 1996 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 14:36:59 -0400 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-Id: <961015143658_127320601@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Newsgroups and other animals Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 444 Lines: 19 In a message dated 15/10/96 06:07:13, you write: >Now who would be so daft as to send mail out over the required eighty columns >wide? :-) > >Brian > >-- >Brian Gaff Sam Dept. > > How do I know how long a line is? With AOl's mail reader it would depend on the size of the window. I just keep typing until I reach the end of a paragraph. Until the other day when it was raised here, I would not have dreamed there was any restriction. Bob.