From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sat Oct 19 13:51:37 1996 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:47:46 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961019084746_546602157@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Copyright Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 323 Lines: 7 I put the copyright message on anything that I do not want to appear in print without my permission. Reason? If what I say in these posings is going to be quoted somewhere I just want to know about it. It would be very unreasonable to withold my permission - but I still want to hold on to the right to be consulted. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sat Oct 19 14:23:40 1996 Message-Id: <326944ED.2808@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 14:15:25 -0700 From: MR P R WALKER Organization: Computing Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang References: <961016141317_212574360@emout15.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1445 Lines: 35 FormatPub@aol.com wrote: > Before I start answering this, could someone please tell me why so many lines > start with > Fac> Is this another of the strange aberrations of netspeak? Nope - it's the initials of FormatPub@aol.com. It's usually standard to do this so people don't get mixed up. (Netscape mail doesn't, for some strange reason.) > >ever come across a firm who have been so reluctant to tell their customers > >who they are. This is all seriously weird Bob.. weird! > West Coast Computers are the company that holds the rights to the hardware > What is seriously weird about that? Nothing - the weird bit is your point-blank refusal to name any of the people running WCC. > > >>> Or would you have preferred to have them spend, spend, spend (on > > >>> advertising) and gone bust in 12 months? > > >> That doesn't necessarily follow. > > Fac> I assure you it does. Look a Commodore for a start. Meant to reply to this before - this has got to be one of the daftest comments you've made. So Intel, Microsoft, Lotus et al are going to be bust in 12 months? No? Well, I've seen them advertising in lots of places. > As I've always said, and done, I will answer any question I can. Provided it > is put as a question, not the 'vague (and overly verbose) hide a question > within something else' sort of thing that has been put so far. Okay. What is the name of the MD of WCC? And why can't you answer the question? Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sat Oct 19 14:23:41 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:56:27 +0100 (BST) From: "Appendixless-boy .." To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Copyright In-Reply-To: <961019084746_546602157@emout01.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 834 Lines: 21 On Sat, 19 Oct 1996 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > I put the copyright message on anything that I do not want to appear in print > without my permission. > Reason? If what I say in these posings is going to be quoted somewhere I just ^^^^^^^ how appropriate ... Sorry about that .... I don't see why there's any need for a copyright message. After all if you're prepared to say something to the members of this list why should there be a problem with people quoting it to elsewhere. After all if you had a _real_ conversation with someone you'd find it perfectly reasonable for them to quote what you said to them if it was relevant to another conversation they had wouldn't you ....? All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... Lee. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sat Oct 19 14:26:26 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 14:24:35 +0100 (BST) From: "Appendixless-boy .." To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang In-Reply-To: <326944ED.2808@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 338 Lines: 12 On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, MR P R WALKER wrote: > Nope - it's the initials of FormatPub@aol.com. It's usually standard to > do this so people don't get mixed up. (Netscape mail doesn't, for some > strange reason.) Netscape, non-standard, surely not .... All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... Lee. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sat Oct 19 14:37:34 1996 Subject: Re: The ASIC To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 14:35:35 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <961019084745_546602151@emout20.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Oct 19, 96 08:47:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct19.143544+0100_met.46973-89+8@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1224 Lines: 25 > > Hi Matt, nice to hear from you again. > > Two different ASICs here mate. The one they are talking about was one that > was reported in an issue of Your Sinclair. It related to a conversation John > Pillar (I think) had with Bruce Gordon which lead to a misunderstanding. > Bruce, in one of his wilder moments, had quoted a sum of money as being the > amount that would be needed to do a new ASIC. John put together an bit in YS > that basically said Bruce would do a new ASIC with lots of extras if a > certain number of people were prepared to put down a given amount of money > each. > > The problem was that Bruce was neither serious about the project, nor at that > time able to do it. I was asked, at the time, by Bruce to use my editorial in > FORMAT to stamp on the story before it got out of hand. However, it still > comes back to haunt us from time to time. Well, in that case, it would have been nice if Bruce had told me that he wasn't serious about it all. Then the campaign wouldn't have started in YS. I thin kthat most people are going to see their own version of this story until Bruce himself pipes up and tells all... No matter whether either of us are telling it exactly as we saw it. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 09:12:37 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:34:56 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <19057@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: First Question For Bob. X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 734 Lines: 27 In message <199610171836.SAA06867@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) writes: > On Oct 16, 1996 22:50:38, '"A.S. Collier" ' wrote: > > > > First Question Bob. > > SB-1) Are you, or have you ever been, a director of West Coast Computer > Limited? > > Ok folks I've started the ball rolling, and I've put my initials at the > start to make it even easier. > Do we really care? Can you convince me that whether Bob, or anyone else has been anything like a director is of anything other than passing interest? By the way, a Kempston joystick interface works on SAM. Now if only I could find where I put the darned thing... Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 09:12:38 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:43:17 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <19058@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Reply to 17/10(20:31) message A.S.Collier. X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 341 Lines: 18 In message "A.S. Collier" writes: > For the third time, how many of David Ledbury's business incarnations can > you name? > > > > Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone. Translation... Lets not get into HEAVY here, eh? Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 09:13:16 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:52:59 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <19059@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The final word... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 330 Lines: 11 In message <199610181457.PAA12691@aron.cs.cf.ac.uk> D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) writes: > unsubscribe sam-users-flame@nvg.unit.no > And I thought I was the one with a visual impairment! Even I saw the message about where to send these messages... Brian (David Ledbury for Prime Minister) -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 10:29:16 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 09:39:50 GMT From: warthog@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Arguments R Us) Message-Id: <19083@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Looking back in anger... X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1340 Lines: 39 OK OK O bloody K! It seems to me that we are now discussing personal perceptions of the past on this list. Now I am all for free speexh and all that, but recrimination, cannot change what has happened. What do you think would have happened to SAM if Bob had not stepped in? OK he has a vested interest, OK you may disagree with what he has donm and how he does it. Well that is tough, cos HE did it and nobody else did. We are all individuals, we all have habits and traits that annoy each other, but that is no reason to keep plugging away trying to convince the unconvincable. We all are arrogant enough to believe WE are right, but I for one do give credence to other points of view. (And I cannot spell either! :-)) So. lets bury the hatchet, preferably not in each other and try to find a future that will benifit all. I feel sure Bob will publish details of any new hardware provided it actually exists and can be bought. So lets stop wondering about who WCC is, etc. I do not give a monkey's gaul bladder, who is Samboss? Who cares as long as he is constructive. What about free speech? Use some debating news group for that. This place was created to keep SAM alive, at present it is killing it I feel. And lets see this DOS SAM emulator before I get too bored and unsubscribe like Nev. Warthog -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 11:43:37 1996 Subject: Re: The final word... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 11:41:54 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <19059@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Gaff Sam Dept." at Oct 20, 96 08:52:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct20.114203+0100_met.46973-85+28@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 466 Lines: 15 > > In message <199610181457.PAA12691@aron.cs.cf.ac.uk> D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) writes: > > unsubscribe sam-users-flame@nvg.unit.no > > > And I thought I was the one with a visual impairment! > Even I saw the message about where to send these messages... > > Brian > (David Ledbury for Prime Minister) Read it again -- in particular the name of the mailing list... I think DMZ is saying that he wants an end to the arguments on here ;) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 11:45:13 1996 Subject: Re: Looking back in anger... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 11:43:20 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <19083@bgserv.demon.co.uk> from "Arguments R Us" at Oct 20, 96 09:39:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct20.114333+0100_met.46973-89+25@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 233 Lines: 9 > And lets see this DOS SAM emulator before I get too bored and > unsubscribe like Nev. Have you downloaded Sim Coupe yet ? Well worth doing so if you haven't.... Best place to get it is: ftp.nvg.unit.no, in the SAM archive Simon From imc Sun Oct 20 13:00:17 1996 Subject: Re: Memory? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:00:17 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <961019084742_546602142@emout15.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Oct 19, 96 08:47:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 261 Lines: 7 On Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:47:45 -0400, BrenchleyR@aol.com said: > Need a new ASIC? Give me a ring on 01452 412572. Since you sell them, perhaps you can tell me how to extract the darn thing from a Sam. I tried a couple of months ago and failed completely. imc From imc Sun Oct 20 13:01:53 1996 Subject: Re: It's about WCC.... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:01:53 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "A.S. Collier" at Oct 18, 96 04:52:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 255 Lines: 8 On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:52:22 +0100 (BST), A.S. Collier said: > I don't think we'd ever find an /unbiased/ observer re David Ledbury. I think I would consider myself pretty much unbiased. Unfortunately I also haven't a clue what's been going on... imc From imc Sun Oct 20 13:11:04 1996 Subject: Re: Memory? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:11:04 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610181639.RAA14058@ugs2> from "Diggory Gray" at Oct 18, 96 05:39:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 709 Lines: 20 On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:39:44 +0100, Diggory Gray said: > 6 ugs2% xmkmf -a > usage: /usr/openwin/bin/xmkmf [top_of_sources_pathname [current_directory]] I suppose you could try it without the -a. Then you might want to "make depend" as well. Actually, the real problem is that you are using the OpenWindows version of xmkmf instead of the X11 one. I don't suppose you could rectify this? > 7 ugs2% make xcoupe > rm -f xcoupe > gcc -o xcoupe -O -R:/usr/openwin/lib -L/usr/openwin/lib -lsocket -lnsl -lXext -lX11 For some strange reason it's trying to build the program without including any of it! This probably has to do with first problem. Well at least we now know you are on Solaris... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 13:13:36 1996 Subject: Re: Memory? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:11:57 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9610201200.AA08202@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Oct 20, 96 01:00:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct20.131225+0100_met.46973-88+29@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 459 Lines: 16 > > On Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:47:45 -0400, BrenchleyR@aol.com said: > > Need a new ASIC? Give me a ring on 01452 412572. > > Since you sell them, perhaps you can tell me how to extract the darn thing > from a Sam. I tried a couple of months ago and failed completely. > > imc Oh, just stick a needle into one of the corners and prise it up... a crochet needle is best, but any should do. Either that or a jeweller's screwdriver. Worked for me :) Simon From imc Sun Oct 20 13:15:16 1996 Subject: Re: Re. It's about WCC..... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:15:16 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "A.S. Collier" at Oct 18, 96 06:08:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 239 Lines: 7 On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:08:50 +0100 (BST), A.S. Collier said: > Well, I wouldn't have been able to answer this, obviously, since like I > said it had started before I rejoined. So you didn't see my message about sam-users logs then? imc From imc Sun Oct 20 13:21:20 1996 Subject: Re: When is a ? not a ? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:21:20 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610181801.SAA05829@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Oct 18, 96 06:01:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 456 Lines: 14 On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:01:09 GMT, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com said: > You can put a question mark at the end of any sentence, but that does not > make it a question. What rot. It is incorrect to put a question mark at the end of anything that is not a question. Also, you can turn a statement into a question just by putting a question mark after it. You can turn a statement into a question just by putting a question mark after it? Yes, you can. imc From imc Sun Oct 20 13:22:19 1996 Subject: Re: Echo Stats : 12 Oct 1996 - 18 Oct 1996 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:22:19 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610182032.VAA05370@mail.enterprise.net> from "Dave Whitmore" at Oct 18, 96 09:27:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 289 Lines: 8 On 18 Oct 1996 21:27:10, Dave Whitmore said: > | 1. # Formatpub@aol.com ... .......... .......1729 ... 5.1% .. 34 | > | 2. # Ian.collier@comlab.ox. .......... ........903 .. 13.3% .. 22 | Surely not. What have I been going on about then? I'm not even in the flame war! :-) imc From imc Sun Oct 20 13:30:12 1996 Subject: Re: Re. It's about WCC..... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:30:12 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <961019084743_546602145@emout17.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Oct 19, 96 08:47:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 402 Lines: 9 On Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:47:44 -0400, BrenchleyR@aol.com said: > If David Ledbury is not involved in the running of 'Persona' then why was he > on the stand all the time at Wetherby? Huh? One might as well ask "If Bob Brenchley is not involved in the running of 'West Coast' then why were their products on his stand all the time at Gloucester?" (but I won't because we've been through this...). imc From imc Sun Oct 20 13:31:54 1996 Subject: Re: Memory? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:31:54 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <96Oct20.131225+0100_met.46973-88+29@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> from "Simon Cooke" at Oct 20, 96 01:11:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 310 Lines: 9 On Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:11:57 +0100 (BST), Simon Cooke said: > Oh, just stick a needle into one of the corners and prise it up... a > crochet needle is best, but any should do. Either that or a jeweller's > screwdriver. Yeah, I tried something like that. No dice. Didn't try a crochet needle though. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 14:51:22 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 14:50:06 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@indigo.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Reply to 17/10(20:31) message A.S.Collier. In-Reply-To: <199610181801.SAA05838@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 500 Lines: 15 > Question: What is the difference between running a business selling a disk > based mag and running any other business? > > Answer: Mags don't count as businesses to Mr Collier. Absolutely right in this case. The magazines were not businesses. On the other hand, if a company existed with the sole purpose of selling magazines then perhaps that would be called a business. But, in this case, the one business, Phoenix, sold both the magazines (and the software). One (1) business. Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 15:40:55 1996 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:27:40 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Partington To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: <199610181457.PAA12691@aron.cs.cf.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 44 Lines: 5 unsubscribe sam-users-flame@nvg.unit.no From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 15:59:39 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 15:58:05 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@indigo.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: It's about WCC..... (Actually this one isn't) In-Reply-To: <961019084743_546602145@emout17.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4264 Lines: 93 On Sat, 19 Oct 1996 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > If I reply to a letter that comes in, I do not expect to have to quote, > verbatum, large parts of the text from the incoming letter in any reply I > write. Why should email be any different? Because you probably don't recieve fifty snail-mail messages a day. Also because it is much easier to keep track of personal correspondance than the more general messages (which are common here - this is a mailing list, after all). Besides, a few lines per reply is almost always enough. I can't think anybody would object to *just enough* quotes to establish context. I would point out that the question you asked here wasn't numbered either. Nevertheless I suppose you expected a response to it. > I said I would answer any questions that I can. I expected to get a list of > questions, and yes it would be easier if you numbered them because that would > make it easier for others to follow as I am not prepared to constantly > include old text in the way I have had to so far. You're doing it now. > >From that point on the message gets into the area of Revelation Software. I Nope, it also went into: - Not-really insulting David Ledbury - Finding examples of me incorporating personal comments or innuendo into my questions - Whether anybody said Mike Roberts worked for MGT - Nigel's disk And although the last one is probably sorted out, the first three are not. The second, I think, is particularly important because I am appalled at the very suggestion. At the risk of going over old ground: (but hopefully clearer this time) Sure, I disagree with some (most) of your policies and actions, but I HAVE GOT NOTHING PERSONAL AGAINST YOU. After all, we've only really met once. All I know is a) what some people have written or said about you (and not all of that was bad), and b) what you have mailed on this list, for the short time I've been subscribed this term. Unfortunately, some of the infomation from a) and b) has been conflicting. Sorry if I ask you to substantiate things you say, but I try not to take ANYTHING - from either side - at face value. When people were asking questions, I joined the ALREADY EXISTING debate with a short list of questions which (I thought) were clearly worded, and were meant to determine which of a) or b) were right in a few fairly specific cases. There were no hidden or double meanings. I was certainly not trying to trick you into any sort of answer which would falsely incriminate you of anything whatsoever. However, good answers would have helped me know that either a) other people were right, or just a likely b) you were right and the other people were wrong. I wasn't asking them to get a particular response, all I wanted was a clear picture. I'm sorry if that appeared in any other way. Since then, the mails have generally been replies to the points YOU raised. Suddenly the conversation (yes, I do consider it is a conversation) threw up your seemingly personal grudge against David Ledbury. Perhaps we have all allowed this to become somewhat overheated since. If it does turn out that you 'run' the Sam (this is one of the largest gray areas), I'll stress now that I DON'T MIND provided we know about it. It would be a great advantage that, when discussing new projects, people can talk to someone who really is at the top - and know that they are doing so. Also, if people think that mistakes are being made (some do) then by talking to somebody in control, the mistakes can be fixed before damage is done. We want to know who is in charge; not to embarrass whoever that person is, but to HELP THE SAM. This, I think, should be the aim of anybody subscribed to this list. If you can see my point, argue it with whoever your confidential agreement is with. Perhaps you can get him(/her?) to change his() mind, and this can be sorted out once and for all. That's all that we're asking. I am not sorry to have asked the questions. I am sorry that the subsequent mails seem to have taken a personal turn, this certainly was not my intention and I would say that nor was it my fault, but that is history now. If the matters of policy can be sorted out properly, maybe we can talk about something a bit more constructive. Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 16:03:21 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: When is a ? not a ? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:01:41 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <9610201221.AA08300@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk" at Oct 20, 96 01:21:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 378 Lines: 10 > What rot. It is incorrect to put a question mark at the end of anything > that is not a question. Also, you can turn a statement into a question > just by putting a question mark after it. So, you're saying it's *not* incorrect to put a question mark at the end of anything that is not a question? It ceases to be not-a-question, but the practice isn't incorrect?! -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 16:09:14 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:07:47 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@indigo.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: When is a ? not a ? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 556 Lines: 25 On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Andrew M Gale wrote: > So, you're saying it's *not* incorrect to put a question mark > at the end of anything that is not a question? It ceases to > be not-a-question, but the practice isn't incorrect?! There is no question about it. When the question mark is added, the statement ALWAYS becomes a question. If you want it to be a question, then that is fine. But if you didn't want it to be a question, your use of the '?' would be incorrect. And if you think THAT was complicated, try this old one: "I am lying" Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 16:09:55 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: It's about WCC..... (Actually this one isn't) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:08:33 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "A.S. Collier" at Oct 20, 96 03:58:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 324 Lines: 10 > [Of B.B.] All I know is a)..... > ..... and b) what you have mailed on this list, for the > short time I've been subscribed this term. And all that most of us know of you is what you've been mailing on this list.... and would it surprise you to find that you seem like a right argumentative little so-and-so? :-) -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 16:12:46 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: When is a ? not a ? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:11:30 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "A.S. Collier" at Oct 20, 96 04:07:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 268 Lines: 10 > And if you think THAT was complicated, try this old one: > "I am lying" > That's not complicated. That's impossible!! I had a book on paradoxes which went on about things like circularity and vicious circularity and so on... does your head in after a while. -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 16:24:00 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:21:45 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: It's about WCC..... (Actually this one isn't) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 311 Lines: 13 On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Andrew M Gale wrote: > been mailing on this list.... and would it surprise > you to find that you seem like a right argumentative > little so-and-so? :-) Oh, probably not. But you will admit that a certain other so-and-so has been giving at least as much as he's been getting! Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 16:26:43 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: It's about WCC..... (Actually this one isn't) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:25:07 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "A.S. Collier" at Oct 20, 96 04:21:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 283 Lines: 9 > > been mailing on this list.... and would it surprise > > you to find that you seem like a right argumentative > > little so-and-so? :-) > > Oh, probably not. But you will admit that a certain other so-and-so has > been giving at least as much as he's been getting! > No comment! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 16:32:47 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:31:46 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: It's about WCC..... (Actually this one isn't) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 81 Lines: 6 On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Andrew M Gale wrote: > No comment! So why tell us, then? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 16:47:13 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 15:45:23 GMT Message-Id: <199610201545.PAA17971@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 700 Lines: 27 On Oct 19, 1996 14:24:35, '"Appendixless-boy .." ' wrote: >On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, MR P R WALKER wrote: > >> Nope - it's the initials of FormatPub@aol.com. It's usually standard to >> do this so people don't get mixed up. (Netscape mail doesn't, for some >> strange reason.) > >Netscape, non-standard, surely not .... > >All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... > >Lee. > -- Well it appears Netscape do no add the letters. Nor, from Bob's query, does AOL. Pipeline does not either and neither did my system at uni. So is it "usual standard"? Still, now we all know, there is no problem. Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 16:47:13 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 15:45:32 GMT Message-Id: <199610201545.PAA17978@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Memory? From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 546 Lines: 20 On Oct 18, 1996 17:39:44, 'Diggory Gray (PWE) ' wrote: >... >Would it be possible to use virtual memory for the Quazar sound card, by >compressing the data to increase the rate of data transfer for long samples >etc? >... >Diggory -- As I understand virtual memory then yes. By putting together blocks of memory 'images' on the hard drive you could then flip them in by machine code. If you had two pages allocated them you could be loading one while the other was playing. Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 16:48:21 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:47:10 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: Sam-users Subject: *Off* the warpath for a change Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2547 Lines: 52 Just to prove I can talk about other things and keep my mind on more than one conversation.... A while ago (maybe a week) I said I intended to upload a few of my old programs to nvg, and that to those I would add a boot-sector loader to aid the transfer of files. Nobody wrote back saying "No! Don't do that!", so I have written said program. All in one sector, it contains: up to about 200 bytes of text to print on the screen during loading, code to actually load the file at the proper address (a file of any length, even if it covers the second side of the disk) and then call the execute address. So when you want to use a file, just get it onto a Sam disk as the first file in the directory, and then boot that disk. Simple. There's no need to worry about the real start page, the real execute address, or even I suppose the length (but it will obviously be no good if you save the file too short) IE There is no fiddling about on the PC end because the file is already compressed on the Sam, and no fiddling about of the Sam after transferring the file with KEdisk or whatever. There is one disadvantage, namely that as described you can only have one file on the disk. However, it is a simple matter to extract from the boot-sector the length of the program, the intended start address and the intended execute address - so the file can then be saved properly onto a Sam disk as a self-executing file. (Although the idea of the boot-sector was to cut out that sort of fiddling) All that remains for me to do now is to add this sector to the start of a few programs and then I can upload them. Suggestions will be welcomed (if I brought the disk with me to Cambridge) Also I've found someone using Linux who's tested XCoupe (on a 120MHz 486) It works, but tediously slowly. Also the disk problem is exactly the same as previously described - I still think it's the track skewing that throws up the problems. I noticed in the release notes that the disk drive's "read track" is not implemented. Is it likely that this will get fixed? (SamMines uses that when loading the high score table) but fortunately the Bootsector loader mentioned above uses only the usual sector reads, so should probably be okay on the emulator. He also had an unzipper (which the other computers round here don't) so now I have a little more of an idea what is up there. Unfortunately, some of the resulting .PAK files refuse to work. SWISS.PAK is one of the titles which I remember didn't come out right. Has anyone had more success with it? Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 16:54:22 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 15:52:08 GMT Message-Id: <199610201552.PAA18117@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: It's about WCC..... (Actually this one isn't) From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 248 Lines: 14 On Oct 20, 1996 16:31:46, '"A.S. Collier" ' wrote: > >On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Andrew M Gale wrote: >> No comment! > >So why tell us, then? > -- Because "no comment" is a valid comment. Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 17:20:25 1996 Message-Id: <199610201620.RAA01542@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: ASCII, Phones & flames Date: 20 Oct 1996 17:13:06 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2226 Lines: 32 Hi Does anyone know if there are any good ASCII word processors for SAM? What's the best one? PD? Shareware? Where from and how much? What is the format of such suggested WP? Does it use Code's 13, 10, one or the other or both for line termination? It is easy to strip trailing spaces from Tasword & Outwrite text files. There are quite a few utils to do this, but I've yet to come across one that will turn ASCII into Tas/OutW 64 column text. That being, stripping the codes 10, 13 or both and inserting spaces at line ends up to 64 columns. I've written a BASIC effort to do the job but it is /slow/ and usually screws up when it find's other none printable characters (the ASCII must be formatted to under 64 columns in the first place b4 transferring to SAM - IYKWIM?). Does anyone know of any utilities to do that job, or similar? BTW, lots of phone calls lately! :) Bob phoned yesterday and I'm pleased to say that talking helps enormously. There isn't really any reason for anyone to worry about any cloak and dagger secrecy surrounding WCC. Like Bob says, if you want to talk about it and you are really interested, you can phone him and talk. David Ledbury phoned me earlier today. He's okay, he sounds quite happy and he's still a great SAM fan. He said he accepts criticism for cockups in the past. Like him or loath him, he's a character! :) Derek Morgan phoned a few minutes ago to ask if I'd be going to the show next week. Unfortunately, I'll have to miss this one, as I've got some accounts to prepare for the nasty tax man, and they can only be done next weekend - deadline being on the 31st Oct. So this will be the first show I've missed. :(( BTW2, Arguments and flame wars are sometimes entertaining pastimes in public echos, provided they don't drag on too long, or do any real harm. Usually though, in fidonet and certain other discussion groups, there is some form of moderation. I take it that SAM Users is a self-moderating group? Has someone got the power to unsubscribe and ban users? Are there any rules at all? Just so I'll know.. :) :) :) Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore email - davewhitmore@enterprise.net DALMATION BBS. 1ST4SAM. 01744 614160. Sat 12 noon till 12 midnight. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 18:05:27 1996 Message-Id: <199610201704.SAA05172@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: *Off* the warpath for a change Date: 20 Oct 1996 17:53:22 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1313 Lines: 34 In a message of 20 Oct 96 A.S. Collier wrote to Sam-users: Hi A.S., ASC> Just to prove I can talk about other things and keep my mind on more ASC> than one conversation.... :)) ASC> aid the transfer of files. Nobody wrote back saying "No! Don't do ASC> that!", so I have written said program. All in one sector, it contains: We were all too busy. Can't remember why tho.. :) Personally I don't care how the files are stored, so long as they aren't TD0: ASC> Sam disk as the first file in the directory, and then boot that disk. ASC> Simple. Sounds like a good (original) idea. :) Paul Walker (you there Paul?) wrote a program to read (and write back) a whole sam disk (from & to) using a PC drive. The file can then be zipped and distributed without any hassle.. and it gives people like me (Amiganut) a chance to do something with the code.. ie write it back to a SAM disk. ASC> some of the resulting .PAK files refuse to work. SWISS.PAK is one of ASC> the titles which I remember didn't come out right. Has anyone had more ASC> success with it? I was going to ask, but you've mentioned it. I've never had any problems with the rumsoft .pak way of doing things - yet. Maybe the archive was corrupt? I know .pak isn't ideal. I wish there was a better way of doing things. Bye, _ |_)ave From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 18:05:27 1996 Message-Id: <199610201704.SAA05159@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: The Black Feet Gang Date: 20 Oct 1996 17:54:51 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1195 Lines: 28 In a message of 20 Oct 96 Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: Hi Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com, >>> Nope - it's the initials of FormatPub@aol.com. It's usually standard to >>> do this so people don't get mixed up. (Netscape mail doesn't, for some >>> strange reason.) >> Netscape, non-standard, surely not .... I think this is getting a bit confusing to those people who haven't really been involved with anything other than internet mail. The quoting of my mailer isn't standard - but it is /a/ standard, usually found in fidonet and on BBS's. I have another email program that I could use as an alternative to this one, but it would be inconvenient, as I'd have to launch two mailers at once; one for usenet and one for email. Then, all my mailing lists would be mixed up with my other email and everything would be in a right mess. :) Sup> Well it appears Netscape do no add the letters. Nor, from Bob's query, Sup> does AOL. Pipeline does not either and neither did my system at uni. So Sup> is it "usual standard"? Unusual - on internet. Sup> Still, now we all know, there is no problem. Hey, look what it's done to you.. Sup! :)) Bye, _ |_)ave From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 20 19:08:25 1996 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 19:07:16 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Wells To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: *Off* the warpath for a change In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 417 Lines: 14 Proposed uploading method sounds fine. > Unfortunately, some > of the resulting .PAK files refuse to work. SWISS.PAK is one of the titles > which I remember didn't come out right. Has anyone had more success with > it? I agree - there's a number of the .PAK files which fail to work. However I can't remember which ones I couldn't get to work, as I was trying to download things the Summer before last. Tim W. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 06:16:47 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 05:57:57 GMT From: Briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk (Brian Gaff Sam Dept.) Message-Id: <19129@bgserv.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Thanks, back later maybe.. X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 193 Lines: 10 I may look back in a month or so when perhaps the messages will be about SAM rather than almost everything else. I need to keep my blood pressure down. Byee.. Brian -- Brian Gaff Sam Dept. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 08:18:02 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 03:16:25 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961021031625_1380902715@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Extracting an ASIC. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 847 Lines: 18 One extraction coming up for Mr Ian Collier. Now open wide, this will not hart me one bit. You can get a proper tool for the job, but forget it - they bend far to easaly. I use a tool that is very like that nasty thing the dentist uses to pick between your teeth, but a good substute is the pointed bit from a school compass. Looking at the asic so the letters are the right way up, you will see that the top right and bottom left corners have slots in them into which you can insert your pointed object. Lever until the chip is out far enough for you to get a screwdriver underneith. Some are more stuburn. so their is another way. Turn the board upsidedown, and take a 1/8" drive and bore a hole through the centre of he large pad of copper underneith the ASIC. One batch of boards were made with holes just for this, but more were not. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 08:18:12 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 03:16:31 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961021031629_1514488763@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: News Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 903 Lines: 22 Had a direct email overnight which has prompted this, for those of you who don't get FORMAT (shame on you). Following much research (over 100 faulty slim-line drives tested) it was found that the 1772 disc controller chip was at fault in less than 5%. As the 1772 is now in short supply, so WCC want to hold onto what stocks they have if they can. It was considered a waste to send one out with every disc upgrade kit that is sold. So, from the begining of September, the disc drive kits are supplied without the 1772 so people can use their existing chip from their old drive. At the same time the prices of the upgrades were reduced by 10UKP. to 19.95 (unassembled) and 29.95 (assembled). If the 1772 is ordered at the same time as the upgrade it will, for the moment, cost the extra 10UKP. However, the next batch are going to cost a lot more. Just thought a few of you may be interested. Bob, From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 10:19:25 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:17:09 +0100 (BST) From: "Appendixless-Boy .." To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ASCII, Phones & flames In-Reply-To: <199610201620.RAA01542@mail.enterprise.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 625 Lines: 14 On 20 Oct 1996, Dave Whitmore wrote: > Bob phoned yesterday and I'm pleased to say that talking helps enormously. There isn't really any reason > for anyone to worry about any cloak and dagger secrecy surrounding WCC. Like Bob says, if you want to talk > about it and you are really interested, you can phone him and talk. I've stayed out of this so-far, but if Bob's prepared to explain things on the phone to each of us personally why doesn't he just explain it here and save us the huge phone bills that frankly I can't afford .... All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... Lee. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 10:38:53 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:26:42 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Handley To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: When is a ? not a ? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 810 Lines: 21 > > So, you're saying it's *not* incorrect to put a question mark > > at the end of anything that is not a question? It ceases to > > be not-a-question, but the practice isn't incorrect?! > > There is no question about it. > > When the question mark is added, the statement ALWAYS becomes a question. > If you want it to be a question, then that is fine. But if you didn't want > it to be a question, your use of the '?' would be incorrect. > > And if you think THAT was complicated, try this old one: AAARRRGGHHHH!!! I DON'T CARE, I HONESTLY DO NOT CARE! I DON'T THINK ANYONE DOES REALLY! ??????????????????????????????? I've had to sit and read through 100 pointless messages, and its annoying. I'm sorry I've made that 101 pointless messages...I'll think of something SAM-related next time... Dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 10:52:15 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 05:49:02 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961021054901_1448015665@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ASCII word-processors. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1069 Lines: 24 In a message dated 20/10/96 16:20:07, davewhitmore@enterprise.net asked about ASCII word processors on SAM. I have to transfer lots of files from Spectrum and SAM to the PC to use in FORMAT. The only files that come over without any need for conversion/intervention/changes are those from Notepad - the simple word-processor in DRiVER. On the PC I think I am write in saying that a true ASCII file is one where there is a CHR$13 and a CHR$10 at the end of each line. The ASCII import filter on AMI-PRO (the wordpro I use) offers the options of both characters at the end of a line, only the CHR$13 at the end of a line, and also the option of only having one or both at the paragraph ends only. This latter option is the one that most modern PC word-processors seem to use. Notepad is not the most advanced writing tool there is. But if you need to have a plain ASCII file for transfer to the PC or another machine, then you could always use the program you are happy with and use Notepad to convert the file, something it does quite well. Hope this helps. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 11:02:17 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:55:13 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: The Max(ell) factor Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 412 Lines: 13 120 messages *sigh*. Unbelievable S/N ratio - I'm surprised imc/Brian haven't hit critical mass... :) On the subject of floppy discs, has anybody had any problems with Maxell discs 'sticking' in the drive (needing a good yank with tweezers (sp?) to get them loose. It's not labels or anything like that but the discs do seem to be thicker than others - but without a vernier scale I don't really know. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 11:08:31 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:06:18 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Paveley To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Max(ell) factor In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1215 Lines: 28 On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Dan Doore wrote: > On the subject of floppy discs, has anybody had any problems with > Maxell discs 'sticking' in the drive (needing a good yank with > tweezers (sp?) to get them loose. It's not labels or anything like > that but the discs do seem to be thicker than others - but without > a vernier scale I don't really know. Ah! and I thought it was my drive being dodgy! I have quite a collection of disks, most pop out okay, but some seem to get stuck with them staying just inside the drive... Not sure about brands though, sure out of a box of the same brand some will, and some won't.... Maybe it is my dodgy drive after all ;) Tim ....@/ Oh yes, sorry if anyone tries to get my web pages over the weekend, mono.org's internet access was shut down for upgrading which meant they won't have been available. I did mean to say before hand, but then, it'd have probably been jsut deleted by accident along with the rest of the postings ;) .........................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - http://dplinux.sund.ac.uk/~unc/ Staff of the Monochrome BBS - http://www.mono.org/ Owner of a Sam Coupe - http://www.mono.org/~unc/Coupe/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 11:42:09 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:30:22 +0100 From: D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) Message-Id: <199610211030.LAA11200@weroch.cs.cf.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: OUuTQl0Pe/vrwwBVR6OLNQ== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 342 Lines: 18 > From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 01:25:53 1996 > Delivery-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 01:25:53 +0100 > Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:27:40 +0100 (BST) > From: Robert Partington > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > > unsubscribe sam-users-flame@nvg.unit.no > > What? DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 11:42:09 1996 Message-Id: <199610211038.MAA12241@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman Subject: SimCoupe and new project To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 12:38:00 METDST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3233 Lines: 57 Hi Guys and Gals (and whatever SamsBoss is :) Well I've just got back from a weeks holiday (well not counting the two afternoons I had to come in to teach 1st years FORTRAN 90 - but such is life in academia). The X11 version of SimCoupe is now up and running, I've just got to sort out the files into a distribution and then I'll put up a source distribution. The X11 version uses the same (new) display driver as the console version, as well as all the other changes from XCoupe 0.7, including Ian Colliers xz80 Z80 kernel. The console version of SimCoupe still doesn't have any command line options, the X11 version uses the X resource data base, which needs to be replaced for the non X version. Of course the X version of the code does have options. To answer a question given by someone in this list, SimCoupe does support the external memory - up to 4Mb. This is selectable in the X version, but for the boot/root setup I set it to 0 to conserve memory - which is already being used for the Ramdisk. And Andrew (Collier) - Read and write track are not implemented in the VL emulation, it's something I need to do. Also, while I was ferreting around the code, I found a little bug in the disk io - which might have been the source is some of the problems people have been experiencing - but not the main problem, which would seem to be due to two different types of low level format of SAM disks. Is this due to the old/new disk drives I wonder. Anybody? Back to the minor bug. When SimCoupe starts up it checks the two drive connections. For real disks (on Linux) I do some UNIX trickery to find what type of disk is present - SAM or DD 720K, now if there was no disk in the drive it should have put up a report and then assumed it was a SAM disk - and carried on. Unfortunately there was a stray "return;" in the source, which caused SimCoupe to ignore the drive, Whoops. The upshot was that if you started up the emulator with no disk in the drive, after putting in a SAM disk and trying to use it would result in a "loading error". Right, changing the subject. Over the weekend I finally managed to sit down at a (real) SAM for a few hours, and started a new project - a Driver toolkit. Basically its a set of header and source files which allow Driver applications to be written without having to deal with all the low level stuff such as the hand shaking code between Driver and the application. Personally I really like Driver, its very professionally coded. If such a toolkit existed, would you lot write some applications? Allan -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Now available! XCoupe, the one and only SAM Coupe emulator | | *** http://www.hep.ucl.ac.uk/~ajs/xcoupe *** | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ | Allan Skillman | "There are five flavours of resons, the | | HEPP Group | elementary particles of magic : up, down, | | University College London | sideways, sex-appeal and peppermint." | | Email : ajs@hep.ucl.ac.uk | - Terry Pratchett (Lords and Ladies) | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 11:42:38 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:37:51 +0100 From: D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) Message-Id: <199610211037.LAA11205@weroch.cs.cf.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Max(ell) factor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: bXuJMA7C9jHxWB1Y6DTV+w== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1615 Lines: 35 > > On the subject of floppy discs, has anybody had any problems with > > Maxell discs 'sticking' in the drive (needing a good yank with > > tweezers (sp?) to get them loose. It's not labels or anything like > > that but the discs do seem to be thicker than others - but without > > a vernier scale I don't really know. > > Ah! and I thought it was my drive being dodgy! I have quite a collection > of disks, most pop out okay, but some seem to get stuck with them staying > just inside the drive... Not sure about brands though, sure out of a box > of the same brand some will, and some won't.... > > Maybe it is my dodgy drive after all ;) Some cheaper ( and some not so cheap ) discs seem to have the metal bit made out of a much thinner, more flexible metal. I've noticed that these tend to bend outwards and get the disc stuck in the drive. Could this be the problem in this case? [ This message was supplied from the home for sad gits who spend half their time staring at discs when they should be working ] DMZ --- From imc Mon Oct 21 11:45:32 1996 Subject: Re: ASCII, Phones & flames To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:45:32 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610201620.RAA01542@mail.enterprise.net> from "Dave Whitmore" at Oct 20, 96 05:13:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1531 Lines: 28 On 20 Oct 1996 17:13:06, Dave Whitmore said: > Does anyone know if there are any good ASCII word processors for SAM? What exactly is an ASCII word processor? If you just want to type some text in then FSE is adequate (it's on Syncytium). :-) Unfortunately I configured it so that you can't get rid of the line numbers, so text wider than 56 columns tends to look a bit ugly. On the other hand, you can make the lines as wide as you want within reason. > What is the format of such suggested WP? Does it use Code's 13, 10, one or the other or both for line termination? If this line is anything to go by, that's irrelevant because you'll just type all the text on one line... It puts 13 at the end of each line. > It is easy to strip trailing spaces from Tasword & Outwrite text files. There are quite a few utils to do this, but I've yet to come across one that will turn ASCII into Tas/OutW 64 column text. That being, stripping the codes 10, 13 or both and inserting spaces at line ends up to 64 columns. I've written a BASIC effort to do the job but it is /slow/ and usually screws up when it find's other none printable characters (the ASCII must be formatted to under 64 columns in the first place b4 transferring to SAM - IYKWIM?). > Does anyone know of any utilities to do that job, or similar? I believe there's one on Syncytium, but it has a small bug... > Has someone got the power to unsubscribe and ban users? Yes, anyone can unsubscribe anyone else by forging an unsubscribe message from them. :-) imc From imc Mon Oct 21 11:50:02 1996 Subject: Re: *Off* the warpath for a change To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:50:02 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "A.S. Collier" at Oct 20, 96 04:47:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 676 Lines: 16 On Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:47:10 +0100 (BST), A.S. Collier said: > However, it is a simple matter to extract from the > boot-sector the length of the program, the intended start address and the > intended execute address - so the file can then be saved properly onto a > Sam disk as a self-executing file. (Although the idea of the boot-sector > was to cut out that sort of fiddling) Or you could just tell us what they are so that fiddling is not necessary... > I noticed in the release notes that the disk drive's "read track" is not > implemented. Is it likely that this will get fixed? (SamMines uses that > when loading the high score table) Why?! imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 11:50:11 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:45:20 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Paveley To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Max(ell) factor In-Reply-To: <199610211037.LAA11205@weroch.cs.cf.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 634 Lines: 17 On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, D M Zambonini wrote: > Some cheaper ( and some not so cheap ) discs seem to have the metal bit made > out of a much thinner, more flexible metal. I've noticed that these tend to bend > outwards and get the disc stuck in the drive. Could this be the problem in this > case? Nope :-p I do have some of those, it's not really a case of the disk getting stuck, just it not popping out as far as it ought to... Tim ....@/ .........................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - http://dplinux.sund.ac.uk/~unc/ Owner of a Sam Coupe - http://www.mono.org/~unc/Coupe/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 11:57:30 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:51:31 +0100 (BST) From: "Appendixless-Boy .." To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ASCII, Phones & flames In-Reply-To: <9610211045.AA00708@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 283 Lines: 12 On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > Yes, anyone can unsubscribe anyone else by forging an unsubscribe message > from them. :-) > I think he probably meant _legally_ ... ;) All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... Lee. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 11:57:31 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: The Max(ell) factor To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:49:57 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "Tim Paveley" at Oct 21, 96 11:45:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 219 Lines: 7 I seem to recall having problems with trying to use certain 2Mb discs on the SAM - not getting stuck, but it just not liking them. Does this make any sense? But then my exploding Jam didn't make sense either.... -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 12:18:05 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:15:24 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ASCII, Phones & flames - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 952 Lines: 25 > It is easy to strip trailing spaces from Tasword & Outwrite text > files. There are quite a few utils to do this, but I've yet to > come across one that will turn ASCII into Tas/OutW 64 column text. > That being, stripping the codes 10, 13 or both and inserting > spaces at line ends up to 64 columns. I've written a BASIC effort > to do the job but it is /slow/ and usually screws up when it > find's other none printable characters (the ASCII must be > formatted to under 64 columns in the first place b4 transferring > to SAM - IYKWIM?). I use Driver Notepad to do ASCII->64col conversions and WordMaster for everything else since you can strip all non-printable ASCII except the 'acceptable' codes like CR, TAB etc. > > Has someone got the power to unsubscribe and ban users? > > Yes, anyone can unsubscribe anyone else by forging an unsubscribe > message from them. :-) Like the 'Ronan The Barbarian' in the monster .SIG case :)) Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 13:21:52 1996 Message-Id: <199610211236.NAA26562@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: The Max(ell) factor Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:37:35 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 426 Lines: 9 It sometimes happens with cheaper disks, but then there are cheap disks (bought by weight rather than numbers) that never gives problems. And I don't agree with the metal bits, I have disks with plastic lids and sometimes these cause problems to. Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] (visiting the up-coming Sam-show in Glouchester) Red leader here: watch out we are running out of diskspace real soon! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 14:08:09 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:54:41 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: *Off* the warpath for a change In-Reply-To: <9610211050.AA00737@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1704 Lines: 38 On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > > However, it is a simple matter to extract from the > > boot-sector the length of the program, the intended start address and the > > intended execute address - so the file can then be saved properly onto a > > Sam disk as a self-executing file. (Although the idea of the boot-sector > > was to cut out that sort of fiddling) > > Or you could just tell us what they are so that fiddling is not necessary... Well yes, but then you need twice as many files on the nvg archive. One would be a .TXT and contain some numbers you either had to print out or write down. And you still do need to fiddle (if you can't write directly to the Sam disk, that is) because KE_Disk makes everything start at one address and ingores any call address (not altogether surprising really) So you'd always need to load the file at the right address then resave it with the right address, length and call address. If the infomation was contained in the file, then a simple one-line Basic program would be enough to save out ANY samboot file. > > I noticed in the release notes that the disk drive's "read track" is not > > implemented. Is it likely that this will get fixed? (SamMines uses that > > when loading the high score table) > > Why?! Hang on, I got slightly confused for a moment. Actually I didn't use read track, I used a multiple sector read. Sorry about that (so the omission doesn't need fixing Allan - unless another program uses it. Though it would probably be nice to be able to format disks to Sam format) For latest versions of XCoupe, am I better looking at NVG or your Website? (Or do you update both at once?) Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 14:08:09 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:57:11 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ASCII, Phones & flames In-Reply-To: <9610211045.AA00708@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 404 Lines: 14 On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > text in then FSE is adequate (it's on Syncytium). :-) Unfortunately I Syncytium is available for about a tenner, from Persona. (Hey, no point mentioning products if we aren't going to advertise them) > I believe there's one on Syncytium, but it has a small bug... Yes there is, and yes it does. (You can soon fix the output though) Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 14:08:09 1996 Message-Id: <199610211328.OAA07717@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Small mistake Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:30:07 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 188 Lines: 4 Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] (not visiting the up-coming Sam-show in Glouchester, sorry) Red leader here: watch out we are running out of diskspace real soon! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 14:45:53 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:43:29 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9610211343.AA04533@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ASCII, Phones & flames X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 443 Lines: 14 > On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > > > text in then FSE is adequate (it's on Syncytium). :-) Unfortunately I > > Syncytium is available for about a tenner, from Persona. (Hey, no point > mentioning products if we aren't going to advertise them) > > > I believe there's one on Syncytium, but it has a small bug... > > Yes there is, and yes it does. (You can soon fix the output though) What is Syncytium? -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 15:16:38 1996 From: Stephen L Harding Message-Id: <199610211354.OAA13902@harrier.fen.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: The Max(ell) factor To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:54:18 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "Tim Paveley" at Oct 21, 96 11:45:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 660 Lines: 15 > > Some cheaper ( and some not so cheap ) discs seem to have the metal bit made > > out of a much thinner, more flexible metal. I've noticed that these tend to bend > > outwards and get the disc stuck in the drive. Could this be the problem in this > > case? > Nope :-p That isn't causing it- I experimented when I first encountered the problem on my Sam. The disks are raised up out of the drive apparently correctly, but they simply don't slide out. I have tried to make the spring in the drive more powerfull by coiling it around again but it hasn't helped. It sounds like there are a lot of us with she same problem; how about a count a hands? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 15:28:54 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:25:48 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961021102547_1280388423@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: *Off* the warpath for a change Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 451 Lines: 11 Re: Read Track command on discs. There is a little known bug in the 1772 disc contoller chip that means the Read Track command in unreliable. If a certain bit pattern shows up in the track being read then the 1772 halts the read early (but does not tell you). This bug (which Nev Young found soon after the PLUS D came out in '87) means that few programs will be using it - unless the programmer has been very, very lucky during his testing. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 15:29:13 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:27:42 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@indigo.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Max(ell) factor In-Reply-To: <199610211354.OAA13902@harrier.fen.bris.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 331 Lines: 12 On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Stephen L Harding wrote: > It sounds like there are a lot of us with she same problem; how about a > count a hands? It only happenned to me when I had removed the shutter from a disk which had got mangled in the post. Does the spring of the stutter in the disk help push the disk out of the drive? Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 15:42:26 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:39:32 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ASCII, Phones & flames In-Reply-To: <9610211343.AA04533@asmal.edh-net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1087 Lines: 27 On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Frode Tenneboe wrote: > What is Syncytium? The word Syncytium means 'a multi-nucleated cell' and is the name I gave to a collection of eighteen programs (+ a few related bits & pieces) which were written by me, Ian or both. The package is available from Persona so buy a copy next Saturday if Malcolm decided to get a stand, or write to: Persona. c/o Malcolm MacKenzie, 31 Ashwood Drive, Brandlesholme, Bury The programs are: GAMES; Pipetris, Atoms, On the Tiles, Citadels, Othello, Connect4, Rockfall, Rockfall2, Panic, Terrapin, Asteroids, Mex UTILITIES; FSE, PLAY, Tape Labeller, Stereogram DEMOS; Life, Sensible Most were written for the Sam, although a few of the games are Spectrum conversions. Earlier versions of some programs had been featured on FRED, but are now majorly improved. Only a few of the programs could be described as space-fillers, and in particular Pipetris, On the Tiles, Play and Life stand out as being well worth your cash. Full details are in Zodiac's double issue 8-9. This was a public service announcement by Andrew Collier From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 16:03:30 1996 Message-Id: <199610211559.QAA11516@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: The Max(ell) factor Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:01:39 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 555 Lines: 16 > On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Stephen L Harding wrote: > > > It sounds like there are a lot of us with she same problem; how about a > > count a hands? > > It only happenned to me when I had removed the shutter from a disk which > had got mangled in the post. Does the spring of the stutter in the disk > help push the disk out of the drive? > > Andrew > Mangled disks now there is another problem that keeps bugging me now then. Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Red leader here: watch out we are running out of diskspace real soon! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 16:16:59 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:06:21 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961021110538_1313946871@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ASCII, Phones & flames Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1845 Lines: 39 In a message dated 21/10/96 09:18:15, Lee Willis wrote:- >I've stayed out of this so-far, but if Bob's prepared to explain things on >the phone to each of us personally why doesn't he just explain it here and >save us the huge phone bills that frankly I can't afford .... > >Lee. > The problem is this Lee. When you talk to someone there is an almost instant feedback, if the wrong thing is said or the wrong idea is received, then it is easy to tell and you can stop and explain exactly what you meant. When writing you do not have this instant feedback, and as we have seen over the last couple of weeks, things can go off at a total tangent. In talking, we all make allowances for slips and little twists of words. We are not a generous when it comes to the written word, and yet quite often, as in this mailing list, the written word is dashed off in almost the same hurry that a reply over the phone would be given - the difference being that an mistake is there in black and white for all eternity. Asking questions by letter is always difficult. Just talk to anyone who runs a magazine help page and they will tell you. More often than not it is what is left out of the letter, that bit that the writer 'assumes' that makes life hard. I admit I find it easier to talk, which is I admit a bit strange for a magazine publisher - but there again I never set out to be a publisher, that just grew on me. I like to think that people who have phoned me, either with a problem or just for a chat, go away feeling happy - there may be odd exceptions, but you can't please everyone. I'm usually in the office Saturday afternoon (and sometimes in the morning as well) so at that point it should be cheap enough for you to ring me if you want. But not next Saturday of course - because everyone should be at the Gloucester Show then. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 16:17:28 1996 Message-Id: <326C033F.79C@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:11:59 -0700 From: MR P R WALKER Organization: Computing Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Missing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 108 Lines: 3 That's another thing I miss from Fido - twit filters. What I wouldn't give for a decent mail system. Sigh. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 16:22:08 1996 Message-Id: <326C04CD.55F3@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:18:37 -0700 From: MR P R WALKER Organization: Computing Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Grow up Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 157 Lines: 3 For gods' sake, you lot - I saw more reasoned debate in Common Room at its lowest than I've seen in this list over the last week or so! Grow up, will you? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 16:26:10 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:22:36 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: More disc nightmares... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1097 Lines: 34 Whilst on the subject of floppies, It appears that recently I've been getting more than (what I think is) an 'acceptable' amount of disc errors. Now, my drive has had a banging for the best part of five years and it may be giving up the ghost sooo... 1. Can I clean the heads with something other than one of those 'brillo-pad' cleaners that some manufacturers pump out? 2. Can I just get a replacement drive and use the same controller dongle bit that lives in the case? 3. How much for a replacement unit, If my memory serves there was a different type of 3.5" that could be fitted. Over to you boys... Dan. BTW: I hope everything will calm down a bit on this list, I'm not sure if I (or my boss) could handle me trawling through 120 messages every morning and the worst bit is that not enough of the original message is deleted, so you get even more irrelevant info in the message. More amusingly, because of my crappy mailer *all* the Samsboss messages get turned into crud whereas others remained unharmed. Spooky ;-) I'd give a knacker for a mailer that could handle threading. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 16:44:11 1996 Message-Id: <326C0A5A.691D@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:42:18 -0700 From: MR P R WALKER Organization: Computing Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 391 Lines: 10 Appendixless-boy .. wrote: > Netscape, non-standard, surely not .... I take it Netscape has a history of being non-standard? :) Seriously, I've yet to find a mailer for the internet which is as nice as the ones I'm used to (which is why my quote ratio is up). If I could collect them as SOUP packets, and had the patience to keep GoldED around with me, thing's would be a lot nicer... From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 16:56:02 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:52:54 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Bouncy Mails Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 293 Lines: 11 What happens at NVG if a sam-users mail is bounced back - does it log that fact that it has bounced? If so, I could finish off my Sam Users list by eliminating all those who don't exist and post it up. Dan. BTW: Does anybody actually *want* to see this list or am I just wasting my time?? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 17:08:57 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:06:44 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) Majordomo results: unsubscribe Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <4FBBE8A3DE8@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 589 Lines: 17 ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- To: 9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK From: majordomo@nvg.unit.no Subject: Majordomo results: unsubscribe Reply-to: majordomo@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:01:53 +0100 -- >>>> unsubscribe **** unsubscribe: '"Dave Hooper" <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK>' is not a member of list 'sam-users'. So lads, what do you make of this?! +-----------------------------------+---------------------+ | Sole survivor in a zero-mind-zone | PION - torus - 1997 | +-----------------------------------+---------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 17:13:25 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:08:03 GMT Subject: Next year's Sam? Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <1B07F2168DC@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 636 Lines: 13 I know this question was discussed before, but now that Bob is on the list (and he is the closest we have to the management in West Coast - the same old question again Bob, if you aren't the general manager of West Coast, who is? Then we can stop troubling you with these questions) - what will happen to Sam next year with these new EMC (I think that's what they are) laws - will the Sam still be produced (which I think I am right in saying would be breaking the law) or can we get round it by a kit form of Sam or something? While I'm mailing, can we cut the petty complaints about spelling and grammar please? Gavin Smith From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 17:37:08 1996 From: Colin Organization: HSH, University of Nottingham To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:06:22 GMT0BST Subject: Help Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <64AC91128@hhn1.hughall.nottingham.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 375 Lines: 12 Look, this is going to piss everyone off, but someone unsuscribe me from this mail list. I've changed address and no matter how many times I send a message to sam-users-request...etc., I keep getting the messages. I'm going to have to pay for this user area if I can't get off. Cheers, Colin P.S. Write to me at pmyljja@pmn1.maths.nottingham.ac.uk in future, fans. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 18:12:32 1996 Message-Id: <326C1EDD.3FCD@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:09:49 -0700 From: MR P R WALKER Organization: Computing Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang References: <199610201545.PAA17971@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 119 Lines: 5 Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > "usual standard"? 'tis on the system I'm used to - maybe not on the internet then. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 18:18:42 1996 Message-Id: <326C203B.41B@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:15:39 -0700 From: MR P R WALKER Organization: Computing Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: *Off* the warpath for a change References: <199610201704.SAA05172@mail.enterprise.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 300 Lines: 8 Dave Whitmore wrote: > Paul Walker (you there Paul?) wrote a program to read (and write back) > a whole sam disk (from & to) using a PC drive. The file can then be > zipped and distribut Yep, I'm here :) Unfortunately the program isn't with me, but I seem to remember uploading it to Dalmation? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 18:33:08 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:28:57 GMT Message-Id: <199610211728.RAA24528@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: More disc nightmares... From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1706 Lines: 59 On Oct 21, 1996 16:22:36, 'Dan Doore ' wrote: >Whilst on the subject of floppies, It appears that recently I've >been getting more than (what I think is) an 'acceptable' amount of >disc errors. Any disc errors are unacceptable. > >Now, my drive has had a banging for the best part of five years and >it may be giving up the ghost sooo... > >1. Can I clean the heads with something other than one of those >'brillo-pad' cleaners that some manufacturers pump out? Nooo, they are the only type I've seen. > >2. Can I just get a replacement drive and use the same controller >dongle bit that lives in the case? > See Bob's email over the weekend. >3. How much for a replacement unit, If my memory serves there was a >different type of 3.5" that could be fitted. > New drive is a standard PC type, cost about 20 quid, less if you go to one of them nice All Formaties shows that go on around this fair and peasent land of ours. >Over to you boys... What about us girls??? > >Dan. > >BTW: I hope everything will calm down a bit on this list, I'm not >sure if I (or my boss) could handle me trawling through 120 messages >every morning and the worst bit is that not enough of the original >message is deleted, so you get even more irrelevant info in the >message. > >More amusingly, because of my crappy mailer *all* the Samsboss >messages get turned into crud whereas others remained unharmed. >Spooky ;-) Now that is just NOT NICE, me being good enough to reply to your posting :-))) > >I'd give a knacker for a mailer that could handle threading. What size needle you need threading??? > > > -- Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 18:33:09 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:28:59 GMT Message-Id: <199610211728.RAA24533@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Bouncy Mails From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 575 Lines: 21 On Oct 21, 1996 16:52:54, 'Dan Doore ' wrote: >What happens at NVG if a sam-users mail is bounced back - does it >log that fact that it has bounced? > >If so, I could finish off my Sam Users list by eliminating all those >who don't exist and post it up. > >Dan. > >BTW: Does anybody actually *want* to see this list or am I just >wasting my time?? > -- Yes we want to see it Dan, provided you are a nice guy and keep it up-to-date. It is handy to have it on file in case I want to contact someone direct. Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 18:33:09 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:29:02 GMT Message-Id: <199610211729.RAA24538@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Next year's Sam? From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1185 Lines: 28 On Oct 21, 1996 17:08:03, '"Gavin Smith" ' wrote: >I know this question was discussed before, but now that Bob is on the >list (and he is the closest we have to the management in West Coast - >the same old question again Bob, if you aren't the general manager of >West Coast, who is? Then we can stop troubling you with these >questions) - what will happen to Sam next year with these new EMC (I >think that's what they are) laws - will the Sam still be produced >(which I think I am right in saying would be breaking the law) or can >we get round it by a kit form of Sam or something? > >While I'm mailing, can we cut the petty complaints about spelling and >grammar please? > The big question is will the UK enforce the EMC regs, several of the electronics mags think that, as there is to be no extra money provided, the trading standards people will not bother. This will bring us in line with the rest of Europe who will not bother either (except Germany of course, twas their idea in the first place). Long articles in the Maplin magazine did try to explain, but much was beyond me. >Gavin Smith -- Samsboss The One And Only From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 18:37:04 1996 Message-Id: <199610211735.SAA06743@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: *Off* the warpath for a change Date: 21 Oct 1996 17:54:20 References: X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 669 Lines: 25 In a message of 20 Oct 96 Tim Wells wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: Hi Tim, TW> I agree - there's a number of the .PAK files which fail to work. TW> However I can't remember which ones I couldn't get to work, as I was TW> trying to download things the Summer before last. Sorry if this has all been gone over before, but I've found that either one of two methods is successful. LOAD "name" CODE 32000 : CALL 32000 LOAD "name" CODE 32000,,32000 With the latter being more successful than the former. Don't know why.. but there you go. :) Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore email - davewhitmore@enterprise.net ..Daddy Whitmore strikes again! :))) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 18:37:05 1996 Message-Id: <199610211735.SAA06732@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: *Off* the warpath for a change Date: 21 Oct 1996 12:05:14 References: X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 631 Lines: 23 In a message of 20 Oct 96 Tim Wells wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: Hi Tim, TW> I agree - there's a number of the .PAK files which fail to work. TW> However I can't remember which ones I couldn't get to work, as I was TW> trying to download things the Summer before last. Sorry if this has all been gone over before, but I've found that either one of two methods is successful. LOAD "name" CODE 32000 : CALL 32000 LOAD "name" CODE 32000,,32000 With the latter being more successful than the former. Don't know why.. but there you go. :) Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore email - davewhitmore@enterprise.net From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 18:55:39 1996 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:53:37 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@navy.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: *Off* the warpath for a change In-Reply-To: <199610211735.SAA06732@mail.enterprise.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 847 Lines: 26 Normally I haven't recieved multiple copies of any sam-users mails, but I did get Dave's twice, the second copy having been written five hours before the first (!) Does that mean some other people got four copies?! On 21 Oct 1996, Dave Whitmore wrote: > Sorry if this has all been gone over before, but I've found that either > one of two methods is successful. > > LOAD "name" CODE 32000 : CALL 32000 > > LOAD "name" CODE 32000,,32000 > > With the latter being more successful than the former. Don't know why.. > but there you go. :) Right, I'll have a go. I'd been using the UNPAK program, which I thought was supposed to cure these problems. The message, in one case, came up "bad file" and in the others "bad checksum". Perhaps the methods above may be useful. NB Why should there be a difference between those two? Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 19:09:57 1996 Posted-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 20:07:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <326BB15F.58BC@pi.net> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 19:22:39 +0200 From: Stefan Drissen X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PI-32 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Max(ell) factor References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1452 Lines: 33 Andrew M Gale wrote: > > I seem to recall having problems with trying to > use certain 2Mb discs on the SAM - not getting stuck, > but it just not liking them. Does this make any > sense? But then my exploding Jam didn't make sense > either.... > -Andy Exploding jam does indeed not make any sense! The problem with the 2Mb discs however is something else. The "newer" SAMs were fitted with high density drives which were bodged into double density mode. Problem being that there IS a high density detector in the drive - if you put a high density disc in the drive half switches to high density mode but the hardware can't handle it (or something similar). The fix is very very simple. Just put a piece of sticky tape (sounding very play schoolish) over the high density hole on the reverse side of the disc and everything will work fine. -- Stefan Drissen _____ ___ _ ___ ______ ___ ____ / _// \| | /\ | \ | _/ | /\ | \ _/ aka \_ \| || |__ / \| / | _|| |__ / \| / _| of ENTROPY /____/\___/\____\____\_|_\ |_| \____\____\_|_\___\ / \ / Email: drissen@pi.net http://www.pi.net/~drissen \ / Zevende Herven 6,5232 JZ 's-HERTOGENBOSCH,The Netherlands \ / telephone: +31-73-6414969 \ --------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 21:51:04 1996 Message-Id: <9610212050.AA11473@mars.cableol.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Neil Maynard To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 21:54:01 +0000 Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 748 Lines: 23 > Appendixless-boy .. wrote: > > > Netscape, non-standard, surely not .... > > I take it Netscape has a history of being non-standard? :) > > Seriously, I've yet to find a mailer for the internet which is as nice as > the ones I'm used to (which is why my quote ratio is up). If I could > collect them as SOUP packets, and had the patience to keep GoldED around > with me, thing's would be a lot nicer... > If you want good e-mail software try Pegasus Mail. Its even Free!!!! E-Mail me directly if you want me to find the web page Neil Maynard +-------------------------------+ |Neil Maynard | |E-Mail: mne2@cableol.co.uk | +-------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 23:25:05 1996 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Dean Liversidge Organization: The Mad House To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 08:26:35 +0000 Subject: Re: First Question For Bob. Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Message-Id: <845934207.17363.0@error.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 678 Lines: 16 Brian Said: > By the way, a Kempston joystick interface works on SAM. Now if > only I could find where I put the darned thing... Why don't you make a sort of SAM-Speccy 'FIX-IT' expansion port converter. I did, but it was just a 'bodge-up', using a couple of edge connectors, and a lot of short lengths of ribbon cable. Bye now, -- Dean Liversidge .__ . , Co-Sysop of Dalmation BBS | \ _.|._ _ _.-+-* _ ._ The First SAM Bulletin Board |__/(_]|[ | )(_] | |(_)[ ) Saturday 12:00pm till midnight. >>>>>>> +44 1744 614150 >>>>>> Sysop: Dave Whitmore From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 23:25:37 1996 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Dean Liversidge Organization: The Mad House To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 08:26:35 +0000 Subject: Re: Duplication Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Message-Id: <845934208.17365.0@error.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1185 Lines: 25 > >But I agree, unless the hard drive becomes a very real option for > >everyone, then no programs will need that much space, because you > >cant do anything with any data that is stored there. > > The hard drive is a real option for everyone. I've got a 120Mb. And > Mr Morgan had a 1Gb at the last Haydock show I went to. The size and price of the hard drive, is not a problem for me, or probably a lot of other people in this group, but the lack of a decent DOS is, unless the new version of the DOS has been written, that makes it more usable. I could quite easily get a 2.5Gb or even a 3.2Gb drive, but they would be more use to me along side the 1.7Gb in my PC. I dont really want to spend 60 UKP in the interface though, maybe i'll get around to building my own, one day, unfortunatly i never seem to get the time. Bye -- Dean Liversidge .__ . , Co-Sysop of Dalmation BBS | \ _.|._ _ _.-+-* _ ._ The First SAM Bulletin Board |__/(_]|[ | )(_] | |(_)[ ) Saturday 12:00pm till midnight. >>>>>>> +44 1744 614150 >>>>>> Sysop: Dave Whitmore From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 23:26:52 1996 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Dean Liversidge Organization: The Mad House To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 08:26:35 +0000 Subject: Re: Hard Drive. Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Message-Id: <845934208.17364.0@error.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2715 Lines: 60 Hi Bob, > >But I agree, unless the hard drive becomes a very real option for > >everyone, then no programs will need that much space, because you > >cant do anything with any data that is stored there. > Just a short question re the above. At what point would you consider > the hard drive to become a "very real option for everyone"? I'm not > trying to start an argument, don't worry, its just that I would like > your perspective on it. Well, i put some in a previous message, but the info on the hard drive i have is from an old review, but the genaral view is that the DOS is not very good, a lot of functions still missing, and others only half working. Also from listening to a few messages, there also seems to be a few incompatability problems with the interface and drive. Mind i should be used to incopatability of hard drives on the PC :-/ The information i'm going on could all be quite wrong, or out of date, if so, then please correct me. If the HD DOS is much like SAM/MASTER DOS then, the syntax will make using it too much like hard work, for example using subdirectories. which are essential to file managment when such large amount of disk space is available. Can the hard drive be booted from, instead of booting a floppy to access the DOS, if so, a waste of time, a boot rom is needed. Also, but not the main thing is the price, 60 UKP for the interface, i'm not trying to sound tight or anything, if i really wanted to i could easily pay that price, but i think that it is a bit expensive just for a simple interface. I do believe that it isn't making much profit even at that, but I would have thought a better price for it would be about half that. Maybe i'm too used to using the PC now, I know that if i could have afforded a HD interface for the Spectrum or Sam when i first had them, then i would have almost died to get one, it wouldn't have mattered if if had to access it in M/C. But now life is so much easier, or so it seems. > If you are coming to the Gloucester show we can always talk about it > then if you would prefer. I'm not sure if i can make this one, a new job with very odd hours, mean working a lot of weekends, but the hours are changing, just not sure to what yet. Please feel free to disagree, but thats just my feelings on the matter at the moment, they may change at some point. Bye -- Dean Liversidge .__ . , Co-Sysop of Dalmation BBS | \ _.|._ _ _.-+-* _ ._ The First SAM Bulletin Board |__/(_]|[ | )(_] | |(_)[ ) Saturday 12:00pm till midnight. >>>>>>> +44 1744 614150 >>>>>> Sysop: Dave Whitmore From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 21 23:45:49 1996 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Dean Liversidge Organization: The Mad House To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 08:26:35 +0000 Subject: Re: Duplication? No, memory I think Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Message-Id: <845934212.17391.0@error.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1378 Lines: 34 > >A higher resolution video display would be very nice in my > >wish-list, but again that would really increase the memory > >requirements, and the toll on the overstressed CPU. > It would not have to put a toll on the CPU. I think it would. > One way would be to allow another processor to catch writes to the > video ram and expand things into another block of memory. This is Yeah, but thats taking the pressure if the CPU ! > just how many parts of the PCs system work. If the SAM's internal > screen is then switched off then the CPU will run faster. I think > this is how Simon Cooke's system accelerator worked in reverse - and > if it can work one way then why not the other. And what about > hardware sprites and screen plains? again that would free the CPU > for other things. Yeah, but i wasn't meaning hardware graphics acceleration, too expensive. Just the fact that the screen was much larger means that there is more memory to move when writing to the screen and scrolling or clearing the screen. Bye -- Dean Liversidge .__ . , Co-Sysop of Dalmation BBS | \ _.|._ _ _.-+-* _ ._ The First SAM Bulletin Board |__/(_]|[ | )(_] | |(_)[ ) Saturday 12:00pm till midnight. >>>>>>> +44 1744 614150 >>>>>> Sysop: Dave Whitmore From imc Tue Oct 22 10:50:23 1996 Subject: Re: The Black Feet Gang To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:50:23 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <9610212050.AA11473@mars.cableol.net> from "Neil Maynard" at Feb 21, 96 09:54:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 186 Lines: 6 On Wed, 21 Feb 1996 21:54:01 +0000, Neil Maynard said: > If you want good e-mail software try Pegasus Mail. Its even Free!!!! It's so good it even delays your mail by 8 months... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 22 13:07:39 1996 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:05:43 +0100 (BST) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@euler.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: SAM users list Subject: Confusing or wot? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1372 Lines: 27 OK.. I know this has probably been covered before... But, remember, I'm new to the hardware side of the SAM so don't flame me (too much)... (Damn.. I forgot the bit of paper with the page numbers, IO addresses, etc. Anyway, here goes...) OK.. Before I start designing complicated bits of hardware for my SAM (and Arcturus), I thought I'd start with a simple thing such as a row of LEDs... "I know... I read that on the expansion port, there is a line called PRINTL that already has an address decoded.. That'll make life easier for me..." At the front of the Technical Manual (Issue 3), it goes on about PRINTL being 'the decoded address of either 246 and 248'... That's fine... BUT! (A REALLY BIG BUT!) In the appendix, there is a nice chart of all the IO ports. According to that, 246 and 248 are part of the range of addresses for the second disk drive and that PRINTL is really the upper address lines (A3 to A15 (or is it A7?)) and I still need to decode A0 to A2... -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 22 14:14:33 1996 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Dean Liversidge Organization: The Mad House To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:46:05 +0000 Subject: Re: *Off* the warpath for a change Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Message-Id: <845984927.25593.0@error.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 901 Lines: 24 A.S. Collier wrote: > > LOAD "name" CODE 32000 : CALL 32000 > > LOAD "name" CODE 32000,,32000 > > With the latter being more successful than the former. Don't know > NB Why should there be a difference between those two? The only difference i can think is that, the CALL32000 means that the BASIC interpreter is invoked to call the new address, and if anything is messed up in the basic sytem variables or thing like that, then it could crash, but the LOAD ... start,length,exec is used then it runs the code directly. BICBW ..... Bye now -- Dean Liversidge .__ . , Co-Sysop of Dalmation BBS | \ _.|._ _ _.-+-* _ ._ The First SAM Bulletin Board |__/(_]|[ | )(_] | |(_)[ ) Saturday 12:00pm till midnight. >>>>>>> +44 1744 614150 >>>>>> Sysop: Dave Whitmore From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 22 14:51:34 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:43:33 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Mailers and Femailers Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <7DBB3D04E5@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 209 Lines: 7 >If you want good e-mail software try Pegasus Mail. Its even Free!!!! Yep, Pegasus is rill, except some messages stretch out beyond the (adjustable) box size and you have to edit them to read them. Johnna From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 22 15:56:30 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:54:24 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: *Off* the warpath for a change - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1004 Lines: 26 > TW> I agree - there's a number of the .PAK files which fail to work. > TW> However I can't remember which ones I couldn't get to work, as I was > TW> trying to download things the Summer before last. > > Sorry if this has all been gone over before, but I've found that either one of two methods is successful. > > LOAD "name" CODE 32000 : CALL 32000 > > LOAD "name" CODE 32000,,32000 > > With the latter being more successful than the former. Don't know why.. but there you go. :) PAK files are a pain in the arse, if you use one of the compression options, it fails. If you have any Basic loaded, it fails. IF YOU SNEEZE ON THE SODDING DISC, IT FAILS. I tend to resort to Teledisk or doing a multiple sector read/write from MDOS these days. As for the PAK files on NVG, lots I have pulled down have had the BAD CHECKSUM error which send me into spasms of rage after dragging them all the way home and KEdisking them across. Whatever happened to Sam Pkzip (Mr Cooke) :) Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 22 18:00:44 1996 Date: 22 Oct 96 12:51:40 EDT From: Ian Dalziel <100717.2266@CompuServe.COM> To: SAM-USERS Subject: Multiple Mails Message-Id: <961022165140_100717.2266_EHU93-1@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 234 Lines: 7 Just a thought, guys - this isn't a newsgroup, it's a mailing list, so if you want to comment on several topics, how about putting them in one Email? The traffic's bad enough without eight messages at once from the same bod... Ian From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 22 18:53:48 1996 Message-Id: <199610221752.SAA20716@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: ASCII, Phones & flames Date: 22 Oct 1996 18:37:22 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 973 Lines: 28 In a message of 21 Oct 96 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: Hi Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk, ICc> are any good ASCII word processors for SAM? ICc> What exactly is an ASCII word processor? If you just want to type One that uses codes at the end of lines - as opposed to ICc> some text in then FSE is adequate (it's on Syncytium). :-) Well, the only editors I've used in SAM native mode have been the boring old Outwrite & Tasword type. I've used ZDE on ProDOS, which is nearly what I want, but I could never really understand why there weren't any proper commercial ASCII ones (except the one with Driver). ICc> I believe there's one on Syncytium, but it has a small bug... I don't like bugs. :) >> Has someone got the power to unsubscribe and ban users? ICc> Yes, anyone can unsubscribe anyone else by forging an unsubscribe ICc> message from them. :-) Ahhh.. who's gonna teach me how to send fake-mails? :) Bye, _ |_)ave From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 22 18:53:48 1996 Message-Id: <199610221752.SAA20723@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: *Off* the warpath for a change Date: 22 Oct 1996 18:44:18 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 403 Lines: 17 In a message of 21 Oct 96 MR P R WALKER wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: Hi MR, >> whole sam disk (from & to) using a PC drive. The file can then be zipped >> and distribut MPR> Yep, I'm here :) Unfortunately the program isn't with me, but I seem MPR> to remember uploading it to Dalmation? How about emailing me a brief-description/instruction doc and I'll put it on nvg ? Bye, _ |_)ave From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 22 18:53:50 1996 Message-Id: <199610221752.SAA20706@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: *Off* the warpath for a change Date: 22 Oct 1996 18:09:50 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 942 Lines: 27 In a message of 21 Oct 96 A.S. Collier wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: Hi A.S., ASC> Normally I haven't recieved multiple copies of any sam-users mails, ASC> but I did get Dave's twice, the second copy having been written five ASC> hours before the first (!) Does that mean some other people got four ASC> copies?! Sorry folks.. My mistake. When I write in this area, I have to forward the mail into my main email area and I must have forgotten I'd already sent it. >> LOAD "name" CODE 32000 : CALL 32000 >> LOAD "name" CODE 32000,,32000 ASC> NB Why should there be a difference between those two? I don't know, but they do give different results with some .pak files. I usually find that one or the other will work. The .pak archives are usually saved out with the execute address, but of course, they get stripped in transfer. Could it be that the archives were corrupt before they were sent up? Bye, _ |_)ave From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 22 18:53:50 1996 Message-Id: <199610221752.SAA20711@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: ASCII word-processors. Date: 22 Oct 1996 18:27:10 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1427 Lines: 30 In a message of 21 Oct 96 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: Hi BrenchleyR@aol.com, Bac> I have to transfer lots of files from Spectrum and SAM to the PC to Bac> use in FORMAT. The only files that come over without any need for Bac> conversion/intervention/changes are those from Notepad - the simple Bac> word-processor in DRiVER. I've always avoided Driver. I know it'a a good idea to have GUI on SAM, but someone put me of Driver a long time ago and told me to wait for a new version, which, as far as I know, was never released. I noticed that Allan mentioned some development tools coming up, so I might be tempted now. Bac> On the PC I think I am write in saying that a true ASCII file is one Bac> where there is a CHR$13 and a CHR$10 at the end of each line. The ASCII That's right. On an Amiga, however, most WP's only use CHR$10. These files, if printed on SAM - MODE 3: CSIZE 6,8: PRINT MEM$(start TO end) - obviously don't come out right, so I usually do a NEXT FOR loop to swap the 10's for 13's. I can save out text as PC style (10's & 13's), but when printed to SAM's screen, you end up with double spacing, IYKWIM. (sorry if this is all too boring for the codies amongst you) Bac> only. This latter option is the one that most modern PC word-processors Bac> seem to use. I seem to need a PC more every day now. :( Bac> Hope this helps. Yeah, thanks. :) Bye, _ |_)ave From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 22 19:33:55 1996 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 19:23:48 +0200 From: David Gommeren Subject: Re: *Off* the warpath for a change To: Sam List In-Reply-To: <199610201704.SAA05172@mail.enterprise.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: David Gommeren, Belgium X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.08] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 537 Lines: 13 On Sun 20 Oct, Dave Whitmore wrote: > Paul Walker (you there Paul?) wrote a program to read (and write back) a whole sam dis > k (from & to) using a PC drive. The file can then be zipped and distributed without an > y hassle.. and it gives people like me (Amiganut) a chance to do s > omething with the code.. ie write it back to a SAM disk. I wrote something similar for the Acorn series (works like a dream, just a little bit slow), format = track 0 head 0, track 0 head 1, track 1 head 0 etc. David Gommeren (gommerd@interpac.be) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Oct 22 23:12:36 1996 Message-Id: <9610222151.AA5305@worldcom-37.worldcom.com> To: sam-users From: Stefan Drissen Date: 22 Oct 96 18:11:44 Subject: Re: *Off* the warpath for a change Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1603 Lines: 42 **************************************** This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. **************************************** >Re: Read Track command on discs. > >There is a little known bug in the 1772 disc contoller chip that means the >Read Track command in unreliable. If a certain bit pattern shows up in the >track being read then the 1772 halts the read early (but does not tell you). > >This bug (which Nev Young found soon after the PLUS D came out in '87) means >that few programs will be using it - unless the programmer has been very, >very lucky during his testing. Basically it boils down to now being able to read the track data for track 41 (at least that's what I found). So all you guys into disc protection out there, track 41 is the one to put funny stuff in since you can't use readtrack to filter through all the odd stuff. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 09:15:50 1996 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 04:07:10 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961023040710_549356564@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Next year's Sam? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 196 Lines: 7 Reply to Gavin Smith's question about EMC regs. At the moment, it is all up in the air Gavin. I think the intention is to carry on and see what happens. We will just have to wait and see. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 11:14:57 1996 Subject: The Great Egg Race... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:09:45 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct23.111128+0100_met.46932-86+1@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 468 Lines: 17 Right... now that I'm nicely toasty warm from the flames that have been flying here, time for something completely different... How about we all pool our resources and each write a little bit of a SAM C compiler? A proper one, that is... with libraries for even writing Driver apps? What do you reckon? I'm up for it if everyone else is... Simon ps. Can't make it to the Gloucester show due to lack of cash... Otherwise I *would* be going this time... Sorry. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 12:29:03 1996 Message-Id: <199610231127.NAA03755@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman Subject: Requests for the show To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 96 13:27:10 METDST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1025 Lines: 21 Hello all, Well it's show time again. Can anyone bring a PC along, so that I can show SimCoupe in all its glory? I'll bring my Notenook, but its not so impressive on a 9.5" greyscale LCD. Also Is anyone driving down through the east midlands, and might be willing to give me a lift? I usually go by train, but it means I have to rush off. Allan -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Now available! XCoupe, the one and only SAM Coupe emulator | | *** http://www.hep.ucl.ac.uk/~ajs/xcoupe *** | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ | Allan Skillman | "There are five flavours of resons, the | | HEPP Group | elementary particles of magic : up, down, | | University College London | sideways, sex-appeal and peppermint." | | Email : ajs@hep.ucl.ac.uk | - Terry Pratchett (Lords and Ladies) | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 12:43:43 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:23:34 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: The Great Egg Race... - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 790 Lines: 27 > Right... now that I'm nicely toasty warm from the flames that > have been flying here, time for something completely different... *grins* > How about we all pool our resources and each write a little bit of a SAM C compiler? > > A proper one, that is... with libraries for even writing Driver apps? > > What do you reckon? Hell, never mind Driver, plain ol' ANSI would be enough! > I'm up for it if everyone else is... Full support from this corner, although I'm not sure I can be of much use in a coding-type way but if there is anything else that I can do... > ps. Can't make it to the Gloucester show due to lack of cash... > Otherwise I *would* be going this time... Sorry. Doh! The one time I decide to get off my arse and go to Gloucester the man ain't going! Dan. From imc Wed Oct 23 13:40:34 1996 Subject: Re: ASCII word-processors. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 13:40:34 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610221752.SAA20711@mail.enterprise.net> from "Dave Whitmore" at Oct 22, 96 06:27:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 563 Lines: 12 On 22 Oct 1996 18:27:10, Dave Whitmore said: > That's right. On an Amiga, however, most WP's only use CHR$10. These [>]files, if printed on SAM - MODE 3: CSIZE 6,8: PRINT MEM$(start TO end) - [>]obviously don't come out right, so I usually do a NEXT FOR loop to swap [>]the 10's for 13's. I can save out text as PC style (10's & 13's), but [>]when printed to SAM's screen, you end up with double spacing, IYKWIM. If you view these files with "less" then they will all come out right. And *please* will you start using the return key on your keyboard? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 13:42:24 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 13:39:48 GMT Subject: Re: Next year's Sam? Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <1DD07690547@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 348 Lines: 12 > Reply to Gavin Smith's question about EMC regs. > > At the moment, it is all up in the air Gavin. I think the intention is to > carry on and see what happens. > We will just have to wait and see. > > Bob. Good news as I doubt many people would buy a Sam in the next few months if it wasn't even going to be produced next year. Gavin Smith From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 13:51:16 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 13:47:12 GMT Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <1DD26B869DC@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 968 Lines: 30 > How about we all pool our resources and each write a little bit of a SAM > C compiler? > > A proper one, that is... with libraries for even writing Driver apps? > > What do you reckon? > > I'm up for it if everyone else is... > > Simon Best idea I've heard on this list so far since I subscribed to it. I wish I could help, but I've only started learning C a few months ago, so I'm not exactly great at it yet. If I can help in anyway I will though, and I really hope that the people on this list will get together and start such a project - great idea about the Driver applics too. > > ps. Can't make it to the Gloucester show due to lack of cash... Otherwise > I *would* be going this time... > Sorry. Would everyone stop mentioning Gloucester shows! I live in Belfast so obviously I can't go to them and you lot are making me very jealous *sobs* Hmm, which brings me to a question - anyone else from Northern Ireland on this list? Gavin Smith From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 13:56:53 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 13:51:55 GMT Subject: Our old chum David Ledbury Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <1DD3ABB1503@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 244 Lines: 6 Sorry to mail again (forgot to mention this in previous mails) but has anyone received Z2 issue 2 yet?! When he brought this new fanzine out, I thought maybe he really was gonna make an effort to bring these ones out on time... Gavin Smith From imc Wed Oct 23 14:01:34 1996 Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:01:34 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <96Oct23.111128+0100_met.46932-86+1@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> from "Simon Cooke" at Oct 23, 96 11:09:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 753 Lines: 18 On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:09:45 +0100 (BST), Simon Cooke said: > How about we all pool our resources and each write a little bit of a SAM > C compiler? Well, sounds OK in theory, but like all things I doubt that the work would progress very far. > ps. Can't make it to the Gloucester show due to lack of cash... Otherwise > I *would* be going this time... Due to the number of people who have said on this list that they aren't going it seems that there's not a whole lot of benefit in me going either, since I've not exactly got time going to waste right now. See you in April or May, perhaps (as long as it isn't on April 18 or 25). (I might be persuaded to reconsider if someone offers Allan a lift and happens to drive through Oxford...). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 14:29:18 1996 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:24:18 +0100 From: D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) Message-Id: <199610231324.OAA03318@yder.cs.cf.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: Z3XkjcSB296J1Y1nbRoy7A== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 568 Lines: 18 C compiler? Are you mad? I'd been thinking along the lines of a C++ compiler. It's not that much more difficult to implement, you know. Hell, once you know about adjuster thunking you know EVERYTHING.... :) We don't even need to write it ourselves... just send an email to Bjorn Straustrup ( or however you spell it ) saying 'Z80 C++ compiler' and he'll leap into action.. :) Oh, I am quite serious about this. I think a nice ANSI C++ compiler would be just the ticket. It's a logical progression from C, as it is. I'm happy to go along with it... DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 14:33:25 1996 Message-Id: <326E8E2C.4292@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:29:16 -0700 From: MR P R WALKER Organization: Computing Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe and new project References: <199610211038.MAA12241@dxmint.cern.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 261 Lines: 9 Allan Skillman wrote: > If such a toolkit existed, would you lot write some applications? Well... I would if I'd got time to figure out m/c. Call that a yes. :) > | Email : ajs@hep.ucl.ac.uk | - Terry Pratchett (Lords and Ladies) Good choice, I think! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 14:33:25 1996 Message-Id: <326E8E2C.4292@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:29:16 -0700 From: MR P R WALKER Organization: Computing Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe and new project References: <199610211038.MAA12241@dxmint.cern.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 261 Lines: 9 Allan Skillman wrote: > If such a toolkit existed, would you lot write some applications? Well... I would if I'd got time to figure out m/c. Call that a yes. :) > | Email : ajs@hep.ucl.ac.uk | - Terry Pratchett (Lords and Ladies) Good choice, I think! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 14:51:25 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:49:09 +0100 (BST) From: "Appendixless-Boy .." To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: *Off* the warpath for a change In-Reply-To: <199610211735.SAA06743@mail.enterprise.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 687 Lines: 20 On 21 Oct 1996, Dave Whitmore wrote: > > LOAD "name" CODE 32000 : CALL 32000 > > LOAD "name" CODE 32000,,32000 > Probably due to the fact that 32000 is in the BASIC area. (With things set up when the SAM is switched on..). Thus when you load the code in and then return to BASIC before calling it there is a chance that some of the code will be overwritten by whatevers in the BASIC area. I'd suggest setting RAMTOP to 31999 ( By doing CLEAR 31999 ) before loading anything. After this then both commands should be equally succesfull, and any errors are probably due to corrupted data .. All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... Lee. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 15:30:10 1996 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 10:23:45 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961023102337_216651898@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 941 Lines: 24 Working on a new C compiler would be a good idea, but.... a) It would need to have a proper spec written and agreed in advance. By that I don't just mean take the ANSI C standard and implement it, I mean someone would have to lay down how the Z80 registers are used, and how routines pass info between each other. b) There would have to be one person in control, able to crack the whip and get things done. c) There would have to be deadlines. Item (a) would take a fair amount of work but is possible. Item (c) is the easy bit - provided people are dedicated enough to put the required effort in. But item (b)? Well, that would be the $64,000 question. But first, would anyone like to work with Nev on the updated HDOS? If the HDOS was advanced a little further then it would be easier to consider a more advanced C compiler as size would no longer be so important as everything could be hard-drive based. Just a few thoughts. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 15:30:15 1996 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 10:23:42 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961023102341_216651927@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: The 'get Cookie to the Show' Race. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 428 Lines: 18 In a message dated 23/10/96 10:15:18, you write: >Can't make it to the Gloucester show due to lack of cash... Otherwise >I *would* be going this time... >Sorry. > >Simon. Someone come up with a lift for Simon. He needs to be there or he will suffer withdrawal symptoms. There must be someone coming down from that direction. I tell you what. Drive who brings Simon can have free entry - how's that for generosity. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 15:57:17 1996 Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:51:44 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199610231324.OAA03318@yder.cs.cf.ac.uk> from "D M Zambonini" at Oct 23, 96 02:24:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct23.155218+0100_met.46934-79+6@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 579 Lines: 15 > Oh, I am quite serious about this. I think a nice ANSI C++ compiler would > be just the ticket. It's a logical progression from C, as it is. I'm happy > to go along with it... I'm game for C because I think that C++ might be a bit more demanding on processor power, and as such we might have a problem getting it to run at a reasonable speed... But... if you want to go for that... I see your C++ and raise you Java... (Anyone want to do the Java Virtual Machine? That way we can code on (say) a PC and port it straight to the SAM! :) No networking though, alas) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 16:11:06 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:04:26 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Driver and C - dull heading huh? Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <8081E044A@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1445 Lines: 30 Allan and Simon have both come up with excellent ideas in the past few days that we could all do well in discussing. Driver is an excellent application in principle, but without software that supports it it is useless - like building a house and not letting anybody live in it. If it was supported by applications (and I mean more than just the old 'change the icons' things that have appeared on various diskzines) it could become the SAM standard GUI - how about incorporating it into HDOS (it is, after all, fairly useless just runnnig from floppies as Workbench on the Amiga proved) and then getting various people (like Steve Nutting, if he's still doing new SAM stuff) to do Driver versions of their software. After all, the application is there and once people start seeing new software coming out for use within the environment they will support Driver. As to the proposed SAM C Compiler / ANSI C++, well it's another great idea. As anybody who has seen anything I've ever written will know, if it's beyond the realms of basic BASIC, then it's beyond the realms of my coding skills, but if there was anything else I could help with I'd be more than happy to. These last few days have, as somebody else mentioned, thrown up some great ideas on the list and if we can all pool our ideas and knowledge then we might start seeing some life injected into the unusually quiet SAM scene. Congrats to all inolved. Johnna From imc Wed Oct 23 16:18:06 1996 Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:18:06 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <96Oct23.155218+0100_met.46934-79+6@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> from "Simon Cooke" at Oct 23, 96 03:51:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 319 Lines: 8 On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:51:44 +0100 (BST), Simon Cooke said: > (Anyone want to do the Java Virtual Machine? That way we can code on > (say) a PC and port it straight to the SAM! :) No networking though, alas) If you've got the JVM then you can jump straight to NetRexx, which is already available in JVM code... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 16:32:37 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:28:06 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 716 Lines: 19 > > Oh, I am quite serious about this. I think a nice ANSI C++ compiler would > > be just the ticket. It's a logical progression from C, as it is. I'm happy > > to go along with it... > > I'm game for C because I think that C++ might be a bit more demanding on > processor power, and as such we might have a problem getting it to run at > a reasonable speed... As people always seem to mention, there are ANSI C compilers for CP/M so could we use anything from CP/M land - a bit of 'code acquisition' maybe?? C++ is another step up, I reckon (IMHO) that ANSI is a good target to go for. > But... if you want to go for that... I see your C++ and raise you Java... [:-| (Supposedly a poker-faced smiley) Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 17:03:36 1996 Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:54:56 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Doore" at Oct 23, 96 04:28:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct23.165608+0100_met.46932-82+8@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1221 Lines: 31 > As people always seem to mention, there are ANSI C compilers for CP/M so could > we use anything from CP/M land - a bit of 'code acquisition' maybe?? The maths libraries, maybe, but the core is a bit of a problem -- I'm talking about stuff like the DOS interface (needs a completely new DOS, or a layer to sit between the C code and the READ/WRITE sector routines of the existing dos to get it compatible with existing C methodologies)... the *MAIN* main problem though is the memory allocation / program location stuff.. We've got an up-to 4.5Mb machine here, so we should be able to come up with a scheme which can use all that memory without worrying the C coder too much. Ideally we'retalking a flat memory model, but that could be slow to use... Alas, existing CP/M compilers won't cut it when it comes to that. OTher things, like implementing good terminal I/O could be ripped straight out of Termite -- fast printing, etc... > C++ is another step up, I reckon (IMHO) that ANSI is a good target to go for. Yeah... C++ would be a bit.... tricky I reckon. > > But... if you want to go for that... I see your C++ and raise you Java... > > [:-| (Supposedly a poker-faced smiley) *grins* :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 17:03:57 1996 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:59:55 +0100 (BST) From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <7138.199610231559@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The 'get Cookie to the Show' Race. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 84 Lines: 3 There must be /someone/ willing to take Bob up on his generous offer, surely? Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 17:04:19 1996 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:51:09 +0100 From: Diggory Gray (PWE) Message-Id: <199610231551.QAA12200@ugs2> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: ASIC... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 798 Lines: 28 Er hello people on the mailing list. I have just got an new ASIC for my SAM. You may remember that I toasted my last one with a dodgy monitor. But I have had no luck with the display. Before the new ASIC: SAM has very faint signal to TV and works OK with sound etc... After the new ASIC SAM still has faint signal to TV, but sounds are coming through OK. Is it likely to be the TV modulator in the power supply? Everything apart from the week ( almost unreconisable ) image on the TV is OK. Maybe I am missing some point here? Also I have another question about XCoupe: > Actually, the real problem is that you are using the OpenWindows version of >xmkmf instead of the X11 one. I don't suppose you could rectify this? How? - do I have to run an X11 thingy? Thanks for any help. Diggory From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 17:25:43 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:16:23 GMT+0 Subject: Re: A SICk powersupply, methinks... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <93957241D@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1431 Lines: 33 Diggory, > After the new ASIC > SAM still has faint signal to TV, but sounds are coming through OK. > > Is it likely to be the TV modulator in the power supply? This sounds like a prime case of buggered up TV Modulator. If the picture is all broken up, with nothing recognisable then it's almost definite. A pretty good way to find out if it is that that is wrong is to switch on your PSU and see if one corner of the unit gets unusually hot very quickly. And if you can smell a pungent burning smell then you'll have to replace your PSU I'm afraid. Its happened four times to me in the five years I've had my SAM, and before that my Speccy PSU's used to blow up all the time. Maybe I'm cursed? Anyway, a really cheap source to get SAM PSU's from is Greenweld in Southampton. The last time I had to buy one they priced it at a fiver for me, plus three quid P+P. I shouldn't have said this over the list erally, because some enterprising young sod will run off and snap them all up real cheap and then try and flog them off for stlg25 a piece as has happened in the SAM world previously. Anywa, the price may have risen back up to a tenner - they had a promo on when I got mine - but you still can't lose. And the address...well from memory it's: 29 Park Road, Southampton - but don't send your money yet because you'd better see if the address is right! Sorry about that. Hope you get it fixed soon. Johnna From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 17:26:13 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:24:47 GMT Subject: Re: A SICk powersupply, methinks... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <1E0C6CA17AA@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 273 Lines: 7 > Anyway, a really cheap source to get SAM PSU's from is Greenweld in > Southampton. The last time I had to buy one they priced it at a fiver > for me, plus three quid P+P. *Waiting for loads of warnings from Uncle Bob about how dodgy these power supplies are *grin* From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 19:57:05 1996 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:55:55 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961023145553_1448328466@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A SICk powersupply, methinks... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 378 Lines: 13 In a message dated 23/10/96 16:26:21, you write: >> Anyway, a really cheap source to get SAM PSU's from is Greenweld in >> Southampton. The last time I had to buy one they priced it at a fiver >> for me, plus three quid P+P. > >*Waiting for loads of warnings from Uncle Bob about how dodgy these power >supplies >are *grin* I've said it all before, just be warned. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 19:57:05 1996 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:55:57 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961023145557_1581914642@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ASIC... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 572 Lines: 15 In a message dated 23/10/96 15:59:38, you write: >Is it likely to be the TV modulator in the power supply? Odds are:- 50% on the 1377 chip (if you have blown the old ASIC you may well have cooked this), 25% on the PSU not giving +12V(test the output with a meter), 10% on the modulator blown (could be tested by connecting the COMP VID on the scart to the COMP VID input on a TV or VCR if the signal is strong you should be able to see a pichture even without the COMP SYNC connected), 10% on a faulty ASIC and the rest shared between a dozen other problems. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 19:57:06 1996 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:56:01 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961023145558_1745893266@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 480 Lines: 12 Just had this sudden thought. Is there a source for a C compiler anywhere, that is itself written in C. The reason I ask is that Nev has a very expensive package (I've seen the bill) that takes ANSI C (as near as poss) and produces Z80 source code as its output. This can then assemble and link into Z80 object code of course with optimization for either speed or size. But the Z80 source could also be taken to SAM and hand optimized to go through Comet. Just an idea. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 21:17:27 1996 Message-Id: <199610232017.VAA21655@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: A SICk powersupply, methinks... Date: 23 Oct 1996 20:37:27 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 502 Lines: 20 In a message of 23 Oct 96 j.d.teare wrote to sam-users@nvg.unit.no: Hi j.d.teare, jdt> 29 Park Road, Southampton - but don't send your money yet because jdt> you'd better see if the address is right! Sorry about that. Has anyone ever accused you of being a troll Johnna? :))) I think Diggory mentioned he was using a monitor, so a modulator probably wouldn't figure in the equation? < that isn't /really/ a question folks. :) Just a thought.. I mean, no flames please. ;) Bye, _ |_)ave From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Oct 23 21:38:32 1996 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 21:37:11 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply - Reply - Reply In-Reply-To: <961023145558_1745893266@emout06.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2317 Lines: 42 On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > Is there a source for a C compiler anywhere, that is itself written in C. The > reason I ask is that Nev has a very expensive package (I've seen the bill) > that takes ANSI C (as near as poss) and produces Z80 source code as its > output. This can then assemble and link into Z80 object code of course with > optimization for either speed or size. But the Z80 source could also be > taken to SAM and hand optimized to go through Comet. Well.... If your compiled output is a general Z80 file, I don't see how the program proposes to do any machine-specific stuff, such as writing to the screen or paging memory (and even if your compiler doesn't need to do this sort of thing, your C programs might, so the PC compiler will still need to tell the Sam compiler how to do things) This means that either the C-source will need to be significantly altered, or the Sam program (compiled compiler) would need to be significantly altered, or more likely both. I strongly suspect it would be far easier if we were to start from scratch. So... I know nothing about compilers, and very little about C. Has anybody thought about a BASIC compiler? Anyway, if anybody gives me a specific and reasonable task to do, I'll have a look at doing it. (This is not necessarily limited to the C project, eg I've just sent an exploder screen effect to Derek Morgan, who wanted it for some reason or another) However, I'm not making promises, certainly none for big jobs, because a) I've already got plently of things to program, and b) I've got a lot of other stuff to do. Like work for example. I did bring my Sam with me to Cambridge, but I've had hardly any time to actually use it. (Hence the delay in uploading to nvg, I promise I'll get around to that! Same goes for you various MNEMOtech members subscribed - the next group disk will, in all probability, be delayed until I get a large chunk of spare time - possibly even the Christmas break. Unless somebody else wants to do some organising for a change) Obviously I spend too much time emailing... (getting involved in that big argument probably didn't help either, but that seems to have fizzled out) See (some of) you in Gloucester! (Everybody please make an effort or we'll have another Weatherby on out hands) Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 09:51:33 1996 Message-Id: <199610240849.KAA27519@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman Subject: Proposed object form To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 10:49:05 METDST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 5388 Lines: 96 Hello All, I was sitting in a seminar yesterday afternoon, when a few thoughts came to me regarding the discussion on the mailing list regarding an ansi C compiler for the SAM. Distracted as I was from the lecture about Chiral symmetry in nuclei (It was actually quite good, but theorists tend to get a bit over excited, at these dos, and the ones in the audience started asking lots of technical questions, most of them way over my head), I started thinking about the technicalities of the idea. Before we start bounding off discussing whether it should be C or C++ etc, I think we should set down the baseline for the (possible) project. I propose we start by looking at the form of the object or executable we want to produce. It's no good thinking about the compiler without discussing how the program should be put together. To this end I have put together a few thoughts. Note that the object form I am proposing is not just for the compiler output, but a general one - if assembly programs are also put together this way - in fact even possibly the compiler components themselves, then everything will fit together nicely For a start I think we need to loose the idea of loading the object into memory directly from BASIC. I thinking rather of using a loader of some form which pages out BASIC and loads in the object in the correct place together with any resources it requires - this way we loose all the problems we get with programs like UNPAK - discussed in the list a while back. When the object is finished, the loader rejigs the memory and returns control to BASIC. The SAM has quite a nice memory paging setup, so we should take advantage of this. I propose that each object has a base segment of 0 to 32K, loaded in at section AB - this also has the advantage that section A can be write locked, which might be useful - a simple form of memory management if you like. Section CD of the memory is used for various tasks including the program loader outlined above, the screen display, the program library - see below and for accessing additional segments of memory for the object. The object code uses a library for most of its interaction with the machine and io - this is quite important, as we don't have any process control, the objects have to play by the rules or things will blow up! The base library here for C programs would of course be the standard C library, and this may in turn access the DOS (which ever one is needed). To do this the library may well have to page itself into AB. If the object requires additional memory to the base segment it can allocate pages from either the SAM base memory, the external memory, or possibly virtual memory from disk by calling a library routine. The library deals with keeping tabs on the overall allocation. Once allocated the object can page the memory into CD to access it. This is hardly malloc() but we may well be stuck with such a system. Each object base segment would contain a header, probably composed of the first 256 bytes. This header would contain information about the Object name, size etc and which libraries it required - stuff needed by the loaded program. Also here would be the defined entry and exit routines for the system, where conrol is passed to and from by the loader to the object, the stack can also be dealt with here. As this in zero page, we can also take advantage of the Z80 restart points to set up nice user functions. To the user of course this would all be transparent, an object - say PKunzip would run without disturbing anything. If you have got down to this far in the mail, you are probably thinking - this looks like a lot of work. Fortunately I can tell you that 95 % of it ALREADY EXISTS, thanks to Steve Taylor. You might not have been impressed by the looks of Driver, but if you take a peek under the bonnet, you would find all of the above and more. Its a very professional job. The thought that struck me was that the object (application) lay out is just what we are after. Such an object DOESN'T have to use the GUI, it could do anything - it could even be a game or a demo. As long as it obeys the rules it will be completely compatible with Driver - in fact you can even load multiple versions of the application/object in and switch between them - even Windows 3.1 can't do that (not supprising really :) Thinking further, the object form above could be extened to a multitasking idea, in fact the SAM paging arrangement should be well suited such an arrangement. But I think I will leave it there as this Email is getting rather long already. Think about what I'm saying and put your views down - or come and talk to me on Saturday - I'm all ears! Allan -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Now available! XCoupe, the one and only SAM Coupe emulator | | *** http://www.hep.ucl.ac.uk/~ajs/xcoupe *** | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ | Allan Skillman | "There are five flavours of resons, the | | HEPP Group | elementary particles of magic : up, down, | | University College London | sideways, sex-appeal and peppermint." | | Email : ajs@hep.ucl.ac.uk | - Terry Pratchett (Lords and Ladies) | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 09:57:40 1996 Message-Id: <9610240854.AA06965@namu23> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Cc: slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 23 Oct 96 10:23:45 EDT." <961023102337_216651898@emout14.mail.aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 10:54:35 +0200 From: slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de X-Mts: smtp Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 141 Lines: 4 >But first, would anyone like to work with Nev on the updated HDOS? If the Ja , ja , ja - oh, sorry , I mean Yes , yes , yes :-) Slawek. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 10:08:42 1996 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:04:39 +0100 From: D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) Message-Id: <199610240904.KAA00647@valyant.cs.cf.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: zi0kE6OEgas3dGyY80pkwg== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 846 Lines: 25 > > Oh, I am quite serious about this. I think a nice ANSI C++ compiler would > > be just the ticket. It's a logical progression from C, as it is. I'm happy > > to go along with it... > > I'm game for C because I think that C++ might be a bit more demanding on > processor power, and as such we might have a problem getting it to run at > a reasonable speed... > C++ was specifically designed to introduce absolutley NO overhead in terms of processor power unless specifically requested by the programmer. In other words, and I think I'm going to use this as my quote:- "Once you've dealt with adjuster thunking it's all a matter of semantics" (*grin*) DMZ :) --- Oh, and I would have thought register use was obvious - I mean, it's not even as if the Z80 has general purpose registers, they are all specific in some way or another... From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 10:16:45 1996 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:07:28 +0100 From: Diggory Gray (PWE) Message-Id: <199610240907.KAA28003@ugs2> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ASIC... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 616 Lines: 18 > Odds are:- > 50% on the 1377 chip (if you have blown the old ASIC you may well have > cooked this), > 25% on the PSU not giving +12V(test the output with a meter), > 10% on the modulator blown (could be tested by connecting the COMP VID on > the scart to the COMP VID input on a TV or VCR if the signal is strong you > should be able to see a pichture even without the COMP SYNC connected), > 10% on a faulty ASIC > and the rest shared between a dozen other problems. > > Bob. > Thanks I'll go and get it tested with my meter... I'm not using a monitor any more - thats what caused the problem... Diggory From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 10:30:45 1996 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:27:15 +0100 From: D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) Message-Id: <199610240927.KAA00712@valyant.cs.cf.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Proposed object form Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: fOXmi4OycM2m2kh5UKpkaQ== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1722 Lines: 37 > Before we start bounding off discussing whether it should be C or C++ etc, I > think we should set down the baseline for the (possible) project. I propose > we start by looking at the form of the object or executable we want to > produce. It's no good thinking about the compiler without discussing how > the program should be put together. To this end I have put together a few > thoughts. [snip] > Section CD of the memory is used for various tasks including the program > loader outlined above, the screen display, the program library - see below > and for accessing additional segments of memory for the object. [lots more snipping] Whhhooaaa! What's this about assigning sections AB for this/ CD for that in terms of what you want to access?. I propose that that is the job of the libraries - to determine where screen memory is, etc. I mean, how many C compilers do YOU know that have foreknowledge of the screen layout and file structure etc.? For a true >32K code >32K data model, we need a system that can handle paging in a more rational way - so what about section C/D for all data access and A/B for code access, with C/D also allowing access upon paging to code paging code for so called 'far' calls? Entry / exit code is a very small matter. Of course, instead of using a global stack theres always the option of assigning storage space in the "code" segment to be used locally. As for object/executable, my preferences always lie with the executable... but I don't see why we shouldn't have non-executable object files that require linking - some quite serious linking, I may point out, as all addresses would need to be redefined in the model I have in mind. ( Am I making any sense? ) DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 10:40:47 1996 Message-Id: <199610240939.LAA04133@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman Subject: Re: Proposed object form To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 11:39:19 METDST In-Reply-To: <199610240927.KAA00712@valyant.cs.cf.ac.uk>; from "D M Zambonini" at Oct 24, 96 10:27 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2480 Lines: 52 > > > > Before we start bounding off discussing whether it should be C or C++ etc, I > > think we should set down the baseline for the (possible) project. I propose > > we start by looking at the form of the object or executable we want to > > produce. It's no good thinking about the compiler without discussing how > > the program should be put together. To this end I have put together a few > > thoughts. > > [snip] > > > Section CD of the memory is used for various tasks including the program > > loader outlined above, the screen display, the program library - see below > > and for accessing additional segments of memory for the object. > > [lots more snipping] > > Whhhooaaa! What's this about assigning sections AB for this/ CD for that in > terms of what you want to access?. I propose that that is the job of the > libraries - to determine where screen memory is, etc. I mean, how many C > compilers do YOU know that have foreknowledge of the screen layout and file > structure etc.? > > For a true >32K code >32K data model, we need a system that can handle paging > in a more rational way - so what about section C/D for all data access and A/B > for code access, with C/D also allowing access upon paging to code paging code > for so called 'far' calls? Entry / exit code is a very small matter. > Of course, instead of using a global stack theres always the option of > assigning storage space in the "code" segment to be used locally. > As for object/executable, my preferences always lie with the executable... > but I don't see why we shouldn't have non-executable object files that require > linking - some quite serious linking, I may point out, as all addresses would > need to be redefined in the model I have in mind. > > ( Am I making any sense? ) > > DMZ > --- > -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Now available! XCoupe, the one and only SAM Coupe emulator | | *** http://www.hep.ucl.ac.uk/~ajs/xcoupe *** | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ | Allan Skillman | "There are five flavours of resons, the | | HEPP Group | elementary particles of magic : up, down, | | University College London | sideways, sex-appeal and peppermint." | | Email : ajs@hep.ucl.ac.uk | - Terry Pratchett (Lords and Ladies) | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ From imc Thu Oct 24 12:17:51 1996 Subject: Re: ASIC... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:17:51 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610231551.QAA12200@ugs2> from "Diggory Gray" at Oct 23, 96 04:51:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 430 Lines: 11 On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:51:09 +0100, Diggory Gray said: > > Actually, the real problem is that you are using the OpenWindows version of > >xmkmf instead of the X11 one. I don't suppose you could rectify this? > How? - do I have to run an X11 thingy? I haven't a clue - it depends on how your machine is set up. Just see if "xmkmf" works with no arguments first, and if it does then you don't need to worry about it. :-) imc From imc Thu Oct 24 12:22:36 1996 Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply - Reply - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:22:36 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <961023145558_1745893266@emout06.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Oct 23, 96 02:56:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 619 Lines: 13 On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:56:01 -0400, BrenchleyR@aol.com said: > Is there a source for a C compiler anywhere, that is itself written in C. (Now were we talking about question marks earlier? :-) ) As far as I am aware, most C compilers are in fact written in C. Unfortunately, most C compilers are also supplied without source. There is of course gcc, but that's huge and you'd want to cut it down rather a lot if you wanted to fit it inside a Sam. There is another slight problem: I imagine compilers in general use lex and yacc for parsing. You could solve that by running them on the PC to generate C source. imc From imc Thu Oct 24 12:29:32 1996 Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply - Reply - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:29:32 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "A.S. Collier" at Oct 23, 96 09:37:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1012 Lines: 22 On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 21:37:11 +0100 (BST), A.S. Collier said: > This means that either the C-source will need to be significantly altered, > or the Sam program (compiled compiler) would need to be significantly > altered, or more likely both. I strongly suspect it would be far easier if > we were to start from scratch. Note that only a small part of a compiler's job is code generation. You could get a *lot* of mileage by starting with an existing compiler. Stuff like syntax analysis won't need to be changed at all (unless you want to cut out or add in some extensions - I suppose you'll have to add a couple of things like near and far pointers). Note that if you write it in C you could compile it on a PC first and then use *that* to compile it again, generating Z80 output. > Obviously I spend too much time emailing... (getting involved in that big > argument probably didn't help either, but that seems to have fizzled out) > See (some of) you in Gloucester! I thought you weren't going... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 12:51:44 1996 From: J.K.Ogden@exeter.ac.uk Message-Id: <16657.199610241149@eng> Subject: Power supplys and video chips To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:49:42 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1217 Lines: 28 I have suffered from a number video problems on the sam. The cause of these problems were mainly due to a faulty video chip. However it is my belief that the 12v power rail is the initial culprit. CMOS i.c's require that their inputs do not exceed Vdd at any time otherwise failure is probable. In the sam coupe, the 12v rail falls before the 5v rail. I believe this leaves the video chip open to attack. My solution was to change the video chip, replace the 12v zenner arrangement in the PSU with a 7812 based circuit and increase the resevoir capacitor value. So far this approach has not only solved my video problems, it has also increced the efficiency of the 12v rail by >100% and solved the other main PSU problems (Overheating and temperature drift tuner ). I hope that this information may be of use. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ****************************************************************************** J.K.Ogden E-Mail : J.K.Ogden@exeter.ac.uk TALK : se94jko.eng.exeter.ac.uk ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From imc Thu Oct 24 12:55:02 1996 Subject: Re: Proposed object form To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:55:02 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610240849.KAA27519@dxmint.cern.ch> from "Allan Skillman" at Oct 24, 96 10:49:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2807 Lines: 55 On Thu, 24 Oct 96 10:49:05 METDST, Allan Skillman said: > For a start I think we need to loose the idea of loading the object into > memory directly from BASIC. I thinking rather of using a loader of some > form which pages out BASIC and loads in the object in the correct place > together with any resources it requires It sounds like what you are describing is the link-editor. Not that this is a bad idea (linking the C library with every program and storing a copy of it on disk could have undesireable space-filling effects), but would you then have to give away the C library with every copy of a program you write? > this way we loose all the problems > we get with programs like UNPAK - discussed in the list a while back. Don't bring UNPAK into this. If it doesn't work then it is clearly a badly written piece of software. > The SAM has quite a nice memory paging setup, Er, no it doesn't. Since it pages in blocks of 32K there is only room for two of them. One of those has to be the program, so you have to juggle with the other if you want to to anything that requires access to two different pages. Printing graphics on the screen is particularly difficult. Note that if you want interrupts (MI and NMI) to work (and it would not be friendly to let the machine crash when the user presses the break button unless the programmer deliberately wants to disable the break button for some reason) then you have to keep either the ROM or a RAM page with a collection of restart routines in section A. So then you put the C librarry in section CD. Presumably, if it wanted to, a C library routine could call a ROM routine to do something, which is nice. On the other hand, accessing the screen would be a bit difficult - the library might have to page itself into section B or have the screen in section B with ROM in section A. > The base library here for C programs would of course be the > standard C library, and this may in turn access the DOS (which ever one > is needed). Of course, accessing the DOS will be rather difficult as many of the hook codes are broken... > If the object requires additional memory to the base segment it can > allocate pages from either the SAM base memory, the external memory, or > possibly virtual memory from disk by calling a library routine. The library > deals with keeping tabs on the overall allocation. Once allocated the > object can page the memory into CD to access it. This is hardly malloc() > but we may well be stuck with such a system. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why not? There's no reason why you couldn't implement a malloc(). The problem is deciding what format a char* pointer takes and whether or not you have to select the right page every time you access it. imc From imc Thu Oct 24 12:58:06 1996 Subject: Re: Proposed object form To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:58:06 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199610240939.LAA04133@dxmint.cern.ch> from "Allan Skillman" at Oct 24, 96 11:39:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 143 Lines: 10 On Thu, 24 Oct 96 11:39:19 METDST, Allan Skillman said: [39 lines of quoted article] > > > -- [10 lines of signature] Lost for words? imc From imc Thu Oct 24 12:59:56 1996 Subject: Re: Power supplys and video chips To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:59:56 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <16657.199610241149@eng> from "J.K.Ogden@exeter.ac.uk" at Oct 24, 96 12:49:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 425 Lines: 9 On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:49:42 +0100 (BST), J.K.Ogden@exeter.ac.uk said: > CMOS i.c's require that their inputs do not exceed Vdd at any time otherwise > failure is probable. In the sam coupe, the 12v rail falls before the 5v rail. > I believe this leaves the video chip open to attack. On the other hand, if you used the switch on the back of the Sam to turn it off then there probably wouldn't have been a problem... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 13:10:06 1996 From: J.K.Ogden@exeter.ac.uk Message-Id: <17786.199610241205@eng> Subject: Re: Power supplys and video chips To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:05:14 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <9610241159.AA04500@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Oct 24, 96 12:59:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 909 Lines: 28 > > On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:49:42 +0100 (BST), J.K.Ogden@exeter.ac.uk said: > > CMOS i.c's require that their inputs do not exceed Vdd at any time otherwise > > failure is probable. In the sam coupe, the 12v rail falls before the 5v rail. > > I believe this leaves the video chip open to attack. > > On the other hand, if you used the switch on the back of the Sam to turn it > off then there probably wouldn't have been a problem... > > imc > That is not always possible with flakey 240v inputs :))) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ****************************************************************************** J.K.Ogden E-Mail : J.K.Ogden@exeter.ac.uk TALK : se94jko.eng.exeter.ac.uk ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 13:10:07 1996 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:06:16 +0100 (BST) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@larch.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... In-Reply-To: <96Oct23.111128+0100_met.46932-86+1@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1767 Lines: 34 I've just been reading all this stuff about the new C compiler. It's an excellent idea. I would vote on a standard ANSI C compiler first and then develope C++ afterwards (using the new C) And although I'm not exactly the world greatest programmer, I would like to help in the developement in any way I can. It's about time I contributed properly to the SAM world rather than ask losts of basic questions. I'm a fairly good C and Pascal programmer (but not really that good at assembly), so I'd be happy to beta-test and debug.. One more thing, before I go, (might aswell keep it on this one email rather than write a second one), I have thoughts about writing some MIDI tools on the SAM (mixture of m/c and BASIC and maybe even that C). Basically, it was intended for my Keyboard but the first project is to play standard GM MIDI files (billions on the net) through the SAM to a General MIDI keyboard. Has this been done before (no point in re-inventing the wheel)? I'm not talking about that SAM Sequencer (bit expensive the last time I looked). Anything I do will probably be stuck up on nvg and be at least free. There's no point doing it (except for myself) if nobody here wants it. Like I said before, I want to contribute to the SAM world and this list but my abilities are some-what limited.. And at least I know a thing or two about MIDI programming........ -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 13:19:12 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:18:22 GMT Subject: Power supply Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <1F4AC4B6304@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 459 Lines: 9 Just while we are on the subject of power supplies, I recently bought a Sam power supply from Bob after my old one died. The problem is that the new power supply emits an extremely irritating and loud noise. The buzz starts off quite loud when the power supply is switched on and before long becomes deafening - its hard to use my Sam for long periods of time now without getting a headache. Any ideas how to solve to get rid of this buzz? Gavin Smith From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 13:27:08 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:24:26 +0100 (BST) From: "Appendixless-Boy .." To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Driver and C - dull heading huh? In-Reply-To: <8081E044A@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 425 Lines: 15 On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, j.d.teare wrote: > > These last few days have, as somebody else mentioned, thrown up some > great ideas on the list and if we can all pool our ideas and > knowledge then we might start seeing some life injected into the > unusually quiet SAM scene. Better than all the backstabbing anyway ... :) Keep it up ... All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... Lee. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 13:27:09 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:23:39 +0100 (BST) From: "Appendixless-Boy .." To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply In-Reply-To: <96Oct23.155218+0100_met.46934-79+6@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 223 Lines: 12 On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Simon Cooke wrote: > > But... if you want to go for that... I see your C++ and raise you Java... > Java, arghh! All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... Lee. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 13:27:10 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:22:48 +0100 (BST) From: "Appendixless-Boy .." To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Proposed object form In-Reply-To: <199610240849.KAA27519@dxmint.cern.ch> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1054 Lines: 28 On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Allan Skillman wrote: > > The SAM has quite a nice memory paging setup, so we should take advantage Does it ?? > of this. I propose that each object has a base segment of 0 to 32K, loaded > in at section AB - this also has the advantage that section A can be > write locked, which might be useful - a simple form of memory management if > you like. ... and the disadvantage that you've then lost access to all the system variables, interrupt handlers etc. etc. unless you page them in at CD which seems like a bit of a waste of time to me ... > +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Now available! XCoupe, the one and only SAM Coupe emulator | > | *** http://www.hep.ucl.ac.uk/~ajs/xcoupe *** | > +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ If only I could find a copy of the xpm libraries I might be able to get it to compile .... All in my humble opinion folks, so don't get _too_ aggro if I've offended ... Lee. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 13:34:18 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:32:08 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: The Sam User List II Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2448 Lines: 77 The Sam User List II -------------------- Somehow I've been blagged into doing this again, I blame a combination of Frode for suggesting it and me for agreeing :) Ian Dalziel - 100717.2266@compuserve.com Ian Collier - Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk Allan Skillman - allan@hpopb1.cern.ch Arne di Russo - ar@RMnet.it Ben Versteeg - ben@charm.il.ft.hse.nl Brian Gaff - briansam@bgserv.demon.co.uk Dave Hooper - d.c.hooper@sms.ed.ac.uk Stefan Drissen - drissen@pi.net - Stefan_Drissen@nl.coopers.com Geoff Winkless - geoffw@jumper.mcc.ac.uk Gianni Zamperini - gianni.zamperini@galactica.it - BBKaneda@galactica.it David Gommeren - gommerd@interpac.be Matt Round - malevolent@netwales.co.uk Colin Anderton - plpmyljja@hhn1.nott.ac.uk Simon Owen - si@obobo.demon.co.uk Simon Cooke - simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk - Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk Jon Hampton - Jon_Hampton@iconex.mactel.org Frode Tennebo - ft@edh.ericsson.se Dean Liversidge - dean@error.demon.co.uk Diggory Gray - graydj@phymat.bham.ac.uk Dave Whitmore - davewhitmore@enterprise.net Will Bowring - 9548777@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK Gavin Smith - smith-gc@ulst.ac.uk Tim Paveley - unc@dplinux.sund.ac.uk - unc@mono.org Matthew Bealing - matthew@bealing.avel.co.uk Keith Turner - keith@cursci.co.uk Bob Brenchley - FormatPub@aol.com Andrew Gale - ee31ag@surrey.ac.uk Simon Goodwin - simon@studio.woden.com Dan Doore - DOOREDJ@parliament.uk Neil Maynard - mne2@cableol.co.uk Robert van der Veeke - rjvveeke@caiw.nl David Zambonini - D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk Paul Walker - P.R.Walker@csv.warwick.ac.uk - csuan@csv.warwick.ac.uk Dave Handley - d.handley@lancaster.ac.uk Justin Skists - c93js1@dmu.ac.uk Andrew Collier - asc25@cam.ac.uk Lee Willis - l.willis@comp.brad.ac.uk Slawomir Grodkowski - slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de Luke Trevorrow - blackadder@orinocco.demon.co.uk Sebastian Palucha - palucha@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl Johnna Teare - j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk Steve Harding - sh5655@bristol.ac.uk Tim Wells - tgw1001@cam.ac.uk David Mundon - davidm@enterprise.net Ben Curren - ELA95BEC@sheffield.ac.uk Rob Partington - rjp@heffer.demon.co.uk J.K Ogden - se94jko@ex.ac.uk Jeff Crawford? - samcoupe@cadderly.demon.co.uk The unknowns: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com 106350.2555@compuserve.com ffyon@enterprise.net C.F.CABLE@UCLAN.AC.UK Gouranga@aol.com Compiled by Dan Doore 124/10/96 Contributions from: Frode Tennebo Ian Collier From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 13:41:36 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:41:48 +0000 Subject: Re: Power supply Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <5405621517A@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 437 Lines: 13 Gavin said sommat like: > Any > ideas how to solve to get rid of this buzz? Kick it hard. No, really! Works for mine. 'Cept mine starts off loud and gradually gets quieter... davee +--------------------------------------+---------------------+ | doubleback : complete bobbins | torus?- 1997? it'll | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636 | never get finished | +--------------------------------------+---------------------+ From imc Thu Oct 24 13:45:12 1996 Subject: Re: Power supply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:45:12 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <1F4AC4B6304@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> from "Gavin Smith" at Oct 24, 96 01:18:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 280 Lines: 8 On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:18:22 GMT, Gavin Smith said: > The problem is > that the new power supply emits an extremely irritating and loud > noise. I suppose you could check whether the transformer is screwed down properly. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 13:56:24 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:52:57 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Power supply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 715 Lines: 22 > The problem is that the new power supply emits an extremely > irritating and loud noise. [snip] >Any ideas how to solve to get rid of this buzz? Mine also buzzes like a bastard - that's why it's as far away from me as it's little leads will take it. But, it's always done it so I've never really worried about it :) When I was replacing my sound chip a while back I was having a real job removing the solder from the board, I tried a solder sucker and some desoldering braid stuff but eventually resorted to brute force and lots of heat ;-) Any better ideas since I might have a go at replacing my video chip at some time and since it's clustered with componants I could do with a better solution. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 14:09:52 1996 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 14:04:35 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... - Reply - Reply - Reply In-Reply-To: <9610241129.AA04420@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 219 Lines: 12 On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > > See (some of) you in Gloucester! > I thought you weren't going... No, I only said I didn't know whether or not I was going. Now I know that I am. Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 14:16:50 1996 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 14:15:49 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Power supply In-Reply-To: <1F4AC4B6304@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1344 Lines: 28 On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Gavin Smith wrote: > The problem is > that the new power supply emits an extremely irritating and loud > noise. The buzz starts off quite loud when the power supply is > switched on and before long becomes deafening - its hard to use my > Sam for long periods of time now without getting a headache. Any > ideas how to solve to get rid of this buzz? I can relate to that! Part of the (extremely long) saga of my Sam powerpacks was (two power packs along the line) I ended up with a similarly loud one. Trying to tighten the screws between the transformer and the board/case made no difference - I think the transformer itself was at fault. I did try to replace the transformer with one from another power pack, but for some inexplicable reason I ended up with a black-and-white tv signal (despite being very careful not to touch the modulator board...) I did end up buying a new one from Greenweld Electronics - and after dutifully checking the output voltages (and adjusting the UHF tuning a bit to get rid of some noise) it now works perfectly, and as quietly as any transformer could reasonably be. I don't know why these power supplies are supposed to be dodgy, but aside from a slightly damaged case there's nothing wrong with mine. (I hope. Please don't tune in next week for another episode....) Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 14:57:36 1996 Subject: Re: Power supply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 14:55:47 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <1F4AC4B6304@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> from "Gavin Smith" at Oct 24, 96 01:18:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct24.145637+0100_met.46931-84+39@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 785 Lines: 19 > > Just while we are on the subject of power supplies, I recently bought > a Sam power supply from Bob after my old one died. The problem is > that the new power supply emits an extremely irritating and loud > noise. The buzz starts off quite loud when the power supply is > switched on and before long becomes deafening - its hard to use my > Sam for long periods of time now without getting a headache. Any > ideas how to solve to get rid of this buzz? > > Gavin Smith There's two large brass screws in the PSU that hold the transformer core in place. Give them a few twists with a screwdriver (don't force them though), and see if that helps at all.[1] Simon [1] Usually this probelem seems to be due to the transformer bouncing up and down inside the box. Nasty eh? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 15:39:07 1996 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:36:19 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961024103618_1745984993@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Power supply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 706 Lines: 18 In a message dated 24/10/96 13:19:12, you write: >Just while we are on the subject of power supplies, I recently bought >a Sam power supply from Bob after my old one died. The problem is >that the new power supply emits an extremely irritating and loud >noise. The buzz starts off quite loud when the power supply is >switched on and before long becomes deafening - its hard to use my >Sam for long periods of time now without getting a headache. Any >ideas how to solve to get rid of this buzz? > >Gavin Smith > > If it is still under warranty Gavin, then send it back and we will swop it. Or if you are coming to the show then give us a ring Friday and I will take one to the show for you. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 15:39:07 1996 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:36:49 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961024103623_1812275937@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Steps to desolder - 1, 2, 3... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1444 Lines: 37 In a message dated 24/10/96 13:31:03, you write: >When I was replacing my sound chip a while back I was having a real >job removing the solder from the board, I tried a solder sucker and >some desoldering braid stuff but eventually resorted to brute force >and lots of heat ;-) > >Any better ideas since I might have a go at replacing my video chip >at some time and since it's clustered with componants I could do with >a better solution. > >Dan. It is easy Dan, even I can do it. Start by removing the SAM board from the base plate, then follow these steps. First, use a sharp pair of cutters to cur the legs from the chip right up close to the plastic body. Second. Hold the board between you knees so that the part you want to work on is sticking up in the air (no smutty jokes please). Now hold each chip-leg in turn with a pair of fine nose pliers and apply the hot soldering iron to the back of the board in the right place. Each leg should then come out cleanly. Finally, turn the board round so that you can apply the tip to the top side of the board. Line-up your solder sucker with each hole in turn on the bottom. Touch the iron to the selected hole on the top side and SUCK-IT. The holes should now be very clean and ready for you to insirt a chip holder and solder it in place. This way has worked for me several times so give it a go. The secrets are: never to over-heat the board; and never use too much force. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 16:01:10 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 15:54:19 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Steps to desolder - 1, 2, 3... - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 406 Lines: 19 > It is easy Dan, even I can do it. Start by removing the SAM board > from the base plate, then follow these steps. > > First, use a sharp pair of cutters to cut the legs from the chip > right up close to the plastic body. [snip] That's what I was doing, maybe I need a better sucker :) Or, it could be that my iron is only an 11 watt jobba and not getting the solder hot enough to suck up. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 16:07:35 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 15:56:43 GMT Subject: Re: Buzzing Power supply Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <1F74FC76768@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 456 Lines: 15 > If it is still under warranty Gavin, then send it back and we will swop it. > Or if you are coming to the show then give us a ring Friday and I will take > one to the show for you. > > Bob. > Thanks for the offer about the show Bob, but as I live in Belfast, its a little too far sadly. However I think the power supply should be still under warranty as I bought it in June or so - maybe you could check for me? Thanks for your help, Gavin Smith From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 17:50:25 1996 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 17:47:11 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Wells To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 822 Lines: 18 On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Justin Skists wrote: > I have thoughts about writing some MIDI tools on the > SAM (mixture of m/c and BASIC and maybe even that C). Basically, it was > intended for my Keyboard but the first project is to play standard GM MIDI > files (billions on the net) through the SAM to a General MIDI keyboard. A good idea. I personally use the Sequencer, which has an extra which converts all those GM files to it's own format. However the extra doesn't seem to work very well - not sure whether it's the program, or my downloading & transferring to SAM that's the problem. A seperate player would certainly be useful. Can't comment on the price of the sequencer now - got mine from SAMCo, but it has been through two major revisions since then. Main program appears very professional though. Tim W. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 19:05:20 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 19:01:23 GMT+0 Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <22F78A233D@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1309 Lines: 25 > Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:06:16 +0100 (BST) > From: Justin Skists > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > One more thing, before I go, (might aswell keep it on this one email rather > than write a second one), I have thoughts about writing some MIDI tools on the > SAM (mixture of m/c and BASIC and maybe even that C). Basically, it was > intended for my Keyboard but the first project is to play standard GM MIDI files > (billions on the net) through the SAM to a General MIDI keyboard. > > Has this been done before (no point in re-inventing the wheel)? I'm not talking > about that SAM Sequencer (bit expensive the last time I looked). Anything I do > will probably be stuck up on nvg and be at least free. There's no point doing > it (except for myself) if nobody here wants it. Yes, do it, immediately, now today, please! The MIDI sequencer by Tim Humphries is a mite expensive so I recently plumped for some stuff that Derek Morgan was selling in the PD. And it wasn't very user friendly. I'd love to see some MIDI software on the SAM, but (here I go again) if we're going to be writing new software, why not try and make it compatible with the Driver environment? Johnna From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 23:23:54 1996 Date: 24 Oct 96 18:21:17 EDT From: Ian Dalziel <100717.2266@compuserve.com> To: SAM Users Subject: Re: A SICk powersupply, methinks... Message-Id: <961024222116_100717.2266_EHU101-1@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 569 Lines: 22 >> "j.d.teare", INTERNET:j.d.teare@UCLAN.AC.UK << >> a really cheap source to get SAM PSU's from is Greenweld in Southampton << Nev says they acquired a stack of faulty units which deliver the wrong voltage, so a putting a meter across the output before attaching the Sam might be advisable. >> 29 Park Road, Southampton << 27 Park Road, Southampton, SO15 3UQ 01703 236363 Fax 01703 236307 100014.1463@compuserve.com http://www.herald.co.uk/clients/G/Greenweld/greenweld.html And before you give them your address, clear a space for all the catalogues... Ian From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Oct 24 23:59:57 1996 Message-Id: <9610242258.AA30872@mars.cableol.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Neil Maynard To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:02:54 +0000 Subject: Driver Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 273 Lines: 9 Just a quickie. How much in Driver and where can I get it from ? Neil Maynard +-------------------------------+ |Neil Maynard | |E-Mail: mne2@cableol.co.uk | +-------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 08:14:22 1996 Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 08:13:05 +0100 (BST) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <22F78A233D@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> from "j.d.teare" at Oct 24, 96 07:01:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Oct25.081317+0100_met.46937-84+59@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 586 Lines: 17 > Humphries is a mite expensive so I recently plumped for some stuff > that Derek Morgan was selling in the PD. And it wasn't very user > friendly. I'd love to see some MIDI software on the SAM, but (here I > go again) if we're going to be writing new software, why not try and > make it compatible with the Driver environment? > > Johnna I'm not 100% positive, but I think that the MIDI interrupt might come through a bit too frequently for Driver to be able to handle with its interrupt latency... Though if you over-rode the Interrupt code with your own... hmmm.... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 08:59:32 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 08:56:39 +0100 (BST) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... In-Reply-To: <96Oct25.081317+0100_met.46937-84+59@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1179 Lines: 28 On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, Simon Cooke wrote: A couple points:- > > Humphries is a mite expensive so I recently plumped for some stuff > > that Derek Morgan was selling in the PD. And it wasn't very user > > friendly. I'd love to see some MIDI software on the SAM, but (here I > > go again) if we're going to be writing new software, why not try and > > make it compatible with the Driver environment? 1) I don't have Driver. > I'm not 100% positive, but I think that the MIDI interrupt might come > through a bit too frequently for Driver to be able to handle with its > interrupt latency... > > Though if you over-rode the Interrupt code with your own... 2) I'm not exactly an expert at coding machine code... I will start the MIDI player over the weekend... (Wish me luck!) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 09:36:52 1996 Message-Id: <199610250834.KAA19850@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 25 Oct 96 10:34:43 METDST In-Reply-To: <96Oct25.081317+0100_met.46937-84+59@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no>; from "Simon Cooke" at Oct 25, 96 8:13 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1312 Lines: 25 > I'm not 100% positive, but I think that the MIDI interrupt might come > through a bit too frequently for Driver to be able to handle with its > interrupt latency... > > Though if you over-rode the Interrupt code with your own... Driver applications run in interrupt mode 1, and lie in section AB, so the interrupts always jump to application code (MI and NMI). As long as the application calls the driver frame interrupt code (and usually the nmi code) after it has done is stuff everything will be ok. If the required timing needs to be really good, the application can always suspend the GUI while it carries out the task. Allan +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Now available! XCoupe, the one and only SAM Coupe emulator | | *** http://www.hep.ucl.ac.uk/~ajs/xcoupe *** | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ | Allan Skillman | "There are five flavours of resons, the | | HEPP Group | elementary particles of magic : up, down, | | University College London | sideways, sex-appeal and peppermint." | | Email : ajs@hep.ucl.ac.uk | - Terry Pratchett (Lords and Ladies) | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 09:45:32 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:45:40 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9610250845.AA06860@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Sam User List II X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 92 Lines: 6 Thanks Dan. Now, who on the unknown will be the first to reveal his/her identity? -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 11:17:01 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 06:15:42 -0400 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961025061541_1515011774@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Steps to desolder - 1, 2, 3... - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 263 Lines: 12 In a message dated 24/10/96 14:55:26, you write: >That's what I was doing, maybe I need a better sucker :) > >Or, it could be that my iron is only an 11 watt jobba and >not getting the solder hot enough to suck up. > >Dan. 25 watt Dan, with a fine point. Bob From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 11:33:41 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:28:41 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Down Pegasus, Down... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <33714E77FF@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 219 Lines: 6 Can I just ask - how long does Pegasus hold up the mail for? I've just this minute received a letter via the list from Bob - and the time on it was 6.15. Are there any other mailers available across the Net? Johnna From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 11:38:41 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:38:44 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9610251038.AA10809@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Down Pegasus, Down... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 335 Lines: 10 > > Can I just ask - how long does Pegasus hold up the mail for? I've > just this minute received a letter via the list from Bob - and the > time on it was 6.15. Are there any other mailers available across the > Net? That was because Bob sent it 0615. It has been held up some way along the route, probably the aol end. -Frode From imc Fri Oct 25 11:42:27 1996 Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:42:27 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <96Oct25.081317+0100_met.46937-84+59@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> from "Simon Cooke" at Oct 25, 96 08:13:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 497 Lines: 12 On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 08:13:05 +0100 (BST), Simon Cooke said: > I'm not 100% positive, but I think that the MIDI interrupt might come > through a bit too frequently for Driver to be able to handle with its > interrupt latency... Hey, even the Sam ROM is too slow for MIDI interrupts (I'm not sure but I think the ANYIV is a bit slow as well). Last time I wrote a MIDI application I just completely ignored the interrupts... (If you are doing output then interrupts aren't needed anyway). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 11:59:25 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:55:15 +0100 (BST) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... In-Reply-To: <9610251042.AA06248@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 698 Lines: 17 On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > Hey, even the Sam ROM is too slow for MIDI interrupts (I'm not sure > but I think the ANYIV is a bit slow as well). Last time I wrote a MIDI > application I just completely ignored the interrupts... That makes it easier...(for the player..) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 12:55:25 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:48:07 +0100 From: SL Harding Message-Id: <199610251148.MAA06817@harrier.fen.bris.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Proposed object form Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: FIm9RzyOWwMUoyaZwnxP8w== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1438 Lines: 30 > > The SAM has quite a nice memory paging setup, > > Er, no it doesn't. Since it pages in blocks of 32K there is only room for > two of them. One of those has to be the program, so you have to juggle with > the other if you want to to anything that requires access to two different > pages. Printing graphics on the screen is particularly difficult. > > Note that if you want interrupts (MI and NMI) to work (and it would not > be friendly to let the machine crash when the user presses the break > button unless the programmer deliberately wants to disable the break > button for some reason) then you have to keep either the ROM or a RAM > page with a collection of restart routines in section A. So then you put > the C librarry in section CD. Presumably, if it wanted to, a C library > routine could call a ROM routine to do something, which is nice. On the > other hand, accessing the screen would be a bit difficult - the library > might have to page itself into section B or have the screen in section B > with ROM in section A. > Here is an idea - why not put main part of the compler on a ROM? this way we can always have it paged into A (or D), use B for the librarys and CD as the workspace. We could fill the C ROM up to the brim with some decent debuggers or even a few standard C librarys. If we are going to the extent of putting it on a ROM we had better do the full works and go for C++! C9 Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 13:11:32 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:10:16 +0100 Message-Id: <96102513101625@morse.ntu.ac.uk> From: CC604050@ntu.ac.uk (A Clarkson - BSC\(H\) COMP SYST/COMP STUD ) To: SAM-USERS@nvg.unit.no Subject: Hallo evribodi! X-Vms-To: SAM-USERS@NVG.UNIT.NO Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 255 Lines: 13 Hello, everyone. It's Allan Clarkson here again, returned after quite a ling break from the mailing list. My new e-mail address is cc604050@ntu.ac.uk the old one is now redundant. Please change it on any websites Righty-ho, what have I missed? Al. From imc Fri Oct 25 13:23:07 1996 Subject: Re: Hallo evribodi! To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:23:07 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <96102513101625@morse.ntu.ac.uk> from "CC604050@ntu.ac.uk \(\)>" at Oct 25, 96 01:10:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 344 Lines: 10 On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:10:16 +0100, CC604050@ntu.ac.uk \(\)> said: > Righty-ho, what have I missed? Well I have message logs up until 10 days ago on http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/oucl/users/ian.collier/Misc/sam-users/ (I created this because James Curry and Andrew requested it, but according to the logs they haven't bothered looking...) imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 13:31:17 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:28:02 +0100 Message-Id: <96102513280265@morse.ntu.ac.uk> From: CC604050@ntu.ac.uk (A Clarkson - BSC\(H\) COMP SYST/COMP STUD ) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hallo evribodi! X-Vms-To: SMTP%"sam-users@nvg.unit.no" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 103 Lines: 6 Yeah. James is like that. I'm seeing him later on today so I'll tell him, Tsk, some people, eh? Al. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 15:55:37 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:51:45 +0100 From: D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk (D M Zambonini) Message-Id: <199610251451.PAA06052@valyant.cs.cf.ac.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Power supply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: xJhj53LHjvNrs9tbBo+gTA== Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 538 Lines: 16 > > The problem is > > that the new power supply emits an extremely irritating and loud > > noise. [ 52 million different suggestions snipped ] Errmmm... well, my one started doing that a while back just a couple of weeks before it grew red hot and melted the casing... the reason? Two of the four diodes that made the rectifier were screwed up (not down as various people would have you believe) :) And yes, it worked fine after replacing them.. will wonders never cease? DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 17:50:18 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:46:16 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hallo evribodi! In-Reply-To: <9610251223.AA06495@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 364 Lines: 13 On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > (I created this because James Curry and Andrew requested it, but according > to the logs they haven't bothered looking...) I haven't had time! You should know, having been a fresher student in the distant past.... I will get around to it, when I've got around to one or two other things first. Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 18:09:18 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:06:48 +0100 (BST) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... In-Reply-To: <199610250834.KAA19850@dxmint.cern.ch> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2540 Lines: 64 On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, Allan Skillman wrote: > Driver applications run in interrupt mode 1, and lie in section AB, s= o > the interrupts always jump to application code (MI and NMI). As long = as > the application calls the driver frame interrupt code (and usually > the nmi code) after it has done is stuff everything will be ok. If th= e > required timing needs to be really good, the application can always s= uspend > the GUI while it carries out the task. Well, that's okay for outputting to the keyboard. However if you want t= o input data then this isn't going to work. The application never knows w= hen a data byte is going to appear, and with DRiVER unfortunately you can't guarantee that your application is going to be paged in at any particul= ar moment in time. If a byte appears while DRiVER is, eg, doing something with the screen, you've lost the data.=20 As for writing DRiVER applications, I did try once (SamMines was not originally going to be a stand-alone program) but I didn't really like = the way DRiVER expects absolutely everything to be done in one exactly specific way (which may not necessarily have been documented); I wanted better graphics than MODE3 allows; I didn't want to have to work around Steve Taylor's bugs in addition to my own; basically to write my own windows routines produced a better finished result. Some people may be interested that I am currently working on a windows-style system (with = the programmer in mind, so application writers actually are shielded from t= he low-level workings) which, with any luck, will fulfil the above criteri= a as well as being easy to use, nice to look at, efficient, powerful etc = etc etc. As has been well noted I'm very busy at the moment so I can't comm= ent on when this will be released. However, I intend to shift that date forward by writing the program in two halves - at first there will be n= o DOS control, the system will only be a common user interface for applications, but people can start writing code at that stage and I'll make the tech info available appropriately. Later on it will (read: may= ) become a full operating system, hence the name: WinDOS. If you ask me a= t the show, I'll show you the current version. Meanwhile, Sam Midi Sequencer version 3 by Tim Humphries is available f= rom Persona at, I think, about =A330. I reviewed it in Zodiac and gave it (= if I remeber correctly) about 80%. Not bad, but could do better - for far mo= re reasons than I should go into here. Buy a copy of the magazine on Saturday. From imc Fri Oct 25 18:15:05 1996 Subject: Re: The Great Egg Race... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:15:05 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "A.S. Collier" at Oct 25, 96 06:06:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1424 Lines: 35 On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:06:48 +0100 (BST), A.S. Collier said: > On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, Allan Skillman wrote: > > Driver applications run in interrupt mode 1, and lie in section AB, s= > o > > the interrupts always jump to application code (MI and NMI). As long = > as > > the application calls the driver frame interrupt code (and usually > > the nmi code) after it has done is stuff everything will be ok. If th= > e > > required timing needs to be really good, the application can always s= > uspend > > the GUI while it carries out the task. YYYYYEEEEUUUUUCCCCHHHH! That's what you get for using Pine, I suppose... > Well, that's okay for outputting to the keyboard. However if you want t= > o > input data then this isn't going to work. The application never knows w= > hen > a data byte is going to appear, and with DRiVER unfortunately you can't > guarantee that your application is going to be paged in at any particul= > ar > moment in time. If a byte appears while DRiVER is, eg, doing something > with the screen, you've lost the data.=20 Well he did say 'suspend the GUI' for a reason, you know. In other words, if you suspend the GUI you can then do your input in peace. The idea is that you would have to tell the program you are going to do some input so it can suspend the GUI. Would you really write a program that started inputting things before the user said "I'm going to input some things"? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 19:02:50 1996 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 19:01:50 +0100 (BST) From: Tim Paveley To: Sam Users Mailing List Subject: The Show Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 509 Lines: 14 Just bought my train ticket, found out there are engineering works on route. Oh well! See some of you there! And if I seem to be ignoring you say hello coz I'm dead shy normally and I think I've missed out on talking to loads of people before coz of that :) ....@/ .........................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - http://dplinux.sund.ac.uk/~unc/ Staff of the Monochrome BBS - http://www.mono.org/ Owner of a Sam Coupe - http://www.mono.org/~unc/Coupe/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Oct 25 22:07:39 1996 Message-Id: <199610252107.WAA05818@mail.enterprise.net> From: David Munden To: sam-users Subject: Re: SimCoupe and new project Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:02:59 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 584 Lines: 14 > have options. To answer a question given by someone in this list, SimCoupe > does support the external memory - up to 4Mb. This is selectable in the > X version, but for the boot/root setup I set it to 0 to conserve memory - > which is already being used for the Ramdisk. Would it be possible for you to put the option back in the next release as I have got 40 meg of memory on my pc and would appreciate being able to make use of some of it. Also will the next release automatically assume that there are two floppy drives attached like this current release does? David Munden From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sat Oct 26 14:04:32 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 14:00:32 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Damnation Dalmation Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <4DF37D7BCA@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 152 Lines: 8 Hello, I realise your probably all at the show but can somebody who is listening before 3pm tell me the number for Dalmation BBS. Thank you, Johnna From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sat Oct 26 14:41:07 1996 Message-Id: <199610261340.OAA23631@mail.enterprise.net> From: David Munden To: sam-users Subject: Re: Damnation Dalmation Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 14:36:55 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 152 Lines: 5 > I realise your probably all at the show but can somebody who is > listening before 3pm tell me the number for Dalmation BBS. Yes it`s 01744 614150 From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sat Oct 26 21:52:41 1996 Message-Id: <199610262150.WAA15187@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Where are they? Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 22:52:16 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 284 Lines: 8 It has been quiet the last 24 hours or so, where did everybody go? Only joking, I hope that everybody had a good time, and I will see you there next time. Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Red leader here: watch out we are running out of diskspace real soon! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sun Oct 27 13:16:13 1996 From: "j.d.teare" Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 14:14:58 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Doctor Foster went... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <662A4C1DAF@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 424 Lines: 15 Hello all, So how was the show then? Hope it was a great success for everyone involved. I was going to try and make it but: a) I probably would have gotten lost on the way to Gloucester (England is a lot bigger than the Isle of Man - I'm not used to it all!) b) I forgot Anyway, I'm sure we'll be hearing some of the stories, new ideas and events that happened over the list so I'd better leave y'all to it! Johnna From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 07:38:08 1996 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:38:43 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9610280738.AA16540@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: New files X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 199 Lines: 5 Just created ./demos/MNEMOtech and moved some .sbt files into it. Can somebody verify the validity of what is claimed in the sbt_note.txt file? I don't like the idea of another file-format. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 09:48:23 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:47:42 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Welcome to my nightmare... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 542 Lines: 29 Gloucester show was good. Getting trapped overnight in Gloucester whilst pissed as a rat was not so good. Falling down the Hotel stairs was not good. Getting an alarm call at 6am becuase the clocks had been put back *twice* was not good. Having all trains to Swindon cancelled was not so good. Two hours on a coach trying to get to Swindon was also not good. You get the picture. Apart from that catalogue of disasters, a good time all round :) A more detailed report will be : a) forthcoming. b) coming from someone else. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 11:46:45 1996 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <8021.199610281142@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Bits and pieces To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:42:47 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 320 Lines: 8 Okay... here I have the C source for the Fred 59 menu, lots of text files on SoundBlaster / SBPro, Adlib, GUS, etc., and Space Debris. The problem is, I can't remember who wanted what... any reminders gratefully received! (Once I find out how, I'll put 'em on my web page, but I haven't got the hang of HTML yet) Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 12:17:06 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: printl To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:13:00 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <8021.199610281142@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> from "Mr P R Walker" at Oct 28, 96 11:42:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 543 Lines: 17 A few notes on the PRINTL line which someone was asking about: it is low when the CPU is addressing i/o ports in the range 232-239. You therefore need to decode just PRINTL, A0, A1, A2, WRL, and RDL. (IORQL is included in PRINTL). Ports 232, 233 are used for the parallel printer Ports 234, 235 are used for the second parallel printer, and hence is free on most SAMs Ports 236-239 are used by the serial interface in the COMMs interface. The Sambus also uses one port for the real-time clock. I think it's port 239, but I'll check. -ANdy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 12:25:33 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:22:03 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam User List Update Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 66 Lines: 8 Believe it of not: Colin MacDonald - Gouranga@aol.com :) Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 12:25:33 1996 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:15:53 GMT From: Diggory Gray (PWE) Message-Id: <199610281215.MAA14647@ugs2> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: SAM fixed... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 540 Lines: 13 I found that as Bob said I wan't getting a 12V supply to my SAM I assume that this only affects a particular chip on the SAM for the video display ( 1377 ? ) So I cut out the 12V wire in the SAMs PSU and got a 12V supply connected in instead and 'ping' my SAM works OK with a TV now. I think this the same problem DMZ had with his power supply - ie the power resistor getting very hot and melting the case because of diode failures. What diodes do I need to replace then ( I haven't got their part nos. ) Thanks for the help. Diggory From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 12:26:29 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:24:54 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Bits and pieces - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 277 Lines: 12 > Okay... here I have the C source for the Fred 59 menu, > lots of text files on SoundBlaster / SBPro, Adlib, GUS, > etc., and Space Debris. The problem is, I can't remember > who wanted what... any reminders gratefully received! Well, it was me who wanted the C... Dan. From imc Mon Oct 28 12:31:12 1996 Subject: Re: Welcome to my nightmare... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:31:12 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Doore" at Oct 28, 96 09:47:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 345 Lines: 9 On Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:47:42 +0100, Dan Doore said: > Getting an alarm call at 6am becuase the clocks had > been put back *twice* was not good. Presumably they had put them forward instead of back (if they had put them back twice they would have been an hour late, and I presume you are not complaining that you wanted to be up at 5...). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 12:31:51 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:28:32 GMT Subject: Clock Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <254DC4F07E0@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 163 Lines: 4 What ever happened to the clock that WC were going to bring out? We really do need one now that the Sambus is no longer made. Still no sign of Z2 fanzine anyone? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 12:35:00 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:32:38 GMT Subject: Sam C - scanf problem Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <254EDD033D4@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 538 Lines: 10 You may remember I (and John Teare I think) were having problems with the scanf function. I don't know enough about C to find out what the problem is, but when I try to compile a program with scanf in it, I get "scanf - undefined symbol" or something like that. This is not me making typing mistakes, because I've carefully copied a few programs from Fred, Format etc and it still doesn't work. I've sent Sam C back to Fred already and the new copy still doesnt work. Could someone comfirm that it really does work?? Gavin Smith From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 12:42:21 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:38:41 GMT Subject: Re: Welcome to my nightmare... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <25507B621E8@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 585 Lines: 11 > On Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:47:42 +0100, Dan Doore said: > > Getting an alarm call at 6am becuase the clocks had > > been put back *twice* was not good. Which reminds me - on Saturday night I had my Windows 95 PC on. When 2am arrived, Win95 informed me that it was putting the clock on my PC back an hour. Nice feature I thought. Until an hour later when 2am(GMT) arrived again - Win95 obviously thought it would be funny to take another hour off. Next morning, switched PC on again and found, for some reason, it had taken another 3 hours off. Hurrah! That's just sodding great From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 12:47:30 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:41:38 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Welcome to my nightmare... - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 463 Lines: 17 > > Getting an alarm call at 6am becuase the clocks had > > been put back *twice* was not good. > > Presumably they had put them forward instead of back > (if they had put them back twice they would have been > an hour late, and I presume you are not complaining that > you wanted to be up at 5...). I wanted to be up and out at 8am so christ alone knows what they did to the clocks, it makes my head hurt just thinking of it (or even remembering it :) D. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mon Oct 28 12:51:38 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:48:09 +0100 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam C - scanf problem - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1002 Lines: 29 > You may remember I (and John Teare I think) were > having problems with the scanf function. I don't > know enough about C to find out what the problem is, > but when I try to compile a program with scanf in it, > I get "scanf - undefined symbol" or something like that. I get no problems with it finding the function, although the function is not very stable (at least it wasn't the last time I used it) - Are you using the Smart Runtime? I seem to remember this causing me problems so I turned it off. You are (of course) including the STDIO header... :)) > This is not me making typing mistakes, because I've > carefully copied a few programs from Fred, Format etc > and it still doesn't work. I've sent Sam C back to Fred > already and the new copy still doesnt work. Could someone > comfirm that it really does work?? It works for me, but my C disc is heavily modified to use the RAM drive for holding the libraries and compiling - although that shouldn't make a differance. Dan. From imc Mon Oct 28 12:51:39 1996 Subject: Re: Welcome to my nightmare... - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:51:39 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Doore" at Oct 28, 96 12:41:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 428 Lines: 13 On Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:41:38 +0100, Dan Doore said: > > Presumably they had put them forward instead of back > I wanted to be up and out at 8am so christ alone > knows what they did to the clocks Actually I've just told you what they did to the clocks. If it's 7am in the "old" time, then the correct time is 6am since the clocks have moved back. If they put theirs forward by mistake then they would think it is 8am. imc