From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 09:48:28 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: SAMSon specification To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:39:22 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9611190830.AA00740@asmal.edh-net> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Nov 19, 96 09:30:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 92 Lines: 6 Bob, Have you come up with the [sort of] finalised spec for the SAMSon modules yet? -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 10:23:24 1996 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:20:24 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Like a virgin? Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <1457C55746@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 430 Lines: 15 > > From: David Ledbury > > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > > Subject: Like a virgin? > > Date: 17 November 1996 01:58 > > > > > > Anyone fancy a summary of SAMSON ideas for a virgin to the newsgroup? > > I would if I had the time to digest all of them! ^^^^^^^^ And the key word here is DIGEST. Johnna Pig Teare (j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk) "They call me Mad The Swine" From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 10:23:30 1996 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:14:35 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Games Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <14429E41F9@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 219 Lines: 11 > On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:10:57 GMT+0, Johnna Teare said: > > Thru' the Wall. Wow! > > Isn't it "Thro' the wall"? > > imc > Erm....ha! (I think) Johnna Pig Teare (j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk) "They call me Mad The Swine" From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 10:23:30 1996 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:28:29 GMT+0 Subject: Re: ARMs and Feet Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <14870244D5@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 707 Lines: 21 Hello, > I still vote for the Computer in the Keyboard, makes it stand out from the > rest, less space needed. The blue/black feets can stay forever, that is the > Sam? No, no, no. When my girlfriend (average woman off the street type person) first saw my SAM she was amazed to hear that it was only built in 1989 - said it looked like something out of the prehistoric age. Computers in keyboard have very few plus points as far as I can see - they look cheap, they are a relic of a byegone age when Vic 20's ruled the land and when the Banyan Tree was causing lost souls problems. > Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics > Johnna Pig Teare (j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk) "They call me Mad The Swine" From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 10:23:30 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:50:51 GMT Message-Id: <199611190950.JAA18310@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ARMs and Feet From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 349 Lines: 14 On Nov 19, 1996 09:29:22, '"Robert van der Veeke" ' wrote: >I still vote for the Computer in the Keyboard, makes it stand out from the >rest, less space needed. The blue/black feets can stay forever, that is the >Sam? -- I thought the idea was to use a "standard" case in order to save money. Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 10:24:20 1996 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:23:22 GMT+0 Subject: Re: NSSS Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <146F02749A@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 546 Lines: 17 Hello, > And as I said, Yorkshire in Feb is a little too cold for me. Now if someone > would like to put on a show in the South of France.... Could do with > renewing my tan - don't like sunbeds, bad for the face. Blimey! /It/ buys all the SAM software and says it's too cheap, and then it bemoans poor Yorkshire, preferring sunny France. Bob, hassle this thing for some SAMSon funding! :) > Samsboss. > (Thank you for your enquiry, please keep in contact. LOL.) > Johnna Pig Teare (j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk) "They call me Mad The Swine" From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 10:50:21 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119103018.008f62a8@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:30:18 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SOS - Screen Colours. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 401 Lines: 12 At 03:33 PM 11/18/96 GMT, you wrote: >> The principal behind the way it all worked is fine (well for the colours), >> although it's more correctly called temporal aliasing. > >No, it's NOT called temporal aliasing. That means something **slightly** >different. Trust me.... ;) Are you *sure*? I'm pretty sure that the colour-flashing technique is based on the concept of temporal aliasing... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 10:50:29 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:15:10 GMT Message-Id: <199611191015.KAA18856@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: NSSS From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 465 Lines: 13 On Nov 19, 1996 09:23:22, 'Johnna Teare ' wrote: >Blimey! /It/ buys all the SAM software and says it's too cheap, and >then it bemoans poor Yorkshire, preferring sunny France. Bob, hassle >this thing for some SAMSon funding! -- My programming abilities are limited, my hardware is only theory. But if buying things helps then you can count on me to buy any new hardware and software that comes out. Samsboss. (Looking forward) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 10:51:15 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119102724.008ed2b8@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:27:24 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 467 Lines: 14 At 02:12 PM 11/18/96 +0000, you wrote: >.. it's just that it seemed to make sense to get the ARM to do the >printing. More efficient that way, (possibly), especially considering >the suggestion (by, who, again?) that the ARM could do loads of other >dedicated acceleration tasks (window hotspot detection, graphic >scaling, etc) Very true. I'm planning a text-only mode (in software) for it ... just so that I can do my Termite stuff realllllly quickly ;) Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 10:52:01 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119103227.008fbc98@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:32:27 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 224 Lines: 8 At 04:37 PM 11/18/96 +0000, you wrote: >Ah.. That wasn't the one I got.. It had the normal flap and the red light keeps >itself on when I switch the machine on or reset it... Hmmmm.... get yourself a Disk Protector ;) Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 10:52:15 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119103229.008f8c38@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:32:29 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: z80 interrupts Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 536 Lines: 17 At 04:47 PM 11/18/96 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >Suppose my z80 is running quite happily and then >it gets an INT interrupt - then my isr services the >interrupt. Then, whilst still servicing the interrupt >I get an NMI - does the NMI get serviced straight >away, or does it have to wait until the INT is >finished with? (I know that if an NMI occurs during >the servicing of an NMI then it has to wait, but >what about this case?) Umm.... actually it'll get serviced at any point -- even within the servicing of an NMI. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 11:01:53 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119104352.008f9fe0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:43:52 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Butterfly Print revisited Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 488 Lines: 14 At 05:56 PM 11/18/96 +0000, you wrote: [Underlines] >> Ummm... Not sure... I left them out of the print routine, and it'd also >> wreck the design of the rest of the system, so I think I'll leave them out. > >Well I just put a couple of "OR XH" instructions in appropriate places. I /could/ do that, but then I'd have a problem with redrawing the screen if a menu was printed, or with the scrollback buffer... (Not enough spare bits to do the job and keep the speed I'm afraid) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 11:01:54 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119104353.008efff0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:43:53 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 283 Lines: 8 At 06:27 PM 11/18/96 +0000, you wrote: >In fact I can only think of three reasons to display GIFs. They are (1) web >browser, (2) GIF viewer, and (3) miscellaneous image manipulation utility. Add to that list "compact way of transferring sprite data to the graphics card". Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 11:01:54 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119105658.0096cd40@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:56:58 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Memory maps, tricks and traps Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 457 Lines: 13 Dear everyone, Can we please stop talking about specifics with regards to the hardware, and keep the chatter to general design? Because until someone starts designing the hardware and has a good idea of how it all fits together, there's no way of knowing whether something is feasible or not (note: not /possible/ or not, *feasible* or not). All this talk of sharing memory with the Z380 is all well and good, but utterly pointless at this point. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 11:02:34 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119105654.008e2600@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:56:54 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: ARMs and Feet Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 311 Lines: 10 At 09:28 AM 11/19/96 GMT+0, you wrote: >Computers in keyboard have very few plus points as far as I can see - >they look cheap, they are a relic of a byegone age when Vic 20's >ruled the land and when the Banyan Tree was causing lost souls >problems. Not only that, but they're a bugger to upgrade. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 11:02:37 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119104351.008dec90@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:43:51 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: New Screen Modes. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 933 Lines: 24 At 05:51 PM 11/18/96 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:54:04 +0000, Simon Cooke said: >> Yep, it can be used as a processor :) It's designed as such, remember? >> Though I'm planning a series of library routines to use with it -- stuff >> like sorting, painting graphics primitives, 3D calculation, mathematical >> calculation... > >So it will have the commands "plot", "draw", "fill", "sprite" and "just run >the following program, OK?" :-) > >So why bother with the Z380? :-) Good point... at the moment, the Z380 is there to make existing SAM software run *eeeeeek* much faster. ie. Lemmings in 50 frames per second. At least in my mind anyway. The idea is that this graphics card can be plugged into the back of the SAM or into the Z380 accelerator board. >imc (what happens if the graphics processor crashes?...) ^^^^^^^^^^ then it's buggered :) Watchdog timers will probably handle that Simon From imc Tue Nov 19 12:01:34 1996 Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:01:34 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961119104353.008efff0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 19, 96 10:43:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 959 Lines: 19 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:43:53 +0000, Simon Cooke said: > Add to that list "compact way of transferring sprite data to the graphics card". Weeellll... :-) It obviously depends on what hardware there is. Firstly, if we have DMA (that is, the Z380 can just tell the graphics card to go fetch the image from a particular area of memory) then no kind of compression is needed, since it will just slow things down. But if the data is going to be transferred over some kind of I/O link then it would probably be wise to compress it. GIF might not be the best way. For a start, GIF only works on an 8-bit CLUT-based display so GIF is out if we have a 16 or 32 bit display. Also, it's probably best to set the CLUT separately, so there will be no need for the GIF header. After that you can compress the bit image however you like. The problem with GIF is (a) it is patented technology, and (b) it does take a fair amount of memory to create and decode. imc From imc Tue Nov 19 12:03:08 1996 Subject: Re: Butterfly Print revisited To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:03:08 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961119104352.008f9fe0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 19, 96 10:43:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 335 Lines: 9 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:43:52 +0000, Simon Cooke said: > I /could/ do that, but then I'd have a problem with redrawing the screen if > a menu was printed, or with the scrollback buffer... Yes I gather that. I wasn't trying to imply that it would work in Termite. Although ANSI terminals are supposed to have underlining... :-) imc From imc Tue Nov 19 12:03:40 1996 Subject: Re: ARMs and Feet To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:03:40 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <14870244D5@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> from "Johnna Teare" at Nov 19, 96 09:28:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 323 Lines: 9 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:28:29 GMT+0, Johnna Teare said: > Computers in keyboard have very few plus points as far as I can see - > they look cheap, they are a relic of a byegone age when Vic 20's > ruled the land and when the Banyan Tree was causing lost souls > problems. And you can't easily change the keyboard. imc From imc Tue Nov 19 12:04:14 1996 Subject: Re: Like a virgin? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:04:14 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <1457C55746@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> from "Johnna Teare" at Nov 19, 96 09:20:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 253 Lines: 9 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:20:24 GMT+0, Johnna Teare said: > > I would if I had the time to digest all of them! > ^^^^^^^^ > > And the key word here is DIGEST. So why did you underline "f them! " then? :-) imc From imc Tue Nov 19 12:04:34 1996 Subject: Re: Games To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:04:34 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <14429E41F9@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> from "Johnna Teare" at Nov 19, 96 09:14:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 106 Lines: 6 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:14:35 GMT+0, Johnna Teare said: > Erm....ha! (I think) What does that mean? imc From imc Tue Nov 19 12:11:54 1996 Subject: Re: Samson Graphic extras To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:11:54 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <6250901D98@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Nov 18, 96 07:16:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1226 Lines: 29 On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:16:16 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > > Well I guess you could flip the display into a mode where it had a virtual > > screen of 2x2 physical screens and wrapped around at the edges. > screen width x (n x screenheight) screens are straightforward > enough, by changing the pointer to the start of the screen in video > ram. This doesn't do wraparound as I suggested though. The idea of that is that you can scroll down as far as you like without worrying about running out of memory. > A possible option is to have the (n x screenwidth) x > screenheight screen stored in exactly the same way, but with > coordinates reversed Ugh. :-) Wraparound can probably done pretty easily, if the address bus splits up nicely into column and row (in other words, the width and height have to be a power of 2 - if the screen has width 768 then you'll just have to have the virtual screen 4/3 times the width of the real screen). Just put an adder on to each half of the address bus. If you attach this circuit close to the video RAM then you can effectively scroll the screen without the hardware noticing; to all intents and purposes the bytes have in fact moved to different addresses in memory. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 12:17:09 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:49:01 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 392 Lines: 14 > > I seem to remember that the last two bytes in a sector > > hold the track/sector of the next sector to read - or > > have I got the wrong end of the stick? > > Yes, OK, the whole disk (apart from the directory) is one > huge file allocation table... In that case, why is there a sector map in the directory when all that's needed is a referance to the first sector of the file? Dan. From imc Tue Nov 19 12:30:29 1996 Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:30:29 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Doore" at Nov 19, 96 11:49:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 331 Lines: 11 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:49:01 +0000, Dan Doore said: > In that case, why is there a sector map in the directory > when all that's needed is a referance to the first sector > of the file? That's a good question. Call the X Files! (It does help to find free sectors, but that could easily be done in a less wasteful manner). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 12:56:40 1996 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:24:05 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Games Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <176C1C13BB@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 254 Lines: 14 > On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:14:35 GMT+0, Johnna Teare said: > > Erm....ha! (I think) > > What does that mean? Spookily enough, it means exactly what it says. **guffaw!** > imc :) Johnna Pig Teare (j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk) "They call me Mad The Swine" From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 12:56:40 1996 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:38:05 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Like a virgin? Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <17AE685983@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 504 Lines: 17 > On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:20:24 GMT+0, Johnna Teare said: > > > I would if I had the time to digest all of them! > > ^^^^^^^^ > > > > And the key word here is DIGEST. > > So why did you underline "f them! " then? :-) > > imc > Erm...it's got digest underlined on my machine. Must be something to do with the font I'm doing it in eh? Ha! (I'm just doing that to piss you off now :)))) Johnna Pig Teare (j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk) "They call me Mad The Swine" From imc Tue Nov 19 13:32:42 1996 Subject: Re: Like a virgin? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:32:42 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <17AE685983@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> from "Johnna Teare" at Nov 19, 96 12:38:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 520 Lines: 15 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:38:05 GMT+0, Johnna Teare said: > Erm...it's got digest underlined on my machine. Must be something to > do with the font I'm doing it in eh? Oh dear, dear, dear. You aren't stupid enough to use a proportional font for email are you? :-) The penalty you pay for that is not being able to underline things or draw ascii art, or to read mail properly when other people do those things. _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ From imc Tue Nov 19 13:46:38 1996 Subject: Re: Butterfly Print revisited To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:46:38 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <6240F77A4D@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Nov 18, 96 07:12:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 299 Lines: 9 On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:12:39 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > > Well I just put a couple of "OR XH" instructions in appropriate places. > > OR XH? That's a new one on me. Ah. Well I actually meant "OR IXh", but for some unknown reason when I implemented this in my assembler I left off the "I". imc From imc Tue Nov 19 13:50:58 1996 Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:50:58 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <621CC87D75@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Nov 18, 96 07:04:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1231 Lines: 23 On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:04:07 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > Whereas simple bitmaps, is another thing entirely. Sprites, > basically. So if you want a GIF to be displayed, get the Z380 to > decode it and get the 'card to squirt out the resulting bitmap to the > video. But is this any more efficient than, say, getting the Z380 to > decode it directly to the video hardware (assuming, for the sake of > argument, that it could, and at the same speed as the ARM could) ? > Maybe this is a case for letting the Z380 have access to the video > ram on the 'card... If the Z380 can't access the video RAM directly it makes things a bit more modular and device-independent. Also, you can program the graphics card to do all the complicated masking stuff that you need for windows (i.e., not drawing on any part of the window that is covered up). On the other hand, it does make sense for the graphics processor to have direct access to the Z380's memory so that the Z380 can make a ready-made bitmap for the graphics processor to blit on to the screen. (And if the screen layout changes you don't have to change the Z380 program; you just make the graphics processor interpret the bitmap while it's putting it on the screen). imc From imc Tue Nov 19 13:54:37 1996 Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:54:37 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Tim Paveley" at Nov 18, 96 06:56:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 317 Lines: 10 On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:56:30 +0000 (GMT), Tim Paveley said: > PC = Personal Computer. Isn't the Sam a Personal Computer, I wouldn't > exactly call it a mainframe or anything. Or did you just mean an IBM PC > compatible? Har har. imc (PS PC also stands for police constable, post card, politically correct, ...) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 14:54:55 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119141358.008d2ee8@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:13:58 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1367 Lines: 34 At 12:01 PM 11/19/96 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:43:53 +0000, Simon Cooke said: >> Add to that list "compact way of transferring sprite data to the graphics card". > >Weeellll... :-) > >It obviously depends on what hardware there is. Firstly, if we have >DMA (that is, the Z380 can just tell the graphics card to go fetch the >image from a particular area of memory) then no kind of compression is >needed, since it will just slow things down. But if the data is going >to be transferred over some kind of I/O link then it would probably be >wise to compress it. GIF might not be the best way. For a start, GIF >only works on an 8-bit CLUT-based display so GIF is out if we have a 16 >or 32 bit display. Also, it's probably best to set the CLUT separately, >so there will be no need for the GIF header. After that you can compress >the bit image however you like. The problem with GIF is (a) it is patented >technology, and (b) it does take a fair amount of memory to create and >decode. THe (a) is the only problem I can see... the (b) isn't that much of a problem -- 64K max is needed for the dictionary AFAICR... It's just really so that people can store their graphics as GIFs on the disk (saving disk space) and pass it up to the graphics card without worrying about it. PNG instead of GIF then? (because of (a) ) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 14:54:56 1996 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:57:45 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Touched for the very first time... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <190A194333@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 904 Lines: 28 > Oh dear, dear, dear. You aren't stupid enough to use a proportional font > for email are you? :-) Yuk yuk! I hate proportional fonts. Courier is actually my nemesis. Nope, I read all your lovely letters in Times New Roman and very lovely they look too - although most peoples sig file do look a bit strange. > The penalty you pay for that is not being able to underline things or draw > ascii art, or to read mail properly when other people do those things. ASCII art reminds me of teletext on a bad day - I'm not at all technical so I don't really need to read things like the Copyright symbol that was on the other day. However, your sig file below looks really smart! > _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ > _/ _/_/ _/_/ _/ > _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ > _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ > > Johnna Pig Teare (j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk) "Mab is the Queen and there's a good apothecary man!" From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 14:54:56 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119141447.008e5534@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:14:47 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 337 Lines: 9 At 11:49 AM 11/19/96 +0000, you wrote: >In that case, why is there a sector map in the directory >when all that's needed is a referance to the first sector >of the file? 'cos it's much quicker to work out how much space the files use and which sectors are free, and erase files that way than by going through every sector on the disc. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 14:54:56 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119141501.008e1098@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:15:01 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Butterfly Print revisited Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 595 Lines: 17 At 12:03 PM 11/19/96 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:43:52 +0000, Simon Cooke said: >> I /could/ do that, but then I'd have a problem with redrawing the screen if >> a menu was printed, or with the scrollback buffer... > >Yes I gather that. I wasn't trying to imply that it would work in Termite. > >Although ANSI terminals are supposed to have underlining... :-) True enough... Actually I *could* do it if I stuck to the strict interpretation of the standard (ie no extended characters, and use bit 7 to indicate whether or not the character's underlined...) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 15:02:05 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:34:58 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961119093457_1116891102@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: NEWS ON THE SAM CLOCK. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 726 Lines: 25 Right, FORMAT is out, so now I can tell the list about the SAM Clock/Calendar. To be launched in early January. Fully MasterDOS/HDOS compatible. Has through connection so there is not need for a Two-up. Replaceable lithium battery (approx #2 from Maplin and the like) avoids the problems with the ni-cad cells. Has DBDIR line active so will fit behind the future buffer board. R.R.P. #29.95 Indug members Price #24.95. (there is a special offer for advanced orders placed (postmarked on or before) by the 20th December of #20 - cheques not cashed until interface ready to go out. Overseas add 10% to cover extra postage. Being produced by FORMAT not by West Coast. Full TWO year warranty (excluding battery). Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 15:02:06 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119142706.008e6558@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:27:06 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Butterfly Print revisited Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 688 Lines: 22 At 01:46 PM 11/19/96 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:12:39 +0000, Dave Hooper said: >> > Well I just put a couple of "OR XH" instructions in appropriate places. >> >> OR XH? That's a new one on me. > >Ah. Well I actually meant "OR IXh", but for some unknown reason when I >implemented this in my assembler I left off the "I". Ah... I took it to mean something like: selfmod1: OR &00 where you'd modify the value it OR'd in (quickest way, namely because you're going to change print-state a lot less often than you're going to print characters). This is the same reason why the colour for the font is stored as pen XOR paper and paper in my routine. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 15:03:01 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:34:56 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961119093455_705101406@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT&CP/M - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1248 Lines: 32 In a message dated 18/11/96 14:10:45, you write: >> I thought FATs were invented for CP/M and Microsoft nicked the idea.. > >Spot on. Microsoft thieved most of CP/M to make QDOS and then MSDOS which >was >bundled out as something to run MS Basic on. > >Futher enlightenment can be found in the book 'Accidental Empires' by Robert >Cringely. It was also on the telly a while back. > >Dan. Clip from article to appear in future issue of FORMAT PC. The product that IBM licensed from Microsoft was originally written for a company called Seattle Computer Products by Tim Patterson, an ex-employee of Digital Research. The system was therefore dubbed SCP-DOS, although its nickname QDOS - short for Quick and Dirty Operating System - was perhaps a more accurate description of its capabilities. Microsoft bought the rights to SCP-DOS and began work on turning Patterson's code into a more serviceable product. The renamed MS-DOS version 1.0 was essentially a rewrite of CP/M for the Intel 16-bit 8086 family of processors. Some of the commands had been tidied up to make the product a little more user friendly, but that was about all. Everything else, down to the A> prompt for the default drive, was derived from CP/M. So now you know. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 15:03:02 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:34:00 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611191434.AA04232@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 580 Lines: 16 > >It obviously depends on what hardware there is. Firstly, if we have > >The problem with GIF is (a) it is patented > >technology, and (b) it does take a fair amount of memory to create and > >decode. > > THe (a) is the only problem I can see... the (b) isn't that much of a > problem -- 64K max is needed for the dictionary AFAICR... > > It's just really so that people can store their graphics as GIFs on the disk > (saving disk space) and pass it up to the graphics card without worrying > about it. (a) is only a problem if the algorithm is used commercially. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 15:03:11 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:34:52 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961119093450_2014401885@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1384 Lines: 40 In a message dated 18/11/96 12:13:36, you write: > >On Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:17:50 -0500, BrenchleyR@aol.com said: >> Sorry Ian, have to disagree. Way back in my mainframe days the mega big >> (60Mega-words each of 24 bits - and that was big in 1977) hard discs had >> FATs, not the same as SAM, not the same as PC, but thery were FATs. > >Were they actually called FATs, or are you just calling it that in hindsight? Yes. Also know as BATs (Bucket Allocation Tables) because ICL used the term Bucket instead of Cluster. > >> SAM's (and the PLUS D's & DISCiPLE's) Sector Allocation Map, > >Is that how the computer got its name? :-) No, SAM stood for Some Amazing Machine. > >> The fact that the file's S.A.M. (stored in the directory) is only a >> map of that file does not make it any less a FAT that the type of FAT used >by >> MS-DOS. > >Yes it does. It's a map, not a table. > >Besides, whatever you think (or know) the word FAT is supposed to mean, the >fact is that it has now been associated with PC disks for so long that it >would be silly to try and attach that word to anything else. > Oh no, no, no. Just because one group feels the word means one thing, there is no reason to allow them to hijack the word and claim it for their own. If we want to define a new meaning for the word FAT, for use in the SAM world then we go right ahead and do it. >imc bob. From imc Tue Nov 19 15:08:40 1996 Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:08:40 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9611191434.AA04232@asmal.edh-net> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Nov 19, 96 03:34:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 216 Lines: 7 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:34:00 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: > (a) is only a problem if the algorithm is used commercially. Well, unless the graphics boards are going to be given away, it sounds commercial to me. imc From imc Tue Nov 19 15:10:47 1996 Subject: Re: Butterfly Print revisited To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:10:47 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961119142706.008e6558@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 19, 96 02:27:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 332 Lines: 10 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:27:06 +0000, Simon Cooke said: > Ah... I took it to mean something like: > selfmod1: OR &00 That instruction is the same speed as OR IXh. But there are two of them so it's slower to change. On the other hand you don't have to bother making sure that IXh is a sensible value on entry to the routine. imc From imc Tue Nov 19 15:12:00 1996 Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:12:00 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961119141447.008e5534@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 19, 96 02:14:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 346 Lines: 9 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:14:47 +0000, Simon Cooke said: > 'cos it's much quicker to work out how much space the files use and which > sectors are free, and erase files that way than by going through every > sector on the disc. Yes, having a map for each file makes erase much easier - although DOS, CP/M and Unix seem to manage without. :-) imc From imc Tue Nov 19 15:15:00 1996 Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:15:00 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961119141358.008d2ee8@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> from "Simon Cooke" at Nov 19, 96 02:13:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 518 Lines: 15 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:13:58 +0000, Simon Cooke said: > It's just really so that people can store their graphics as GIFs on the disk > (saving disk space) and pass it up to the graphics card without worrying > about it. Hmm. Pictures could be stored as GIFs and viewed with a GIF viewer, no problem. Most games at the moment seem to be stored in compressed form, so compressing the graphics of a game wouldn't seem to be much of an advantage. > PNG instead of GIF then? (because of (a) ) Never heard of it. imc From imc Tue Nov 19 15:19:46 1996 Subject: Re: Touched for the very first time... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:19:46 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <190A194333@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> from "Johnna Teare" at Nov 19, 96 01:57:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 837 Lines: 21 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:57:45 GMT+0, Johnna Teare said: > > Oh dear, dear, dear. You aren't stupid enough to use a proportional font > > for email are you? :-) > Yuk yuk! I hate proportional fonts. Courier is actually my nemesis. Do you mean non-proportional fonts? The why do you use a Sam? :-) If you don't like Courier then change to Lucida Typewriter. Or any of the other wonderful monospaced fonts that are around (for historical reasons I am actually typing this in the font which I have on my modified Spectrum ROM). > Nope, I read all your lovely letters in Times New Roman and very > lovely they look too - although most peoples sig file do look a bit > strange. Someone once said "Times Roman is for newspapers. If you are not printing a newspaper then don't use Times Roman," but I can't remember who or why. imc From imc Tue Nov 19 15:28:38 1996 Subject: Re: WebSite To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:28:38 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Johnna Teare" at Nov 7, 96 08:00:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 753 Lines: 18 On Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:00:32 GMT+0, Johnna Teare said: > It's only me going on about my (bloody?!) website again. The > following is a list of names and addresses (gotten from the SAM Users > List) which I'm going to put into an address book on the site. > Please contact me if: > 1) You do not wish your name to be published > 2) There are any details which are incorrect > 3) You know that one of the people has changed address/removed > themselves from the list > 4) You are not on the list and would like to be added > 5) There are any additional details you would like to have included > by your name and address. Perhaps you should be asking for their home pages as well... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 15:36:39 1996 From: SL Harding Message-Id: <199611191450.OAA23238@harrier.fen.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SOS AGGHHhh proportional font To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:50:07 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9611191332.AA04290@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk" at Nov 19, 96 01:32:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 446 Lines: 12 > > On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:38:05 GMT+0, Johnna Teare said: > > Erm...it's got digest underlined on my machine. Must be something to > > do with the font I'm doing it in eh? > > Oh dear, dear, dear. You aren't stupid enough to use a proportional font > for email are you? :-) > DOUBLE DRAT! I surpose we are going to have to provide a proportional font for our ARM chip. Stupid Microsoft Word 6, TRC compatable PC type people will want it. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 15:37:36 1996 From: sh5655@bristol.ac.uk (SL. Harding) Message-Id: <199611191511.PAA20332@irix.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:11:15 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9611190830.AA00740@asmal.edh-net> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Nov 19, 96 09:30:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1048 Lines: 30 > > > >ooh, heck. I was under the impression (someone had said, I think) > > >that the Z80 was going to be used for text and the ultra-lowest of > > >the res screen modes. > > > > Main SAM to handle modes 1 to 4, exactly as is so we have 100% compat. > > But, for higher screen modes I think the Z380 should drive a screen on the > > graphics card with commands - not by memory access. > > Don't go in that trap - allow both. > > -Frode The world would be a much nicer place if we allow both! I still don't know how powerfull the chipset will be. If, in a game, the ARM chip can manipulate a 1Meg image by being sent a large number of large sprites byte by byte along the I/O port, then there will be no need for the Z380 to ever access the memory! Or will it even be able to do this if the sprites are stored within its own memory and a wraparound technique is used for the scrolling? If this is the cace then the ability of the Z380 to help would still be great to have. If this is not the case then Z380 access is necessary. Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 15:52:43 1996 From: sh5655@bristol.ac.uk (SL. Harding) Message-Id: <199611191527.PAA20671@irix.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SOS GUI booting of CLI programs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:27:56 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <6239E922FA@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Nov 18, 96 07:11:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1007 Lines: 29 > > > > PC owners are forced to use DOS (their CLI) to load decent games > > > > Don't they just stick the disk in and turn it on? > > How many DOS games come with their own boot sectors these days? :) > davee > And how many hard drive installed TRC games are auto booting? ;o) It would be much nicer (and not much harder to program) a GUI that can not only manage files and launch its own applications, but can launch an application That does not run from within the GUI. All we need to do is give CLI programs a distict file format so that they can be identified (such as an exectution line number, there won't be much point for these in GUI applications!), and when thay are selected, Kill the GUI, drop down to the CLI, and execute the command 'load "SAMquake"' (or whatever!) (Admit it, it is going to be a game or a demo thats run from the CLI as utilities etc. will run from within the GUI) (funny the way that SAMdoom from the other day has already turned into SAMquake!) Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 15:52:43 1996 From: sh5655@bristol.ac.uk (SL. Harding) Message-Id: <199611191527.PAA20671@irix.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SOS GUI booting of CLI programs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:27:56 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <6239E922FA@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Nov 18, 96 07:11:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1007 Lines: 29 > > > > PC owners are forced to use DOS (their CLI) to load decent games > > > > Don't they just stick the disk in and turn it on? > > How many DOS games come with their own boot sectors these days? :) > davee > And how many hard drive installed TRC games are auto booting? ;o) It would be much nicer (and not much harder to program) a GUI that can not only manage files and launch its own applications, but can launch an application That does not run from within the GUI. All we need to do is give CLI programs a distict file format so that they can be identified (such as an exectution line number, there won't be much point for these in GUI applications!), and when thay are selected, Kill the GUI, drop down to the CLI, and execute the command 'load "SAMquake"' (or whatever!) (Admit it, it is going to be a game or a demo thats run from the CLI as utilities etc. will run from within the GUI) (funny the way that SAMdoom from the other day has already turned into SAMquake!) Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:00:28 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119154926.0096bf54@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:49:26 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 458 Lines: 15 At 03:12 PM 11/19/96 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:14:47 +0000, Simon Cooke said: >> 'cos it's much quicker to work out how much space the files use and which >> sectors are free, and erase files that way than by going through every >> sector on the disc. > >Yes, having a map for each file makes erase much easier - although DOS, >CP/M and Unix seem to manage without. :-) Very true... I wasn't recommending it though :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:31:32 1996 Message-Id: <199611191558.QAA25676@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: The Romans are comming Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:00:21 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 616 Lines: 15 > Someone once said "Times Roman is for newspapers. If you are not printing a > newspaper then don't use Times Roman," but I can't remember who or why. > > imc Times Roman is the better font to read (because of its feet, damn I don't know the English word for this one, in Dutch they are known as "Schreven"). Any Roman-type is good to read as plain text, but Times Roman is proportional smaller then most other roman-types, so you get more characters on a line, and that is al what counts in the Newspaper world. Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Slave nr. 181 at the "Haagsche Courant" From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:31:58 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119160101.0096bf48@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:01:01 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Butterfly Print revisited Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 537 Lines: 17 At 03:10 PM 11/19/96 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:27:06 +0000, Simon Cooke said: >> Ah... I took it to mean something like: > >> selfmod1: OR &00 > >That instruction is the same speed as OR IXh. But there are two of them >so it's slower to change. On the other hand you don't have to bother >making sure that IXh is a sensible value on entry to the routine. *nods* and as you print more often than you change from underlined to normal (and vice versa), it's on average quicker to do it that way... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:32:47 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119160102.0096943c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:01:02 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 982 Lines: 25 At 03:15 PM 11/19/96 +0000, you wrote: >On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:13:58 +0000, Simon Cooke said: >> It's just really so that people can store their graphics as GIFs on the disk >> (saving disk space) and pass it up to the graphics card without worrying >> about it. > >Hmm. Pictures could be stored as GIFs and viewed with a GIF viewer, >no problem. Most games at the moment seem to be stored in compressed >form, so compressing the graphics of a game wouldn't seem to be much >of an advantage. It's just an option we can have with the card. Given the amount of time it takes to decode GIFs on the standard SAM, I'd much prefer to have the routine on the graphics accelerator (I wrote a GIF decoder once... it had a few problems, but generally did the job... took *ages* though). >> PNG instead of GIF then? (because of (a) ) > >Never heard of it. It's the new standard for non-lossy image compression, aimed to take over from GIF (because of the patent problems et al). Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:46:33 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961119160723.009759dc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:07:23 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: The Romans are comming Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 364 Lines: 10 At 05:00 PM 11/19/96 +0100, you wrote: >Times Roman is the better font to read (because of its feet, damn I don't >know the English word for this one, in Dutch they are known as "Schreven"). Feet's good enough for me :) For future reference though, it's "serif" (which has a definitely more European feel to it, so I'm guessing it isn't an English word). Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:46:39 1996 From: sh5655@bristol.ac.uk (SL. Harding) Message-Id: <199611191609.QAA21520@irix.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:09:05 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199611182105.VAA28621@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Nov 18, 96 09:05:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3229 Lines: 78 > > On Nov 18, 1996 12:03:50, 'Stephen Harding ' wrote: > >We must remember that at level 1 (M_Code launched from the CLI at level 2) > > >the programmer has as got to have full access to all of the hardware. This > >implies that games launced from here must be able to stick their own > >graphics sub-routines on the graphics card, this is dangerous for > >upgradeability (yet necessary). > > > Why would it be necessary, its not on PC graphic cards. > > Samsboss. there are 2 parts to the proposal. 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 1, In the GUI, have an expandable table of spaces for graphics routines in the ARMs memory, much like the table that can be found on utillity pages of SAMs RAM to allocate slots of memory for handy routines. This way GUI the applications of the future will be able to write usefull little ARM routines for use on a tempory basis (i.e. not sticking them on the flash but in RAM). Surpose, a couple of years down the line someone wants to write a brand new revolutionary 3D modeler (I like this example.) But they find that when the machine was designed, no body forsore this amazing development so did not provide a texturemapper routine that would be much help to this application. The programmer wants a completely different texture mapper that would not be comatable with the old one so cannot simply replace the old one on the flash with the super new one. Said programmer could struggle with the exsisting software, or if we provide such a table, the programmer could write his new ARM texture mapper, make it so it is loaded into the next available slot on the ARM each time his utility was loaded, and remember this slot Number so that the utility can use it untill the machine is turned off or the utility is killed, all indpendently of what other slots other programs may have used. Nice, necessary and obvious. 222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 2, Our own M_code level 1 games that run independently of the GUI, trying to get the absolute maximum performance from the machine. A game maywell want a super superfast texturemapper. Are you suggesting that we ban such programs from sticking a wodge of ARM code into the ARMs memory to do the texture mapping while the Z380 is left to calculate the points and planes required to make up the 3D environment? It seems a little silly for the Z380 to have to do all of the work and just send commands such as 'plot X,Y' to the ARM! That is why I feel it is necessary. PC cards cann't take full advantage of their hardware due to the many different incompatabilities. WE CAN! The reason why I said it as opposed to assume everyone was thinking allong thoes ideas anyway (I am certain Simon Cooke is, he inspired us all to the possibility in the first place) was because of the fear that a number years doun the road there may be such probems for us. If the next generation graphics card we develop is not ARM based or ARM compatible then all of the cool programs which make use of the chip directly like this will not work! C9 (and why not Dave? I am just practicing my Z380 is anticipation!) Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:46:43 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:01:02 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam Users List Again (Was: Re: Like a virgin?) Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2315 Lines: 70 > I know Mr Bob, but I doubt that he knows me... And > there is NO excuse for bad mouthing someone, even if > like A LOT of other people on the Internet I like to > keep my real ID under my hat. > Samsboss. Now seems as good a time as any, so here's the list :) As before, please report any glaring errors to me direct i.e. *your* name being wrong - this means you Mr Harding, I've had you down as someone else for the best part of 4 months :) Dan. ---- Sam User List Last update: Monday 18 November, 1996 10:36 am Name Email Address Ian Collier Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk Allan Skillman allan@hpopb1.cern.ch Arne Di Russo ar@RMnet.it Ben Verstaag ben@charm.il.ft.hse.nl Dave Hooper d.c.hooper@sms.ed.ac.uk David Gommeran gommerd@interpac.be janowska@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl Matt Round malevolent@netwales.co.uk Colin Anderton pmyljja@hhn1.nott.ac.uk Jeff Crawford? samcoupe@cadderly.demon.co.uk Stephen Harding sh5655@bristol.ac.uk sh5655@irix.bris.ac.uk Simon Owen si@obobo.demon.co.uk Simon Cooke simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk Tim Wells tgw1001@cam.ac.uk Jon Hampton Jon_Hampton@iconex.mactel.org Frode Tennebo ft@edh.ericsson.se Dean Liversidge dean@error.demon.co.uk Dave Whitmore davewhitmore@enterprise.net Gavin Smith smith-gc@ulst.ac.uk Colin Macdonald Gouranga@aol.com Christian Cable C.F.CABLE@UCLAN.AC.UK Tim Paveley unc@dplinux.sund.ac.uk Mark Walker ffyon@enterprise.net Luke Trevorrow blackadder@orinocco.demon.co.uk samsboss@uk.pipeline.com Stefan Drissen Stefan_Drissen@nl.coopers.com Keith Turner keith@cursci.co.uk Thomas Harte 106350.2555@compuserve.com Dan Doore DOOREDJ@parliament.uk Neil Maynard mne2@cableol.co.uk Robert van der Veeke rjvveeke@caiw.nl David Zambonini D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk Paul Walker P.R.Walker@csv.warwick.ac.uk Dave Handley d.handley@lancaster.ac.uk Justin Skists c93js1@dmu.ac.uk Slawomir Grodkowski slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de Andrew Collier asc25@cam.ac.uk Johnna Teare j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk Lee Willis l.willis@comp.brad.ac.uk J.K Ogden se94jko@ex.ac.uk David Mundon davidm@enterprise.net M. G. Smith mchu4mgs@fs2.ee.umist.ac.uk Bob Brenchley BrenchleyR@aol.com Andrew Gale ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk James Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk Ian Dalziel IDalziel@idalziel.demon.co.uk David Ledbury persona@clara.net Stuart Skardon sskardon@digibank.demon.co.uk From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:51:40 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:41:54 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961119114153_1318151952@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: A 'TO-DO' LIST Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3692 Lines: 89 Can I see if we have reached a point where there is a general consensus on the development required over the next six months? What I will do is list each item in turn. If anyone wants to comment then just mention the item number in your mail heading (ie: Comment Re Item 2a) that way we can keep things in order. If you also limit comments to one item per mail then I can just print out each sheet and sort them into order. Right, here goes:- 1. HARDWARE. a) Design external battery backed SRAM board. Initial 128K memory. Paged to replace either the Low ROM and/or the High ROM. Ports set-up to select which page is in which slot and if write protected or not. Write protection will also have hard switch which will prevent unauthorized changes to SRAM. Board to be designed to allow more SRAM to be added at a later date if required. Target: As soon as possible. This board is needed to allow the redevelopment of the existing ROM, DOS and HDOS. It may also have other things added at a later date. b) Design of full buffer board. To buffer all address, data and main signal lines from the existing SAM expansion connector. Please note: all interfaces MUST use the DBDIR line if they want to pass info back to SAM. Target: Jan '97. This design is already underway by Nev Young. c) Design of Z380 processor board. I would like to keep this board as simple as possible (so it can be replaced if another chip comes along one day) so I feel it would be better to use a separate memory card (see below). Battery backed SRAM needed and we need to think about how the Z380 will communicate with the main SAM board and with any memory and graphics cards. I have a few more details to put in but that can wait for another mailing. Target: Feb '97. d) Graphics card. (possibly with sound as well). A processor in its own right (if we go for the ARM option) this should have its own RAM/SRAM and should communicate with other devices rather than allow direct access to its own RAM. There should be as high a resolution screen as possible onto which the hardware/software will interpret the SAMSON screen modes. This again allows the card to be updated in the future to even higher resolution without the need to change software. Target: April/May '97. e) Memory card. The big question is how much memory do we give and how is it allocated? MMU? Flat? Exclusive access? Shared access? Lots to think about here, but it needs to be ready in time for the Z380 card. f) Other things needed include a PC keyboard interface and an interface to replace the 1772 disc control chip. 2. SOFTWARE. a) Specification of new Basic, DOS and HDOS syntax. This is important to allow the system to be written in a modular way by a number of programmers. By paying close attention to the syntax a lot of space can be saved while keeping code as fast as possible. Target: Jan '97. b) Specification of the low-level graphics 'kernel' language to allow fast control of the graphics card. This will allow a start to be made both on writing the routines on the graphics card to actually do the job, and of course the programs that will want to drive the card. Target: Feb '97. c) Specification of BIOS routines for the Z380 system. Should there be any? Well yes, at least the simple communication routines that allow you to get things in and out of the Z380 system. Target: Feb '97. d) Specification of the additional system software including a GUI and items like file converters (PC screens to SAMSON and the like). Target: As needed. No doubt I've missed something, if I have then label the mailing Re item 3 - you missed this. Boy, what have I let myself in for. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:52:12 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:41:57 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961119114155_1419941969@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Proportional type. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 623 Lines: 16 In a message dated 19/11/96 13:34:48, you write: >Oh dear, dear, dear. You aren't stupid enough to use a proportional font >for email are you? :-) But most modern computers DO use proportional spaced screen fonts, that is the one really good thing about windows applications. If you have ATM (uses much less space and is far faster than True Type) then it is daft to use a fixed pitch font. In fact on AOL I must admit I have not found out how ot use a different font for the email/news viewer/writer. Proportional fonts are much easier to read. In fact I do hope we can get modern typefaces on SAMSON one day. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:52:18 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:41:59 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961119114158_1682654096@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: ARMs and Feet Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 227 Lines: 10 In a message dated 19/11/96 12:10:24, you write: >I thought the idea was to use a "standard" case in order to save money. > >Samsboss It is, there is no money available for the expensive job of designing a new case. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:52:43 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:42:00 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961119114159_1849587344@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAMSon specification Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 211 Lines: 9 In a message dated 19/11/96 12:08:37, you write: >Have you come up with the [sort of] finalised spec >for the SAMSon modules yet? >-Andy Long ways from a final one, but I hope todays mailing will help. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 16:52:43 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:42:01 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961119114200_1916695952@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Like a virgin???????????????????? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 656 Lines: 29 In a message dated 18/11/96 21:10:21, you write: >On Nov 18, 1996 19:37:09, 'davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore)' >wrote: > > >>Do you know who /it/ is Bob? Don't think so, several people I have thought of have already been eliminated (I think). But he will slip up one day. >> >>Bye, >> >>_ >>|_)ave >-- > >I know Mr Bob, but I doubt that he knows me... >And there is NO excuse for bad mouthing someone, even if like A LOT of >other people on the Internet I like to keep my real ID under my hat. > >Samsboss. On that I do have to agree with him. Lets face it, sad though it is, using a funny name is part of the internet. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 17:05:49 1996 From: sh5655@bristol.ac.uk (SL. Harding) Message-Id: <199611191646.QAA22371@irix.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SOS mose independent To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:46:19 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199611182105.VAA28621@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Nov 18, 96 09:05:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2681 Lines: 82 Could someone please change the title to 'SOS mode independent' when responding! ~ > > There is no real need to provide much in the way of scaling sprite > > procedures on the cards flash as sprites are only realy going to be used > > from level 1 where there is no need to worry about the scalling and > > re-positioning a decent GUI requires. At level 1 the writer of the game > > will want to write his own dedicated routine anyway. > What about all this "Let it be independent of which graphics mode we are > in so people can use it on their TVs" lark all of a sudden? > > imc There are 2 aspects to this too. 1, People with TVs will be able to see (a representation of) any mode if we use a quality modulator. this means that games prgrammers need not worry too much about the loss of market if they write an SVGA game such as 'SAMsyndicate' (Am I getting silly now?) So level one programs will not need to bother about providing different graphics routines for the different modes. 2, Different people will want to run their GUI desktops in different resolutions. This implies that writers of GUI applications would need to worry about running in different resoltions to the one(s) they where designed for. But, fortunatly, if we choose to provide versute screen and mouse drivers the applications don't need to have any idea of the size, position or resolution of their windows. As I like 2's here are 2 questions. 1, What do we want to happen when we increase the size of windows? we have the same choice in each case, how can we make the user choose? graphics windows i,increase the ammount of the image shown i.e. greater resolution; ii,or increase the scale of the image. file management windows i,increase the number of files that can be shown; ii,or increase the size of the icons. text windows i,increase the amount of the document that can be seen; ii,or make the text bigger -remember those with poor eyesight! Time for an interlude I think... I must admit that before I brought my SAM I eagerly skim read a friends SAM manual in about 5 minuits, Wow I thought! I pictured how easy it would be to write a car racing game in SAM basic... palette line interupts so you get the impression of the road comming towards you! Blitz command to draw the edge of the road super fast! And re-sizeable character set so you have 2 colour road signs zooming towards you in perspective! On reading the manual fully I understood how it was not quite that simple! -I guess you could call me a dreamer! Back to the plot... 2, How about calling the GUI 'Versute'? (yup, I am being silly). ...Or maybe not!? Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 17:05:50 1996 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199611191757.RAA01037@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Sam Users List Again To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:57:22 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 585 Lines: 19 > As before, please report any glaring errors to me direct i.e. > *your* name being wrong - this means you Mr Harding, I've had > you down as someone else for the best part of 4 months :) Who, what, me? > Stephen Harding sh5655@bristol.ac.uk sh5655@irix.bris.ac.uk sh5655@bristol.ac.uk is not very stable and has been missing messages! I hope no-one minds if I do my posting from: sh5655@irix.bris.ac.uk and/or numbly@bits.bris.ac.uk and my reading from: sh5655@bristol.ac.uk and sh5655@irix.bris.ac.uk and sign myself off as 'Numbly Belt Shaver' just to be difficult! Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 17:34:24 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:15:04 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam Users List Again (Was: Re: Like a virgin?) Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2315 Lines: 74 > I know Mr Bob, but I doubt that he knows me... And > there is NO excuse for bad mouthing someone, even if > like A LOT of other people on the Internet I like to > keep my real ID under my hat. > Samsboss. Now seems as good a time as any, so here's the list :) As before, please report any glaring errors to me direct i.e. *your* name being wrong - this means you Mr Harding, I've had you down as someone else for the best part of 4 months :) Dan. ---- Sam User List Last update: Monday 18 November, 1996 10:36 am Name Email Address Ian Collier Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk Allan Skillman allan@hpopb1.cern.ch Arne Di Russo ar@RMnet.it Ben Verstaag ben@charm.il.ft.hse.nl Dave Hooper d.c.hooper@sms.ed.ac.uk David Gommeran gommerd@interpac.be janowska@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl Matt Round malevolent@netwales.co.uk Colin Anderton pmyljja@hhn1.nott.ac.uk Jeff Crawford? samcoupe@cadderly.demon.co.uk Stephen Harding sh5655@bristol.ac.uk sh5655@irix.bris.ac.uk Simon Owen si@obobo.demon.co.uk Simon Cooke simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk Tim Wells tgw1001@cam.ac.uk Jon Hampton Jon_Hampton@iconex.mactel.org Frode Tennebo ft@edh.ericsson.se Dean Liversidge dean@error.demon.co.uk Dave Whitmore davewhitmore@enterprise.net Gavin Smith smith-gc@ulst.ac.uk Colin Macdonald Gouranga@aol.com Christian Cable C.F.CABLE@UCLAN.AC.UK Tim Paveley unc@dplinux.sund.ac.uk Mark Walker ffyon@enterprise.net Luke Trevorrow blackadder@orinocco.demon.co.uk samsboss@uk.pipeline.com Stefan Drissen Stefan_Drissen@nl.coopers.com Keith Turner keith@cursci.co.uk Thomas Harte 106350.2555@compuserve.com Dan Doore DOOREDJ@parliament.uk Neil Maynard mne2@cableol.co.uk Robert van der Veeke rjvveeke@caiw.nl David Zambonini D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk Paul Walker P.R.Walker@csv.warwick.ac.uk Dave Handley d.handley@lancaster.ac.uk Justin Skists c93js1@dmu.ac.uk Slawomir Grodkowski slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de Andrew Collier asc25@cam.ac.uk Johnna Teare j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk Lee Willis l.willis@comp.brad.ac.uk J.K Ogden se94jko@ex.ac.uk David Mundon davidm@enterprise.net M. G. Smith mchu4mgs@fs2.ee.umist.ac.uk Bob Brenchley BrenchleyR@aol.com Andrew Gale ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk James Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk Ian Dalziel IDalziel@idalziel.demon.co.uk David Ledbury persona@clara.net Stuart Skardon sskardon@digibank.demon.co.uk From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 17:45:26 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:35:24 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Sam Users List Again (Was: Re: Like a vir - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 171 Lines: 8 Aha! I appear to have sent this twice, sorry. It was open in my outbox and I presumed I hadn't sent it, I must have clicked resend earlier and forgotten about it. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 18:06:41 1996 Message-Id: <199611191802.TAA08469@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: The Romans are comming Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:04:42 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 541 Lines: 20 > Van: Simon Cooke > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: The Romans are comming > Datum: Tuesday, November 19, 1996 5:07 PM > > Feet's good enough for me :) For future reference though, it's "serif" > (which has a definitely more European feel to it, so I'm guessing it isn't > an English word). > > Simon > Yep that's the word "Serif". Thanks Simon. Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] "Schreef" is Dutch for "Serif", and the "Yakuza" is Japanese for "Good for nothing" (=true). From imc Tue Nov 19 18:07:59 1996 Subject: Re: Proportional type. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:07:59 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <961119114155_1419941969@emout12.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Nov 19, 96 11:41:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 393 Lines: 12 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:41:57 -0500, BrenchleyR@aol.com said: > But most modern computers DO use proportional spaced screen fonts, that is > the one really good thing about windows applications. So what about ASCII graphics then? What abour curses applications? What about commands that print things out in a tabulated manner? > Proportional fonts are much easier to read. Says who? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 20:05:14 1996 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:02:25 -0500 From: Neville Young <106166.1560@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Z80 interuppts To: sam users Message-Id: <199611191502_MC1-C2C-9800@compuserve.com> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 916 Lines: 22 >Suppose my z80 is running quite happily and then >it gets an INT interrupt - then my isr services the >interrupt. Then, whilst still servicing the interrupt >I get an NMI - does the NMI get serviced straight >away, or does it have to wait until the INT is >finished with? (I know that if an NMI occurs during >the servicing of an NMI then it has to wait, but >what about this case?) I think what you may have latched onto here (sorry no pun intended) is that on many Z80 systems the NMI is latched externally to the Z80 itself. So the first hi->lo transition will set latch NMI to the Z80 which will service it at the end of the current instruction. The external latch is reset by decoding the RETN or by a command from the Z80. In this way you can not have a second NMI while servicing the first. Sadly as we now all know the Sam doesn't have any such logic so you can /and do/ have NMIs within NMIs. Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 20:36:48 1996 Message-Id: <199611192032.UAA02928@hermes.clara.net> From: David Ledbury To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: David speaks out ... Organisation: Persona X-Mailer: Atlantis v4.5 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 20:29:11 GMT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 9388 Lines: 198 Hello everyone, Finally got this bloody account sorted, although I'm only going to be able to pick up mail every 2-3 days. Following the recent mailings regarding yours truely, I thought I'd better put my own comments in regarding my various projects on SAM. But, in light of Brian Gaffs gripes on waffle - I'll keep it short & sweet ... well as much as possible. ;) To correct Bob, I did not run 3 or more different companies - in fact, all my projects have been fairly continuous evolving from one to the next. ZAT was started by me in '89 - and although later projects (such as the Newsdisk) caused me to leave it eventually - it continued via Darren Blackburn until around mid 1995. SAM Quartet was started mid '91, when I realised I had many things that wouldn't fit on ZAT (as that was a paper zine). So I published issue 1 of SQ via ZAT. Hence original copies of SQ saying (c) ZAT-Soft. However, after kicking around ideas with Alan Miles to make a more international appealing diskzine for my second issue, Alan invited me to become Editor of the Newsdisk - which was a combination of mine & Alan's ideas. Obviously, SQ could not continue at the same time (although I did fit in a double issue to use up excess material - sometime between issue 2 & 3 of the Newsdisk if I recall!). Alan basically wanted a magazine which, unlike Format & FRED, could be read by SAM users of all abilities. I feel we managed to create this between us. And no, unlike an accusation which has been thrown at me by a person who shall rename nameless: I DID NOT ABUSE MY POSITION AT SAMCO BY USING PRIVELEDGE INFORMATION REGARDING SOFTWARE AUTHORS AND CONTRACTS!!! Sorry for shouting! After SAMCo's demise, I legally obtained the rights to Craft & SnakeMania. (I also went after Plasmoid, but Colin McD got there first!) I had the chance of another program, but due to its' inferior nature, I left it for another publisher to get. So, I decided to release these games via ZAT-Software. For a better name, and to show my aims to keep SAM going - at least until West Coast finally got going, ZAT-Soft was renamed Phoenix Software (the Systems bit was added later, when I had a chance to release some hardware ESI had developed - another story!). PSS was also named after Phoenix Way Industrial Estate. PRIME was launched around the same time, with assistance from Andy Wright, Adrian Parker, Nigel Kettlewell and others, in order to take over where the Newsdisk left off. It was in a similar vein, but better ... or at least that's what I felt. Incidently, after reading about the ASIC in YS (I was also at the infamous meeting between Simon & Bruce about the new ASIC actually! But thats another story!) I contacted Bruce regarding my putting all profits from PRIME into the development. Sadly he'd moved before the letter arrived. To cut a long story short, PRIME kept going until issue 7 - despite long delays sometimes, and I also managed to obtain the rights to loads of titles - plus a few new ones. (This included the legal rights to Manic Miner (only fair, as I designed around 1/4 of the new levels and loads of behind the scenes stuff! I'm the one to blame for the 'Twilight Zone' screens!), the SAMCo Educational titles, Sound Machine, Batz N Balls, Enigma title distribution, etc.) But due to various personal problems, everything slowed down during the start of '95. During the end of '95, Bob passed on a letter asking to talk to me via a take-over offer. I have not refused or accepted this offer, but as Persona has now taken over the Phoenix range - he's more than welcome to give me a nice large price for the PSS catalogue & name - but there's nowt left! (Hence it being pointless my replying!) I.e Persona owns all Phoenix titles. As Malcolm Mackenzie had started to help me with the distribution of Phoenix titles, I already knew him as a trustworthy person, who could be relied on to take over the Phoenix catalogue. So, I took him up on his offer to do so. I currently assist Malcolm in several capacities: namely as a programmer & as a sort-of techy advisor. Although I don't earn anything from the Phoenix catalogue, I will be earning from my own software (good job Persona pays the best percentages of any SAM Publisher, eh?!). I have had a few people who have had problems with Phoenix orders, but to my knowledge all of these have now been sorted. Bob & Colin McD had told me of a couple of letters they had regarding later orders, but unfortuanately neglected to pass me any details - so I can only assume these were amongst people I had sorted out. When Persona launched Blitz, I wrote personally to the people who were owed subscribed issues of PRIME - and these have all been sorted out (bar a couple who have not replied). The costs for these are coming out of my own pocket. The reason I was at the Persona stand at Wetherby? Simple! 1) I am employed by Persona in a programming and advisory capacity 2) I was maning a Quazar "attract-mode" sample jukebox demo, I had cobbled together a couple of days earlier. 3) I was keeping an eye on my stereo and computer, in case some thieving git nicked it! 4) Due to a bad nervous condition, I am unable to cope with crowds for exposed periods of time, without sitting. I've never really set out to make money from the SAM, only to try and do some good on the whole, and to try and push people into action. I like to feel I've done somethings right, even if not everything has gone to plan. As Simon & Dave have said, I normally think of myself as an idea person: a catalyst for creativity - the SAM has no shortage of talent - just people who can shape it in the right directions. Currently, I have less time than previously - although am still active on SAM. I am currently working full time, but assist in writing for Blitz - I also publish Z2 (ZAT2) - although due to hassle with the Editor, this mag may be dropped soon. Yes, Gavin & Alan have expressed (in passing) a curiosity as to where the magazine is, but I'm posting/mailing the readers regarding Z2 over the next week. If, and when, that zine continues is down purely to finding a replacement Editor. I am also currently working on some Quazar sample demos, a strategy game, and possibly a nice scrolly arcade game (Cannon Fodder meets Xennon)!! All this, and I'm still holding down a steady boyfriend, a steady job, working on the Editorial team of a charity's magazine (only 12,000 readers!), acting Secretary on a Disabled group, and so on.... Anyway, nice reading a couple of nice comments about me - and it's also nice to see I'm not the only one who could be accused of being a Bitchy Queen! On a lighter note, I'm chuffed to see the support for some hardware I've been waiting for for SAM for some time. However, some time ago when I was trying to push for some projects of this nature myself - with the support of several noted SAM programmers, I was offered a "Mode 5" board by Adrian Parker. Now despite the failure of K-Scope, Adrian *does* know his stuff with hardware (do you know he was offered a job by a top console company a while ago? One reason he left BAE I believe.). He offered to build & design a board for only `500 +. The board in question would possibly just handle a large number of sprites running under their own logic, independant from the video mode, with various other bells and whistles. (Can't remember everything we discussed, it was a couple of years ago!). My point is, why not approach him? Okay, so he's had disagreements. So what? If he'd design anything for the right price still, we need people like him! There are several people who, despite not being of good relationships with certain people, should be cultivated - ie Colin Jordan. He has done some interesting work with SAM as a control device on-stage, when performing with his band - or so I'm led to believe. And what is Bruce doing? Would he design anything if the price was right? What about Shane Smith? Wayne Weedon? Both of these two have, apparently, had some look with replacing their Z80b's with faster varients. Have they any lessons we can learn from? Anyway, back to the SAMSON. (Not Son Of SAM - that was the name of some loony killer!) Credit where credit's due, some of the ideas being kicked around, have already been discussed by Martin Rookyard & Simon Cooke for ages (okay, and I also contributed too with some thoughts too!), so don't forget to credit them when the things built! But I really agree with Bob in saying that any upgrade should maintain some compatability with the original SAM. Bob, Simon & myself had an interesting natter with a certain gent at Wetherby. Have you spoken further to him Bob regarding the SAM2 (S2) ideas? May be worth it perhaps? David Ledbury PS: I'm in for a seperate news group for S2 if possible! It'd make life easier for collecting the mail! ================================================================ E-mail:Persona@clara.net Tele:0161-797 0651 Fax:0162 526 3391 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Mail collected by David Ledbury on behalf of PERSONA M & D. Views expressed by David may not be those of Persona, and should not be considered such. Any text is freely copyable, as no copyright should exist on the net! Lookout for the website soon! ================================================================ From persona@clara.net Tue Nov 19 21:58:21 1996 Message-Id: <199611192157.VAA04345@hermes.clara.net> From: David Ledbury To: Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Re: SOS my right ARM. Reply-To: David Ledbury Organisation: Persona X-Mailer: Atlantis v4.5 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 21:54:31 GMT Status: RO Content-Length: 633 Lines: 17 On 1996/11/19 20:33:29 you wrote: >Indeed. Sprites are going to be somewhat mode-dependent anyway. OK - if >you design a sprite for the 256x192 mode then the graphics processor can >easily use it in a 512x384 mode by doubling it up, but in most cases it >will probably not look too good if you design a sprite for one resolution >and use it in another. So you will probably give the sprite to the graphics >board in a prepackaged format (such as a list of pixels) which is somewhat >dependent on the mode. > >imc > Now there's a nice possible idea! Automatic scaling of sprites! Been done before, but is rather handy. David L From persona@clara.net Tue Nov 19 21:58:47 1996 Message-Id: <199611192158.VAA04410@hermes.clara.net> From: David Ledbury To: Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Re: Proportional type. Reply-To: David Ledbury Organisation: Persona X-Mailer: Atlantis v4.5 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 21:55:13 GMT Status: RO Content-Length: 912 Lines: 27 On 1996/11/19 20:37:34 you wrote: >So what about ASCII graphics then? What abour curses applications? What >about commands that print things out in a tabulated manner? > >> Proportional fonts are much easier to read. > >Says who? > >imc > On paper they are certainly easier, but as a selectable option on screen, they could be useful. Maybe as a later update to the Flash ROM? David L ================================================================ E-mail:Persona@clara.net Tele:0161-797 0651 Fax:0162 526 3391 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Mail collected by David Ledbury on behalf of PERSONA M & D. Views expressed by David may not be those of Persona, and should not be considered such. Any text is freely copyable, as no copyright should exist on the net! Lookout for the website soon! ================================================================ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 22:22:30 1996 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:48:46 GMT Subject: Re: David speaks out ... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <10D39071E52@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 474 Lines: 9 Just a quick note to welcome you to the list David, and I hope to hear lots from you. I'm sure you can understand why some people are a little annoyed at you, at things you have done in the past, feeling that they (rightly or wrongly) were messed about. Anyway, its all in the past and I hope people can forgive and forget, especially as you seem to have made an effort to put things right. Here's hoping you can contribute lots to the SAMson project... Gavin Smith From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 22:22:37 1996 Message-Id: <199611192157.VAA04328@hermes.clara.net> From: David Ledbury To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Cc: BrenchleyR@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: SOS my right ARM. Organisation: Persona X-Mailer: Atlantis v4.5 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 21:54:24 GMT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 693 Lines: 22 On 1996/11/19 20:33:22 you wrote: >>ooh, heck. I was under the impression (someone had said, I think) >>that the Z80 was going to be used for text and the ultra-lowest of >>the res screen modes. > >Main SAM to handle modes 1 to 4, exactly as is so we have 100% compat. >But, for higher screen modes I think the Z380 should drive a screen on the >graphics card with commands - not by memory access. > >Bob.. > Sounds good to me! But what would the situation be regarding the "stock components" in short supply? ie 1772 & Sound chip? Could they be simulated, and even improved on? (Ie sound board emulating standard commands, but having extended functions?) Just some thoughts. David L From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 22:22:37 1996 Message-Id: <199611192209.WAA04570@hermes.clara.net> From: David Ledbury To: sh5655@bristol.ac.uk Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Re: SOS GUI booting of CLI programs Organisation: Persona X-Mailer: Atlantis v4.5 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 22:06:15 GMT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 750 Lines: 23 On 1996/11/19 20:37:5 you wrote: >(funny the way that SAMdoom from the other day has already turned into >SAMquake!) > >Numb. > > I'd preffer a SAM Duke Nukem 3d! Imagine the example for networking.... (In my dreams!) David L ================================================================ E-mail:Persona@clara.net Tele:0161-797 0651 Fax:0162 526 3391 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Mail collected by David Ledbury on behalf of PERSONA M & D. Views expressed by David may not be those of Persona, and should not be considered such. Any text is freely copyable, as no copyright should exist on the net! Lookout for the website soon! ================================================================ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Tue Nov 19 22:33:42 1996 Message-Id: <199611192232.WAA04909@hermes.clara.net> From: David Ledbury To: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Re: Like a virgin? Organisation: Persona X-Mailer: Atlantis v4.5 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 22:28:43 GMT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2378 Lines: 59 On 1996/11/19 20:32:21 you wrote: >> Anyone fancy a summary of SAMSON ideas for a virgin to the newsgroup? >Well, it a succcessor to SAM - but perhaps the first thing to mention >is that it's oly supposed to be discussed within this newsgroup - if >it gets bandied about too much then existing SAM sales may die.... Although I'm sceptical about the last line, I see your point - at least at this stage of the game. >The [mostly] preferred option at the moment is to make it a group >of i/o boards for the SAM - and here is a list of what seems most popular >Large SRAM bank to replace ROM for GUI >New sound chip Prefferbly based on Quazar technology! The basics have been done, and it's another expert to recruit to the fold. >New processor board - probably using a z380 MiDGET 2, Cookie? >Graphics accelerator Ditto? >New SAMBus with buffers on data lines >Clock/calendar card >The SAMson would then, probably, be all the above in a nice >PC type case, along with the SAM circuitry (although it would >not have the SAA1099 and would probably also have a new >disc controller - and a new PSU) Sensible, on pricing alone. It'd have to be on a PC type board/s on the final version. PC board support anyone? >I think that's most of it. We've had lots of discussions over >how it should be marketed (internet machine? boffin manchine? >PCW type machine?) and how much it should cost (299 seems popular) >and what sort of processor, GUI structure, case colour, monitor >only, etc.... PCW meets "one-box" Internet machine. Everyone else will get on the act soon enough! >Anyway, hopefully things are going to get going soon... > >-Andy > Cheers Andy, I've coppied most of your comments back for any other new-comers that may have missed it! I'll stick my penny-worth in on the ideas pot from time to time. Just one thought? Who'd sell it? David L ================================================================ E-mail:Persona@clara.net Tele:0161-797 0651 Fax:0162 526 3391 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Mail collected by David Ledbury on behalf of PERSONA M & D. Views expressed by David may not be those of Persona, and should not be considered such. Any text is freely copyable, as no copyright should exist on the net! Lookout for the website soon! ================================================================ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 09:04:41 1996 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:02:12 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611200902.AA01970@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 340 Lines: 11 > > On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:34:00 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: > > (a) is only a problem if the algorithm is used commercially. > > Well, unless the graphics boards are going to be given away, it sounds > commercial to me. Are we talking hardware compression/decompression here? If not, the software for GIFs can easily be free? -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 09:07:15 1996 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:05:02 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611200905.AA02107@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS GUI booting of CLI programs X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 562 Lines: 12 > It would be much nicer (and not much harder to program) a GUI that can not > only manage files and launch its own applications, but can launch an > application That does not run from within the GUI. All we need to do is > give CLI programs a distict file format so that they can be identified > (such as an exectution line number, there won't be much point for > these in GUI applications!), and when thay are selected, Kill the GUI, drop > down to the CLI, and execute the command 'load "SAMquake"' (or > whatever!) Please! No file-numbers. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 10:22:53 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:10:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Like a virgin???????????????????? In-Reply-To: <199611182108.VAA28850@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 420 Lines: 16 On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: ;> ;>I know Mr Bob, but I doubt that he knows me... ;>And there is NO excuse for bad mouthing someone, even if like A LOT of You started it by bad-mouthing, or being downright bitchy towards Dave Ledbury ... Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 10:32:16 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:24:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: PNG (Also known as Ping ....) In-Reply-To: <9611191515.AA01659@booth1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 353 Lines: 18 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: ;>> PNG instead of GIF then? (because of (a) ) ;> ;>Never heard of it. ;> ;>imc ;> Check out http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/TR/REC-png-multi.html Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 10:42:15 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:39:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: 2a. In-Reply-To: <961119114153_1318151952@emout11.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 616 Lines: 19 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: ;>2. SOFTWARE. ;> ;> a) Specification of new Basic, DOS and HDOS syntax. This is important to ;>allow the system to be written in a modular way by a number of programmers. ;>By paying close attention to the syntax a lot of space can be saved while ;>keeping code as fast as possible. And for god's sake please lets loose the "'s. I vote for a unix style DOS, but thousands will probably disagree with me now ... Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 10:47:51 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:42:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Alice, who the .... is alice? (Sort of) In-Reply-To: <961119114200_1916695952@emout03.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1045 Lines: 34 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: ;>> ;>>>Do you know who /it/ is Bob? ;> ;>Don't think so, several people I have thought of have already been eliminated ;>(I think). But he will slip up one day. ;> ;>> ;>>I know Mr Bob, but I doubt that he knows me... ;>>And there is NO excuse for bad mouthing someone, even if like A LOT of ;>>other people on the Internet I like to keep my real ID under my hat. So you can bitch about people like a coward ? ;>>Samsboss. Do I detect a slight ego trip with the choice of name here .... ;>On that I do have to agree with him. Lets face it, sad though it is, using a ;>funny name is part of the internet. Agreed, but how many people on this list won't reveal their real name. Just the one I think, sure there's one other unknown, but that's just an unknown, not a point blank refusal to take responsibility for his/her actions/words. Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 13:53:31 1996 From: Johnna Teare aka Mad The Swine Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:21:04 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Touched for the very first time... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <305DE01CBB@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 503 Lines: 12 > Do you mean non-proportional fonts? The why do you use a Sam? :-) > I really should slow down when I start typing! As for the SAM, well, there's no bloody choice is there? I can't think of one program that has proportional fonts on screen (apart from SCADs, I suppose). Mode 3 doesn't look too bad because the 'I's don't look as silly as they do in Mode 4 (mainly because you can hardly see them!) Johnna Pig Teare (j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk) "Mab is the Queen and there's a good apothecary man!" From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 13:53:40 1996 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:09:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Tim Paveley To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Samson Graphic extras - Memotech MTX512 In-Reply-To: <9611181750.AA01147@booth9.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 675 Lines: 17 On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > Well I guess you could flip the display into a mode where it had a virtual > screen of 2x2 physical screens and wrapped around at the edges. Did the old Memotech MTX computers have something like this. A very big virtual screen, and then you just defined a window onto it... Can't remember it completely, but thought it was probably more than 2x2, seemed quite a nice feature. Nice useless bit of trivia there.... Tim ....@/ .........................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - http://dplinux.sund.ac.uk/~unc/ Owner of a Sam Coupe - http://www.mono.org/~unc/Coupe/ From imc Wed Nov 20 13:58:31 1996 Subject: Re: Touched for the very first time... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:58:31 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <305DE01CBB@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> from "Johnna Teare aka Mad The Swine" at Nov 20, 96 01:21:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 502 Lines: 11 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:21:04 GMT+0, Johnna Teare aka Mad The Swine said: > I really should slow down when I start typing! As for the SAM, well, > there's no bloody choice is there? I can't think of one program that > has proportional fonts on screen (apart from SCADs, I suppose). Precisely - so why do you bother using the Sam then? Proportional fonts are for literature. Monospaced fonts are for text windows. Monospace fonts have a long and eminent history, starting with the typewriter. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 14:41:00 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:33:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WebSite In-Reply-To: <9611191528.AA01762@booth1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 462 Lines: 19 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: ;>Perhaps you should be asking for their home pages as well... Maybe, but authors often don't give the right address ... ;>imc should be ian.collier, not ian/collier naughty boy ian ... Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From imc Wed Nov 20 14:43:13 1996 Subject: Re: WebSite To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:43:13 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Lee Willis" at Nov 20, 96 02:33:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 217 Lines: 7 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:33:48 +0000 (GMT), Lee Willis said: > should be ian.collier, not ian/collier So that just proves that I can't type (or that I can type but a transmission error changed the . into a /)... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 15:09:03 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:01:19 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 196 Lines: 10 > ;>So that just proves that I can't type (or that I can type but a transmission > ;>error changed the . into a /)... > ;> > > We believe you, thousands wouldn't .... Well, 45 actually :)) D. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 15:11:15 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:48:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WebSite In-Reply-To: <9611201443.AA03043@booth9.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 477 Lines: 18 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: ;>On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:33:48 +0000 (GMT), Lee Willis said: ;>> should be ian.collier, not ian/collier ;> ;>So that just proves that I can't type (or that I can type but a transmission ;>error changed the . into a /)... ;> We believe you, thousands wouldn't .... Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 15:50:08 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:39:48 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 514 Lines: 24 From: A.S. Collier > Well, 45 actually :)) > > Why the double chin? Because I'm a bloater ;) > Have we got nothing serious to talk about today? Apparantly not, it's been pretty silent today (i.e. my PC isn't screaming mail notifications ever 30 seconds) Before I forget, welcome to the list Dave and welcome back Stuart. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 15:55:01 1996 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:33:25 +0000 (GMT) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@indigo.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 145 Lines: 11 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Dan Doore wrote: > Well, 45 actually :)) Why the double chin? Have we got nothing serious to talk about today? Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 16:00:31 1996 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:46:43 +0000 (GMT) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@indigo.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Touched for the very first time... In-Reply-To: <9611201358.AA07096@boothp2.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 331 Lines: 11 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > Proportional fonts are for literature. Monospaced fonts are for text windows. > Monospace fonts have a long and eminent history, starting with the typewriter. And of course, early typewriters were always used to make text windows, and never for writing books. Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 16:07:58 1996 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:48:12 +0000 (GMT) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@indigo.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply - Reply In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 493 Lines: 20 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Dan Doore wrote: > From: A.S. Collier To: PDVN.GWSMTP("sam-users@nvg.unit.no","asc25@hermes. > Date: Wednesday 20 November, 1996 3:33 pm > Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply Wha? > Apparantly not, it's been pretty silent today (i.e. my PC > isn't screaming mail notifications ever 30 seconds) We can soon change that, if you really want. > Before I forget, welcome to the list Dave and welcome back Stuart. Hello. Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 16:24:39 1996 Message-Id: <199611201619.RAA02039@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: Touched for the very first time... Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:20:41 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 505 Lines: 18 ---------- > Van: A.S. Collier > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: Touched for the very first time... > Datum: Wednesday, November 20, 1996 4:46 PM > > On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > And of course, early typewriters were always used to make text windows, > and never for writing books. > > Andrew > Guess where "Uppercase" and "Lowercase" came from? Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Eh... eh.... erm nothing here! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 16:47:21 1996 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:36:44 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Touched for the very first time... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <33A33F43B3@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 747 Lines: 24 > > On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > > > And of course, early typewriters were always used to make text windows, > > and never for writing books. > > > > Andrew > > > Guess where "Uppercase" and "Lowercase" came from? Upper case and Lower case were the terms used in teh typesetting rooms of printers. The capital letters were kept in a row of boxes along the top of a shelf, and teh smaller letters were kept in boxes along teh bottom. Therefore, upper and lower case. But really, this isn't very SAM related is it? > Robert van der Veeke AKA RJV Graphics > [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] > Eh... eh.... erm nothing here! > Johnna Pig Teare (j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk) "Mab is the Queen and there's a good apothecary man!" From imc Wed Nov 20 17:35:43 1996 Subject: Re: PNG (Also known as Ping ....) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:35:43 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Lee Willis" at Nov 20, 96 10:24:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 224 Lines: 9 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:24:07 +0000 (GMT), Lee Willis said: > Check out http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/TR/REC-png-multi.html [3 hours later] Good grief, that's complicated. Bit over the top for a graphics card, isn't it? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 17:35:46 1996 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:53:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Tim Paveley To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Touched for the very first time... In-Reply-To: <33A33F43B3@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 644 Lines: 16 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Johnna Teare wrote: > Upper case and Lower case were the terms used in teh typesetting > rooms of printers. The capital letters were kept in a row of boxes > along the top of a shelf, and teh smaller letters were kept in boxes > along teh bottom. Therefore, upper and lower case. > > But really, this isn't very SAM related is it? But some may argue more interesting ;) .........................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - http://dplinux.sund.ac.uk/~unc/ Staff of the Monochrome BBS - http://www.mono.org/ Owner of a Sam Coupe - http://www.mono.org/~unc/Coupe/ From imc Wed Nov 20 17:41:15 1996 Subject: Re: Alice, who the .... is alice? (Sort of) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:41:15 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Lee Willis" at Nov 20, 96 10:42:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 177 Lines: 6 >>And there is NO excuse for bad mouthing someone, even if like A LOT of >>other people on the Internet I like to keep my real ID under my hat. "A LOT"? Evidence please! imc From imc Wed Nov 20 17:41:54 1996 Subject: Re: SOS GUI booting of CLI programs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:41:54 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9611200905.AA02107@asmal.edh-net> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Nov 20, 96 10:05:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 95 Lines: 6 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:05:02 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: > Please! No file-numbers. Eh? imc From imc Wed Nov 20 17:42:49 1996 Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:42:49 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9611200902.AA01970@asmal.edh-net> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Nov 20, 96 10:02:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 236 Lines: 7 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:02:12 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: > Are we talking hardware compression/decompression here? Someone put forward the proposition that you should be able to feed an image to the graphics board in GIF format. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 17:57:39 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:48:02 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1130 Lines: 32 > > From: A.S. Collier > To: PDVN.GWSMTP("sam-users@nvg.unit.no","asc25@hermes. > > Date: Wednesday 20 November, 1996 3:33 pm > > Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply > > Wha? It's called a header, young Andrew. > > Apparantly not, it's been pretty silent today (i.e. my PC > > isn't screaming mail notifications ever 30 seconds) > > We can soon change that, if you really want. But then I could disable my mailbox and save up all the messages and then bounce all back in one go, if you really want ;) >:-> :) AOL did this to a spamming net advertiser after saving up several months worth of undelivered mail to ex-AOL users. The spammer's server hit the deck like a sack of shit and then tried to prosecute AOL. They lost, AOL won. I was giggling my tits off all day. Anyway, onto more SAM based things, what's the easiest way of working out how much time there is left in a frame when code is running - would outputting to the border be relational to where the frame scan is? This is for a C program, but you can embedd assembler into the code with ease. Any takers? Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 18:05:05 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:59:13 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Alice, who the .... is alice? (Sort o - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 287 Lines: 14 > >>And there is NO excuse for bad mouthing someone, even if like A LOT of > >>other people on the Internet I like to keep my real ID under my hat. > > "A LOT"? Evidence please! Spot on. Anonymous users are normally associated with pervert posters to alt.sex.small.kiddies. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 18:05:51 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:04:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Touched for the very first time... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <911F387F75@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 566 Lines: 11 > Yuk yuk! I hate proportional fonts. Courier is actually my nemesis. > Nope, I read all your lovely letters in Times New Roman and very > lovely they look too - although most peoples sig file do look a bit > strange. Eh? Times New Roman /is/ a proportional font ... Courier is not. It's called monospaced. +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ | doubleback : a load of cunk | torus?- 1997? it'll | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | never get finished | +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 18:05:52 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:02:56 +0000 Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <9118DD675D@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 722 Lines: 13 > On the other hand, it does make sense for the graphics processor to have > direct access to the Z380's memory so that the Z380 can make a ready-made > bitmap for the graphics processor to blit on to the screen. (And if the > screen layout changes you don't have to change the Z380 program; you just > make the graphics processor interpret the bitmap while it's putting it on > the screen). I think that's what I was getting at, only you said it better ;) davee +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ | doubleback : a load of cunk | torus?- 1997? it'll | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | never get finished | +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 18:06:10 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:07:25 +0000 Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <912ED35E59@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 353 Lines: 9 > No, SAM stood for Some Amazing Machine. I thought it was Some Amazing Micro Captain Pedantic +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ | doubleback : a load of cunk | torus?- 1997? it'll | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | never get finished | +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 18:10:04 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:10:07 +0000 Subject: Re: SOS AGGHHhh proportional font Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <9137F102F4@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 622 Lines: 12 > DOUBLE DRAT! I surpose we are going to have to provide a proportional font > for our ARM chip. Stupid Microsoft Word 6, TRC compatable PC type people > will want it. I like proportional .. what's the problem? Obviously it goes without saying I'm reading this in Courier... But I really wouldn't mind a word processor with true-type (or similar) capabilities... +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ | doubleback : a load of cunk | torus?- 1997? it'll | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | never get finished | +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 18:10:43 1996 Message-Id: <199611201809.SAA24406@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Like a virgin???????????????????? Date: 19 Nov 1996 19:15:37 References: <199611182108.VAA28850@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 442 Lines: 14 Sup> I know Mr Bob, but I doubt that he knows me... And there is NO excuse Sup> for bad mouthing someone, even if like A LOT of other people on the Sup> Internet I like to keep my real ID under my hat. So you're a sad shy girlie then.. awww diddums.. It must be a shame to need to hide like that. :) Do you write anonymous messages in the dodgy newsgroups? :)) Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore email - davewhitmore@enterprise.net From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 18:10:49 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:12:19 +0000 Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT - Reply Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <9141177885@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 662 Lines: 12 > Yes, having a map for each file makes erase much easier - although DOS, > CP/M and Unix seem to manage without. :-) But we don't want the situation where a lot of the disc space is filled with info. files about the /files/ on the disc . . like Amigas were, I think. Erase doesn't even need to erase the files (very VERY few OSs do that - they just erase / otherwise change the directory entries) +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ | doubleback : a load of cunk | torus?- 1997? it'll | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | never get finished | +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 18:18:46 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:16:15 +0000 Subject: Re: The Romans are coming (ooer missus) Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <9152070A8F@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 420 Lines: 8 > Times Roman is the better font to read (because of its feet, damn I don't > know the English word for this one, in Dutch they are known as "Schreven"). Serifs. +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ | doubleback : a load of cunk | torus?- 1997? it'll | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | never get finished | +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 18:20:29 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:14:59 +0000 Subject: Re: SOS GUI booting of CLI programs Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <914C67373F@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 629 Lines: 16 > And how many hard drive installed TRC games are auto booting? ;o) Eh? Probably. (what?) > It would be much nicer (and not much harder to program) a GUI that can not [snip] Yup. Yer right. >(funny the way that SAMdoom from the other day has already turned into > SAMquake!) Almost funny - except SAMdoom would be easy, and SAMquake would be difficult, to produce... +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ | doubleback : a load of cunk | torus?- 1997? it'll | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | never get finished | +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 18:46:05 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:34:53 +0000 Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply - Reply - Reply Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <91A115260E@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1044 Lines: 20 > Anyway, onto more SAM based things, what's the easiest way of working out > how much time there is left in a frame when code is running - would outputting > to the border be relational to where the frame scan is? > > This is for a C program, but you can embedd assembler into the code with ease. One option is to read the HPEN (or the other one) port, to find out what vertical scan line yer on. Except this doesn't work in the border. You could, of course, assume the fram starts at the top of the SCREEN (ie, just below the border, pixel 0, etc etc) and so, as long as HPEN<192 you've still time left before you hit the border. Then the port goes to 0. So,if you read it and it's a zero, hey, you're almost out of time. This doesn't work if you have a lightpen connected ;) +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ | doubleback : a load of cunk | torus?- 1997? it'll | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | never get finished | +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 19:23:55 1996 Message-Id: <199611201917.TAA03675@mail.enterprise.net> From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: We'll get you yet! :) Date: 20 Nov 1996 19:03:11 X-Newsreader: Spot 1.3 X-Mailer: NetGate 1.3 (Amiga; TCP/IP) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 132 Lines: 13 Hey Samsboss! Your initials could be AF. Or am I wrong? Bye _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore email - davewhitmore@enterprise.net From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 20:39:45 1996 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:37:51 +0000 (GMT) From: "A.S. Collier" X-Sender: asc25@navy.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply - Reply - Reply In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1559 Lines: 41 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Dan Doore wrote: > > Wha? > It's called a header, young Andrew. Okay.... Why? No-one else includes them. What mailing program are you using? > Anyway, onto more SAM based things, what's the easiest way of working out > how much time there is left in a frame when code is running - would outputting > to the border be relational to where the frame scan is? > > This is for a C program, but you can embedd assembler into the code with ease. What exactly do you need? Do you want (a) the program itself to know how much time it has left, or (b) you, as a programmer, to see qualitively how much time the routine is taking? If you want (b) then outputting a value to either the border or the palette will work in machine code. I suspect that in C, the normal palette routine would change the screen colours only at frame interrupt, so you'd have to do it yourself (ie OUT 248,somevalue). Depending how C organises things, you'll probably need to remember to change it back to normal at frame interrupt. The line is very likely to jiggle around quite a lot, but you can use it as a rough guide; the further down the screen the line is, the more time the routine is taking. So I suppose the answer to your question was probably as simple as: yes. To do (a) is rather harder - reading HPEN would work UNLESS you've reached the border area below the bottom of the usual screen (or if you have a lightpen plugged in, but as far as I know nobody has even designed one of those, so people generally won't have it connected) Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 20:52:01 1996 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:42:12 GMT Message-Id: <199611202042.UAA06908@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Alice, who the .... is alice? (Sort of) From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1070 Lines: 25 On Nov 20, 1996 10:42:40, 'Lee Willis ' wrote: >Do I detect a slight ego trip with the choice of name here .... No! Ok, Well, Maybeee. As I said early on my SAM is, at the moment, the only thing I can boss around. Hence the name. Sadly, when I joined Pipeline, they told me I could have up to five screen names. But this parts not working on their system at the moment. So, I'm stuck with the username of Samsboss. But I promise, we at SAMSBOSS International, will do everything we can to help the project along. I must have some ability to offer, I've just got to find it. And as I said the other day, you can count on me to buy things as they are produced. In fact if I did not already have a SAMBUS my order for the clock board would be in the post already (thanks for the info Bob, got my Format the same day). > > > Oh yes, one last thing. Is there a plan to produce a speach synth for SAM? I did have one of the Blue Alpha ones but that was not very good so I sold it at one of the early Gloucester shows. Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Wed Nov 20 20:52:01 1996 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:44:55 GMT Message-Id: <199611202044.UAA07070@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: We'll get you yet! :) NOT :-( From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 254 Lines: 19 On Nov 20, 1996 19:03:11, 'davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave Whitmore)' wrote: >Hey Samsboss! > >Your initials could be AF. > >Or am I wrong? > > >Bye > >_ >|_)ave >(/\)hitmore email - davewhitmore@enterprise.net -- Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 07:06:47 1996 Date: 20 Nov 1996 23:09:20 +0000 Message-Id: <961121050121@digibank.demon.co.uk> From: Stewart Skardon To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: [None] Organization: Digital Databank BBS X-Mailer: ArcadeLink - Email/News Gateway X-System: DigiLink Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 718 Lines: 16 Subject : SAMSON Call me stupid if you must, but if all of the extras eg graphics card, z380 etc are going to be designed to work on existing SAMs, won't they overload the SAM, e.g drain too much power from it? Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick, but that's how things seem to me. Someone please let me know! -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Digital Databank BBS: +44-1707-323531 (300-28.8k/V42/42b) 24 hours | | FidoNet: 2:257/501.0 Sysop: jstonier@digibank.demon.co.uk | | (Acorn Information at your Fingertips) | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 07:42:09 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:40:01 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611210740.AA03972@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS GUI booting of CLI programs X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 152 Lines: 8 > On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:05:02 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: > > Please! No file-numbers. > > Eh? Wot? No file-numbers - like..in a header. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 09:36:00 1996 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199611211032.KAA06492@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SOS overloaded SAM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:32:04 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 519 Lines: 17 > > Subject : SAMSON > Call me stupid if you must, but if all of the extras eg graphics card, > z380 etc are going to be designed to work on existing SAMs, won't they > overload the SAM, e.g drain too much power from it? > > Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick, but that's how things seem to me. > > Someone please let me know! > Someone told me so I will tell you. Current Z80 based SAM = intelegent keyboard for the final machine. The Z380 based bit will eventualy be the new centre of the universe. Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 09:54:25 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961121095004.008e1b3c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:50:04 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 341 Lines: 10 At 05:48 PM 11/20/96 +0000, you wrote: >Anyway, onto more SAM based things, what's the easiest way of working out >how much time there is left in a frame when code is running - would outputting >to the border be relational to where the frame scan is? Yep, or changing a palette color... seems to be the usual way of doing it anyway :) Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 09:54:27 1996 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199611211048.KAA06618@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SAM name To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:48:41 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 204 Lines: 13 > > No, SAM stood for Some Amazing Machine. > > I thought it was Some Amazing Micro > > Captain Pedantic Bah! Son of Alan Miles sounds much better. ~ ~ ~ Pity it is not the case. Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 09:55:19 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961121095005.008ebc64@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:50:05 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Alice, who the .... is alice? (Sort o - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 278 Lines: 11 At 05:59 PM 11/20/96 +0000, you wrote: >Anonymous users are normally associated with pervert posters to >alt.sex.small.kiddies. Unfortunately. Anyway, you can always tell an anonymous user -- or you could -- they used to have an?????@anon.penet.fi as their address... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 09:55:19 1996 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199611211044.KAA06598@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: SOS GIF copyrights To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:44:57 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 732 Lines: 26 > > Check out http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/TR/REC-png-multi.html > > [3 hours later] > > Good grief, that's complicated. Bit over the top for a graphics card, > isn't > it? > > imc Funny, I had to go to... http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/TR/REC-png.html ...to get the info! Yes, we will need to provide something to read these from the web, but it is too much hassle to use compress to such a format just to get a normal immage/sprite to the card unless the I/O between the two is going to be THAT slow. Why worry about copyright problems involved in selling a GIF de-compresser/compresser? why don't we just put a copy of the code segment that we use to the job hidden away in a subdirectory at nvg and say that it is PD? Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 09:59:22 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:55:46 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply - Reply - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1390 Lines: 46 > > > Wha? > > It's called a header, young Andrew. > > Okay.... Why? No-one else includes them. What mailing > program are you using? I think RJV has them bolted onto his. It's to do with the shitty mailer I'm forced to use (WordPerfect - urg!) and it's inability to even *reply* to mails properly. I have to save out each message and then read them into the current message, that's why the header appears at the top. I usually edit it out. I want Pine back. Right now. > What exactly do you need? Do you want (a) the program > itself to know how much time it has left, or (b) you, > as a programmer, to see qualitively how much time the > routine is taking? [snip] Thanks for the info, I might have a play with the HPEN values later. What I needed is basically (b) since I'm having a bash at speed-coding in Sam C (stop giggling). After sending the mail yesterday it occured to me on the train that I could do it with border commands. To synchronise the frames I'm using a pause(1) command i.e. wait for next frame to soak up any remaining frame time so that my scrolly doesn't go all jerky. By placing a border(15) before the pause(1) and a border(0) after it I got a similar effect to the frame-time-remaining thing in the DWC demo and this seemed to relate to the amount of time remaining. Only thing to do now is to try and get a bit more time per frame :) Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 10:01:37 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961121095840.008dff14@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:58:40 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 743 Lines: 19 At 06:12 PM 11/20/96 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >> Yes, having a map for each file makes erase much easier - although DOS, >> CP/M and Unix seem to manage without. :-) >But we don't want the situation where a lot of the disc space is >filled with info. files about the /files/ on the disc . . like >Amigas were, I think. Erase doesn't even need to erase the files >(very VERY few OSs do that - they just erase / otherwise change the >directory entries) Oh, I dunno... as long as the info files don't take up more space than sticking them in the file they belong with, I'm all for them. Have I ever mentioned COGNOMEN files in this mailing list? They're an idea for an extension to the SAM DOS system I had a while back... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 10:01:37 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961121095841.009724b0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:58:41 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: New mailing list... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1329 Lines: 31 Dear everyone who knows a bit about unix programming, Anyone willing to bodge the sendmail program and maildaemon on a system they run? Let me continue... I'm going to write a mailing list program in JAVA... now, it needs to be able to handle lots of different usernames on incoming mail (the reason being that I'm going to have threading in it, therefore the name in the reply-to is the message-id of the message you're replying to... I'd do it the standard way, but not enough mailing software follows the standard [that option is optional, after all]). This, of course, causes the problem that you can't just have a program running on a particular mail-spool and handling it all from there -- it has to literally take control of the SMTP socket and do all the hard work. Of course, if you're on a stand-alone machine without a mail system running, this is no problem. However, if you wanted to run this on a normal mailer, you'd have to handle any mail coming in that wasn't for the list. Therefore, if someone can look at my code when I'm finished, and bodge it into the sendmail and SMTP daemon code, it should work dandy on most peoples mailers. The other solution, of course, is to run it on here (pc16.sss.co.uk), but that machine gets turned off at night by the cleaners... So there you go... any takers? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 10:04:23 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961121095842.00977a88@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:58:42 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: We'll get you yet! :) NOT :-( Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 136 Lines: 8 At 08:44 PM 11/20/96 GMT, you wrote: You're a real smart Alec, aren't you SAMSBOSS... Your initials aren't AC, are they Alec? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 10:14:49 1996 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199611211101.LAA06720@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: SOS GUI booting of CLI programs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:01:38 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1448 Lines: 41 > > And how many hard drive installed TRC games are auto booting? ;o) > Eh? Probably. (what?) TRC = (dare I say the current name of such an annoying and pointless PC co.? ...no, I cannot bring myself to mutter the 3 new evil letters.) > > It would be much nicer (and not much harder to program) a GUI that can > not > [snip] > > Yup. Yer right. > >(funny the way that SAMdoom from the other day has already turned into > > SAMquake!) > > Almost funny - except SAMdoom would be easy, and SAMquake would be > difficult, to produce... > +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ > | doubleback : a load of cunk | torus?- 1997? it'll | > | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | never get finished | > +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ only almost? Catchphrase of the day... Just because someting is impossible, doesn't mean to say that it cannot be done. With all of this retro-gaming it would be very easy to convince people that the games we write due to the heritige of our machine will be fun. We need some exelent but completely abstract (more abstact than miner willy!) games for the release date. (I hit my head last year and watched myself as an old bloke playing the coolest SAM game ever! I wrote down a brief description of it when I came around! I will look the description out!) Numb. What has happened to the content of the messages today? There is none! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 10:15:06 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961121101054.0097755c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:10:54 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply - Reply - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 763 Lines: 26 At 09:55 AM 11/21/96 +0000, you wrote: >To synchronise the frames I'm using a pause(1) command i.e. >wait for next frame to soak up any remaining frame time so >that my scrolly doesn't go all jerky. By placing a >border(15) before the pause(1) and a border(0) after it I >got a similar effect to the frame-time-remaining thing in >the DWC demo and this seemed to relate to the amount of >time remaining. > >Only thing to do now is to try and get a bit more time per >frame :) Well, you could start by using the out() command... I think you're looking for something like: int a = 15; out (254,a); // not sure of syntax... while ( (in(249) & 0x08) == 0x08) { } out (254,0); That *should* do it, though I'm still not sure of the in() and out() syntax... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 11:07:00 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: [None] To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:01:48 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <961121050121@digibank.demon.co.uk> from "Stewart Skardon" at Nov 20, 96 11:09:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 410 Lines: 11 > Call me stupid if you must, but if all of the extras eg graphics card, > z380 etc are going to be designed to work on existing SAMs, won't they > overload the SAM, e.g drain too much power from it? > Probably. The SAM's power supply is shaky enough as it is, so chances are that if anyone plugs all this gubbins into their SAM then they'll need a heftier PSU. How about adding a new PSU to the list, Bob? From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 11:07:33 1996 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:06:21 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sam interlacing Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <22A16CE6135@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 368 Lines: 9 > Various people have said they've got the technique working and > looking nice - but I haven't seen any good examples yet. I tried this with very rapid screen swapping.. It did create more colours.. But it was very dependant on the TV/Monitor you used. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "20 Dollars! Aw, I wanted a peanut.." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 11:41:31 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:34:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961119103227.008fbc98@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 674 Lines: 17 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Simon Cooke wrote: > At 04:37 PM 11/18/96 +0000, you wrote: > >Ah.. That wasn't the one I got.. It had the normal flap and the red light keeps > >itself on when I switch the machine on or reset it... > > Hmmmm.... get yourself a Disk Protector ;) A what? -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 11:53:01 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:46:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM. In-Reply-To: <9611191508.AA01613@booth1.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 791 Lines: 16 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:34:00 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: > > (a) is only a problem if the algorithm is used commercially. > > Well, unless the graphics boards are going to be given away, it sounds ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now.. that's the best idea I've heard in a LOOOONG time.. :) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 11:53:02 1996 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199611211217.MAA06895@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:17:58 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 782 Lines: 19 > >So the Z380 can be doing something more usefull. > >I don't think a second back end for the C compiler to compile graphics > >card code is a good idea. All of the code for the graphics card will > need to be superfast by definition. > > Ah, but C Compilers for ARM chips tend to give code which is more > optimised than is possible by hand-optimisation. No joke. So this is leading to is the design of a super C compiler, with a front end on the GUI and 3 different back ends! One for the ARM, one for the Z380 with its flat memory and one for the Z80 with its modified memory structure. I assume this compiler (with 2 or 3 sets of the standards librarys) will live on the flash of the Z380 along with the GUI and a fistfull of other standard applications. Am I wrong? Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 12:09:53 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961121120136.008e4c9c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:01:36 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 594 Lines: 22 At 11:34 AM 11/21/96 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Simon Cooke wrote: > >> At 04:37 PM 11/18/96 +0000, you wrote: >> >Ah.. That wasn't the one I got.. It had the normal flap and the red light keeps >> >itself on when I switch the machine on or reset it... >> >> Hmmmm.... get yourself a Disk Protector ;) > >A what? SC Disk Protector, as designed by Edwin Blink, available from Steve's Software. Alternatively, design yourself an 8MHz Clock generation boardfrom an Xtal and a couple of resistors, tantalum capacitors and an XOR chip in its non-linear mode :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 12:23:00 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:07:38 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 696 Lines: 25 > > > Hmmmm.... get yourself a Disk Protector ;) > > A what? A Disk Protector is a wee circuit board that fixes a SAM design bug and prevents your discs from getting trashed when you press reset with a disc in the drive. To trash a disc just follow these instructions: 1) Get a disc with about 40 files on it. 2) DIR 1 3) When it says 'Scroll?' press reset. Bingo Bango. It's dead easy to fit, just solder three wires, break one track. There are (AFAIK) two sources, one is SC_DPU from Steve Nutting and the other is cheaper and from Sam PD (Derek Morgan) but I can't remember much about this one. I have the SC_DPU and it has saved my life more times than I care to mention. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 12:27:00 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:17:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: [None] In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 681 Lines: 16 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Andrew M Gale wrote: > Probably. The SAM's power supply is shaky enough as it is, > so chances are that if anyone plugs all this gubbins into > their SAM then they'll need a heftier PSU. How about adding > a new PSU to the list, Bob? And a decent TV modulator... -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 12:30:15 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:21:22 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WebSite - Reply - Reply - Reply In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 926 Lines: 34 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Dan Doore wrote: ;>Anyway, onto more SAM based things, what's the easiest way of working out ;>how much time there is left in a frame when code is running - would outputting ;>to the border be relational to where the frame scan is? Yep, changing the border colour gives a fairly good indication, something like LD A,7 OUT (249),A and have XOR A OUT (249),A at the start of the frame to reset the border colour to zero at the top of the screen (If that made sense, I didn't explain it _too_ well ... ;> ;>This is for a C program, but you can embedd assembler into the code with ease. ;> Ah, perhaps you should preserve A first, or does the assembler automatically preserve everything its using before entering your code ?? Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 12:30:16 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1598 Lines: 39 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Dan Doore wrote: > A Disk Protector is a wee circuit board that fixes a SAM design bug and prevents > your discs from getting trashed when you press reset with a disc in the drive. I see... > To trash a disc just follow these instructions: > > 1) Get a disc with about 40 files on it. > 2) DIR 1 > 3) When it says 'Scroll?' press reset. > > Bingo Bango. What happened to the rule the you NEVER EVER press Reset/Power-off with the disk in the machine? It was something I learned from my Speccy/Wafadrive days.. > It's dead easy to fit, just solder three wires, break one track. Uh-oh... Taking apart my SAM and soldering... Did I ever tell you about the time I took apart my Speccy, proke the three legs on the voltage regulator, ruined the keyboard connections and then soldered all three legs of the regulator together.. But, then again, I was a kid back then.. > There are (AFAIK) two sources, one is SC_DPU from Steve Nutting and the other is > cheaper and from Sam PD (Derek Morgan) but I can't remember much about this one. > > I have the SC_DPU and it has saved my life more times than I care to mention. I'll have to have a look out for one of these things... -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 12:39:14 1996 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199611211259.MAA07004@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: A 'TO-DO' LIST -economy To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:59:35 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2398 Lines: 59 Good time scale! The other thing to-do is to re-raise the question of the ownerships of the machines sofware code and design. Are we intending to make the CLI, GUI and applications code PD? This is not a good idea considering the work that we will all put into the project! I am sure a lot of people would be unhappy if you out-sold the original SAM with the final version of the new machine and they made next to nothing for their hard work in making it what it is. It we do go to town on the applications and choose to selflessly bundled them with the machine such as the spread sheet, word processor etc. I can see that, one day, a systems analyst will be looking around an office or factory and perscribing a network of SAMSONs! We could knock the socks off Mr. Computer Shopper reviewer. This may sound unrealistic considering the bias of such mags and professionals, but if the GUI and applications are the best around (which shouldn't actually be as hard as it sounds looking at what the competition are ACTUALLY like) and price is unbelevable they may start to lapse their 'it costs more so must be better' oppinions. Of course, we need not go silly with what is provided as applications with the machine, the 'quality word processor' would be a bad idea to actually stick as standard with the machine as professionals like to purchase such things. Yet it would be a good idea for large groups of us on the list to all help with the writing of such programs in exactly the same way as we must write the operating system and bundled software. So that they can be ready in time for any release date. How about starting 2 two different circles of development early next year, where by we all take the same part in the 'with the machine' products as the 'quality tools to be sold seperatly' products (to prevent some people from doing more work on the operating sytem and less in the other sector so making less money). How many and what desktop applications does everyone else think we need to put on the flash? And what comercial applications need to be systematically written at the same time to bring the release date forwards? The bottom line... It will be the software that is available at the release date that will sell the machine. -that was perhaps SAMs 3rd biggest flaw, it all seemed too amature Numb. (SAM flaw 1 = White colour!, SAM flaw 2 = Late release) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 13:12:16 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:34:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 404 Lines: 14 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Justin Skists wrote: ;>What happened to the rule the you NEVER EVER press Reset/Power-off with the ;>disk in the machine? It was something I learned from my Speccy/Wafadrive days.. Disk protectors are for when you forget .... Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 13:12:17 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:34:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Fast C Code Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 307 Lines: 11 Oops, ignore 249 in my last post. I think 254 is the right number, it's the border control, or if you've got border set to 0 then you could use 248 ... Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 13:12:17 1996 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199611211302.NAA07015@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: SOS power drain To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:02:25 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 533 Lines: 15 > > > Call me stupid if you must, but if all of the extras eg graphics card, > > z380 etc are going to be designed to work on existing SAMs, won't they > > overload the SAM, e.g drain too much power from it? > > > > Probably. The SAM's power supply is shaky enough as it is, > so chances are that if anyone plugs all this gubbins into > their SAM then they'll need a heftier PSU. How about adding > a new PSU to the list, Bob? That is one of his reasons (excuses?) for choosing to use PC cases (the in-built power supplys) Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 13:55:46 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:15:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@fermat.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: SAM users list Subject: SCREEN$ to PPM? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 713 Lines: 14 I remember someone saying something about that they wrote a SAM to PPM (Portable Pixel Map) converter.... I was wondering if he/she could send me a copy or point to a place where I could get a copy. I found a couple of lovely screens that I want to stick on my Web pages when I was going through some old disks... :) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From imc Thu Nov 21 15:12:18 1996 Subject: Re: SCREEN$ to PPM? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:12:18 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Justin Skists" at Nov 21, 96 01:15:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2156 Lines: 80 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:15:57 +0000 (GMT), Justin Skists said: > I remember someone saying something about that they wrote a SAM to PPM > (Portable Pixel Map) converter.... That would have been I. This program works as a filter (i.e. supply up to two file names, the first for input and the second for output, defaulting to stdin and stdout respectively). Only mode 4 screens are supported. No guarantees. imc #include typedef int rgbval[3]; int in[256][192]; rgbval out[256][192]; char pal[40]; unsigned char lintable[1024]; rgbval cmap[16]; main(argc,argv)char **argv;{ FILE *fin=stdin; FILE *fout=stdout; int i,j,x,y; int maxval=255; int linptr=0; if(argc>1 && !(fin=fopen(argv[1],"rb"))){ perror(argv[1]); exit(1); } for(y=0;y<192;y++)for(x=0;x<256;x+=2){ i=getc(fin); if(i==EOF){ fputs("Unexpected EOF on input\n",stderr); exit(1); } in[x][y]=i>>4; in[x+1][y]=i&15; } fread(pal,1,40,fin); for(linptr=0;(i=getc(fin))!=EOF;lintable[linptr++]=i); if(lintable[linptr-1]!=255 || linptr%4!=1){ fputs("File end error while reading line table\n",stderr); lintable[linptr&~3]=255; } linptr=0; for(y=0;y<192;y++){ while(lintable[linptr]==y-1){ pal[lintable[linptr+1]]=lintable[linptr+2]; linptr+=4; } for(x=0;x<16;x++)unsam(pal[x],maxval,&cmap[x]); for(x=0;x<256;x++) for(i=0;i<3;i++) out[x][y][i]=cmap[in[x][y]][i]; } if(argc>2 && !(fout=fopen(argv[2],"wb"))){ perror(argv[2]); exit(1); } fputs("P6\n",fout); fprintf(fout,"#Created by samtoppm from %s",argc>1?argv[1]: "standard input"); if(linptr)fprintf(fout," with %d palette changes",linptr/4); fprintf(fout,"\n%d %d\n%d\n",256,192,maxval); for(y=0;y<192;y++)for(x=0;x<256;x++)for(i=0;i<3;i++) putc(out[x][y][i],fout); fclose(fout); return 0; } unsam(sam,max,dest)rgbval dest;{ max++; dest[0]=((sam&32)/8+(sam&2)+(sam&8)/8)*max/8; dest[1]=((sam&64)/16+(sam&4)/2+(sam&8)/8)*max/8; dest[2]=((sam&16)/4+(sam&1)*2+(sam&8)/8)*max/8; } From imc Thu Nov 21 16:40:09 1996 Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:09 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9141177885@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Nov 20, 96 06:12:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 653 Lines: 13 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:12:19 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > > Yes, having a map for each file makes erase much easier - although DOS, > > CP/M and Unix seem to manage without. :-) > But we don't want the situation where a lot of the disc space is > filled with info. files about the /files/ on the disc Well every operating system has a different way of storing files and they all have their advantages and disadvantages. Personally I like CP/M for small files (there's a small list of block numbers actually in the directory) and Unix's for large files (the inode points to a disk block that contains a list of block numbers containing the file). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:42:12 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:17:30 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 327 Lines: 12 > Disk protectors are for when you forget .... Murphey's Law says that the more important the information the more likely it is to get trashed. For the miserably small amount of cash (one DPU = one nights boozing money if you're a stoodent) it's better safe than sorry. I should get commission for all this plugging! Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:42:31 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:22:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@fermat.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961121120136.008e4c9c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 649 Lines: 17 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Simon Cooke wrote: > Alternatively, design yourself an 8MHz Clock generation boardfrom an Xtal > and a couple of resistors, tantalum capacitors and an XOR chip in its > non-linear mode :) *gulp* Where did I put my cheque book? :) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:42:32 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961121125412.0097256c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:54:12 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 329 Lines: 9 At 12:23 PM 11/21/96 +0000, you wrote: >What happened to the rule the you NEVER EVER press Reset/Power-off with the >disk in the machine? It was something I learned from my Speccy/Wafadrive days.. I've had disks corrupted by the controller chip when I've put them back in /after/ a reset... Which is why I bought a DPU. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:42:36 1996 Date: 20 Nov 1996 17:49:53 +0000 Message-Id: <961121050112@digibank.demon.co.uk> From: Stewart Skardon To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: SAMSON ideas Organization: Digital Databank BBS X-Mailer: ArcadeLink - Email/News Gateway X-System: DigiLink Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1852 Lines: 52 No doubt half the stuff I mention will have been sorted out, but nevermind. Will the SAMSON have: Support for a CD ROM drive, also reading music CD's and MSDOS CD's? An Ethernet network card - surely this would get interest from schools and perhaps small business establishments. It would also give SAMSON the capabilities to transfer files easily between different platforms via the network. If not, how about a SAMSON specific network. And lets get it to work properly. A joystick port? Will SAMSON have a built in Printer, RS232, and Mouse port, so that we won't require interfaces? Comments: Let's have SIMMS, please! Upto 16Meg would be sufficient I would have thought. Internal expansion slots, for cards, say up to 5. The case could be designed so that it can be used in either a tower style, or so that the user can lay the case flat, and rest a TV/Monitor on top of it. Please, let's keep compatability with the Coupe and Elite. That way, we won't forget all of our already amazing software. Let's have a Hi-res 256 colour (or more) screen mode, which can be used by the GUI as well as other programs. A fully multitasking GUI, like Acorn's RISC OS 3. With drag and drop facilities. I assume the SAMSON will have a built in clock board. How about someone creating a SCSI interface, for Scanners, Hard discs etc. Sorry to have waffled so much, and I hope that I have raised at least one or two valid questions. Stewart Skardon. -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Digital Databank BBS: +44-1707-323531 (300-28.8k/V42/42b) 24 hours | | FidoNet: 2:257/501.0 Sysop: jstonier@digibank.demon.co.uk | | (Acorn Information at your Fingertips) | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:42:36 1996 Date: 20 Nov 1996 17:58:40 +0000 Message-Id: <961121050115@digibank.demon.co.uk> From: Stewart Skardon To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: SAMSON Organization: Digital Databank BBS X-Mailer: ArcadeLink - Email/News Gateway X-System: DigiLink Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 547 Lines: 12 Can Bob (or anyone else) tell me what will happen to the Coupe and Elite once SAMSON is available. Will WCC stop supporting them? Stewart Skardon -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Digital Databank BBS: +44-1707-323531 (300-28.8k/V42/42b) 24 hours | | FidoNet: 2:257/501.0 Sysop: jstonier@digibank.demon.co.uk | | (Acorn Information at your Fingertips) | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:42:37 1996 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:40:58 GMT+0 Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <4900D9285B@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 274 Lines: 11 > > No, SAM stood for Some Amazing Machine. > > I thought it was Some Amazing Micro Either way, it was the crappest name for a computer I've ever heard. > > Captain Pedantic Johnna Pig Teare (j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk) "Mab is the Queen and there's a good apothecary man!" From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:42:37 1996 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:12:32 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Flaw boards Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <499E4F7D95@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 193 Lines: 8 > (SAM flaw 1 = White colour!, SAM flaw 2 = Late release) > SAM flaw 2 and a half = crap name Johnna Pig Teare (j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk) "Mab is the Queen and there's a good apothecary man!" From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:42:49 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:58:44 +0000 Subject: Re: SCREEN$ to PPM? Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 543 Lines: 9 > I remember someone saying something about that they wrote a SAM to PPM > (Portable Pixel Map) converter.... Might have been me, but it wasn't /exactly/ what I'd said... If you give me the PPM specs I'll write one! (It'd probably be in QBASIC on a PC ATM as my SAM is ... not here ...) +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ | doubleback : a load of cunk | torus?- 1997? it'll | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | never get finished | +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:42:49 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:13:07 +0000 Subject: SAMSON: bundled software Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2323 Lines: 46 If we bundle a wordprocessor (<< WHICH I THINK WE'LL /HAVE/ TO DO!) how /good/ would it be? There's essentially two types. Well, obviously not, but it helps this discussion ;) o text editors. Yuk. Fine in their own way, but the people want more than this. I think of emacs. Well, ok, maybe not. That's fine for what it does, but I'd never call it a word processor. Maybe Notepad. I'd probably still call that a text editor / word processor. o 'better-than-just-text-editors'. Not just monospaced fonts. If people want to use a wordprocessor for monospaced stuff, fine, but the chances are they may well want to use it for more. A lot of non-monospaced fonts are nicer. Microsoft Write. I hate it (no surprise there) but I'd call it a word processor and not a simple text editor. Mainly because it can do /proportional/ (ie, not fixed-space) justification, has decent word wrap, and handles different sorts of fonts. o 'ones-that-want-to-be-a-poor-mans-DTP-package' One day, Samson, you'll have one of these. But not bundled with the machine, hoh no! I never bought a SAM word processor so I don't know how good any were, suffice it to say I only used SAmscratch (sam supplement!). But from what I had seen, I don't recall any that, when printing, used anything other than the printer's fonts, printer's handling of justification, etc. Rather printer-specification dependant (ie, inflexible). Not being too hot on the programming front (for word processors at least) I would /not/ say the bundled software would be easy enough to write. HOPEFULLY I could be proved wrong ;) If SAMSON comes with a decent set of bundled software (ie, better tha what you get bundled with Windows 3.11, say, which 'wouldn't be hard' according to someone - we shall see!) than I, for one, would probably buy it on this alone. For 400 quid, try and buy another machine with decent sound and graphics, very usable word processing, image manipulation, sound editting suite, spread sheet, web surfing software... GUI ... games ... yup! yum yum : ] +---------------------------------------+------------------------+ | a shot in the dark with a rubber gun | wizards and 3D an | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | unbeatable combination | +---------------------------------------+------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:43:03 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:58:16 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: SCREEN$ to PPM? - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 295 Lines: 12 > I found a couple of lovely screens that I want to > stick on my Web pages when I was going through some old disks... :) You could always use Sam->BMP by Paul Crompton from one of the FRED discs, that works fine and then use something to convert it over to GIF/JPEG/PPM or whatever. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:43:06 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:48:48 +0000 Subject: Re: SAM speech... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 735 Lines: 13 > Oh yes, one last thing. Is there a plan to produce a speach synth for SAM? > I did have one of the Blue Alpha ones but that was not very good so I sold > it at one of the early Gloucester shows. Would be a piece of cake in software on SAMSON. Probably on the SAM too. Yeh. I'd get right on it if I had the sample know-how. I could do it easily enough, but not efficiently. If someone does the sample playback bitty, I'd do the rest... probably... I'll see what I can do. +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ | doubleback : a load of cunk | torus?- 1997? it'll | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | never get finished | +---------------------------------------+---------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:43:20 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SOS power drain To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:32:05 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199611211302.NAA07015@BITS.bris.ac.uk> from "Stephen Harding" at Nov 21, 96 01:02:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 622 Lines: 16 > > Probably. The SAM's power supply is shaky enough as it is, > > so chances are that if anyone plugs all this gubbins into > > their SAM then they'll need a heftier PSU. How about adding > > a new PSU to the list, Bob? > > That is one of his reasons (excuses?) for choosing to use PC cases (the > in-built power supplys) > I was thinking of a direct replacement for the existing SAM PSU - not for SAMSon owners. I think the modulator board could be moved to a box which plugs into the scart connector (similar to the modulator box on the amiga) and then the actual PSU can just be a brick providing 5v and 12v. -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 16:43:37 1996 Subject: Re: SCREEN$ to PPM? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:01:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: from "Justin Skists" at Nov 21, 96 01:15:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <96Nov21.155108+0000_gmt.47148-817+4@sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 422 Lines: 11 > I remember someone saying something about that they wrote a SAM to PPM > (Portable Pixel Map) converter.... > > I was wondering if he/she could send me a copy or point to a place where I > could get a copy. I found a couple of lovely screens that I want to stick on my > Web pages when I was going through some old disks... :) I'm not positive, but I think there may be a copyo f my SAM->BMP converter on NVG, Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 17:06:18 1996 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: Edinburgh Uni (CS and MATHS) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:34:07 +0000 Subject: Re: SAMSON ideas Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2590 Lines: 70 > Support for a CD ROM drive, also reading music CD's and MSDOS CD's? Yes eventually. Depends on ... > How about someone creating a SCSI interface, for Scanners, Hard > discs etc. Ppphhhh! Well, lets' see, eh? Hard discs are important . . . is the HD interface SCSI or EIDE, or neither? > An Ethernet network card - surely this would get interest from schools and > perhaps small business establishments. Networking will be there, but whether it's in the form of a separate card or via existing interfaces (using serial or parallel ports, or midi ports - hey, will SAMSON have these? They'd be nice...as would having the 'card midi-compatible...) > A joystick port? probably. Don't see why not. Which standard though? Atari or something else (analog, say) > Will SAMSON have a built in Printer, RS232, and Mouse port, so that we won't > require interfaces? Yup. Maybe not a dedicated mouse port, probably just a couple of serial ports into which one could plug a mouse > Let's have SIMMS, please! Upto 16Meg would be sufficient I would have thought. Ooh, I hope so. Any other memory standard is just asking for trouble. > The case could be designed so that it can be used in either a tower style, or > so that the user can lay the case flat, and rest a TV/Monitor on top > of it. Probably not on this one. I was under the impression we'd be using a PC-style case because they're dead easy to get hold of and cheap. There just isn't the cash for designing a new box, specially not a fancy one. > Please, let's keep compatability with the Coupe and Elite. That way, we won't > forget all of our already amazing software. SAMSON will be coupe compatible, so I've heard. Did we ever resolve the situation with retaining a Z80 for compatibility in the finished SAMSON, or using the Z380 at the expensive of some demos, etc, not working. ? > Let's have a Hi-res 256 colour (or more) screen mode, which can be used by the > GUI as well as other programs. That's there for definite. > A fully multitasking GUI, like Acorn's RISC OS 3. With drag and drop > facilities. Yup. Well, probably. 'Fully multitasking' I don't know about, but hey, I'm not the one writing it. > I assume the SAMSON will have a built in clock board. I bl**dy hope so! Re-use SAM hardware, I say. (clock/calender thingy) +---------------------------------------+------------------------+ | a shot in the dark with a rubber gun | wizards and 3D an | | http://www.geocities.com/area51/5636/ | unbeatable combination | +---------------------------------------+------------------------+ From imc Thu Nov 21 17:11:43 1996 Subject: Re: SOS GUI booting of CLI programs To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:11:43 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9611210740.AA03972@asmal.edh-net> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Nov 21, 96 08:40:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 157 Lines: 6 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:40:01 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: > Wot? No file-numbers - like..in a header. OK, but magic numbers like in Unix are allowed? imc From imc Thu Nov 21 17:15:06 1996 Subject: Re: SOS GIF copyrights To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:15:06 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199611211044.KAA06598@BITS.bris.ac.uk> from "Stephen Harding" at Nov 21, 96 10:44:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 969 Lines: 23 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:44:57 +0000 (GMT), Stephen Harding said: > Yes, we will need to provide something to read these from the web, but it > is too much hassle to use compress to such a format just to get a normal > immage/sprite to the card unless the I/O between the two is going to be > THAT slow. My thoughts entirely. It would be good to have an "xv" as a general image thingy that can handle PNG and all other sorts of files, but I still think that image compression should be the job of the application program and not of the graphics card. > Why worry about copyright problems involved in selling a GIF > de-compresser/compresser? > why don't we just put a copy of the code segment that we use to the job > hidden away in a subdirectory at nvg and say that it is PD? Because we are discussing stuff that programmers will have to assume is on the graphics board, so making someone get this thing from nvg before any program will work is a bit silly. imc From imc Thu Nov 21 17:17:07 1996 Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:17:07 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Doore" at Nov 21, 96 12:07:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 205 Lines: 6 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:07:38 +0000, Dan Doore said: > I have the SC_DPU and it has saved my life more times than I care to mention. Is the software for your ventilator stored on a Sam disk then?... imc From imc Thu Nov 21 17:20:44 1996 Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:20:44 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199611211217.MAA06895@BITS.bris.ac.uk> from "Stephen Harding" at Nov 21, 96 12:17:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 641 Lines: 13 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:17:58 +0000 (GMT), Stephen Harding said: > I assume this compiler (with 2 or 3 sets of the standards librarys) will > live on the flash of the Z380 along with the GUI and a fistfull of other > standard applications. I'm not sure the flash memory is the right place for a C compiler. In fact probably just the operating system should be on there (the windowing system counts as part of this... but are user preferences going to be stored there or will they have to be loaded from disk? It's probably a bit fiddly to insist that the user switches the read/write switch every time the preferences are changed). imc From imc Thu Nov 21 17:28:03 1996 Subject: Re: SAMSON: bundled software To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:28:03 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Dave Hooper" at Nov 21, 96 03:13:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1605 Lines: 40 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:13:07 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > If we bundle a wordprocessor (<< WHICH I THINK WE'LL /HAVE/ TO DO!) > how /good/ would it be? > There's essentially two types. Well, obviously not, but it helps this > discussion ;) > o text editors. Yuk. How do you edit your C programs then? > That's fine for > what it does, but I'd never call it a word processor. True, but text editors are good for a lot of things. You only really need a word processor if you are going to print it out and want it to look flashy (note: I didn't say 'nice' :-) ). > o 'better-than-just-text-editors'. Never used one myself, but I'll have to concede that some people find them very useful. But you still need a text editor if you want to create ASCII-only files. Not that a single text editor will be sufficient, of course. Why do you think there are a million Unix text editors?... :-) The third type is of course the text processor, which entails you writing the text in an ordinary text editor and then compiling it into a document that you can print out in nice fonts. > I never bought a SAM word processor so I don't know how good any > were, suffice it to say I only used SAmscratch (sam supplement!). > But from what I had seen, I don't recall any that, when printing, > used anything other than the printer's fonts, printer's handling of > justification, etc. Then you can't really comment because such a thing certainly exists (I believe it is called SC_Wordpro, but Andrew is better qualified to comment because he has a copy). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 17:42:08 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:02:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@isidore.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961121125412.0097256c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1124 Lines: 24 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Simon Cooke wrote: > At 12:23 PM 11/21/96 +0000, you wrote: > >What happened to the rule the you NEVER EVER press Reset/Power-off with the > >disk in the machine? It was something I learned from my Speccy/Wafadrive days.. > > I've had disks corrupted by the controller chip when I've put them back in > /after/ a reset... Which is why I bought a DPU. That might explain those few sector errors I came across when going through my old SAM disks.. I just thought: Hmmm... Sector error... I aint got a clue what was on this disk... FORMAT!!! And I always thought it was because I have a tendencey of throwing disks on my bed... or using them as a tea-mat.. (only kidding... I never throw disks around! :) ) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Don't take life so seriously, | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | you'll never survive it! | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | - (C) CamLoRTS 1996 | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 17:48:11 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961121172152.008ea384@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:21:52 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SAMSON ideas Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1600 Lines: 53 At 04:34 PM 11/21/96 +0000, you wrote: >> Support for a CD ROM drive, also reading music CD's and MSDOS CD's? > >Yes eventually. Depends on ... Let's put it this way -- we could do this with the existing IDE interface we've got, and also do it with the SCSI stuff with just the low-level bits rewritten... We need something like the Linux VFS (virtual file system) >> How about someone creating a SCSI interface, for Scanners, Hard >> discs etc. > >Ppphhhh! Well, lets' see, eh? >Hard discs are important . . . is the HD interface SCSI or EIDE, or >neither? Both... SCSI's nice and easy to implement, in fact easier than IDE, but more expensive... >> A joystick port? > >probably. Don't see why not. Which standard though? Atari or >something else (analog, say) Both -- well, why not (the graphics card will be able to handle analogue joysticks... now now, don't laugh! :) ) >> Will SAMSON have a built in Printer, RS232, and Mouse port, so that we won't >> require interfaces? > >Yup. Maybe not a dedicated mouse port, probably just a couple of >serial ports into which one could plug a mouse And AFAIK, the mouse stuff is integrated into the graphics card too :) >> Let's have SIMMS, please! Upto 16Meg would be sufficient I would have thought. > >Ooh, I hope so. Any other memory standard is just asking for trouble. I dunno... they're up to 144 pin SIMMS now... but agreed, some form of SIMM is essential >> I assume the SAMSON will have a built in clock board. > >I bl**dy hope so! Re-use SAM hardware, I say. (clock/calender thingy) Bugger that... it keeps losing data. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:01:20 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:06 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121122806_1083679781@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: How long a filename? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 189 Lines: 10 In a message dated 20/11/96 09:07:07, you write: >Please! No file-numbers. > > -Frode Talking of which, how about longer filenames? What do you think? 20 characters, 32, 128, 256? Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:01:20 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:17 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121122816_1682973349@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A 'TO-DO' LIST -economy Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1382 Lines: 35 In a message dated 21/11/96 12:33:04, you write: >Good time scale! > >The other thing to-do is to re-raise the question of the ownerships of the >machines sofware code and design. Good point. This will need thinking about. I'm against total PD, because if someone is not going to make anything out of things then it is more difficult to keep them to deadlines, and much harder to get them to debug the system at a later date when things may go wrong. I also feel that work should have its reward anyway. The only problem is lack of money. > And I don't think your comments re Computer Shopper are un-realistic. It may take us to the grandsoneofsam to get to that stage. But is we set our sights high, then even our faliures will be successes by other peoples standards (Richard DeVos, The Magic Of Thinking Big, wonderful book). > I think there is a lot of work still to be done to get the specs right, but in the meantime we will have to give thought to a) how to pay for early hand-built boards to allow programmers to get started - although once the specs are right programmers can start by using emulation. b) how to allow that odd programmer/hardware buff to get involved even though they are skint (I can't believe that applies to more of you as I know lots have very nice studant grants to live on.... Still, anyone else with some comments on finance. > >Numb. > Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:02:23 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:02 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121122801_2081847972@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Proportional type. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 747 Lines: 26 In a message dated 19/11/96 18:14:09, you write: >So what about ASCII graphics then? The only place I have seen ascii graphics used in the last few years is here, in these mailings. Talk about the dark ages. > What abour curses applications? What >about commands that print things out in a tabulated manner? Thereare these things called TABS, lots of different sorts, all used to TABulate things, but even those are moving over in favour of in-line tables. > >> Proportional fonts are much easier to read. > >Says who? Every book that has been written on the subject of typography. Just pull any book on DTP and see what they say. The same applies to Serif typefaces, for body text you should use a serif face every time. > >imc Bob. > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:02:24 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:12 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121122811_1284917285@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS AGGHHhh proportional font Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 269 Lines: 10 In a message dated 20/11/96 18:07:09, you write: >I like proportional .. what's the problem? >Obviously it goes without saying I'm reading this in Courier... Why do you say "Obviously"? If I want to read email in Courier I would have to use a word processor. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:02:27 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:09 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121122808_1150781733@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Alice, who the .... is alice? (Sort of) Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1020 Lines: 24 In a message dated 20/11/96 17:42:43, you write: >"A LOT"? Evidence please! > >imc Just had to butt in here Ian. If you look at, for instance, AOL, then it is VERY rare to find anyone using their real name. Screen names are of such limited length that you have to do something. I was lucky that there was no other Brenchley on the system (although RBrenchley was turned down for some reason, and so was my first choice of jusr FORMAT). Join in on any of the on-line chats and debates and the strange names people use is very inventive. Childish? Yes, a little. Although I do know one person quite well who uses a very strange name because he could not afford for his boss finding out that he gives help and advice to people over the net for free, when his boss wants to charge 55ukp an hour for his time. >From my own point of view, if Samsboss wants to use that name, wants to be a little 'round the bend' the let him (or her). There is no harm, even though a few people seem to be a bit prickley about it. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:02:40 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:13 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121122812_1351919141@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 240 Lines: 10 In a message dated 21/11/96 10:00:46, you write: >Have I ever mentioned COGNOMEN files in this mailing list? They're an idea >for an extension to the SAM DOS system I had a while back... > >Simon Not that I remember, tell us more. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:02:40 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:14 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121122813_1452582309@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 161 Lines: 9 In a message dated 21/11/96 11:50:59, you write: >Am I wrong? >Numb. I hope you are, otherwise the flash/sram alone will break the bank for most users. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:02:43 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:14 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121122814_1552614693@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Obey the golden rule for disc safety. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 666 Lines: 21 In a message dated 21/11/96 12:25:57, you write: >What happened to the rule the you NEVER EVER press Reset/Power-off with the >disk in the machine? It was something I learned from my Speccy/Wafadrive >days.. > >Justin Skists Yes Justin, it is a golden rule, it should always be applied. I've worked with so many DISCiPLE, PLUS D and SAM discs over the years and I can say that I have only managed to corrupt a handful of disc - and every time it was because I broke the rule. If you use a disc protector then you run a higher risk of breaking the other rule, never leave a disc in the drive for long periods. Save money and stick with the golden rule. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:02:51 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:10 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121122809_1251378341@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 230 Lines: 11 In a message dated 20/11/96 18:04:51, you write: >> No, SAM stood for Some Amazing Machine. > >I thought it was Some Amazing Micro > >Captain Pedantic I think he used that one a bit later, but whichever - it is isn't it? Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:02:52 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:09 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121122809_1184332325@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Alice, who the .... is alice? (Sort o - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 530 Lines: 16 In a message dated 20/11/96 18:04:18, you write: >Spot on. > >Anonymous users are normally associated with pervert posters to >alt.sex.small.kiddies. > >Dan. Oh come on Dan, that is far from fair and even further from the truth. If I log on to the Sunday News Debate (AOL 8-9pm) I use my primary account screen-name 'Format Pub'. In the average debate I doubt that you would see more than a handful of screen-names that have any relation to the persons real name - does that make the vast majority of AOL users perverts? Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:02:52 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:13 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121122812_1318471205@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: How The Extras Get Their Power. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 582 Lines: 18 In a message dated 21/11/96 07:06:41, you write: >Call me stupid if you must, but if all of the extras eg graphics card, >z380 etc are going to be designed to work on existing SAMs, won't they >overload the SAM, e.g drain too much power from it? No, can't call you stupid, you may come round and hit me... And as it is a very valid question, you get a very valid answer. The Buffer board that Nev has designed has provision for connecting the power lines (0v & +5v) to a PC type power supply. There will also be an adaptor to go into the SAM's power socket as well. > Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:02:52 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:48:49 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961121124848_1716537761@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAMSON Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 857 Lines: 20 In a message dated 21/11/96 16:49:20, you write: >Can Bob (or anyone else) tell me what will happen to the Coupe and Elite >once SAMSON is available. Will WCC stop supporting them? > >Stewart Skardon No, but they may well stop building the Elite. As I said in the first SAMSON mailing, I will have to convice them, or someone else, to come up with the money to put SAMSON into production. That is why we are going down the route of building things as add-ons, it both acts as a test-bed so the bugs are ironed out, and it gives us something to show and say "Well the SAMSON will work like this... but it will all be in one box." And as I have siad a couple of times before you came onto the list, the bottom line is - if SAMSON never gets into production, then at least we have made a nice collection of add-ons to expand our SAM horizons. Bob. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Nov 21 18:18:22 1996 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:15:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Tim Paveley To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Samson text editor (was Re: SAMSON: bundled software) In-Reply-To: <9611211728.AA04105@booth12.ecs.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1299 Lines: 26 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 Ian.Collier@comlab.ox.ac.uk wrote: > > o 'better-than-just-text-editors'. > Never used one myself, but I'll have to concede that some people find > them very useful. But you still need a text editor if you want to create > ASCII-only files. > Not that a single text editor will be sufficient, of course. Why do you > think there are a million Unix text editors?... :-) Mate of mine (Manga of SSP;) swears by an arc text editor called !Zap, and looking at it I can see why. For a start it is a blindingly fast text editor. Add to that programmers can add there own 'modules' (or something) to it, so that it can have lots of different modes (ie, normal text, a C mode, a Basic mode, and more, where ie the programming modes will highlight reserved words/numbers/strings different colours, tab works nice and sensibly for indentation, and ie in basic mode automatically sorts out line numbers, by inserting new ones when you add a line in the middle and renumbering if necessary. Something like that would be nice :) Tim ....@/ .........................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - http://dplinux.sund.ac.uk/~unc/ Staff of the Monochrome BBS - http://www.mono.org/ Owner of a Sam Coupe - http://www.mono.org/~unc/Coupe/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 00:04:33 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: Samson text editor (was Re: SAMSON: bundled software) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:03:18 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Tim Paveley" at Nov 21, 96 06:15:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 348 Lines: 10 > Mate of mine (Manga of SSP;) swears by an arc text editor called !Zap, > I really like the auto filename fill in on UNIX - for example if I have a file called 'rubbish' then I just type 'ru' and press escape and it fills the rest in. I'd love a text editor that would recognise certain keywords and fill in the rest when I press esc.... -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 07:45:55 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:44:05 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611220744.AA08443@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS GUI booting of CLI programs X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 221 Lines: 9 > On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:40:01 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: > > Wot? No file-numbers - like..in a header. > > OK, but magic numbers like in Unix are allowed? Yes - hey, why don't we just port .....Linux? ;) -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 07:58:20 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:56:21 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611220756.AA08452@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: How long a filename? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 380 Lines: 14 > In a message dated 20/11/96 09:07:07, you write: > > >Please! No file-numbers. > > > > -Frode > > Talking of which, how about longer filenames? What do you think? 20 > characters, 32, 128, 256? Just to be on the safe side, make it variable up to 256 characters. The directory information coould then be the length of the entry, the file name and the inode number. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 08:06:10 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:04:01 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611220804.AA08459@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Alice, who the .... is alice? (Sort of) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 939 Lines: 20 > Join in on any of the on-line chats and debates and the strange names people > use is very inventive. The on-line chats does indeed use nicks - to help the flow of information. > Childish? Yes, a little. Although I do know one person quite well who uses a > very strange name because he could not afford for his boss finding out that > he gives help and advice to people over the net for free, when his boss wants > to charge 55ukp an hour for his time. > > From my own point of view, if Samsboss wants to use that name, wants to be a > little 'round the bend' the let him (or her). There is no harm, even though a > few people seem to be a bit prickley about it. The Internet was designed to be open. The idea of faking an idenity is in fact not welcomed in most of the Internet community. In fact, all of the ISPs in Norway will not allow fake IDs and will disconnect (after a warning) anbody who are 'caught in the act'. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 08:07:20 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:05:29 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611220805.AA08462@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Alice, who the .... is alice? (Sort o - Reply X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 412 Lines: 9 > Oh come on Dan, that is far from fair and even further from the truth. > If I log on to the Sunday News Debate (AOL 8-9pm) I use my primary account > screen-name 'Format Pub'. In the average debate I doubt that you would see > more than a handful of screen-names that have any relation to the persons > real name - does that make the vast majority of AOL users perverts? Is that a trick question? :) -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 08:11:10 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:08:27 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611220808.AA08465@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Samson text editor (was Re: SAMSON: bundled software) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 420 Lines: 11 > I really like the auto filename fill in on UNIX - for example > if I have a file called 'rubbish' then I just type 'ru' and > press escape and it fills the rest in. I'd love a text > editor that would recognise certain keywords and fill > in the rest when I press esc.... That is not a unix-feature - it's a feature of the shell you are using. ESC is btw a bad key for poor-mans-grep, TAB is more intuitive. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 09:59:34 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:48:15 GMT Message-Id: <199611220948.JAA22365@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAM name From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no (sam users) X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 185 Lines: 10 On Nov 21, 1996 10:48:41, 'Stephen Harding ' wrote: >Bah! Son of Alan Miles sounds much better. -- But then it would be called the Adrian. Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 09:59:34 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:48:26 GMT Message-Id: <199611220948.JAA22375@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: [None] From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 444 Lines: 18 On Nov 21, 1996 12:17:07, 'Justin Skists ' wrote: >On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Andrew M Gale wrote: > >> Probably. The SAM's power supply is shaky enough as it is, >> so chances are that if anyone plugs all this gubbins into >> their SAM then they'll need a heftier PSU. How about adding >> a new PSU to the list, Bob? > >And a decent TV modulator... > >-- Why not just stick to scart? Much easier. -- Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 09:59:34 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:48:43 GMT Message-Id: <199611220948.JAA22403@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: How long a filename? From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 248 Lines: 11 On Nov 21, 1996 12:28:06, 'BrenchleyR@aol.com' wrote: >Talking of which, how about longer filenames? What do you think? 20 >characters, 32, 128, 256? > >Bob. -- Go for summit midway, say 64. That should be enough for anyone. Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 09:59:35 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:48:13 GMT Message-Id: <199611220948.JAA22361@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: We'll get you yet! :) NOT :-( From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 269 Lines: 14 On Nov 21, 1996 09:58:42, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: >At 08:44 PM 11/20/96 GMT, you wrote: > >You're a real smart Alec, aren't you SAMSBOSS... > >Your initials aren't AC, are they Alec? > >Simon -- 5th 5th gimme the 5th... Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 09:59:35 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:49:56 GMT Message-Id: <199611220949.JAA22453@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 399 Lines: 18 On Nov 21, 1996 13:40:58, 'Johnna Teare ' wrote: >> > No, SAM stood for Some Amazing Machine. >> >> I thought it was Some Amazing Micro > >Either way, it was the crappest name for a computer I've ever heard. >> >> Captain Pedantic > >Johnna Pig Teare -- SAM is not a bad name, its friendly and human. Better than ST or C64 or how about IBM PC? Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 09:59:38 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:50:04 GMT Message-Id: <199611220950.JAA22461@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAM speech... From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 743 Lines: 21 On Nov 21, 1996 14:48:48, '"Dave Hooper" <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK>' wrote: >> Oh yes, one last thing. Is there a plan to produce a speach synth for SAM? >> I did have one of the Blue Alpha ones but that was not very good so I sold >> it at one of the early Gloucester shows. >Would be a piece of cake in software on SAMSON. >Probably on the SAM too. Yeh. >I'd get right on it if I had the sample know-how. >I could do it easily enough, but not efficiently. If someone does the >sample playback bitty, I'd do the rest... probably... I'll see what I >can do. -- Gotta be phonim based. The BAE one used a chip which I heard went out of production. Must be summit new around. Anyone read the electronic mags? Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 09:59:46 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:50:32 GMT Message-Id: <199611220950.JAA22470@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAMSON: bundled software From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 375 Lines: 15 On Nov 21, 1996 15:13:07, '"Dave Hooper" <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK>' wrote: >If we bundle a wordprocessor (<< WHICH I THINK WE'LL /HAVE/ TO DO!) >how /good/ would it be? Good enough to be usable, but not so good that it stops someone doing another one. Example Tasword 2 was bundled with the Microdrives, but TW3 sold in large numbers. [lots cut] Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 09:59:51 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:49:51 GMT Message-Id: <199611220949.JAA22436@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 525 Lines: 16 On Nov 21, 1996 12:54:12, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: >I've had disks corrupted by the controller chip when I've put them back in >/after/ a reset... Which is why I bought a DPU. > >Simon -- I was always tought to switch off and count to eight - slow like - before switchy on again. Never lost a disc yet. Ooo tell a lie, left a disc in one day when the mains went down, but that is different, that there be an act of god (or the NEB of course). Could we have a cheap UPS sometime? Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 09:59:51 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:51:44 GMT Message-Id: <199611220951.JAA22474@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: How long a filename? From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 321 Lines: 12 On Nov 22, 1996 08:56:21, 'ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe)' wrote: >Just to be on the safe side, make it variable up to 256 characters. >The directory information coould then be the length of the entry, >the file name and the inode number. > >-Frode -- What is an inode, a fashionable poem? Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:00:08 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:49:46 GMT Message-Id: <199611220949.JAA22420@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 238 Lines: 11 On Nov 21, 1996 12:34:47, 'Lee Willis ' wrote: >Disk protectors are for when you forget .... > >Lee. -- Don't forget. Samsboss. (Can't think of any funny lines tonight. Must be time for bed, Boing!) From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:00:16 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:49:54 GMT Message-Id: <199611220949.JAA22449@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: FormatPub@aol.com Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Pipeuser: samsboss X-Pipehub: uk.pipeline.com X-Pipegcos: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1040 Lines: 36 On Nov 21, 1996 12:28:14, 'BrenchleyR@aol.com' wrote: >Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no by uk.pipeline.com >(8.6.12/SMI-4.1.3-PIPELINE-pop-local) > id RAA04516; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:54:56 GMT >Received: by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no id <46982-817>; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:54:35 >+0000 >Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com ([198.81.11.96]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no >with SMTP id <46987-820>; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:28:40 +0000 >Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA12237 for >sam-users@nvg.unit.no; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:14 -0500 >Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:28:14 -0500 >From: BrenchleyR@aol.com >Message-ID: <961121122813_1452582309@emout05.mail.aol.com> >To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no >Subject: Re: SOS my right ARM >Sender: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > >In a message dated 21/11/96 11:50:59, you write: > >>Am I wrong? >>Numb. > >I hope you are, otherwise the flash/sram alone will break the bank for most >users. > >Bob. -- Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:14:52 1996 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:56:33 +0000 From: Mr Mystery To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Alice, who the .... is alice? (Sort o - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 826 Lines: 21 > >Anonymous users are normally associated with pervert posters to > >alt.sex.small.kiddies. > > Oh come on Dan, that is far from fair and even further from the truth. > If I log on to the Sunday News Debate (AOL 8-9pm) I use my primary account > screen-name 'Format Pub'. In the average debate I doubt that you would see more > than a handful of screen-names that have any relation to the persons real name - > does that make the vast majority of AOL users perverts? No, and your AOL name/screen name is not an Anonymous user ID. Anonymous Uids (as Ian has pointed out already) are ones which it is not (easily) possible to trace the originators e.g. an??????@anon.penet.fi. I have no problem with 'Screen Names' (I can change mine with ease) it's the people who won't take responsibility for them that annoy me. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:14:52 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:57:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Samson text editor (was Re: SAMSON: bundled software) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 973 Lines: 23 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Tim Paveley wrote: ;> ;>Mate of mine (Manga of SSP;) swears by an arc text editor called !Zap, ;>and looking at it I can see why. For a start it is a blindingly fast text ;>editor. Add to that programmers can add there own 'modules' (or ;>something) to it, so that it can have lots of different modes (ie, normal ;>text, a C mode, a Basic mode, and more, where ie the programming modes ;>will highlight reserved words/numbers/strings different colours, tab ;>works nice and sensibly for indentation, and ie in basic mode ;>automatically sorts out line numbers, by inserting new ones when you add ;>a line in the middle and renumbering if necessary. There are modes like this for a lot of the Unix text editors, but emacs seems to be the most useful. Anyway for porting it to SAM(SON) ? Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:14:52 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 04:57:43 -0500 From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-Id: <961122045742_1917127212@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAMSON ideas Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 134 Lines: 9 In a message dated 21/11/96 17:40:28, you write: >Bugger that... it keeps losing data. > > Problems with your battery Simon? Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:14:52 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:01:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Samson text editor (was Re: SAMSON: bundled software) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 963 Lines: 26 On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, Andrew M Gale wrote: ;> ;>I really like the auto filename fill in on UNIX - for example ;>if I have a file called 'rubbish' then I just type 'ru' and ;>press escape and it fills the rest in. I'd love a text ;>editor that would recognise certain keywords and fill ;>in the rest when I press esc.... ;> Do I see a tsunami of support for a Unix style environment ??? While we're on the subject though we have to be careful of what we implement if we go this way. The stuff that Andrew's just describes is shell dependant, for example I presume he's usin a C Shell, but a tcshell behaves differently again as do bash etc. etc. We'd have to decide on one standard unless the machine was designed to accept different shells. I haven't got a clue how this would be implemented though ... :( Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:14:53 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961122100142.008c9a04@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:01:42 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: How long a filename? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 391 Lines: 17 At 12:28 PM 11/21/96 -0500, you wrote: >Status: > >In a message dated 20/11/96 09:07:07, you write: > >>Please! No file-numbers. >> >> -Frode > >Talking of which, how about longer filenames? What do you think? 20 >characters, 32, 128, 256? 256, allowing any character between 32 and 255 ASCII... or we could go the whole hog and use Unicode ;) (but that might be a little OTT). Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:14:53 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:08:12 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199611220949.JAA22436@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Nov 22, 96 09:49:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 339 Lines: 10 > I was always tought to switch off and count to eight - slow like - before > switchy on again. > This reminds of the Amiga viruses! Commodore User used to suggest turning the Amiga off for at least one minute before programs. Presumably their argument was so that the DRAMs discharged completely.... but what a load of nonsense. -Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:14:58 1996 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: [None] To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:06:17 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199611220948.JAA22375@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Nov 22, 96 09:48:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 139 Lines: 8 > >And a decent TV modulator... > > > > Why not just stick to scart? Much easier. > -- If my tv had a scart input, then I would.... From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:14:59 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:03:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Lee Willis To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply In-Reply-To: <199611220949.JAA22420@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 417 Lines: 20 On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: ;>On Nov 21, 1996 12:34:47, 'Lee Willis ' wrote: ;> ;>>Disk protectors are for when you forget .... ;>> ;>>Lee. ;>-- ;>Don't forget. ;> Sorry, I forgot you were perfect ... Lee. How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they just make darkness the industry standard! From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:15:34 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961122100504.0097d530@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:05:04 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 702 Lines: 24 At 09:49 AM 11/22/96 GMT, you wrote: > >>I've had disks corrupted by the controller chip when I've put them back in > >>/after/ a reset... Which is why I bought a DPU. >> >>Simon >-- >I was always tought to switch off and count to eight - slow like - before >switchy on again. >Never lost a disc yet. Ooo tell a lie, left a disc in one day when the It didn't work on my machine... I still got a hung drive controller with a lovely little orange light just sat there looking at me. The DPU is such a simple circuit, it's hard to believe that it can't be put on the main board, for say, the SAM Elite. Bob -- how about talking to Edwin Blink and seeing if he'll let you use the design? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:27:59 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961122102337.00912188@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:23:37 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SAMSON ideas Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 763 Lines: 27 At 04:57 AM 11/22/96 -0500, you wrote: >Status: > >In a message dated 21/11/96 17:40:28, you write: > >>Bugger that... it keeps losing data. >> >> > >Problems with your battery Simon? > >Bob. I'm not sure -- I think it's losing the charge too quickly, but we took it to bits and couldn't work out quite why... but when we wired it up to something else (eg another PSU), that didn't fix the problem either. I'm tempted to say that Bruce's circuit doesn't follow the specified power down/power up constraints which are in the OKI manual for the clock chip... which is why I managed to get hold of a little chip to do a power-good signal for me, and automate the battery changeover. Not bad -- less than 2UKP as well. I've yet to wire it in though :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:27:59 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961122102339.0091d7bc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:23:39 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SNA-RUNner: IFF2 - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 835 Lines: 20 At 10:08 AM 11/22/96 +0000, you wrote: >This reminds of the Amiga viruses! Commodore User used to suggest >turning the Amiga off for at least one minute before programs. >Presumably their argument was so that the DRAMs discharged >completely.... but what a load of nonsense. >-Andy Well, you can get nastier power spikes if you indiscriminately power-cycle the machine. I've corrupted a lot of Pentium's CMOS's in this way ;) Saves wear and tear on the machine, if nothing else. Some machines store a reset vector in memory as well, (ie an address to jump to on warm-boot), and this time gives the machine a chance to "forget" the reset vector. Basically, it's better for the whole machine if you wait for the capacitors in the PSU to discharge a bit before switching back on. Not that I follow that rule, except on PC's :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:35:41 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:30:10 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611221030.AA09077@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: How long a filename? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 403 Lines: 14 > >Just to be on the safe side, make it variable up to 256 characters. > >The directory information coould then be the length of the entry, > >the file name and the inode number. > > > >-Frode > -- > What is an inode, a fashionable poem? An inode (or index-node) contains the characteristcs of the file including pointers to (pointers to (pointers to)) the blocs making up the file. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:35:41 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:31:45 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611221031.AA09081@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: How long a filename? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 296 Lines: 9 > >Talking of which, how about longer filenames? What do you think? 20 > >characters, 32, 128, 256? > > 256, allowing any character between 32 and 255 ASCII... or we could go the > whole hog and use Unicode ;) (but that might be a little OTT). *BZZZZT* ASCII 255 does not excists. :) -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:42:10 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961122103854.0097eec4@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:38:54 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: How long a filename? Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 433 Lines: 19 At 11:31 AM 11/22/96 +0100, you wrote: >Status: > >> >Talking of which, how about longer filenames? What do you think? 20 >> >characters, 32, 128, 256? >> >> 256, allowing any character between 32 and 255 ASCII... or we could go the >> whole hog and use Unicode ;) (but that might be a little OTT). > >*BZZZZT* ASCII 255 does not excists. :) > > -Frode *grins* Well, okay... :) You know what I mean though, don't you? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 10:58:03 1996 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:52:40 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9611221052.AA09095@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: How long a filename? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 633 Lines: 19 > >> >Talking of which, how about longer filenames? What do you think? 20 > >> >characters, 32, 128, 256? > >> > >> 256, allowing any character between 32 and 255 ASCII... or we could go the > >> whole hog and use Unicode ;) (but that might be a little OTT). > > > >*BZZZZT* ASCII 255 does not excists. :) > > > > -Frode > > *grins* Well, okay... :) > > You know what I mean though, don't you? Yes, but is it a good idea, though? Whatever >127 is not only non-printable (well, potentially), but is likely to change from one platform to another (eg. when filetransferring). No, ASCII for files, and ISO-8859-x for text. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Nov 22 11:33:08 1996 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961122110951.0097e27c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:09:51 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SOS: Sensible FAT - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3829 Lines: 83 At 12:28 PM 11/21/96 -0500, you wrote: >Status: > >In a message dated 21/11/96 10:00:46, you write: > >>Have I ever mentioned COGNOMEN files in this mailing list? They're an idea >>for an extension to the SAM DOS system I had a while back... >> >>Simon > >Not that I remember, tell us more. Right... the idea is that a COGNOMEN file is one which holds filenames and SAM filenames. What's the difference, you may ask... well, say you're converting a PC file to the SAM, which is 14 characters long (including the separator). As SAM filenames are a maximum of 10 characters long, some truncation will have to be done, which may lose the meaning of the filename altogether. What I'm proposing is that new DOS's will create a COGNOMEN file in the SAMDOS directory for the purpose of keeping hold of the longer-filename information. WHen files are copied across, or saved with longer filenames than the underlying directory structure can handle, the file is given a unique name which keeps as much of the original filename as possible (for people who can't use COGNOMEN files). New DOS's will read the directory, and check through the COGNOMEN file (if present). If it finds a file with a truncated name, it will display and/or use the /longer/ version. This could give long filename support to the SAM, and solve a lot of compatibility problems. Suggested filestructure: Struct data length (bytes) comment ::HEADER STRUCTURE:: HEADER: "COGNOMEN" [8] identifier string VERSION: byte [1] version no' for future compatiblity. FILES: word [2] No' of files referenced by this COGNOMEN file FREESPACE: word [2] Length of largest contiguous block of free space in this file (formed when files are erased... 0 indicates file must be extended if new files are added) ::FILENAME STRUCTURE - FILE IS PRESENT:: FS: byte [1] indicates which filesystem the file came from originally -- e.g. 1 = SAMDOS, 2 = SAMDOS, with Long File Name Support, 3 = MSDOS, 4 = PRODOS, 5 = ... Must not equal Zero (see below) SKIP: word [2] Distance to next filename from FS point... HOSTLEN: byte [1] Host file-system name length HOSTNAME: string [n] Host name (HOSTLEN bytes long) ORIGLEN: byte [1] Original filename length ORIGNAME: string [n] Original filename (ORIGLEN bytes long) ATTRIBLEN: byte [1] Length of attribute data for file ATTRIBDATA: byte(s) [n] Attribute data. Filesystem specific interpretation. ::FILENAME STRUCTURE - FILE HAS BEEN ERASED:: FS: byte [1] Equals ZERO to indicate erased file. SKIP: word [2] Offset to next file (also indicates amount of space free for another filename to be stored at this place). Simon From imc Fri Nov 22 11:57:22 1996 Subject: Re: SAMSON: bundled software To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:57:22 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199611220950.JAA22470@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Nov 22, 96 09:50:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 220 Lines: 7 On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:50:32 GMT, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com said: > Example Tasword 2 was bundled with the Microdrives, but TW3 sold in large > numbers. What has a 60s satire programme got to do with this?... :-) imc