From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 16:51:47 1997 Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:43:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <9702241414.AA06823@asmal.edh-net> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Feb 24, 97 03:14:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <19970224164537Z49166-12132+1573@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 518 Lines: 15 > > > I dunno -- didn't go :) Was in bed, jetlagged, and sleeping after returning > > from the land of the Swiss on Friday night. > > You don't get jetlagged by crossing _one_ timezone..... ;) > You do -- if the night before you return you're up until 4:30am drinking Calvados with about 7 other programmers from various companies around Europe (and drinkning the contents of the hotel minibar of one lecturer [v.drunk] from UCL) BTW: Frode... where *IS* CERN? I was hoping to spot it from the plane... SImon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 16:51:47 1997 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:48:05 +0000 Subject: Re: The Next Step. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1162 Lines: 23 > I'm trying to convert an average 70K (max = 192K at the moment) of data to > something I can work with at the current SAM speed. The trouble is, I > would like it to do it in less that 10 seconds. Is it possible? Current > timing is around 80-90 seconds for the 70K file.. But I know how I can > make it a lot faster. For a start, I'm doing the same calculation do get > a floating point number over and over again.. And my routines to read and > write bytes from different pages are, basically, crap. I should use some > sort of buffering. > But optimisation is not always enough... :( Yes: Do the calculation once to get the floating point number... (is it /really/ the same calculation over and over? sounds a bit pointless). What is it your converting? I'm sure the generous folk here (certainly at least me) could have a look at the algorithm and tweak away... I remember when I had a screen printing problem Simon unleashed his butterfly and the world was saved. Er, or something. --- dave --- If you can read this message your browser does not support frames, video, sound, mime, color, text or any of that irratating acidic jelly. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 16:51:47 1997 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:49:01 +0000 Subject: Re: FW: the next step X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 506 Lines: 11 > You do realise that if people are going to do this kind of thing (ie leave > the system running from SRAM programs) for any length of time, we're going > to have to have a few blocks of Reed-Solomon ECC near the end of the memory > to correct all of the bit errors which will creep in as time goes on... Eh? Probably wouldn't concern me anyway. --- dave --- If you can read this message your browser does not support frames, video, sound, mime, color, text or any of that irratating acidic jelly. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 16:51:47 1997 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:50:54 +0000 Subject: Re: Oh yeh - one other thing X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 833 Lines: 16 > 2 Months gamestesting sounds great on the surface. But how would > you really like to play THE SAME GAME 8 HOURS A DAY FOR 2 MONTHS??! > Add to this, it's an UNTESTED VERSION (That's your job) and so FULL > OF BUGS. And you've got to document EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE BUGS. > > Now you're seeing that after the first hour, it's hell. Erm, no, it still sounds almost ok. Plus the pay doesn't seem that bad, really. Considering the only steady job I've had so far was working in a restaurant for 2.75 an hour. Plus, it's no different, really, to doing the whole debugging thing when your writing your own games... well, ok, it is different, but not much. I think. --- dave --- If you can read this message your browser does not support frames, video, sound, mime, color, text or any of that irratating acidic jelly. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 16:51:48 1997 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:52:20 +0000 Subject: A suggestion, and a good one at that X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 386 Lines: 7 I've had a thought. Since I appear to be unable to unsub from this list, why not start all messages slagging off samsboss, or whatever, with the subject line of DULL: That way I can filter them out and delete them automatically! --- dave --- If you can read this message your browser does not support frames, video, sound, mime, color, text or any of that irratating acidic jelly. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 16:59:10 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:51:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@kestrel.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Oh yeh - one other thing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 956 Lines: 20 On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, James R Curry wrote: > 2 Months gamestesting sounds great on the surface. But how would > you really like to play THE SAME GAME 8 HOURS A DAY FOR 2 MONTHS??! > Add to this, it's an UNTESTED VERSION (That's your job) and so FULL > OF BUGS. And you've got to document EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE BUGS. > > Now you're seeing that after the first hour, it's hell. Oh.. I had to do that for free.. Or did anyone else get the first release of First Encounters (Elite3) for the PC? That WASN'T game tested at all before it was released.. -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 16:59:12 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis set sender to Relaxed using -f To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: FW: The Show References: <19970224153423Z49224-12132+1569@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: unknown Date: 24 Feb 1997 16:50:17 +0000 In-Reply-To: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life"'s message of Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:33:33 EST Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1056 Lines: 33 "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" writes: > > From: unknown > Date: 24 Feb 1997 14:29:34 +0000 > > >"YOUNG Neville, IT Life" writes: > > >> Andrew Gale wrote .. > >> > > >> So then.... the show - what did I miss? > >> > > >Well. There was this drop dead gorgeous blonde female on the door. > > >Not much else besides. > >> > > >Was that the same one that's been there the last couple of times that > Last couple of times? That was show two. Or are your thinking of Christina > at the Gloucester show? Oops, yep I was thinking of Gloucester, as for whether it was Christina or not I'm afraid I don't remember her name, but she was short-ish, blonde and had lovely _eyes_ .... > Can't blame you if you are Cold shower anyone ...? -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 17:04:48 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:06:07 GMT Subject: Re: Oh yeh - one other thing X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <4664566725@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 705 Lines: 15 > On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, James R Curry wrote: > > > 2 Months gamestesting sounds great on the surface. But how would > > you really like to play THE SAME GAME 8 HOURS A DAY FOR 2 MONTHS??! > > Add to this, it's an UNTESTED VERSION (That's your job) and so FULL > > OF BUGS. And you've got to document EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE BUGS. > > > > Now you're seeing that after the first hour, it's hell. > > Oh.. I had to do that for free.. Or did anyone else get the first release > of First Encounters (Elite3) for the PC? That WASN'T game tested at all > before it was released.. Even the second release (which they claimed and as advertised as bug-free) was full of the things! Oops, off topic... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 17:14:07 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:08:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@kestrel.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: The Next Step. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1762 Lines: 40 On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Dave Hooper wrote: > Yes: Do the calculation once to get the floating point number... (is > it /really/ the same calculation over and over? sounds a bit > pointless). It was to get a certain number in the FP-calculator 5byte number version. I couldn't be bothered to find out the actual answer at the time so I included the calculation every time. Someone else said on here that us generation of programmers are lazy.. :) > What is it your converting? It's to convert a standard midi file into something that can pump the bytes out as fast as possible with a *minumum* amount of calculation. To convert all the timings to match the nice frame counter (it may seem an ugly idea timing-wise, but it actually works quite nicely). And get rid of the non-needed stuff like track names. And converting the weird numbering format for data lengths to normal 32bit values (which is the only bit that is really optimised - and I'm proud of it! :) > I'm sure the generous folk here > (certainly at least me) could have a look at the algorithm and tweak > away... I'm you you would. But if you guys see the state of the code at the moment, you'd laugh so much and you'll never take me seriously again.. :) > I remember when I had a screen printing problem Simon > unleashed his butterfly and the world was saved. Er, or something. :) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 17:19:23 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:13:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@kestrel.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: FW: The Show In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 895 Lines: 21 On 24 Feb 1997, unknown wrote: > Oops, yep I was thinking of Gloucester, as for whether it was > Christina or not I'm afraid I don't remember her name, but she was > short-ish, blonde and had lovely _eyes_ .... > > > Can't blame you if you are > > Cold shower anyone ...? That's it.. i'm DEFINITELY going to the Gloucester show! :) Ermm.. i think.. Or is that the weekend my cousine is getting married? In that case, I'll go to the one next year! (If the SAM Scene is still around then) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 20:00:48 1997 Message-ID: <3311EAC6.1CB0@ndirect.co.uk> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 19:23:50 +0000 From: Neville Young X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: FW: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. References: <1.5.4.32.19970224101352.0092eff4@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 380 Lines: 19 Simon Cooke wrote: > > At 08:15 20/02/97 EST, you wrote: > Contract break-down: > Thanks for the interpretation of the contract Simon. You know where I am when _you_ need to fill out an IT1. > *grins* But if he's still going to insult people, I support, to the death, > other people's right to ignore him :) exactly. > He can still say it though... sadly :) Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 20:00:48 1997 Message-ID: <3311EB93.2015@ndirect.co.uk> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 19:27:15 +0000 From: Neville Young X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Moving House! References: <1.5.4.32.19970224102343.00959194@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 120 Lines: 13 Simon Cooke wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've moved: my new address is: > Letter bombs ready for dispatch. Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 20:00:48 1997 Message-ID: <3311F0FA.3187@ndirect.co.uk> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 19:50:18 +0000 From: Neville Young X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: FW: The Show References: <19970224153423Z49224-12132+1569@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 562 Lines: 21 unknown wrote: > > "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" writes: > > > > >Was that the same one that's been there the last couple of times that > > Last couple of times? That was show two. Or are your thinking of Christina > > at the Gloucester show? > > Oops, yep I was thinking of Gloucester, as for whether it was > Christina or not I'm afraid I don't remember her name, but she was > short-ish, blonde and had lovely _eyes_ .... > Yep that's JB[1]. Well ackshurly shes not JB any more. But she's still Jenny's daughter. [1] jail bait Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 20:00:48 1997 Message-ID: <3311F192.2276@ndirect.co.uk> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 19:52:50 +0000 From: Neville Young X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: The Next Step. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 166 Lines: 8 Justin Skists wrote: > > It was to get a certain number in the FP-calculator 5byte number version. Oops need glasses. Read that as Shite number. Drunk but happy. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 20:00:49 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 19:53:16 GMT Message-Id: <199702241953.TAA11897@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com () Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: () X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 490 Lines: 20 On Feb 21, 1997 14:56:36, 'Ian Collier ' wrote: >On Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:20:08 GMT, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com said: >> I would also point out that my employers employer may well be reading this >> - they read everything else the crosses the net so why not this. > >Everything that crosses the net?! Is he superman? > >imc Oh sorry, were you not aware that ALL net traffic in monitored, and not just by the good guys either. - - Samsboss. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 20:17:27 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 20:15:16 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@kestrel.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: The Next Step. In-Reply-To: <3311F192.2276@ndirect.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 709 Lines: 21 On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Neville Young wrote: > Justin Skists wrote: > > > > It was to get a certain number in the FP-calculator 5byte number version. > > Oops need glasses. Read that as Shite number. Well.. I considered it that! ;) > Drunk but happy. I need a beer! This final year project is getting to me! :( -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 20:19:01 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 20:16:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@kestrel.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. In-Reply-To: <199702241953.TAA11897@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 689 Lines: 15 On Mon, 24 Feb 1997 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > Oh sorry, were you not aware that ALL net traffic in monitored, and not > just by the good guys either. I didn't know there was good guys monitoring net traffic.. Anyone who reads my stuff without my specific permission are bad guys... -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 21:55:21 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:02:16 GMT Message-Id: <199702242102.VAA13936@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: FW: A Question Of Stability From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no, sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 542 Lines: 25 On Feb 24, 1997 07:00:15, '"YOUNG Neville, IT Life" ' wrote: >Date: 1997-02-24 11:47 >Priority: > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >From: Simon Cooke >Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability > > >>>There were complaints about HDOS. > >>Nev's slowly fixing these, so the jury's still out. > >(very) slowly. > Very slowly because people keep delaying the SRAM card. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 21:55:22 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:03:53 GMT Message-Id: <199702242103.VAA13997@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 321 Lines: 16 On Feb 24, 1997 09:05:00, 'Justin Skists ' wrote: >On Sun, 23 Feb 1997 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >> Samsboss. >> (Not the Bob, Not the Nev, Not the JW, Not the Colin) > >I sure do hope you're not me either... :) > >-- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com Not Justin Skists (I think)... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 21:55:23 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:06:32 GMT Message-Id: <199702242106.VAA14098@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Technical Manual From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 971 Lines: 30 On Feb 24, 1997 09:47:02, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: >At 23:08 18/02/97 GMT, you wrote: >>>Does anybody know of a source of the Sam Technical Manual? Or perhaps >>could >>>someone lend me their copy for a few days so I can copy it? >[cut] >> >>Stacey, correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression yor are not >>reading Format. Everything you need it in there. > >Now that's the biggest pile of bollocks I've ever read from you. > >If someone wants a technical manual, they want a technical manual. They do >not want a magazine which may not cover (or may alread have covered many >moons ago) the information they need. > >Simon > And that's the biggest pile of bollocks I've ever read from you. If Stacey read FORMAT, the he would have seen the advert for the Tech Manual and other bits that he has been looking for recently, I was just pointing the nice man in the right direction. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 21:55:23 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:08:15 GMT Message-Id: <199702242108.VAA14172@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 470 Lines: 17 On Feb 24, 1997 10:13:51, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: >At 20:55 19/02/97 GMT, you wrote: >>Like I've said, I can't. If this was a mailing list to do with knitting >>(anyone know of one?) then it would be different. But its to do with >>computers, so I can't. > >Ok. Why not? > >Simon -- Because, as I've said, I get paid for giving advice to people. So I can't do it for free, at least not in my own name. Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 21:55:24 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:09:41 GMT Message-Id: <199702242109.VAA14224@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 281 Lines: 18 On Feb 24, 1997 10:23:44, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: >At 20:14 23/02/97 GMT, you wrote: >>Samsboss. >>(Not the Bob, Not the Nev, Not the JW, Not the Colin) > >*chortles* > >How about the IS? > >Simon > Is Meeee -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 21:55:25 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:16:01 GMT Message-Id: <199702242116.VAA14478@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 753 Lines: 23 On Feb 24, 1997 12:14:31, 'Ian Collier ' wrote: >On Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:14:04 GMT, samsboss@uk.pipeline.com said: >> On Feb 23, 1997 13:58:00, 'Ian Collier ' >> wrote: >> >No, sorry, I don't believe you. Name three. > >> If you mean use a screen name that has no relation to the real name, then >> how about at least 30% of AOL users and 100% of Compuserve users. > >Err, no. I'm talking about people who remain anonymous. That is, they >use a screen name that has no relation to the real name *and* they don't >put their real name anywhere in any message. > >imc -- I refer the gentleman to the reply I gave earlier and to which I stick. Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 21:55:25 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:17:12 GMT Message-Id: <199702242117.VAA14592@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 327 Lines: 15 On Feb 24, 1997 12:20:52, 'Ian Collier ' wrote: >I repeat my question: if your employer forbids you to be on this list then >how can you defend the fact that you are indeed on it, whether anonymously >or not? > >imc -- Oh, I don't, I'me a very bad boy.... :) Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 21:55:26 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:19:43 GMT Message-Id: <199702242119.VAA14672@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Technical Manual From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 625 Lines: 26 On Feb 24, 1997 13:09:23, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: >At 12:12 24/02/97 +0000, you wrote: >>Status: >> >> >>> If someone wants a technical manual, they want a technical manual. They do >>> not want a magazine which may not cover (or may alread have covered many >>> moons ago) the information they need. >> >>Much as I hate to defend him, you've misunderstood - he was referring to the >>fact that Format /sell/ the Technical manual... > >Oh bum. You're right there. Sorry SB. > >Simon >] And sorry I posted the other email before I read this one. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 21:55:27 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:21:02 GMT Message-Id: <199702242121.VAA14728@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: FW: The Show From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 402 Lines: 18 On Feb 24, 1997 13:53:09, 'Justin Skists ' wrote: >On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, YOUNG Neville, IT Life wrote: > >> > So then.... the show - what did I miss? >> >> Well. There was this drop dead gorgeous blonde female on the door. > >Drats! > And from what I hear she was making eyes at Bob. Still she can get treatment for that on the NHS :) -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Feb 24 23:53:28 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:55:39 GMT Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <4D37645DFB@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 444 Lines: 13 > >Err, no. I'm talking about people who remain anonymous. That is, they > >use a screen name that has no relation to the real name *and* they don't > >put their real name anywhere in any message. > > > >imc > -- > > I refer the gentleman to the reply I gave earlier and to which I stick. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com How many time has Bob used this sentence? Hmm...(again) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 07:31:51 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:30:12 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9702250730.AA07227@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 724 Lines: 23 > > You don't get jetlagged by crossing _one_ timezone..... ;) > > > > You do -- if the night before you return you're up until 4:30am drinking > Calvados with about 7 other programmers from various companies around > Europe (and drinkning the contents of the hotel minibar of one > lecturer [v.drunk] from UCL) That's called "hangover", "blue monday", etc. ;) > > BTW: Frode... where *IS* CERN? I was hoping to spot it from the plane... It's 10 mins. drive from Geneva. Right on the Frech border to the west/ northwest. Actually, it's two sites. It should no be too difficult too see it from the air, but I seem to remember that one of the flightpaths go round Geneva and in from the east. > > SImon > -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 09:19:14 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:09:52 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: FW: FW: A Question Of Stability Message-Id: <19970225091004Z49170-12132+1684@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 787 Lines: 34 Date: 1997-02-25 09:06 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: FW: A Question Of Stability From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no, sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >On Feb 24, 1997 07:00:15, '"YOUNG Neville, IT Life" ' >wrote: >>To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >>From: Simon Cooke >>Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability >> >>>>There were complaints about HDOS. >> >>>Nev's slowly fixing these, so the jury's still out. >> >>(very) slowly. >> > >Very slowly because people keep delaying the SRAM card. Very slowly cos I _had_ to get a job to pay the bills and subsidise SD Software. Nev. Poor, drunk & happy. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 09:19:14 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:11:17 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: FW: FW: The Show Message-Id: <19970225091130Z49170-12132+1685@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 658 Lines: 25 Date: 1997-02-25 09:09 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >On Feb 24, 1997 13:53:09, 'Justin Skists ' wrote: > >>On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, YOUNG Neville, IT Life wrote: >> >>> > So then.... the show - what did I miss? >>> >>> Well. There was this drop dead gorgeous blonde female on the door. >> >>Drats] >> > >And from what I hear she was making eyes at Bob. Still she can get >treatment for that on the NHS :) When she's made eyes for Bob do you think she'll make some for me? Blind drunk & happy. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 09:19:14 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:12:41 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: FW: ROLO BOARD UPDATES Message-Id: <19970225091252Z49191-12132+1686@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 229 Lines: 13 Date: 1997-02-25 09:11 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To: NYOUNG1 >Date: 25 February 1997 02:58 >VACANCIES:- > 25/02/97 Software Engineer (x4) Any body wanna job ? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 10:13:00 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:04:45 GMT Message-Id: <199702251004.KAA18098@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 488 Lines: 17 On Feb 24, 1997 20:16:26, 'Justin Skists ' wrote: >On Mon, 24 Feb 1997 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >> Oh sorry, were you not aware that ALL net traffic in monitored, and not >> just by the good guys either. > >I didn't know there was good guys monitoring net traffic.. Anyone who >reads my stuff without my specific permission are bad guys... > >-- Sorry, but they don't need permission, they own the whole thing. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 10:19:52 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:10:17 GMT Message-Id: <199702251010.KAA20886@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Oh yeh - one other thing From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1022 Lines: 26 On Feb 24, 1997 16:51:35, 'Justin Skists ' wrote: >On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, James R Curry wrote: > >> 2 Months gamestesting sounds great on the surface. But how would >> you really like to play THE SAME GAME 8 HOURS A DAY FOR 2 MONTHS??! >> Add to this, it's an UNTESTED VERSION (That's your job) and so FULL >> OF BUGS. And you've got to document EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE BUGS. >> >> Now you're seeing that after the first hour, it's hell. > >Oh.. I had to do that for free.. Or did anyone else get the first release >of First Encounters (Elite3) for the PC? That WASN'T game tested at all >before it was released.. > However much you test something, however well thought out your test routines, there will always still be a bug for someone to come along, sit at the screen for 30 secs, and say "but this bits wrong!" Just as happened to me on Saturday. As they say, if the program is big enought to be worth doing, then there will always be bugs. Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 10:34:46 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:29:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@goshawk.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. In-Reply-To: <199702242103.VAA13997@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 534 Lines: 13 On Mon, 24 Feb 1997 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > Not Justin Skists (I think)... *Phew* i was getting worried for a while there.. :) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 11:14:42 1997 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: sam mouse To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:58:51 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199702251010.KAA20886@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Feb 25, 97 10:10:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 552 Lines: 20 Right, to read the mouse you have to read the keyboard port 8 times in quick succession, I believe. Of these 8 reads, the first is the normal cursor key scan, and the other 7 hold data about the mouse movements. Looking at the circuit diagrams, it would seem to me that if you are holding down any cursor keys whilst the mouse data is being read then that data would be corrupted - since the mouse data can pull the lines low, but cannot force them high (and the pressed curcor keys would be pulling the bits low). Is this correct? Thanks, Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 11:14:42 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <11395.199702251105@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:05:43 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9702241617.AA19512@client28.comlab.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian Collier" at Feb 24, 97 04:17:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 865 Lines: 19 > > My mistake - didn't you ask for anonymous people? > Look, I would like to know what they are known for, where they post, > etc. I could make up anonymous names like that if I wanted to, but I'd Sure, call me a liar. Go to alt.comp.virus, for starters. You don't see much of PhreeX anymore, but I assure you he did post. Unknown3 is currently being a pain, unknown seems to have disappeared for the moment. You do get quite a lot in there - Falcon is another I just remembered. > If, as Bob claimed, there are many, many people who use the net anonymously > then I might expect to see more than one of them in my small collection of > newsgroups, surely? I don't know about "many, many" - but there a significant proportion in the newsgroups. As you only have a "small collection" of newsgroups though, I can only assume you're looking in the wrong places. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 11:14:42 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <11559.199702251107@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:06:58 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199702251004.KAA18098@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Feb 25, 97 10:04:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 132 Lines: 6 > Sorry, but they don't need permission, they own the whole thing. You're confused, or paranoid. Nobody owns the internet. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 11:14:43 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <11677.199702251107@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: FW: ROLO BOARD UPDATES To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:07:27 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <19970225091252Z49191-12132+1686@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> from "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" at Feb 25, 97 04:12:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 131 Lines: 6 > > 25/02/97 Software Engineer (x4) > Any body wanna job ? Yes, but I doubt they're willing to wait until I finish here... Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 11:14:44 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <12227.199702251111@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:11:23 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199702242108.VAA14172@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Feb 24, 97 09:08:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 176 Lines: 9 > > Because, as I've said, I get paid for giving advice to people. So I can't > do it for free, at least not in my own name. Yes, but this isn't advice. Ah, sod it. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 11:22:32 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <12438.199702251114@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:13:09 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199702241953.TAA11897@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> from "samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Feb 24, 97 07:53:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 279 Lines: 9 > Oh sorry, were you not aware that ALL net traffic in monitored, and not > just by the good guys either. I'm afraid that I'll have to disbelieve you on that point ... unless you tell us exactly /how/ they monitor traffic when it may not even pass through their system? Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 11:22:51 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <12522.199702251115@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: The Next Step. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:13:46 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <3311F192.2276@ndirect.co.uk> from "Neville Young" at Feb 24, 97 07:52:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 94 Lines: 7 > Drunk but happy. That's the best way... :) No good being drunk without being happy! Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 11:34:43 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 06:29:47 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: FW: Oh yeh - one other thing Message-Id: <19970225113000Z49193-12132+1694@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 581 Lines: 20 Date: 1997-02-25 10:47 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) >However much you test something, however well thought out your test >routines, there will always still be a bug for someone to come along, sit >at the screen for 30 secs, and say "but this bits wrong]" Just as happened >to me on Saturday. >As they say, if the program is big enought to be worth doing, then there >will always be bugs. ................^^^^ You misspelt 'undocumented features' From imc Tue Feb 25 11:48:07 1997 Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:48:07 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <11395.199702251105@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> from "Mr P R Walker" at Feb 25, 97 11:05:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 467 Lines: 16 On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:05:43 +0000 (GMT), Mr P R Walker said: > Sure, call me a liar. > Go to alt.comp.virus, for starters. Look, my original question said: #(People who post to "sensitive" newsgroups don't count as they have a #legitimate reason for being anonymous. Sam-users is not "sensitive".) I have never read alt.comp.virus but by the sounds of it (especially if it is full of anonymous people) it is a "sensitive" newsgroup. So please try again. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 12:00:42 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:54:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@larch.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. In-Reply-To: <9702251148.AA20402@client28.comlab.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 765 Lines: 16 On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Ian Collier wrote: > I have never read alt.comp.virus but by the sounds of it (especially if > it is full of anonymous people) it is a "sensitive" newsgroup. Oh.. it's pretty sensitive. I used to subscribe to it when my news feed wasn't broken (before christmas). Lots of nice source code. It scares me to know how simple viruses are to make... -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 13:21:05 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <29517.199702251311@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 13:11:23 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9702251148.AA20402@client28.comlab.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian Collier" at Feb 25, 97 11:48:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 451 Lines: 12 > I have never read alt.comp.virus but by the sounds of it (especially if > it is full of anonymous people) it is a "sensitive" newsgroup. Waitwaitwait. What definition of sensitive are /you/ using? I was talking about things like child abuse, incest and so on - I don't count viruses as "sensitive"! If you do, then I think we may as well end the thread here, because our outlooks are obviously so different I don't think there's any point. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 13:21:05 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <29627.199702251312@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 13:12:10 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Justin Skists" at Feb 25, 97 11:54:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 284 Lines: 9 > wasn't broken (before christmas). Lots of nice source code. It scares me > to know how simple viruses are to make... Viruses are very simple, and there's been no source code in the time (4 months or so) that I've been reading it. I still don't think it's "sensitive"... :/ Paul From imc Tue Feb 25 13:57:03 1997 Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 13:57:03 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <29517.199702251311@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> from "Mr P R Walker" at Feb 25, 97 01:11:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 723 Lines: 20 On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 13:11:23 +0000 (GMT), Mr P R Walker said: > Waitwaitwait. What definition of sensitive are /you/ using? I was talking > about things like child abuse, incest and so on - I don't count viruses > as "sensitive"! Sensitive = something which large sections of the population consider illegal or immoral, and therefore which may require some people to be anonymous in order to avoid persecution. Or something which is extremely personal and may require some people to be anonymous in order to avoid feeling exposed. viruses = illegal = sensitive. discussing C programming = not sensitive. pornography = sensitive. talking about Sam hardware = not sensitive. recovery from abuse = sensitive. Clear? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 14:18:37 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <7796.199702251413@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:13:13 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9702251357.AA20584@client28.comlab.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian Collier" at Feb 25, 97 01:57:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 380 Lines: 13 > Sensitive = something which large sections of the population consider > illegal or immoral, and therefore which may require some people to be Ah. Maybe "shady" or something would have helped me there... > viruses = illegal = sensitive. > Clear? Clear, although not totally agreed with. Personally I think they do it because they want to feel "kewl", but there you go. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 17:26:15 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis set sender to Relaxed using -f To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. References: <199702242108.VAA14172@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: unknown Date: 25 Feb 1997 14:55:53 +0000 In-Reply-To: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com's message of Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:08:15 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 887 Lines: 25 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) writes: > > On Feb 24, 1997 10:13:51, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: > > >At 20:55 19/02/97 GMT, you wrote: > >>Like I've said, I can't. If this was a mailing list to do with knitting > >>(anyone know of one?) then it would be different. But its to do with > >>computers, so I can't. > > > >Ok. Why not? > > > >Simon > > Because, as I've said, I get paid for giving advice to people. So I can't > do it for free, at least not in my own name. > Do you get paid for giving SAM related advice? If not I don't see how this could possibly be relevant ... -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 17:33:10 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:30:50 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970225123047_1148267184@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Missed you at Wetherby. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 763 Lines: 21 Come on then, where were you all? I took along the Z380 manual to the Wetherby show and not one person came up and asked for a look. Nev took along the SRAM diagrams, again not one person wanted to have one to see how things were going to work. So the question is - where were you all? I was there, weapons ready to take on all commers, and no bugger turned up (well at least nobody that wanted to talk SRAM and the SAMSON). Excuses accepted from those that were in hospital, out of the country (although that was a poor excuse I think) or those that had to work (equaly poor excuse). However, that means that a lot of you will have to hang your heads in shame for not supporting the show. To those of you that did turn up, well done and thank you. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 18:23:14 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:20:56 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. References: <199702232014.UAA26286@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 420 Lines: 16 > > Samsboss. > > (Not the Bob, Not the Nev, Not the JW, Not the Colin) > > I sure do hope you're not me either... :) Oh my god! What if he's me. What if he's my alter-ego or something. -- Samsbo-- Er.. I mean.. James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "If you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now Quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers!" - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 18:23:14 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:29:05 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. In-reply-to: <1.5.4.32.19970224101350.0095cd34@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 695 Lines: 18 it exactly works). My name was > >already in there before I'd even heard of the page. The name is simply > >stripped from the mail name - and since samsboss was using Robert Brenchly as > >mail name it was entered into WhoWhere as such. > > It's actually usenet news that it grabs the email address from, but the > principle's sound. It searches Web Sites as well and grabs email addresses from there. I asked them. (I was wondering why I was on there, since I don't post to Usenet.) -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "If you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now Quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers!" - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 18:23:15 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:45:20 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Oh yeh - one other thing In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 646 Lines: 15 > > 2 Months gamestesting sounds great on the surface. But how would > > you really like to play THE SAME GAME 8 HOURS A DAY FOR 2 MONTHS??! > > Add to this, it's an UNTESTED VERSION (That's your job) and so FULL > > OF BUGS. And you've got to document EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE BUGS. > > > > Now you're seeing that after the first hour, it's hell. Whats the longest you've ever played a game non-stop before you've become bored of it? -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "If you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now Quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers!" - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 20:13:01 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:04:06 GMT Message-Id: <199702252004.UAA21045@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: FW: Oh yeh - one other thing From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 768 Lines: 31 On Feb 25, 1997 06:29:47, '"YOUNG Neville, IT Life" ' wrote: >Date: 1997-02-25 10:47 >Priority: > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) > >>However much you test something, however well thought out your test >>routines, there will always still be a bug for someone to come along, sit >>at the screen for 30 secs, and say "but this bits wrong]" Just as happened >>to me on Saturday. > >>As they say, if the program is big enought to be worth doing, then there >>will always be bugs. >.................^^^^ > >You misspelt 'undocumented features' > > > You got me on that one. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 20:13:02 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:04:03 GMT Message-Id: <199702252004.UAA21026@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 729 Lines: 26 On Feb 24, 1997 23:55:39, '"Gavin Smith" ' wrote: >> >Err, no. I'm talking about people who remain anonymous. That is, they >> >use a screen name that has no relation to the real name *and* they don't >> >put their real name anywhere in any message. >> > >> >imc >> -- >> >> I refer the gentleman to the reply I gave earlier and to which I stick. >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com > >How many time has Bob used this sentence? Hmm...(again) It is a standard House of Commons reply which when I saw it used on these hallowed pages I thought "Good one, must use that, it does just the job" -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 20:13:02 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:04:10 GMT Message-Id: <199702252004.UAA21075@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 661 Lines: 20 On Feb 25, 1997 11:06:58, 'Mr P R Walker ' wrote: > >> Sorry, but they don't need permission, they own the whole thing. > >You're confused, or paranoid. Nobody owns the internet. > >Paul Nobody /owns/ many of the computers that make up the internet. But the net as a whole is very much /owned/ by the major western goverments - in other words is they cried 'STOP' then the net would. All, and I will repeat that, ALL, internet traffic is monitored (mostly by computer systems). There are some very interesting books on the subject published in the USA but few seem to filter over here. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 20:21:19 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <27192.199702252016@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:15:57 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199702252004.UAA21075@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Feb 25, 97 08:04:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 543 Lines: 14 > as a whole is very much /owned/ by the major western goverments - in other > words is they cried 'STOP' then the net would. Very doubtful. It would have to be /all/ of them, acting in complete concert - and even then it would probably still continue, just not openly. > All, and I will repeat that, ALL, internet traffic is monitored (mostly by > computer systems). There are some very interesting books on the subject Again, I remain sceptical on this point also. However, I really can't be bothered to argue - thread closed? :) Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 20:56:36 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:53:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@lagrange.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. In-Reply-To: <970225123047_1148267184@emout06.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 878 Lines: 24 On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > Come on then, where were you all? Sorry.. I have a (very) poor excuse.. > So the question is - where were you all? At home trying to sort out my final year project... > However, that means that a lot of you will have to hang your > heads in shame for not supporting the show. Oh.. I do... So does my SAM who barely got switched on over the weekend... Maybe next year.. (If the SAM can last that long - pessimistic-mode-Justin) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Feb 25 22:44:57 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:37:08 GMT Message-Id: <199702252237.WAA09252@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 671 Lines: 21 On Feb 25, 1997 14:55:53, 'unknown ' wrote: >Do you get paid for giving SAM related advice? If not I don't see how >this could possibly be relevant ... No I get paid for giving advice on computer systems and software and also business management. What I said at an earlier stage was that if one on my customers found out I was here, there would be nothing stopping him from signing up and then getting advice through this list for nought. Now the chances of that are slim, but I am not about to risk it just to give you lot a bit of information that a) you do not need, and b) you do not need. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 08:14:00 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:11:29 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9702260811.AA08970@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1643 Lines: 34 First of all, this is not very SAM related.... > Nobody /owns/ many of the computers that make up the internet. But the net > as a whole is very much /owned/ by the major western goverments - in other > words is they cried 'STOP' then the net would. Actually, it's the oposite. The computers, routers, bridges, etc which are connected to the Internet is owned by somebody. The communication setup (it be copper, microwave, fiber, satelit linkups, etc.) are also owned by somebody, it being private enterprises (like HP, IBM, various private telephone companies, etc) or government bodies (like universities, military, etc). The ISP rents these links. However, if one government decides to pull the plug on government owned link, there are always other which will be there to fill the gap. But nobody owns enought to stop the net as a whole. > All, and I will repeat that, ALL, internet traffic is monitored (mostly by > computer systems). There are some very interesting books on the subject > published in the USA but few seem to filter over here. It's a bit naive to believe that. It's also naive not to believe that some of the net is monitored. There are WAY to many paths to monitor them all, and there is not enought computer power in the world to monitor it. Not to mention it would be pointless. How would you recognise the difference between a porn image and a wav file or any other binary file? Now, you can do a search on text strings and get a fairly good throughput, but how would you differ between english and jiddish? Or encrypted in a 64/128/256 alogrithm? It would be pointless! -Frode, first and last comment. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 08:23:21 1997 Message-Id: <3313F125.41C6@math.uni-goettingen.de> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:15:33 +0100 From: Slawomir Grodkowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; OSF1 V3.2 alpha) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. References: <970225123047_1148267184@emout06.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 915 Lines: 26 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > > Come on then, where were you all? > > I took along the Z380 manual to the Wetherby show and not one person came up > and asked for a look. Nev took along the SRAM diagrams, again not one person > wanted to have one to see how things were going to work. > > So the question is - where were you all? > > I was there, weapons ready to take on all commers, and no bugger turned up > (well at least nobody that wanted to talk SRAM and the SAMSON). > > Excuses accepted from those that were in hospital, out of the country > (although that was a poor excuse I think) or those that had to work (equaly > poor excuse). However, that means that a lot of you will have to hang your > heads in shame for not supporting the show. > > To those of you that did turn up, well done and thank you. > > Bob. Can You scan the z380 manual and upload it to nvg ? I'm interesting on it ... Slawek. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 08:41:38 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:30:40 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9702260830.AA08978@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1663 Lines: 37 > >Do you get paid for giving SAM related advice? If not I don't see how > >this could possibly be relevant ... > > No I get paid for giving advice on computer systems and software and also > business management. > > What I said at an earlier stage was that if one on my customers found out > I was here, there would be nothing stopping him from signing up and then > getting advice through this list for nought. I haven't see you spreading any work related advices on this list yet. Will you start to? Your employers are making sure that you don't use the knowledge they have hired you to posess and pay you to continue to aquire to make money outside their offices. Personally I would have objected to that type of abuse of force. If I were you I would have aproaced my boss, asking him if the contract does not allow you to, in your spare time, help with computer related things which will not affect the company business. > Now the chances of that are slim, but I am not about to risk it just to > give you lot a bit of information that a) you do not need, and b) you do > not need. As a principle I am agains any form of annonymity. If everybody were to take an alias on the Internet (what about in real life? Do you wear a beard when you got to the pub with your mates to discuss business management?) nobody will trust anybody. If I can't be at least with some degree of certaity sure of who I'm dealing with, I would asume he/she is not cincere. No matter the reson! It's about trust. How would you react if somebody phoned you, not saying his/her name, distort his/hers voice and asking you to believe him/her in any matter? -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 08:41:38 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:36:15 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9702260836.AA09003@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 405 Lines: 13 > Excuses accepted from those that were in hospital, out of the country > (although that was a poor excuse I think) or those that had to work (equaly > poor excuse). However, that means that a lot of you will have to hang your > heads in shame for not supporting the show. It was a bit out of my way.... > > To those of you that did turn up, well done and thank you. Any news from the show? -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 09:50:52 1997 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:46:56 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 591 Lines: 18 > >> I refer the gentleman to the reply I gave earlier and to which I stick. > > > >How many time has Bob used this sentence? Hmm...(again) > > It is a standard House of Commons reply which when I saw it used on these > hallowed pages I thought "Good one, must use that, it does just the job" Dan (The right honorable) +==========================+---------------------------------+ | Dan Doore | dooredj@parliament.uk | | HOC SOC & TOP POD | House of Commons Library | +==========================+---------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 10:04:32 1997 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:57:22 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1100 Lines: 25 > Nobody /owns/ many of the computers that make up the internet. But the net > as a whole is very much /owned/ by the major western goverments - in other > words is they cried 'STOP' then the net would. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but back in the days when ARPAnet was expanding one of the design criteria was that the 'network' should be able to continue operating even if a large chunk of it was inoperative - I believe the phrase 'Nuclear Strike' was mentioned at the time - so I doubt this. > All, and I will repeat that, ALL, internet traffic is monitored (mostly by > computer systems). There are some very interesting books on the subject > published in the USA but few seem to filter over here. It depends what you mean by monitor. Yes, traffic flows and packet types are monitored on most major backbones (there is an ftp site where you can get graphs of these) as this is common sense if you want to do any sort of network management. But you can't tell me that, say, Imperial College monitors the *contents* of all the packets passing through it as a matter of course. Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:10:46 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis set sender to Relaxed using -f To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. References: <199702252004.UAA21075@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: unknown Date: 26 Feb 1997 12:02:00 +0000 In-Reply-To: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com's message of Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:04:10 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 685 Lines: 18 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) writes: > > On Feb 25, 1997 11:06:58, 'Mr P R Walker ' wrote: > > Nobody /owns/ many of the computers that make up the internet. But the net > as a whole is very much /owned/ by the major western goverments - in other > words is they cried 'STOP' then the net would. > CRAP. Short of shutting down the telecommunication lines you can't stop it. Lee. -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:10:46 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis set sender to Relaxed using -f To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. References: <970225123047_1148267184@emout06.mail.aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: unknown Date: 26 Feb 1997 12:04:42 +0000 In-Reply-To: BrenchleyR@aol.com's message of Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:30:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 650 Lines: 18 BrenchleyR@aol.com writes: > > Come on then, where were you all? > > I took along the Z380 manual to the Wetherby show and not one person came up > and asked for a look. Nev took along the SRAM diagrams, again not one person > wanted to have one to see how things were going to work. > > So the question is - where were you all? > Erm playing a concert for the Port Sunlight Orchestral Society. -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:10:46 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis set sender to Relaxed using -f To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. References: <970225123047_1148267184@emout06.mail.aol.com> <3313F125.41C6@math.uni-goettingen.de> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: unknown Date: 26 Feb 1997 12:05:15 +0000 In-Reply-To: Slawomir Grodkowski's message of Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:15:33 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 459 Lines: 18 Slawomir Grodkowski writes: > > Can You scan the z380 manual and upload it to nvg ? > I'm interesting on it ... > Hmm. The word copyright springs to mind ... > Slawek. > -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:31:42 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:29 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071128_2028108812@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: The Next Step. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 647 Lines: 20 In a message dated 23/02/97 14:02:36, you write: >On Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:12:46 -0500 (EST), BrenchleyR@aol.com said: >> >> In a message dated 17/02/97 13:28:31, you write: >> >Can you please sort out your quoting so it gives some indication of >> >who wrote it, saying you write is really no good on a mailing list ... >> >> Well its all you are getting because it is all that the software can do. > >I don't really believe you can't get the software to do it, but anyway, >assuming that's true, is it too much to ask for you just to delete the >"you write" and insert "Fred writes"? > >imc > > Two words, and the second one is 'off'. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:31:43 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:38 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071137_-1975461876@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 170 Lines: 7 In a message dated 23/02/97 14:13:55, you write: >> > What release of X is it compiled with? All we want to know is "when is the DOS version going to get done?" Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:31:43 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:39 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071139_-1842504180@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 326 Lines: 19 In a message dated 23/02/97 16:04:57, you write: >On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Ian Collier wrote: > >> On Fri, 21 Feb 1997 05:12:05 -0500 (EST), BrenchleyR@aol.com said: > >> > Someone agreed with me.... >> >> Oh no I didn't - I was referring to the SRAM board. > >Bob's still deluding himself. > > > >Andrew In what way? Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:31:44 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:36 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071135_-2009020916@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 620 Lines: 19 In a message dated 23/02/97 14:08:20, you write: >> There were complaints about bugs in DOS. > >So fix them. You don't need an SRAM card to fix the DOS because, get this, >the DOS is stored on disk and not in the ROM so it's easy to replace. > >imc Oh dear, I forgot that the DOS is in RAM, silly me! Credit me with more than a working knowledge of SAM, after all I did my fair share in the design of it in the first place. The SRAM is needed to make the ROM soft, so that it and the DOS can be fixed. There is no room to fix the DOS until the ROM fixes are moved to where they should be - in the ROM image. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:31:45 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:41 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071141_-1474199412@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Technical Manual Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 397 Lines: 12 In a message dated 24/02/97 09:39:03, you write: >If someone wants a technical manual, they want a technical manual. They do >not want a magazine which may not cover (or may alread have covered many >moons ago) the information they need. > >Simon No, but if they are serious enough about their use of SAM that they want a Technical Manual, then FORMAT should be at the top of their list. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:31:45 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:44 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071143_-1373661940@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 328 Lines: 11 In a message dated 24/02/97 09:52:18, you write: >Samsboss is currently on a week's probation. If after that week I still feel >the way I do now, he's being kill-filed. > >Simon That Simon, is an attitude that does little for anyone. Like anyone else on this list his right to free speach should be defended by us all. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:31:46 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:50 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071148_-1206022132@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1796 Lines: 50 In a message dated 24/02/97 11:23:04, you write: >>There were complaints about SAM C. > >Still these complaints remain -- but there's no way of fixing it, as we have >no access to the source code. No, but with the ability to alter the ROM it should be easier to port another version of C to SAM. > >>There were complaints about HDOS. > >Nev's slowly fixing these, so the jury's still out. But many of the problems are down to the ROM of MasterDOS, which will be fixed when the STAM is ready. > >>There were complaints about bugs in the ROM. > >We need a *comprehensive* *canonical* list of these bugs, and ways of >generating them, so that we can work out exactly where they lie. Very true, I've asked FORMAT readers several time to help compile this but although they tell about the bugs, they don't tell how to reproduce them. > >>There were complaints about bugs in DOS. > >Not seen them myself --- oh yes, the bugs in the DOS with the hook codes. >Now I know what you mean. Yes. > >>All of a sudden, everybody loves the ROM/DOS/HDOS??? I'm told, left, right, >>and centre, that there is no need to rework the SAM operating system, we can >>go on an do the Z380 with what we have. >> >>Would someone care to explain why the change of heart? > >It's just that the Z380 accelerator board would work with existing software >and give an *immediate* boost to everything. The SRAM board and the new O/S >would take a lot of time to get right, and most people wouldn't see the need. But that is all it does, it adds speed but at a price that only a handful would be prepared to pay. The Z380 is something different, it adds speed and new features, but it is months away. The SRAM is a NOW project, one we can get on with and, above everything else, it is one we can learn with. > >Simon Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:31:46 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:52 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071150_-1172464756@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: The Next Step. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 477 Lines: 17 In a message dated 24/02/97 12:05:57, you write: >> Then again praps he be to busy. > >Why is he on this list then? > >Consider the amount of time it takes to type "samsboss writes:" (about >2.5 seconds in my case) and the amount of time it takes to write the rest >of the email. That extra 2.5 seconds is rather insignificant on the big >scale of things, is it not? > >imc Well all those seconds add up to the time I need to have a little lay-in on Sunday morning. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:31:48 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:54 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071152_-1105663988@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 257 Lines: 11 In a message dated 24/02/97 16:52:44, you write: >BTW: Frode... where *IS* CERN? I was hoping to spot it from the plane... > >SImon Most of the time I see pictures of CERN there is this big white circle painted on it :) Bob. (Still interested in Higgs) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:32:04 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:47 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071145_-1306679284@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 482 Lines: 15 In a message dated 24/02/97 10:15:37, you write: >GDOS is only 6.5K object code. I have reverse engineered more than that. >We are talking about quite complex 32K ROM + 14K DOS + ?K HDOS. Though, it >might be fun, it will take a lot of effort. > >However, as I see the need to pull in one direction, I am with you Bob, >though, you know my point of view. :) > > -Frode Thank you Frode. And at least we don't have to reverse engineer from scratch as the source code exists. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:32:04 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:12:01 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071200_43943053@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 321 Lines: 15 In a message dated 25/02/97 11:13:52, you write: >> >> Because, as I've said, I get paid for giving advice to people. So I can't >> do it for free, at least not in my own name. > >Yes, but this isn't advice. > >Ah, sod it. > >Paul Well it is, sometimes, even though some people seem hell-bent on ignoring it. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:32:04 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:12:03 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071202_178090509@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 693 Lines: 20 In a message dated 25/02/97 11:18:00, you write: >> Oh sorry, were you not aware that ALL net traffic in monitored, and not >> just by the good guys either. > >I'm afraid that I'll have to disbelieve you on that point ... unless you >tell us exactly /how/ they monitor traffic when it may not even pass >through their system? > >Paul > > It may interest you to know that I live just a few miles from one of the biggest monitoring sites in Europe. As far as can be known, GCHQ has advanced programs which constantly monitor the Net. I understand there are more sites in other locations and certainly there are gate-way sites into certain countries that do an awful lot of monitoring. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:32:05 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:59 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226071158_-803871476@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 228 Lines: 11 In a message dated 25/02/97 11:12:21, you write: >> Sorry, but they don't need permission, they own the whole thing. > >You're confused, or paranoid. Nobody owns the internet. > >Paul Try telling that to Mr Clinton :) Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:57:28 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <6778.199702261232@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:32:13 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970226071158_-803871476@emout19.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 26, 97 07:11:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 204 Lines: 7 > >> Sorry, but they don't need permission, they own the whole thing. > >You're confused, or paranoid. Nobody owns the internet. > Try telling that to Mr Clinton :) Bring him here, and I will. :) Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:57:28 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <6838.199702261233@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:32:55 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970226071143_-1373661940@emout09.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 26, 97 07:11:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 236 Lines: 8 > That Simon, is an attitude that does little for anyone. Like anyone else on > this list his right to free speach should be defended by us all. He has a right to free speech - just as Simon has the right to ignore him. Simple. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:57:28 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <6907.199702261233@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SAM Technical Manual To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:33:32 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970226071141_-1474199412@emout07.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 26, 97 07:11:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 308 Lines: 9 > No, but if they are serious enough about their use of SAM that they want a > Technical Manual, then FORMAT should be at the top of their list. Actually, if they're that serious, then Based On An Idea should be top of their list. Format doesn't really cover all that much technical stuff, you know. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:57:38 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:40:35 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226074035_1148367375@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1605 Lines: 40 In a message dated 26/02/97 10:01:06, you write: >Please correct me if I'm wrong, but back in the days when ARPAnet was >expanding one >of the design criteria was that the 'network' should be able to continue >operating >even if a large chunk of it was inoperative - I believe the phrase 'Nuclear >Strike' >was mentioned at the time - so I doubt this. That was to protect from acts of war - no country is free enough in this day and age that it would give up its right to cut the net /if/ it wanted to. And as a very large part of the net in either US owned and controled, or relies on US equipment, then I have to agree that if the US Gov wanted to, they could bring the whole thing to a stop. > >> All, and I will repeat that, ALL, internet traffic is monitored (mostly by >> computer systems). There are some very interesting books on the subject >> published in the USA but few seem to filter over here. > >It depends what you mean by monitor. > [snip] > >But you can't tell me that, say, Imperial College monitors the *contents* of >all the >packets passing through it as a matter of course. I would think they do some monitoring, but it is the likes of GCHQ that do the bulk of the work. And if they can monitor thousands of phone and radio links at once, searching for key words in several different languages, then I'm sure they can read email, newsgroups and the like. Oh, BTW, it is illigal in the UK and the USA to send encripted data by electronic means without providing the authorities with a copy of the decription algorithm - just thought you would like to know that. > >Dan. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:57:38 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:40:37 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226074036_1316092175@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 219 Lines: 11 In a message dated 26/02/97 12:03:14, you write: > >CRAP. Short of shutting down the telecommunication lines you can't >stop it. > >Lee. If you believe that, then you do not understand the power of Government. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 12:57:39 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:40:28 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970226074027_584665487@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 218 Lines: 10 In a message dated 26/02/97 08:33:07, you write: >Can You scan the z380 manual and upload it to nvg ? >I'm interesting on it ... > >Slawek. Sorry, no, it is copyright. But I am trying to get some more copies. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 13:12:09 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis set sender to Relaxed using -f To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg References: <970226071137_-1975461876@emout04.mail.aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: unknown Date: 26 Feb 1997 12:45:12 +0000 In-Reply-To: BrenchleyR@aol.com's message of Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 467 Lines: 14 BrenchleyR@aol.com writes: > > >> > What release of X is it compiled with? > > All we want to know is "when is the DOS version going to get done?" > Nope, I think most of us use X or Linux, _you_ want DOS. Eurgh! -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 13:12:10 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:56:28 GMT Subject: Re: SAM Technical Manual X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <723BA87738@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 306 Lines: 8 > Actually, if they're that serious, then Based On An Idea should be > top of their list. Format doesn't really cover all that much technical stuff, > you know. > > Paul Although, if only BOAI came out half as regularly as Format, then we'd be flying ;) Speaking of which, is issue 3 ready yet Cookie? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 13:12:10 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <9625.199702261300@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:00:44 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970226074035_1148367375@emout02.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 26, 97 07:40:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 511 Lines: 14 > Oh, BTW, it is illigal in the UK and the USA to send encripted data by > electronic means without providing the authorities with a copy of the > decription algorithm - just thought you would like to know that. That's fine, and irrelevant. Any encryption scheme that relies on keeping the algorithm secret to be good is useless anyway. Hell, they can even have the /source/ to PGP if they want - if they ain't got my key, they ain't decrypting /anything/... (Says Paul, trying out a new language style.) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 13:12:11 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <9779.199702261301@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:01:47 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970226074035_1148367375@emout02.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 26, 97 07:40:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 367 Lines: 9 > as a very large part of the net in either US owned and controled, or relies > on US equipment, then I have to agree that if the US Gov wanted to, they > could bring the whole thing to a stop. In another message, you say that people don't understand the power of the government. I suspect that maybe you don't fully understand the resilience of the internet. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 13:12:11 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis set sender to Relaxed using -f To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. References: <970226074036_1316092175@emout03.mail.aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: unknown Date: 26 Feb 1997 13:05:13 +0000 In-Reply-To: BrenchleyR@aol.com's message of Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:40:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 549 Lines: 20 BrenchleyR@aol.com writes: > > >CRAP. Short of shutting down the telecommunication lines you can't > >stop it. > > > >Lee. > > If you believe that, then you do not understand the power of Government. > I refer the gentleman to Frode's earlier reply .... (Doh!, looks like I'm Bob as well ...) -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 13:27:59 1997 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:15:02 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1020 Lines: 24 [blah snip] > if the US Gov wanted to, they could bring the whole thing to a stop. That's only an a *very* broad view, it wouldn't affect my emails to NVG etc so from that point of view nothing would be different. Basically, 'Inter' in 'Internet' does not mean 'US'. > I would think they do some monitoring, but it is the likes of GCHQ that do > the bulk of the work. And if they can monitor thousands of phone and radio > links at once, searching for key words in several different languages, then > I'm sure they can read email, newsgroups and the like. Hmmm, I know my understanding of TCP/IP is more than a little flawed, but the Internet is not a broadcast network - routers send the little packets to their destinations so therefore GCHQ/CIA or whoever would have to have some sort of agent (as in SNMP - not James Bond :) sitting on every router/uplink out of the country to be able to see everything that came in and out. But I think I'm guilty of straying from the point - whatever that was.... :) Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 13:41:34 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <12786.199702261326@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:26:12 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "unknown" at Feb 26, 97 12:45:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 151 Lines: 7 > Nope, I think most of us use X or Linux, _you_ want DOS. Eurgh! Nothing wrong with DOS. That's what I use... Certainly friendlier than unix. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 13:57:30 1997 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:42:00 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Doore" at Feb 26, 97 01:15:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 79 Lines: 2 unsubscribe sam-users-waffle-on-about-net-traffic-being-monitored@nvg.unit.no From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 13:57:44 1997 Subject: Re: SAM Technical Manual To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:43:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <723BA87738@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> from "Gavin Smith" at Feb 26, 97 12:56:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <19970226134441Z49165-12132+1818@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 899 Lines: 29 > > > Actually, if they're that serious, then Based On An Idea should be > > top of their list. Format doesn't really cover all that much technical stuff, > > you know. > > > > Paul > > Although, if only BOAI came out half as regularly as Format, then > we'd be flying ;) Speaking of which, is issue 3 ready yet Cookie? Gimme chance! :) Sorry for the delay folks... this has been due to a number of things... including: 1. bereavement 2. lack of working space 3. lots of work at work 4. lots of trips abroad due to work 5. transportation *back* from work of an evening taking about 2 hours most nights (meaning I didn't get home until 8pm-ish) 6. moving house 7. having to get the house ship-shape. Fortunately, it's nearly all sorted now, so things should get moving again within the next week or so. Simon ps. 's all my fault that the mag hasn't got out yet - not Martin or Maria's. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 13:57:44 1997 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:46:35 GMT+0 Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 535 Lines: 19 > >How many time has Bob used this sentence? Hmm...(again) > > It is a standard House of Commons reply which when I saw it used on these > hallowed pages I thought "Good one, must use that, it does just the job" > Must admit, I've started using it now...although the correct phraseology is: 'I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago' > -- > > Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com > Johnna Pig Teare (JohnnaPig@deathsdoor.com) JohnnaPig OnLine (www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna) "They call me Mad The Swine." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 15:43:57 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:30:19 -0500 (EST) From: Gouranga@aol.com Message-ID: <970226103015_-1038542314@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: SAM Clearance!!! Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 528 Lines: 25 Owing to the circumstances that those of you who don't know about, soon will ;), I've got a couple of things lying around that are looking for good homes :- Reconditioned slimline disc drive Used SAM 512K with one disc drive and comms interface 2 x 80Mb IDE hard drives, suitable for SAM 1 x 170Mb IDE hard drive, suitable for SAM Spectrum stuff :- 2 x Spectrum 48Ks, one with SAGA2 keyboard. Interface One 2 x Multiface Ones Opus Discovery 2 x Microdrives ZX Printer MGT DISCiPLE + 3.5" drive Make your offers!!! Colin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 16:29:05 1997 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:43:44 GMT+0 Subject: Concern For The SAM X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3729 Lines: 80 Hello, I've been thinking about this for a while and finally decided to put it out to the list to see whether it is just a paranoid fear of mine, or it is shared by many others. We all know that the SAM scene is slowing down. In the last two years or so there have been very few new projects that have inspired users to keep hold of their machines in the way that Prince of Persia etc. did in the early years. A lot of this blame can be layed firmly at the door of West Coast Computers for doing nothing to promote the machine, although I am of the belief now that even if they had given the SAM a push, it would have achieved very little. So lots of people have been deserting their machines for the wonderful glitzy world of PC's and Playstations. Fair enough. When you compare these machines to the SAM, there is no comparison. Whereas you might be lucky if a dozen new SAM games are released a year, these machines have dozens of them every month. And the PC is now the industry standard in computers and will be for a long time to come yet. There have been some people in the SAM World (!) who have tried to keep things going, and others who have smothered innovation and drove people away through silencing tactics. But it leaves us in a state of despair for the future. Because there isn't one. Now we find ourselves in the position of designing a new prototype for a Super SAM. This is a wonderful idea in principle as it will encourage those who have SAM's now to stick with the scene for a little bit longer, and will also draw some new blood into our industry. In theory. We all love our SAM's, and I for one will never sell it, but it doesn't mean I won't move on to new computers. Most of us are on this mailing list because we either own or have Uni access to PC's and whilst they do have their faults, the advantages over most other machines they have far outweight the niggling difficulties we have to endure. So here is my point. The SRAM card has been proposed as a step in the right direction of putting the SAM back on the road to recovery. But plainly it won't. It might allow a couple of people to tinker with the DOS and the ROM, although quiet what advantages this will have I do not know. The Z380 Card was also a proposition, but this is obviously not going to happen because Bob believes the SRAM should come first. Fair enough, after all it is his money that is going to fund this whole project. However, unless we get something out to the people who currently own SAM's soon (meaning in the next couple of months) there will be no interested SAM users left. Anybody who will be interested in biggerbetterfastermore will have gone out and bought a PC and the SAM will rest in a dusty hole under the stairs. Something must be released - and something that is going to make a difference to the SAM. Even if we just let on that this project is in the pipeline we might be able to keep hold of a couple of people who would be interested. But if we just trundle along hoping everything is going to be alright we will be following firmly in the footsteps of MGT when they released the SAM. We will have a wonderful machine, but it will be obselete before it is even released with no potential market left because they have all moved on to better things. As sorry as the mistakes of Alan and Bruce were, we mustn't sympathise with them by making the same mistakes again. Sorry for the length of this one. Just one more question. Bob, did you ever get in touch with "WCC" and ask if they'd fund the SAMSon project? **grins** Johnna Pig Teare (JohnnaPig@deathsdoor.com) JohnnaPig OnLine (www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna) "They call me Mad The Swine." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 17:45:03 1997 From: Stacey Witney To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at relay-11.mail.demon.net Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:15:05 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <856974139.10435.0@huggable.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 886 Lines: 29 ---------- > From: unknown > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg > Date: 26 February 1997 12:45 pm > > BrenchleyR@aol.com writes: > > > > >> > What release of X is it compiled with? > > > > All we want to know is "when is the DOS version going to get done?" > > > > Nope, I think most of us use X or Linux, _you_ want DOS. Eurgh! > You may say that, but most people who are using a home PC are running Dos/Windows. I've just gone through the *severe* head-ache of repartioning (making 250Mb of disk space redundant) to install Linux. And then I can't even use X because there is no driver for my Mystique card. All this to be able to use an emulator. If it were to run under Dos, it would have only taken up, say, 1Mb. Instead, I've had to use 250Mb+. I think you'll get a lot more users if you don't say 'DOS. Eurgh!'. -Stacey From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 17:45:03 1997 From: Stacey Witney To: Sam Users Subject: Stop the tech manual thread please!!!! Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:21:32 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <856974141.10448.0@huggable.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 112 Lines: 6 Please stop this thread. I picked a copy of the manual up from Bob in Wetherby at the weekend! Thanks, Stacey From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 17:45:03 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:34:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Dave To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply In-Reply-To: <970226074035_1148367375@emout02.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1981 Lines: 50 It is legal to use encryption that the government cannot de-encrypt. Take PGP for example. It is 100% legal to use this in the UK - and the government cannot crack it. The USA do force you to use a different version of the program however. On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 26/02/97 10:01:06, you write: > > >Please correct me if I'm wrong, but back in the days when ARPAnet was > >expanding one > >of the design criteria was that the 'network' should be able to continue > >operating > >even if a large chunk of it was inoperative - I believe the phrase 'Nuclear > >Strike' > >was mentioned at the time - so I doubt this. > > That was to protect from acts of war - no country is free enough in this day > and age that it would give up its right to cut the net /if/ it wanted to. And > as a very large part of the net in either US owned and controled, or relies > on US equipment, then I have to agree that if the US Gov wanted to, they > could bring the whole thing to a stop. > > > >> All, and I will repeat that, ALL, internet traffic is monitored (mostly by > >> computer systems). There are some very interesting books on the subject > >> published in the USA but few seem to filter over here. > > > >It depends what you mean by monitor. > > > [snip] > > > >But you can't tell me that, say, Imperial College monitors the *contents* of > >all the > >packets passing through it as a matter of course. > > I would think they do some monitoring, but it is the likes of GCHQ that do > the bulk of the work. And if they can monitor thousands of phone and radio > links at once, searching for key words in several different languages, then > I'm sure they can read email, newsgroups and the like. > > Oh, BTW, it is illigal in the UK and the USA to send encripted data by > electronic means without providing the authorities with a copy of the > decription algorithm - just thought you would like to know that. > > > >Dan. > > Bob. > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 19:35:11 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:45:28 GMT Message-Id: <199702261845.SAA26993@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 729 Lines: 27 On Feb 26, 1997 12:04:42, 'unknown ' wrote: >BrenchleyR@aol.com writes: >> >> Come on then, where were you all? >> >> I took along the Z380 manual to the Wetherby show and not one person came up >> and asked for a look. Nev took along the SRAM diagrams, again not one person >> wanted to have one to see how things were going to work. >> >> So the question is - where were you all? >> > >Erm playing a concert for the Port Sunlight Orchestral Society. > You have my total admiration, anyone who understands music I take my hat off to. I spent 4 yrs at school trying to understand what all them little blobs on lines were but could never get it. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 20:28:07 1997 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: sskardon@argonet.co.uk (Stewart Skardon) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 19:43:05 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM Content-Type: text/richtext Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Message-Id: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2025 Lines: 4 On Wed 26 Feb 97 (15:43:44), j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk wrote: >Hello,>>I've been thinking about this for a while and finally decided to put >it out to the list to see whether it is just a paranoid fear of mine, >or it is shared by many others.>[BIG SNIP] Yes I think it is a shared fear.>We all love our SAM's, and I for one will never sell it, but it SNAP!>doesn't mean I won't move on to new computers. Most of us are on this >mailing list because we either own or have Uni access to PC's and >whilst they do have their faults, the advantages over most other >machines they have far outweight the niggling difficulties we have to >endure.>[Another snip]>Something must be released - and something that is going to make a >difference to the SAM. Even if we just let on that this project is in >the pipeline we might be able to keep hold of a couple of people who >would be interested.>Here here! It's time we all stopped this bickering about who SAMsboss is,(which quite frankly I couldn't care less about now), and did something to help SAM live a bit longer, like get on with it.I know, the question "well what do you do for the SAM" is bound to come up at some point, and the answer - I support it. I've always wanted to play an important role in SAMs future, but alas, it wasn't to be. So maybe I can just help you lot play an important role.If only people would make a start!>Johnna Pig Teare (JohnnaPig@deathsdoor.com)>JohnnaPig OnLine (www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna)>"They call me Mad The Swine.">>And remember folks, check out the Crashed site.-- _(_`tewart sskardon@argonet.co.uk,_) kardon http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/mind.html Crashed WWW Site - http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon NSSS Web Site - http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/nsss.html From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 20:28:07 1997 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:19:12 +0000 Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply - Reply X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 247 Lines: 8 > unsubscribe sam-users-waffle-on-about-net-traffic-being-monitored@nvg.unit.no --- dave --- If you can read this message your browser does not support frames, video, sound, mime, color, text or any of that irratating acidic jelly. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 20:28:07 1997 From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:20:42 +0000 Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 538 Lines: 14 > > Nope, I think most of us use X or Linux, _you_ want DOS. Eurgh! > > Nothing wrong with DOS. That's what I use... Certainly friendlier > than unix. > Um, I might even disagree. . . sometimes I find myself doing unixy things, which dos cannot do, in DOS, and getting laughed at by my flatmate. But then again, that's at uni. I use DOS, and I'd kinda like a DOS version too. --- dave --- If you can read this message your browser does not support frames, video, sound, mime, color, text or any of that irratating acidic jelly. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 20:36:18 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:33:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Dave To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg In-Reply-To: <856974139.10435.0@huggable.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1451 Lines: 41 On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Stacey Witney wrote: > > > ---------- > > From: unknown > > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > > Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg > > Date: 26 February 1997 12:45 pm > > > > BrenchleyR@aol.com writes: > > > > > > >> > What release of X is it compiled with? > > > > > > All we want to know is "when is the DOS version going to get done?" > > > > > > > Nope, I think most of us use X or Linux, _you_ want DOS. Eurgh! > > > You may say that, but most people who are using a home PC are running > Dos/Windows. I've just gone through the *severe* head-ache of repartioning > (making 250Mb of disk space redundant) to install Linux. And then I can't > even use X because there is no driver for my Mystique card. All this to be > able to use an emulator. > > If it were to run under Dos, it would have only taken up, say, 1Mb. > Instead, I've had to use 250Mb+. > > I think you'll get a lot more users if you don't say 'DOS. Eurgh!'. > > -Stacey > I agree with this statement. I do not dispute for a second whether Linux is superior to DOS, however, since the majority of home users use DOS this being the operating system which is most widely suppored in the home computer market, it is impossible to ignore. The SAM is becoming increasingly rare anyway, why destroy its chances still further by only writing an emulator for an operating system that is rarely used in the market at which you are aiming? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Feb 26 21:06:57 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:50:58 GMT Message-Id: <199702262050.UAA17881@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 622 Lines: 20 On Feb 26, 1997 12:45:12, 'unknown ' wrote: >BrenchleyR@aol.com writes: >> >> >> > What release of X is it compiled with? >> >> All we want to know is "when is the DOS version going to get done?" >> > >Nope, I think most of us use X or Linux, _you_ want DOS. Eurgh! > >-- Twood appear that lots of you is still at uni, where UNIX and the like seem to rule. Just wait until you get out into the _real_ world. If you are lucky you get DOS, if you are unlucky yous gets Windows or OS2, but if you have been very bad in your past lives - you get 95! -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 00:40:22 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:35:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@navy.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. In-Reply-To: <970225123047_1148267184@emout06.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1840 Lines: 44 On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > Come on then, where were you all? > > I took along the Z380 manual to the Wetherby show and not one person came up > and asked for a look. Nev took along the SRAM diagrams, again not one person > wanted to have one to see how things were going to work. For the Z380 manual, "A look" wouldn't be much use, but "reading it from cover to cover" is not an activity quite suitable for a computer show. Besides, I'd need to make reference to it. Back at home. > So the question is - where were you all? Lectures? > I was there, weapons ready to take on all commers, and no bugger turned up > (well at least nobody that wanted to talk SRAM and the SAMSON). > > Excuses accepted from those that were in hospital, out of the country > (although that was a poor excuse I think) or those that had to work (equaly > poor excuse). However, that means that a lot of you will have to hang your > heads in shame for not supporting the show. I'm sorry Bob, I didn't realise we had to answer to you. Seriously though, I didn't expect it would be worth a considerable chunk of time and money to attend that show (right in the middle of term, and probably at least 40UKP train fare), though I do hope to go to Gloucester. > To those of you that did turn up, well done and thank you. > > Bob. Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Journalism is literature in a hurry | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | -fortune | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 00:40:23 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:36:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@navy.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. In-Reply-To: <199702252004.UAA21075@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 955 Lines: 22 On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >> Sorry, but they don't need permission, they own the whole thing. > > > >You're confused, or paranoid. Nobody owns the internet. > > Nobody /owns/ many of the computers that make up the internet. But the net > as a whole is very much /owned/ by the major western goverments - in other > words is they cried 'STOP' then the net would. And people pay this guy for computing advice?! Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Journalism is literature in a hurry | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | -fortune | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 00:46:34 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:42:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@navy.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. In-Reply-To: <199702252237.WAA09252@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1355 Lines: 31 On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > What I said at an earlier stage was that if one on my customers found out > I was here, there would be nothing stopping him from signing up and then > getting advice through this list for nought. I think a question, out of the blue, from a newbie subscriber, asking questions which have nothing to do with Sam, may just possibly look a bit sus. > Now the chances of that are slim, but I am not about to risk it just to > give you lot a bit of information that a) you do not need, and b) you do > not need. Nor do we *need* to listen to a word you say. Is there any proof you actually have this job, and that you are not just using "your contract" as a neat excuse? Why did you never mention the job all those months ago when you first joined the list, when people asked who you were? Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Journalism is literature in a hurry | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | -fortune | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 01:35:29 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:55:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@navy.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability In-Reply-To: <970226071148_-1206022132@emout11.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1012 Lines: 24 On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > But many of the problems are down to the ROM of MasterDOS, which will be The what? > Very true, I've asked FORMAT readers several time to help compile this but > although they tell about the bugs, they don't tell how to reproduce them. The bugs are usually very hard to reproduce, because they are quite complex and often involve several combined factors. And if they're hard to reproduce, they'll be very hard to find and even harder to fix reliably. Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Journalism is literature in a hurry | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | -fortune | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 09:06:28 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 04:01:57 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: SimCoupe at nvg Message-Id: <19970227090218Z49159-12132+1919@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1350 Lines: 47 Date: 1997-02-27 09:01 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Dave Hooper" <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:20:42 +0000 Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg >> > Nope, I think most of us use X or Linux, _you_ want DOS. Eurgh] >> >> Nothing wrong with DOS. That's what I use... Certainly friendlier >> than unix. >> >Um, I might even disagree. . . sometimes I find myself doing unixy >things, which dos cannot do, in DOS, and getting laughed at by my >flatmate. But then again, that's at uni. I use DOS, and I'd kinda >like a DOS version too. Hmmm. At the risc of starting a new thread could I just point out that it is not the operating system that you are making comments about. Its the user interface. for unix its ksh/csh/sh/bsh/x etc for DOS its command.com for windows its win.com + lots of dlls for sam its BASIC the actual o/s is more or less transparent to the person sitting at the keyboard. ok I realise you all knew this and I'm just wasting electricity. But I had to get it of my chest. Nev (currently at work and using: WIN3.1 on a pc X windows on a pc-unix link ksh on unix MARC on unisys A18 mainframe CANDE on unisys A18 mainframe Extra on a pc - IBM whot not mainframe something transparent on a sun sparc) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 09:41:16 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 04:17:43 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: SimCoupe at nvg Message-Id: <19970227091806Z49196-12132+1923@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 947 Lines: 31 Date: 1997-02-27 09:15 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >On Feb 26, 1997 12:45:12, 'unknown ' wrote: >>BrenchleyR@aol.com writes: >>> >>> >> > What release of X is it compiled with? >>> >>> All we want to know is "when is the DOS version going to get done?" >>> >> >>Nope, I think most of us use X or Linux, _you_ want DOS. Eurgh] >> >>-- >Twood appear that lots of you is still at uni, where UNIX and the like seem >to rule. Just wait until you get out into the _real_ world. If you are >lucky you get DOS, if you are unlucky yous gets Windows or OS2, but if you >have been very bad in your past lives - you get 95] I must be weird. I get on with all operating systems. But then I'm older than most of them. balencing the PC keyboard on the edge of my Zimmer[tm! Nev From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 09:41:16 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 04:19:50 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Missed you at Wetherby. Message-Id: <19970227092006Z49183-12132+1924@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 487 Lines: 22 Date: 1997-02-27 09:19 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Andrew Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. >On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: >> Come on then, where were you all? >I'm sorry Bob, I didn't realise we had to answer to you. >Andrew ** Having a good day but then its only 9:18 ** Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 09:41:17 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 04:26:02 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. Message-Id: <19970227092626Z49205-12132+1926@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 474 Lines: 22 Date: 1997-02-27 09:25 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Andrew Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. >On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >Nor do we *need* to listen to a word you say. Then why do you ? Old saying hereabouts If you don't fan the flames the fire will go out. ** Nev with a bigger wooden spoon that most ** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 09:41:17 1997 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:36:41 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM - Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 72 Lines: 3 So, is it just me or did Stewert's mail come in as an RTF file??? Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 10:10:18 1997 Message-Id: <199702270950.KAA27510@dxmint.cern.ch> From: Allan Skillman Subject: Sam Timings To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 97 10:50:25 MET Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4260 Lines: 79 Hi All, As this is a list devoted to talk about the Sam (Shock horror), I'm going to ask some nice technical questions. These are all related to my quest for perfection in SimCoupe. All the pevious incarnations (vn < 0.5) have used mean instruction timings for the z80. The latest version implements true tstate timing so that I can simulate things like border effects properly. Mt first question is rather simple : We in the generation of a screen line does the line interrupt take place. Naively it might be expected to take place at the end of the scan line ie at the _end_ of the rhs border. However according to the technical manual it occurs at the end of the main screen _before_ the rhs border is generated. Can someone confirm which one is correct? Also if teh latter possibility is right, when does hpen update at the start of the rhs border or when the line generation is in horizontal flyback? Someone with an OSC should be able to tell me what really happens. My second question is the real problem at the moment, its got me tearing my hair out. In fact if anyone can tell me exactly why I see this effect I will greatfuly buy them a beer at the next show - now there is an offer you can't refuse :) OK here we go : According to the literature each of the 312 Sam display lines take 384 tstates to generate, this includes 256 tstates in the main screen (in which their is ASIC contention for the memory) and 128 tstates in the border generation and horizontal flyback. Sam lhs and rhs borders appear to be around 32 pixels wide on my Monitor making 64 tstates for horz. flyback. Can someone confirm these timings using an OSC for a start? OK In the top/bottom border area you would expect to have no contention by the ASIC, apart from the usual (instruction length MOD 4) effect (as doumented by David Z. in BOAI-2. Logically this means you need to have a loop which reciprocates every 384 tstates to generate a 'stable' border image. By stable I mean one where the border 'pixels' are in alignment. Andrew Collier and I have been experimenting with this and found that indeed a 384 tstate loop does generate a stable image. However - and this is the crux of the matter, it is possible to write a loop which contains 384+4 or 384-4 tstates and still get a stable image. These two possibilites seem to be mutually exclusive - either a loop works with 380 and 384 or 384 and 388, but never all 3 timings. Now the former (380+4) I can possibly explain (waves his hands about) by some sort of the ASIC contention, ie the z80 has to wait for the last burst write from the ASIC and hence misses the last 4 tstates. However explaining how the z80 can 'beat' the ASIC to allow 388 tstates is much harder. Surely the ASIC can't be 'held up', or the display would 'wobble'. The only possible explaination for the '388 effect' (although it doesn't explain the '380 effect' is that during horz. flyback the (instruction length MOD 4) effect dissapears and the z80 runs at its default rate, hence the 388 tstates are not really 388 tstates. Anyone got a clue? Also on the subject of SimCoupe on DOS, I have no objections in someone producing a DOS version of the program. The code is GPLed. All I will say is that I don't have any real intention of doing it (Not unless someone offers to pay me anyway :). The emulator project was never meant to be anything other than an interesting exercise, and I don't really want to spend my sparetime sitting waiting for DOS to compile the code when in Linux I can get on with something else in a different window. +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Now available! SimCoupe, the one and only SAM Coupe emulator | | ****** http://www.hep.ucl.ac.uk/~ajs/simcoupe/simcoupe.html ****** | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ | Allan Skillman | "There are five flavours of resons, the | | HEPP Group | elementary particles of magic : up, down, | | University College London | sideways, sex-appeal and peppermint." | | Email : ajs@hep.ucl.ac.uk | - Terry Pratchett (Lords and Ladies) | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 10:55:52 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:53:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg In-Reply-To: <970226071137_-1975461876@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 777 Lines: 19 On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 23/02/97 14:13:55, you write: > > >> > What release of X is it compiled with? > > All we want to know is "when is the DOS version going to get done?" If I had the time, I would help. Using DJGPP, it shouldn't make too many problems. The bit that would need significant changing would be the graphics output. -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 11:33:00 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:13:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 996 Lines: 24 On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Dave Hooper wrote: > > > Nope, I think most of us use X or Linux, _you_ want DOS. Eurgh! > > > > Nothing wrong with DOS. That's what I use... Certainly friendlier > > than unix. > > > > Um, I might even disagree. . . sometimes I find myself doing unixy > things, which dos cannot do, in DOS, and getting laughed at by my > flatmate. But then again, that's at uni. I use DOS, and I'd kinda > like a DOS version too. Beleive it or not, I found myself typing 'call 0' on this unix workstation a couple of days ago.. :) (I'm often doing it on my PC to change configuration) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 11:41:24 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:34:23 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Technical Manual In-Reply-To: <6907.199702261233@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 840 Lines: 19 On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Mr P R Walker wrote: > > > No, but if they are serious enough about their use of SAM that they want a > > Technical Manual, then FORMAT should be at the top of their list. > > Actually, if they're that serious, then Based On An Idea should be > top of their list. Format doesn't really cover all that much technical stuff, > you know. Actually, there is nothing on the top of my list. (except, probably to get a life! :) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 11:41:24 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:37:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability In-Reply-To: <970226071148_-1206022132@emout11.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 707 Lines: 15 On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > new features, but it is months away. The SRAM is a NOW project, one we can > get on with and, above everything else, it is one we can learn with. I think the most important thing to learn is HOW TO WORK WITH EACH OTHER!!!! So far, that's not going too well.. :( -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From imc Thu Feb 27 11:46:49 1997 Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:46:49 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Doore" at Feb 27, 97 09:36:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 214 Lines: 6 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:36:41 +0000, Dan Doore said: > So, is it just me or did Stewert's mail come in as an RTF file??? Not just you... imc (fortunately we have a program called richtext which can translate it) From imc Thu Feb 27 11:49:07 1997 Subject: Re: Sam Timings To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:49:07 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199702270950.KAA27510@dxmint.cern.ch> from "Allan Skillman" at Feb 27, 97 10:50:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 857 Lines: 19 On Thu, 27 Feb 97 10:50:25 MET, Allan Skillman said: > In fact if anyone can tell me exactly why I see this effect I will > greatfuly buy them a beer at the next show - now there is an offer you > can't refuse :) ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes I can. :-) > Andrew Collier and I have been experimenting with this and found that indeed > a 384 tstate loop does generate a stable image. However - and this is the > crux of the matter, it is possible to write a loop which contains 384+4 > or 384-4 tstates and still get a stable image. These two possibilites > seem to be mutually exclusive - either a loop works with 380 and 384 > or 384 and 388, but never all 3 timings. The most likely explanation is that you have counted the Tstates wrongly. How did you count them? Let's see the program... imc From imc Thu Feb 27 11:54:01 1997 Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:54:01 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Dave" at Feb 26, 97 08:33:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 479 Lines: 11 On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:33:47 +0000 (GMT), Dave said: > The SAM is becoming > increasingly rare anyway, why destroy its chances still further by only > writing an emulator for an operating system that is rarely used in the > market at which you are aiming? Who says he's aiming at a market? I'm sure he would write a DOS version if he were selling it for money, but he isn't so it doesn't matter how many people use DOS. imc From imc Thu Feb 27 11:56:40 1997 Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:56:40 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199702262050.UAA17881@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Feb 26, 97 08:50:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 798 Lines: 15 On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:50:58 GMT, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com said: > Twood appear that lots of you is still at uni, where UNIX and the like seem > to rule. Just wait until you get out into the _real_ world. If you are > lucky you get DOS, if you are unlucky yous gets Windows or OS2, but if you > have been very bad in your past lives - you get 95! Fortunately, my job is with Unix and will be for some time (unless I branch out into OS/2, but that's another matter and is unlikely). However, if I were in a job in which I was forced to use W95 then I doubt I would want to install SimCoupe anyway because the machine would belong to my employer and I might be expected to do some work on it. On the other hand I would have a machine of my own running Linux and I might install it on that. imc From imc Thu Feb 27 12:03:16 1997 Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:03:16 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970226071135_-2009020916@emout03.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 26, 97 07:11:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 536 Lines: 13 On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:36 -0500 (EST), BrenchleyR@aol.com said: > The SRAM is needed to make the ROM soft, so that it and the DOS can be fixed. > There is no room to fix the DOS until the ROM fixes are moved to where they > should be - in the ROM image. What are you wittering on about? The ROM bugs have nothing to do with the DOS, and even if they were then a simple EPROM could fix the important ones without the use of an SRAM board. What is to stop you from writing a different DOS and booting it up on a standard Sam? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 12:53:31 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:49:36 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: A Question Of Stability Message-Id: <19970227124955Z49174-12132+1942@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 993 Lines: 34 Date: 1997-02-27 12:49 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Ian Collier Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:03:16 +0000 (GMT) >On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:36 -0500 (EST), BrenchleyR@aol.com said: >> The SRAM is needed to make the ROM soft, so that it and the DOS can be >fixed. >> There is no room to fix the DOS until the ROM fixes are moved to where they >> should be - in the ROM image. > >What are you wittering on about? The ROM bugs have nothing to do with the >DOS, and even if they were then a simple EPROM could fix the important ones >without the use of an SRAM board. > >What is to stop you from writing a different DOS and booting it up on a >standard Sam? > >imc AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH Right thats it. I'm not spending any more time on the SRAM. Just use the Bruce's RAM/ROM board that we already have. Nev. (abandoning ship) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 13:15:56 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <21083.199702271308@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:08:35 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <19970227090218Z49159-12132+1919@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> from "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" at Feb 27, 97 04:01:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 109 Lines: 7 > not the operating system that you are making comments about. Its the user > interface. Good point. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 13:15:56 1997 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:10:05 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9702271203.AA22930@client28.comlab.ox.ac.uk> from "Ian Collier" at Feb 27, 97 12:03:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 430 Lines: 12 > What is to stop you from writing a different DOS and booting it up on a > standard Sam? > I can think of a few minor problems - firstly nearly all discs have a copy of DOS on them, so if we had a new DOS it would unlikely fit in the 10K or so taken up by SAMDOS2. OK - that's a minor point. The other thing is: are there any programs which use nearly all of the SAM's 512K and hence wouldn't have room for a larger DOS? Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 13:42:31 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:45:45 GMT Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <8B132B5B36@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2708 Lines: 57 Johanna Teare wrote: > We all know that the SAM scene is slowing down. In the last two years > or so there have been very few new projects that have inspired users > to keep hold of their machines in the way that Prince of Persia etc. > did in the early years. A lot of this blame can be layed firmly at > the door of West Coast Computers for doing nothing to promote the > machine, although I am of the belief now that even if they had given > the SAM a push, it would have achieved very little. Don't quite agree with this last statement - a 200 quid computer, with built in BASIC, a few educational programs, a game or two and a word processor still sounds quite a nice deal. Okay, probably not mass market, but I think it could have sold twice as many if WCC had made a little effort. *BOB READ THIS* Bob, I don't know why you are ignoring everything I ask you (in private and on this list) but I'm asking you again - can I put free WCC adverts in Sam World magazine and if not, why not? > come yet. There have been some people in the SAM World (!) who have > tried to keep things going, and others who have smothered innovation > and drove people away through silencing tactics. But it leaves us in > a state of despair for the future. Because there isn't one. As a mass market machine, I agree there is no future - but if the SAM can pick up a few more users from the Samson (which I have to admit, I'm beginning to doubt will ever materalise...), things can trundle along quite nicely. I don't think any of us are keeping our SAMs because of the software or hardware, but rather because we love the SAM and its community. >The Z380 Card was also a proposition, but this is >obviously not going to happen because Bob believes the SRAM should >come first. Fair enough, after all it is his money that is going to >fund this whole project. I've kept quiet on what takes priority in this Z380 versus SRAM business, because, quite frankly, I don't know enough about what the SRAM would do for SAM. On the face of it, and being very basic about it, it seems to me the Z380 is more of a priority because of the speed increase, but as I said, I don't know enough about the SRAM to say either way (so don't go biting my head off Nev/Bob :) > Something must be released - and something that is going to make a > difference to the SAM. Even if we just let on that this project is in > the pipeline we might be able to keep hold of a couple of people who > would be interested. Agreed. > Bob, did you ever get in touch with "WCC" and ask if they'd fund the > SAMSon project? Either answer our WCC questions Bob, or put us in touch with someone who will. Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 13:45:41 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:42:05 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: A Question Of Stability Message-Id: <19970227134234Z49154-12132+1950@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 956 Lines: 28 Date: 1997-02-27 13:41 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:10:05 +0000 (GMT) >> What is to stop you from writing a different DOS and booting it up on a >> standard Sam? >> > >I can think of a few minor problems - firstly nearly all >discs have a copy of DOS on them, so if we had a new DOS >it would unlikely fit in the 10K or so taken up by SAMDOS2. >OK - that's a minor point. The other thing is: are there >any programs which use nearly all of the SAM's 512K and hence >wouldn't have room for a larger DOS? >Andy Yes. there are a few that won't even work when MasterBASIC is loaded. personally I think they are badly written cos they don't check if a page is free before writing into it. (now you're going to ask for their names. Thats a little harder). Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 13:54:53 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <12169.199702271346@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:46:54 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <8B132B5B36@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> from "Gavin Smith" at Feb 27, 97 01:45:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 600 Lines: 12 > Don't quite agree with this last statement - a 200 quid computer, > with built in BASIC, a few educational programs, a game or two and a > word processor still sounds quite a nice deal. Okay, probably not Only one problem with this... the Sam word processors are - well, crap, not to put too fine a point on it; virtually nobody uses the educational programs; which games would you use? If you put good ones then they don't have to buy them, if you put bad ones then people think twice about buying the machine. And as for BASIC ... let's face it, how many /home users/ program anymore? Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 13:54:53 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <12283.199702271347@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:47:39 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <19970227134234Z49154-12132+1950@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> from "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" at Feb 27, 97 08:42:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 218 Lines: 7 > personally I think they are badly written cos they don't check if a page is > free before writing into it. (now you're going to ask for their names. Thats Yes, that fits the definition of badly written... :) Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 13:54:53 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <12405.199702271348@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Awk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:48:37 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 227 Lines: 8 'scuse the off-topicness for a moment, but does anyone know how you get awk to add two string together? Along the lines of tstring = tstring + tstring2 would be good, but currently only gives me an integer... :( Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 13:54:54 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:49:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@fir.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability In-Reply-To: <19970227124955Z49174-12132+1942@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 659 Lines: 19 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, YOUNG Neville, IT Life wrote: > AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH > > Right thats it. > I'm not spending any more time on the SRAM. > Just use the Bruce's RAM/ROM board that we already have. > > (abandoning ship) *sighs* - I don't blame you mate. -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 13:54:55 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <12576.199702271350@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:49:39 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <856974139.10435.0@huggable.demon.co.uk> from "Stacey Witney" at Feb 26, 97 04:15:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 91 Lines: 6 > I think you'll get a lot more users if you don't say 'DOS. Eurgh!'. Seconded! :) Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:02:45 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <13302.199702271354@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:53:59 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970226071202_178090509@emout03.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 26, 97 07:12:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 686 Lines: 17 > It may interest you to know that I live just a few miles from one of the Not 'specially... (I don't live /that/ far from you anyway) > biggest monitoring sites in Europe. As far as can be known, GCHQ has advanced > programs which constantly monitor the Net. I understand there are more sites I begin to doubt that you understand how the net works. There aren't broadcast packets - they go straight to their destination, /maybe/ passing through some systems on the way. And for GCHQ to be able to monitor all these, they'd have to have programs on /every/ system. T'ain't feasible, either to do or to keep secret. Paul (who thinks that any replies should probably go via email.) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:02:46 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:55:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@fir.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM In-Reply-To: <8B132B5B36@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1372 Lines: 28 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Gavin Smith wrote: > As a mass market machine, I agree there is no future - but if the SAM can pick > up a few more users from the Samson (which I have to admit, I'm beginning to doubt > will ever materalise...), things can trundle along quite > nicely. I don't think any of us are keeping our SAMs because of the > software or hardware, but rather because we love the SAM and its > community. I use my SAM as a base for personal hardware/software projects. For this, the SAM is an IDEAL machine for me. It's easy to design for (mostly) and quite cheap to replace if I blow it up! The only problem I have with it is the speed for *some* projects. > >The Z380 Card was also a proposition, but this is > >obviously not going to happen because Bob believes the SRAM should > >come first. Fair enough, after all it is his money that is going to > >fund this whole project. If I read Nevs last email properly, this is no longer the problem.. :( -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:02:47 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <13712.199702271357@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:56:42 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Justin Skists" at Feb 27, 97 01:49:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 363 Lines: 9 > > (abandoning ship) > *sighs* - I don't blame you mate. It's a horrible thing, but I have a sneaking suspicion that things may have been more productive if a basic system (even if very basic) was available - at least then people wouldn't be able to get bogged down in arguments over which thing is technically superior, they'd just have to live with it. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:02:47 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:04:09 GMT Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <8B5DBD4612@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1117 Lines: 21 > > Don't quite agree with this last statement - a 200 quid computer, > > with built in BASIC, a few educational programs, a game or two and a > > word processor still sounds quite a nice deal. Okay, probably not > > Only one problem with this... the Sam word processors are - well, crap, not > to put too fine a point on it; virtually nobody uses the educational programs; > which games would you use? If you put good ones then they don't have to buy them, > if you put bad ones then people think twice about buying the machine. And as for > BASIC ... let's face it, how many /home users/ program anymore? > > Paul I was mainly referring to when WCC "bought" SAM when the computer market was a little different (a lot has changed in just the last few years). However, I still think its an attractive option (again, I'm saying not to the mass market) but to parents who read a little leaflet that says "Computer with disk drive, two games, wordprocessor (a fairly basic one would do), some educational programs (the four from Persona would do nicely) for 200 quid" and a few more could be sold. Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:14:47 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:10:34 GMT Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <8B78E07562@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 757 Lines: 16 > I begin to doubt that you understand how the net works. There aren't broadcast > packets - they go straight to their destination, /maybe/ passing through some > systems on the way. And for GCHQ to be able to monitor all these, they'd have > to have programs on /every/ system. T'ain't feasible, either to do or to keep > secret. > > Paul Samsboss has cunningly made us forget what the subject really was - i.e., would Samsboss' employers ever find out that he was on this list (never mind would they care or not). Have you actually *asked* them if you can be on a mailing list which discusses a little computer from the 1980's? :) You don't even have to say the name of this list, just tell them you were thinking about joining one or two. Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:14:47 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:13:38 GMT Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <8B85CF2789@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1047 Lines: 22 > On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Gavin Smith wrote: > > > As a mass market machine, I agree there is no future - but if the SAM can pick > > up a few more users from the Samson (which I have to admit, I'm beginning to doubt > > will ever materalise...), things can trundle along quite > > nicely. I don't think any of us are keeping our SAMs because of the > > software or hardware, but rather because we love the SAM and its > > community. Justin Skists wrote: > > I use my SAM as a base for personal hardware/software projects. For this, > the SAM is an IDEAL machine for me. It's easy to design for (mostly) and > quite cheap to replace if I blow it up! The only problem I have with it > is the speed for *some* projects. Yeah, this is the kind of thing I was talking about. Most of us have found little things we can do with our SAM that we either can't do on other computers or know how to do better on SAM - it was this kind of thing I was referring to when I said "love the SAM" (I wasn't talk about loving his little blue feet :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:14:48 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:11:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Tim Paveley To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Awk In-Reply-To: <12405.199702271348@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 855 Lines: 33 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Mr P R Walker wrote: > > > 'scuse the off-topicness for a moment, but does anyone know how you get awk to > add two string together? Along the lines of > tstring = tstring + tstring2 Well, this is from the gawk manual, probably works in awk, and if not, you'll probably have gawk floating around anyway. Operators The operators in AWK, in order of increasing precedence, are ... blank String concatenation. ... so I imagine tstring = tstring tstring2 would do it. I've not actually tested it, but I'm fairly confident it's correct. tsp ....@/ .........................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - http://dplinux.sund.ac.uk/~unc/ Staff of the Monochrome BBS - http://www.mono.org/ Owner of a Sam Coupe - http://www.mono.org/~unc/Coupe/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:25:39 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <16348.199702271416@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Awk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:16:17 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Tim Paveley" at Feb 27, 97 02:11:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 195 Lines: 10 > would do it. I've not actually tested it, but I'm fairly confident it's > correct. It is indeed - thanks very much :) Okay, now for the /rest/ of the thing... :( Apologies to all... Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:25:39 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:16:25 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Awk Message-Id: <19970227141647Z49154-12132+1955@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 561 Lines: 22 Date: 1997-02-27 14:15 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Mr P R Walker Subject: Awk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:48:37 +0000 (GMT) >'scuse the off-topicness for a moment, but does anyone know how you get awk to >add two string together? Along the lines of >tstring = tstring + tstring2 >would be good, but currently only gives me an integer... :( > >Paul I believe that a blank operator signifies concatination. tstring = tstring tstring1 Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:25:39 1997 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199702271444.OAA28906@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Z80 job To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no (sam users) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:44:54 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2310 Lines: 50 > > Agreed, but that would be a restrictive use of the Z380. The idea now is > > to make it an independent processor (with that ability to communicate > > with the internal SAM to start with). When it is up and running fully it > > will have its own access to the outside world via disc/hard drive ect, > > but in the early days SAM will act as a Master in some way and a Slave > > in others. SAM loades the program file from disc and passes it to the > > Z380 for execution, Z380 passes back the result to SAM (this would be > > the first mode, where the Z380 simply acts as a fast co-processor doing > > small jobs for SAM). Later when the Graphics board is ready the Z380 can > > run its own displays, eventually the SAM does less and less. > > > Bob. > > The Z80 should realy have a home in the final machine, even if it does > increase to cost of the 'finished SAMSON unit'. > > Keep it on as the intelegent keyboard it was intended to be. > It could handle running the 'KOS' to surply keyboard and cursor input > independently of the device used (will be expecially important if we keep > to the PC keyboard option). > > The current floppy and DMA devices are designed for connection to the Z80. > The DOS could well be a Z80 program, able to 'steal' memory from the main > system to handle file storage and retrieval. This will greatly benifit the > GUI environment. > > Numbly. > > One of the main reasons for multitasking operating systems in the first > place was to ensure the process is a buisy as possible, do we want an > application to take control whenever it wants to use the floppy? > > History lesson you all know already -to demonstrate the point... > > The 2nd generation of computers where characterised by the > connection of cheap(er) computers to handle and buffer the I/O devices, > saving the more expensive/faster processors from slowing down, worry > about I/O to the physical world. > > The 3rd generation of computers kept the (now single) processor buisy by > timesharing. > > Our SAMSON could be considered a whole new generation, if we combine > these 2 differeing views correctly 'The new 5th generation computer' > > Z80 - 'intelegent' keyboard/floppy/network/DMA-initiator; > Z380 - Main stuff; > RISK 'card - Graphics and sound Output. > > Numbly (again?) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:39:08 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:28:38 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970227092835_-1909166659@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 345 Lines: 15 In a message dated 26/02/97 09:07:04, you write: >. > >Any news from the show? > > -Frode Not much really, Colin M and Colin A turned up rather the worst for the night before, Ledbury hid away in the corner most of the day, lots of people were missing, Oh and some bugger stole several copies of FORMAT. In other words, a normal show. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:39:09 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:28:41 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970227092840_-1440522051@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 245 Lines: 12 In a message dated 26/02/97 12:09:17, you write: >> So the question is - where were you all? >> > >Erm playing a concert for the Port Sunlight Orchestral Society. > > Only a good excuse if you were using your SAM to make the music. :) Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 14:39:16 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:28:43 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970227092843_-1373537887@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Technical Manual Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 593 Lines: 17 In a message dated 26/02/97 12:40:01, you write: >> No, but if they are serious enough about their use of SAM that they want a >> Technical Manual, then FORMAT should be at the top of their list. > >Actually, if they're that serious, then Based On An Idea should be >top of their list. Format doesn't really cover all that much technical stuff, >you know. > >Paul For the average SAM user BOAI would be way over their head, and anyway as it only comes out every six months (no dig Simon, I'm not saying it in a bad way) it can hardly be compared to the monthly fix that FORMAT gives. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 15:53:01 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <20151.199702271445@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SAM Technical Manual To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:45:20 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970227092843_-1373537887@emout15.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 27, 97 09:28:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 478 Lines: 16 > For the average SAM user BOAI would be way over their head, and anyway as it Yes, but you're talking about someone who's looking for the Technical Manual - not the "average Sam user". > only comes out every six months (no dig Simon, I'm not saying it in a bad Good point :) > way) it can hardly be compared to the monthly fix that FORMAT gives. Well, no. It goes into far more detail, and is a lot more useful if you want to implement something that it's covered. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 15:53:01 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:48:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Technical Manual In-Reply-To: <970227092843_-1373537887@emout15.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 669 Lines: 17 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > For the average SAM user BOAI would be way over their head, and anyway as it No more so than the techy manual. Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Journalism is literature in a hurry | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | -fortune | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 15:53:02 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:48:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@fir.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM In-Reply-To: <8B85CF2789@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1154 Lines: 25 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Gavin Smith wrote: > Justin Skists wrote: > > > > I use my SAM as a base for personal hardware/software projects. For this, > > the SAM is an IDEAL machine for me. It's easy to design for (mostly) and > > quite cheap to replace if I blow it up! The only problem I have with it > > is the speed for *some* projects. > > Yeah, this is the kind of thing I was talking about. Most of us have > found little things we can do with our SAM that we either can't do on > other computers or know how to do better on SAM - it was this kind of > thing I was referring to when I said "love the SAM" (I wasn't talk > about loving his little blue feet :) Ah. I understood "love the SAM" as a reference to keeping it for nostalgic reasons.. -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 15:53:02 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:17:55 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Awk Message-Id: <19970227151953Z49193-12132+1969@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 575 Lines: 25 Date: 1997-02-27 14:59 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: Awk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:48:37 +0000 (GMT) >>'scuse the off-topicness for a moment, but does anyone know how you get awk to >>add two string together? Along the lines of >>tstring = tstring + tstring2 >>would be good, but currently only gives me an integer... :( >> >>Paul > >I believe that a blank operator signifies concatination. >tstring = tstring tstring1 > >Nev. good job samsboss didn't reply int it? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 15:53:03 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:42:37 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. In-reply-to: <13302.199702271354@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> References: <970226071202_178090509@emout03.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 26, 97 07:12:03 am X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1669 Lines: 47 > I begin to doubt that you understand how the net works. There aren't broadcast > packets - they go straight to their destination, /maybe/ passing through some > systems on the way. And for GCHQ to be able to monitor all these, they'd have > to have programs on /every/ system. T'ain't feasible, either to do or to keep > secret. Hmm.. Unless they're simply monitoring the phone network, and using their own systems, etc to read the signals sent over this. But I agree completely with you. No way someone could monitor everything. Just imagine them trying to get some monitoring program onto every server and ISP in the country. Can you imagine them frantically trying to install it onto every new ISP thats set up.. "Excuse me, Mr new Internet Service Provider... Can I install something on your new system?" "What?" "Never you mind. It's secret. It'll send information out every so often though, don't be alarmed about the connections it makes to various government computers." "No, you can't." "Oh, please..?" It's not going to happen. > Paul > (who thinks that any replies should probably go via email.) -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk (who disagrees. I'm finding this more interesting than the Tech Manual thread and I'm sick of the SRAM vs. Z380 board arguments.) "If you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now Quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers!" - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "If you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now Quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers!" - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 16:04:25 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis set sender to Relaxed using -f To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg References: <856974139.10435.0@huggable.demon.co.uk> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: unknown Date: 27 Feb 1997 15:41:21 +0000 In-Reply-To: Stacey Witney's message of Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:15:05 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 462 Lines: 14 Stacey Witney writes: > > I think you'll get a lot more users if you don't say 'DOS. Eurgh!'. > It's not my program so I don't get the "You'll have a lot more users" bit ;) Lee. -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 16:04:25 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis set sender to Relaxed using -f To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg References: <9702271154.AA22888@client28.comlab.ox.ac.uk> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: unknown Date: 27 Feb 1997 15:45:38 +0000 In-Reply-To: Ian Collier's message of Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:54:01 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1043 Lines: 25 Ian Collier writes: > > On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:33:47 +0000 (GMT), Dave said: > > The SAM is becoming > > increasingly rare anyway, why destroy its chances still further by only > > writing an emulator for an operating system that is rarely used in the > > market at which you are aiming? > > Who says he's aiming at a market? I'm sure he would write a DOS version if > he were selling it for money, but he isn't so it doesn't matter how many > people use DOS. > Who says I'm aiming at anything. It's Allan's program not mine ... I'll admit I'm wrong here, I underestimated the amount of people who were unfortunate enough to be lumbered with DOS, perhaps someone should petition Allan about this ... Lee. -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 16:04:25 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:53:56 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM In-reply-to: <8B85CF2789@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2030 Lines: 47 > > I use my SAM as a base for personal hardware/software projects. For this, > > the SAM is an IDEAL machine for me. It's easy to design for (mostly) and > > quite cheap to replace if I blow it up! The only problem I have with it > > is the speed for *some* projects. > > Yeah, this is the kind of thing I was talking about. Most of us have > found little things we can do with our SAM that we either can't do on > other computers or know how to do better on SAM - it was this kind of > thing I was referring to when I said "love the SAM" (I wasn't talk > about loving his little blue feet :) The SAM is just plain GOOD FUN! Sure, it's not massively powerful. But it's probably the most Fun machine to plug in and mess about with. PC's seem kind of.. I'm looking for a word here.. bland, characterless. The SAM is as I said GOOD FUN. It's partly due to being able to switch on and program without restrictions. It's partly beacuse you can tinker around with it and do all sorts of things, you've got more power than you have over most computers. But it's main unexplainable. It just IS good fun, with no specific reason. And It'll reach a point, where those people who've stuck with the Sam as long as they have, will never be likely to give it up. I know I won't, even if I buy a PC/MAC. I own a Playstation and an ST. I still use my SAM the most. It's fun. Coo. I've probably won the award for using the word FUN the most number of times in a message to this list. Better make sure. Fun, fun. Fun fun fun fun. Fun, fun and fun. Fun, fun, fun. More fun. Better go because this is getting stupid -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "If you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now Quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers!"- Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. fun. How come however seriously I start a message, it gets stupid? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 16:04:26 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis set sender to Relaxed using -f To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. References: <970227092840_-1440522051@emout13.mail.aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: unknown Date: 27 Feb 1997 15:52:43 +0000 In-Reply-To: BrenchleyR@aol.com's message of Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:28:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 732 Lines: 22 BrenchleyR@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 26/02/97 12:09:17, you write: > > >> So the question is - where were you all? > >> > > > >Erm playing a concert for the Port Sunlight Orchestral Society. > > > > > > Only a good excuse if you were using your SAM to make the music. :) > Hmm, not this time. haven't done that since I stopped doing menu's for FRED. Speaking of which are they any short 'coz I might do one again soon. I feel the urge to write mnemonics again .... -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 16:04:26 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:58:01 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: BOAI In-reply-to: <970227092843_-1373537887@emout15.mail.aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 643 Lines: 18 > For the average SAM user BOAI would be way over their head, and anyway as it > only comes out every six months (no dig Simon, I'm not saying it in a bad > way) it can hardly be compared to the monthly fix that FORMAT gives. > > Bob. BOAI may be my favourite SAM magazine at the moment. (and you can quote me on that.) And you still owe me a free Issue 3, Simon. Where is it, eh? Unfinished..? ah. (I'll subscribe from issue 4.) -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "If you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now Quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers!" - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 16:23:55 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:34:45 GMT Subject: American WCC! X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <8CDF8E7AEC@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 299 Lines: 9 The credit for this one goes to Paul Walker, who found this page - http://www.websystem.com/westcoast Take a little look and then ask yourself this - could our WCC sue them? *grins* Or would it be the other way round...(even though our WCC came first, maybe they have it copyrighted...) Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 17:00:00 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:33:38 GMT Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <8CDAA10B69@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 781 Lines: 14 > > Yeah, this is the kind of thing I was talking about. Most of us have > > found little things we can do with our SAM that we either can't do on > > other computers or know how to do better on SAM - it was this kind of > > thing I was referring to when I said "love the SAM" (I wasn't talk > > about loving his little blue feet :) > > Ah. I understood "love the SAM" as a reference to keeping it for > nostalgic reasons.. > ============================================================================= > |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | Yeah, well there's certainly that too :) Speaking of nostalgia (and this off topic) anyone got an Acorn Electron (or even an Atom) for sale?? I'd love to have one of those again! *sobs* From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 17:00:00 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:27:43 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Concern For The SAM Message-Id: <19970227162934Z49212-12132+1978@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 286 Lines: 13 Date: 1997-02-27 16:26 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "James R Curry" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > How come however seriously I start a message, it gets stupid? It's just the way you are. ;-) Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 17:00:00 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:30:58 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: BOAI Message-Id: <19970227163322Z49216-12132+1979@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 778 Lines: 28 Date: 1997-02-27 16:28 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "James R Curry" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:58:01 GMT Subject: BOAI >> For the average SAM user BOAI would be way over their head, and anyway as it >> only comes out every six months (no dig Simon, I'm not saying it in a bad >> way) it can hardly be compared to the monthly fix that FORMAT gives. >> >> Bob. > >BOAI may be my favourite SAM magazine at the moment. (and you can >quote me on that.) > >And you still owe me a free Issue 3, Simon. Where is it, eh? >Unfinished..? ah. (I'll subscribe from issue 4.) Huh. I've /paid/ for 4 em] (nb. Gavin, You've got all this to come. Buy an asbestos suit %-) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 17:00:01 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:31:25 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Missed you at Wetherby. Message-Id: <19970227163353Z49222-12132+1981@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 307 Lines: 13 Date: 1997-02-27 16:30 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: unknown Date: 27 Feb 1997 15:52:43 +0000 > I feel the urge to write mnemonics again .... Sorry I don't seem able to remember what thay word means. ::=) Nev From imc Thu Feb 27 17:29:56 1997 Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:29:56 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "unknown" at Feb 27, 97 03:45:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 731 Lines: 17 On 27 Feb 1997 15:45:38 +0000, unknown said: > Ian Collier writes: > > On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:33:47 +0000 (GMT), Dave said: > > > The SAM is becoming > > > increasingly rare anyway, why destroy its chances still further by only > > > writing an emulator for an operating system that is rarely used in the > > > market at which you are aiming? > > Who says he's aiming at a market? I'm sure he would write a DOS version if > > he were selling it for money, but he isn't so it doesn't matter how many > > people use DOS. > Who says I'm aiming at anything. It's Allan's program not mine ... Where is your name mentioned in the above message? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 17:31:48 1997 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:04:05 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM - Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 600 Lines: 16 > Yeah, well there's certainly that too :) Speaking of nostalgia (and > this off topic) anyone got an Acorn Electron (or even an Atom) for > sale?? I'd love to have one of those again! *sobs* *Every* jumble/car boot sale I've ever been to has always had an Acorn Electron in a carrier bag with no power supply :) Personally, I like using my coupe because it's simple. I like the fact that I can just stick a disc in and go. Mind you, these days I don't get much time on it anymore, I have *still* got stuff from '96 that is unfinished - and all I need to do for that is the scrolly :) Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 17:31:48 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:19:16 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@aether.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 614 Lines: 14 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, James R Curry wrote: > James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk James. Can I quote all that in my web site under reasons for getting a SAM? my version says the same but not quite as cheery.. :) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From imc Thu Feb 27 17:41:36 1997 Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:41:36 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Doore" at Feb 27, 97 05:04:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 273 Lines: 7 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:04:05 +0000, Dan Doore said: > Mind you, these days I don't get much time on it anymore, I have *still* got stuff > from '96 that is unfinished - and all I need to do for that is the scrolly :) I've got stuff from *8*6 that is unfinished. :-) imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 18:10:04 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:55:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@aether.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM - Reply In-Reply-To: <9702271741.AA04882@thom1.comlab.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 913 Lines: 19 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Ian Collier wrote: > On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:04:05 +0000, Dan Doore said: > > Mind you, these days I don't get much time on it anymore, I have *still* got stuff > > from '96 that is unfinished - and all I need to do for that is the scrolly :) > > I've got stuff from *8*6 that is unfinished. :-) I don't think I actually have anything that *IS* finished... I'm one of these people who gives himself a challenge, work it out and then go "Excellent.. I can get that part working.. New project!" -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 18:36:22 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:21:38 GMT Message-Id: <199702271821.SAA02601@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1228 Lines: 35 On Feb 27, 1997 11:56:40, 'Ian Collier ' wrote: >On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:50:58 GMT, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com said: >> Twood appear that lots of you is still at uni, where UNIX and the like seem >> to rule. Just wait until you get out into the _real_ world. If you are >> lucky you get DOS, if you are unlucky yous gets Windows or OS2, but if you >> have been very bad in your past lives - you get 95! > >Fortunately, my job is with Unix and will be for some time (unless I branch >out into OS/2, but that's another matter and is unlikely). > >However, if I were in a job in which I was forced to use W95 then I doubt I >would want to install SimCoupe anyway because the machine would belong to my >employer and I might be expected to do some work on it. On the other hand I >would have a machine of my own running Linux and I might install it on that. But most home users have either 3.1 or 95, do you ever see a machine in Dixons being sold with UNIX? No, because the vast majority of home and business users don't use UNIX. True, you would not put SimCoupe on your machine at work - but you would on your home machine wouldn't you? > >imc -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 18:36:26 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:21:33 GMT Message-Id: <199702271821.SAA02574@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 828 Lines: 29 On Feb 27, 1997 12:03:16, 'Ian Collier ' wrote: >On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:11:36 -0500 (EST), BrenchleyR@aol.com said: >> The SRAM is needed to make the ROM soft, so that it and the DOS can be >fixed. >> There is no room to fix the DOS until the ROM fixes are moved to where they >> should be - in the ROM image. > >What are you wittering on about? The ROM bugs have nothing to do with the >DOS, and even if they were then a simple EPROM could fix the important ones >without the use of an SRAM board. Well according to Nev a lot of them are down to /undocumented features/ in the ROM. > >What is to stop you from writing a different DOS and booting it up on a >standard Sam? Nothing, PRO-DOS has been done, why not sumit else as well. > >imc -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 18:36:29 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:21:29 GMT Message-Id: <199702271821.SAA02552@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1122 Lines: 37 On Feb 27, 1997 13:46:54, 'Mr P R Walker ' wrote: > >> Don't quite agree with this last statement - a 200 quid computer, >> with built in BASIC, a few educational programs, a game or two and a >> word processor still sounds quite a nice deal. Okay, probably not > >Only one problem with this... the Sam word processors are - well, crap, not >to put too fine a point on it; They could be better, the top two (Secretary and Outwrite) are now showing their age. But what should be added to bring them up to day? >virtually nobody uses the educational programs; True, it has not been written by a teacher for a computer in use by teachers, the we can forget education - except maybe adult education? >which games would you use? If you put good ones then they don't have to buy >them, >if you put bad ones then people think twice about buying the machine. Very good point. >And as >for >BASIC ... let's face it, how many /home users/ program anymore? Lots would, if they could, and SAM is a good machine to learn on. > >Paul -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 18:36:33 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:21:43 GMT Message-Id: <199702271821.SAA02631@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 196 Lines: 11 On Feb 27, 1997 00:36:38, 'Andrew Collier ' wrote: >And people pay this guy for computing advice?! > >Andrew Yep! Nice isn't it? -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 19:24:40 1997 Message-ID: <3315DB57.1EB4A198@rmnet.it> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:07:03 +0100 From: "A.D.R." Organization: Home (work is: arne@tol.it) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg References: <199702262050.UAA17881@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 946 Lines: 24 Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > > >Nope, I think most of us use X or Linux, _you_ want DOS. Eurgh! > > > >-- > Twood appear that lots of you is still at uni, where UNIX and the like seem > to rule. Just wait until you get out into the _real_ world. If you are > lucky you get DOS, if you are unlucky yous gets Windows or OS2, but if you > have been very bad in your past lives - you get 95! > -- > > Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com Well maybe I'm lucky but where I work they gave me a personal Sun Sparc5 workstation (and it's NOT at university) and SimCoupe runs fine on it. Anyway it runs even better with Linux on my PC at home... ;-) _ (_ i a o, Arne %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%( Arne Di Russo )%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% | Roma, Italy (EU) ar@rmnet.it - arne@tol.it - ar@digiserve.com | %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% \....................> powered by LINUX 2.0 <........................./ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 23:45:31 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 23:43:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@puce.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg In-Reply-To: <199702271821.SAA02601@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1390 Lines: 29 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > But most home users have either 3.1 or 95, do you ever see a machine in > Dixons being sold with UNIX? No, because the vast majority of home and > business users don't use UNIX. True, you would not put SimCoupe on your > machine at work - but you would on your home machine wouldn't you? That's hardly the point; machines are sold with '95 because that is the market leader, not because it is the superior system (indeed the two are hardly ever the same, look at VHS/Betamax for a start). And even though the system is sold with a particular set-up, you can always change it if you want to. Anyway, this is getting off-topic. If Allan wants to write for X11, then it is his prerogative to do so, and I can perfectly understand why he does. Besides, the boot/root installation will run on any PC, so what is your problem? Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Journalism is literature in a hurry | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | -fortune | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 08:04:15 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 03:02:16 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: CMS Note Message-Id: <19970228080227Z49164-12132+2056@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 704 Lines: 26 Date: 1997-02-28 08:01 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Justin Skists To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM - Reply >On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Ian Collier wrote: > >> On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:04:05 +0000, Dan Doore said: >> > Mind you, these days I don't get much time on it anymore, I have *still* >got >> > from '96 that is unfinished - and all I need to do for that is the scrolly >> >> I've got stuff from *8*6 that is unfinished. :-) > >I don't think I actually have anything that *IS* finished... Now we know why the samson project isn't going anywhere. Nobody finishes anything. Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 10:50:53 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 10:41:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Dave To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM In-Reply-To: <8B5DBD4612@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1549 Lines: 33 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Gavin Smith wrote: > > > Don't quite agree with this last statement - a 200 quid computer, > > > with built in BASIC, a few educational programs, a game or two and a > > > word processor still sounds quite a nice deal. Okay, probably not > > > > Only one problem with this... the Sam word processors are - well, crap, not > > to put too fine a point on it; virtually nobody uses the educational programs; > > which games would you use? If you put good ones then they don't have to buy them, > > if you put bad ones then people think twice about buying the machine. And as for > > BASIC ... let's face it, how many /home users/ program anymore? > > > > Paul > > I was mainly referring to when WCC "bought" SAM when the computer > market was a little different (a lot has changed in just the last few > years). However, I still think its an attractive option (again, I'm > saying not to the mass market) but to parents who read a little > leaflet that says "Computer with disk drive, two games, wordprocessor (a fairly > basic one would do), some educational programs (the four from Persona > would do nicely) for 200 quid" and a few more could be sold. > > Gavin > Am I the only one who feels that 200 quid is a ludicrously high price? For that you could get a second hand 8 meg 386 with SVGA, Windows 3.1 and Word 2. Admittedly, not the most up to date machine, but certainly capable of running a widely used word processor, meaning that your files can also be used elsewhere - plus it's upgradeable. D.F. From imc Fri Feb 28 12:00:38 1997 Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:00:38 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199702271821.SAA02601@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Feb 27, 97 06:21:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1451 Lines: 29 On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:21:38 GMT, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com said: > >On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:50:58 GMT, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com said: > >> Twood appear that lots of you is still at uni, where UNIX and the like > seem > >> to rule. Just wait until you get out into the _real_ world. If you are > >> lucky you get DOS, if you are unlucky yous gets Windows or OS2, but if > you > >> have been very bad in your past lives - you get 95! > > On the other hand > I > >would have a machine of my own running Linux and I might install it on > that. > But most home users have either 3.1 or 95, do you ever see a machine in > Dixons being sold with UNIX? No, because the vast majority of home and > business users don't use UNIX. True, you would not put SimCoupe on your > machine at work - but you would on your home machine wouldn't you? On my home machine I would - because my home machine would run Linux. And anyone else who has used Unix at uni and thinks it is a good system would probably do likewise. See the top quoted paragraph. You are implying that someone will be forced to stop using Unix and run DOSS or Windoze, but it just isn't true because they can install any system they like on their home machines. The fact that "most people" just buy a machine from Dixons with W95 on it doesn't mean that we can't run Linux. "Most people" haven't heard of Simcoupe either. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 12:31:06 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <9191.199702281211@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:11:10 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199702271821.SAA02552@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Feb 27, 97 06:21:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 560 Lines: 15 > > They could be better, the top two (Secretary and Outwrite) are now showing > their age. But what should be added to bring them up to day? Decent keyboard scanning would be favourite, plus different fonts, print preview... basically some of the stuff I use most often in Word. (Headers, templates, styles, etc.) > >BASIC ... let's face it, how many /home users/ program anymore? > Lots would, if they could, and SAM is a good machine to learn on. Sam /is/ a good machine to learn on, but I very much doubt that people want to program anymore. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 13:05:27 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 07:37:06 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970228073704_-1741641003@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 360 Lines: 11 In a message dated 26/02/97 18:10:47, you write: >It is legal to use encryption that the government cannot de-encrypt. Take >PGP for example. It is 100% legal to use this in the UK - and the >government cannot crack it. That was what the Germans thought in WW2. If they did not know how to crack it, you can bet you would not be allowed to use it. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 13:05:27 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 07:37:21 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970228073718_-1373447439@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 854 Lines: 22 In a message dated 27/02/97 13:50:03, you write: >> Don't quite agree with this last statement - a 200 quid computer, >> with built in BASIC, a few educational programs, a game or two and a >> word processor still sounds quite a nice deal. Okay, probably not > >Only one problem with this... the Sam word processors are - well, crap, not >to put too fine a point on it; virtually nobody uses the educational >programs; >which games would you use? If you put good ones then they don't have to buy >them, >if you put bad ones then people think twice about buying the machine. And as >for >BASIC ... let's face it, how many /home users/ program anymore? > >Paul Very small percentage program /now/ because the PC is so unfriendly to programmers. However, even if the percentage is small the numbers may be quite large and well worth aiming for. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 13:05:33 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 07:37:14 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970228073713_-1607686090@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 531 Lines: 18 In a message dated 27/02/97 00:36:09, you write: >I'm sorry Bob, I didn't realise we had to answer to you. Seriously though, >I didn't expect it would be worth a considerable chunk of time and money >to attend that show (right in the middle of term, and probably at least >40UKP train fare), though I do hope to go to Gloucester. > >> To those of you that did turn up, well done and thank you. >> >> Bob. > > >Andrew Oh well, if you are coming to Gloucester (with a nice big wallet full of money) then I will forgive :) Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 13:05:34 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 07:37:16 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970228073715_-1540926794@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 834 Lines: 23 In a message dated 27/02/97 13:18:47, you write: >> What is to stop you from writing a different DOS and booting it up on a >> standard Sam? >> > >I can think of a few minor problems - firstly nearly all >discs have a copy of DOS on them, so if we had a new DOS >it would unlikely fit in the 10K or so taken up by SAMDOS2. >OK - that's a minor point. The other thing is: are there >any programs which use nearly all of the SAM's 512K and hence >wouldn't have room for a larger DOS? >Andy Very much so Andy. If the disc is protected then there is no point in trying to run it under the SRAM system, you just disable it, press reset and you are back to the built-in ROM. And yes, there are several programs that already use the bulk of the 512K RAM. Several will not allow MasterBasic to be in memory (SAMPaint for example). Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 14:00:33 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:37:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Dave To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply In-Reply-To: <970228073704_-1741641003@emout09.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1055 Lines: 28 No, the UK government aren't bothered since most people who have any sense send confidential information some other way. The US on the other hand don't allow it to be used, you have to use a special (ie edited) version. PGP is uncrackable, since the system that it uses takes roughly 4.5Billion years for a Cray2 to decipher without the key. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Fulton (D.A.Fulton@durham.ac.uk) Trevelyan College, University of Durham. PGP public key available on request. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 26/02/97 18:10:47, you write: > > >It is legal to use encryption that the government cannot de-encrypt. Take > >PGP for example. It is 100% legal to use this in the UK - and the > >government cannot crack it. > > That was what the Germans thought in WW2. > If they did not know how to crack it, you can bet you would not be allowed to > use it. > > Bob. > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 15:19:20 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <13867.199702281358@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:58:54 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970228073718_-1373447439@emout15.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 28, 97 07:37:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 383 Lines: 11 > Very small percentage program /now/ because the PC is so unfriendly to Actually, the PC is /very/ friendly to programmers - you've got excellent packages such as Borland/Turbo C / C++ / Pascal, Turbo Assembler, Turbo Debugger, etc. The reason people don't program is because they have no interest in it - most people now just want to turn it on and play the latest games. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 15:19:21 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <14049.199702281400@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 14:00:26 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970228073704_-1741641003@emout09.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 28, 97 07:37:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 319 Lines: 9 > If they did not know how to crack it, you can bet you would not be allowed to > use it. Bob, we're off topic - but it's very likely that they /can't/ crack it. DES has gone, but RSA is still strong - and is likely to remain so, barring some major development in prime-factoring techniques or computing power. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 15:19:21 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: dcsun4.comp.brad.ac.uk: lwillis set sender to Relaxed using -f To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply References: X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: unknown Date: 28 Feb 1997 14:05:22 +0000 In-Reply-To: Dave's message of Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:37:55 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 767 Lines: 19 Dave writes: > > No, the UK government aren't bothered since most people who have any sense > send confidential information some other way. The US on the other hand > don't allow it to be used, you have to use a special (ie edited) version. > It is the same algorithm but there is a limit on the bit length of the key that can be used. The US Government place a 32-bit limit on the key 'coz they say that that is reasonably secure, outside the US any length key can be used. {I Think!} -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 15:19:22 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:16:38 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9702281416.AA12609@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 618 Lines: 13 > No, the UK government aren't bothered since most people who have any sense > send confidential information some other way. The US on the other hand > don't allow it to be used, you have to use a special (ie edited) version. > > PGP is uncrackable, since the system that it uses takes roughly 4.5Billion > years for a Cray2 to decipher without the key. It's crackability depends on the number of bits you use for encryption (and hence decryption). And Cray2 is not the hottest thing around anymore. I think a German guy cracked a 64 bit PGP encryption in 7 days using 21 computers or something like that. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 15:53:26 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:12:35 GMT Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 646 Lines: 15 > > Very small percentage program /now/ because the PC is so unfriendly to > > Actually, the PC is /very/ friendly to programmers - you've got excellent > packages such as Borland/Turbo C / C++ / Pascal, Turbo Assembler, Turbo > Debugger, etc. > > The reason people don't program is because they have no interest in it - most > people now just want to turn it on and play the latest games. > > Paul Agreed. But my point was, that although SAM can't be a mass market machine, it can find little niches here and there, its very nice built in BASIC being an attractive option to someone who isn't interested in the latest hyped up processor. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 15:53:26 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <3790.199702281517@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:17:37 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9702281416.AA12609@asmal.edh-net> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Feb 28, 97 03:16:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 220 Lines: 8 > anymore. I think a German guy cracked a 64 bit PGP encryption in 7 > days using 21 computers or something like that. Something similar to that - but considering that most people use 1024 bit RSA keys... Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 15:53:27 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <3852.199702281518@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:18:14 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "unknown" at Feb 28, 97 02:05:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 302 Lines: 8 > key that can be used. The US Government place a 32-bit limit on the > key 'coz they say that that is reasonably secure, outside the US any > length key can be used. Sounds about right ... I know that you can use any length key you like with PGP 2.6.3.i, but I don't know about the US version. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 15:53:35 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <4154.199702281520@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HERE. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:20:47 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199702271821.SAA02631@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Feb 27, 97 06:21:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 119 Lines: 6 > >And people pay this guy for computing advice?! > Yep! Nice isn't it? Surprising, more than anything else. Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 15:56:04 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <4102.199702281520@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:20:18 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Collier" at Feb 27, 97 11:43:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 311 Lines: 9 > Besides, the boot/root installation will run on any PC, so what is your > problem? My problem is that it /won't/ run any "any PC" - it needs a minimum of 8Meg RAM and a 486 to do so. I can run many DOS programs perfectly happily with what I have... Plus, it would be /nice/ to have a DOS version. :) Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 16:29:59 1997 From: Mr P R Walker Message-Id: <8328.199702281559@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:59:16 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Gavin Smith" at Feb 28, 97 03:12:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 399 Lines: 12 > machine, it can find little niches here and there, its very nice > built in BASIC being an attractive option to someone who isn't > interested in the latest hyped up processor. Agreed - it was Bob that I was replying to... :) Don't suppose anyone has a computer system I could telnet onto and use ftp from, please? Our DNS, usenet, and various other things are up the creek. >:( Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 16:29:59 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 11:02:31 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970228110230_446483052@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1395 Lines: 37 In a message dated 27/02/97 23:47:47, you write: >On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >> But most home users have either 3.1 or 95, do you ever see a machine in >> Dixons being sold with UNIX? No, because the vast majority of home and >> business users don't use UNIX. True, you would not put SimCoupe on your >> machine at work - but you would on your home machine wouldn't you? > >That's hardly the point; machines are sold with '95 because that is the >market leader, not because it is the superior system (indeed the two are >hardly ever the same, look at VHS/Betamax for a start). Oh that is so true, Betamax was far better (and still would be if I could get mine repaired). >And even though >the system is sold with a particular set-up, you can always change it if >you want to. Not quite true, The Bill Gates Empire is now trying to prevent us from getting DOS and Win 3.x to go onto new machines and the only versions available through the likes of PC World are upgrade versions which will not upgrade a Win'95 system. > >Anyway, this is getting off-topic. If Allan wants to write for X11, then >it is his prerogative to do so, and I can perfectly understand why he does. >Besides, the boot/root installation will run on any PC, so what is your >problem? Sorry, did not understand that last bit, could you email me a more detailed explanation? > > >Andrew From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 17:01:54 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:43:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@navy.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. In-Reply-To: <970228073713_-1607686090@emout11.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 856 Lines: 24 On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > Oh well, if you are coming to Gloucester (with a nice big wallet full of > money) then I will forgive :) > > Bob. Can't guarantee the money.... But spend it on what? I really can't afford any hardware, but I've already bought (very nearly) all the software - the FRED and Revelation ones anyway. Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Journalism is literature in a hurry | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | -fortune | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 17:33:49 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:06:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@navy.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe at nvg In-Reply-To: <970228110230_446483052@emout07.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1880 Lines: 43 On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > >And even though > >the system is sold with a particular set-up, you can always change it if > >you want to. > > Not quite true, The Bill Gates Empire is now trying to prevent us from > getting DOS and Win 3.x to go onto new machines and the only versions > available through the likes of PC World are upgrade versions which will not > upgrade a Win'95 system. Well, yes, but the mail was talking about upgrading to Linux. There's nothing that Micro$oftcan do about that.... Anyway, why has no-one mentioned Windows NT yet? :) > >Anyway, this is getting off-topic. If Allan wants to write for X11, then > >it is his prerogative to do so, and I can perfectly understand why he does. > >Besides, the boot/root installation will run on any PC, so what is your > >problem? > > Sorry, did not understand that last bit, could you email me a more detailed > explanation? All the code necessary to run SimCoupe will fit onto two 1.44M floppies, so instead of booting from your hard disk, you can boot from one of those instead. It doesn't matter what you normally run. You can get the files from Allan's website; there's a link to it from mine. And yes Paul, I suppose instead I shouln't have said "any PC", make that "any PC with a spec. more up to date than asc25.sel" (Why do you think my webpage resides on brain?) Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Journalism is literature in a hurry | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | -fortune | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From imc Fri Feb 28 18:51:03 1997 Subject: Re: Missed you at Wetherby. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:51:03 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970225123047_1148267184@emout06.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Feb 25, 97 12:30:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 133 Lines: 6 On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:30:50 -0500 (EST), BrenchleyR@aol.com said: > Come on then, where were you all? Erm... dahn sahf. :-) imc From imc Fri Feb 28 19:41:31 1997 Subject: Re: A Question Of Stability To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:41:31 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9702241013.AA06562@asmal.edh-net> from "Frode Tenneboe" at Feb 24, 97 11:13:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 262 Lines: 9 On Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:13:24 +0100, Frode Tenneboe said: > GDOS is only 6.5K object code. I have reverse engineered more than that. So have I. The +3 ROMs, for a start. :-) [Not including the +3DOS, and only including the changed bits of the 48K one] imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Feb 28 20:55:13 1997 Message-ID: <33174528.572B@ndirect.co.uk> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:50:48 +0000 From: Neville Young X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Concern For The SAM References: <8B85CF2789@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 291 Lines: 11 Gavin Smith wrote: > > other computers or know how to do better on SAM - it was this kind of > thing I was referring to when I said "love the SAM" (I wasn't talk > about loving his little blue feet :) Bu V gubhtug lbh zrag lbh unq lbhe qvfx fghpx va gur qvfx qevir. Nev.