From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 8 22:22:30 1998 From: SparkY To: sam-users Subject: Re: Who has contributed most. Was RE: Floppy Disks. Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:18:47 -0000 Message-Id: <01bd4ae0$2a36b500$2a14a8c2@sparky> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 922 Lines: 24 -----Original Message----- From: Samsboss >Come on Gavin, play fair for once in your life, just compare what >Andrew has done for the SAM world with what Bob has done. Why not sit >down and make a list and then post it here so we can all compare. If you ask me (and you did), Bob has done a lot more damage than good in the SAM world, and most of us know what. >And while you are at it, list what you have done as well, then we can >all have a good laugh. Oh, here's Mr. Maturity again. Listen, I may not have the coding skills that some people on this list have, but I support the computer, by spending money on it - I've spent a fortune on it, I buy nearly everything that comes out. I don't pretend to be what I'm not. Okay, to sink to your level, what have you done? Gavin PS If this is some stupid attempt at starting a flame war Bob, don't - flame me in private as you usually do. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 8 22:37:44 1998 Message-ID: <35023B30.5578@postmaster.co.uk> Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 22:31:12 -0800 From: David Ledbury Organization: The Foundation for Green Eggs & Ham X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SAM-Users Mailing List Subject: Books! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 140 Lines: 6 Quick question? Anyone got any copies of the Complete Speccy Rom Disassembly - Programming the Z80 - or any similar books for sale? David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 8 22:56:36 1998 Message-Id: <199803082252.XAA29312@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: Who has contributed most. Was RE: Floppy Disks. Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:53:51 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1107 Lines: 31 ---------- > Van: Samsboss > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Who has contributed most. Was RE: Floppy Disks. > Datum: Sunday, March 08, 1998 9:03 > Respect? For Andrew Collier? What has he done to earn anyones respect? > Come on Gavin, play fair for once in your life, just compare what > Andrew has done for the SAM world with what Bob has done. Why not sit > down and make a list and then post it here so we can all compare. Than the Question is quite simple and I return him to you, what have you done for the Sam? On the other hand, don't answer this one. I don't want to know and before we know it becomes a game of I have done more than you did so you are just rubbish, have to shut your mouth and sit up straight while i slap you around the face for doing not enough for the Sam. > And while you are at it, list what you have done as well, then we can > all have a good laugh. That means you can have a good laugh :( childish behaviour -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] The borderline Express will terminate at this station :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 00:26:12 1998 Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:22:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803090022.TAA02482@smtp2.erols.com> X-Mailer: HandStamp Pro 1.0 Subject: Anonymous Users Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 982 Lines: 19 Okay, I've just about had enough of this. Who is Samsboss? Can Bill Ritman prove that they exist? The only thing that Bob, Bill and Samsboss have proved on this list so far is that they are opinionated, unknowledgeable fuckwits*. The list has gone to pot. People are dropping like flies from the SAM world. I don't even know if I should bother doing any more work on this C compiler because of this. I've spent 210 pounds on it so far over the last few days**. It ain't worth it. So shit or get off the pot. Prove who you are, SB and BR, or please fuck off somewhere else. simon * USENET definition: someone who holds their opinion as fact erroneously, and continues to do so after being proved wrong. ** in terms of books I've bought to research it, and my hourly rate. My personal rate, that is, not what I charge for consultancy, which would come to about 940 quid. --- This message scribbled for you by hand on a Palmpilot. Please excuse brevity and spelling mistakes. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 00:54:10 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 00:48:10 GMT Message-ID: <35032daf.1009888@mail.enterprise.net> References: <3502f831.30799852@mail.enterprise.net> In-Reply-To: <3502f831.30799852@mail.enterprise.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2313 Lines: 51 On Sun, 08 Mar 1998 20:03:38 GMT, you wrote: >I can see a lot of what you say, and agree with it. As long as we can >keep clear of anything that will just make us another PC clone. >> >>Bur that's just the opinion of a non-hardware and non-programmer >>end-user kinda bloke.. so I guess it'll count as nothing. > >Zero, zilch, nought, f'all. But at least you said it. If you agreed with a lot of it, then your own views on the subj must be as insignificant as mine. :) It'll never happen anyway. They're full of good ideas, but there's no money (I agree Bill - or was it Gavin?), and even if it gets any further than it has already done by the turn of the millenium, it'll be something that about only half a dozen people really want. They can't even decide on what to do first. They are no nearer than they were a year ago. By the time they've stopped arguing it'll be forgotten about, and they'll be wondering WTF they ever wanted. What would we want a new computer (that is related to SAM) do that it can't already do at the moment? Are we talking about games? If we are, and they're on about using outdated processors, then what kind of crap games can we expect - substandard Atari ST/Amiga 500 lookalikes? They'll never make the shops and you'd need to be some kind of retarded masochist to drool over and order any resulting shite via a mail order list. Building onto the existing SAM is a waste of time. It's eight years old f'christsakes. None of the existing applications are acceptable by todays standards. What've we got? The Secretary, Outwrite, Campion, that well-meaning DTP effort by Steve - stuff that's all yonks old. The GUI is a waste of time and all the improvements that its author wanted to implement were killed dead by the publisher . It can only emulate a pretty crap version of C/PM or a 48K Spectrum. I could carry on all night. 1989 -a great computer if you were skint, couldn't afford to buy an ST or an A500 and still believed that British was okay. The BASIC was brill and it let a lot of us pretend that we could do things. 1998 and erm... well.... long live SIM Coupe! I've had it with all this. It's getting like some nonsensical reoccurring dream. Wake me up when it's over. Bye, Dave Whitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/INDEX.HTM From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 00:54:10 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 00:49:41 GMT Message-ID: <35043c8f.4818379@mail.enterprise.net> References: <199803090022.TAA02482@smtp2.erols.com> In-Reply-To: <199803090022.TAA02482@smtp2.erols.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 254 Lines: 14 On Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:22:38 -0500 (EST), you wrote: >Okay, I've just about had enough of this. > >Who is Samsboss? >Can Bill Ritman prove that they exist? I'm past caring. :( Bye, Dave Whitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/INDEX.HTM From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 08:51:03 1998 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:43:26 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9803090843.AA22807@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Floppy Disks X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 790 Lines: 18 > The problem is that different disc formats need to be checked, that means that > the checking routine would have to be extended every time a new format was to > be included. Better I think to leave that to the human in charge. If you leave it to the human in charge, you are bound to get in trouble. As a system administrator, my oppinion on the average user has diminished. I've seen people trying to get a disc into the CD slot. If they can, they will. [Murphy adendum] > > If you make these sort of things tooooo intelligent it will just take up too > much space and too much time. The time from the disc is inserted to the user is ready to do something with it is usually substantial on a CPU-cycle basis. The error handling code will most likely take up far more space. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 09:53:45 1998 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:48:45 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9803090948.AA23004@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Floppy Disks X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 929 Lines: 26 > >The device is the disc drive. The format of the media should not be > >a part of the device specifier. What would be what if you eg. have one > >MS-DOS disc and one MS-DOS ZIP-drive? > > I don't have the answer for everything :) > > However, I'm looking at it as a logical device rather than the hardware. Each > logical device just needs a set of drivers. Trouble is that the logical 'environment' of the device is a property of the device itself. If you start messing with this idea, it will not be user friendly. You don't need different shoes to drive different makes of cars. Of course, you could implement a device specification which is more friendly towards 'logical' devices. DEVICE D1N - native SAM disc (or just D1) DEVICE D1M - msdos disc DEVICE D1C - cp/m disc. DEVICE D1R - raw disc ? You will eventually run out of letters. What about MAC-OS? However, this is cumbersome. I'd go for autodetect. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 10:17:28 1998 Illegal-Object: Syntax error in Message-Id: value found on sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no: Message-Id: ^-Extraneous program text From: Dan Doore Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:13:29 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Function Pointers MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-Id: <19980309101406Z49290-28688+303@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Status: RO Content-Length: 499 Lines: 23 > A simple (and slow to execute) output version could be up and running soon - > with the provisos: no floating point > most libraries probably missing. You mean Sam C will be released again? :) But less of that, although I'm not a hard-core C programmer I will certainly help out in any way possible, testing malarky and such. Dan. Work: dan@bacg.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ Sam Users Web Ring: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/coupe/webring/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 11:00:18 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <002565C2.0039E805.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:52:10 +0000 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2218 Lines: 59 Bill "Samsboss sound-a-like that (IIRC, but CBD*) didn't know a thing about SAM and computing when he first came along" Ritman wrote: >> That's okie. I have no idea about the ARM either. Yes, there are thousands >> of >> people who can program the Z80. BUT, they already know how to program the >> Z80. They want the challenge. They want something new. They want to break >> new ground. >No they don't - if that was true then they would all be programming PC's or >something else. People like the Spectrum and Sam because they are simple and >easy to get to grips with. BULLSHIT!!! Obviously you're not an engineer because if you were, then you wouldn't be saying that. And I wouldn't call the PC "breaking new ground". It has already been broken into! Shi. Even I've designed and sourced a virus. (I never tested it though.) I like the SAM because it's easy to learn to do hardware projects with. Otherwise, it would still be in my parent's loft with that thermal transfer printer! > Why have people gone on buying Ford Escort cars (like mine) for 30 years. > Because they like them, they feel comfortable with something they can trust. > Who wants to do something challanging? So. You know of no car enthusiast who makes/adapts their own car? And to answer your question about challenges: Me. My mates. Every decent engineer that I know of. My old project supervisor. Most people on this list. And all those other people who have told me they were fed up with Z80 machines. Okie then. I'm going to let Samsboss, Bob, Bill and everyone else who wants to carry on the Samson project do what they want. I won't be putting in any more input - I'm fed up with the lack of decent design discussion from the project "leaders" (Ha! There's a contradiction!). I may buy the resulting product if Ithink it's worth it and it becomes more than dream-ware. For now, I'm sticking to my own projects; They have more chance of going the way I want them to go. If you had replied with a decent explanation of why you wanted to keep to the Z80 based machine other than "Oh, I like/know it" then I would have some respect for you. (Damn. I think I've alienated myself from everyone now....) * CBD - Can be disproven. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 11:00:18 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <002565C2.003BC44D.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:55:26 +0000 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 389 Lines: 13 Bob wrote in reply to moi: >>What I'm trying to say is that if you are intending to spend all that money >>and >>time building something, why not do it properly and find something >>challenging. >Challenging to who? The designers of the machine or the users? Ideally, challenging for the designers. Easy for the users to use, but challenging if they want to get to the roots... Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 11:24:41 1998 From: Paul Walker Message-Id: <199803091113.LAA09425@lupin.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) In-Reply-To: <002565C2.0039E805.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at "Mar 9, 98 10:52:10 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:13:46 +0000 (GMT) X-Approved: bill@whitehouse.gov X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 235 Lines: 8 > into! Shi. Even I've designed and sourced a virus. (I never tested it > though.) Er ... if you never tested it, then I wouldn't shout too loudly about it being a virus, since there's a fair chance it won't work properly. ;) Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 11:24:53 1998 From: Paul Walker Message-Id: <199803091118.LAA09791@lupin.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: <199803090022.TAA02482@smtp2.erols.com> from Simon Cooke at "Mar 8, 98 07:22:38 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:18:32 +0000 (GMT) X-Approved: bill@whitehouse.gov X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 150 Lines: 8 > Who is Samsboss? > Can Bill Ritman prove that they exist? Er ... samsboss, maybe, but as for Bill - Simon, can you prove you exist, please? Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 11:24:53 1998 From: Paul Walker Message-Id: <199803091120.LAA09977@lupin.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Mips in the New Sam In-Reply-To: from Andrew Collier at "Mar 8, 98 04:49:33 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:20:34 +0000 (GMT) X-Approved: bill@whitehouse.gov X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 273 Lines: 8 > to freedom of use rather than no-cost distribution). The original aim of > the GNU project was to produce an alternative to Unix which was completely It still is, but I'm not sure that hurd is being developed very quickly. Work is still being done on it, though. Paul From imc Mon Mar 9 11:33:14 1998 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:33:14 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199803091118.LAA09791@lupin.csv.warwick.ac.uk> from "Paul Walker" at Mar 9, 98 11:18:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 474 Lines: 11 On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:18:32 +0000 (GMT), Paul Walker said: > Er ... samsboss, maybe, but as for Bill - Simon, can you prove you exist, > please? I imagine he would provide as evidence the various places that his name has gone into print; also, the number of web pages in existence which contain pictures of him (which would be verified by several members of this list if you ask them) ought to be enough. Many others on this list, including Bob, can claim the same. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:00 1998 From: Paul Walker Message-Id: <199803091126.LAA10466@lupin.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) In-Reply-To: <85a7c319.3502b418@aol.com> from BillRitman at "Mar 8, 98 10:07:02 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:26:42 +0000 (GMT) X-Approved: bill@whitehouse.gov X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 425 Lines: 8 > As to how serious things are, I note my question on where the money is comeing > from has not been answered yet. The money's not coming from anywhere, because this is only a pipe-dream. SAMSon will never happen, and we all know it - I said last year that people would still be arging, and surprisingly enough, people are still arguing, and we're no further forwards. And meanwhile the SAM world shrinks, and we fiddle... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:01 1998 From: Paul Walker Message-Id: <199803091129.LAA10769@lupin.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-Reply-To: <299fbfe.35028028@aol.com> from BrenchleyR at "Mar 8, 98 06:25:26 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:29:10 +0000 (GMT) X-Approved: bill@whitehouse.gov X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 701 Lines: 15 > But if you carry out a SAVE/LOAD with the disc, expecting SAM format, and it > is MS-DOS format, you will get an error saying the disc is wrong format. There If you get that, then IMO the system is designed wrongly. It should be almost transparent to the user what format the disk is. And, while I'm writing ... personally, I think the idea of having the format as part of the specifier is a really daft idea. A device name should be just that - a device. The drive is the device, so we call it D1, for Disk 1. Otherwise, if you get a disk and forget what format it is, or you don't know, or... you have to mess around trying different forms, waiting for the error message, trying again... Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:03 1998 From: Paul Walker Message-Id: <199803091139.LAA11753@lupin.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Mostly 'ARMless In-Reply-To: <40340e05.3501107f@aol.com> from BrenchleyR at "Mar 7, 98 04:16:45 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:39:39 +0000 (GMT) X-Approved: bill@whitehouse.gov X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 306 Lines: 6 > >> (why does netscape go dead when I accidentally press shift-insert?) > >It's Netscape, it doesn't need a reason. > Well at least its not a Microsloth product. This is true. You can tell the difference, since IE3 doesn't crash, whereas Netscape falls over with monotonous regularity. But we digress... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:04 1998 From: Paul Walker Message-Id: <199803091146.LAA12256@lupin.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM. In-Reply-To: <718736da.350011e9@aol.com> from BrenchleyR at "Mar 6, 98 10:10:31 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:46:30 +0000 (GMT) X-Approved: bill@whitehouse.gov X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 526 Lines: 14 > The have been complaints on this list for a long time the SAM C was no good > for writing SAM software because it lacks many features the people on this > list seem to think C needs. Such as easy file handling, floats, decent libraries, an un-bugged to hell IDE... Basically, it's a bad compiler. > will need to be hand optimized to improve them. But the experts tell me that C > is the way to go for the bulk of the coding and I can see their point. Do these experts regularly write operating systems for SAM Coupes? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:06 1998 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:05:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Allan Skillman To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: SimCoupe developement version 0.76 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 643 Lines: 17 Hi All, I've put up the latest developement version of SimCoupe (v0.76) on the snapshot webpage (DOS binary) http://www.hep.ucl.ac.uk/~ajs/simcoupe Please give it a try. Allan +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allan Skillman | "There are five flavours of resons, the | | EDA Group | elementary particles of magic : up, down, | | Advanced RISC Machines | sideways, sex-appeal and peppermint." | | allan.skillman@arm.com | - Terry Pratchett (Lords and Ladies) | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:07 1998 Illegal-Object: Syntax error in Message-Id: value found on sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no: Message-Id: ^-Extraneous program text From: Dan Doore Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:49:13 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: WEB PAGES OPEN !!!! MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-Id: <19980309124953Z49672-28688+464@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Status: RO Content-Length: 371 Lines: 14 > Just a quick post to say my Sam web pages are now open: > > http://members.tripod.com/~c_piggot/quazar/ May I recommend to sir that he join the Sam Coupe Web Ring. http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/coupe/webring/ Dan. Work: dan@bacg.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ Sam Users Web Ring: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/coupe/webring/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:07 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:09:34 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Floppy Disks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1142 Lines: 34 In a message dated 09/03/98 09:17:00, you write: >o > >> The problem is that different disc formats need to be checked, that means >that >> the checking routine would have to be extended every time a new format was >to >> be included. Better I think to leave that to the human in charge. > >If you leave it to the human in charge, you are bound to get in trouble. >As a system administrator, my oppinion on the average user has diminished. >I've seen people trying to get a disc into the CD slot. If they can, >they will. [Murphy adendum] > >> >> If you make these sort of things tooooo intelligent it will just take up >too >> much space and too much time. > >The time from the disc is inserted to the user is ready to do something >with it is usually substantial on a CPU-cycle basis. The error handling >code will most likely take up far more space. > > -Frode I know what you are saying, and I see you point. But there are two ways to go. 1) give the user/programmer control (as in a DOS or UNIX type system) or 2) give the OS all the power as in Windoze'95. Each is valid, I just think the leaner/meaner system is better. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:08 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:09:31 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1342 Lines: 43 In a message dated 09/03/98 00:23:21, you write: >o > >Okay, I've just about had enough of this. > >Who is Samsboss? >Can Bill Ritman prove that they exist? > >The only thing that Bob, Bill and Samsboss have proved on this list so far is >that they are opinionated, unknowledgeable fuckwits*. I'll remeber that remark Mr Cooke. > >The list has gone to pot. People are dropping like flies from the SAM world. >I don't even know if I should bother doing any more work on this C compiler >because of this. I've spent 210 pounds on it so far over the last few days**. >It ain't worth it. > >So shit or get off the pot. Prove who you are, SB and BR, or please fuck off >somewhere else. Well as I've said before, I do know who Samsboss is. But I don't see any need for anyone to prove who anyone is. > >simon > >* USENET definition: someone who holds their opinion as fact erroneously, and >continues to do so after being proved wrong. Then why did you add me to the list? >** in terms of books I've bought to research it, and my hourly rate. My >personal rate, that is, not what I charge for consultancy, which would come >to about 940 quid. Well if we all used an hourly rate god only knows what sort of costs I could claim for work I've done on the SAMSON so far. But of course, you can't look at things like that can you.... -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:08 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:09:35 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 409 Lines: 14 In a message dated 09/03/98 11:10:03, you write: >. > >If you had replied with a decent explanation of why you wanted to >keep to the Z80 based machine other than "Oh, I like/know it" then >I would have some respect for you. But is that not, in itself, one of the main reasons for keeping a Z80 (or similar) processor at the heart of anything we do. Because we do like it, because we do know it. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:10 1998 Message-Id: <199803091513.PAA28430@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:12:58 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Books! In-reply-to: <35023B30.5578@postmaster.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 916 Lines: 24 > Quick question? > > Anyone got any copies of the Complete Speccy Rom Disassembly - > Programming the Z80 - or any similar books for sale? > > David i could probably consider selling my 'library' of speccy books - a couple of assmebly ones (one for the speccy 128 and the other one by that Toni lass that i've forgotten the surname of), a hardware one whose name i forget but it's pretty general, and the Melbourne House titles Supercharge Your Spectrum and Understanding The Spectrum. that last one's by, i think, ian logan (or at least the other guy who did the rom disassembly) and as such has lots of useful rom info and partial disassemblies, as well as discussion on spectrum basic and the z80 instruction set. i've got some other ones too but nothing great best offer (that includes postage) gets. have to wait a few weeks as they're in fleet (down south) and i'm in edinburgh (up north) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:12 1998 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:03:33 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Adie Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) In-Reply-To: <35032daf.1009888@mail.enterprise.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 519 Lines: 18 Dave wrote: >It'll never happen anyway. They're full of good ideas, but there's no [snnnnnnnip!] HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORAH! Agreed 100%. Is there much point in pouring heaps of dosh into building a new SAM or whatever the hell it is you are all plannning, when it's just you lot who are going to be buying it anyway? SAM is just a nostalgia machine now, or a machine for the true fanatic. Adie http://www.scooter.demon.co.uk Blind Youth Fanzine HQ + Travis, Inaura, The Needles From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:13 1998 Message-Id: <199803091553.PAA08355@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:52:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-reply-to: <299fbfe.35028028@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4861 Lines: 129 > But if you carry out a SAVE/LOAD with the disc, expecting SAM format, and it > is MS-DOS format, you will get an error saying the disc is wrong format. There > is no auto-detection involved in that, the very structure of the disc system > means it will not work. what? course it's auto detection. ok, here we go. me trying to point out the painfully simple if the disk is MS-DOS format, but you don't have any kind of auto detection, then SAMDOS (or son-of-samdos or whatever) will happily write over the MS-DOS fat table with the SAM-DOS directory, and then die when it gets to sector 10 ... the error you get will be 'oh shit... i couldn't find sector 10... maybe it wasn't a samdos disk after all... too late though as i've trashed all the good bits on it' consider the simplest kind of 'auto detection': in a case where the operating system allows only one kind of file system (eg, Samdos with it's SAMDOS disk structure) a check should be made before a read or write to ensure that there is some sort of SAMDOS-specific data on it. I forget what it is for the SAM but it probably amounts to reading track 0, sector 1 and checking for the string "SAM" or something. anyway, before a read or write, do that. then, if the check fails, the disk is NOT of the correct format, an error should be printed and the operation aborted AUTO DETECTION easy to implement access to other disk systems, you just need to use utilities that perform similar sort of checks on the disk. Along the lines of KE-Disk, i guess... but think of it as some sort of DOS2UNIX-like command. you would use a utility called 'MSDOSdsk', for example, which is a CODE file that takes an argument list when you call it (CALL xxxx []) so, for example, to copy a Samdos file to an MSDOS disk system, you load up the MSDOSdsk file into memory and type CALL xxxx "copy" "d1:tetris.scr" "d2:tetris.scr" sorta thing. xxxx is the call address specified with the manual that came with MSDOSdsk. anyway, the point is, it is THIS program that needs to check the disk systems for non-SAMDOS disk structures, not the OS at this point. in this case, MSDOSdsk needs to check that the disk in d1 is a SAMDOS disk and that the disk in d2 is an MSDOS disk (or vice versa). simply put, to extend the range of disk systems you could use with the computer (if the situation arises that you want to use, say, MAC-OS disks on your computer), you just need to add utility programs with appropriate functionality. i guess if you use the SAM's 'slott' mechanism (assuming each utility is <1K) you could have a 'master' slot that handles access to other file systems. so that, you could load the 'OtherDisk' program into one slott, a fictitious program that handles calls to specific non-SAMDOS disk access utilities, and then invoke it such: CALL yyyy "copy" "d1:tetris.scr" "d2:tetris.scr" (where yyyy is the call address specified in the manual that came with OtherDisk) in the process of executing this command, OtherDisk makes a call to each non-SAMDOS disk access utility stored in the others slotts that exactly mirrors the effect of LET d1 = 0, d2 = 0 CALL xxxx "detect" "d1" LENGTH(d1,0) CALL xxxx "detect" "d2" LENGTH(d2,0) (or maybe just one of the calls, depending on the call to OtherDisk) where the 'detect' function, like the 'copy' function, is a known entry point into all non-SAMDOS disk access utilities (ie, standardised) which fills in the variable a with a 1 if the disk in the specified drive is of a type that the non-SAMDOS disk access utility can deal with. once OtherDisk has amassed this information from each non-SAMDOS disk access utility, it can choose which utility to pass on the request to. it's all sorta straightforward. of course, you could initially (ie, **NOW**) elect to select a subset of all disk systems to incorporate into the OS. then, on each access to disk, you do the same sort of thing (call some sort of OtherDisk function to find out whether the OS can support the disk types in the drive(s) for which the access applies) no different, really. and OtherDisk can still be extended with other slott-resident non-SAMDOS (or son-of-samdos) disk access utilities. dave hope you realise now that it's no good saying 'you don't need autodetection as the OS will just realise that disk is of the wrong format and give you an error' as the rest of us will just laugh at you for talking cobblers. if it doesn't autodetect, it doesn't know if the disk is of an incorrect format. easy as that. maybe don't call it autodetect; call it what you want, the point will still be the same. the OS needs to know what kind of disk format the disk is in if it is to give the user an error when it's of the wrong type. i call it autodetect. so sue me. thank you for listening. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:15 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980309110213.006d211c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 11:02:13 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4162 Lines: 93 >>The only thing that Bob, Bill and Samsboss have proved on this list so far is >>that they are opinionated, unknowledgeable fuckwits*. > >I'll remeber that remark Mr Cooke. Fine -- I remember lots of remarks you've made about other things too. But let's be honest here Bob -- it's true, isn't it? I'm sure we've gone over on the list, for example, lots of reasons why having a *second* processor design instead of a replacement processor one is a bad idea. But you keep pushing it. Same with the SAMRAM or whatever it is. I mean, for God's sake, Martin & myself designed the MultiROM years ago -- did anyone bother contacting us for the design? No. Same with plenty of other stuff we've worked on. It's like that pathetic excuse about the postal system that you use with alarming frequency. I'd have thought that if the post was so bad in Gloucester, you'd have started sending things registered mail. The SAM is on its last legs. It's dying. We need more programmers. To facilitate that, I ask you if you'd mind if I scanned the tech manual in and put it on the web. You say you would mind. That in itself is the most stupid attitude I can imagine. I mean, how much did you pay the receivers for the copyright on it Bob? How many do you sell? How many did you sell last Quarter? What's your profit on it? Now, what would you lose by putting it up on the web? And what would the whole SAM community that you're so fond of defending gain? >> >>The list has gone to pot. People are dropping like flies from the SAM world. >>I don't even know if I should bother doing any more work on this C compiler >>because of this. I've spent 210 pounds on it so far over the last few days**. >>It ain't worth it. >> >>So shit or get off the pot. Prove who you are, SB and BR, or please fuck off >>somewhere else. > >Well as I've said before, I do know who Samsboss is. But I don't see any need >for anyone to prove who anyone is. Bob -- if they were being nice, no-one would care. Once they start getting abusive, hiding behind an anonymous name is not only cowardice, but it shows that they're scared of dirtying their own name. So they snipe from behind cover. It's PATHETIC. Do you hear me, SAMSBOSS? YOU'RE PATHETIC. IF YOU HAD THE COURAGE OF YOUR CONVICTIONS, AND ACTUALLY BELIEVED WHAT YOU'RE SAYING RATHER THAN JUST TRYING TO WIND PEOPLE UP, THEN YOU'D HAVE NO PROBLEM REVEALING YOUR NAME. BUT YOU DON'T. >>simon >> >>* USENET definition: someone who holds their opinion as fact erroneously, and >>continues to do so after being proved wrong. > >Then why did you add me to the list? Because you continued to claim that I had some part in the downfall of SAMCo, even after I proved with *publication dates* (that I could get 38,000 people at least to agree with if I could track them all down), that I had nothing to do with it. >>** in terms of books I've bought to research it, and my hourly rate. My >>personal rate, that is, not what I charge for consultancy, which would come >>to about 940 quid. > >Well if we all used an hourly rate god only knows what sort of costs I could >claim for work I've done on the SAMSON so far. Go to it. Take your salary, divide by the number of hours you work per year -- that should be in terms of 52 weeks a year, 5 days a week, roughly 7.5-8 hours per day. Multiply by the number of hours you've spent on the project. There's what its cost you. >But of course, you can't look at things like that can you.... I can. I'm just sick of all the sniping that's going on -- and I know I'm one of the causes of it, but usually without provocation. As well as that, Samsboss and Bill Ritman are both abusive individuals, who to date have contradicted their own stories about themselves numerous times, fired off abusive emails to people on and off this list, and generally behaved antisocially. This includes the rather major bout of slander that Bill indulged in on Sunday. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:16 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980309110514.006d1a78@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 11:05:14 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-Reply-To: <199803091553.PAA08355@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <299fbfe.35028028@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1048 Lines: 23 At 03:52 PM 3/9/98 +0000, you wrote: >consider the simplest kind of 'auto detection': >in a case where the operating system allows only one kind of file >system (eg, Samdos with it's SAMDOS disk structure) a check should >be made before a read or write to ensure that there is some sort of >SAMDOS-specific data on it. I forget what it is for the SAM but it >probably amounts to reading track 0, sector 1 and checking for the >string "SAM" or something. anyway, before a read or write, do that. > >then, if the check fails, the disk is NOT of the correct format, an >error should be printed and the operation aborted It's easier to check for MSDOS format by reading sector 1, track 0, side 1, bytes 510 and 511, for &55AA. If it's MasterDOS or SAMDOS format, it won't have those bytes there. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:17 1998 Message-Id: <199803091618.QAA14526@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:17:51 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19980309110213.006d211c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2083 Lines: 52 > The SAM is on its last legs. It's dying. We need more programmers. To > facilitate that, I ask you if you'd mind if I scanned the tech manual in > and put it on the web. You say you would mind. That in itself is the most > stupid attitude I can imagine. I mean, how much did you pay the receivers > for the copyright on it Bob? How many do you sell? How many did you sell > last Quarter? What's your profit on it? Now, what would you lose by putting > it up on the web? And what would the whole SAM community that you're so > fond of defending gain? a slightly-related point to ponder: if the sam had some kind of online help system, then what would the users have liked to see in the help files? i for one would have plumped for online versions of the manual and the tech manual oh - but look - online help comes free. i had to buy the tech manual. it's difficult to do anything useful without using the tech manual. i'm sure other computers of the time had useful, free, technical information. i know that the speccy manual covered a lot of ground aside from the basics (for example, it included the IN port addresses for the keyboard, which the normal sam manual did not) and i'm pretty sure the amiga came with full manuals for all the libraries and stuff. i'm not saying that having to pay for the tech manual was a bad thing, but i am saying that a lot of technical details for a whole load of other machines can be found on the internet in one form or another - except for the sam because Bob won't let us put anything up there. my point? sam IS dead, insofar as that it's user base is never going to grow (or developer-base, if you will). as a platform, it's pretty neat, and i for one will use SimCoupe to develop stuff, just to see how far i can get with some ideas i had almost 10 years ago (got sam in 1989) if you want the developer base to increase, for what is essentially a dead, cult, 8-bit micro almost a decade old, then either a) yor havin a larf aintcha? b) you need to make technical documents freely available nuff said? dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:17 1998 Message-Id: <199803091627.QAA16707@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:27:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19980309110514.006d1a78@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> References: <199803091553.PAA08355@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 799 Lines: 22 > It's easier to check for MSDOS format by reading sector 1, track 0, side 1, > bytes 510 and 511, for &55AA. If it's MasterDOS or SAMDOS format, it won't > have those bytes there. yeh yeh... show off... :) the point is, however, that it might be easier to check for MSDOS format, but doing that still doesn't tell you whether this disk is a SAMDOS disk!! the idea is, in the simplest case, the OS checks that the disk is of the CORRECT format, not one of a set of potentially INCORRECT formats! suppose you check to see if it's an MS-DOS disk, and it isn't. you can't then assume that disk is a SAMDOS disk. that's the whole point! the whole point is that, in the simplest case, the OS only knows about ITS OWN DISK FORMAT and so this is the only one it can (validly) check for. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:18 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980309120711.006d3378@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 12:07:11 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-Reply-To: <199803091627.QAA16707@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <3.0.1.32.19980309110514.006d1a78@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> <199803091553.PAA08355@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1640 Lines: 37 >suppose you check to see if it's an MS-DOS disk, and it isn't. you >can't then assume that disk is a SAMDOS disk. that's the whole point! >the whole point is that, in the simplest case, the OS only knows >about ITS OWN DISK FORMAT and so this is the only one it can >(validly) check for. The thing is, there's no way of knowing for certain if a disk is of MasterDOS/SAMDOS type -- there's no magic number in the directory. Cacheing/detection is even more scuppered when you add in that MasterDOS disks are the only ones that have ID fields. It's a hefty problem, which is why I think you have to assume that it's a SAMDOS/MasterDOS disk when there's no ID signature there. Future DOS's (laughing? me?) can have a different signature in the same place as the MSDOS one to tag themselves, which would work nicely. (Have to be a specific field though, there's a reason for why the MSDOS one *only* tags an MSDOS disk, and not a MasterDOS disk -- something to do with number of tracks on a disk or something stored in those bytes in the MasterDOS format being invalid for an MSDOS disk... not read it in a while though). SAMDOS disks probably won't be cacheable either... MasterDOS ones probably will be. Cache scheme: If a disk access doesn't occur for 2 seconds, assume the disk has possibly been changed, and go check it. Write-caching may be impossible on the SAM. I'm not sure. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:18 1998 Message-Id: <199803091727.RAA00324@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:27:18 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19980309120711.006d3378@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> References: <199803091627.QAA16707@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 192 Lines: 6 > The thing is, there's no way of knowing for certain if a disk is of > MasterDOS/SAMDOS type -- there's no magic number in the directory. there HAS to be! it'd be stupid if there aint dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:37:19 1998 Message-Id: <199803091731.RAA00954@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:30:30 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19980309120711.006d3378@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> References: <199803091627.QAA16707@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 921 Lines: 21 > >suppose you check to see if it's an MS-DOS disk, and it isn't. you > >can't then assume that disk is a SAMDOS disk. that's the whole point! > >the whole point is that, in the simplest case, the OS only knows > >about ITS OWN DISK FORMAT and so this is the only one it can > >(validly) check for. just thought - even if there isn't, there's nothing to say we can't 'make' one - are all the 'reserved' fields used? are they ever changed? cuz we could change some 'reserved' stuff in the first dir. entry (track 0 sector 1 side 1) to 'mark' it as our dos. old SAMDOS stuff will be still compatible (assuming it doesn't use the reserved stuff or reset it ever - at least, not for the first dir. entry) one good check for SAMDOS/ MASTERDOS disks is to check for track 0, sector 10... if it has this, it's certainly not MSDOS! (rules out the earlier possibility of 9-sector SAMDOS disks, but still...) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 17:46:57 1998 Message-Id: <199803091741.RAA02983@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:40:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SAMDOS stuff X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 366 Lines: 9 oops.. probably forgot to say you'd need to 'convert' standard SAMDOS/MASTERDOS disks before you can use the future OS (ie, run a program which tweaks the appropriate 'reserved' fields on the disk) anyway, this is all idle speculation anyway... no-one's ever really going to make ANYTHING now that still supports SAMDOS/MASTERDOS disks natively... right? dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 18:22:25 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <002565C2.0063B8B8.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:16:12 +0000 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1124 Lines: 23 Uncle Bob wrote in reply to something I said: >>If you had replied with a decent explanation of why you wanted to >>keep to the Z80 based machine other than "Oh, I like/know it" then >>I would have some respect for you. >But is that not, in itself, one of the main reasons for keeping a Z80 (or >similar) processor at the heart of anything we do. Because we do like it, >because we do know it. That depends on whether you want to sell about *thinks of a rasonable number* ooooh 5 units to people on this list or about ooooh *thinks of another number* 5000 units through electronics hobbyist magazines... (which was a market that I suggested ages ago which you totally ignored) So, now I'm stopping listening and going home to have a read through my newly aquired Passing Your Theory Test book from that very nice woman from BSM. Sheesh. All that reading and spending money to do before I drive one of those so called lovely Ford Escorts that Bill Ritman so dearly recommend.... (How the hell Bill Ritman not know who Jon Ritman was, I'll never know) Justin. (Someone who is not part of the Bob, SB & BR love triangle) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 19:38:07 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980309141917.006d4dd4@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 14:19:17 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-Reply-To: <199803091727.RAA00324@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <3.0.1.32.19980309120711.006d3378@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> <199803091627.QAA16707@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 519 Lines: 16 At 05:27 PM 3/9/98 +0000, you wrote: >> The thing is, there's no way of knowing for certain if a disk is of >> MasterDOS/SAMDOS type -- there's no magic number in the directory. > >there HAS to be! it'd be stupid if there aint Guess what? It's stupid, cos there ain't. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 19:38:08 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980309141856.0069b80c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 14:18:56 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-Reply-To: <199803091731.RAA00954@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <3.0.1.32.19980309120711.006d3378@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> <199803091627.QAA16707@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 840 Lines: 20 At 05:30 PM 3/9/98 +0000, you wrote: >just thought - even if there isn't, there's nothing to say we can't >'make' one - are all the 'reserved' fields used? are they ever >changed? cuz we could change some 'reserved' stuff in the first dir. >entry (track 0 sector 1 side 1) to 'mark' it as our dos. old SAMDOS >stuff will be still compatible (assuming it doesn't use the reserved >stuff or reset it ever - at least, not for the first dir. entry) In MasterDOS, yep, they are, AFAIK. Making SAMDOS disks MasterDOS format would be a good change. I'll check it out if I can find my docs. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 20:04:55 1998 Message-ID: <35036752.426C@postmaster.co.uk> Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 19:51:47 -0800 From: David Ledbury Organization: The Foundation for Green Eggs & Ham X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Books! References: <199803091513.PAA28430@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1145 Lines: 32 Dave Hooper wrote: > > > Quick question? > > > > Anyone got any copies of the Complete Speccy Rom Disassembly - > > Programming the Z80 - or any similar books for sale? > > > > David > > i could probably consider selling my 'library' of speccy books - a > couple of assmebly ones (one for the speccy 128 and the other one by > that Toni lass that i've forgotten the surname of), a hardware one > whose name i forget but it's pretty general, and the > Melbourne House titles Supercharge Your Spectrum and Understanding > The Spectrum. that last one's by, i think, ian logan (or at least the > other guy who did the rom disassembly) and as such has lots of useful > rom info and partial disassemblies, as well as discussion on > spectrum basic and the z80 instruction set. > > i've got some other ones too but nothing great > > best offer (that includes postage) gets. have to wait a few weeks as > they're in fleet (down south) and i'm in edinburgh (up north) > > dave Right! I'm interested! BTW Toni Baker (as it was ...) remember this character? Very prone to turning up to shows in either male or female garb ... It takes all sorts ;) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 20:04:55 1998 Message-ID: <35036906.1B82@postmaster.co.uk> Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 19:59:02 -0800 From: David Ledbury Organization: The Foundation for Green Eggs & Ham X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAMDOS stuff References: <199803091741.RAA02983@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 471 Lines: 15 Dave Hooper wrote: > > oops.. probably forgot to say you'd need to 'convert' standard > SAMDOS/MASTERDOS disks before you can use the future OS (ie, run a > program which tweaks the appropriate 'reserved' fields on the disk) > > anyway, this is all idle speculation anyway... no-one's ever really > going to make ANYTHING now that still supports SAMDOS/MASTERDOS disks > natively... right? > > dave And what's BDOS then Dave????? (Available on Blitz 7 - plug,plug!) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 20:37:06 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980309152105.006d2218@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 15:21:05 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SAMDOS stuff In-Reply-To: <35036906.1B82@postmaster.co.uk> References: <199803091741.RAA02983@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 442 Lines: 18 At 07:59 PM 3/8/98 -0800, you wrote: >And what's BDOS then Dave????? > >(Available on Blitz 7 - plug,plug!) REALLLLLLLY? Coo. Cheque's in the post. Well, will be when I get back to England. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 21:24:33 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <3a797bcd.35045847@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:59:49 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 709 Lines: 24 In a message dated 08/03/98 16:17:59, you write: > > > I'd like to see some definate commitment here as well... > > > > So would I. > > Hmmmm.... how many people here - within scope of their means - are > willing to put their money > where their mouth is? I would chip in a bit if it helped. > > > > Incidently - by the same score, we could do with more of these people > > > who say they > > > support the plan, to buy other independant hardware... such as the > > > Quazar Surround soundard? > > > > And the SD hard drive.... (soory, can't think of any other hardware). > > Well... doesn't mean to say that it doesn't exist ;) > Do you know something that I don't then? Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 21:24:34 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <1e04b89a.35045850@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:59:58 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3121 Lines: 80 In a message dated 09/03/98 11:10:03, you write: > > Bill "Samsboss sound-a-like that (IIRC, but CBD*) didn't know a thing about > SAM and computing when he first came along" Ritman wrote: > > >> That's okie. I have no idea about the ARM either. Yes, there are > thousands > >> of > >> people who can program the Z80. BUT, they already know how to program > the > >> Z80. They want the challenge. They want something new. They want to > break > >> new ground. > >No they don't - if that was true then they would all be programming PC's > or > >something else. People like the Spectrum and Sam because they are simple > and > >easy to get to grips with. > > BULLSHIT!!! > Obviously you're not an engineer because if you were, then you wouldn't be > saying that. No, I'm not an engineer, and nor are most people. If you want to see a machine build with the engineer in mind go build one. SAM is for humans not engineers. > > And I wouldn't call the PC "breaking new ground". It has already been > broken > into! Shi. Even I've designed and sourced a virus. (I never tested it > though.) > I like the SAM because it's easy to learn to do hardware projects with. > Otherwise, > it would still be in my parent's loft with that thermal transfer printer! Or sold so someone can enjoy the wonder of the machine. > > > > Why have people gone on buying Ford Escort cars (like mine) for 30 years. > > Because they like them, they feel comfortable with something they can > trust. > > Who wants to do something challanging? > > So. You know of no car enthusiast who makes/adapts their own car? Makes, no. I doubt if there are more than a handful of people who make their own cars and even those are from kits. Adapts, yes. My brother used to do a lot of custom work on his cars. But that is hardly the thing we are talking about is it? > > And to answer your question about challenges: Me. My mates. Every > decent engineer that I know of. My old project supervisor. Most people > on this list. And all those other people who have told me they were fed > up with Z80 machines. But you are not a normal type person then are you? Not the sort that a machine like SAam or Samson is aimed at. > > Okie then. I'm going to let Samsboss, Bob, Bill and everyone else > who wants to carry on the Samson project do what they want. I won't > be putting in any more input - I'm fed up with the lack of decent design > discussion from the project "leaders" (Ha! There's a contradiction!). Out of interest, who do you consider the project "leaders" to be? > I may buy the resulting product if Ithink it's worth it and it becomes > more than dream-ware. For now, I'm sticking to my own projects; They > have more chance of going the way I want them to go. > > If you had replied with a decent explanation of why you wanted to > keep to the Z80 based machine other than "Oh, I like/know it" then > I would have some respect for you. IMHO "I like it/I know it" is a very decent explanation. > > (Damn. I think I've alienated myself from everyone now....) > > Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 21:24:37 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:59:53 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Who has contributed most. Was RE: Floppy Disks. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1343 Lines: 41 In a message dated 08/03/98 22:23:25, you write: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Samsboss > > >Come on Gavin, play fair for once in your life, just compare what > >Andrew has done for the SAM world with what Bob has done. Why not sit > >down and make a list and then post it here so we can all compare. > > If you ask me (and you did), Bob has done a lot more damage than good in the > SAM world, and most of us know what. That is utter balls and you know it. > > >And while you are at it, list what you have done as well, then we can > >all have a good laugh. > > Oh, here's Mr. Maturity again. Listen, I may not have the coding skills that > some people on this list have, but I support the computer, by spending money > on it - I've spent a fortune on it, I buy nearly everything that comes out. On that score I will side with you Gavin, we can all support Sam in our own ways, and buying things is an important way. But I do think that you go out of your way to argue with Bob for no just reason, although you are still miles behind Andrew :) > I don't pretend to be what I'm not. Okay, to sink to your level, what have > you done? > > Gavin > > PS If this is some stupid attempt at starting a flame war Bob, don't - flame > me in private as you usually do. > Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 21:24:37 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <3796959d.35045852@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:59:55 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1309 Lines: 43 In a message dated 09/03/98 00:23:21, you write: > > Okay, I've just about had enough of this. > > Who is Samsboss? > Can Bill Ritman prove that they exist? I've just asked my Wife and she says no :( > > The only thing that Bob, Bill and Samsboss have proved on this list so far > is that they are opinionated, unknowledgeable fuckwits*. I suppose there has to be some of us around to make people like you feel superior. > > The list has gone to pot. People are dropping like flies from the SAM world. > I don't even know if I should bother doing any more work on this C compiler > because of this. I've spent 210 pounds on it so far over the last few days**. > It ain't worth it. > > So shit or get off the pot. Prove who you are, SB and BR, or please fuck off > somewhere else. Can you prove who you are? > > simon > > * USENET definition: someone who holds their opinion as fact erroneously, > and continues to do so after being proved wrong. > ** in terms of books I've bought to research it, and my hourly rate. My > personal rate, that is, not what I charge for consultancy, which would come > to about 940 quid. Those that can DO, those that like to think they can charge others for the privilege of finding out they can't. (Old lawyers proverb). > > > Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 21:24:37 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <9c8dbb95.35045853@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:00:00 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 676 Lines: 16 In a message dated 09/03/98 17:56:54, you write: > > I can. I'm just sick of all the sniping that's going on -- and I know I'm > one of the causes of it, but usually without provocation. As well as that, > Samsboss and Bill Ritman are both abusive individuals, who to date have > contradicted their own stories about themselves numerous times, fired off > abusive emails to people on and off this list, and generally behaved > antisocially. This includes the rather major bout of slander that Bill > indulged in on Sunday. Are you saying that what I was told by Adrian Parker, and by Derek Morgan (in person at the October 96 Gloucester show) is was wrong? Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 21:24:38 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <7978fa21.35045848@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:59:50 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Mips in the New Sam Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 564 Lines: 21 In a message dated 08/03/98 16:50:20, you write: > At 3:07 pm +0000 8/3/98, BillRitman wrote: > >In a message dated 07/03/98 22:50:06, you write: > > > >> > >> You can get GNU 'C++' compilers to mips as freeware so thats not a > problem > >> > >skews me, could someone explain what GNU stands for? > > GNU stands for "GNU's Not Unix" > > At the risk of looking like Bob, I'll answer a different question to the > one you asked. > > Just on the offchance that you wanted a helpful reply, you understand :) > Thanks, now I understand. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 21:24:39 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <7d7ebe1d.35045851@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:59:59 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 657 Lines: 20 In a message dated 09/03/98 17:53:20, you write: > > > As to how serious things are, I note my question on where the money is > comeing > > from has not been answered yet. > > The money's not coming from anywhere, because this is only a pipe-dream. > SAMSon > will never happen, and we all know it - I said last year that people would > still be arging, and surprisingly enough, people are still arguing, and we' > re no > further forwards. And meanwhile the SAM world shrinks, and we fiddle... > I do hope you are wrong Paul, I do. How about starting a lottery syndicate to see if we can will the money to make our dreams come true? Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 9 21:24:39 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980309161226.006d3608@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 16:12:26 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: <3796959d.35045852@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1193 Lines: 29 >Can you prove who you are? I can and have done; I've put my phone number up, and Bob, Colin MacD, Chris, Bruce Gordon, Alan Miles, Mark Hall, Colin Piggot... and lots of other SAM users can do so. I've met them in the flesh. Gone to the pub with them. Slept at their houses. Bill, what do you use the Internet for? >> * USENET definition: someone who holds their opinion as fact erroneously, >> and continues to do so after being proved wrong. >> ** in terms of books I've bought to research it, and my hourly rate. My >> personal rate, that is, not what I charge for consultancy, which would come >> to about 940 quid. > >Those that can DO, those that like to think they can charge others for the >privilege of finding out they can't. (Old lawyers proverb). Whatever that's supposed to mean. If it's a slur on my abilities, then explain why I've still got a job after working in the computer industry full time for nearly two years. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 00:40:32 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980309174315.006c9068@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 17:43:15 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: <3796959d.35045852@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1766 Lines: 61 >I suppose there has to be some of us around to make people like you feel >superior. An addendum to this comment: On the list today, we have the people who have the most experience designing SAM hardware and programming SAM software. There's a couple of people who aren't on here at the mo too, but on the whole, we have the most knowledge of *ANYONE* on how the SAM works. Anyone who's still actively doing stuff for the SAM anyway. These include: Andrew Collier David Zambonini Martin Rookyard Colin Piggot Allan Skillman Ian Collier Chris White Simon Owen We did have: Nev Young We haven't got: Paul Crompton Paul Horridge ESI BZYK Most of the people in Eastern Europe whose stuff mainly only gets seen in Eastern Europe Bruce Gordon The guys who did Softrix and SCP&E. Yet on the whole, the people who know the most have their views ignored. Is it any wonder that we get annoyed with the situation? The same debates rattle on and on and on, over and over again. With no conclusion. Because the people who insist on making those points won't listen to reasoned arguments. I've been programming Z80 machine code for 15 years now. I've helped Martin design hardware for the SAM that would push it way beyond its current limits. Frankly, yes, that does give me superior knowledge. But that doesn't make me feel superior. I'll listen to reasoned arguments and agree with them if they're, as I see them correct. I'll also quite happily change my stance and apologise if I've offended when I'm proved wrong. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 00:40:40 1998 From: Martin Rookyard To: SamUsers Subject: Re: the plan for sam Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:45:20 -0000 Message-ID: <01bd4bad$0a3c95d0$0100007f@adiemus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3295 Lines: 73 Bill, The digitizer... SamCo had a good working version which was about to be produced but then you know the story of what happened there... no it wasn't Simon it was the Arabs. If you do not understand that reference then maybe you do not know why SamCo died. Bruce had made a batch of boards and had tested okay. The working prototype mysteriously disappeared... but never mind. I was then told by the receivers that Mr Brenchley had taken over the contract for the digitizer. I approached the Format stall at the next All Formats show in London where I spoke to Colin MacDonald who said Mr Brenchley was abandoning it - strange that I should hear it from a third party first!!. Mr Brenchley then confirmed, himself by phone, that he had taken over the contract and later that he was not bothering with the digitizer. This left the digitizer in limbo... Yes myself and Simon have had a few WORKING (take note) designs such as a 512K Rom board (with 128k SRAM), a working hard disc interface, a high resolution graphics board complete with lumakey switching. As for the current version of the digitizer - well Derek now owns the designs and I did say I would help him but I moved house 18 months ago and all my equipment is in the loft in boxes. I still have nowhere to work. Today I was literally up to my neck in SHIT putting in a new water main - this is one of the less major jobs to do to satisfy the mortgage lenders and insurers.. I no longer have time to piss about. Quite frankly I have more important/interesting things to do than waste my time creating a machine that will have no market or add-ons for the SAM that no one will buy. Two or three years ago maybe ... but not now ... it's way, way too late. You now know the full story. If you lost money with SamCo sorry, but don't blame me.. I was informed that my hands were tied contractually. On top of that I have since been given information that this was not the case. From what I have heard there was a lot of skullduggery went on in the wake of SamCo but I don't care anymore. You complain that we kept coming out with prototypes but nothing in the guise of a final product. That's simple - they were all nothing more than test bed prototypes. They were designed with a lot of thought and consideration so that a) they prove or disprove the viability of various ideas b) they could be plugged into the back of the standard 8 bit SAM and give it improved features c) they could also be plugged into a 16 bit system and use the full capabilities of the new machine hence reducing upgrade costs for the new machine. We have solved most of the problems regarding upgrade / new machine paths. We have been actively encouraged by some (thanks) and derided by others as fly-by-night vapourware pedlars. If you want to build a new machine, Simon and myself have learned a lot (not because we're clever; but because we made the effort) and could offer a lot. However, you seem positive that you want to re-invent the wheel. Okay, go on then. BTW did you ever see the 11MHz Sam prototype at the Gloucester show? Now for the big one. I have not seen a hint about EMC anywhere in this discussion. I would certainly not put my name anywhere near a new machine that has not been certified. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 00:40:41 1998 Message-ID: <19980309230037.11938.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.172.112.207] From: Peter Farrell To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Fighting Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 15:00:30 PST X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 253 Lines: 11 Hi I'm new here Is it always as busy as this? My mailbox is getting really full Does anybody know of any new games coming out soon? Pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 00:40:42 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980309175828.006c4dc0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 17:58:28 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: SAM Brains Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 323 Lines: 10 Oops... forgot some people... Take a bow, Stefan Drissen and Edwin Blink! Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 00:40:43 1998 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:32:21 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Ian Dalziel Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: <199803091133.LAA10127@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 550 Lines: 16 In article <199803091133.LAA10127@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk>, Ian Collier writes >On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:18:32 +0000 (GMT), Paul Walker said: >> Simon, can you prove you exist, >> please? > >I imagine he would provide as evidence the various places that his name has >gone into print; also, the number of web pages in existence which contain >pictures of him Aw shit - I don't exist. I've suspected this for years, actually. Could have worked it out from the Cogito, I suppose. 'Scuse me while I vapourise... -- Ian Dalziel From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 00:40:44 1998 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:22:48 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Ian Dalziel Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 408 Lines: 12 In article , Adie writes >SAM is just a nostalgia machine >now, or a machine for the true fanatic. Well, probably... I've a magazine on my desk here advertising brand new parts for Morris Minors, I've just spent a weekend collecting parts for my Citron GS - true fanatics do exist and they won't go away, leave us alone! ;-) -- Ian Dalziel From imc Tue Mar 10 01:12:11 1998 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:12:11 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Ian Dalziel" at Mar 9, 98 11:32:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 457 Lines: 12 On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:32:21 +0000, Ian Dalziel said: > >I imagine he would provide as evidence the various places that his name has > >gone into print; also, the number of web pages in existence which contain > >pictures of him > Aw shit - I don't exist. I've suspected this for years, actually. Could > have worked it out from the Cogito, I suppose. 'Scuse me while I > vapourise... Simon exists therefore you do not? What kind of logic is that? imc From imc Tue Mar 10 01:17:09 1998 Subject: Re: Books! To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:17:09 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <35023B30.5578@postmaster.co.uk> from "David Ledbury" at Mar 7, 98 10:31:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 365 Lines: 9 On Sat, 07 Mar 1998 22:31:12 -0800, David Ledbury said: > Anyone got any copies of the Complete Speccy Rom Disassembly - > Programming the Z80 - or any similar books for sale? FWIW I have got two things published by Bernard Babani. They are: BP112, A Z-80 Workshop Manual by E.A. Parr, and BP152, An Introduction to Z80 Machine Code by R.A. & J.W. Penfold. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 03:40:19 1998 X-Authentication-Warning: holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk: pyumi owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:51:56 +0000 (GMT) From: Mark Sturdy X-Sender: pyumi@holly To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: To hell with the lot of you Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3015 Lines: 60 After five months on the SAM mailing list, I'm unsubscribing, probably for good. Why? Because the five months that I've been on this truly appaling list have been the most depressing of my SAM-owning life. I've seen: * Bigotted misanthropes interested in nothing but flaming hiding under feeble pseudonyms THAT EVERYONE SAW THROUGH YEARS AGO. * Petty and mean-spirited hate campaigns directed at innocent parties. * Private battles fought out in a public arena. * Pompous oafs who seem to think that personal insults and jibing will make their opinions hold more water. * Interminable guff concerning half-arsed ideas for projects that anyone with a brain cell knows will NEVER, EVER GET OFF THE GROUND EVEN IF THIS LIST EXISTS FOR ANOTHER BILLION YEARS. * Morbid, introspective whining concerning things that happened upwards of five years ago and can never be changed. THE SAM HAS BEEN OBSOLETE FOR AS LONG AS IT HAS EXISTED. GET OVER IT. * A list-owner who seems quite happy for this to go on while more and more people get totally sick of the whole stupid situation and disappear from the SAM scene almost daily. In short, the majority of the people who post on this list are COMPLETE AND UTTER WANKERS. Since the start of 1994, I've put as much energy as I can into supporting the SAM through producing a magazine (it's called Crashed, some of you might have heard of it). And despite those FOUR YEARS of building up Crashed, trying to make it a success in the face of all kinds of adversity, there have been so many times since joining the list that I've come close to packing the whole thing in. The question kept on coming back - 'Do these stupid, stupid people really deserve a decent magazine'? Is it a co-incidence that the best SAM service in existence (pretty much the only proper SAM service nowadays, in terms of releasing new products and staying in touch with its customers), Persona, is one of the only ones that isn't on the List? I don't think so. This list is a cancer, eating away at any enthusiasm or affection that any of its subscribers might ever have felt for the SAM. I'd urge anyone who feels as I do to get off the list now. Leave it to the idiots - they won't do as much damage if they've only got each other to fling their shit at. Maybe someone will set up a decent list or newsgroup for intelligent discussion of the SAM one day. Until then, I'm going to carry on supporting the SAM in any way I can, and will doubtless do so much, much better than I have done recently without the waste of time and INBOX space that has been this list. Fuck off, Mark Sturdy. PS You may notice that I have refrained from naming names in my comments regarding the content of this list. If any member of this list attempts to quote from this posting in order to back up thier arguments or go "Now look what you've done", I trust some decent, public-spirited list subscriber (and I think there are a few) will inform me so that I can tell them exactly where to get off. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 08:32:38 1998 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:27:59 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9803100827.AA21958@huth.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Floppy Disks X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 773 Lines: 17 > > I know what you are saying, and I see you point. But there are two ways to go. > 1) give the user/programmer control (as in a DOS or UNIX type system) or 2) > give the OS all the power as in Windoze'95. > > Each is valid, I just think the leaner/meaner system is better. I'm all for the user in control. However, the SAM is complicated enough for the user to really understand what is going on and what to do when changing disc. Just take a look at Format's Help Page. :) The disc interface is a very independet part of the system. You can do that sort of thing without much penalty and the user will say "Thank you". If you are really a control freak you could give the user tha ability to say "AUTO TYPE OFF" or "FORMAT AUTO OFF" or something like that. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 08:42:39 1998 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:59:55 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Ian Dalziel Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: <199803100112.BAA13161@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 666 Lines: 20 In article <199803100112.BAA13161@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk>, Ian Collier writes >On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:32:21 +0000, Ian Dalziel said: >> >I imagine he would provide as evidence the various places that his name has >> >gone into print; also, the number of web pages in existence which contain >> >pictures of him > >> Aw shit - I don't exist. I've suspected this for years, actually. Could >> have worked it out from the Cogito, I suppose. 'Scuse me while I >> vapourise... > >Simon exists therefore you do not? What kind of logic is that? > >imc No, but if printed references and Web pages are the acid test, then I fail. -- Ian Dalziel From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 12:22:12 1998 Message-Id: <199803101014.KAA11969@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:14:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Books! In-reply-to: <199803100117.BAA13181@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> References: <35023B30.5578@postmaster.co.uk> from "David Ledbury" at Mar 7, 98 10:31:12 pm X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 789 Lines: 19 > FWIW I have got two things published by Bernard Babani. They are: > BP112, A Z-80 Workshop Manual by E.A. Parr, and > BP152, An Introduction to Z80 Machine Code by R.A. & J.W. Penfold. is that the little blue sub-A6-size one? dead cute book that. yeh, got one of them too if anyone's interested. ... actually, come to think of it, i do believe i also have a really hefty (hardback) manual for the z80 banging around somewhere... as ever, best offer gets. considering flogging the sam too (esp. after mark sturdy's plea for alliance) and leaving the list... but, as ever, i'll say i'm going to leave the list and then, at the last minute, decide not to. unless everyone else leaves, that is. or unless i can't unsub as i forget which email address i used to sub with... dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 12:22:13 1998 Message-Id: <199803101017.KAA12584@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:16:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SAMDOS stuff In-reply-to: <35036906.1B82@postmaster.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 306 Lines: 13 > And what's BDOS then Dave????? > > (Available on Blitz 7 - plug,plug!) well, if BDOS has already been written, then it's not going to incorporate all this clever stuff we've been talking about is it? (unless it already DOES incorporate caching and autodetection.. which, you know, it might) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 12:22:14 1998 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:34:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@red.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-Reply-To: <9803100827.AA21958@huth.edh-net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1753 Lines: 32 On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Frode Tenneboe wrote: > The disc interface is a very independet part of the system. You can do > that sort of thing without much penalty and the user will say "Thank you". > If you are really a control freak you could give the user tha ability to > say "AUTO TYPE OFF" or "FORMAT AUTO OFF" or something like that. Can somebody tell me why you would ever _want_ to read or write a disk in the wrong format? Trying to read Sam format from an MS_DOS disk or vice versa will just give you piles of indeciperable junk. Trying to write the wrong format will, in all likelyhood, corrupt files already on the disk. Autodetection will not have a great cost in terms of memory or programming time. Just a couple of sector reads, and a couple of comparisons. About 100 bytes, max. The time it takes to do this will probably not be noticable compared to the time it takes for loading or saving a file. The main problem, as SImon has already pointed out, is that you can't check for a Sam disk; you can only check for the lack of MSDOS, CP/M etc. Somebody mentioned the Mac's filing system - as far as I know this will be impossible, because the Mac uses a totally different track / sector layout for DSDD disks (which puts more data on outer tracks, to optimise bit density over the entire disk) which I'm not certain the Sam's disk controller chip can actually cope with. Andrew +----------------------------------------+---------------------------+ | Second Law Of Thermodynamics: | Andrew Collier, 1B NatSci | | If you think things are in a | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | | mess now, just you wait.... | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +----------------------------------------+---------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 12:22:15 1998 Message-Id: <199803101153.LAA04065@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:52:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Floppy Disks References: <9803100827.AA21958@huth.edh-net> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1095 Lines: 25 > The main problem, as SImon has already pointed out, is that you can't > check for a Sam disk; you can only check for the lack of MSDOS, CP/M etc. > Somebody mentioned the Mac's filing system - as far as I know this will be > impossible, because the Mac uses a totally different track / sector layout > for DSDD disks (which puts more data on outer tracks, to optimise bit > density over the entire disk) which I'm not certain the Sam's disk > controller chip can actually cope with. i guess you could read the 1st dir. entry to find out (potentially) about the samdos code on the disk and then read the 1st sector of the start of the dos code file and compare the header 9 bytes with stuff in the dir entry. if it checks out, it's either a samdos disk (with dos on it) or a pretty big coincidence. or some other form of checking a dir. entry (eg track 0 sector 1 side 1) and seeing if it makes sense in terms of samdos wouldn't that work? anyway, with the check for msdos... what's to stop a samdos dir. entry containing those two bytes in the correct place by coincidence? dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 12:22:16 1998 From: The Mad Goose Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:17:53 GMT+0 Subject: sam tech manual X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <12A31527FF@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 499 Lines: 13 if the sam users manual wasn't so crap in the first place, perhaps we wouldn't need much of what the tech manual has to offer. however, i for one would like to see it up on the net because I think that those who were going to buy it will already have it. why not put it up there and only give out the address to those on teh list, so some development can start? Peace, Love, Kisses... Johnna Pig Teare JPOL: http://www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna "I just want my future to live up to my past..." From imc Tue Mar 10 16:39:59 1998 Subject: Re: Function Pointers To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:39:59 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199803080517.AAA26840@smtp2.erols.com> from "Simon Cooke" at Mar 8, 98 00:17:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1984 Lines: 51 On Sun, 8 Mar 1998 00:17:01 -0500 (EST), Simon Cooke said: > I need a quick check on something: > Can function pointers be cast to another type? Yes. > Eg: are the lines below all valid? > int (*comp)(char *, char *); > int *c; > void *v; > long d; > c = (int *)comp; > v=(void *)comp; > d=∁ > > ? All except the last, but d=(long)∁ is valid. However, pointers are allowed to be different sizes so that the result of a cast is not necessarily meaningful. I think that void* has to be capable of holding any type of pointer, though. Only the C standard will say for sure. The problem is that on almost all architectures one address is much the same as any other, so these sorts of things always work. You'll note, however, that compilers for 16-bit Intel architecture have far pointers and near pointers which are different from each other. > The reason I ask is because I'm thinking of using a 4-byte representation of pointers. > type,page,msbaddr,lsbaddr > type= whether it's a pointer to int/ext memory, and if it's a function pointer, if the function has to be run low or high. Well if all pointers have this 4-byte format I don't think there is anything to worry about since the "if the function has to be run low or high" isn't going to be altered by any cast. If you do arithmetic on pointers which are to be used as functions then you lose. Incidentally, I assume you have thought of this, but setting bits 14 and 15 of the address to match the "low or high" thing of any function pointer will help when the function is called. > 2. Provided the size of an array is known at runtime always (and I reckon it is) I can make optimisations on array access for simple data types, and possibly more complex ones. int foobar(int array[]) { /* the size of the array isn't known */ } But then again, this array is (I think) exactly the same as if it were declared "int *array". You can even change its address. imc PS it helps if you wrap your lines... From imc Tue Mar 10 17:15:51 1998 Subject: Re: Floppy Disks To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:15:51 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "BrenchleyR" at Mar 9, 98 10:09:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 473 Lines: 13 On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:09:34 EST, BrenchleyR said: [about auto-detecting disk format] > I know what you are saying, and I see you point. But there are two ways to go. > 1) give the user/programmer control (as in a DOS or UNIX type system) or 2) > give the OS all the power as in Windoze'95. ^^^^ You went wrong there, Bob. On my Linux machine I put a zip disk in and type mount /mnt/zip and the disk gets mounted whether it is MSDOS, HPFS or ext2 (Linux). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:30:37 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <5c086a91.3505394c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:59:54 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 679 Lines: 22 In a message dated 09/03/98 17:53:20, you write: >o > > >> As to how serious things are, I note my question on where the money is >comeing >> from has not been answered yet. > >The money's not coming from anywhere, because this is only a pipe-dream. >SAMSon >will never happen, and we all know it - I said last year that people would >still be arging, and surprisingly enough, people are still arguing, and we're >no >further forwards. And meanwhile the SAM world shrinks, and we fiddle... Well there isn't much, but there has been some money put to one side to cover expences for stage 1 anyway. I think that after that it will be down to how the project is going. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:30:39 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:59:59 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Mostly 'ARMless Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 485 Lines: 14 In a message dated 09/03/98 17:53:54, you write: >> >> (why does netscape go dead when I accidentally press shift-insert?) >> >It's Netscape, it doesn't need a reason. >> Well at least its not a Microsloth product. > >This is true. You can tell the difference, since IE3 doesn't crash, whereas >Netscape falls over with monotonous regularity. But we digress... We do, but all I can say is my Netscrape seems quite stable, well as stable as anything I've compared it with. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:30:39 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <3674b311.35053953@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:00:01 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 633 Lines: 23 In a message dated 09/03/98 17:56:52, you write: >Dave wrote: > >>It'll never happen anyway. They're full of good ideas, but there's no >[snnnnnnnip!] > >HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORAH! Agreed 100%. > >Is there much point in pouring heaps of dosh into building a new SAM or >whatever the hell it is you are all plannning, when it's just you lot >who are going to be buying it anyway? SAM is just a nostalgia machine >now, or a machine for the true fanatic. I don't think it is just 'us lot'. I think a Z80/Z380 machine has a market. It may not be vast, but I think it is there. > > > > >Adie -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:30:53 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <477ebf91.35053952@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:00:00 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Floppy Disks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 978 Lines: 28 In a message dated 09/03/98 17:56:28, you write: [snip lots and lots] >hope you realise now that it's no good saying 'you don't need >autodetection as the OS will just realise that disk is of the wrong >format and give you an error' as the rest of us will just laugh at >you for talking cobblers. Me? Cobblers? Never.... > >if it doesn't autodetect, it doesn't know if the disk is of an >incorrect format. easy as that. > >maybe don't call it autodetect; call it what you want, the point will >still be the same. the OS needs to know what kind of disk format the >disk is in if it is to give the user an error when it's of the wrong >type. i call it autodetect. so sue me. Ok, now I know what you mean by autodetect, I agree. It should at least look, as you say, before it does something. What I don't think it should do is just go off and load a new block of code to deal with the disc format it finds - unless it is told to. -- Bob. > > >thank you for listening. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:30:54 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <1c4d6611.3505395b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:00:08 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Books! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 295 Lines: 16 In a message dated 10/03/98 02:35:35, you write: > >Right! I'm interested! > >BTW Toni Baker (as it was ...) remember this character? Very prone to >turning up to shows in either male or female garb ... > >It takes all sorts ;) > > Well he was, then she, and the books paid for it. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:30:55 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <94961211.3505395b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:00:09 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fighting Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 307 Lines: 20 In a message dated 10/03/98 02:36:27, you write: >o > >Hi I'm new here Welcome. > >Is it always as busy as this? My mailbox is getting really full > No, only when the the arguments start - again :( > >Does anybody know of any new games coming out soon? Yes, but how soon I don't know. > >Pete -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:30:55 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <626db91.3505395d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:00:10 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: the plan for sam Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1798 Lines: 44 In a message dated 10/03/98 02:36:26, you write: >) > > >Bill, > The digitizer... SamCo had a good working version which was about >to be produced but then you know the story of what happened there... no it >wasn't Simon it was the Arabs. If you do not understand that reference then >maybe you do not know why SamCo died. > > Bruce had made a batch of boards and had tested okay. The working >prototype mysteriously disappeared... but never mind. I was then told by >the receivers that Mr Brenchley had taken over the contract for the >digitizer. Incorrect, on the first part anyway. While there may have been a couple of 'hand-made' boards produced, there never was a batch. If there had been then the artwork would be with Swift, and it is not. > >I approached the Format stall at the next All Formats show in London where I >spoke to Colin MacDonald who said Mr Brenchley was abandoning it - strange >that I should hear it from a third party first!!. Mr Brenchley then >confirmed, himself by phone, that he had taken over the contract and later >that he was not bothering with the digitizer. This left the digitizer in >limbo... Because the thing did not work. > >Yes myself and Simon have had a few WORKING (take note) designs such as a >512K Rom board (with 128k SRAM), a working hard disc interface, a high >resolution graphics board complete with lumakey switching. > >As for the current version of the digitizer - well Derek now owns the >designs and I did say I would help him but I moved house 18 months ago and >all my equipment is in the loft in boxes. I still have nowhere to work. So two years later Derek is still left with a non-working prototype, and no hope of recovering any of the money he put into the project. Same old story. [cut lots of crap]. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:30:57 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <44be2b90.3505394f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:59:57 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 666 Lines: 24 In a message dated 09/03/98 17:53:55, you write: >o > > >> The have been complaints on this list for a long time the SAM C was no good >> for writing SAM software because it lacks many features the people on this >> list seem to think C needs. > >Such as easy file handling, floats, decent libraries, an un-bugged to hell >IDE... > >Basically, it's a bad compiler. > >> will need to be hand optimized to improve them. But the experts tell me >that C >> is the way to go for the bulk of the coding and I can see their point. > >Do these experts regularly write operating systems for SAM Coupes? No, but they do have operating system writing experiance. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:30:58 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <98f70491.35053959@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:00:07 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3320 Lines: 82 In a message dated 09/03/98 17:57:01, you write: > >> The SAM is on its last legs. It's dying. We need more programmers. To >> facilitate that, I ask you if you'd mind if I scanned the tech manual in >> and put it on the web. You say you would mind. That in itself is the most >> stupid attitude I can imagine. I mean, how much did you pay the receivers >> for the copyright on it Bob? How many do you sell? How many did you sell >> last Quarter? What's your profit on it? Now, what would you lose by putting >> it up on the web? And what would the whole SAM community that you're so >> fond of defending gain? > >a slightly-related point to ponder: > >if the sam had some kind of online help system, then what would the >users have liked to see in the help files? > >i for one would have plumped for online versions of the manual and >the tech manual > > >oh - but look - online help comes free. i had to buy the tech manual. > >it's difficult to do anything useful without using the tech manual. >i'm sure other computers of the time had useful, free, technical >information. i know that the speccy manual covered a lot of ground >aside from the basics (for example, it included the IN port addresses >for the keyboard, which the normal sam manual did not) and i'm pretty >sure the amiga came with full manuals for all the libraries and >stuff. > >i'm not saying that having to pay for the tech manual was a bad >thing, but i am saying that a lot of technical details for a whole >load of other machines can be found on the internet in one form or >another - except for the sam because Bob won't let us put anything up >there. But a lot of other machines are not still being sold. Look, when a machine is new, you pay for everything. When a machine is old, you pay for the items that no one has been prepared to produce for free. The SAM tech manual is copyright, and still earning money because there is not alternative - nobody has written something to compete with it (unlike the machines you mention). > > >my point? sam IS dead, insofar as that it's user base is never going >to grow (or developer-base, if you will). as a platform, it's pretty >neat, and i for one will use SimCoupe to develop stuff, just to see >how far i can get with some ideas i had almost 10 years ago (got sam >in 1989) > > >if you want the developer base to increase, for what is essentially a >dead, cult, 8-bit micro almost a decade old, then either >a) yor havin a larf aintcha? No. I'm serious. >b) you need to make technical documents freely available For those who are prepared to contribute effort to the project I have always said that I will fund some of the things that will be needed - like the 30 odd copies of the Z380 documents I did last September (and how much feed back did that produce? - ZERO). Like the offer to issue legal copies of Comet. Like the offer I made to Simon last year (or was it now the year before) to provide Simm memory and other bits to do a 1 to 16 Mb memory expansion. Like the offer to build some SRAM cards for people who will help with the rework of the ROM. But there is a big difference between releasing stuff to people who are helping the project and giving anyone who just thinks they may like it free access to the tech manual. > > >nuff said? > > >dave -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:30:58 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:00:12 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Floppy Disks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 904 Lines: 25 In a message dated 10/03/98 10:14:52, you write: >> >> I know what you are saying, and I see you point. But there are two ways to >go. >> 1) give the user/programmer control (as in a DOS or UNIX type system) or 2) >> give the OS all the power as in Windoze'95. >> >> Each is valid, I just think the leaner/meaner system is better. > >I'm all for the user in control. However, the SAM is complicated enough >for the user to really understand what is going on and what to do when >changing disc. Just take a look at Format's Help Page. :) > >The disc interface is a very independet part of the system. You can do >that sort of thing without much penalty and the user will say "Thank you". >If you are really a control freak you could give the user tha ability to >say "AUTO TYPE OFF" or "FORMAT AUTO OFF" or something like that. > > -Frode Within reason, I think I could go along with that. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:31:01 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <7328c990.35053956@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:00:04 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 5787 Lines: 153 In a message dated 09/03/98 17:56:54, you write: >o > >>>The only thing that Bob, Bill and Samsboss have proved on this list so >far is >>>that they are opinionated, unknowledgeable fuckwits*. >> >>I'll remember that remark Mr Cooke. > >Fine -- I remember lots of remarks you've made about other things too. > >But let's be honest here Bob -- it's true, isn't it? I'm sure we've gone >over on the list, for example, lots of reasons why having a *second* >processor design instead of a replacement processor one is a bad idea. But >you keep pushing it. I keep pushing it because it is the ONLY way forward that keeps EXISTING users involved. I will not abandon SAM users, I want to carry them forward. They don't want a new machine, they want upgrades. >Same with the SAMRAM or whatever it is. I mean, for >God's sake, Martin & myself designed the MultiROM years ago -- did anyone >bother contacting us for the design? No. Same with plenty of other stuff >we've worked on. One reason for not looking at the MultiROM was that it was not offered. Another reason, if it had been offered, has to be the past performance on Martin on hardware projects. > >It's like that pathetic excuse about the postal system that you use with >alarming frequency. I'd have thought that if the post was so bad in >Gloucester, you'd have started sending things registered mail. What are you talking about? > >The SAM is on its last legs. It's dying. We need more programmers. To >facilitate that, I ask you if you'd mind if I scanned the tech manual in >and put it on the web. You say you would mind. That in itself is the most >stupid attitude I can imagine. Ah, so it is stupid to give away free something (one of the few things in fact) that still brings in money. You seem to know a lot about business Simon. > I mean, how much did you pay the receivers >for the copyright on it Bob? I've owned the copyright to the Tech Manual since before MGT went down. It was taken in settlement of an outstanding printing bill. Both MGT and then SAMco continued to purchase copies at an agreed price. > How many do you sell? None of you business. > How many did you sell >last Quarter? What's your profit on it? Most certainly none of your business. >Now, what would you lose by putting >it up on the web? And what would the whole SAM community that you're so >fond of defending gain? Nothing, how would the SAM community gain? By us not getting money? Please Simon, engage brain. > >>> >>>The list has gone to pot. People are dropping like flies from the SAM >world. >>>I don't even know if I should bother doing any more work on this C compiler >>>because of this. I've spent 210 pounds on it so far over the last few >days**. >>>It ain't worth it. >>> >>>So shit or get off the pot. Prove who you are, SB and BR, or please fuck >off >>>somewhere else. >> >>Well as I've said before, I do know who Samsboss is. But I don't see any >need >>for anyone to prove who anyone is. > >Bob -- if they were being nice, no-one would care. Once they start getting >abusive, hiding behind an anonymous name is not only cowardice, but it >shows that they're scared of dirtying their own name. So they snipe from >behind cover. It's PATHETIC. They are entitled to their opinions just as much as you are. > >Do you hear me, SAMSBOSS? YOU'RE PATHETIC. IF YOU HAD THE COURAGE OF YOUR >CONVICTIONS, AND ACTUALLY BELIEVED WHAT YOU'RE SAYING RATHER THAN JUST >TRYING TO WIND PEOPLE UP, THEN YOU'D HAVE NO PROBLEM REVEALING YOUR NAME. >BUT YOU DON'T. > >>>simon >>> >>>* USENET definition: someone who holds their opinion as fact erroneously, >and >>>continues to do so after being proved wrong. >> >>Then why did you add me to the list? > >Because you continued to claim that I had some part in the downfall of >SAMCo, even after I proved with *publication dates* (that I could get >38,000 people at least to agree with if I could track them all down), that >I had nothing to do with it. It is a claim that I hold to, because it is true. Remember I was involved, far more than any other person on this list. I mean, did you carry out a full days work in Gloucester, then take an evening train to Swansea, spend most of the night working on the rescue plans, then get back to Gloucester for another days work. No? Well I did, time and time again, working with Alan Miles trying to stop it going completely down the pan. And I can still remember the temper he was in when he phone me with the first news of the daft article you were responsible for. It was the final nail in the Arab bid if nothing else. > >>>** in terms of books I've bought to research it, and my hourly rate. My >>>personal rate, that is, not what I charge for consultancy, which would come >>>to about 940 quid. >> >>Well if we all used an hourly rate god only knows what sort of costs I could >>claim for work I've done on the SAMSON so far. > >Go to it. Take your salary, divide by the number of hours you work per year >-- that should be in terms of 52 weeks a year, 5 days a week, roughly 7.5-8 >hours per day. Multiply by the number of hours you've spent on the project. >There's what its cost you. The number is too big to even think about. > >>But of course, you can't look at things like that can you.... > >I can. I'm just sick of all the sniping that's going on -- and I know I'm >one of the causes of it, but usually without provocation. As well as that, >Samsboss and Bill Ritman are both abusive individuals, who to date have >contradicted their own stories about themselves numerous times, fired off >abusive emails to people on and off this list, and generally behaved >antisocially. This includes the rather major bout of slander that Bill >indulged in on Sunday. Slander? I must have missed something. > >Simon -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:31:01 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <8f1eb91.3505395a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:00:08 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Floppy Disks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 900 Lines: 32 In a message dated 09/03/98 17:57:10, you write: >o > >> It's easier to check for MSDOS format by reading sector 1, track 0, side 1, >> bytes 510 and 511, for &55AA. If it's MasterDOS or SAMDOS format, it won't >> have those bytes there. > >yeh yeh... show off... :) > >the point is, however, that it might be easier to check for MSDOS >format, but doing that still doesn't tell you whether this disk is a >SAMDOS disk!! > >the idea is, in the simplest case, the OS checks that the disk is of >the CORRECT format, not one of a set of potentially INCORRECT >formats! > >suppose you check to see if it's an MS-DOS disk, and it isn't. you >can't then assume that disk is a SAMDOS disk. that's the whole point! >the whole point is that, in the simplest case, the OS only knows >about ITS OWN DISK FORMAT and so this is the only one it can >(validly) check for. > > >dave 100% agree. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:31:01 1998 From: The Mad Goose Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:20:29 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Fighting X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <13BCAA0CDD@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 497 Lines: 19 > >Does anybody know of any new games coming out soon? > > Yes, but how soon I don't know. well flaming well tell us what they are then! the one thing that dissillusions me most is comments like that. i would love to see some new sam software being released - any chance of giving us a sneak preview of what they're about bobby boy? > > > >Pete > > -- > Bob. Peace, Love, Kisses... Johnna Pig Teare JPOL: http://www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna "I just want my future to live up to my past..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:31:04 1998 From: The Mad Goose Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:34:00 GMT+0 Subject: SAMpling X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <13F14A67B7@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1908 Lines: 43 > >But let's be honest here Bob -- it's true, isn't it? I'm sure we've > >gone over on the list, for example, lots of reasons why having a > >*second* processor design instead of a replacement processor one is > >a bad idea. But you keep pushing it. > > I keep pushing it because it is the ONLY way forward that keeps > EXISTING users involved. I will not abandon SAM users, I want to > carry them forward. They don't want a new machine, they want > upgrades. I'm a SAM user. How do you know what I want? Where is your market research? I certainly don't remember being consulted, or sampled for any kind of survey. In fact, the only snapshot of 'SAM User' opinion that I can recall is the one perpetuated by this list. And, on teh whole, that goes along with SImon's argument. Listen, I'm not trying to be a funny bugger here and throw spanners in the works for the sake of it, but if you are wanting to build a machine that SAM users want, and that SAM users will buy then why not listen to the feedback that SAM users give you? It's all free, and a lot of it is valid and useful. Sam users are going to be reluctnat to buy a SRAM card if it does nothing more than turn the ROM soft. They might, however, if it enhanced the machine in otehr ways. I relaise you've got your own plan as to how this project will progress, but perhaps from time to time it might be wise to listne to some of the opinions of the 40 or so people on this list and get a general impression of what the SAM world wants. Do a survery or something, the list won't mind being sampled to provide a snapshot of user opinion, but to carry on building something that a small minority of a small minority wants seems like a waste of resources to me. But then what the f*ck do I know?! Peace, Love, Kisses... Johnna Pig Teare JPOL: http://www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna "I just want my future to live up to my past..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:31:04 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <002565C3.0037BF55.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:34:48 +0000 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM (is a reply to: SamSon - The aim???) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3542 Lines: 101 > But you are not a normal type person then are you? Not the sort that a machine > like SAam or Samson is aimed at. Fine. Obviously, i may be mistaken, the SAM via Format Publishing/Wes Coast Computers isn't being aimed at all potential markets. In that case, reading that comment at face value, I shall take my business elsewhere. Do you really want me to? (And Bob blamed Simon for killing off the SAM. It now sounds like Bill is desecrating the corpse!) Novice hardware engineers like me is EXACTLY the market you should be aiming at. Do you know how many BBC 'B's and Spectrums get picked up at Car Boot sales by people like me who want something cheap and easy to learn hardware design on? For me, the SAM is the obvious choice. It was cheap, easy to use, easy to stick something on the back end with a standard edge connector that you can buy down the high street. It was for THAT reason I got it back out of the loft! (And the fact that I've quite got into MIDI programming) > Out of interest, who do you consider the project "leaders" to be? Those that are assuming command. You, Bob and Samsboss. > IMHO "I like it/I know it" is a very decent explanation. OK. I accept that. Look. I'm quite happy to accept the Z80 based extensions. I'm just fed up with the fighting and you threee rejecting every suggestion. You ask for opinions and then throw them away. I'll give you reasons for choosing the Z380 then since you can't think of any: 1) It is easier to interface the Z380 with the current SAM design via the expansion port. 2) The Z80 is a very good "starting" processor for those who want to learn hardware design because they do have the neccesary hardware interfacing books out there Then again, I'm _STILL_ waiting for that Z380 reference manual from Bob that he said he would give a copy to everyone who asked for it. > No, I'm not an engineer, and nor are most people. If you want to see a > machine build with the engineer in mind go build one. Why do you think I've started my Arcturus and Xenopsys projects? (Other than the fact that I'm fed up with waiting for Format to run off a few units of the SRAM/Flash boards.) The SAM _HAS_ the potential of being an engineer's machine. Well, at least for the novice... > SAM is for humans not engineers. Darn. And there was me thinking that the SAM was built for all users in mind. Sheesh. How wrong could I be? I knew I should've got my dad to buy the BBC micro instead of the Spectrum. Then I wouldn't have seen the SAM as the natural progressor. And I'll be using an Amiga quite happily... > Or sold so someone can enjoy the wonder of the machine. Don't tempt me! I've spent too much money on it now and I have too many projects I want to do. > Makes, no. I doubt if there are more than a handful of people who make their > own cars and even those are from kits. So, there is a market...? There are probably less people who know about the SAM than build/restore their own cars. > But that is hardly the thing we are talking about is it? And I never thought of myself as a business person.... Obviously, you don't either.... Look. I need the help of the real experts on this list. And it's people like you that are pissing them (and me) off. I admit that I over-reacted when you and Bob threw away my suggestion and plan to save the SAM. I was in a bad mood. For that, I'm sorry. If you had given my business-like, economic or technical reasons for keeping a Z80 based processor then I probably wouldn't have said anything. Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:31:06 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <002565C3.004AB200.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:37:26 +0000 Subject: Re: Fighting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 302 Lines: 15 > Hi I'm new here Hi Peter. Welcome. > Is it always as busy as this? My mailbox is getting really full I apologise on behalf of the list. It's just a few emotions getting out of hand. > Does anybody know of any new games coming out soon? Buy Stratosphere! :) (From my unbiased review!) Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:31:07 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310093446.006d77cc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:34:46 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: <7328c990.35053956@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4904 Lines: 125 At 08:00 AM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: >>But let's be honest here Bob -- it's true, isn't it? I'm sure we've gone >>over on the list, for example, lots of reasons why having a *second* >>processor design instead of a replacement processor one is a bad idea. But >>you keep pushing it. > >I keep pushing it because it is the ONLY way forward that keeps EXISTING users >involved. I will not abandon SAM users, I want to carry them forward. They >don't want a new machine, they want upgrades. Duh! Let me repeat what has been said a number of times before: The Z380 design in the accelerator would work as a replacement processor that would run all existing software, except that which relied on the refresh register for calculations. It would run Lemmings in 1 frame. We even managed to get this running with an 11MHz clocked Z80B at the Gloucester show. We also worked out a way to get new disk controllers to *emulate* the existing 1772 controller through software and hardware on the new design. It was a good upgrade path. Now there's no point. Carry on with your plans, Mr. Canute. >>Same with the SAMRAM or whatever it is. I mean, for >>God's sake, Martin & myself designed the MultiROM years ago -- did anyone >>bother contacting us for the design? No. Same with plenty of other stuff >>we've worked on. > >One reason for not looking at the MultiROM was that it was not offered. >Another reason, if it had been offered, has to be the past performance on >Martin on hardware projects. IIRC, we did offer the design as a possibility. Someone would have to check the archives though. >>It's like that pathetic excuse about the postal system that you use with >>alarming frequency. I'd have thought that if the post was so bad in >>Gloucester, you'd have started sending things registered mail. > >What are you talking about? Every time someone doesn't receive something that they've ordered, you put it down to the postal service. >>The SAM is on its last legs. It's dying. We need more programmers. To >>facilitate that, I ask you if you'd mind if I scanned the tech manual in >>and put it on the web. You say you would mind. That in itself is the most >>stupid attitude I can imagine. > >Ah, so it is stupid to give away free something (one of the few things in >fact) that still brings in money. You seem to know a lot about business Simon. Bob, if you were in it for the money, you wouldn't be supporting the SAM. End of story. Putting the tech manual on the web would get the emulator programmers and spectrum programmers in on the game, via SIM Coupe. They might even buy more SAMs. More software. >>Now, what would you lose by putting >>it up on the web? And what would the whole SAM community that you're so >>fond of defending gain? > >Nothing, how would the SAM community gain? By us not getting money? Please >Simon, engage brain. Sorry, I was under the common misconception that the SAM Community is not *you*. >>Bob -- if they were being nice, no-one would care. Once they start getting >>abusive, hiding behind an anonymous name is not only cowardice, but it >>shows that they're scared of dirtying their own name. So they snipe from >>behind cover. It's PATHETIC. > >They are entitled to their opinions just as much as you are. At least I put my name to it. Let's put my cards on the table: You are Bill Ritman. Samsboss is possibly you as well. The thing is, I'm beginning to see no point in you carrying on pretending that you're not Bill or Samsboss, because frankly, you're doing all the sniping under your own name these days. >>Because you continued to claim that I had some part in the downfall of >>SAMCo, even after I proved with *publication dates* (that I could get >>38,000 people at least to agree with if I could track them all down), that >>I had nothing to do with it. > >It is a claim that I hold to, because it is true. Remember I was involved, far >more than any other person on this list. I mean, did you carry out a full days >work in Gloucester, then take an evening train to Swansea, spend most of the >night working on the rescue plans, then get back to Gloucester for another >days work. No? Well I did, time and time again, working with Alan Miles trying >to stop it going completely down the pan. > >And I can still remember the temper he was in when he phone me with the first >news of the daft article you were responsible for. It was the final nail in >the Arab bid if nothing else. Bob, unless you have a time machine, you're talking shit. And frankly, I don't believe that even you, defender of the antiquated computer, self-crowned king of the realm, have a Type-40 time capsule. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:31:07 1998 From: The Mad Goose Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:54:45 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <15560772B0@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 430 Lines: 18 > Bob, unless you have a time machine, you're talking shit. > > And frankly, I don't believe that even you, defender of the > antiquated computer, self-crowned king of the realm, have a Type-40 > time capsule. > Maybe it's just his ego that is bigger on the inside than the out... ;-) > Simon Peace, Love, Kisses... Johnna Pig Teare JPOL: http://www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna "I just want my future to live up to my past..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:31:09 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM. References: <44be2b90.3505394f@aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 10 Mar 1998 15:22:03 +0000 In-Reply-To: BrenchleyR's message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:59:57 EST" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 424 Lines: 15 BrenchleyR writes: > >> will need to be hand optimized to improve them. But the experts > >> tell me that C is the way to go for the bulk of the coding and I > >> can see their point. > > > >Do these experts regularly write operating systems for SAM Coupes? > > No, but they do have operating system writing experiance. Here's hoping I never have to use one of them ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:31:10 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310092454.006c7b38@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:24:54 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: the plan for sam In-Reply-To: <626db91.3505395d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 795 Lines: 19 At 08:00 AM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: >>I approached the Format stall at the next All Formats show in London where I >>spoke to Colin MacDonald who said Mr Brenchley was abandoning it - strange >>that I should hear it from a third party first!!. Mr Brenchley then >>confirmed, himself by phone, that he had taken over the contract and later >>that he was not bothering with the digitizer. This left the digitizer in >>limbo... > >Because the thing did not work. Peculiar that. Seeing as there were pictures from it on the SAMCo Newsdisk and all. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 18:31:10 1998 From: Paul Walker Message-Id: <199803101529.PAA06900@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM. In-Reply-To: <44be2b90.3505394f@aol.com> from BrenchleyR at "Mar 10, 98 07:59:57 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:29:53 +0000 (GMT) X-Approved: bill@whitehouse.gov X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 161 Lines: 6 > >Do these experts regularly write operating systems for SAM Coupes? > No, but they do have operating system writing experiance. On what machines? And when? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 19:15:40 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <457ba1f2.35058b8f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:50:52 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 503 Lines: 16 In a message dated 10/03/98 02:36:09, you write: > > >Can you prove who you are? > > I can and have done; I've put my phone number up, and Bob, Colin MacD, > Chris, Bruce Gordon, Alan Miles, Mark Hall, Colin Piggot... and lots of > other SAM users can do so. I've met them in the flesh. Gone to the pub with > them. Slept at their houses. > > Bill, what do you use the Internet for? > 1: Email. 2: Newsgroups. 3) Local history. 4) just about anything people use the internet for. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 19:15:41 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <9ae76bf2.35058b94@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:50:57 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: the plan for sam Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4203 Lines: 99 In a message dated 10/03/98 02:36:26, you write: > > Bill, > The digitizer... SamCo had a good working version which was about > to be produced but then you know the story of what happened there... no it > wasn't Simon it was the Arabs. If you do not understand that reference then > maybe you do not know why SamCo died. I'm sorry, but either you lie, or several people at Samco, Blue Alpha, West Coast, Format and SAM PD, all lie. Which is it? > > Bruce had made a batch of boards and had tested okay. The working > prototype mysteriously disappeared... but never mind. I was then told by > the receivers that Mr Brenchley had taken over the contract for the > digitizer. > > I approached the Format stall at the next All Formats show in London where I > spoke to Colin MacDonald who said Mr Brenchley was abandoning it - strange > that I should hear it from a third party first!!. Mr Brenchley then > confirmed, himself by phone, that he had taken over the contract and later > that he was not bothering with the digitizer. This left the digitizer in > limbo... > > Yes myself and Simon have had a few WORKING (take note) designs such as a > 512K Rom board (with 128k SRAM), a working hard disc interface, a high > resolution graphics board complete with lumakey switching. If they were working then why do we not have them available to Sam users today? > > As for the current version of the digitizer - well Derek now owns the > designs and I did say I would help him but I moved house 18 months ago and > all my equipment is in the loft in boxes. I still have nowhere to work. So why did you sell him a dud then? > Today I was literally up to my neck in SHIT putting in a new water main - > this is one of the less major jobs to do to satisfy the mortgage lenders and > insurers.. I no longer have time to piss about. Quite frankly I have more > important/interesting things to do than waste my time creating a machine > that will have no market or add-ons for the SAM that no one will buy. Two > or three years ago maybe ... but not now ... it's way, way too late. So now your design doen't work, you hide away.... > > You now know the full story. If you lost money with SamCo sorry, but don't > blame me.. I was informed that my hands were tied contractually. On top of > that I have since been given information that this was not the case. From > what I have heard there was a lot of skullduggery went on in the wake of > SamCo but I don't care anymore. No, your lack of care has been obvious. Derek Morgan is a bloody good guy, and I thing you owe him at least a public apology for the way you have treated him. > > > You complain that we kept coming out with prototypes but nothing in the > guise of a final product. That's simple - they were all nothing more than > test bed prototypes. They were designed with a lot of thought and > consideration so that > > a) they prove or disprove the viability of various ideas > > b) they could be plugged into the back of the standard 8 bit SAM and give it > improved features > > c) they could also be plugged into a 16 bit system and use the full > capabilities of the new machine hence reducing upgrade costs for the new > machine. > > We have solved most of the problems regarding upgrade / new machine paths. > We have been actively encouraged by some (thanks) and derided by others as > fly-by-night vapourware pedlars. > > If you want to build a new machine, Simon and myself have learned a lot (not > because we're clever; but because we made the effort) and could offer a lot. > However, you seem positive that you want to re-invent the wheel. Okay, go > on then. > > BTW did you ever see the 11MHz Sam prototype at the Gloucester show? I did, and then heard the estimates of what it was going to cost to get it working. I think you live in a dream world. > > > Now for the big one. I have not seen a hint about EMC anywhere in this > discussion. I would certainly not put my name anywhere near a new machine > that has not been certified. Good. Now go away and get a working digitiser done for Derek Morgan. > Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 19:15:47 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:50:54 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1577 Lines: 37 In a message dated 10/03/98 02:36:16, you write: >[Cut long irrelivent list.] > Yet on the whole, the people who know the most have their views ignored. So whay do you keep ignoring Bob then? I notice you left him off your list. > Is it any wonder that we get annoyed with the situation? I can see well how he gets annoyed. > The same debates rattle on and on and on, over and over again. With no > conclusion. Because the people who insist on making those points won't > listen to reasoned arguments. Yes, I've noticed that, Bob puts forward any argument and he gets shot down. You or Andrew put forward an argument and you are so big headed that your argument just has to be reasoned. Come on. > I've been programming Z80 machine code for 15 years now. I've helped Martin > design hardware for the SAM that would push it way beyond its current limits. But what have you done that has been even remotely commercial? It is alright designing the latest wiz-bang, but if it is not commercial then where is the advance. > > > Frankly, yes, that does give me superior knowledge. Of what, Z80 coding? Maybe you are right there. But that is only part of what you need to claim superior knowledge. Keep in mind your youth, some knowledge only comes with the passing of time you know. > But that doesn't make me feel superior. The stop acting it. > I'll listen to reasoned arguments and agree with them if they're, as I see > them correct. > > I'll also quite happily change my stance and apologise if I've offended > when I'm proved wrong. > > Simon > Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 19:15:49 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <60c62f72.35058b95@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:50:59 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Books! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 603 Lines: 18 In a message dated 10/03/98 02:36:52, you write: > > On Sat, 07 Mar 1998 22:31:12 -0800, David Ledbury said: > > Anyone got any copies of the Complete Speccy Rom Disassembly - > > Programming the Z80 - or any similar books for sale? > > FWIW I have got two things published by Bernard Babani. They are: > BP112, A Z-80 Workshop Manual by E.A. Parr, and > BP152, An Introduction to Z80 Machine Code by R.A. & J.W. Penfold. > > imc Now I know this is a silly question, but why not under your own name? Just wondering, not trying to make anything of it before flames start flying. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 19:15:50 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <002565C3.00677D73.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:51:02 +0000 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 154 Lines: 9 > It was a good upgrade path. Now there's no point. Carry on with your plans, > Mr. Canute. WHAT?!?! Bob's my Departmental manager aswell???? Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 19:40:55 1998 X-Authentication-Warning: crimson.mono.org: unc owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:28:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Tim Paveley To: Sam Users Mailing List Subject: Bye... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 589 Lines: 15 Okay, I've only been lurking for the last few months, mainly poor to due net access, but since all I've been doing wheenver I log on is delete 95% of emails from this list without looking at them, may as well give up as well. Anyone want to chat, you're more than welcome to send me an email, but I warn you in advance I'm crap at getting around to replying :) Chill out, the whirlpools cometh. ....@/ .............................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - Moderator of "The Games Room" & "Ascii Animations" http://www.mono.org/~unc/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 19:58:45 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310140606.006d7158@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:06:06 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: <457ba1f2.35058b8f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 556 Lines: 16 At 01:50 PM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: >> Bill, what do you use the Internet for? >> >1: Email. 2: Newsgroups. 3) Local history. 4) just about anything people use >the internet for. To quote Withnail & I; Are you a sponge or a stone? Or rather, do you post on Newsgroups, or do you just read what's there? Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 19:58:46 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310140509.006d6154@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:05:09 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: the plan for sam In-Reply-To: <9ae76bf2.35058b94@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2101 Lines: 59 >> The digitizer... SamCo had a good working version which was about >> to be produced but then you know the story of what happened there... no it >> wasn't Simon it was the Arabs. If you do not understand that reference then >> maybe you do not know why SamCo died. > >I'm sorry, but either you lie, or several people at Samco, Blue Alpha, West >Coast, Format and SAM PD, all lie. Which is it? Bill, before you go on, may I suggest that you name all of your sources? Including the people at West Coast who for some reason were present for you to be able to talk to? In fact, I think in the whole history of this list, other than Bob, you're the *ONLY* person who's ever talked to the mysterious West Coast. >> Yes myself and Simon have had a few WORKING (take note) designs such as a >> 512K Rom board (with 128k SRAM), a working hard disc interface, a high >> resolution graphics board complete with lumakey switching. > >If they were working then why do we not have them available to Sam users >today? Lack of interest. Take the Gemini comms interface design that I put together and put online. Not prototyped, but it was enough for someone to give it a go. A good starting point, in fact. To my knowledge, no-one took that design and did anything with it. >> BTW did you ever see the 11MHz Sam prototype at the Gloucester show? > >I did, and then heard the estimates of what it was going to cost to get it >working. I think you live in a dream world. Oh really? And where did you hear these estimates? From whom? Repeat what you heard. Verbotem if possible. >>>> everyone else <<<< Hey! Guess what! Bill Ritman has talked to West Coast! I think this must be a miracle, or a whole new record or something! He's managed to do something that *NO* other SAM user has ever done! Wahey! All praise the great Bill Ritman! Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 19:58:46 1998 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:51:16 +0000 (GMT) From: Dave Handley To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: <457ba1f2.35058b8f@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1603 Lines: 39 > > Bill, what do you use the Internet for? > > > 1: Email. 2: Newsgroups. 3) Local history. 4) just about anything people use > the internet for. > > Bill. Sh*t, I've actually reached the point where this Bill\Bob thing is beginning to bug me now! Didn't realise I was that sad! Bill, have you ever contributed to anything before, either on the SAM, the internet, anything other than this list? I'm assuming you only use the Bill Ritman name for this list 'cos you don't seem to exist anywhere else? For someone who, it would seem, has done nothing for the SAM (and I'm certainly not claiming to have done much, so don't feel the need to ask) you seem to know an awful lot of SAM people, you've attended a lot of shows and appear to know a lot of SAM info which most ordinary users don't. How? Did I miss something? Is it just a coincidence that I receive a bunch of mail from bob, then a few from other people, then a bunch from bill, a few from other people, a bunch from bob etc. etc. etc. Its just, well, sad really. Completely sad. Or something. Anyway, I've had my whinge, reckon I'll go and give the latest SIMcoupe a try. Just wanna say thanks to those who pointed out my stupidity when trying to run a renamed zip file...I've got it working now! Dave ,---------------------------------------------------------, ,/ Dave Handley / ,/ Email - d.handley@lancaster.ac.uk /' / Visit - http://www.lancs.ac.uk/ug/handley/index.htm /' `---------------------------------------------------------' From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:32 1998 Message-ID: <3504BF01.7BA4@postmaster.co.uk> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 20:18:09 -0800 From: David Ledbury Organization: The Foundation for Green Eggs & Ham X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Books! References: <1c4d6611.3505395b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 595 Lines: 29 BrenchleyR wrote: > > In a message dated 10/03/98 02:35:35, you write: > > > > >Right! I'm interested! > > > >BTW Toni Baker (as it was ...) remember this character? Very prone to > >turning up to shows in either male or female garb ... > > > >It takes all sorts ;) > > > > > > Well he was, then she, and the books paid for it. > > -- > Bob. :) As I said, it takes all-sorts :) Show's how much there was to be made in those books in the early days... those Op's are not expensive from what I've been told! David [BTW... Nice to see your "kill-file" up and running as well as ever :)] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:34 1998 Message-Id: <199803102023.UAA18626@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:23:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Anonymous Users References: <457ba1f2.35058b8f@aol.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 384 Lines: 12 > Anyway, I've had my whinge, reckon I'll go and give the latest SIMcoupe a > try. Just wanna say thanks to those who pointed out my stupidity when > trying to run a renamed zip file...I've got it working now! heh yeh, i'm going to try it now. does it support SAM snapshots yet? (SIMCOUPE snapshots that is, not yr crappy speccy stuff). it's certainly what's needed next. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:34 1998 Message-Id: <199803102027.UAA18900@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:26:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Books! In-reply-to: <3504BF01.7BA4@postmaster.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 162 Lines: 6 > Show's how much there was to be made in those books in the early days... > those Op's are not expensive from what I've been told! you mean cheap, right? dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:35 1998 Message-ID: <3504C191.6850@postmaster.co.uk> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 20:29:05 -0800 From: David Ledbury Organization: The Foundation for Green Eggs & Ham X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SAMDOS stuff References: <199803101017.KAA12584@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 525 Lines: 19 Dave Hooper wrote: > > > And what's BDOS then Dave????? > > > > (Available on Blitz 7 - plug,plug!) > > well, if BDOS has already been written, then it's not going to > incorporate all this clever stuff we've been talking about is > it? >From what I understand, it's being constantly developed and improved. [The one advantage of software over hardware ;)] > (unless it already DOES incorporate caching and autodetection.. > which, you know, it might) > > dave Well Edwin may be listening to ideas such as this ... ;) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:36 1998 Message-ID: <3504C235.264F@postmaster.co.uk> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 20:31:49 -0800 From: David Ledbury Organization: The Foundation for Green Eggs & Ham X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Fighting References: <002565C3.004AB200.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 649 Lines: 24 Justin_Skists@case.co.uk wrote: > > > Hi I'm new here > > Hi Peter. Welcome. And hello from me too ;) > > Is it always as busy as this? My mailbox is getting really full > I apologise on behalf of the list. It's just a few emotions getting > out of hand. Yeah... I wont claim it's a friendly bunch in here all of the time... but just think of it as a footy match with the typical rowdy bunch at the back ;) Most of us are scarf waving supporters tho. > > Does anybody know of any new games coming out soon? I know there's a few good'uns underway - but... > Buy Stratosphere! :) (From my unbiased review!) > Justin. I'll second that one! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:37 1998 Message-ID: <3504C36C.422B@postmaster.co.uk> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 20:37:00 -0800 From: David Ledbury Organization: The Foundation for Green Eggs & Ham X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Anonymous Users References: <3.0.1.32.19980310093446.006d77cc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1544 Lines: 45 Simon Cooke wrote: > > Duh! > > Let me repeat what has been said a number of times before: > > The Z380 design in the accelerator would work as a replacement processor > that would run all existing software, except that which relied on the > refresh register for calculations. > > It would run Lemmings in 1 frame. We even managed to get this running with > an 11MHz clocked Z80B at the Gloucester show. And it was pretty impressive indeed for a prototype model! Showed a hell of a lot of potential.... > We also worked out a way to get new disk controllers to *emulate* the > existing 1772 controller through software and hardware on the new design. WHAT?!! I think I did toy with that idea myself as a possibility (processor based emulator trapping inputs and translating them to another disk controller...) but how far did it go? > It was a good upgrade path. Now there's no point. Carry on with your plans, > Mr. Canute. :( > >>Same with the SAMRAM or whatever it is. I mean, for > >>God's sake, Martin & myself designed the MultiROM years ago -- did anyone > >>bother contacting us for the design? No. Same with plenty of other stuff > >>we've worked on. > > > >One reason for not looking at the MultiROM was that it was not offered. > >Another reason, if it had been offered, has to be the past performance on > >Martin on hardware projects. > > IIRC, we did offer the design as a possibility. Someone would have to check > the archives though. Not only that - it was a brilliant piece of work... and it worked very well! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:38 1998 Message-ID: <3504C409.47F9@postmaster.co.uk> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 20:39:37 -0800 From: David Ledbury Organization: The Foundation for Green Eggs & Ham X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: the plan for sam References: <3.0.1.32.19980310092454.006c7b38@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 926 Lines: 28 Simon Cooke wrote: > > At 08:00 AM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: > >>I approached the Format stall at the next All Formats show in London where I > >>spoke to Colin MacDonald who said Mr Brenchley was abandoning it - strange > >>that I should hear it from a third party first!!. Mr Brenchley then > >>confirmed, himself by phone, that he had taken over the contract and later > >>that he was not bothering with the digitizer. This left the digitizer in > >>limbo... > > > >Because the thing did not work. > > Peculiar that. Seeing as there were pictures from it on the SAMCo Newsdisk > and all. Don't you know Simon? The greatest artist on the SAM ever... me ... hand drew them. Duh! Of course it worked! Although perhaps, being a prototype shoved into boxes, it didnt work by the time Colin & Bob got it shipped to them.... Remember the "SpamCo" adventure Bob....? The graphics were not generated on the Speccy. > Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:39 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310153542.006ddb4c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:35:42 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-Reply-To: <199803101153.LAA04065@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <9803100827.AA21958@huth.edh-net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 782 Lines: 21 At 11:52 AM 3/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >anyway, with the check for msdos... what's to stop a samdos dir. >entry containing those two bytes in the correct place by coincidence? Already researched it; it won't. I promise. the &AA entry would mean that the disk had 174 tracks on side 1 available for use as directory entries. This can't ever happen ;) In SAMDOS, that entry is either &00 or &FF. Dunno about +G/DOS (though it's the same source code really, so that shouldn't be a problem), or any of the specially released +D DOS's Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:40 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310153727.006dd7ac@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:37:27 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-Reply-To: References: <9803100827.AA21958@huth.edh-net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1161 Lines: 25 >The main problem, as SImon has already pointed out, is that you can't >check for a Sam disk; you can only check for the lack of MSDOS, CP/M etc. >Somebody mentioned the Mac's filing system - as far as I know this will be >impossible, because the Mac uses a totally different track / sector layout >for DSDD disks (which puts more data on outer tracks, to optimise bit >density over the entire disk) which I'm not certain the Sam's disk >controller chip can actually cope with. Yep... the Mac uses NZR formatting as opposed to MFM formatting, and constant linear velocity instead of constant angular velocity. On the up side, it means that it doesn't have to use precompensation on inner tracks. On the downside, you have to have a variable speed motor in the drive! The 1772-02 can't handle anything but constant angular velocity, MFM/FM format disks. And even then, the SAM has it hard wired to MFM only. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:41 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310153828.006e06e0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:38:28 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Peter Farrell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 306 Lines: 10 Um... folks... I think we scared him off. He's unsubbed. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:42 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310154847.006df60c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:48:47 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: <3504C36C.422B@postmaster.co.uk> References: <3.0.1.32.19980310093446.006d77cc@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2369 Lines: 54 At 08:37 PM 3/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >> We also worked out a way to get new disk controllers to *emulate* the >> existing 1772 controller through software and hardware on the new design. > >WHAT?!! I think I did toy with that idea myself as a possibility >(processor based >emulator trapping inputs and translating them to another disk >controller...) but >how far did it go? Well, we were going to reserve one of the interrupt segments and register sets for the purpose ... I think there's an article on it in the (not released yet) 3rd issue of BOAI. Basically, it involved checking for an IO operation on the Bus. This would fire off an interrupt (if the facility was turned on), from which point a ROM routine would look at the stack, work out where the IO operation occurred, knowing it was an IO, it could step back and find the instruction that was attempted, and depending on whether it was an input or an output operation, it would assign values to registers, or use values *from* registers to translate the IO into something meaningful for the real hardware. Simple really. Well, kind of. I can't remember whether it would get the address from the stack, or stick it in a 16-bit register. Needless to say, the IO translation (AFAIK) would have been for the Z80 mode only. Of course, it's been a long time since I read the specs we came up with, so I may be talking bollocks. Wouldn't be the first time. >> IIRC, we did offer the design as a possibility. Someone would have to check >> the archives though. > >Not only that - it was a brilliant piece of work... and it worked very >well! After the show, we discovered that in some of the bodges we'd done to get it working, we'd screwed up the PCB. But, as it was done by hand by Martin, it wasn't bad at all. I used the MultiROM for screenshots, and some development work. And anyway, that was a prototype, not a finished board. (The problem was that you'd write to the ROM register, and I think one of the lines was tied to the wrong value, so you'd get a ROM hole where you needed a RAM one...) But the design was sound; that's the important thing. Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 21:26:42 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310154954.006cf874@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:49:54 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Peter Farrell In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980310153828.006e06e0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 418 Lines: 17 At 03:38 PM 3/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >Status: > >Um... folks... I think we scared him off. > >He's unsubbed. But, on a lighter note, Nev's back! >waves< hello Nev! Simon *********************************************************** *Product Development Specialist/WebMaster/Graphic Designer* *Systems Architect/Analyst/GUI Design Manager/GDB/-cookie-* *********************************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 22:29:00 1998 From: Maria Rookyard To: sam-users Subject: Re: Fighting Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:08:56 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 342 Lines: 14 > Hi I'm new here Hi Pete, welcome to the jungle :) > Does anybody know of any new games coming out soon? If it's games you're after, do you know about Persona? Try emailing them on persona@clara.net (I /think/ I've remembered that right - if not, can someone correct me please?) I'm sure they'll be happy to send you details. Maria. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 22:48:46 1998 Message-ID: <3504E178.395D@postmaster.co.uk> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 22:45:12 -0800 From: David Ledbury Organization: The Foundation for Green Eggs & Ham X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Books! References: <199803102027.UAA18900@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 221 Lines: 10 Dave Hooper wrote: > > > Show's how much there was to be made in those books in the early days... > > those Op's are not expensive from what I've been told! > > you mean cheap, right? > > dave Whooops! Good point! :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 23:12:03 1998 From: davidm@enterprise.net (David Munden) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:06:00 GMT Message-ID: <35085fa0.1843471@mail.enterprise.net> References: <199803090022.TAA02482@smtp2.erols.com> <35043c8f.4818379@mail.enterprise.net> In-Reply-To: <35043c8f.4818379@mail.enterprise.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 260 Lines: 14 On Mon, 09 Mar 1998 00:49:41 GMT, you wrote: >On Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:22:38 -0500 (EST), you wrote: > >>Okay, I've just about had enough of this. >> >>Who is Samsboss? >>Can Bill Ritman prove that they exist? > >I'm past caring. :( Ditto. _ |_)avid (\/)unden From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 23:12:04 1998 From: davidm@enterprise.net (David Munden) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:06:02 GMT Message-ID: <35095fc5.1879957@mail.enterprise.net> References: <199803091118.LAA09791@lupin.csv.warwick.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <199803091118.LAA09791@lupin.csv.warwick.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 275 Lines: 13 On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:18:32 +0000 (GMT), you wrote: > >> Who is Samsboss? >> Can Bill Ritman prove that they exist? > >Er ... samsboss, maybe, but as for Bill - Simon, can you prove you exist, >please? I`ve met him. What an unpleasant experience. :) _ |_)avid (\/)unden From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 23:23:23 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ILGW @ C&L NL @ C&L INT @ C&L INT EXTERNAL@INTERLIANT @ OUTBOUND From: Stefan Drissen To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Message-ID: <862565C3.007FCA09.00@Internet-504.interliant.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:42:35 +0100 Subject: Re: SAM Brains Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4019 Lines: 87 >Oops... forgot some people... > >Take a bow, Stefan Drissen and Edwin Blink! > >Simon Ta Simon, but you did mention "active". Unfortunately I'm not quite able to meet that criteria... ...in the SAM sense that is :) Despite Frode's dislike of kicking people off the list I personally would prefer some kind of voting system whereby the majority can chuck people off. Some of these "arguements" are such a waste of time, I'm amazed that the responsible parties (as far as I can tell one responsible person) have nothing better to do. As to BDOS: although at first being rather sceptical that a disc image system on a hard disc would work. I've used Edwin's hard drive a few weeks ago and it works beautifully! For a computer like the SAM a WORKING hard disc interface with a 100% WORKING DOS (even if it uses disc images) is a lot better start than a HALF working hard disc interface with a NON-WORKING DOS (no offence Nev - but a working DOS was needed much much much sooner). BDOS does NOT incorporate cacheing - but who is all that interested in caching on a floppy drive when you'll end up using a hard drive most of the time anyway? For all the people still waiting for the SAM_CLOCK, Edwin has already got a clock thingy for the SAM which makes use of standard PC clocks (or something) and works just fine (including an interrupt timer - hooray! no more hassles with using line interrupts and software timing to get samples output). Speaking of which, David Ledbury: you thought 60 quids was well worth the money for a sound card - but reckon 70 quids is the maximum for a processor / whatever upgrade??? (not that this is going to happen... let's be honest). As to the technical manual not being put on the web. I find it VERY hard to believe that there is actually money even dripping in for that. I find it VERY hard to believe that there is any money dripping in for ANY item for the SAM. So I have to back up the fact that Simon's brain is actually engaged. IMHO dump ALL SAM stuff onto the web for FREE access for the few users still remaining so that it might help in stalling the complete extincition of the SAM community. Okay, so the skints who didn't fork out for the products when they were new get an advantage. But an advantage for ANYONE in the remaining SAM scene can lead to an advantage for the whole SAM community. On that note, hmmmm, Sophistry license runs out pretty soon.... (pity that the game idea is by someone else...) just my rather fed up 2 guilders. :) Stefan Drissen _____ ___ _ ___ ______ ___ ____ / _// \| | /\ | \ | _/ | /\ | \ _/ aka \_ \| || |__ / \| / | _|| |__ / \| / _| of ENTROPY /____/\___/\____\____\_|_\ |_| \____\____\_|_\___\ / \ / Email: Stefan_Drissen@nl.coopers.com / drissen@pi.net \ / Godevaert Montensstraat 17, 4811 PD BREDA, The Netherlands \ / telephone: +31-76-5141305 \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- -- **************************************** This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. **************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 10 23:23:23 1998 From: davidm@enterprise.net (David Munden) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: game uploaded Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:19:50 GMT Message-ID: <3506c975.871236@mail.enterprise.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 278 Lines: 6 Just to let you know that I have uploaded a zipped copy of occult connection to nvg and when it clears you can get it if you want to. If you do decide to play it then please do send me an email on what you think as it has been a long time since I wrote it. _ |_)avid (\/)unden From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 00:17:21 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <626db91.3505395d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:13:51 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: the plan for sam X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 868 Lines: 20 At 1:00 pm +0000 10/3/98, BrenchleyR wrote: >So two years later Derek is still left with a non-working prototype, and no >hope of recovering any of the money he put into the project. Same old story. Actually I distinctly remember being digitised. By Derek Morgan. Who had bought a video camera and a Sam digitiser to a Gloucester show about eighteen months ago. Andrew --- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 00:28:12 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310192041.006dc4f0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:20:41 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4122 Lines: 97 At 01:50 PM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: >>[Cut long irrelivent list.] >> Yet on the whole, the people who know the most have their views ignored. > >So whay do you keep ignoring Bob then? I notice you left him off your list. Because my views are shared by others. And if you think I'm going to believe Bob when he says I had a hand in the downfall of SAMCo, you have another thing coming. What date did the Arabs pull out of negotiations on? >> I've been programming Z80 machine code for 15 years now. I've helped Martin >> design hardware for the SAM that would push it way beyond its current >limits. >But what have you done that has been even remotely commercial? It is alright >designing the latest wiz-bang, but if it is not commercial then where is the >advance. Comet 2 ASCII / vice versa SAM Screen to bitmap converter One routine of mine is in Prince of Persia. Another, based on mine is in Exodus. Design work and graphics (as well as my fader routine) are in Lemmings, including some debugging on the small colour lemmings map. Bubble Bobble prototype -- which wasn't viable, as there was no way that SAMCo could get the license. ZUB work -- which due to corrupt disks was unfinished. Parallax disk copy protection routines. Design notes for FRED's WordMaster product. Additional routines for COMET assembler that disappeared into the void that is Colin Jordan's disk box. Work on Populous with Chris (mouse detection and scrolling front screen work). Based On An Idea issues 1, 2 and the nearly finished issue 3. QDOS - clean SAMDOS update with system detection. Numerous menus and demo's for FRED. Articles for FRED. Articles for Enceladus. Graphics for FRED. FRED Disk Magazine reader program -- which is *STILL* being used. Entropy Experience disk for Phoenix. Oh yes, and I came up with the location of the strings in the ROM that allowed us to produce the HominROM. Which doesn't take much, but it's definitely commercial. And if you don't include the demo's, then you've just removed part of what made FRED disk magazine what it was. >> Frankly, yes, that does give me superior knowledge. >Of what, Z80 coding? Maybe you are right there. But that is only part of what >you need to claim superior knowledge. Keep in mind your youth, some knowledge >only comes with the passing of time you know. Actually, I think what you mean is that some knowledge only comes with experience. And that is what I have. Experience. What I lack in experience, I make up by asking people for information. Articles that I've written (and this is off topic, but at this point, who cares any more) have been used by the Labour Government in deciding their Internet policy, have been translated into many languages, have been used in the US Senate as part of the fight against the ineptly named Communications Decency bill, have been used by Queen's University Belfast to set Communications Media essays on, and are standard reading in Australia for a number of universities Internet training for students. One of my articles sold out an entire print run of a magazine. Another of them is preserved for posterity in a time capsule in the foundations of a building in London. I've been quoted on the net in a number of documents, including in multiple places on the website of the National Centre for Education in Technology. I've also been quoted in the same breath as Bill Gates and Nicholas Negroponte. I'm 22. I did most of this when I was 20 or younger. Of late, I've been programming full time trying to make a career of it, rather than eeking out a living from writing, which never paid on time. So remember this. Experience does not mean age. >> But that doesn't make me feel superior. >The stop acting it. Bill, give me examples of how I'm feeling superior. And then I'll listen to them, and reply to them. Simon +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "You know... you can tell someone's vain when they quote themselves | | in their own .sig file..." -- Simon Cooke | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 00:28:12 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310192146.006daeb8@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:21:46 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Books! In-Reply-To: <60c62f72.35058b95@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 516 Lines: 14 At 01:50 PM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: >> imc > >Now I know this is a silly question, but why not under your own name? > >Just wondering, not trying to make anything of it before flames start flying. IMC = Ian M* Collier. Simon +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "You know... you can tell someone's vain when they quote themselves | | in their own .sig file..." -- Simon Cooke | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 00:32:38 1998 Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:29:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Dave Handley To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: SamEmu?!? In-Reply-To: <199803102023.UAA18626@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 505 Lines: 15 Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but has anybody tried the SamEmu emulator yet... http://www.inf.upol.cz/~keprta/sam/samemu/welcome.htm ...I reckon I'll give it a try. Dave ,---------------------------------------------------------, ,/ Dave Handley / ,/ Email - d.handley@lancaster.ac.uk /' / Visit - http://www.lancs.ac.uk/ug/handley/index.htm /' `---------------------------------------------------------' From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 00:35:54 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310192904.006daa44@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:29:04 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SamEmu?!? In-Reply-To: References: <199803102023.UAA18626@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 625 Lines: 18 At 12:29 AM 3/11/98 +0000, you wrote: >Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but has anybody tried the >SamEmu emulator yet... > >http://www.inf.upol.cz/~keprta/sam/samemu/welcome.htm > >...I reckon I'll give it a try. 's not bad -- no Mode 1,2 emulation, no sound, no line interrupts, no disk support... But a good start. Simon +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "You know... you can tell someone's vain when they quote themselves | | in their own .sig file..." -- Simon Cooke | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 00:47:17 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <60c62f72.35058b95@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:38:32 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Books! X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 780 Lines: 24 At 6:50 pm +0000 10/3/98, BillRitman wrote: >> imc > >Now I know this is a silly question, but why not under your own name? > >Just wondering, not trying to make anything of it before flames start flying. > >Bill. Then who else's name is Ian Mark Collier? Andrew Stephen Collier --- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 00:47:18 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <7328c990.35053956@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:38:29 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Anonymous Users X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2762 Lines: 63 At 1:00 pm +0000 10/3/98, BrenchleyR wrote: >>But let's be honest here Bob -- it's true, isn't it? I'm sure we've gone >>over on the list, for example, lots of reasons why having a *second* >>processor design instead of a replacement processor one is a bad idea. But >>you keep pushing it. > >I keep pushing it because it is the ONLY way forward that keeps EXISTING users >involved. I will not abandon SAM users, I want to carry them forward. They >don't want a new machine, they want upgrades. But a processor *upgrade* is EXACTLY what has been proposed... one of the various designs which had been suggestted, and which you've ignored, was based on similar priciples to the (demonstrated working at a Gloucester show) accelerator but with extra memory and a few other enhancements. That would have plugged into the back of the Sam. It would have run (and speeded up) Sam software. IT WOULD HAVE KEPT EXISTING SAM USERS INVOLVED. IT WOULD NOT HAVE ABANDONED EXISTING SAM USERS. >It is a claim that I hold to, because it is true. Remember I was involved, far >more than any other person on this list. I mean, did you carry out a full days >work in Gloucester, then take an evening train to Swansea, spend most of the >night working on the rescue plans, then get back to Gloucester for another >days work. No? Well I did, time and time again, working with Alan Miles trying >to stop it going completely down the pan. > >And I can still remember the temper he was in when he phone me with the first >news of the daft article you were responsible for. It was the final nail in >the Arab bid if nothing else. Let's draw up a timeline. I buy Crash. It advertises Newsdisk, and I start buying that too. Then Crash goes bust and I only buy Newsdisk for a while. THEN SamCo goes down. THEN I notice that Your Sinclair actually features the Sam Robot on the cover. That's because it has news of a possible rescue bid by West Coast Computers. A certain Robert Brenchley is mentioned in the article. SOME MONTHS LATER there's an article about a tentative ASIC project. Now. Bob. Please answer this one question if no other. How the hell is that article supposed to have been a factor in SamCo's collapse given that it was published months after the event? Andrew --- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 00:53:08 1998 From: chris To: sam-users Subject: Re: SimCoupe developement version 0.76 Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:39:48 -0800 Message-ID: <01bd4cc9$4039a8e0$be075cc3@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 404 Lines: 19 >Hi All, > >I've put up the latest developement version of SimCoupe (v0.76) on >the snapshot webpage (DOS binary) > >http://www.hep.ucl.ac.uk/~ajs/simcoupe > >Please give it a try. > >Allan Hi Allan, Just tried new verison all seems okay except when in high res mode it is not stretching the new mode over the whole display ???. My Card is an ATI64 and does support this mode. any Ideas??? Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 01:27:14 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980310153542.006ddb4c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> References: <199803101153.LAA04065@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> <9803100827.AA21958@huth.edh-net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:23:39 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Floppy Disks X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1630 Lines: 40 At 8:35 pm +0000 10/3/98, Simon Cooke wrote: >At 11:52 AM 3/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >>anyway, with the check for msdos... what's to stop a samdos dir. >>entry containing those two bytes in the correct place by coincidence? > >Already researched it; it won't. I promise. > >the &AA entry would mean that the disk had 174 tracks on side 1 available >for use as directory entries. > >This can't ever happen ;) > >In SAMDOS, that entry is either &00 or &FF. Dunno about +G/DOS (though it's >the same source code really, so that shouldn't be a problem), or any of the >specially released +D DOS's Hang about... Bytes 510 and 511 are in the SECOND dir entry! So we look at byte 255 for the number of extra DIR tracks. IIRC the number is 255 for any SamDos formatted disk, and 0 for a MasterDos formatted disk without extra DIR tracks. I think that's the only way to tell them apart. Byte 511 is undefined in the docs, but it's contents are probably invariant. Byte 510 is unlikely to hold &55 but it's not impossible. It implies there are at least 85 subdirectories on the disk, and that the second file is in exactly the 85th. Andrew --- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 01:49:42 1998 X-Authentication-Warning: lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk: pyumi owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:43:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Mark Sturdy X-Sender: pyumi@lily To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Peter Farrell In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980310153828.006e06e0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 334 Lines: 17 On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Simon Cooke wrote: > Um... folks... I think we scared him off. > > He's unsubbed. Good man. Why doesn't everyone else follow his example? There are at least a million better ways of commumicating with other SAM Users than through this list. Take care, Mark "When you walk, let your heart lead the way." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 09:07:19 1998 Illegal-Object: Syntax error in Message-Id: value found on sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no: Message-Id: ^-Extraneous program text From: Dan Doore Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 9:00:34 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: the plan for sam MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-Id: <19980311090120Z49601-28688+2215@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Status: RO Content-Length: 677 Lines: 24 > >I approached the Format stall at the next All Formats show in London where I > >spoke to Colin MacDonald who said Mr Brenchley was abandoning it - strange > >that I should hear it from a third party first!!. Mr Brenchley then > >confirmed, himself by phone, that he had taken over the contract and later > >that he was not bothering with the digitizer. This left the digitizer in > >limbo... > > Because the thing did not work. Are we talking the SamCo Digitiser or the MiDGET (or are they both the same?) since my disc box says that they both produced images. Dan. Work: dan@bacg.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 09:32:14 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <002565C4.0033B002.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:25:21 +0000 Subject: Suggestions? (Was: Peter Farrell) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 235 Lines: 11 > Good man. Why doesn't everyone else follow his example? There are at > least a million better ways of commumicating with other SAM Users than > through this list. Such as? (PS. Did that review ever get put into print?) Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 10:58:23 1998 Message-ID: <01ca01bd4cdb$b7445720$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.DOMAIN_ORCHID> From: David Zambonini To: sam-users Subject: **FINAL SALE PRICES** Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:51:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 656 Lines: 32 OK... unless I hear different, these are the final prices. I'll contact each of you within a day to arrange transport and to confirm that you still want the item(s). Final offers on anything else, anybody? Approx. 150 discs ** REMOVED FROM SALE - sorry! ** 1 Meg RAM 50.00 Mouse I/F (+mouse) 10.00 Comms I/F 25.00 MasterDOS 2.00 Tech manual 4.00 Prince of Persia 3.00 Batz n Balls 2.00 Pipemania 2.00 Vegetable Vacation 3.33 Five On A Treasure Island 3.33 Defenders Of The Earth 3.34 DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 12:46:47 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <002565C4.004157C9.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:57:04 +0000 Subject: 64K I/O addresses? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 219 Lines: 11 Hi. Just one small question: How on Earth do I access 64K worth of I/O port addresses with a "out (nn), a" type instruction? Or doesn't anyone really bother and just use the lower 8 bits of the address bus? Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 12:46:47 1998 From: Paul Walker Message-Id: <199803111212.MAA01385@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Anonymous Users In-Reply-To: <457ba1f2.35058b8f@aol.com> from BillRitman at "Mar 10, 98 01:50:52 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:12:37 +0000 (GMT) X-Approved: bill@whitehouse.gov X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 206 Lines: 6 > 1: Email. 2: Newsgroups. 3) Local history. 4) just about anything people use > the internet for. I very much doubt number 4, to be honest. Unless you do *everything* out there, which I *really* doubt. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 12:46:49 1998 Message-Id: <199803111217.MAA08147@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:17:30 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: 64K I/O addresses? In-reply-to: <002565C4.004157C9.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 176 Lines: 9 > Just one small question: How on Earth do I access 64K > worth of I/O port addresses with a "out (nn), a" type > instruction? LD A, data LD BC, port_address OUT (C), A dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 12:46:49 1998 Message-Id: <199803111218.MAA08380@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:18:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Floppy Disks In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19980310153542.006ddb4c@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> References: <199803101153.LAA04065@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 452 Lines: 10 > In SAMDOS, that entry is either &00 or &FF. Dunno about +G/DOS (though it's > the same source code really, so that shouldn't be a problem), or any of the > specially released +D DOS's ... errr.... well... couldn't you use the fact that this entry is either &00 or &FF and deduce that the disk is a SAMDOS format? (maybe couple this with checking for sector 10 thus ruling out a 9-sector formatted disk with coincidentally these bytes here) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 12:46:50 1998 From: Paul Walker Message-Id: <199803111222.MAA02975@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Peter Farrell In-Reply-To: from Mark Sturdy at "Mar 11, 98 01:43:15 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:22:07 +0000 (GMT) X-Approved: bill@whitehouse.gov X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 288 Lines: 8 > Good man. Why doesn't everyone else follow his example? There are at > least a million better ways of commumicating with other SAM Users than Yes... after your message the other day, I'd imagine you'd unsubbed as well. After all, would you want to be with a bunch of wankers? Paul From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 12:46:52 1998 Message-Id: <199803111225.MAA09826@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:25:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SimCoupe developement version 0.76 In-reply-to: <01bd4cc9$4039a8e0$be075cc3@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 886 Lines: 23 > >I've put up the latest developement version of SimCoupe (v0.76) on > >the snapshot webpage (DOS binary) > >Please give it a try. > >Allan problem with beeps - they're sound bad! on my pc, anyway. nothing fancy as regards the internal speaker as far as i can make out. anyway, the deal is, there appears to be a constant-pitch note overlaid on top of the sound that the emulator produces. type in BOOM and you get the boom sound but also with a constant-pitch beeeeeeeeeee on top of it. same goes for BEEP 1,0... you get nasty interference from a different pitch going beeeeee at the same time. the pitch is constant in the sense that, no matter what sounds you make, you will always have this same pitched interference. however, quit & load up again and the pitch might have changed. also, crashes (and sometimes gpfs) if you use the saa tsr (version 0.30 anyway) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 12:46:53 1998 Message-Id: <199803111222.MAA09254@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:22:13 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Books! In-reply-to: References: <60c62f72.35058b95@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 799 Lines: 41 > >Now I know this is a silly question, but why not under your own name? > > > >Just wondering, not trying to make anything of it before flames start flying. > > > >Bill. > > Then who else's name is Ian Mark Collier? > no, no, no. some misunderstanding here! i think it was Bill's attempt at a 'joke'. ian said something like 'I've also got some stuff published by Bernard Babini: Z80 Book 1 by R.A.Penfold and Z80 Book 2 by J.P.Morgan ' - which Bill took to mean ' Hi: I'm Ian and I've had some of my stuff published! Yes! Some guy published my well-written workshop books for the Z80! Look out for these titles in a store near you: z80 book 1 by R.A.Penfold and z80 book 2 by J.P.Morgan ' hence - "Now I know this is a silly question, but why not under your own name? " dave hth From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 12:46:54 1998 From: "E.P.R.P. Blink" Organization: Hanzehogeschool Groningen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:19:46 MET Subject: Re: 64K I/O addresses? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <4CD83E071CD@mail1.pl.hanze.nl> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 477 Lines: 20 > From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:57:04 +0000 > Subject: 64K I/O addresses? > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Hi. > > Just one small question: How on Earth do I access 64K > worth of I/O port addresses with a "out (nn), a" type > instruction? Just use the instruction: OUT (C),r BC=port address r = A,B,C,D,E,H,L( or F undocumented instruction) register Edwin Blink From imc Wed Mar 11 13:00:24 1998 Subject: Re: 64K I/O addresses? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:00:24 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <002565C4.004157C9.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at Mar 11, 98 11:57:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 695 Lines: 18 On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:57:04 +0000, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk said: > Just one small question: How on Earth do I access 64K > worth of I/O port addresses with a "out (nn), a" type > instruction? You don't. That instruction puts nn on the lower 8 bits and A on the upper 8 bits of the address bus. You can, as has been said, use out (c),a and send the data to port BC. > Or doesn't anyone really bother and just use the lower > 8 bits of the address bus? Much of the Spectrum and Sam hardware only uses the lower 8 bits. In fact, many items of Spectrum hardware only use one bit. You'll notice however that the CLUT uses more than 8 bits (as do the +3 paging and disk control ports). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 13:26:15 1998 Message-Id: <199803111310.NAA19373@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:10:18 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: 64K I/O addresses? In-reply-to: <199803111300.NAA16751@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> References: <002565C4.004157C9.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at Mar 11, 98 11:57:04 am X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 290 Lines: 6 > Much of the Spectrum and Sam hardware only uses the lower 8 bits. In fact, > many items of Spectrum hardware only use one bit. You'll notice however > that the CLUT uses more than 8 bits (as do the +3 paging and disk control > ports). ... and keyboard input ports... and soundchip ... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 13:36:01 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <002565C4.004906FB.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:26:03 +0000 Subject: Re: 64K I/O addresses? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 381 Lines: 14 Cheers for the info about using BC. I guess people just stick to the lower 8bits of the address bus for two reasons: (1) because it saves on the address decoding to get the chip select or whatever. (2) you sacrifice the accurate I/O map for execution speed... No wonder the Speccy kept getting incompatible peripherals if they just used one bit of the address bus... Justin. From imc Wed Mar 11 13:49:36 1998 Subject: Re: 64K I/O addresses? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:49:36 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <002565C4.004906FB.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at Mar 11, 98 01:26:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1033 Lines: 33 On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:26:03 +0000, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk said: > Cheers for the info about using BC. I guess people just > stick to the lower 8bits of the address bus for two reasons: > (1) because it saves on the address decoding to get the > chip select or whatever. Probably the most popular reason. > (2) you sacrifice the accurate I/O map for execution speed... out (n),a is I believe 11 cycles while out(c),a is 12, so not that much difference. The problem is you might want the BC register for something else. > No wonder the Speccy kept getting incompatible peripherals > if they just used one bit of the address bus... Indeed so. Bit usage that I know of: 0 keyboard/border/sound 1 all the 128K/+3 stuff (these had better address decoding though) 2 ZX printer 3 Interface 1 4 Interface 1 5 (Protek "PSGIO" sound board - uses bit 1 also) 6 7 (my Spectrum parallel printer interface) The Kempston joystick uses IN 31 which leaves bits 0-4 alone and looks at the others to see if they are all zero. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 14:15:25 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <002565C4.004CF52F.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:01:45 +0000 Subject: Re: 64K I/O addresses? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 295 Lines: 10 >> (2) you sacrifice the accurate I/O map for execution speed... > >out (n),a is I believe 11 cycles while out(c),a is 12, so not that >much difference. The problem is you might want the BC register >for something else. You also need to load BC aswell. That's a few cycles, I guess.. Justin From imc Wed Mar 11 14:19:56 1998 Subject: Re: 64K I/O addresses? To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:19:56 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <002565C4.004CF52F.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at Mar 11, 98 02:01:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 178 Lines: 6 On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:01:45 +0000, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk said: > You also need to load BC aswell. That's a few cycles, I guess.. You only need to do that once though. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 14:30:41 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002565C4.004CF52F.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:25:59 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: 64K I/O addresses? X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1299 Lines: 29 At 2:01 pm +0000 11/3/98, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk wrote: >>> (2) you sacrifice the accurate I/O map for execution speed... >> >>out (n),a is I believe 11 cycles while out(c),a is 12, so not that >>much difference. The problem is you might want the BC register >>for something else. > >You also need to load BC aswell. That's a few cycles, I guess.. True, although that becomes less important if you're doing lots of I/O at the same time. Sometimes you can still use B as a counter, eg if you're loading the CLUT from a a table in memory. In which case you'd probably use OUTD instead... Note that due to the oddities of the Sam's timings, the execution speeds of OUT (C),r and OUT (n),A are essentially the same; that is, unless you're running your program from external uncontended memory. Andrew --- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 14:53:02 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <6cefc00f.3506a386@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:45:24 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: sam tech manual Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 626 Lines: 22 In a message dated 10/03/98 12:41:28, you write: >o > >if the sam users manual wasn't so crap in the first place, perhaps we >wouldn't need much of what the tech manual has to offer. > >however, i for one would like to see it up on the net because I think >that those who were going to buy it will already have it. > >why not put it up there and only give out the address to those on teh >list, so some development can start? > >Peace, Love, Kisses... >Johnna Pig Teare Sorry, no, if anyone feels they need one and does not already have one then I'm open to requests. And that is my last word on the subject. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 14:53:02 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <2ed5cb8f.3506a38d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:45:29 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Working Together - was The Plan For SAM. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 5562 Lines: 102 I think that some people on this list have either failed to grasp the concept behind the SAMSON project, or have just chosen to ignore it. I hope that this short missive will clarify a few things. First. We must not forget that the Spectrum was(is) the biggest selling computer of all time. Its 48K version sold over 6 million just from the UK version (ignoring the Timex version and the clones). By comparison the SAM has sold in very small numbers (I believe around 16,000 world-wide). But the SAM was a success, even given its small user base, because it built on the success of the Spectrum. If it had not had the Spectrum compatibility it had, it would not have sold half the number. If it had been even more Spectrum compatible (and right up to the last few months that was the plan) I've no doubt it would have sold a lot more. Now I believe that there is still a market for a new computer that looks to SAM for its heritage, in just the same way as the SAM looked to the Spectrum. True. It would be possible to sit down and design a computer from scratch as one project and then launch it onto the world. But none of us have half a million going spare at the moment do we? So let's scratch that idea for a start. If I had half a million I would do it, but I haven't. So. Things have to be looked at in a simpler, easier to manage form. And management of this project will be one of the most difficult jobs. If we can't build the computer in one go, then let's build it in stages. As each stage produces something it can be released to existing SAM users. This gives us a viable field test, some income to reinvest in the next stage, and some users who can get a head start on software and other things before SAMSON even gets to the first prototype stage. True, a lot of things can be done on the PC with SimCoupe. But the majority of SAM owners do not have a PC - their SAM is their computer. And remember that it will be much more impressive to have people /see/ the developing stages of the prototype rather than see an 'emulation' on a PC. I can well remember peoples reaction to the first demonstrations of the prototype SAM - do you think they would have been half as impressed is Bruce has said "Oh yes, we think it will work, just look at the simulation we have written". We cannot ignore the existing user. We cannot ignore the Spectrum user (there machines are becoming hard to repair these days). And we must not look upon ourselves as 'typical' SAM users - because we are not. Remember that I speak to SAM users EVERY DAY, unlike most of the people on this list I actually know what a typical SAM user wants - because I've asked them. Now. When I first raised the idea of SAMSON, I said that the first thing we needed to prove was that we could work together in a reasonably business-like way. I did hope that we could have broken the project down into segments, found a project leader for each segment, had people commit to doing certain things for one or more segments - and keep to those commitments. First target was to get the hard drive disc operating system working so that it would facilitate software development. This REQUIRES that some changes are made to MasterDOS, which in turn REQUIRES that some changes are made to the ROM. If someone would like to prove Nev and myself wrong on that subject they are welcome to try and I hope the succeed (but I'm not holding my breath). Well some people certainly showed they were incapable of working with others. Some people have shown that they have zero business sense, not a problem in itself provided that they recognise that they have no business sense and leave the business side to those that have. The situation regarding rights has been explained before but I will explain it again. West Coast Computers own the rights to SAM (except the ASIC which is owned now by VLSI). I have a pledge (one that I accept) that the rights will be returned to me to allow outside backing to be sought, or to allow for the rights to be sold on to another company if that is what is required to get the eventual SAMSON into production. By the time we get to SAMSON the ASIC will be of little uses so we can ignore VLSI. The proposal I made to some people (I'm not sure if it was made on this list or not) is that if something they design is used on the eventual machine then they would get a share or royalty commensurate to the importance of that part of the machine. I suggested that it would not be too difficult to find a mutually agreeable third part to help work out any split. Now, the project brief does need to be worked out in more detail. But I'm not prepared to waste my time dealing with people who only want to argue the same old arguments again and again. What I need now is at least token commitment to stage one. Without the foundations we cannot build anything, and stage one gives us that foundation and a chance to start working together in co- operation rather than arguing. It is now up to the people on this list to make their first step. Bob. (c) Copyright 1997/98 Format Publications. Released 11/03/1998. No part of this information may be distributed in any form or by any media without this copyright message being appended. Not for publication in paper or disc based magazines without the express permission in writing of Format Publications. The copyright owner releases this document for discussion purposes only to the Sam Users Mailing List and to Comp.sys.sinclair. Provided that all discussions take place under the original thread title. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 15:16:22 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Anonymous Users References: <3.0.1.32.19980310140606.006d7158@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 11 Mar 1998 15:07:35 +0000 In-Reply-To: Simon Cooke's message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:06:06 -0500" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 618 Lines: 21 Simon Cooke writes: > At 01:50 PM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: > >> Bill, what do you use the Internet for? > >> > >1: Email. 2: Newsgroups. 3) Local history. 4) just about anything people use > >the internet for. > > To quote Withnail & I; Are you a sponge or a stone? > > Or rather, do you post on Newsgroups, or do you just read what's there? One would presume a stone since Dejanews has never heard of him at least not under his present name ;) Lee. PS. Doh! scary, I just started a sentence with 'one' maybe I'm metamorphosing into royalty or something. Eek! -- Yawn And Walk North From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 16:06:54 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311094831.006cf378@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:48:31 -0500 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: 64K I/O addresses? In-Reply-To: References: <002565C4.004CF52F.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 737 Lines: 23 Not sure if anyone's mentioned this but: If you do an IN A,(xx) or OUT (xx),A , the contents of the A register are put onto the upper 8 bits of the address register. Which is why a lot of keyboard routines will use: LD A,&7F IN A,(&FE) RRA RRA RET NC ; return if the symbol key has been pressed. Or something similar. BTW: OUT (C),F actually doesn't do that; it puts 0 on the data bus for NMOS chips, &FF on the data bus for CMOS chips. Simon +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "You know... you can tell someone's vain when they quote themselves | | in their own .sig file..." -- Simon Cooke | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 16:06:56 1998 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:17:51 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Graham Goring Subject: Re: Bye... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a <8OHKkEUpoELRXgFKFsA4hwDBr8> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1112 Lines: 26 In message , Tim Paveley writes >Okay, I've only been lurking for the last few months, mainly poor to due >net access, but since all I've been doing wheenver I log on is delete 95% >of emails from this list without looking at them, may as well give up as >well. > >Anyone want to chat, you're more than welcome to send me an email, but I >warn you in advance I'm crap at getting around to replying :) > >Chill out, the whirlpools cometh. Yoinks! I have to say that I'm in a similar situation and will be unsubbing soon. It's taking 10 mins to get all my mail and news crap these days. Graham -- /====================================================\ +--------------+ | My proverb for this week: | |This Space For| | "The less bits, the less can go wrong... | | Hire - Ideal | | Unless you wobble something important at the back" | |For Weddings &| \==Graham Goring - graham@duketastrophy.demon.co.uk==/ | Bahmitzvas | My Website, coming to a server near you - SOON +--------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 16:33:01 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <3bafd133.3506b85e@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:14:19 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 6268 Lines: 164 In a message dated 10/03/98 18:45:59, you write: >o > >At 08:00 AM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: >>>But let's be honest here Bob -- it's true, isn't it? I'm sure we've gone >>>over on the list, for example, lots of reasons why having a *second* >>>processor design instead of a replacement processor one is a bad idea. But >>>you keep pushing it. >> >>I keep pushing it because it is the ONLY way forward that keeps EXISTING >users >>involved. I will not abandon SAM users, I want to carry them forward. They >>don't want a new machine, they want upgrades. > >Duh! > >Let me repeat what has been said a number of times before: > >The Z380 design in the accelerator would work as a replacement processor >that would run all existing software, except that which relied on the >refresh register for calculations. > >It would run Lemmings in 1 frame. We even managed to get this running with >an 11MHz clocked Z80B at the Gloucester show. But at what a cost? And could it be commercial produced? It may have worked in demo form, but that is a long way from commercial product. And who wants to run SAM software that fast? Very little would really benifit from extra speed because it was written for SAM. Yes, versions could be written to exploit the processor, I know that, but that is further down the road. > >We also worked out a way to get new disk controllers to *emulate* the >existing 1772 controller through software and hardware on the new design. Oh good, any details? > >It was a good upgrade path. Now there's no point. Carry on with your plans, >Mr. Canute. > >>>Same with the SAMRAM or whatever it is. I mean, for >>>God's sake, Martin & myself designed the MultiROM years ago -- did anyone >>>bother contacting us for the design? No. Same with plenty of other stuff >>>we've worked on. >> >>One reason for not looking at the MultiROM was that it was not offered. >>Another reason, if it had been offered, has to be the past performance on >>Martin on hardware projects. > >IIRC, we did offer the design as a possibility. Someone would have to check >the archives though. > >>>It's like that pathetic excuse about the postal system that you use with >>>alarming frequency. I'd have thought that if the post was so bad in >>>Gloucester, you'd have started sending things registered mail. >> >>What are you talking about? > >Every time someone doesn't receive something that they've ordered, you put >it down to the postal service. So you think the post office deliver everything right. Most weeks we get at least 2 or 3 items delivered here that should have gone elsewhere, but then we gat more post than most people - and send more out. But the same happens (pro- rata) to just about every business I know who deals through the post. If we have certificates of posting then the stuff must have gone out - or do you think we print those ourselves? > >>>The SAM is on its last legs. It's dying. We need more programmers. To >>>facilitate that, I ask you if you'd mind if I scanned the tech manual in >>>and put it on the web. You say you would mind. That in itself is the most >>>stupid attitude I can imagine. >> >>Ah, so it is stupid to give away free something (one of the few things in >>fact) that still brings in money. You seem to know a lot about business >Simon. > >Bob, if you were in it for the money, you wouldn't be supporting the SAM. >End of story. If I could not make money out of it I would not be able to spend the time I do on it. > >Putting the tech manual on the web would get the emulator programmers and >spectrum programmers in on the game, via SIM Coupe. They might even buy >more SAMs. More software. I was asked some time ago if the SAM manual could be put up, I said I had no objections to that provided there was clear reference to Format Publications to point people to us. But the tech manual, no. > > >>>Now, what would you lose by putting >>>it up on the web? And what would the whole SAM community that you're so >>>fond of defending gain? >> >>Nothing, how would the SAM community gain? By us not getting money? Please >>Simon, engage brain. > >Sorry, I was under the common misconception that the SAM Community is not >*you*. I said that the SAM community would gain nothing. And that I would not get money on the sales of the tech manual. How did you read it? > >>>Bob -- if they were being nice, no-one would care. Once they start getting >>>abusive, hiding behind an anonymous name is not only cowardice, but it >>>shows that they're scared of dirtying their own name. So they snipe from >>>behind cover. It's PATHETIC. >> >>They are entitled to their opinions just as much as you are. > >At least I put my name to it. So do they, the name they have in the case of Bill, and the name he uses in the case of Samsboss. > >Let's put my cards on the table: > >You are Bill Ritman. No. > >Samsboss is possibly you as well. No. > >The thing is, I'm beginning to see no point in you carrying on pretending >that you're not Bill or Samsboss, because frankly, you're doing all the >sniping under your own name these days. Only when people need to be snipped at. > >>>Because you continued to claim that I had some part in the downfall of >>>SAMCo, even after I proved with *publication dates* (that I could get >>>38,000 people at least to agree with if I could track them all down), that >>>I had nothing to do with it. >> >>It is a claim that I hold to, because it is true. Remember I was involved, >far >>more than any other person on this list. I mean, did you carry out a full >days >>work in Gloucester, then take an evening train to Swansea, spend most of the >>night working on the rescue plans, then get back to Gloucester for another >>days work. No? Well I did, time and time again, working with Alan Miles >trying >>to stop it going completely down the pan. >> >>And I can still remember the temper he was in when he phone me with the >first >>news of the daft article you were responsible for. It was the final nail in >>the Arab bid if nothing else. > >Bob, unless you have a time machine, you're talking shit. I just know what happened. > >And frankly, I don't believe that even you, defender of the antiquated >computer, self-crowned king of the realm, have a Type-40 time capsule. > >Simon -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 16:33:01 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <1b63439.3506b865@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:14:27 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 808 Lines: 20 > >Is it just a coincidence that I receive a bunch of mail from bob, then a >few from other people, then a bunch from bill, a few from other people, a >bunch from bob etc. etc. etc. Have you considered that this is how people like us, who have jobs to do, and who have to pay for out internet access, do things. I go online in the morning if I can, if not around 3pm. I then work through what has come done, reply to what I feel needs a reply, then if I have time I go online and post the replies back. I have noticed however, that AOL seems to hold on to some email, either that or nvg does, because the number of times I read a reply from someone before the original is high enough to annoy me. You know, this is how conspiracy theories get started. And no, I was not on the grassy knoll. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 16:33:04 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <481f26b8.3506b856@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:14:12 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fighting Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 594 Lines: 25 In a message dated 10/03/98 18:45:45, you write: >o > >> Hi I'm new here > >Hi Peter. Welcome. > > >> Is it always as busy as this? My mailbox is getting really full >I apologise on behalf of the list. It's just a few emotions getting >out of hand. > > >> Does anybody know of any new games coming out soon? > >Buy Stratosphere! :) (From my unbiased review!) >Justin. Unbiased view (in other words I don't make money out of it - he doesn't even advertise with me). But Stratosphere, then save your pennies and get the Quazar Suround Sound system (see Colin, I got its name right). -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 16:33:04 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:14:23 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Plan for SAM. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 452 Lines: 15 In a message dated 10/03/98 18:46:15, you write: >> >Do these experts regularly write operating systems for SAM Coupes? >> No, but they do have operating system writing experiance. > >On what machines? And when? > > As far as I know, Jon was responsible as team manager for a large part of the operating system used by Eagle Star Direct Insurance, a mix of mini and micro computers I think, with a feed through to the companies mainframe. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 16:33:05 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <152bf838.3506b864@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:14:26 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Anonymous Users Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 263 Lines: 18 In a message dated 10/03/98 22:52:47, you write: > >> It was a good upgrade path. Now there's no point. Carry on with your >plans, >> Mr. Canute. > > >WHAT?!?! Bob's my Departmental manager aswell???? > >Justin. > > Yes, now get on with your work :) -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 11 16:33:08 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:14:21 EST To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: the plan for sam Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 767 Lines: 25 In a message dated 10/03/98 18:46:05, you write: >o > >At 08:00 AM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: >>>I approached the Format stall at the next All Formats show in London where >I >>>spoke to Colin MacDonald who said Mr Brenchley was abandoning it - strange >>>that I should hear it from a third party first!!. Mr Brenchley then >>>confirmed, himself by phone, that he had taken over the contract and later >>>that he was not bothering with the digitizer. This left the digitizer in >>>limbo... >> >>Because the thing did not work. > >Peculiar that. Seeing as there were pictures from it on the SAMCo Newsdisk >and all. IIRC very heavely doctored pics, which were no better than the Maplin digitiser for the Spectrum. Part of the reason for demanding changes. -- Bob.