From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 11:26:19 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:20:52 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805221006.KAA06358@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> References: <28ffe1dc.35653e70@aol.com> from "BrenchleyR" at May 22, 98 04:59:27 am X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <259B58C5CDB@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 497 Lines: 12 > > That information is, of course, confidental. > Why "of course"? What is confidential about it? (Or is it that you only > sell half a dozen per year and don't want to destroy your argument against > putting it on the web?) > It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the > information. All it is is just a few technical specs. And as you say Bob, there are so many SAM users that don't have access to the internet and couldn't read it if it were put up anyway. MJC. From imc Fri May 22 11:34:02 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:34:02 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199805221020.LAA02134@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at May 22, 98 11:20:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 656 Lines: 19 On Fri, 22 May 1998 11:20:38 +0000, Dave Hooper said: [I wrote] > > It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the > > information. > presumably (and fair enough) bob is trying to get 'any money he can' > from interested sam users. it's his right. To clarify: the "information" mentioned above is the information about how many are sold, rather than the information contained in the technical manual. > are software / hardware *SPECIFICATIONS* actually copyrightable? I daresay the names of the system variables and ROM routines are, but I don't think you can copyright the fact that port 250 controls the lower RAM paging. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 12:03:50 1998 Message-ID: <006901bd856d$72da98e0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:35:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 103 Lines: 6 Can I ask a question here? Who does the copyright actually belong to (eg person / company) ? DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 12:03:50 1998 Message-Id: <199805221035.MAA19131@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:37:46 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 805 Lines: 23 > Van: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: INDUG and the Internet. > Datum: Friday, May 22, 1998 1:20 > > > It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the > > information. > > ah! but the best way to milk the dwindling sam market for all it is > worth is to advertise a product, not let on to anyone how many you > are selling / have sold, and also not release it into the public > domain. And killing the Sam in the proces :( off course this is my opinion. > presumably (and fair enough) bob is trying to get 'any money he can' > from interested sam users. it's his right. See the above -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 12:03:56 1998 Message-Id: <199805221044.LAA07417@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:44:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805221034.KAA06419@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> References: <199805221020.LAA02134@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at May 22, 98 11:20:38 am X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1388 Lines: 37 > From: Ian Collier > Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:34:02 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > On Fri, 22 May 1998 11:20:38 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > [I wrote] > > > It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the > > > information. > > To clarify: the "information" mentioned above is the information about > how many are sold, rather than the information contained in the technical > manual. yeh, i know. i was simply saying that, by not disclosing this information to the public, he is in a better position to milk the ever-dwindling sam user base. > > are software / hardware *SPECIFICATIONS* actually copyrightable? > > I daresay the names of the system variables and ROM routines are, but > I don't think you can copyright the fact that port 250 controls the > lower RAM paging. is there any sam technical information that has been released into the public domain (eg, by Bruce Gordon, Andy Wright, etc) - maybe the ROM source code. If the source code is pd, then (presumably) the labels used in it (for entry points and system variables) also enter the public domain. otherwise, we could just use the numerical equivalent - eg, call the routine at #00f7 to do this .... dpoke into #5ac0 to do that ... dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 12:03:57 1998 Message-Id: <199805221046.LAA07705@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:45:40 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805221035.MAA19131@mailserv.caiw.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 300 Lines: 7 > > presumably (and fair enough) bob is trying to get 'any money he can' > > from interested sam users. it's his right. > > And killing the Sam in the proces :( off course this is my opinion. don't get me wrong. i agree totally. it's the worst possible thing. but, nonetheless, it is bob's right. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 12:03:58 1998 Message-Id: <199805221047.LAA07973@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:46:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <006901bd856d$72da98e0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 158 Lines: 4 > Who does the copyright actually belong to (eg person / company) ? presumably MGT, and hence SAMCO, and hence WCC (as far as hardware specs are concerned) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 12:10:53 1998 Message-ID: <007401bd8571$6dfdf340$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:04:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 290 Lines: 11 > presumably MGT, and hence SAMCO, and hence WCC (as far as hardware > specs are concerned) Interesting. I'd go ahead and duplicate the manual anyway, in that case. If WCC are meant to have the copyright, then there will be no lawsuit whatsoever. Can be no lawsuit whatsoever. DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 12:10:53 1998 Message-Id: <199805221109.MAA12911@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:09:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <007401bd8571$6dfdf340$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 126 Lines: 6 > If WCC are meant to have the copyright, then there will be no lawsuit > whatsoever. Can be no lawsuit whatsoever. ?? dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 12:22:59 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199805221047.LAA07973@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <006901bd856d$72da98e0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:15:55 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 826 Lines: 21 At 12:46 pm +0100 22/5/98, Dave Hooper wrote: >> Who does the copyright actually belong to (eg person / company) ? > >presumably MGT, and hence SAMCO, and hence WCC (as far as hardware >specs are concerned) But it's not actually that simple, is it? IIRC, SamCo couldn't afford the rights to certain things at the time... Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 12:28:46 1998 Message-Id: <199805221125.MAA15766@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:25:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: References: <199805221047.LAA07973@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 132 Lines: 4 > IIRC, SamCo couldn't afford the rights to certain things at the time... oh? ok. so who owns stuff then? anyone fancy owning up? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 12:39:16 1998 Message-ID: <008301bd8575$3428d140$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:31:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 309 Lines: 15 > If WCC are meant to have the copyright, then there will be no lawsuit > whatsoever. Can be no lawsuit whatsoever. ?? This is the information that _is_ publicly available:- West Coast Computers Limited was officially dissolved in 1994. Anyone now trading under its name is doing so illegally. DMZ --- From imc Fri May 22 13:11:30 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:11:30 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199805221044.LAA07417@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at May 22, 98 11:44:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 690 Lines: 17 On Fri, 22 May 1998 11:44:36 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > is there any sam technical information that has been released into > the public domain As far as I know, "technical information" in general is always in the public domain. Particular works containing the information can be copyright, and technical devices themselves can be patented (but the information is still in the public domain - it is the manufacture of the device which the patent protects). > If the source code is pd, As far as I know, it is not. But an interesting question would be who owns the copyright and would they be willing to release the routine names and system variable names into the public domain. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 13:48:14 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: User Groups? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:38:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd857e$7d114820$842eaccf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 184 Lines: 8 Just out of interest... ... what makes Format/INDUG a user group, rather than just a magazine? I've been wondering about this for quite a while, but I've never worked it out. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 14:08:25 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:54:04 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bd8580$b378fa00$842eaccf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199805221034.KAA06419@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1440 Lines: 33 > I daresay the names of the system variables and ROM routines are, but > I don't think you can copyright the fact that port 250 controls the > lower RAM paging. Nor can you copyright the terms LMPR, HMPR, VMPR either... To be honest, I don't see why we're bothering with the debate anyway. I can't see anyone carrying on doing SAM stuff any more, technical manual or not -- though there are people still interested in the details. Having said that, I was interested in the details of the Elan Enterprise (which seems to have had a display system very similar in concept and execution to the MiDGET!) -- not that I'd actually get hold of one and do any programming on it. Face it. SAM's dead. The only reason we're on here is because we like to hang out with one another. Why do you think people spend more time in the pub at Gloucester shows these days than in the actual hall? There's nothing wrong with this. Though I'd like to start looking at things realistically. I spend a fair amount of time every day wading through messages on this list. The only reason I've not unsubscribed is because this is one of the better ways I can keep in touch with my friends, and besides we have fun debates on here from time to time. When I move to Microsoft, I may have to completely disconnect, because this is a major time-suck. Either that or keep all the posts for weekends and get a computer at home to do it. *sighs* Never mind. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 14:08:25 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:58:35 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bd8581$54b40040$842eaccf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <006901bd856d$72da98e0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 402 Lines: 16 > Can I ask a question here? > > Who does the copyright actually belong to (eg person / company) ? > > DMZ > --- Well... according to the receivers... But that would be telling. Simon ps. Copyright is a dirty word in the SAM world. Unless, of course, you're claiming victories in the FORMAT news pages for the wonders of FAST against schoolyard piracy. Which I still think is fucking out of order. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 14:18:28 1998 Message-Id: <356579E3.C2C40E99@cableol.co.uk> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:13:07 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: User Groups? References: <000101bd857e$7d114820$842eaccf@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 917 Lines: 23 Simon Cooke wrote: > > Just out of interest... > > ... what makes Format/INDUG a user group, rather than just a magazine? > > I've been wondering about this for quite a while, but I've never worked it > out. > > Simon I also notice on the back page of the April issue of Format (which arrived this morning), there is an advert for Indug (getting a tad desperate to fill space there I think Bob...an advert for Indug, inside an Indug mag...). At the bottom of the advert, it says "The Independent User Group". Independent from what? We all know you aren't independent from WCC/Revelation, and you've admitted as much yourself lately, so what exactly are you indepenent from? -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@cableol.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * * Waiting on a refund for years for a SAM_Clock * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 14:19:41 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:58:37 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bd8581$55c08e40$842eaccf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199805221044.LAA07417@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 671 Lines: 18 > > > are software / hardware *SPECIFICATIONS* actually copyrightable? > > > > I daresay the names of the system variables and ROM routines are, but > > I don't think you can copyright the fact that port 250 controls the > > lower RAM paging. > > is there any sam technical information that has been released into > the public domain (eg, by Bruce Gordon, Andy Wright, etc) - maybe the > ROM source code. > > If the source code is pd, then (presumably) the labels used in it > (for entry points and system variables) also enter the public > domain. Well, while it's not PD, Bob let me release the source code to MasterDOS and the SAM ROM -- which are now on NVG. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 14:22:46 1998 Message-ID: <009e01bd8583$b3a6b960$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: User Groups? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:15:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 596 Lines: 26 >Just out of interest... > >... what makes Format/INDUG a user group, rather than just a magazine? > >I've been wondering about this for quite a while, but I've never worked it >out. I have absolutely no idea. Format Publishing has been out of business for just as long as WCC. If any of these facts are disputed, then what are the company numbers? If my search criteria didn't show up WCC or Format, then fair enough, I apologise. However, there's absolutely no reason to withold a company number. In fact, it should really be quoted with all trade carried out by the company. DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 18:32:22 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:20:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <000301bd8580$b378fa00$842eaccf@default> References: <199805221034.KAA06419@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: <19980522172402Z49174-12139+409@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2649 Lines: 71 > From: "Simon Cooke" > To: > Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:54:04 -0400 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Fri, 22 May 98 18:07:16 BST > > I daresay the names of the system variables and ROM routines are, but > > I don't think you can copyright the fact that port 250 controls the > > lower RAM paging. > > Nor can you copyright the terms LMPR, HMPR, VMPR either... Of course not. The copyright to the ROM still belongs to Dr Andy Wright, correct? BTW Does anyone other than Andy have authority to allow it to be released on NVG? Has anyone actually checked this? > To be honest, I don't see why we're bothering with the debate anyway. I > can't see anyone carrying on doing SAM stuff any more, technical manual or > not -- though there are people still interested in the details. Having said > that, I was interested in the details of the Elan Enterprise (which seems to > have had a display system very similar in concept and execution to the > MiDGET!) -- not that I'd actually get hold of one and do any programming on > it. The enterprise was shit. It was no-way near as good as SAM. It's colour was almost as bad as the kaliedescope... > Face it. SAM's dead. The only reason we're on here is because we like to > hang out with one another. Why do you think people spend more time in the > pub at Gloucester shows these days than in the actual hall? Well.. I'm glad that not all people don't think like you. And if no-one's interested in doing SAM Stuff... what about the programmers that Malcolm's got working on things at the moment? There's several good ones being work on at the mo that I know of... Just because some people round here are too keen on playing with "virtual SAMs" instead of real ones... doesn't mean to say all of us are like that. > There's nothing wrong with this. Though I'd like to start looking at things > realistically. If we where realistic, we'd all have got rid of the computer after MGT died on it's feet. > I spend a fair amount of time every day wading through messages on this > list. The only reason I've not unsubscribed is because this is one of the > better ways I can keep in touch with my friends, and besides we have fun > debates on here from time to time. When I move to Microsoft, I may have to > completely disconnect, because this is a major time-suck. Either that or > keep all the posts for weekends and get a computer at home to do it. That's up to you. > *sighs* > > Never mind. > > Simon > > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 18:32:23 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:20:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <008301bd8575$3428d140$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> Message-Id: <19980522172402Z49201-12139+410@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 702 Lines: 22 > From: "Dave" > To: > Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:31:16 +0100 > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Fri, 22 May 98 18:07:12 BST > > If WCC are meant to have the copyright, then there will be no lawsuit > > whatsoever. Can be no lawsuit whatsoever. > > ?? > > > This is the information that _is_ publicly available:- > > > West Coast Computers Limited was officially dissolved in 1994. > Anyone now trading under its name is doing so illegally. Have u noticed that West Coast - where it has been mentioned - has not been called West Coast Ltd for some time? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 18:32:24 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:20:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805221211.MAA06611@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> References: <199805221044.LAA07417@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at May 22, 98 11:44:36 am Message-Id: <19980522172403Z49216-12139+411@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1023 Lines: 26 > From: Ian Collier > Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:11:30 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Fri, 22 May 98 18:07:14 BST > On Fri, 22 May 1998 11:44:36 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > > is there any sam technical information that has been released into > > the public domain > > As far as I know, "technical information" in general is always in the public > domain. Particular works containing the information can be copyright, and > technical devices themselves can be patented (but the information is still > in the public domain - it is the manufacture of the device which the patent > protects). > > > If the source code is pd, > > As far as I know, it is not. But an interesting question would be who owns > the copyright and would they be willing to release the routine names and > system variable names into the public domain. > > imc Dr Andy Wright surely? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 18:32:25 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:20:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <000501bd8581$55c08e40$842eaccf@default> References: <199805221044.LAA07417@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Message-Id: <19980522172404Z49220-12139+412@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 331 Lines: 11 > > If the source code is pd, then (presumably) the labels used in it > > (for entry points and system variables) also enter the public > > domain. > > Well, while it's not PD, Bob let me release the source code to MasterDOS and > the SAM ROM -- which are now on NVG. > > Simon I take it this was with the authors permission? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 19:08:56 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:01:28 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd85ab$a4f89be0$3492accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <19980522172402Z49174-12139+409@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2966 Lines: 78 > The copyright to the ROM still belongs to Dr Andy Wright, correct? > > BTW Does anyone other than Andy have authority to allow it to be > released on NVG? > > Has anyone actually checked this? I'm uncertain; AFAIK, Bob arranged with Andy for him to be the sole source of the ROM and MasterDOS -- apart from Martin, of course, who has the rights to do HominRoms. > > To be honest, I don't see why we're bothering with the debate anyway. I > > can't see anyone carrying on doing SAM stuff any more, > technical manual or > > not -- though there are people still interested in the details. > Having said > > that, I was interested in the details of the Elan Enterprise > (which seems to > > have had a display system very similar in concept and execution to the > > MiDGET!) -- not that I'd actually get hold of one and do any > programming on > > it. > > The enterprise was shit. It was no-way near as good as SAM. It's > colour was almost as bad as the kaliedescope... It may well have been, but a lot of the concepts were very similar to the SAM, and the video design was *really* neat. If the SAM had been designed around a similar principle, it would have been better. Easier to write games at the very least, and demo coders would have had a field day. > > Face it. SAM's dead. The only reason we're on here is because we like to > > hang out with one another. Why do you think people spend more > time in the > > pub at Gloucester shows these days than in the actual hall? > > Well.. I'm glad that not all people don't think like you. > And if no-one's interested in doing SAM Stuff... what about the > programmers that Malcolm's got working on things at the moment? > There's several good ones being work on at the mo that I know of... > > Just because some people round here are too keen on playing with > "virtual SAMs" instead of real ones... doesn't mean to say all of us > are like that. At the moment, I don't have a choice in the matter -- it's virtual SAM or nothing. And while I said that the SAM was dead, I didn't say that it didn't still have support. But the user base is dwindling. > > There's nothing wrong with this. Though I'd like to start > looking at things > > realistically. > > If we where realistic, we'd all have got rid of the computer after > MGT died on it's feet. Nah. It's a fun machine; that doesn't mean that I'm going to expect to ever see a proper windowing system on it. Or a real C compiler. Or Statues of Ice :) > > I spend a fair amount of time every day wading through messages on this > > list. The only reason I've not unsubscribed is because this is > one of the > > better ways I can keep in touch with my friends, and besides we have fun > > debates on here from time to time. When I move to Microsoft, I > may have to > > completely disconnect, because this is a major time-suck. Either that or > > keep all the posts for weekends and get a computer at home to do it. > > That's up to you. Yep. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 19:29:25 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:19:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <000101bd85ab$a4f89be0$3492accf@default> References: <19980522172402Z49174-12139+409@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Message-Id: <19980522182304Z49171-12139+427@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2657 Lines: 70 > > The copyright to the ROM still belongs to Dr Andy Wright, correct? > > > > BTW Does anyone other than Andy have authority to allow it to be > > released on NVG? > > > > Has anyone actually checked this? > > I'm uncertain; AFAIK, Bob arranged with Andy for him to be the sole source > of the ROM and MasterDOS -- apart from Martin, of course, who has the rights > to do HominRoms. For which he pays a royalty. And if the format publisher has actually "arranged" permission, then he should obviously have written permission for this I take it? > > > To be honest, I don't see why we're bothering with the debate anyway. I > > > can't see anyone carrying on doing SAM stuff any more, > > technical manual or > > > not -- though there are people still interested in the details. > > Having said > > > that, I was interested in the details of the Elan Enterprise > > (which seems to > > > have had a display system very similar in concept and execution to the > > > MiDGET!) -- not that I'd actually get hold of one and do any > > programming on > > > it. > > > > The enterprise was shit. It was no-way near as good as SAM. It's > > colour was almost as bad as the kaliedescope... > > It may well have been, but a lot of the concepts were very similar to the > SAM, and the video design was *really* neat. If the SAM had been designed > around a similar principle, it would have been better. Easier to write games > at the very least, and demo coders would have had a field day. Not that easy really from all accounts. Mind you - the mess the company made was rather SAM-like... > > Just because some people round here are too keen on playing with > > "virtual SAMs" instead of real ones... doesn't mean to say all of us > > are like that. > > At the moment, I don't have a choice in the matter -- it's virtual SAM or > nothing. Fair enough. After all there isn't a US model. Hmmm.... I wonder how tricky that would be :) > And while I said that the SAM was dead, I didn't say that it didn't still > have support. But the user base is dwindling. I can really imagine that this sort of lark is helping too... > > If we where realistic, we'd all have got rid of the computer after > > MGT died on it's feet. > > Nah. It's a fun machine; that doesn't mean that I'm going to expect to ever > see a proper windowing system on it. Or a real C compiler. Or Statues of Ice Whatever happened to Driver 2? C - well the programmer did a fair version of Small C. Now has anyone asked him if he's taken it further? SOI. Hmmmm.... I'm more likely to have written my first arcade game before that happens. This is much more likely to appear :) > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 19:29:26 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:21:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: #sam-users? Message-Id: <19980522182459Z49198-12139+428@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 105 Lines: 4 Anyone ever interested in popping to the above dalnet channel anymore? Or at least see u on #thelocal? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 19:54:26 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:31:40 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) #sam-users? Message-Id: <19980522183528Z49254-12139+430@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 363 Lines: 13 Bugger me! I meant undernet :( ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Self To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: #sam-users? Reply-to: david@persona.clara.net Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:21:23 Anyone ever interested in popping to the above dalnet channel anymore? Or at least see u on #thelocal? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 19:54:27 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: #sam-users? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:32:38 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bd85af$ff8acf20$3492accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <19980522182459Z49198-12139+428@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 72 Lines: 3 I do, now and then, but nobody was ever around when I logged on. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 19:54:27 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:33:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000601bd85b0$27729180$3492accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <19980522182304Z49171-12139+427@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2004 Lines: 58 > > I'm uncertain; AFAIK, Bob arranged with Andy for him to be the > sole source > > of the ROM and MasterDOS -- apart from Martin, of course, who > has the rights > > to do HominRoms. > > For which he pays a royalty. And if the format publisher has actually > "arranged" permission, then he should obviously have written > permission for this I take it? Presumably. Depends on what the agreement between Bob and Andy Wright is. > > And while I said that the SAM was dead, I didn't say that it > didn't still > > have support. But the user base is dwindling. > > I can really imagine that this sort of lark is helping too... I don't think it's hurting; the arguments on the list do more to hurt the user base than me saying something that everyone's known for a long time. After all, has anyone unsubbed because of it? > > > If we where realistic, we'd all have got rid of the computer after > > > MGT died on it's feet. > > > > Nah. It's a fun machine; that doesn't mean that I'm going to > expect to ever > > see a proper windowing system on it. Or a real C compiler. Or > Statues of Ice > > Whatever happened to Driver 2? I think that Steve went on to Other Things. > C - well the programmer did a fair version of Small C. Now has anyone > asked him if he's taken it further? Nope. If he has, it'd be nice to know though. Mind you, I have no idea how to get in touch with him. > SOI. Hmmmm.... I'm more likely to have written my first arcade game > before that happens. This is much more likely to appear :) *grins* very true. Mind you, some parts that were planned for SOI may appear in Andrew Collier's next masterpiece... if I can get a development kit together for SIMCoupe. All my disks are at home - which includes utilities for converting BMP's to SAM, source for compression, music playback, etc etc etc. And COMET. And Flash :( Maybe I'll try and finish TERMITE as well. I offered a ton of source code to people on this list to play with... and nothing happened. Ah well. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 21:25:50 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:14:21 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <000101bd85ab$a4f89be0$3492accf@default> References: <19980522172402Z49174-12139+409@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <2639A1B7A92@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 232 Lines: 8 > see a proper windowing system on it. Or a real C compiler. > Or Statues of Ice :) Yes- whatever happened to Statues of Ice? I got one of the parts of the demo from Stefan, but never heard anymore about it. What happened? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 21:26:02 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:16:57 -0400 Message-ID: <001901bd85be$91f3db00$3492accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <2639A1B7A92@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 398 Lines: 13 > > see a proper windowing system on it. Or a real C compiler. > > Or Statues of Ice :) > > Yes- whatever happened to Statues of Ice? I got one of the parts of > the demo from Stefan, but never heard anymore about it. What > happened? I'll take the 5th please, Bob. Oh, and a "P" while you're at it. Disk errors, pillars of flame, rain of frog. Oh and lack of time to put it all together. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 22 21:50:52 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:43:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <001901bd85be$91f3db00$3492accf@default> References: <2639A1B7A92@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Message-Id: <19980522204650Z49225-12139+446@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 630 Lines: 19 > > > see a proper windowing system on it. Or a real C compiler. > > > Or Statues of Ice :) > > > > Yes- whatever happened to Statues of Ice? I got one of the parts of > > the demo from Stefan, but never heard anymore about it. What > > happened? > > I'll take the 5th please, Bob. Oh, and a "P" while you're at it. > > Disk errors, pillars of flame, rain of frog. Oh and lack of time to put it > all together. > > Simon The problems with being one of SAM's best programmers... and being half of the team who have created more hardware than almost anyone appart from Bruce Gordon! (Although Edwin's probably caught up :) From imc Sat May 23 00:12:45 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <19980522204650Z49225-12139+446@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> from David Ledbury at at "May 20, 98 08:43:15 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:12:45 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 214 Lines: 7 On Wed, 20 May 1998 20:43:15 +0000, David Ledbury at said: [something] Dave, could you get the date fixed on your computer please? I have to scroll up two or three pages to see your messages at the moment. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 00:27:14 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:19:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805222312.AAA02752@ruby.comlab> References: <19980522204650Z49225-12139+446@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> from David Ledbury at at "May 20, 98 08:43:15 pm" Message-Id: <19980522232240Z49274-12139+459@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 270 Lines: 11 > On Wed, 20 May 1998 20:43:15 +0000, David Ledbury at said: > [something] > > Dave, could you get the date fixed on your computer please? I have > to scroll up two or three pages to see your messages at the moment. > > imc How do u sort it out on Pegasus Mail? From imc Sat May 23 00:43:19 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <19980522232240Z49274-12139+459@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> from David Ledbury at at "May 20, 98 11:19:07 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:43:19 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 250 Lines: 8 On Wed, 20 May 1998 23:19:07 +0000, David Ledbury at said: > How do u sort it out on Pegasus Mail? No idea. Couldn't you do it in the operating system, like typing "date" if it's DOS or Win31? Also set TZ=GMT0BST to get the timezone right. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 01:04:14 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:49:26 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805222343.AAA02957@ruby.comlab> References: <19980522232240Z49274-12139+459@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> from David Ledbury at at "May 20, 98 11:19:07 pm" Message-Id: <19980522235307Z49307-12139+461@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 283 Lines: 11 > On Wed, 20 May 1998 23:19:07 +0000, David Ledbury at said: > > > How do u sort it out on Pegasus Mail? > > No idea. Couldn't you do it in the operating system, like typing "date" > if it's DOS or Win31? Also set TZ=GMT0BST to get the timezone right. > > imc > Any better? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 01:37:41 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:10:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <001901bd85be$91f3db00$3492accf@default> References: <2639A1B7A92@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Message-ID: <895883091.1021965.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 234 Lines: 12 > > I'll take the 5th please, Bob. Oh, and a "P" while you're at it. > > Disk errors, pillars of flame, rain of frog. Oh and lack of time to put it > all together. Don't you want to take /the/ "P" instead :-) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 01:37:41 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:24:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <199805222312.AAA02752@ruby.comlab> In-reply-to: <19980522232240Z49274-12139+459@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Message-ID: <895883091.1021964.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 518 Lines: 21 > > > > Dave, could you get the date fixed on your computer please? I have > > to scroll up two or three pages to see your messages at the moment. > > > > imc > > How do u sort it out on Pegasus Mail? Option 1: Click Help, search: Time Zones, read. Option 2: Ask someone else, get reply of: Click File > Network Configuration > Advanced Settings, change SMTP time zone to +0100 since that what Daylight Saving/British Summer Time is. Job done, and we can then read in sync, haleluya :-) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 01:37:42 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:10:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Real SAM help required !!! for a change. References: <000101bd85ab$a4f89be0$3492accf@default> In-reply-to: <2639A1B7A92@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Message-ID: <895883090.1021963.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 786 Lines: 22 Ok, to but into this current argument on the list, I'm after a bit of help from you all. I think Simon would be the best source, but you dont have you software collection with you. I want to finish of a utility i did years ago and put on a PD disk. It's only a disk utility, full directory informataion, bad sector scan, directory and program recovery from reading the data tracks on the disk and working out what the files are hence the following: What i need is updated information of the current file types and data specification for them eg BASIC File type 19 starb bytes, length bytes etc. I've got all the ones from the tech manual, just the newer ones i need. Well, i hope some one can help with any more info.It'll make a change from fighting. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 01:37:43 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:27:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <199805222343.AAA02957@ruby.comlab> In-reply-to: <19980522235307Z49307-12139+461@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Message-ID: <895883220.1022113.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 605 Lines: 22 > From: "David Ledbury at" > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:49:26 +0000 > Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > > On Wed, 20 May 1998 23:19:07 +0000, David Ledbury at said: > > > > > How do u sort it out on Pegasus Mail? > > > > No idea. Couldn't you do it in the operating system, like typing "date" > > if it's DOS or Win31? Also set TZ=GMT0BST to get the timezone right. > > > > imc > > > > Any better? Not if you wrote this at 23:49 summer time. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 01:55:22 1998 Message-Id: <199805230049.BAA18647@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:48:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <199805222343.AAA02957@ruby.comlab> In-reply-to: <19980522235307Z49307-12139+461@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 128 Lines: 7 > Any better? try tools/options/advanced settings/SMTP time zone. (bet this has already been mentioned by now, though) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 02:02:38 1998 Message-Id: <199805230054.BAA18921@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:54:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805230049.BAA18647@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <19980522235307Z49307-12139+461@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 530 Lines: 16 > try tools/options/advanced settings/SMTP time zone. > > (bet this has already been mentioned by now, though) > actually, my SMTP time zone box is left blank; the email header says + 0000 hours, but it seems to be telling the correct time. i guess because the system clock automatically adjusts for BST, i don't need to adjust the time zone box to +0100; i can just leave it blank. is this right? seems a bit weird. (unless leaving the box blank means something different to entering +0000 into the time zone box) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 02:06:09 1998 Message-Id: <199805230102.CAA19263@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 02:01:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805230054.BAA18921@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <199805230049.BAA18647@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 280 Lines: 9 > actually, my SMTP time zone box is left blank; the email header says > + 0000 hours, but it seems to be telling the correct time. er, no. no, forget that. i'll change my time zone immediately! question: is it possible to get peg mail to automatically adjust for bst ? dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 02:15:45 1998 Message-Id: <199805230108.CAA19627@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 02:08:14 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805230102.CAA19263@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <199805230054.BAA18921@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 338 Lines: 8 > er, no. no, forget that. i'll change my time zone immediately! now i'm confused, since the time zone is now set for +0100 but nothing has changed... and this is just a public-computer-labs kind of computer so there's nothing else to change. everyone, for the rest of the summer, please bear with my emails coming in out of order. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 02:23:50 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 01:13:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805230108.CAA19627@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <199805230102.CAA19263@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Message-Id: <19980523011709Z49254-12139+470@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 438 Lines: 12 > Date: Sat, 23 May 98 02:15:56 BST > > er, no. no, forget that. i'll change my time zone immediately! > > now i'm confused, since the time zone is now set for +0100 but > nothing has changed... and this is just a public-computer-labs kind > of computer so there's nothing else to change. > > everyone, for the rest of the summer, please bear with my emails > coming in out of order. F**k knows what my time is like now! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 13:02:07 1998 Message-Id: <199805231156.MAA12102@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:56:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: #sam-users? In-reply-to: <000401bd85af$ff8acf20$3492accf@default> References: <19980522182459Z49198-12139+428@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 297 Lines: 10 > I do, now and then, but nobody was ever around when I logged on. There is a slight time-diff to consider. :) Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/60.11 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 13:07:52 1998 Message-ID: <35672A5D.4A9630E5@lhutz.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:58:24 -0700 From: James R Curry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: #sam-users? References: <000401bd85af$ff8acf20$3492accf@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 155 Lines: 9 Simon Cooke wrote: > I do, now and then, but nobody was ever around when I logged on. > > Simon Serves you right for moving to a stupid timezone. ;) From imc Sat May 23 14:47:56 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <199805230108.CAA19627@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from Dave Hooper at "May 23, 98 02:08:14 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:47:56 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 316 Lines: 8 On Sat, 23 May 1998 02:08:14 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > now i'm confused, since the time zone is now set for +0100 but > nothing has changed... and this is just a public-computer-labs kind > of computer so there's nothing else to change. Depends whether you can get to the clock thing on the control panel. imc From imc Sat May 23 14:49:10 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <19980522235307Z49307-12139+461@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> from David Ledbury at at "May 20, 98 11:49:26 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:49:10 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 121 Lines: 6 On Wed, 20 May 1998 23:49:26 +0000, David Ledbury at said: > Any better? No you are still several *days* behind. imc From imc Sat May 23 14:51:10 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <000401bd8581$54b40040$842eaccf@default> from Simon Cooke at "May 22, 98 08:58:35 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:51:10 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 292 Lines: 8 On Fri, 22 May 1998 08:58:35 -0400, Simon Cooke said: > ps. Copyright is a dirty word in the SAM world. Unless, of course, you're > claiming victories in the FORMAT news pages for the wonders of FAST against > schoolyard piracy. Which I still think is fucking out of order. Er, what?! imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 20:29:00 1998 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 23:40:30 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Ian Dalziel Subject: Re: A Solution In-Reply-To: <008101bd8304$7b903c80$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 234 Lines: 10 In article <008101bd8304$7b903c80$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal>, Dave writes > >Perhaps we can have a sam-users-not-bob@nvg.unit.no? > Is there a Turing test to distinguish Bob from Not-bob? -- Ian Dalziel From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 22:23:05 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:09:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd868f$15b264e0$4624accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199805231351.OAA06064@ruby.comlab> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 636 Lines: 18 > On Fri, 22 May 1998 08:58:35 -0400, Simon Cooke said: > > ps. Copyright is a dirty word in the SAM world. Unless, of > course, you're > > claiming victories in the FORMAT news pages for the wonders of > FAST against > > schoolyard piracy. Which I still think is fucking out of order. > > Er, what?! One issue of Format proudly claimed how pirated SAM software at one school in the South East had been stopped by FAST. Sure, it's not right, but we're not talking a distribution racket, or people paying people for CD's full of the stuff. From what I saw in the article, it was a kid copying stuff for his friends at school. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 22:23:05 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: #sam-users? Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:09:35 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd868f$16c81aa0$4624accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <35672A5D.4A9630E5@lhutz.demon.co.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 263 Lines: 16 > Simon Cooke wrote: > > > I do, now and then, but nobody was ever around when I logged on. > > > > Simon > > Serves you right for moving to a stupid timezone. ;) *grins* Well... I did log on when people would be awake and using the net in the UK :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 23 23:30:07 1998 Message-Id: <199805232225.AAA07580@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 00:28:17 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1104 Lines: 36 ---------- > Van: Simon Cooke > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: RE: INDUG and the Internet. > Datum: Saturday, May 23, 1998 11:09 > > > > On Fri, 22 May 1998 08:58:35 -0400, Simon Cooke said: > > > ps. Copyright is a dirty word in the SAM world. Unless, of > > course, you're > > > claiming victories in the FORMAT news pages for the wonders of > > FAST against > > > schoolyard piracy. Which I still think is fucking out of order. > > > > Er, what?! > > One issue of Format proudly claimed how pirated SAM software at one school > in the South East had been stopped by FAST. It is fine to know that I am not a serious Format reading Sam-user :). > Sure, it's not right, but we're not talking a distribution racket, or people > paying people for CD's full of the stuff. From what I saw in the article, it > was a kid copying stuff for his friends at school. It is still piracy, but it is nothing to be proud off in this case. -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 00:16:29 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Real SAM help required !!! for a change. Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:08:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd869f$ba0bcee0$6d70accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <895883090.1021963.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 954 Lines: 23 > Ok, to but into this current argument on the list, I'm after a bit of > help from you all. I think Simon would be the best source, but you > dont have you software collection with you. Ahh.... BUT! I do have the MasterDOS source code to hand... > I want to finish of a utility i did years ago and put on a PD disk. > It's only a disk utility, full directory informataion, bad sector > scan, directory and program recovery from reading the data tracks on > the disk and working out what the files are hence the following: > > What i need is updated information of the current file types and data > specification for them > eg BASIC File type 19 starb bytes, length bytes etc. > > I've got all the ones from the tech manual, just the newer ones i > need. Well, I can't help with the MasterBASIC compressed file stuff (does anyone know exactly what form of compression is used?), but I'll see what I can find out from the source code for you... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 00:26:59 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: DOS File Info Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:19:37 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd86a1$4108e300$6d70accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 357 Lines: 20 Here's the basic info, Dean -- from file E1.Z80 ZX Spectrum Basic - 1 ZX D Array - 2 ZX $ Array - 3 ZX Code ? - 4 ZX 48k Snapshot - 5 MD. File - 6 ZX Screen$ - 7 SPECIAL - 8 ZX 128k Snapshot - 9 Opentype - 10 N/A Execute - 11 Not allocated --> 12-15 SAM Basic - 16 SAM D Array - 17 SAM $ Array - 18 SAM Code - 19 Screen$ - 20 Folder definition marker - 21 From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 00:41:13 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 00:37:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <000001bd868f$15b264e0$4624accf@default> References: <199805231351.OAA06064@ruby.comlab> Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 508 Lines: 14 > One issue of Format proudly claimed how pirated SAM software at one school > in the South East had been stopped by FAST. > > Sure, it's not right, but we're not talking a distribution racket, or people > paying people for CD's full of the stuff. From what I saw in the article, it > was a kid copying stuff for his friends at school. Yeah, thats not really on is it, almost everybody copies stuff for freinds. It's the big time money makers that need stopping, not playgrounders. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 01:11:48 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 01:08:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805230108.CAA19627@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <199805230102.CAA19263@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2078 Lines: 45 > er, no. no, forget that. i'll change my time zone immediately! now i'm confused, since the time zone is now set for +0100 but nothing has changed... and this is just a public-computer-labs kind of computer so there's nothing else to change. everyone, for the rest of the summer, please bear with my emails coming in out of order. Looking at the Received headers (CTRL+H) the time zones arn't stamped correctly by the mail gateway (mercury), which as far as i know means that the mail server at Uni isnt capable of changing for GMT / BST or set to change. But i've not used mercury gateway yet, so can't be sure. Also i would have thought that p-mail actually stamped the 'Date' line which should change with the 'Time Zone' setting... i'm getting confused ! [headers] Received: by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no id <49330-12139>; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:08:51 +0200 Received: from renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk ([129.215.13.3] EHLO renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 997]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no with ESMTP id <49337-12139>; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:08:36 +0200 Received: from eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk (eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk [129.215.13.1]) by renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA19627 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 02:08:31 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199805230108.CAA19627@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Received: from SMS-EIGG/SpoolDir by eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk (Mercury 1.31); 23 May 98 02:08:31 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by SMS-EIGG (Mercury 1.31); 23 May 98 02:08:24 +0000 From: "Dave Hooper" <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 02:08:14 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805230102.CAA19263@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <199805230054.BAA18921@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Sender: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 01:37:12 1998 Message-Id: <199805240032.BAA06479@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 01:31:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805231347.OAA06012@ruby.comlab> References: <199805230108.CAA19627@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from Dave Hooper at "May 23, 98 02:08:14 am" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 405 Lines: 10 > Depends whether you can get to the clock thing on the control panel. the computer's telling the right time, it's just the email software isn't adjusting for BST correctly (the clock, however, does adjust for bst automatically). anyway, the problem seems to be the mail servers at my university so i guess there's nothing more i can do about it (except maybe point the problem out to them...) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 02:17:54 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: Final version of "dat tune" Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:10:57 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd86b0$ce8487c0$fe28accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 159 Lines: 9 I've nearly finished that tune I was writing... Final version will be up on: http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc/darkmatter.zip It's in XM format btw... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 02:28:11 1998 Message-Id: <199805240125.CAA08910@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:25:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Final version of "dat tune" In-reply-to: <000001bd86b0$ce8487c0$fe28accf@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 96 Lines: 5 > Final version will be up on: > http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc/darkmatter.zip ... when ...? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 02:40:05 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: Uploading now... Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:30:48 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd86b3$94c5c960$fe28accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 89 Lines: 5 It's 1.4Mb long, so be warned. It'll finish uploading in about 10 minutes or so. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 02:48:54 1998 Message-Id: <199805240143.CAA09585@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:43:28 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Uploading now... In-reply-to: <000101bd86b3$94c5c960$fe28accf@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 439 Lines: 14 > It's 1.4Mb long, so be warned. It'll finish uploading in about 10 minutes or > so. maybe consider using impulse tracker. recently the guy writing it added built-in compression on mods (i guess it compressed the sample data, but not the pattern data. still cuts the size down significantly) and it can import .xms (although i don't know how successfully) and supports a whole load of fun stuff. whhhellll... i use it anyways. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 02:57:32 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Uploading now... Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:48:32 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd86b6$0ef132e0$fe28accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <199805240143.CAA09585@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 555 Lines: 20 > maybe consider using impulse tracker. > recently the guy writing it added built-in compression on mods (i > guess it compressed the sample data, but not the pattern data. still > cuts the size down significantly) > and it can import .xms (although i don't know how successfully) and > supports a whole load of fun stuff. > > whhhellll... i use it anyways. Hmmm.... The thing is, I don't want to lose quality on the samples -- but I'll consider it in future :) (Also, I played with I.T., but hated the interface -- the FT2 one is much nicer) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 02:57:32 1998 Message-Id: <199805240152.CAA09902@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:51:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Uploading now... In-reply-to: <199805240143.CAA09585@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <000101bd86b3$94c5c960$fe28accf@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 93 Lines: 3 > > It's 1.4Mb long, so be warned. arghh! about 22 bytes too big to fit on a single floppy! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 03:03:25 1998 Message-Id: <199805240157.CAA10134@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:56:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Uploading now... In-reply-to: <000001bd86b6$0ef132e0$fe28accf@default> References: <199805240143.CAA09585@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 395 Lines: 11 > The thing is, I don't want to lose quality on the samples -- but I'll > consider it in future :) lossless. > (Also, I played with I.T., but hated the interface -- the FT2 one is much > nicer) fair point. but i was brought up on screamtracker (on pcs, at least). i was always a bit of a med fan, but the only pc software available to me was screamtracker, whose ui IT blatantly rips off. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 12:56:28 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: sskardon@argonet.co.uk (Stewart Skardon) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sun, 24 May 98 12:45:51 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: I'm back Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1171 Lines: 42 Hello folks, After a long spell of silence, I am back and I am glad to see that everyone else is still here. Since I last spoke to you all, I have produced my last issue of Crashed, and Mark has now taken over the production side of things. Which reminds me, has anyone received issue 21 of Crashed yet? I will still be hosting the Crashed Web site and Email, bit I will now be able to concentrate on other things, such as my own SAM Pages, which I hope to update soon. So, has the Atom been released yet? Has anyone released any new software, and tell me, how did the last Gloucester show go? Right, I'll go and crawl back under my rock for a while. All the best, Stewart. P.S Must get back on #sam-users again soon. -- _ (_'tewart email : sskardon@argonet.co.uk ,_)kardon http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/stewart/ * * * NEW - Stewart's SAM Information Pages. * * * http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/sampages/ Crashed Magazine - The SAM Coupe and ZX Spectrum Magazine. Crashed WWW Site http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon Crashed Email - crashed@argonet.co.uk From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 13:08:16 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:03:15 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 273 Lines: 13 In a message dated 18/05/98 18:17:35, you write: > > What is the Atom? > > The Oric Atom was an 8-bit micro from around 1981. It was black and > grey, and looked /great/ > > It was the Oric Atmos, the Atom was the precursor od the BBC B from Acorn. HTH. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 13:11:41 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <73d7a481.35680dec@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:09:15 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Any progress? Good Question:) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 824 Lines: 26 In a message dated 19/05/98 00:09:50, you write: > > > > Let's just stick with what we've got! > > > > A good idea, there is still a lot that can be done with the original > machine, hard disk would make it quicker to work on though! I don't agree with sticking with what we have, if we had taken that attitude in the past we would still be with Spectrums. As for the HD, they do make things a lot better. > > people are wanting to upgrade the machine to something it should have > been in the first place, like it's been said before, too little too > late. No doubt if Mr Gordon was designing Sam today then the HD would be part of the standard. We have to remember that when Sam first saw the light of day the majority of PCs didn't have hard drives as standard. > > -- > Dean Liversidge Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 13:17:46 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:11:34 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: I'd tried not to get involved in this one, but... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 707 Lines: 21 In a message dated 19/05/98 00:09:52, you write: > > Demon amongst many others give you a node name and allow you > unlimited usernames before the @ and also allow you to use any TCP/IP > / Socket compatable mail software to allow you to use those accounts > to their fullest. > > Unlike AOL that restrict the creative minds of their users, but then > again *some* of their users are so ignorant to the abilty and use > of the internet and it's software that they wouldnt know what to do > with it anyway. I do not see how being forced to use AOL's email software can restrict creative minds. In fact I would say the effect would be the reverse. > > -- > Dean Liversidge > Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 13:17:46 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <1fec5902.35680ec2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:12:49 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 287 Lines: 17 In a message dated 19/05/98 10:34:52, you write: > >I've seen Bob accused of pretending to be a couple of people - surely > >God IS someone different, though? > > > >-- > >Ian Dalziel > > LET THERE BE LIGHT! > > -- > Bob Does that mean I've got to get up? :) Bill. > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 16:00:53 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I'd tried not to get involved in this one, but... References: X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 24 May 1998 15:57:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: BillRitman's message of "Sun, 24 May 1998 08:11:34 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 538 Lines: 17 BillRitman writes: > In a message dated 19/05/98 00:09:52, you write: > > I do not see how being forced to use AOL's email software can restrict > creative minds. In fact I would say the effect would be the reverse. For examples of how it can be restricting see my previous post about this or look at your first quoted line and see how unhelpful it is in telling me who you quoted it from ... But please do tell me how AOL's software aids creative minds ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 23:47:52 1998 Message-Id: <199805242244.XAA18384@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 23:43:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: The SAM In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 168 Lines: 7 > It was the Oric Atmos, the Atom was the precursor od the BBC B from Acorn. sssh! it was a failed attempt at humour! anyway, wasn't the precusor the Electron? dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 24 23:59:53 1998 Message-Id: <3568A44D.20DF1297@cableol.co.uk> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 23:50:53 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: The SAM References: <199805242244.XAA18384@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 640 Lines: 19 Dave Hooper wrote: > > > It was the Oric Atmos, the Atom was the precursor od the BBC B from Acorn. > > sssh! it was a failed attempt at humour! > > anyway, wasn't the precusor the Electron? > > dave One of my favourite machines of all time :))) Aww the memories (I was an Electron bod before I became a Speccy bod). Wish I hadn't sold my little baby - I cried when I did (look, I was only 12) -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@cableol.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * * Apple Mac, SAM Coupe, Spectrum supporter * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 00:50:15 1998 Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:56:11 -0400 From: Gordon Wallis <101762.2062@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: A Solution To: "INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no" Message-ID: <199805251556_MC2-3E16-DC14@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 400 Lines: 15 Message text written by INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no >>Perhaps we can have a sam-users-not-bob@nvg.unit.no? > Is there a Turing test to distinguish Bob from Not-bob? -- Ian Dalziel < My suggestion: Simply ask all AOL users on the list to rate AOL on a scale of 'Total Shite' to 'Adequate'. Anyone rating it higher than 'adequate' is Bob. Though we'd need a larger set of questions to be sure. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 00:53:58 1998 Message-Id: <199805252331.AAA15215@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:31:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: A Solution In-reply-to: <199805251556_MC2-3E16-DC14@compuserve.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 261 Lines: 7 > Simply ask all AOL users on the list to rate AOL on a scale of 'Total > Shite' to 'Adequate'. Anyone rating it higher than 'adequate' is Bob. if this scale is from 'total shite' to 'adequate' then anyone rating it HIGHER than adequate is cheating! :) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 06:22:35 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:56:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Cooo! Message-Id: <19980526043237Z49217-30736+185@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 188 Lines: 10 Isn't it busy?!! BTW Thanks to all who forward stuff for me for the SAM Supplement... If there's anything else anyone would like to donate ... just mail me! (Lee? Dan? Anyone?) David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 09:00:33 1998 Message-ID: <00de01bd8878$3d36da60$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:30:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 463 Lines: 13 > Have u noticed that West Coast - where it has been mentioned - has > not been called West Coast Ltd for some time? Errr... no. Does this mean its being run as a personal liability, then? While this could explain things more than adequately, it sounds a really stupid thing to do - the individual is liable for _all_ debts incurred since they haven't got the option of dissolving the company. Would somebody like to bring me up to date on this? :) DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 11:34:59 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <665b198e.356a997f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:29:17 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1351 Lines: 34 In a message dated 21/05/98 10:44:41, you write: >BrenchleyR writes: > >> In a message dated 19/05/98 16:16:12, you write: >> >> Unsupportive with some justification Lee. As I've said in the past, we >never >> gave publicity to disc based mags until they became 'established' because >of >> the very poor servival record. > >I wasn't talking about publicity issues more the way you attempted to >dissuade a member of the list from starting his own mag suggesting (In >rather offensive terms if I remember ...) that he'd be better off >writing it for Format despite the persons insistance that he wanted to >do something new and different ... > >Lee. I will deal with fair competition anyday. But in this case it was going to be very unfair competition as he said from the start that he was going to get his printing done 'almost' for free. But what I got angry about at the time was not that he intended to compete in an unfair manner, but that he was so arrogant that he could not see how damaging to the SAM world his attempts were going to be. There was then, and is now, only room for a very small number of mags/disczines. We were then, and are now, still overpopulated with mags/disczines. Anotherone may well have spelt the death of at least FORMAT and possibly others - but he was just to thick to see it. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 11:34:59 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <1fefe78e.356a9980@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:29:19 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: I'd tried not to get involved in this one, but... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1787 Lines: 51 In a message dated 21/05/98 10:51:24, you write: >BrenchleyR writes: > >> In a message dated 19/05/98 16:16:14, you write: >> >> A good point, and one which I hope AOL will address in the next version. >> However, you must admit that mailing lists for such a small proportion of >> emails in the world at large that it is a small oversight. > >Yes, but not for me personally, this mornings mail count read as follows >... >You've got new mail from ... >[snipped] > 1, personal messages. >[snipped] > 39, mailing-list messages. > >and I know a lot of people who have similar ratios. My point being that >my mail/news software lets me do things the way _I_ want, not the way >that the author thought most people would want it done ... I doubt that one in one hundred would have a ratio like that, and you are lucky that you have found news/mail software that works exacly as you want - I think the truth is that you have learn to use your software in one of the ways its authors intended. AOL may be a bit behind the times in demanding that we use their software, just two years ago it would have been the norm for a lot of ISPs. But when you have a user-base the size of AOL things do sometimes move a little slower on the software side. > >> >> easy access from almost anywhere in the world. How can that be >restrictive? >> > >> >See above >> >> Sorry Lee, but I don't see what you mean. > >The software is restrictive because it forces you to work in a certain >way. AH! So AOL restrict users because their email software and newsgroup software is no quite what you would like it to be? Fine. It isn't for you. But stop being stupid by knocking AOL just because one very small aspect of their service doesn't meet your requirements. > >Lee. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 12:02:33 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <665b198e.356a997f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:50:17 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: The SAM X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1724 Lines: 38 At 11:29 am +0100 26/5/98, BrenchleyR wrote: >I will deal with fair competition anyday. But in this case it was going to be >very unfair competition as he said from the start that he was going to get his >printing done 'almost' for free. > >But what I got angry about at the time was not that he intended to compete in >an unfair manner, but that he was so arrogant that he could not see how >damaging to the SAM world his attempts were going to be. There was then, and And what everybody else got angry about at the time was your assertion that damaging Format was identical to damaging the Sam World. >is now, only room for a very small number of mags/disczines. We were then, and >are now, still overpopulated with mags/disczines. Anotherone may well have >spelt the death of at least FORMAT and possibly others - but he was just to >thick to see it. Bob, you're doing it again - STOP CALLING PEOPLE NAMES! That's what I'm getting angry about, right now. You'll notice, if you look back, that I don't usually make personal insults. I may often call your ideas stupid, but I've very rarely called you stupid. It would be nice if, just once in a while, you showed the same common courtesy to the rest of the list. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From imc Tue May 26 12:15:10 1998 Subject: Re: I'd tried not to get involved in this one, but... To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:15:10 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <1fefe78e.356a9980@aol.com> from "BrenchleyR" at May 26, 98 06:29:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 774 Lines: 16 On Tue, 26 May 1998 06:29:19 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > AOL may be a bit behind the times in demanding that we use their software, > just two years ago it would have been the norm for a lot of ISPs. This sounds rather unlikely. AOL is chiefly an online service provider, not an Internet service provider. Compuserve is another of these (and possibly CIX as well - I admit I don't know anything about them). However, if you use a proper ISP then as soon as you have connected your computer _is_ part of the Internet and you can use whatever Internet software you darn well like. As far as I know this has always been true of Demon and Pipex (including the BBCNC when that was still around - more than two years ago). [Does anyone know how long PPP has existed for?] imc From imc Tue May 26 12:22:09 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:22:09 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <665b198e.356a997f@aol.com> from "BrenchleyR" at May 26, 98 06:29:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 711 Lines: 19 On Tue, 26 May 1998 06:29:17 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > But what I got angry about at the time was not that he intended to compete in > an unfair manner, but that he was so arrogant that he could not see how > damaging to the SAM world his attempts were going to be. [yadda yadda yadda] We know all this. It's been hashed to death before. Water under the bridge. You seem to have missed Lee's point, which was centred around the following quotation. "I'm always please to help new writers get started." -- Bob Brenchley, 17 May 1998. It has been amply demonstrated that what you actually meant to say was "I'm always pleased to help new writers get started, as long as they are writing for FORMAT." imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 12:25:09 1998 Message-Id: <356AA3D3.8BA1EA35@cableol.co.uk> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:13:23 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM References: <665b198e.356a997f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2378 Lines: 42 BrenchleyR wrote: > I will deal with fair competition anyday. But in this case it was going to be > very unfair competition as he said from the start that he was going to get his > printing done 'almost' for free. It was not going to be "almost" free - you came off with that shit at the show, you made up some lies that it was going to be funded by my university or some bollocks, which you must have just made up off the top of your head. And even if it had have been free printing, WTF did you want me to do? Demand they accept my money anyway?! > But what I got angry about at the time was not that he intended to compete in > an unfair manner, but that he was so arrogant that he could not see how > damaging to the SAM world his attempts were going to be. There was then, and > is now, only room for a very small number of mags/disczines. We were then, and > are now, still overpopulated with mags/disczines. Anotherone may well have > spelt the death of at least FORMAT and possibly others - but he was just to > thick to see it. Well that just sums you up doesn't Bob, ignore everyone else and what they think. I don't remember a SINGLE other person claiming that my mag would have killed the SAM - one or two were unsure whether it would sell many or not, and that's fair enough. You really are the most egotistical, back stabbing, lying, arrogant twat I have ever had the misfortune to come across (there you go Andrew, I'll join in his name-calling game). You bring shame on the SAM world, you seem to enjoy causing fights for the sake of it, you seem to enjoy dragging up stuff from the past over and over again. And quite frankly, I couldn't give a shit if Format died now - the whole idea of my SAM World mag was to support ALL companies and ALL mags (including yours), but I no longer care what happens to your mag. I only care about the SAM, and YOU and your mag are doing more damage than anyone. AND YOU STILL OWE ME 25 QUID FROM SAM_CLOCK FROM YEARS AGO. When I mailed you over and over again and asked what was happening with it, you didn't even have the common courtesy to reply and say "bit delayed" - you just ignored me, and I've had enough, I want the money back. -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@cableol.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 12:58:47 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:52:08 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: I'd tried not to get involved in thi MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 609 Lines: 21 > As far as I know this has always been true of Demon and > Pipex (including the BBCNC when that was still around - > more than two years ago). True of both - and both offer a user-friendly front end as well as having the flexibility to be changed if your needs require it. Compuserve *will* act as a proper ISP with little modification (a change to using standard Winsock/Dialer on 95/NT instead of theirs) and I have people using it successfully with third-party web browsers & news readers. Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 15:08:29 1998 Message-ID: <009d01bd88af$1bc82dc0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: User Groups? Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:03:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 851 Lines: 26 >> Format Publishing has been out of business for just as long as WCC. > Pardon??? Companies with the names "West Coast Computers Limited" and "Format Publications Limited" are registered as having been dissolved several years ago, that's all. I'm not implying that these are the SAM related companies, nor did I intend to. Without the company number, I cannot say for certain since the companies in question were dissolved over 2 years ago and so their details were archived. Unfortunately, the mainframe's a bit screwy at the moment, so I can't look into it in depth. > I've advised local solicitors on company law in the past. All further and prior messages from me should be read with the appropriate enclosing tags. I have no idea of company law at all, and have to rely on what I'm told by others. DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 15:35:33 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <64593b2e.356ac23b@aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 26 May 1998 15:10:16 +0100 In-Reply-To: BrenchleyR's message of "Tue, 26 May 1998 09:23:06 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 394 Lines: 18 BrenchleyR writes: > In a message dated 26/05/98 07:38:34, you write: > > >Would somebody like to bring me up to date on this? :) > > > >DMZ > > Why? It's in the interest of SAM owners to be kept up to date with the development of the company that is in charge of it, that is if it _is_ still a proper company ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 15:35:33 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <5a463d2e.356ac22e@aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 26 May 1998 15:11:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: BrenchleyR's message of "Tue, 26 May 1998 09:22:53 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 466 Lines: 16 BrenchleyR writes: > In a message dated 22/05/98 10:15:24, you write: > > >Why "of course"? What is confidential about it? (Or is it that you only > >sell half a dozen per year and don't want to destroy your argument against > >putting it on the web?) > > Let us put it this way, would you go showing your pay-slip to anyone who asks? It's not your pay-slip it's FORMAT's income .... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 15:58:05 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM References: <665b198e.356a997f@aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 26 May 1998 15:45:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: BrenchleyR's message of "Tue, 26 May 1998 06:29:17 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 359 Lines: 12 BrenchleyR writes: > I will deal with fair competition anyday. But in this case it was going to be > very unfair competition as he said from the start that he was going to get his > printing done 'almost' for free. Life is unfair. The above paragraph is just plain childish Bob ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 18:34:26 1998 From: The Mad Goose Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:47:15 GMT+0 Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <808DAA6F00@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1358 Lines: 38 > > Can I ask a question here? > > > > Who does the copyright actually belong to (eg person / company) ? > > > > DMZ > > --- > > Well... according to the receivers... > > But that would be telling. I was under the impression that the receivers from MGT still owned half of everthing that was SAM, and that SAMCo never actually had the right to develop anything more with the SAM Coupe name, just the rightsd to build the SAM out of the parts that were already produced. I imagine that if they couldn't afford the rights to the computer that was the basis of their company, then the tech manul etc would be pretty down the peckingo rder for buying up. So ifd you want to know where the rights like, look no further than the original receivers. Of course, i could be wrong. Why nopt live on the wild side, publish and be damned. I doubt that there would be enough mopney in the SAM world to launch a law sduit against somebody who published on the internet. v costly methinks. > > Simon > > ps. Copyright is a dirty word in the SAM world. Unless, of course, > you're claiming victories in the FORMAT news pages for the wonders > of FAST against schoolyard piracy. Which I still think is fucking > out of order. > Peace, Love, Kisses... JohnnaPig Teare JPOL: http://www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna "Living in a new world, thinking in the past..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 18:34:27 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:53:10 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <356AA3D3.8BA1EA35@cableol.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <2C03FAA6A65@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 756 Lines: 18 > > damaging to the SAM world his attempts were going to be. There was then, and > > is now, only room for a very small number of mags/disczines. We were then, and > > are now, still overpopulated with mags/disczines. Anotherone may well have > > spelt the death of at least FORMAT and possibly others - but he was just to > > thick to see it. Bob, How can another magazine released for the SAM possibly damage the SAM?!? As they say, private enterprise is a good thing and competition will only make people put more into the SAM as they strive to make the magazines better and better. What prey tell is your philosophy that there is only room for a limited amount of mags and disczines? And what is the value of this limited number exactly? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 18:34:28 1998 From: The Mad Goose Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:59:11 GMT+0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <80B7ED2602@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 781 Lines: 22 {snip abotu west coast} > > Would somebody like to bring me up to date on this? :) > There's a file kicking around the SAM world which explains the truth behind all the various companies such as WCC and Revelation, and who was involved with them and what there involvement was. It's quite interesting reading, and certainly scuppers lots of the arguing that went on last year when we were wondering who the owners of WCC were. I'm sure someone will send it to you (and if you are one of the people who has a copy, can you please forward it to me because my mailbox has trashed (again!) and I've lost it once more...thanks...) > DMZ > --- > Peace, Love, Kisses... JohnnaPig Teare JPOL: http://www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna "Living in a new world, thinking in the past..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 18:34:42 1998 From: The Mad Goose Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:01:45 GMT+0 Subject: Re: User Groups? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <80CDDB656E@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 681 Lines: 28 > In a message dated 22/05/98 12:43:59, you write: > > >Just out of interest... > > > >... what makes Format/INDUG a user group, rather than just a > >magazine? > > INDUG was formed as a user group. Format was originally the > newsletter of the user group but grew up and called itself a > magazine. You still have to be a member to obtain the magazine > (except when buying at shows). which means that you don't, then. > >I've been wondering about this for > quite a while, but I've never worked it >out. > >Simon > > HTH. > > -- > Bob. > Peace, Love, Kisses... JohnnaPig Teare JPOL: http://www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna "Living in a new world, thinking in the past..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 18:34:43 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:13:20 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: User Groups? In-reply-to: <80CDDB656E@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <2C095F0084D@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 310 Lines: 10 > > INDUG was formed as a user group. Format was originally the > > newsletter of the user group but grew up and called itself a > > magazine. You still have to be a member to obtain the magazine > > (except when buying at shows). > > which means that you don't, then. Exactly, that's the whole point. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 18:34:44 1998 From: The Mad Goose Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:16:40 GMT+0 Subject: New Project - Writers wanted... X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <810EB335EA@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1216 Lines: 33 I'm currently considering a new project for the SAM World, which will be called, with Gav's permission, SAM World. And it's going to take this Format... It'll be an A4 four page information leaflet that will be a forum for news, reviews and bits and Bobs like that, it will be completely free to anyone who sends an SAE, and 50p a month to those who don't. and it will cover every SAM Company in teh known world. Everyone is invited to write for it, or at least submit me some news (via my postal address please...) and you can plug your products as much as you like. Naturally, reviews and all that milarkey will have to be independent. Okay, so it's only in consideration at the moment, but if I get enough positive feedback from people I expect to have the first issue out in time for the end of June. And it won't be treading on anybodies toes because it's not aimed at any 'serious' SAM users, only people who are interested in the machine. Mail me and let me know waht you all think, but please, if you're going to insult me, save it for somebody who cares. Peace, Love, Kisses... JohnnaPig Teare JPOL: http://www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna "Living in a new world, thinking in the past..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 18:48:26 1998 Message-Id: <199805261743.SAA12977@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:43:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 409 Lines: 11 > it. You only release stuff into the public domain when it no longer has a > commercial market or when it is not a good enough product to warrant > commercial marketing. Tell me, are you familiar with the Linux phenomenon? Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/60.11 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 18:56:27 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:45:30 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd88ce$132e8be0$d371accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <80B7ED2602@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 616 Lines: 14 > There's a file kicking around the SAM world which explains the truth > behind all the various companies such as WCC and Revelation, and who > was involved with them and what there involvement was. It's quite > interesting reading, and certainly scuppers lots of the arguing that > went on last year when we were wondering who the owners of WCC were. > > I'm sure someone will send it to you (and if you are one of the > people who has a copy, can you please forward it to me because my > mailbox has trashed (again!) and I've lost it once more...thanks...) I wouldn't mind seeing a copy of that... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 19:05:40 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <000001bd88ce$132e8be0$d371accf@default> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 26 May 1998 18:57:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Simon Cooke"'s message of "Tue, 26 May 1998 13:45:30 -0400" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 867 Lines: 21 "Simon Cooke" writes: > > There's a file kicking around the SAM world which explains the truth > > behind all the various companies such as WCC and Revelation, and who > > was involved with them and what there involvement was. It's quite > > interesting reading, and certainly scuppers lots of the arguing that > > went on last year when we were wondering who the owners of WCC were. > > > > I'm sure someone will send it to you (and if you are one of the > > people who has a copy, can you please forward it to me because my > > mailbox has trashed (again!) and I've lost it once more...thanks...) > > I wouldn't mind seeing a copy of that... How about it gets posted to the list since I'd like to see it as well, and that way we can clear up any errors that _may_ be in it ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 20:26:49 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:13:56 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd88da$6e1415a0$d371accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199805261743.SAA12977@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 324 Lines: 11 > > it. You only release stuff into the public domain when it no > longer has a > > commercial market or when it is not a good enough product to warrant > > commercial marketing. > > Tell me, are you familiar with the Linux phenomenon? Or perhaps my Comet To ASCII converter program? Always PD, somewhat invaluable. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 20:55:06 1998 From: nevilley@spamblock.nfy53.demon.co.uk (Nev Young) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I'd tried not to get involved in this one, but... Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:50:00 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <3576cdf0.19672075@post.demon.co.uk> References: <1fefe78e.356a9980@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1fefe78e.356a9980@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 326 Lines: 15 On Tue, 26 May 1998 06:29:19 EDT, BrenchleyR wrote: > In a message dated 21/05/98 10:51:24, you write: > >BrenchleyR writes: > >> In a message dated 19/05/98 16:16:14, you write: pots kettles black -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue May 26 21:04:05 1998 Date: Tue, 26 May 98 19:54:50 GMT Message-ID: <1069_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> From: James@lhutz.demon.co.uk (James R Curry) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: OASIS Post Box (Atari) v1.31E Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 880 Lines: 29 In E-Mail <000001bd88ce$132e8be0$d371accf@default> "Simon Cooke" wrote:- >> There's a file kicking around the SAM world which explains the truth >> behind all the various companies such as WCC and Revelation, and who >> was involved with them and what there involvement was. It's quite >> interesting reading, and certainly scuppers lots of the arguing that >> went on last year when we were wondering who the owners of WCC were. > >I wouldn't mind seeing a copy of that... > Me neither if anyone could be so kind... :) __ James R Curry - James@lhutz.demon.co.uk "You're missing the point! The individual doesn't matter. It was a team effort, and I was the one who came up with the whole team idea...me!" - Homer Simpson, The Simpsons. Please insert meaningless promise about The Official James R Curry web page here... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 00:20:15 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:06:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 565 Lines: 17 > >> It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the > >> information. > > > >ah! but the best way to milk the dwindling sam market for all it is > >worth is to advertise a product, not let on to anyone how many you > >are selling / have sold, and also not release it into the public > >domain. I'd like to see you say that to the millions of devoted programmer and developers of the FSF, they would cut you down instantly with that indignant attitude of yours. (Maybe that sould really be ignorant, not indignant?) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 00:20:17 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:06:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <5a463d2e.356ac22e@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 506 Lines: 15 > > > >Why "of course"? What is confidential about it? (Or is it that you only > >sell half a dozen per year and don't want to destroy your argument against > >putting it on the web?) > > Let us put it this way, would you go showing your pay-slip to anyone who asks? > > Yes, it doesn't bother me in the slightest if people know how much i earn, in fact i often show it to people, whether they be lower or higher paid than me. I'm man enough to accept critisism thats backed up. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 00:20:17 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:06:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <1634ad02.356ac232@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 592 Lines: 20 > > > >Who does the copyright actually belong to (eg person / company) ? > > > >DMZ > > If you are talking about the Tech Manual, me. > > It was passed to me just before MGT went under in payment of a bill for > printing. MGT/SAMCO had the sales rights until SAMCO went down. At that point > I started selling the manual. Yeah, we know you started selling it, so you say you've got the sales rights, now who owns the copyright, and is there written proof of this? Also the tech manual does not state that it or any part of it cannot be re- produced or distributed. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 00:20:19 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:06:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: I'd tried not to get involved in this one, but... In-reply-to: <1fefe78e.356a9980@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 588 Lines: 17 > >The software is restrictive because it forces you to work in a certain > >way. > > AH! So AOL restrict users because their email software and newsgroup software > is no quite what you would like it to be? Fine. It isn't for you. But stop > being stupid by knocking AOL just because one very small aspect of their > service doesn't meet your requirements. No, this is just one of the crap points od AOL, others include the pricing structure. Why do you have to talk down to everybody????? There was no need to call people stupid in that reply, so why did you? -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 00:20:19 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:06:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: User Groups? In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 103 Lines: 7 > > I've advised local solicitors on company law in the past. Yeah? AND ?????? -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 00:20:19 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:06:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: New Project - Writers wanted... In-reply-to: <810EB335EA@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 263 Lines: 9 > It'll be an A4 four page information leaflet that will be a forum for > news, reviews and bits and Bobs like that, it will be completely free > to anyone who sends an SAE, and 50p a month to those who don't. If Bobs in it forget it ;-) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 00:20:20 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:06:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <356AA3D3.8BA1EA35@cableol.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1061 Lines: 26 > many or not, and that's fair enough. You really are the most > egotistical, back stabbing, lying, arrogant twat I have ever had the > misfortune to come across (there you go Andrew, I'll join in his > name-calling game). You bring shame on the SAM world, you seem to enjoy > causing fights for the sake of it, you seem to enjoy dragging up stuff > from the past over and over again. And quite frankly, I couldn't give a > shit if Format died now - the whole idea of my SAM World mag was to Whooooooohhh, yeah, yipeee............... I originally bought all the back issues of floormat so that i had a complete set of it. Nut now all i want to doo is burn the bloody lot of them, i wasnt going to re- sub to floormat for the last two years, because i dont read it properly anymore, any this year, the attitude of B.B. has shown that i will definatly not be re- subbing !! So Bob, you yourself have just lost yourself one long standnig Sam User. It's all YOUR FAULT !!! You are contributing to Sam's Death !... Now how do you feel? -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 00:36:51 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:28:29 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd88fd$fd92c640$d371accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 420 Lines: 14 > Yeah, we know you started selling it, so you say you've got the > sales rights, > now who owns the copyright, and is there written proof of this? > > Also the tech manual does not state that it or any part of it > cannot be re- > produced or distributed. Actually, that legal boiler-plate is not necessary; that is assumed as part of the Geneva Copyright Convention. That doesn't affect fair-use rights, etc. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 00:53:40 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5c1085a.356ac238@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:43:18 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1161 Lines: 32 At 2:23 pm +0100 26/5/98, BrenchleyR wrote: >>ps. Copyright is a dirty word in the SAM world. Unless, of course, you're >>claiming victories in the FORMAT news pages for the wonders of FAST against >>schoolyard piracy. Which I still think is fucking out of order. > >Microsloth will soon change that tune. Bob, what on earth are you talking about now? Who brought Microsoft into this?! I don't think Simon was saying it's unfair to persue software pirates in general; I'd say he meant[1] it's unfair for _YOU_ to persue software pirates, Bob. And we both know Exactly what I'm talking about. Andrew [1] Sorry if I'm putting words into your mouth here, Simon -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 00:53:40 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3576cdf0.19672075@post.demon.co.uk> References: <1fefe78e.356a9980@aol.com> <1fefe78e.356a9980@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:46:39 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: I'd tried not to get involved in this one, but... X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 876 Lines: 27 At 8:50 pm +0100 26/5/98, Nev Young wrote: >On Tue, 26 May 1998 06:29:19 EDT, BrenchleyR >wrote: > >> In a message dated 21/05/98 10:51:24, you write: >> >BrenchleyR writes: >> >> In a message dated 19/05/98 16:16:14, you write: > >pots >kettles >black > You know, sometimes I really wish you were a little less obscure.... :) Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 00:58:02 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:48:48 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bd8900$d408e540$d371accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1095 Lines: 37 > >>ps. Copyright is a dirty word in the SAM world. Unless, of > course, you're > >>claiming victories in the FORMAT news pages for the wonders of > FAST against > >>schoolyard piracy. Which I still think is fucking out of order. > > > >Microsloth will soon change that tune. > > Bob, what on earth are you talking about now? > > Who brought Microsoft into this?! Bob :) > I don't think Simon was saying it's unfair to persue software pirates in > general; I'd say he meant[1] it's unfair for _YOU_ to persue software > pirates, Bob. That's part of it... the other part of it is that I don't think a kiddywink in a playground swapping software with his mates should be hurrah'd in Format as a Big Achievement (TM). That's like saying "well, you know, this guy who bought a joint's worth of hash, first time ever -- well, we sent him down for 5 years!" and parading it in the press, instead of going out there and catching the dealers. Simon > And we both know Exactly what I'm talking about. > > Andrew > > [1] Sorry if I'm putting words into your mouth here, Simon Nil Problemus. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 01:21:41 1998 Message-Id: <199805270016.BAA01891@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:16:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <000101bd88da$6e1415a0$d371accf@default> References: <199805261743.SAA12977@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 247 Lines: 9 > > Tell me, are you familiar with the Linux phenomenon? > > Or perhaps my Comet To ASCII converter program? Always PD, somewhat > invaluable. .. or anything i've ever written, ever. and there's lots of it banging around on the internet. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 01:31:24 1998 Message-Id: <199805270025.BAA02330@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:25:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM References: <356AA3D3.8BA1EA35@cableol.co.uk> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1076 Lines: 29 > So Bob, you yourself have just lost yourself one long standnig Sam User. > It's all YOUR FAULT !!! You are contributing to Sam's Death !... > Now how do you feel? did i ever tell anyone why i never bought a single issue of format, and why i never subscribed? because i thought it was SHIT. i got hold of one for free (must've picked it up at a computer fair, or maybe it got sent to me as part of that revelation/samco/fred/sd mailshot thing) and read it once. see, most other things i'd at least read again. no substance, nothing interesting, bad cover, crap articles, self-indulgent editorial/letters section, up its own arse. i get 200% more enjoyment out of reading QUANTA, the very long-standing fan-based user-group magazine for the sinclair ql. I DON'T EVEN HAVE A SINCLAIR QL. Now, SAM World, on the other hand, looks like a far more useful magazine. I think i'll get a few issues of that, try it out for size. Mainly because it's aimed at real people (not people who just want to read format), it's cheap, it's A4 ( :) ), and i give a shit. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 01:31:24 1998 Message-Id: <199805270028.BAA02426@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:27:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: fast tracker X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 173 Lines: 6 Simon, What was it you said that tune was for again? WinAmp crashed trying to play it so I downloaded fast tracker 2.08 (fair enough) so at least i've heard it now. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 01:48:01 1998 Message-Id: <199805270037.BAA04044@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:37:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: fast tracker In-reply-to: <199805270028.BAA02426@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 494 Lines: 14 > What was it you said that tune was for again? WinAmp crashed trying > to play it so I downloaded fast tracker 2.08 (fair enough) so at > least i've heard it now. You too, eh? :) Winamp didn't like it, mod4win didn't like it, inertia player doesn't even do xm's... in the end I had to fix Cubic Player. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 01:48:10 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: fast tracker Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 20:37:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000701bd8907$9f47c860$d371accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <199805270037.BAA04044@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 450 Lines: 16 > > What was it you said that tune was for again? WinAmp crashed trying > > to play it so I downloaded fast tracker 2.08 (fair enough) so at > > least i've heard it now. > > You too, eh? :) Winamp didn't like it, mod4win didn't like it, > inertia player doesn't even do xm's... in the end I had to fix Cubic > Player. Yikes... WEll... ModPlugin seems to like it. As long as I don't use samples with too high a number. Or too many samples. Simon From imc Wed May 27 02:16:48 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <000201bd8900$d408e540$d371accf@default> from Simon Cooke at "May 26, 98 07:48:48 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 02:16:48 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 552 Lines: 14 > >Microsloth will soon change that tune. > Bob, what on earth are you talking about now? This is about the fourth thing I've seen today which has apparently been a reply to Bob, the original of which I have not received. What is going on? Has he placed himself in my killfile? The nameservers here went haywire yesterday evening, so I suppose some mail could have been bounced or delayed. If it's still queued then it's funny that all today's mail arrived OK. Does the list owner have any mail bounce messages which came from around here? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 08:30:07 1998 Message-Id: <199805270727.JAA05631@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:27:55 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 954 Lines: 27 ---------- > Van: Simon Cooke > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: RE: INDUG and the Internet. > Datum: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 1:48 > That's part of it... the other part of it is that I don't think a kiddywink > in a playground swapping software with his mates should be hurrah'd in > Format as a Big Achievement (TM). > > That's like saying "well, you know, this guy who bought a joint's worth of > hash, first time ever -- well, we sent him down for 5 years!" and parading > it in the press, instead of going out there and catching the dealers. It could well be that Pirated software helps to sell computers and game-consoles, and promote the use of certain software packages. Microsoft and other big companies know that. It is still not right but when you use it in a clever way. -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 10:01:17 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <746d7d52.356bd584@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 04:57:39 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 371 Lines: 18 In a message dated 26/05/98 11:26:42, you write: > >"I'm always please to help new writers get started." > -- Bob Brenchley, 17 May 1998. > >It has been amply demonstrated that what you actually meant to say was "I'm >always pleased to help new writers get started, as long as they are writing >for FORMAT." > >imc > > That, of course goes without saying. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 10:10:19 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <8c9bada7.356bd789@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 05:06:16 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1020 Lines: 41 In a message dated 26/05/98 14:10:01, you write: >> In a message dated 22/05/98 09:40:01, you write: >> >> >> That information is, of course, confidental. >> > >> > >> >Brilliant, Bob. Just as a matter of interest, have you got _any_ rights to >> >_anything_? >> >> All that counts. > >Oh, yes very helpful Bob. Perhaps the question would be better phrased >as ... > >(Please note that this is a business request not a personal one ...) > >Could we have a list of everything that you (or West Coast/Format) have >the rights to please. > >Lee. Don't ask for much do you? Still, in round terms:- I own the rights to:- All MGT/SAMCo/SAMtech hardware and software except the SAM ASIC based controller board Bruce designed. All Blue Alpha products. All Format/Indug related products. I subcontracted all hardware to West Coast Computers. I subcontracted all Samco software to Revelation. Both contracts have a return option the details of which I will treat as confidential. Now. Any spacific questions? -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 10:25:27 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <7c78f1a6.356bd87c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 05:10:19 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: User Groups? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 694 Lines: 22 In a message dated 26/05/98 14:10:03, you write: >>> Format Publishing has been out of business for just as long as WCC. > >> Pardon??? > >Companies with the names >"West Coast Computers Limited" and "Format Publications Limited" >are registered as having been dissolved several years ago, that's all. True, West Coast Computers Ltd was desolved for legal reasons (there is another company trading now with the same title producing PCs) but West Coast Computers continues as a sole trader. Never heard of Format Publications Ltd, although there are several Format companies we have come across over the years (Format Publishing produces legal paperwork and guides IIRC). > [snip] -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 10:25:28 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <6a652e5b.356bd8ab@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 05:11:05 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 518 Lines: 21 In a message dated 26/05/98 14:30:42, you write: >BrenchleyR writes: > >> In a message dated 22/05/98 10:15:24, you write: >> >> >Why "of course"? What is confidential about it? (Or is it that you only >> >sell half a dozen per year and don't want to destroy your argument against >> >putting it on the web?) >> >> Let us put it this way, would you go showing your pay-slip to anyone who >asks? > >It's not your pay-slip it's FORMAT's income .... > >Lee. Anbd the difference is? -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 10:25:29 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <6cb395e.356bd8f3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 05:12:17 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 897 Lines: 29 In a message dated 26/05/98 16:54:38, you write: >> > damaging to the SAM world his attempts were going to be. There was then, >and >> > is now, only room for a very small number of mags/disczines. We were >then, and >> > are now, still overpopulated with mags/disczines. Anotherone may well >have >> > spelt the death of at least FORMAT and possibly others - but he was just >to >> > thick to see it. > >Bob, > >How can another magazine released for the SAM possibly damage the >SAM?!? As they say, private enterprise is a good thing and >competition will only make people put more into the SAM as they >strive to make the magazines better and better. > >What prey tell is your philosophy that there is only room for a >limited amount of mags and disczines? And what is the value of this >limited number exactly? > >MJC. That was gone into a lot at the time. Read the archives. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 10:25:31 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <342f7e27.356bd93d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 05:13:32 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: User Groups? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 340 Lines: 14 In a message dated 26/05/98 17:29:01, you write: >> INDUG was formed as a user group. Format was originally the >> newsletter of the user group but grew up and called itself a >> magazine. You still have to be a member to obtain the magazine >> (except when buying at shows). > > >which means that you don't, then. Don't what? -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 10:25:31 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <54393527.356bd98f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 05:14:54 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 334 Lines: 14 In a message dated 26/05/98 17:44:50, you write: >> it. You only release stuff into the public domain when it no longer has a >> commercial market or when it is not a good enough product to warrant >> commercial marketing. > >Tell me, are you familiar with the Linux phenomenon? > >Paul Linux is not PD as far as I know. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 10:25:32 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <99968e28.356bd9d2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 05:16:00 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 467 Lines: 18 In a message dated 26/05/98 19:28:12, you write: >> > it. You only release stuff into the public domain when it no >> longer has a >> > commercial market or when it is not a good enough product to warrant >> > commercial marketing. >> >> Tell me, are you familiar with the Linux phenomenon? > >Or perhaps my Comet To ASCII converter program? Always PD, somewhat >invaluable. > >Simon But, you would agree, hardly a commercial product in the first place. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 10:56:08 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <54393527.356bd98f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:51:34 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2047 Lines: 58 At 10:14 am +0100 27/5/98, BrenchleyR wrote: >In a message dated 26/05/98 17:44:50, you write: > >>> it. You only release stuff into the public domain when it no longer has a >>> commercial market or when it is not a good enough product to warrant >>> commercial marketing. >> >>Tell me, are you familiar with the Linux phenomenon? >> >>Paul > >Linux is not PD as far as I know. > >-- >Bob. Linux is held under the GNU General Public License, the full text of which is about 20K long but may be summarized as follows: - No warranty - Source code for the program is made freely available (for free or a small charge) - You may examine and modify the program - You may distribute modified or unmodified copies of the program with or without charge, provided that the next user has the same rights as you - ie once under GPL, always under GPL Okay, so this isn't _quite_ the same as the usual meaning of PD, but then again the FSF dislike those sort of terms because they're too vague and not clearly defined. One point to note is that there _are_ commercial distributions of Linux (like RedHat, Slackware and so on) but you're generally paying for the support rather than the software. You're still allowed to make copies of their distribution, you're even allowed to sell those copies for whatever price you choose, but only because the next user is allowed to do exactly the same. And if you want to continue arguing this point, please FIRST bring yourself up to speed by reading the GPL. You'll find a copy via http://www.gnu.org/ Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 11:52:26 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I'd tried not to get involved in this one, but... References: <1fefe78e.356a9980@aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 26 May 1998 13:11:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: BrenchleyR's message of "Tue, 26 May 1998 06:29:19 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1829 Lines: 46 BrenchleyR writes: > >and I know a lot of people who have similar ratios. My point being that > >my mail/news software lets me do things the way _I_ want, not the way > >that the author thought most people would want it done ... > > I doubt that one in one hundred would have a ratio like that, and you are I know about 15 in this room at the moment, ie people who are at university often are on a large number of mailing lists to keep up to date with current developments due to projects they are working on or sometimes just for personal interest ... > lucky that you have found news/mail software that works exacly as you > want Out of the box it doesn't, but it lets me configure it however I want it to work ... For more info try looking at http://www.gnus.org/ > I think the truth is that you have learn to use your software in one > of the ways its authors intended. That's Microsoft logic, you shouldn't have major areas of functionality forced upon you. I admit that this is a very simplistic ideal, but you'll find that sort of approach in a lot of the gnu software hanging around on the web, so it certainly isn't impossible ... > >The software is restrictive because it forces you to work in a certain > >way. > > AH! So AOL restrict users because their email software and newsgroup software > is no quite what you would like it to be? Fine. It isn't for you. But stop > being stupid by knocking AOL just because one very small aspect of their > service doesn't meet your requirements. All I said was that their software is restrictive. Whether it meets my requirements is kind of irrelevant, but either you or Bill (I can't remember who off the top of my head ...) claimed that it wasn't. All I'm doing is arguing the opposite. Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:07 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:22:50 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 460 Lines: 21 In a message dated 22/05/98 09:40:01, you write: >> That information is, of course, confidental. > > >Brilliant, Bob. Just as a matter of interest, have you got _any_ rights to >_anything_? All that counts. > >Before you answer, I currently do work for Companies House, and it's amazing >what I >can and have found out - not that I can disclose any of it. As you say, some >information is confidential. Unless someone pays to do a search. > >DMZ -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:08 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <1634ad02.356ac232@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:22:57 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 399 Lines: 18 In a message dated 22/05/98 10:44:53, you write: >Can I ask a question here? > >Who does the copyright actually belong to (eg person / company) ? > >DMZ If you are talking about the Tech Manual, me. It was passed to me just before MGT went under in payment of a bill for printing. MGT/SAMCO had the sales rights until SAMCO went down. At that point I started selling the manual. HTH. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:11 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <5a463d2e.356ac22e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:22:53 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 579 Lines: 20 In a message dated 22/05/98 10:15:24, you write: >On Fri, 22 May 1998 04:59:27 EDT, BrenchleyR said: >> >Ok cool, but how many technical manuals do you sell exactly? > >> That information is, of course, confidental. > >Why "of course"? What is confidential about it? (Or is it that you only >sell half a dozen per year and don't want to destroy your argument against >putting it on the web?) Let us put it this way, would you go showing your pay-slip to anyone who asks? > >It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the >information. > >imc -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:13 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:22:55 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1522 Lines: 39 In a message dated 22/05/98 10:28:11, you write: >> It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the >> information. > >ah! but the best way to milk the dwindling sam market for all it is >worth is to advertise a product, not let on to anyone how many you >are selling / have sold, and also not release it into the public >domain. And the best way to stop the SAM market from dwindling even further is to advertise a product in a commercial way and sell it to those people that want it. You only release stuff into the public domain when it no longer has a commercial market or when it is not a good enough product to warrant commercial marketing. > >presumably (and fair enough) bob is trying to get 'any money he can' >from interested sam users. it's his right. > > >i still think the world would benefit from having the tech manual and >other such sam specs in the public domain. if we can't USE the tech >manual, we'll just (not so blatantly) plagiarise it a bit, i suppose. Why would it benefit from having the Tech manual made PD? I don't understand this logic at all. > >are software / hardware *SPECIFICATIONS* actually copyrightable? i >expect they are not, so there would be no problem in ripping out the >content of the tech manual and putting it up on the internet, without >actually copying any of the wording used in the manual. I don't see how it would be possible to produce a tech manual without copying the wording, but if someone would like to try.... > >dave -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:14 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <9b9dd102.356ac231@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:22:56 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 881 Lines: 29 In a message dated 22/05/98 10:37:15, you write: >> Van: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> >> Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no >> Onderwerp: Re: INDUG and the Internet. >> Datum: Friday, May 22, 1998 1:20 >> >> > It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the >> > information. >> >> ah! but the best way to milk the dwindling sam market for all it is >> worth is to advertise a product, not let on to anyone how many you >> are selling / have sold, and also not release it into the public >> domain. > >And killing the Sam in the proces :( off course this is my opinion. I think the words you are looking for are " doing more than anyone to keep it alive." > >> presumably (and fair enough) bob is trying to get 'any money he can' >> from interested sam users. it's his right. > >See the above > -- >Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:15 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <8194792e.356ac235@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:23:00 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 440 Lines: 16 In a message dated 22/05/98 11:03:41, you write: >> Who does the copyright actually belong to (eg person / company) ? > >presumably MGT, and hence SAMCO, and hence WCC (as far as hardware >specs are concerned) > > > All rights to the Tech manual are with me. As are the rights to the SAM interfaces and most hardware. There is a gray area ove the main SAM board and the ASIC which is a little too complicated to go into here. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:26 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:23:01 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 436 Lines: 17 In a message dated 22/05/98 11:07:36, you write: >> presumably MGT, and hence SAMCO, and hence WCC (as far as hardware >> specs are concerned) > > >Interesting. I'd go ahead and duplicate the manual anyway, in that case. > >If WCC are meant to have the copyright, then there will be no lawsuit >whatsoever. Can be no lawsuit whatsoever. > >DMZ As I've said, the copyright in the Tech manual rests fair and square with me. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:27 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <98a1222e.356ac233@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:22:58 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 701 Lines: 19 In a message dated 22/05/98 11:03:40, you write: >is there any sam technical information that has been released into >the public domain (eg, by Bruce Gordon, Andy Wright, etc) - maybe the >ROM source code. > >If the source code is pd, then (presumably) the labels used in it >(for entry points and system variables) also enter the public >domain. No, it is not PD. Rights to the source code are split between Andy Wright and West Coast. Andy is the copyright holder but West Coast have the rights (aquired via me from SAMCO) to duplicate the ROM. Added to this, when Andy had to concentrate on other work about three years ago I agreeded to handle his SAM related interests for him. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:28 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <7ea1f2ee.356ac236@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:23:01 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: User Groups? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 475 Lines: 19 In a message dated 22/05/98 12:43:59, you write: >Just out of interest... > >... what makes Format/INDUG a user group, rather than just a magazine? INDUG was formed as a user group. Format was originally the newsletter of the user group but grew up and called itself a magazine. You still have to be a member to obtain the magazine (except when buying at shows). > >I've been wondering about this for quite a while, but I've never worked it >out. > >Simon HTH. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:29 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:22:57 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 463 Lines: 15 In a message dated 22/05/98 11:03:38, you write: >> > presumably (and fair enough) bob is trying to get 'any money he can' >> > from interested sam users. it's his right. >> >> And killing the Sam in the proces :( off course this is my opinion. > >don't get me wrong. i agree totally. it's the worst possible thing. >but, nonetheless, it is bob's right. Ah, so profit has become a dirty word in the SAM world? No wonder we have the problems we do. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:30 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <5c1085a.356ac238@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:23:03 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 621 Lines: 26 In a message dated 22/05/98 13:08:58, you write: >> Can I ask a question here? >> >> Who does the copyright actually belong to (eg person / company) ? >> >> DMZ >> --- > >Well... according to the receivers... Now, are you talking of MGT's receivers, or Samco's liquidators? (the two get some people confused). > >But that would be telling. > >Simon > >ps. Copyright is a dirty word in the SAM world. Unless, of course, you're >claiming victories in the FORMAT news pages for the wonders of FAST against >schoolyard piracy. Which I still think is fucking out of order. Microsloth will soon change that tune. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:31 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <64593b2e.356ac23b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:23:06 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 416 Lines: 16 In a message dated 26/05/98 07:38:34, you write: > >Errr... no. Does this mean its being run as a personal liability, then? >While this could explain things more than adequately, it sounds a really >stupid thing to do - the individual is liable for _all_ debts incurred >since they haven't got the option of dissolving the company. > >Would somebody like to bring me up to date on this? :) > >DMZ Why? -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:32 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <9ec9d505.356ac237@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:23:02 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 100 Lines: 8 In a message dated 22/05/98 13:08:57, you write: >Face it. SAM's dead. Oh no it isn't. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:33 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:23:04 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: User Groups? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1121 Lines: 36 In a message dated 22/05/98 13:22:49, you write: >>Just out of interest... >> >>... what makes Format/INDUG a user group, rather than just a magazine? >> >>I've been wondering about this for quite a while, but I've never worked it >>out. > > >I have absolutely no idea. >Format Publishing has been out of business for just as long as WCC. Pardon??? > >If any of these facts are disputed, then what are the company numbers? Neither are limited companies so there are no company numbers. West Coast have not been limited since 1994 (I think) and Format never has been. > >If my search criteria didn't show up WCC or Format, then fair enough, I >apologise. > >However, there's absolutely no reason to withold a company number. >In fact, it should really be quoted with all trade carried out by the >company. No, if you are a limited company your company number needs to be shown on all letterheads, official orders and certain legal documents. It does not need to be shown in adverts, sales leaflets and the like. Nor, strangely, on invoices. > >DMZ I've advised local solicitors on company law in the past. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:34 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <95946b2f.356ac23b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:23:05 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 353 Lines: 17 In a message dated 24/05/98 22:45:12, you write: >o > >> It was the Oric Atmos, the Atom was the precursor od the BBC B from Acorn. > >sssh! it was a failed attempt at humour! > >anyway, wasn't the precusor the Electron? > >dave No, that came after - it was a cut down BBC (no mode 7). Still got both in the loft, and an Oric, but no Atom. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:35 1998 Message-ID: <008601bd88ac$3e15a400$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:42:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 108 Lines: 10 >As I've said, the copyright in the Tech manual rests fair and square with me. > Understood. :) DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 12:28:35 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 26 May 1998 15:04:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: BrenchleyR's message of "Tue, 26 May 1998 09:22:50 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 567 Lines: 24 BrenchleyR writes: > In a message dated 22/05/98 09:40:01, you write: > > >> That information is, of course, confidental. > > > > > >Brilliant, Bob. Just as a matter of interest, have you got _any_ rights to > >_anything_? > > All that counts. Oh, yes very helpful Bob. Perhaps the question would be better phrased as ... (Please note that this is a business request not a personal one ...) Could we have a list of everything that you (or West Coast/Format) have the rights to please. Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From imc Wed May 27 12:32:48 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:32:48 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199805270116.CAA25900@ruby.comlab> from "Ian Collier" at May 27, 98 02:16:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 224 Lines: 7 On Wed, 27 May 1998 02:16:48 +0100 (BST), Ian Collier said: > The nameservers here went haywire yesterday evening, so I suppose some > mail could have been bounced or delayed. Woahhh! They just arrived all at once... imc From imc Wed May 27 13:36:40 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:36:40 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <5c1085a.356ac238@aol.com> from "BrenchleyR" at May 26, 98 09:23:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 299 Lines: 9 On Tue, 26 May 1998 09:23:03 EDT, BrenchleyR said: [Simon's story about schoolyard piracy] > Microsloth will soon change that tune. I believe Bob is referring to Simon's prospective employers and intimating that they might indoctrinate him into a different viewpoint with regard to piracy... imc From imc Wed May 27 13:37:51 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:37:51 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <5a463d2e.356ac22e@aol.com> from "BrenchleyR" at May 26, 98 09:22:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 288 Lines: 8 On Tue, 26 May 1998 09:22:53 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > Let us put it this way, would you go showing your pay-slip to anyone who asks? Yes, if it were pertinent to the discussion. Anyway, unless selling technical manuals is your sole source of income this is hardly a valid analogy. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 16:01:52 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <99968e28.356bd9d2@aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 27 May 1998 15:57:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: BrenchleyR's message of "Wed, 27 May 1998 05:16:00 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 587 Lines: 20 BrenchleyR writes: > >> > it. You only release stuff into the public domain when it no > >> longer has a > >> > commercial market or when it is not a good enough product to warrant > >> > commercial marketing. > >> > >Or perhaps my Comet To ASCII converter program? Always PD, somewhat > >invaluable. > >Simon > > But, you would agree, hardly a commercial product in the first place. Ok, how about http://www.gimp.org the GPL X11 equivalent of Photoshop, go on dare you to argue that that's not sellable ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 16:01:53 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: fast tracker References: <000701bd8907$9f47c860$d371accf@default> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 27 May 1998 16:00:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Simon Cooke"'s message of "Tue, 26 May 1998 20:37:26 -0400" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 285 Lines: 11 "Simon Cooke" writes: > WEll... ModPlugin seems to like it. As long as I don't use samples with too > high a number. Or too many samples. Yep Simons got the Microsoft incompatibility thing down already ;) Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 16:17:22 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:09:51 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <6cb395e.356bd8f3@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <2D686A818D8@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 644 Lines: 15 > >How can another magazine released for the SAM possibly damage the > >SAM?!? As they say, private enterprise is a good thing and > >competition will only make people put more into the SAM as they > >strive to make the magazines better and better. > >What prey tell is your philosophy that there is only room for a > >limited amount of mags and disczines? And what is the value of this > >limited number exactly? > That was gone into a lot at the time. Read the archives. If you were paying attention to the mailings in this list, you would have noticed that I spent a good few messages saying how I couldn't read the archives. MJC. From imc Wed May 27 16:26:28 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:26:28 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <2D686A818D8@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> from "Matthew Craven" at May 27, 98 04:09:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 611 Lines: 13 On Wed, 27 May 1998 16:09:51 BST, Matthew Craven said: > If you were paying attention to the mailings in this list, you would > have noticed that I spent a good few messages saying how I couldn't > read the archives. I don't remember that at all. I remember you complaining that you thought .gz was to do with Unix. Whereupon I gave you the URL of an MSDOS executable to decompress them, also adding that I thought Netscape would do it automatically. Some people suggested that WinZip would do it, though I've personally never tried it. And you didn't reply, so it looked as if it had been sorted. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 16:36:06 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 11:25:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd8983$b8050620$bd6faccf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199805271236.MAA12807@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 432 Lines: 13 > On Tue, 26 May 1998 09:23:03 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > [Simon's story about schoolyard piracy] > > Microsloth will soon change that tune. > > I believe Bob is referring to Simon's prospective employers and intimating > that they might indoctrinate him into a different viewpoint with regard to > piracy... Which isn't going to happen actually :) I'd like for someone to point out what they think my view of piracy *is* :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 16:36:07 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 11:25:43 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd8983$b7094100$bd6faccf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <8c9bada7.356bd789@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 354 Lines: 12 > I subcontracted all hardware to West Coast Computers. > I subcontracted all Samco software to Revelation. > > Both contracts have a return option the details of which I will treat as > confidential. > > Now. Any spacific questions? Yes. When was the last time either Chris White or Domark were paid anything from the sales of Prince of Persia? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 18:46:24 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ATLANTECH From: Scott Russell To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <00256611.006508FE.00@mail.atlan-tech.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 18:25:57 +0000 Subject: Re: The SAM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 583 Lines: 18 Thanks very much for the disks. I haven't had much time to mess around with them but I had a quick shot of the adventures on them. Hmmm, took me back that did. I'll get back to you once I've had a better mess around, but I thought I'd let you know that I received them. Again, thanks a lot. It's very much appreciated. I'll probably have to get a 512k RAM upgrade, which means going to Bob and getting it. What is he like to deal with. The list seems full of people shouting at him and it looks as though a lot of people don't trust him. What's your opinion? Cheers Scott From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 18:46:25 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:38:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <99968e28.356bd9d2@aol.com> Message-Id: <19980527174538Z49352-30736+619@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 550 Lines: 21 > From: BrenchleyR > Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 05:16:00 EDT > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Wed, 27 May 98 18:24:03 BST > In a message dated 26/05/98 19:28:12, Mr Blobby wrote: > > >Or perhaps my Comet To ASCII converter program? Always PD, somewhat > >invaluable. > > > >Simon > > But, you would agree, hardly a commercial product in the first place. > > -- > Bob. Ooohhh... I dunno about that ;) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 18:46:25 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:30:32 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd8995$26c7c280$e263accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <99968e28.356bd9d2@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 746 Lines: 29 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no [mailto:owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no]On > Behalf Of BrenchleyR > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 5:16 AM > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. > > > In a message dated 26/05/98 19:28:12, you write: > > >> > it. You only release stuff into the public domain when it no > >> longer has a > >> > commercial market or when it is not a good enough product to warrant > >> > commercial marketing. > >> > >> Tell me, are you familiar with the Linux phenomenon? > > > >Or perhaps my Comet To ASCII converter program? Always PD, somewhat > >invaluable. > > > >Simon > > But, you would agree, hardly a commercial product in the first place. Why not? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 19:04:32 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:45:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <00256611.006508FE.00@mail.atlan-tech.com> Message-Id: <19980527175150Z49355-30736+622@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 496 Lines: 19 > I'll probably have to get a 512k RAM upgrade, which means going to Bob and > getting it. What is he like to deal with. The list seems full of people > shouting at him and it looks as though a lot of people don't trust him. > What's your opinion? > > Cheers > > Scott Well you don't have to buy one from Bob... Malcolm Mackenzie sells the 256K upgrades built by Mr A L Bennett. They are cheaper, and of course totally compatible! David BTW - Macks number is of course 0161 797 0651! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 19:04:32 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:46:02 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <000001bd8995$26c7c280$e263accf@default> References: <99968e28.356bd9d2@aol.com> Message-Id: <19980527175252Z49356-30736+623@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 280 Lines: 13 > > > > > >Or perhaps my Comet To ASCII converter program? Always PD, somewhat > > >invaluable. > > > > > >Simon > > > > But, you would agree, hardly a commercial product in the first place. > > Why not? > > Simon Well Simon, don't forget you're only a "Stupid Demo Coder" ;) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 19:04:33 1998 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 18:18:01 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: "Douglas J. Young" Subject: sam coupe 512k for sale with hundreds of disks and a quazar surround MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 <$IZAMfYmwKnNP8T9kmPtfY$gCX> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 110 Lines: 6 sam coupe 512k for sale with hundreds of disks and a quazar surround > >sound card. > > -- Douglas J. Young From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 19:15:17 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199805201906.UAA07098@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> <199805201900.UAA06516@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> <231FA6941B2@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:06:02 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: sam-users archive X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1387 Lines: 32 At 8:42 pm +0100 20/5/98, Andrew Collier wrote: >At 9:06 pm +0100 20/5/98, Dave Hooper wrote: >>> i used winzip 6.3 to un-gzip mnemodemo1.gz and i got this weird >>> file which was longer than any other .dsk file i'd ever seen. >> >>er, forgot to mention that this was a file i'd downloaded from the >>mnemotech page whose url was posted here earlier today (and not the >>url i casually 'cut&paste'd into the other email). oops. > >Well I think winzip must be buggy or something strange is going on, because >that file definitely uncompresses to exactly 819200 bytes; I've just tested >it myself. Actually..... this may have been my fault after all :( It seems I'd forgotten to properly set the MIME type for .gz files on carou's web server, so the file you downloaded may not have been an accurate copy of the file on my hard disk. If you want to try again it should work now... Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 20:03:40 1998 Message-Id: <199805271858.TAA21157@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:58:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <746d7d52.356bd584@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 348 Lines: 12 > That, of course goes without saying. For clarification: does this mean that you're not willing to help people who want to start writing for other magazines? Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 20:03:41 1998 Message-Id: <199805271858.TAA21163@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:58:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <54393527.356bd98f@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 615 Lines: 16 > >> it. You only release stuff into the public domain when it no longer has a > >> commercial market or when it is not a good enough product to warrant > >> commercial marketing. > >Tell me, are you familiar with the Linux phenomenon? > Linux is not PD as far as I know. It's effectively so. It's certainly freely available, and modifiable by anyone - and it's also sold by some people. Which sort of screws up your argument. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 20:03:42 1998 Message-Id: <199805271858.TAA21166@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:58:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <000101bd88da$6e1415a0$d371accf@default> References: <199805261743.SAA12977@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 344 Lines: 12 > Or perhaps my Comet To ASCII converter program? Always PD, somewhat > invaluable. .. although, it has to be said, not quite on the same scale as Linux. ;) Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 20:19:01 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:09:39 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01bd89a2$ff57e6e0$e263accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199805271858.TAA21166@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 333 Lines: 13 > > Or perhaps my Comet To ASCII converter program? Always PD, somewhat > > invaluable. > > .. although, it has to be said, not quite on the same scale as Linux. > ;) True, but I was trying to give a SAM example :) Or how about... GI-MON? Turbomon is now PD too... and as far as I'm concerned, that's the best of the bunch. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 23:07:47 1998 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 18:02:06 -0400 From: Gordon Wallis <101762.2062@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: User Groups? To: "INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no" Message-ID: <199805271802_MC2-3E5A-3852@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 451 Lines: 13 Message text written by INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no >> I've advised local solicitors on company law in the past. Yeah? AND ?????? < Perhaps Bob's 'local solicitors' are not qualified? I understand Derby University (probably among others) ran a law degree which was not recognised by the Bar. But then, I've never seen any letters after Bob's name. At least, none which are acronyms, and there's usually a vowel substituted with an ast*risk ;) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 23:15:54 1998 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 18:06:16 -0400 From: Gordon Wallis <101762.2062@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: The SAM To: "INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no" Message-ID: <199805271806_MC2-3E5A-38AF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 557 Lines: 11 Message text written by INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no >i got hold of one for free (must've picked it up at a computer fair, or maybe it got sent to me as part of that revelation/samco/fred/sd mailshot thing) and read it once. see, most other things i'd at least read again. no substance, nothing interesting, bad cover, crap articles, self-indulgent editorial/letters section, up its own arse. < Oh, come on! You didn't like the cover? Those cartoons were the only reason I had a subscription for as long as I did. Perhaps that was a bad month, Dave. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 23:34:34 1998 Message-Id: <199805272228.XAA15855@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 23:28:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sam-users archive In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 250 Lines: 9 > Actually..... this may have been my fault after all :( i got it working on me own anyway, but the download seeems to be fine now. can i point out to mjc that winzip CAN and does reliably handle .gz files, and is effectively free. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 23:52:58 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 23:36:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <54393527.356bd98f@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896308918.2013168.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 383 Lines: 19 > >> it. You only release stuff into the public domain when it no longer has a > >> commercial market or when it is not a good enough product to warrant > >> commercial marketing. > > > >Tell me, are you familiar with the Linux phenomenon? > > > >Paul > > Linux is not PD as far as I know. > > -- > Bob. Then you don't know anything about Linux, do you ?? -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed May 27 23:52:58 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 23:40:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <199805271806_MC2-3E5A-38AF@compuserve.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896309083.2013483.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 683 Lines: 17 > Message text written by INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no > >i got hold of one for free (must've picked it up at a computer fair, > or maybe it got sent to me as part of that revelation/samco/fred/sd > mailshot thing) and read it once. see, most other things i'd at least > read again. no substance, nothing interesting, bad cover, crap > articles, self-indulgent editorial/letters section, up its own arse. > < > > Oh, come on! You didn't like the cover? Those cartoons were the only reason > I had a subscription for as long as I did. Perhaps that was a bad month, > Dave. But the cover doest just go to show how self - obsesed Bob is with his magazine. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 00:08:40 1998 Message-Id: <199805272303.AAA17493@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 00:02:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <54393527.356bd98f@aol.com> In-reply-to: <896308918.2013168.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 369 Lines: 18 " > > Linux is not PD as far as I know. > > Bob. " Robert Brenchley, 26th May 1998 > Then you don't know anything about Linux, do you ?? > Dean Liversidge If Dean was Bob, and Bob was Dean, and Dean said 'Linux is not PD as far as I know' then Bob would probably call Dean stupid. just one of those wacky observations that make this list what it is today. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 00:13:21 1998 Message-Id: <356C9CFA.DF3E8C4B@cableol.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 00:08:42 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM (also, Formats for sale!) References: <896309083.2013483.0@error.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1050 Lines: 22 Dean Liversidge wrote: > But the cover doest just go to show how self - obsesed Bob is with his > magazine. Actually, I think it usually does exactly that! Recent issues have had, as captions on the cover - "Read in ALL in the Right Places", "Strange, But Some People Still Don't Read FORMAT", "If your computer could talk, it would ask for FORMAT", "FORMAT - The Superhero for your computer", "FORMAT - Keeping You on the Right Side" *chokes*, "FORMAT - The True British Champion" and "Filled with the Things You Really Want To Read". I could go on, but I can't be arsed :) By the way, I'm moving house soon, so I'm clearing out the sh*t, and I've got a pile of Formats if anyone wants them. Format Vol. 6 No. 9 to Vol. 11 No. 8. (60 issues) - 50p each or #25 the lot. In mint and unread condition ;) Drop me a mail if you're stupid - erm, interested I mean. -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@cableol.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 00:29:36 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:06:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM References: <199805271806_MC2-3E5A-38AF@compuserve.com> In-reply-to: <896309083.2013483.0@error.demon.co.uk> Message-Id: <19980527232207Z49305-30736+704@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 802 Lines: 21 > > Message text written by INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no > > >i got hold of one for free (must've picked it up at a computer fair, > > or maybe it got sent to me as part of that revelation/samco/fred/sd > > mailshot thing) and read it once. see, most other things i'd at least > > read again. no substance, nothing interesting, bad cover, crap > > articles, self-indulgent editorial/letters section, up its own arse. > > < > > > > Oh, come on! You didn't like the cover? Those cartoons were the only reason > > I had a subscription for as long as I did. Perhaps that was a bad month, > > Dave. > > But the cover doest just go to show how self - obsesed Bob is with his > magazine. > > -- > Dean Liversidge In all fairness... all fanzines like to plug themselves silly on the cover... ;) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 00:29:45 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:09:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <199805271806_MC2-3E5A-38AF@compuserve.com> Message-Id: <19980527232319Z49295-30736+705@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1085 Lines: 27 > Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 18:06:16 -0400 > From: Gordon Wallis <101762.2062@compuserve.com> > Subject: Re: The SAM > To: "INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no" > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Thu, 28 May 98 00:03:00 BST > Message text written by INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no > >i got hold of one for free (must've picked it up at a computer fair, > or maybe it got sent to me as part of that revelation/samco/fred/sd > mailshot thing) and read it once. see, most other things i'd at least > read again. no substance, nothing interesting, bad cover, crap > articles, self-indulgent editorial/letters section, up its own arse. > < > > Oh, come on! You didn't like the cover? Those cartoons were the only reason > I had a subscription for as long as I did. Perhaps that was a bad month, > Dave. I think the artist was very good on Format... Although I do worry about the copyright ramifications of using characters from Star Trek, Doctor Who etc.... Surely that can't be breaking Copyright rules? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 00:29:46 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:18:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM (also, Formats for sale!) In-reply-to: <356C9CFA.DF3E8C4B@cableol.co.uk> Message-Id: <19980527232517Z49295-30736+706@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1235 Lines: 31 > Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 00:08:42 +0100 > From: Gavin Smith > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: The SAM (also, Formats for sale!) > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Thu, 28 May 98 00:23:54 BST > Dean Liversidge wrote: > > > But the cover doest just go to show how self - obsesed Bob is with his > > magazine. > > Actually, I think it usually does exactly that! Recent issues have had, > as captions on the cover - "Read in ALL in the Right Places", "Strange, > But Some People Still Don't Read FORMAT", "If your computer could talk, > it would ask for FORMAT", "FORMAT - The Superhero for your computer", > "FORMAT - Keeping You on the Right Side" *chokes*, "FORMAT - The True > British Champion" and "Filled with the Things You Really Want To Read". > I could go on, but I can't be arsed :) > > By the way, I'm moving house soon, so I'm clearing out the sh*t, and > I've got a pile of Formats if anyone wants them. Format Vol. 6 No. 9 to > Vol. 11 No. 8. (60 issues) - 50p each or #25 the lot. In mint and unread > condition ;) Drop me a mail if you're stupid - erm, interested I mean. 50p the lot? No... can't afford that :) David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 00:47:09 1998 From: nevilley@spamblock.nfy53.demon.co.uk (Nev Young) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: I'd tried not to get involved in this one, but... Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 23:39:50 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <35709292.8491430@post.demon.co.uk> References: <1fefe78e.356a9980@aol.com> <1fefe78e.356a9980@aol.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 631 Lines: 23 On Wed, 27 May 1998 00:46:39 +0100, Andrew Collier wrote: > At 8:50 pm +0100 26/5/98, Nev Young wrote: > >On Tue, 26 May 1998 06:29:19 EDT, BrenchleyR > >wrote: > > > >> In a message dated 21/05/98 10:51:24, you write: > >> >BrenchleyR writes: > >> >> In a message dated 19/05/98 16:16:14, you write: > > > >pots > >kettles > >black > > > > You know, sometimes I really wish you were a little less obscure.... :) > It's ok Andrew. Those to whom the message is aimed will understand it. -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 01:19:56 1998 Message-Id: <199805280016.BAA21598@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 01:16:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM References: <199805271806_MC2-3E5A-38AF@compuserve.com> In-reply-to: <19980527232319Z49295-30736+705@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 121 Lines: 4 > I think the artist was very good on Format... the artist, i expect, was good. only, the covers themselves were crap. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 03:40:38 1998 Date: Thu, 28 May 98 02:31:08 GMT Message-ID: <1074_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> From: James@lhutz.demon.co.uk (James R Curry) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: OASIS Post Box (Atari) v1.31E Subject: Re: User Groups? X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 610 Lines: 27 In E-Mail <199805271802_MC2-3E5A-3852@compuserve.com> Gordon Wallis <101762.2062@compuserve.com> wrote:- >But then, I've never seen any letters after Bob's name. > >At least, none which are acronyms, and there's usually a vowel substituted >with an ast*risk ;) Bob Br*nchly? ;) __ James R Curry - James@lhutz.demon.co.uk "You're missing the point! The individual doesn't matter. It was a team effort, and I was the one who came up with the whole team idea...me!" - Homer Simpson, The Simpsons. Please insert meaningless promise about The Official James R Curry web page here... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 07:25:58 1998 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:20:14 +0200 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9805280620.AA18248@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Holidays X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 208 Lines: 9 Hi. Just informing you all that I'm going away for 2 weeks to Costa del Sol. I'll be back on monday the 15th June. I hope things has cooled down here on the list till then. :/ So long. Take care. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 10:31:26 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256612.0033F57E.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:28:35 +0100 Subject: I'm back! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 142 Lines: 8 Hi Gang, I'm back! Did you miss me? (Did you expect me to return?) So, what's happened? Did I miss much? Has the arguing stopped? Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 19:31:53 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <3432575a.356dab83@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:22:58 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Any progress? Good Question:) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 490 Lines: 17 In a message dated 20/05/98 07:52:54, you write: > > > > > >A good idea, there is still a lot that can be done with the original > > >machine, hard disk would make it quicker to work on though! > > > > A working hard drive system has been available for a long time you know. > > Yep, but as yet I have not seen one that is usable in a way i want at > a price that i feel reasonable. Invest in a system from SD, it is well worth the money. > > -- > Dean Liversidge Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 19:31:54 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:23:00 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 995 Lines: 33 In a message dated 22/05/98 10:15:24, you write: > > On Fri, 22 May 1998 04:59:27 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > > >Ok cool, but how many technical manuals do you sell exactly? > > > That information is, of course, confidental. > > Why "of course"? What is confidential about it? (Or is it that you only > sell half a dozen per year and don't want to destroy your argument against > putting it on the web?) Oh come on! Do you really expect any business to tell you how many of any item they sell? Lets say its lots, just for argument. Then someone turns round an takes part of the sales away by doing an alternative. Not good for your business. Lets say its only a handful. People become aware of how small a market is and confidence goes out the window. I think a few secrets are valid. > > It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the > information. Says who, I could be about to launch my own version (ok, I'm not, but I could be). > > imc Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 19:31:55 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <1194ffb0.356dab86@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:23:01 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1220 Lines: 35 In a message dated 22/05/98 10:28:11, you write: > > It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the > > information. > > ah! but the best way to milk the dwindling sam market for all it is > worth is to advertise a product, not let on to anyone how many you > are selling / have sold, and also not release it into the public > domain. > > presumably (and fair enough) bob is trying to get 'any money he can' > from interested sam users. it's his right. > > > i still think the world would benefit from having the tech manual and > other such sam specs in the public domain. if we can't USE the tech > manual, we'll just (not so blatantly) plagiarise it a bit, i suppose. How does that help? > > are software / hardware *SPECIFICATIONS* actually copyrightable? i Everything is copyright unless the owner has clearly put something into the public domain. > expect they are not, so there would be no problem in ripping out the > content of the tech manual and putting it up on the internet, without > actually copying any of the wording used in the manual. How could you put technical detail up without using the information that is copyright? > > dave Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 19:46:48 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Any progress? Good Question:) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:31:21 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd8a66$cfb22da0$4f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3432575a.356dab83@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 564 Lines: 20 > > > >A good idea, there is still a lot that can be done with the > original > > > >machine, hard disk would make it quicker to work on though! > > > > > > A working hard drive system has been available for a long > time you know. > > > > Yep, but as yet I have not seen one that is usable in a way i want at > > a price that i feel reasonable. > > Invest in a system from SD, it is well worth the money. Bill, why not try reading what he wrote again... "I have not seen one that is usable in a way I want at a price that I feel [is] reasonable" Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 19:46:49 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:35:13 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bd8a67$5a700fc0$4f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1194ffb0.356dab86@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1111 Lines: 35 > > i still think the world would benefit from having the tech manual and > > other such sam specs in the public domain. if we can't USE the tech > > manual, we'll just (not so blatantly) plagiarise it a bit, i suppose. > > How does that help? BUY A CLUE. Tech specs freely available allow for a greater influx of people who want to play around with a new architecture. > > > > are software / hardware *SPECIFICATIONS* actually copyrightable? i > > Everything is copyright unless the owner has clearly put > something into the > public domain. Actually, hardware specs come into a very interesting niche -- because I can redraw them, and they're no longer copyright protected. If those specs weren't patented, I can then use the design to sell SAMs myself. > > expect they are not, so there would be no problem in ripping out the > > content of the tech manual and putting it up on the internet, without > > actually copying any of the wording used in the manual. > > How could you put technical detail up without using the > information that is > copyright? You'd be surprised. Watch me. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 20:11:27 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:57:10 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2196 Lines: 58 At 7:23 pm +0100 28/5/98, wrote: >In a message dated 22/05/98 10:15:24, you write: >> On Fri, 22 May 1998 04:59:27 EDT, BrenchleyR said: >> > >Ok cool, but how many technical manuals do you sell exactly? >> >> > That information is, of course, confidental. >> >> Why "of course"? What is confidential about it? (Or is it that you only >> sell half a dozen per year and don't want to destroy your argument against >> putting it on the web?) > >Oh come on! Do you really expect any business to tell you how many of any item >they sell? Between July and December 1997, Future Publishing sold, on average, 40,180 copies of MacFormat per month. For example. >Lets say its lots, just for argument. Then someone turns round an takes part >of the sales away by doing an alternative. Not good for your business. That's half the reason people are asking; if an online technical manual would actually affect Bob's income in any way shape or form I don't think people would bother to do it. >Lets say its only a handful. People become aware of how small a market is and >confidence goes out the window. What confidence? Frankly, anyone who doesn't know how small the sam's market is by now, is living with his head in the clouds. >I think a few secrets are valid. The entire discussion hinges on Bob actually answering the question. He doesn't need to give an exact figure, just a rough guide so people know where they stand. But then, why break the habit of a lifetime? >> It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the >> information. > >Says who, I could be about to launch my own version (ok, I'm not, but I could >be). Don't be silly. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 20:11:28 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <8d36d49b.356db3a5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:57:40 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Any progress? Good Question:) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 285 Lines: 14 In a message dated 28/05/98 18:37:19, you write: > > Bill, why not try reading what he wrote again... > > "I have not seen one that is usable in a way I want at a price that I feel > [is] reasonable" > > Simon > > Then he hasn't looked at the SD system has he :) Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 20:11:28 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <8a9a7792.356db3b4@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:57:55 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 673 Lines: 25 In a message dated 27/05/98 17:53:33, you write: > > I'll probably have to get a 512k RAM upgrade, which means going to Bob and > > getting it. What is he like to deal with. The list seems full of people > > shouting at him and it looks as though a lot of people don't trust him. > > What's your opinion? > > > > Cheers > > > > Scott > > Well you don't have to buy one from Bob... > > Malcolm Mackenzie sells the 256K upgrades built by Mr A L Bennett. > > They are cheaper, and of course totally compatible! > > David > > BTW - Macks number is of course 0161 797 0651! > I trust he has permission from West Coast to sell such a thing? Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 20:11:43 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:57:54 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1010 Lines: 30 In a message dated 27/05/98 17:30:30, you write: > > Thanks very much for the disks. I haven't had much time to mess around > with them but I had a quick shot of the adventures on them. Hmmm, took me > back that did. > > I'll get back to you once I've had a better mess around, but I thought I'd > let you know that I received them. > > Again, thanks a lot. It's very much appreciated. > > I'll probably have to get a 512k RAM upgrade, which means going to Bob and > getting it. What is he like to deal with. The list seems full of people > shouting at him and it looks as though a lot of people don't trust him. > What's your opinion? If I may stick my two pennuth in, Bob can't be anywhere near as bad as some of the people on this list would have you think - after all he does run a user group with several thousand members covering not only Sam but the Spectrum and PC. Why not email him direct at Formatpub@AOL.COM > > Cheers > > Scott Bill. (A very happy INDUG member). From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 20:11:44 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3432575a.356dab83@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:59:49 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Any progress? Good Question:) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1232 Lines: 31 At 7:22 pm +0100 28/5/98, wrote: >In a message dated 20/05/98 07:52:54, you write: > >> > > >> > >A good idea, there is still a lot that can be done with the original >> > >machine, hard disk would make it quicker to work on though! >> > >> > A working hard drive system has been available for a long time you know. >> >> Yep, but as yet I have not seen one that is usable in a way i want at >> a price that i feel reasonable. > >Invest in a system from SD, it is well worth the money. He knows about that. He said he knows about that. He also said what he thinks about it. He is entitled to his opinion. I can think of few people who would argue otherwise, and all of you are called Bob Brenchley. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 20:11:46 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <420b2e11.356db40e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:59:23 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 253 Lines: 13 In a message dated 28/05/98 18:45:01, you write: > > How could you put technical detail up without using the > > information that is > > copyright? > > You'd be surprised. Watch me. > > Simon Looking forward to seeing what you can do. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 20:11:48 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <535139d5.356db3b5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:57:56 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 434 Lines: 15 In a message dated 27/05/98 22:54:52, you write: > > Oh, come on! You didn't like the cover? Those cartoons were the only reason > > I had a subscription for as long as I did. Perhaps that was a bad month, > > Dave. > > But the cover doest just go to show how self - obsesed Bob is with his > magazine. > And other mags like ZX, Crash, SU and YS were different? If you look at any magazine it tends to hype itself. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 20:14:46 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1194ffb0.356dab86@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:11:40 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1551 Lines: 38 At 7:23 pm +0100 28/5/98, wrote: >Everything is copyright unless the owner has clearly put something into the >public domain. Wrong again. In fact, whilst not quite so simple, almost the opposite is true. You would be on legally shaky ground to claim copyright on something, unless you had included the copyright symbol (or the word, copyright), the year, and your name. And there are some things you just can't copyright. It has for example been established, through lengthy legal battles between Apple and Microsoft, that you can't copyright "look and feel". And information is another interesting case. You can copyright a particular collection of sentences, ie the way in which some information is expressed. But you cannot copyright the information itself. Who owns copyright on the fact that Paris is the capital of France? Who owns copyright on the fact that E=mc^2? Who owns copyright on the fact that you change palette colours by outputting to port 248? Andrew PS. Those solicitors.... did they win all their cases? -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 20:28:50 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Any progress? Good Question:) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:17:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bd8a6d$37c704a0$4f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8d36d49b.356db3a5@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 317 Lines: 17 > > Bill, why not try reading what he wrote again... > > > > "I have not seen one that is usable in a way I want at a price > that I feel > > [is] reasonable" > > > > Simon > > > > > Then he hasn't looked at the SD system has he :) You're assuming that you know what he wants to do with it... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 20:28:50 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:17:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bd8a6d$38cbf180$4f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8a9a7792.356db3b4@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 382 Lines: 16 > > Well you don't have to buy one from Bob... > > > > Malcolm Mackenzie sells the 256K upgrades built by Mr A L Bennett. > > > > They are cheaper, and of course totally compatible! > > > > David > > > > BTW - Macks number is of course 0161 797 0651! > > > > I trust he has permission from West Coast to sell such a thing? And why the hell would he need it? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 23:24:29 1998 Message-Id: <199805282219.XAA14903@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:19:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sam-users archive In-reply-to: <199805272228.XAA15855@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 332 Lines: 11 > fine now. can i point out to mjc that winzip CAN and does reliably > handle .gz files, and is effectively free. WinZip is shareware, not free. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 23:37:22 1998 Message-Id: <199805282231.XAA16496@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:31:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: References: <1194ffb0.356dab86@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 611 Lines: 16 > In fact, whilst not quite so simple, almost the opposite is true. You would > be on legally shaky ground to claim copyright on something, unless you had > included the copyright symbol (or the word, copyright), the year, and your > name. Intellectual property is automatically assumed to be copyrighted, unless the author specifically gives permission/rights away. Hence FSF wanting disclaimers etc. Yes, I've checked... Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 23:52:03 1998 Message-Id: <199805282239.XAA06577@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:38:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <1194ffb0.356dab86@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1620 Lines: 39 > > i still think the world would benefit from having the tech manual and > > other such sam specs in the public domain. if we can't USE the tech > > manual, we'll just (not so blatantly) plagiarise it a bit, i suppose. > > How does that help? duh? imagine a world where intel, or zilog, say, did NOT release certain documents into the public domain. i'm not saying that, necessarily, the information is not copyrighted. It is, of course, perfectly possible to release copyrighted material into the public domain, thus ensuring the information is easily obtainable but impossible to change illegally or use in illegal or non-personal ways. what if, for example, the list of Z80 opcodes were not freely available to the public? is that not almost exactly the same situation we have here? > Everything is copyright unless the owner has clearly put something into the > public domain. if i were you, i would *really* check your facts before saying stuff, matey boy. > How could you put technical detail up without using the information that is > copyright? because, obviously, 'copyrighted' does not necessarily imply 'illegal to distribute'. see also: free software foundation. software written under the fsf is free to distribute, and modify, but the rights to any one version of the software remains with the author(s) of that version. the software is copyrighted to those authors (or to the fsf), but the software is also free to distribute. Zilog's Z80 opcode set is copyrighted, to ensure that no-one else can claim they invented it first, NOT to prevent people knowing about it!!! dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 23:52:04 1998 Message-Id: <199805282242.XAA06777@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:42:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: References: <1194ffb0.356dab86@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 810 Lines: 20 > >Everything is copyright unless the owner has clearly put something into the > >public domain. > > In fact, whilst not quite so simple, almost the opposite is true. You would > be on legally shaky ground to claim copyright on something, unless you had > included the copyright symbol (or the word, copyright), the year, and your > name. no, that's not quite it either. i think it's more like: as soon as a 'design' is created in 'material form' it is automatically copyrighted to the author/designer/creator of that 'design'. thus, certain things are non-copyrightable. the copyright symbol, etc, is just a nice touch, but it isn't legally necessary. the year, of course, is helpful to determine the CREATION date of the design, in case of dispute. (a DD/MM/YY copyright is indeed more useful) dave