From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 23:52:19 1998 Message-Id: <199805282244.XAA06873@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:44:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sam-users archive In-reply-to: <199805282219.XAA14903@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> References: <199805272228.XAA15855@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 438 Lines: 12 > > fine now. can i point out to mjc that winzip CAN and does reliably > > handle .gz files, and is effectively free. > > WinZip is shareware, not free. true enough. notice i said effectively free. mjc was wanting to view the mailing list archives. winzip has a 30-day trial period. presuambly he could look at all the archives he wanted to see within 30 days, and then stop using it. (or of course register it, or whatever) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu May 28 23:56:30 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:45:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <8a9a7792.356db3b4@aol.com> Message-Id: <19980528225221Z49320-11583+262@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 234 Lines: 15 > > BTW - Macks number is of course 0161 797 0651! > > > > I trust he has permission from West Coast to sell such a thing? > > Bill. Does he need it? It's not the same design ... It's Mr Bennett's i/f - of his own design. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 00:07:33 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199805282231.XAA16496@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> References: <1194ffb0.356dab86@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:01:02 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1474 Lines: 37 At 11:31 pm +0100 28/5/98, Paul Walker wrote: >> In fact, whilst not quite so simple, almost the opposite is true. You would >> be on legally shaky ground to claim copyright on something, unless you had >> included the copyright symbol (or the word, copyright), the year, and your >> name. > >Intellectual property is automatically assumed to be copyrighted, >unless the author specifically gives permission/rights away. Hence >FSF wanting disclaimers etc. > >Yes, I've checked... Well I said it wasn't quite so simple. To be absolutely certain of being able to identify yourself with the work, the FSF also suggest that: [[[begin quoted text]]] and each file should have at least the "copyright" line and a pointer to where the full notice is found. one line to give the library's name and an idea of what it does. Copyright (C) year name of author [[[end quoted text]]] It's always better to have the belt-and-braces attitude, just in case something goes wrong... Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 00:07:33 1998 Message-Id: <199805282259.XAA07560@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:58:58 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM References: <8a9a7792.356db3b4@aol.com> In-reply-to: <19980528225221Z49320-11583+262@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 180 Lines: 7 > It's not the same design ... It's Mr Bennett's i/f - of his own > design. .. wonder if you need permission to use the same signals/pinouts on the i/f connector? hmmm... dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 00:17:42 1998 From: Nev Young To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Any progress? Good Question:) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:11:37 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <3571c10d.1674217@post.demon.co.uk> References: <000301bd8a6d$37c704a0$4f38accf@default> In-Reply-To: <000301bd8a6d$37c704a0$4f38accf@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 534 Lines: 16 On Thu, 28 May 1998 15:17:12 -0400, "Simon Cooke" wrote: > > > Bill, why not try reading what he wrote again... > > > "I have not seen one that is usable in a way I want at a price > > that I feel > > > [is] reasonable" > > Then he hasn't looked at the SD system has he :) > You're assuming that you know what he wants to do with it... > I would just like to point out that I no longer have any connection with SD Software. -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 00:24:40 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Any progress? Good Question:) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:15:37 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bd8a8e$861a46a0$056faccf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <3571c10d.1674217@post.demon.co.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 137 Lines: 6 > I would just like to point out that I no longer have any connection > with SD Software. Nev? No longer any connection? Cripes. Simon From imc Fri May 29 01:16:51 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <199805282239.XAA06577@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from Dave Hooper at "May 28, 98 11:38:42 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 01:16:51 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 1405 Lines: 31 On Thu, 28 May 1998 23:38:42 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > duh? imagine a world where intel, or zilog, say, did NOT release > certain documents into the public domain. > i'm not saying that, necessarily, the information is not copyrighted. Information can not be copyrighted. Only the expression of that information can. If you express the same information in different words there is no breach of copyright. > It is, of course, perfectly possible to release copyrighted material > into the public domain, Now you are using confusing language. "Public Domain" has a very specific meaning, although lots of people seem to use it to mean other more vague things. > what if, for example, the list of Z80 opcodes were not freely > available to the public? is that not almost exactly the same > situation we have here? Just in the way of more fuel for the fire... Why is there no +3 technical manual? Because all the relevant information (I/O ports, system variables, ROM entry addresses, and so on) are listed in the manual which came *free* with the machine. This is as it should be. The Sam manual was pathetic in comparison, and charging for the technical manual (especially the poorly photocopied A4 thing that it turned out to be) was poor show right from the outset. I'd have been a bit miffed if I'd had to pay extra for the right to know how to program my video, now wouldn't I? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 02:51:06 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 02:36:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <8a9a7792.356db3b4@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896406110.2013378.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 502 Lines: 15 > > Well you don't have to buy one from Bob... > > Malcolm Mackenzie sells the 256K upgrades built by Mr A L Bennett. > > They are cheaper, and of course totally compatible! > > I trust he has permission from West Coast to sell such a thing? > > Bill. He doesn't need permission to sell a module that is compatable with the 256k upgrade, after all, its just something that plugs into an edge connector, it jsut happens to have the same pin-out as the Sam memory socket ! -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 02:51:15 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 02:36:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Holidays In-reply-to: <9805280620.AA18248@asmal.edh-net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896406110.2013374.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 585 Lines: 22 > > Just informing you all that I'm going away for 2 weeks to Costa del Sol. > I'll be back on monday the 15th June. I hope things has cooled down here > on the list till then. :/ > > So long. Take care. > > -Frode Have a good holiday dood :-) You'll probably not get this before you go, so, when you get back, just to give you a little bit to do, inbetween reading hundreds of crap boring arguments........... Uploaded into sam-users - Incomming are now Dave Whitmore & Friends issues no 10,11,12 & 13 of SCAC. for the /mags/SCAC dir. Mucho thasnks.. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 02:51:16 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 02:36:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Any progress? Good Question:) In-reply-to: <3432575a.356dab83@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896406108.2013375.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 583 Lines: 20 > > > A working hard drive system has been available for a long time you know. > > > > Yep, but as yet I have not seen one that is usable in a way i want at > > a price that i feel reasonable. > > Invest in a system from SD, it is well worth the money. > > > > -- > > Dean Liversidge > > Bill. Not in my view, thanks, but i'll wait untill i get around to making my own interface and DOS, then i'll make the design and code all PD or freeware so that other people can gain from my work. But when / if that will ever happed is a different story. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 02:51:16 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 02:36:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM (also, Formats for sale!) In-reply-to: <356C9CFA.DF3E8C4B@cableol.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896406108.2013373.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 276 Lines: 11 Dean Liversidge wrote: > > > But the cover doest just go to show how self - obsesed Bob is with his > > magazine. > > Actually, I think it usually does exactly that! Recent issues have had, Erm, sorry, slipped and unexpected 't' on the end of 'does'. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 05:08:03 1998 Message-Id: <199805290406.GAA01880@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: The SAM Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 06:08:32 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1006 Lines: 27 > Van: Dean Liversidge > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: The SAM > Datum: Friday, May 29, 1998 3:36 > > > > Well you don't have to buy one from Bob... > > > Malcolm Mackenzie sells the 256K upgrades built by Mr A L Bennett. > > > They are cheaper, and of course totally compatible! > > > > I trust he has permission from West Coast to sell such a thing? > > > > Bill. > Is this a idiot or what? Selling computer hardware does not require the permission of the person/company that owns the rights to the machine. That is unless it is a direct copy of the original hardware wich is usually not the case. And even if it is a direct copy, you still have to prove it is. Spare Car-parts, are you going to use the original ones or the imitations wich are usually as good as the original ones, but on average three times cheaper? -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 10:20:37 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <63fd10c4.356e7930@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:00:30 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id KAA22481 Status: RO Content-Length: 508 Lines: 19 In a message dated 27/05/98 14:58:26, you write: > >> But, you would agree, hardly a commercial product in the first place. > >Ok, how about http://www.gimp.org the GPL X11 equivalent of Photoshop, >go on dare you to argue that that's not sellable ... > >Lee. But Lee, if it is a ‘sellable’ product then you have to ask them "why don't you sell it?" Now they may have some reason, but any normal person/company would sell something, make a profit, and re-invest that in doing other things. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 10:20:38 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <4cc6d2ad.356e7931@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:00:32 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1158 Lines: 34 In a message dated 27/05/98 15:36:18, you write: >> I subcontracted all hardware to West Coast Computers. >> I subcontracted all Samco software to Revelation. >> >> Both contracts have a return option the details of which I will treat as >> confidential. >> >> Now. Any spacific questions? > >Yes. When was the last time either Chris White or Domark were paid anything >from the sales of Prince of Persia? > >Simon How should I Know, that is down to Revelation. But, AFAIK, there have only been 5 sales of the non-boxed version. To explain that, the supplies of the boxed version were purchased from the sales company appointed by SAMCo's liquidator, either by private treaty before the stuff went to auction or at the auction in Swansea itself. The royalties for these copies were, of course, the responsibility of SAMCo and/or its liquidator. When stock of PoP started to run low a couple of years ago Colin McD and I arranged, on behalf of Revelation, a gentlemens agreement with Chris White that a version of PoP could be produced in a normal case with insert. However, it seems that those that want it already have it. Hope This helps. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 10:33:09 1998 Message-ID: <009101bd8ae4$0482cee0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:27:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id KAA22724 Status: RO Content-Length: 736 Lines: 34 > >Ok, how about http://www.gimp.org the GPL X11 equivalent of Photoshop, > >go on dare you to argue that that's not sellable ... > > > >Lee. > > But Lee, if it is a ‘sellable’ product then you have to ask them "why don't > you sell it?" > > Now they may have some reason, but any normal person/company would sell > something, make a profit, and re-invest that in doing other things. > > -- > Bob. The Gimp is undoubtably a _superior_ product to Photoshop - now, why the paranthesis around sellable, Bob? I think your problem is that you fail to _understand_ the motivation behind GPL products. Unfortunately, you seem only to be able to think in terms of money and personal profit. How very sad, I pity you, Bob. DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 10:59:54 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <82a39b0d.356e84f8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:50:47 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1623 Lines: 48 In a message dated 28/05/98 18:45:01, you write: >> > i still think the world would benefit from having the tech manual and >> > other such sam specs in the public domain. if we can't USE the tech >> > manual, we'll just (not so blatantly) plagiarise it a bit, i suppose. >> >> How does that help? > > >BUY A CLUE. > >Tech specs freely available allow for a greater influx of people who want to >play around with a new architecture. In part you may be right, but I think the level of specs needed on-line is way below that of the tech manual. As I've said, I would be happy to see the SAM Basic manual OCRed and put up - I would even provide the web space if someone would handle the OCRing. My reasoning behind that is that non-SAM owners would need it for SIMCoupe which I think could/will do a lot to promote SAM Basic. > > >> > >> > are software / hardware *SPECIFICATIONS* actually copyrightable? i >> >> Everything is copyright unless the owner has clearly put >> something into the >> public domain. > >Actually, hardware specs come into a very interesting niche -- because I can >redraw them, and they're no longer copyright protected. If those specs >weren't patented, I can then use the design to sell SAMs myself. > >> > expect they are not, so there would be no problem in ripping out the >> > content of the tech manual and putting it up on the internet, without >> > actually copying any of the wording used in the manual. >> >> How could you put technical detail up without using the >> information that is >> copyright? > >You'd be surprised. Watch me. I will Simon, I will :) > >Simon -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 10:59:54 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <684eff68.356e84fa@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:50:49 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 400 Lines: 15 In a message dated 28/05/98 19:02:54, you write: > > >I trust he has permission from West Coast to sell such a thing? > >Bill. He does not, and as the design is copyright he should have permission if he is building other than for his own use. Anyway if it is the one that was shown to me at one of the NSS shows (it may not be) then it is a heap of crap - badly etched, badly soldered. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 10:59:55 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:50:45 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1702 Lines: 44 In a message dated 28/05/98 18:27:29, you write: [snip] >How does that help? >> >> are software / hardware *SPECIFICATIONS* actually copyrightable? i > >Everything is copyright unless the owner has clearly put something into the >public domain. And even if in the Public Domain there is still copyright - nobody can pass off anothers work as if it was their own, the original author's name should never be removed. > >> expect they are not, so there would be no problem in ripping out the >> content of the tech manual and putting it up on the internet, without >> actually copying any of the wording used in the manual. > >How could you put technical detail up without using the information that is >copyright? That is a difficult area. Many years ago I had a bit to do with the car manual people Haynes. When they did a new manual they always got hold of a copy of the official workshop manual and made bloody sure nothing in their version looked or read the same as the original - except facts and figures. Type preasures, oil details, things like that can be used - usually with a reference to where the details originated. Simon expressed, some weeks back, the intention of looking again at doing a web based tech manual. I told him that I would release the schematics from the paper tech manual for use provided that they were clearly labeled copyright Format Publications and that somewhere on the site there was our address and other contact details. However, when giving the non-facts-and-figures technical details of something the author would have to take care. In the main I still think a web based tech manual is a waste of time and effort. >> >> dave > >Bill. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 10:59:56 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <4cc6a9e8.356e84fa@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:50:48 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1617 Lines: 50 In a message dated 28/05/98 18:58:12, you write: >>Oh come on! Do you really expect any business to tell you how many of any >item >>they sell? > >Between July and December 1997, Future Publishing sold, on average, 40,180 >copies of MacFormat per month. >For example. That is their ABC figure, they subscribe to the ABC system to help promote themselves to advertisers. Try asking them how much they took in advertising revenue (which is their real sales item) and they will tell you to take a walk. > >>Lets say its lots, just for argument. Then someone turns round an takes part >>of the sales away by doing an alternative. Not good for your business. > >That's half the reason people are asking; if an online technical manual >would actually affect Bob's income in any way shape or form I don't think >people would bother to do it. > >>Lets say its only a handful. People become aware of how small a market is >and >>confidence goes out the window. > >What confidence? Frankly, anyone who doesn't know how small the sam's >market is by now, is living with his head in the clouds. > >>I think a few secrets are valid. > >The entire discussion hinges on Bob actually answering the question. He >doesn't need to give an exact figure, just a rough guide so people know >where they stand. But then, why break the habit of a lifetime? As I've said, how many of anything I sell is my business. > >>> It's not as if there are any competitors who would benefit from the >>> information. >> >>Says who, I could be about to launch my own version (ok, I'm not, but I >could >>be). > >Don't be silly. > >Andrew -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 10:59:57 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <88a35a67.356e84fe@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:50:53 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2005 Lines: 57 In a message dated 28/05/98 19:14:57, you write: >At 7:23 pm +0100 28/5/98, wrote: > >>Everything is copyright unless the owner has clearly put something into the >>public domain. > >Wrong again. > >In fact, whilst not quite so simple, almost the opposite is true. You would >be on legally shaky ground to claim copyright on something, unless you had >included the copyright symbol (or the word, copyright), the year, and your >name. Wrong Andrew, totally wrong. Those things help - but unless the work has been clearly placed into the public domain then you have to assume that someone owns the copyright. > >And there are some things you just can't copyright. It has for example been >established, through lengthy legal battles between Apple and Microsoft, >that you can't copyright "look and feel". Not quite, there are legal wins in both camps - and still a lot of court cases going on. > >And information is another interesting case. You can copyright a particular >collection of sentences, ie the way in which some information is expressed. >But you cannot copyright the information itself. Mmmm. That would be open to individual case argument. In other words "how close is it?" > >Who owns copyright on the fact that Paris is the capital of France? Nobody, because it is not a copyrightable thing. > Who owns copyright on the fact that E=mc^2? Nobody, because it is a law of nature - but the Einstein estate hold copywrite on the published works that tell the world about it and nobody in their right mind would claim that anyone other than Einstein came up with the equation. > Who owns copyright on the fact that you change palette colours by outputting to port 248? Again, nobody, unless the explination of how you do it used substantially the same wording as that in the tech manual. > >Andrew > >PS. Those solicitors.... did they win all their cases? In a couple that I know about - yes. While I'm rusty now I was hot on company law in the early 80s. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 10:59:58 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:50:46 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Any progress? Good Question:) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 397 Lines: 17 In a message dated 28/05/98 18:37:19, you write: >> Invest in a system from SD, it is well worth the money. > > >Bill, why not try reading what he wrote again... > >"I have not seen one that is usable in a way I want at a price that I feel >[is] reasonable" > >Simon So. a) what does he see as being wrong with the SD system, and b) why does he feel that the price is not reasonable? -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 10:59:59 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <3627a366.356e84ff@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:50:53 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 724 Lines: 21 In a message dated 29/05/98 01:52:45, you write: >> > Well you don't have to buy one from Bob... >> > Malcolm Mackenzie sells the 256K upgrades built by Mr A L Bennett. >> > They are cheaper, and of course totally compatible! >> >> I trust he has permission from West Coast to sell such a thing? >> >> Bill. > >He doesn't need permission to sell a module that is compatable with the 256k >upgrade, after all, its just something that plugs into an edge connector, it >jsut >happens to have the same pin-out as the Sam memory socket ! If it uses the same componants a schematic as the 256K (and I can't think how else he could do it) then yes he does unless he is building something just for his own use. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 11:00:01 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <7520c2e8.356e8578@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:52:55 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1108 Lines: 32 In a message dated 29/05/98 04:20:21, you write: > >> Van: Dean Liversidge >> Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no >> Onderwerp: Re: The SAM >> Datum: Friday, May 29, 1998 3:36 >> >> > > Well you don't have to buy one from Bob... >> > > Malcolm Mackenzie sells the 256K upgrades built by Mr A L Bennett. >> > > They are cheaper, and of course totally compatible! >> > >> > I trust he has permission from West Coast to sell such a thing? >> > >> > Bill. >> >Is this a idiot or what? > >Selling computer hardware does not require the permission of the >person/company that owns the rights to the machine. That is unless it is a >direct copy of the original hardware wich is usually not the case. And even >if it is a direct copy, you still have to prove it is. > >Spare Car-parts, are you going to use the original ones or the imitations >wich are usually as good as the original ones, but on average three times >cheaper? Car parts are a complicated affair - if you would like me to show you where your logic is wrong (in part at least) I would be happy to do so by email. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 11:06:40 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256613.00375346.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:05:33 +0100 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 242 Lines: 10 >> I subcontracted all hardware to West Coast Computers. >> I subcontracted all Samco software to Revelation. I wondered why my copy of Comet (of which I sent a cheque to Revelation) arrived in the same envelope as my Format.... Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 11:10:33 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256613.003784F1.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:10:13 +0100 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=fH542vHoG6Is2c8E8mndN64qlbccWbzwPIR2lG35ZYLRmF1hRAbD0vHo" Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1347 Lines: 47 --0__=fH542vHoG6Is2c8E8mndN64qlbccWbzwPIR2lG35ZYLRmF1hRAbD0vHo Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline >But Lee, if it is a --0__=fH542vHoG6Is2c8E8mndN64qlbccWbzwPIR2lG35ZYLRmF1hRAbD0vHo Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =E6sellable= --0__=fH542vHoG6Is2c8E8mndN64qlbccWbzwPIR2lG35ZYLRmF1hRAbD0vHo Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline --0__=fH542vHoG6Is2c8E8mndN64qlbccWbzwPIR2lG35ZYLRmF1hRAbD0vHo Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =C6 product then you have to ask them "why don't >you sell it?" > >Now they may have some reason, but any normal person/company would sel= l >something, make a profit, and re-invest that in doing other things. There is such a thing as programmer enjoyment, ya know? The challenge o= f acheiving something... The rush of high when you hear someone say "that's cool"... Beside, you get a bigger head when you know more peopl= e are using it now than when they would do if they had to pay for it. Justin. PS. Why the two black rectangles around "sellable"? not using windows specific codes are you???? Tsk. = --0__=fH542vHoG6Is2c8E8mndN64qlbccWbzwPIR2lG35ZYLRmF1hRAbD0vHo-- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 11:58:09 1998 X-Warning: Original message contained 8-bit characters, however during the SMTP transport session the receiving system was unable to announce capability of receiving 8-bit SMTP (RFC 1651-1653), and as this message does not have MIME headers (RFC 2045-2049) to enable encoding change, we had very little choices. X-Warning: We ASSUME it is less harmful to add the MIME headers, and convert the text to Quoted-Printable, than not to do so, and to strip the message to 7-bits.. (RFC 1428 Appendix A) X-Warning: We don't know what character set the user used, thus we had to write these MIME-headers with our local system default value. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <63fd10c4.356e7930@aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 29 May 1998 11:53:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: 's message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 05:00:30 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id LAA25198 Status: RO Content-Length: 737 Lines: 24 writes: > In a message dated 27/05/98 14:58:26, you write: > > >> But, you would agree, hardly a commercial product in the first place. > > > >Ok, how about http://www.gimp.org the GPL X11 equivalent of Photoshop, > >go on dare you to argue that that's not sellable ... > > But Lee, if it is a ‘sellable’ product then you have to ask them "why don't > you sell it?" Why don't you ask them ... > Now they may have some reason, but any normal person/company would sell > something, make a profit, and re-invest that in doing other things. Hehe, so I'll go tell all the FSF people that they're not normal just because they're not money-grabbing twonks ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 12:24:57 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <63fd10c4.356e7930@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:22:16 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id MAA25801 Status: RO Content-Length: 1280 Lines: 37 At 10:00 am +0100 29/5/98, wrote: >In a message dated 27/05/98 14:58:26, you write: > >> >>> But, you would agree, hardly a commercial product in the first place. >> >>Ok, how about http://www.gimp.org the GPL X11 equivalent of Photoshop, >>go on dare you to argue that that's not sellable ... >> >>Lee. > >But Lee, if it is a ‘sellable’ product then you have to ask them "why don't >you sell it?" > >Now they may have some reason, but any normal person/company would sell >something, make a profit, and re-invest that in doing other things. Go read http://www.gnu.org I mean that. Read it now. Then, you might perhaps begin to understand the attitude of those people who are in their business for reasons other than their own money-grabbing greed. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From imc Fri May 29 13:05:15 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:05:15 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <63fd10c4.356e7930@aol.com> from "BrenchleyR" at May 29, 98 05:00:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 314 Lines: 9 On Fri, 29 May 1998 05:00:30 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > But Lee, if it is a ‘sellable’ product then you have to ask them ^^^^^^^^^^ I've asked people not to use Windows-specific quote marks on this mailing list. If you are using Word then don't. Word is for paper documents not emails. imc From imc Fri May 29 13:06:16 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:06:16 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "BrenchleyR" at May 29, 98 05:50:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 247 Lines: 7 On Fri, 29 May 1998 05:50:45 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > In the main I still think a web based tech > manual is a waste of time and effort. Aha, so there *isn't* much call for the technical manual after all. imc From imc Fri May 29 13:11:40 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:11:40 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <684eff68.356e84fa@aol.com> from "BrenchleyR" at May 29, 98 05:50:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 730 Lines: 15 On Fri, 29 May 1998 05:50:49 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > >I trust he has permission from West Coast to sell such a thing? > He does not, and as the design is copyright he should have permission if he is > building other than for his own use. You can't copyright how the components are connected together - anyone can legally take your circuit diagram (as long as they didn't physically copy it, of course) and build circuits from it, for whatever purpose they like. The only part of the design that you can copyright is what it looks like (that is, the style of the packaging, and perhaps the layout of the PCB). The only way you can protect the electronics is to patent them (or operate a policy of keeping trade secrets). imc From imc Fri May 29 13:35:46 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:35:46 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <80256613.003784F1.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at May 29, 98 11:10:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 877 Lines: 33 Er, what?! imc On Fri, 29 May 1998 11:10:13 +0100, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk said: > --0__=fH542vHoG6Is2c8E8mndN64qlbccWbzwPIR2lG35ZYLRmF1hRAbD0vHo > Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > > >But Lee, if it is a > > --0__=fH542vHoG6Is2c8E8mndN64qlbccWbzwPIR2lG35ZYLRmF1hRAbD0vHo > Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable > > > =E6sellable= > > --0__=fH542vHoG6Is2c8E8mndN64qlbccWbzwPIR2lG35ZYLRmF1hRAbD0vHo > Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > > > --0__=fH542vHoG6Is2c8E8mndN64qlbccWbzwPIR2lG35ZYLRmF1hRAbD0vHo > Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable > > > =C6 product then you have to ask them "why > don't > >you sell it?" From imc Fri May 29 13:40:27 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:40:27 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Collier" at May 28, 98 08:11:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 559 Lines: 14 On Thu, 28 May 1998 20:11:40 +0100, Andrew Collier said: > At 7:23 pm +0100 28/5/98, wrote: > >Everything is copyright unless the owner has clearly put something into the > >public domain. > Wrong again. No, it's right actually. Copyright subsists in all material works of art, design and literature whether or not they have copyright notices on them. Incidentally, current English bank notes all have copyright notices on them. It isn't that the old ones weren't copyright, but the notice was added just to make things clear. imc From imc Fri May 29 13:51:04 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:51:04 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "BillRitman" at May 28, 98 02:23:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 608 Lines: 17 On Thu, 28 May 1998 14:23:00 EDT, BillRitman said: > Oh come on! Do you really expect any business to tell you how many of any item > they sell? Yes. HTH HAND. > Lets say its lots, just for argument. Then someone turns round an takes part > of the sales away by doing an alternative. Not good for your business. > Lets say its only a handful. People become aware of how small a market is and > confidence goes out the window. Don't be rediculous. Is any member of this list in business to take sales away from Bob? Is any member of this list under any illusion as to how small the Sam market is? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 15:38:42 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:53 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 494 Lines: 17 In a message dated 29/05/98 10:54:50, you write: >. > >Hehe, so I'll go tell all the FSF people that they're not normal just >because they're not money-grabbing twonks ... > >Lee. Strange as it may seem Lee, but if people do not make money they starve. Ok, some can work in protected enviroments where they can do work like that and not need to earn money from it (in education, government departments and the like). But, sad though it is, most people have to make money to live. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 15:38:42 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <79193651.356ec664@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:55 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id PAA00322 Status: RO Content-Length: 411 Lines: 17 In a message dated 29/05/98 12:06:24, you write: >On Fri, 29 May 1998 05:00:30 EDT, BrenchleyR said: >> But Lee, if it is a ‘sellable’ product then you have to ask them > ^^^^^^^^^^ > >I've asked people not to use Windows-specific quote marks on this mailing >list. If you are using Word then don't. Word is for paper documents not >emails. > >imc It is alright at my end. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 15:38:43 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <3510fff5.356ec666@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:57 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1178 Lines: 28 In a message dated 29/05/98 12:14:11, you write: >On Fri, 29 May 1998 05:50:49 EDT, BrenchleyR said: >> >I trust he has permission from West Coast to sell such a thing? > >> He does not, and as the design is copyright he should have permission if he >is >> building other than for his own use. > >You can't copyright how the components are connected together - anyone can >legally take your circuit diagram (as long as they didn't physically >copy it, of course) and build circuits from it, for whatever purpose >they like. The only part of the design that you can copyright is what >it looks like (that is, the style of the packaging, and perhaps the >layout of the PCB). The only way you can protect the electronics is >to patent them (or operate a policy of keeping trade secrets). > >imc You may or may not be right, until I had one in front of me it would be difficult to say. The copyright exists in the design. How much different he has been able to make it I'm not aware, but if his design is essentially the same as that in the tech manual then it could be open to action. However, I reserve final comments until I know a little more about the design. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 15:38:44 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <1dffb1d1.356ec665@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:56 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 773 Lines: 22 In a message dated 29/05/98 12:07:52, you write: >On Fri, 29 May 1998 05:50:45 EDT, BrenchleyR said: >> In the main I still think a web based >tech >> manual is a waste of time and effort. > >Aha, so there *isn't* much call for the technical manual after all. > >imc That is not what I said. The technical manual exists in printed for and is available to anyone who wants to buy a copy. I have no intention of putting a sellable item on the WWW for people to get free - I'm not going to do something that reduces my already small income. I feel that any effort required to produce any other form of tech manual for the WWW would be a waste of time and effort which would be better spent of doing something to advance SAM. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 15:38:45 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:54 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 350 Lines: 15 In a message dated 29/05/98 11:23:05, you write: >. > >Then, you might perhaps begin to understand the attitude of those people >who are in their business for reasons other than their own money-grabbing >greed. > >Andrew Andrew, you cannot be 'in business' unless you charge for things. People who give things away are no 'in business' -- Bob. From imc Fri May 29 15:50:02 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:50:02 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <79193651.356ec664@aol.com> from "BrenchleyR" at May 29, 98 10:29:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 375 Lines: 11 On Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:55 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > >I've asked people not to use Windows-specific quote marks on this mailing > >list. If you are using Word then don't. Word is for paper documents not > >emails. > It is alright at my end. I don't give a damn what it looks like at your end. They are Windows-specific characters and they don't belong on the net. imc From imc Fri May 29 15:51:47 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:51:47 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <3510fff5.356ec666@aol.com> from "BrenchleyR" at May 29, 98 10:29:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 327 Lines: 8 On Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:57 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > You may or may not be right, until I had one in front of me it would be > difficult to say. The copyright exists in the design. No. You didn't read what I wrote, did you? You can copyright the artistic design but it is impossible to copyright the technical design. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 16:03:45 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 29 May 1998 15:55:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: 's message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:54 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 645 Lines: 21 writes: > In a message dated 29/05/98 11:23:05, you write: > > >Then, you might perhaps begin to understand the attitude of those > >people who are in their business for reasons other than their own > >money-grabbing greed. > > Andrew, you cannot be 'in business' unless you charge for > things. People who give things away are no 'in business' In the business of providing services/programs for others not necessarily making money out of it ... OK so grammatically speaking 'business' probably does imply commerciality but you should have known what he meant ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 16:22:21 1998 Message-ID: <01be01bd8b12$ebd1a860$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: The SAM Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:02:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 566 Lines: 16 > On Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:57 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > > You may or may not be right, until I had one in front of me it would be > > difficult to say. The copyright exists in the design. > > No. You didn't read what I wrote, did you? You can copyright the > artistic design but it is impossible to copyright the technical design. > > imc Surely, Bob, he doesn't need to show you the design, because it's different, and therefore copyrighted... so he doesn't have to. Sound silly? You're absolutely right. Now where could we have heard that one before?? DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 16:22:21 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 29 May 1998 16:06:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: 's message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:53 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1582 Lines: 37 writes: > In a message dated 29/05/98 10:54:50, you write: > > >Hehe, so I'll go tell all the FSF people that they're not normal just > >because they're not money-grabbing twonks ... > > > >Lee. > > Strange as it may seem Lee, but if people do not make money they starve. I didn't say that they didn't make money, but they don't mind doing some things purely for the benefit of others... > Ok, some can work in protected enviroments where they can do work like that > and not need to earn money from it (in education, government departments and > the like). But, sad though it is, most people have to make money to live. Yeah, but the Free software and earning money are not mutually exclusive was the point that I was making. You claimed that programs were only released as free software when they were not commercially viable, which we've given examples to prove otherwise ... The Gimp could definitely be sellable, the commercial success of Photoshop has proved that. It's not a question of working in a 'protected' environment. I for example never received any payment for any of the coding that I did on the SAM, I did it because I enjoyed doing it _in my spare time_ and for the _love of coding_. Many other people do the same when they have the time. Because free software authors are not under contract they can do what work they want when they want, so it's a hobby. Just because a large useful program comes out of it doesn't mean that it's not possible to do it for free as a hobby etc. Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 16:22:21 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:11:13 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1234 Lines: 35 At 3:29 pm +0100 29/5/98, wrote: >In a message dated 29/05/98 11:23:05, you write: > >>. >> >>Then, you might perhaps begin to understand the attitude of those people >>who are in their business for reasons other than their own money-grabbing >>greed. >> >>Andrew > >Andrew, you cannot be 'in business' unless you charge for things. People who >give things away are no 'in business' Stop playing with words Bob. Have you read that page yet? Because you should bloody well shut up until you have. I'm sick and tired of arguing with someone who's so blatantly not interested in the other people's point of view. http://www.gnu.org Read it. And get out of my inbox until you know what you're talking about. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 16:22:22 1998 X-Warning: Original message contained 8-bit characters, however during the SMTP transport session the receiving system was unable to announce capability of receiving 8-bit SMTP (RFC 1651-1653), and as this message does not have MIME headers (RFC 2045-2049) to enable encoding change, we had very little choices. X-Warning: We ASSUME it is less harmful to add the MIME headers, and convert the text to Quoted-Printable, than not to do so, and to strip the message to 7-bits.. (RFC 1428 Appendix A) X-Warning: We don't know what character set the user used, thus we had to write these MIME-headers with our local system default value. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <79193651.356ec664@aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 29 May 1998 16:07:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: 's message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:55 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id QAA01889 Status: RO Content-Length: 675 Lines: 22 writes: > In a message dated 29/05/98 12:06:24, you write: > > >On Fri, 29 May 1998 05:00:30 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > >> But Lee, if it is a ‘sellable’ product then you have to ask them > > > >I've asked people not to use Windows-specific quote marks on this mailing > >list. If you are using Word then don't. Word is for paper documents not > >emails. > > It is alright at my end. That's irrelevant, you're sending mail to people with no knowledge of what platform they are using, so you should not include platform-independent content in your mails regardless of how it looks at your end ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 16:22:22 1998 Message-ID: <01dd01bd8b14$6a7e22a0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:13:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 446 Lines: 21 > > writes: > >> It is alright at my end. > > > >That's irrelevant, you're sending mail to people with no knowledge of > >what platform they are using, so you should not include > >platform-independent content in your mails regardless of how it looks at > >your end ... > > > >Lee. > >-- Of course, what with all the rubbish he's spewing forth at the moment, who'll actually notice if its no longer readable? :) DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 16:31:26 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: 's message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:54 EDT" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:28:43 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1864 Lines: 49 At 3:55 pm +0100 29/5/98, The Giggler wrote: > writes: >> >Then, you might perhaps begin to understand the attitude of those >> >people who are in their business for reasons other than their own >> >money-grabbing greed. >> >> Andrew, you cannot be 'in business' unless you charge for >> things. People who give things away are no 'in business' > >In the business of providing services/programs for others not >necessarily making money out of it ... > >OK so grammatically speaking 'business' probably does imply >commerciality but you should have known what he meant ... That would imply he was trying to take the conversation somewhere useful - rather than his current plan of scoring points at whatever opportunity. In fact, in my dictionary, business is on its EIGHTH definition before it mentions anything to do with money: business. n. 1 one's regular occupation 2 a thing that is one's concern 3a a task or duty 3b a reason for coming 4 serious work or activity 5 (derog) an affair, a matter 6 a thing or series of things needing to be dealt with 7 trade, relations; dealings 8 a commercial house or firm 9 (theatr) action on stage 10 a difficult matter Since it should not need to be my business to continually correct Bob's grammatical misunderstandings, let's put the whole business behind us and get back to business. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 18:46:44 1998 From: Maria Rookyard To: sam-users Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:15:07 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 526 Lines: 25 > On Tue, 26 May 1998 09:22:53 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > > Let us put it this way, would you go showing your pay-slip to anyone who asks? > > Yes, if it were pertinent to the discussion. > Friendly word of warning - mainly to those yet to enter the big wide world of work (NOT intended as a dig at anyone) I've seen lots of people in the "real world" make themselves extremely unpopular by waving their pay slips around - don't fall into this trap if you want to stay friends with your workmates :) hth Maria. x From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 18:46:45 1998 From: Maria Rookyard To: sam-users Subject: Re: I'd tried not to get involved in this one, but... Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:05:31 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 724 Lines: 40 > >Yes, but not for me personally, this mornings mail count > > read as follows > >... > >You've got new mail from ... > >[snipped] > > 1, personal messages. > >[snipped] > > 39, mailing-list messages. > > > >and I know a lot of people who have similar ratios. > I doubt that one in one hundred would have a ratio like that > > > >Lee. > > -- > Bob I've been away from Tuesday morning til today. On returning I downloaded a grand total of 158 messages; all bar 32 of them were from the SAM group - although to be fair, I did tell most of the people who send personal stuff to leave it till weekend :) Memo to myself: For god's sake - *remember to unsubscribe before going away for a week* ;) Maria. . From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 18:50:14 1998 Message-Id: <199805291748.SAA03494@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:48:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 867 Lines: 24 > >Hehe, so I'll go tell all the FSF people that they're not normal just > >because they're not money-grabbing twonks ... > Strange as it may seem Lee, but if people do not make money they starve. > Sad though it is, most people have to make money to live. > Bob. what? and like releasing software via the fsf and making money are mutually exclusive or something? weirdo. the situation is probably **MUCH** more akin to people (with their jobs and their hourly rates or saleries), with a bit of spare time, writing software for fun, for personal enlightenment, for whatever reasons. they still make money (thru their jobs) and, hence, do not starve. they also, presumably, make enough money to live. (or else they wouldn't be 'alive' enough to write software in their spare time) bob, please read the above at least two more times until you get it. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 18:51:37 1998 Message-Id: <199805291749.SAA03567@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:49:03 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805291450.OAA19795@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> References: <79193651.356ec664@aol.com> from "BrenchleyR" at May 29, 98 10:29:55 am X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 526 Lines: 14 > > >I've asked people not to use Windows-specific quote marks on this mailing > > >list. If you are using Word then don't. Word is for paper documents not > > >emails. > > > It is alright at my end. > > I don't give a damn what it looks like at your end. They are Windows-specific > characters and they don't belong on the net. and not only that, but my email software kindly split that email into four separate messages, the first three of which contained only half a word each. and that didn't make me happy. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 19:10:52 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 29 May 1998 18:59:58 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Maria Rookyard"'s message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 18:15:07 +0100" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 654 Lines: 19 "Maria Rookyard" writes: > Friendly word of warning - mainly to those yet to enter the big wide world > of work (NOT intended as a dig at anyone) Yeah, I'm a student but I've also worked ;) > I've seen lots of people in the "real world" make themselves extremely > unpopular by waving their pay slips around True, I s'pose. I've never waved mine around, but I did show it to a couple of people who asked and while it didn't make me unpopular I think it got a few people upset at the company since I was being paid more (unfairly in their eyes, in mine, deservedly ...). Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 19:10:53 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:01:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd8b2b$c84bb020$1f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3510fff5.356ec666@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1320 Lines: 32 > You may or may not be right, until I had one in front of me it would be > difficult to say. The copyright exists in the design. How much > different he > has been able to make it I'm not aware, but if his design is > essentially the > same as that in the tech manual then it could be open to action. > > However, I reserve final comments until I know a little more > about the design. Sorry, but this is reaching the point where it's on a par with the LZW compression algorithm patent thing for me. (I created my own LZW compression method, before I saw the LZW implementation. However, I'd have to pay Unisys if I wanted to use it. I personally think it's dead wrong to patent mathematical algorithms, because if one person can come up with it, anyone else can come up with it independently. That's the whole point of mathematics -- reproducibility along a logical path). How many ways are there to put two 256kx4 100ns DRAM chips on a piece of circuit board? With 4.7nF tantalums to soak up the spikes off the DRAMs, and 10uF bypass electrolytics? Give you a clue: There's not many ways you can redesign that. It's so simple a piece of design work that there's no way copyright on it would stand up in court. I could knock up the same PCB in 5 minutes, or less if I had my PCB-CAD package with me here. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 19:10:53 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:01:22 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd8b2b$ca0016e0$1f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3627a366.356e84ff@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 607 Lines: 20 > >He doesn't need permission to sell a module that is compatable > with the 256k > >upgrade, after all, its just something that plugs into an edge > connector, it > >jsut > >happens to have the same pin-out as the Sam memory socket ! > > If it uses the same componants a schematic as the 256K (and I > can't think how > else he could do it) then yes he does unless he is building > something just for > his own use. Bob, a schematic is a *lot* different to a PCB layout GERBER plot file or acetate sheet. A schematic tells you what pieces you need. A PCB layout file tells you how you wire it up. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 19:10:55 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Any progress? Good Question:) Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:01:24 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bd8b2b$cb144600$1f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 330 Lines: 15 > >Bill, why not try reading what he wrote again... > > > >"I have not seen one that is usable in a way I want at a price > that I feel > >[is] reasonable" > > > >Simon > > So. a) what does he see as being wrong with the SD system, and b) > why does he > feel that the price is not reasonable? You'd have to ask him... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 19:10:55 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:01:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bd8b2b$cc319ce0$1f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 812 Lines: 25 > Simon expressed, some weeks back, the intention of looking again > at doing a > web based tech manual. I told him that I would release the > schematics from the > paper tech manual for use provided that they were clearly labeled > copyright > Format Publications and that somewhere on the site there was our > address and > other contact details. I'm not 100% sure that I'll use them actually -- it's probably going to be easier for me to redraw them from scratch, rather than trace them using the scanner :( > However, when giving the non-facts-and-figures technical details > of something > the author would have to take care. In the main I still think a > web based tech > manual is a waste of time and effort. I dunno... I've seen 10 requests for a larger version of the one that was up on NVG. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 19:10:56 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:01:27 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bd8b2b$cd137160$1f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4cc6d2ad.356e7931@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 714 Lines: 19 > To explain that, the supplies of the boxed version were purchased from the > sales company appointed by SAMCo's liquidator, either by private > treaty before > the stuff went to auction or at the auction in Swansea itself. > The royalties > for these copies were, of course, the responsibility of SAMCo and/or its > liquidator. > > When stock of PoP started to run low a couple of years ago Colin McD and I > arranged, on behalf of Revelation, a gentlemens agreement with Chris White > that a version of PoP could be produced in a normal case with insert. > However, it seems that those that want it already have it. Oh Great! That means we can stick as many copies of it on the web as we like!!!!! :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 19:10:57 1998 Message-Id: <199805291807.TAA05103@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:06:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: "Maria Rookyard"'s message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 18:15:07 +0100" In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 614 Lines: 12 > True, I s'pose. I've never waved mine around, but I did show it to a > couple of people who asked and while it didn't make me unpopular I think > it got a few people upset at the company since I was being paid more > (unfairly in their eyes, in mine, deservedly ...). i've only waved mine around in jobs where i knew i was being paid less than everyone else in the world (shortly after leaving said jobs) and also last summer where i earned real amounts of money (and i waved them round at all the other summer students working at the same company, each earning, predictably enough, exactly the same) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 19:21:21 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 18:12:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <000301bd8b2b$cc319ce0$1f38accf@default> References: Message-Id: <19980529181928Z49237-11583+506@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 329 Lines: 10 > I dunno... I've seen 10 requests for a larger version of the one that was up > on NVG. > > Simon Make that 11 requests... /-----------------------------------------------/ \ If you're really desperate... take a look at \ / My web site at www.persona.clara.net/wibble/ / \________________________________________________\ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 20:27:42 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:20:55 GMT Message-ID: <3570fe02.26305150@mail.enterprise.net> References: <79193651.356ec664@aol.com> <199805291749.SAA03567@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <199805291749.SAA03567@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 804 Lines: 22 On Fri, 29 May 1998 18:49:03 +0000, Dave Hooper wrote: >> >> I don't give a damn what it looks like at your end. They are Windows-specific >> characters and they don't belong on the net. > >and not only that, but my email software kindly split that email into >four separate messages, the first three of which contained only half >a word each. and that didn't make me happy. Just out of interest - so I'll know (I'm using windowz). Which windows keys/characters in particular aren't allowed? Hey, it could be a lot worse if people used email the way MS sets the default in their (can't remember its name coz its crap) software. I mean, who the hell wants to use pretty colours and put pictures in their email! :-) Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 20:27:43 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:20:56 GMT Message-ID: <3572020a.27337469@mail.enterprise.net> References: <4cc6d2ad.356e7931@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <4cc6d2ad.356e7931@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1672 Lines: 44 On Fri, 29 May 1998 05:00:32 EDT, wrote: >When stock of PoP started to run low a couple of years ago Colin McD and I >arranged, on behalf of Revelation, a gentlemens agreement with Chris White >that a version of PoP could be produced in a normal case with insert. >However, it seems that those that want it already have it. I'd say that it appears that this particular game is no longer sellable then. Is the game still under any kind of contract with Revelation (or anyone else) ? If so, when does it run out? I get this funny picture of a number of hungry individuals clinging on to old and obsolete stuff, with ideas that someday... someday... a sale may occur. :-) I'm not saying that games like PoP were anything but brilliant when they first came out, but so were the old speccy greats - that are now (except for a small minority) freely available on the net. I suspect the only valid reason for subscribing to a magazine related to SAM is to delude ones self into believing that all is well. I remember overhearing Carol Brooksbank at one of the Glos shows, and she was describing the SAM market as a 'cottage industry'; she seemed to like saying that. The trouble is that this 'cottage' thing is a strictly controlled entity, with a few dictators who hate any kind of competition. I say that anyone who is talented at coding SAM should forget it and move onto pastures new. Why bother doing anything at all in this stifling atmosphere? Can anyone (apart from the vultures) give a good reason why any of us should work to advance SAMs cause anymore? Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 20:39:56 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <79193651.356ec664@aol.com> <199805291749.SAA03567@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> <3570fe02.26305150@mail.enterprise.net> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 29 May 1998 20:35:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: davewhitmore@enterprise.net's message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 19:20:55 GMT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 617 Lines: 24 davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) writes: > Just out of interest - so I'll know (I'm using windowz). Which windows > keys/characters in particular aren't allowed? None, everything should be fine as long as you don't use mail programs which insert silly codes in them (I suspect Bob's post had the so called intelligent quotes in ie the ones that go ` and then ' but the double quote one's ... Bob: Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This is non-portable-ish ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yours: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is fine :) Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 21:07:35 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:01:48 GMT Message-ID: <35751423.31971377@mail.enterprise.net> References: <000401bd8b2b$cd137160$1f38accf@default> In-Reply-To: <000401bd8b2b$cd137160$1f38accf@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 672 Lines: 30 On Fri, 29 May 1998 14:01:27 -0400, Simon Cooke wrote: >> When stock of PoP started to run low a couple of years ago Colin McD and I >> arranged, on behalf of Revelation, a gentlemens agreement with Chris White >> that a version of PoP could be produced in a normal case with insert. >> However, it seems that those that want it already have it. > > >Oh Great! > >That means we can stick as many copies of it on the web as we like!!!!! :) > >Simon Has anyone fixed the cracked version of PoP so that it can be used with SIM Coupe yet? That would be very nice. :-) Anarchyyyyyyy! Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 21:30:57 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:18:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <35751423.31971377@mail.enterprise.net> References: <000401bd8b2b$cd137160$1f38accf@default> Message-Id: <19980529202510Z49270-11583+535@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 682 Lines: 20 > > >> When stock of PoP started to run low a couple of years ago Colin McD and I > >> arranged, on behalf of Revelation, a gentlemens agreement with Chris White > >> that a version of PoP could be produced in a normal case with insert. > >> However, it seems that those that want it already have it. > > > > > >Oh Great! > > > >That means we can stick as many copies of it on the web as we like!!!!! :) > > > >Simon > > Has anyone fixed the cracked version of PoP so that it can be used > with SIM Coupe yet? That would be very nice. :-) > Yes. But I think you'll find it belongs to someone. And doing that sort of thing is called piracy. It's bloody stupid - not very nice. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 21:30:57 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:15:49 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd8b3e$9251a7a0$1f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <3570fe02.26305150@mail.enterprise.net> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 560 Lines: 14 > Just out of interest - so I'll know (I'm using windowz). Which windows > keys/characters in particular aren't allowed? > > Hey, it could be a lot worse if people used email the way MS sets the > default in their (can't remember its name coz its crap) software. I > mean, who the hell wants to use pretty colours and put pictures in > their email! :-) As long as you don't let Microsoft Word be your email editor, and you use Outlook 98, it's quite admirable at handling emails. I have mine set up to standard internet format (or as near as dammit). Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 21:30:57 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:18:09 GMT Message-ID: <35761590.32335560@mail.enterprise.net> References: <79193651.356ec664@aol.com> <199805291749.SAA03567@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> <3570fe02.26305150@mail.enterprise.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 862 Lines: 29 On 29 May 1998 20:35:51 +0100, The Giggler wrote: >davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) writes: > > >> Just out of interest - so I'll know (I'm using windowz). Which windows >> keys/characters in particular aren't allowed? > >None, everything should be fine as long as you don't use mail programs >which insert silly codes in them (I suspect Bob's post had the so called >intelligent quotes in ie the ones that go ` and then ' but the double >quote one's ... Ah right, thanks. Altogether now.... 'Bob's a silly twonk!' Hey, Fat Controller - No more illegal characters. Do you hear! :-) 'Cains Formidable Ale' fresh from Asda's shelves. Tastes like piss at first, but it's brewed in Liverpool... So that's why they're such argumentative aggresive gits... what a revelation. Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 21:30:59 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:18:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <684eff68.356e84fa@aol.com> Message-Id: <19980529202510Z49248-11583+534@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 670 Lines: 18 > From: > He does not, and as the design is copyright he should have permission if he is > building other than for his own use. Anyway if it is the one that was shown to > me at one of the NSS shows (it may not be) then it is a heap of crap - badly > etched, badly soldered. > > -- > Bob. 1) This design was shown to you about 3 years ago, and was the first version of the upgrade. Obviously it has been refined since. 2) Even in this "state" - it still worked fine, did it not? 3) And it proves that u do not have to spend 25 pounds + on an upgrade, when Mr Bennett supplies his for a mere 15 quid. What makes more sense to you? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 21:30:59 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:18:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <3572020a.27337469@mail.enterprise.net> References: <4cc6d2ad.356e7931@aol.com> Message-Id: <19980529202525Z49268-11583+536@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1387 Lines: 43 > From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. > Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:20:56 GMT > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Fri, 29 May 98 21:16:46 BST > On Fri, 29 May 1998 05:00:32 EDT, wrote: > > > >When stock of PoP started to run low a couple of years ago Colin McD and I > >arranged, on behalf of Revelation, a gentlemens agreement with Chris White > >that a version of PoP could be produced in a normal case with insert. > >However, it seems that those that want it already have it. > > I'd say that it appears that this particular game is no longer > sellable then. No. I think it's just that people do not want to buy software from Revelation Mark 2. > Is the game still under any kind of contract with Revelation (or > anyone else) ? With someone else. > If so, when does it run out? It does not for quite some time. > I say that anyone who is talented at coding SAM should forget it and > move onto pastures new. Why bother doing anything at all in this > stifling atmosphere? Why bother ever keeping your computer when MGT went down? Why bother keeping your Amiga when Commodore went down? > Can anyone (apart from the vultures) give a good reason why any of us > should work to advance SAMs cause anymore? Why not. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 21:47:59 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:36:02 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bd8b41$65575800$1f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <19980529202510Z49270-11583+535@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 799 Lines: 26 > > >> When stock of PoP started to run low a couple of years ago > Colin McD and I > > >> arranged, on behalf of Revelation, a gentlemens agreement > with Chris White > > >> that a version of PoP could be produced in a normal case with insert. > > >> However, it seems that those that want it already have it. > > > > > > > > >Oh Great! > > > > > >That means we can stick as many copies of it on the web as we > like!!!!! :) > > > > > >Simon > > > > Has anyone fixed the cracked version of PoP so that it can be used > > with SIM Coupe yet? That would be very nice. :-) > > > Yes. But I think you'll find it belongs to someone. And doing that > sort of thing is called piracy. > > It's bloody stupid - not very nice. My point though, is that don't Broderbund have to get some money for it? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 22:00:39 1998 Message-Id: <199805292054.VAA27533@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:54:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sam-users archive In-reply-to: <199805282244.XAA06873@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <199805282219.XAA14903@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 511 Lines: 14 > > WinZip is shareware, not free. > true enough. notice i said effectively free. mjc was wanting to view > the mailing list archives. winzip has a 30-day trial period. > presuambly he could look at all the archives he wanted to see within Yep, but some people get the wrong idea from phrases like "effectively free" :-) Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 22:00:40 1998 Message-Id: <199805292057.VAA27816@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:57:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 715 Lines: 18 > And even if in the Public Domain there is still copyright - nobody can pass > off anothers work as if it was their own, the original author's name should > never be removed. Once something's in the public domain, you lose all rights to it. You don't even retain copyright. > However, when giving the non-facts-and-figures technical details of something > the author would have to take care. In the main I still think a web based tech > manual is a waste of time and effort. You could always lower the price of the paper one? Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 23:33:52 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:45 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 978 Lines: 26 In a message dated 29/05/98 14:54:48, you write: >o > >On Fri, 29 May 1998 10:29:57 EDT, BrenchleyR said: >> You may or may not be right, until I had one in front of me it would be >> difficult to say. The copyright exists in the design. > >No. You didn't read what I wrote, did you? You can copyright the >artistic design but it is impossible to copyright the technical design. > >imc Sorry Ian, but that is untrue. To have FULL protection on a design you need a patent, but a certain degree of protection is afforded by copyrighting the design. Someone can take your design and re-design it to be different while still doing the same job, but the closeness or otherwise to the original could lead to an infringement of copyright. To protect fully (and yes I have had reason to go down this route with a friend in the last two years) you need to take out a patent, register your design and copyright your design - in English law that is three different steps. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 23:33:52 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <7c7eb71f.356f3628@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:47 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 663 Lines: 22 In a message dated 29/05/98 15:21:40, you write: >>Andrew, you cannot be 'in business' unless you charge for things. People who >>give things away are no 'in business' > >Stop playing with words Bob. > >Have you read that page yet? Because you should bloody well shut up until >you have. I'm sick and tired of arguing with someone who's so blatantly not >interested in the other people's point of view. > >http://www.gnu.org > >Read it. And get out of my inbox until you know what you're talking about. > >Andrew Grow up. If you cant understand a common concept like 'business' then it is you that do not know what you are talking about (yet again). -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 23:33:54 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <9d9c039f.356f3627@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:46 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id XAA09207 Status: RO Content-Length: 796 Lines: 28 In a message dated 29/05/98 15:21:36, you write: > writes: > >> In a message dated 29/05/98 12:06:24, you write: >> >> >On Fri, 29 May 1998 05:00:30 EDT, BrenchleyR said: >> >> But Lee, if it is a ‘sellable’ product then you have to ask them >> > >> >I've asked people not to use Windows-specific quote marks on this mailing >> >list. If you are using Word then don't. Word is for paper documents not >> >emails. >> >> It is alright at my end. > >That's irrelevant, you're sending mail to people with no knowledge of >what platform they are using, so you should not include >platform-independent content in your mails regardless of how it looks at >your end ... > >Lee. Some people are just born to argue. Look - it was (is, I've checked the file) ok here. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 23:33:54 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <13d84e45.356f362d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:52 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 976 Lines: 36 In a message dated 29/05/98 20:21:16, you write: >On 29 May 1998 20:35:51 +0100, The Giggler wrote: > > >>davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) writes: >> >> >>> Just out of interest - so I'll know (I'm using windowz). Which windows >>> keys/characters in particular aren't allowed? >> >>None, everything should be fine as long as you don't use mail programs >>which insert silly codes in them (I suspect Bob's post had the so called >>intelligent quotes in ie the ones that go ` and then ' but the double >>quote one's ... > >Ah right, thanks. Altogether now.... 'Bob's a silly twonk!' > >Hey, Fat Controller - No more illegal characters. Do you hear! > >:-) > >'Cains Formidable Ale' fresh from Asda's shelves. Tastes like piss at >first, but it's brewed in Liverpool... So that's why they're such >argumentative aggresive gits... what a revelation. > > >Bye, > _ > |_)ave > (/\)hitmore Dave, is it my imagination, or have you become a right plonker recently? -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 23:33:55 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <3f3c569e.356f362c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:50 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 787 Lines: 29 In a message dated 29/05/98 19:36:43, you write: >davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) writes: > > >> Just out of interest - so I'll know (I'm using windowz). Which windows >> keys/characters in particular aren't allowed? > >None, everything should be fine as long as you don't use mail programs >which insert silly codes in them (I suspect Bob's post had the so called >intelligent quotes in ie the ones that go ` and then ' but the double >quote one's ... > >Bob: >Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >This is non-portable-ish ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > >Yours: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >This is fine :) > >Lee. I stopped using version 3 of AOL's software because that sometimes added strange characters - but I've never known version 2 to do so. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 23:33:56 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:49 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2008 Lines: 62 In a message dated 29/05/98 19:30:07, you write: >On Fri, 29 May 1998 05:00:32 EDT, wrote: > > >>When stock of PoP started to run low a couple of years ago Colin McD and I >>arranged, on behalf of Revelation, a gentlemens agreement with Chris White >>that a version of PoP could be produced in a normal case with insert. >>However, it seems that those that want it already have it. > >I'd say that it appears that this particular game is no longer >sellable then. That is not your desision to make though is it? > >Is the game still under any kind of contract with Revelation (or >anyone else) ? > >If so, when does it run out? > >I get this funny picture of a number of hungry individuals clinging on >to old and obsolete stuff, with ideas that someday... someday... a >sale may occur. :-) And why not? > >I'm not saying that games like PoP were anything but brilliant when >they first came out, but so were the old speccy greats - that are now >(except for a small minority) freely available on the net. The vast majority of them illegally. > >I suspect the only valid reason for subscribing to a magazine related >to SAM is to delude ones self into believing that all is well. I >remember overhearing Carol Brooksbank at one of the Glos shows, and >she was describing the SAM market as a 'cottage industry'; she seemed >to like saying that. The trouble is that this 'cottage' thing is a >strictly controlled entity, with a few dictators who hate any kind of >competition. > >I say that anyone who is talented at coding SAM should forget it and >move onto pastures new. Why bother doing anything at all in this >stifling atmosphere? > Well why don't you go away and leave those of us that want a future for SAM to have one. >Can anyone (apart from the vultures) give a good reason why any of us >should work to advance SAMs cause anymore? If you can't answer that one yourself then I'm not going to waste my time with you any more. > > >Bye, > _ > |_)ave Goodbye. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 23:33:57 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <1bf2f020.356f362d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:48 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 576 Lines: 24 In a message dated 29/05/98 18:09:18, you write: > >Bob, a schematic is a *lot* different to a PCB layout GERBER plot file or >acetate sheet. > >A schematic tells you what pieces you need. A PCB layout file tells you how >you wire it up. > >Simon Simon, I've been working with things like that for longer than you have been able to read and write (yes, I am that old). A schematic shows you how the circuit works, how components are linked together, and yes, what components are needed. A PCB layout is one interpretation of a schematic. Now, your point was? -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 23:33:57 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <86a3bf1e.356f362e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:53 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 725 Lines: 30 In a message dated 29/05/98 20:59:41, you write: >> And even if in the Public Domain there is still copyright - nobody can pass >> off anothers work as if it was their own, the original author's name should >> never be removed. > >Once something's in the public domain, you lose all rights to it. You >don't even retain copyright. Oh No You Don't > >> However, when giving the non-facts-and-figures technical details of >something >> the author would have to take care. In the main I still think a web based >tech >> manual is a waste of time and effort. > >You could always lower the price of the paper one? What? And make a loss? Two words, and the second one is off :) > >Paul -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 23:49:41 1998 Message-ID: <356F3ADF.36CFE4C1@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:46:55 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Ding ding, end of round one References: <199805271806_MC2-3E5A-38AF@compuserve.com> <19980527232207Z49305-30736+704@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 699 Lines: 14 After the first round of fighting, it looks like Bob is once again losing, but won't admit to BEING WRONG ABOUT A SINGLE THING EVER AND I'M GETTING SO PISSED OFF WITH HIM. But anyway :) Please note the change of email address, although if you have sent mail to the old one, don't worry, I'll have it for a week or two yet. Bob, sorry to spring this on you, you can add me to your kill file again ;) AND WHILE YOU CAN READ MY MAIL, I WANT THE MONEY BACK FOR THE SAM_CLOCK FOR THE THIRTIETH TIME! -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri May 29 23:57:51 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:49:00 -0400 Message-ID: <000701bd8b53$f8c8d660$1f38accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 576 Lines: 14 > Sorry Ian, but that is untrue. To have FULL protection on a > design you need a > patent, but a certain degree of protection is afforded by copyrighting the > design. Someone can take your design and re-design it to be > different while > still doing the same job, but the closeness or otherwise to the > original could > lead to an infringement of copyright. I don't think copyright would apply on such a simple interface as the 256k board. Anyone with any electronics knowledge could design one with one hand behind their back, from only the pinout of the socket. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 00:31:32 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <7c7eb71f.356f3628@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:29:06 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 3528 Lines: 75 At 11:26 pm +0100 29/5/98, wrote: >>>Andrew, you cannot be 'in business' unless you charge for things. People who >>>give things away are no 'in business' >> >>Stop playing with words Bob. >> >>Have you read that page yet? Because you should bloody well shut up until >>you have. I'm sick and tired of arguing with someone who's so blatantly not >>interested in the other people's point of view. >> >>http://www.gnu.org >> >>Read it. And get out of my inbox until you know what you're talking about. > >Grow up. If you cant understand a common concept like 'business' then it is >you that do not know what you are talking about (yet again). Oh get lost. You're telling *me* to grow up? You *are* playing with words. Business doesn't only mean a commercial enterprise, as you very well know. You have NO RIGHT to claim I don't know what I'm talking about. As for you saying "yet again", well you're just being a complete fscking asshole, yet again. That's right, I am calling you names. This time it's personal. No more wordgames. You barged onto this list with your clones spouting the "Bob's so wonderful" crap, and treating anybody else like dirt - you dig up the same stupid arguments time and time again and YOU'RE ALWAYS WRONG! I've made a special effort this term to be constructive. I've tried to keep out of the flamewars, and when I did join I was being positive. I even (publicly) offer to support your bloody stupid and pointless SRAM project. And what response do I get? Does Bob give sensible replies? Does Bob spend a moment's thought or consideration? Like hell he does! FACE IT BOB! YOU'RE A STUPID PRAT AND ALL THE REAL PEOPLE ON THIS LIST HATE YOU! Why don't you bugger off and make somebody else's life difficult?! I have better things to do with my time than sit here playing word games and trying to explain to you the basics of common morality (something you've obviously never learnt before.) It may surprise you to learn that most of the people on this list are here for the same reasons: because they love the Sam, because they enjoy using the Sam, or they enjoy talking to other like-minded people. I still program the Sam because it's a nice machine to work with. I hold no hope of getting money out of it and I never really have. But you're the odd one out here - I don't believe you have any real love for the Sam at all. I think you're only sticking around the market at all because that's the only place where your money's coming from, and frankly I can't see any reason you should subscribe to this list except to feed your self-centered inflated egomania. Well, I've had enough of it. You make the Sam community a rotten place to hang out. It's time for you and your clones to catch a spell on my killfile for a change. Why did I ever bother trying to be nice to you? Like I'd write your HTML for you and help promote your stupid little pamphlet. If there's any justice in the world, it'll fold within a year. May this flame be your preview of burning in hell. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From imc Sat May 30 01:10:43 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: from Andrew Collier at "May 30, 98 00:29:06 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 01:10:43 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 536 Lines: 12 On Sat, 30 May 1998 00:29:06 +0100, Andrew Collier said: > Oh get lost. You're telling *me* to grow up? You *are* playing with words. [rest of flame deleted] +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ | 5 | | 8 | | 5 | | 6 | | 5 | | 7 | | 5 | | 6 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +---+O+---+ +---+O+---+ +---+O+---+ +---+O+---+ \_|_/ \_|_/ \_|_/ \_|_/ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ From imc Sat May 30 01:17:35 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <86a3bf1e.356f362e@aol.com> from BrenchleyR at "May 29, 98 06:26:53 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 01:17:35 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 416 Lines: 17 On Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:53 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > >Once something's in the public domain, you lose all rights to it. You > >don't even retain copyright. > > Oh No You Don't Oh yes you do. > Well strictly speaking you waive the copyright. If you don't waive the copyright then you haven't placed the work in the Public Domain, and that's that. It's a matter of definition. imc From imc Sat May 30 01:29:16 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: from The Giggler at "May 29, 98 08:35:51 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 01:29:16 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 446 Lines: 11 On 29 May 1998 20:35:51 +0100, The Giggler said: > Bob: > Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > This is non-portable-ish ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ No it's reasonably portable, so long as the mail actually contains characters only from ISO-8859-1, which it didn't. Since it's told you what character set it's using your software could go and use an appropriate font. ISO-8859-1 is a rather common standard so it ought to be available. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 02:06:52 1998 Message-Id: <199805300104.CAA19949@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 02:04:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <9d9c039f.356f3627@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 413 Lines: 12 > Some people are just born to argue. Look - it was (is, I've checked the file) > ok here. What people are trying to get through to you is that what it looks like there has bugger all to do with how it looks on their machine. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From imc Sat May 30 02:55:21 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <3570fe02.26305150@mail.enterprise.net> from Dave at "May 29, 98 07:20:55 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 02:55:21 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 464 Lines: 11 On Fri, 29 May 1998 19:20:55 GMT, Dave said: > Just out of interest - so I'll know (I'm using windowz). Which windows > keys/characters in particular aren't allowed? If you use Word and have smart quoting turned on then it will eat all your quotes and apostrophes and turn them into unprintable characters (like the ones Bob had in his message (YES YOU DID)). It also tends to eat sequences of three dots. If you stay away from Word you are probably OK. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 04:39:51 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:31:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bd8b7b$7150c940$6524accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199805300010.BAA14871@ruby.comlab> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 786 Lines: 20 > On Sat, 30 May 1998 00:29:06 +0100, Andrew Collier said: > > Oh get lost. You're telling *me* to grow up? You *are* playing > with words. > [rest of flame deleted] > > +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ > | 5 | | 8 | | 5 | | 6 | | 5 | | 7 | | 5 | | 6 | > | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > +---+O+---+ +---+O+---+ +---+O+---+ +---+O+---+ > \_|_/ \_|_/ \_|_/ \_|_/ > / \ / \ / \ / \ > / \ / \ / \ / \ I just nearly splattered a mouthful of chilli all over the computer. Thanks Ian. :) Ian -- you're the archive master. Was there a time on this list when it wasn't all flames? Or has it only happened since ... you know? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 11:31:05 1998 Message-ID: <35704658.50E51C75@lhutz.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:48:11 -0700 From: James R Curry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <9d9c039f.356f3627@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 260 Lines: 10 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > Some people are just born to argue. Look - it was (is, I've checked the file) > ok here. Trying to stay out of a lot of the arguments going on here, but as far as this goes - it certainly didn't come out correctly at my end... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 11:35:24 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:31:52 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: The SAM In-reply-to: <000001bd8b2b$c84bb020$1f38accf@default> References: <3510fff5.356ec666@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <319E4B449B1@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 321 Lines: 8 > I personally think it's dead wrong to patent mathematical algorithms, because > if one person can come up with it, anyone else can come up with it > independently. That's the whole point of mathematics -- reproducibility > along a logical path). I didn't know that you could do that for Mathematical Algorithms. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 11:35:25 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:34:36 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <86a3bf1e.356f362e@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <319F0AA6542@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 249 Lines: 7 > >Once something's in the public domain, you lose all rights to it. You > >don't even retain copyright. I thought that the essence of PD was that the author still retained copyright, but agreed to it being sold and copied by someone else. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 11:43:36 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:38:10 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805291749.SAA03567@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <199805291450.OAA19795@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <319FF78688C@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 295 Lines: 10 > and not only that, but my email software kindly split that email into > four separate messages, the first three of which contained only half > a word each. and that didn't make me happy. > > dave Yes, it did that for me. It encoded it as multiple attachments, each with a word in. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 11:51:11 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:47:15 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <35704658.50E51C75@lhutz.demon.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <31A262E6B74@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 486 Lines: 12 > > Some people are just born to argue. Look - it was (is, I've checked the file) > > ok here. > > Trying to stay out of a lot of the arguments going on here, but as far as this > goes - it certainly didn't come out correctly at my end... It didn't come out correctly at mine either, and I'm only using standard e-mail software. Just because something is OK at your end it doesn't mean it's okay at everybody's else's end. Don't they say the customer is always right, Bob?!? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 12:12:54 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:05:33 GMT Message-ID: <3573dda2.12186264@mail.enterprise.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2058 Lines: 61 On Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:49 EDT, wrote: >>I'd say that it appears that this particular game is no longer >>sellable then. > >That is not your desision to make though is it? True, but I was making a comment. Right or wrong, I'm allowed to make comments. >> >>I get this funny picture of a number of hungry individuals clinging on >>to old and obsolete stuff, with ideas that someday... someday... a >>sale may occur. :-) > >And why not? I didn't ask why. I made a comment about how I find the current state of things to be amusing - in a perverse sort of way. >>I'm not saying that games like PoP were anything but brilliant when >>they first came out, but so were the old speccy greats - that are now >>(except for a small minority) freely available on the net. > >The vast majority of them illegally. Illegal or not, they're there to be had by anyone. If you're concerned, why don't you ring the police? >>I say that anyone who is talented at coding SAM should forget it and >>move onto pastures new. Why bother doing anything at all in this >>stifling atmosphere? >> >Well why don't you go away and leave those of us that want a future for SAM to >have one. Why should I?. I've got as much right as anyone to be here and say anything I want. If someone who had been a member of the list longer than me asked me to go away, then I might at least ltake note and consider it. But I've been here longer than you have, and I remember what it was like before you came in here laying the law down. The list was for SAM Users. Your presence here is comparable to Alan Sugar in an Amstrad mailing list. >>Can anyone (apart from the vultures) give a good reason why any of us >>should work to advance SAMs cause anymore? > >If you can't answer that one yourself then I'm not going to waste my time with >you any more. Actually, I asked for anyone other than the vultures to answer my question. So you were wasting your time all along. Who cares. Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 12:12:54 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:05:35 GMT Message-ID: <3576e2a8.13472418@mail.enterprise.net> References: <13d84e45.356f362d@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <13d84e45.356f362d@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 467 Lines: 19 On Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:52 EDT, wrote: >Dave, is it my imagination, or have you become a right plonker recently? You're imagining that I'm a plonker. Fair enough, I don't mind a bit. I think the description of 'Fat Controller' suits you down to the ground. And why don't you give Gavin his money back? Two more words to you, and the first one is 'Drop'. Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 12:12:54 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:05:37 GMT Message-ID: <356fe69a.638037@mail.enterprise.net> References: <000401bd8b2b$cd137160$1f38accf@default> <19980529202510Z49270-11583+535@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> In-Reply-To: <19980529202510Z49270-11583+535@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 581 Lines: 23 On Wed, 27 May 1998 20:18:22 +0000, David Ledbury at wrote: >> >> Has anyone fixed the cracked version of PoP so that it can be used >> with SIM Coupe yet? That would be very nice. :-) >> >Yes. But I think you'll find it belongs to someone. And doing that >sort of thing is called piracy. Is that a fact. Oh dear, how awful. Watch me bleed. >It's bloody stupid - not very nice. That's a very authoritarian tone David. I'd better be careful, or you might report me to the thought police. Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 14:44:37 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <13d84e45.356f362d@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896533846.106622.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 206 Lines: 12 From: > > Dave, is it my imagination, or have you become a right plonker recently? > > -- > Bob. Can't say he's any more of a plonker than you are. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 14:44:37 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <3570fe02.26305150@mail.enterprise.net> References: <199805291749.SAA03567@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896533846.106627.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 498 Lines: 12 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) > Hey, it could be a lot worse if people used email the way MS sets the > default in their (can't remember its name coz its crap) software. I > mean, who the hell wants to use pretty colours and put pictures in > their email! :-) All that stuff should be left to Web pages where it was designed to be, not in mail messages, which were designed for text, which would be very quick and not resource hungry like html / mime. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 14:44:37 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <86a3bf1e.356f362e@aol.com> In-reply-to: <319F0AA6542@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896533850.106646.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 384 Lines: 14 From: "Matthew Craven" > > >Once something's in the public domain, you lose all rights to it. You > > >don't even retain copyright. > > I thought that the essence of PD was that the author still retained > copyright, but agreed to it being sold and copied by someone else. > > MJC. No, thats Freeware, sort of...... -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 14:44:39 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Any progress? Good Question:) In-reply-to: <000201bd8b2b$cb144600$1f38accf@default> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896533843.106615.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 317 Lines: 17 From: "Simon Cooke" > > >Simon > > > > So. a) what does he see as being wrong with the SD system, and b) > > why does he > > feel that the price is not reasonable? > > You'd have to ask him... > > Simon I think i may be kill filed??? Oh what a shame :-) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 14:44:39 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896533844.106619.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 781 Lines: 26 From: > >>that a version of PoP could be produced in a normal case with insert. > >>However, it seems that those that want it already have it. > > > >I'd say that it appears that this particular game is no longer > >sellable then. > > That is not your desision to make though is it? No, but it was his view, so why do you have to comment against everybody's own view??? >Can anyone (apart from the vultures) give a good reason why any of us > >should work to advance SAMs cause anymore? > > If you can't answer that one yourself then I'm not going to waste my time with > you any more. Yeah, dont bother to lower your self, i don't know why anyone still wastes they breath sending replies to you ( myself included ). -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 14:44:41 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: The SAM In-reply-to: <000701bd8b53$f8c8d660$1f38accf@default> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896533850.106643.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 756 Lines: 20 From: "Simon Cooke" > > still doing the same job, but the closeness or otherwise to the > > original could > > lead to an infringement of copyright. > > I don't think copyright would apply on such a simple interface as the 256k > board. Anyone with any electronics knowledge could design one with one hand > behind their back, from only the pinout of the socket. > I agree, like you say there is only really one way to connect memory chips to the pin-outs off the memory upgrade connector. I'd love to see Bob try to take someone to court for designing and building there own mem upgrade, it'd stand no, chance, espesially with the lack of demand for the item, not very commecial now is it. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 14:44:41 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <3572020a.27337469@mail.enterprise.net> References: <4cc6d2ad.356e7931@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896533846.106626.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 231 Lines: 11 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) > Can anyone (apart from the vultures) give a good reason why any of us > should work to advance SAMs cause anymore? Don't you mean Format's cause ??? :-) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 14:44:42 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sam-users archive In-reply-to: <199805292054.VAA27533@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> References: <199805282244.XAA06873@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896533848.106637.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 310 Lines: 14 From: "Paul Walker" > > > WinZip is shareware, not free. > > Yep, but some people get the wrong idea from phrases like > "effectively free" :-) Yeah and some people dislike the work 'free' because surprisingly they dont make money out of it... :-) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 14:44:43 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <000101bd8b3e$9251a7a0$1f38accf@default> References: <3570fe02.26305150@mail.enterprise.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896533848.106633.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 753 Lines: 21 From: "Simon Cooke" > > Hey, it could be a lot worse if people used email the way MS sets the > > default in their (can't remember its name coz its crap) software. I > > mean, who the hell wants to use pretty colours and put pictures in > > their email! :-) > > > As long as you don't let Microsoft Word be your email editor, and you use > Outlook 98, it's quite admirable at handling emails. I have mine set up to > standard internet format (or as near as dammit). > > Simon > I like Misrosoft Messaging (inbox) V5, with two exeptions, the reply quotes the text below the insertion point, and doesn't indent the quote, plus, there is no routing for mail folders. ( Oh thas three, whoops) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 14:44:44 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805292057.VAA27816@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896533848.106639.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 494 Lines: 19 From: "Paul Walker" > > Once something's in the public domain, you lose all rights to it. You > don't even retain copyright. True, so they need FreeWare > > However, when giving the non-facts-and-figures technical details of something > > the author would have to take care. In the main I still think a web based tech > > manual is a waste of time and effort. > > You could always lower the price of the paper one? ha, ha, ha,ha -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 14:44:46 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <9d9c039f.356f3627@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-ID: <896533844.106617.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1336 Lines: 40 From: > >> It is alright at my end. > > > >That's irrelevant, you're sending mail to people with no knowledge of > >what platform they are using, so you should not include > >platform-independent content in your mails regardless of how it looks at > >your end ... > > > >Lee. > > Some people are just born to argue. Look - it was (is, I've checked the file) > ok here. > -- > Bob. But as we've have this discusion before, your email software is sh!t so stop being so ignorant to the internet e-mail specifications, since AOL deosnt stick to them, yet they keep shoving there not standard's onto everybody else. It's so bloody anoying, everbody other that you, or possibly other AOL users cannot read the quotes, which just goes to show that you are not correct, any non standard characters could be sent in MIME format if it supports it, but obviously your e-mail software isn't doing it's job correctly...again. And dont give me any of that bull sh!t about AOL do it so it's jot to be right, It's not, which means AOL is wrong. Just another pointless argument because Bob cannot see two sides to anything, only his own narrow minded view, he must have cats eyes. AOL sh!t and Bobs a to55er do dah, do dah, AOL sh!t and Bobs a to55er do dah, do, dah, day.... :-) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 15:15:23 1998 Message-Id: <199805301408.PAA07739@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:08:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <86a3bf1e.356f362e@aol.com> In-reply-to: <319F0AA6542@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 468 Lines: 12 > I thought that the essence of PD was that the author still retained > copyright, but agreed to it being sold and copied by someone else. That's more akin to freeware, while not fitting that exactly either. Quite a lot of people don't make the distinction, which is unfortunate. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 15:15:23 1998 Message-Id: <199805301409.PAA07885@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:09:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sam-users archive References: <199805292054.VAA27533@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> In-reply-to: <896533848.106637.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 319 Lines: 10 > Yeah and some people dislike the work 'free' because surprisingly they dont > make money out of it... :-) That's their problem. ;) Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 16:59:05 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Any progress? Good Question:) Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:48:57 GMT Message-ID: <3573288c.17522275@mail.enterprise.net> References: <896533843.106615.0@error.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <896533843.106615.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 442 Lines: 20 On Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100, Dean Liversidge wrote: >> > So. a) what does he see as being wrong with the SD system, and b) >> > why does he >> > feel that the price is not reasonable? >> >> You'd have to ask him... >> >> Simon > >I think i may be kill filed??? Oh what a shame :-) There will only be Bill and Samsboss not in it at this rate. :) Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 16:59:06 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:48:56 GMT Message-ID: <3572283b.17441189@mail.enterprise.net> References: <4cc6d2ad.356e7931@aol.com> <896533846.106626.0@error.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <896533846.106626.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 260 Lines: 16 On Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100, Dean Liversidge wrote: >> should work to advance SAMs cause anymore? > > >Don't you mean Format's cause ??? Tsk.. was I that obvious? :) Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 16:59:07 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:49:09 GMT Message-ID: <35772a26.17932781@mail.enterprise.net> References: <896533846.106622.0@error.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <896533846.106622.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 336 Lines: 18 On Sat, 30 May 1998 14:05:25 +0100, Dean Liversidge wrote: >> Dave, is it my imagination, or have you become a right plonker recently? >> >> -- >> Bob. > >Can't say he's any more of a plonker than you are. Erm.. should I laugh or should I cry? :) Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 17:46:43 1998 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 17:24:35 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Ian Dalziel Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <356fe69a.638037@mail.enterprise.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 275 Lines: 11 In article <356fe69a.638037@mail.enterprise.net>, Dave writes > >That's a very authoritarian tone David. I'd better be careful, or you >might report me to the thought police. > David can't report you - he's in the kill-file... -- Ian Dalziel From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 17:56:13 1998 Message-Id: <199805301654.RAA06459@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 17:53:34 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 733 Lines: 17 > >I'm not saying that games like PoP were anything but brilliant when > >they first came out, but so were the old speccy greats - that are now > >(except for a small minority) freely available on the net. > > The vast majority of them illegally. all of the games / snapshots / etc on nvg are now in the public domain, that is the whole point. it is, in fact, the reason that nvg can operate in the way it currently does, without being closed down by petty minded copyright lawyers. there's a list available on the internet of all the companies who have explicitly NOT allowed the release of their spectrum software into the public domain. i can't be bothered to go looking for it, but anyway, there ain't much there. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 20:36:53 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <4b33ee60.35705eda@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:32:40 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 547 Lines: 21 In a message dated 29/05/98 22:54:26, you write: > >I don't think copyright would apply on such a simple interface as the 256k >board. Anyone with any electronics knowledge could design one with one hand >behind their back, from only the pinout of the socket. > >Simon > > But that, Simon, is exactly where copyright can be better than patent law. It is, in this instance, the signal layout on the pin connection that is copyrightable. It is like the notes in a song, the notes are not copyright, but the way they link together is. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 20:48:00 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <919e0863.357061b7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:44:54 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3621 Lines: 86 Sorry folks, but emails to Andrew have bounced in the past so I have no other choice but to answer the idiot through sam_users. In a message dated 29/05/98 23:29:55, you write: >. > >Oh get lost. You're telling *me* to grow up? You *are* playing with words. >Business doesn't only mean a commercial enterprise, as you very well know. >You have NO RIGHT to claim I don't know what I'm talking about. As for you >saying "yet again", well you're just being a complete fscking asshole, yet >again. In the context of what we were talking about business most certainly does mean a commercial enterprise, but as you have shown yourself to be a complete dumbo on anything remotely to do with business I am not surprised you didn't understand the conversation. > >That's right, I am calling you names. This time it's personal. No more >wordgames. You barged onto this list with your clones spouting the "Bob's >so wonderful" crap, and treating anybody else like dirt - you dig up the >same stupid arguments time and time again and YOU'RE ALWAYS WRONG! I have no clones you plonker. > >I've made a special effort this term to be constructive. I've tried to keep >out of the flamewars, and when I did join I was being positive. I even >(publicly) offer to support your bloody stupid and pointless SRAM project. >And what response do I get? Does Bob give sensible replies? Does Bob spend >a moment's thought or consideration? Like hell he does! > >FACE IT BOB! >YOU'RE A STUPID PRAT AND ALL THE REAL PEOPLE ON THIS LIST HATE YOU! The only prat in this conversation is you Andrew - YET AGAIN!!! > >Why don't you bugger off and make somebody else's life difficult?! I have >better things to do with my time than sit here playing word games and >trying to explain to you the basics of common morality (something you've >obviously never learnt before.) > >It may surprise you to learn that most of the people on this list are here >for the same reasons: because they love the Sam, because they enjoy using >the Sam, or they enjoy talking to other like-minded people. I still program >the Sam because it's a nice machine to work with. I hold no hope of getting >money out of it and I never really have. > >But you're the odd one out here - I don't believe you have any real love >for the Sam at all. I think you're only sticking around the market at all >because that's the only place where your money's coming from, and frankly I The majority of my money does not come from the SAM world, the I would think forms only 20-25% now and if anything I have to put money into it to keep it alive. >can't see any reason you should subscribe to this list except to feed your >self-centered inflated egomania. Egomania??? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, you are the load mouth idiot that seems to have set himself the goal of picking fault with everything I say - just for the bloody-minded sport of it. Well the day you contribute 1% of what I have to the SAM world I may just take you seriously - until then shut up. > >Well, I've had enough of it. You make the Sam community a rotten place to >hang out. It's time for you and your clones to catch a spell on my killfile >for a change. Oh good. > >Why did I ever bother trying to be nice to you? Like I'd write your HTML >for you and help promote your stupid little pamphlet. If there's any >justice in the world, it'll fold within a year. May this flame be your >preview of burning in hell. I think you have found your own personal twisted little hell as it is. > >Andrew Bye Andrew, I would like to say it has been rewarding knowing you - but it hasn't. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 20:52:00 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <7291b563.357062c2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:49:21 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 739 Lines: 29 In a message dated 30/05/98 00:18:20, you write: >On Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:53 EDT, BrenchleyR said: >> >Once something's in the public domain, you lose all rights to it. You >> >don't even retain copyright. > >> > >> Oh No You Don't > >Oh yes you do. > >> > >Well strictly speaking you waive the copyright. If you don't waive the >copyright then you haven't placed the work in the Public Domain, and that's >that. It's a matter of definition. > >imc > > Most things in the PD can be looked on in that way but the originator can, and often does, still hold copyright. Public Domain covers a multitude of sins - many of them legal minefields because they are too new to have had test cases yet. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 21:39:13 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <7523f757.35706d26@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:41 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 564 Lines: 19 In a message dated 30/05/98 10:28:46, you write: >BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > >> Some people are just born to argue. Look - it was (is, I've checked the >file) >> ok here. > >Trying to stay out of a lot of the arguments going on here, but as far as >this >goes - it certainly didn't come out correctly at my end... Can anyone offer any ideas as to how a posting, which on my file is pure ascii, can get altered along the way? I know it happened a couple of time when I was using version 3 of the AOL software but I don;t know how it happens or where. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 21:39:13 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <626830d8.35706d2a@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:44 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 956 Lines: 26 In a message dated 30/05/98 13:53:49, you write: >From: "Simon Cooke" >> > still doing the same job, but the closeness or otherwise to the >> > original could >> > lead to an infringement of copyright. >> >> I don't think copyright would apply on such a simple interface as the 256k >> board. Anyone with any electronics knowledge could design one with one hand >> behind their back, from only the pinout of the socket. >> > >I agree, like you say there is only really one way to connect memory chips to > >the pin-outs off the memory upgrade connector. > >I'd love to see Bob try to take someone to court for designing and building >there >own mem upgrade, it'd stand no, chance, espesially with the lack of demand >for the item, not very commecial now is it. If someone build something for their own use then there can be no problem, but if they build it for someone else - that is a different matter -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 21:39:13 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:46 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1729 Lines: 46 In a message dated 30/05/98 13:53:57, you write: [snip] > >But as we've have this discusion before, your email software is sh!t so stop >being so ignorant to the internet e-mail specifications, since AOL deosnt >stick >to them, yet they keep shoving there not standard's onto everybody else. I'm finding this increasingly frustrating because, as I've said before, there were no special characters in the email message when it left my machine. And I don't think it was the AOL software (yes, I may have expected it from version 3 which now adds HTML codes if you are not careful, or from IE4 which runs its own rules that I've yet to work out - but not the software I'm using). However, I have set up an auto return system for a few weeks so that everthing that goes out also comes back, that way I can monitor what is happening. As I don't download any messages to sam-users that I originate I did not see the original posting come back. [snip ] > >Just another pointless argument because Bob cannot see two sides to >anything, only his own narrow minded view, he must have cats eyes. Dean, what are you on? Stop smoking it right away. Look, someone complained about some strange characters in a posting, I said they were ok at my end, you go way over the top throwing insults at me and AOL when it may not have been either of our faults. Please accept my word that the strange characters were not in the stream of data sent out by my machine - where they came from I do not know (and whats more I do not care) it was a strange X-File type happening, just forget it. > > >AOL sh!t and Bobs a to55er do dah, do dah, AOL sh!t and Bobs a to55er do >dah, do, dah, day.... Twice back with lumps on :) > >:-) > -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 21:39:16 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:41 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 811 Lines: 21 In a message dated 30/05/98 01:55:59, you write: >On Fri, 29 May 1998 19:20:55 GMT, Dave said: >> Just out of interest - so I'll know (I'm using windowz). Which windows >> keys/characters in particular aren't allowed? > >If you use Word and have smart quoting turned on then it will eat all >your quotes and apostrophes and turn them into unprintable characters >(like the ones Bob had in his message (YES YOU DID)). It also tends >to eat sequences of three dots. If you stay away from Word you are >probably OK. > >imc I would not touch Word with a barge pole. Most emails are composed direct using either the AOL email software or the full registered version of Agent. Some, longer once (not usually the replies) originate in AmiPro - which I still prefer against any other PC wordprocessor. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 21:39:17 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:42 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 660 Lines: 19 In a message dated 30/05/98 10:38:32, you write: >> >Once something's in the public domain, you lose all rights to it. You >> >don't even retain copyright. > >I thought that the essence of PD was that the author still retained >copyright, but agreed to it being sold and copied by someone else. > >MJC. In essence you have it in one. With programs some authors encourage people to add to their program and append their name to the list of contributors - but even then the author more often than not reatians the copyright. And, although rare, it is possible to withdraw something from PD. It is a legal quagmire but anything is possible. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 21:39:17 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <492771d8.35706d2d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:48 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 435 Lines: 17 In a message dated 30/05/98 14:09:04, you write: >o > >> I thought that the essence of PD was that the author still retained >> copyright, but agreed to it being sold and copied by someone else. > >That's more akin to freeware, while not fitting that exactly either. >Quite a lot of people don't make the distinction, which is >unfortunate. > >Paul As far as I understand it all freeware is PD, not all PD is freeware. -- Bob. From imc Sat May 30 22:20:43 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM In-Reply-To: <4b33ee60.35705eda@aol.com> from BrenchleyR at "May 30, 98 03:32:40 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:20:43 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 488 Lines: 11 On Sat, 30 May 1998 15:32:40 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > But that, Simon, is exactly where copyright can be better than patent law. It > is, in this instance, the signal layout on the pin connection that is > copyrightable. You can't copyright anything that isn't material, and that sounds like something that is not material. Do we honestly have to go down to Her Majesty's Stationery Office and purchase one copy of the Copyrights, Designs and Patents Act 1988 c.42 to settle this? imc From imc Sat May 30 22:23:37 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <7291b563.357062c2@aol.com> from BrenchleyR at "May 30, 98 03:49:21 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:23:37 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 832 Lines: 20 On Sat, 30 May 1998 15:49:21 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > >Well strictly speaking you waive the copyright. If you don't waive the > >copyright then you haven't placed the work in the Public Domain, and that's > >that. It's a matter of definition. > Most things in the PD can be looked on in that way but the originator can, > and often does, still hold copyright. No. No waived copyright -> no public domain. > Public Domain covers a multitude of sins > - many of them legal minefields because they are too new to have had test > cases yet. Many people use the words "public domain" for various different things. That does not mean they are right. The legal definition of "public domain" is something which is free from copyright. I just checked my dictionary and it agrees with me. imc From imc Sat May 30 22:29:19 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <7523f757.35706d26@aol.com> from BrenchleyR at "May 30, 98 04:33:41 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:29:19 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 759 Lines: 16 On Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:41 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > Can anyone offer any ideas as to how a posting, which on my file is pure > ascii, can get altered along the way? How do you know it is pure ASCII? The only way you can find out is by trying it on another operating system (DOS might work but I'm not certain) or by using a hex-dump or similar utility to verify that none of the characters had the top bit set. I believe the characters you are looking for are 91 and 92 hex. If you haven't done this then you can't claim that the file is pure ASCII. Anyway, it seems almost certain that the characters were generated before the message left your computer. Since they are windows-specific quotes it's unlikely that any other computer is to blame. imc From imc Sat May 30 22:34:20 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <492771d8.35706d2d@aol.com> from BrenchleyR at "May 30, 98 04:33:48 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:34:20 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 400 Lines: 11 On Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:48 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > As far as I understand it all freeware is PD, not all PD is freeware. Strictly speaking, freeware and PD are entirely disjoint terms since freeware is copyright software which is offered free (actually, not even that, since you are allowed to charge for GPL software) but PD software is not copyright. imc PS Who had 10 in the sweepstake? :-) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 22:39:40 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 21:28:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: P's & Q's! Message-Id: <19980530213507Z49374-11583+710@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 287 Lines: 11 Look peeps, I know some members of the list have been getting rather irritated as of late, with the actions/in-actions of certain parties. However, is there any way we can refrain from the usage of profanities on this mailing list? Your co-operation is appreciated. David Ledbury From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 23:00:29 1998 Message-Id: <9805302155.AA31621@mars.cableol.net> From: Neil Maynard To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:59:52 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <919e0863.357061b7@aol.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 977 Lines: 22 If this is the case then why are you so against making the Tech Manual available ?? Surely it would do more good to the obviously (as far as you are concerned because I don't know about other companies) dead sam market to release such things that may help 'revive' the Sam market and maybe even get some new people interested in the machine. Maybe it's just me but it seems like a good idea to try and keep the current sam community going for as long as possible. If you could get more people interested in the sam then maybe you could sell more of your magazines ?? But then you're never going to listen to someone who obviously has not got as much business experience as you though so why the hell did I bother writing this!! Neil Maynard On 30 May 98, at 15:44, BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > > The majority of my money does not come from the SAM world, the I would think > forms only 20-25% now and if anything I have to put money into it to keep it > alive. > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 23:37:07 1998 Message-Id: <199805302230.XAA22222@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:30:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <492771d8.35706d2d@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 289 Lines: 9 > As far as I understand it all freeware is PD, not all PD is freeware. Then you understand it wrongly. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 23:37:08 1998 Message-Id: <199805302231.XAA22417@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:31:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <199805302123.WAA19615@ruby.comlab> References: <7291b563.357062c2@aol.com> from BrenchleyR at "May 30, 98 03:49:21 pm" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 322 Lines: 10 > No. No waived copyright -> no public domain. Thank you. I was fairly sure I wasn't going insane, but it's nice to have confirmation. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 23:37:08 1998 Message-Id: <199805302232.XAA22470@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:32:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: P's & Q's! In-reply-to: <19980530213507Z49374-11583+710@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 295 Lines: 10 > However, is there any way we can refrain from the usage of > profanities on this mailing list? Fsck off... Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 23:47:49 1998 Message-Id: <199805302244.XAA19003@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:43:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <3a2113f8.35706d2f@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 626 Lines: 20 > Where is the list of companies that has released their titles? I saw one a while back but it was very very long. I guess the other guy made up the list of companies that have NOT released their stuff to address this very issue. > I've not found one. I'm pretty sure I have. I'll have another quick trawl, maybe. > I've not looked closely at NVG but I've certainly come across titles on > the net that I know for a fact are not PD. Such as? > Something has to be placed into the public domain, not kept out of it. If in doubt, it is not PD. this is, of course, totally true, and not something i ever disputed. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat May 30 23:57:43 1998 Message-Id: <199805302253.AAA16181@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: Sam users Subject: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 00:56:07 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1433 Lines: 35 So there, i have said it. >From what i have seen the last days from you i can only conclude that you have shot your self in the foot on several occasions. You are a insult to the SAM and its users. once I thought you did mean well for the Sam. But that is something that I find hard to believe these days. --Snipped from the C.S.S.-- This is a reply to Mark Sturdy's message 22/05/98. Sorry I cannot quote the original but I've just had a system crash which has trashed all the download messages for the last two weeks. However, sorry Mark that I used the word 'lies' I hope the emails we have had have sorted things out. Now, if anyone has a question about West Coast, Revelation, SAMCo, MGT, or anything else related to SAM, I would be pleased if they could repost it and I will try to answer as best I can. --End of snip-- Still you you called him a lair in the first place. You could have cancelled that posting within in minutes if you wanted, but you did not. You could have emailed him directly, but you did not and had to call him a lair in public. And yes please give us some answers I took you out of the filter, but I am not in the mood to answer any of your stupid questions or to reply to your downright insulting comments. This also goes for your clone Bill. Have a nice day -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 00:05:18 1998 From: Maria Rookyard To: SAM Users Mailing List Subject: To whom it may concern..... Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:56:52 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 289 Lines: 23 I am sick and tired of you lot and your stupid arguments and petty squabbling. Grow up and get a life. And while I think about it... CAN WE CUT THE FUCKING SWEARING PLEASE???? It's not big, it's not hard, and it's certainly not clever. Hope this damn well helps!!!! Maria. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 00:05:19 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:55:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd8c1e$0e0ecb40$6292accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <199805302120.WAA19591@ruby.comlab> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 977 Lines: 29 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no [mailto:owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no]On > Behalf Of Ian Collier > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 1998 5:21 PM > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: The SAM > > > On Sat, 30 May 1998 15:32:40 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > > But that, Simon, is exactly where copyright can be better than > patent law. It > > is, in this instance, the signal layout on the pin connection that is > > copyrightable. > > You can't copyright anything that isn't material, and that sounds like > something that is not material. Do we honestly have to go down to Her > Majesty's Stationery Office and purchase one copy of the Copyrights, > Designs and Patents Act 1988 c.42 to settle this? Nah... just go to the library :) Besides, you can INCREDIBLY EASILY reverse engineer the PCB, so you don't need the schematics to let you produce a 256k interface. Speaking of which, IIRC, the schematics for it weren't in the tech manual... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 00:10:14 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 19:02:51 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bd8c1f$1219d6c0$6292accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <319E4B449B1@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 453 Lines: 12 > > I personally think it's dead wrong to patent mathematical > algorithms, because > > if one person can come up with it, anyone else can come up with it > > independently. That's the whole point of mathematics -- reproducibility > > along a logical path). > > I didn't know that you could do that for Mathematical Algorithms. In the USA, you can. Which is why all the furore happened over the LZW compression algorithm used in the GIF format. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 00:18:16 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:07:47 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: To whom it may concern..... In-reply-to: Message-Id: <19980530231434Z49393-11583+723@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 579 Lines: 22 > > I am sick and tired of you lot and your stupid arguments and petty > squabbling. > > Grow up and get a life. > > And while I think about it... CAN WE CUT THE FUCKING SWEARING PLEASE???? > It's not big, it's not hard, and it's certainly not clever. > > Hope this damn well helps!!!! > > > > Maria. I agree. This poor control of linguistics is terribly offensive :( /-----------------------------------------------/ \ If you're really desperate... take a look at \ / My web site at www.persona.clara.net/wibble/ / \________________________________________________\ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 00:24:16 1998 Message-Id: <199805302320.AAA20108@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 00:20:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: list of public domain spectrum companies, etc X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 715 Lines: 17 well, i had another look for this list... the best i could get is a link to what looked like (as far as i could tell) the same thing i looked at last time, but when i clicked on the link the page didn't exist. it appears the page was stored at melbourne house's site http://www.melbournehouse.com but i can no longer trace it. anyway, i'm sure there's an faq around telling us all which companies have released pd stuff, or maybe some knowledgeable sole on c.s.s (ps - spectrum Elite is not pd, and nor are most (if not all) of the Ultimate Play The Game games... but this is as much as i could find out for certain. but i didn't make this list up! i really didn't! it does exist - or at least did) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 00:26:47 1998 Message-ID: <35709519.61DA531F@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 00:24:09 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: To whom it may concern..... References: <19980530231434Z49393-11583+723@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 354 Lines: 9 David Ledbury at wrote: > This poor control of linguistics is terribly offensive :( > /-----------------------------------------------/ > \ If you're really desperate... take a look at \ > / My web site at www.persona.clara.net/wibble/ / > \________________________________________________\ Wise up! Don't you start being a prat too! Anarchy I say! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 00:36:53 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:25:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! In-reply-to: <199805302253.AAA16181@mailserv.caiw.nl> Message-Id: <19980530233207Z49393-11583+724@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1281 Lines: 39 > So there, i have said it. You sure did! [snip comments about calling Mark Sturdy a liar...] > Still you you called him a lair in the first place. You could have > cancelled that posting within in minutes if you wanted, but you did not. > You could have emailed him directly, but you did not and had to call him a > lair in public. And yes please give us some answers Mark basically said that Uncle Bob runs West Coast and Revelation. Bob has said several times in the past that he handles orders for both of these, and - as Justin has noticed - obviously handles postal dispatch as well. > I took you out of the filter, but I am not in the mood to answer any of > your stupid questions or to reply to your downright insulting comments. It is not nice to call people nasty names Bob, that is agreed. People have resorted to doing the same out of frustration. > This also goes for your clone Bill. Bill. You have been given numerous requests and offers to prove your independant existance. If you do, I'm sure we will all appologise most heartfully. > Have a nice day You too Rob! > Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics David. PS: Much as I share the same deep respect of Bob as I believe he does of myself, I think Robert has some very good points here. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 00:55:05 1998 From: Peter Harkess To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 13:31:20 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0.0 Preview3 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: using a monitor on the sam. (fwd) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 874 Lines: 35 All hail the Newflesh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain *** Forwarded message, originally written by Peter Harkess on 19-May-98 *** All hail the Newflesh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, Just a quick question on monitors. Can i connect a monitor to the sam? I have a Microvitec-multiscan monitor and i want to connect it to my sam. the connections are similar or identical to a vga monitor. Anybody help???? --- Software suppliers are trying to make their software packages more 'user-friendly'.... Their best approach, so far, has been to take all the old brochures, and stamp the words, 'user-friendly' on the cover. -- Bill Gates cheers Peter Harkess *** End of forwarded message *** Kind regards -- Experience is directly proportional to the value of equipment destroyed. -- Carolyn Scheppner cheers Peter Harkess From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 01:22:16 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 00:13:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: To whom it may concern..... In-reply-to: <35709519.61DA531F@purple.dircon.co.uk> Message-Id: <19980531001946Z49403-11583+732@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 519 Lines: 14 > Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 00:24:09 +0100 > From: Gavin Smith > > This poor control of linguistics is terribly offensive :( > > /-----------------------------------------------/ > > \ If you're really desperate... take a look at \ > > / My web site at www.persona.clara.net/wibble/ / > > \________________________________________________\ > > Wise up! Don't you start being a prat too! Anarchy I say! > I'd be in good company then round here these days.... ;) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 11:58:44 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:55:54 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <319F0AA6542@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> In-reply-to: <896533850.106646.0@error.demon.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <3324B4561D6@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 237 Lines: 9 > > I thought that the essence of PD was that the author still retained > > copyright, but agreed to it being sold and copied by someone else. > > MJC. > No, thats Freeware, sort of...... > Dean Liversidge I thought that was PD. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:07:33 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:05:12 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <3a2113f8.35706d2f@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <33272B11D46@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 772 Lines: 23 > >there's a list available on the internet of all the companies who > >have explicitly NOT allowed the release of their spectrum software > >into the public domain. i can't be bothered to go looking for it, but > >anyway, there ain't much there. > > > >dave > > Where is the list of companies that has released their titles? I've not found > one. I've not looked closely at NVG but I've certainly come across titles on > the net that I know for a fact are not PD. Something has to be placed into the > public domain, not kept out of it. If in doubt, it is not PD. > > -- > Bob. It used to be on http://www.jetman.demon.co.uk/speccy/permits.html but is not anymore. And how come that HMV are selling CDs full of old speccy games, pulled from the internet? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:13:41 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:10:22 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: The SAM In-reply-to: <000301bd8c1f$1219d6c0$6292accf@default> References: <319E4B449B1@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <332894029B4@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 206 Lines: 8 > > I didn't know that you could do that for Mathematical Algorithms. > > In the USA, you can. Which is why all the furore happened over the LZW > compression algorithm used in the GIF format. Wow. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:23:34 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:16:44 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Speccy FAQ In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <332A4015AFB@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 104 Lines: 5 Here is the address to the speccy FAQ listing. http://www.kendalls.demon.co.uk/cssfaq/index.html MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:23:35 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3324B4561D6@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> References: <896533850.106646.0@error.demon.co.uk> <319F0AA6542@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:17:33 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1473 Lines: 42 At 11:55 am +0100 31/5/98, Matthew Craven wrote: >> > I thought that the essence of PD was that the author still retained >> > copyright, but agreed to it being sold and copied by someone else. >> > MJC. >> No, thats Freeware, sort of...... >> Dean Liversidge > >I thought that was PD. > >MJC. >From http://www.pcwebopaedia.com/public_domain_software.htm >Public-domain software: > >Refers to any program that is not copyrighted. Public-domain software is >free and can be used without restrictions. The term public-domain software >is often used incorrectly to include freeware, free software that is >nevertheless copyrighted. > >Freeware: > >Copyrighted software given away for free by the author. Although it is >available for free, the author retains the copyright, which means that you >cannot do anything with it that is not expressly allowed by the author. >Usually, the author allows people to use the software, but not sell it. Now can we move on please? Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:23:35 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:18:40 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Big lists of games In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <332AC736892@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 159 Lines: 6 I discovered this file. It moved from demon to dircon. I think this is what you were talking about. http://www.jetman.dircon.co.uk/speccy/permits.html MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:39:36 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 07:35:37 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 767 Lines: 28 In a message dated 30/05/98 20:35:42, you write: > In a message dated 30/05/98 10:28:46, you write: > > >BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > > > >> Some people are just born to argue. Look - it was (is, I've checked the > >file) > >> ok here. > > > >Trying to stay out of a lot of the arguments going on here, but as far as > >this > >goes - it certainly didn't come out correctly at my end... > > Can anyone offer any ideas as to how a posting, which on my file is pure > ascii, can get altered along the way? I know it happened a couple of time > when > I was using version 3 of the AOL software but I don;t know how it happens or > where. > > -- > Bob. Try asking AOL technical, always found them very helpfull at explaining my problems. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:39:37 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 07:35:49 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 666 Lines: 20 In a message dated 30/05/98 21:21:27, you write: > On Sat, 30 May 1998 15:32:40 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > > But that, Simon, is exactly where copyright can be better than patent law. > It > > is, in this instance, the signal layout on the pin connection that is > > copyrightable. > > You can't copyright anything that isn't material, and that sounds like > something that is not material. Do we honestly have to go down to Her > Majesty's Stationery Office and purchase one copy of the Copyrights, > Designs and Patents Act 1988 c.42 to settle this? > > imc Well a joke is not material, but is still copyrightable. Were do you draw the line? Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:39:37 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <6852e8c4.35714098@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 07:35:50 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1231 Lines: 30 In a message dated 30/05/98 21:29:57, you write: > On Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:41 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > > Can anyone offer any ideas as to how a posting, which on my file is pure > > ascii, can get altered along the way? > > How do you know it is pure ASCII? The only way you can find out is > by trying it on another operating system (DOS might work but I'm not > certain) or by using a hex-dump or similar utility to verify that none > of the characters had the top bit set. I believe the characters you are > looking for are 91 and 92 hex. If you haven't done this then you can't > claim that the file is pure ASCII. > > Anyway, it seems almost certain that the characters were generated before > the message left your computer. Since they are windows-specific quotes > it's unlikely that any other computer is to blame. > > imc I think Bob will find that it is AOL doing it, certainly most inter-aol-user email now contains strange things including font selections, bold and lots of others. But then so does much of the junk mail I receive. In the email in question it looks like ANSI characters to me, which I suppose is the ISO character set someone mentioned. Can't understand it myself. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:39:51 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 07:35:53 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2086 Lines: 60 In a message dated 30/05/98 23:36:52, you write: > > > So there, i have said it. > > You sure did! > > [snip comments about calling Mark Sturdy a liar...] > > > Still you you called him a lair in the first place. You could have > > cancelled that posting within in minutes if you wanted, but you did not. > > You could have emailed him directly, but you did not and had to call him a > > lair in public. And yes please give us some answers > > Mark basically said that Uncle Bob runs West Coast and Revelation. > Bob has said several times in the past that he handles orders for > both of these, and - as Justin has noticed - obviously handles postal > dispatch as well. If I've found the right thing via dejanews, Bob simply corrected Mark for the record. He did ask him to stop telling lies, but that is hardly name calling - nowhere near as bad as the insults that have been hurled at him on this list many times by knowitall kids. > > > I took you out of the filter, but I am not in the mood to answer any of > > your stupid questions or to reply to your downright insulting comments. > > It is not nice to call people nasty names Bob, that is agreed. > People have resorted to doing the same out of frustration. See my comment above. > > > This also goes for your clone Bill. I've answered that stupid comment in a direct email. > > Bill. You have been given numerous requests and offers to prove your > independant existance. If you do, I'm sure we will all appologise > most heartfully. AFAIC there is no need for me to prove my existance to anyone. I am a registered AOL user with email access to an open mailing list. I put my point of view when I want to and try to join in any interesting debates. That should be enough for anyone. > > > Have a nice day > > You too Rob! > > > Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics > > David. > > PS: Much as I share the same deep respect of Bob as I believe he > does of myself, I think Robert has some very good points here. Oh, what were they? I didn't see any. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:54:42 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:44:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <7291b563.357062c2@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 755 Lines: 23 From: > > > >Well strictly speaking you waive the copyright. If you don't waive the > >copyright then you haven't placed the work in the Public Domain, and that's > >that. It's a matter of definition. > >imc > Most things in the PD can be looked on in that way but the originator can, > and often does, still hold copyright. Public Domain covers a multitude of sins > - many of them legal minefields because they are too new to have had test > cases yet. > Bob. No, everything in the 'Public Domain' /should/ be looked on in that way, Just look up the proper definition of PD. If you want to keep the copyright or any rights of some thing you do, then you cannot put it in the Public Domain. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:54:42 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:44:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <919e0863.357061b7@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 638 Lines: 17 From: > >But you're the odd one out here - I don't believe you have any real love > >for the Sam at all. I think you're only sticking around the market at all > >because that's the only place where your money's coming from, and frankly I > > The majority of my money does not come from the SAM world, the I would think > forms only 20-25% now and if anything I have to put money into it to keep it > alive. Does the other 75-80% come from PC Flormat then ?? Did you create PC Flormat because the Sam world is not a very commrcial market, and wasn't bringing in enough to live on? -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 12:54:42 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:44:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <7523f757.35706d26@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id MAA12720 Status: RO Content-Length: 2192 Lines: 63 From: [mail quoting characters] > >goes - it certainly didn't come out correctly at my end... > > Can anyone offer any ideas as to how a posting, which on my file is pure > ascii, can get altered along the way? I know it happened a couple of time when > I was using version 3 of the AOL software but I don;t know how it happens or > where. > Bob. Quite simple, the standard ASCII single quote character is CHR 39 ' The single open and close quote characters at least in Windows Arial font are CHR 145 and 146, which are not ASCII ( > 128) And if you look at the message you sent: From: >Lee. But Lee, if it is a ‘sellable’ product then you have to ask them "why don't you sell it?" The two characters used for quotes are in fact characters 145 & 146 You can check by running Windows Character Map (go to Add/Remove Programs>Windows Setup>Accessories if not installed) Look at Terminal Font, then compare it with Arial Font. In Arial they look like quotes, in Terminal (which is what i've set my reader to) they are the 'ae' and 'AE' characters. But they are definatly not ASCII, hence are not compatable with ALL mail reader software. They work fine if you are using a mail program that is the same font. But since E-mail is a global, platform independent format, they should not be used. > Look, someone complained about some strange characters in a posting, I said > they were ok at my end, you go way over the top throwing insults at me and AOL > when it may not have been either of our faults. Please accept my word that the > strange characters were not in the stream of data sent out by my machine - > where they came from I do not know (and whats more I do not care) it was a > strange X-File type happening, just forget it. Which is one reason a lot of people on this list have had this 'discusion' before, do you now understand why people get a little bit cheesed off with non- conforming software/postings, this may be why i may have gone 'a little bit over the top', they not insults, they are genuine problems. This is not a strange X-File thing, it is reality. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 13:22:57 1998 Message-Id: <199805311218.OAA06572@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: Sam users Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:20:36 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1557 Lines: 43 Putting this to the list, because if my guesses are right than you are Bob and I am really pissed now, these insults have no place in the Sam world and if you think otherwise than you should be banned from this list. ---------- > Van: BillRitman@aol.com > Aan: RJV.Veeke.NL.Sam.Coupe@caiw.nl > Onderwerp: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! > Datum: Sunday, May 31, 1998 1:20 > > In a message dated 30/05/98 22:58:07, you write: > > What the hell has this got to do with SAM-Users? It is not a reply to > something in SAM-Users is it? Nor is it a sensible start to a new thread is > it? That is not for you to decide, if I want to start a new thread than that is my business. You are not in command here. > > I took you out of the filter, but I am not in the mood to answer any of > > your stupid questions or to reply to your downright insulting comments. > > This also goes for your clone Bill. > > You stupid idiotic fool - when will you get it through your thick head that > Bob is Bob, I am Bill, WE ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON. > > THIS HAS BEEN SAID TIME AND TIME AGAIN. WHAT PART OF IT DOES YOUR THICK STUBID > BRAIN HAVE DIFFICULTY IN UNDERSTANDING? THEN PROVE IT, otherwise i will be calling you Bob until the end of times. And if you prove beyond doubt that you are not bob then you will get my apologies. BTW: Prove it to the list they have as much rights to this as I do. -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 13:40:04 1998 Message-Id: <199805311235.OAA09480@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:32:32 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1322 Lines: 35 > Van: BillRitman@aol.com > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! > Datum: Sunday, May 31, 1998 1:35 > > In a message dated 30/05/98 23:36:52, you write: > If I've found the right thing via dejanews, Bob simply corrected Mark for the > record. He did ask him to stop telling lies, but that is hardly name calling - > nowhere near as bad as the insults that have been hurled at him on this list > many times by knowitall kids. Then Bob should have reacted with something like "Mark what youre telling is not right it is ...". There was no reason to say that he should stop telling lies in public. And now we are talking about insults is it not that mr. Pot meets mr. Kettle in this case???? The hardest word I have used here so far is Idiot, but if you want to I can become quite nasty. BTW: why don't ever show up on newsgroups or Dejanews. > AFAIC there is no need for me to prove my existance to anyone. I am a > registered AOL user with email access to an open mailing list. I put my point > of view when I want to and try to join in any interesting debates. That should > be enough for anyone. Then You will be named Bob until the end of times. -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 15:26:34 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199805311235.OAA09480@mailserv.caiw.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:23:56 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3220 Lines: 68 (At 1:32 pm +0100 31/5/98, Robert van der Veeke wrote:) >> Van: BillRitman@aol.com >> If I've found the right thing via dejanews, Bob simply corrected Mark for >the >> record. He did ask him to stop telling lies, but that is hardly name >calling - >> nowhere near as bad as the insults that have been hurled at him on this >list >> many times by knowitall kids. What a surprise! Bill's sticking up for Bob again!! Knowitall kids? That's just such a "Bob" thing to say (pot, kettle, again.) That's your biggest problem - without even reading what other people have written you invariably assume that they're wrong and you're right. Well I'm sorry but the world doesn't work that way and frankly I'm amazed you've lasted this long keeping that attitude. Age has nothing to do with this at all. Calling people kids is, frankly a bit sad and a complete giveaway. As for the "knowitall" bit; compared to Bob at least, most of the people this list really do know it all about the Sam anyway. Apart from that posting on Friday, I've been careful not to call Bob names recently. I've pointed out flaws in his logic and told him when he's wrong, but that's not name calling. Thats not insults. It's just the real world truth. However, what I got back from him was name calling. It was insults. And that's why Bob makes me very angry indeed. I here apologise if my language[1] on Friday offended anybody on this list[2]. But frankly - after a term of trying to be nice to Bob, and having no positive response whatsoever - I just snapped. Especially after being told in no uncertain terms what _I'd_ meant when I'd made a point, by someone who has so clearly shown himself to be a complete dumbo on anything remotely technical. The day he's written one percent of the amount of Sam machine code I have, I might just take him seriously - until then I will not "shut up" just because he says so, because this is certainly not his mailing list and he absolutely does not have the right to come on here and start telling people what to do. >> AFAIC there is no need for me to prove my existance to anyone. I am a >> registered AOL user with email access to an open mailing list. I put my >point >> of view when I want to and try to join in any interesting debates. That >should >> be enough for anyone. If you don't want to prove yourself then that's fine by me. But until then, as far as this mailing list is concerned, you *are* Bob Brenchley posting under a different name. (If I'm wrong, think hard about the damage you're doing to that man's reputation - such as it is) Andrew [1] But I was only telling Bob to make sure all his filesystems were okay [2] Except Bob, naturally. And of course any other names he posts under. -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 15:29:06 1998 Message-Id: <199805311426.PAA15575@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:26:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: To whom it may concern..... In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 382 Lines: 12 > I am sick and tired of you lot and your stupid arguments and petty > squabbling. Grow up and get a life. You and me both. However, no-one's holding a gun to our heads to make us read the list. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 15:44:23 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:40:19 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no, sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: using a monitor on the sam. (fwd) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1293 Lines: 38 At 2:31 pm +0100 2/9/92, Peter Harkess wrote: >*** Forwarded message, originally written by Peter Harkess on 19-May-98 *** > >Hello, > Just a quick question on monitors. > Can i connect a monitor to the sam? >I have a Microvitec-multiscan monitor and i want to connect it to my sam. >the connections are similar or identical to a vga monitor. >Anybody help???? Normally I wouldn't bother answering in a case like this; but here you seem to be getting the impression that everybody's ignoring you, so I'm replying to make sure you're aware that I have indeed read your email. In answer to your question: I don't know. Judging by the lack of other responses, it's probably fair to say that no-one else knows either. There. I've said it now. Interesting question though. Bye, Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 16:06:07 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: P's & Q's! Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:00:49 GMT Message-ID: <35734263.1640144@mail.enterprise.net> References: <19980530213507Z49374-11583+710@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> In-Reply-To: <19980530213507Z49374-11583+710@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 541 Lines: 26 On Sat, 30 May 1998 21:28:17 +0000, David Ledbury at wrote: >Look peeps, Authorative again. :) >I know some members of the list have been getting rather irritated as >of late, with the actions/in-actions of certain parties. My, that sounds business-like. :) >However, is there any way we can refrain from the usage of >profanities on this mailing list? Censorship? >Your co-operation is appreciated. And I thought Frode was the boss around here! Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 16:06:07 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6852e8c4.35714098@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 16:02:13 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1972 Lines: 47 At 12:35 pm +0100 31/5/98, wrote: Not sure why this got through the filter... must fix that. But anyway, by way of a parting shot: >In a message dated 30/05/98 21:29:57, you write: >> Anyway, it seems almost certain that the characters were generated before >> the message left your computer. Since they are windows-specific quotes >> it's unlikely that any other computer is to blame. >> imc > >I think Bob will find that it is AOL doing it, certainly most inter-aol-user >email now contains strange things including font selections, bold and lots of >others. But then so does much of the junk mail I receive. Oh right. So AOL magically adds these codes to the message in transit. Of course. How silly of me to think that they were in there because whoever wrote the message selected "Font" or "Bold" whilst typing it in. I should have guessed. >In the email in question it looks like ANSI characters to me, which I suppose >is the ISO character set someone mentioned. Okay. As an AOL and windows user you're in an ideal position to test this. Examine the quotes in Bob's message, in different fonts if possible, and compare them to " and ' from this message (in the same font). If they do not look like either of those characters " or ', then they are not standard ASCII quote characters. >Can't understand it myself. If you don't understand the conversation, why join in? That's another of Bob's habits you seem to be picking up. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 17:38:10 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 17:34:09 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: References: <3324B4561D6@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <337EE107135@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 702 Lines: 18 > >Public-domain software: >Refers to any program that is not copyrighted. Public-domain software is > >free and can be used without restrictions. The term public-domain software > >is often used incorrectly to include freeware, free software that is > >nevertheless copyrighted. > >Freeware: > >Copyrighted software given away for free by the author. Although it is > >available for free, the author retains the copyright, which means that you > >cannot do anything with it that is not expressly allowed by the author. > >Usually, the author allows people to use the software, but not sell it. > Now can we move on please? > > Andrew OK - I accept that I made a mistake. I take it all back. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 19:42:01 1998 From: Nev Young To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: P's & Q's! Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:36:17 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <35729d87.3814011@post.demon.co.uk> References: <19980530213507Z49374-11583+710@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> In-Reply-To: <19980530213507Z49374-11583+710@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 810 Lines: 24 On Sat, 30 May 1998 21:28:17 +0000, "David Ledbury at" wrote: > However, is there any way we can refrain from the usage of > profanities on this mailing list? > FuckFuck Fuck FuckFuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck FuckFuck hth -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 19:45:52 1998 From: Nev Young To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:36:18 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <35739fc9.4392683@post.demon.co.uk> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 245 Lines: 10 On Sun, 31 May 1998 07:35:53 EDT, wrote: > If I've found the right thing via dejanews, Since when did this mailing list post to Deja News ? -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 19:45:53 1998 From: Nev Young To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:36:15 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <35719b7f.3294506@post.demon.co.uk> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1114 Lines: 31 On Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:41 EDT, wrote: > In a message dated 30/05/98 01:55:59, you(who?) write: > > > >If you use Word and have smart quoting turned on then it will eat all > >your quotes and apostrophes and turn them into unprintable characters > >(like the ones Bob had in his message (YES YOU DID)). It also tends > >to eat sequences of three dots. If you stay away from Word you are > >probably OK. > > > >imc > > I would not touch Word with a barge pole. Most emails are composed direct > using either the AOL email software or the full registered version of Agent. > Some, longer once (not usually the replies) originate in AmiPro - which I > still prefer against any other PC wordprocessor. > Look at the msg in Agent then. If the quotes are looking good then click the Message pull down menu and select the 'show raw message' option. now you'll see the quotes become =91 and =92 [erm that's an equal sign followed by a two digit number 91 or 92] I don't know what type of encoding that is. hth -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 19:52:18 1998 From: Nev Young To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Web ring Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:42:56 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <3574a484.5603604@post.demon.co.uk> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1748 Lines: 62 On Fri, 15 May 1998 8:39:22 +0000, Dan Doore wrote: > > Dunno if it's my system but the webring appears to be broken It's only broken at the persona site now Comon Dave finger out lad ! > > I've had a look and the ring is broken in two places due to peope > pointing to netFUSION instead of webring.org with their HTML code. > > They are: > > Persona (ID7) > Johnna Teare (ID6) > > The correct HTML was mailed to you when you submitted your sites - but > here is a copy: > > Change the site ID for your ID: > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
href="http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=samcoupe;id=7;prev"> > src="http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/coupe/webring/smllarrow.gif" > alt="Previous Site"> > alt="Sam Coupe Web Ring Site List"> href="http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=samcoupe;id=7;next"> > src="http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/coupe/webring/smlrarrow.gif" alt="Next > Site">
>
> > Dan. > > > Work: dan@armature.com > Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk > VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ > > > > > > -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 20:10:12 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35739fc9.4392683@post.demon.co.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:03:17 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 780 Lines: 23 At 7:36 pm +0100 31/5/98, Nev Young wrote: >On Sun, 31 May 1998 07:35:53 EDT, wrote: > >> If I've found the right thing via dejanews, > >Since when did this mailing list post to Deja News ? > Actually, this referred to a posting on comp.sys.sinclair HTH Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From imc Sun May 31 20:39:18 1998 Subject: Re: using a monitor on the sam. (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Peter Harkess at "Sep 2, 92 01:31:20 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:39:18 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 128 Lines: 6 On Wed, 02 Sep 1992 13:31:20 +0000, Peter Harkess said: [something] Blimey, and we thought Dave's clock was a bit wrong. imc From imc Sun May 31 22:05:38 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <35719b7f.3294506@post.demon.co.uk> from Nev Young at "May 31, 98 06:36:15 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:05:38 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 577 Lines: 13 On Sun, 31 May 1998 18:36:15 GMT, Nev Young said: > now you'll see the quotes become =91 and =92 [erm that's an equal sign > followed by a two digit number 91 or 92] > I don't know what type of encoding that is. It's Quoted-Printable format, which is part of MIME, and it only happens when a message containing top-bit-set characters passes through a non-8- bit-clean MTA or if you send it with a MUA that attempts to be "helpful" (like Pine). Fortunately, our local MTA is intelligent enough to reverse the process so I don't get many QP-encoded messages these days. imc From imc Sun May 31 22:08:00 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM In-Reply-To: from BillRitman at "May 31, 98 07:35:49 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:08:00 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 322 Lines: 8 On Sun, 31 May 1998 07:35:49 EDT, BillRitman said: > Well a joke is not material, but is still copyrightable. It becomes material as soon as you write it down or record it on tape. I suspect that expressing it in words using your mouth by a technique commonly known as "speaking" also causes it to become material. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 22:10:58 1998 From: Ian Armstrong Organization: Home Date: 31 May 98 22:01:55 +0100 Subject: Re: using a monitor on the sam. (fwd) Message-Id: <3571D353.MD-0.198.mail01@iarmst.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MicroDot-II/AmigaOS 0.198 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1036 Lines: 28 On Wed, 02 Sep 1992 Peter Harkess wrote: > Just a quick question on monitors. > Can i connect a monitor to the sam? > I have a Microvitec-multiscan monitor and i want to connect it to my sam. > the connections are similar or identical to a vga monitor. > Anybody help???? Assuming the monitor is capable of syncing down to 15KHz then it should be possible. Although it's not quite the same, I've got a small DIY adapter which allows me to use my Playstation (with SCART lead) with my multisync monitor. It uses the R,G,B & composite signal from the SCART. The R,G & B are connected direct to the monitor while the composite goes through a small IC (available from Maplin Electronics) which supplies the separate horizontal & vertical sync signals for the monitor. The IC takes its power from another pin on the SCART (blanking?) I can't remember much more, but it wasn't expensive & was easy to build. If you want some more info just let me know & I'll dig it all out. -- Ian http://www.iarmst.demon.co.uk ICQ #7190975 From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 22:18:35 1998 From: Chris White To: sam-users Subject: Re: using a monitor on the sam. (fwd) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:14:11 +0100 Message-ID: <01bd8cd9$0e924220$70eeb094@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 237 Lines: 10 Ian said: >I can't remember much more, but it wasn't expensive & was easy to >build. If you want some more info just let me know & I'll dig it all >out. > Please Could you dig the info out It would be really usefull to me Chris White From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 22:56:14 1998 From: Maria Rookyard To: sam-users Subject: Re: To whom it may concern..... Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:38:30 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 509 Lines: 21 > > I am sick and tired of you lot and your stupid arguments and petty > > squabbling. Grow up and get a life. > > You and me both. However, no-one's holding a gun to our heads to > make us read the list. > > > Paul Quite right - and once I've sent this I'll be unsubscribing. I'm off somewhere you lot won't find me, where the language and tempers are altogether sweeter. May those of you who deserve it, live a long and happy life :-) Maria Rookyard (former subscriber to sam-users mailing list) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 23:04:09 1998 Message-Id: <199805312158.WAA15811@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:58:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 589 Lines: 17 > Well a joke is not material, but is still copyrightable. Were do you draw the > line? well, you are wrong. a 'joke' per se is about as copyrightable as an 'idea' (ie, not at all). however, the written form of the joke (which just happens to be material, fact fans) IS copyrightable. simply saying the joke is not enough to put it into material form, however, since pressure waves are not copyrightable. however, i presume that taping the spoken joke (or making some other kind of material recording of the joke) is enough to put it into a form that IS copyrightable. hth. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 23:04:09 1998 Message-Id: <199805312200.XAA15907@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:00:18 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: argh! (was Re: get me out of this bad, bad place) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 220 Lines: 14 i'm bored with this list. it's been... real i'm unsubbing just as soon as i've worked out how. ciao fellas. it's been a great 30 months. dave ps - everyone's been great. no hard feelings, except where necessary. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 23:04:11 1998 Message-Id: <199805312201.XAA15962@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:01:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Big lists of games References: In-reply-to: <332AC736892@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 119 Lines: 7 > http://www.jetman.dircon.co.uk/speccy/permits.html that is precisely the one i was talking about! well found dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 23:10:47 1998 Message-Id: <199805312205.XAA30665@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:05:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: To whom it may concern..... In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 407 Lines: 11 > I'm off somewhere you lot won't find me, where the language and tempers are > altogether sweeter. May those of you who deserve it, live a long and happy > life :-) You'd be amazed where we can find, Maria... Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun May 31 23:59:19 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 19:59:30 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Web ring In-reply-to: <3574a484.5603604@post.demon.co.uk> References: Message-Id: <19980531225448Z49380-11583+865@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 243 Lines: 9 > From: Nev Young > > > > Dunno if it's my system but the webring appears to be broken > It's only broken at the persona site now > Comon Dave finger out lad ! I'll get round to it monday. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 00:55:49 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:00:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: using a monitor on the sam. (fwd) In-reply-to: <199805311939.UAA24937@ruby.comlab> References: from Peter Harkess at "Sep 2, 92 01:31:20 pm" Message-Id: <19980531235329Z49380-11583+866@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 421 Lines: 14 > From: Ian Collier > On Wed, 02 Sep 1992 13:31:20 +0000, Peter Harkess said: > [something] > > Blimey, and we thought Dave's clock was a bit wrong. > > imc Think I've fixed it now. /-----------------------------------------------/ \ If you're really desperate... take a look at \ / My web site at www.persona.clara.net/wibble/ / \________________________________________________\ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 01:09:44 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:17:14 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! In-reply-to: <35739fc9.4392683@post.demon.co.uk> References: Message-Id: <19980601000341Z49375-11583+870@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 531 Lines: 15 > From: Nev Young > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! > Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:36:18 GMT > Organization: nfy53 > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Sun, 31 May 98 21:02:04 BST > On Sun, 31 May 1998 07:35:53 EDT, wrote: > > > If I've found the right thing via dejanews, > > Since when did this mailing list post to Deja News ? Nah. He's reffering to a thread on Comp.Sys.Sinclair