From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 03:30:52 1998 Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 01:44:28 GMT Message-ID: <1079_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> From: James@lhutz.demon.co.uk (James R Curry) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: OASIS Post Box (Atari) v1.31E Subject: RE: The SAM X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 712 Lines: 29 OASIS_E-Mail: "Matthew Craven" wrote:- >> > I didn't know that you could do that for Mathematical Algorithms. >> >> In the USA, you can. Which is why all the furore happened over the LZW >> compression algorithm used in the GIF format. > >Wow. > >MJC. Is not the formula used to generate VideoPlus (tm) codes copyrighted, as well? I believe it is... __ James R Curry - James@lhutz.demon.co.uk "You're missing the point! The individual doesn't matter. It was a team effort, and I was the one who came up with the whole team idea...me!" - Homer Simpson, The Simpsons. Please insert meaningless promise about The Official James R Curry web page here... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 03:30:52 1998 Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 01:58:22 GMT Message-ID: <1081_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> From: James@lhutz.demon.co.uk (James R Curry) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: OASIS Post Box (Atari) v1.31E Subject: Re: To whom it may concern.... X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1006 Lines: 35 OASIS_E-Mail: "Maria Rookyard" wrote:- >Quite right - and once I've sent this I'll be unsubscribing. > >I'm off somewhere you lot won't find me, where the language and tempers are >altogether sweeter. May those of you who deserve it, live a long and happy >life :-) > >Maria Rookyard >(former subscriber to sam-users mailing list) *sighs* - so we lose another one. Is it my imagination or is it going to get to the point that the only people left will be Andrew and Bob, and they'll both be posting and posting and posting, but never reading any replies as they have each other kill-filed? And if that *did* happen, would they even notice? ;-) __ James R Curry - James@lhutz.demon.co.uk "You're missing the point! The individual doesn't matter. It was a team effort, and I was the one who came up with the whole team idea...me!" - Homer Simpson, The Simpsons. Please insert meaningless promise about The Official James R Curry web page here... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 03:30:52 1998 Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 02:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <1082_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> From: James@lhutz.demon.co.uk (James R Curry) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: OASIS Post Box (Atari) v1.31E Subject: Re: argh! (was Re: get me out of t X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 708 Lines: 38 In E-Mail <199805312200.XAA15907@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> "Dave Hooper" <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> wrote:- >i'm bored with this list. > >it's been... real > > >i'm unsubbing just as soon as i've worked out how. >ciao fellas. it's been a great 30 months. > > > >dave > > >ps - everyone's been great. no hard feelings, except where necessary. > > Oh, dammit. And there goes another. __ James R Curry - James@lhutz.demon.co.uk "You're missing the point! The individual doesn't matter. It was a team effort, and I was the one who came up with the whole team idea...me!" - Homer Simpson, The Simpsons. Please insert meaningless promise about The Official James R Curry web page here... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 03:41:55 1998 Message-ID: <35721393.17949939@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 03:36:03 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: argh! (was Re: get me out of t References: <1082_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 777 Lines: 21 James R Curry wrote: > Oh, dammit. > > And there goes another. > > __ > > James R Curry - James@lhutz.demon.co.uk I've come to the conclusion that a certain person is being so deliberately, so un-subtley (if there is such a word) disruptive, argumentative, and down right bloody rude, on purpose. Perhaps they are trying to kill the list. I've yet to figure out why, but a good motive might be "Hang on - I can't control this list the way I can control Format - so I'll fscking annoy the crap out of everyone until the list is dead". I think I'll get an early night... -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 08:49:01 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <79193651.356ec664@aol.com> <199805291749.SAA03567@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> <3570fe02.26305150@mail.enterprise.net> <35761590.32335560@mail.enterprise.net> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 01 Jun 1998 08:44:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: davewhitmore@enterprise.net's message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 20:18:09 GMT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 381 Lines: 14 davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) writes: > On 29 May 1998 20:35:51 +0100, The Giggler wrote: > > 'Cains Formidable Ale' fresh from Asda's shelves. Tastes like piss at > first, but it's brewed in Liverpool... So that's why they're such > argumentative aggresive gits... what a revelation. I could take offense at that .... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 08:49:01 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <000401bd8b2b$cd137160$1f38accf@default> <19980529202510Z49270-11583+535@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 01 Jun 1998 08:45:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: "David Ledbury at"'s message of "Wed, 27 May 1998 20:18:22 +0000" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 403 Lines: 15 "David Ledbury at" writes: > Yes. But I think you'll find it belongs to someone. And doing that > sort of thing is called piracy. > > It's bloody stupid - not very nice. Unless he was enquiring how to get his own copy to run under SimCoupe in which case there'd be nothing wrong with it at all .... I doubt it though ;) Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 08:53:09 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <3f3c569e.356f362c@aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 01 Jun 1998 08:48:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: 's message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:50 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 422 Lines: 15 writes: > In a message dated 29/05/98 19:36:43, you write: > > I stopped using version 3 of AOL's software because that sometimes added > strange characters - but I've never known version 2 to do so. Well it does, at which point I rest my case re: AOL software ... any product for which you have to downgrade to improve its usability sucks... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 09:00:10 1998 Message-ID: <01c001bd8d32$6c378120$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Traffic Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:53:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 374 Lines: 19 Whooo! I'm back from a weekend in London... and what do I find? 139 mails from sam-users! Wheehee! The list is getting sufficient traffic now for _three_ different lists: sam-users-bob sam-users-not-bob sam-users-flame-bob Can I suggest this is implemented immediately? :) DMZ --- PS. Bob, don't you think the rest of the world is trying to tell you something? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 09:05:09 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM References: <199805312158.WAA15811@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 01 Jun 1998 09:00:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Dave Hooper"'s message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 22:58:05 +0000" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 560 Lines: 18 "Dave Hooper" <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> writes: > > Well a joke is not material, but is still copyrightable. Were do you draw the > > line? > > well, you are wrong. a 'joke' per se is about as copyrightable as an > 'idea' (ie, not at all). > however, the written form of the joke (which just happens to be > material, fact fans) IS copyrightable. I think the key phrase is 'Tangible Form'. Ie something must be in a 'tangible form' to be copyrighted, that's certainly the case with music anyway ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From imc Mon Jun 1 10:40:57 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:40:57 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <1079_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> from "James R Curry" at Jun 1, 98 01:44:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 366 Lines: 10 On Mon, 1 Jun 98 01:44:28 GMT, James R Curry said: > >> In the USA, you can. Which is why all the furore happened over the LZW > >> compression algorithm used in the GIF format. > Is not the formula used to generate VideoPlus (tm) codes copyrighted, as > well? I believe it is... No, you can't copyright a formula. You can patent it (in the USA), though. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 10:56:15 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:21 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 302 Lines: 12 In a message dated 30/05/98 21:29:57, you write: >On Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:41 EDT, BrenchleyR said: >> Can anyone offer any ideas as to how a posting, which on my file is pure >> ascii, can get altered along the way? > >How do you know it is pure ASCII? Because I checked it of course. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 10:56:17 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:22 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1181 Lines: 29 In a message dated 30/05/98 21:56:52, you write: > >If this is the case then why are you so against making the Tech Manual >available ?? Surely it would do more good to the obviously (as far as you are >concerned because I don't know about other companies) dead sam market to >release such things that may help 'revive' the Sam market and maybe even get >some new people interested in the machine. Maybe it's just me but it seems >like a good idea to try and keep the current sam community going for as long >as possible. If you could get more people interested in the sam then maybe >you could sell more of your magazines ?? I do not consider the SAM market to be dead, although it does appear that some people around here do. What it comes down to is this - why stop selling something that is selling and make it available free to people? It would mean that there was less available to invest in other projects. Without money, how do you expect new things to appear for SAM? > >But then you're never going to listen to someone who obviously has not got as >much business experience as you though so why the hell did I bother writing >this!! > >Neil Maynard -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 10:56:17 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <95a072b8.35727745@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:24 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1047 Lines: 32 In a message dated 30/05/98 22:45:16, you write: >> Where is the list of companies that has released their titles? > >I saw one a while back but it was very very long. I guess the other >guy made up the list of companies that have NOT released their stuff >to address this very issue. > >> I've not found one. > >I'm pretty sure I have. I'll have another quick trawl, maybe. > >> I've not looked closely at NVG but I've certainly come across titles on >> the net that I know for a fact are not PD. > >Such as? Well I certainly know that there are several titles marketed via Mastertronic which neither I or the programmers have ever waved copyright on. I have not looked for around 12 months, but imagine that they are still there. Also found other titles on different sites but I have not kept a list, when I have time I will trawl the net again. > >> Something has to be placed into the public domain, not kept out of it. If >in doubt, it is not PD. > >this is, of course, totally true, and not something i ever disputed. > >dave -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 10:56:18 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:25 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 277 Lines: 14 In a message dated 31/05/98 11:40:17, you write: >. > >Try asking AOL technical, always found them very helpfull at explaining my >problems. > >Bill. That goes without saying Bill. But their answer is 'upgrade to version 3' which I know would cause more problems. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 10:56:19 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <55069238.35727748@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:27 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 703 Lines: 18 In a message dated 31/05/98 12:40:46, you write: >. > >Then Bob should have reacted with something like "Mark what youre telling >is not right it is ...". There was no reason to say that he should stop >telling lies in public. And now we are talking about insults is it not that >mr. Pot meets mr. Kettle in this case???? The hardest word I have used here >so far is Idiot, but if you want to I can become quite nasty. BTW: why >don't ever show up on newsgroups or Dejanews. > I have already appologised to Mark for the wording. It is none of your business, it is nothing to do with SAM Users it relates to Comp.sys.sinclair, it is just another example of how pathetic some people can be. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 10:56:21 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <97b098bc.35727742@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:20 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1532 Lines: 43 In a message dated 30/05/98 21:27:25, you write: >On Sat, 30 May 1998 15:49:21 EDT, BrenchleyR said: >> >Well strictly speaking you waive the copyright. If you don't waive the >> >copyright then you haven't placed the work in the Public Domain, and >that's >> >that. It's a matter of definition. > >> Most things in the PD can be looked on in that way but the originator can, >> and often does, still hold copyright. > >No. No waived copyright -> no public domain. > >> Public Domain covers a multitude of >sins >> - many of them legal minefields because they are too new to have had test >> cases yet. > >Many people use the words "public domain" for various different things. >That does not mean they are right. The legal definition of "public domain" >is something which is free from copyright. I just checked my dictionary and >it agrees with me. > >imc Author gives up copyright = Public Domain in all cases. Public Domain /= No copyright in every case. And in computer software the whole thing gets even more complicated. In general. PD means it can be freely distributed as long as it is not for gain. In almost all cases the author/programmer will at least retain the rights to be identified with his work and (if he allows it) any derivative thereof. Freeware, Shareware, Post-card-ware, Book-ware, Joke-ware and lots of others (I've even come across 'smile-ware') all allow free distribution but not necessarily free use beyond an initial testing period. HTH. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 10:56:22 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:26 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: How dare you repost a private email. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 794 Lines: 21 In a message dated 31/05/98 12:23:45, you write: >) > >Putting this to the list, because if my guesses are right than you are Bob >and I am really pissed now, these insults have no place in the Sam world >and if you think otherwise than you should be banned from this list. This is just about the limit. I have to but up with the crap from some people on this list and their pathetic attempts to say that anyone who agrees with me must be a 'clone'. But for someone to stoop low enough to post a copy of a private email from another SAM user - just to get in another pathetic attempt to say that the writer is me is just beyond belief. I think that you own Bill Ritman a serious appology for flouting one of the cardinal rules of email. Now take your stupid ideas and clear off. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 10:56:22 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <98b0c9b9.35727836@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:45:25 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 883 Lines: 32 In a message dated 31/05/98 22:05:09, you write: >> Well a joke is not material, but is still copyrightable. Were do you draw >the >> line? > >well, you are wrong. a 'joke' per se is about as copyrightable as an >'idea' (ie, not at all). Wrong. How do you think a lot of people make a living out of writing jokes if they are not copyrightable. >however, the written form of the joke (which just happens to be >material, fact fans) IS copyrightable. No, it is the joke itself - it does not have to be written down (except for some reason inthe USA). > >simply saying the joke is not enough to put it into material form, >however, since pressure waves are not copyrightable. however, i >presume that taping the spoken joke (or making some other kind of >material recording of the joke) is enough to put it into a form that >IS copyrightable. > >hth. > >dave HTH. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 10:56:23 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:48:43 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 513 Lines: 19 In a message dated 01/06/98 07:53:45, you write: > writes: > >> In a message dated 29/05/98 19:36:43, you write: >> >> I stopped using version 3 of AOL's software because that sometimes added >> strange characters - but I've never known version 2 to do so. > >Well it does, at which point I rest my case re: AOL software ... any >product for which you have to downgrade to improve its usability >sucks... > >Lee. Just like Windoze '95 and most other Microsloth products then :) -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 11:17:45 1998 Message-ID: <020601bd8d44$e6e064c0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:05:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 252 Lines: 12 >I think that you own Bill Ritman a serious appology for flouting one of the >cardinal rules of email. > >Now take your stupid ideas and clear off. Don't you think this should be for Bill to decide, rather than you, Bob? Oh, I forgot...... DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 11:17:54 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256616.0035F400.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:14:43 +0100 Subject: Re: The SAM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1324 Lines: 42 >>> > still doing the same job, but the closeness or otherwise to the >>> > original could >>> > lead to an infringement of copyright. >>> >>> I don't think copyright would apply on such a simple interface as the 256k >>> board. Anyone with any electronics knowledge could design one with one hand >>> behind their back, from only the pinout of the socket. >>> >> >>I agree, like you say there is only really one way to connect memory chips to >> >>the pin-outs off the memory upgrade connector. >> >>I'd love to see Bob try to take someone to court for designing and building >>there >>own mem upgrade, it'd stand no, chance, espesially with the lack of demand >>for the item, not very commecial now is it. > >If someone build something for their own use then there can be no problem, but >if they build it for someone else - that is a different matter Bob, Just sue them for breech of copyright, then. It's "obvious" that you're in the right and all of us is wrong. And it's obvious no-one here is going to listen to you even if you begged and paid us to by lining up a lot of attractive women brainwashed to be our long-term girlfriends. So, my friend, the solution is obvious (for want of a non-repeated word): Sue the pants of everyone on the list. And once you're done, let me know just how far you get. Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 11:36:03 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 01 Jun 1998 11:31:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: 's message of "Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:48:43 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 177 Lines: 10 writes: > Just like Windoze '95 and most other Microsloth products then :) Not to mention Netrape ? Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 11:41:54 1998 Message-Id: <9806011037.AA27909@mars.cableol.net> From: Neil Maynard To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:36:57 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1290 Lines: 30 On 1 Jun 98 at 5:41, BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 30/05/98 21:56:52, you write: > > > > > >If this is the case then why are you so against making the Tech Manual > >available ?? Surely it would do more good to the obviously (as far as you are > >concerned because I don't know about other companies) dead sam market to > >release such things that may help 'revive' the Sam market and maybe even get > >some new people interested in the machine. Maybe it's just me but it seems > >like a good idea to try and keep the current sam community going for as long > >as possible. If you could get more people interested in the sam then maybe > >you could sell more of your magazines ?? > > I do not consider the SAM market to be dead, although it does appear that some > people around here do. > > What it comes down to is this - why stop selling something that is selling and > make it available free to people? It would mean that there was less available > to invest in other projects. Without money, how do you expect new things to > appear for SAM? > New things appear - Yeah, that happens all the time doesn't it!!. Face it Bob the sam market is dead except for some die hard fans (Such as the people on this list that you continue to annoy) Neil Maynard From imc Mon Jun 1 11:43:37 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:43:37 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <97b098bc.35727742@aol.com> from "BrenchleyR" at Jun 1, 98 05:41:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1512 Lines: 40 On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:20 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > In a message dated 30/05/98 21:27:25, you write: > >Many people use the words "public domain" for various different things. > >That does not mean they are right. The legal definition of "public domain" > >is something which is free from copyright. I just checked my dictionary and > >it agrees with me. > Author gives up copyright = Public Domain in all cases. > Public Domain /= No copyright in every case. > In general. PD means it can be freely distributed as long as it is not for > gain. In almost all cases the author/programmer will at least retain the > rights to be identified with his work and (if he allows it) any derivative > thereof. AAAARRRGGGHHHHH! Why do you keep contradicting the *facts* I post? THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF "PUBLIC DOMAIN" IS SOMETHING WHICH IS FREE FROM COPYRIGHT. A dictionary definition from the web has already been posted to this effect. If you want to convince anyone otherwise you'll have to find an authoritative reference. Here's another one, from the Hacker's Dictionary (aka the jargon file). Take notice of the second sentence. http://www.mcfedries.com/jargon/jargon_31.html#TAG1342 PD Common abbreviation for `public domain', applied to software distributed over Usenet and from Internet archive sites. Much of this software is not in fact public domain in the legal sense but travels under various copyrights granting reproduction and use rights to anyone who can snarf a copy. See copyleft. imc From imc Mon Jun 1 11:44:11 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:44:11 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "BrenchleyR" at Jun 1, 98 05:41:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 135 Lines: 8 On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:21 EDT, BrenchleyR said: > >How do you know it is pure ASCII? > Because I checked it of course. How? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 11:52:52 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <199805300029.BAA14970@ruby.comlab> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 01 Jun 1998 11:47:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: Ian Collier's message of "Sat, 30 May 1998 01:29:17 +0100 (BST)" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 965 Lines: 25 Ian Collier writes: > On 29 May 1998 20:35:51 +0100, The Giggler said: > > Bob: > > Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > This is non-portable-ish ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > No it's reasonably portable, so long as the mail actually contains > characters only from ISO-8859-1, which it didn't. Since it's told you what > character set it's using your software could go and use an appropriate font. > ISO-8859-1 is a rather common standard so it ought to be available. Yep my mail reader does support the ISO-8859-1 set but as you said the /221 and /222 values in Bob's post are not defined in ISO-8859-1 (I could quote it if you really wanted ...) and as such my MUA has every write to not display them ;) Just out of interest Bob what were the characters meant to be and then we might be able to help you as to where they came from (It's the characters around sellable ...) Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 12:04:38 1998 Message-ID: <357288CF.BD126E87@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 11:56:15 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM References: <80256616.0035F400.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 791 Lines: 19 Justin_Skists@case.co.uk wrote: > Just sue them for breech of copyright, then. It's "obvious" that > you're in the right and all of us is wrong. And it's obvious no-one > here is going to listen to you even if you begged and paid us to by > lining up a lot of attractive women brainwashed to be our long-term > girlfriends. Already got one thanks ;) > So, my friend, the solution is obvious (for want of a non-repeated word): > Sue the pants of everyone on the list. And while you're in court Bob, let me know, I and a few others, have a few things to entertain you in court over. -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 12:52:03 1998 Message-Id: <199806011144.NAA05344@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:43:47 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1695 Lines: 49 > Van: BrenchleyR@aol.com > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: How dare you repost a private email. > Datum: Monday, June 01, 1998 11:41 > > In a message dated 31/05/98 12:23:45, you write: > > >) > > > >Putting this to the list, because if my guesses are right than you are Bob > >and I am really pissed now, these insults have no place in the Sam world > >and if you think otherwise than you should be banned from this list. > > This is just about the limit. I have to but up with the crap from some people > on this list and their pathetic attempts to say that anyone who agrees with me > must be a 'clone'. But for someone to stoop low enough to post a copy of a > private email from another SAM user - just to get in another pathetic attempt > to say that the writer is me is just beyond belief. It certainly is the limit, but in this case I don't give a damn, we don't have to be put with your crap either. As for pathetic, hello mr. kettle. glad we are on the same heights now. > I think that you own Bill Ritman a serious appology for flouting one of the > cardinal rules of email. I think mr. Ritman can ask that himself, and if he can prove beyond doubt to this list that he is Bill Ritman then he will get my excuses and will than also make my apologies to the list for this behaviour. But i still think that will never come. If he is Bill than he could have proved it months ago. As for cardinal rules of email, you know all about it, right?? again hello mr. kettle. > Now take your stupid ideas and clear off. Not, definitly not -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 14:28:46 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <40f0e641.3572a872@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:11:13 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 494 Lines: 23 In a message dated 01/06/98 10:09:19, you write: > >>I think that you own Bill Ritman a serious appology for flouting one of the >>cardinal rules of email. >> >>Now take your stupid ideas and clear off. > > >Don't you think this should be for Bill to decide, rather than you, Bob? >Oh, I forgot...... > >DMZ I hope that he, and every other reader of this mailing list will condem the posting. But as my name was invoked, I just happened to get in first. And what did you forget? -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 14:28:47 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:14:12 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 420 Lines: 16 In a message dated 01/06/98 10:42:55, you write: > > >New things appear - Yeah, that happens all the time doesn't it!!. >Face it Bob the sam market is dead except for some die hard fans >(Such as the people on this list that you continue to annoy) > > >Neil Maynard And all the SAM owners who are members of INDUG or read Fred and SAM Suppliment - quite a considerable number. Try telling them its dead. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 14:28:49 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <5f27ecc2.3572a9a0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:16:14 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 246 Lines: 15 In a message dated 01/06/98 11:05:49, you write: >On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:41:21 EDT, BrenchleyR said: >> >How do you know it is pure ASCII? > >> Because I checked it of course. > >How? > >imc LIST, XTREE, PEEPER - to name but three. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 14:28:50 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:18:18 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 355 Lines: 15 In a message dated 01/06/98 11:05:51, you write: >) > >Just out of interest Bob what were the characters meant to be and then >we might be able to help you as to where they came from (It's the >characters around sellable ...) > >Lee. Although I do not have the posting to hand at the mo, I would imagine I enclosed the word in single quotes. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 14:28:51 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <14dc5c24.3572aab4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:20:51 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 440 Lines: 22 In a message dated 01/06/98 12:14:20, you write: >. > >> Now take your stupid ideas and clear off. > >Not, definitly not > > -- >Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics >[rjvveeke@caiw.nl] >Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. Then I will treat you like the total plonker that you are ** PLONK ** Now rot in the killfile for a few months until you learn a little respect for other people. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 14:28:52 1998 Message-ID: <001201bd8d60$3c8703a0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:21:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 291 Lines: 13 >But as my name was invoked, I just happened to get in first. > >And what did you forget? So obviously flame-bait. I've given up. There's far too much crap filling up my mailbox at the moment, so congratulations, Bob, you're the _first person_ to ever be added to my killfile... DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 14:28:54 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01c001bd8d32$6c378120$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:24:54 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Traffic X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 929 Lines: 28 At 8:53 am +0100 1/6/98, DMZ wrote: >The list is getting sufficient traffic now for _three_ different >lists: > >sam-users-bob >sam-users-not-bob >sam-users-flame-bob > >Can I suggest this is implemented immediately? :) What would be the difference between sam-users-bob and sam-users-flame-bob? >PS. Bob, don't you think the rest of the world is trying to tell > you something? No, because he's killfiled half of it. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 14:35:40 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <020601bd8d44$e6e064c0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:29:53 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 938 Lines: 23 At 11:05 am +0100 1/6/98, Dave wrote: >>I think that you own Bill Ritman a serious appology for flouting one of the >>cardinal rules of email. >> >>Now take your stupid ideas and clear off. > >Don't you think this should be for Bill to decide, rather than you, Bob? >Oh, I forgot...... I would suggest that Robert apologize to Bill over the telephone.... if Bill actually cares about this, then surely he'd reveal his number. Surely? Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 14:43:46 1998 Message-ID: <008701bd8d62$63b416a0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:36:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 478 Lines: 15 >I would suggest that Robert apologize to Bill over the telephone.... if >Bill actually cares about this, then surely he'd reveal his number. Surely? > >Andrew He could always 1471 it. Phone number anonymity assured, and anyone can tell from the voice that it's not Bob. Unless you get a muffled, gruff or squeaky totally unconvincing voice, that is... Apologies in advance for all on the list with natural muffled, gruff or squeaky totally unconvincing voices.. :) DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 14:45:16 1998 Message-ID: <008c01bd8d62$df3a6720$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:40:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 62 Lines: 7 >He could always 1471 it. Sorry, I meant 141... :) DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 14:47:55 1998 Message-Id: <199806011344.PAA26507@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:46:09 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 559 Lines: 21 > Van: BrenchleyR@aol.com > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: How dare you repost a private email. > Datum: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:20 > > In a message dated 01/06/98 12:14:20, you write: > Then I will treat you like the total plonker that you are > > ** PLONK ** > > Now rot in the killfile for a few months until you learn a little respect for > other people. Make that permanent in the killfile for me. -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 15:04:43 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <80256616.0035F400.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:59:33 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: The SAM X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1776 Lines: 38 At 11:14 am +0100 1/6/98, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk wrote: >Just sue them for breech of copyright, then. It's "obvious" that you're in >the right and all of us is wrong. And it's obvious no-one here is going >to listen to you even if you begged and paid us to by lining up a lot of >attractive women brainwashed to be our long-term girlfriends. No no no - you misunderstand. I want to point out that, contrary to popular belief I don't argue with Bob just for the sheer "fun" of it. I do just like to see that infomation available from the mailing list is correct, honest and true. I would also like to see people doing their best to keep the Sam alive. Lying about rival companies, posting from multiple addresses, wordplaying, disputing documented facts, bossing people around, being Right because you're old and calling everyone else stupid - in my opinion - do not come under that heading. I do listen to him (or at least, did until Friday) and if he were ever correct[1], I would agree with him. If he didn't post I wouldn't need to argue with him; but none of that ever seems to happen... Andrew [1] correct IMHO, I suppose. But if anyone does want to take issue with that, please first find an example on this list of Bob contradicting me and proving himself correct. -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 15:21:32 1998 Message-ID: <3572B7A8.FD7B59A8@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:16:08 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. References: <14dc5c24.3572aab4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 722 Lines: 21 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > Then I will treat you like the total plonker that you are > > ** PLONK ** > > Now rot in the killfile for a few months until you learn a little respect for > other people. > > -- > Bob. As I said yesterday, it's becoming clear that Bob is deliberately trying to wreck this list. He is always telling us how we are kids and he is right just because he is old. Well maybe it's time we started treating him like the kid he is - can the list owner please remove him before there is no list? -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 15:21:33 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256616.004EBAC8.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:21:33 +0100 Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 180 Lines: 8 >Now rot in the killfile for a few months until you learn a little respect for >other people. Just out of curiousity, is there anyone here that ISN'T in Bob's killfile? Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 15:21:34 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9806011037.AA27909@mars.cableol.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:17:22 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1971 Lines: 46 >On 1 Jun 98 at 5:41, BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: >> What it comes down to is this - why stop selling something that is >>selling and >> make it available free to people? It would mean that there was less >>available >> to invest in other projects. Shock horror - I actually agree with this point. In fact, precisely this issue was raised when the topic first came up weeks ago, and if I remember correctly the general consensus was that most of the people who expressed an opinion would also agree. BUT _Is_ the technical manual really selling? And that means not "is the technical manual currently for sale" but "are people buying it?" Many people, myself included, suspect that the answer is probably not. If someone wants it they probably have it already. But Bob has refused to give us a definite answer to that question. Instead he's managed to sidetrack the discussion to such an extent that most people here have forgotten what we were originally talking about... To summarize, Bob: Nobody is trying to take away your income from the technical manual. But if there is no substantial amount of income, we believe that it would attract new programmers and hence benefit the Sam (and thus increase your income in other areas) if the technical documentation were, legally and officially with permission, made available online at no charge. But I suspect I'm killfiled. So the probability of having a rational discussion with Bob tends even further to zero. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 18:22:24 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:13:09 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd8d80$8cb14500$0838accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <97b098bc.35727742@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1454 Lines: 36 > >Many people use the words "public domain" for various different things. > >That does not mean they are right. The legal definition of > "public domain" > >is something which is free from copyright. I just checked my > dictionary and > >it agrees with me. > > > >imc > > Author gives up copyright = Public Domain in all cases. > Public Domain /= No copyright in every case. > > And in computer software the whole thing gets even more complicated. > > In general. PD means it can be freely distributed as long as it is not for > gain. In almost all cases the author/programmer will at least retain the > rights to be identified with his work and (if he allows it) any derivative > thereof. > > Freeware, Shareware, Post-card-ware, Book-ware, Joke-ware and > lots of others > (I've even come across 'smile-ware') all allow free distribution but not > necessarily free use beyond an initial testing period. Bob, while the PD software business may use PD to mean a different thing depending on the phase of the moon, Public Domain literally means that it is the property of the public. For example, an author's work, 50 years after their death, automatically becomes public domain. Copyright does not apply to public domain material of any kind. If anyone says otherwise, it is *not* public domain. BTW: AFAIK, the right to be identified with the work & derivatives is indeed a property of public domain material, but copyright does not apply. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 18:22:24 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: How dare you repost a private email. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:13:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd8d80$8e11bf60$0838accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <020601bd8d44$e6e064c0$f03ca8c0@daves-pc.orctel.internal> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 638 Lines: 25 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no [mailto:owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no]On > Behalf Of Dave > Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 6:06 AM > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. > > > >I think that you own Bill Ritman a serious appology for flouting > one of the > >cardinal rules of email. > > > >Now take your stupid ideas and clear off. > > > Don't you think this should be for Bill to decide, rather than you, Bob? > Oh, I forgot...... Doesn't matter... at this rate, the number of users subscribed to sam-users will have dropped to about 8 in a matter of days. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 18:56:36 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:18:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bd8d81$43edd6c0$0838accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 797 Lines: 19 > To summarize, Bob: Nobody is trying to take away your income from the > technical manual. But if there is no substantial amount of income, we > believe that it would attract new programmers and hence benefit the Sam > (and thus increase your income in other areas) if the technical > documentation were, legally and officially with permission, made available > online at no charge. > > But I suspect I'm killfiled. So the probability of having a rational > discussion with Bob tends even further to zero. > > Andrew Who cares. First section of the Unofficial SAM Coupe Technical Manual (on memory management and handling), will be up real soon now (ie just as soon as I bring the tech manual into the office, so I can be sure that I've got my bits in the right bits of the right byte). Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 18:56:36 1998 Message-ID: <3572E8B2.C76B7FA7@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:45:23 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <000201bd8d81$43edd6c0$0838accf@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 663 Lines: 17 Simon Cooke wrote: > Who cares. First section of the Unofficial SAM Coupe Technical Manual (on > memory management and handling), will be up real soon now (ie just as soon > as I bring the tech manual into the office, so I can be sure that I've got > my bits in the right bits of the right byte). > > Simon Yay!!! Good man Simon, looking forward to it :) (I want a tech manual, but hardly going to send Bob anymore money, am I know? Refund please Bobby? :) -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 19:05:36 1998 Message-ID: <3572EB3B.FCFA790F@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:56:11 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. References: <000201bd8d81$43edd6c0$0838accf@default> <3572E8B2.C76B7FA7@purple.dircon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 568 Lines: 15 Gavin Smith wrote: > Yay!!! Good man Simon, looking forward to it :) (I want a tech manual, > but hardly going to send Bob anymore money, am I know? Refund please > Bobby? :) God! Did I really say "am I know?" My English must be going downhill fast reading this list ;) BTW, what format will the manual take Simon? Word document, textfile, PDF file, webpage etc? -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 19:05:36 1998 Message-ID: <35734CFE.4F82@postmaster.co.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:53:18 -0700 From: David Ledbury Organization: The Foundation for Green Eggs & Ham X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. References: <14dc5c24.3572aab4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 298 Lines: 17 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > > Then I will treat you like the total plonker that you are Pot, Kettle, Black! > ** PLONK ** > > Now rot in the killfile for a few months until you learn a little respect for > other people. Don't fret... the company in there is very good :) > -- > Bob. David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 19:15:23 1998 Message-Id: <9806011810.AA02292@mars.cableol.net> From: Neil Maynard To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:14:39 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. In-Reply-To: <35734CFE.4F82@postmaster.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 187 Lines: 10 On 1 Jun 98, at 17:53, David Ledbury wrote: > BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > > > > Then I will treat you like the total plonker that you are > > Pot, Kettle, Black! > Very good dave!! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 19:15:23 1998 Message-Id: <9806011810.AA06271@mars.cableol.net> From: Neil Maynard To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:14:39 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Unoffical Tech Manual (was Re: INDUG and the Internet.) In-Reply-To: <3572EB3B.FCFA790F@purple.dircon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 567 Lines: 21 On 1 Jun 98, at 18:56, Gavin Smith wrote: > Gavin Smith wrote: > > > Yay!!! Good man Simon, looking forward to it :) (I want a tech manual, > > but hardly going to send Bob anymore money, am I know? Refund please > > Bobby? :) > > God! Did I really say "am I know?" My English must be going downhill > fast reading this list ;) > BTW, what format will the manual take Simon? Word document, textfile, > PDF file, webpage etc? > Yeo you did gav!! Anyway I vote for PDF as it can produce very nice looking documents Anyone got any other comments ?? Neil Maynard From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 19:23:03 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:11:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. In-reply-to: <9806011810.AA02292@mars.cableol.net> References: <35734CFE.4F82@postmaster.co.uk> Message-Id: <19980601181816Z49382-29866+162@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 521 Lines: 19 > From: "Neil Maynard" > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:14:39 +0100 > Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 19:16:30 BST > On 1 Jun 98, at 17:53, David Ledbury wrote: > > > BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Then I will treat you like the total plonker that you are > > > > Pot, Kettle, Black! > > > > Very good dave!! > Unfortunately not original. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 19:34:24 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:24:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bd8d8a$7a1f0b20$0838accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <3572EB3B.FCFA790F@purple.dircon.co.uk> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 718 Lines: 25 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no [mailto:owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no]On > Behalf Of Gavin Smith > Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 1:56 PM > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. > > > Gavin Smith wrote: > > > Yay!!! Good man Simon, looking forward to it :) (I want a tech manual, > > but hardly going to send Bob anymore money, am I know? Refund please > > Bobby? :) > > God! Did I really say "am I know?" My English must be going downhill > fast reading this list ;) > BTW, what format will the manual take Simon? Word document, textfile, > PDF file, webpage etc? Word document at first; other formats later. RTF format will be up there too, probably. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 19:34:24 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Unoffical Tech Manual (was Re: INDUG and the Internet.) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:24:48 -0400 Message-ID: <000601bd8d8a$8f0ae0e0$0838accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <9806011810.AA06271@mars.cableol.net> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 208 Lines: 9 > Yeo you did gav!! > > Anyway I vote for PDF as it can produce very nice looking documents > > Anyone got any other comments ?? Yeah... "Do you *know* how *much* Acrobat Distiller costs? Criminy!" Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 20:59:40 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <452eee3b.35730491@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:16 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 568 Lines: 18 In a message dated 31/05/98 15:02:51, you write: > > >Can't understand it myself. > > If you don't understand the conversation, why join in? That's another of > Bob's habits you seem to be picking up. > > Andrew > Do you have to be so annoying? I said that I could not understand how the strange codes got in there - not that I did not understand the conversation. >From memory it seems that you misunderstand far more conversions than anyone. Please, unless you have something interesting to add to the subject, let this be an end to the matter. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 20:59:40 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:20 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 571 Lines: 20 In a message dated 01/06/98 11:05:48, you write: > > Why do you keep contradicting the *facts* I post? > > THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF "PUBLIC DOMAIN" IS SOMETHING WHICH IS FREE FROM > COPYRIGHT. > > A dictionary definition from the web has already been posted to this effect. > If you want to convince anyone otherwise you'll have to find an > authoritative > reference. Just looked it up in the OED where is says that it is something belonging to the public as a whole, especially something that is not copyright. Just thought I would throw that in. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 20:59:41 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <119fa5a7.35730496@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:21 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 623 Lines: 21 In a message dated 01/06/98 13:35:50, you write: > > At 11:05 am +0100 1/6/98, Dave wrote: > >>I think that you own Bill Ritman a serious appology for flouting one of > the > >>cardinal rules of email. > >> > >>Now take your stupid ideas and clear off. > > > >Don't you think this should be for Bill to decide, rather than you, Bob? > >Oh, I forgot...... > > I would suggest that Robert apologize to Bill over the telephone.... if > Bill actually cares about this, then surely he'd reveal his number. Surely? > > Andrew If the low-life wants to appologise, he can do it here in front of you all. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 20:59:42 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <8735ce3f.35730490@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:15 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1014 Lines: 26 In a message dated 31/05/98 12:23:45, you write: > Putting this to the list, because if my guesses are right than you are Bob > and I am really pissed now, these insults have no place in the Sam world > and if you think otherwise than you should be banned from this list. > Good, I'm glad you are really pissed off, but not half as much as I am with you. God Almighty! I knew there were some dumb-brains on this list but I didn't know any of them could get a dumb as you. Don't they teach you anything in the Netherlands? Like private mail is exactly that, P R I V A T E you dumb idiot. You have just shown what a stupid, ignorant arsehole you are. You have been told enough times that there is no connection between myself and Bob. If you are so braindead that you cannot understand plain English then what the hell are your keepers doing letting you near a computer. And what right do you think you have to ban me from this list. I have as much right as you have to be here and have my say. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 20:59:42 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:22 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 250 Lines: 12 In a message dated 01/06/98 17:19:35, you write: > > > Doesn't matter... at this rate, the number of users subscribed to sam-users > will have dropped to about 8 in a matter of days. > > Simon > Is it that near to the end of term? Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 20:59:53 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ATLANTECH From: Scott Russell To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <00256616.0070D3AA.00@mail.atlan-tech.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:40:52 +0000 Subject: Disapointment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1713 Lines: 33 I joined this list a couple of weeks back, expecting to read some interssting things which will allow me to get the most out of my old Sam that I recently dug out of the cupboard. Apart from a few very notable and helpful expections (you know who you are), I have been very dissallusioned. All there seems to be is pointless arguing and flaming which there is no need to do. We are all Sam users or we wouldn't be on this list. Why don't we all concentrate on getting the most out of this little machine and having some fun developing for it. It is never going to get any bigger than it is now, so why can't we just be happy with what it is at? Trying to make money out of selling SAM stuff must be pretty hard, so I understand why Bob plays all his card so close to his chest in what sounds like a one man company. SAM, like the ST and Amiga are relics of the late 80s and early 90s. It isn't feasible to even comprehend it selling in large numbers, but, it was a good machine. The games, although rather a limited number, are quite impressive. What we need is to pool together the talent in the SAM world and develop something impressive. Look at some of the fantastic games written for the Spectrum on only 48k. I remember, Total Eclipse, Starwing, Knight Lore, Lords of Midnight, the Hobbit etc,. Some of these games were very early, but, still there is nothing on the SAM to compete. I must admit here that I have not yet played Stratosphere! Even the Wally games, top quality arcade adventures which could easily be done on the SAM and made very impressive. Just some suggestions. Please, don't start another flame war over this post. Anal/boring replies will be ignored... Cheers Scott From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 20:59:54 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <4740d53b.35730498@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:23 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Unoffical Tech Manual (was Re: INDUG and the Internet.) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 295 Lines: 12 In a message dated 01/06/98 18:16:09, you write: > > Anyway I vote for PDF as it can produce very nice looking documents and also takes up a lot of space. > > Anyone got any other comments ?? text in text form please, then diagrams in JPG or WMF to save space? > > Neil Maynard Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 20:59:55 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:18 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 550 Lines: 17 In a message dated 01/06/98 09:41:51, you write: > On Mon, 1 Jun 98 01:44:28 GMT, James R Curry said: > > >> In the USA, you can. Which is why all the furore happened over the LZW > > >> compression algorithm used in the GIF format. > > > Is not the formula used to generate VideoPlus (tm) codes copyrighted, as > > well? I believe it is... > > No, you can't copyright a formula. You can patent it (in the USA), though. > > imc But you can copyright a program and surely a program can be a formula? Where is the line drawn? Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 20:59:56 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <666ce6bf.35730494@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:18 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 429 Lines: 19 In a message dated 01/06/98 10:09:19, you write: > > >I think that you own Bill Ritman a serious appology for flouting one of the > >cardinal rules of email. > > > >Now take your stupid ideas and clear off. > > > Don't you think this should be for Bill to decide, rather than you, Bob? > Oh, I forgot...... > > DMZ I have done, and the shit will hit the fan if the low-life pulls a stunt like that again. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 20:59:57 1998 Message-ID: <67cUMAAQCwc1IwQ9@idalziel.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:27:12 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Ian Dalziel Subject: Re: The SAM In-Reply-To: <80256616.0035F400.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 676 Lines: 17 In article <80256616.0035F400.00@notes_a.case.co.uk>, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk writes >And it's obvious no-one here is going >to listen to you even if you begged and paid us to by lining up a lot of >attractive women brainwashed to be our long-term girlfriends. Steady on there, Justin, let's not be hasty... How attractive, exactly? Anyway, I for one am perfectly ready to listen to Bob - I just wish he'd furshlugginer listen to other people for once! Actually, the last constructive suggestion I recall on here CAME from Bob - about putting the Basic manual on his Web pages. I'll have a hack at scanning and OCRing the thing if that's still on... Bob? -- Ian Dalziel From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 21:11:01 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:58:24 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01bd8d97$a2e90440$0838accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1124 Lines: 38 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no [mailto:owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no]On > Behalf Of BillRitman@aol.com > Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:44 PM > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: The SAM > > > In a message dated 01/06/98 09:41:51, you write: > > > On Mon, 1 Jun 98 01:44:28 GMT, James R Curry said: > > > >> In the USA, you can. Which is why all the furore happened > over the LZW > > > >> compression algorithm used in the GIF format. > > > > > Is not the formula used to generate VideoPlus (tm) codes > copyrighted, as > > > well? I believe it is... > > > > No, you can't copyright a formula. You can patent it (in the > USA), though. > > > > imc > > But you can copyright a program and surely a program can be a > formula? Where > is the line drawn? Wherever makes the most money for the companies that lobbied for the ability to patent formulas in the US. I'm quite happy for algorithm implementations to be patentable. The actual algorithms themselves should remain free though -- as anyone can come up with the same algorithm by coming up with the same logic. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 21:26:00 1998 Message-Id: <199806012016.WAA15095@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:15:50 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 625 Lines: 24 > Van: BillRitman@aol.com > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: How dare you repost a private email. > Datum: Monday, June 01, 1998 9:44 > > In a message dated 01/06/98 13:35:50, you write: > > I would suggest that Robert apologize to Bill over the telephone.... if > > Bill actually cares about this, then surely he'd reveal his number. Surely? > > > > Andrew > > If the low-life wants to appologise, he can do it here in front of you all. Some very good prove first. -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 21:39:41 1998 Message-Id: <199806012030.WAA18467@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:33:05 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2186 Lines: 53 > Van: BillRitman@aol.com > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! > Datum: Monday, June 01, 1998 9:44 > > In a message dated 31/05/98 12:23:45, you write: > Good, I'm glad you are really pissed off, but not half as much as I am with > you. > God Almighty! I knew there were some dumb-brains on this list but I didn't > know any of them could get a dumb as you. Don't they teach you anything in the > Netherlands? Like private mail is exactly that, P R I V A T E you dumb > idiot. Showing your true colors now, aren't we? Anyway instead trying to cool things down, you are actually pouring more oil on the fire. If you prove that you are who you claim to be than I am really a stupid git and should give my apologies to you and the list, but since you decided not to do so. > You have just shown what a stupid, ignorant arsehole you are. Yeah right, the mail was ment for Bob but you stepped in with a so-called private email wich actually belonged to the list, If your are man enough to call me this now than why did you not do it in first email and send it to the list, trying to hide yourself behind PRIVATE email and then screaming hell that it should remain PRIVATE. It is very usefull to leak information sometimes and it seems that I have hit the bulls-eye this time. > You have been told enough times that there is no connection between myself and > Bob. If you are so braindead that you cannot understand plain English then > what the hell are your keepers doing letting you near a computer. Not yet finished insulting are we? > And what right do you think you have to ban me from this list. I have as much > right as you have to be here and have my say. One that hides himself behind a alias in order to annoy or downright insult others on the list should be banned in my opinion, happy now. Unless you of course prove yourself, which is not very likely going to happen, now is it? BTW: Did you notice that from my part there is no name calling towards you. -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 21:49:50 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:40:41 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! In-reply-to: <199806012030.WAA18467@mailserv.caiw.nl> Message-Id: <19980601204733Z49391-29866+188@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 264 Lines: 8 > From: "Robert van der Veeke" > > BTW: Did you notice that from my part there is no name calling towards you. IIR You did call Bob an Idiot. I don't recall any names towards Bill though. Although I may be mistaken. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 21:49:50 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <452eee3b.35730491@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:46:33 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1405 Lines: 34 At 8:44 pm +0100 1/6/98, wrote: >> >Can't understand it myself. >> >> If you don't understand the conversation, why join in? That's another of >> Bob's habits you seem to be picking up. >Do you have to be so annoying? I said that I could not understand how the >strange codes got in there - not that I did not understand the conversation. The conversation was about how the strange codes got in there. Since you admit you don't understand the topic and you had nothing to add to that conversation, why did you bother posting? >From memory it seems that you misunderstand far more conversions than anyone. Alright, give me an example! >Please, unless you have something interesting to add to the subject, let this >be an end to the matter. Once again you're telling people what to do. What on earth do you think gives you the right to continue bossing other people around? Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 22:00:05 1998 From: Nev Young To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 20:47:37 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <357400a3.6171466@post.demon.co.uk> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 474 Lines: 20 On Sun, 31 May 1998 20:03:17 +0100, Andrew Collier wrote: > At 7:36 pm +0100 31/5/98, Nev Young wrote: > >On Sun, 31 May 1998 07:35:53 EDT, wrote: > > > >> If I've found the right thing via dejanews, > > > >Since when did this mailing list post to Deja News ? > > > > Actually, this referred to a posting on comp.sys.sinclair > > HTH > It did. Thanks -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 22:00:05 1998 From: Nev Young To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 20:47:38 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <35750270.6632471@post.demon.co.uk> References: <80256616.004EBAC8.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <80256616.004EBAC8.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 413 Lines: 17 On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:21:33 +0100, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk wrote: > >Now rot in the killfile for a few months until you learn a little respect > for > >other people. > > Just out of curiousity, is there anyone here that ISN'T in Bob's killfile? > Me. It's not fair. I wanna be in bob's killfile. It's getting lonely out here. -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 22:00:06 1998 From: Nev Young To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 20:47:35 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <3572fdc4.5436326@post.demon.co.uk> References: <199805312105.WAA25475@ruby.comlab> In-Reply-To: <199805312105.WAA25475@ruby.comlab> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1202 Lines: 33 On Sun, 31 May 1998 22:05:39 +0100 (BST), Ian Collier wrote: > On Sun, 31 May 1998 18:36:15 GMT, Nev Young said: > > now you'll see the quotes become =91 and =92 [erm that's an equal sign > > followed by a two digit number 91 or 92] > > > I don't know what type of encoding that is. > > It's Quoted-Printable format, which is part of MIME, and it only happens > when a message containing top-bit-set characters passes through a non-8- > bit-clean MTA or if you send it with a MUA that attempts to be "helpful" > (like Pine). Fortunately, our local MTA is intelligent enough to reverse > the process so I don't get many QP-encoded messages these days. > I do know that when I used to post from work using MSMail the IBM gateway used to corrupt all sorts of characters eg ^ became and [ became very confusing. !! Apologies if these characters don't come through on your system. What's more it corrupted them BOTH ways :( I also had the problem that I could not read ANY message from one of the posters[1] as it confused the hell out of the poor little IBM mainframe :) [1] imc IIRC -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 22:07:06 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:55:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Disapointment In-reply-to: <00256616.0070D3AA.00@mail.atlan-tech.com> Message-Id: <19980601210147Z49400-29866+189@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3588 Lines: 102 > From: "Scott Russell" > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:40:52 +0000 > Subject: Disapointment > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 21:23:42 BST > I joined this list a couple of weeks back, expecting to read some > interssting things which will allow me to get the most out of my old Sam > that I recently dug out of the cupboard. Apart from a few very notable and > helpful expections (you know who you are), I have been very dissallusioned. > All there seems to be is pointless arguing and flaming which there is no > need to do. I agree Scott. > We are all Sam users or we wouldn't be on this list. Why don't we all > concentrate on getting the most out of this little machine and having some > fun developing for it. Hear hear! > It is never going to get any bigger than it is now, Well, it could at least sell a *few* more ... it's NOT that bad a machine! > so why can't we just be happy with what it is at? Nothing wrong with making the machine a *little* better... :) > Trying to make money out > of selling SAM stuff must be pretty hard, so I understand why Bob plays all > his card so close to his chest in what sounds like a one man company. Well, I'm sure Bob will agree that Jenny's very handy :) Seriously, she's a very helpful lady... But most of the real SAM Supporters are in the same boat of trying to do a lot himeself. The SAM Supplement - which is largely the efforts of David Tonks, Mark Sturdy with Crashed, Quazar with Colin Piggot and Persona with Malcolm Mackenzie. > SAM, like the ST and Amiga are relics of the late 80s and early 90s. It > isn't feasible to even comprehend it selling in large numbers, but, it was > a good machine. The games, although rather a limited number, are quite > impressive. Agreed. (BTW How many of u have played Exodus?) > What we need is to pool together the talent in the SAM world > and develop something impressive. Well there are impressive things being worked on. The thing is that people tend not to release news until they are complete, which may or may not be a good thing. However, I suppose it is better than being disapointed. The unfortunate thing is that information on some releases seems to be ignored with the "petty disagreement" factor being the cause. Does it matter who has released something good for SAM, so long as something is released? I, for myself, would certainly publicise any new release from Revelation Mark 2 in Blitz with no hesitation as a news item. That is news, and does not (out of interest!) cost a penny! I may not see eye to eye with Bob at times, but news is news and it is still of interest to my readers. > Look at some of the fantastic games > written for the Spectrum on only 48k. I remember, Total Eclipse, Starwing, > Knight Lore, Lords of Midnight, the Hobbit etc,. Well personally I thought the Hobbit was poo! Seriously, Agreed! > Some of these games were > very early, but, still there is nothing on the SAM to compete. Hobbit - see Days Of Sorcery Lords - see Legends of Esham (see! I mentioned a Rev 2 title ;) > I must > admit here that I have not yet played Stratosphere! Even the Wally games, > top quality arcade adventures which could easily be done on the SAM and > made very impressive. Agreed! And even in SCADS for that matter! > Just some suggestions. Please, don't start another flame war over this > post. Anal/boring replies will be ignored... Anal? > Cheers > > Scott David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 22:47:17 1998 From: Ian Armstrong Organization: Home Date: 1 Jun 98 22:34:06 +0100 Subject: Re: using a monitor on the sam. (fwd) Message-Id: <3573264D.MD-0.198.mail01@iarmst.demon.co.uk> To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MicroDot-II/AmigaOS 0.198 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2054 Lines: 83 On Sun, 31 May 1998 Chris White wrote: > Please Could you dig the info out It would be really usefull to me I've just tried the adapter with my SAM & it works okay with my monitor setup. This doesn't mean that it will work on all monitors though. (The next part is best viewed with a fix spaced font) Usual disclaimers apply. If you get this wrong you could damage your SAM and/or monitor. This adapter assumes a 15 pin VGA connector, but is easily adapted to a 9 pin connector. The monitor used _must_ be capable of syncing down to 15KHz (most cheap SVGA monitors can't do this). All the connections for the SAM go to the SCART socket only. It doesn't take into account the audio. I just bring these out to 2 phono connectors. The audio is on the following pins: SAM 1 - Audio out right 3 - Audio out left 4 - Audio gnd As for the video signals... The following are direct connection to the monitor: SAM - VGA 5 - 8 (BLUE GND) 7 - 3 (BLUE) 9 - 7 (GREEN GND) 11 - 2 (GREEN) 13 - 6 (RED GND) 15 - 1 (RED) 17 - 10 (Composite GND) Now comes the fun part. You'll require: 1 x 680K resistor 2 x 0.1uF cap 1 x EL4581CN (Video sync separator IC) In the UK these can all be obtained from places like Maplin. (The IC order code is AJ62S) If you're careful you can fit the electrical components inside the connector housing for the SCART, but be careful with the IC as it's easy to snap the legs off (and it happens to be the most expensive part). This part should be self explanatory. The only thing to note is that on pin 6 of the IC the capacitor and resistor are connected in parallel. __ __ VGA 13 --------|o U |----------- SAM 12 | | SAM 19 -0.1uF--| |-X | | +0.1uF+ VGA 14 --------| |---+680K +- SAM 17 | | SAM 17 --------|_____|-X Pin descriptions: VGA 13 - HSYNC/CSYNC VGA 14 - VSYNC SAM 12 - +5V SAM 17 - Composite video GND SAM 19 - Composite video -- Ian http://www.iarmst.demon.co.uk ICQ #7190975 From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 23:53:18 1998 Message-Id: <199806012247.XAA10077@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:47:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Unoffical Tech Manual (was Re: INDUG and the Internet.) In-reply-to: <9806011810.AA06271@mars.cableol.net> References: <3572EB3B.FCFA790F@purple.dircon.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 364 Lines: 12 > Anyway I vote for PDF as it can produce very nice looking documents > Anyone got any other comments ?? Er .. yes. Avoid PDF, since the reader for it is "bad". I hate Acrobat. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 1 23:53:19 1998 Message-Id: <199806012250.XAA10441@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:50:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 381 Lines: 11 > Is it that near to the end of term? Three weeks or so, but I think Simon was referring more to the rate that people who're pissed off with the general squabbling on the list are dropping out. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 00:17:44 1998 Message-ID: <3573354E.DE9EA3E8@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 00:12:14 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. References: <199806012250.XAA10441@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 622 Lines: 17 Paul Walker wrote: > > > Is it that near to the end of term? > > Three weeks or so, but I think Simon was referring more to the rate > that people who're pissed off with the general squabbling on the list > are dropping out. > > Paul I think it was another smart-assed comment Paul. In case you hadn't realised, he has no respect for anyone going to Uni/College or anyone under 80 years old. Or something like that. -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 00:17:44 1998 Message-Id: <199806012314.AAA13734@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:14:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. In-reply-to: <3573354E.DE9EA3E8@purple.dircon.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 447 Lines: 12 > I think it was another smart-assed comment Paul. In case you hadn't > realised, he has no respect for anyone going to Uni/College or anyone > under 80 years old. Or something like that. Oh, I guessed. I just don't give a monkeys - it's his problem, not mine. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 02:35:09 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: Call for material and an update! Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:25:53 -0400 Message-ID: <000601bd8dc5$62e217a0$cb63accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 343 Lines: 13 Hey ho folks, My website is getting updated as I type... So... anyone got any: Speccy links they want me to put up on the Your Sinclair pages? SAM Coupe websites they want me to put links up to? Dan -- any info on how to get put into the webring? BTW: new features: SAM Coupe logo in Corel Xara and EPS format if you want to use it. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 02:51:47 1998 Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 02:45:51 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Handley To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Doh! In-Reply-To: <3572EB3B.FCFA790F@purple.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2630 Lines: 53 'ullo, I've been reading this list for, ooh, a while now. I don't know why exactly, probably just because I'm interested in seeing what's happening in the Sam world. The thing is, its becoming really sad now. I know I'm not an 'active' member of the list, but I can't resist pointing out how pathetic a lot of people are being on it. Anyway, I may as well have my say... The whole 'special characters in a posting' thing has gone way OTT. Either Bob is using crap software which allows dodgy characters to get through or AOL are being pants. Its easily solved by Bob just not using anything remotely 'different' in his messages. It didn't require a masseeeeeeev debate really, did it? And the copyright stuff? WHY? I can't even remember why it started, it was probably something to do with the technical manual. I think its fair enough that Bob still views the Sam and associated stuff as commercially viable but I reckon some stuff, including the tech manual, should become PD. Free. Whatever you'd like to call it. I wish Simon luck with his version... On the subject of copyright can I put Grubbing For Gold on NVG? Seeing as though I don't know who is supposed to own the rights to it, I may as well offer it to anyone who would like a look. The argument about Bob and Bill being the same person is becoming a bit tiresome too. I think I joined in at one point but I seriously regret it. Even if they have the same opinion on everything, so what?!? If I thought Bob and Bill were talking rubbish, I'd just delete two messages rather than one. Instead I have to delete 20 related to people pointing out how similar the two are. Those people who really think that Bill is Bob...why not just ignore him, or killfile him??? And on the subject of killfiles...why do I have to read s**t loads of messages from people stating that they've 'kill-filed' other people? I DON'T CARE! And can someone think of something more original than the pot-kettle-black thing because thats getting bloody annoying too! I'd like to thank those of you who make the list worth reading. Those who just do their own bit and *usually* avoid arguments. Apologies for spelling things incorrectly, getting my facts ever-so-slightly wrong and stating my opinion even though I'm not a big Sam bod... Dave ,---------------------------------------------------------, ,/ Dave Handley / ,/ Email - d.handley@lancaster.ac.uk /' / Visit - http://www.lancs.ac.uk/ug/handley/index.htm /' `---------------------------------------------------------' From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 03:00:31 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Doh! Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:47:09 -0400 Message-ID: <000801bd8dc8$5b4276e0$cb63accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 243 Lines: 10 > Apologies for spelling things incorrectly, getting my facts > ever-so-slightly wrong and stating my opinion even though I'm not a big > Sam bod... You are a big SAM bod, and we love you for it. (Grubbing for Gold was great, btw) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 03:46:08 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:07:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. In-reply-to: <80256616.004EBAC8.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 215 Lines: 11 From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk > Just out of curiousity, is there anyone here that ISN'T in Bob's killfile? > Justin. Do we really need to answe that ?? :-) I'm fairly sure i'm in -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 03:46:08 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:07:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. In-reply-to: <14dc5c24.3572aab4@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 215 Lines: 10 From: > Now rot in the killfile for a few months until you learn a little respect for > other people. > Bob. Oh, Kettle and Black spring to mind yet again..... -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 03:46:08 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:07:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-reply-to: <492771d8.35706d2d@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 258 Lines: 15 From: > As far as I understand it all freeware is PD, not all PD is freeware. > Bob. You dont understand it very well then dou you? All PD is free, not Freeware, but then again, so is Freeware..... -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 08:34:27 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 8:27:45 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 570 Lines: 22 > Who cares. First section of the Unofficial SAM Coupe Technical Manual > (on memory management and handling), will be up real soon now (ie just > as soon as I bring the tech manual into the office, so I can be sure that > I've got my bits in the right bits of the right byte). Just as a point of interest, Cookie's first draft of the manual is available from: ftp://nvg.ntnu.no/pub/sam-coupe/docs or in PDF at http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/coupe/samdocs.htm. Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 08:50:59 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 8:44:09 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Call for material and an update! MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 603 Lines: 27 > Hey ho folks, > My website is getting updated as I type... Splendid. > SAM Coupe websites they want me to put links up to? Mine please! > Dan -- any info on how to get put into the webring? Yep, if you point your browser to: http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=samcoupe;addform it will add you to the ring queue, and I will add you to the ring when I get the notification from Webring. > SAM Coupe logo in Corel Xara and EPS format if you want to use it. I'll take the EPS please. Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 09:45:22 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256617.002F5E52.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:44:43 +0100 Subject: Re: The SAM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 850 Lines: 25 >Steady on there, Justin, let's not be hasty... How attractive, exactly? Sorry, I was in a nasty mood and tried to put the point across that sometimes, there would be no chance of anyone listening to Bob because of all this Bob/Bill/Samsboss (where is Samsboss, anyway?) nonsense... As for the copyright thing: it is a legal matter. If Bob is truely unhappy about copyright and stuff, he can always sue the people involved. I was just trying to point out that it is very doubtful that Bob will actually get anywhere... BTW, to put a fact straight, if Bob lined up a really attractive woman, I'd be the first run up and shake is hand. (Did I really say that? Am I really that desperate for a lass???) :) >Anyway, I for one am perfectly ready to listen to Bob - I just wish he'd >furshlugginer listen to other people for once! Agreed. Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 10:08:12 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <7887b0fa.3573bf2e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:00:29 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Off line for a few days Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 538 Lines: 16 Although I'm staying subscribed, so I will read everything when I get back, I am going to be off line for about a week to ten days. Jenny is off on holiday so I'm taking the oportunity to overhaul the computer systems and set up a LAN in the office. Before I can do this I need to finish the latest issue of FORMAT and get it off to the printers. If anyone wants me for anything I will still have access to Formatpub@aol.com which I've just set up on the spare machine - email me through that account if you want. Back soon. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 10:56:15 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:45:11 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1011 Lines: 32 In a message dated 01/06/98 20:02:12, you write: > >In a message dated 31/05/98 15:02:51, you write: > >> >> >Can't understand it myself. >> >> If you don't understand the conversation, why join in? That's another of >> Bob's habits you seem to be picking up. >> >> Andrew >> >Do you have to be so annoying? I said that I could not understand how the >strange codes got in there - not that I did not understand the conversation. >From memory it seems that you misunderstand far more conversions than anyone. > >Please, unless you have something interesting to add to the subject, let this >be an end to the matter. > >Bill. Well the characters did not start off on this machine, nor AOL contend it is possible for their software to do it. So the mystery remains unsolved - added to the X-Files. End of story folks, I'm not wasting my time on it anymore. If it happens again I now have a few traps set in place so that I should be able to find out were it happens - but until then..... -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 10:56:17 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:45:09 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2422 Lines: 56 In a message dated 02/06/98 08:40:54, you write: >>Steady on there, Justin, let's not be hasty... How attractive, exactly? > >Sorry, I was in a nasty mood and tried to put the point across that >sometimes, >there would be no chance of anyone listening to Bob because of all this >Bob/Bill/Samsboss (where is Samsboss, anyway?) nonsense... It is not me that has got my knickers in a twist over two other people (who are both entitled to their say). It is just a few daft people on the list that can't accept even the concept that: a) I know a lot more about things than they do, and b) that there are other people who agree with me. > >As for the copyright thing: it is a legal matter. If Bob is truely >unhappy about copyright and stuff, he can always sue the people >involved. I was just trying to point out that it is very doubtful >that Bob will actually get anywhere... And all I was pointing out is that the person in question may (or may not) have breached the copyright and other interlectual property rights held on the 256K expansion. That said, there would be little point in going to law (other than to set an example) because it would be costly and damages would only refelect the number of sales he made - which, given the people he is involved in, can only be a handful. > >BTW, to put a fact straight, if Bob lined up a really attractive woman, I'd >be the first run up and shake is hand. (Did I really say that? Am I really >that desperate for a lass???) :) Define Lass? Mid 20s, dark hair, short skirts...... Yep, could be arranged (you keep quiet Nev). > > >>Anyway, I for one am perfectly ready to listen to Bob - I just wish he'd >>furshlugginer listen to other people for once! > >Agreed. I do listen to people, especially when they have proved they have knowledge of the subject they are talking about. Purhaps it is one of my failings, but I do feel the need to correct people when they are wrong. You see, the way I look at it is that there are a lot of people who read this list who do not post very often. It would be wrong of me to allow those people to think that I agree with something that I don't. I happen to love the SAM and do all I can to keep it going and forward its development - do you really want me to stand by in silence when people make comments that clearly show they do not understand SAM and even more importantly do not understand business? > > >Justin. > > -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 10:56:18 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:45:10 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 455 Lines: 18 In a message dated 01/06/98 20:02:30, you write: > >Actually, the last constructive suggestion I recall on here CAME from >Bob - about putting the Basic manual on his Web pages. I'll have a hack >at scanning and OCRing the thing if that's still on... Bob? > >-- >Ian Dalziel > > Certainly Ian, would you like an extra copy of the manual to pull apart? If you email you address to Formatpub@aol.com and I will get one in the post right away. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 10:56:18 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: <3f44b4d4.3573c9a9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:45:12 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 330 Lines: 16 In a message dated 01/06/98 18:40:47, you write: > >Word document at first; other formats later. RTF format will be up there >too, probably. > >Simon > > If you are going to use Word, save in Word 6 or lower format as a lot of wordprocessors do not understand modern Word files. Better still, stick to the Rich Text. -- Bob. From imc Tue Jun 2 11:44:38 1998 Subject: Re: How dare you repost a private email. To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:44:38 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <35734CFE.4F82@postmaster.co.uk> from "David Ledbury" at Jun 1, 98 05:53:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 171 Lines: 8 On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:53:18 -0700, David Ledbury said: ^^^^^ Oh no, he's moved back to California... :-) imc Or should that be Seattle? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 12:43:44 1998 Message-ID: <3573E475.2498F59D@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:39:33 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Off line for a few days References: <7887b0fa.3573bf2e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 652 Lines: 20 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > > Although I'm staying subscribed, so I will read everything when I get back, I > am going to be off line for about a week to ten days. Altogether now - HURRAH! *grins* My Internet provider will thank you Bob, my inbox is likely to be a good bit emptier and cleaner for a while :) > Back soon. Oh, well it's really okay :( I mean, you should really work on that LAN for a good few weeks, just to make sure... > Bob. -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 13:11:25 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256617.003CCF89.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:04:34 +0100 Subject: Re: The SAM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 185 Lines: 14 Bob wrote: >Define Lass? Mid 20s, dark hair, short skirts...... Yep, could be arranged Sounds perfect... (so far) >(you keep quiet Nev). That doesn't sound too good.... Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 13:33:19 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256617.0043C300.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:26:01 +0100 Subject: Unofficial SAM tech man. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 656 Lines: 20 >> Who cares. First section of the Unofficial SAM Coupe Technical Manual >> (on memory management and handling), will be up real soon now (ie just >> as soon as I bring the tech manual into the office, so I can be sure >that >> I've got my bits in the right bits of the right byte). > >Just as a point of interest, Cookie's first draft of the manual is >available. Only one word can discribe this manual: WOW!!!! I'm oogling with delight waiting for the rest of the tech manual to be written! Lot's more example source code (and explanations) than the official one and looking at the contents page, it has a hell of a lot more useful info!!! Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 15:51:02 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM References: X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 02 Jun 1998 15:46:05 +0100 In-Reply-To: 's message of "Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:45:09 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 995 Lines: 28 writes: > In a message dated 02/06/98 08:40:54, you write: > It is just a few daft people on the list that can't accept even the > concept that: a) I know a lot more about things than they do, and b) > that there are other people who agree with me. Reminds me of someone else around here Bob ... > I do listen to people, especially when they have proved they have knowledge of > the subject they are talking about. I'm sorry Bob, but Andrew has got knowledge of what he is talking about, and has proved it which is more than you have ever done. If you were right and ever even made an attempt to prove it I'd be right behind you but so far the only person that has proved by means of reasonable logic (ie not just I'm right, you're wrong ...) is Andrew ... > Purhaps it is one of my failings, but I do feel the need to correct > people when they are wrong. I quite agree I do the same myself as does Andrew ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 18:25:55 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:18:46 GMT Message-ID: <3573efb6.4493239@mail.enterprise.net> References: <79193651.356ec664@aol.com> <199805291749.SAA03567@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> <3570fe02.26305150@mail.enterprise.net> <35761590.32335560@mail.enterprise.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 461 Lines: 17 On 01 Jun 1998 08:44:23 +0100, The Giggler wrote: >> 'Cains Formidable Ale' fresh from Asda's shelves. Tastes like piss at >> first, but it's brewed in Liverpool... So that's why they're such >> argumentative aggresive gits... what a revelation. > >I could take offense at that .... It was written with a humerous tenor. I've got nothing against scouse b*st*rds really. ;-) Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 18:25:55 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:18:58 GMT Message-ID: <3574f081.4696700@mail.enterprise.net> References: <000401bd8b2b$cd137160$1f38accf@default> <19980529202510Z49270-11583+535@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 506 Lines: 18 On 01 Jun 1998 08:45:29 +0100, The Giggler wrote: >> >> It's bloody stupid - not very nice. > >Unless he was enquiring how to get his own copy to run under SimCoupe in >which case there'd be nothing wrong with it at all .... I doubt it >though ;) Ho hum. Why does everyone always think the worst? I've got my original copy of the game here. David was probably there when I bought it from SAMCo at a show in Birmingham. Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 18:42:40 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:38:58 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Call for material and an update! In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <36902453F5B@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 134 Lines: 9 > > SAM Coupe websites they want me to put links up to? Can you put mine please? http://www.cus.umist.ac.uk/~matthew Thanks. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 18:55:15 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:49:23 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Call for material and an update! In-reply-to: <000601bd8dc5$62e217a0$cb63accf@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <3692EC91671@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 67 Lines: 5 Simon, That unoff. tech manual is looking good! Keep it up! MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 19:24:55 1998 Message-Id: <199806021820.TAA13262@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:20:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! In-reply-to: <8735ce3f.35730490@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1170 Lines: 29 haven't *actually* unsubbed yet.. might even stay for a bit (till the end of term. YES! I ADMIT IT! I IS A STOODENT!) > From: > In a message dated 31/05/98 12:23:45, you write: > > God Almighty! I knew there were some dumb-brains on this list but I didn't > know any of them could get a dumb as you. Don't they teach you anything in the > Netherlands? Like private mail is exactly that, P R I V A T E you dumb > idiot. > You have just shown what a stupid, ignorant arsehole you are. > You have been told enough times that there is no connection between myself and > Bob. If you are so braindead that you cannot understand plain English then > what the hell are your keepers doing letting you near a computer. > And what right do you think you have to ban me from this list. I have as much > right as you have to be here and have my say. > Bill. that bill, eh? what a tosser. nothing like a bit of friendly xenophobia on this list to get things off to a fresh start, is there bill? " hi, i'm bill, and you are insulting and rude. WELL, I CAN BE RUDER, IGNORANT, AND XENOPHOBIC AT THE SAME TIME. NERRRRRRR. AND CHILDISH. " dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 19:24:55 1998 Message-Id: <199806021822.TAA13364@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:21:44 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Bob / Bill duality X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 131 Lines: 4 wonder if, now that Bob's "gone" we'll see fewer posts from Bill? and, remember kids, i'm not implying *anything* by that. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 19:28:56 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:25:01 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Bob / Bill duality In-reply-to: <199806021822.TAA13364@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <369C69031F3@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 240 Lines: 8 > wonder if, now that Bob's "gone" we'll see fewer posts from Bill? > and, remember kids, i'm not implying *anything* by that. > dave Of course not. I'm sure Bill will keep up the posts for the next week as usual, won't you Bill? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 19:28:57 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:28:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: Message-Id: <19980602182529Z49414-29866+409@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1898 Lines: 50 > From: > > And all I was pointing out is that the person in question may (or may not) > have breached the copyright That has still not been proven to be the case to any satisfactory degree. > and other interlectual property rights held on the > 256K expansion. That said, there would be little point in going to law (other > than to set an example) because it would be costly and damages would only > refelect the number of sales he made - which, given the people he is involved > in, can only be a handful. And what is that supposed to mean? Interesting to see that the Blitz readership has been growing almost as fast as the Fred one was declining.... > Define Lass? Mid 20s, dark hair, short skirts...... Yep, could be arranged > (you keep quiet Nev). Hmmm..... I've got my doubts you could line up anything suitable for me in that dept ;) > > I do listen to people, especially when they have proved they have knowledge of > the subject they are talking about. Purhaps it is one of my failings, but I do > feel the need to correct people when they are wrong. There must be a few wrong peeps around here then... ;) > You see, the way I look > at it is that there are a lot of people who read this list who do not post > very often Probably of the snidey battles some members have with each other. > It would be wrong of me to allow those people to think that I > agree with something that I don't. I happen to love the SAM and do all I can > to keep it going and forward its development - do you really want me to stand > by in silence when people make comments that clearly show they do not > understand SAM and even more importantly do not understand business? I don't think anyone really can blame u for trying to make a few quid. But it doesnt mean that those people who do things for self-funding hobbies or for fun are wrong. David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 19:34:07 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:27:41 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! In-reply-to: <199806021820.TAA13262@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> References: <8735ce3f.35730490@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <369D1DE0D64@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 399 Lines: 11 > haven't *actually* unsubbed yet.. might even stay for a bit (till the > end of term. YES! I ADMIT IT! I IS A STOODENT!) Yep so is I :) What has Bob got against stoodents? Surely if he knows soooo much about computers, he had to have obtained some kind of computing qualification in a university or otherwise, and thus had to study for it, thus becoming a stoodent! What's the problem? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 19:34:07 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:29:42 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM References: In-reply-to: <19980602182529Z49414-29866+409@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <369DA4E4080@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 331 Lines: 10 > > You see, the way I look > > at it is that there are a lot of people who read this list who do not post > > very often > > Probably of the snidey battles some members have with each other. Well, yeah. They read all the arguments and fighting and they have a good old laugh about it all, and how silly these people are. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 20:08:23 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <369C69031F3@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> References: <199806021822.TAA13364@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:04:48 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Bob / Bill duality X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1000 Lines: 25 At 7:25 pm +0100 2/6/98, Matthew Craven wrote: >> wonder if, now that Bob's "gone" we'll see fewer posts from Bill? >> and, remember kids, i'm not implying *anything* by that. >> dave > >Of course not. I'm sure Bill will keep up the posts for the next week >as usual, won't you Bill? Who knows? It is already established that Bob will have at least one computer capable of reading email, since he does say he'll keep reading messages sent to Formatput@aol.com So either way, nothing's proved. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 20:19:34 1998 Message-Id: <199806021913.UAA18080@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:13:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Bob / Bill duality In-reply-to: References: <369C69031F3@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 411 Lines: 11 > >Of course not. I'm sure Bill will keep up the posts for the next week > >as usual, won't you Bill? > > Who knows? It is already established that Bob will have at least one > computer capable of reading email, since he does say he'll keep reading > messages sent to Formatput@aol.com .. and also, i guess you can still post messages after you've unsubbed. dunno, maybe not. never tried. anyone know? dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 20:57:58 1998 Message-Id: <199806021953.UAA25339@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:53:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1125 Lines: 26 > can't accept even the concept that: a) I know a lot more about things than > they do, And here we have the root of the problem. You know more about some things than people on the list; other people on the list know more about other things than you. For example, you may have helped put the SAM together - that doesn't mean that you're fluent in it's code; whereas Mnemodemo could only have been written by people who are. For another example, I specifically looked up the copyright laws and definitions of, say, PD as they apply to computer software some time ago (I am a s/w author, after all!), so it would have been nice if you didn't try and contradict me every step of the way. If you accept that you don't know more about everything, and other people do the same, things would be a lot better on here. If things don't improve on here, then there's going to be yet another email heading to majordomo before too long. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 21:34:19 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:44 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Not a lot to do with SAM X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <36BDF016BA0@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 809 Lines: 26 Hi, Can anyone help? I am doing a database (sort of) program that reads in a list of names and 2-digit numbers of the form Name 1 M1 Name 2 M2 .. Name n Mn All these names are of different lengths, but are situated in a column length of 20 characters. Now my program asks you to type in a name from the list, and proceeds to check it against the list that has been read in previously. It seems to take each name as 20 chars long, complete with trailing spaces, and so doesn't register a match with any name I put in (with no spaces after it). The main thrust here is to ask: How would I do a kind of end-record escape code or null terminator through Notepad (which is what the list was produced with)? Thanks for your help. MJC From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 21:48:54 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:36:52 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: The SAM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1426 Lines: 39 > If you accept that you don't know more about everything, and > other people do the same, things would be a lot better on here. I think I'll permit myself some superfluous profanity: Spot Fucking On. About 10 years ago when I first started pursuing a life in computers (and yes, I knew *exactly* what I wanted at that tender age) my computer studies teacher said to me: "The more you learn about computers, the less you'll find you actually know" I'm not going to go chuntering on about respect for people since many of the people on this list with just snort and say "Yeah right" but that's because this list seems to have degenerated into childish claims, taunts and flames. It seems that people simply need to recognise what this list is about: It is not a moderated group, no one has control, no one has power of veto, everything you express is only your opinion (as this is mine - and open comment if you like) and nothing more. WE ARE ALL THE SAME HERE. I remember the days when there were 200 mails a day about optimised Z80 routines, SAMbasic bugs, DOS codes & Interfaces. All I seem to get these days is people just arguing the toss. The Golden days are gone, but I'm not unsubbing yet - I have a little bit of faith in the members of this community. Thank you and goodnight. Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 21:48:55 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:34:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM In-reply-to: <36BDF016BA0@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Message-Id: <19980602204106Z49420-29866+439@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 378 Lines: 24 > From: "Matthew Craven" > Hi, > > Can anyone help? Will try :) [snip] > The main thrust here is to ask: How would I do a kind of end-record > escape code or null terminator through Notepad (which is what the > list was produced with)? > > Thanks for your help. > > MJC Hold down ALT and type 0255. Think that's it... David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 22:10:44 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <11a28fdc.357469a0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:07:43 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2159 Lines: 50 In a message dated 02/06/98 14:46:50, you write: > writes: > > > In a message dated 02/06/98 08:40:54, you write: > > > It is just a few daft people on the list that can't accept even the > > concept that: a) I know a lot more about things than they do, and b) > > that there are other people who agree with me. > > Reminds me of someone else around here Bob ... > > > I do listen to people, especially when they have proved they have > knowledge of > > the subject they are talking about. > > I'm sorry Bob, but Andrew has got knowledge of what he is talking > about, and has proved it which is more than you have ever done. If you > were right and ever even made an attempt to prove it I'd be right behind > you but so far the only person that has proved by means of reasonable > logic (ie not just I'm right, you're wrong ...) is Andrew ... > > > Purhaps it is one of my failings, but I do feel the need to correct > > people when they are wrong. > > I quite agree I do the same myself as does Andrew ... > > Lee. Now don't flame me, this is just my own personal opinion. If I understand it, Bob was involved in the early days of Sam, he is mentioned in the credits in the Sam manual. He was involved in the Spectrum, the Disciple and the +D long before Sam came out. He has run his own business for a long time and, from his posting, I gather he has been involved with computing since the year dot. Now, if Bob is telling lies about his past expertise, then you have to accept that MGT were wrong to get him to organise their official user group, that MGT were wrong to use his skills in Swansea for so long. And more than anything, that the thousands of Indug members over the years have been wrong to deal with him. The alternative is to accept that after a long period of involvement with computers, with Spectrums, with MGT, with Sam, with business and with everyday users like myself, he just may know a bit more about things than someone like Andrew. Draw your own conclusions please. I'm not going to argue about it. Not once, not never, no-way! Bill. [A calm voice of reason I hope.] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 22:18:50 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:07:37 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2593 Lines: 61 In a message dated 01/06/98 20:45:00, you write: > > Showing your true colors now, aren't we? Anyway instead trying to cool > things down, you are actually pouring more oil on the fire. If you prove > that you are who you claim to be than I am really a stupid git and should > give my apologies to you and the list, but since you decided not to do so. I don't need to prove who I am to anyone, least of all you. > > > You have just shown what a stupid, ignorant arsehole you are. > > Yeah right, the mail was ment for Bob but you stepped in with a so-called > private email wich actually belonged to the list, If the original posting was ment for Bob why didn't you have the sense to send it to Bob and not a public mailing list? You started it remember, you raised a subject that was nothing to do with with this list. > If your are man enough to > call me this now than why did you not do it in first email and send it to > the list, trying to hide yourself behind PRIVATE email and then screaming > hell that it should remain PRIVATE. It is very usefull to leak information > sometimes and it seems that I have hit the bulls-eye this time. Are you really that DUMB?? Come on answer me. Don't you realise what the word PRIVATE means? Only a total arsehole reposts a private email to a public forum without the consent of the originator. > > > You have been told enough times that there is no connection between > myself and > > Bob. If you are so braindead that you cannot understand plain English > then > > what the hell are your keepers doing letting you near a computer. > > Not yet finished insulting are we? No, not until you apologise for what you have done. > > > And what right do you think you have to ban me from this list. I have as > much > > right as you have to be here and have my say. > > One that hides himself behind a alias in order to annoy or downright insult > others on the list should be banned in my opinion, happy now. Unless you of > course prove yourself, which is not very likely going to happen, now is it? No I am not happy. You just go on proving that you are the idiot - not Bob. You do it by refusing to appologise for your beach of email protocol and you breach of my copyright on the original message. Until you apologise I will treat you with the contempt you have earned. > > BTW: Did you notice that from my part there is no name calling towards you. But STILL no APOLOGY. Come on, you were wrong to do what you did, apologise and I may apologise for the name calling. Come on, I'm waiting. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 22:18:50 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:11:52 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <11a28fdc.357469a0@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <36C8E9B4DA6@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1138 Lines: 22 > Now don't flame me, this is just my own personal opinion. If I understand it, > Bob was involved in the early days of Sam, he is mentioned in the credits in > the Sam manual. He was involved in the Spectrum, the Disciple and the +D long > before Sam came out. He has run his own business for a long time and, from his > posting, I gather he has been involved with computing since the year dot. Now, > if Bob is telling lies about his past expertise, then you have to accept that > MGT were wrong to get him to organise their official user group, that MGT were > wrong to use his skills in Swansea for so long. And more than anything, that > the thousands of Indug members over the years have been wrong to deal with > him. > The alternative is to accept that after a long period of involvement with > computers, with Spectrums, with MGT, with Sam, with business and with everyday > users like myself, he just may know a bit more about things than someone like > Andrew. > Draw your own conclusions please. I'm not going to argue about it. Not once, > not never, no-way! > Bill. [A calm voice of reason I hope.] I told you so!!! MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 22:18:52 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:14:12 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1052 Lines: 34 In a message dated 02/06/98 20:51:20, you write: > Hi, > > Can anyone help? > > I am doing a database (sort of) program that reads in a list of names > and 2-digit numbers of the form > > Name 1 M1 > Name 2 M2 > .. > Name n Mn > > All these names are of different lengths, but are situated in a > column length of 20 characters. Now my program asks you to type in a > name from the list, and proceeds to check it against the list that > has been read in previously. It seems to take each name as 20 chars > long, complete with trailing spaces, and so doesn't register a match > with any name I put in (with no spaces after it). Input the name in to an array not into a character field. Both sides of the comparison are then the same. > > The main thrust here is to ask: How would I do a kind of end-record > escape code or null terminator through Notepad (which is what the > list was produced with)? > > Thanks for your help. > > MJC Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 22:25:10 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:20:13 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <36CB1E43ECD@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 331 Lines: 11 ..... > > long, complete with trailing spaces, and so doesn't register a match > > with any name I put in (with no spaces after it). > > Input the name in to an array not into a character field. Both sides of the > comparison are then the same. OK, how do I do that in C++? I have defined the names field as type Char. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 22:25:10 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:21:55 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM References: <36BDF016BA0@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> In-reply-to: <19980602204106Z49420-29866+439@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <36CB9A2127A@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 80 Lines: 7 > Hold down ALT and type 0255. > Think that's it... > David I'll try it. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 23:07:53 1998 From: davidm@enterprise.net (David Munden) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:58:25 GMT Message-ID: <357a6c01.4732576@mail.enterprise.net> References: <3324B4561D6@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> <337EE107135@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <337EE107135@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 313 Lines: 9 On Sun, 31 May 1998 17:34:09 BST, Matthew Craven wrote: >> >Usually, the author allows people to use the software, but not sell it. >> Now can we move on please? >OK - I accept that I made a mistake. I take it all back. That makes a refereshing change to see somebody admit to being wrong. _ |_)avid (\/)unden From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 23:07:53 1998 From: davidm@enterprise.net (David Munden) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: P's & Q's! Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:58:27 GMT Message-ID: <357e7473.6895219@mail.enterprise.net> References: <19980530213507Z49374-11583+710@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> <35734263.1640144@mail.enterprise.net> In-Reply-To: <35734263.1640144@mail.enterprise.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 206 Lines: 9 On Sun, 31 May 1998 15:00:49 GMT, Dave wrote: > >>Your co-operation is appreciated. >And I thought Frode was the boss around here! And Bob thought he had control of everything. :)))) _ |_)avid (\/)unden From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 23:07:54 1998 From: davidm@enterprise.net (David Munden) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:58:21 GMT Message-ID: <3578691e.3993773@mail.enterprise.net> References: <79193651.356ec664@aol.com> <199805291749.SAA03567@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> <3570fe02.26305150@mail.enterprise.net> <35761590.32335560@mail.enterprise.net> <3573efb6.4493239@mail.enterprise.net> In-Reply-To: <3573efb6.4493239@mail.enterprise.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 205 Lines: 8 On Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:18:46 GMT, Dave wrote: >It was written with a humerous tenor. I've got nothing against scouse >b*st*rds really. ;-) Only because you live so close to them. :) _ |_)avid (\/)unden From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 23:07:54 1998 From: davidm@enterprise.net (David Munden) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:58:23 GMT Message-ID: <3580748b.6918377@mail.enterprise.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1463 Lines: 38 On Fri, 29 May 1998 18:26:49 EDT, wrote: >>I'd say that it appears that this particular game is no longer >>sellable then. >That is not your desision to make though is it? He`s not saying it is. >>I get this funny picture of a number of hungry individuals clinging on >>to old and obsolete stuff, with ideas that someday... someday... a >>sale may occur. :-) >And why not? Not very likely nowadays though is it. Not in sufficient quantities to make it worthwhile. I accepted that fact a long time ago that is why I made available any of the adventure stuff that I have written. >>I'm not saying that games like PoP were anything but brilliant when >>they first came out, but so were the old speccy greats - that are now >>(except for a small minority) freely available on the net. >The vast majority of them illegally. If the industry was that bothered they would do something to close the main sites that are easily found. Many of the sites also state that if the respective companies don`t like their software being given away then they only have to say and the stuff would be removed. >>I say that anyone who is talented at coding SAM should forget it and >>move onto pastures new. Why bother doing anything at all in this >>stifling atmosphere? >Well why don't you go away and leave those of us that want a future for SAM to >have one. Well I can`t see the future being much different from the present. _ |_)avid (\/)unden From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 23:20:31 1998 Message-Id: <199806022210.AAA11731@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:12:27 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3864 Lines: 104 > Van: BillRitman@aol.com > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! > Datum: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 11:07 > > In a message dated 01/06/98 20:45:00, you write: > > > > > Showing your true colors now, aren't we? Anyway instead trying to cool > > things down, you are actually pouring more oil on the fire. If you prove > > that you are who you claim to be than I am really a stupid git and should > > give my apologies to you and the list, but since you decided not to do so. > > I don't need to prove who I am to anyone, least of all you. > > > > > You have just shown what a stupid, ignorant arsehole you are. > > > > Yeah right, the mail was ment for Bob but you stepped in with a so-called > > private email wich actually belonged to the list, > > If the original posting was ment for Bob why didn't you have the sense to send > it to Bob and not a public mailing list? You started it remember, you raised a > subject that was nothing to do with with this list. Because I am sick and tired of this pulling and pushing, bullying and ordering people around on this list, and explain to me why what is happening outside this list concerning the Sam has nothing to do with this SAM-users list. > > If your are man enough to > > call me this now than why did you not do it in first email and send it to > > the list, trying to hide yourself behind PRIVATE email and then screaming > > hell that it should remain PRIVATE. It is very usefull to leak information > > sometimes and it seems that I have hit the bulls-eye this time. > > Are you really that DUMB?? Come on answer me. Don't you realise what the word > PRIVATE means? Only a total arsehole reposts a private email to a public forum > without the consent of the originator. - Snipped from your email (1) - What the hell has this got to do with SAM-Users? It is not a reply to something in SAM-Users is it? Nor is it a sensible start to a new thread is it? Said Wahat? You stupid idiotic fool - when will you get it through your thick head that Bob is Bob, I am Bill, WE ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON. THIS HAS BEEN SAID TIME AND TIME AGAIN. WHAT PART OF IT DOES YOUR THICK STUBID BRAIN HAVE DIFFICULTY IN UNDERSTANDING? - End of snip - That is excactly the reply you send me in your so-called private email, well sorry mr. Ritman but I fail to see what is so private about this, do you really expect that I am going to sit up straight and do nothing while I recieve something like this. > > Not yet finished insulting are we? > > No, not until you apologise for what you have done. Only if you prove me and the list beyond doubt who you are? Until then I don't have any respect for someone who is hiding himself behind a email. And this is the last time I will write this. > No I am not happy. You just go on proving that you are the idiot - not Bob. > You do it by refusing to appologise for your beach of email protocol and you > breach of my copyright on the original message. Well sue me, but the contents of "that" email don't justify private in my opinion. You had now several times the chance of proving me wrong by revealing who you are in real life, but just like Bob you are playing with words and theirby prove nothing whatsoever. You are still hiding yourself and I think that is not without a reason. > Until you apologise I will treat you with the contempt you have earned. > But STILL no APOLOGY. Come on, you were wrong to do what you did, apologise > and I may apologise for the name calling. > > Come on, I'm waiting. And on that day Satan will be skating to his work. -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. (1) That is exacly what you have replied to me in your so-called private email. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 23:48:40 1998 From: nevilley@spamblock.nfy53.demon.co.uk (Nev Young) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 22:39:06 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <357466bf.502166@post.demon.co.uk> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 578 Lines: 19 On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:45:09 EDT, wrote: > In a message dated 02/06/98 08:40:54, you write: > > >BTW, to put a fact straight, if Bob lined up a really attractive woman, I'd > >be the first run up and shake is hand. (Did I really say that? Am I really > >that desperate for a lass???) :) > > Define Lass? Mid 20s, dark hair, short skirts...... Yep, could be arranged > (you keep quiet Nev). > > biting lip hard. but would she mmmph mmp mmmffhh yep I guess she would :) -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 23:48:41 1998 From: nevilley@spamblock.nfy53.demon.co.uk (Nev Young) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 22:39:08 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <3575679b.722187@post.demon.co.uk> References: <80256617.003CCF89.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <80256617.003CCF89.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 355 Lines: 17 On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:04:34 +0100, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk wrote: > Bob wrote: > > >Define Lass? Mid 20s, dark hair, short skirts...... Yep, could be arranged > Sounds perfect... (so far) she smokes :( > > > >(you keep quiet Nev). > That doesn't sound too good.... 8-? -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 23:48:45 1998 From: nevilley@spamblock.nfy53.demon.co.uk (Nev Young) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 22:39:10 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <35766877.942443@post.demon.co.uk> References: <3f44b4d4.3573c9a9@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <3f44b4d4.3573c9a9@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 528 Lines: 23 On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:45:12 EDT, wrote: > In a message dated 01/06/98 18:40:47, you write: > > > > >Word document at first; other formats later. RTF format will be up there > >too, probably. > > > >Simon > > > > > > If you are going to use Word, save in Word 6 or lower format as a lot of > wordprocessors do not understand modern Word files. Better still, stick to the > Rich Text. > Whatever happened to wordstar ? ^KX -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 2 23:56:35 1998 From: nevilley@spamblock.nfy53.demon.co.uk (Nev Young) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 22:49:56 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <35757fc1.1594042@post.demon.co.uk> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1023 Lines: 27 On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:07:37 EDT, wrote a lot of stuff Now I may be wrong about some of this but: If I write a letter, you know on paper with a biro, and put it in an envelope, stick a stamp on it, and stick it in a letterbox. Then the moment I let it drop into the box it is no longer my property but the property of the adressee )unless they can not be located in which case it should come back to me). If that letter is now their property they can do what they want with it, frame it, burn it, wipe their arse on it, publish it in a newspaper. So why is the same not true of e-mail. Once it is sent it should belong to the adressee (unless it bounces) and the adressee can then do whatever they want with it. I would think it would be a good policy not to say something to another person unless you can trust them not to repeat it. Nev - who knows things that others would rather he didn't repeat. (and vice-versa) -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From imc Wed Jun 3 00:28:26 1998 Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM In-Reply-To: <36BDF016BA0@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> from Matthew Craven at "Jun 2, 98 09:30:44 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:28:26 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 642 Lines: 14 On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:44 BST, Matthew Craven said: > All these names are of different lengths, but are situated in a > column length of 20 characters. Now my program asks you to type in a > name from the list, and proceeds to check it against the list that > has been read in previously. It seems to take each name as 20 chars > long, complete with trailing spaces, and so doesn't register a match > with any name I put in (with no spaces after it). Well what you want to do, you see, is you call your TRUNC$ function don't you, and then it chops all the spaces off the end. What do you mean you aren't doing it in Sam BASIC? imc From imc Wed Jun 3 00:36:27 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <3572fdc4.5436326@post.demon.co.uk> from Nev Young at "Jun 1, 98 08:47:35 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:36:27 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 548 Lines: 15 On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 20:47:35 GMT, Nev Young said: > I do know that when I used to post from work using MSMail the > IBM gateway used to corrupt all sorts of characters eg ^ became and > [ became very confusing. !! That's different as IBM mainframes use EBCDIC character encoding and they probably had screwed translation tables. > I also had the problem that I could not read ANY message from one of > the posters[1] as it confused the hell out of the poor little IBM > mainframe :) I still have no idea why that might have been. imc From imc Wed Jun 3 00:38:10 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM In-Reply-To: from BillRitman at "Jun 1, 98 03:44:18 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:38:10 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 234 Lines: 7 On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:18 EDT, BillRitman said: > But you can copyright a program and surely a program can be a formula? Where > is the line drawn? Good question, but then the legal world is probably full of lines like that. imc From imc Wed Jun 3 00:40:04 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <000401bd8d8a$7a1f0b20$0838accf@default> from Simon Cooke at "Jun 1, 98 02:24:12 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:40:04 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 214 Lines: 7 On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:24:12 -0400, Simon Cooke said: > Word document at first; other formats later. Aargh. Thank heavens for Dan's PDF version. HTML would be ideal, really, if it's going to be on the web. imc From imc Wed Jun 3 00:43:18 1998 Subject: Re: INDUG and the Internet. In-Reply-To: <000001bd8d80$8cb14500$0838accf@default> from Simon Cooke at "Jun 1, 98 01:13:09 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:43:18 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 379 Lines: 9 On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:13:09 -0400, Simon Cooke said: > For example, an author's work, 50 years after > their death, automatically becomes public domain. 70 years in this country. :-) [or should that be :-( since 70 years is an awfully long time and I can't see any reason for it really. I'd have it put down to 25 years if I were in charge.] imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 00:43:49 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:36:19 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM In-reply-to: <199806022328.AAA08946@ruby.comlab> References: <36BDF016BA0@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> from Matthew Craven at "Jun 2, 98 09:30:44 pm" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <36EF67C2631@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 683 Lines: 13 > > All these names are of different lengths, but are situated in a > > column length of 20 characters. Now my program asks you to type in a > > name from the list, and proceeds to check it against the list that > > has been read in previously. It seems to take each name as 20 chars > > long, complete with trailing spaces, and so doesn't register a match > > with any name I put in (with no spaces after it). > Well what you want to do, you see, is you call your TRUNC$ function > don't you, and then it chops all the spaces off the end. Well, you know, I thought about that, remembered that I was working in C++ and said 'Oh I wish they had SAMBASIC on this system'. MJC. From imc Wed Jun 3 00:52:11 1998 Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM In-Reply-To: <36EF67C2631@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> from Matthew Craven at "Jun 3, 98 00:36:19 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:52:11 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 316 Lines: 12 On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:36:19 BST, Matthew Craven said: > Well, you know, I thought about that, remembered that I was working > in C++ and said 'Oh I wish they had SAMBASIC on this system'. Well what about something like char *trunc(char *s){ int i=strlen(s);while(i--&&isspace(s[i]));s[i]=0;return s; } ? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 01:35:35 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <11a28fdc.357469a0@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:33:17 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: The SAM X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3372 Lines: 67 At 10:07 pm +0100 2/6/98, wrote: >The alternative is to accept that after a long period of involvement with >computers, with Spectrums, with MGT, with Sam, with business and with everyday >users like myself, he just may know a bit more about things than someone like >Andrew. Just what exactly was "someone like Andrew" meant to mean? I sounds like some sort of half-hearted insult, as if you could only just bring yourself to even mention my name. And what "things" exactly? Be specific Bill. Generalisation is a Bad Thing. As has so carefully been pointed out on more than one occasion, different people have different knowledge about different things. My particular niche is Sam machine code programming, and Bob simply cannot reasonably claim to know more about that than me. I don't claim to know anything about the +D, much about the Spectrum, I never worked for MGT or SamCo and I don't run INDUG (which, as far as I was aware is an INDependent User Group and not an official MGT organization). I'm happy to accept that this is Bob's area; I don't claim to beat him there, and I never have. But I do know other "things" in a lot of detail. I've been using computers for as long as I can remeber. As for the Sam; I've worked with it, coded for it, and pushed it to the technical limits. I formed the MNEMOtech coding group, I've had software published as PD, on Fred, and commercially. I write various articles in various fanzines. By writing software and encouraging others to do likewise, I have been doing my bit to help keep Sam alive. This is my area. So why does Bob insist he knows everything about everything? Why should his background *necessarily* mean that you should take it as read that he is right? It would be far more sensible to read the discussions and establish who knows more about each particular topic on an individual basis. And wheras you'll find Bob using arguments such as "I'm right. I know I'm right. You should know I'm right because I'm Bob and I've been involved with the Sam for more years than anyone else. You stupid idiot, can't you see I'm right! You are a braindead fool for not accepting that I am right so I will not listen to you any more." you'll find that I go to considerable effort to explain and justify my viewpoints. If Bob has any respect for other people on this list then he should do the same. However, I think it has by now been firmly established that, in his opinion, the rest of this list consists entirely of stuck-up know-it-all kids who have no right to their own opinions because they're all so much younger than himself and cannot possibly have any experience of anything, so it is quite safe to reject their so-called knowledge in the safe assumption that you were right all along. And if anyone wants to follow up to this, be specific. Quote examples. Prove something. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 02:00:57 1998 Message-ID: <35749F90.2C81A7BF@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 01:57:52 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1304 Lines: 23 Andrew Collier wrote: > But I do know other "things" in a lot of detail. I've been using computers > for as long as I can remeber. As for the Sam; I've worked with it, coded > for it, and pushed it to the technical limits. I formed the MNEMOtech > coding group, I've had software published as PD, on Fred, and commercially. > I write various articles in various fanzines. By writing software and > encouraging others to do likewise, I have been doing my bit to help keep > Sam alive. This is my area. You have indeed Andrew, your various demos, bits and pieces and especially your excellent BASIC articles, have all kept me interested in the SAM. It's the people like you (and a good few others - you know who are you), who really love the machine, that are the important people in the SAM world. I've never pretended to have even half the knowledge you, Simon, David, Bob, Edwin, Justin and a great many others have, on the SAM, but I love our little blue-footed friend, and talented bods like you keep us all interested in it. P.S. I just know it was a great mistake listing just a few names... -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 02:05:01 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:55:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Manic Miner Message-Id: <19980603010215Z49418-29866+494@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 292 Lines: 10 A bit more on topic :) How far can any one on the channel get in each of the 3 caverns of this SAM Classic :) David BTW: Advert time! Manic Miner - available from Persona for a very fair price! See www.persona.clara.net for details, or email persona@clara.net for a full price list :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 02:05:07 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:55:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: World of SAM Message-Id: <19980603010214Z49417-29866+493@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 199 Lines: 6 After looking at a recent listing of people on the mailing list, I noticed a few unfamilar addresses from outside of the UK. Any non-UK SAM owners want to speak up and introduce themselves? David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 02:26:34 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980603010215Z49418-29866+494@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:23:23 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Manic Miner X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1087 Lines: 29 At 1:55 am +0100 3/6/98, David Ledbury at wrote: >A bit more on topic :) > >How far can any one on the channel get in each of the 3 caverns of >this SAM Classic :) Ages since I played it, but if I remeber correctly I've completed them all. Here's another question: How far have people got in Dyzonium? I've seen level eight... >BTW: Advert time! Manic Miner - available from Persona for a very >fair price! See www.persona.clara.net for details, or email >persona@clara.net for a full price list :) Wasn't there supposed to be a Manic Miner "remix" being worked on at some point? Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 02:35:11 1998 Message-ID: <3574A7B3.BAEB5FBE@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 02:32:35 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Manic Miner References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 713 Lines: 19 Andrew Collier wrote: > Here's another question: How far have people got in Dyzonium? I've seen > level eight... Are you serious?! If I'm thinking of the same game, I don't think I got past level 3 or 4! :) > Wasn't there supposed to be a Manic Miner "remix" being worked on at some > point? Not sure if this is what you are talking about, but something like that appeared on Fred 61. Could never work out if it was meant to be a demo for a new version of Manic Miner or if it was a free "Light" edition. -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 04:26:14 1998 Date: Wed, 3 Jun 98 03:03:52 GMT Message-ID: <1087_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> From: James@lhutz.demon.co.uk (James R Curry) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: OASIS Post Box (Atari) v1.31E Subject: Re: How dare you repost a priv X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 695 Lines: 31 In E-Mail <199806021044.KAA25718@chalca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> Ian Collier wrote:- >On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:53:18 -0700, David Ledbury said: > ^^^^^ > >Oh no, he's moved back to California... :-) > >imc > >Or should that be Seattle? > > Isn't Seattle 8 hours behind, IIRC? Simon? Denver on the other hand, 7 hours. __ James R Curry - James@lhutz.demon.co.uk "You're missing the point! The individual doesn't matter. It was a team effort, and I was the one who came up with the whole team idea...me!" - Homer Simpson, The Simpsons. Please insert meaningless promise about The Official James R Curry web page here... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 04:30:33 1998 Message-Id: <199806030326.FAA16608@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: The SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 05:23:55 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 892 Lines: 22 > Van: Andrew Collier > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: The SAM > Datum: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 2:33 > If Bob has any respect for other people on this list then he should do the > same. However, I think it has by now been firmly established that, in his > opinion, the rest of this list consists entirely of stuck-up know-it-all > kids who have no right to their own opinions because they're all so much > younger than himself and cannot possibly have any experience of anything, > so it is quite safe to reject their so-called knowledge in the safe > assumption that you were right all along. Its good to know that at the tender age of 33 (almost 34) I am still being considered to be a "Stuck-up know-it-all kid". :) -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 08:25:38 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:14:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Manic Miner In-reply-to: <3574A7B3.BAEB5FBE@purple.dircon.co.uk> Message-Id: <19980603072109Z49423-29866+554@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 761 Lines: 20 > Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 02:32:35 +0100 > From: Gavin Smith > > > Wasn't there supposed to be a Manic Miner "remix" being worked on at some > > point? > > Not sure if this is what you are talking about, but something like that appeared > on Fred 61. Could never work out if it was meant to be a demo for a new version > of Manic Miner or if it was a free "Light" edition. It was a demo for a new version, the idea being that anyone who had bought the original, could upgrade for a couple of quid. Fell by the wayside just before Phoenix was bought out by Mack... Unless of course Lee Willis wants to give it another shot? :) IIR I had planned Quazar Surround Soundcard support... Stereo Willies :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 09:59:19 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256618.0030C92F.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:56:24 +0100 Subject: Re: The SAM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 511 Lines: 15 >And here we have the root of the problem. You know more about some >things than people on the list; other people on the list know more >about other things than you. Isn't that what this list is all about? Everyone has different skill-sets and knowledge. Isn't this list so that all this wordly knowledge and talent can be merged and help each other out? Correct me if I'm wrong up there, but that is why i joined this list in the first place: to complement my own skills and talents with you lot. Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 09:59:20 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256618.00312D85.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:57:51 +0100 Subject: Re: The SAM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 279 Lines: 18 >> >Define Lass? Mid 20s, dark hair, short skirts...... Yep, could be arranged >> Sounds perfect... (so far) >she smokes :( That's okay.. I carry a "chat-up" lighter... >> >(you keep quiet Nev). >> That doesn't sound too good.... > >8-? Now I'm getting worried... Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 09:59:21 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256618.00314DFE.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:02:17 +0100 Subject: Re: The SAM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 431 Lines: 18 Gavin (probably regretting it, now) wrote: >I've never >pretended to have even half the knowledge you, Simon, David, Bob, Edwin, Justin >and a great many others have Wow... I've never been mentioned in the same list as Simon and co. before... Perhaps I should actually get around and do something SAM-like now I've got myself a half-decent SAM assembler (instead of playing Wipeout 2097 and Wing Commander IV... :) ) Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 10:20:02 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:17:03 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: World of SAM In-reply-to: <19980603010214Z49417-29866+493@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <378A44126AE@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 256 Lines: 11 > After looking at a recent listing of people on the mailing list, I > noticed a few unfamilar addresses from outside of the UK. > > Any non-UK SAM owners want to speak up and introduce themselves? > > David How did you get hold of this list? MJC. From imc Wed Jun 3 10:55:36 1998 Subject: Re: How dare you repost a priv To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:55:36 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <1087_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> from "James R Curry" at Jun 3, 98 03:03:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 346 Lines: 11 On Wed, 3 Jun 98 03:03:52 GMT, James R Curry said: > Ian Collier wrote:- > >On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:53:18 -0700, David Ledbury said: > > ^^^^^ > >Or should that be Seattle? > Isn't Seattle 8 hours behind, IIRC? Simon? Yes. But if you remember, we are on GMT+1 at the moment... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 11:02:58 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <378A44126AE@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> References: <19980603010214Z49417-29866+493@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:57:00 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: World of SAM X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1355 Lines: 41 At 10:17 am +0100 3/6/98, Matthew Craven wrote: >> After looking at a recent listing of people on the mailing list, I >> noticed a few unfamilar addresses from outside of the UK. >> >> Any non-UK SAM owners want to speak up and introduce themselves? >> >> David > >How did you get hold of this list? You have to send a message to the mailserver, with a blank subject line and commands in the body of the message. either to majordomo@nvg.ntnu.no with who sam-users or to sam-users-request@nvg.ntnu.no with who NB Frode, are we supposed to be using unit.no or ntnu.no? I thought you'd said it had changed from unit to ntnu, but most of the mails still refer to unit. I only ask because my mailer gets confused by some headers, so if I forget to check, once in a while I mail gets sent to both unit and ntnu, and appears on the list twice... Ho hum. Andrew -- +-----------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk | Get your kicks | +-----------------+----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 15:02:00 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM References: <36BDF016BA0@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 03 Jun 1998 14:50:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Matthew Craven"'s message of "Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:44 BST" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1054 Lines: 38 "Matthew Craven" writes: > Hi, > > The main thrust here is to ask: How would I do a kind of end-record > escape code or null terminator through Notepad (which is what the > list was produced with)? Try using TAB as a terminator? Alternatively write your own routine to compare the strings say that returns 0 if the strings match exactly(ie if both are 20 chars long and exactly the same), 1 if they match up to a space, and -1 if they different something like this maybe (This is C, I'm not sure what the difference would be for C++ sorry ;( ) int my_compare (char *temp, char*temp2) { int i=0; while (temp[i] == temp2[i] && i<20 && temp[i] != '\0' && temp2[i] !='\0') i++; if (i==20) return 0; if (temp[i]=='\0' && temp2[i]=='\0') return 0; if (temp[i]==' ' || temp2[i]==' ') return 1; return -1; } Actually that seems rather long winded you'd probably be better off doing some sort of truncation on the strings or something ... HTH Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 15:02:00 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Manic Miner References: <19980603072109Z49423-29866+554@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 03 Jun 1998 14:55:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: "David Ledbury at"'s message of "Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:14:22 +0000" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 881 Lines: 25 "David Ledbury at" writes: > > Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 02:32:35 +0100 > > From: Gavin Smith > > > > > Wasn't there supposed to be a Manic Miner "remix" being worked on at some > > > point? > > > > Not sure if this is what you are talking about, but something like that appeared > > on Fred 61. Could never work out if it was meant to be a demo for a new version > > of Manic Miner or if it was a free "Light" edition. > > It was a demo for a new version, the idea being that anyone who had > bought the original, could upgrade for a couple of quid. > > Fell by the wayside just before Phoenix was bought out by > Mack... Doh! That'd be my fault I s'pose which reminds me do you want the contents of those discs Dave as I've got them now ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 15:08:16 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM References: <11a28fdc.357469a0@aol.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 03 Jun 1998 15:03:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: 's message of "Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:07:43 EDT" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3216 Lines: 71 writes: > In a message dated 02/06/98 14:46:50, you write: > > Now don't flame me, this is just my own personal opinion. If I understand it, > Bob was involved in the early days of Sam, he is mentioned in the credits in > the Sam manual. He was involved in the Spectrum, the Disciple and the +D long > before Sam came out. Yep, no-one has argued against this it's a well-known fact :) > He has run his own business for a long time and, from his posting, I > gather he has been involved with computing since the year dot. Again no-one has said anything to the contrary ... > Now, if Bob is telling lies about his past expertise, then you have to > accept that MGT were wrong to get him to organise their official user > group, They didn't INDUG is exactly (Theoretically ;) ) what it says it is ie an INDEPENDENT User Group, nothing to do with MGT at all (Well except that Bob had strong connections and now has a hand in several of the major SAM companies but we won't go down that road again ...) > that MGT were wrong to use his skills in Swansea for so long. And more > than anything, that the thousands of Indug members over the years have > been wrong to deal with him. I don't think this at all in fact FORMAT and INDUG were of great use to me over the early years and helped my knowledge of the machine and enthusiasm for it grow immensely. > The alternative is to accept that after a long period of involvement with > computers, with Spectrums, with MGT, with Sam, with business and with everyday > users like myself, he just may know a bit more about things than someone like > Andrew. Not necessarily. He may know about business and other things like that but Andrew, Simon, Ian, and several others on this list (Apologies for the lack of names, I'm just setting a little example ;)) have proved themselves the best around when it comes to using the SAM and what seems to annoy people is Bob's insistence that he knows more about coding the SAM or the best way to acheive a particular goal in SAM code than the other members of this list who know a lot more than him _on those particular topics_. Many people will admit that Bob knows more about business than them etc. but Bob refuses to admit that anyone can know more than him on _anything_. That is the annoying thing. > Draw your own conclusions please. I'm not going to argue about it. Not once, > not never, no-way! I have drawn my own conclusions, I've seen numerous pieces of code by the above mentioned people and being a bit of a coder myself have looked at their code and can see that it's very well done, on the other hand I've never seen code by Bob, therefore I'm inclined to side with Andrew etc. in matters of code etc. than Bob especially when I know what I'm talking about and can see that their point of view is the better. I just wish that Bob could see that sometimes ... > Bill. [A calm voice of reason I hope.] I'd suggest that before you side with Bob on certain matters that you check out some of Andrew's work (And Bob's as well if you can find any :)) and then make up your mind about who knows how to use the machine to its fullest ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 15:08:26 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM References: <80256618.0030C92F.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 03 Jun 1998 15:04:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk's message of "Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:56:24 +0100" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 516 Lines: 16 Justin_Skists@case.co.uk writes: > >And here we have the root of the problem. You know more about some > >things than people on the list; other people on the list know more > >about other things than you. > > Isn't that what this list is all about? Everyone has different > skill-sets and knowledge. Isn't this list so that all this > wordly knowledge and talent can be merged and help each other out? Yep, except some people don't quite see it like that ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 19:10:49 1998 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:03:14 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Ian Dalziel Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! In-Reply-To: <35757fc1.1594042@post.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 366 Lines: 12 In article <35757fc1.1594042@post.demon.co.uk>, Nev Young writes >If that letter is now their property they can do what they want with >it, frame it, burn it, wipe their arse on it, publish it in a >newspaper. > >So why is the same not true of e-mail. Be interested to see you wipe your arse with an Email. -- Ian Dalziel From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 19:51:28 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:40:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! In-reply-to: References: <35757fc1.1594042@post.demon.co.uk> Message-Id: <19980603184717Z49383-29866+690@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 698 Lines: 18 > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:03:14 +0100 > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > From: Ian Dalziel > Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 98 19:33:37 BST > In article <35757fc1.1594042@post.demon.co.uk>, Nev Young block.nfy53.demon.co.uk> writes > >If that letter is now their property they can do what they want with > >it, frame it, burn it, wipe their arse on it, publish it in a > >newspaper. > > > >So why is the same not true of e-mail. > > Be interested to see you wipe your arse with an Email. Rather you than me :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 20:20:18 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:15:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM References: <19980602204106Z49420-29866+439@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> In-reply-to: <36CB9A2127A@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 831 Lines: 24 From: "Matthew Craven" > > Hold down ALT and type 0255. > > Think that's it... > > David > > I'll try it. > MJC. That just reminded me of when i was at school ( yes i know it was a while ago..) The fourth year kids, ( i was in the third), had been doing projects or something on an Apple II, and some how or other ( cant remember the details), I got hold of a disk with their stuff on it, and wanted to check it out. But whatever i did i couldnt load it. Later i discovered they cheated when saving the file, they put hidden characters in the name by using the CTRL key+ Char combi, so it only displayed the normal text, so looking like the file was there, but unless you also put the special chars in it wouldnt find it. Strange what you remember isn't it. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 20:31:18 1998 Message-Id: <199806031928.UAA31379@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:09:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM In-reply-to: <36BDF016BA0@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 710 Lines: 22 > has been read in previously. It seems to take each name as 20 chars > long, complete with trailing spaces, and so doesn't register a match > with any name I put in (with no spaces after it). Take the string, remove all trailing spaces from the end until you hit a character, then stop. Personally at this point I'd also uppercase it, for comparison, but that's dependant on what it's meant to do. So: while (thestring[length (thestring)] = ' ') delete (thestring, length(thestring), 1); {endwhile} (In pascal.) Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 20:31:18 1998 Message-Id: <199806031928.UAA31387@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:28:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: SimCoupe X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 488 Lines: 16 Hi, a) Anyone else get gcc locking when it tries to compile processr.c? I can still close the window, but gcc just sits there indefinitely. (Cyrix 200+/32RAM) b) Allan .. would you please consider distributing the next snapshot as a Rar file? :) I've just saved 150Kb-odd by rearchiving it! Ta, Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 20:56:37 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: POSTMASTER From: Samsboss@postmaster.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256618.006D6BF3.00@uks.postmaster.co.uk> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:55:50 +0100 Subject: Re: The SAM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 266 Lines: 15 | Bob/Bill/Samsboss (where is Samsboss, anyway?) nonsense... I'm here! Very busy, but still reading. -- Samsboss - The One And Only. Accept No Others. ___________________________________ To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:01:20 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: POSTMASTER From: Samsboss@postmaster.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256618.006DC969.00@uks.postmaster.co.uk> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:59:19 +0100 Subject: Re: The SAM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 294 Lines: 16 [snip] | | Define Lass? Mid 20s, dark hair, short skirts...... Yep, could be arranged | (you keep quiet Nev). Can I speak then ;-) -- Samsboss - The One And Only. Accept No Others. ___________________________________ To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:17:05 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <9fbae497.3575adfe@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:11:41 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Robert is the idiot, and proves it yet again!!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 431 Lines: 12 In a message dated 02/06/98 22:21:04, you write: > > That is excactly the reply you send me in your so-called private email, > well sorry mr. Ritman but I fail to see what is so private about this, do > you really expect that I am going to sit up straight and do nothing while I > recieve something like this. > If your thick head can't get round the simple concept of PRIVATE then I what hope is there for you. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:17:05 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:11:46 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The SAM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 6246 Lines: 123 In a message dated 03/06/98 00:34:05, you write: > At 10:07 pm +0100 2/6/98, wrote: > > >The alternative is to accept that after a long period of involvement with > >computers, with Spectrums, with MGT, with Sam, with business and with > everyday > >users like myself, he just may know a bit more about things than someone > like > >Andrew. > > Just what exactly was "someone like Andrew" meant to mean? I sounds like > some sort of half-hearted insult, as if you could only just bring yourself > to even mention my name. Ah good, you took it as I intended. > > And what "things" exactly? Be specific Bill. >From what I've read from you over a period of time I think /things/ means just about everything. > > Generalisation is a Bad Thing. As has so carefully been pointed out on more > than one occasion, different people have different knowledge about > different things. My particular niche is Sam machine code programming, and > Bob simply cannot reasonably claim to know more about that than me. But that is taking a very narrow stand point isn't it? > > I don't claim to know anything about the +D, much about the Spectrum, I > never worked for MGT or SamCo and I don't run INDUG (which, as far as I was > aware is an INDependent User Group and not an official MGT organization). > I'm happy to accept that this is Bob's area; I don't claim to beat him > there, and I never have. And yet you constantly tell him how to run his business and belittle every effort he makes. Always with the rather childish "prove you know as much as me about Sam machine code programming - or I will not take you seriously". As I said, a very narrow view. > > But I do know other "things" in a lot of detail. I've been using computers > for as long as I can remeber. As for the Sam; I've worked with it, coded > for it, and pushed it to the technical limits. I formed the MNEMOtech > coding group, I've had software published as PD, on Fred, and commercially. > I write various articles in various fanzines. By writing software and > encouraging others to do likewise, I have been doing my bit to help keep > Sam alive. This is my area. Ah, one of the coders of stupid demos. Well, you may think you have done your little bit for Sam, but how much money for the Sam world have you generated? > > So why does Bob insist he knows everything about everything? Why should his > background *necessarily* mean that you should take it as read that he is > right? It would be far more sensible to read the discussions and establish > who knows more about each particular topic on an individual basis. And why should your background, which you have admitted is far narrower than Bob's, make your position more tenable than his. Let me take an example. Bob puts forward the need for the SRAM card to redevelop the ROM and DOS. You seem to go out of your way to argue that it is not necessary. You base your possition on your machine code experiance. Bob based his on his machine code experiance, the findings of work he did with Nev on HDOS, his knowledge of the Sam and its users, and his long experiance with computer in general. He points out the problems of not being able to extend HDOS because of the bugs or whatever in the ROM. He also I seem to remember explained that he felt such a project would help people understand what was in the ROM/DOS system, in itself a worthwhile project I would have thought, and would give people the chance to work together, to get used to working in a project with others and working to standards and timescales. Now, after a while, Bob begins to get fed up with your constant argument against the project (I know others argued as well, but you have to accept that you led the way most of the time). Your responce its to further belittle his efforts. The responce of others is to throw any form of mud they can find at him - including one idiot that actually called him an idiot in front of this group for something that took place outside this group, something that had nothing whatsoever to do with the person who posted the message, and something that by reading CSS seems to have been finished there with everyone happy. > > And wheras you'll find Bob using arguments such as "I'm right. I know I'm > right. You should know I'm right because I'm Bob and I've been involved > with the Sam for more years than anyone else. You stupid idiot, can't you > see I'm right! You are a braindead fool for not accepting that I am right > so I will not listen to you any more." you'll find that I go to > considerable effort to explain and justify my viewpoints. But at the end of the day - you admit that your narrow viewpoint in far from as wide as Bob's view on things. Can you not accept that having taken your views on board he has come to a different conclusion because he is looking a a wider picture than you are? > > If Bob has any respect for other people on this list then he should do the > same. However, I think it has by now been firmly established that, in his > opinion, the rest of this list consists entirely of stuck-up know-it-all > kids who have no right to their own opinions because they're all so much > younger than himself and cannot possibly have any experience of anything, > so it is quite safe to reject their so-called knowledge in the safe > assumption that you were right all along. I think in part that he may be right. Only in part. Certainly you seem to take zero notice of what he says. You certainly show no respect for what he has done for Sam over the years - that in itself is rather childish. > > And if anyone wants to follow up to this, be specific. Quote examples. > Prove something. This constant need for proof. Another very childish trait you seem to have. Life is not black and white, nor is it full of proofs. When you go out into the real world you are going to find this. Sometimes you just have to accept things until you can prove otherwise. And if you would like to prove on of Bob's major tenets wrong, by say proving that there is no need to redo the ROM/DOS to allow HDOS to extend Masterdos as it should, then I'm sure he will pay attention. > > Andrew > > Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:17:05 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:11:47 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 772 Lines: 25 In a message dated 03/06/98 18:15:34, you write: > In article <35757fc1.1594042@post.demon.co.uk>, Nev Young block.nfy53.demon.co.uk> writes > >If that letter is now their property they can do what they want with > >it, frame it, burn it, wipe their arse on it, publish it in a > >newspaper. > > > >So why is the same not true of e-mail. > > Be interested to see you wipe your arse with an Email. > > -- > Ian Dalziel For some strange reason the original hasn't arrived, so I'll reply to this instead. Sorry Nev, but emails are copyright in just the same way as letters. The paper/electronic image may belong to the receipient but the contents as as copyright as anything else. See: http://www.benedict.com/fund.htm#Top Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:42:01 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Unofficial SAM tech man. Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:31:57 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bd8f2e$a76c4480$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <80256617.0043C300.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 710 Lines: 18 > Only one word can discribe this manual: WOW!!!! > > I'm oogling with delight waiting for the rest of the tech manual to > be written! Lot's more example source code (and explanations) than the > official one and looking at the contents page, it has a hell of a lot > more useful info!!! Mind you, the new version will have some of that stuff taken out and replaced with other bits and bobs... Like possible ways of replacing SAM BASIC style strings with immutable objects (though that might just appear on the BOAI website). Anyone willing to contribute a section -- anything from how to quickly scroll areas of the screen, to fast sprite printing, to anything under the sun, is more than welcome. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:50:24 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: INDUG and the Internet. Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:37:07 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bd8f2f$5fef6000$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199806022340.AAA09064@ruby.comlab> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 595 Lines: 16 > On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:24:12 -0400, Simon Cooke said: > > Word document at first; other formats later. > > Aargh. Thank heavens for Dan's PDF version. HTML would be ideal, really, > if it's going to be on the web. I promise I'll see what I can do :) I'm going to write it in word, it'll be easy to spool off an RTF version. I *may* be able to spool out a postscript version (it depends on whether or not I've got a driver for it). The HTML version will take a little time (I'll use Frontpage and cut & paste, rather than use Word to generate it, as Word's HTML engine is horrible) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:50:24 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: How dare you repost a priv Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:37:09 -0400 Message-ID: <000601bd8f2f$610515c0$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <1087_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 95 Lines: 5 > Isn't Seattle 8 hours behind, IIRC? Simon? Yup, and I'm not looking forwards to it. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:50:25 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:37:05 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bd8f2f$5f05ea60$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <11a28fdc.357469a0@aol.com> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 506 Lines: 14 > The alternative is to accept that after a long period of involvement with > computers, with Spectrums, with MGT, with Sam, with business and > with everyday > users like myself, he just may know a bit more about things than > someone like > Andrew. On business issues to do specifically with the SAM, maybe. Technical issues -- no way. Myself, Andrew, and Dave Zambonini (to name but three) are in the top 20 coders on the machine. We know more about it from experience than I'd wager Bob does. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:50:25 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:42:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000801bd8f30$19c22d00$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 453 Lines: 14 > In article <35757fc1.1594042@post.demon.co.uk>, Nev Young block.nfy53.demon.co.uk> writes > >If that letter is now their property they can do what they want with > >it, frame it, burn it, wipe their arse on it, publish it in a > >newspaper. > > > >So why is the same not true of e-mail. > > Be interested to see you wipe your arse with an Email. It's problematic; namely because it stains the monitor and voids your warranty. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:50:25 1998 Message-Id: <199806032044.WAA22702@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: The SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:44:49 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 913 Lines: 25 > Van: BillRitman@aol.com > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: The SAM > Datum: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 10:11 > Ah, one of the coders of stupid demos. Well, you may think you have done your > little bit for Sam, but how much money for the Sam world have you generated? Aha so it comes down to earning money after all, did it come to your tiny mind that some of us actually don't give shit about making some money from the Sam but that they are just doing some coding, programming or making some music or graphics because it is FUN. And why are DEMO's stupid? is that because they are FREE and PD? And that it uses resources that actually should have being spend on making some money from the SAM? Stupid Demo Coders, Bob said something like that once I believe. -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:50:28 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Not a lot to do with SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:42:20 -0400 Message-ID: <000901bd8f30$1ac59340$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 601 Lines: 17 > Later i discovered they cheated when saving the file, they put > hidden characters > in the name by using the CTRL key+ Char combi, so it only displayed the > normal text, so looking like the file was there, but unless you > also put the > special chars in it wouldnt find it. > > Strange what you remember isn't it. You could do the same on the BBC micro; using VDU characters, you could set the title of a disk to flashing red, put up a "WARNING" message, and turn off the VDU, so that the only way out was to hit CTRL-BREAK. Great fun if you didn't want people to mess with your disks. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:57:47 1998 Message-ID: <3575B768.7DBAD2E0@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 21:51:52 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM References: <199806032044.WAA22702@mailserv.caiw.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1009 Lines: 22 Robert van der Veeke wrote: > Aha so it comes down to earning money after all, did it come to your tiny > mind that some of us actually don't give shit about making some money from > the Sam but that they are just doing some coding, programming or making > some music or graphics because it is FUN. And for the love of the machine. Nothing wrong, of course, from making money from it, but I think doing something for free, for other people, shows exactly how much they love the machine. (My girlfriend always get jealous the way I talk about love for the SAM Coupe *grins*) > Stupid Demo Coders, Bob said something like that once I believe. Exact words. The opposite is true of course, perhaps a little bit of jealousy, Bob, that you can't code half as well (if it all!)? (I know I'm bloody jealous!) -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 21:57:47 1998 Message-ID: <3575B805.D871538C@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 21:54:29 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: References: <000801bd8f30$19c22d00$4826accf@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 517 Lines: 15 Simon Cooke wrote: > > Be interested to see you wipe your arse with an Email. > > It's problematic; namely because it stains the monitor and voids your > warranty. > > Simon It would be interesting to be the tech support guy though... "You've shite on your screen? Oh that's normal sir, that's just Windows 95" -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Users as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.shudehill.demon.co.uk/thelocal * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 22:07:54 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:55:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01bd8f31$f88e80a0$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2506 Lines: 56 > Ah, one of the coders of stupid demos. Well, you may think you > have done your > little bit for Sam, but how much money for the Sam world have you > generated? Do you know what publicity those demos created? Those "stupid" demos actually gave the SAM world something to live for, even at the start. Take SCPDU, for example. Take the Star Trek and Megablast demos which (at one point, I believe) sold more copies of FRED disk magazine than anything else, and were also featured in Crash! Magazine. Do you know how many games people have tried writing and given up on because they found out that there was no way to get them running at the speed required to make them playable? And do you know how many games only got working because people used "stupid demo coder" techniques to get them to work? This stupid demo coder right here was involved in Prince of Persia, Lemmings, Exodus and Parallax. All good selling games. Lemmings and Exodus only have music while you're playing because of "stupid demo coder" work. So basically... be careful when you ask "how much money for the SAM world have you generated?" Also, that's not important anyway. Demo coding lets you learn the specifics of the machine, learn ways to try and get around its limitations, and then gets you incredibly disheartened when you realise that the machine is seriously underpowered. They provide entertainment for people (that people will pay money for! - see FRED), and provide entertainment for yourself. They show off the machine, encourage other people to start coding, and draw in new blood. [snip] > This constant need for proof. Another very childish trait you > seem to have. > Life is not black and white, nor is it full of proofs. When you > go out into > the real world you are going to find this. Sometimes you just > have to accept > things until you can prove otherwise. And if you would like to prove on of > Bob's major tenets wrong, by say proving that there is no need to redo the > ROM/DOS to allow HDOS to extend Masterdos as it should, then I'm > sure he will > pay attention. Redoing the ROM will screw up existing programs. No-one knows how many programs will break. MasterDOS is designed so as to allow extension. It works. There are bugs in SAM Basic sure (the main one being the page overflow bug which can screw up large programs). They could be fixed. But extensive rewrites? The MasterDOS source is up on NVG. Feel free to look at it, and then tell me what you think the way forwards is. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 22:07:54 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:55:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01bd8f31$fa5229a0$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199806032044.WAA22702@mailserv.caiw.nl> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 609 Lines: 18 > Aha so it comes down to earning money after all, did it come to your tiny > mind that some of us actually don't give shit about making some money from > the Sam but that they are just doing some coding, programming or making > some music or graphics because it is FUN. > > And why are DEMO's stupid? is that because they are FREE and PD? And that > it uses resources that actually should have being spend on making some > money from the SAM? > > Stupid Demo Coders, Bob said something like that once I believe. Coming soon on my SAM website: Print your own Not Just Stupid Demo Coders T-shirt. :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 22:07:54 1998 From: PGLOVER43 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:58:05 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Formidable Ale and Scousers. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 168 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 457 Lines: 10 I've never tried Cain's Formidable Ale in can form, but it's good on traditional draught, as is Cain's Best Bitter. It sometimes appears in free houses in Brum, and usually in good nick. Regarding scousers, I hope nobody starts a pro and anti discussion on SAM- users. We've enough arguments running as it is. Anyway, I'm sure some must own SAMs, so they can't be all bad (although I enjoy watching the Scousers as done by Harry Enfield....) Phil Glover. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 22:21:15 1998 From: nevilley@spamblock.nfy53.demon.co.uk (Nev Young) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 21:15:11 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <3575b1af.608095@post.demon.co.uk> References: <35757fc1.1594042@post.demon.co.uk> <19980603184717Z49383-29866+690@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> In-Reply-To: <19980603184717Z49383-29866+690@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 628 Lines: 20 On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:40:37 +0000, "David Ledbury at" wrote: > > In article <35757fc1.1594042@post.demon.co.uk>, Nev Young > block.nfy53.demon.co.uk> writes > > >If that letter is now their property they can do what they want with > > >it, frame it, burn it, wipe their arse on it, publish it in a > > >newspaper. > > > > > >So why is the same not true of e-mail. > > Be interested to see you wipe your arse with an Email. > Rather you than me :) Oh bugger ! Now I need a cloth to clean the screen. :-) -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 22:21:15 1998 From: nevilley@spamblock.nfy53.demon.co.uk (Nev Young) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 21:15:13 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <3576b249.762371@post.demon.co.uk> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 505 Lines: 16 On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:11:47 EDT, wrote: > In a message dated 03/06/98 18:15:34, you write: > For some strange reason the original hasn't arrived, so I'll reply to this > instead. I'm prolly in your kill file. > > Sorry Nev, but emails are copyright in just the same way as letters. The > paper/electronic image may belong to the receipient but the contents as > as copyright as anything else. > -- Nev - parts of this message are free of copyright. use them as you will. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 22:35:09 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:33:09 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <80256618.006D6BF3.00@uks.postmaster.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <384E8413A4A@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 220 Lines: 8 > | Bob/Bill/Samsboss (where is Samsboss, anyway?) nonsense... > I'm here! > Very busy, but still reading. Good that's alright then. You have an entitlement to read the messages as you are a member of this list. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 22:46:43 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:35:50 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: In-reply-to: <000801bd8f30$19c22d00$4826accf@default> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <384F4385B1F@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 257 Lines: 9 > > >So why is the same not true of e-mail. > > Be interested to see you wipe your arse with an Email. > It's problematic; namely because it stains the monitor and voids your > warranty. > Simon It would be a nice new windows colour scheme though :) MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 22:46:44 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:32:03 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: The SAM In-reply-to: <000c01bd8f31$fa5229a0$4826accf@default> References: <199806032044.WAA22702@mailserv.caiw.nl> Message-Id: <19980603213852Z49474-29866+710@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 495 Lines: 14 > From: "Simon Cooke" > To: > Subject: RE: The SAM > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:55:45 -0400 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 98 22:32:02 BST > > > > Stupid Demo Coders, Bob said something like that once I believe. > > Coming soon on my SAM website: Print your own Not Just Stupid Demo Coders > T-shirt. > What ever happened to MY Entropy t-shirt ? ;) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 22:46:45 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:35:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: The SAM In-reply-to: <000b01bd8f31$f88e80a0$4826accf@default> References: Message-Id: <19980603214203Z49487-29866+711@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1106 Lines: 29 > From: "Simon Cooke" > To: > Subject: RE: The SAM > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:55:42 -0400 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 98 22:32:03 BST > > Ah, one of the coders of stupid demos. Well, you may think you > > have done your > > little bit for Sam, but how much money for the Sam world have you > > generated? > > Do you know what publicity those demos created? Those "stupid" demos > actually gave the SAM world something to live for, even at the start. Take > SCPDU, for example. Take the Star Trek and Megablast demos which (at one > point, I believe) sold more copies of FRED disk magazine than anything else, > and were also featured in Crash! Magazine. I remember at several shows people asking me "is that an Amiga" after seeing a SAM Demo in action.... Imagine their surprise when seeing that it was a SAM in action. Surely ADVERTISING is a form of cash generation? And before u ask... I've had a hell of a lot of experience in THAT area ;) David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 22:59:41 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:55:27 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <38547C16A94@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1298 Lines: 34 Hi, > Ah, one of the coders of stupid demos. Well, you may think you have done your > little bit for Sam, but how much money for the Sam world have you generated? Stupid demos?!?!?!?!?!? If there were none of these stupid demos, the SAM might well have gone down like a shot. It's those demos and PD magazines that we are all talking about that built the SAM. People telling everybody how good is it does not seem to get as much a result as actually SHOWING everybody how good it is. How good it is that people who care enough to do it for a hobby can get excellent results that compare in most areas with the 16 bit machines, with an 8-bit machine! [.....] > > so it is quite safe to reject their so-called knowledge in the safe > > assumption that you were right all along. > > I think in part that he may be right. Only in part. Certainly you seem to take > zero notice of what he says. You certainly show no respect for what he has > done for Sam over the years - that in itself is rather childish. Ok, if we take zero notice of what he says, why do we bother to reply to correct him? > Life is not black and white, nor is it full of proofs. Wow Bill's giving Quantum Mechanics a go now :) Can we build a quantum SAM now? I wonder how long that'll take... > Bill. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 23:18:08 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:56:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM References: In-reply-to: <38547C16A94@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Message-Id: <19980603220333Z49487-29866+721@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 169 Lines: 3 > From: "Matthew Craven" > > Life is not black and white, nor is it full of proofs. I'm glad to see there's an R in that word ;) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 23:18:08 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:58:51 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd8f3a$cb6c7600$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <19980603214203Z49487-29866+711@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 427 Lines: 14 > > Do you know what publicity those demos created? Those "stupid" demos > > actually gave the SAM world something to live for, even at the > start. Take > > SCPDU, for example. Take the Star Trek and Megablast demos which (at one > > point, I believe) sold more copies of FRED disk magazine than > anything else, > > and were also featured in Crash! Magazine. Oooooops! Wrong acronym. I meant the SCPDSA, not SCPDU. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 23:18:08 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:12:54 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM References: <38547C16A94@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> In-reply-to: <19980603220333Z49487-29866+721@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <38592132DA2@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 404 Lines: 13 > From: "David Ledbury at" > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:56:50 +0000 > Subject: Re: The SAM > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > > From: "Matthew Craven" > > > Life is not black and white, nor is it full of proofs. > I'm glad to see there's an R in that word ;) eh? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 23:18:09 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:58:54 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd8f3a$ccb2ffc0$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <19980603213852Z49474-29866+710@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 311 Lines: 12 > > Coming soon on my SAM website: Print your own Not Just Stupid > Demo Coders > > T-shirt. > > > What ever happened to MY Entropy t-shirt ? ;) Hey! I couldn't afford to print them for everyone... (besides, there's two other people ahead of you in the queue, who did pay for them, but didn't get one) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 23:18:09 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:09:25 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! In-reply-to: <3575b1af.608095@post.demon.co.uk> References: <19980603184717Z49383-29866+690@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <3858383105C@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 191 Lines: 12 > Oh bugger ! > Now I need a cloth to clean the screen. > > :-) > > -- > Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk > and getting no spam at all (yet) Is that message freeware Nev? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 23:24:26 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:20:03 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: The SAM X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 8069 Lines: 186 Note to purists: This is only a short reply (or at least, much shorter than it *could* have been) - so quite a lot of the quoted message is removed. At 9:11 pm +0100 3/6/98, wrote: >> And what "things" exactly? Be specific Bill. > >>From what I've read from you over a period of time I think /things/ means >>just >about everything. That's specific? >And yet you constantly tell him how to run his business Stop right there, and find me an example of me telling Bob how to run his business. >and belittle every effort he makes. Again, I take issue with the way you've phrased this. I don't belittle his efforts - I correct errors and I point out enhancements. These flamewars *never* start by me insulting him, usually the other way round and if he would accept constructive criticism without taking undue offense then not only would sam-users be a nicer mailing list, Bob would also release better products. >Always with the rather childish "prove you know as much as me >about Sam machine code programming - or I will not take you seriously". As I >said, a very narrow view. Just watch it, Bill. Your view seems just as narrow if not more so. You don't seem to want to take me seriously no matter what I can prove prove to you. >Ah, one of the coders of stupid demos. Not to belittle my efforts or anything... Just watch it, Bill. >Well, you may think you have done your >little bit for Sam, but how much money for the Sam world have you generated? Now how much have we discussed this recently? The rest of us code for the Sam because we like it, not for the money. But for the record, probably a few hundred pounds at a guess. Syncytium sold literally several copies, Zodiac had well over a hundred readers at it's peak when I was writing just about half the magazine, and whether you personally like demos or not I'll willing to bet that MNEMOtech's programs on Fred will have helped encourage a few people to renew their subscriptions. And that's not counting about five hundred quid I've injected into the Sam market by buying other people's products. And now, ladies and gentlemen, I invite a response from my assailant... To fire the question back at you: How much of that have *you* done? >Bob puts forward the need for the SRAM card to redevelop the ROM and DOS. You >seem to go out of your way to argue that it is not necessary. Again, untrue. I argued that the SRAM doesn't do _enough_ - not that it's unnecessary. >for something that took place outside this group, something that had >nothing whatsoever to do with the person who posted the message, and something >that by reading CSS seems to have been finished there with everyone happy. IMHO if it's relevant to sam users, then it's relevant to sam-users. Only Robert can decide what's relevant to himself as a sam user. Not you, not me, and not anybody else. If Robert thought that message was relevant to sam users, then it was a perfectly acceptable sam-users thread - there can be no other definition of relevancy since this list has no charter AFAIK. >But at the end of the day - you admit that your narrow viewpoint in far from >as wide as Bob's view on things. Can you not accept that having taken your >views on board he has come to a different conclusion because he is looking a a >wider picture than you are? You could say that my "viewpoint" is narrow, but very deep. And you know what they say about the "jack of all trades"..... Besides, if I argue a point about machine code, very often the other experience is entirely irrelevant. >> If Bob has any respect for other people on this list then he should do the >> same. However, I think it has by now been firmly established that, in his >> opinion, the rest of this list consists entirely of stuck-up know-it-all >> kids who have no right to their own opinions because they're all so much >> younger than himself and cannot possibly have any experience of anything, >> so it is quite safe to reject their so-called knowledge in the safe >> assumption that you were right all along. > >I think in part that he may be right. Only in part. Certainly you seem to take >zero notice of what he says. I read what he writes. I consider it, and in many cases I reject it - but only because it contradicts with my experiences of using and progarmming the Sam. I will reply to his message, pointing out where and why it contradicts, sometimes offering an alternative solution. He'll say I'm wrong, and more or less repeat his first message. That's as far as logical discussion ever seems to go on this list: Disagree with Bob and - BINGO! We're stuck in a Dollis Hill infinity loop. How can you possibly expect *anyone* to be convinced of any argument, if the only apologetics are of the form "I'm right."? The _only_ way to help the discussion move forward is to illustrate and demonstrate your points in as many ways as possible. >You certainly show no respect for what he has >done for Sam over the years - that in itself is rather childish. Just watch it, Bill - it's also not true. For example, go back to the thread on Format and READ what I posted; I was just about the only one NOT saying that Format was crap. >> And if anyone wants to follow up to this, be specific. Quote examples. >> Prove something. > >This constant need for proof. Quite the reverse actually. Only a child would ever put unquestioning trust in other people's words. But the reason I said that, was that I'm getting fed up by you making random comments to insult me, without backing them up, and without giving any indication of why you even think they're true in the first place. And you have continued doing it: >Another very childish trait you seem to have. "Another", in addition to exactly what else? Just watch it, Bill. Wouldn't you get a little irritated if I started adding incessant "Bill obviously knows nothing about this" one-liners to the bottom of my emails, whether they had anything to do with you or not? I think you probably would. >Life is not black and white, nor is it full of proofs. I'm a scientist. Everything can be proved.... it's just that the human race hasn't discovered all the answers, yet. >When you go out into the real world you are going to find this. My oh my - you've got something against students, don't you? Just watch it, Bill. >And if you would like to prove on of >Bob's major tenets wrong, by say proving that there is no need to redo the >ROM/DOS to allow HDOS to extend Masterdos as it should, then I'm sure he will >pay attention. BDOS? Anyway - the ROM was designed with extension in mind. MasterDos and MasterBasic both "patch" into BASIC routines. But MasterDos was not designed to be extended, or at least not nearly to the same extent. So trying to have HDOS patch MasterDos is probably a bit of a non-starter. If BDOS isn't good enough for you; since the MasterDos source is now available, it seems pretty obvious that the first step is to add the hard disk handling code in there, rather than trying to patch it from the outside. Probably sidestepping the "not returning from routines properly" problems. But obviously, Bill knows nothing about this.[1] Now. Unless you have *specific* and *new* viewpoints to add, can we drop this please? I'm fed up with sitting here talking about talking about the Sam. I want a mailing list that will help me talk about the Sam instead. Andrew [1] Read a few paragraphs previously before you take that comment the wrong way[2]. [2] On second thoughts, what do I care? Take that comment however you like... -- +----------------+-----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | Get your kicks | +----------------+-----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 23:33:28 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000c01bd8f31$fa5229a0$4826accf@default> References: <199806032044.WAA22702@mailserv.caiw.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:27:04 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: RE: The SAM X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 829 Lines: 26 At 9:55 pm +0100 3/6/98, Simon Cooke wrote: >> Stupid Demo Coders, Bob said something like that once I believe. > >Coming soon on my SAM website: Print your own Not Just Stupid Demo Coders >T-shirt. > >:) What, with an Entropy logo on it? Perhaps I'd be better off desgning my own.... "MNEMOtech puts the M in codiMng" :) Andrew -- +----------------+-----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | Get your kicks | +----------------+-----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 23:44:07 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:29:58 -0400 Message-ID: <000901bd8f3f$23f65620$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 232 Lines: 14 > What, with an Entropy logo on it? Perhaps I'd be better off > desgning my own.... > > "MNEMOtech puts the M in codiMng" > > :) *grins* Well, yeah, there is that I suppose :) I prefer the MNEMOtech one to be honest ;) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 23:44:08 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:34:13 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01bd8f3f$bbdd5c40$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <000901bd8f3f$23f65620$4826accf@default> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 437 Lines: 20 > > What, with an Entropy logo on it? Perhaps I'd be better off > > desgning my own.... > > > > "MNEMOtech puts the M in codiMng" > > > > :) > > *grins* > > Well, yeah, there is that I suppose :) > > I prefer the MNEMOtech one to be honest ;) MNEMOtech T-shirt idea, that is -- I still prefer my logo :) (though even that's changing - check out the entropy pages on my site now: http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc/entropy ) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 3 23:44:08 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:37:43 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <385FC120A46@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 923 Lines: 30 > And now, ladies and gentlemen, I invite a response from my assailant... > To fire the question back at you: How much of that have *you* done? He'll never answer that. > >This constant need for proof. > > Wouldn't you get a little irritated if I started adding incessant "Bill > obviously knows nothing about this" one-liners to the bottom of my emails, > whether they had anything to do with you or not? I think you probably would. This could be quite fun to see :) > >Life is not black and white, nor is it full of proofs. > > I'm a scientist. Everything can be proved.... it's just that the human race > hasn't discovered all the answers, yet. Not when you use the Bob or Bill logic. > >When you go out into the real world you are going to find this. > > My oh my - you've got something against students, don't you? Just watch it, > Bill. Hmmm.... this sounds remarkably like Bob as well. > Andrew MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 00:17:15 1998 Message-Id: <199806032307.AAA32472@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:07:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM In-reply-to: <80256618.0030C92F.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 714 Lines: 16 > Isn't that what this list is all about? Everyone has different > skill-sets and knowledge. Isn't this list so that all this > wordly knowledge and talent can be merged and help each other out? Yes, it is, but unfortunately some people (more than just one) have forgotten this, and assume that they're always right on every topic. It's a simple fact that no-one is right 100% of the time, eg I know little about 3D programming, but probably more about coding PBM games, Fidonet utilities etc. than anyone else on the list. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 00:17:15 1998 Message-Id: <199806032307.AAA32459@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:07:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! In-reply-to: References: <35757fc1.1594042@post.demon.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 299 Lines: 9 > Be interested to see you wipe your arse with an Email. That could hurt. How would you get the monitor up there? Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 00:23:01 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:18:07 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Bob is a Idiot!!!!!!! but not as big an idiot as Robert!!! In-reply-to: <199806032307.AAA32459@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <386A8A77242@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 215 Lines: 6 > > Be interested to see you wipe your arse with an Email. > > That could hurt. How would you get the monitor up there? > Well he must have a big bottom. There are those who say he does enough talking out of it. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 00:23:02 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:19:45 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM In-reply-to: <199806031928.UAA31379@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> References: <36BDF016BA0@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <386AFB34A2C@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 311 Lines: 13 > So: > > while (thestring[length (thestring)] = ' ') > delete (thestring, length(thestring), 1); > {endwhile} > > (In pascal.) That's fine, except that I only did a few programming classes in Pascal until that narked me off enough and I changed to Maths. So can you tell me what that is in C++? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 00:28:54 1998 Message-Id: <199806032325.AAA02349@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:25:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM References: <199806031928.UAA31379@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> In-reply-to: <386AFB34A2C@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 530 Lines: 14 > That's fine, except that I only did a few programming classes in > Pascal until that narked me off enough and I changed to Maths. So can > you tell me what that is in C++? Unfortunately not, since I don't speak C that well. However, I'm sure we have some amazing people who are equally well versed in Pascal *and* C on the list.. anyone? Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 00:37:35 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000b01bd8f3f$bbdd5c40$4826accf@default> References: <000901bd8f3f$23f65620$4826accf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:34:42 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: RE: The SAM X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1165 Lines: 36 At 11:34 pm +0100 3/6/98, Simon Cooke wrote: >> > What, with an Entropy logo on it? Perhaps I'd be better off >> > desgning my own.... >> > >> > "MNEMOtech puts the M in codiMng" >> > >> > :) >> >> *grins* >> >> Well, yeah, there is that I suppose :) >> >> I prefer the MNEMOtech one to be honest ;) > >MNEMOtech T-shirt idea, that is -- I still prefer my logo :) > >(though even that's changing - check out the entropy pages on my site now: >http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc/entropy ) Hmmm... looks cool - but that circular, lower case 'e' on a space-type background... kinda reminds me of the MS Internet Explorer logo? NB: I like the Statues of Ice page... Andrew -- +----------------+-----------------------------+--------------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | " | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | Get your kicks | +----------------+-----------------------------+ on 8.124038405 | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | " | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | anon | +----------------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 00:49:09 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:44:17 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM References: "Matthew Craven"'s message of "Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:44 BST" In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <3871805208A@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 128 Lines: 6 > Try using TAB as a terminator? I just tried that Lee, but it reckonises the tab as a character! This is ridiculous :) MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 00:59:23 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:55:04 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM In-reply-to: <199806022352.AAA09164@ruby.comlab> References: <36EF67C2631@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> from Matthew Craven at "Jun 3, 98 00:36:19 am" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <38745CE4C49@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 192 Lines: 8 > char *trunc(char *s){ > int i=strlen(s);while(i--&&isspace(s[i]));s[i]=0;return s; > } I typed in exactly that and it gave me a declaration syntax error for the procedure above! MJC. From imc Thu Jun 4 01:05:46 1998 Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM In-Reply-To: <38745CE4C49@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> from Matthew Craven at "Jun 4, 98 00:55:04 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:05:46 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 465 Lines: 13 On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:55:04 BST, Matthew Craven said: > > char *trunc(char *s){ > > int i=strlen(s);while(i--&&isspace(s[i]));s[i]=0;return s; > > } > I typed in exactly that and it gave me a declaration syntax error for > the procedure above! Well it works in C [except in that I made a mistake; having worked out carefully that it should be s[++i]=0 at the end I forgot the ++]. I've never understood what people see in C++. Just stick with C I say. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 01:10:40 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: The SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:56:36 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd8f4b$3e657e80$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 502 Lines: 18 > >MNEMOtech T-shirt idea, that is -- I still prefer my logo :) > > > >(though even that's changing - check out the entropy pages on my > site now: > >http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc/entropy ) > > Hmmm... looks cool - but that circular, lower case 'e' on a space-type > background... kinda reminds me of the MS Internet Explorer logo? Oh Shazzbott. I forgot about that logo. Damn! Ah well.. I'll just design a new one :) > NB: I like the Statues of Ice page... It even works on SIMCoupe! Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 01:10:41 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Not a lot to do with SAM Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:58:53 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd8f4b$8feaf0a0$4826accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <38745CE4C49@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 764 Lines: 34 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no [mailto:owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no]On > Behalf Of Matthew Craven > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 8:55 PM > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM > > > > char *trunc(char *s){ > > int i=strlen(s);while(i--&&isspace(s[i]));s[i]=0;return s; > > } > > I typed in exactly that and it gave me a declaration syntax error for > the procedure above! > > MJC. Hmmm... that's valid C++... but some compilers complain at it (and if you're using UMIST's doddery old ones, then you're in trouble) try this: char *trunc(char *s) { int i = strlen(s); while (i-- && isspace(s[i])) { } s[i]=0; return s; } and if that fails, put the int i on its own, separate line. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 01:10:41 1998 Message-Id: <199806040003.BAA06369@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:03:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM References: <199806022352.AAA09164@ruby.comlab> In-reply-to: <38745CE4C49@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 414 Lines: 20 > > char *trunc(char *s){ > > int i=strlen(s);while(i--&&isspace(s[i]));s[i]=0;return s; > > } Try fiddling with char *trunc(char *s){ while (int i=strlen(s); isspace(s[i]); i++) s[i] = 0; return s; } That should work. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From imc Thu Jun 4 01:14:28 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM In-Reply-To: from Andrew Collier at "Jun 3, 98 11:20:03 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:14:28 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 239 Lines: 11 On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:20:03 +0100, Andrew Collier said: > Syncytium > sold literally several copies Um... this sounds like damning with faint praise. > it's peak Aagh. imc From imc Thu Jun 4 01:19:24 1998 Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM In-Reply-To: <199806040003.BAA06369@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from Paul Walker at "Jun 4, 98 01:03:12 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:19:24 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 557 Lines: 15 On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:03:12 +0100, Paul Walker said: > while (int i=strlen(s); isspace(s[i]); i++) Oy vey! Not only have you omitted the semicolon from the end but you've made i count upwards starting from the end of the string. Be prepared for a core dump. > s[i] = 0; ^ I have already commented that I omitted ++ here. Now call me silly, but that looks to me like the scope of i is just the for instruction. Is C++ syntax misleading enough to allow this or is it just that you thought the second line was part of the for instruction? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 4 04:32:00 1998 Message-Id: <199806040329.EAA29450@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:29:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not a lot to do with SAM In-reply-to: <36BDF016BA0@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1069 Lines: 39 > All these names are of different lengths, but are situated in a > column length of 20 characters. Now my program asks you to type in a > name from the list, and proceeds to check it against the list that > has been read in previously. It seems to take each name as 20 chars > long, complete with trailing spaces, and so doesn't register a match > with any name I put in (with no spaces after it). Can't you just read the input name into a 20-character-wide array, which is filled with space characters? eg, char input_name[20]; input_name[20]='\0'; /* set end character */ for (int i=fgets(stdin, input_name,20); 20-i; i++) input_name[i]=' '; int bMatch = strcmp(input_name, database_string); if (!bMatch) { /* strings MATCH (strcmp returns 0 on a match) */ . . . } else { . . . } not sure about the order of the arguments to fgets, but they are Input stream, Buffer pointer, Number of characters to read something along those lines, anyway. can't remember if the value fgets returns also includes the '\0' character or not... whatever. dave