From imc Mon Jun 8 14:10:18 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM FPC In-Reply-To: <000001bd926f$c4ba22c0$f292accf@default> from Simon Cooke at "Jun 7, 98 07:55:37 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 14:10:18 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 299 Lines: 9 On Sun, 7 Jun 1998 19:55:37 -0400, Simon Cooke said: > I'm sure I've got a 32bit divide routine somewhere... > Might be able to get rid of the floating point for you. There's no particular reason to do that unless the code requires to be particularly fast. It'll only result in code bloat. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 15:43:08 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:32:37 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: WARNING to all Sam webmasters X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2294 Lines: 54 As some of you may have noticed, the carou.sel web server has been unavailable today. The site will return as soon as a possible "issue" has been resolved. Or, to put it less obtusely, my computer officer has asked me to ensure that carou.sel does not serve any material which could possibly be held under copyright. Specifically, it seems that Bob Brenchley (without contacting me first, mind you) has complained to the computing service and threatened legal action against the university if the supposedly copyrighted material on carou.sel/sam/ is not removed. The material in question is: 1) the sam/emails.html page, which contained a selection of messages from my outbox, and one two-line quoted message from Bill Ritman 2) the Sam Coupe logo and robot images. The particular logo in question is that drawn by Simon Cooke, and the robot image was scanned from a magazine advert. Since Bob is not directly responsible for the content of either image, this must indicate that he claims copyright on ALL generic images featuring the Sam robot or logo. Therefore I advise caution to any of you who use similar images, which occur in (I estimate) 100% of sam-related web sites. Bob could be on the warpath. ... Meanwhile I am left with the unwelcome task of removing from my site anything which Bob has convinced the CS belongs to him. Frankly, the easiest and safest way to do this would be to completely remove the Sam section. In fact it may perhaps have become time for me to finally leave the Sam world. It's been a nice eight years, but this is exactly the sort of hassle I shouldn't have to be putting up with. This time Bob has really crossed the line. Good luck to you Bob, and keep going the way you are. I hope you can still keep the sam Profitable with no free web-advertising and no programmers. Andrew -- +----------------+-----------------------------+----------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | to a fool | +----------------+-----------------------------+ and he calls | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | you foolish | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | -- Euripides | +----------------------------------------------+----------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 16:43:04 1998 Message-ID: <02f001bd92f3$257b7cc0$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:35:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 793 Lines: 21 >Specifically, it seems that Bob Brenchley (without contacting me first, >mind you) has complained to the computing service and threatened legal >action against the university if the supposedly copyrighted material on >carou.sel/sam/ is not removed. This is just the sort of childish, vindictive behaviour that would be expected of a three year old. Just how much more is Bob going to perpetrate before there is nobody left using the SAM? Good going, Bob. At this rate there will be a user base of one by the end of the month. It's sad to see somebody maliciously setting about destroying what little information is still available. Oh, and you're no longer in my killfile - so feel free to respond - BUT I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE ANY CORRESPONDANCE PUBLIC AT _MY_ DISCRETION. DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 17:27:25 1998 Message-ID: <357C0F7B.824603C5@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 17:21:15 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 585 Lines: 17 Andrew Collier wrote: [snip] > Specifically, it seems that Bob Brenchley (without contacting me first, > mind you) has complained to the computing service and threatened legal > action against the university if the supposedly copyrighted material on > carou.sel/sam/ is not removed. [snip] Andrew, if you want, I'll host the site, and take any responsibility for what he tries to do to me. I'm sure there are a few other SAM peeps who will host the site too - then he'd have to sue us all. Like I said before, if we end up in court, I've a fair few things to sue Bob over. Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 17:39:50 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661D.0059ADA8.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:39:18 +0100 Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 816 Lines: 18 >Specifically, it seems that Bob Brenchley (without contacting me first, >mind you) has complained to the computing service and threatened legal >action against the university if the supposedly copyrighted material on >carou.sel/sam/ is not removed. >2) the Sam Coupe logo and robot images. The particular logo in question is >that drawn by Simon Cooke, and the robot image was scanned from a magazine >advert. Since Bob is not directly responsible for the content of either >image, this must indicate that he claims copyright on ALL generic images >featuring the Sam robot or logo. So much for me setting up my SAM Coupe web page. Especially since the logo on it is similar to the Coupe logo (Except "Coupe" is replaced by "Xenoa" since "Xenoa" and "Xenoic Systems" are names of my programming group). Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 18:05:30 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: sskardon@argonet.co.uk (Stewart Skardon) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 18:00:44 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1998 Lines: 58 On Mon 8 Jun 98 (15:32:37 +0100), asc25@cam.ac.uk wrote: > >Specifically, it seems that Bob Brenchley (without contacting me first, >mind you) has complained to the computing service and threatened legal >action against the university if the supposedly copyrighted material on >carou.sel/sam/ is not removed. > >The material in question is: > [snip] > >2) the Sam Coupe logo and robot images. The SAM logo is surely still copyright of West Coast Computers. Bob isn't a legal representative of the company or even a director ,according to claims made by himself on this very list. He just handles the distribution of the SAM. So what the f@*k has it got to do with him anyway? Let West Coast's director worry about it. And isn't the SAM Robot the copyright of the original cartoonist, Robin Evans? Or is that another name that Bob uses to disguise himself? :-) >The particular logo in question >is that drawn by Simon Cooke, Well, I scanned the logo for Simon to work from, so I guess Bob should be talking to me about it, not you Andrew. > and the robot image was scanned from a >magazine advert. Since Bob is not directly responsible for the content >of either image, this must indicate that he claims copyright on ALL >generic images featuring the Sam robot or logo. > >Therefore I advise caution to any of you who use similar images, which >occur in (I estimate) 100% of sam-related web sites. Bob could be on >the >warpath. I'm ready and waiting for him. Coincidentally, if Bob can't post to this group because he is 'setting up a LAN in his caravan, sorry office', then how come he can still find the time to post to C.S.S? Just a thought. > P.S Don't leave us. We need all the honest people that we can get around here. Stewart -- _ (_'tewart email : sskardon@argonet.co.uk ,_)kardon http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/stewart/ * * * NEW - Stewart's SAM Information Pages. * * * http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/sampages/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 18:17:55 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 18:10:19 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <3F88981202E@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 248 Lines: 7 > Coincidentally, if Bob can't post to this group because he is 'setting up a LAN > in his caravan, sorry office', then how come he can still find the time to post > to C.S.S? Just a thought. Yes, about the printers. Hmmm..... very strange. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 18:57:16 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:44:43 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters In-reply-to: Message-Id: <19980608174210Z49303-27049+166@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 480 Lines: 14 > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:32:37 +0100 > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > From: Andrew Collier > Specifically, it seems that Bob Brenchley (without contacting me first, > mind you) has complained to the computing service and threatened legal > action against the university if the supposedly copyrighted material on > carou.sel/sam/ is not removed. What? Some people have a bloody cheek complaining about copyright material ....! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 18:57:16 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:52:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters In-reply-to: Message-Id: <19980608174249Z49303-27049+167@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2903 Lines: 74 > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:32:37 +0100 > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > From: Andrew Collier > Subject: WARNING to all Sam webmasters > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 17:44:21 BST > As some of you may have noticed, the carou.sel web server has been > unavailable today. The site will return as soon as a possible "issue" has > been resolved. > > Or, to put it less obtusely, my computer officer has asked me to ensure > that carou.sel does not serve any material which could possibly be held > under copyright. [snip] > The material in question is: > > 1) the sam/emails.html page, which contained a selection of messages from > my outbox, and one two-line quoted message from Bill Ritman Hmmm... email sent to YOU. Surely it is your property in the first place to do with what the hell you like? And why is he so keen to remove THAT particular item? > 2) the Sam Coupe logo and robot images. The particular logo in question is > that drawn by Simon Cooke, and the robot image was scanned from a magazine > advert. Since Bob is not directly responsible for the content of either > image, this must indicate that he claims copyright on ALL generic images > featuring the Sam robot or logo. Well.... I would imagine the generic rights to the robot still belong to Robin Evans anyway... since he's used it in Computer Shopper. Unless Bob's suing them as well? Partiularly as he seemed SO keen on having the SAM manual scanned and posted on the WWW? Unless of course he's doing this action to protect Simon's copyright interests? No, somehow I doubt that! > Therefore I advise caution to any of you who use similar images, which > occur in (I estimate) 100% of sam-related web sites. Bob could be on the > warpath. Well I have the image of the SAM robot which is designed by Steve Pick (IIR) and it is NOT being removed. Any other images are the copyright of Persona... particularly ones of Persona copyright software on the site. > ... > > Meanwhile I am left with the unwelcome task of removing from my site > anything which Bob has convinced the CS belongs to him. Frankly, the > easiest and safest way to do this would be to completely remove the Sam > section. Or to shift it elsewhere ... where people don't give a flying fsck about pocket-hitlers? > In fact it may perhaps have become time for me to finally leave the Sam > world. It's been a nice eight years, but this is exactly the sort of hassle > I shouldn't have to be putting up with. This time Bob has really crossed > the line. There is no need to resort to this. It's just what the afore mentioned mini-dictator would like to see... > Good luck to you Bob, and keep going the way you are. I hope you can still > keep the sam Profitable with no free web-advertising and no programmers. Hmmmmm....! > Andrew David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 18:57:17 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:04:51 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters In-reply-to: <357C0F7B.824603C5@purple.dircon.co.uk> Message-Id: <19980608174556Z49308-27049+169@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 933 Lines: 26 > Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 17:21:15 +0100 > From: Gavin Smith > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 18:09:44 BST > Andrew Collier wrote: > > [snip] > > > Specifically, it seems that Bob Brenchley (without contacting me first, > > mind you) has complained to the computing service and threatened legal > > action against the university if the supposedly copyrighted material on > > carou.sel/sam/ is not removed. > > [snip] > > Andrew, if you want, I'll host the site, and take any responsibility for what he > tries to do to me. I'm sure there are a few other SAM peeps who will host the > site too - then he'd have to sue us all. Like I said before, if we end up in > court, I've a fair few things to sue Bob over. > > Gavin The same goes for me too! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 18:57:18 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:06:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters In-reply-to: <8025661D.0059ADA8.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Message-Id: <19980608174634Z49308-27049+170@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 609 Lines: 15 > From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:39:18 +0100 > Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 18:11:16 BST > So much for me setting up my SAM Coupe web page. Especially since the logo > on it is similar to the Coupe logo (Except "Coupe" is replaced by "Xenoa" > since "Xenoa" and "Xenoic Systems" are names of my programming group). > > > Justin. What's next Bob? Claim copyright on the name SAM? So what do we call it then eh? The Banana Coupe? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 18:57:19 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:19:51 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters In-reply-to: Message-Id: <19980608175021Z49308-27049+172@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1021 Lines: 34 > From: sskardon@argonet.co.uk (Stewart Skardon) > And isn't the SAM Robot the copyright of the original cartoonist, Robin Evans? > Or is that another name that Bob uses to disguise himself? :-) Perhaps he's really Mel Croucher as well? > >The particular logo in question > >is that drawn by Simon Cooke, > Well, I scanned the logo for Simon to work from, so I guess Bob should be > talking to me about it, not you Andrew. No, Bob is also Simon Cooke? Surely that's the only way he can claim copyright on Simons work? > I'm ready and waiting for him. There's plenty of good ISP's around for us home based people... > Coincidentally, if Bob can't post to this group because he is 'setting up a LAN > in his caravan, sorry office', then how come he can still find the time to post > to C.S.S? Just a thought. Some suspicious people would say he still is. I couldn't possibly comment. > P.S Don't leave us. We need all the honest people that we can get around here. Hear hear! > Stewart David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 19:03:43 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 18:57:50 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters References: <8025661D.0059ADA8.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> In-reply-to: <19980608174634Z49308-27049+170@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <3F9546C21FD@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 125 Lines: 6 > So what do we call it then eh? The Banana Coupe? Sounds cool to me. The Banana coupe. Banana-users mailing list. :) MJC From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 20:15:41 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <13ebfd10.357c36b9@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:08:40 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: let's hold reallllllly long grudges Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 147 Lines: 7 In a message dated 07/06/98 21:10:08, you write: > Personally I don't see the problem in posting "private" emails to a list. Says a lot. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 21:04:25 1998 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 20:57:20 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Ian Dalziel Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 294 Lines: 16 In article , Andrew Collier writes > Bob Brenchley > copyrighted material >one two-line quoted message from Bill Ritman > So - let me get this straight - Bob is claiming copyright on Emails from Bill? (snigger) -- Ian Dalziel From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 22:17:08 1998 From: Peter Harkess To: Sam-Users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 22:09:55 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0.0 Preview3 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: A Warning X-Orcpt: rfc822;Sam-Users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 923 Lines: 24 All hail the Newflesh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, In the past i haven't said a lot on this list,but it's getting to the stage that i'm getting sick of all of it.It's just f*#@ing childish the whole lot of this crap. I'll tell all the people involved in this stupid sh*t that if it doesn't stop soon i'll be leaving and you may think that it's not such a bad thing because i don't say much,but the sam needs all the support it needs and it's not getting very much here.As for the case with Andrew Collier,i'm not surprised that he want's to leave and he has my sympathy for all the crap that he has put up with.As for Bob,HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT'S??Do you go to the show's at all??? If i was you i wouldn't. I don't think i can take much more of this shit.Why doesn't everybody wipe there messages and start again and post any abusive mails back to the person who sent it? -- Peter Harkess From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 23:24:27 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: sskardon@argonet.co.uk (Stewart Skardon) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 22:39:24 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: IRC Chat on 8th June Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 457 Lines: 20 Hello fellow IRC users, Sorry I got cut off last night. I'm having problems with my software again. Please can someone mail me about what we were talking about when I got cut off. Thanks, Stewart -- _ (_'tewart email : sskardon@argonet.co.uk ,_)kardon http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/stewart/ * * * UPDATED - Stewart's SAM Information Pages. * * * http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/sampages/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 23:24:27 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: sskardon@argonet.co.uk (Stewart Skardon) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 22:56:57 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Web Page links Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 464 Lines: 21 Hello everyone, I've just noticed that a number of people have links to the Crashed site as http://box.argonet....etc. It should be www.argonet....etc Could everyone please change their links :-) Stewart -- _ (_'tewart email : sskardon@argonet.co.uk ,_)kardon http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/stewart/ * * * UPDATED - Stewart's SAM Information Pages. * * * http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/sampages/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 23:24:29 1998 Message-Id: <199806082221.XAA07873@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 23:20:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM FPC In-reply-to: <8025661D.003B56C9.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 494 Lines: 14 [...] > different channels/notes)... That's a point: If I'm gonna release MIDI-Bar > as Freeware, can someone make a nice main screen for me if I give them the > screen layout? My graphics talent isn't exactly world-renown.... > Justin. yeh, i'll do it. gimme layout, i'll givya sommat nice. also tell me what kinda style you're looking for. i mean, we're talking the ui not just a title screen, right? d'you want designs for mouse pointers as well, etc? whatever, just lettuce know. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 23:24:29 1998 Message-Id: <199806082223.XAA07967@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 23:22:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: rehosting X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 186 Lines: 13 geocities is now giving away 11 megs for free, as is xoom to reiterate, that's www.geocities.com and www.xoom.com just incase anyone needs some temporary site hosting space. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Jun 8 23:35:23 1998 Message-Id: <199806082231.XAA12740@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 23:31:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 951 Lines: 25 > 1) the sam/emails.html page, which contained a selection of messages from > my outbox, and one two-line quoted message from Bill Ritman Remove any quotes, remove his legs. So to speak. > 2) the Sam Coupe logo and robot images. The particular logo in question is > that drawn by Simon Cooke, and the robot image was scanned from a magazine If the logo is drawn by Simon, then I can't see how Bob can claim copyright on it. The robot image, possibly; depends if you want to play safe or not. > In fact it may perhaps have become time for me to finally leave the Sam > world. It's been a nice eight years, but this is exactly the sort of hassle > I shouldn't have to be putting up with. This time Bob has really crossed Don't you dare. I'll bite yer ankles. Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 00:00:13 1998 Message-Id: <199806082238.AAA10842@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 00:18:29 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1498 Lines: 39 > Van: David Ledbury at > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters > Datum: Monday, June 08, 1998 6:44 > > > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:32:37 +0100 > > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > > From: Andrew Collier > > Specifically, it seems that Bob Brenchley (without contacting me first, > > mind you) has complained to the computing service and threatened legal > > action against the university if the supposedly copyrighted material on > > carou.sel/sam/ is not removed. > > What? Some people have a bloody cheek complaining about copyright > material ....! Maybe we should warn the webmasters on the CSS as well, there are probably a few around who have also copyrighted Sam material on their sites. Still strange that Bob did not officially announce it in both this list and at the CSS that webmasters should remove the copyrighted material from their sites. If he is in his right than the official announcement would have made his case stronger. And is there a chance that we could claim something like fair-use. I was thinking of setting up my own Sam-site with my own graphics that i did for the Sam (better late than never), but Simon's logo is just to good for not using it. ahh well "its better to die quickly than to fade away" Nice going Bob -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 00:30:06 1998 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 00:10:17 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Handley To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Warning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1612 Lines: 35 On Mon, 8 Jun 1998, Peter Harkess wrote: > Hello, > In the past i haven't said a lot on this list,but it's getting to the > stage that i'm getting sick of all of it.It's just f*#@ing childish the whole > lot of this crap. > I'll tell all the people involved in this stupid sh*t that if it doesn't stop > soon i'll be leaving and you may think that it's not such a bad thing because > i don't say much,but the sam needs all the support it needs and it's not > getting very much here. Hi Peter, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm pretty much in the same situation as you, but I've been convincing myself to un-sunscribe for a long time. The annoying thing is, I've been away for 5 days and I returned to find that my mailbox has been deleted because it is too big. Over 95% of those mails were from this group. I spent this afternoon begging for a backup-restoration-type-thing and discovered that most of the messages were, errr, pants. Its the first time I've had to do that in three years! > I don't think i can take much more of this shit.Why doesn't everybody wipe > there messages and start again and post any abusive mails back to the person > who sent it? Too right. Surely the people responsible know when an argument is starting, why not just have it privately? Dave ,---------------------------------------------------------, ,/ Dave Handley / ,/ Email - d.handley@lancaster.ac.uk /' / Visit - http://www.lancs.ac.uk/ug/handley/index.htm /' `---------------------------------------------------------' From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 00:38:38 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Robert is the Idiot!!!!!!! Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 19:24:50 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd9334$a237f2c0$fb24accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <3dbc6790.357c36b7@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 439 Lines: 17 >From private email from Bill Ritman: > > I think we're getting to the point where we need to consider > changing the > > rules on the list then. Or starting a new one up. > > > > Simon > > I would have thought that most of the regular and long term > members would have > joined me in flaming Robert for his shameful behaviour. But so > far nothing, > WHY? Because you're annoying, pompous, obnoxious, abusive and rude? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 00:38:38 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 23:27:28 GMT Message-ID: <357e6b05.6997028@mail.enterprise.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2903 Lines: 71 I came back from formatting the hard drive, installing windowz, fixing my connection and On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:32:37 +0100, Andrew Collier wrote: > >Specifically, it seems that Bob Brenchley (without contacting me first, >mind you) has complained to the computing service and threatened legal >action against the university if the supposedly copyrighted material on >carou.sel/sam/ is not removed. This would be funny if it wasn't so obviously malicious. It seems vindictive and underhand to the extreme. I wonder would he have actually gone ahead with his threats if they'd refused? Still, you can't really blame the university; they don't know his capabilities. >The material in question is: > >1) the sam/emails.html page, which contained a selection of messages from >my outbox, and one two-line quoted message from Bill Ritman Was this material from the mailing list, or private email? >2) the Sam Coupe logo and robot images. The particular logo in question is >that drawn by Simon Cooke, and the robot image was scanned from a magazine >advert. Since Bob is not directly responsible for the content of either >image, this must indicate that he claims copyright on ALL generic images >featuring the Sam robot or logo. Not exactly Coca Cola is it? I suppose this should apply to every web site containing a pic of SAM. I wonder why he picked yours? :) >Therefore I advise caution to any of you who use similar images, which >occur in (I estimate) 100% of sam-related web sites. Bob could be on the >warpath. Not very brave though, going behind your back. It just looks like he wanted to get at you somehow, and this was the only thing he could come up with. Pathetic, isn't it? >Meanwhile I am left with the unwelcome task of removing from my site >anything which Bob has convinced the CS belongs to him. Frankly, the >easiest and safest way to do this would be to completely remove the Sam >section. That'd only give him a sense of achievement. Don't let him get to you. >In fact it may perhaps have become time for me to finally leave the Sam >world. It's been a nice eight years, but this is exactly the sort of hassle >I shouldn't have to be putting up with. This time Bob has really crossed >the line. We should have seen something like this coming. All that bull about the Lan. I think he's playing games and he's probably keeping up with these posts as much as anyone else - especially now (aren't you Bob? I bet no one's in your killfile right now - while you sit there with your smug grin). >Good luck to you Bob, and keep going the way you are. I hope you can still >keep the sam Profitable with no free web-advertising and no programmers. He's tried to control the members of the list and failed, losing a lot of respect along the way. I wonder will he reappear? Will he be welcome now? Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 00:38:39 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: let's hold reallllllly long grudges Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 23:27:31 GMT Message-ID: <358372ea.9018990@mail.enterprise.net> References: <13ebfd10.357c36b9@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <13ebfd10.357c36b9@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 496 Lines: 22 On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:08:40 EDT, wrote: Hi >In a message dated 07/06/98 21:10:08, you write: > >> Personally I don't see the problem in posting "private" emails to a list. > >Says a lot. > >Bill. I sometimes wonder why you stick around Bill. You don't seem to get along with anyone. It's your right as much as mine to stay, but, if I were in your shoes, I don't think I'd like it here. Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 00:38:50 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 23:27:30 GMT Message-ID: <357f711d.8557271@mail.enterprise.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 437 Lines: 15 On Mon, 8 Jun 98 18:00:44, Stewart Skardon wrote: >Coincidentally, if Bob can't post to this group because he is 'setting up a LAN >in his caravan, sorry office', then how come he can still find the time to post >to C.S.S? Just a thought. Like I said, he was bullshitting. He wanted a break from all the people who are pissed off with his arrogance. Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 01:03:59 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 19:55:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd9338$e85cf620$fb24accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199806082231.XAA12740@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 749 Lines: 18 > > 2) the Sam Coupe logo and robot images. The particular logo in > question is > > that drawn by Simon Cooke, and the robot image was scanned from > a magazine > > If the logo is drawn by Simon, then I can't see how Bob can claim > copyright on it. The robot image, possibly; depends if you want to > play safe or not. Bob can't claim copyright on the SAM Logo unless it's trademarked. This is because I drew the new one from scratch - it's a vector file, the "coupe" bit isn't even traced from the original; only the SAM bit was, and even then I redid the angles and rejigged it tons. The SAM robot picture is a bit of a different thing altogether. If Bob were willing or able to prove he had copyright on it, then he might have a case. Simon From imc Tue Jun 9 01:32:17 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM FPC In-Reply-To: <199806082221.XAA07873@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from Dave Hooper at "Jun 8, 98 11:20:37 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 01:32:17 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 379 Lines: 11 Threads merge 1/2 mile... On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 23:20:37 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > yeh, i'll do it. gimme layout, i'll givya sommat nice. > also tell me what kinda style you're looking for. i mean, we're > talking the ui not just a title screen, right? d'you want designs for > mouse pointers as well, etc? Don't forget to claim copyright on it once he's published it... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 02:30:14 1998 Message-ID: <357C8DE6.E6BD8E2B@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 02:20:38 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters References: <357e6b05.6997028@mail.enterprise.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 474 Lines: 12 Dave wrote: > He's tried to control the members of the list and failed, losing a lot > of respect along the way. I wonder will he reappear? You can count on it. He won't be happy until he wrecks this list. I realised that last week. There's no depths to which he won't stoop. (By the way, it appears he has been mailing people privately and making up complete sh*t about me - if you've recieved such mail, please tell me and I'd be happy to let you know the truth) Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 03:50:07 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 22:30:24 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd934e$8e91e4a0$892eaccf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <357C8DE6.E6BD8E2B@purple.dircon.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 432 Lines: 13 > You can count on it. He won't be happy until he wrecks this list. I > realised that last week. There's no depths to which he won't stoop. (By > the way, it appears he has been mailing people privately and making up > complete sh*t about me - if you've recieved such mail, please tell me > and I'd be happy to let you know the truth) What's he been claiming? What a completely gitty idiot of an individual Bob is. *sigh* Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 03:50:07 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 22:30:27 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bd934e$9013f0c0$892eaccf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 298 Lines: 9 > >The particular logo in question > >is that drawn by Simon Cooke, > Well, I scanned the logo for Simon to work from, so I guess Bob should be > talking to me about it, not you Andrew. Nah -- he should be talking to me; I was the one who made it public, and created the derivative work :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 03:50:17 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 22:35:38 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bd934f$499a7280$892eaccf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <02f001bd92f3$257b7cc0$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 617 Lines: 18 > This is just the sort of childish, vindictive behaviour that would be > expected of a three year old. Just how much more is Bob going to > perpetrate before there is nobody left using the SAM? Dunno. I'm about to start the "Bob Brenchley is a stupid twat" campaign on c.s.s. though, unless he explains himself. To think I actually bothered to let him know about the slimline drives I tracked down. What a fool I am. Simon -- Bob Brenchley is a twat, whom it would be interesting to set FAST on and let's just *SEE* about copyright *THEN* shall we? Or would you like to start paying programmers for their work? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 03:50:18 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 22:35:36 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bd934f$48b89e00$892eaccf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <19980608174249Z49303-27049+167@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 914 Lines: 23 > Well.... I would imagine the generic rights to the robot still belong > to Robin Evans anyway... since he's used it in Computer Shopper. > Unless Bob's suing them as well? Partiularly as he seemed SO keen on > having the SAM manual scanned and posted on the WWW? > > Unless of course he's doing this action to protect Simon's copyright > interests? No, somehow I doubt that! Nah... not an issue anyway -- see http://jumper.mcc.ac.uk/~simonc/samcoupe/misc.html > > Therefore I advise caution to any of you who use similar images, which > > occur in (I estimate) 100% of sam-related web sites. Bob could be on the > > warpath. > > Well I have the image of the SAM robot which is designed by Steve > Pick (IIR) and it is NOT being removed. Any other images are the > copyright of Persona... particularly ones of Persona copyright > software on the site. Time to stick the BOAI piccies back up, I think :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 09:56:45 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661E.002EB882.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:49:42 +0100 Subject: MIDI-Bar (Was: The SAM FPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1731 Lines: 51 Dave Hooper kindly replied: >[...] >> different channels/notes)... That's a point: If I'm gonna release MIDI-Bar >> as Freeware, can someone make a nice main screen for me if I give them the >> screen layout? My graphics talent isn't exactly world-renown.... >> Justin. > >yeh, i'll do it. gimme layout, i'll givya sommat nice. >also tell me what kinda style you're looking for. i mean, we're >talking the ui not just a title screen, right? d'you want designs for >mouse pointers as well, etc? That is very excellent of you! :) Basically, MIDI-Bar is going to be a very simple program as a fore-runner to something much bigger... Do you know of some MIDI file players that have a the main screen showing nice colourful lines displaying which note is being played on what channel? Well, I'm on my way of making one of those. But for now, it's just going to display the notes/etc as thay come into the MIDI In port on the back of the SAM. So, unfortunately, there won't be a UI as such. The only button to be pressed is the NMI button at the back to get out. Certainly no mouse pointers (I don't have a mouse anyway). I know what, when I get the code near a state of releasability, I'll create a simple screen with all the appropriate bits and bobs and you can jazz it up a bit (most likely the edges)?? >whatever, just lettuce know. Cheers! :) Justin. PS: Sometimes I wish I was one of those "bloody stupid demo programmers". Especially when I was spending ages single-stepping all my code last night trying to chase down a single bug only to finally find that I had only forgotten to re-enable interrupts at the end of my service routine... PPS: Does the Z80 always automatically disable interrupts when it gets one? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 10:25:16 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:05:36 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Robert is the Idiot!!!!!!! In-reply-to: <000001bd9334$a237f2c0$fb24accf@default> References: <3dbc6790.357c36b7@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <40875415B0A@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 425 Lines: 15 >From Simon Cooke: > > I would have thought that most of the regular and long term > > members would have > > joined me in flaming Robert for his shameful behaviour. But so > > far nothing, > > WHY? > Because you're annoying, pompous, obnoxious, abusive and rude? > Simon That's the essence of this argument. We can't just flame people all the time. What sort of action does this have except to provoke him more? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 11:22:58 1998 From: FormatPub@aol.com Message-ID: <65169ac9.357cfe52@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 05:20:16 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: A Brief(ish) Statement. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 18 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 2663 Lines: 53 I'm still not back properly, but I thought it best to write this as I have had a couple of telephone calls on the subject this evening. Please note that I do not intend to enter into any correspondence on this subject, either on the list or by private email, as it is not a matter that needs discussion. First. A couple of points. 1) You are all aware that I signed contracts with SAMCo's liquidator and MGT's receiver that transferred all copyrights vested in those two companies to myself (with certain exceptions such as those regarding the SAM ASIC). Under pre-existing contracts the hardware was then contracted to WCC and the Software to Revelation. I retained selected copyrights and intellectual property rights in order to safeguard the SAM. 2) Anything written, either in material form or in electronic form, is copyright unless the author specifically says in writing that he waves his rights in the matter. The copyright applies equally to email and I understand that there have already been test cases in this. Now to the matter in hand. On Saturday the 6th June I received three separate emails from people on this list, thank you. Each pointing me at a web site run by Andrew Collier. Given the details in one email I became concerned. I immediately visited the site and printed out the contents of two pages (urls). Having been told that Andrew had posted the url to the list, and noting that the page was part of the SAM web ring - and of course given the contents, I reached the conclusion that leaving the pages available to the public for any longer than could be helped could prove detrimental. Being Saturday, and in view of the contents, I posted an urgent email to the webmaster at the university site asking for urgent action to be taken to remove what I held to be copyright material. Namely extracts from personal emails between myself and Andrew, and two images. There was no time for any other action. I am VERY busy at the moment and was not prepared to waste time by taking a different route to the same goal. I would like to point out that there are many images floating about on SAM web sites which I could make a good case for holding the copyright on. Normally I do not mind, they help to promote the SAM after all. I would of course like people to ask before they use something, if only so I know where and what is being used, but I would not withhold permission without good reason. Blatant posting of private emails is different, especially when taken out of context and with unfair comments added. I understand that the pages have now been removed. I consider that is an end to the matter. -- Bob Brenchley. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 11:22:59 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 22:14:33 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters In-reply-to: Message-Id: <19980609093436Z49508-27049+327@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 639 Lines: 21 > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:32:37 +0100 > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > From: Andrew Collier > Subject: WARNING to all Sam webmasters > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 17:44:21 BST > In fact it may perhaps have become time for me to finally leave the Sam > world. It's been a nice eight years, but this is exactly the sort of hassle > I shouldn't have to be putting up with. This time Bob has really crossed > the line. Congratulations Bob! (That, for the benefit of some people, is called SARCASM... try reading it up in a dictionary). David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 11:56:15 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <65169ac9.357cfe52@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:48:10 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1441 Lines: 38 At 10:20 am +0100 9/6/98, FormatPub@aol.com wrote: >Having been told that Andrew had posted the url to the list, and noting that Actually no. That wasn't me, it was Matthew Craven IIRC. >view of the contents, I posted an urgent email to the webmaster at the >university site asking for urgent action to be taken to remove what I held to Why didn't you send that email to me? I'd still have had to remove those pages, and I wouldn't have got so narked off with you for trying to make the biggest noise about this you possibly could. >Blatant >posting of private emails is different, especially when taken out of context >and with unfair comments added. Messages from my _out_box? Publicly available sam-users postings? I'd added text between the emails to put them INTO context - and I was using the whole emails. If you think those comments were unfair, you're perfectly at liberty to tell me your side. >I consider that is an end to the matter. You would. Andrew -- +----------------+-----------------------------+----------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | to a fool | +----------------+-----------------------------+ and he calls | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | you foolish | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | -- Euripides | +----------------------------------------------+----------------+ From imc Tue Jun 9 11:56:43 1998 Subject: Re: MIDI-Bar (Was: The SAM FPC) In-Reply-To: <8025661E.002EB882.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at "Jun 9, 98 09:49:42 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:56:43 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 202 Lines: 9 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:49:42 +0100, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk said: > PPS: Does the Z80 always automatically disable interrupts when it gets > one? Yes. Hethe Hannend. imc PS except NMIs, obviously. From imc Tue Jun 9 11:58:20 1998 Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. In-Reply-To: from Andrew Collier at "Jun 9, 98 11:48:10 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:58:20 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 328 Lines: 9 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:48:10 +0100, Andrew Collier said: > >Having been told that Andrew had posted the url to the list, and noting that > Actually no. That wasn't me, it was Matthew Craven IIRC. Incidentally I tried that and was asked for a username and password, so I don't actually know what on earth this is about... imc From imc Tue Jun 9 12:03:06 1998 Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. In-Reply-To: <65169ac9.357cfe52@aol.com> from "FormatPub@aol.com" at "Jun 9, 98 05:20:16 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:03:06 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 841 Lines: 27 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 05:20:16 EDT, FormatPub@aol.com said: > I'm still not back properly, Back enough to post to CSS though, I notice. > had a couple of telephone calls on the subject this evening. Please note that > I do not intend to enter into any correspondence on this subject, either on > the list or by private email, as it is not a matter that needs discussion. That makes a change then. > Given the details in one > email I became concerned. It was from a certain Mr Ritman, no doubt. > I immediately visited the site and printed out the > contents of two pages (urls). Thus breaking copyright. > I consider that is an end to the matter. That's alright then. We'll stop this thread immediately. In fact I won't even mail this message... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 12:51:24 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <65169ac9.357cfe52@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:57:27 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 678 Lines: 20 At 10:20 am +0100 9/6/98, FormatPub@aol.com wrote: >do not mind, they help to promote the SAM after all. I would of course like My pages did promote the Sam. It's just that they did not promote You. Andrew -- +----------------+-----------------------------+----------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | to a fool | +----------------+-----------------------------+ and he calls | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | you foolish | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | -- Euripides | +----------------------------------------------+----------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 12:51:25 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: MIDI-Bar (Was: The SAM FPC) References: <8025661E.002EB882.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 09 Jun 1998 11:57:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk's message of "Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:49:42 +0100" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 187 Lines: 11 Justin_Skists@case.co.uk writes: > PPS: Does the Z80 always automatically disable interrupts when it gets > one? Yep 'fraid so ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 12:51:28 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:19:28 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: <40AB03678D1@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 174 Lines: 6 > > >Having been told that Andrew had posted the url to the list, and noting that > > Actually no. That wasn't me, it was Matthew Craven IIRC. Are you criticising me? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 12:51:29 1998 Message-ID: <011f01bd9395$d9ac4d80$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Fed up Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:00:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1672 Lines: 37 I would just like to point out that in no way does a person own the copyright on any email message he sends. The email message belongs to the recipient, not the sender, and unless a disclaimer is added to the message explicitly forbidding reproduction elsewhere on any material which _may_ be construed as copyrightable, there is no reason at all why such a message may not be quoted, reproduced or reposted elsewhere. Now, how do you arrive at your conclusions for point 2), Bob? It's obvious you are still reading mails from the list at the moment, and that you are also quite capable of responding. In no way is your reprehensible behaviour justified, and if I were in the same position as some of the other members of this list, I would have no qualms in immediately reporting your behaviour to your ISP, who would hopefully have the common sense to drop a liability like you immediately. Have you got nothing better to do than to deliberately go around starting arguments, then act in a boorish and frankly quite disgusting manner when things do not go your way? An appeal to decency at this point: perhaps you would like to take back your complaints regarding Andrew's site, and apologise for all the personal attacks you have made on list members? Please can we stop the fighting and get back to _discussing_ issues, rather than the name-calling we have had for the past.... well, ages. If this continues for much longer, I will have no choice but to terminate my last connection with the SAM world, rather than see what has become of it. DMZ --- I reserve the right to republish/reproduce and/or quote sections of any email messages sent explicitly to me. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 12:51:29 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <65169ac9.357cfe52@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:33:49 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 799 Lines: 24 At 10:20 am +0100 9/6/98, FormatPub@aol.com wrote: >On Saturday the 6th June I received three separate emails >[blah] >I immediately visited the site Now that's odd. Carou.sel didn't serve emails.html at all on the 6th or 7th of June. So either Bob was using a previously cached copy, or is not being entirely truthful. Andrew -- +----------------+-----------------------------+----------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | to a fool | +----------------+-----------------------------+ and he calls | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | you foolish | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | -- Euripides | +----------------------------------------------+----------------+ From imc Tue Jun 9 13:00:59 1998 Subject: Re: Fed up In-Reply-To: <011f01bd9395$d9ac4d80$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> from Dave at "Jun 9, 98 12:00:14 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:00:59 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 659 Lines: 14 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:00:14 +0100, Dave said: > I would just like to point out that in no way does a person > own the copyright on any email message he sends. The email message > belongs to the recipient, not the sender, and unless a disclaimer > is added to the message explicitly forbidding reproduction elsewhere > on any material which _may_ be construed as copyrightable, there is > no reason at all why such a message may not be quoted, reproduced > or reposted elsewhere. Sorry Dave, I hate to agree with Bob, but you are wrong. Also, I hate to agree with Bill but there _is_ a piece of netiquette which says you shouldn't post private emails. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 13:39:55 1998 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:34:17 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@red.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. In-Reply-To: <40AB03678D1@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 630 Lines: 16 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Matthew Craven wrote: > > > >Having been told that Andrew had posted the url to the list, and noting that > > > Actually no. That wasn't me, it was Matthew Craven IIRC. > > Are you criticising me? No, merely correcting Bob's obvious error. ;) Andrew +----------------------------------------+---------------------------+ | Second Law Of Thermodynamics: | Andrew Collier, 1B NatSci | | If you think things are in a | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | | mess now, just you wait.... | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +----------------------------------------+---------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 13:55:19 1998 Message-ID: <014c01bd93a4$e151dc80$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: Fed up Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:47:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 233 Lines: 13 > >Sorry Dave, I hate to agree with Bob, but you are wrong. Also, I hate >to agree with Bill but there _is_ a piece of netiquette which says you >shouldn't post private emails. > Netiquette - yes, but legally speaking? DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 14:11:36 1998 Message-ID: <357D3108.931A1F53@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 13:56:40 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Fed up References: <014c01bd93a4$e151dc80$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 380 Lines: 13 Dave wrote: > Netiquette - yes, but legally speaking? > > DMZ > --- Not that Bill/Bob has ever shown any respect for netiquette. Andrew, like I said, if you want, I'll put up your site and claim any responsibility for it. I'd love to see him try to sue me. Hey, Bill Ritman might even turn up in court ;) -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 14:11:36 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661E.0046699A.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:03:49 +0100 Subject: Re: MIDI-Bar (Was: The SAM FPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 602 Lines: 28 >> PPS: Does the Z80 always automatically disable interrupts when it gets >> one? > >Yes. Good. That explains why I noticed my EI status on TurboMon turn mysteriously into a DI after going into my ISR. That means I can save a t-state or two by forgetting the explicit DI instruction... (not that it really needs it yet). That's a point: Is Si Owen still on this list? His Turbomon has solved a lot of my heart-break so far.. :) > Hethe Hannend. What's that in English? :) >imc > >PS except NMIs, obviously. Of course... ;) Even I know that... *runs to check the source file! :)* Justin. From imc Tue Jun 9 14:16:50 1998 Subject: Re: Fed up In-Reply-To: <014c01bd93a4$e151dc80$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> from Dave at "Jun 9, 98 01:47:49 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:16:50 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 168 Lines: 6 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:47:49 +0100, Dave said: > Netiquette - yes, but legally speaking? Legally you shouldn't do it either because the author retains copyright. imc From imc Tue Jun 9 14:17:58 1998 Subject: Re: MIDI-Bar (Was: The SAM FPC) In-Reply-To: <8025661E.0046699A.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at "Jun 9, 98 02:03:49 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:17:58 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 203 Lines: 7 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:03:49 +0100, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk said: > > Hethe Hannend. > What's that in English? :) Hethe Hannend = HTH HAND = Hope this helps, have a nice day. Hethe Hannend. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 15:39:24 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:38:29 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. References: <40AB03678D1@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <40D01854318@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 254 Lines: 9 > > > > >Having been told that Andrew had posted the url to the list, and noting that > > > > Actually no. That wasn't me, it was Matthew Craven IIRC. > > Are you criticising me? > No, merely correcting Bob's obvious error. ;) > Andrew Oh goody. MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 15:45:40 1998 Message-ID: <01a501bd93b3$f286ee00$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: Fed up Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:35:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 332 Lines: 11 > Legally you shouldn't do it either because the author retains copyright. If this were the case, then no criminal trial could ever be held - Imagine - threatening letters? Can't be used in evidence because the author retains copyright? I think not. As far as I was aware, there is no copyright on the english language. DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 15:51:33 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Fed up References: <01a501bd93b3$f286ee00$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 09 Jun 1998 15:48:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Dave"'s message of "Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:35:41 +0100" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 693 Lines: 20 "Dave" writes: > > Legally you shouldn't do it either because the author retains copyright. > > If this were the case, then no criminal trial could ever be held - > Imagine - threatening letters? Can't be used in evidence because the author > retains copyright? I think not. Neither do I. Just because something is copyright doesn't mean it can't be used in court, where on earth did you get that theory from. > As far as I was aware, there is no copyright on the english language. True but once someone writes something down or more specifically creates something in a tangible form then it is copyright by them. Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From imc Tue Jun 9 15:52:06 1998 Subject: Re: Fed up In-Reply-To: <01a501bd93b3$f286ee00$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> from Dave at "Jun 9, 98 03:35:41 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:52:06 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 884 Lines: 21 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:35:41 +0100, Dave said: > > Legally you shouldn't do it either because the author retains copyright. > If this were the case, then no criminal trial could ever be held - > Imagine - threatening letters? Can't be used in evidence because the author > retains copyright? If the letters are on paper then there is no problem since you don't have to copy the letter to show it in court, hence no breach of copyright. This is a red herring. There is also (probably) the concept of "fair use". And if it comes to that you can always subpoena the defendant to grant permission for it to be copied. > As far as I was aware, there is no copyright > on the english language. And this is just an idiotic comment. Do you think this means I can go to any library, get any book which is written in English, and copy it wholesale? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 16:32:02 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661E.005359BF.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:11:08 +0100 Subject: Re: Fed up Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 381 Lines: 17 > > Legally you shouldn't do it either because the author retains copyright. > If this were the case, then no criminal trial could ever be held - > Imagine - threatening letters? Can't be used in evidence because the author > retains copyright? Was there a copyright sign anywhere? No wonder Bob disappeared for a week... He knew what response he'd get for it all... Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 16:32:25 1998 Message-ID: <01bf01bd93b8$9f3d4460$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: Fed up Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:09:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 424 Lines: 15 >And this is just an idiotic comment. Do you think this means I can go >to any library, get any book which is written in English, and copy it >wholesale? Didn't mean that - obviously. I'm talking about day to day common usage - english used to communicate, converse with. If the material contained in a message was in some way an original work, rather than a direct communication intended for that individual. DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 16:32:26 1998 Message-ID: <357D510C.38F3@lhutz.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 16:13:16 +0100 From: James R Curry X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/735) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 309 Lines: 6 > Specifically, it seems that Bob Brenchley (without contacting me first, > mind you) has complained to the computing service and threatened legal > action against the university if the supposedly copyrighted material on > carou.sel/sam/ is not removed. Does this mean Bob is back from his weeks absence...? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 16:32:27 1998 Message-ID: <357D51FC.60697374@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 16:17:16 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Copyright shmopyright References: <9806072145.AA28240@mars.cableol.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 34 Lines: 1 I'm bored! Change the subject! :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 16:49:06 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Fed up References: <8025661E.005359BF.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 09 Jun 1998 16:37:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk's message of "Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:11:08 +0100" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 443 Lines: 18 Justin_Skists@case.co.uk writes: > > > Legally you shouldn't do it either because the author retains > copyright. > > > If this were the case, then no criminal trial could ever be held - > > Imagine - threatening letters? Can't be used in evidence because the > author > > retains copyright? > > Was there a copyright sign anywhere? You don't need one, its a popular misconception ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 16:49:07 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Robert is the Idiot!!!!!!! Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:37:51 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bd93bc$902f5e00$4e25accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <40875415B0A@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 203 Lines: 7 > That's the essence of this argument. We can't just flame people all > the time. What sort of action does this have except to provoke him > more? To be honest, at this point, I'm past caring. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 16:49:07 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Fed up References: <01bf01bd93b8$9f3d4460$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 09 Jun 1998 16:38:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Dave"'s message of "Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:09:08 +0100" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 774 Lines: 20 "Dave" writes: > >And this is just an idiotic comment. Do you think this means I can go > >to any library, get any book which is written in English, and copy it > >wholesale? > > Didn't mean that - obviously. I'm talking about day to day common > usage - english used to communicate, converse with. If the material > contained in a message was in some way an original work, rather than a > direct communication intended for that individual. It depends, it now exists as an 'article' rather than just something that is said and then disappears. If I spoke to you on the phone and said something that is uncopyrightable because it no longer exists, letters however (And presumably emails ...) are. Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 17:22:22 1998 Message-ID: From: William McGugan To: "'sam-users@nvg.unit.no'" Subject: Mork Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:01:33 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 59 Lines: 6 Hello Sam people. Anyone remember me? Will (aka. Mork) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 17:37:40 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:26:09 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Mork In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <40FCCBD43D5@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 201 Lines: 10 > Hello Sam people. > > Anyone remember me? > > Will (aka. Mork) I'm sure I remember your name, but I can't remember for what. What did you do on the SAM again (if you don't mind me asking)? MJC. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 17:37:40 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661E.005B0143.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:34:32 +0100 Subject: Re: Mork Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 126 Lines: 14 >Hello Sam people. Hi there. >Anyone remember me? > >Will (aka. Mork) Nope. Sorry. Nice to meet you though! :) Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 18:36:41 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <70b5986c.357d6fde@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:24:45 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: A Warning Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 261 Lines: 11 In a message dated 09/06/98 10:30:13, you write: > > Too right. Surely the people responsible know when an argument is > starting, why not just have it privately? > > Dave But that was EXACTLY what I tried to do Dave, and look where it got me. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 18:36:42 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <54544b6c.357d6fe2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:24:48 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 504 Lines: 21 In a message dated 09/06/98 10:30:20, you write: > On Mon, 8 Jun 98 18:00:44, Stewart Skardon wrote: > > > >Coincidentally, if Bob can't post to this group because he is 'setting up a > LAN > >in his caravan, sorry office', then how come he can still find the time to > post > >to C.S.S? Just a thought. > > Like I said, he was bullshitting. He wanted a break from all the > people who are pissed off with his arrogance. > > > Bye, Could you blame him if he did take a rest? Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 18:36:43 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <8ab51c6c.357d6fe1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:24:47 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: let's hold reallllllly long grudges Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 736 Lines: 30 In a message dated 09/06/98 10:30:18, you write: > On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:08:40 EDT, wrote: > > Hi > > > >In a message dated 07/06/98 21:10:08, you write: > > > >> Personally I don't see the problem in posting "private" emails to a list. > > > >Says a lot. > > > >Bill. > > I sometimes wonder why you stick around Bill. You don't seem to get > along with anyone. It's your right as much as mine to stay, but, if I > were in your shoes, I don't think I'd like it here. > > > Bye, First of all because I really like SAM and want to do what I can to ensure it has a future. Second. Because I do not like to see people get away with using bully tactics to get people off this list. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 18:36:44 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <422c4fec.357d6fe0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:24:46 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Robert is the Idiot!!!!!!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 643 Lines: 24 In a message dated 09/06/98 10:30:15, you write: > From private email from Bill Ritman: > > > > I think we're getting to the point where we need to consider > > changing the > > > rules on the list then. Or starting a new one up. > > > > > > Simon > > > > I would have thought that most of the regular and long term > > members would have > > joined me in flaming Robert for his shameful behaviour. But so > > far nothing, > > WHY? > > Because you're annoying, pompous, obnoxious, abusive and rude? > > Simon Not another person who can't tell the difference between private emails and emails to the list. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 18:36:46 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:24:49 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: WARNING to all Sam webmasters Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 223 Lines: 14 In a message dated 09/06/98 10:30:29, you write: > > What's he been claiming? > > What a completely gitty idiot of an individual Bob is. > > *sigh* > > Simon > Your true colours showing through Simon? Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 18:36:46 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: <6517776c.357d6fe4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:24:51 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fed up Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 622 Lines: 21 In a message dated 09/06/98 14:48:11, you write: > > Legally you shouldn't do it either because the author retains copyright. > > > If this were the case, then no criminal trial could ever be held - > Imagine - threatening letters? Can't be used in evidence because the author > retains copyright? I think not. As far as I was aware, there is no copyright > on the english language. > > DMZ No, but there is when you use it. Try reading the Copyright Website at http://www.benedict.com There is also some very good material on the subject on one of the European Union sites but I have lost the URL. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 18:36:46 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 18:31:11 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Mork X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 616 Lines: 18 At 4:01 pm +0100 9/6/98, William McGugan wrote: >Hello Sam people. > >Anyone remember me? Didn't you write the puzzle pages on early FREDs? Andrew -- +----------------+-----------------------------+----------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | to a fool | +----------------+-----------------------------+ and he calls | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | you foolish | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | -- Euripides | +----------------------------------------------+----------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 18:36:48 1998 Message-ID: <357D71D5.63718106@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 18:33:09 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Mork References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 224 Lines: 12 William McGugan wrote: > > Hello Sam people. > > Anyone remember me? > > Will (aka. Mork) Of course!! Blimey!! Hello! :) Welcome to World War 3 :) -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 19:06:09 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:47:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. In-reply-to: <65169ac9.357cfe52@aol.com> Message-Id: <19980609175408Z49171-27049+553@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2320 Lines: 60 > From: FormatPub@aol.com > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 05:20:16 EDT > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: A Brief(ish) Statement. > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 98 18:34:03 BST > > First. A couple of points. > > 1) You are all aware that I signed contracts with SAMCo's liquidator and MGT's > receiver that transferred all copyrights vested in those two companies to > myself (with certain exceptions such as those regarding the SAM ASIC). Under > pre-existing contracts the hardware was then contracted to WCC and the > Software to Revelation. I retained selected copyrights and intellectual > property rights in order to safeguard the SAM. Selected I note.... > 2) Anything written, either in material form or in electronic form, is > copyright unless the author specifically says in writing that he waves his > rights in the matter. The copyright applies equally to email and I understand > that there have already been test cases in this. In which country? Are we talking about UK law here? > Now to the matter in hand. > > On Saturday the 6th June I received three separate emails from people on this > list, thank you. Or "clones" ? > Each pointing me at a web site run by Andrew Collier. Given the details in one > email I became concerned. I immediately visited the site and printed out the > contents of two pages (urls). Now... as I am the person who seems to be actually mentioned in these emails... I believe I should have had as much say in the inclusion of them or not. I have had no objections to their postings even tho they seem to involve SLANDEROUS COMMENTS by someone who is NOT Andrew. If I had in fact questioned the nature of the content of the emails after reading the copies ... the person in question - ie NOT Andrew - could not only have been removed from their ISP, but also have had legal action taking against them. > being used, but I would not withhold permission without good reason. Blatant > posting of private emails is different, especially when taken out of context > and with unfair comments added. Added? You mean there wasn't any in the first place? > I understand that the pages have now been removed. > > I consider that is an end to the matter. > Bob Brenchley. Right. Sure. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 19:18:07 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980609175408Z49171-27049+553@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> References: <65169ac9.357cfe52@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:14:00 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 766 Lines: 23 At 6:47 pm +0100 9/6/98, David Ledbury at wrote: >> On Saturday the 6th June I received three separate emails from people on >>this >> list, thank you. > >Or "clones" ? It's quite clear we can't ask Bob to revel the names of those three people.... But do any of them feel like owning up? Andrew -- +----------------+-----------------------------+----------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | to a fool | +----------------+-----------------------------+ and he calls | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | you foolish | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | -- Euripides | +----------------------------------------------+----------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 19:30:19 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19980609175408Z49171-27049+553@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> <65169ac9.357cfe52@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:25:38 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 684 Lines: 20 At 7:14 pm +0100 9/6/98, Andrew Collier wrote: >It's quite clear we can't ask Bob to revel the names of those three people.... Hmph. I meant "reveal", obviously. >But do any of them feel like owning up? > >Andrew -- +----------------+-----------------------------+----------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | to a fool | +----------------+-----------------------------+ and he calls | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | you foolish | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | -- Euripides | +----------------------------------------------+----------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 21:18:19 1998 Message-Id: <199806092011.VAA23050@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:11:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The SAM FPC In-reply-to: <199806090032.BAA19448@ruby.comlab> References: <199806082221.XAA07873@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from Dave Hooper at "Jun 8, 98 11:20:37 pm" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 838 Lines: 19 > > yeh, i'll do it. gimme layout, i'll givya sommat nice. > > also tell me what kinda style you're looking for. i mean, we're > > talking the ui not just a title screen, right? d'you want designs for > > mouse pointers as well, etc? > > Don't forget to claim copyright on it once he's published it... do i need to? i trust mr. skists won't run off with it all and screw me over just for a little bit of a screen layout... and i'm sure also that justin'd copyright the finished program so i'm ok there. question: suppose i 'claimed copyright' on my design and, like, graphics and stuff. and then someone put up snapshots of it up on web pages and the like... would i have a case to claim breach of something or other... enough to force them to take the images OFF the web server? (not that i would mind! just wondering) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 22:00:37 1998 Message-Id: <199806092021.VAA23867@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:21:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: MIDI-Bar (Was: The SAM FPC) In-reply-to: <8025661E.002EB882.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1567 Lines: 41 > That is very excellent of you! :) s'alright > Do you know of some MIDI file players that have a the main screen showing > nice colourful lines displaying which note is being played on what channel? err... no. but do go on. > Well, I'm on my way of making one of those. But for now, it's just going > to display the notes/etc as thay come into the MIDI In port on the back of > the SAM. > So, unfortunately, there won't be a UI as such. The only button to be > pressed is the NMI button at the back to get out. Certainly no mouse > pointers (I don't have a mouse anyway). oh. ok. so what's /actually/ on the screen then? apart from a big blank bit that will slowly (or quickly, or whatever) fill up with MIDI hex? > I know what, when I get the code near a state of releasability, I'll > create a simple screen with all the appropriate bits and bobs and > you can jazz it up a bit (most likely the edges)?? well, ok. but i don't mind working on whatever you have at the moment. y'know, i'm still having a go at writing a simple text editor for the sam. (simple-ish). obviously i'm not spending a great deal of time on it, but (since starting around 3 years ago) i've started work again using simcoupe as the development platform. going smoothly. anti-aliased fonts; 85 x 32 character display (or lower rezs, down to 42 x 12 ... although that particular one isn't so useful...); just a text editor. full 256-character set. don't know whether to use a copyright symbol at $128 though, or the funny MS-DOS triangle thing they've got. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 22:00:38 1998 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:25:44 +0100 (BST) From: D A Fulton To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM FPC In-Reply-To: <199806072328.AAA13501@ruby.comlab> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 575 Lines: 18 > Don't tell me he's going to say something Sam-related?!... 'fraid so! > > > in that, after calling the same function several times, my program stopped > > with a "Number too big" error. > > Icester that the floating-point calculator is very fussy about its entry > conditions. Unfortunately I can't remember all of them, but I'm fairly > sure it does weird things if your code is in section D. Where is your > routine? funnily enough... it's in section D! Think I might have found the problem, thanks! I'll let you know after I check the code this weekend. Dave. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 22:00:39 1998 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:26:41 +0100 (BST) From: D A Fulton To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: The SAM FPC In-Reply-To: <000001bd926f$c4ba22c0$f292accf@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 599 Lines: 16 > > Icester that the floating-point calculator is very fussy about its entry > > conditions. Unfortunately I can't remember all of them, but I'm fairly > > sure it does weird things if your code is in section D. Where is your > > routine? > > Even better... can you let us know what you're trying to do with it? > > I'm sure I've got a 32bit divide routine somewhere... > > Might be able to get rid of the floating point for you. Well, it was just some simple addition actually. I was going to use it for other stuff once the program progressed, but I never got round to finishing it. Dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 22:00:40 1998 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:28:04 +0100 (BST) From: D A Fulton To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM FPC In-Reply-To: <8025661D.003B56C9.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 562 Lines: 15 > Arrrggghhhh!!!! Not the dreaded FPC!!! > > I once tried to use SAM's FPC. Complicated, 'twaz. > > If I remember rightly, your calculation code had to be in Block C. And all > that pushing and popping made my program (MIDI SMF player) go way too slow > and the result was really funny (I made some rounding errors... :). Sorry, > but I'll have to go home and check what I had to do to get it working the > way I wanted it to. > Ian said the same thing - using it from Block D is probably my problem. Never mind, maybe I'll just write my own machine. Dave. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 22:00:40 1998 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:29:16 +0100 (BST) From: D A Fulton To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM FPC In-Reply-To: <8025661D.003B56C9.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1524 Lines: 37 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Fulton (D.A.Fulton@durham.ac.uk) Trevelyan College, University of Durham. Pager (01523) 793378 - 55p/message 8 till 6, 35p all other times Web page will be upgraded shortly. Apologies for the fairly antiquated rubbish currently located at www.dur.ac.uk/~d60m3c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 Justin_Skists@case.co.uk wrote: > >I'm using the built-in floating point calculator in the ROM to perform a > >quick calculation on the amount of free space (I think I got the codes > >to use it from Steve Taylor's tutorial in FRED) and encountered a problem > >in that, after calling the same function several times, my program stopped > >with a "Number too big" error. The first few executions are fine, then > >something goes haywire, with the value becoming more and more inaccurate > >before the error. > > Arrrggghhhh!!!! Not the dreaded FPC!!! > > I once tried to use SAM's FPC. Complicated, 'twaz. > > If I remember rightly, your calculation code had to be in Block C. And all > that pushing and popping made my program (MIDI SMF player) go way too slow > and the result was really funny (I made some rounding errors... :). Sorry, > but I'll have to go home and check what I had to do to get it working the > way I wanted it to. Ian said the same thing - using it from Block D is probably my problem. Never mind, maybe I'll just write my own machine. Dave. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 22:24:44 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:16:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Robert is the Idiot!!!!!!! In-reply-to: <422c4fec.357d6fe0@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 845 Lines: 26 From: > In a message dated 09/06/98 10:30:15, you write: > > From private email from Bill Ritman: > > > > I think we're getting to the point where we need to consider > > > changing the > > > > rules on the list then. Or starting a new one up. > > > > Simon > > > I would have thought that most of the regular and long term > > > members would have > > > joined me in flaming Robert for his shameful behaviour. But so > > > far nothing, > > > WHY? > > Because you're annoying, pompous, obnoxious, abusive and rude? > > Simon > Not another person who can't tell the difference between private emails and > emails to the list. > Bill. Says the person who took a public message from the mailing list and replied it in private with there abusive comments added to the end. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 22:24:44 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:16:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Fed up In-reply-to: <199806091201.NAA23283@ruby.comlab> References: <011f01bd9395$d9ac4d80$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> from Dave at "Jun 9, 98 12:00:14 pm" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 773 Lines: 20 From: Ian Collier > > own the copyright on any email message he sends. The email message > > belongs to the recipient, not the sender, and unless a disclaimer > > is added to the message explicitly forbidding reproduction elsewhere > > Sorry Dave, I hate to agree with Bob, but you are wrong. Also, I hate > to agree with Bill but there _is_ a piece of netiquette which says you > shouldn't post private emails. > imc So in the same context, does an author of a book, not retain copyright, instead the copyright is passed to the purchaser of the book ??? I'm getting confused here, and i don't know that anyone here is qualified enough to answer these questions of law.... unless you inform me to the contrary. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 22:24:55 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:16:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. In-reply-to: <65169ac9.357cfe52@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3063 Lines: 82 From: FormatPub@aol.com > I'm still not back properly, but I thought it best to write this as I have > had a couple of telephone calls on the subject this evening. Please note that > I do not intend to enter into any correspondence on this subject, either on > the list or by private email, as it is not a matter that needs discussion. Oh?, No you havent told us what subject. And if your not prepared to enter any correspondence then why the hell are you posting this e-mail telling us your not prepares to enter any correspondence???? > > 1) You are all aware that I signed contracts with SAMCo's liquidator and MGT's > receiver that transferred all copyrights vested in those two companies to > myself (with certain exceptions such as those regarding the SAM ASIC). Under > pre-existing contracts the hardware was then contracted to WCC and the > Software to Revelation. I retained selected copyrights and intellectual > property rights in order to safeguard the SAM. Please for all our sakes will you tell us what selected copyrights you have selected so that we dont step on your toes ???? > 2) Anything written, either in material form or in electronic form, is > copyright unless the author specifically says in writing that he waves his > rights in the matter. The copyright applies equally to email and I understand > that there have already been test cases in this. Well i reckon the copyright could quite easily be worked around by not quoting the exact e-mail, but instead giving you own view in your own words about the messages received. After all, isnt this what happens in the tabloids?? > Andrew, and two images. There was no time for any other action. I am VERY busy > at the moment and was not prepared to waste time by taking a different route > to the same goal. I would say that we are all very busy, but some of us take the curtesy of going about things in a helpful manor to try to resolve problems. > I would like to point out that there are many images floating about on SAM web > sites which I could make a good case for holding the copyright on. Normally I > do not mind, they help to promote the SAM after all. I would of course like > people to ask before they use something, if only so I know where and what is > being used, but I would not withhold permission without good reason. Blatant > posting of private emails is different, especially when taken out of context > and with unfair comments added. Maybe everybody who has Sam logo's on there web pages should remove them to stop any more publicity ???? In fact don't anybody put the word SAM on there web page, just incase.. After all, your not getting any money for advertising are you ? > I understand that the pages have now been removed. But some of us have the pages stored on local drives..... > I consider that is an end to the matter. You always consider your word as being the end of the matter don't you ? I consider that is my last posting on the subject....... untill i get angry again :-) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 22:24:56 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:16:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Copyright shmopyright In-reply-to: <357D51FC.60697374@purple.dircon.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 232 Lines: 14 From: Gavin Smith > I'm bored! Change the subject! :) Yeah, me too, lets talk about something S@M related..... ..... .... erm, sorry cant think of anything :-) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 22:24:57 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:16:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Mork In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 295 Lines: 20 From: William McGugan > Hello Sam people. Hello my friend. > Anyone remember me? > > Will (aka. Mork) > Erm, sorry, not me, but then again, i'm terrible with names.......... what did you say they called you again ??? :-) -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 22:55:42 1998 Message-Id: <199806092147.XAA04557@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: let's hold reallllllly long grudges Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 23:47:00 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 469 Lines: 19 > Van: BillRitman@aol.com > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > First of all because I really like SAM and want to do what I can to ensure it > has a future. You then have a rather funny way of showing it. > Second. Because I do not like to see people get away with using bully tactics > to get people off this list. Hello mr. Kettle -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Jun 9 23:23:01 1998 Message-Id: <199806092200.XAA15714@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 23:00:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Fed up In-reply-to: <01a501bd93b3$f286ee00$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 475 Lines: 13 > If this were the case, then no criminal trial could ever be held - > Imagine - threatening letters? Can't be used in evidence because the author Does this mean that you can't sue people for what they wrote in books, since that's copyright? The phrase "don't be daft" comes to mind. :) Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 00:00:29 1998 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 98 22:46:24 GMT Message-ID: <1097_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> From: James@lhutz.demon.co.uk (James R Curry) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: OASIS Post Box (Atari) v1.31E Subject: Re: Mork X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 534 Lines: 33 OASIS_E-Mail: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk wrote:- >>Hello Sam people. > >Hi there. > > >>Anyone remember me? >> >>Will (aka. Mork) > >Nope. Sorry. Nice to meet you though! :) > > >Justin. I remember you! :) __ James R Curry - James@lhutz.demon.co.uk "You're missing the point! The individual doesn't matter. It was a team effort, and I was the one who came up with the whole team idea...me!" - Homer Simpson, The Simpsons. Please insert meaningless promise about The Official James R Curry web page here... From imc Wed Jun 10 00:58:58 1998 Subject: Re: Fed up In-Reply-To: from Dean Liversidge at "Jun 9, 98 10:16:30 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 00:58:58 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 582 Lines: 14 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:16:30 +0100, Dean Liversidge said: > From: Ian Collier [quoting DMZ] > > > The email message > > > belongs to the recipient, not the sender > > Sorry Dave, I hate to agree with Bob, but you are wrong. > So in the same context, does an author of a book, not retain copyright, instead > the copyright is passed to the purchaser of the book ??? That is the opposite of what I said. The author of anything retains copyright (unless it is deliberately given away or sold). imc From imc Wed Jun 10 01:00:08 1998 Subject: Re: The SAM FPC In-Reply-To: <199806092011.VAA23050@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from Dave Hooper at "Jun 9, 98 09:11:29 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 01:00:08 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 235 Lines: 9 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:11:29 +0000, Dave Hooper said: imc> Don't forget to claim copyright on it once he's published it... > do i need to? No no I was attempting to be satirical given the current circumstances. Oh never mind... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 08:56:45 1998 Message-ID: <008601bd9444$8101aea0$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: Fed up Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:50:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 843 Lines: 25 >Try reading the Copyright Website at http://www.benedict.com > >There is also some very good material on the subject on one of the European >Union sites but I have lost the URL. > >Bill. > Thanks for the URL - although this appears to be American law, I believe that copyright law is more or less global. I've looked at the site and it looks like you _can_ repost in that manner, depending on content. Although an email is subject to copyright law, the content itself must be copyrightable - which it doesn't look like it is in this case. I'm no legal expert, though. Unless somebody with a degree in law with a speciality on the internet and copyright comes onto the list, I'd say it's open to debate - sorry, I should say not open to debate since otherwise it's going to turn into yet _another_ argument clogging up the list. DMZ --- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 09:34:01 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661F.002EC7C7.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:36:29 +0100 Subject: Re: The SAM FPC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 466 Lines: 14 >> Don't forget to claim copyright on it once he's published it... > >do i need to? i trust mr. skists won't run off with it all and screw >me over just for a little bit of a screen layout... and i'm sure also >that justin'd copyright the finished program so i'm ok there. Bloody hell... It's only a little program! :) OK. I promise I won't run off with it and screw anyone over. Or perhaps I could show it to a nice lass in the hope of a scr...[snip]. Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 11:11:56 1998 Message-ID: From: William McGugan To: "'sam-users@nvg.unit.no'" Subject: RE: Mork Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:58:52 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 481 Lines: 24 Hey Cool. My reputation lives on. :) I'm a Sam Coupe old timer. Responsible for Puzzle corner, Ore Warz and numerous contributions to Fred and other mags. Ive recently rediscovered the Sam scene through SimCoupe. Any one want a copy of the never released Ore Warz II in .dsk format? Will Aka Mork >---------- >From: William McGugan >Sent: 09 June 1998 16:01 >To: 'sam-users@nvg.unit.no' >Subject: Mork > >Hello Sam people. > >Anyone remember me? > >Will (aka. Mork) > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 11:11:57 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661F.002FE3B1.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:08:14 +0100 Subject: Re: MIDI-Bar (Was: The SAM FPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1007 Lines: 25 >oh. ok. so what's /actually/ on the screen then? apart from a big >blank bit that will slowly (or quickly, or whatever) fill up with >MIDI hex? Actually, I haven't exacty decided what's going on the screen. It depends on how quickly my code will go (and if I ever sort this bug out). Let me explain what it does (more like, will do) then: There is no hex shown (at least, not in this version). There will be a "big blank bit". Actually, it's a "big blank bit" segmented into 16 (will be 32) "smaller blank bits". Each corresponding to a MIDI channel (1 to 16). When a NoteOn message comes in to the MIDI port, a little coloured line will be drawn indicating which note it was (and in future, the highest volume note will be shown as the max volume) in which of the 16 segments. Middle C will be a little line roughly in the centre, and High C will be a little bit up, etc. I agree it ain't breath-taking stuff, but I ain't a "bloody stupid demo coder" as someone once put it. Unfortunately... Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 11:34:25 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661F.0038137C.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:35:42 +0100 Subject: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1845 Lines: 44 Hi, I'm just chasing a small bug in my MIDI-Bar code. Actually, it's pretty fundemental in the who thing..... I have a very small ISR which when it gets a Mode 1 interrupt, it checks for the MIDI In bit of the status port. If it's low, it grabs the byte from 253 and sticks it into a 256byte cyclic buffer for the rest of the code to use (if it ain't 0xFE), decode and display in it's own time... Now, upon seeing that it doesn't always display the right notes all the time, I stop the program and look at the buffer and woe-and- behold....every now and then, a byte is repeated for some strange reason. It looked like to me that the SAM is getting another interrupt from somewhere after it's checked the first and when my ISR goes to read the status port, the MIDI In bit could still be set low thus my ISR thinking it's a new byte and giving it to the buffer. Masking the rest of the status bits and ignoring the interrupt if any of the others were set low didn't work either. Putting a delay loop in the ISR didn't work (and when it was too long, some bytes were missed out all together). Disconnecting my Quazar SurroundSound (in case that was generating any interrupts (Sorry Colin, I didn't trust anything last night)) didn't make any difference. Are there any other interrupt generators internal to the SAM that isn't shwon in the status port? It wasn't until on my way to work that I realised I should've disabled the rest of the code to just see what the ISR does all the time. But I was wondering if there is a known bug in the MIDI interrupt circuitry and if there is any work around. (There must be, Tim Humphries' Sequencer seemed to work alright) Justin. PS. Knowing my luck, I'm probably embarrasing myself here coz it's bound to end up being a "ld (hl),a" when it should be a "ld a,(hl)" in the main code or something. From imc Wed Jun 10 13:11:12 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <8025661F.0038137C.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at "Jun 10, 98 11:35:42 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:11:12 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 1781 Lines: 32 On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:35:42 +0100, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk said: > It wasn't until on my way to work that I realised I should've > disabled the rest of the code to just see what the ISR does > all the time. But I was wondering if there is a known bug in > the MIDI interrupt circuitry and if there is any work around. > (There must be, Tim Humphries' Sequencer seemed to work > alright) In the past I have found the MIDI interrupt almost useless, not because of repetitions but because the interrupt service routine took too long and bytes were being missed out. I suppose this could be different if you page the ROM out and install your own handler, but anyway I ended up dispensing with it altogether and using some other bit (I forget what but I could find out) to input in a tight loop until there was a pause of sufficient length. But that makes asynchronous input rather more difficult so I don't suppose it's much use to you... I think Allan discovered that the interrupt line is held active for about 100 microseconds when an interrupt occurs, so if your interrupt service routine takes less than that then the interrupt might repeat itself when the routine returns. You could test this by writing an interrupt handler which says "push hl:ld hl,(counter):inc hl:ld(counter),hl:pop hl:ei:ret" and seeing how fast the counter counts up. How long does it take to transmit a byte over MIDI? It's a 31.25 Kbps protocol, I am reliably informed (that sounds right as about 112 Tstates per bit on a Spectrum is a vaguely familiar number). That makes 320 microseconds to transmit a byte with a start bit and a stop bit. So in theory it ought to be possible to wait until the 100 microseconds is up and then have some time to spare before the next interrupt arrives. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 13:19:28 1998 Message-ID: <357E74FC.8258E3D2@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:58:52 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Mork References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 608 Lines: 17 William McGugan wrote: > > Hey Cool. My reputation lives on. :) > > I'm a Sam Coupe old timer. Responsible for Puzzle corner, Ore Warz and > numerous contributions to Fred and other mags. > > Ive recently rediscovered the Sam scene through SimCoupe. Any one want a > copy of the never released Ore Warz II in .dsk format? YES!!! YES PLEASE!!! :))))))))) Oy! Dave! Wouldn't this be ideal for Blitz? ;) -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Community as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.purple.dircon.co.uk/samcom * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 13:29:37 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661F.00445C73.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:27:28 +0100 Subject: Re: Mork Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 220 Lines: 9 >> Hey Cool. My reputation lives on. :) >> >> I'm a Sam Coupe old timer. Responsible for Puzzle corner, Ore Warz and >> numerous contributions to Fred and other mags. What was Ore Warz about? (And the sequel?) Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 13:36:31 1998 Message-ID: From: William McGugan To: "'sam-users@nvg.unit.no'" Subject: RE: Mork Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:46:01 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 651 Lines: 25 It's a strategy game, similar to the spectrum classic RebelStar. It was very popular in it's time :) The sequel should have been released, but it never happened. I think I will upload OW2 to my web page tonight because its a damn shame that nobody saw it. Will >---------- >From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk[SMTP:Justin_Skists@case.co.uk] >Sent: 10 June 1998 13:27 >To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no >Subject: Re: Mork > >>> Hey Cool. My reputation lives on. :) >>> >>> I'm a Sam Coupe old timer. Responsible for Puzzle corner, Ore Warz and >>> numerous contributions to Fred and other mags. > >What was Ore Warz about? (And the sequel?) > >Justin > > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 14:13:05 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. References: X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 10 Jun 1998 14:00:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Dean Liversidge"'s message of "Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:16:30 +0100" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 308 Lines: 13 "Dean Liversidge" writes: > From: FormatPub@aol.com > > > I understand that the pages have now been removed. > But some of us have the pages stored on local drives..... Yeah, don't you just love 20M cache files ;) Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 14:13:06 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:00:47 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Mork MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 265 Lines: 17 > Hello Sam people. > > Anyone remember me? > > Will (aka. Mork) Not arf. Alright matey! Dan, Dan the Banzai man...[1] Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ [1] Oooh, it's been a long time since said that! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 14:13:08 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM FPC References: X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 10 Jun 1998 14:04:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: D A Fulton's message of "Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:29:16 +0100 (BST)" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 779 Lines: 19 D A Fulton writes: > > If I remember rightly, your calculation code had to be in Block C. And all > > that pushing and popping made my program (MIDI SMF player) go way too slow > > and the result was really funny (I made some rounding errors... :). Sorry, > > but I'll have to go home and check what I had to do to get it working the > > way I wanted it to. > > Ian said the same thing - using it from Block D is probably my problem. > Never mind, maybe I'll just write my own machine. Yep, sounds right, I think the FPC uses Page D for something or other and then gets all confused 'coz it tries to get instructions that it's just paged out without realising that it's just paged them out. Doh! Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 14:42:11 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ILGW@C&L NL @ C&L INT @ C&L INT EXTERNAL@OUTBOUND @INTERLIANT From: Stefan Drissen To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Message-ID: <8625661F.0047CF31.00@internet-502.interliant.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:57:10 +0200 Subject: Re: Mork Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1271 Lines: 40 Andrew wrote: >At 4:01 pm +0100 9/6/98, William McGugan wrote: >>Hello Sam people. >> >>Anyone remember me? > >Didn't you write the puzzle pages on early FREDs? > >Andrew Not to forget that rather groovey laser squad type game. What on earth was it called again? Any chance of all the bonus levels (were shareware I believe) being put up on NVG? Stefan -- **************************************** This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. **************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 14:42:11 1998 Message-ID: From: William McGugan To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Mork Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:29:39 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 760 Lines: 36 >---------- >From: Scott Russell[SMTP:srussell@atlan-tech.com] >Sent: 10 June 1998 14:40 >To: William McGugan >Subject: RE: Mork > >Any chance you could send OW2 in a SAM disc? I don't have my Sam any more, it was stolen :( I was only left with one box of disks that happily contained a backup of OW2. I think Samdisk.exe can copy a .dsk file back on to a sam disk. > >Does it need the 512K upgrade? Dont think so. >Cheers > >Scott Russell > >PS Isn't Digital Animations that place in Bellshill that did the intro >for >Deathtrap Dungeon? If so, I'm a C++ programmer in Cumbernauld, pleased >to >meet you. Right! The arty type people on the other side of the office did the intro. I'm a C++/Asm coder myself. Please to meet you too... Will From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 14:42:12 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661F.00497C33.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:22:57 +0100 Subject: Re: The SAM FPC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 246 Lines: 9 >Yep, sounds right, I think the FPC uses Page D for something or other >and then gets all confused 'coz it tries to get instructions that it's >just paged out without realising that it's just paged them out. Doh! It's called ROM1.. :) Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 14:42:13 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:16:53 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Mork MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 229 Lines: 12 > I think I will upload OW2 to my web page tonight > because its a damn shame that nobody saw it. Aha! The URL if you please... Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 14:42:14 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661F.00471603.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:28:18 +0100 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 2249 Lines: 55 IMC replied to my plight: >In the past I have found the MIDI interrupt almost useless, not because of >repetitions but because the interrupt service routine took too long and >bytes were being missed out. I suppose this could be different if you page >the ROM out and install your own handler, That's what I did. It's on the foundation of a completely new operating system that will never get finished... (My Xenopsys project) > but anyway I ended up dispensing >with it altogether and using some other bit (I forget what but I could find >out) to input in a tight loop until there was a pause of sufficient length. >But that makes asynchronous input rather more difficult so I don't suppose >it's much use to you... Could be interesting to see though.. :) >I think Allan discovered that the interrupt line is held active for about >100 microseconds when an interrupt occurs, so if your interrupt service >routine takes less than that then the interrupt might repeat itself when >the routine returns. You could test this by writing an interrupt handler >which says "push hl:ld hl,(counter):inc hl:ld(counter),hl:pop hl:ei:ret" >and seeing how fast the counter counts up. > >How long does it take to transmit a byte over MIDI? It's a 31.25 Kbps >protocol, I am reliably informed (that sounds right as about 112 Tstates >per bit on a Spectrum is a vaguely familiar number). That makes 320 >microseconds to transmit a byte with a start bit and a stop bit. So in >theory it ought to be possible to wait until the 100 microseconds is up >and then have some time to spare before the next interrupt arrives. *laughs* I never thought I could write an ISR that would run too fast! I did try to make the thing as fast as possible and ignoring any other interrupt types. Minimalistic coding: what you get from working in a real-time programming job... How many t-states equate to 100 microseconds? Perhaps I could work out roughly how long my ISR is taking when it's doing its job and calculate (rather than guestimate) what delay loop I need... But, wouldn't I get a repeated byte ever time? It only happens every now and then (usually around the second or third note I play on the keyboard) Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 14:42:15 1998 Message-ID: From: William McGugan To: "'sam-users@nvg.unit.no'" Subject: RE: Mork Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:37:24 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 444 Lines: 28 Baaaaanzaaaaaaiiiiii! :) >---------- >From: Dan Doore[SMTP:dan@armature.com] >Sent: 10 June 1998 15:00 >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >Subject: RE: Mork > >> Hello Sam people. >> >> Anyone remember me? >> >> Will (aka. Mork) > >Not arf. > >Alright matey! > >Dan, Dan the Banzai man...[1] > >Work: dan@armature.com >Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk >VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ > >[1] Oooh, it's been a long time since said that! > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 14:42:16 1998 Message-ID: From: William McGugan To: "'sam-users@nvg.unit.no'" Subject: Ore Warz 2 - This time it's personal Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:40:51 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 84 Lines: 6 Get it while its hot. ftp://ftp.nvg.unit.no/pub/sam-coupe/incoming/OW2.ZIP Will From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 14:50:26 1998 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: The SAM FPC References: <8025661F.00497C33.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware X-{giggle}: Lots! From: The Giggler Date: 10 Jun 1998 14:44:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk's message of "Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:22:57 +0100" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.66/Emacs 19.34 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 534 Lines: 18 Justin_Skists@case.co.uk writes: > >Yep, sounds right, I think the FPC uses Page D for something or other > >and then gets all confused 'coz it tries to get instructions that it's > >just paged out without realising that it's just paged them out. Doh! > > It's called ROM1.. :) Ah, yeah that'd be it, it's been too long, thank God I get to play with my beloved SAM again soon, the joys of Z80 Assembler in a manually paged environment ;). Beats writing X apps in C anyday ... Lee. -- Yawn And Walk North http://yawn.nocrew.org/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 15:53:32 1998 From: "E.P.R.P. Blink" Organization: Hanzehogeschool Groningen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:47:21 MET Subject: Hard disk boot ROM X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <14AA5D5109@mail1.pl.hanze.nl> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 869 Lines: 25 I just thougth I let you all now that there now is a boot ROM for use with B-DOS, hard disk & ATOM Interface. That allowes booting DOS directly from hard disk. When the ROM in the SAM is replaced with the HD BOOT ROM. Each time the SAM is turned on or reseted. The SAM will press F9 for you to boot automatically if theres no DOS in memory. DOS is booted from hard disk if theres a valid bootsector and DOS on the hard disk. If not. DOS will be booted from floppy (if a floppy is inserted ofcourse).. It is also possible to boot directly from floppy by holding down the SPACE BAR during power on / reset Extra features: - SAA sound chip is cleared directly after power on / reset. - he funktion keys F7 and F8 are set to DIR for a normal directory and DIR PEEK SVAR 7 for a detailed directory. The HD BOOT ROM will be available soon. Edwin Blink. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 17:02:19 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <8025661F.0058211A.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:04:56 +0100 Subject: int to ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 112 Lines: 7 Hi. Anyone got any fast Z80 routines to convert bytes/words/longs into ASCII decimal representation?? Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 17:27:10 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:21:06 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Mork MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 339 Lines: 17 > Baaaaanzaaaaaaiiiiii! :) I'll take that as a "Hi" then... ;-) ---- I think it's about time I did another "Real" Sam users list again, so I'll do one tonight methinks. Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ Sam Coupe VVebring: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/coupe/webring/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 18:08:53 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: sskardon@argonet.co.uk (Stewart Skardon) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 16:29:50 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: Hard disk boot ROM Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1544 Lines: 53 On Wed 10 Jun 98 (16:47:21), e.p.r.p.blink@pl.hanze.nl wrote: > >I just thougth I let you all now that there now is a boot ROM for use >with B-DOS, hard disk & ATOM Interface. That allowes booting >DOS directly from hard disk. > Sounds good. >When the ROM in the SAM is replaced with the HD BOOT ROM. >Each time the SAM is turned on or reseted. The SAM will press F9 >for you to boot automatically if theres no DOS in memory. > >DOS is booted from hard disk if theres a valid bootsector and DOS on >the hard disk. If not. DOS will be booted from floppy (if a floppy is >inserted ofcourse).. Oooooh...Cue arguements about corrupting disks. :-) >It is also possible to boot directly from floppy by holding down the >SPACE BAR during power on / reset > >Extra features: > >- SAA sound chip is cleared directly after power on / reset. >- he funktion keys F7 and F8 are set to DIR for a normal directory > and DIR PEEK SVAR 7 for a detailed directory. > >The HD BOOT ROM will be available soon. > >Edwin Blink. And have you checked with the great master Bob about tinkering with your SAM? You could be breaking copyright laws. :-) Please do keep us all posted about this Edwin. I for one could be VERY interested when I get my Atom. Stewart -- _ (_'tewart email : sskardon@argonet.co.uk ,_)kardon http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/stewart/ * * * UPDATED - Stewart's SAM Information Pages. * * * http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/sampages/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 18:17:07 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:11:49 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Real Sam Users List MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 2690 Lines: 87 Ladies and Germs, Here is the list of sam-users, as usual if you are an unknown or I have spelt you name hideously wrong, then let me know. Dan. ---- Allen Skillman allan.skillman@arm.com Andrew Collier asc25@cam.ac.uk Andy Chandler ajchandler@hotmail.com Andy Gale ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Ben Curren ELA95BEC@sheffield.ac.uk Ben Versteeg ben@charm.il.ft.hse.nl Bill Ritman BillRitman@aol.com Bob Brenchley BrenchleyR@aol.com Chris White whitey@cid.prestel.co.uk Colin MacDonald Gouranga@aol.com Colin Piggot c_piggot@hotmail.com Dan Doore dan@armature.com Dave (?) 101762.2062@compuserve.com Dave Fulton D.A.Fulton@durham.ac.uk Dave Handley d.handley@lancaster.ac.uk Dave Hooper d.c.hooper@sms.ed.ac.uk Dave Whitmore davewhitmore@enterprise.net David Munden davidm@enterprise.net David Zambonini D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk David Zambonini dzambonini@orctel.co.uk Dean Liversidge dean@error.demon.co.uk Edwin Blink e.p.r.p.blink@pl.hanze.nl Frode Tennebo ft@edh.ericsson.se Gary MacKenzie gary@avtech.demon.co.uk Gavin Smith gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk Gianni "BBKaneda" bbk@bbk.org Ian Armstrong mail01@iarmst.demon.co.uk Ian Collier Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk Ian Dalziel IDalziel@idalziel.demon.co.uk James Curry James@lhutz.demon.co.uk Jeff Crawford samcoupe@cadderly.demon.co.uk Johnna Teare j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk Justin Skists Justin_Skists@case.co.uk Lee Willis l.willis@comp.brad.ac.uk Luke Falla (?) lukef@iplbath.com Luke Trevorrow blackadder@orinocco.demon.co.uk Martin/Maria Rookyard rookyard@btinternet.com Matthew Craven mcbi6mc2@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk Neil Maynard mne2@cableol.co.uk Nev Young nevilley@nfy53.demon.co.uk Paul Horridge paulh@maths.warwick.ac.uk Paul Nolan PNolan@clubi.ie Paul Walker pwalker@zetnet.co.uk Persona persona@clara.net Peter Harkess peterharkess@nuearth.demon.co.uk Phil Glover PGLOVER43@aol.com Robert Brady rwb197@ecs.soton.ac.uk Robert Van Der Veeke rjvveeke@caiw.nl Scott Russell srussell@atlan-tech.com Simon Cooke simon.cooke@erols.com Slawomir Grodkowski slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de Stacey Witney switney@huggable.demon.co.uk Stefan Drissen Stefan_Drissen@nl.coopers.com Stephen Harding sh5655@bristol.ac.uk Stewart Skardon sskardon@argonet.co.uk Tim Wells tim@twellys.demon.co.uk Tomasz Pudlo tombox@katowice.pkp.com.pl Wayne Coles wayne@rflect.demon.co.uk William McGugan will@digital-animations.com Unknowns: matthewh@top2.ficnet.net.tw 113354.2207@Compuserve.com misecka@decef.elf.stuba.sk jadams1644@aol.com markus@enterprise.net janowska@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl People who refuse to give their name to the members of this list: Samsboss@Postmaster.co.uk 66 Users subscribed as of 10/06/98 From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 18:24:13 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:16:25 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Hard disk boot ROM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 542 Lines: 17 > When the ROM in the SAM is replaced with the HD BOOT ROM. > Each time the SAM is turned on or reseted. The SAM will press F9 > for you to boot automatically if theres no DOS in memory. Groovy! > It is also possible to boot directly from floppy by holding down the > SPACE BAR during power on / reset Hmm, should it not check the floppy first as a matter of course and if a 'missing disk' error occurs then it should boot from the HD? Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 18:35:18 1998 Message-ID: <357EC363.FA86A7AA@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:33:23 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Hard disk boot ROM References: <14AA5D5109@mail1.pl.hanze.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 824 Lines: 25 E.P.R.P. Blink wrote: > > I just thougth I let you all now that there now is a boot ROM for use > with B-DOS, hard disk & ATOM Interface. That allowes booting > DOS directly from hard disk. That's wonderful news, I was hoping you would do something like that when I first heard about the Atom :) > Extra features: > > - SAA sound chip is cleared directly after power on / reset. > - he funktion keys F7 and F8 are set to DIR for a normal directory > and DIR PEEK SVAR 7 for a detailed directory. So is all tape crap stripped out of the ROM? > The HD BOOT ROM will be available soon. Yummy, any ideas on price? -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * * IRC Undernet's #TheLocal, #SAM-Community as SparkY or SparkYY * * http://www.purple.dircon.co.uk/samcom * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 20:01:58 1998 From: BillRitman Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:54:57 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fed up Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 605 Lines: 19 In a message dated 09/06/98 22:26:57, you write: > > If this were the case, then no criminal trial could ever be held - > > Imagine - threatening letters? Can't be used in evidence because the > author > > Does this mean that you can't sue people for what they wrote in > books, since that's copyright? The phrase "don't be daft" comes to > mind. :) > > > Paul Of course you can, once they have published the book. But a private email or letter is not published. This email, going to the Sam list, is 'published' because access to the list is open to anyone who cares to log on. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 21:00:19 1998 Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 01:20:16 GMT Message-ID: <1098_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> From: James@lhutz.demon.co.uk (James R Curry) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: OASIS Post Box (Atari) v1.31E Subject: Re: MIDI-Bar (Was: The SAM FPC X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2095 Lines: 66 In E-Mail <199806092021.VAA23867@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> "Dave Hooper" <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> wrote:- >> That is very excellent of you! :) > > >s'alright > >> Do you know of some MIDI file players that have a the main screen showing >> nice colourful lines displaying which note is being played on what channel? > >err... no. but do go on. > >> Well, I'm on my way of making one of those. But for now, it's just going >> to display the notes/etc as thay come into the MIDI In port on the back of >> the SAM. > >> So, unfortunately, there won't be a UI as such. The only button to be >> pressed is the NMI button at the back to get out. Certainly no mouse >> pointers (I don't have a mouse anyway). > >oh. ok. so what's /actually/ on the screen then? apart from a big >blank bit that will slowly (or quickly, or whatever) fill up with >MIDI hex? > >> I know what, when I get the code near a state of releasability, I'll >> create a simple screen with all the appropriate bits and bobs and >> you can jazz it up a bit (most likely the edges)?? > >well, ok. but i don't mind working on whatever you have at the >moment. > > >y'know, i'm still having a go at writing a simple text editor for the >sam. (simple-ish). obviously i'm not spending a great deal of time on >it, but (since starting around 3 years ago) i've started work again >using simcoupe as the development platform. going smoothly. >anti-aliased fonts; 85 x 32 character display (or lower rezs, down to >42 x 12 ... although that particular one isn't so useful...); just a >text editor. full 256-character set. don't know whether to use a >copyright symbol at $128 though, or the funny MS-DOS triangle thing >they've got. > >dave > > Sounds good. Have the option for either symbol. __ James R Curry - James@lhutz.demon.co.uk "You're missing the point! The individual doesn't matter. It was a team effort, and I was the one who came up with the whole team idea...me!" - Homer Simpson, The Simpsons. Please insert meaningless promise about The Official James R Curry web page here... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 21:39:16 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:14:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Mork In-reply-to: <357E74FC.8258E3D2@purple.dircon.co.uk> Message-Id: <19980610202952Z49261-27049+917@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 849 Lines: 26 > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:58:52 +0100 > From: Gavin Smith > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: Mork > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 19:09:38 BST > William McGugan wrote: > > > > Hey Cool. My reputation lives on. :) > > > > I'm a Sam Coupe old timer. Responsible for Puzzle corner, Ore Warz and > > numerous contributions to Fred and other mags. > > > > Ive recently rediscovered the Sam scene through SimCoupe. Any one want a > > copy of the never released Ore Warz II in .dsk format? > > YES!!! YES PLEASE!!! :))))))))) Oy! Dave! Wouldn't this be ideal for > Blitz? ;) It'd be great :) If there's any chance of a copy Mork... it'd be great :) David Ledbury BTW ... didn't Orewarz get released on the Zodiac PD lable tho? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 22:23:10 1998 From: Peter Harkess To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:09:11 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Hey Cool. My reputation lives on. :) > > I'm a Sam Coupe old timer. Responsible for Puzzle corner, Ore Warz and > numerous contributions to Fred and other mags. > > Ive recently rediscovered the Sam scene through SimCoupe. Any one want a > copy of the never released Ore Warz II in .dsk format? > > Will Aka Mork > > Kind regards I would like a copy of your game please,but i don't know you as i'm quite recent to the list and only had the sam for about 3 years or so. Some info about you for us newer sam fans please. -- Software suppliers are trying to make their software packages more 'user-friendly'.... Their best approach, so far, has been to take all the old brochures, and stamp the words, 'user-friendly' on the cover. -- Bill Gates cheers Peter Harkess From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 23:23:06 1998 Message-Id: <199806102209.AAA27470@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: Fed up Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:12:07 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1238 Lines: 35 > Van: BillRitman@aol.com > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: Fed up > Datum: Wednesday, June 10, 1998 8:54 > > > If this were the case, then no criminal trial could ever be held - > > > Imagine - threatening letters? Can't be used in evidence because the > > author > > Does this mean that you can't sue people for what they wrote in > > books, since that's copyright? The phrase "don't be daft" comes to > > mind. :) > Of course you can, once they have published the book. > But a private email or letter is not published. Wrong, because if you are sending threatening emails or something similiar than there is no copyright law or agreement that is going to protect you. The same goes for the freedom of speech, you may say everthing, but shouting fire in a crowded theater is not one of them. It all comes to the contents and circumstances. > This email, going to the Sam list, is 'published' because access to the list > is open to anyone who cares to log on. BTW: there is a new member on this list, did you send him a email warning about my shamefull behaviour? ja ne -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 23:46:44 1998 From: PGLOVER43 Message-ID: <19d7c129.357f0961@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:32:00 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Format Covers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 168 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1390 Lines: 25 About three years ago, the company responsible for Star Wars, etc. issued a warning to computer magazines not to use any copyright material belonging to the Star Wars films without permission. This included cartoons, logos, character names,and so forth. I read about this warning in Adventure Probe, and it resulted in people avoiding writing send- ups and parodies of Star Wars material, as legal action was threatened. This seems to mean that it's illegal to do a cartoon of someone like Darth Vader without consent, although minor infringements may be overlooked, perhaps. For example, a one-off cartoon may be ignored, but a series of cartoons about Darth Vader may bring the lawyers running along. I'm sure other companies such as Walt Disney and the Star Trek one would be just as hot on such copyright laws. Now, unless I'm much mistaken, I've seen Format covers that feature cartoons of characters from Star Trek, Star Wars and other films/TV programmes. Is any copyright being infringed by doing this, or perhaps Bob Brenchley has been granted exclusive permission by these companies to publish these items? I don't want to aggravate this copyright argument too much, but if Format can put Wallace and Gromit on their cover, why can't a SAM user put out a cartoon of the SAM character on a website or printed magazine? >From Perplexed and Confused of Birmingham (Phil Glover) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 23:46:45 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:27:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Hard disk boot ROM In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 662 Lines: 18 From: Dan Doore > > When the ROM in the SAM is replaced with the HD BOOT ROM. > > Each time the SAM is turned on or reseted. The SAM will press F9 > > It is also possible to boot directly from floppy by holding down the > > SPACE BAR during power on / reset > > Hmm, should it not check the floppy first as a matter of course and if a > 'missing disk' error occurs then it should boot from the HD? Nar, quicker to scan a hd first, than a floppy, i would have thought, and if you've got a HD, then would you really want to boot to a floppy??? Best going for the most common option as default, as it is. -- Dean Liversidge From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Jun 10 23:46:46 1998 From: Dean Liversidge To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:27:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Hard disk boot ROM In-reply-to: <14AA5D5109@mail1.pl.hanze.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 545 Lines: 19 From: "E.P.R.P. Blink" > I just thougth I let you all now that there now is a boot ROM for use > with B-DOS, hard disk & ATOM Interface. That allowes booting > DOS directly from hard disk. > The HD BOOT ROM will be available soon. > Edwin Blink. Now, what i'd like to see is the Boot Rom and B-Dos incorporated as a supported addon to SimCoupe. Freeware would be nice ;-) Then it would save on cost of HD interface, but give a lot of benefits for developing for Sam on a PC. -- Dean Liversidge From imc Wed Jun 10 23:52:04 1998 Subject: Re: Real Sam Users List In-Reply-To: from Dan Doore at "Jun 10, 98 06:11:49 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:52:04 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 330 Lines: 13 On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:11:49 +0000, Dan Doore said: Mind if we call you Dave? It might otherwise cause some confusion. > Allen Skillman allan.skillman@arm.com ^ ^ Hmmm.... > Luke Trevorrow blackadder@orinocco.demon.co.uk ^^^^^^^^ Was the correct spelling already taken? :-) imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 00:32:17 1998 Message-Id: <199806102315.AAA26587@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:15:00 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: MIDI-Bar (Was: The SAM FPC) In-reply-to: <8025661F.002FE3B1.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 778 Lines: 19 > There is no hex shown (at least, not in this version). There will > be a "big blank bit". Actually, it's a "big blank bit" segmented > into 16 (will be 32) "smaller blank bits". Each corresponding to > a MIDI channel (1 to 16). When a NoteOn message comes in to the > MIDI port, a little coloured line will be drawn indicating which > note it was (and in future, the highest volume note will be shown > as the max volume) in which of the 16 segments. Middle C will be > a little line roughly in the centre, and High C will be a little > bit up, etc. vertical lines? and is the height of the line related to the volume of the note? anyway yeh, so, a set of long thin panes, stacked vertically on top of each other? with maybe space for a name ("channel 1", etc) ok. dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 00:32:18 1998 Message-Id: <199806102322.AAA31293@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:14:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Fed up References: <199806091201.NAA23283@ruby.comlab> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 450 Lines: 14 > So in the same context, does an author of a book, not retain copyright, instead > the copyright is passed to the purchaser of the book ??? No-one mentioned copyright. It is considered *polite* not to publish private emails. I think you're getting fixated. ;) Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 00:32:18 1998 Message-Id: <199806102316.AAA26649@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:16:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Mork In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 448 Lines: 10 > It's a strategy game, similar to the spectrum classic RebelStar. It was > very popular in it's time :) The sequel should have been released, but > it never happened. I think I will upload OW2 to my web page tonight > because its a damn shame that nobody saw it. hi. sounds great. could you maybe email it to me? (i am unable to ftp from nvg's incoming directory - nvg's policies on downloading from its incoming directory come into play) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 00:32:19 1998 Message-Id: <199806102322.AAA31298@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Paul Walker Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:22:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Mork In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 406 Lines: 12 > Ive recently rediscovered the Sam scene through SimCoupe. Any one want a > copy of the never released Ore Warz II in .dsk format? Sure, why not. csuan@dcs.warwick.ac.uk would be preferred to this account, though. :-) Paul -- ---- MicroSoft Windows - where do you want to crash today? ---- FidoNet: 2:254/211.44 2:442/103.13 ---> http://www.craybbs.co.uk/foti <--- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 00:32:29 1998 Message-Id: <199806102324.AAA27062@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:23:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: int to ascii In-reply-to: <8025661F.0058211A.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 458 Lines: 13 > Anyone got any fast Z80 routines to convert bytes/words/longs into ASCII > decimal representation?? for bytes, probably do it best with a lookup table so that table[3A] contains ascii for lowermost decimal digit table[3A+1] contains ascii for next digit (or '0' if a<10) table[3A+2] contains ascii for the topmost digit (or '0' if a<100) this won't scale nicely for words/longs though. i expect either simon or imc have something fancy to hand though. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 00:40:30 1998 Message-Id: <199806102334.AAA27737@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:33:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-reply-to: <8025661F.0038137C.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1233 Lines: 34 > I have a very small ISR which when it gets a Mode 1 interrupt, > it checks for the MIDI In bit of the status port. If it's low, it grabs > the byte from 253 and sticks it into a 256byte cyclic buffer for > the rest of the code to use (if it ain't 0xFE), decode and display > in it's own time... when i dabbled with midi stuff (mainly sending and receiving midi sequenced songs to/from my keyboard's memory using huge sysex messages) i used a crappy loop (no interrupts). however, make sure you're doing something like: ISR: if (midi in status bit asserted) store byte from 253 into buffer . . other stuff - probably dealing with other interrupt bits . from the status port . while (midi in status bit set) loop enable interrupts so that yr isr (on seeing a midi in-interrupt) only exits when the midi-in status interrupt bit is DEASSERTED. that was my original mistake. dunno if this'll apply to your code or what, though. i might have got that wrong, but i could check in my code. that'll take two weeks though (question of 600-odd miles between us at the moment) > (There must be, Tim Humphries' Sequencer seemed to work > alright) and work very nicely it did to. anyone know if there was a release after version 3? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 08:03:56 1998 From: "E.P.R.P. Blink" Organization: Hanzehogeschool Groningen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:05:25 MET Subject: Floppy disk BOOT ROM X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <14F78678A1@mail1.pl.hanze.nl> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 340 Lines: 11 I forget to say that I also have a new new version of my AUTO BOOT ROM. Which boots DOS automatically from floppy. Previous version booted DOS only if the bootsector contained the characters "B","O","O","T"+128. Now bit 5 & 7 off these characters are irrelevant. It also features the SAA clear and DIR function keys. Edwin Blink. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 08:03:56 1998 From: "E.P.R.P. Blink" Organization: Hanzehogeschool Groningen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:10:46 MET Subject: B-DOS update X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <150E640E89@mail1.pl.hanze.nl> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 124 Lines: 7 Any body tried B-DOS yet ? B-DOS had some problems reading the SAMBUS clock. This is fixed in B-DOS 1.4c. Edwin Blink. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 08:12:57 1998 Message-ID: <006101bd9507$5cbde360$f03ca8c0@DavesPC.orctel.internal> From: Dave To: sam-users Subject: Re: Real Sam Users List Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:05:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 402 Lines: 18 > David Zambonini D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk Darn. I thought I unsubbed that address ages ago. It needs to be done, and I can no longer do it. My, but Cardiff University must be getting fed up with the size of one of their mail files by now... just think, almost a year's worth of sam-users.... DMZ --- Song of the day : Plasticity (zero edit) - Front Line Assembly Colour of the day : Yellow From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 08:21:20 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 8:16:44 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 235 Lines: 13 > > Allen Skillman allan.skillman@arm.com > ^ ^ > Hmmm.... D'oh! I've always had a bit of a blind spot with vowels. Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 08:31:41 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 8:27:04 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 521 Lines: 19 > Darn. I thought I unsubbed that address ages ago. > It needs to be done, and I can no longer do it. Send a message to Arnt, and he can zap you off the list. Can't remember what his address is, possibly arntg@nvg.ntnu.no or something - Frode? > My, but Cardiff University must be getting fed up > with the size of one of their mail files by now... > just think, almost a year's worth of sam-users.... Heh heh heh. Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 09:07:39 1998 Message-Id: <199806110805.JAA03974@tweekie.iplbath.com> From: Luke Organization: IPL Information Processing Ltd To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:04:53 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Real Sam Users List In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 648 Lines: 12 Dan, Thanks very much for associating my e-mail address with the work of Luke Falla. Unfortunately I am not the afore mentioned Luke but Luke Ferris (No reason why you should know this). I did think it rather odd once to see my initials spinning wildly on a Fred menu. So, once again, I am not Luke Falla, just a lowly software designer at the company in my e-mail address. Soz. Luke. +------------------------------------------------+ | Name: Luke Ferris E-Mail: lukef@iplbath.com | | Title: Designer Tel: 01225 475 239 | | 01255 429 380 | +------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 09:25:34 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 9:17:03 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 345 Lines: 13 > Thanks very much for associating my e-mail address with the > work of Luke Falla. Unfortunately I am not the afore mentioned > Luke but Luke Ferris (No reason why you should know this) My apologies. I will amend the database with all speed!. Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 09:50:22 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ILGW@C&L NL @ C&L INT @ C&L INT EXTERNAL@OUTBOUND @INTERLIANT From: Stefan Drissen To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Message-ID: <86256620.002FC8E9.00@internet-502.interliant.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:10:37 +0200 Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1125 Lines: 34 To unsubscribe you can also send a message to the list server: unsubscribe BillRitman@aol.com Oops - spot theh typo. ;-) If the unsubscribe name does not match the sender then Arnt checks it (IIRC). Stefan -- **************************************** This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, Coopers & Lybrand disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. **************************************** From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 09:50:23 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256620.00309041.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:52:22 +0100 Subject: Re: MIDI-Bar (Was: The SAM FPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 908 Lines: 24 >> There is no hex shown (at least, not in this version). There will >> be a "big blank bit". Actually, it's a "big blank bit" segmented >> into 16 (will be 32) "smaller blank bits". Each corresponding to >> a MIDI channel (1 to 16). When a NoteOn message comes in to the >> MIDI port, a little coloured line will be drawn indicating which >> note it was (and in future, the highest volume note will be shown >> as the max volume) in which of the 16 segments. Middle C will be >> a little line roughly in the centre, and High C will be a little >> bit up, etc. >vertical lines? and is the height of the line related to the volume >of the note? > >anyway yeh, so, a set of long thin panes, stacked vertically on top >of each other? with maybe space for a name ("channel 1", etc) Something like that... But there's been a slight change of plan... See the other thread about the bit being stick... Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 10:18:11 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256620.003128F3.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:17:29 +0100 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 2170 Lines: 65 Dave Hooper wrote: >when i dabbled with midi stuff (mainly sending and receiving midi >sequenced songs to/from my keyboard's memory using huge sysex >messages) i used a crappy loop (no interrupts). I could do it that way, but there are other things that I want to do with it in future that would require it needing to be properly interrupt driven. >however, make sure you're doing something like: > >ISR: >if (midi in status bit asserted) store byte from 253 into buffer >. >. other stuff - probably dealing with other interrupt bits >. from the status port >. >while (midi in status bit set) loop >enable interrupts > >so that yr isr (on seeing a midi in-interrupt) only exits when the >midi-in status interrupt bit is DEASSERTED. that was my original >mistake. dunno if this'll apply to your code or what, though. > >i might have got that wrong, but i could check in my code. that'll >take two weeks though (question of 600-odd miles between us at the >moment) That sounds right. I tried that last night. Not only was there a REALLY noticable delay when the rest of my code produced a little dot but the problem STILL happened! I just gave up and watched the Norway v Morroco match. My only conclusion is that the MIDI hardware in the SAM is complete shite... (is it possible that it could generate TWO interrupts when it should be just the one? after all, the NMI wasn't debounced thus creating two sometimes...) (That may explain why there is a distinct lack of MIDI software for the SAM. And there was me thinking that it was just because nobody else knew much about MIDI.) So. there's been a slight change of plan. I'm going to build my own MIDI interface following all the MIDI rules (including the use of a optoisolator) based around a real UART instead of (presumably) a simple shift-register inside the ASIC... The only trouble is that no-one else will be able to use my code unless they build the exact same interface... :( >> (There must be, Tim Humphries' Sequencer seemed to work >> alright) > >and work very nicely it did to. >anyone know if there was a release after version 3? I've got version 3. I've never heard of a version 4. Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 10:18:13 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256620.00331BEF.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:20:56 +0100 Subject: Re: B-DOS update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 262 Lines: 11 >Any body tried B-DOS yet ? Yep.. I like it... The DIR layout is much nicer for a start... I'm still using 1.2 that was free with Blitz. It doesn't seem very compatible with Comet though. (loading using MDAT or INC seemed to give strange results). Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 10:41:17 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256620.0034E75A.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:41:21 +0100 Subject: Re: int to ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 558 Lines: 26 >> Anyone got any fast Z80 routines to convert bytes/words/longs into ASCII >> decimal representation?? > >for bytes, probably do it best with a lookup table > >so that >table[3A] contains ascii for lowermost decimal digit >table[3A+1] contains ascii for next digit (or '0' if a<10) >table[3A+2] contains ascii for the topmost digit (or '0' if a<100) Cheers.. >this won't scale nicely for words/longs though. *grins* I guess not... >i expect either simon or imc have something fancy to hand though. Please tell Mr. Collier and Mr. Cooke! :) Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 10:55:11 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:50:34 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Hard disk boot ROM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 537 Lines: 19 > Nar, quicker to scan a hd first, than a floppy, i would have > thought, and if you've got a HD, then would you really want > to boot to a floppy??? Yes, if you wanted to play Lemmings, POP or other games with modified formats or copy protection. I suppose the boot sequence is not as vital as it is on a PC, since you can space-reset the Sam, but what if you wanted to do the 256k-shift-reset trick *and* boot from floppy? Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 11:02:25 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256620.003742BA.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:04:06 +0100 Subject: RE: Hard disk boot ROM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 230 Lines: 11 >I suppose the boot sequence is not as vital as it is on a PC, since you >can space-reset the Sam, but what if you wanted to do the >256k-shift-reset trick *and* boot from floppy? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the what???? Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 11:13:24 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:08:00 +0000 To: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk, sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: Hard disk boot ROM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 352 Lines: 15 > >256k-shift-reset trick *and* boot from floppy? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > the what???? If you reset your 512k Sam whilst holding down shift, it will boot as a 256k Sam. Handy for ancient BASIC programs that still address the screen directly. Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 11:13:26 1998 Message-Id: <199806111010.MAA02519@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: Hard disk boot ROM Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 12:13:07 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 814 Lines: 27 ---------- > Van: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: RE: Hard disk boot ROM > Datum: Thursday, June 11, 1998 12:04 > > > >I suppose the boot sequence is not as vital as it is on a PC, since you > >can space-reset the Sam, but what if you wanted to do the > >256k-shift-reset trick *and* boot from floppy? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > the what???? Hold down shift and press the reset, This will perform a lobotomy on your Sam by reducing its memory from 512 to 256k. Reset again without shift and things are restored to normality. But indeed how to do that in combination with a space-boot, mmmmh like the sound of that "Space-boot" :) -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 11:21:32 1998 Message-ID: From: William McGugan To: "'sam-users@nvg.unit.no'" Subject: OW2 Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:30:06 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 248 Lines: 8 Ore Warz 2 will be available from as soon as Netcom get thier act together. Please feel free to copy it, stick it on your own webpages etc. If anyone designs their own levels, I'd love to see them! Will. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 11:21:32 1998 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <80256620.003742BA.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:16:34 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: RE: Hard disk boot ROM X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1206 Lines: 31 At 11:04 am +0100 11/6/98, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk wrote: >>I suppose the boot sequence is not as vital as it is on a PC, since you >>can space-reset the Sam, but what if you wanted to do the >>256k-shift-reset trick *and* boot from floppy? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > >the what???? > >Justin. If you have a 512K Sam, and you hold down the SHIFT key when you reboot, the ROM pretends that you've only got 256K of memory. It's not very useful to most people but I happen to use it nearly all the time when I'm programming, because it keeps BASIC's screen, the DOS, Comet and my sourcefiles nice and neat in the first half of memory; and my code can quite happily scribble over the top 256K without risking overwriting anything. Andrew -- +----------------+-----------------------------+----------------+ | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense | | 1B NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | to a fool | +----------------+-----------------------------+ and he calls | | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | you foolish | | email support@sel.cam.ac.uk | -- Euripides | +----------------------------------------------+----------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 12:00:21 1998 Message-ID: From: William McGugan To: "'sam-users@nvg.unit.no'" Subject: Long lost children Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:09:10 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 528 Lines: 14 Sam people, I spent many a happy hour coding on my Sam Coupe. It started me along the path to a career as a games programmer. But alas, my beloved blue footed pal and most of my disks were stolen, never to be seen again. If there is anyone out there with a collection of old Fred, Outlet and Sam Supplement disks I would be most appreciative if you could archive my creations and return my babies to me ( as .dsk files ). You would earn my eternal gratitude and I would, of course, release them to the public domain. Will. From imc Thu Jun 11 12:13:08 1998 Subject: Re: Hard disk boot ROM In-Reply-To: <199806111010.MAA02519@mailserv.caiw.nl> from Robert van der Veeke at "Jun 11, 98 12:13:07 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 12:13:08 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 222 Lines: 7 On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 12:13:07 +0200, Robert van der Veeke said: > But indeed how to do that in combination with a space-boot, mmmmh like the > sound of that "Space-boot" :) Couldn't you just have a space-shift-boot? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 12:24:07 1998 From: "E.P.R.P. Blink" Organization: Hanzehogeschool Groningen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 13:19:04 MET Subject: Re: Hard disk boot ROM X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <2932D12434@mail1.pl.hanze.nl> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 476 Lines: 19 Gavin Smith asked: > So is all tape crap stripped out of the ROM? No its all still there and unmodified. > Yummy, any ideas on price? Not yet. Justin asked: >I suppose the boot sequence is not as vital as it is on a PC, since >you can space-reset the Sam, but what if you wanted to do the >256k-shift-reset trick *and* boot from floppy? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The shift trick is still possible. You can hold down SHIFT and SPACE. for a 256K SAM and boot from floppy. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 13:04:02 1998 From: "E.P.R.P. Blink" Organization: Hanzehogeschool Groningen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 13:51:44 MET Subject: Re: B-DOS update X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <29BE497B02@mail1.pl.hanze.nl> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 367 Lines: 15 Justin wrote: > Yep.. I like it... The DIR layout is much nicer for a start... Thanks > I'm still using 1.2 that was free with Blitz. It doesn't seem very > compatible with Comet though. (loading using MDAT or INC seemed to > give strange results). Version 1.2 had some problems with the read sector hookcode. But thats fixed in later versions. Edwin blink. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 14:10:51 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256620.00476580.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 14:03:29 +0100 Subject: Re: B-DOS update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 669 Lines: 17 >> I'm still using 1.2 that was free with Blitz. It doesn't seem very >> compatible with Comet though. (loading using MDAT or INC seemed to >> give strange results). > >Version 1.2 had some problems with the read sector hookcode. But thats >fixed in later versions. What's B-DOS like with "open file" and "read byte" type hook codes? I've heard that SAMDOS is rather dubious with them at the best of times. Does B-DOS suffer the same problems? How do I get the latest version of B-DOS? (And the hook code reference? Blitz only gave the BASIC commands, IIRC). The boot up screen on 1.2 says B-DOS is shareware... Where do I get the real version??? How much? Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 15:47:40 1998 From: "E.P.R.P. Blink" Organization: Hanzehogeschool Groningen To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:34:08 MET Subject: Re: B-DOS update X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <2C72D33B64@mail1.pl.hanze.nl> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1111 Lines: 29 > What's B-DOS like with "open file" and "read byte" type hook codes? > I've heard that SAMDOS is rather dubious with them at the best of times. > Does B-DOS suffer the same problems? "Open file" hook code is the same. You can only open a single file at a time. Or did I miss anything ??? 'read byte" hookcode. Reads a byte to the D register because the A register isn't available. > How do I get the latest version of B-DOS? (And the hook code reference? > Blitz only gave the BASIC commands, IIRC). The boot up screen on 1.2 > says B-DOS is shareware... Where do I get the real version??? How much? Latest version is available thru BLITZ. (NVG Simon ??). B-DOS comes with a info text which includes info about hooks. (but not yet with version 1.2) I made a mistake by telling it SHAREWARE. Because almost everybody thinks its a incomplete version. To get rid off the confusion. B-DOS is totally FREE !!! And there aro no funny restrictions what so ever.Copy it at will. Only for comercial uses you will need my permission. If anyone find a possible bug then please let me know. Edwin Blink From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 16:08:03 1998 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:54:22 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: RE: Hard disk boot ROM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 101" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 494 Lines: 17 > Justin asked: > > > >I suppose the boot sequence is not as vital as it is on a PC, since > >you can space-reset the Sam, but what if you wanted to do the > >256k-shift-reset trick *and* boot from floppy? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > The shift trick is still possible. You can hold down SHIFT and SPACE. > for a 256K SAM and boot from floppy. Actually that was me, but thankyou for the answer! Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From imc Thu Jun 11 17:48:37 1998 Subject: Re: int to ascii In-Reply-To: <80256620.0034E75A.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at "Jun 11, 98 10:41:21 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:48:37 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 1961 Lines: 87 > >> Anyone got any fast Z80 routines to convert bytes/words/longs into ASCII > >> decimal representation?? > >for bytes, probably do it best with a lookup table > >this won't scale nicely for words/longs though. > >i expect either simon or imc have something fancy to hand though. > Please tell Mr. Collier and Mr. Cooke! :) I just have the usual non-fast one. LD E,0 LD BC,-10000 CALL pdigit LD BC,-1000 CALL pdigit LD BC,-100 CALL pdigit LD BC,-10 CALL pdigit LD A,L pd1: LD E,"0" ADD E RST 16 ; or whatever RET pdigit: XOR A pdlp: ADD HL,BC INC A JR C,pdlp SBC HL,BC DEC A JR NZ,pd1 ADD E RET Z RST 16 ; or whateve RET There are some things for which you only use table lookups if you are desperate. If you are then how about BCD? table 1 (low byte): 0000H 0001H 0002H ... 0254H 0255H table 2 (high byte): 000000H 000256H 000512H ... 065535H Now add together table1[L] and table2[H]. Doesn't look as easy as it first seemed. How about... XOR A LD D,A LD C,A # for i=0 to 8 RL L RL H ADC A,A # if i>2 DAA # endif # if i>5 RL D # endif # next i # for i=9 to 15 # if i>9 LD A,E # endif RL L RL H ADC A,A DAA LD E,A LD A,D ADC A,A DAA LD D,A # if i>12 RL C # endif # next i RET Result is in binary coded decimal in CDE. Good heavens, I've just tested that and it worked first time. :-) The routine ended up being 150 bytes long. I think it works out at 108 instructions which is certainly better than the worst case of the above, but perhaps no better than the average case. Oh well... imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 17:59:01 1998 Message-Id: <199806111645.RAA14093@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:44:34 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-reply-to: <80256620.003128F3.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1615 Lines: 38 > >when i dabbled with midi stuff (mainly sending and receiving midi > >sequenced songs to/from my keyboard's memory using huge sysex > >messages) i used a crappy loop (no interrupts). > > I could do it that way, but there are other things that I want to > do with it in future that would require it needing to be properly > interrupt driven. oh no, i didn't mean that you *should* use a loop! > My only conclusion is that the MIDI hardware in the SAM is > complete shite... (is it possible that it could generate TWO > interrupts when it should be just the one? after all, the NMI > wasn't debounced thus creating two sometimes...) mine seemed ok... but i'll have a go writing something interrupt-driven and see how far i get. MODE 1 interrupts you say? I'll probably use MODE 2 as i'm more comfortable with them. I'm assuming that, if it seems screwed up when using im1 it'd also be shagged under im2. > So. there's been a slight change of plan. I'm going to build my > own MIDI interface following all the MIDI rules (including the use > of a optoisolator) based around a real UART instead of (presumably) > a simple shift-register inside the ASIC... > The only trouble is that no-one else will be able to use my code > unless they build the exact same interface... :( noooooo :( well, ok then. let us know how it goes. but, as you said yourself, what if you build the interface, and then find out it was a LD A,(HL) instead of a LD (HL), A all along ...? ;) (although bad luck such as this seems only to affect me, so i expect your code is aok and the sams midi hardware is, after all, crap) dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 17:59:02 1998 Message-Id: <199806111649.RAA14608@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:48:44 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Hard disk boot ROM In-reply-to: <2932D12434@mail1.pl.hanze.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 203 Lines: 8 > > So is all tape crap stripped out of the ROM? > > No its all still there and unmodified. hey! i use all that tape 'crap' to convert real speccy tapes into the .TAP format used by emulators! dave From imc Thu Jun 11 18:03:54 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <199806111645.RAA14093@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from Dave Hooper at "Jun 11, 98 05:44:34 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:03:54 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 357 Lines: 9 On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:44:34 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > MODE 1 interrupts you say? I'll probably use MODE 2 as i'm more > comfortable with them. I'm assuming that, if it seems screwed up when > using im1 it'd also be shagged under im2. Mode 2 is slightly silly on the Sam because you can't guarantee the vector table will be paged in all the time. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 18:20:39 1998 Message-Id: <199806111712.SAA17508@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Dave Hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:12:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-reply-to: <199806111703.SAA08990@ruby.comlab> References: <199806111645.RAA14093@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from Dave Hooper at "Jun 11, 98 05:44:34 pm" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 139 Lines: 4 > Mode 2 is slightly silly on the Sam because you can't guarantee the > vector table will be paged in all the time. when wouldn't it be? From imc Thu Jun 11 18:23:18 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <199806111712.SAA17508@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from Dave Hooper at "Jun 11, 98 06:12:45 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:23:18 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 438 Lines: 12 On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:12:45 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > > Mode 2 is slightly silly on the Sam because you can't guarantee the > > vector table will be paged in all the time. > when wouldn't it be? Depends what you are doing. I suppose it would be OK if you never use the Sam ROM (in which case why not page it out and use mode 1 - save 257 bytes). As soon as you let the ROM in it could start paging things all over the place. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 18:41:23 1998 Message-Id: <199806111730.SAA19933@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: dave hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:29:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-reply-to: <199806111723.SAA09101@ruby.comlab> References: <199806111712.SAA17508@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from Dave Hooper at "Jun 11, 98 06:12:45 pm" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 441 Lines: 9 > Depends what you are doing. I suppose it would be OK if you never use > the Sam ROM (in which case why not page it out and use mode 1 - save 257 > bytes). As soon as you let the ROM in it could start paging things all > over the place. fair enough. there's not much to be gained from using mode 2 over mode 1 if you're not using the rom! but it'll still be safe to page out the rom, put a vector table in section B, and use im2? dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 19:12:58 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256620.00604A7B.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:07:52 +0100 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1742 Lines: 44 >MODE 1 interrupts you say? I'll probably use MODE 2 as i'm more >comfortable with them. I'm assuming that, if it seems screwed up when >using im1 it'd also be shagged under im2. Yep. I prefer using im1. im2 seems too much both at setting the I register and stuff to put the address where you want it. I can never remember how you set the thing properly anyway. Besides, I've paged out the ROM so I don't need to specifcally point the interrupt to somewhere else... What's the difference between im0 and im1 anyway??? >> So. there's been a slight change of plan. I'm going to build my >> own MIDI interface following all the MIDI rules (including the use >> of a optoisolator) based around a real UART instead of (presumably) >> a simple shift-register inside the ASIC... >> The only trouble is that no-one else will be able to use my code >> unless they build the exact same interface... :( > >noooooo :( >well, ok then. let us know how it goes. I know. It's not something I really wanted to do: writing code that no-one else could use.. :( I could send off the design to FormatPub and get bob to release it as an add-on. (Or will he stress that there is nothing wrong with the SAM? Or maybe you guys will get a box in 2 years time in the same package as the clock.. :) ) >but, as you said yourself, what if you build the interface, and then >find out it was a LD A,(HL) instead of a LD (HL), A all along ...? ;) >(although bad luck such as this seems only to affect me, so i expect >your code is aok and the sams midi hardware is, after all, crap) I've checked the ISR very carefully... :) Although, I did miss a POP HL in the main code that caused a lot of problems somewhere else (messing up the buffer, aswell...) :) Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 19:24:12 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:09:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: B-DOS update In-reply-to: <80256620.00331BEF.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Message-Id: <19980611181630Z50061-269+90@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 366 Lines: 15 > From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk > >Any body tried B-DOS yet ? > > Yep.. I like it... The DIR layout is much nicer for a start... > > I'm still using 1.2 that was free with Blitz. It doesn't seem very > compatible with Comet though. (loading using MDAT or INC seemed to > give strange results). Version 1.4 with the latest issue :) > Justin. David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 19:24:13 1998 Message-Id: <199806111816.TAA25695@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: dave hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:15:40 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-reply-to: <80256620.00604A7B.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 437 Lines: 11 > What's the difference between im0 and im1 anyway??? im1 calls the isr at 38 hex or something. imo halts the cpu at the end of the currently executing instruction, reads the data byte currently on the IO bus (!!), and executes it as an instruction, then resumes processing. this would usually require external hardware to put a RST xx instruction on the data bus at the same time as generating the interrupt. quite a difference! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 20:26:47 1998 From: BrenchleyR Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:12:06 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Format Covers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 5761 Lines: 110 In a message dated 10/06/98 22:49:33, you write: Just thought this one needed a quick answer. > About three years ago, the company responsible for Star Wars, etc. issued a > warning to computer magazines not to use any copyright material belonging to > the Star Wars films without permission. This included cartoons, logos, > character names, and so forth. Correct, although the warning was not just to computer magazines. > > This seems to mean that it's illegal to do a cartoon of someone like Darth > Vader without consent, although minor infringements may be overlooked, > perhaps. For example, a one-off cartoon may be ignored, but a series of > cartoons about Darth Vader may bring the lawyers running along. I'm sure > other > companies such as Walt Disney and the Star Trek one would be just as hot on > such copyright laws. The situation is a little blurred. This is because the entertainment industry is trying to set new standards that go above the old ones. Let us take Darth Vader as the example. If a magazine reproduced a photo taken from the film or from publicity photos released by Lucus Films then that would be a breach of copyright and always has been. Also, if a company wanted to use an image of Darth Vader to help _sell_ its products then the company would have to come to an arrangement and pay a fee - so for example it I wanted to run adverts in the general press promoting INDUG and FORMAT and using an image that 'looked like' Darth Vader, then I would need to get legal permission and pay a fee to do it. In a similar way, if a magazine wanted to run a regular cartoon featuring a cartoon of Darth Vader permission would be needed. By the way, if Darth Vader had been a cartoon character in the first place, then doing a cartoon of a cartoon would be a no-no. However, what they now seek to do, and by the way are failing at the moment, is to tighten things even further. It has always been acceptable to use an image that is not a photo, and is not a direct copy of or derived from a photo - provided it was not in advertising or promotion. In the USA people like Lucus Films are now trying to stop people doing even that, but are failing at the moment because they have gone too far. They are trying as well to stop 'parody' and this goes against the US constitutional right to free speech. > > Now, unless I'm much mistaken, I've seen Format covers that feature cartoons > of characters from Star Trek, Star Wars and other films/TV programmes. Is > any > copyright being infringed by doing this, or perhaps Bob Brenchley has been > granted exclusive permission by these companies to publish these items? Under current UK law, no rights have been infringed, for the following reasons. 1) The covers are not used to advertise or 'sell' the magazine. 2) The pictures are original artwork that do not represent or attempt to represent and copyright image. 3) Like many things, changes cannot be retrospective - I would give an example here of Pac-Man but it would take to long (one day I will write it up for FORMAT) but in brief the owners of Pac- Man lost in 1984 when they tried to stop several Spectrum games based on the original. > > I don't want to aggravate this copyright argument too much, but if Format > can > put Wallace and Gromit on their cover, why can't a SAM user put out a > cartoon > of the SAM character on a website or printed magazine? Well. First the wonderful Wallace and Gromit, the company owning the copyright on them is Bristol based so they are only just down the road. We have used cartoons of them on the cover a couple of times, and on each occasion we have sent a copy of the artwork to them before, and sent two copies of the magazine to them on publication. From the conversation I had with one of their people they were happy, provided of course that we didn't do it too often. Now to the SAM image. The SAM Robot starts life as a cartoon, it was the joint copyright property of Robin Evans and Miles Gordon Technology (and now me). Robin retains most of the rights but MGT were allowed to use the SAM character for anything to do with SAM sales, advertising, games and a few other things. Robin had hoped at one point to turn the SAM Robot into a real cartoon for TV. Right. To images. The SAM logo is of course copyright, and it would be difficult to redraw it in anyway that did not breach copyright. However, as I said, when it is not being abused I'm quite happy to see it used. Until recently I did not think it necessary to keep an eye on things because I though it would only be used in a way that was good for SAM, sadly my trust in that was misplaced. Let me say again that I will not in the future object to its use provided that: a) I'm told in advance where it will appear, and b) that it is understood that I will withdraw permission if in my opinion it is being used contrary to the good image of SAM and the companies or persons involved with SAM. Photos and drawings of SAM which are original are of course perfectly acceptable and I can have no control over them. Use of any image that is copyright, and on Andrew's pages there was a scanned image from a poster, will be acceptable under the same rules as I give for the logo and provided that a small notice (maybe in very small print at the bottom of the page) saying that the image is copyright is included. If in doubt, ask, I promise not to withhold permission without good reason and if I was to then the reason would be given so that people would have the chance to change things. > > From Perplexed and Confused of Birmingham > (Phil Glover) I hope that you are no longer perplexed Phil. If you have any more questions please feel free to ring me at any time. -- Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 20:57:05 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Format Covers Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:38:48 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bd9570$8dba1420$ad63accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2020 Lines: 50 > Now to the SAM image. The SAM Robot starts life as a cartoon, it > was the joint > copyright property of Robin Evans and Miles Gordon Technology > (and now me). Prove it. And, pray tell, how come you own it? I thought you weren't West Coast Computers? > Robin retains most of the rights but MGT were allowed to use the > SAM character > for anything to do with SAM sales, advertising, games and a few > other things. > Robin had hoped at one point to turn the SAM Robot into a real > cartoon for TV. > > Right. To images. The SAM logo is of course copyright, and it would be > difficult to redraw it in anyway that did not breach copyright. > However, as I > said, when it is not being abused I'm quite happy to see it used. Until > recently I did not think it necessary to keep an eye on things because I > though it would only be used in a way that was good for SAM, > sadly my trust in > that was misplaced. Let me say again that I will not in the > future object to > its use provided that: a) I'm told in advance where it will appear, and b) > that it is understood that I will withdraw permission if in my > opinion it is > being used contrary to the good image of SAM and the companies or persons > involved with SAM. Please show your proof of ownership. > Photos and drawings of SAM which are original are of course perfectly > acceptable and I can have no control over them. Use of any image that is > copyright, and on Andrew's pages there was a scanned image from a > poster, will > be acceptable under the same rules as I give for the logo and > provided that a > small notice (maybe in very small print at the bottom of the > page) saying that > the image is copyright is included. Bob, the SAM logo on Andrew's page is *original*. I know. I drew it. But, unless you are able to prove that ownership of the copyright on the logo was legally transferred to you, you're going to have a hard time stopping people from using it. Even if it is contrary to what you believe is the good of the SAM. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 21:31:37 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:14:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bd9575$80195ce0$ad63accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <199806111730.SAA19933@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 2644 Lines: 99 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no [mailto:owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no]On > Behalf Of dave hooper > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 2:29 PM > To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? > > > > Depends what you are doing. I suppose it would be OK if you never use > > the Sam ROM (in which case why not page it out and use mode 1 - save 257 > > bytes). As soon as you let the ROM in it could start paging things all > > over the place. > > fair enough. there's not much to be gained from using mode 2 > over mode 1 if you're not using the rom! but it'll still be safe to > page out the rom, put a vector table in section B, and use im2? > dave There's a few T-states to be gained from using IM1 instead of IM2. Namely because it doesn't have to look up the vector table. BTW: You may want to rewrite your MIDI routine somewhat like this, Justin: Also, be warned: Changing the contents of the VMPR during MIDI transmission could cause data-corruption problems. ORG &0038 PUSH AF IN A,(INTFLAG) ; 249 BIT 2,A CALL Z,MIDIIN BIT 4,A CALL Z,MIDIOUT BIT 3,A CALL Z,FRAMEINT POP AF EI RET ; Run frame handler asynchronously; if you're getting a ; lot of events, you want to be able to ensure that you ; receive all of them. So, enabling interrupts once ; the FRAMEINT has been called solves this particular ; problem. The check at the start of FRAMEINT ; ensures that FRAMEINT calls don't get nested. This ; means that in particularly busy periods, the FRAMEINT ; routine may actually last longer than one frame, so ; try not to put too much work in here -- simple updates ; to counters / etc only! ;(TERMITE runs this way too, and it keeps up at 38400 ;baud quite happily, however it *does* use the FIFO) FRAMEINT: LD A,0 OR A RET Z ; return if frame instance already running CPL LD (FRAMEINT+1),A EI ... Frame handler ... DI ; remove this is you want to chance it XOR A LD (FRAMEINT+1),A ; clear instance flag POP AF EI ; remove this if you have chanced it RET MIDIIN: IN A,(MIDIIN) PUSH HL ... put the data in the queue or wherever ... POP HL POP AF EI RET MIDIOUT: LD A,0 OUT (MIDIOUT),A PUSH HL ... get data from the queue into A ... LD (MIDIOUT+1),A POP HL EI RET ; note: the MIDIOUT routine needs a kicker on it to set ; it off if the MIDI queue has been empty at any point, ; but you may just want to use the MIDIOUT routine to ; reset a flag when the MIDIOUT queue is clear, and then ; use that as a test for when you can output more data ; to the system. Simon (ps. not tested it. May work. May not. Should though, with luck ;)) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 21:36:41 1998 From: PGLOVER43 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:29:00 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Format Covers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 168 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 792 Lines: 16 Reading Bob Brenchley's explanation of copyright regarding Format covers, I must admit that his comments make a lot of sense. Copyright seems to be a legal minefield and I'm not au fait with the niceties of the law regarding them, so I'll let others discuss the matter, if they wish. I also think I'll keep out of the West Coast Computers discussion, as it seems to have been going on for months without reaching a conclusion that suits everyone. I'm glad that Bob replied at length to my e-mail concerning Format covers, and I hope others will read it carefully before passing opinion on it. There seems to be a bit too much mail concerning who-said-what/who-meant-what where more careful reading of e-mails may result in more balanced views, and less of a slanging match. - Phil Glover From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 21:42:00 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:32:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000601bd9578$03c38000$ad63accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <000401bd9575$80195ce0$ad63accf@default> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 103 Lines: 5 Ermm... oh yeah... If it doesn't work for you, Justin, try replacing the CALL Z's with JP Z's. SImon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jun 11 22:24:36 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Format Covers Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:12:44 GMT Message-ID: <35824587.6382591@mail.enterprise.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 838 Lines: 25 On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:29:00 EDT, wrote: Phil, >I'm glad that Bob replied at length to my e-mail concerning Format covers, and >I hope others will read it carefully before passing opinion on it. There >seems to be a bit too much mail concerning who-said-what/who-meant-what where >more careful reading of e-mails may result in more balanced views, and less of >a slanging match. With due respect to Bob's polite answer to your question (i.e. he didn't call you stupid or put you in his kill file), I think that his action on Andrew's page was vindictive and uncalled for. This is probably the first time I've seen Bob being reasonable with an inquiry like this on the list. My god.. is this a new Bob!? :) I doubt it though. :( Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 00:10:11 1998 Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 22:07:12 GMT Message-ID: <1099_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> From: James@lhutz.demon.co.uk (James R Curry) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no X-Mailer: OASIS Post Box (Atari) v1.31E Subject: RE: Hard disk boot ROM X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 838 Lines: 33 OASIS_E-Mail: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk wrote:- > >>I suppose the boot sequence is not as vital as it is on a PC, since you >>can space-reset the Sam, but what if you wanted to do the >>256k-shift-reset trick *and* boot from floppy? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > >the what???? If you hold down SHIFT when you reset your sam, it goes into 256K mode. Hmm, I'm writing this at the end of the day, without reading the rest of the days postings first. What are the bets this has been answered 10 times already? __ James R Curry - James@lhutz.demon.co.uk "You're missing the point! The individual doesn't matter. It was a team effort, and I was the one who came up with the whole team idea...me!" - Homer Simpson, The Simpsons. Please insert meaningless promise about The Official James R Curry web page here... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 02:50:19 1998 From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users Subject: RE: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:40:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000901bd95a3$0e473f00$ad63accf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <199806111723.SAA09101@ruby.comlab> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 608 Lines: 19 > On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:12:45 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > > > Mode 2 is slightly silly on the Sam because you can't guarantee the > > > vector table will be paged in all the time. > > > when wouldn't it be? > > Depends what you are doing. I suppose it would be OK if you never use > the Sam ROM (in which case why not page it out and use mode 1 - save 257 > bytes). As soon as you let the ROM in it could start paging things all > over the place. > > imc Not only that, but it really grates that mode 2 wasn't used for SAM peripherals and interrupts. Just think of the increase in efficiency! :( Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 08:57:37 1998 Message-Id: <199806120753.JAA08741@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: Sam users Subject: SD or not to SD Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:55:40 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 843 Lines: 18 Just a a few questions about the SD interface, this is just something i want to know, because I myself had only problems with the bloody thing and I never got it working properly. And over at CSS (yes Bill I am taking another thread from there to this list) Samboss is claiming that it is working wonderfully, but hearing that from only one person is not enough for me, especially because a lot of SD-interfaces have been sold (or should I doubt that to?). 1: Who is actually still using the SD-harddisk interface, 2: who have had one, and 3: who is thinking of switching to the ATOM when it comes out. My answers are :No, yes and certainly will do so (after having seen the prototype work with B-dos). -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 09:55:48 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256621.00311CB8.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:57:24 +0100 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 503 Lines: 16 >> What's the difference between im0 and im1 anyway??? > >im1 calls the isr at 38 hex or something. > >imo halts the cpu at the end of the currently executing instruction, >reads the data byte currently on the IO bus (!!), and executes it as >an instruction, then resumes processing. this would usually require >external hardware to put a RST xx instruction on the data bus at the >same time as generating the interrupt. > >quite a difference! I think I'll stick to IM1... Much simpler... :) Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 10:10:33 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256621.00317497.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:09:32 +0100 Subject: RE: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 721 Lines: 24 Simon wrote: >BTW: You may want to rewrite your MIDI routine somewhat like this, Justin: > >Also, be warned: Changing the contents of the VMPR during MIDI transmission >could cause data-corruption problems. Cheer, Simon! I'll try that. (Although, apart from the frame and midi out bits, it's almost exactly the same as the one I wrote originally) Small question: Why has everyone who's given me a ISR rotine on this list ended the thing with RET instead of RETI? I thought RETI meant "Return from interrupt" and RETN meant "Return from NMI"... And cheers for the advice on the VMPR. My code doesn't do that yet, but I'll keep it in mind for later if I decide I want to do strange things with the screen... Justin. From imc Fri Jun 12 10:52:54 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <80256621.00317497.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at "Jun 12, 98 10:09:32 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:52:54 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 873 Lines: 22 On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:09:32 +0100, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk said: > Simon wrote: > >Also, be warned: Changing the contents of the VMPR during MIDI transmission > >could cause data-corruption problems. Why? > Small question: Why has everyone who's given me a ISR rotine on this list > ended the thing with RET instead of RETI? RET and RETI are exactly the same thing. So why does RETI exist, I hear you ask. If your hardware is clever enough to do prioritised chained interrupts then it watches the data bus for the RETI opcodes going by and thereby knows that the interrupt service routine has finished. That way you can use RET inside the routine without confusing the hardware and use RETI when the thing has really finished. RETN is of course not quite the same thing because it restores the interrupt setting to what it was when the routine was entered. imc From imc Fri Jun 12 10:59:51 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <000401bd9575$80195ce0$ad63accf@default> from Simon Cooke at "Jun 11, 98 04:14:12 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:59:51 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 674 Lines: 39 On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:14:12 -0400, Simon Cooke said: > PUSH AF > IN A,(INTFLAG) ; 249 > BIT 2,A > CALL Z,MIDIIN > BIT 4,A > CALL Z,MIDIOUT > BIT 3,A > CALL Z,FRAMEINT > POP AF > EI > RET If you are using CALL here, this of course means that MIDIIN and MIDIOUT must preserve the contents of the A register. > MIDIIN: > IN A,(MIDIIN) > PUSH HL > ... put the data in the queue or wherever ... > POP HL > POP AF > EI > RET Oops, there is a stack balance problem here. :-) > MIDIOUT: > LD A,0 > OUT (MIDIOUT),A Error - double use of variable MIDIOUT. > Simon > (ps. not tested it. May work. May not. Should though, with luck ;)) Optimistic. :-) imc From imc Fri Jun 12 11:00:53 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <199806111816.TAA25695@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from dave hooper at "Jun 11, 98 07:15:40 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:00:53 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 364 Lines: 12 On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:15:40 +0000, dave hooper said: > im1 calls the isr at 38 hex or something. > imo halts the cpu at the end of the currently executing instruction, > reads the data byte currently on the IO bus (!!), and executes it as > an instruction > quite a difference! But not that much of a difference if the byte is always 255 (RST 56). :-) imc From imc Fri Jun 12 11:01:32 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <199806111730.SAA19933@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from dave hooper at "Jun 11, 98 06:29:01 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:01:32 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 290 Lines: 8 On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:29:01 +0000, dave hooper said: > fair enough. there's not much to be gained from using mode 2 > over mode 1 if you're not using the rom! but it'll still be safe to > page out the rom, put a vector table in section B, and use im2? If you must, I suppose. :-) imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 11:07:14 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256621.00377E29.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:08:53 +0100 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 941 Lines: 34 >> >Also, be warned: Changing the contents of the VMPR during MIDI transmission >> >could cause data-corruption problems. > >Why? Because one of the bits is the bit being sent out of midi out (that the shift register is sending at the time) >> Small question: Why has everyone who's given me a ISR rotine on this list >> ended the thing with RET instead of RETI? > >RET and RETI are exactly the same thing. So why does RETI exist, I hear you >ask. If your hardware is clever enough to do prioritised chained interrupts >then it watches the data bus for the RETI opcodes going by and thereby knows >that the interrupt service routine has finished. That way you can use RET >inside the routine without confusing the hardware and use RETI when the >thing has really finished. > >RETN is of course not quite the same thing because it restores the interrupt >setting to what it was when the routine was entered. Oh! I see... :) Justin. From imc Fri Jun 12 11:09:56 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <80256620.003128F3.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at "Jun 11, 98 10:17:29 am" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:09:56 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 952 Lines: 30 On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:17:29 +0100, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk said: > So. there's been a slight change of plan. I'm going to build my > own MIDI interface following all the MIDI rules (including the use > of a optoisolator) based around a real UART instead of (presumably) > a simple shift-register inside the ASIC... Don't do it! I had a play last night (that was the second time yesterday I typed some code into a spectrum emulator) and as far as I could tell the thing worked. The only thing is... apparently the interrupt is generated before the MIDI byte is available. The routine which worked was along the following lines. 0038 push af in a,(249) bit 2,a jr z,min ; I didn't bother with other kinds of interrupt pop af ei ret min in a,(249) and 4 jr z,min in a,(253) ; here the code to store the byte pop af ei ret imc From imc Fri Jun 12 11:16:41 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <000901bd95a3$0e473f00$ad63accf@default> from Simon Cooke at "Jun 11, 98 09:40:18 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:16:41 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 602 Lines: 12 On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:40:18 -0400, Simon Cooke said: > Not only that, but it really grates that mode 2 wasn't used for SAM > peripherals and interrupts. Just think of the increase in efficiency! Absolutely. That would be marvelous. You'd only need a 10-byte (I forget how many kinds of interrupt the Sam has but you certainly don't need to waste 257 bytes) table somewhere in the system variables area, then if you wanted to hijack an interrupt you could change the _real_ vector instead of just something the ROM checks. And you wouldn't have to bother handling interrupts you didn't want. imc From imc Fri Jun 12 11:29:51 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <8025661F.00471603.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at "Jun 10, 98 02:28:18 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:29:51 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 713 Lines: 19 Incidentally, in my program where block-receives and block-sends are handled in a loop instead of being interrupt driven, they are done like this: putbyte: wait until in(248)&2 = 0 then output to port 253 getblock: wait until in(249)&4=0; wait until in(249)&4<>0; get byte from port 253 and loop. I also ignore all bytes received which are equal to 254 or 255, but that is probably due to dodgy wiring when I used to run this on the +3. :-) Oh, and I probably got this algorithm out of the Sam ROM. And now I think about it, this business of waiting until the interrupt line is deactivated before fetching the input byte probably explains why all my interrupt-driven efforts failed. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 12:08:34 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256621.003BDCCB.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 12:02:23 +0100 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 508 Lines: 13 >I also ignore all bytes received which are equal to 254 or 255, but that >is probably due to dodgy wiring when I used to run this on the +3. :-) 254 (FEh) is MIDI's active sensing. So the equipment knows that that link is up and passing data. Should always sent if there is a significant gap between data. (Otherwise the equipment will most likely turn all notes off because it thinks it's dead...) I can't remember off hand what FFh is for... But a quick look at my table at home will tell me. Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 12:08:35 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256621.003CB446.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 12:05:35 +0100 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 515 Lines: 19 IMC advised against me making a new MIDI interface: >Don't do it! I had a play last night (that was the second time yesterday I >typed some code into a spectrum emulator) and as far as I could tell the >thing worked. The only thing is... apparently the interrupt is generated >before the MIDI byte is available. The routine which worked was along the >following lines. [snipped code] Hmmmmm..... OK. I'll have a go... Simon: Should all this MIDI stuff go into your tech man (if it works)? Cheers, Justin. From imc Fri Jun 12 12:19:26 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <80256621.003BDCCB.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at "Jun 12, 98 12:02:23 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 12:19:26 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 522 Lines: 12 Justin_Skists@case.co.uk explained: > 254 (FEh) is MIDI's active sensing. So the equipment knows that that link > is up and passing data. Ah. That would probably explain it then. The keyboard I have at the moment doesn't seem to send them, but I used to get them at regular intervals which I suppose was with the other keyboard. However, I think they occasionally appeared between bytes of another sequence, resulting in my program seeing a very high top E. That could still be down to dodgy wiring though. :-) imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 12:27:27 1998 Message-ID: <35810FD0.B460A962@purple.dircon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 12:24:00 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SD or not to SD References: <199806120753.JAA08741@mailserv.caiw.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 636 Lines: 15 Robert van der Veeke wrote: > 1: Who is actually still using the SD-harddisk interface, 2: who have had > one, and 3: who is thinking of switching to the ATOM when it comes out. Hi Robert, No, I definitely don't think you are alone in having problems with the interface. I bought one last year, which turned out to be faulty. Nev kindly sent me a replacement very quickly - which I erm never got to work :) It could have been a problem with the two hard drives I tried though, I suppose. I will definitely be getting an Atom as soon as I can afford it though. -- * Gavin Smith - ICQ:5099913 Email:gavin.smith@purple.dircon.co.uk * From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 15:07:23 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CASE TECHNOLOGY From: Justin_Skists@case.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256621.004CA657.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:04:14 +0100 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1018 Lines: 26 >> 254 (FEh) is MIDI's active sensing. So the equipment knows that that link >> is up and passing data. > >Ah. That would probably explain it then. The keyboard I have at the moment >doesn't seem to send them, but I used to get them at regular intervals which >I suppose was with the other keyboard. However, I think they occasionally >appeared between bytes of another sequence, resulting in my program seeing a >very high top E. That could still be down to dodgy wiring though. :-) You can send an FEh when ever you want (that's why it has the MSB set). The MIDI spec, IIRC, doesn't say when they should be sent (or even if they should at all); it's just advisable to send them when there is a gap between data... One thing that confused me when I started this MIDI-bar project was running status............ (where, if, say, note on was used in channel 3, all data that follows is note on on chan3 (no more status bytes) until a different status byte is used. (note off is note on with velocity 0)) Justin. From imc Fri Jun 12 15:30:43 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <80256621.004CA657.00@notes_a.case.co.uk> from "Justin_Skists@case.co.uk" at "Jun 12, 98 03:04:14 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:30:43 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 488 Lines: 10 On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:04:14 +0100, Justin_Skists@case.co.uk said: > One thing that confused me when I started this MIDI-bar project was running > status............ (where, if, say, note on was used in channel 3, all data > that follows is note on on chan3 (no more status bytes) until a different > status byte is used. (note off is note on with velocity 0)) Oh yes, me too. Although devices tend to resend the status byte if any length of time has elapsed since the last note. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 16:50:47 1998 Message-Id: <199806121457.PAA05587@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: dave hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:57:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: word - ascii X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2005 Lines: 122 i had another tinker, and came up with this. ok, so it's not brilliant, but it is kinda quick, and only uses 2k of tables. It assumes you have a routine available which can print to the screen, at the current print position, a null-terminated string. step one: set up the following table at a known address. That is, pick a k where 0<=k<=255, so the table is stored from address k*256 up until 2047 bytes after that. baselow = k*256 bashigh = baselow+768 for b=0 to 255 n=b for low = 0 to 2 poke baselow + b + low*256, n mod 10 n = n div 10 next n = b * 256 for hi = 0 to 4 poke basehigh + b + hi*256, 48+ (n mod 10) n = n div 10 next next step two: call the following routine with DE containing the 16-bit integer you want to print. (UNSIGNED). If your 16-bit int is in HL, then prefix this code with a quick EX DE,HL LD L,D LD D,k LD H,k+3 LD BC, buffer+5 XOR A LD (BC),A DEC BC LD A,(DE) ADD A,(HL) CP 58 JP NC, carry1 LD (BC),A DEC BC INC D INC H LD A,(DE) ADD A,(HL) CP 58 JP NC,carry2 back1: LD (BC),A DEC BC INC D INC H LD A(,DE) ADD A,(HL) CP 68 JP NC,carry3 back2: LD (BC),A DEC BC INC H LD A,(HL) back3: LD (BC),A DEC BC INC H LD A,(HL) LD (BC),A ##now call your print string routine. the start of the string ##is pointed to by BC, and the string is null-terminated RET carry1: SUB 10 LD (BC),A DEC BC INC D INC H LD A,(DE) ADD A,(HL) INC A CP 58 JP C,back1 carry2:SUB 10 LD (BC),A DEC BC INC D INC H LD A,(DE) ADD A,(HL) INC A CP 58 JP C,back2 carry3:SUB 10 LD (BC),A DEC BC INC H LD A,(HL) INC A CP 58 JP C,back3 SUB 10 LD (BC),A DEC BC INC H LD A,(HL) INC A LD (BC),A ##now call your printstring routine here ##string is pointed to by BC RET buffer: DEFS 6 The 16-bit word is written out to the buffer including prefixing zeros, ie, 574 is written into the buffer as 00574 [null] As for printing out longs, yr best bet would be to print out two words like 65535:65535 (i can't think of any obviously quick way to print out 32-bit ints) hope that helps. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 16:50:48 1998 Message-Id: <199806121513.QAA07606@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: dave hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:12:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: word - ascii In-reply-to: <199806121457.PAA05587@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 814 Lines: 16 apologies for the code looking ugly... i'd thought it'd be tabbed properly and stuff, but no. anyway, the advantage of that particular piece of code is that you aren't wasting time calling a character-print routine in the middle of converting the int into ascii... chances are the char print routine would have to preserve the current registers and stuff, so you save lots of push/pop time. convert it all first, then print it all using some kind of optimised string-print routine. iirc, imc's second routine (using bcd) didn't actually print the string; it just converted the int into a three-byte bcd representation. what's the best way to then _print_ that bcd number? it was from originally trying to write some code to print the resulting bcd number that i ended up writing this routine instead. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 16:50:48 1998 Message-Id: <199806121529.QAA09915@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: dave hooper <9531427@EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK> Organization: stripwax paranoia consultants To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:29:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-reply-to: <000401bd9575$80195ce0$ad63accf@default> References: <199806111730.SAA19933@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 559 Lines: 26 > FRAMEINT: > LD A,0 > OR A > RET Z ; return if frame instance already running shouldn't that be ret nz? anyway, wouldn't you maybe be better off doing something like: FRAMEINT: NOP LD A, 201 LD (FRAMEINT),A EI ... DI XOR A LD (FRAMEINT),A POP AF EI RET since you want that check to be as *quick* as possible. maybe not, dunno. oh, and when the frameint instance check fails (RET NZ or whatever) you're still left with AF on the stack. maybe i missed something. From imc Fri Jun 12 18:31:35 1998 Subject: Re: word - ascii In-Reply-To: <199806121513.QAA07606@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from dave hooper at "Jun 12, 98 04:12:23 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 18:31:35 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 751 Lines: 37 On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:12:23 +0000, dave hooper said: > iirc, imc's second routine (using bcd) didn't actually print the > string; it just converted the int into a three-byte bcd > representation. True. > what's the best way to then _print_ that bcd number? LD A,C LD B,"0" ADD B ; print it LD A,D RRCA:RRCA:RRCA:RRCA:AND 15 ADD B ; print it LD A,D AND 15 ADD B ; print it LD A,E RRCA:RRCA:RRCA:RRCA:AND 15 ADD B ; print it LD A,E AND 15 ADD B ; print it There might be some trick using RLD or RRD to avoid the four RRCA instructions, but then again it might turn out slower. It all depends on why you are trying to convert the word to ASCII. If you immediately want to print it then BCD is probably not the best answer. imc From imc Fri Jun 12 18:34:18 1998 Subject: Re: Is "MIDI In" bit on 249 stuck? In-Reply-To: <199806121529.QAA09915@renko.ucs.ed.ac.uk> from dave hooper at "Jun 12, 98 04:29:31 pm" To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 18:34:18 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 600 Lines: 21 On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:29:31 +0000, dave hooper said: > anyway, wouldn't you maybe be better off doing something like: > FRAMEINT: > NOP > LD A, 201 > LD (FRAMEINT),A > EI > ... > DI > XOR A > LD (FRAMEINT),A > POP AF > EI > RET Quite possibly. On the other hand, if you are not using the frame interrupt for anything particularly onerous then why not just make it re-entrant? For instance, if "..." consists of just "PUSH HL:LD HL,(FRAMES):INC HL: LD (FRAMES),HL:POP HL" then it isn't worth protecting. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 18:49:36 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:56:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SD or not to SD In-reply-to: <199806120753.JAA08741@mailserv.caiw.nl> Message-Id: <19980612174226Z49376-269+374@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 960 Lines: 26 > From: "Robert van der Veeke" > To: "Sam users" > Subject: SD or not to SD > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:55:40 +0200 > Reply-to: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 17:47:20 BST > 1: Who is actually still using the SD-harddisk interface, 2: who have had > one, and 3: who is thinking of switching to the ATOM when it comes out. > > My answers are :No, yes and certainly will do so (after having seen the > prototype work with B-dos). 1 - Not. Although I did consider it a loooonng time ago. 2 - Not me ;) I couldn't afford that much :) 3 - Errr... I've got one, and am just sorting out a nice Hard Drive Mind u, I suppose I could be accused of being a bit biased - working for Malcolm ;) > -- > Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics > [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] > Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 20:29:08 1998 From: nevilley@nfy53.demon.co.uk (Nev Young) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SD or not to SD Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 19:19:07 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <35837c76.903517@post.demon.co.uk> References: <199806120753.JAA08741@mailserv.caiw.nl> In-Reply-To: <199806120753.JAA08741@mailserv.caiw.nl> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1810 Lines: 38 On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:55:40 +0200, "Robert van der Veeke" wrote: > Just a a few questions about the SD interface, this is just something i > want to know, because I myself had only problems with the bloody thing and > I never got it working properly. And over at CSS (yes Bill I am taking > another thread from there to this list) Samboss is claiming that it is > working wonderfully, but hearing that from only one person is not enough > for me, especially because a lot of SD-interfaces have been sold (or should > I doubt that to?). 1) Samsboss did not get an SD interface from me. AFAIK he doesn't have one. ???!!!??? 2) about 150 are out there somewhere, there are no PCBs left to build any more.. As, when I was running SD, I offered an unconditional money back thingy there shouldn't be any one with a non operational unit apart perhaps from some Fred customers. Collin appeared to be a bit lax in passing on s/w and hardware updates. The hardware appeared to be stable after the addition of the piggyback chip. I still had problems getting some drives to work eg Quantum drives never worked, some Conner drives would recalibrate at the start of every command, and others (can't remember which) would not recover from a spindle power down. > > 1: Who is actually still using the SD-harddisk interface, who knows ? I lost the database. > 2: who have had one, and speak up Ian, I know you had one. Tell em how crap it is/was. > 3: who is thinking of switching to the ATOM when it comes out. I already have. (now there's an honest man I hear you all shout:) with the advent of the Atom I would not recommend the SD unit to anyone. -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) webpage under construction at www,nfy53,demon,co,uk From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 21:34:21 1998 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:26:56 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Ian Dalziel Subject: Re: SD or not to SD In-Reply-To: <199806120753.JAA08741@mailserv.caiw.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 633 Lines: 20 In article <199806120753.JAA08741@mailserv.caiw.nl>, Robert van der Veeke writes > >1: Who is actually still using the SD-harddisk interface, No >2: who have had >one, Yes >and 3: who is thinking of switching to the ATOM when it comes out. Yes It does seem to work, though - I've stored data and retrieved it. Just the amount of work writing control code to get the thing do anything I want it to do means it's been in te "Pending" tray for a year or so. Multiple floppy images sounds exactly what I wanted, actually. (Pending ; adj. (business) - too difficult / can't be arsed) -- Ian Dalziel From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 21:48:47 1998 From: Matthew Craven Organization: Umist To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:45:58 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SD or not to SD References: <199806120753.JAA08741@mailserv.caiw.nl> In-reply-to: <19980612174226Z49376-269+374@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <62AF77F61@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 261 Lines: 6 > > one, and 3: who is thinking of switching to the ATOM when it comes out. > 3 - Errr... I've got one, and am just sorting out a nice Hard Drive When is the Atom coming out and what types of hard drive will it work with and what sizes of hard drive, etc. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 22:23:11 1998 From: David Ledbury at To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:11:56 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SD or not to SD References: <19980612174226Z49376-269+374@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> In-reply-to: <62AF77F61@fs1.ma.umist.ac.uk> Message-Id: <19980612211832Z49363-269+423@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 729 Lines: 24 > From: "Matthew Craven" > > > one, and 3: who is thinking of switching to the ATOM when it comes out. > > 3 - Errr... I've got one, and am just sorting out a nice Hard Drive > > When is the Atom coming out and what types of hard drive will it work > with and what sizes of hard drive, etc. Hi Matthew! To answer the questions as best as I can... Very shortly (in fact, I believe right now!) so it's best to ring up Uncle Malcolm on 0161 797 0651 to check.... particularly as Bury is only up the road from Umist :) What types? What sizes? Alll IDE ... AFAIK and with 2.5" internally... or 3.5" externally. Edwins' got quite a few gig working with it... 8 is it Edwin? David From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 23:07:00 1998 Message-Id: <199806122202.AAA15127@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: SD or not to SD Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 00:04:44 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 361 Lines: 11 > Van: Robert van der Veeke > Aan: Sam users > Onderwerp: SD or not to SD > Datum: Friday, June 12, 1998 9:55 Thanks for the replies, it has cleared a lot for me :) -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Jun 12 23:38:17 1998 From: nevilley@spamblock.nfy53.demon.co.uk (Nev Young) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: SD or not to SD Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:32:51 GMT Organization: nfy53 Message-ID: <3581ac53.13158611@post.demon.co.uk> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 318 Lines: 14 On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:26:56 +0100, Ian Dalziel wrote: > > (Pending ; adj. (business) - too difficult / can't be arsed) > ITYM buFFsy -- Nev - no longer at nevilley@ndirect.co.uk and getting no spam at all (yet) webpage under construction at www,nfy53,demon,co,uk From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Jun 13 00:57:42 1998 From: PGLOVER43 Message-ID: <15077c94.3581bf0c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 19:51:39 EDT To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Format Covers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 168 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 977 Lines: 24 In a message dated 11/06/98 22:32:25 BST, you write: << With due respect to Bob's polite answer to your question (i.e. he didn't call you stupid or put you in his kill file), I think that his action on Andrew's page was vindictive and uncalled for. This is probably the first time I've seen Bob being reasonable with an inquiry like this on the list. My god.. is this a new Bob!? :) I doubt it though. :( >> Thanks for your comments, Dave. Maybe Bob gave a polite answer because I was in tactful/diplomatic mode. Angry letters seldom get reasonable replies, whoever they're aimed at, or whatever their content. Even Anne Robinson (BBC Watchdog, etc.) recommends such an approach, rather than an angry tirade against someone. However, I reserve the right to lose my temper and become very offensive to anybody on the SAM users list that I choose. For now, there seem to be enough people ranting and raving, so I'll stay calm for the time being. - Phil Glover. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Jun 13 08:56:45 1998 Message-Id: <199806130752.JAA21707@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: sam-users Subject: Re: SD or not to SD Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 09:55:08 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2004 Lines: 48 > Van: Nev Young > Aan: sam-users@nvg.unit.no > Onderwerp: Re: SD or not to SD > Datum: Friday, June 12, 1998 9:19 A bit of a better reply than last night (after coming home from my work shouting "wich idiot decided to take that last minute order of a special 96 page newspaper to be finished on fridaynight) > 1) Samsboss did not get an SD interface from me. AFAIK he doesn't have > one. ???!!!??? Off course not, Hi I am Samboss and I want to order a SD-interface, no he did that under his real name. So he still could have one. > 2) about 150 are out there somewhere, there are no PCBs left to build > any more.. As, when I was running SD, I offered an unconditional money > back thingy there shouldn't be any one with a non operational unit > apart perhaps from some Fred customers. Collin appeared to be a bit > lax in passing on s/w and hardware updates. The hardware appeared to > be stable after the addition of the piggyback chip. I still had > problems getting some drives to work eg Quantum drives never worked, > some Conner drives would recalibrate at the start of every command, > and others (can't remember which) would not recover from a spindle > power down. Well that Explains a lot, I only had a FRED-sub at that time, shame that I did not know about the the piggyback chip, could perhaps have saved me a lot of trouble. 150 sold, that's even better than I thought. > > 1: Who is actually still using the SD-harddisk interface, > who knows ? I lost the database. > > 2: who have had one, and > speak up Ian, I know you had one. Tell em how crap it is/was. > > 3: who is thinking of switching to the ATOM when it comes out. > I already have. (now there's an honest man I hear you all shout:) > with the advent of the Atom I would not recommend the SD unit to > anyone. And that is something I call honest :) -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Mind you if we call you "Bruce", it might otherwise cause some confusion. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Jun 13 16:21:39 1998 Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:16:52 -0400 From: Gordon Wallis <101762.2062@compuserve.com> Subject: Real Sam Users List To: "INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no" Message-ID: <199806131117_MC2-4014-8ECC@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 325 Lines: 7 Message text written by INTERNET:sam-users@nvg.unit.no >Dave (?) 101762.2062@compuserve.com< Though I have no real objections to being called Dave, my name is Gordon Wallis. I also have no objections to being called Ralph (for no real reason), or HEXdidn't... (the name I 'work' under, and may soon use for my Web site...) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Jun 13 20:05:19 1998 From: davidm@enterprise.net (David Munden) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:56:16 GMT Message-ID: <35802387.2273152@mail.enterprise.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 288 Lines: 10 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:16:30 +0100, Dean Liversidge wrote: >> I understand that the pages have now been removed. >But some of us have the pages stored on local drives..... In that case could you send me a copy as I would love to see what all the fuss is about. :) _ |_)avid (\/)unden From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Jun 14 11:17:55 1998 X-Lotus-FromDomain: POSTMASTER From: Samsboss@postmaster.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Message-ID: <80256623.0038891B.00@horus.postmaster.net.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:17:34 +0100 Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 565 Lines: 24 | On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:16:30 +0100, Dean Liversidge wrote: | | >> I understand that the pages have now been removed. | >But some of us have the pages stored on local drives..... | | | In that case could you send me a copy as I would love to see what all | the fuss is about. :) | _ | |_)avid (\/)unden Incitement to cause another person to breach the law is, in itself, a criminal offence David ;-) -- Samsboss - The One And Only. Accept No Others. ___________________________________ To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Jun 14 12:54:13 1998 From: davewhitmore@enterprise.net (Dave) To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: A Brief(ish) Statement. Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:47:24 GMT Message-ID: <3583b802.5976938@mail.enterprise.net> References: <80256623.0038891B.00@horus.postmaster.net.uk> In-Reply-To: <80256623.0038891B.00@horus.postmaster.net.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 583 Lines: 24 On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:17:34 +0100, Samsboss@postmaster.co.uk wrote: >| >> I understand that the pages have now been removed. >| >But some of us have the pages stored on local drives..... >| >| >| In that case could you send me a copy as I would love to see what all >| the fuss is about. :) >| _ >| |_)avid (\/)unden > >Incitement to cause another person to breach the law is, in itself, a >criminal >offence David ;-) Anonymous people who preach, are, in themselves, fucking pains in the arse. Bye, _ |_)ave (/\)hitmore http://homepages.enterprise.net/davewhitmore/