From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Apr 1 11:38:54 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:01:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: something different..... Message-ID: In-reply-to: <33efd82b.37028c9b@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 139 Lines: 10 > Have a nice MELISSA-FREE Easter! Easily, since I don't use Outlook. ;) Paul -- Thought for the day: A penny saved is ridiculous. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Apr 1 11:47:40 1999 Message-ID: <005d01be7c2c$28658660$f03ca8c0@orctel.internal> From: "Dave" To: References: Subject: Re: something different..... Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:40:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 280 Lines: 12 > Easily, since I don't use Outlook. ;) 'Tis a Word macro virus - just don't open it with macros enabled. (check mail header for stunning revelation) DMZ --- The last word in this email is in no way meant to imply any affiliation or advertisment on behalf of the etc. etc... From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Apr 1 12:18:09 1999 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: something different..... References: <005d01be7c2c$28658660$f03ca8c0@orctel.internal> X-Face: "J~~0'L`GfL^sW4%+i35x#X308)K/$7\]qy)UZ$`k:}Bx]6mgAA^N5,@brn/19TPn%o;j28 W7mD)UN~se8P9\3?wU.g+i9)X Date: 01 Apr 1999 12:16:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Dave"'s message of "Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:40:40 +0100" Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.07008 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.80) Emacs/20.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 521 Lines: 17 "Dave" writes: > > Easily, since I don't use Outlook. ;) > > 'Tis a Word macro virus - just don't open it with macros enabled. > (check mail header for stunning revelation) Yeah but all it does is send a load of mail to people in your address book if you happen to use Outlook so the original message was kind of correct ... Still I'm even safer, I'm on Linux :) Lee. -- I was doing object-oriented assembly at 1 year old ... For some reason my mom insists on calling it "Playing with blocks" From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Apr 1 13:59:15 1999 From: Psycho Billy Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:53:31 GMT+0 Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <2B454BA4751@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 453 Lines: 24 > Oooh... > > Took me a while to realise I wasn't Johnna Teare nor Lee Willis.. :) > Eh? > > >Samsboss@Postmaster.co.uk > >Bill Ritman > > What ever happened to these guys? Both sort of disspeared around about the time Bob went quiet. Not that I want to open up THAT can of worms again... > > > Jut. Peace, Love, Kisses... JohnnaPig Teare JPOL: http://johnnapig.webjump.com "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Apr 1 14:06:10 1999 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Subject: Re: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 References: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E49@mailhost.aculab.com> X-Face: "J~~0'L`GfL^sW4%+i35x#X308)K/$7\]qy)UZ$`k:}Bx]6mgAA^N5,@brn/19TPn%o;j28 W7mD)UN~se8P9\3?wU.g+i9)X Date: 01 Apr 1999 14:04:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: Justin Skists's message of "Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:40:29 +0100" Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.07008 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.80) Emacs/20.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 369 Lines: 14 Justin Skists writes: > Oooh... > > Took me a while to realise I wasn't Johnna Teare nor Lee Willis.. :) Well I can assure you that you're not me, well at least I don't think you are, but in case you are can you fix this SAMBA problem I seem to be having right now ... Lee -- You can only be young once, but you can be immature forever. From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Apr 1 19:40:09 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19990330180839.L18241@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:25:06 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Demobase images (was Re: RGB Demo...) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1015 Lines: 25 At 12:15 am +0100 31/3/99, Paul Walker wrote: >Failing that, use PNG, which includes gamma correction data. If you can't >write it, get a decent OS. ;-) I could even do that. But not until I go back to Cambridge... Although it isn't so much a matter of what my software can write (it can write just about anything) as a matter of what visitors to the web page can read. The current (Macintosh) versions of Netscape and iCab can read PNGs. Internet Explorer and Cyberdog cannot, and they both pass the file onto GraphicConverter which can (but only because I've told it to). PNG isn't nearly so well established as GIF or JPG, and I'd rather keep my pages available even to people who don't bother to upgrade their web browser every weekend. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Apr 1 19:52:06 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:43:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: something different..... Message-ID: In-reply-to: <005d01be7c2c$28658660$f03ca8c0@orctel.internal> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 529 Lines: 17 > > Easily, since I don't use Outlook. ;) > 'Tis a Word macro virus - just don't open it with macros enabled. I never open anything anyone emails to me unless I'm expecting it, and even then it gets scanned five ways to Sunday. You're correct in that it's a macro virus, btw, but it requires Outlook to spread. ;) I was a bit *too* quick in hitting the send button earlier... > (check mail header for stunning revelation) Erm... nah, can't be arsed. Paul -- I ate the Bible. -- Beverley White on alt.society.generation-x From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Thu Apr 1 20:45:48 1999 Message-ID: <001d01be7c77$432fef80$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <005d01be7c2c$28658660$f03ca8c0@orctel.internal> Subject: Re: something different..... Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:38:43 -0800 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 706 Lines: 18 From: Lee Willis > Yeah but all it does is send a load of mail to people in your address > book if you happen to use Outlook so the original message was kind of > correct ... > > Still I'm even safer, I'm on Linux :) Sad thing is, if the cluebie had actually known what they were doing, they (a) wouldn't have spelled Outlook wrong in the source (it was spelled Outilook when it was looking for the registry key), and (b) they would have used the MAPI address book, instead of tying it to a single mail program - for maximum coverage. *sighs* Amateurs. Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation). From owner-sam-users@nvg.unit.no Fri Apr 2 11:34:19 1999 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:20:36 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no From: Graham Goring Subject: Re: something different..... References: <33efd82b.37028c9b@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <33efd82b.37028c9b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 4.01 <8OHKkEUpoELRXEckwUjJGSM0AF> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Status: RO Content-Length: 348 Lines: 13 In message <33efd82b.37028c9b@aol.com>, PGLOVER43@aol.com writes >Have a nice MELISSA-FREE Easter! Y'know, I hear the Melissa brought down COMPAQ's HQ a few days back... Graham Goring -- /====================================\ | Ber-Limey! There's not even enough | |room to swing a cat in this sodding-| \=========== ICQ: 5333545 ===========/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 3 15:09:57 1999 Message-ID: <006101be7ddb$aaba52c0$b15008c3@persona> From: "D" To: Subject: Matthew there??? Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:10:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 116 Lines: 5 Is Matthew Holt still on this list? I've been trying to email him for months but cant find his address :( David From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 5 15:25:10 1999 Message-ID: <19990405152510.A5744@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:25:10 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: ; from Dan Doore on Tue, Mar 30, 1999 at 07:54:30PM +0000 Status: RO Content-Length: 971 Lines: 16 On Tue, Mar 30, 1999 at 07:54:30PM +0000, Dan Doore wrote: > Here we are again, 68 subbers and only a few duplicates/unknowns. > You know the drill, if something's incorrect, drop me a mail and I'll change the database. > Incidentally since I started doing this we have had 85 different people verified as list members and they are tacked on the end of the list, not that useful but nice to play spot the name. > Have a nice Easter break if you get one, I'm off home to drink the fridge dry... > Adrian Francis adrian.francis@cableinet.co.uk Aley Kept AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com Allan Skillman allan.skillman@arm.com Andrew Collier asc25@cam.ac.uk [snip] Did you really have to write this with no linebreaks?! ;-) imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 10:08:28 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E4D@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.unit.no'" Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:13:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 297 Lines: 13 Johnna wrote: >> Took me a while to realise I wasn't Johnna Teare nor Lee Willis.. :) >> > >Eh? The poster of the list, mixed with my mailer which decided to word-wrap it all around the place, made it look like my name belonged to one address and my address belong to another name... Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 10:11:45 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E4E@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.unit.no'" Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:14:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 387 Lines: 14 > From: Lee Willis [SMTP:lee@gbdirect.co.uk] > >> Oooh... >> >> Took me a while to realise I wasn't Johnna Teare nor Lee Willis.. :) > >Well I can assure you that you're not me, well at least I don't think >you are, but in case you are can you fix this SAMBA problem I seem to be >having right now ... Well.. umm.. I can't.. but that doesn't prove a thing! :) What is SAMBA? Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 10:19:06 1999 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: [OT] Samba References: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E4E@mailhost.aculab.com> X-Face: "J~~0'L`GfL^sW4%+i35x#X308)K/$7\]qy)UZ$`k:}Bx]6mgAA^N5,@brn/19TPn%o;j28 W7mD)UN~se8P9\3?wU.g+i9)X Date: 06 Apr 1999 10:16:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: Justin Skists's message of "Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:14:45 +0100" Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.07008 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.80) Emacs/20.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 411 Lines: 14 Justin Skists writes: > What is SAMBA? lets a Linux machine act as a file/print share for Winblows machines. Basically make the Linux box look just like an NT machine. http://www.samba.org if you really have nothing better to do with your time :) Lee. -- I was doing object-oriented assembly at 1 year old ... For some reason my mom insists on calling it "Playing with blocks" From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 10:27:24 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:20:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000401be800e$c6518000$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E4E@mailhost.aculab.com> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 409 Lines: 11 > Well.. umm.. I can't.. but that doesn't prove a thing! :) > What is SAMBA? >From the man page: "The Samba software suite is a collection of programs that implements the SMB protocol for UNIX systems. This protocol is sometimes also referred to as the LanManager or Netbios protocol." So it's lets Unix machines connect to MS Windows shares, and share resources for access by MS Windows machines. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 10:27:24 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:24:43 +0100 Message-ID: <000501be800f$4e0c5b50$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E4E@mailhost.aculab.com> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 73 Lines: 1 Can anyone confirm what Z80 flags should be set after INI(R) and OTI(R)? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 10:53:16 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:50:26 +0100 Message-ID: <000101be8012$e5b4a360$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 662 Lines: 19 (sorry, hit ctrl-return too soon and sent it!) Hi, The xz80 Z80 core (as used by SimCoupe) seems to set the zero flag when B is non zero after INI and OTI instruction and reset it when B is zero. SimCoupe has inherited the same behaviour, but I've noticed a commented out section of code that seems to do what I'd expect. I seem to have lost my Programming the Z80 book so I can't check it. I found a web site I found detailing them the flags that says the zero flag is indeterminate, yet BDOS relies on the zero flag matching B to do block reads from the hard disk, and it must work on a real SAM. Can anyone confirm what the official docs say? Thanks Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 12:34:13 1999 From: Frode Tenneboe Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:33:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199904061133.NAA03438@asmal.edh.ericsson.se> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 714 Lines: 19 > Hi, > > The xz80 Z80 core (as used by SimCoupe) seems to set the zero flag when B is > non zero after INI and OTI instruction and reset it when B is zero. SimCoupe > has inherited the same behaviour, but I've noticed a commented out section > of code that seems to do what I'd expect. I seem to have lost my Programming > the Z80 book so I can't check it. > > I found a web site I found detailing them the flags that says the zero flag > is indeterminate, yet BDOS relies on the zero flag matching B to do block > reads from the hard disk, and it must work on a real SAM. > > Can anyone confirm what the official docs say? Are there any _official_ docs? :) From memory: Z = 1 if B = 0, else Z = 0. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 13:21:22 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:19:02 +0100 Message-ID: <000401be8027$a8159860$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199904061133.NAA03438@asmal.edh.ericsson.se> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 448 Lines: 16 Frode Tenneboe wrote: > Are there any _official_ docs? :) hehe, good point! Simon Cooke will probably have them if they do exist anywhere! I usually trust the Rodnay Zaks book for the documented side of things, but can't find it anywhere. I reckon my wife tidied it out of the bookcase because it looks too shabby, so I'll have to buy another copy! > From memory: > > Z = 1 if B = 0, else Z = 0. Yeah, that's what I reckon it should be. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 13:32:07 1999 X-Authentication-Warning: pc203.cambridge.arm.com: askillma owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:36:04 +0100 (GMT) From: Allan Skillman To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) In-Reply-To: <000401be8027$a8159860$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1278 Lines: 26 Hi All, Before I go on, I would just like to say thanks to Si for taking on SimCoupe for Win32. Its someting that has been required for quite a while now, and I have neither the expertise in Win32 nor the time (anymore) to take it under my wing, and I pray for the day I can bury the DOS version :). BTW Si, would it be possible for you to keep me up to date with the core changes to the emulator, so I can update the UNIX version accordingly. In fact any chance you could use Tcl/Tk for the interface so we can have a single UI? On the subject of the undocumented flag behavior, the commented out code comes from the Z80 kernel in Xzx which was the original kernel used for the early versions of SimCoupe. I wonder where Ian got his info from, most of the stuff in xz80 is pretty spot on, Ian? regards Allan +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ | Allan Skillman | "There are five flavours of resons, the | | EDA Group | elementary particles of magic : up, down, | | ARM | sideways, sex-appeal and peppermint." | | allan.skillman@arm.com | - Terry Pratchett (Lords and Ladies) | +------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 13:54:12 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E57@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "Sam-Users (E-mail)" Subject: I've moved... Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:59:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 196 Lines: 8 Gang, Who ever has my personal postal (snail) address should take note of this: I've moved out of Watford and into Milton Keynes... Anyone who wants/needs my new address, gimme a shout... Jut. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 16:17:38 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: Re: Win32 SimCoupe (was: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!)) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:15:16 +0100 Message-ID: <000901be8040$46a40850$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 6008 Lines: 108 Hi Allan, > Before I go on, I would just like to say thanks to Si for taking on > SimCoupe for Win32. Hope you don't mind if I pick your brains from time to time :-) I'm working to get most of the original functionality up and running under Win32 before letting anyone at it. Even then it'll still lack sound so that'd be one of the first things for someone to add! > BTW Si, would it be possible for you to keep me up to date with the core > changes to the emulator, so I can update the UNIX version accordingly. Sure, although I'm not sure how much of a struggle it'll be keeping the sources the same. The Win32 graphics stuff is already in C++ template classes making is easier to manage, especially with virtual functions replacing the function pointers). I wasn't sure whether I could rely on the various Unix systems having a C++ compiler in addition to a C compiler. That thought brought me round to the idea of keeping the sources separate as it'd be much easier to work on. Hopefully most changes will be simple tweaks or new chunks of code that could be ported back to the Unix version as needed. A lot of the initial stuff I worked on was Win32 specific to implement functionality that's already in the DOS and Unix versions. A general run-down (probably with bits I've forgotton) is: The graphics side has taken quite a while to optimise further, and to make the most of extra video memory and hardware acceleration, if available. There are 1x1, 2x1 and 2x2 source modes for the image created - 2x1 will be faster than 2x2 if the hardware is up to it, and allows mode 3 to be displayed properly. The displayed image can be full screen (any depth) or windowed (uses the current display depth of course), and the windowed version can be stretched to any size you like (but with the aspect ratio forced to be correct). There's an optional frame sync (which uses multimedia timer to signal, instead of the tight loop checking the high resolution timer in the first version). There's also manual frame skipping options for slower machines. I've still not added 24-bit support since it can't use the template class because there's no built-in 3 byte type, and dynamic windowed to full screen switching is still away on vacation (but not really that hard to do). Other things on the ToDo list are screen off support (easy) and the CPU speedup it gives (hmmm... not to mention the mode 1 and mode 2 CPU slowdown!). Keyboard support still uses the Win32 API for a full scan but might be moved over to DirectInput if the functions are supported by DirectX3 (to keep NT support). Mouse support is already in and I've made a start on the DirectInput joystick side. I've added SAMBUS clock (read/write) and DALLAS clock (read only - still not sure if it can be written to) support. Both were done without docs so I can't be completely sure whether it'll worth with 100% of programs, but I think I've made it general enough so they should do! In the floppy driver I've added the direction flag and write protection, and tighened up some of the flags used. I'm playing with the idea of yet another disk format capable of handling custom disk formats used by some of the commercial software (and possibly demos?), but that'll have to be once most other things are done (and if I get a replacement PSU so I can play with things on a real SAM). I'm not so worried about getting the timings right or performing proper stepped seeks (yet) - I think Simon Cooke is still working on a (Java) VL1772-02 emulator that may do all of this better anyway! I'm currenly working on adding ATOM hard disk interface support, and have managed to make some progress. Unfortunately I have no real documentation to work from (except the ATA specs for the hard disk part of it) so it's all blind and progress is very slow - I wonder if Edwin will help out here? I spent a good chunk of the Easter weekend reverse engineering BDOS to see what it's doing, and have found 3 of the SAM I/O ports used and most of what they're used for. BDOS now recognises my virtual disk and displays the correct description and geometry when it boots. Strangely it won't let me select records until I use the formatter program on them (even thought I ignore writes and always return blocks of zeros for reads!). Sector reads and rights should go in tonight if I get time. Other than that I've not changed very much common core stuff, only tweaks for speed-ups and others to keep related code together (I've moved some of the graphics logic from processor.c into the new graphics classes). I've also cached a few values that are masked and checked frequently but not changed often (like border colour), and delayed the mouse reset until it's next read (and if the necessary time has elapsed) - since this is checked for every iteration of the main loop normally! > In fact any chance you could use Tcl/Tk for the interface so we can have > a single UI? I know of it but have never used it. How would it fit into the Win32 version - isn't it a separate interpreter? The current UI still only consists of a single File menu containing Exit(!) but I've created a few dialogue boxes for setting things up that will be accessed through it. I'd like to use the open common dialogue box for file selection and tabbed dialogue boxes for keep the options clear. > On the subject of the undocumented flag behavior, the commented out code > comes from the Z80 kernel in Xzx which was the original kernel used for > the early versions of SimCoupe. I wonder where Ian got his info from, > most of the stuff in xz80 is pretty spot on, Ian? I checked the latest xz80 source yesterday and the INI and OTI flags were still as SimCoupe has them. I just changed the 'b>0' to '!b' to correct the Z flag but left the other part of the expression alone. It's a great C Z80 emulator, and I can't see there being much else to squeeze out of it without going to ASM (all my ASM attempts in the memory functions were worse than the optimising compiler!). Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 16:31:21 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E5B@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "Sam-Users (E-mail)" Subject: SAM Scart Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:35:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 86 Lines: 7 Guys... I'd like to get hold of a SAM-style SCART cable. Can anyone help? Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 16:53:12 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SAM Scart Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:51:13 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be8045$4c8bed50$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E5B@mailhost.aculab.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 162 Lines: 6 Justin Skists wrote: > I'd like to get hold of a SAM-style SCART cable. Can anyone help? Ooo, I'd like one too if it means I can hook it up to my TV (Sony)! Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 6 16:56:57 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E5D@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: SAM Scart Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:01:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 267 Lines: 12 > From: Si Owen [SMTP:si@wordcraft.co.uk] > >Justin Skists wrote: >> I'd like to get hold of a SAM-style SCART cable. Can anyone help? > >Ooo, I'd like one too if it means I can hook it up to my TV (Sony)! Bagsy: I get the first one!!! Jut. From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Wed Apr 7 00:57:24 1999 Message-ID: <19990407005724.A22674@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:57:24 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: <000401be8027$a8159860$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: ; from Allan Skillman on Tue, Apr 06, 1999 at 01:36:04PM +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 1714 Lines: 41 On Tue, Apr 06, 1999 at 01:36:04PM +0100, Allan Skillman wrote: > On the subject of the undocumented flag behavior, the commented out code > comes from the Z80 kernel in Xzx which was the original kernel used for > the early versions of SimCoupe. I wonder where Ian got his info from, > most of the stuff in xz80 is pretty spot on, Ian? I wonder, too... must have had a brainstorm. :-) You will remember I used to have the "dec b" and the "out" in the wrong order too. All the weird and wonderful undocumented flag behaviour is apparently written up in the cssfaq, although I am not online at the moment to check. My guess at the parity flag for the INI instruction is nowhere near what is written there. As for the difference in zero flag between INI and OUTI, I can only assume that it is wrong since such weird behaviour (at variance with published docs) ought to have merited a comment in the code if it were intentional. There are a couple of other things I have fixed since the code was incorporated in SimCoupe. cbops.c -#define bit(n,x) (f=(f&1)|((x&(1<>8)|(((a&0x0f)<(z&0x0f))<<4)|\ + f=(y&0x80)|(z&0x28)|(y>>8)|(((a&0x0f)<(z&0x0f))<<4)|\ (((a^z)&0x80&(y^a))>>5)|2|((!y)<<6);\ } while(0) (Fix for the undocumented flags in the CP instruction.) imc From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Wed Apr 7 01:03:30 1999 Message-ID: <19990407010330.B22674@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 01:03:30 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Win32 SimCoupe (was: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!)) Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: <000901be8040$46a40850$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: <000901be8040$46a40850$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk>; from Si Owen on Tue, Apr 06, 1999 at 04:15:16PM +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 1201 Lines: 26 On Tue, Apr 06, 1999 at 04:15:16PM +0100, Si Owen wrote: > In the floppy driver I've added the direction flag and write protection, and > tighened up some of the flags used. I'm playing with the idea of yet another > disk format capable of handling custom disk formats used by some of the > commercial software (and possibly demos?) Does the Amstrad DSK format not cover this? (I don't actually know anything about it, except that it is more complicated than a straight dump of all the tracks on the disk.) > I checked the latest xz80 source yesterday and the INI and OTI flags were > still as SimCoupe has them. SimCoupe has probably changed more recently than xz80 has. ;-) > I just changed the 'b>0' to '!b' to correct the > Z flag but left the other part of the expression alone. It's a great C Z80 > emulator, and I can't see there being much else to squeeze out of it without > going to ASM Actually I think I just typed in what came into my head - I'm sure some of the flag calculations must be horribly inefficient. Then again, there is no easy way to generate them unless you want to rely on the host cpu having similar flags which you can just copy. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 01:49:15 1999 Message-ID: <001f01be808f$70895680$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <000901be8040$46a40850$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: Win32 SimCoupe (was: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!)) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:41:56 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1080 Lines: 24 From: Si Owen > In the floppy driver I've added the direction flag and write protection, and > tighened up some of the flags used. I'm playing with the idea of yet another > disk format capable of handling custom disk formats used by some of the > commercial software (and possibly demos?), but that'll have to be once most > other things are done (and if I get a replacement PSU so I can play with > things on a real SAM). I'm not so worried about getting the timings right or > performing proper stepped seeks (yet) - I think Simon Cooke is still working > on a (Java) VL1772-02 emulator that may do all of this better anyway! Er... actually, it's written in C++; the only thing I was thinking of using Java (or rather, WFC) for was to create a front-end shell, that would host the UI for keyboard redefinition, settings, etc etc. It'd also act as a host for the HWND of the display, when not in full screen mode. Nothing time-critical would be in Java - I mean, yeuck! - but I don't mind having the overhead of C++ for a disk controller :) Si (NSFMSFT) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 08:44:16 1999 Message-Id: <001201be80c9$57a0f260$6c51c29e@dfi06.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Re: SAM Scart Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:36:24 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 189 Lines: 14 >Guys... > >I'd like to get hold of a SAM-style SCART cable. Can anyone help? > > >Justin. So, what's the problem? Simply go to the shop and buy a standard vcr scart cable. Aley Keprt From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 08:56:33 1999 Message-Id: <002701be80cb$043c7520$6c51c29e@dfi06.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Re: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:48:24 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1190 Lines: 26 >Hi All, > >Before I go on, I would just like to say thanks to Si for taking on >SimCoupe for Win32. Its someting that has been required for quite a while >now, and I have neither the expertise in Win32 nor the time (anymore) to >take it under my wing, and I pray for the day I can bury the DOS version :). >BTW Si, would it be possible for you to keep me up to date with the core >changes to the emulator, so I can update the UNIX version accordingly. In >fact any chance you could use Tcl/Tk for the interface so we can have a >single UI? > I must notice, that the current SimCoupe's UI is a bit weird, and I vote for a new Win32 interface. I hope Si Owen will make some classic Win32 stuff. btw. I've tested the current Win32 version of SimCoupe (that one I've get from Si Owen) and the fullscreen mode wasn't fullscreen, but just maximized window. I hope this is only alpha version. I don't know if Win32 SimCoupe is available for public, but I can promise the SAAemu for Windows 95 will be available in some weeks. Of course, the current SAAemu version 0.50 is also possible to be run in Windows 95, it depends only on Si Owen's skillness in including it in his SimCoupe for Win32. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 09:13:14 1999 From: Frode Tenneboe Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:10:53 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199904070810.KAA01608@asmal.edh.ericsson.se> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Scart X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 292 Lines: 15 > >Guys... > > > >I'd like to get hold of a SAM-style SCART cable. Can anyone help? > > > > > >Justin. > > So, what's the problem? Simply go to the shop and buy a standard vcr scart > cable. No - as far as i remember, the SAM's SCART has a different pinout from standard SCART. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 09:32:45 1999 Message-Id: <005c01be80d0$21b6bed0$6c51c29e@dfi06.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Re: something different..... Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:25:01 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 385 Lines: 20 > >> Easily, since I don't use Outlook. ;) > >'Tis a Word macro virus - just don't open it with macros enabled. >(check mail header for stunning revelation) > >DMZ He? ??? A virus in mail? Really? Is it possible to infect Windows NT running on LAN? (I read mails in school on Windows NT.) I hope neither Sam Coupe nor Windows NT can be infected by these macro-viruses. Aley Keprt From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 09:38:54 1999 Message-Id: <00a501be80d0$bc933730$6c51c29e@dfi06.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Re: Gloucester April Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:29:21 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 516 Lines: 16 >Bob Brenchley wrote: >> Problem really is "when is SAM's Birthday?" >> >> Could be seen as being as early as September or as late as just a >> week before Christmas when the bulk of the first orders went out. > >I think I've still got my original Sam order confirmation card from MGT :-) >I can't remember exactly when I did actually receive it though, but it was >in the first batch from what I _do_ remember. This is nice, but I'm affraid I don't know what year are you talking abut. 1989 or 1990? Aley Keprt From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 09:58:25 1999 Message-Id: <017401be80d3$b5143dd0$6c51c29e@dfi06.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Re: Forlorn plea... Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:50:37 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 748 Lines: 29 >>I would be really happy if someone will convert at least teledisk files to >>sad/dsk (The Lyra III etc.). > >The Lyra 3 is already there in .dsk format. That was done weeks ago. I >know, because I did it myself. Great! But why didn't you anounced it? I think many people wait for Lyra 3 (incl. me :). >>(As you know, you cannot assign one suffix to several programs in Win32. >>And since Win32 is the main op.system in the world, we should follow its >>rules.) > >If everybody took that attitude, there's no reason to be on this mailing >list... Oooh, I don't think so. Why don't you want to follow basic rules and go against waterfalls? Win32 is here, so what we can do? (answer: we can do sim coupe for win32 :))) regards, Aley Keprt From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 10:06:47 1999 Message-Id: <017b01be80d4$bfce6830$6c51c29e@dfi06.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Re: Forlorn plea... Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:58:05 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1347 Lines: 39 >Aley Keprt wrote: >> (As you know, you cannot assign one suffix to several programs in Win32. > >There can only be one associated application to handle a double click, but >there's no reason why we can't use a shell extension DLL that adds one or >more items to the context menu when you right click on a .DSK file. We just >need to be able to recognise which files are for us - we can even have >different icons for both cases too. I have another idea. We can register DSK for Sim Coupe. And if SimCoupe consider one particular file as non-Sam one, it can call ZX32. >> And since Win32 is the main op.system in the world, we should follow its >> rules.) > >Be careful with statements like that! ;-) Personally I prefer Linux to >Win32, but unfortunately I work all day under M$ Windows and most of my >games only run under it, so Win32 stuff is just more convenient! You and everybody here and everywhere can prefer anything. But neither you nor I can change the state of things: Win32 is the main platform now. And I think it will be some years yet. Maybe Win64 (Microsoft's new platform) will change the things some years later, also Linux may take the market in the future. But now we should stay on the ground and support Win32. And I don't think I must leave sam-users only because I wrote truth. Or should I? regards, Aley Keprt From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 10:16:15 1999 Message-Id: <019001be80d5$cfcf47d0$6c51c29e@dfi06.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Re: Forlorn plea... Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:05:41 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1382 Lines: 37 >At 5:21 pm +0100 29/3/99, Psycho Billy wrote: > >>> How do you mean, "PD yet?"? Copyright will not expire, as such, >>> until 72[1] years after the copyright-holder's death. >> >>Sorry pedant ;-) - I meant has Colin declared any issues PD, and if >>not, why not? There can't be much sales volume in issues 1-50 can >>there? > >Well like I said, I think issues 1 to 12 are on ftp.nvg already but I doubt >there are plans to upload any more. It's all a very hazy area, but to >declare those FRED issues as PD would be changing the legal status of some >of *my* software. I'm not sure that decision would be in Colin MacDonald's >hands, not unless he'd contacted every author of every program on every >issue. I don't think so. If Colin MacDonald declare Fred issues as PD, they will be. If we put them onto ftp.nvg we don't need to bother with other copyrights, since we won't change the original Fred issues. If we only put them on the net, we will still have the original Fred issues. Or not? Although we will change the medium from floppy do DSK file, the software (and Fred's magazine is the software, not floppy diskette) will remain unchanged. It is Colin MacDonald's choice, whether he will want to 'distribute' Fred in DSK format instead of regular floppies. But I must mention, that I am NOT a judge, and everything I've wrote is only my opinion. regards, Aley Keprt From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 10:32:09 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Gloucester April Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:30:10 +0100 Message-ID: <000801be80d9$3b18eb60$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <00a501be80d0$bc933730$6c51c29e@dfi06.inf.upol.cz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 200 Lines: 8 Aley Keprt wrote: > This is nice, but I'm affraid I don't know what year are you talking abut. > 1989 or 1990? I seem to remember it being close to Christmas 1989 that the first orders went out. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 10:54:23 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E60@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: something different..... Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:59:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 791 Lines: 23 >A virus in mail? Really? Well, a virus embedded in an email. Ie, a macro that automatically runs as soon as you open the Word document. >Is it possible to infect Windows NT running on LAN? >(I read mails in school on Windows NT.) >I hope neither Sam Coupe nor Windows NT can be infected by these >macro-viruses. SAM, no. Unless, someone has ported MS Word across to it along with VBA (Visual Basic for Applications). WinNT, yes. Infact, any platform that runs MS Word with VBA macros enbled. As someone pointed out, Melissa is supposed to access the Outlook address book (which is also part of the MS Office now) and send an email to the first 50 addresses. Easy solution: don't read any word documents you didn't expect to come along. Or turn off the running of word macros. Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 11:01:32 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E61@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: SAM Scart Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:00:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 220 Lines: 11 >> So, what's the problem? Simply go to the shop and buy a standard vcr scart >> cable. > >No - as far as i remember, the SAM's SCART has a different pinout from >standard SCART. That is what I heard, too... Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 11:17:49 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SAM Scart Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:13:33 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01be80df$4ad5cae0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E61@mailhost.aculab.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 559 Lines: 17 > >No - as far as i remember, the SAM's SCART has a different pinout from > >standard SCART. > > That is what I heard, too... I remember trying a normal SCART lead, and I could see the picture but it was like the vertical hold was slipping - it just scrolled up and up (or down and down!). Anybody know why a nice standard feature like a SCART became non-standard on the SAM? Real shame that... Is anyone up to make a few bob from putting some working cables together? Maybe if there are more than a couple of us wanting them it'll be more worthwhile. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 11:43:55 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E63@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: SAM Scart Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:47:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 882 Lines: 25 > From: Si Owen [SMTP:si@wordcraft.co.uk] > >Anybody know why a nice standard feature like a SCART became non-standard on >the SAM? Real shame that... Probably to make a few bob for someone... (Like the use of BBC B printer cables instead of PC ones) >Is anyone up to make a few bob from putting some working cables together? >Maybe if there are more than a couple of us wanting them it'll be more >worthwhile. Agreed. Especially as more and more tellys and videos are becoming SCARTified... It might be worthwhile to put together some sort of power-supply without the TV circuitry if we are running out of the standard ones... Like what was talked about before: a regulated (1A?) 12v supply from somewhere connected to a little box that branches the power to a 5v regulator which both (12v and 5v) can be spurted down through a cable to a DIN plug to feed the SAM... Justin From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Wed Apr 7 12:21:07 1999 Message-ID: <19990407122107.A1385@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:21:07 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Scart Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: <199904070810.KAA01608@asmal.edh.ericsson.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: <199904070810.KAA01608@asmal.edh.ericsson.se>; from Frode Tenneboe on Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 10:10:53AM +0200 Status: RO Content-Length: 1066 Lines: 22 On Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 10:10:53AM +0200, Frode Tenneboe wrote: > No - as far as i remember, the SAM's SCART has a different pinout from > standard SCART. The outward pins are the same but since the Sam does not accept incoming video it has used the pins for various other purposes - so it's not a good idea to plug a fully wired SCART lead into it. If you do then one thing that will happen is you will send 5 volts through the video out of the other device. I guess it ought to be possible to buy a fully wired SCART lead and then snip all the connections which don't have anything to do with video. There is a wiring diagram in the Sam manual which seems fairly standard except that it connects CSYNC to both CSYNC input and composite video input - that seems unnecessary since the sam has a composite video output. Or get a lead which converts SCART into three phono plugs (stereo audio and composite video) since that's pretty much guaranteed to work as long as you have phono sockets on your tv/video (these are often provided for camcorder input). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 15:17:36 1999 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:05:58 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 157e" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 305 Lines: 13 > [snip] > > Did you really have to write this with no linebreaks?! ;-) Fecking Outlook, Fecking gateways, ARSE! GERLS! DRINK! DRINK! Any objections to me putting this as part of my Sam pages on the Net? Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 16:13:16 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Win32 SimCoupe (was: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!)) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:10:53 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be8108$d42f1750$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <19990407010330.B22674@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 2009 Lines: 40 Ian Collier wrote: > Does the Amstrad DSK format not cover this? (I don't actually > know anything about it, except that it is more complicated than > a straight dump of all the tracks on the disk.) I've not found any official docs for it but I've flicked through the comments in some ASM code that reads them, and it does seem to cover things like unformatted tracks, but I didn't see anything for non-512 byte sectors. I'll have a more thorough look for the format sometime. I'm not really up enough on snazzy disk protection methods to understand what's needed as I never bothered with them myself, so I'll have to have a play with some real disk. Can anyone recommend any demos or games that have use fairly non-standard disk formats? > Actually I think I just typed in what came into my head - I'm sure some of > the flag calculations must be horribly inefficient. Then again, there is > no easy way to generate them unless you want to rely on the host > cpu having similar flags which you can just copy. I think there's at least one emulator that gets quite a speed boost from doing just that. Unfortunately most ASM Z80 emulators can't cope with the paged SAM memory layout without having to copy up to 32K around when the paging ports are written to (which would probably be too slow if it was frequent, even copying as QWORDs!). They do direct memory accesses on a fixed 64K address range, which bypasses common (but slower) memory read and write routines. I was wondering whether the your current core would benefit from having the register pairs in little endian order so HL can be accessed without shifting and ORing the two 8-bit parts, so I might give that a try at some time - it can conditionally be compiled as big endian for the platforms that need it. I might experiment to see if anything else can be trimmed down, but I think the video generation eats so much (especially when large portions of the screen change frequently) that it's not worth spending too much time on it! Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 16:22:19 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:20:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000201be810a$1d5ef110$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <19990407005724.A22674@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 174 Lines: 8 Ian Collier wrote: > There are a couple of other things I have fixed since the code was > incorporated in SimCoupe. Thanks for those, I've made the changes here! Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 16:33:52 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:29:56 +0100 Message-ID: <000301be810b$7deed4e0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <002701be80cb$043c7520$6c51c29e@dfi06.inf.upol.cz> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1262 Lines: 34 Aley Keprt wrote: > I must notice, that the current SimCoupe's UI is a bit weird, and > I vote for a new Win32 interface. I hope Si Owen will make some classic Win32 stuff. I too would like it to have a nice(?) Windows front-end, so I'll see what I can do. > btw. I've tested the current Win32 version of SimCoupe (that one I've get > from Si Owen) and the fullscreen mode wasn't fullscreen, but just > maximized window. At some point I added a '-fullscreen 1' flag to the command-line options, but I can't remember whether the last version on the site actually has it (it'll be in the next one of course!). > I hope this is only alpha version. It was very alpha - don't trust anything you see in that version! > Of course, the current SAAemu version 0.50 is also possible to be run in > Windows 95, it depends only on Si Owen's skillness in including it in his > SimCoupe for Win32. I'll give it a go, but I've not had to interface any Windows stuff with TSRs before (I've done some 16-bit DLL to VxD through DPMI which might help). It'll probably need flat thunking back to 16-bit before it'll be accesible, so it might not be too bad. It'd probably be worth waiting and doing a 32-bit version to minimise the hacking and improve the efficiency! Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 16:38:46 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Win32 SimCoupe (was: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!)) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:34:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000401be810c$12266790$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <001f01be808f$70895680$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 338 Lines: 13 Simon Cooke wrote: > Nothing time-critical would be in Java - I mean, yeuck! - but I don't mind > having the overhead of C++ for a disk controller :) Would it need to be time critical? Wouldn't it be running in 'emulator' time anyway, so it'd only need to stay in sync with that? > Si (NSFMSFT) Hmm, wot's the abbreviation for?! Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 19:01:07 1999 by mailhost.pemail2.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 18:00:09 -0000 Message-ID: <370B9D2E.5B71028B@pmail.net> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 19:00:14 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Scart References: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E5B@mailhost.aculab.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 626 Lines: 22 Justin Skists wrote: > > Guys... > > I'd like to get hold of a SAM-style SCART cable. Can anyone help? > > Justin. well... i have one (i think), stuck over at my dads in liverpool.... if you want i can get him to post it here (or go and meet him even :o>...) and then post it on to you.... it works as far as i can remember ...only been used on a TTL screen though - but it came out as youd expect.. anyways... if you want it lemme know... (same goes for anyone else, though justin did bagsy, and i cant ignorr the rules of the playground :o>) martin -- Email: poohsticks@pmail.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 21:03:53 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001be8045$4c8bed50$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> References: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E5B@mailhost.aculab.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:23:52 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: RE: SAM Scart X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 809 Lines: 21 At 4:51 pm +0100 6/4/99, Si Owen wrote: >Justin Skists wrote: >> I'd like to get hold of a SAM-style SCART cable. Can anyone help? >Ooo, I'd like one too if it means I can hook it up to my TV (Sony)! Well, I just made my own. Not exactly difficult? The pinout is in the manual... Mine might not do exactly what you want yours to do though. It just brings out the stereo sound (pins 1 and 3, ground 4) and composite video (pin 19, ground 17) onto phono plugs, which I can then connect to my Mac. Andrew Currently listening to: Toto, Mindfields -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Apr 7 23:21:31 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SAM Scart Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:20:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be8144$d4349e50$4573989e@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <370B9D2E.5B71028B@pmail.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 390 Lines: 11 Martin Fitzpatrick wrote: > anyways... if you want it lemme know... (same goes for anyone else, > though justin did bagsy, and i cant ignorr the rules of the playground Better let him have first pick, or he'll only get some of his friends to come and beat it out of me! I may have a go at doing it myself - I can't imagine I can do that much damage if I get it wrong (or can I?!) ;-) Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 10:04:44 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E6A@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: SAM Scart Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:09:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 768 Lines: 24 Si Owen wrote: >Martin Fitzpatrick wrote: >> anyways... if you want it lemme know... (same goes for anyone else, >> though justin did bagsy, and i cant ignorr the rules of the playground > >Better let him have first pick, or he'll only get some of his friends to >come and beat it out of me! *laughs* Yeah! Yeah! Send it to me or I'll get my big brother onto you! :) Seriously, if you can, I'd appreciate it. If not, then I'll have a go at making my own (once I've found the box of junk that holds my soldering iron) >I may have a go at doing it myself - I can't imagine I can do that much >damage if I get it wrong (or can I?!) ;-) Ummmmmm..... Jut. (The guy being soothed by radiation from the three computers on his desk - luckily, one of them is turned off) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 15:45:57 1999 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:44:34 +0200 (MET DST) From: Aley Keprt To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: SAM Scart In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1291 Lines: 28 > Well, I just made my own. Not exactly difficult? The pinout is in the manual... > > Mine might not do exactly what you want yours to do though. It just brings > out the stereo sound (pins 1 and 3, ground 4) and composite video (pin 19, > ground 17) onto phono plugs, which I can then connect to my Mac. Well, I have made my own one several years ago too. I have connected coomposite out to my tv's composite in. That's all. And it works perfectly. Especially when my power supply is broken and i can see nothing when using regular tv-out. (can anybody help?) but now i would like to plug sam's out to the satellite receiver, which has regular scart. and what to do now? i don't know whether it supports rgb-input. if yes, this could give a bit better image than composite video, i think. i think it would be nice to get a diagram of the real scrat connector, and compare it to the sam's one. i hope many of us are able to make their own cable if we would know what pins to connect. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 15:56:31 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E71@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: SAM Scart Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:00:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1448 Lines: 36 Aley asked: >Well, I have made my own one several years ago too. >I have connected coomposite out to my tv's composite in. That's all. >And it works perfectly. Especially when my power supply is broken and >i can see nothing when using regular tv-out. (can anybody help?) Well, the SAM makes the composite signal on the main board. It then spurts the signal to the TV circuitry in the PSU which then converts the composite signal onto a UHF carrier which then goes down the TV arial cable to the TV. The SCART doesn't need the the UHF stuff so the compsite signal goes straight through. Well, that's my understanding of it all, anyway. Does the sound go with the composite (through the SCART) aswell? >but now i would like to plug sam's out to the satellite receiver, which >has regular scart. and what to do now? i don't know whether it supports >rgb-input. if yes, this could give a bit better image than composite >video, i think. My plan is similar, I want my SCART to go from my SAM into my video and than onto my telly. This is because (a) I don't have a SCART telly, (b) my SAM's TV picture is horrid, (c) my video has a SCART AUX socket, and (d) I can't be bothered to buy a new telly. >i think it would be nice to get a diagram of the real scrat connector, >and compare it to the sam's one. >i hope many of us are able to make their own cable if we would know what >pins to connect. Hmmm.. Cant help here, I'm afraid.... Justin. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:07:17 1999 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:57:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Aley Keprt To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks In-Reply-To: <000001be8108$d42f1750$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2417 Lines: 51 > Ian Collier wrote: > > Does the Amstrad DSK format not cover this? (I don't actually > > know anything about it, except that it is more complicated than > > a straight dump of all the tracks on the disk.) > > I've not found any official docs for it but I've flicked through the > comments in some ASM code that reads them, and it does seem to cover things > like unformatted tracks, but I didn't see anything for non-512 byte sectors. > I'll have a more thorough look for the format sometime. I'm not really up > enough on snazzy disk protection methods to understand what's needed as I > never bothered with them myself, so I'll have to have a play with some real > disk. > > Can anyone recommend any demos or games that have use fairly non-standard > disk formats? I can only recommend not to do this! If soomeone made a protection, he probably wanted us not to copy these diskettes. I'm affraid about copyright laws. In addition, it is very problematic to use nonstandard formats under Win32. Also, some features of Sam's drive are not compatible with pc's drive. it simply cannot handle sectors other than 4 statndard sizes. Since Sam can physically hanle much more sector sizes, it is almost unpossible to use protected disks on pc. if we would copy these disks to an image, we would need a special software for the regular sam. this is another complication. (of course, i'm very pesimistic.) > I might experiment to see if anything else can be trimmed down, but I think > the video generation eats so much (especially when large portions of the > screen change frequently) that it's not worth spending too much time on it! Yes, e.g. ESI's demos which use double buffering are extremely slow in emulator on 486's. but some other programs are pretty fast on the same 486. fortunbately, the eulator is fast enough on pentium 133 (or 166...) and better machines. when tested win32 vevrsion on p2/233 w/64mb ram & winnt, it runs quite slow in double size window. (20 fps+-) but this is probably the problem of winnt. maybe..... the dos version doesn't work on winnt (at least here), so i can't compare ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:07:20 1999 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:02:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: Aley Keprt To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: SAM Scart In-Reply-To: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E71@mailhost.aculab.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1635 Lines: 34 > > >Well, I have made my own one several years ago too. > >I have connected coomposite out to my tv's composite in. That's all. > >And it works perfectly. Especially when my power supply is broken and > >i can see nothing when using regular tv-out. (can anybody help?) > > Well, the SAM makes the composite signal on the main board. It > then spurts the signal to the TV circuitry in the PSU which then > converts the composite signal onto a UHF carrier which then goes > down the TV arial cable to the TV. The SCART doesn't need the > the UHF stuff so the compsite signal goes straight through. Well, > that's my understanding of it all, anyway. > > Does the sound go with the composite (through the SCART) aswell? No, composite signal is something like sound signal for headphones ;) It contains pure video with synchro-pusles. Since I have no audio input on that tv I've used (it was made in 1989!), I used only composite video out. > My plan is similar, I want my SCART to go from my SAM into my video > and than onto my telly. This is because (a) I don't have a SCART > telly, (b) my SAM's TV picture is horrid, (c) my video has a SCART > AUX socket, and (d) I can't be bothered to buy a new telly. That's exactly! VCR should be able to make a good PAL picture from it's scart input. The satellite receiver too (I hope). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:07:20 1999 From: Psycho Billy Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:00:05 GMT+0 Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <6E7E0009D@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 528 Lines: 22 > Johnna wrote: > > >> Took me a while to realise I wasn't Johnna Teare nor Lee Willis.. > >> :) > >> > > > >Eh? > > > The poster of the list, mixed with my mailer which decided to > word-wrap it all around the place, made it look like my name > belonged to one address and my address belong to another name... Ah! Formatted fine for me in Pegasus Mail - easily the best client > > Justin. > Peace, Love, Kisses... JohnnaPig Teare JPOL: http://johnnapig.webjump.com "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:07:21 1999 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:06:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: Aley Keprt To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Win32 SimCoupe (was: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!)) In-Reply-To: <19990407010330.B22674@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1208 Lines: 24 > > Z flag but left the other part of the expression alone. It's a great C Z80 > > emulator, and I can't see there being much else to squeeze out of it without > > going to ASM > > Actually I think I just typed in what came into my head - I'm sure some of > the flag calculations must be horribly inefficient. Then again, there is > no easy way to generate them unless you want to rely on the host cpu having > similar flags which you can just copy. > > imc Well, I have used another Z80 CPU emulator in my SAA1099 player. It is not 100%, but it uses very efficient algo's for computing flags. And it is platform independent. This may help. (it uses some really large tables and read flag values from these tables. it uses tables of at least 256 entries for each one state of the result, and the tables give fast solution for sign/zero/carry/overflow flags. i think nothing could be better than this.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:07:22 1999 Subject: Re: SAM Scart To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:06:10 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E71@mailhost.aculab.com> from "Justin Skists" at Apr 8, 99 04:00:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Andrew Gale X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 261 Lines: 7 I think I an was saying that most SCART input sockets don't tend to use the r,g,b signals but just use the composite video.... so if you wire a lead with the r, g, b, sound, and composite video signals connected, then that could be three wires wasted.... Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:20:17 1999 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:12:36 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: SAM Scart MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 157e" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1214 Lines: 42 > i think it would be nice to get a diagram of the real scrat > connector, and compare it to the sam's one. > i hope many of us are able to make their own cable if we > would know what pins to connect. The Pin-outs are in the back of the normal manual, and the tech manual but here are the pins. Sam's SCART is as follows: 1 Audio Right 2 SPEN Input 3 Audio Left 4 Audio Ground 5 Blue Earth 6 Blue TTL Out 7 Blue Lin Out 8 Red TTL Out 9 Green Earth 10 Green TTL Out 11 Green Lin Out 12 +5v Power In 13 Red Earth 14 CSYNC Earth 15 Red Lin Out 16 CSYNC 17 Cmp Vid Earth 18 +12v Power In 19 Cmp Vid Out 20 Bright TTL Out 21 GND Standard SCART is: 1 AUDIO Output Right 2 AUDIO Input Right 3 AUDIO Output Left 4 AUDIO Ground 5 BLUE Ground 6 AUDIO Input Left 7 BLUE 8 Function Switching 9 GREEN Ground 10 Comm Data 2 11 GREEN 12 Comm Data 1 13 RED/Chroma Ground 14 Comm Data Ground 15 RED/Chroma 16 Blanking 17 VIDEO/Sync/Luminance Ground 18 Blanking Ground 19 VIDEO/Sync/Luminance Output 20 VIDEO/Sync/Luminance Input 21 Common Ground Piccy of pins at http://www.btinternet.com/~krazy.keith/electronics/scart.html Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:27:57 1999 Message-Id: <001201be81d2$71388f80$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Re: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:14:04 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1430 Lines: 34 >> btw. I've tested the current Win32 version of SimCoupe (that one I've get >> from Si Owen) and the fullscreen mode wasn't fullscreen, but just >> maximized window. > >At some point I added a '-fullscreen 1' flag to the command-line options, >but I can't remember whether the last version on the site actually has it >(it'll be in the next one of course!). That flag does maximized window, not fullscreen!!! >> Of course, the current SAAemu version 0.50 is also possible to be run in >> Windows 95, it depends only on Si Owen's skillness in including it in his >> SimCoupe for Win32. > >I'll give it a go, but I've not had to interface any Windows stuff with TSRs >before (I've done some 16-bit DLL to VxD through DPMI which might help). >It'll probably need flat thunking back to 16-bit before it'll be accesible, >so it might not be too bad. It'd probably be worth waiting and doing a >32-bit version to minimise the hacking and improve the efficiency! TSR? What? SAAemu is not a TSR!!! Dear boy, wake up! TSR have gone some months ago. You need a 32bit DLL which will call 16bit DLL which will load the SAAemu to its DOS memory (<1MB) and call it in real mode. This should be possible under DPMI (Win16), since it is used in SimCoupe. Please look to SAAemu sources (in the SimCoupe 0.782a), and there you can see how does it work in DJGPP. In Win16 it would be the same. And Win32 must call this 16bit DLL. Aley Keprt From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:27:59 1999 Message-Id: <001b01be81d2$fd708e80$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Re: SAM Scart Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:18:00 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 353 Lines: 12 >I think I an was saying that most SCART input sockets >don't tend to use the r,g,b signals but just use the composite >video.... so if you wire a lead with the r, g, b, sound, and >composite video signals connected, then that could be three >wires wasted.... there would be more than three wires wasted, because RGB uses at least 6 or 9 wires ;-) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:27:59 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E72@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: SAM Scart Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:31:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 461 Lines: 16 > From: Dan Doore [SMTP:dan@armature.com] > >> i think it would be nice to get a diagram of the real scrat > connector, and compare it to the sam's >one. >> i hope many of us are able to make their own cable if we > would know what pins to connect. > >The Pin-outs are in the back of the normal manual, and the tech manual but here are the pins. >[snip] And which pins should be connected to which pins to get the basic connection (comp vid + sound) Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:35:38 1999 Message-Id: <004c01be81d3$e5d6ba50$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Connecting Sam to PC (was: Re: The State of things) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:24:30 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 573 Lines: 17 > Hi, > If any SAM user is looking for small hard disks then I have these: > 250 mb scsi 15 quid inc p+p > 80 mb ide - 10 quid inc p+p > 40 mb ide - small notebook drive - same Well, I would like to solve this problem by using my PC's hard drive on Sam. Is it possible to connect Sam to PC and use it's hard drive. It would be nice to have a parallel cable (as used in Norton Commander, or MS-DOS) and make a SamDOS which could cooperate with PC using this cable. Then we can make some 'server' on PC side. Is this already done or can anyone do it? Or any other idea? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:35:38 1999 Message-Id: <005301be81d4$527fce30$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Re: The State of things Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:27:32 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 484 Lines: 21 >>True... And so nice and easy to pop to when you live in the Netherlands, >hey >>Robert? > >but >1) could find out if they do mail order >2) had no idea you was in Netherlands >3) It just across the water >4) everyone need a holiday > >Chris > >Ps. Im not being helpfull am i That holiday may cost more than that hard drive :))) And what if I am not in Netherlands, but in Czechland? Should I take one of those B-52's flying home to Fairford from Yugoslavia over our country? ;) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:41:42 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:37:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2859 Lines: 77 Aley Keprt wrote: > If soomeone made a protection, he probably wanted us not to copy these > diskettes. I just want to aim for fairly complete emulation, which would include being able to (ideally) handle everything the real floppy controller can to cope with non-standard disks. I'm certainly not doing it to allow disks to be distributed, but to extend the life of the software by allowing it to be run on the emulator. Don't some demos also use strange formats to allow more data to be packed onto disks, rather than to protect them. Anyone have any samples? > I'm affraid about copyright laws. I'm no legal expert, but isn't it just considered a backup copy as long as you still own the original version? > Since Sam can physically hanle much more sector sizes, it is almost > unpossible to use protected disks on pc. This only goes to reinforce why I want to do it - it'd be a shame if owners of copy protected disks can't play them on the emulator. > if we would copy these disks to an image, we would need a special software > for the regular sam. this is another complication. True, but once each protected disk had been run through the conversion you're done. It could probably be written as a BASIC program with some ASM to drive the floppy controller to work out what it is - doesn't really matter if it's slow (and it probably will be). > (of course, i'm very pesimistic.) I'd like to be optimistic for now :-) > Yes, e.g. ESI's demos which use double buffering are extremely slow > in emulator on 486's. but some other programs are pretty fast on the same > 486. > fortunbately, the eulator is fast enough on pentium 133 (or 166...) > and better machines. I'll have to take a look. I tend to go by the frame rate that I get on the SAM copyright screen since it's having to do a lot of redrawing because the palette's being changed. Most things won't do anything much heavier than that - you can always use the frame-skip (if it's in that version) to keep the framerate up. > when tested win32 vevrsion on p2/233 w/64mb ram & winnt, it runs quite > slow in double size window. (20 fps+-) One change since the last demo version is to have the DirectDraw surface in video memory if possible, since it then allows the use of various hardware features including the blitting and stretching done for the display. A lot of cheap video cards still don't support them, but more and more are doing now (the S3 Trio64V2 in work doesn't, but my Riva TNT at home does). > but this is probably the problem of winnt. maybe..... If the NT display drivers support the features (and they should if it's available under Win9x) then it'll run just as well in NT. It's screamingly fast on my PC at home! > the dos version doesn't work on winnt (at least here), so i can't compare 0.78 runs on my NT but hangs the system when I quit it. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:49:18 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Win32 SimCoupe (was: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!)) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:44:56 +0100 Message-ID: <000201be81d6$c0b03370$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 517 Lines: 12 Aley Keprt wrote: > Well, I have used another Z80 CPU emulator in my SAA1099 player. > It is not 100%, but it uses very efficient algo's for computing flags. > And it is platform independent. This may help. Sounds good - I'd come across the look-up tables in another Z80 emulator and wondered about using the same thing - it'd be faster than the current comparing, ORing and shifting. Might be worth giving it a try, but making sure the table includes the weird undocumented flags that the current version does. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 16:56:43 1999 Message-Id: <00af01be81d7$4e7bcac0$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:48:53 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3839 Lines: 98 >Aley Keprt wrote: >> If soomeone made a protection, he probably wanted us not to copy these >> diskettes. > >I just want to aim for fairly complete emulation, which would include being >able to (ideally) handle everything the real floppy controller can to cope >with non-standard disks. I'm certainly not doing it to allow disks to be >distributed, but to extend the life of the software by allowing it to be run >on the emulator. If someone distributed copy-protected disks, he knowed that the life of that software is limited. :( >Don't some demos also use strange formats to allow more data to be packed >onto disks, rather than to protect them. Anyone have any samples? e.g. Some of my own disks do. So I have designed SAD format to support disks larger than usual 800KB. I don't know whether it works in SimCoupe, since I don't have any disks dependingon this feature. But if you put 840KB disk into PC drive and start SamBackup, it will automatically detect it and make 840KB SAD image. If it will work in SimCoupe???? I Don't know, I just use it for backuping purposes. You must try, and you will see. >> I'm affraid about copyright laws. > >I'm no legal expert, but isn't it just considered a backup copy as long as >you still own the original version? Possibly. But if the author really copy-protects the disk, he really don't want you to make ANY copies of it. >> Since Sam can physically hanle much more sector sizes, it is almost >> unpossible to use protected disks on pc. > >This only goes to reinforce why I want to do it - it'd be a shame if owners >of copy protected disks can't play them on the emulator. > >> if we would copy these disks to an image, we would need a special software >> for the regular sam. this is another complication. > >True, but once each protected disk had been run through the conversion >you're done. It could probably be written as a BASIC program with some ASM >to drive the floppy controller to work out what it is - doesn't really >matter if it's slow (and it probably will be). Basic? Forgot! You need to detect the format and then read the data. If you make the code which will detect the format, then you can simply do the code that will read one track. >One change since the last demo version is to have the DirectDraw surface in >video memory if possible, since it then allows the use of various hardware >features including the blitting and stretching done for the display. A lot >of cheap video cards still don't support them, but more and more are doing >now (the S3 Trio64V2 in work doesn't, but my Riva TNT at home does). Trio hasn't stretching ability. I have Voodoo Banshee(!), and it doesn't stretching. So you can speed up 2x2 screen, but you cannot use that nice interleaving. Didn't you write colour-interleaving is your goal? >> but this is probably the problem of winnt. maybe..... > >If the NT display drivers support the features (and they should if it's >available under Win9x) then it'll run just as well in NT. It's screamingly >fast on my PC at home! WinNT doesn't have accelerated DirectDraw. You cannot use any hardware capabilities in WinNT! (this applies to 2D,3D,audio,etc.) >> the dos version doesn't work on winnt (at least here), so i can't compare > >0.78 runs on my NT but hangs the system when I quit it. > Our NT stations hang when a program wants to switch to 640x480. This is common to all DJGPP programs, and possibly all DOS programs (I have only DJGPP ones.) I really don't understand why "so perfect" WinNT so stupidly hangs. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 17:02:48 1999 Message-Id: <00cd01be81d7$f5f99980$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: RT Clock (was: Re: Sam tech info?) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:53:35 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1150 Lines: 30 >Simon Cooke wrote: >> Oh, it's Y2K compliant; but MasterDOS isn't. Try and set a date >> in the year 2000 - the source code indicates that you're screwed :-) > >I was thinking that because it only stored 2 digits for the date that it >wasn't, but I suppose it's more of a case of any software that doesn't >handle it properly is not compliant. Anyone thought of correcting and >rebuilding MasterDOS for next year? MasterDOS 2000? :))) >I finally figured out your code writes values from 15 to 1 into the year >tens value and then read them back to make sure they were all set before you >take the clock as installed. I was supplying the current date/time but >ignoring any writes which failed your check. I've just implemented writes to >update the ticking clock it's happy :-) (it doesn't update the PC clock >btw!). This seems to be clever. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 17:02:48 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:55:40 +0100 Message-ID: <000301be81d8$406a2610$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <001201be81d2$71388f80$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 921 Lines: 25 Aley Keprt wrote: > That flag does maximized window, not fullscreen!!! It's actually more or less the same thing - the video mode is changed and I am drawing to the entire DirectX surface. That version doesn't disable the caption so it's still visible - if it doesn't actually maximise you can still click on windows underneath and move them around while the emulator is running (not anymore tho - I might have to release another test version to get you up to date!). > TSR? What? SAAemu is not a TSR!!! > Dear boy, wake up! TSR have gone some months ago. Oop! I still remembered it from being a TSR under DOS. ;-) > Please look to SAAemu sources (in the SimCoupe 0.782a), and there you can > see how does it work in DJGPP. In Win16 it would be the same. And > Win32 must call this 16bit DLL. Ok, I'll take a look - I'd be interested in seeing it working, even though it'll be replaced by a 32-bit version. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 17:10:42 1999 Message-ID: <001701be81d9$98c842a0$1323883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:05:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 680 Lines: 22 > I can only recommend not to do this! > If soomeone made a protection, he probably wanted us not to copy these > diskettes. I'm affraid about copyright laws. >From my OLD point of view is this , Win/Sim Coupe should be able to read these disk in REAL time , i.e not create images on harddisk or copy to another disk Some softyware of mine & Simons ECopy , which does copy ALL disks and could be used as a test etc But i must stress that you must not create Images , etc of Copyrighted Software as thats is ILLEGAL but emulation Original products is not And when can we see this?? Was getting simcoupe into VC studio and Compiling at 1 point but work and that Chris White From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 17:10:51 1999 Message-ID: <003101be81da$123e9ee0$1323883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <005301be81d4$527fce30$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> Subject: Re: The State of things Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:08:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 356 Lines: 15 > That holiday may cost more than that hard drive :))) > And what if I am not in Netherlands, but in Czechland? Same as before no mater what country your in > Should I take one of those B-52's flying home to Fairford from Yugoslavia > over our country? ;) But then you would be a missile :) Chris Ps. please note the light hearted humour type thing From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 17:20:31 1999 Message-ID: <003f01be81da$bbaa33e0$1323883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:13:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 847 Lines: 27 > > I'm affraid about copyright laws. > > I'm no legal expert, but isn't it just considered a backup copy as long as > you still own the original version? your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright owners permission. Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) > > Since Sam can physically hanle much more sector sizes, it is almost > > unpossible to use protected disks on pc. > > This only goes to reinforce why I want to do it - it'd be a shame if owners > of copy protected disks can't play them on the emulator. Please let it read them in REAL time , but not create IMAGES > > when tested win32 vevrsion on p2/233 w/64mb ram & winnt, it runs quite > > slow in double size window. (20 fps+-) Send me , I what to play? Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 17:20:32 1999 Message-Id: <010201be81d9$e4f23f00$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: Subject: Changes in SimCoupe Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:07:25 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1294 Lines: 39 -----Original Message----- From: Si Owen To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 7. dubna 1999 17:22 Subject: RE: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) >Ian Collier wrote: >> There are a couple of other things I have fixed since the code was >> incorporated in SimCoupe. > > >Thanks for those, I've made the changes here! > >Si Si, It is time to publish changed sources, to let we have an updated DOS & Unix versions. Please, send me the fixed sources, and I will publish new DOS version. (When Allan is out of time, I would do it myself.) Also, did anyone tested the new SimCoupe for DOS? Does the new SAA emulation work better in your Windows? I've got many mails when I published the previous versions, almost anyone said that it didn't work in his Windows. Now I've made a new version, and nobody sent me a mail. Oh, does it mean, that everything's running well? And what about soundradrs? Does anyone use my new Ultrasound driver? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 17:22:58 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E73@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Connecting Sam to PC (was: Re: The State of things) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:27:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1579 Lines: 34 >Well, I would like to solve this problem by using my PC's hard drive on Sam. >Is it possible to connect Sam to PC and use it's hard drive. >It would be nice to have a parallel cable (as used in Norton Commander, or >MS-DOS) and make a SamDOS which could cooperate with PC using this cable. >Then we can make some 'server' on PC side. >Is this already done or can anyone do it? >Or any other idea? I had a similar project on the go a while back. The idea was to have two shell programs, one on the PC and the other on the SAM. Actually, it was intended on being similar to FTP with file transfer and being able to run compatible programs on the PC from the control of the SAM. All this was to be over an RS232 link. The goal was to make a full remote control that would effectively make the SAM a DOS terminal. Why? Coz it seemed like a good idea at the time. Then, when I got a decent PC with UNIX, I'd write one that allowed my SAM to operate as a (text) XTerm - full UNIX access from the SAM! :) Then again, there's probably an easier way to do it in UNIX: I guess there's a way of piping all TTY stuff through a comms port and just using any old terminal emulator on the SAM. There was, however, a couple of minor set-backs: (a) I didn't (still don't) have an RS232 i/face on my SAM (b) I moved out of my parents house and no longer have a PC to continue the PC side of it all. in fact, I still haven't bothered to buy a new one. (c) Lack of time.... However, a MasterDos style front end to HDD access from the PC (via a server program) seems like a cool idea.... Jut. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 17:43:42 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:41:46 +0100 Message-ID: <000101be81de$b0cc1480$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <003f01be81da$bbaa33e0$1323883e@chris> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1024 Lines: 25 Chris White wrote: > your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright > owners permission. Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal > purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) Are you 100% sure about this? The +D interface on the Spectrum was fairly well geared towards transferring tape based software to disk, and that seemed to be acceptable. Is that any different from what is being done when creating disk images? It's always been quite a grey area in emulation... > Please let it read them in REAL time , but not create IMAGES That'll be possible under Win9x, but I haven't found a way to do it under NT without modifying the kernel-mode floppy driver (the source is available so that may be possible). Now I've got the hard disk emulation working I was even playing with the (dangerous!) idea of having raw hard disk access! It would allow the same physical hard disk to be shared by the emulator and and a real SAM with the ATOM interface. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 18:10:22 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:08:00 +0100 Message-ID: <000201be81e2$5b4df420$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <00af01be81d7$4e7bcac0$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 724 Lines: 15 Aley Keprt wrote: > WinNT doesn't have accelerated DirectDraw. > You cannot use any hardware capabilities in WinNT! > (this applies to 2D,3D,audio,etc.) It DOES still make use of features in the video driver that are done in hardware, even if it's not full hardware acceleration that's available on Win9x. I get a nice antialiased version of the image if I stretch 1x1 to 2x2 at home under NT, but get a chunky image and lower frame rate if I tell it to use the Hardware Emulation Layer instead. It may not apply to more complication 2D operations, but the same blitting and stretching are probably used by the standard GDI functions too. It wouldn't run my PacMan at over 200fps if it was all being done in software! Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 18:16:26 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Changes in SimCoupe Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:08:06 +0100 Message-ID: <000301be81e2$5e7328f0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <010201be81d9$e4f23f00$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 581 Lines: 13 Aley Keprt wrote: > Si, It is time to publish changed sources, to let we have an updated DOS & > Unix versions. Please, send me the fixed sources, and I will > publish new DOS version. Things are still changing so frequently that it'd be pointless doing a release now, so I'm keeping it under wraps until things have settled down more. A lot of things have been shuffled around, changed and even broken! Additional features like the clock and hard disk stuff shouldn't be too difficult to move over, but I'm not sure if the sources will ever end up completely unified again. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 18:17:49 1999 Message-ID: <008e01be81e3$875c8760$18c348c2@Enterprise.enterprise.net> From: "Chris Pile" To: Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:13:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 471 Lines: 13 >Some softyware of mine & Simons ECopy , which does copy ALL disks and could >be used as a test etc Before Malcolm's untimely death he informed me that E-Copy (version 3 I think) failed to copy the protection I created for Defender... I tried *all* the PC copiers I could find and they failed too. Perhaps reading 'real' SAM disks in emulation might be more trouble than it's worth??? I would certainly put quality sound emulation at the top of my wish list. Chris. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 18:25:48 1999 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:16:50 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: SimCoupe & protected disks MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 157e" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 315 Lines: 10 > I would certainly put quality sound emulation at > the top of my wish Aley - is your SAA emulator in a fit state (so to speak) to be included with Si's port - or does it need work to get it run native under Win32? Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 18:42:43 1999 Message-ID: <000d01be81e6$3a442c00$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:35:42 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1549 Lines: 38 From: Aley Keprt > > Can anyone recommend any demos or games that have use fairly non-standard > > disk formats? > > I can only recommend not to do this! > If soomeone made a protection, he probably wanted us not to copy these > diskettes. I'm affraid about copyright laws. But if you already own the software that has the protection on it, surely it's legal? (by the way, that was rhetorical - it is very much legal) > In addition, it is very problematic to use nonstandard formats under > Win32. Also, some features of Sam's drive are not compatible with pc's > drive. it simply cannot handle sectors other than 4 statndard sizes. > Since Sam can physically hanle much more sector sizes, it is almost > unpossible to use protected disks on pc. I don't believe that's the main problem; the VL1772-02 can only handle 4 sector sizes -- 128,256,512 and 1024 bytes. However, it can mix & match sector sizes on one track, and also can spoof address blocks; so that is more problematic. A program written on a SAM should be able to copy these disks though. > if we would copy these disks to an image, we would need a special software > for the regular sam. this is another complication. Already got it - it's called E-Copy 3. -- minor modifications to dump to RAM/a PC disk/a specially formatted SAM disk would be easy. Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation). ps. NSFMSFT == Not Speaking For MicroSoFT. [force of habit, I guess] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 18:46:55 1999 Message-ID: <001f01be81e6$96ea20e0$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <000201be81d6$c0b03370$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: Win32 SimCoupe (was: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!)) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:38:18 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 732 Lines: 19 From: Si Owen > Aley Keprt wrote: > > Well, I have used another Z80 CPU emulator in my SAA1099 player. > > It is not 100%, but it uses very efficient algo's for computing flags. > > And it is platform independent. This may help. > > Sounds good - I'd come across the look-up tables in another Z80 emulator and > wondered about using the same thing - it'd be faster than the current > comparing, ORing and shifting. Might be worth giving it a try, but making > sure the table includes the weird undocumented flags that the current > version does. > > Si Don't forget -- the cache comes into play here a lot, so tables aren't necessarily as efficient as you might think. PROFILE YOUR RESULTS!!! Simon (NSFMSFT) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 18:46:55 1999 Message-ID: <002701be81e6$e2df78b0$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <001201be81d2$71388f80$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> Subject: Re: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:40:25 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 843 Lines: 22 From: Aley Keprt > TSR? What? SAAemu is not a TSR!!! > Dear boy, wake up! TSR have gone some months ago. > You need a 32bit DLL which will call 16bit DLL which will load > the SAAemu to its DOS memory (<1MB) and call it in real mode. > This should be possible under DPMI (Win16), since it is used in SimCoupe. > Please look to SAAemu sources (in the SimCoupe 0.782a), and there you can > see how does it work in DJGPP. In Win16 it would be the same. And Win32 must > call this 16bit DLL. Ugghhh!!! Gackkk!!!! Argghhhh!!!!! PLEASE don't do it this way! For a start, the moment you load a 16-bit driver/dll into memory, Windows 95/98 slows down by maybe 25%, if not more, due to the added processor mode switching involved... Secondly, this probably won't work under NT. Thirdly... just ... ugh! :) Simon (NSFMSFT) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 18:54:23 1999 Message-ID: <003b01be81e7$3abbfea0$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <000101be81de$b0cc1480$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:42:52 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 950 Lines: 27 From: Si Owen > > Please let it read them in REAL time , but not create IMAGES > > That'll be possible under Win9x, but I haven't found a way to do it under NT > without modifying the kernel-mode floppy driver (the source is available so > that may be possible). > > Now I've got the hard disk emulation working I was even playing with the > (dangerous!) idea of having raw hard disk access! It would allow the same > physical hard disk to be shared by the emulator and and a real SAM with the > ATOM interface. I checked out... you can't do it without writing your own kernel-mode driver :) Not at the moment anyway. I was asking the kernel team some questions... seems it *MIGHT* be in NT5, but don't hold my breath. Not that many people want to read/write at that low a level, it would seem... Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 18:54:24 1999 Message-ID: <004701be81e7$ab16cfe0$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <008e01be81e3$875c8760$18c348c2@Enterprise.enterprise.net> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:46:01 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 937 Lines: 29 From: Chris Pile > Before Malcolm's untimely death he informed me that E-Copy (version 3 I think) > failed to copy the protection I created for Defender... I tried *all* the PC > copiers > I could find and they failed too. You have to remember that E-Copy was a perpetual work in progress :) > Perhaps reading 'real' SAM disks in emulation might be more trouble than it's > worth??? I would certainly put quality sound emulation at the top of my wish > list. Nah... we want to run the cool shit that we can't any more. [for "we" please feel free to substitute "I"] You know what's really annoying? You've just thrown down the copy-protection gauntlet, so to speak. And there's no way on this planet that I'll have a chance to participate. Best thing I ever heard was Mat of ESI telling me that it took him over 24 hours, non-stop coding, to crack the protection I wrote for Parallax. :) Simon (NSFMSFT) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 19:03:09 1999 Message-ID: <005301be81e8$110a8350$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <00af01be81d7$4e7bcac0$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:48:52 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 817 Lines: 27 From: Aley Keprt > WinNT doesn't have accelerated DirectDraw. > You cannot use any hardware capabilities in WinNT! > (this applies to 2D,3D,audio,etc.) Ummm... it does actually, but currently only Direct Draw 3. > >> the dos version doesn't work on winnt (at least here), so i can't compare > > > >0.78 runs on my NT but hangs the system when I quit it. > > > > Our NT stations hang when a program wants to switch to 640x480. > This is common to all DJGPP programs, and possibly all DOS programs (I have > only DJGPP ones.) > I really don't understand why "so perfect" WinNT so stupidly hangs. Because you don't believe in it strongly enough. :) It's only the display that hangs - the kernel will be going on quite happily :-) I suggest you get some new display drivers. Simon (NSFMSFT) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 19:03:09 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Win32 SimCoupe (was: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!)) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:57:17 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be81e9$3d6d5110$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <001f01be81e6$96ea20e0$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 524 Lines: 11 Simon Cooke wrote: > Don't forget -- the cache comes into play here a lot, so tables aren't > necessarily as efficient as you might think. PROFILE YOUR RESULTS!!! I completely agree - my Celeron only has 128K of cache but it's running at full clock speed (464MHz for my setup) giving it a nice boost. I did some tweaks that gave me an extra 20fps or so on the Celeron but that didn't make any difference on the PII. I'm relying on the copyright screen for benchmarks at the moment and watching how things affect that. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 19:03:11 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:00:35 +0100 Message-ID: <000101be81e9$b39593c0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <002701be81e6$e2df78b0$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 767 Lines: 23 Simon Cooke wrote: > PLEASE don't do it this way! For a start, the moment you load a 16-bit > driver/dll into memory, Windows 95/98 slows down by maybe 25%, if > not more, due to the added processor mode switching involved... I've quite a lot of thunking as part of my normal work, and it does take a fair hit if called frequently. We managed to get away with it for some 1284 comms by reducing the number of calls, and using bigger blocks. We'd need to call it at 50Hz for the sound which would be a big dent in performance - it'd be nice to see it working as a starting point tho. > Secondly, this probably won't work under NT. Indeed, flat thunking (32-bit to 16-bit) isn't supported, even if it will let you run it. > Thirdly... just ... ugh! :) :-) Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 19:09:36 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:07:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000301be81ea$9c1d5150$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <000d01be81e6$3a442c00$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 509 Lines: 12 Simon Cooke wrote: > I don't believe that's the main problem; the VL1772-02 can only handle 4 > sector sizes -- 128,256,512 and 1024 bytes. However, it can mix & match > sector sizes on one track, and also can spoof address blocks; so that is > more problematic. I'd agree with it being a problem to read raw disks on the SAM, but it should be fine for special format disk images. As long as you store information to the resolution the floppy driver can read you should be able to mimic any disk format. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 19:28:57 1999 Message-ID: <000001be81ed$5e226fe0$da6d883e@oemcomputer> From: "Tim Paveley" To: Subject: Sam Coupe Scrapbook - whats missing? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:30:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 579 Lines: 18 All, (before anyone else says it... Quite a lot) I've just got a PC at home, and plan to try and update my Sam web pages to the state they used to be (ie upto date). If anyone has any obvious information that's missing that I can add, would like to do a review, or anything else it'd be muchly appreciated. I'll even accept hard copy blurb if anyone has any up to date product lists I could use as reference (Since I only ever subscribed to FRED, and there haven't been many stalls at the last few Glos shows, most of my junk is out of date.) Cheers muchly, Tim ....@/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 19:34:47 1999 Message-ID: <001301be81ee$6cf13820$f733883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <000101be81de$b0cc1480$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:34:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2541 Lines: 59 > > your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright > > owners permission. Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal > > purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) > > Are you 100% sure about this? The +D interface on the Spectrum was fairly > well geared towards transferring tape based software to disk, and that > seemed to be acceptable. Is that any different from what is being done when > creating disk images? Building/Selling of a Interface that COPIES something is not a offence , if its main purpose is NOT to COPY copyrighted material , Here +D/Disciples where primarly , gives an alternaitive types of storage meduim that could 'PIRATE' software if the user wished. Back to the Gun thing as a cross reference , you can have a gun a Deternent but you are not aloud to shot it unless in self defence , but if the user wished they could kill as many peeps as they wish? All so called backup device are ILLEGAL , as they are promoted as a BACKUP device, read the back of most software today (Manly CARTS) , they state you can only us in the form they have been sold in. The grey area here is that the Sam's Doc's are supposidly Copyrighted , but the Roms have been givin freely from Dr Andy Wright, to be used in SimCoupe. And who knows who owns the Asic (MGT creditors I think?) Also there has been a court case for EVERY so called backup device , that has ever been released due to the copyright owner not giving there consent to having there property 'PIRATED' , and all have failed due to them being sold for personal use , so know they target importers and are succeeding There are LOADS of links to Web pages in the EMU SCENE , about copyright etc .. > It's always been quite a grey area in emulation... The grey area of Emu , is that to be totaly legal (Unless with Copyrighted owners consent) , on emulate something that you have not had direct contact will , i.e Never seen and found EVERYTHING you know about it by trial and error > That'll be possible under Win9x, but I haven't found a way to do it under NT > without modifying the kernel-mode floppy driver (the source is available so > that may be possible). Then worry about NT later , ( think Simon Cooke may object here :)) > Now I've got the hard disk emulation working I was even playing with the > (dangerous!) idea of having raw hard disk access! It would allow the same > physical hard disk to be shared by the emulator and and a real SAM with the > ATOM interface. Dangerous Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 19:39:26 1999 Message-ID: <001b01be81ee$acb81fa0$f733883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <008e01be81e3$875c8760$18c348c2@Enterprise.enterprise.net> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:36:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 614 Lines: 27 > >Some softyware of mine & Simons ECopy , which does copy ALL disks and could > >be used as a test etc > > Before Malcolm's untimely death he informed me that E-Copy (version 3 I think) > failed to copy the protection I created for Defender... I tried *all* the PC > copiers Interesting ?? Private Email me the Disk layout (What tracks are what) , just for my curiousity > Perhaps reading 'real' SAM disks in emulation might be more trouble than it's > worth??? I would certainly put quality sound emulation at the top of my wish > list. True , but unless you can read the disk sound is usless Chris :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 20:17:04 1999 From: davgw@clara.co.uk (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:12:17 GMT Message-ID: <370fff44.15034960@relay.clara.net> References: <008e01be81e3$875c8760$18c348c2@Enterprise.enterprise.net> In-Reply-To: <008e01be81e3$875c8760$18c348c2@Enterprise.enterprise.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 382 Lines: 12 On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:13:08 +0100 Thu, 8 Apr 99 18:59:51 BST, "Chris Pile" wrote: >Before Malcolm's untimely death he informed me that E-Copy (version 3 I think) >failed to copy the protection I created for Defender... I tried *all* the PC >copiers >I could find and they failed too. Have you tried Cyclone (using the cart) on an Amiga then? :-) Dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 22:16:07 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <019001be80d5$cfcf47d0$6c51c29e@dfi06.inf.upol.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:37:38 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Forlorn plea... X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1266 Lines: 32 At 10:05 am +0100 7/4/99, Aley Keprt wrote: [>Andrew Collier wrote:] >>Well like I said, I think issues 1 to 12 are on ftp.nvg already but I doubt >>there are plans to upload any more. It's all a very hazy area, but to >>declare those FRED issues as PD would be changing the legal status of some >>of *my* software. I'm not sure that decision would be in Colin MacDonald's >>hands, not unless he'd contacted every author of every program on every >>issue. > >I don't think so. >If Colin MacDonald declare Fred issues as PD, they will be. ... >It is Colin MacDonald's choice, whether he will want to 'distribute' Fred in >DSK format instead of regular floppies. Colin MacDonald can distribute FRED how he likes, including free-of-charge by anonymous ftp. This is not the same as declaring the software to be PD, which I still don't think he can do. I haven't signed anything which would allow him to change the legal status of any of my software which might be incorporated into FRED magazine. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 22:16:07 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <017401be80d3$b5143dd0$6c51c29e@dfi06.inf.upol.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:40:59 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Forlorn plea... X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 855 Lines: 26 At 9:50 am +0100 7/4/99, Aley Keprt wrote: >>The Lyra 3 is already there in .dsk format. That was done weeks ago. I >>know, because I did it myself. >> >Great! But why didn't you anounced it? >I think many people wait for Lyra 3 (incl. me :). I did... At 4:00 pm +0100 6/3/99, Andrew Collier wrote: >>There's nary a *.dsk file in sight. I can't find anywhere to download >>The Lyra 3 from in a format I can use. > >Alright... The Lyra 3, as a .dsk, is now in nvg's incoming directory. Frode moved it to a readable directory a few days later, and he mentioned that on sam-users too. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 22:20:25 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:52:05 +0100 To: "Sam users' mailing list" From: Andrew Collier Subject: DEF KEYCODE unhandled case X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 Status: RO Content-Length: 928 Lines: 23 As I think I've probably mentioned before, the MacOS compilation of SimCoupe has very poor keyboard support. There's no symbol shift, and hardly any of the "special" (ie. non-spectrum) keys work properly. I was trying to do something useful with it, and started playing round with the DEF KEYCODE functionality. It occurred to me to try this: def keycode 192,chr$ 58 Three guesses what hapenned when I pressed F0.... (chr$ 58 is ":", which you can put at the end of other strings to prevent a carriage return) Is anybody actually keeping a list of identified ROM bugs, just in case someone gets round to doing something about it at some time or another? Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 22:40:15 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990407122107.A1385@comlab.ox.ac.uk> References: <199904070810.KAA01608@asmal.edh.ericsson.se>; from Frode Tenneboe on Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 10:10:53AM +0200 <199904070810.KAA01608@asmal.edh.ericsson.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:27:52 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: SAM Scart X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 918 Lines: 22 At 12:21 pm +0100 7/4/99, Ian Collier wrote: >On Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 10:10:53AM +0200, Frode Tenneboe wrote: >Or get a lead which converts SCART into three phono plugs (stereo audio and >composite video) since that's pretty much guaranteed to work as long as you >have phono sockets on your tv/video (these are often provided for camcorder >input). It's not guaranteed - there exist wires which connect the phono plugs to the scart INPUT pins, which is of course the wrong conversion. In fact our camcorder came with a wire like this, as it has phono-type composite output which you may wish to plug into your SCART telly. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 22:45:00 1999 Message-ID: <001501be8208$c323b8c0$e635883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: Subject: Re: Forlorn plea... Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:42:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1274 Lines: 30 > [>Andrew Collier wrote:] > Colin MacDonald can distribute FRED how he likes, including free-of-charge > by anonymous ftp. > This is not the same as declaring the software to be PD, which I still > don't think he can do. I haven't signed anything which would allow him to > change the legal status of any of my software which might be incorporated > into FRED magazine. If you gave your contributions for free/cash , so that Colin could distribute on what ever issue of Fred he like , he would be entitled to distrubute Fred in any form he likes , even as a Image on a FTP. Also as you have Freely givin this your consent to have said contibutions in Fred for NO expliciate date or time then as long as its only offered in a FRED Issues (Disk or Image) , he may do/say and charge what he wishes without any consultaion from the author. But if , say you Contribution was taken of a Fred issue and put onto any other medium/mag or whatever that is illegal. Its what has been called a verbal contract , and as its allready on a Fred then LEGALLY its a Freds Contribution and you should always get a Credit Mention every time its used (This was stated in a Fred Issue?) Sorry about all this legal input at moo , but going thought same stuff with new venure @ moo Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Apr 8 23:17:12 1999 Message-ID: <006a01be820d$6ab539c0$4ec348c2@Enterprise.enterprise.net> From: "Chris Pile" To: Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:08:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 447 Lines: 14 >>Before Malcolm's untimely death he informed me that E-Copy (version 3 I think) >>failed to copy the protection I created for Defender... I tried *all* the PC >>copiers I could find and they failed too. >Have you tried Cyclone (using the cart) on an Amiga then? :-) >Dave I haven't. I'm not familiar with Cyclone but if it's a hardware device then it would probably manage to copy it!! It (my protection) isn't that complex!! ;-) Chris. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 00:40:49 1999 by mailhost.pemail2.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 1999 23:29:33 -0000 Message-ID: <370D0372.20BD1CD2@pmail.net> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:28:50 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!) References: <001201be81d2$71388f80$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 423 Lines: 17 > >At some point I added a '-fullscreen 1' flag to the command-line options, > >but I can't remember whether the last version on the site actually has it > >(it'll be in the next one of course!). > > That flag does maximized window, not fullscreen!!! i really no idea what im talking about, but it might be because your screen is larger?... martin -- Email: poohsticks@pmail.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 00:40:49 1999 by mailhost.pemail2.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 1999 23:29:41 -0000 Message-ID: <370D09A6.A864BDF9@pmail.net> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:55:18 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks References: <00af01be81d7$4e7bcac0$6b51c29e@dfi11.inf.upol.cz> <005301be81e8$110a8350$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1137 Lines: 37 > > I really don't understand why "so perfect" WinNT so stupidly hangs. and it doesn't even do it in style like the speccy & sam.... back in those good old days you got flashing cubes of doom.... now its just black.... at least back then you *knew* something was up (..bahh, when i was a lad etc... etc..) > Because you don't believe in it strongly enough. :) > > It's only the display that hangs - the kernel will be going on quite happily > :-) what a comforting thought :o)... though paralysed, its little hearts still beating... (put it out of its misery... its the only humane way..... grrr ) > I suggest you get some new display drivers. bullfrog suggested i did that so 'populous 2' would work... on a *new* computer i did... it killed my computer... moral of the story? dont buy good computers... >Simon (NSFMSFT) ...."not still fiddling my Sam for thrills" :o).... does this mean we can sue microsoft over any opinions you've expressed without writing that?? well, eveyone else is suing them, might as well get on the band wagon... martin -- Email: poohsticks@pmail.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 02:07:56 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:52:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 Message-ID: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 217 Lines: 8 > Any objections to me putting this as part of my Sam pages on the Net? Yes. If you put the list online, remove my email address beforehand. Paul -- Thought for the day: Bagpipes (n): an octopus wearing a kilt. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 02:07:58 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:57:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Message-ID: References: <000001be8108$d42f1750$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 599 Lines: 17 > If soomeone made a protection, he probably wanted us not to copy these > diskettes. I'm affraid about copyright laws. You're afraid about copyright laws, but you advocated putting Fred issues online?! Small hint: the authors of any programs still, as far as I know, own the copyright to any use other than the one on Fred. Si Cooke knows more about this than I do, but that's correct AIUI. Paul -- Civilization won't *die* from Y2k. It'll be more like Civilization goes out drinking and the next morning discovers the importance of drinking gin out of smaller containers -- Source unknown From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 02:07:58 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:58:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Message-ID: In-reply-to: <003f01be81da$bbaa33e0$1323883e@chris> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 503 Lines: 12 > your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright > owners permission. Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal > purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) Yers. My reaction to that, though, is "tough". Especially with Sam's extremely dodgy drives, keeping a backup copy of anything used frequently seems only sensible, copyright or no copyright. Paul -- Thought for the day: Concerto (n): a fight between a piano and a pianist. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 08:09:42 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:05:44 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be8257$63216090$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <001b01be81ee$acb81fa0$f733883e@chris> Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 696 Lines: 22 Chris White wrote: > Private Email me the Disk layout (What tracks are what) , just for my > curiousity Coincidentally I'd just contacted Persona about buying a few software titles to play with (I've hardly got any games!) and Defender was one of them. Sounds like a good challenge for some point - it'll give me a chance to learn about SAM disk formats. }:-> > > Perhaps reading 'real' SAM disks in emulation might be more trouble than > it's > > worth??? I would certainly put quality sound emulation at the top of my > wish > > list. > > True , but unless you can read the disk sound is usless Especially as most of the decent stuff probably comes with some sort of disk protection! Si From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Fri Apr 9 15:59:09 1999 Message-ID: <19990409155909.A18805@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:59:09 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> <003f01be81da$bbaa33e0$1323883e@chris> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: <003f01be81da$bbaa33e0$1323883e@chris>; from Chris White on Thu, Apr 08, 1999 at 05:13:25PM +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 605 Lines: 15 On Thu, Apr 08, 1999 at 05:13:25PM +0100, Chris White wrote: > your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright > owners permission. I refer the honorable gentleman to Section 50A of The UK Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992, which gives you the legal right to make a copy of software for backup purposes. > Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal > purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) Not at all. Having a backup means you are protected from data loss in case the original fails in some way. imc From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Fri Apr 9 16:04:14 1999 Message-ID: <19990409160414.B18805@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:04:14 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Scart Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: <199904070810.KAA01608@asmal.edh.ericsson.se>; <199904070810.KAA01608@asmal.edh.ericsson.se> <19990407122107.A1385@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: ; from Andrew Collier on Thu, Apr 08, 1999 at 10:27:52PM +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 597 Lines: 13 On Thu, Apr 08, 1999 at 10:27:52PM +0100, Andrew Collier wrote: > At 12:21 pm +0100 7/4/99, Ian Collier wrote: > >Or get a lead which converts SCART into three phono plugs (stereo audio and > >composite video) since that's pretty much guaranteed to work as long as you > >have phono sockets on your tv/video > It's not guaranteed - there exist wires which connect the phono > plugs to the scart INPUT pins, which is of course the wrong conversion. But I call that a lead which converts three phono plugs into a SCART plug, so if you get that then you aren't obeying what I said. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 18:18:14 1999 From: davgw@clara.co.uk (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 17:16:29 GMT Message-ID: <370e35d6.2527074@relay.clara.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 282 Lines: 9 On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:52:14 +0100 Fri, 9 Apr 99 18:15:42 BST, "Paul Walker" wrote: >> Any objections to me putting this as part of my Sam pages on the Net? > >Yes. If you put the list online, remove my email address beforehand. Mine as well please. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 18:32:52 1999 by mailhost.pemail2.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 17:31:04 -0000 Message-ID: <370E3998.F0C5ADF7@pmail.net> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 18:32:08 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 877 Lines: 19 > > your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright > > owners permission. Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal > > purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) > > Yers. My reaction to that, though, is "tough". Especially with Sam's > extremely dodgy drives, keeping a backup copy of anything used frequently > seems only sensible, copyright or no copyright. anyway... backups are only illegal when its specifically said that its illegal... otherwise its fine innit?... i mean, some software does say that your not allowed, but most doesnt - and none that i can remember on the Sam ever did.... having said that, disks protected with the special disk protection are kind of saying this implicitly - but it wouldnt be legally binding unless they said it explicitly... bear in mind, i know nothing. martin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 18:59:01 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:22:09 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: RE: SimCoupe & protected disks X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 757 Lines: 21 At 4:37 pm +0100 8/4/99, Si Owen wrote: >Don't some demos also use strange formats to allow more data to be packed >onto disks, rather than to protect them. Anyone have any samples? The only full-disk demos I'm currently aware of are The Lyra 3 by ESI and the Juggler by Codigo. Both of them use the perfectly standard 2x80x10x512 format. Most "recent" games use their own formats. ISTR some old sam-users discussion about Legend Of Eschan, whose structure sounded quite imaginative. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 18:59:01 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003f01be81da$bbaa33e0$1323883e@chris> References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:41:57 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2347 Lines: 54 >> > I'm affraid about copyright laws. >> >> I'm no legal expert, but isn't it just considered a backup copy as long as >> you still own the original version? > >your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright >owners permission. That's wrong, or at least, wrong in England (I think). Most of the things you'll find in the average software license agreement are unenforcable in the UK. It's protection by intimidation, the software company says "you may not do this, that or the other" and hopes that most people believe them, and don't it. But they also say "this does not affect your statutory rights", because they are not allowed to reduce the consumer's rights below a certain minimum threshold as defined by UK law. I'm almost certain that threshold includes making (but, of course, not distributing) backup copies. I'm absolutely certain it includes reverse-engineering and modifying the software, which is another thing these "end-user license agreements" tend to disallow. They might therefore try to argue that by doing any of this you are in breach of your agreement, but since you haven't signed anything there's no danger there either. A major distinction between the UK and the US, is that when a UK consumer buys a piece of software, he owns that copy of the program - wheras a US consumer merely owns a license to use that software (under just about whatever terms the software producer sees fit). > Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal >purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) Invalid analogy. You've never ever had a corrupted disk then? If it doesn't actually involve much effort, I will usually make a backup of anything I buy. That way, if my Sam decides to chew up my disk, I don't have to spend more money on buying the same program twice. Sometimes I will remove protection, like the one on SamPaint which just became tedious after a while (and actually only took me about 90 seconds to remove). But I don't distribute the copies. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 18:59:01 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1288441869==_============" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:20:01 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: SimCoupe interrupt timings X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.unit.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 5959 Lines: 203 --============_-1288441869==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" First of all, apologies for the attachment, but it's absolutely tiny and it might help with investigating one of SimCoupe's remaining inaccuracies. Basically, in one of the bits of code I've been doing recently I made a very silly error in the interrupt handler, which by fluke works on a real Sam but fails in SimCoupe (had it not worked at all, I would natuarally have noticed and fixed the bug straight away...) It seems my code was reading the status register, and jumping for LINEint correctly, but performing the wrong test for FRAMEints and jumping to the FRAMEint handler iff the corresponding status register bit was high. My guess is that on a real Sam, this would work because (after deciding that FRAME interrupts weren't interesting after all) the interrupt would still be active and the code would immediately jump back to 56, and do it all again, until eventually there comes a point when the FRAMEint bit goes high again and the interrupt gets handled properly. What we also found was that after a line interrupt had been properly handled, in SimCoupe the frame interrupt routine was being called. So presumably the interrupt must still have been active but the LINE bit of the status register had gone high. so... I wrote a little program to test exactly how long the interrupts were actually active for, and got a rather unexpected result. At a frame interrupt, this program spins round a little interrupt handler incrementing B for as long as interrupts are generated. At a line interrupt, B is stored for display and reset for the next frame. Load the code at the start of a page, and PRINT USR it. Press SPACE to exit. On my Sam, the result displayed is 3. So we're running three full times though that code before the interrupt goes away, which takes roughly 180 t-states (assuming, and I may be wrong, that the RET at the end of the routine never gets executed until after the interrupt goes away, and that jumping to an interrupt takes 12 tstates just like an RST.) On SimCoupe (MacOS, 0.72v3) , the displayed result is 0. Which is rather odd. Because it either means that B has never been incremented, or that B was incremented exactly 256 times which I don't believe. (The line interrupt has definitely been handled, because I can poke whatever I like into the initial result field, and it will be overwritten by 0). Have I missed something obvious? Why does it appear that frame interrupts just aren't occurring? Perhaps someone with the unix version handy can do some more detailed testing. Here's the source of my test program USEIX: EQU 221 USEIY: EQU 253 CLUT: EQU 248 LINE: EQU 249 STATUS: EQU 249 LMPR: EQU 250 HMPR: EQU 251 VMPR: EQU 252 ;constants ORG 32768 DI IN A,(VMPR) LD (VMPRS),A IN A,(LMPR) LD (LMPRS),A IN A,(HMPR) LD (HMPRS),A AND 31 OR 32 OUT (LMPR),A LD (SPSTORE),SP JP LMEM ;setup (run in section A for mode 1 interrupts) HMEM: LMPRS: EQU $+1 LD A,00 OUT (LMPR),A VMPRS: EQU $+1 LD A,00 OUT (VMPR),A SPSTORE: EQU $+1 LD SP,0000 RESULT: EQU $+1 LD BC,0000 EI RET ORG $-32768 DEFS 56-$ ;instruction timings from David Zambonini's article in BOAI ;ts is a "usable clock cycle" rather than the more conventional t-state ;not that it makes much difference here, since we're mostly interested ;in counting instructions executed in the border area ;at frame interrupt we do not save time on * instructions EX AF,AF' ;4 ts IN A,(STATUS) ;16* ts RRA ;4 ts JPLINEINT: EQU $+1 JP NC,LINEINT ;12 ts INC B ;4 ts EX AF,AF' ;4 ts EI ;4 ts RET ;12 ts LMEM: LD A,191 OUT (LINE),A ; set up a line interrupt EI MAINLOOP: LD A,&7F IN A,(&FE) RRA JR C,MAINLOOP ; this loop only uses AF ; so our interrupts can happily use everything else DI LD A,255 OUT (LINE),A HMPRS: EQU $+32769 LD A,00 OUT (HMPR),A JP HMEM LINEINT: LD A,B LD (RESULT),A ; store the number of loops round frameint LD B,0 ; reset for another count EX AF,AF' EI RET Good luck... Andrew --============_-1288441869==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; name="T1"; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="T1" =DB=A4=B82"=C4=A4=992=1E=C4=A4=9A2U=C4=CA=1F=96 "=99=CCs&=C4=88C=00>=00"=99>=00"=B81=00=00=01=00=00=9A=8A=00=00=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=00=08=A4=98=1F"[=00=04=08=9A=8A>=F8"=98=9A>=7F=A4=9C=1F8=98=DB>= =9D"=98>=00"=9A=88=1D=C4x2)=C4=06=00=08=9A=8A --============_-1288441869==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides --============_-1288441869==_============-- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 19:30:45 1999 Message-ID: <001301be82b6$fcddb6c0$7e31883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <370E3998.F0C5ADF7@pmail.net> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:30:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 899 Lines: 18 > anyway... backups are only illegal when its specifically said that its > illegal... otherwise its fine innit?... i mean, some software does say > that your not allowed, but most doesnt - and none that i can remember on > the Sam ever did.... having said that, disks protected with the special > disk protection are kind of saying this implicitly - but it wouldnt be > legally binding unless they said it explicitly... No , this is like saying you can do anything untill some says you can not. Copyright Law states that the Copyright owner MUST give consent to anyone wishing to Copy their work , the only way around this is to create your own work based on Copyrighted material , this was called plagurisam . But then again little Billy in his bedroom making a copy for his personnal us , is never going to draw attention to the law , untill he start sell/giving copies to other peeps. Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 19:47:19 1999 Message-ID: <002201be82b9$52d4f000$7e31883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:46:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3944 Lines: 91 > >your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright > >owners permission. > > That's wrong, or at least, wrong in England (I think). > > Most of the things you'll find in the average software license agreement > are unenforcable in the UK. It's protection by intimidation, the software > company says "you may not do this, that or the other" and hopes that most > people believe them, and don't it. But they also say "this does not affect > your statutory rights", because they are not allowed to reduce the > consumer's rights below a certain minimum threshold as defined by UK law. If you agree to a aggreement of any kind , (even if printed on back of software) you are bound by that aggreement. Take MR MICKEYSOFT , you have to open the box of Windows Nt 4.0 to read the EULA , at which point it tells you that once you have opened this package you have aggreed to said EULA. But then you will find the software inside another sealled package! > I'm almost certain that threshold includes making (but, of course, not > distributing) backup copies. I'm absolutely certain it includes > reverse-engineering and modifying the software, which is another thing > these "end-user license agreements" tend to disallow. They might therefore > try to argue that by doing any of this you are in breach of your agreement, > but since you haven't signed anything there's no danger there either. You are only alloud to use the item in the manner that it was desgined for , there is a consumer law from 1971 that states QUOTE - " You are entitled to a full refund , if said item does not perform the task that it was original purchase to do" , So you should never have to reverse-engineer/modify or copy as if it fails in work or opertate as expected you just get your cash back? > A major distinction between the UK and the US, is that when a UK consumer > buys a piece of software, he owns that copy of the program - wheras a US > consumer merely owns a license to use that software (under just about > whatever terms the software producer sees fit). > MR MICKEYSOFT , here would agree as his EULA , states this . But as a consumer you must use the product only as it has been sold to you and in the form it was sold to you. Big for instance , if you modfied a piece of software and then sold you machine (With all software as required by law) , then said modified software cause damage to machine who is liable? > > > Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal > >purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) > > Invalid analogy. You've never ever had a corrupted disk then? Yes i have and i have got a Full Replacement from the Publisher , Take my current cause , Roller Coaster Tycoon has a BIG problem with Daylight saving time , and I am supposed to DLOAD/Buy a Mag with fix on it , But I will not and have sent back to Publisher for a Correct Version , as its fawed. > If it doesn't actually involve much effort, I will usually make a backup of > anything I buy. That way, if my Sam decides to chew up my disk, I don't > have to spend more money on buying the same program twice. Sometimes I will > remove protection, like the one on SamPaint which just became tedious after > a while (and actually only took me about 90 seconds to remove). Then if SAY, some else took a copy of you unprotect version without out your consent you have help reduce money going to the author > But I don't distribute the copies. Glad to here it > Andrew Like i said before , this is my current grip with current employer about copyright of MY Code , when I have finished and HE wants it ALL (NO WAY MAN) Chris > -- > | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a > | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he > +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish > | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides > > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 19:54:37 1999 Message-ID: <003201be82ba$5b7b7ca0$7e31883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> <003f01be81da$bbaa33e0$1323883e@chris> <19990409155909.A18805@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:54:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1192 Lines: 36 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Collier To: Sent: 09 April 1999 15:59 Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks > On Thu, Apr 08, 1999 at 05:13:25PM +0100, Chris White wrote: > > your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright > > owners permission. > > I refer the honorable gentleman to Section 50A of The UK Copyright (Computer > Programs) Regulations 1992, which gives you the legal right to make a copy > of software for backup purposes. Hmmm, gonna have to do some hunting here , but if correct (apart from my arguement out the window) , why do people have a copyright in the first place that states my point > > Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal > > purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) > > Not at all. Having a backup means you are protected from data loss in case the > original fails in some way. But this is negligent on the end user part , and if its damaged on or around purchase then you should get a replacement. But i believe there is a Life span on Floppy media of 10 years ish?? (Some will correct me on that) Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 21:30:23 1999 Message-ID: <000401be82c7$ca331240$885008c3@persona> From: "Darren" To: Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:29:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id VAA15467 Status: RO Content-Length: 1437 Lines: 53 And just remind me how long it took to crack lemmings???? :) BTW - Don't forget that Defender is only £7.50 - together with two incredible other games! David L -----Original Message----- From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 08 April 1999 19:02 Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks >Thanks for using NetForward! >http://www.netforward.com >v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v > >From: Chris Pile >> Before Malcolm's untimely death he informed me that E-Copy (version 3 I >think) >> failed to copy the protection I created for Defender... I tried *all* the >PC >> copiers >> I could find and they failed too. > >You have to remember that E-Copy was a perpetual work in progress :) > >> Perhaps reading 'real' SAM disks in emulation might be more trouble than >it's >> worth??? I would certainly put quality sound emulation at the top of my >wish >> list. > >Nah... we want to run the cool shit that we can't any more. [for "we" please >feel free to substitute "I"] > >You know what's really annoying? You've just thrown down the copy-protection >gauntlet, so to speak. And there's no way on this planet that I'll have a >chance to participate. > >Best thing I ever heard was Mat of ESI telling me that it took him over 24 >hours, non-stop coding, to crack the protection I wrote for Parallax. > >:) > >Simon (NSFMSFT) > > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 21:30:23 1999 Message-ID: <001901be82c7$e8c6d480$885008c3@persona> From: "Darren" To: Subject: Re: Sam Coupe Scrapbook - whats missing? Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:31:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 989 Lines: 36 Weellll, don't you think it's time you subbed to Blitz?!!! David! -----Original Message----- From: Tim Paveley To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 08 April 1999 19:31 Subject: Sam Coupe Scrapbook - whats missing? >Thanks for using NetForward! >http://www.netforward.com >v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v > >All, > >(before anyone else says it... Quite a lot) > >I've just got a PC at home, and plan to try and update my Sam web pages to >the state they used to be (ie upto date). > >If anyone has any obvious information that's missing that I can add, would >like to do a review, or anything else it'd be muchly appreciated. > >I'll even accept hard copy blurb if anyone has any up to date product lists >I could use as reference (Since I only ever subscribed to FRED, and there >haven't been many stalls at the last few Glos shows, most of my junk is out >of date.) > >Cheers muchly, > > Tim ....@/ > > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 22:41:16 1999 Message-ID: <001b01be82d0$c46feaf0$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: Subject: Re: SimCoupe interrupt timings Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:34:36 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1237 Lines: 29 From: Andrew Collier > It seems my code was reading the status register, and jumping for LINEint > correctly, but performing the wrong test for FRAMEints and jumping to the > FRAMEint handler iff the corresponding status register bit was high. > > My guess is that on a real Sam, this would work because (after deciding > that FRAME interrupts weren't interesting after all) the interrupt would > still be active and the code would immediately jump back to 56, and do it > all again, until eventually there comes a point when the FRAMEint bit goes > high again and the interrupt gets handled properly. > > What we also found was that after a line interrupt had been properly > handled, in SimCoupe the frame interrupt routine was being called. So > presumably the interrupt must still have been active but the LINE bit of > the status register had gone high. [rest snipped] Err... we fixed that bug a few years back :) It was one of the first weird cases that we handled. Darren thingybob's Mosaic game or something like that had it. So Allan had to add in interrupt length timing code. And the code for that (from what I've seen) is absolutely correct... Soooooo.... dunno what's happening here. Simon (NSFMSFT) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 22:47:16 1999 Message-ID: <003101be82d1$5e6c1570$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <000401be82c7$ca331240$885008c3@persona> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:38:55 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id WAA16538 Status: RO Content-Length: 722 Lines: 21 From: Darren >And just remind me how long it took to crack lemmings???? :) >BTW - Don't forget that Defender is only £7.50 - together with two >incredible other games! ---- Weellll.... I kind of cheated on that. I just rewrote E-Copy 1 (the one that was specifically written to copy Parallax for Colin) so that it could understand the Lemmings format (which was based on one I came up with -- though I can't remember if I told Chris about it, or if he came up with it on his own). :) So, not so much cracked, as copied :) But it only took me 10 minutes or so :) Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation). From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 22:59:03 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:05:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Message-ID: In-reply-to: <002201be82b9$52d4f000$7e31883e@chris> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 399 Lines: 12 > open the box of Windows Nt 4.0 to read the EULA , at which point it tells > you that once you have opened this package you have aggreed to said EULA. Which was found invalid by at least one court, because you could not read what you agreed to before (implicitly) agreeing with it. Next? :-) Paul -- Why does the world turn? How can I stop it? -- Answers to a Few Common Questions, SCOhelp. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 23:21:44 1999 Message-ID: <000501be82d7$3d3add40$fe26883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:20:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2082 Lines: 50 ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walker To: Sent: 09 April 1999 20:05 Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks > > open the box of Windows Nt 4.0 to read the EULA , at which point it tells > > you that once you have opened this package you have aggreed to said EULA. > > Which was found invalid by at least one court, because you could not read > what you agreed to before (implicitly) agreeing with it. Next? :-) But I think i mentioned that the Software was in another sealed package (Disks in brown envolope , Cd in Celo Case). But that just being picky , my point is that unless you AGREE to MOST software nowadays , you should not be using it. And if the Copyright owner says DON'T BACKUP/COPY my stuff then don't , else you have just violated his/her rights , and as a USER you are not the OWNER! Take Nintendo they state on the back or their Boxes that their N64 Games should only be used in Cartridge for and inConjunction with a N64 , and no BACKUP may be made? But agreed that there have been loads of test cases on Copyright and the right to protect your purchases , but then we should all be making copies of our clothes (These do ware out / malfunction from time to time ) , Make copies of our hardware ( these do break down from time to time ) . But no we will not because it would take 2 long , but then again because it easy to do then it must be legal !. Or maybe someone out there wants you all to think its legal?? , Take Atari for instance , they stood by and watch every computer/console manufactor use the following with out any inclin of compaint -> 1) 9 Pin DWay 2) Hardware Scrolling 3) Hardware Sprites and a few others i can't remeber And then all of a sudon sued , Sega ,Nintendo , and a few others for violating there Copyrighted Designs and therorys , ( Mr Sam Travil brain waves ? ) and they one 10+ years after the fact . In the end Sega bought loads of Atari stock to get them to back down? My point is don't do what you think might be right , only do what you now is right! Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 23:45:13 1999 Message-ID: <002301be82da$7487f0a0$fe26883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <000501be82d7$3d3add40$fe26883e@chris> Subject: Copyright Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:43:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1061 Lines: 25 This is an extract from a online Law site >In many cases, unlicensed copies of computer programs, including copies that have been downloaded from >an IAP server, cannot be executed without an appropriate serial number, or unless the program is altered in >some way to bypass a copy protection device. Serial numbers and cracker tools are used by unscrupulous >persons solely to bypass such devices, and to make it possible for them to use pirated software. A person or >entity who makes serial numbers and/or cracker tools available to such persons, therefore, commits >contributory infringement, and becomes liable to the copyright owner for damages under the Copyright Law. Which surley means if you deprotect , or offer said deprotection to anyone else in any form you are liable? So if a disk has not standard form of information , and anyone but the copyright owner creates a program to read this they have broken copyright law? So making a backup , the use of software/hardware to do this is breaking copyright law? Or am i just imaging this? Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Apr 9 23:52:25 1999 Message-ID: <008001be82da$449fb030$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:42:37 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 734 Lines: 19 From: Paul Walker > > open the box of Windows Nt 4.0 to read the EULA , at which point it tells > > you that once you have opened this package you have aggreed to said EULA. > > Which was found invalid by at least one court, because you could not read > what you agreed to before (implicitly) agreeing with it. Next? :-) Chris is right; the EULA is in the box, and the software is sealed IN ANOTHER PACKAGE in the box, and it's this package that the EULA refers to. Don't believe everything you read at /. -- namely because 99% of the posters seem to be a pack of morons. Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation). From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 01:56:53 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:52:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Message-ID: In-reply-to: <008001be82da$449fb030$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 748 Lines: 16 > Chris is right; the EULA is in the box, and the software is sealed IN > ANOTHER PACKAGE in the box, and it's this package that the EULA refers to. > Don't believe everything you read at /. -- namely because 99% of the posters I'm not, because I didn't read this at slashdot. This was at least a year before the hype over "Windows refund day", and it *did* actually refer to a practice (mostly but not all by MS) of placing the agreement inside the box, and then stating that the user agreed by opening the box. It *was* held to be unenforcable. If you look around enough, you should find a record of it, somewhere. Paul -- Thought for the day: The only thing that hurts more than paying income tax is not having to pay income tax. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 01:56:53 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:54:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Copyright Message-ID: In-reply-to: <002301be82da$7487f0a0$fe26883e@chris> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 389 Lines: 11 > So if a disk has not standard form of information , and anyone but the > copyright owner creates a program to read this they have broken copyright > law? It depends on what the primary purpose of the program is for. If it's just for reading protected disks, yes. If it's as an all-purpose copier device, no. Paul -- The guy was killed shortly after he started to spam. -- Doug Palin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 01:56:54 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:51:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Message-ID: In-reply-to: <000501be82d7$3d3add40$fe26883e@chris> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1666 Lines: 40 > And if the Copyright owner says DON'T BACKUP/COPY my stuff then don't , else > you have just violated his/her rights , and as a USER you are not the OWNER! And if the packaging says nothing? > right to protect your purchases , but then we should all be making copies of > our clothes (These do ware out / malfunction from time to time ) , Make You have malfunctioning clothes?! :) > then it must be legal !. Or maybe someone out there wants you all to think > its legal?? , I don't know if it's legal or not. I suspect a reasonably good case could be made in court. The short answer is that I personally don't care if it's legal or not - I *will* make a backup of software which I use, normally, because I don't trust the drives in the SAM any further than I could juggle this computer. It's in the distributors interest for users to do this, if you think it through - if people have to return disks because they've become corrupted, even if you charge for the re-distro cost (which isn't going to make you popular), you've still got staff doing that when they could be more productive. > Take Atari for instance , they stood by and watch every computer/console > manufactor use the following with out any inclin of compaint -> > 1) 9 Pin DWay > 2) Hardware Scrolling > 3) Hardware Sprites > And then all of a sudon sued , Sega ,Nintendo , and a few others for I'm bloody amazed they managed to win on points (2) and (3), to be perfectly frank. Besides, if that's the case, why aren't Sega now suing every accelerator card maker? ;-) Paul -- Thought for the day: Book (n): a utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman. From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Sat Apr 10 02:25:10 1999 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:25:10 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe interrupt timings Message-ID: <19990410022510.A12934@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Andrew Collier on Fri, Apr 09, 1999 at 11:20:01AM +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 576 Lines: 13 On Fri, Apr 09, 1999 at 11:20:01AM +0100, Andrew Collier wrote: > =DB=A4=B82"=C4=A4=992=1E=C4=A4=9A2U=C4=CA=1F=96 > "=99=CCs&=C4=88C=00>=00"=99>=00"=B81=00=00=01=00=00=9A=8A=00=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=00=00=08=A4=98=1F"[=00=04=08=9A=8A>=F8"=98=9A>=7F=A4=9C=1F8=98= =DB>=9D"=98>=00"=9A=88=1D=C4x2)=C4=06=00=08=9A=8A Correct me if I'm wrong but this doesn't look anything like the code you were supposed to be attaching, and it just says "not understood" when executed. And your mailer transmitted it as text in quoted-printable format (as undoubtedly this one will). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 11:31:18 1999 Message-ID: <000e01be833d$34e4b4c0$a924883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:30:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2502 Lines: 72 > > And if the Copyright owner says DON'T BACKUP/COPY my stuff then don't , else > > you have just violated his/her rights , and as a USER you are not the OWNER! > > And if the packaging says nothing? > > > right to protect your purchases , but then we should all be making copies of > > our clothes (These do ware out / malfunction from time to time ) , Make > > You have malfunctioning clothes?! :) Okay , so they wearout just like disks wear out :) (But good cross refer HEEHEHEHEHE) > > then it must be legal !. Or maybe someone out there wants you all to think > > its legal?? , > > I don't know if it's legal or not. I suspect a reasonably good case could be > made in court. The short answer is that I personally don't care if it's legal or > not - I *will* make a backup of software which I use, normally, because I > don't trust the drives in the SAM any further than I could juggle this > computer. Thats find , but remeber that you MIGHT be prosicuted for doing so , and it will happen quicker if you sell/give copies to anyone else. > It's in the distributors interest for users to do this, if you think it through - if > people have to return disks because they've become corrupted, even if you > charge for the re-distro cost (which isn't going to make you popular), you've > still got staff doing that when they could be more productive. But then they should take ever care in producing a product that can only be damage by neglect > > Take Atari for instance , they stood by and watch every computer/console > > manufactor use the following with out any inclin of compaint -> > > 1) 9 Pin DWay > > 2) Hardware Scrolling > > 3) Hardware Sprites > > And then all of a sudon sued , Sega ,Nintendo , and a few others for > > I'm bloody amazed they managed to win on points (2) and (3), to be perfectly > frank. Besides, if that's the case, why aren't Sega now suing every > accelerator card maker? ;-) Accelerator card's don;t (To my knowledege) contain Hardware sprites or scrolling , but they do contain BLIT functions which 'COULD' used as sprites by the USER, i.e not the primary purpose that it was designed for! > Paul > -- > Thought for the day: > Book (n): a utensil used to pass time while waiting > for the TV repairman. (stolen from someone without there consent OOPS) Where do you keep getting these signtures from? And can anyone point me towards a VAST quantity of them (unstolen from someone without there consent OOPS) Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 11:36:32 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002201be82b9$52d4f000$7e31883e@chris> References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:41:36 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 5394 Lines: 116 At 7:46 pm +0100 9/4/99, Chris White wrote: >> Most of the things you'll find in the average software license agreement >> are unenforcable in the UK. [...] >>they are not allowed to reduce the >> consumer's rights below a certain minimum threshold as defined by UK law. > >If you agree to a aggreement of any kind , (even if printed on back of >software) you are bound by that aggreement. Depends on the circumstances. I don't think UK law courts will accept any sort of "implicit" agreement. For a start, you need to have installed and tested the software for a while before you can be certain that the software correctly performs the required functions. On the safe side, a contract which actually reduces the consumer's rights would have to be signed before it would become legally binding. >>They might therefore >> try to argue that by doing any of this you are in breach of your >agreement, >> but since you haven't signed anything there's no danger there either. > >You are only alloud to use the item in the manner that it was desgined for , >there is a consumer law from 1971 that states QUOTE - " You are entitled to >a full refund , if said item does not perform the task that it was original >purchase to do" , Hang about just a minute.... that law obliges the software company to guarantee that the program will do the job it was designed to do. It places no restrictions whatsoever on the consumer, who can try and get the software to do whatever he likes. > So you should never have to reverse-engineer/modify or >copy as if it fails in work or opertate as expected you just get your cash >back? I'm not sure I see what point you're making here. If I'd paid for a program which simply didn't do its job, I would complain until I got my money back. If the program mostly worked, but one little bit needed tweaking and the programmers were unwilling to do that, I might fix it if it were within my ability to do so. >> A major distinction between the UK and the US, is that when a UK consumer >> buys a piece of software, he owns that copy of the program - wheras a US >> consumer merely owns a license to use that software (under just about >> whatever terms the software producer sees fit). > >MR MICKEYSOFT , here would agree as his EULA , states this . But as a >consumer you must use the product only as it has been sold to you and in the >form it was sold to you. This is what Mr Mickeysoft would like you to believe, but if the EULA is unenforcable in a UK court - as most of them are - then I am not bound by that particular agreement. >Big for instance , if you modfied a piece of >software and then sold you machine (With all software as required by law) , >then said modified software cause damage to machine who is liable? What exactly do you mean? I know of no such law, that requires me to bundle software if I sell my computer. If I did include software, I'd have to include the licenses (many of which, incidentally, try to claim to be non-transferable, and that is also not allowed in the UK) and not keep any copies myself, but that is another issue entirely. If I did sell a machine including a modified program, then I would be distributing a modified copy and that would be breaking UK law. >> > Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal >> >purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) >> >> Invalid analogy. You've never ever had a corrupted disk then? > >Yes i have and i have got a Full Replacement from the Publisher , Take my >current cause , Roller Coaster Tycoon has a BIG problem with Daylight saving >time , and I am supposed to DLOAD/Buy a Mag with fix on it , But I will not >and have sent back to Publisher for a Correct Version , as its fawed. You're attacking the wrong question. Your copy of RCT was flawed, the software itself contained bugs, and the publisher is responsible for providing a working copy. A backup doesn't come into play here, because it would contain the same software, and therefore the same bugs. Let's say you buy a fully working copy of RCT. What would happen, in three year's time, if you accidentally scratched that CD, and it no longer loaded? The publisher, if they were even still in business, would be unlikely to see it as their problem and would almost certainly not provide you with a free replacement. If you wanted to play the game again, you'd probably have to buy another copy unless you'd previously made a backup, in which case there wouldn't be a problem. >>Sometimes I will remove >>protection, like the one on SamPaint which just became tedious after >> a while (and actually only took me about 90 seconds to remove). > >Then if SAY, some else took a copy of you unprotect version without out your >consent you have help reduce money going to the author This is true, and the publisher would in that event probably have a good case against me for negligence. I should take more care to ensure that the modifications are not distributed, because the distribution of the modifications is illegal. However, actually making the modifications in the first place, is certainly not. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 11:36:32 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001b01be82d0$c46feaf0$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:53:01 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: SimCoupe interrupt timings X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 3245 Lines: 72 >From: Andrew Collier >> It seems my code was reading the status register, and jumping for LINEint >> correctly, but performing the wrong test for FRAMEints and jumping to the >> FRAMEint handler iff the corresponding status register bit was high. >> >> My guess is that on a real Sam, this would work because (after deciding >> that FRAME interrupts weren't interesting after all) the interrupt would >> still be active and the code would immediately jump back to 56, and do it >> all again, until eventually there comes a point when the FRAMEint bit goes >> high again and the interrupt gets handled properly. >> >> What we also found was that after a line interrupt had been properly >> handled, in SimCoupe the frame interrupt routine was being called. So >> presumably the interrupt must still have been active but the LINE bit of >> the status register had gone high. > >[rest snipped] > >Err... we fixed that bug a few years back :) > >It was one of the first weird cases that we handled. Darren thingybob's >Mosaic game or something like that had it. Well maybe this is slightly different....? But these symptoms came up on the very latest linux version (or at least, that's what Ian _said_ he'd got installed) :) So I wrote that little timing program, which I've only been able to test on SimCoupe MacOS (which is based on the 0.72 unix version). From the symptom I'd seen in my demo code, I'd have expected the result to be a number larger than 3. But it wasn't - the result was 0, which I can't easily rationalize. And actually I wonder if it is manifesting an entirely different emulation bug. What exactly does the timing routine do on more recent SimCoupe versions? (see P.S.) >So Allan had to add in interrupt length timing code. And the code for that >(from what I've seen) is absolutely correct... > >Soooooo.... dunno what's happening here. The only halfway-reasonable explanation I've come up with so far, and which I haven't actually tested so it might be totally wrong, is that SimCoupe perhaps clears the LINE register after generating an interrupt (normally, if I send a valid number to the LINE port, the ASIC will continue generating interrupts before that scan line, every frame, until I tell it not to). For the timing routine, that would mean the value if B is only ever stored once, the very first time a line interrupt occurs. LINE is set to go off near the bottom of the screen, so we'll almost certainly get the LINEint before we get a FRAMEint, while B is still zero. B would then increment at the FRAMEint as we expect, but if there are no further LINEints then it would never get stored anywhere. Could this be going on? Andrew PS. Arrghh - looks like my mailer might have munged the code I sent last time, but I don't know if that hapenned on the way out or the way back in again... the file should be precisely 100 bytes long. If it isn't, you'll probably have to compile it youselves from the source in the email. -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 11:36:34 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002301be82da$7487f0a0$fe26883e@chris> References: <000501be82d7$3d3add40$fe26883e@chris> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:28:02 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Copyright X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1920 Lines: 51 At 11:43 pm +0100 9/4/99, Chris White wrote: >This is an extract from a online Law site > >>In many cases, unlicensed copies of computer programs, including copies >that have been downloaded from >an IAP server, cannot be executed without an >appropriate serial number, or unless the program is altered in >some way to >bypass a copy protection device. Serial numbers and cracker tools are used >by unscrupulous >persons solely to bypass such devices, and to make it >possible for them to use pirated software. A person or >entity who makes >serial numbers and/or cracker tools available to such persons, therefore, >commits >contributory infringement, and becomes liable to the copyright >owner for damages under the Copyright Law. > >Which surley means if you deprotect , or offer said deprotection to anyone >else in any form you are liable? No and yes, in that order. Nothing in that quote says it is illegal to deprotect software that you have bought. It's fuzzy, but it probably isn't illegal to deprotect software even which you haven't bought, although downloading it in the first place probably was illegal. It is illegal to distribute the deprotection to someone else. >So if a disk has not standard form of information , and anyone but the >copyright owner creates a program to read this they have broken copyright >law? No, it is not illegal to create the program. It is only illegal to distribute it. >So making a backup , the use of software/hardware to do this is breaking >copyright law? If you wrote the software yourself, then No it is not breaking the law. >Or am i just imaging this? Slightly discontinuous logic, IMHO. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 11:36:34 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990409160414.B18805@comlab.ox.ac.uk> References: ; from Andrew Collier on Thu, Apr 08, 1999 at 10:27:52PM +0100 <199904070810.KAA01608@asmal.edh.ericsson.se>; <199904070810.KAA01608@asmal.edh.ericsson.se> <19990407122107.A1385@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:31:04 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: SAM Scart X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1088 Lines: 24 >On Thu, Apr 08, 1999 at 10:27:52PM +0100, Andrew Collier wrote: >> At 12:21 pm +0100 7/4/99, Ian Collier wrote: >> >Or get a lead which converts SCART into three phono plugs (stereo audio and >> >composite video) since that's pretty much guaranteed to work as long as you >> >have phono sockets on your tv/video > >> It's not guaranteed - there exist wires which connect the phono >> plugs to the scart INPUT pins, which is of course the wrong conversion. > >But I call that a lead which converts three phono plugs into a SCART plug, so >if you get that then you aren't obeying what I said. Okay pedant. But it pays to be careful, because if you had one of each you wouldn't be able to tell them apart from the outside. They'd both just be wires with phono plugs on one end and a SCART plug on the other. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 11:36:35 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001301be82b6$fcddb6c0$7e31883e@chris> References: <370E3998.F0C5ADF7@pmail.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:41:58 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1475 Lines: 35 At 7:30 pm +0100 9/4/99, Chris White wrote: >> anyway... backups are only illegal when its specifically said that its >> illegal... otherwise its fine innit?... > >No , this is like saying you can do anything untill some says you can not. >Copyright Law states that the Copyright owner MUST give consent to anyone >wishing to Copy their work Oh no it doesn't, Copyright Law protects certain things in certain circumstances, and makes certain allowances. You are allowed, for example, to photocopy a few pages from a book. You are allowed to videotape films off the television (provided you wipe them within 30 days, or something). You are allowed to make a backup of any software product you buy, but you're not allowed to distribute copies. > , the only way around this is to create your own >work based on Copyrighted material , this was called plagurisam . > >But then again little Billy in his bedroom making a copy for his personnal >us , is never going to draw attention to the law , untill he start >sell/giving copies to other peeps. Making a copy for his personal use is never going to draw attention from the law because it is *not* illegal. Wheras selling/giving copies away *is* illegal. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 11:36:35 1999 Message-ID: <001401be833d$dba945a0$a924883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: Subject: Re: Copyright Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:35:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 849 Lines: 21 > > So if a disk has not standard form of information , and anyone but the > > copyright owner creates a program to read this they have broken copyright > > law? > > It depends on what the primary purpose of the program is for. If it's just for > reading protected disks, yes. If it's as an all-purpose copier device, no. But if the disk works correctly then there is no need to read for anyother reason, but if its faulty get replaced . Copy devices are Illegal and those in Hong Kong are being sought after to prosicute :) At then end of the day its Illegal to Speed but who sticks below or on the limit? , from my experince noone (Especially me :) ) , and when they catch me they prosicute me , so when anyone get's caught for BACKING UP software , we will see if they get prosicuted and it might be make an EXAMPLE case of said person. Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 12:12:35 1999 Message-ID: <001701be8342$e5ef54a0$a924883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:11:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 5952 Lines: 147 > At 7:46 pm +0100 9/4/99, Chris White wrote: > >> Most of the things you'll find in the average software license agreement > >> are unenforcable in the UK. > [...] > >>they are not allowed to reduce the > >> consumer's rights below a certain minimum threshold as defined by UK law. > > > >If you agree to a aggreement of any kind , (even if printed on back of > >software) you are bound by that aggreement. > > Depends on the circumstances. I don't think UK law courts will accept any > sort of "implicit" agreement. For a start, you need to have installed and > tested the software for a while before you can be certain that the software > correctly performs the required functions. If it states that by opening this you aggree to the following , then its upto the USER if they wish to proceed , If they don't aggree then don't use , or take your arguement to court before you open/use that way IF you lose you will have lost nothing :) Please see below :) > On the safe side, a contract which actually reduces the consumer's rights > would have to be signed before it would become legally binding. > > >>They might therefore > >> try to argue that by doing any of this you are in breach of your > >agreement, > >> but since you haven't signed anything there's no danger there either. > > > >You are only alloud to use the item in the manner that it was desgined for , > >there is a consumer law from 1971 that states QUOTE - " You are entitled to > >a full refund , if said item does not perform the task that it was original > >purchase to do" , > > Hang about just a minute.... that law obliges the software company to > guarantee that the program will do the job it was designed to do. It places > no restrictions whatsoever on the consumer, who can try and get the > software to do whatever he likes. :) BELOW No , the law states that you bought a (for instance) , a game and was told it would help you do word processing you could get a full (in whatever you paid in refund) , so say you bought a word processor that had a spell checker in it , but it only check for US syntac , you could get a full refund > > So you should never have to reverse-engineer/modify or > >copy as if it fails in work or opertate as expected you just get your cash > >back? > > I'm not sure I see what point you're making here. > > If I'd paid for a program which simply didn't do its job, I would complain > until I got my money back. If the program mostly worked, but one little bit > needed tweaking and the programmers were unwilling to do that, I might fix > it if it were within my ability to do so. But you need not as if you bought it for the slightly unworking part , you are entitled to a fix (if sold stating it does this) or refund . > >Big for instance , if you modfied a piece of > >software and then sold you machine (With all software as required by law) , > >then said modified software cause damage to machine who is liable? > > What exactly do you mean? I know of no such law, that requires me to bundle > software if I sell my computer. If you bought a computer then some software and you sold the computer , if it has software on it you MUST by law pass on the original etc.... > If I did include software, I'd have to include the licenses (many of which, > incidentally, try to claim to be non-transferable, and that is also not > allowed in the UK) and not keep any copies myself, but that is another > issue entirely. > > If I did sell a machine including a modified program, then I would be > distributing a modified copy and that would be breaking UK law. Correct modifing software is breaking the law :) (Would get the jury on that one) > >> > Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal > >> >purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) > >> > >> Invalid analogy. You've never ever had a corrupted disk then? > > > >Yes i have and i have got a Full Replacement from the Publisher , Take my > >current cause , Roller Coaster Tycoon has a BIG problem with Daylight saving > >time , and I am supposed to DLOAD/Buy a Mag with fix on it , But I will not > >and have sent back to Publisher for a Correct Version , as its fawed. > > You're attacking the wrong question. Your copy of RCT was flawed, the > software itself contained bugs, and the publisher is responsible for > providing a working copy. A backup doesn't come into play here, because it > would contain the same software, and therefore the same bugs. > > Let's say you buy a fully working copy of RCT. What would happen, in three > year's time, if you accidentally scratched that CD, and it no longer > loaded? The publisher, if they were even still in business, would be > unlikely to see it as their problem and would almost certainly not provide > you with a free replacement. If you wanted to play the game again, you'd > probably have to buy another copy unless you'd previously made a backup, in > which case there wouldn't be a problem. Accidenally scratching a CD is neglect on USERS part, if however the media fail (Which some cheap CDS do after a few years (I got some of my own that no longer work) > >>Sometimes I will remove > >>protection, like the one on SamPaint which just became tedious after > >> a while (and actually only took me about 90 seconds to remove). > > > >Then if SAY, some else took a copy of you unprotect version without out your > >consent you have help reduce money going to the author > > This is true, and the publisher would in that event probably have a good > case against me for negligence. I should take more care to ensure that the > modifications are not distributed, because the distribution of the > modifications is illegal. However, actually making the modifications in the > first place, is certainly not. In theory yes , but you have in effect , modify a Copyright product and it is no longer in original form, which is against the Copyright owners wishes and rights! Chirs From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 12:31:07 1999 Message-ID: <000901be8345$8fc6b8e0$a924883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <000e01be833d$34e4b4c0$a924883e@chris> Subject: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -> SimCoupe & protected disks & Copyright Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:30:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id MAA04683 Status: RO Content-Length: 1391 Lines: 34 Hmm, getting a bit carried away here but then this be my own thought and opion My wish is the a Sam Emu is a COMPLETE emulation right down to Floppy Drive Access, but what i don't want is it to create or beable to create IMAGES of disks that can then be transfered with out any problems or work as free as anyone would want to. To make a BACKUP of protected material , would invole some work and knowledge that 99% of the population would not be able to do , (They say my kids are in the computer age , but all they can do is plug a cartridge in :) ). So by one act of so called *NON ILLEGAL* (still looking for confirmationon this) act of deprotecting software and/or Hardware , one as made the other 99% of population capable of *PIRACY* , which is Illegal. As a developer of software , which a present is costing over £250,000 to write a product for 18months on PSX , and will have to sell over 80,000 copies to break even (Not taking into account the advertisment campain which usuall come in at another £500,000 ) , any form of BACKING up is going to cost me loads , and I decline to authorize ANYONE to make a COPY of my software. @ the end of the day proceeds of cash you buy software go as follows 40% -> Shop 10-20% -> First Party (Nintendo,Sega,Sony etc.) 5% -> Distrubutor (From Publihser to Shop) 2% -> Developer The rest goes to Publisher and License agreements Chris > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 15:00:30 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SimCoupe interrupt timings Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:58:35 +0100 Message-ID: <000501be835a$3a07af30$4573989e@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <19990410022510.A12934@comlab.ox.ac.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1417 Lines: 35 Ian Collier wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong but this doesn't look anything like the code you > were supposed to be attaching, and it just says "not understood" when > executed. Yeah, I saved it from Outlook, viewed it as binary and it started like this... DB A4 B8 32 22 C4 A4 99 32 1E C4 A4 9A 32 55 C4 ... which doesn't look like valid Z80 code, even ignoring the CRLF at the end! On a related matter, I'm a bit confused by how the t-state timings in the Z80 core are calculated. Most are what I expect, but some don't match the official timings I'm used to. e.g. LD r,r' says 8 t-states, but the docs I have say it's 7. JR c,e takes 8 t-states if the condition is not met and 12 if it is, but the docs I have say it's 7 and 13 respectively. etc. Could someone explain the 4 t-state rounding? (machine cycles?) I could understand it being rounded up, but the conditional relative jump is slightly shorter. I've always done video effects with official timings, and manual tweaks if necessary! Coincidentally I spent a couple of hours this morning going through code putting the offical values in to see whether it made any difference with a couple of programs I've got that are suffering from minor timing problems. I'm not quite finished so I haven't tried it yet. I'm now wondering whether I should have bothered doing it as it might not be any use - they're probably like that for a good reason! Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 15:16:45 1999 From: davgw@clara.co.uk (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Copyright Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:13:59 GMT Message-ID: <370f50c1.6651414@relay.clara.net> References: <000501be82d7$3d3add40$fe26883e@chris> <002301be82da$7487f0a0$fe26883e@chris> In-Reply-To: <002301be82da$7487f0a0$fe26883e@chris> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1455 Lines: 27 My view is that it is now impossible for anyone to control piracy. It's so wide-spread now with CDR (people copying playstation games, CD-ROM, music, etc), web and ftp sites (offering cracks, etc.), that it's only a matter of time before the laws will need to be looked at again - and changed in relation to how ineffective they are. Stealing music or program/data, where the product isn't tangible, isn't viewed by the average person as being the same as someone nicking a touchy/feely object like a loaf of bread. If people have their own media/storage - blank tape/CD, then they get the feeling that they can put anything they want on it. They're very unlikely to get caught and.. shrug.. you know the rest. Look at the sales of blank CD recordable discs now. They're selling millions at computer fairs every week. When I first started attending them (about ten years ago), the punters were generally the archetypal nerdy anorak/intellectual sort. Nowadays, I see gangs of lads who would look more at home fighting outside a football ground - haggling with traders to see how much discount they can get for a few thousand blank CDs. And I see boxes upon boxes of CD recorders for sale, often made by the same people who sell software and music. I didn't realise that there was *so* much copyright-free music/data around! The question is this: where's it all going to end, eh? Dave (neither moralising or cocking a snoot at the people who 'suffer') From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 15:57:26 1999 From: davgw@clara.co.uk (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -> SimCoupe & protected disks & Copyright Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:55:30 GMT Message-ID: <37116603.12094264@relay.clara.net> References: <000e01be833d$34e4b4c0$a924883e@chris> <000901be8345$8fc6b8e0$a924883e@chris> In-Reply-To: <000901be8345$8fc6b8e0$a924883e@chris> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id PAA06700 Status: RO Content-Length: 615 Lines: 21 On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:30:22 +0100 Sat, 10 Apr 99 13:02:03 BST, "Chris White" wrote: >As a developer of software , which a present is costing over £250,000 to >write a product for 18months on PSX , and will have to sell over 80,000 Look for a safer platform to write for Chris! Every kid around here has a 'chipped' station. >@ the end of the day proceeds of cash you buy software go as follows >40% -> Shop >10-20% -> First Party (Nintendo,Sega,Sony etc.) >5% -> Distrubutor (From Publihser to Shop) >2% -> Developer Sad, isnit? Dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 17:35:50 1999 by mailhost.pemail2.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 1999 16:34:05 -0000 Message-ID: <370E6B37.7B3136C7@pmail.net> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:03:51 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> <002201be82b9$52d4f000$7e31883e@chris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 913 Lines: 23 > If you agree to a aggreement of any kind , (even if printed on back of > software) you are bound by that aggreement. Take MR MICKEYSOFT , you have to > open the box of Windows Nt 4.0 to read the EULA , at which point it tells > you that once you have opened this package you have aggreed to said EULA. > But then you will find the software inside another sealled package! the microsoft end user license agreement thingamajiggies arent legally binding though... until you install and software (at which point it gives you another one... which isnt particularly legally binding either)... unless you actively 'agree' to the agreement its not an agreement, and is meaningless (clicking i agree counts, opening the package doesn't... since you werent given the agreement before hand)... what a peculiar thread this has turned into martin -- Email: poohsticks@pmail.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 17:35:51 1999 by mailhost.pemail2.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 1999 16:34:01 -0000 Message-ID: <370E6909.2E65FF9@pmail.net> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 21:54:33 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1598 Lines: 37 > I'm almost certain that threshold includes making (but, of course, not > distributing) backup copies. im pretty sure that thats the case... i've heard it said so many times anyways :O)... it only makes sense... and i guess that (as you said) you own the actual program, its up to you what you do with it then... copying it onto another disk included.... distributing is another matter, since your not a licensed outlet for that company (and youd lose them money :o) > I'm absolutely certain it includes > reverse-engineering and modifying the software, which is another thing really?... had no idea you could.... not that i have, or ever really been in the mood to... or ever been in the mood to and thought "oh no, i cant, its naughty"... > If it doesn't actually involve much effort, I will usually make a backup of > anything I buy. That way, if my Sam decides to chew up my disk, I don't > have to spend more money on buying the same program twice. Sometimes I will > remove protection, like the one on SamPaint which just became tedious after > a while (and actually only took me about 90 seconds to remove). it was an 'interesting' protection, which basically amounted to stopping anyone who couldnt program in basic (or didnt look) from getting rid of it... thought it was quite funny when i found out - especially considering id been looking-for and typing in the words for a month or so.... with other things (on other computers) where you couldnt do that, i just ended up memorising it anyway.... :o) martin -- Email: poohsticks@pmail.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 17:35:51 1999 by mailhost.pemail2.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 1999 16:34:10 -0000 Message-ID: <370E6BFC.D62AC32A@pmail.net> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:07:08 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> <003f01be81da$bbaa33e0$1323883e@chris> <19990409155909.A18805@comlab.ox.ac.uk> <003201be82ba$5b7b7ca0$7e31883e@chris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1035 Lines: 30 > > > On Thu, Apr 08, 1999 at 05:13:25PM +0100, Chris White wrote: > > > your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright > > > owners permission. > > > > I refer the honorable gentleman to Section 50A of The UK Copyright > (Computer > > Programs) Regulations 1992, which gives you the legal right to make a copy > > of software for backup purposes. > > Hmmm, gonna have to do some hunting here , but if correct (apart from my > arguement out the window) , why do people have a copyright in the first > place that states my point its to stop people copying it for commercial purposes.... backup copies aren't going to be sold/distributed (legally)... if you sell it or distribute it, your breaking copyright.... if you dont, your not... i think you allowed one copy thats all (could be wrong there).... its sort of like.. when you buy the software you buy a 'theoretical' backup too.. its up to you if you want to make it real martin -- Email: poohsticks@pmail.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 22:32:41 1999 Message-ID: <000b01be8399$8bbb5ea0$a538883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <000e01be833d$34e4b4c0$a924883e@chris> <000901be8345$8fc6b8e0$a924883e@chris> <37116603.12094264@relay.clara.net> Subject: Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -> SimCoupe & protected disks & Copyright Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:31:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 541 Lines: 22 > Look for a safer platform to write for Chris! > Every kid around here has a 'chipped' station. But if someone had not reverse engineered the PSX , then these kid (That could not do it themselves) would not have a CHIPPED psx , but then things are not That bad , but they could be better >@ the end of the day proceeds of cash you buy software go as follows >40% -> Shop >10-20% -> First Party (Nintendo,Sega,Sony etc.) >5% -> Distrubutor (From Publihser to Shop) >2% -> Developer >Sad, isnit? Yep , Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 22:51:17 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990410022510.A12934@comlab.ox.ac.uk> References: ; from Andrew Collier on Fri, Apr 09, 1999 at 11:20:01AM +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:02:29 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: SimCoupe interrupt timings X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id WAA10651 Status: RO Content-Length: 995 Lines: 34 At 2:25 am +0100 10/4/99, Ian Collier wrote: >On Fri, Apr 09, 1999 at 11:20:01AM +0100, Andrew Collier wrote: > >> Û¤¸2"Ĥ™2Ĥš2UÄÊ– >> "™Ìs&ĈC >Correct me if I'm wrong but this doesn't look anything like the code you >were supposed to be attaching, and it just says "not understood" when >executed. And your mailer transmitted it as text in quoted-printable format >(as undoubtedly this one will). It appears so. Perhaps I'll have more success if I send a hex dump... F3DB FC32 2280 DBFA 321E 80DB FB32 5580 E61F F620 D3FA ED73 2680 C343 003E 00D3 FA3E 00D3 FC31 0000 0100 00FB C900 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 08DB F91F D25B 0004 08FB C93E BFD3 F9FB 3E7F DBFE 1F38 F9F3 3EFF D3F9 3E00 D3FB C31D 8078 3229 8006 0008 FBC9 Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Apr 10 22:58:33 1999 From: "Maria Rookyard" To: "SAM Users Mailing List" Subject: Re: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:50:06 +0100 Message-ID: <01be839c$19275ee0$LocalHost@register> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 626 Lines: 26 Why the compulsion to keep putting a list of addresses up anyway? None of the other lists I'm on ever "outs" people like this one does! Maria. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Whitmore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 09 April 1999 18:17 Subject: Re: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:52:14 +0100 Fri, 9 Apr 99 18:15:42 BST, "Paul Walker" wrote: >> Any objections to me putting this as part of my Sam pages on the Net? > >Yes. If you put the list online, remove my email address beforehand. Mine as well please. From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Sat Apr 10 23:51:22 1999 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:51:22 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe interrupt timings Message-ID: <19990410235122.C27955@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: <001b01be82d0$c46feaf0$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Andrew Collier on Sat, Apr 10, 1999 at 01:53:01AM +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 444 Lines: 10 On Sat, Apr 10, 1999 at 01:53:01AM +0100, Andrew Collier wrote: > Well maybe this is slightly different....? But these symptoms came up on > the very latest linux version (or at least, that's what Ian _said_ he'd got > installed) :) I said nothing of the sort. I have version 0.72 which is rather old (although a quick check at Allan's web page didn't turn up anything more recent). It says "0", by the way. Thanks for the hex dump. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 03:42:20 1999 Message-ID: <002901be83c3$e2017400$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <001401be833d$dba945a0$a924883e@chris> Subject: Re: Copyright Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:34:53 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 423 Lines: 13 From: Chris White > At then end of the day its Illegal to Speed but who sticks below or on the > limit? , from my experince noone (Especially me :) ) , and when they catch > me they prosicute me And I know for a fact that it's very hard to catch Chris :) Hey.. Chris? Maybe this is the right time to unleash your planned changes to the motorway system on sam-users? :) Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 03:53:51 1999 Message-ID: <003701be83c5$51d4d050$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <000e01be833d$34e4b4c0$a924883e@chris> <000901be8345$8fc6b8e0$a924883e@chris> Subject: Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -> SimCoupe & protected disks & Copyright Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:45:10 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id DAA23465 Status: RO Content-Length: 793 Lines: 19 From: Chris White >As a developer of software , which a present is costing over £250,000 to >write a product for 18months on PSX , and will have to sell over 80,000 >copies to break even (Not taking into account the advertisment campain which >usuall come in at another £500,000 ) , any form of BACKING up is going to >cost me loads , and I decline to authorize ANYONE to make a COPY of my >software. Speaking as another software dev guy, I agree totally... EXCEPT in the case of magnetic media, which needs to be backed up by the end user -- but piracy should still be illegal. CD's are much more durable, and as such, don't have this limitation. Also: OIDS on the ST. Mirrorsoft went bust. No backup copy. Bugger. No Oids. Simon (NSFMSFT) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 10:00:29 1999 Message-ID: <002601be83f9$e0db0ce0$403a883e@oemcomputer> From: "Tim Paveley" To: Subject: Re: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:01:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 349 Lines: 11 Please remove my name too! (besides, it's already changed ;-) As an aside, I wouldn't have noticed this had I not wondered why there were so many follow-ups :-) >Why the compulsion to keep putting a list of addresses up anyway? None of >the other lists I'm on ever "outs" people like this one does! Who knows.... Invasion of privicy perhaps ;-) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 12:15:51 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -> SimCoupe & protected disks & Copyright Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:14:36 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be840c$7bacd1b0$4573989e@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003701be83c5$51d4d050$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 674 Lines: 18 Simon Cooke wrote: > CD's are much more durable, and as such, don't have this limitation. Doesn't the surface still oxidize over time though? (or was that just the early disks that weren't sealed so well). Even so they still last longer than floppies! > Also: OIDS on the ST. Mirrorsoft went bust. No backup copy. > Bugger. No Oids. Would it be legal for you to download a disk image of it from the web, as you own the original disk? Or would the person that uploaded it be breaking the law for effectively distributing it? Or if you knew someone that owned it, could you reformat your disk and make a copy of theirs? Maybe I shouldn't have started all this! ;) Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 14:25:00 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000901be8345$8fc6b8e0$a924883e@chris> References: <000e01be833d$34e4b4c0$a924883e@chris> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:22:41 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -> SimCoupe & protected disks & Copyright X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2338 Lines: 60 At 12:30 pm +0100 10/4/99, Chris White wrote: >My wish is the a Sam Emu is a COMPLETE emulation right down to Floppy Drive >Access, but what i don't want is it to create or beable to create IMAGES of >disks that can then be transfered with out any problems or work as free as >anyone would want to. For the record, I agree with this. >So by one act of so called *NON ILLEGAL* (still looking for >confirmationon this) act of deprotecting software and/or Hardware , one as >made the other 99% of population capable of *PIRACY* , which is Illegal. This will only be true if the deprotected version is distributed to the other 99% of the population, and this would in itself be illegal. >any form of BACKING up is going to >cost me loads I dispute this. Copying can only ever cost you money if it stops someone from buying the game. The distinction between piracy and backups is that anyone copying the game to make a backup has ALREADY bought the game, so you lose nothing (unless you were expecting this paid customer to pay again[1]). Wheras anyone copying the game who has not already bought it is NOT making a backup, they are pirating the game. BACKUPs will not cost you money, unless you are counting money from individual persons buying multiple copies of exactly the same game. Making a backup is not illegal in the UK. Making a backup is not piracy. PIRACY will cost you money. I accept that. I don't advocate piracy. Piracy is illegal in the UK. Piracy is not making a backup. >and I decline to authorize ANYONE to make a COPY of my >software. Sorry, but in the UK, they don't need your authorization. Not that I'm suggesting that you should make your games easy to copy - this would just encourage illegal copying ie piracy. But don't think that copying is never legal. Andrew [1] I can think of only one circumstance in which this is a reasonable expectation. That is, if a customer sells his original copy - he must destroy any backups he may have made otherwise this is piracy. If he wants to play the game afterwards, he'll need to buy another one. -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 14:25:00 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001701be8342$e5ef54a0$a924883e@chris> References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:22:41 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 4258 Lines: 103 At 12:11 pm +0100 10/4/99, Chris White wrote: [major snippage] >No , the law states that you bought a (for instance) , a game and was told >it would help you do word processing you could get a full (in whatever you >paid in refund) , so say you bought a word processor that had a spell >checker in it , but it only check for US syntac , you could get a full >refund Well, Yes that is more-or-less what I just said, and it is precisely correct. You'd previously been trying to argue that this particular law meant something rather different. >> If the program mostly worked, but one little bit >> needed tweaking and the programmers were unwilling to do that, I might fix >> it if it were within my ability to do so. > >But you need not as if you bought it for the slightly unworking part , you >are entitled to a fix (if sold stating it does this) or refund . What if I don't want a refund? Maybe noone else makes a program which does this job either. >> >Big for instance , if you modfied a piece of >> >software and then sold you machine (With all software as required by law) >, >> >then said modified software cause damage to machine who is liable? >> >> What exactly do you mean? I know of no such law, that requires me to >bundle >> software if I sell my computer. > >If you bought a computer then some software and you sold the computer , if >it has software on it you MUST by law pass on the original etc.... Yes I know, but I thought you were talking about the modified copy. Obviously one copy or the other must be deleted. The new user either gets the unmodified original, fully licenced, or the new user gets nothing at all. I would probably want to keep using the software, so I'd remove it from the old machine before sale. >> If I did sell a machine including a modified program, then I would be >> distributing a modified copy and that would be breaking UK law. > >Correct modifing software is breaking the law :) (Would get the jury on that >one) No, read my words again, I did NOT say that. The act of modifying software is NOT breaking UK law. But the act of DISTRIBUTING modified software IS breaking UK law. Is it not actually a very simple distinction indeed? >> Let's say you buy a fully working copy of RCT. What would happen, in three >> year's time, if you accidentally scratched that CD, and it no longer >> loaded? The publisher, if they were even still in business, would be >> unlikely to see it as their problem and would almost certainly not provide >> you with a free replacement. If you wanted to play the game again, you'd >> probably have to buy another copy unless you'd previously made a backup, >in >> which case there wouldn't be a problem. > >Accidenally scratching a CD is neglect on USERS part, Yes of course it is. That's why the company won't give you a free replacement. So either you shell out for a second copy of the same game, or you restore it from the backup you'd made. Note - this is not piracy. You already own a copy of that game. You have paid for a copy of that game. Restoring your own copy of of that game from your own backup of your own copy of that game, is not taking money from the software producers (unless they actively account for people paying twice, which is probably a very good way to irritate their customers). Are you seriously trying to tell me it is my moral or legal responsibility to pay twice for the same game? >> I should take more care to ensure that the >> modifications are not distributed, because the distribution of the >> modifications is illegal. However, actually making the modifications in >the >> first place, is certainly not. > >In theory yes , but you have in effect , modify a Copyright product and it >is no longer in original form, which is against the Copyright owners wishes >and rights! Modifiying the program may be against the owner's wishes, but it is not against the owner's rights. The owner doesn't *have* those rights, because they cannot be upheld by UK law. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 14:46:57 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:44:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Message-ID: In-reply-to: <000e01be833d$34e4b4c0$a924883e@chris> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 880 Lines: 22 > > Thought for the day: > (stolen from someone without there consent OOPS) I'll sue! I'll sue! > Where do you keep getting these signtures from? And can anyone point me > towards a VAST quantity of them The TFTD ones came with pegasus mail; the ones which don't start like that I've picked up from various places. When I can be bothered, I'll write a small program to convert between the format everything else uses and the one pmail uses (sigh). I can't point you at a vast quantity of them, but if you search the web for "cookies" then (assuming you don't get inundated by cookery sites) you should find quite a lot. :-) I'll send you the ones I've got, if you want..? Paul -- Someday a programmer who ignored compiler warnings without understanding them will be arrested for negligent homicide. That will be a good day. -- Szu-Wen Huang on comp.lang.c From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 15:11:20 1999 Message-ID: <000b01be8425$16078300$8b37883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:10:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 290 Lines: 10 > I can't point you at a vast quantity of them, but if you search the web for > "cookies" then (assuming you don't get inundated by cookery sites) you > should find quite a lot. :-) I'll send you the ones I've got, if you want..? Please do , and don't forget to mail Me and not the nvg From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 15:18:13 1999 Message-ID: <001101be8426$02d21a60$8b37883e@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:17:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1732 Lines: 41 > >Accidenally scratching a CD is neglect on USERS part, > > Yes of course it is. That's why the company won't give you a free replacement. > > So either you shell out for a second copy of the same game, or you restore > it from the backup you'd made. > > Note - this is not piracy. You already own a copy of that game. You have > paid for a copy of that game. > > Restoring your own copy of of that game from your own backup of your own > copy of that game, is not taking money from the software producers (unless > they actively account for people paying twice, which is probably a very > good way to irritate their customers). > > Are you seriously trying to tell me it is my moral or legal responsibility > to pay twice for the same game? No , but its on the USERS head if they have been neglect with there purchases, say you bought a book and you happened to spill coffee over it, you should be able to restore from you backup, but you wouldn't as you have insurence for this (I have) and this also includes (in my case) damage to computer media. If you don't take care of stuff why should you beable to get another free! As for making a copy from a backup this is not alloud , you must restore the original only , and if you have a damage original you no longer have a full working original? > Modifiying the program may be against the owner's wishes, but it is not > against the owner's rights. The owner doesn't *have* those rights, because > they cannot be upheld by UK law. Correct , but my rights as a copyright holder of product are still being violated as my consent has not been givin. All I have consented to is peeps may use with intended target platform! but we will have to aggree to disagree on this. Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 15:22:44 1999 From: nick@the-den.clara.net (Nick Humphries) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: System change needed Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:16:24 GMT Organization: Nick's Den Message-ID: <3716ae24.6112593@relay.clara.net> References: <000b01be8425$16078300$8b37883e@chris> In-Reply-To: <000b01be8425$16078300$8b37883e@chris> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 577 Lines: 12 This SAM Users List has recently become unfilterable for some reason (I used to filer on "To:" for "sam-users"). Can there be some sort of change so that, say, the Subject: field starts with "SU:" or something? -- ----------------------------------------------------------- ---- Nick Humphries - nick@the-den.clara.net ---- ----------------------------------------------------------- ------ The Your Sinclair Rock'n'Roll Years ------ ------- http://www.the-den.clara.net/ys/cover.htm ------- ----------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 17:41:31 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:40:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: System change needed Message-ID: In-reply-to: <3716ae24.6112593@relay.clara.net> References: <000b01be8425$16078300$8b37883e@chris> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 533 Lines: 13 > This SAM Users List has recently become unfilterable for some reason (I used > to filer on "To:" for "sam-users"). Can there be some sort of change so that, > say, the Subject: field starts with "SU:" or something? It's simple enough to filter, I found - try filtering on the Sender/To/Reply-to: field being everything from sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no. That works here. Paul -- It comes down to a question of which you fear more, doesn't it - government regulation of the net or sendmail.cf -- Jim Kingdon in net.subculture.usenet From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Apr 11 19:53:16 1999 From: "Maria Rookyard" To: "SAM Users Mailing List" Subject: Re: Copyright Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:40:11 +0100 Message-ID: <01be844a$bb629900$LocalHost@register> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 375 Lines: 26 > Hey.. Chris? Maybe this is the right time to unleash your planned > changes to the motorway system on sam-users? > > :) > > Si Well it can't be any worse than the plan you had to turn the M60 into a car park by completely blocking it so that no one could get past. Not that I'm having a go or anything.... ;) Maria. ============= Make hay not war ============= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 00:44:12 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002901be83c3$e2017400$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> References: <001401be833d$dba945a0$a924883e@chris> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:28:40 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Copyright X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 492 Lines: 17 At 3:34 am +0100 11/4/99, Simon Cooke wrote: >Hey.. Chris? Maybe this is the right time to unleash your planned changes to >the motorway system on sam-users? And I didn't know sam-users even _had_ a motorway system! :) Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 03:12:02 1999 Message-ID: <001f01be8488$e102d330$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> <001101be8426$02d21a60$8b37883e@chris> Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:05:03 -0700 Organization: McIroSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.2300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1403 Lines: 32 From: Chris White > No , but its on the USERS head if they have been neglect with there > purchases, say you bought a book and you happened to spill coffee over it, > you should be able to restore from you backup, but you wouldn't as you have > insurence for this (I have) and this also includes (in my case) damage to > computer media. If you don't take care of stuff why should you beable to get > another free! Books are different... With a book, you are buying the media, and a license to read the material on it. That is a single-user license (unless people read over your shoulder) with certain caveats (fair-use photo-copying; which is no greater than 15% of the material, IIRC). However, you can't get a book store to swap a damaged book for a new one; the book costs money. Now, if you had scanned in all the pages of the book -- as long as you kept it for yourself and didn't distribute it -- you could legally print your own copy and replace your damaged one with that one (although you'd have to keep the damaged one if you were being incredibly strict about it). Basically, when it comes down to it, the spirit of the law is that you can make copies for your own personal use. And that's the important bit. Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation). From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 09:56:01 1999 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 9:47:48 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 157e" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 313 Lines: 13 > >> Any objections to me putting this as part of my Sam pages > on the Net? > > > >Yes. If you put the list online, remove my email address beforehand. > > Mine as well please. Alright, alright it will stay here. Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 10:07:59 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF598E76@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:13:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 388 Lines: 12 > From: Dan Doore [SMTP:dan@armature.com] > >> Why the compulsion to keep putting a list of addresses up > anyway? None of >> the other lists I'm on ever "outs" people like this one does! > >The reason I keep doing it is to try and maintain a sense of community on the list, and so that Sam >Celebrities can be picked out :-) Do we get a prize if we pick out the right celebrity? Jut. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 10:07:59 1999 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 9:56:48 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 157e" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 375 Lines: 11 > Why the compulsion to keep putting a list of addresses up > anyway? None of > the other lists I'm on ever "outs" people like this one does! The reason I keep doing it is to try and maintain a sense of community on the list, and so that Sam Celebrities can be picked out :-) Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 12:47:43 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SimCoupe & protected disks Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:38:29 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be84d8$fcb89470$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003b01be81e7$3abbfea0$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 947 Lines: 24 Simon Cooke wrote: > I checked out... you can't do it without writing your own > kernel-mode driver :) I was hoping that FLOPPY.SYS would have support for COMMAND_READ_TRACK but it doesn't, as that may be all that's needed to read any Sam disk (well, it sounds like it in theory). I'll have a go at adding it, but it's a real pain doing any work with file system kernel-mode drivers as you need to reboot after every change. I built my own version and started it manually, but the drives are not visible :-( Another option is just to modify the drive media table table to add support for disks with 10 sectors per track, and rebuild the driver with a different name and with different symbolic links so it's seen as SAMA: SAMB: etc. That should give access to 10 sectors per track for all normal format Sam disks, which would be a start anyway! > Not that many people want to read/write at that low a level, it would > seem... Wimps ;-) Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 13:27:20 1999 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 99 12:12:50 GMT Message-ID: <1205_OASIS_@lhutz.demon.co.uk> From: 8bit@itdoesntsuck.com (James R Curry) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-Mailer: OASIS Post Box (Atari) v1.31E Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1170 Lines: 37 In E-Mail <001f01be8488$e102d330$71913b9d@dns.microsoft.com> "Simon Cooke" wrote:- >Books are different... > >With a book, you are buying the media, and a license to read the material on >it. That is a single-user license (unless people read over your shoulder) >with certain caveats (fair-use photo-copying; which is no greater than 15% >of the material, IIRC). Ok, fair enough... >Now, if you had scanned in all the pages of the book -- as long as you kept >it for yourself and didn't distribute it -- you could legally print your own >copy and replace your damaged one with that one (although you'd have to keep >the damaged one if you were being incredibly strict about it). Er, now, didn't you just contradict yourself...?! I thought we'd said in the "single user license" scenario that you couldn't make copies. __ James R Curry - 8bit@itdoesntsuck.com "You're missing the point! The individual doesn't matter. It was a team effort, and I was the one who came up with the whole team idea...me!" - Homer Simpson, The Simpsons. Please insert meaningless promise about The Official James R Curry web page here... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 15:29:07 1999 Message-ID: <004b01be84f0$2e9fe1c0$4c2bcdc2@Darren.automotive-online.com> From: Sales@comrac.co.uk (Darren Wileman) To: Subject: Where can a REAL SAM be obtained from Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:24:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01BE84F8.8FB34940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1014 Lines: 37 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BE84F8.8FB34940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any ideas? Robin@Webnet.force9.net ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BE84F8.8FB34940 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Comrac Limited.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Comrac Limited.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Limited;Comrac FN:Comrac Limited TEL;HOME;VOICE:01530 560880 TEL;CELL;VOICE:sales@comrac.co.uk TEL;HOME;FAX:01530 560590 ADR;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;Legion House=3D0D=3D0ASouth = Street=3D0D=3D0A;Ashby de la Zouch;Leicestershire;LE65=3D 1BQ;UNITED KINGDOM LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:Legion House=3D0D=3D0ASouth = Street=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0AAshby de la Zouch, Leicestershire =3D LE65 1BQ=3D0D=3D0AUNITED KINGDOM URL:www.comrac.co.uk EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:sales@comrac.co.uk REV:19990412T142430Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BE84F8.8FB34940-- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 16:27:23 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:53:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Copyright Message-ID: In-reply-to: <01be844a$bb629900$LocalHost@register> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 330 Lines: 12 > Well it can't be any worse than the plan you had to turn the M60 into a car > park by completely blocking it so that no one could get past. You mean it *isn't* a car park? Ye gods. Paul -- There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- Jeremy S. Anderson From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 16:27:25 1999 From: "Paul Walker" Organization: very little To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:53:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Real Sam Users List 30th March 1999 Message-ID: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-Hops: 1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 496 Lines: 15 > Alright, alright it will stay here. You might think I'm over-reacting; my POV is that this email address has remained entirely spam free, so I don't want it available for spammers to harvest. :) On the nicer side, someone finally got hold of the arafel@black-sun... address I use "just in case", and spam's started arriving for that. Okay, we'll just remove that user - oops, their spam is undeliverable. Shame. Paul -- Thought for the day: A penny saved is ridiculous. From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 12 17:51:24 1999 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:51:24 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe interrupt timings Message-ID: <19990412175124.D6087@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: <19990410022510.A12934@comlab.ox.ac.uk> <000501be835a$3a07af30$4573989e@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <000501be835a$3a07af30$4573989e@simon.wordcraft.co.uk>; from Si Owen on Sat, Apr 10, 1999 at 02:58:35PM +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 2877 Lines: 54 On Sat, Apr 10, 1999 at 02:58:35PM +0100, Si Owen wrote: > LD r,r' says 8 t-states, but the docs I have say it's 7. JR c,e takes 8 > t-states if the condition is not met and 12 if it is, but the docs I have > say it's 7 and 13 respectively. etc. > Could someone explain the 4 t-state rounding? (machine cycles?) I could > understand it being rounded up, but the conditional relative jump is > slightly shorter. I've always done video effects with official timings, and > manual tweaks if necessary! For the moment, assume that the screen is turned off or it happens to be displaying the border. At this time, all accesses to main RAM are restricted by the ASIC to occur only on every fourth cycle. (This does not apply to external RAM or to ROM). The usual effect of this is to round instructions up to the next multiple of 4, because each instruction starts with an opcode fetch and thus has to wait until the next "fourth" cycle. So, for example, if INC HL is executed then it takes 6 cycles of its own plus 2 cycles waiting for the next instruction fetch for a total of 8 cycles. Some instructions involve more than one memory access. In these cases the instruction timing depends on when exactly the Z80 requests the memory access. In the simplest cases of LD A,n, LD HL,nn and so on the accesses follow on from each other and so the time taken is just four cycles for each access. However, for PUSH HL I believe it goes something like this opcode is fetched 4 cycles SP register is decremented 1 cycle Z80 must wait for the next access 3 cycles H is stored at (SP) 3 cycles SP is decremented in parallel with the store so no cycles Z80 must wait for the next access 1 cycle L is stored at (SP) 3 cycles Z80 must wait for the next instruction fetch 1 cycle making 16 cycles in total. As for the JR instruction, you remember wrongly. Docs state that JR takes 12 cycles if the jump is taken, and that is still true. For DJNZ docs state that it takes 13 cycles if the jump is taken, and Sam rounds that up to 16. The Sam never takes less time than the docs say. Now, if the screen is turned on then it is slightly more complicated. The screen is displayed for 256 of every 384 cycles on each line, for 192 of the 312 lines (though this is different in mode 1). During that time memory access is restricted to every eighth cycle, so most instructions take twice as long. INC HL still only takes 8 cycles, though, since it doesn't require memory access once the instruction has been fetched. On the other hand, if a program is running in ROM then the Z80 doesn't have to wait for instruction fetches, so it runs faster. It does have to wait for each instruction which accesses the RAM, however. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 20:28:21 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop.hermes.cam.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001101be8426$02d21a60$8b37883e@chris> References: <000001be81d5$b2817bc0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:14:54 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: SimCoupe & protected disks X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1408 Lines: 38 At 3:17 pm +0100 11/4/99, Chris White wrote: >As for making a copy from a backup this is not alloud , you must restore the >original only , and if you have a damage original you no longer have a full >working original? Pardon? >> Modifiying the program may be against the owner's wishes, but it is not >> against the owner's rights. The owner doesn't *have* those rights, because >> they cannot be upheld by UK law. > >Correct , but my rights as a copyright holder of product are still being >violated as my consent has not been givin. All I have consented to is peeps >may use with intended target platform! Hmmm, you say "Correct" and then flatly contradict what I just wrote. Why? Surely I can't violate a right you haven't got. You haven't got the right, under UK law, to stop me from modifying your code. So even if I do, I can't be violating any of your rights. The plain fact is, that this is what the law in the UK currently says. You think the law is wrong, and maybe it is. Maybe it should be changed. Lobby your MP. >but we will have to aggree to disagree on this. Alright, we've already spent a lot of bandwidth here. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email asc25@cam.ac.uk | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he +----------------+-----------------------------+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 20:41:07 1999 Message-Id: From: Dan Doore Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:33:45 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Using Sam on a SVGA Monitor MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310102093/310102123/310460310/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 157e" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2048 Lines: 40 I remember some time ago that there was talk of how to get the output from Sam onto a VGA monitor but I've lost the mail. Anyway, it seems I now have need of such a device so I've been trawling the web for resources and I thought I'd share my findings - 'Taunt the Browser-less' as one of my mates calls it. There was some good information at http://www.hut.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2tv/computer_tv.html about the way that these things work and the issues involved but was a bit too scary for me :-) I seem to remember talk of using monitors that can sync down to the lower horizontal rates so I had a look at: http://www.gamesx.com/rgbadd/caveatrgb.htm http://www.gamesx.com/misctech/rgbprimer.htm And it says: "A VGA monitor will not work. With only a few exceptions, a VGA monitor will not synchronize with a video display below 15 kHz horizontal sweep. Check your users guide, it will list the supported frequencies. Current VGA monitors have a minimum horizontal scan rate of about 30kHz. Amiga monitors will work. Atari ST (Colour) monitors will work. Arcade monitors (Raster only!) will work. Certain early model NEC Multisync monitors will work. Very few others will. If you do not have a suitable monitor, DO NOT USE IT!! You will, at best, shut down your monitor temporarily. At worst, a very nasty sounding high pitched whine, and then silence as your monitor kills itself trying to do what you want." Hmmm, didn't like the sound of that much. But it did make mention of this little device: http://www.ncsx.com/ncs1201/xrgb-1.htm Woohoo! Does the job, looks nice - but it's NTSC! D'oh! So, after a fruitless few hours I seem to be back to square one, either that or go out and spend the cash on a nice portable telly instead and stop looking forlornly at the 15" Trinitron monitor I have stashed in the loft. Bah. Anyway, what were the previous findings? I seem to recall somebody got something to work like this. Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Apr 12 21:01:22 1999 Subject: Re: Using Sam on a SVGA Monitor To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:00:11 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Doore" at Apr 12, 99 08:33:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Andrew Gale X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1067 Lines: 24 Hmm... Sam users are not alone in this how-do-I-connect-a-monitor problem. Atari ST and Amiga users have the same problem (well, older Amigas certainly do - don't know about newer ones), and so my guess is that a good place to start would be to look in an Amiga magazine. Every time I pick up an Amiga mag there seem to be a plethora of adapters to connect PC equipment and I guess there are PAL-to-VGA adapters advertised there. The problem might be if they are somehow Amiga specific. Theoretically a SAM-to-VGA adapter wouldn't be tricky - all we need is some sort of RAM into which we feed one horizontal scan line from the SAM (and since the sam has its digital outputs on the euroconnector we don't even need to bother with digital-to-analogue converters) and simultaneously read out the previously stored line twice over and at twice the frequency of the incoming line. That'd give an output at 31.2KHz horizontal and 50Hz vertical, which *most* monitors should be able to cope with (though it is pushing at the lower limits). Anyone feeling brave?! Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 13 11:14:52 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SimCoupe interrupt timings Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:39:11 +0100 Message-ID: <000201be8580$b890d480$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-reply-to: <19990412175124.D6087@comlab.ox.ac.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 669 Lines: 20 Ian Collier wrote: > For the moment, assume that the screen is turned off or it happens to > be displaying the border. At this time, all accesses to main RAM are > restricted by the ASIC to occur only on every fourth cycle. (This does > not apply to external RAM or to ROM). Ah, didn't suspect RAM contention for the effect - I thought that would come up further down the line tho! > However, for PUSH HL I believe it goes something like this Can you recommend a reference for this sort of instruction detail? I'd be game to go through it at some point to try and get the rounding right to implement RAM contention... Thanks for the explanation Ian! Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 13 11:14:53 1999 Subject: Re: Using Sam on a SVGA Monitor To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:46:50 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Gale" at Apr 12, 99 09:00:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Andrew Gale X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 156 Lines: 6 > ...need to bother > with digital-to-analogue converters) and simultaneously ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That should be "analogue-to-digital", of course! From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Tue Apr 13 14:47:36 1999 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:47:36 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe interrupt timings Message-ID: <19990413144736.C10131@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: <19990412175124.D6087@comlab.ox.ac.uk> <000201be8580$b890d480$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <000201be8580$b890d480$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk>; from Si Owen on Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 08:39:11AM +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 446 Lines: 10 On Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 08:39:11AM +0100, Si Owen wrote: > Can you recommend a reference for this sort of instruction detail? Not really - it's mostly guesswork, although I did measure a lot of instructions experimentally. I think Pedro Gimeno did something similar for the Spectrum and the results are in the cssfaq - although the Spectrum seems to exhibit some strange quirks which the Sam doesn't (particularly in the relative jumps). imc From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Tue Apr 13 14:58:01 1999 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:58:01 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Win32 SimCoupe (was: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!)) Message-ID: <19990413145800.D10131@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: <19990407010330.B22674@comlab.ox.ac.uk> <000001be8108$d42f1750$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <000001be8108$d42f1750$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk>; from Si Owen on Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 04:10:53PM +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 1553 Lines: 31 On Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 04:10:53PM +0100, Si Owen wrote: > Ian Collier wrote: > > Does the Amstrad DSK format not cover this? (I don't actually > > know anything about it, except that it is more complicated than > > a straight dump of all the tracks on the disk.) > I've not found any official docs for it but I've flicked through the > comments in some ASM code that reads them, and it does seem to cover things > like unformatted tracks, but I didn't see anything for non-512 byte sectors. I think there is an official doc - probably somewhere on Kev Thacker's Amstrad site. > I was wondering whether the your current core would benefit from having the > register pairs in little endian order so HL can be accessed without shifting > and ORing the two 8-bit parts, so I might give that a try at some time - it > can conditionally be compiled as big endian for the platforms that need it. I'm not sure what you are getting at here. The endianness shouldn't make any difference since memory is not involved directly (though I guess the x86 will have to use memory because it doesn't have enough registers). If you force it to go to memory then it could make the emulator slower on other architectures (this was the main problem with xzx on the sparc). It was basically a choice between keeping 8-bit quantities and shifting+ORing whenever register pairs are used, and keeping 16-bit quantities and shifting whenever single registers are used. I made the choice arbitrarily as it seemed easier to deal with the 8-bit registers individually. imc From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Tue Apr 13 15:05:32 1999 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:05:32 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: System change needed Message-ID: <19990413150532.E10131@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: <000b01be8425$16078300$8b37883e@chris> <3716ae24.6112593@relay.clara.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <3716ae24.6112593@relay.clara.net>; from Nick Humphries on Sun, Apr 11, 1999 at 02:16:24PM +0000 Status: RO Content-Length: 609 Lines: 18 On Sun, Apr 11, 1999 at 02:16:24PM +0000, Nick Humphries wrote: > This SAM Users List has recently become unfilterable for some reason Why? > (I used > to filer on "To:" for "sam-users"). Should still work. All my sam-users mail is displayed in green and the rule for that is "To: or Cc: sam-users". > Can there be some sort of change so that, > say, the Subject: field starts with "SU:" or something? Well it's possible, but why fix the whole list when it only seems to be your problem? ;-) imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 13 15:24:56 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Win32 SimCoupe (was: Z80 flags for INI(R) and OTI(R)? #2 (oops!)) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:18:17 +0100 Message-ID: <000101be85b8$79af97a0$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <19990413145800.D10131@comlab.ox.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 827 Lines: 18 Ian Collier wrote: > It was basically a choice between keeping 8-bit quantities and > shifting+ORing whenever register pairs are used, and keeping 16-bit > quantities and shifting whenever single registers are used. I made the > choice arbitrarily as it seemed easier to deal with the 8-bit registers > individually. I was thinking of a packed structure (but not necessarily in a strcuture) so that B is stored in the the location following C, so you can pick each out individually or BC as a WORD, without needing to shift or OR anything. Picking the word out was the bit that I was thinking would be endian sensitive. It'd probably work if done as a C union, but I wasn't sure how efficient that'd compile up to be compared to the simple variable version. I might give it a try with HL to see what different it makes. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Apr 13 15:49:09 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SimCoupe interrupt timings Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:47:11 +0100 Message-ID: <000201be85bc$83249070$03a046c2@simon.wordcraft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <19990413144736.C10131@comlab.ox.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 832 Lines: 17 Ian Collier wrote: > Not really - it's mostly guesswork, although I did measure a lot of > instructions experimentally. I think Pedro Gimeno did something similar > for the Spectrum and the results are in the cssfaq I found Pedro's work at lunch-time and it looks like a good starting point. At the weekend I might have a look at adding the delays to (normal RAM) reads and writes, just by rounding up to the next 8 t-states when I think the main display area is being read by the ASIC (not including border). The extra split timings will then need to be added for reads and writes within the various instructions - thankfully a good chunk of the instructions don't access memory! It'll take a lot to get right, but hopfully it'll allow some timing sensitive code (particularly in demos) to be closer to working as expected. Si