From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 16 11:20:19 1999 Message-ID: <00e701bf002a$260bd7c0$64a5fea9@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: "samusers" Subject: *ahem* Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 02:59:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 206 Lines: 6 I have no idea what came over me there.. I do apologize :) All the bits of Statues of Ice that I wrote are in a disk box somewhere in England.. and one disk is in the possession of Jonathan Nash :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 16 11:20:19 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851D80@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Source going up Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:05:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 732 Lines: 26 Wow.. Just checked out some of the stuff.. Interesting - very interesting! :) Out of curiousity, has anyone objected to the ProDOS source going up? Or have I turned blind for staring at a Digital Unix screen too long? > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Cooke [SMTP:simoncooke@earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 11:59 PM > To: samusers > Subject: Source going up > > I'm putting a whole chunk of source code online... > > Questions: > > Anyone object to the following going up? > > PRODOS 1st May 1992 source code > E-COPY 3 source code > E-COPY 1.0 source code > Parallax boot sector and DOS source code > > MasterDOS v2.3 source code (on SAM archive) > SAM ROM v3.0 source code (on SAM archive) > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 16 13:29:49 1999 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:24:20 +0100 (GMT) From: Robert Brady To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: *ahem* In-Reply-To: <005e01bf002c$3c086f50$3701a8c0@tistemp3.tissoft.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 819 Lines: 20 On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Nick Humphries wrote: > From: Simon Cooke > > >I have no idea what came over me there.. I do apologize :) > > No probs - I've been called worse :) For instance, I've just been told that the > Java scrolly on the front page of the YSRnRY sometimes crashes NT4 if you read > it right to the end... that'll teach me for not coding it myself... I'll have to > write my own from scratch, methinks (unless anyone here knows of a good smooth > fast-ish Java scroller - I'm currently using ProScroll 2.5.3). Applets shouldn't be able to crash NT or it's JVM. If it does, it's a bug in NT or it's JVM, not the applet. -- Robert The ASCII Consortium : dragging character encoding kicking and screaming into the 20th century! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 16 13:41:45 1999 X-sendmail-revision: 29-Mar-1999 (23) by ant@tissoft.co.uk Message-ID: <007c01bf0040$546bc880$3701a8c0@tistemp3.tissoft.co.uk> From: "Nick Humphries" To: Subject: Re: *ahem* Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:38:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1099 Lines: 34 -----Original Message----- From: Robert Brady To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 16 September 1999 13:34 Subject: Re: *ahem* >On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Nick Humphries wrote: > >> From: Simon Cooke >> >> >I have no idea what came over me there.. I do apologize :) >> >> No probs - I've been called worse :) For instance, I've just been told that the >> Java scrolly on the front page of the YSRnRY sometimes crashes NT4 if you read >> it right to the end... that'll teach me for not coding it myself... I'll have to >> write my own from scratch, methinks (unless anyone here knows of a good smooth >> fast-ish Java scroller - I'm currently using ProScroll 2.5.3). > >Applets shouldn't be able to crash NT or it's JVM. If it does, it's a bug >in NT or it's JVM, not the applet. Well, whatever - it does bad things and I'm trying out alternatives which work across all platforms. You wouldn't BELIEVE how many scroller applets there are out there - and very few of them are the basic horizontal scroller which is all I need... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 16 14:14:56 1999 Message-ID: <003101bf0044$b28fae00$22c548c2@chris--pc.> From: "Chris Pile" To: Subject: Re: Source going up Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:07:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 628 Lines: 20 -----Original Message----- From: Simon Cooke To: samusers Date: 16 September 1999 00:07 Subject: Source going up >I'm putting a whole chunk of source code online... > >Questions: > >Anyone object to the following going up? >PRODOS 1st May 1992 source code Simon, do you have the Pro-DOS original source? The last one I wrote before other people started hacking it? If so, could you send me a plain ASCII version of it please? If not, then no problem. Personally I don't object to the source going up. However, I think Brian Gaff still owns the rights to it... Chris. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 16 14:58:16 1999 Message-ID: <37E0EEF9.EBE3CD9E@bonbon.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:22:01 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Proposal for the FTP site... References: <012301beffc8$7b87ec00$64a5fea9@simcooke3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1180 Lines: 30 Simon Cooke wrote: > Can we add a "fileinfo.txt" file to every folder? I want to write a quite > utility which will go through the site, and grab this info from each one, > building an index on my web pages... > This way, we'd be able to have an online directory of sorts, that I could > run a bot on every now and then to update it. Only problem is getting people > to put together the initial index... but if anyone's up to the job, we could > parcel out tasks for it... Couldn't you just do that with some kinda cgi scripty thing. As in, the directory of the site is displayed using a cgi script which just goes through and pieces all these things together into a nice structured file thing?... Its just that would save you from having to bother running a bot every now and then. Now, as to writing the cgi thing, urmm... Any volunteers :).... I suppose I could put a bit of time into creating the initial index, but I'm off on my hols (Florida.. woohoo) in a while, and then going on one of those year-out studenty things. So it'd have to be pretty soon!! Nice idea though. Fitz -- Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 16 22:38:04 1999 Message-ID: <00af01bf008a$b89dcf20$64a5fea9@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <012301beffc8$7b87ec00$64a5fea9@simcooke3> <37E0EEF9.EBE3CD9E@bonbon.net> Subject: Re: Proposal for the FTP site... Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:30:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1088 Lines: 27 > Simon Cooke wrote: > > Can we add a "fileinfo.txt" file to every folder? I want to write a quite > > utility which will go through the site, and grab this info from each one, > > building an index on my web pages... > > > This way, we'd be able to have an online directory of sorts, that I could > > run a bot on every now and then to update it. Only problem is getting people > > to put together the initial index... but if anyone's up to the job, we could > > parcel out tasks for it... > > Couldn't you just do that with some kinda cgi scripty thing. As in, the > directory of the site is displayed using a cgi script which just goes > through and pieces all these things together into a nice structured file > thing?... Its just that would save you from having to bother running a > bot every now and then. Now, as to writing the cgi thing, urmm... Any > volunteers :).... Erm... isn't that exactly what I am proposing anyway? Except your version would put a lot of load on the server; mine is static and only updated when I run the program on the server. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Sep 17 12:13:39 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:07:01 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 4058 Lines: 88 Ian Collier wrote: > Do you also ensure that the screen is black when the display is disabled? Yes, but currently only to the resolution of a single scanline. If the screen is disabled at the end of the line when it comes to draw it it'll be drawn black instead, even if it was only disabled in the right-hand border area! > Some of my code relies on this for cosmetic effect - ie, cleaning up > pixels which couldn't be modified in time. I think ESI's The Lyra 3 does > this too. Sounds like that'll need finer control... it should still be possible by going off the LineCycleCounter value when it's been switched off, but instruction timing is going to be even more crucial! Multiple on-offs on the same line would be a bit of a pig to do too tho! There does still seems to be some mess left below the 'loading' counter from the previous screen in The Lyra 3 for some reason. > I suspect it may well be easier and probably more accurate to hard-wire > all the instruction times up to the nearest 4 (more accurate than the > standard timings because instruction reads always occur at 4 t-state > boundaries, even when the processor is running in uncontended RAM.[1]) A while ago when I was playing with instruction timings, I went through the Z80ops/edops/cbops and changed the instruction timings from the tweaked versions to the values from the Rodnay Zaks book, with the plan to round/tweak values by either wrapping each value in a macro for a compile-time change, or doing a run-time calculation. To get the apparent correct value for Defender I'm using the raw unrounded values. I've just tried using "(tstates + 3) & ~3" to round up to the next 4 t-states [just noticed the 8 t-state rounding formula rounding was wrong in my last message!] but the Defender loop works out the value wrong. Also, the only instructions in the loop that were not already 4 t-state rounded were the IN A,(249) and the JP NZ,nn, and manually rounding these up in z80ops.c gave another different value. I might have to look more closely to see what the LineCycleCounter value is throughout the loop, but it seems like a strange coincidence that the raw values give the correct 0xc0c0 result! Are the instruction times always going to be 4 t-state rounded? > It would be interesting to see how your modified timing code copes with my > second E-Tunes player (Fred 63 onwards, or from > http://mnemotech.ucam.org/mnemotech.html) *gulps* Is that ETUNES63.DSK.GZ? (loads straight from the file using zlib :-)) What am I looking for where? (remember there's no sound support yet so I can't hear anything, and my SAM's back in the loft until I can get a SCART cable!). > The problem there is that a lot of line interrupt routines are involved in > displaying the scrolling message - in current versions of SimCoupe the > processing for one line takes too long, and the code misses the following > line's interrupt, so has to wait for that during the next frame. Hopefully it won't run too slow anymore, but it might run too fast ;-) I've got a menu screen that has relies on pretty critical timing for some mode 3 palette switching , and I seem to remember that it's always run a little too fast under SimCoupe. It uses line interrupts for the start of a section, but relies on small delays and instruction timing to keep in synchronised for the remaning 25 or so lines in the larger characters. I had a quick look and it doesn't look much different - I need to have a closer look at that too. > The message is sixteen pixels high, so this actually causes the program to > run at one sixteenth of the proper speed. Can't see a scrolly so maybe there's something else wrong! If I go for eject on that screen I just get a black screen - should I be seeing something else after that point? > [1] Running from ROM or external RAM will be different, of course, but > that is probably of secondary importance? Ah, I'd forgotton about those cases... Fewer things will rely on timings there, so it may well have to go on the to-do list for now! Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Sep 17 13:25:03 1999 From: "David Laundon" To: Subject: RE: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:12:44 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Server: VPOP3 V1.3.3 - Registered to: Steven J. Jeffery X-Organisation: Catalyst Computer Systems Ltd. X-Web: Visit our Web Page at http://www.catalyst-uk.com X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1374 Lines: 35 Si Owen wrote: >I might have to look more closely to see what the LineCycleCounter value is >throughout the loop, but it seems like a strange coincidence that the raw >values give the correct 0xc0c0 result! Are the instruction times always >going to be 4 t-state rounded? Not quite that simple :) INs and OUTs are a bit awkward. First of all, INs and OUTs take differing numbers of t-states depending on whether the port is an internal SAM port (HMPR, etc) or an external one (Quazar etc). For internal ports the number of t-states used depends on when the instruction occurs. IN A,(n) and OUT (n),A takes 12 *OR* 16 t-states and IN r,(C) and OUT (C),r takes 16 *OR* 20 t-states. The number of t-states since some fixed point (beginning of the frame?) after the instruction seems to be rounded up to the nearest multiple of 8. For example the timings for the following code would be: 12/16 IN A,(STAT) ;Depends on where we've started from! 16 IN A,(STAT) 4 NOP 12 IN A,(STAT) 16 IN A,(C) 4 NOP 20 IN A,(C) All other versions of IN and OUT also vary by 4 t-states in the same way. *However* :) For external ports this rounding to the nearest 8 since some fixed point doesn't seem to occur. Also, IIRC, IN A,(n) and IN r,(C) both take the same time for external ports (12 t-states). Well, that should keep you going for a while :) David Laundon. From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Fri Sep 17 13:30:54 1999 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:30:54 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) Message-ID: <19990917133054.A5495@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Si Owen on Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 12:07:01PM +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 192 Lines: 7 On Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 12:07:01PM +0100, Si Owen wrote: > Ian Collier wrote: > > Do you also ensure that the screen is black when the display is disabled? Er, actually I didn't... :-) imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Sep 17 14:41:40 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: Re: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:21:07 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <19990917133054.A5495@comlab.ox.ac.uk> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 265 Lines: 15 Ian Collier wrote: > Er, actually I didn't... :-) Ook, you're right... I knew I was going to make that mistake at some point! (Sorry Andrew!) How about: > > Ian Collier didn't write: > > > Do you also ensure that the screen is black when the display ;-) Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Sep 17 14:41:40 1999 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:36:51 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@red.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2928 Lines: 67 On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Si Owen wrote: > I might have to look more closely to see what the LineCycleCounter value is > throughout the loop, but it seems like a strange coincidence that the raw > values give the correct 0xc0c0 result! Are the instruction times always > going to be 4 t-state rounded? Well, there are some more specific effects in certain cases, but essentially yes, all instruction times are always rounded to at least a 4 t-state boundary. > > It would be interesting to see how your modified timing code copes with my > > second E-Tunes player (Fred 63 onwards, or from > > http://mnemotech.ucam.org/mnemotech.html) > > *gulps* Is that ETUNES63.DSK.GZ? (loads straight from the file using zlib > :-)) What am I looking for where? (remember there's no sound support yet > so I can't hear anything, and my SAM's back in the loft until I can get a > SCART cable!). There's a scrolly message in the middle of the screen. However, you said that screen on/off effects only happen at line resolution; how about VMPR changes? The scrolly message is never displayed at the right hand side of the screen, so maybe this demo is doomed until SimCoupe works at higher time resolution... > > The problem there is that a lot of line interrupt routines are involved in > > displaying the scrolling message - in current versions of SimCoupe the > > processing for one line takes too long, and the code misses the following > > line's interrupt, so has to wait for that during the next frame. > > Hopefully it won't run too slow anymore, but it might run too fast ;-) If you watch the horizontal bars at the sides of the screen; as they shrink, they should move at 1 byte every frame. With your SimCoupe timings, does this appear to be the case? > > The message is sixteen pixels high, so this actually causes the program to > > run at one sixteenth of the proper speed. > > Can't see a scrolly so maybe there's something else wrong! If I go for > eject on that screen I just get a black screen - should I be seeing > something else after that point? No, the eject button exists the program. I'd guess that you've actually returned to BASIC at that point, but all the palette entries would be set to zero... > > [1] Running from ROM or external RAM will be different, of course, but > > that is probably of secondary importance? > > Ah, I'd forgotton about those cases... Fewer things will rely on timings > there, so it may well have to go on the to-do list for now! Yes, that was my logic too. Unless the ROM does something absurd with palette lines, I can't think of any situations when running the ROM at contended speed would cause a problem with program execution. Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Sep 17 15:34:01 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:03:00 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2116 Lines: 50 David Laundon wrote (oh yes he did): > For internal ports the number of t-states used depends on when the > instruction occurs. IN A,(n) and OUT (n),A takes 12 *OR* 16 > t-states This is already in place, with the extra 4 t-states being added when LineCycleCounter is not a multiple of 8. I notice it's also important in getting the correct Defender value, as it doesn't work without with it commented out. > and IN r,(C) and OUT (C),r takes 16 *OR* 20 t-states. These need adding, and are probably important for palette changing code that is often part of line-interrupt handlers, since as Andrew (:-)) mentioned the timing accurancy for them is pretty critical. I expect INd(R) and OTd(R) instructions will probably need similar modifications, especially as OTDR is probably the most commonly used method for setting up a palette. > The number of t-states since some fixed point (beginning of the frame?) > after the instruction seems to be rounded up to the nearest multiple of 8. The Defender timing stabilisation fix needed the LineCycleCounter to be resynchronised at the start of the frame, so it does seem to suggest that it's frame based. > *However* :) For external ports this rounding to the nearest 8 since some > fixed point doesn't seem to occur. Also, IIRC, IN A,(n) and IN r,(C) both > take the same time for external ports (12 t-states). Some are obviously internal or external, but I'm not sure about all of them. Are the MIDI, floppy, printer and sound ports still classed as internal? (possibly) I'd guess that reads/writes for unhandled ports will be fast too, in which case the only ones that need slowing down will be special hardware devices. If that's true then only special hardware (that has to be emulated specially) will need the extra 4 t-states - that might just be the clock and hard disk ports for now. Does that sound about right? > Well, that should keep you going for a while :) The missing additional timings are easily added, and the external special cases might not be too bad either - I'll add em over the weekend unless there are other complications! Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Sep 17 15:59:05 1999 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:41:49 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@red.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: RE: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1084 Lines: 26 On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Si Owen wrote: > > *However* :) For external ports this rounding to the nearest 8 since some > > fixed point doesn't seem to occur. Also, IIRC, IN A,(n) and IN r,(C) both > > take the same time for external ports (12 t-states). > > Some are obviously internal or external, but I'm not sure about all of them. > Are the MIDI, floppy, printer and sound ports still classed as internal? > (possibly) Internal, in this context, refers to whether or not it is the ASIC itself which handles these ports. Eg, it handles the MIDI interactions so that is internal, but there is a seperate sound chip so those ports are classed external. The floppy ports are also so a seperate chip, and I think the printer ports are external too. Hmmm, if you're simulating the printer port, would it be possible to attach a virtual EdDAC to it? Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Sep 17 19:23:15 1999 From: "David Laundon" To: Subject: RE: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:21:15 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 706 Lines: 19 Andrew Collier wrote: > Internal, in this context, refers to whether or not it is the ASIC itself > which handles these ports. Eg, it handles the MIDI interactions so that is > internal, but there is a seperate sound chip so those ports are classed > external. The floppy ports are also so a seperate chip, and I think the > printer ports are external too. Oh, I always thought the sound chip was affected in the same way. Of course, there's also the question of how long does an instruction take when screen contention begins or ends part way through the instruction?!! ;) > Hmmm, if you're simulating the printer port, would it be possible to > attach a virtual EdDAC to it? > > Andrew David Laundon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Sep 17 19:41:09 1999 Message-ID: <37E28707.D6617644@bonbon.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:23:03 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Proposal for the FTP site... References: <012301beffc8$7b87ec00$64a5fea9@simcooke3> <37E0EEF9.EBE3CD9E@bonbon.net> <00af01bf008a$b89dcf20$64a5fea9@simcooke3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 902 Lines: 27 Simon Cooke wrote: > > > Couldn't you just do that with some kinda cgi scripty thing. As in, the > > directory of the site is displayed using a cgi script which just goes > > through and pieces all these things together into a nice structured file > > thing?... Its just that would save you from having to bother running a > > bot every now and then. Now, as to writing the cgi thing, urmm... Any > > volunteers :).... > > Erm... isn't that exactly what I am proposing anyway? Except your version > would put a lot of load on the server; mine is static and only updated when > I run the program on the server. Ahhhh ....I get ya now :).... Duh :o).... Fairy nuff, carry on & do yer thing :) ..As I say, if you need help creating the initial index just lemme know what needs doing & I'll do some before I disappear. Fitz -- Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Sep 17 19:41:09 1999 Message-ID: <007f01bf013a$18119680$64a5fea9@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: Subject: Re: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:25:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 738 Lines: 18 From: David Laundon > Andrew Collier wrote: > > Internal, in this context, refers to whether or not it is the ASIC itself > > which handles these ports. Eg, it handles the MIDI interactions so that is > > internal, but there is a seperate sound chip so those ports are classed > > external. The floppy ports are also so a seperate chip, and I think the > > printer ports are external too. > > Oh, I always thought the sound chip was affected in the same way. Mmmm... I think the contention comes in when the ASIC has to do the port-decode and put that signal line out on the bus. Not 100% sure though. So it'd affect the disc controllers, printer, sound chip, but not any other external devices... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Sep 17 21:44:15 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: Re: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:22:25 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1832 Lines: 45 Andrew Collier wrote: > Well, there are some more specific effects in certain cases, but > essentially yes, all instruction times are always rounded to at least a 4 > t-state boundary. I'm still confused about why the Defender loop runs ok - maybe multiple timing errors are cancelling each other out in some strange way! I might try and work out what the value should be in theory, and add some SimCoupe logging to show what it's doing for each line etc. > There's a scrolly message in the middle of the screen. However, you said > that screen on/off effects only happen at line resolution; how about VMPR > changes? It's the same for all video effects - the video state at the end of the scanline is assumed to have been the situation for the entire line. It'll take a good chunk more processing to be able to generate the display correctly on the fly, but it'd be nice if it was done - probably as an option, with the less accurate method for slower machines! > If you watch the horizontal bars at the sides of the screen; as they > shrink, they should move at 1 byte every frame. With your SimCoupe > timings, does this appear to be the case? Yes - I got it to wait for a keypress between frames and can see it move in by two pixels each time. I've not seen it under the DOS version (and am in NT at the moment so I daren't try it!) to know what it used to be like. > > > The message is sixteen pixels high, so this actually causes > > > the program to run at one sixteenth of the proper speed. Still not seen the message itself - where is it? Could it be a video effect that's being missed by the line-resolution display generation? > No, the eject button exists the program. I'd guess that you've actually > returned to BASIC at that point, but all the palette entries would be set > to zero... ah, phew! Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Sep 18 00:39:43 1999 by localhost with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 01:40:28 -0000 Message-ID: <138143183.937618828743.JavaMail.root@localhost> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 01:40:28 +0000 (GMT) From: surfin_usm@absobloodylutely.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: MY MAGS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="138144439.937618828688.JavaMail.root@www0" X-Funmail-UID: 183619 X-Senders-IP: unknown X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1439 Lines: 31 --138144439.937618828688.JavaMail.root@www0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello SAM geeks. I would quite like to get hold of the disk 'zines I wrote on the SAM - namely 'Chips' and 'Pump'. I'm not sure what format they need to be in for Sim Coupe, cos I've never used it (other than fiddling with BASIC and realising I've forgotten how to program), but if anybody out there has all issues of the mags and fancies converting them for me (er, Dave Whitemore? er.. sorry for not emailling you in, ooh, ages) then that would be nice. HOWEVER, I do not want these things on the 'net cos it's quite embarrassing seeing what I wrote when I was 15-16, especially since then I've had proper! paid! published! writing. It's more the crap games I wrote that I'm interested in. It'd be fun seeing them again. Anyway, I'll leave you all to continue discussing source codes and FTP servers and whatnot. PS. This may be a FAQ, but is there a digest version of this list? PPS. Please reply to my disk 'zine please by emailling my other address: adie@alphabetty.co.uk Cheers 'ears. ::adie-usm:: www.alphabetty.co.uk "The cool people know who the cool people are" ---------------------------------------------------------- "like Hotmail but faster and a lot better" Carol Vorderman, The Mirror, writing about http://www.funmail.co.uk --138144439.937618828688.JavaMail.root@www0-- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Sep 18 17:39:40 1999 From: "David Laundon" To: Subject: RE: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:38:46 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2412 Lines: 64 I've been playing around with the anti-emulator loop (on a real SAM) getting rid of all the IX stuff and replacing it with a simple counter, but keeping the number of t-states the main loop takes unchanged (80). At the end of it HL returns 0x5d8, which agrees with what IX was returning before. I then varied the number of NOPs to see the effect... DI LD A,128 OUT (BORD),A LD B,8 ;FRAME int bitmask LD HL,0 ;Counter clear_vbl: IN A,(STAT) AND B JP Z,clear_vbl ;Wait for VBL to finish start_vbl: IN A,(STAT) AND B JP NZ,start_vbl ;Wait for VBL to start clear_vbl_1: IN A,(STAT) AND B JP Z,clear_vbl_1 ;Wait for VBL to finish count_ticks: INC HL ;8 NOP ;4 NOP ;4 NOP ;4 NOP ;4 NOP ;4 NOP ;4 NOP ;4 NOP ;4 NOP ;4 NOP ;4 NOP ;4 IN A,(STAT) ;12 AND B ;4 JP NZ,count_ticks ;12 ;-- ;80 LD A,0 OUT (BORD),A EI RET NOPs removed HL on exit (sometimes varies by 1 between calls) 0/1 5d8 2/3 67e 4/5 74e 6/7 859 8/9 9bd 10/11 bb0 Hopefully you can use this to help you track down where the error is :) (You mentioned you can't use your Sam at the moment). Going back to the bit you mentioned about screen contention being applied across the whole line rather than just two thirds - how about reducing the number of lines contended to 128 (2/3 of 192), so the overall slow down over a frame is correct. This might be an acceptable bodge in the meantime...? Anyway, hope some of that helps, and good luck :-) David Laundon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Sep 18 17:51:48 1999 From: Jarek Adamski To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:37:20 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 1.3.4 - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck Organization: PF "NABLA" Subject: Bye MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 196 Lines: 12 Hi! I quit. If someone wants to contact me, I am still at: yarek@sp7.zsk.p.lodz.pl And new versions of my products for sam will apear at: http://nautilus.torch.net.pl/zxland/ -- Yarek. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Sep 18 17:51:48 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop3.house Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:38:37 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 987 Lines: 22 At 10:01 pm +0100 17/9/99, Si Owen wrote: >It's the same for all video effects - the video state at the end of the >scanline is assumed to have been the situation for the entire line. It'll >take a good chunk more processing to be able to generate the display >correctly on the fly, but it'd be nice if it was done - probably as an >option, with the less accurate method for slower machines! Fair enough then; the scrolly message in the E-Tunes player is never displayed at the right hand side of the screen, so that will never be visible in SimCoupe's current implementation. I can imagine how it would be difficult to simulate those sort of fast changes, but there will certainly be quite a lot of code which won't look right until it's done... Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Sep 18 18:01:06 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop3.house Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:47:17 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: RE: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 788 Lines: 18 At 5:40 pm +0100 18/9/99, David Laundon wrote: >Going back to the bit you mentioned about screen contention being applied >across the whole line rather than just two thirds - how about reducing the >number of lines contended to 128 (2/3 of 192), so the overall slow down over >a frame is correct. This might be an acceptable bodge in the meantime...? Gaggh! Surely anything that depends on that sort of exact contended timing would need accuracy over one line? I really, really doubt that averageing it over a frame would do a great deal to help... Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Sep 18 18:09:00 1999 From: "David Laundon" To: Subject: RE: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 18:08:11 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 271 Lines: 9 > Gaggh! Surely anything that depends on that sort of exact contended timing > would need accuracy over one line? I really, really doubt that averageing > it over a frame would do a great deal to help... > > Andrew Just a passing thought, that's all!!! David Laundon. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Sep 18 21:58:18 1999 From: davgw@clara.co.uk (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: MY MAGS Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:57:16 GMT Message-ID: <37e5fbaf.19114387@relay.clara.net> References: <138143183.937618828743.JavaMail.root@localhost> In-Reply-To: <138143183.937618828743.JavaMail.root@localhost> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 311 Lines: 13 Adie, I think Kev Cooper's got all your old disk mags - but he can't convert them and probably wont part with them - unless you can be bothered asking him? :-) BTW - you deliberately spelt my name wrong . I'd email you direct but I don't want to get caught in your kill filter. :) TTFN Dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Sep 18 22:17:42 1999 by localhost with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 22:13:03 -0000 Message-ID: <138135786.937692783649.JavaMail.root@localhost> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:13:03 +0000 (GMT) From: surfin_usm@absobloodylutely.co.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: MY MAGS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="138137864.937692783593.JavaMail.root@www2.funmail.co.uk" X-Funmail-UID: 183619 X-Senders-IP: unknown X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 627 Lines: 16 --138137864.937692783593.JavaMail.root@www2.funmail.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh bugger. Dave W, did U just reply to this message? If so, could you send it to me again (adie@alphabetty.co.uk) cos I pressed 'delete' before I read it. Ahem. ::adie-usm:: www.alphabetty.co.uk "The cool people know who the cool people are" ---------------------------------------------------------- "like Hotmail but faster and a lot better" Carol Vorderman, The Mirror, writing about http://www.funmail.co.uk --138137864.937692783593.JavaMail.root@www2.funmail.co.uk-- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Sep 19 00:44:40 1999 From: "Will Easson" To: Subject: 5 1/4inch drives (was RE: MY MAGS) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:44:53 +0100 Message-ID: <000101bf022f$ce5727c0$9d95fea9@lucifer4> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <37e5fbaf.19114387@relay.clara.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1122 Lines: 40 Is Kev Cooper on this list?! Did you ever get those 5 1/4inch drives going? I couldn't make head nor tail out of the photos you sent me..! Mine ran on *batteries* for crying out loud! I couldn't get the damn PC power supply to work! Will ********************************************** William Easson BVMS MRCVS, Veterinary Surgeon willvet@exoticsvet.com http://www.exoticsvet.com Ashfield House Vet Hospital, Long Eaton, Nottingham, UK. Member of ARAV, AAV, BVZS, BVA, BSAVA. Fax UK: 0870 088 3870 USA: (603) 687 2978 ********************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no]On > Behalf Of Dave Whitmore > Sent: 18 September 1999 21:57 > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > Subject: Re: MY MAGS > > > Adie, > > I think Kev Cooper's got all your old disk mags - but he can't convert > them and probably wont part with them - unless you can be bothered > asking him? :-) > > BTW - you deliberately spelt my name wrong . I'd email > you direct but I don't want to get caught in your kill filter. :) > > TTFN > > Dave > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Sep 19 10:45:25 1999 From: davgw@clara.co.uk (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: 5 1/4inch drives (was RE: MY MAGS) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:44:22 GMT Message-ID: <37e4b035.465357@relay.clara.net> References: <000101bf022f$ce5727c0$9d95fea9@lucifer4> In-Reply-To: <000101bf022f$ce5727c0$9d95fea9@lucifer4> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 228 Lines: 10 On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:44:53 +0100 Sun, 19 Sep 99 10:38:28 BST, "Will Easson" wrote: >Is Kev Cooper on this list?! If he isn't (he dips in and out of here), he can be mailed at kev@kc.u-net.com Dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Sep 19 14:37:26 1999 Message-ID: <00a501bf0299$b35afe00$8d837ed4@persona> From: "David L" To: References: <37E4E022.A5A00058@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: The break button? Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:22:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 554 Lines: 18 NMI jump... I'm sure some of the clever people here (or that other nice gentleman who's now left due to bickerng) can help... ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Harte To: SAM Mailing List Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 2:07 PM Subject: The break button? So I am wondering what I am meant to be doing about the break button? It is clearly not just shift+space as on the ZX Spectrum, and pressing it causes my code to crash horribly. Is it forcing some sort of RST related interrupt? -Thomas From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Sep 19 14:37:26 1999 Message-ID: <37E4E022.A5A00058@btinternet.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:07:46 +0100 From: Thomas Harte X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-* MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SAM Mailing List Subject: The break button? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id OAA14002 Status: RO Content-Length: 478 Lines: 10 I'm busy writing my first SAM Coupé game, and so far the results are encouraging - I have a rotatable spaceship and asteroids that sort of rotate of their own free accord and move about. No gameplay or anything, but I'm only a learner. So I am wondering what I am meant to be doing about the break button? It is clearly not just shift+space as on the ZX Spectrum, and pressing it causes my code to crash horribly. Is it forcing some sort of RST related interrupt? -Thomas From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Sep 19 14:45:35 1999 X-Warning: Original message contained 8-bit characters, however during the SMTP transport session the receiving system was unable to announce capability of receiving 8-bit SMTP (RFC 1651-1653), and as this message does not have MIME headers (RFC 2045-2049) to enable encoding change, we had very little choices. X-Warning: We ASSUME it is less harmful to add the MIME headers, and convert the text to Quoted-Printable, than not to do so, and to strip the message to 7-bits.. (RFC 1428 Appendix A) X-Warning: We don't know what character set the user used, thus we had to write these MIME-headers with our local system default value. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Message-ID: <000d01bf02a4$e50eaea0$013563c3@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <37E4E022.A5A00058@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: The break button? Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:43:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id OAA14059 Status: RO Content-Length: 789 Lines: 28 Its jumping to address 0x0066 , its a Non Maskable inturpt , a RETI ( or RETN ) @ that loctaion will stop it period :) C ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Harte To: SAM Mailing List Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 2:07 PM Subject: The break button? I'm busy writing my first SAM Coupé game, and so far the results are encouraging - I have a rotatable spaceship and asteroids that sort of rotate of their own free accord and move about. No gameplay or anything, but I'm only a learner. So I am wondering what I am meant to be doing about the break button? It is clearly not just shift+space as on the ZX Spectrum, and pressing it causes my code to crash horribly. Is it forcing some sort of RST related interrupt? -Thomas From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Sep 19 15:07:56 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop3.house Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37E4E022.A5A00058@btinternet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:05:46 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Re: The break button? X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1108 Lines: 34 > So I am wondering what I am meant to be doing about the break >button? It is >clearly not just shift+space as on the ZX Spectrum, and pressing it causes my >code to crash horribly. Is it forcing some sort of RST related interrupt? > > -Thomas The break button is linked to a pin on the Z80 called NMI, the non-maskable interrupt. When you press it, the processor calls &66 (102 d). You can either ignore it totally (put RETN at that location), do something magic yourself, or break back to the ROM: 100: OUT (LMPR),a 102: LD a,31 JR 100 Note that the Sam's break button is bouncy, ie that the address will be called many many times. If you don't deal with it very quickly, the stack will fill up. I think an unmodified button will send about 3000 interrupts to the processor (but this probably varies between Sams and depends on the age of the circuitry). Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 10:11:33 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:07:04 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Defender on SimCoupe (Was: Defender Source Code) In-Reply-To: <007f01bf013a$18119680$64a5fea9@simcooke3> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1206 Lines: 31 On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Simon Cooke wrote: > From: David Laundon > > Andrew Collier wrote: > > > Internal, in this context, refers to whether or not it is the ASIC > itself > > > which handles these ports. Eg, it handles the MIDI interactions so that > is > > > internal, but there is a seperate sound chip so those ports are classed > > > external. The floppy ports are also so a seperate chip, and I think the > > > printer ports are external too. > > > > Oh, I always thought the sound chip was affected in the same way. > > Mmmm... I think the contention comes in when the ASIC has to do the > port-decode and put that signal line out on the bus. Not 100% sure though. > So it'd affect the disc controllers, printer, sound chip, but not any other > external devices... Oh well. You're probably right. I might have a go at actually testing some of these, if I can dig out Ian's Z-states program, I know I've got a copy somewhere... Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 10:39:24 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:35:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: Aley Keprt To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe/DOS In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 952 Lines: 21 > > As I wrote, I can send the missing files. > > But I can serve only with the latest SimCoupe version (0.783a2). > > See, I can't even find a zip file of 783a2. The latest I can locate is a1. > Where do you upload these things, and can I suggest ftp.nvg.ntnu.no in > future? Look, 0.783a2 is not a public release, since it is too similar to 0.783a It could be nice to see the sources on NVG, of course. I would add ZLIB compression and then release new version. Currently the base address is www.inf.upol.cz/~keprta/sam There you can download 0.783a update. The base version 0.78 should be available either on NVG or at Allan Skillman's page. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 12:28:21 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:23:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: Aley Keprt To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: The SCART socket In-Reply-To: <37DBE543.DAA18617@btinternet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 842 Lines: 18 On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Thomas Harte wrote: > Just to say thanks for everyone who posted follow ups. Using the relevant > information I've been able to use a regular scart to scart and snip enough of > the 'un-necessary' wires to create a fully working lead! I'm probably now only > using the composite signal, but if it gets the picture to my TV, I'm not > bothered. Sam SCART uses standard output pins, and has additional output available on pins that wer originaly input-ones. So, I think standard SCART-to-cinch cable should work well. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 13:02:28 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:59:40 +0200 (MET DST) From: Aley Keprt To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Sam's worst ever game In-Reply-To: <001101bef34e$94e84040$410bf0d4@chris> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 603 Lines: 17 Well, What is the really worst ever game? Some weeks ago somebody said Parallax, Vegetable Vacation, or FutureBall. What is the worst one? When I understand "worst" as "unplyable" I must mention FutureBall, Vegetable Vacation, Sam Strikes Out and Coloris. (Also all the games written by me..... ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 13:27:54 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A6C5392801FC; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:21:25 -0400 Message-ID: <37E627AF.64AA7115@unbounded.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:25:20 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 926 Lines: 22 Aley Keprt wrote: > > Well, > What is the really worst ever game? > Some weeks ago somebody said Parallax, Vegetable Vacation, or > FutureBall. > What is the worst one? > When I understand "worst" as "unplyable" I must mention > FutureBall, Vegetable Vacation, Sam Strikes Out and Coloris. > (Also all the games written by me..... ;-) What was Coloris? Hmm, most unplayable game I have is probably Colony - I can never survive for more than a minute - it looks like it could be a great game with a bit of a rework. Best games - Stratosphere, Derf (Fred readers will remember this one) and a whole pile of other games come joint third, including Defender, Amalthea, Prince of Persia, Splat (no, really!), Ice Chicken, Lemmings. Most-hyped-game-that-turned-out-to-be-not-very-good goes to Legend of Eshan. Easiest game ever, The Witching Hour. (Slightly more info than just the worst game that you asked for, sorry ;) Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 13:46:53 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DA3@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:42:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 317 Lines: 13 The worst game, in my opinion, was Xenozoids. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gavin Smith [SMTP:gavinsmith@unbounded.com] > Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 1:25 PM > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game > > Aley Keprt wrote: > > > > Well, > > What is the really worst ever game? > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 13:46:54 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:38:24 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game In-Reply-To: <37E627AF.64AA7115@unbounded.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 764 Lines: 21 On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Gavin Smith wrote: > What was Coloris? A very simple Columns clone by, er, Stephan Haller, was that his name? Anyway, I don't remember this ever being distributed except on nvg. It had (unoriginal) music by Ziutek of ESI, and really small graphics only using about a quarter of the screen. It always seemed to me that his random number generator was broken, and it seemed to give *a lot* of tiles which were three of the same colour. Another Columns clone STAX by Wayne Coles, which was much better... Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 14:24:27 1999 X-sendmail-revision: 19-Sep-1999 (24) by ant@tissoft.co.uk Message-ID: <005b01bf036a$bd148ac0$3701a8c0@tistemp3.tissoft.co.uk> From: "Nick Humphries" To: Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:19:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 337 Lines: 17 From: Andrew Collier >On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Gavin Smith wrote: > >> What was Coloris? > >A very simple Columns clone by, er, Stephan Haller, was that his name? The best Columns game on the SAM was the one on one of the Arcadia disks - used to play that for hours, I think my longest game was about 1h 30... Nick From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 17:24:16 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AAD4983802A2; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:03:32 -0400 Message-ID: <37E65BBE.77BD80CD@unbounded.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:07:27 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Still no rest for the Z80... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 58 Lines: 3 http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19990920S0013 Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 23:27:19 1999 From: "Johnna Teare" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:20:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game In-reply-to: <37E627AF.64AA7115@unbounded.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 575 Lines: 22 On 20 Sep 99, at 13:25, Gavin Smith wrote: > Most-hyped-game-that-turned-out-to-be-not-very-good goes to Legend of > Eshan. Hurrah! Somebody who agrees with me. I remember reviewing this for SAM2Sam and giving it something like 9% and I got loads of stick for it. Not the worst game ever, but the biggest disappointment. Worst game...vegetable vacation...looks great, but nothing to play with...fnar... Peace, Love and Kisses, JohnnaPig Teare http://www.theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 48928093 "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 23:27:20 1999 From: "Johnna Teare" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:20:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: <37E627AF.64AA7115@unbounded.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 604 Lines: 26 On 20 Sep 99, at 13:38, Andrew Collier wrote: > Another Columns clone STAX by Wayne Coles, which was much better... STAX was fantastic - the best freebie game ever, save for Tetris. > > Andrew > > -- > -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other > -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a > -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file > -- > > Peace, Love and Kisses, JohnnaPig Teare http://www.theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 48928093 "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 23:27:20 1999 From: "Johnna Teare" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:20:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game In-reply-to: <005b01bf036a$bd148ac0$3701a8c0@tistemp3.tissoft.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 415 Lines: 23 On 20 Sep 99, at 14:19, Nick Humphries wrote: > The best Columns game on the SAM was the one on one of the Arcadia disks - > used to play that for hours, I think my longest game was about 1h 30... > Wasn't that Coloris? iirc > Nick > > > > > Peace, Love and Kisses, JohnnaPig Teare http://www.theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 48928093 "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 23:45:19 1999 Message-ID: <37E6B85C.1B3862AD@bonbon.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:42:36 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 785 Lines: 33 Johnna Teare wrote: > > On 20 Sep 99, at 13:25, Gavin Smith wrote: > > > Most-hyped-game-that-turned-out-to-be-not-very-good goes to Legend of > > Eshan. > > Hurrah! Somebody who agrees with me. I remember reviewing this > for SAM2Sam and giving it something like 9% and I got loads of > stick for it. > > Not the worst game ever, but the biggest disappointment. > > Worst game...vegetable vacation...looks great, but nothing to play > with...fnar... What is vegetable vacation?/ :) I long to see it... (well, perhaps not that much) Btw. where did the whole fnar fnar thing come from? In my head its a peculiarly 'Sam' thing (probably Fred, i can't imagine it being Format :o>)... Hmph. Martin Fitz -- Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 23:56:20 1999 Message-ID: <000b01bf03ba$0d4836a0$31611c26@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <37E6B85C.1B3862AD@bonbon.net> Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:46:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 192 Lines: 7 > Btw. where did the whole fnar fnar thing come from? In my head its a > peculiarly 'Sam' thing (probably Fred, i can't imagine it being Format > :o>)... It's from Your Sinclair ;) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 23:56:20 1999 Message-ID: <37E6B982.A74D799B@bonbon.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:47:31 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: <37E627AF.64AA7115@unbounded.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 646 Lines: 25 Johnna Teare wrote: > > On 20 Sep 99, at 13:38, Andrew Collier wrote: > > > > Another Columns clone STAX by Wayne Coles, which was much better... > > STAX was fantastic - the best freebie game ever, save for Tetris. Would that be the tetris thing with the picture of that lass behing the blocks things?... I remember (when aaah was a ladd) getting a seriously distrubing interest in the Sam coupe, purely because it had a fit (or 'fine' for the americans :o>) girl on it... They were like "wow.. phwooaar this is an ace computer".. ..it was liverpool after all Fitz -- Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Sep 20 23:56:22 1999 From: "Johnna Teare" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:52:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game In-reply-to: <37E6B85C.1B3862AD@bonbon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 536 Lines: 28 On 20 Sep 99, at 23:42, Martin Fitzpatrick wrote: > Btw. where did the whole fnar fnar thing come from? In my head its a > peculiarly 'Sam' thing (probably Fred, i can't imagine it being Format > :o>)... Your Sinclair methinks. And zucchini to you too. > > Hmph. > > Martin Fitz > > -- > Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net > ICQ#: 11077801 > AOL/CServeIM: Flupert > Peace, Love and Kisses, JohnnaPig Teare http://www.theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 48928093 "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 00:08:38 1999 Message-ID: <37E6BDDB.2FE73E56@bonbon.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:06:03 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: <37E6B85C.1B3862AD@bonbon.net> <000b01bf03ba$0d4836a0$31611c26@simcooke3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 514 Lines: 21 Simon Cooke wrote: > > > Btw. where did the whole fnar fnar thing come from? In my head its a > > peculiarly 'Sam' thing (probably Fred, i can't imagine it being Format > > :o>)... > > It's from Your Sinclair ;) Ahh thats right :)... Ahh.. the remeniscing :).... Them were the days... (etc. etc.)... Who'd have thought it'd still be affecting my vocabulary today.. No wonder people give me weird looks sometimes when i say it. Fitz -- Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 00:17:46 1999 Message-ID: <00db01bf03b4$b2e7de40$0b5808c3@persona> From: "David L" To: References: <37E6B85C.1B3862AD@bonbon.net> <000b01bf03ba$0d4836a0$31611c26@simcooke3> <37E6BDDB.2FE73E56@bonbon.net> Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:08:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 448 Lines: 13 ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Fitzpatrick To: Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 12:06 AM Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game > Ahh thats right :)... Ahh.. the remeniscing :).... Them were the > days... (etc. etc.)... Who'd have thought it'd still be affecting my > vocabulary today.. No wonder people give me weird looks sometimes when > i say it. All I can say to that is Wibble! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 08:06:18 1999 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: sskardon@argonet.co.uk (Stewart Skardon) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:02:14 +0100 X-Organization: ArgoNet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.23 for RISC OS 3.70 Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 941 Lines: 37 On Mon 20 Sep 1999 (23:20:30), johnnapig@theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk wrote: > > >On 20 Sep 99, at 14:19, Nick Humphries wrote: > >> The best Columns game on the SAM was the one on one of the Arcadia >disks - >> used to play that for hours, I think my longest game was about 1h >30... >> > >Wasn't that Coloris? iirc > Nope. Take a look for yourselves. Arcadia 1 is available on DSK file at http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/arc1.zip I too used to spend hours on end playing Columns. And it was mainly BASIC. My worst game ever had to be the 'Mindgames' collection. I can't believe that it was even released. Cheers, Stewart -- _ (_'tewart email : sskardon@argonet.co.uk ,_)kardon http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/stewart/ ICQ : 18283999 * * * Stewart's SAM Coupe Information Pages. * * * http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 10:10:56 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DAE@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:00:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 495 Lines: 13 >Would that be the tetris thing with the picture of that lass behing the >blocks things?... I remember (when aaah was a ladd) getting a seriously >distrubing interest in the Sam coupe, purely because it had a fit (or >'fine' for the americans :o>) girl on it... They were like "wow.. >phwooaar this is an ace computer".. So.. I wasn't the only guy to like that lass, then! :) Who was she, anyway? I remember the scrolly saying something like the piccy was taken from the Archemedes.. Justin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 10:10:59 1999 X-sendmail-revision: 19-Sep-1999 (24) by ant@tissoft.co.uk Message-ID: <00fe01bf040e$e9ccf580$3701a8c0@tistemp3.tissoft.co.uk> From: "Nick Humphries" To: Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:54:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 247 Lines: 12 From: Stewart Skardon >My worst game ever had to be the 'Mindgames' collection. I can't believe that >it was even released. Well it WAS released during the "Horace Goes Skiing" phase of SAM games development... Nick From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 10:42:55 1999 Message-ID: <753866CAB183D211883F0090271F46C201298B5A@COW> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dan_Door=E9?= To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:20:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 356 Lines: 13 > Who was she, anyway? I remember the scrolly saying something > like the piccy was taken from the Archemedes.. She was in 8 greyscales plus there was something dodgy going on with her lips. It always looked like the cropped top of a porn picture to me :-) Not that I played it a lot or anything... Dan. P.S. Thanks for the black-back logo Mr Cooke! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 10:42:55 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DAF@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Still no rest for the Z80... Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:26:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 315 Lines: 11 The chance of anyone looking into eZ80 for the SAM? :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Gavin Smith [SMTP:gavinsmith@unbounded.com] > Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 5:07 PM > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > Subject: Still no rest for the Z80... > > http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19990920S0013 > > Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 11:04:54 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DB1@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:51:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id LAA05921 Status: RO Content-Length: 694 Lines: 26 Sounds intruiging... Damn.. I gotta load it up again, now.. I don't remember anything dodgy going on with her lips... Jut. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Dooré [SMTP:dan@armature.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 10:20 AM > To: 'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no' > Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game > > > Who was she, anyway? I remember the scrolly saying something > > like the piccy was taken from the Archemedes.. > > She was in 8 greyscales plus there was something dodgy going on with her > lips. > > It always looked like the cropped top of a porn picture to me :-) > > Not that I played it a lot or anything... > > Dan. > > P.S. Thanks for the black-back logo Mr Cooke! From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 11:29:23 1999 via SMTP by mailserv.caiw.nl, id smtpdAAAa05659; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:07:22 +0200 Message-ID: <021e01bf0418$de197600$9d5d88d4@oemcomputer> From: "Robert van der Veeke" To: References: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DAF@mailhost.aculab.com> Subject: Re: Still no rest for the Z80... Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:05:41 +0200 Organization: RJV graphics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 621 Lines: 23 ----- Original Message ----- From: Justin Skists To: Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 11:26 AM Subject: RE: Still no rest for the Z80... > The chance of anyone looking into eZ80 for the SAM? :) What i specially liked about it is this: -- The 8-bit version of the eZ80 family will be priced from $3 to $10 based on configuration. The first product will begin shipping in early 2000 -- That's almost for nothing. Robert van der Veeke remove the pin to email Currently listening to : Card Captor Sakura - Ost The trick to walking upright is not to use you knuckles From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 14:06:49 1999 Message-ID: <37E7810A.ED47193B@bonbon.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:58:50 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DB1@mailhost.aculab.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 424 Lines: 19 Justin Skists wrote: > > Sounds intruiging... > > Damn.. I gotta load it up again, now.. I don't remember anything dodgy > going on with her lips... This has got me intrigued.... Sad that this is going to be what finally encourages to dig the Sam out off the shelf.. :).. Which disk was this on btw? Otherwise I'll be searching for hours... Fitz -- Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 14:27:57 1999 X-sendmail-revision: 19-Sep-1999 (24) by ant@tissoft.co.uk Message-ID: <017f01bf0433$cec603b0$3701a8c0@tistemp3.tissoft.co.uk> From: "Nick Humphries" To: Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:18:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 303 Lines: 13 From: Martin Fitzpatrick > >This has got me intrigued.... Sad that this is going to be what finally >encourages to dig the Sam out off the shelf.. :).. Which disk was this >on btw? Otherwise I'll be searching for hours... Fred 3 - the first SAM disk I ever bought :) Nick From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 14:27:58 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DB3@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:17:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 678 Lines: 25 To be honest, I have no idea... I know my copy of it is on a different disk. My guess is that it's from one of the Newsdisks that got sent out when MGT/SamCo was still in control. Justin > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Fitzpatrick [SMTP:poohsticks@bonbon.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 1:59 PM > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game > > This has got me intrigued.... Sad that this is going to be what finally > encourages to dig the Sam out off the shelf.. :).. Which disk was this > on btw? Otherwise I'll be searching for hours... > > Fitz > > -- > Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net > ICQ#: 11077801 > AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 14:27:58 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DB4@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:30:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 623 Lines: 26 Where on Earth did I get it from? I have no Fred disks at all... Was it ever on any YS tape? Justin > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Humphries [SMTP:nhum@tissoft.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 2:19 PM > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game > > From: Martin Fitzpatrick > > > > >This has got me intrigued.... Sad that this is going to be what finally > >encourages to dig the Sam out off the shelf.. :).. Which disk was this > >on btw? Otherwise I'll be searching for hours... > > > Fred 3 - the first SAM disk I ever bought :) > > Nick > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 14:44:54 1999 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:31:29 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game In-Reply-To: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DB4@mailhost.aculab.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 414 Lines: 15 On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Justin Skists wrote: > Where on Earth did I get it from? I have no Fred disks at all... > > Was it ever on any YS tape? Yes it was, and it's on nvg too. Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 15:01:54 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DB5@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:04:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 817 Lines: 31 A-ha!!! I got my copy from YS, then. and then copied it onto disk! Well, that's one mystery solved... now for the next one: why can't I get my code working here?!?!?!?!?!? Justin > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Collier [SMTP:asc25@cam.ac.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 2:31 PM > To: 'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no' > Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game > > On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Justin Skists wrote: > > > Where on Earth did I get it from? I have no Fred disks at all... > > > > Was it ever on any YS tape? > > Yes it was, and it's on nvg too. > > Andrew > > -- > -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other > -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a > -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file > -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 15:35:42 1999 Message-ID: <753866CAB183D211883F0090271F46C201298B67@COW> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dan_Door=E9?= To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:05:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 66 Lines: 5 > Fred 3 - the first SAM disk I ever bought :) Whoa! Snap! Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 16:21:51 1999 X-sendmail-revision: 19-Sep-1999 (24) by ant@tissoft.co.uk Message-ID: <004101bf0443$0cf5d2a0$3701a8c0@tistemp3.tissoft.co.uk> From: "Nick Humphries" To: Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:07:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id QAA13302 Status: RO Content-Length: 204 Lines: 15 From: Dan Dooré >> Fred 3 - the first SAM disk I ever bought :) > >Whoa! Snap! I wouldn't be surprised - that was the first disk to get a glowing review in a computer mag. Nick From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 18:00:49 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: More SimCoupe timings (was: Re: Defender on SimCoupe) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:57:58 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3166 Lines: 78 David Laundon wrote: > NOPs removed HL on exit (sometimes varies by 1 between calls) > 0/1 5d8 > 2/3 67e > 4/5 74e > 6/7 859 > 8/9 9bd > 10/11 bb0 I changed the uncontended timings to round them up to the next 4, as they should be, and I was getting values that were slighly higher yours. This was tracked down to being an error in the original 12/16 condition in the IN A,(n) implementation. The original code was: if (LineCycleCounter % 8) tstates+=4; which adds an extra 4 t-states if the cycle counter is not a multiple of 8. After this is done the original 12 t-states is added giving an instruction total of 16 t-states. However, since the original value wasn't 8 aligned, the new value isn't aligned either, so it's mis-aligned for the next instruction, which is wrong. The fix was just to reverse the condition to: if (!(LineCycleCounter & 7)) tstates += 4; Since an iteration of the main loop is 80 tstates (a nice multiple of 8) once the LineCycleCouner value is aligned it remains aligned, so (all INs take 12 t-states and the loop works fine - I now get exactly the same results as you for 0 to 11 NOPs. Naturally I thought that would mean the Defender loop would also be correct, but strangely it wasn't (tho IX was a consistent 0x4848). I single stepped through the first few loops and it was 80 t-states per loop as expected, but it was only doing 1481 iterations instead of the expected 1496. After a lot more logging I noticed that some of the INs were taking 16 t-states, so something was knocking the LineCycleCounter alignment out. The culprit was: if (LineCycleCounter==4) LineCycleCounter +=4; which was part of the end of scan line processing. I'd no idea why it was in and had just commented it as something to ask Allan about at some point! (Allan: if you're reading this, please explain!). I now see that it was a complete fluke that the Defender loop worked correctly before, but thankfully it does once more! > Hopefully you can use this to help you track down where the error is :) > (You mentioned you can't use your Sam at the moment). Thanks for the sample code, it's been extremely useful :-) > Going back to the bit you mentioned about screen contention being > applied across the whole line rather than just two thirds - how about > reducing the number of lines contended to 128 (2/3 of 192), so the > overall slow down over a frame is correct. Now the timing appears to be getting more accurate I think it'd be worth implementing it properly, even tho it does mean a couple more comparisons per Z80 instruction. I've also a few more questions that I hope someone can kindly help me out with: - Is mode 1 contended for all parts of every scanline, or is it still uncontended for the border strips of each line too? - For the 128 of the 384 tstates per scanline that aren't on the main screen, are 64 tstates spent in each border? or is it a little less to allow time for the beam to move back to the left of the display? (could that be what the extra 4 tstates were for?) Si ICQ: 9769343, Homepage: http://www.obobo.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 18:20:59 1999 Message-ID: <37E79095.E3945F29@bonbon.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:05:09 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: <37E6B85C.1B3862AD@bonbon.net> <000b01bf03ba$0d4836a0$31611c26@simcooke3> <37E6BDDB.2FE73E56@bonbon.net> <00db01bf03b4$b2e7de40$0b5808c3@persona> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1033 Lines: 34 David L wrote: > > > Ahh thats right :)... Ahh.. the remeniscing :).... Them were the > > days... (etc. etc.)... Who'd have thought it'd still be affecting my > > vocabulary today.. No wonder people give me weird looks sometimes when > > i say it. > > All I can say to that is Wibble! And another :)... Hmm... It's quite amazing the effect this had on me as a child (and now it seems..). I wonder how many new words they invented in their time.. Time for an investigation. Anyway... what is columns?... Is it a bit like that thing on the game gear... urm.. whatever it was called? Never quite as good as tetris was it. Its a shame nobody did a conversion of Daley Thompsons Super Test (or whatever) for the Sam.. I missed being able to knacker my joysticks (3 in total).. it was kinda comical when the handle dislodged itself and you carried on wiggling for a while before realising... Ahh... ...apart from that the game was utter pants. Fitz -- Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 18:33:55 1999 Message-ID: <753866CAB183D211883F0090271F46C201298B75@COW> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dan_Door=E9?= To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:30:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 657 Lines: 18 > Its a shame nobody did a conversion of Daley Thompsons Super Test (or > whatever) for the Sam.. I missed being able to knacker my joysticks (3 > in total).. it was kinda comical when the handle dislodged itself and > you carried on wiggling for a while before realising... Ahh... Wasn't Wayne Coles' Joystick Power a microswitch-mangler in the Decathlon tradition? I had a superb cheat device for Decathlon consisting of an alternate left-right wired rotary switch - It's in front of me now ;-) Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ "Oh no! The bridge is gone! Old Red just can't carry on!" From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 19:43:31 1999 Message-ID: <37E7D13E.7B20BF8E@btinternet.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:41:02 +0100 From: Thomas Harte X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-* MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: <37E627AF.64AA7115@unbounded.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 108 Lines: 5 > STAX was fantastic - the best freebie game ever, save for Tetris. Anywhere I can get a copy? -Thomas From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 22:08:36 1999 Message-ID: <004301bf04b7$ecf3f340$fa1cac3e@default> From: "Robert Wilkinson" To: "Sam Usergroup" Subject: Sams worst game ever Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:59:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 750 Lines: 32 Prince of Persia Good game Bad games, Have'nt got a clue. But why sod the disk up with a protection in that way. Why can't I make a back up disk. In my opinion, good game, worst marketing ploy. Otherwise games bore me to bits. ( most probably cos I cant program them).. Anybody prepared to teach me how to program a game. I have some Ideas but no Idea where to start. Z80 code please. NOW NAIL ME TO THE FLOOR............. PS . Can I assume that a new Sam can't be bought, seeing as nobody has bothered to answer my query. I could do with one to modify, but don't want to knacker the one I have. Its given nearly 10 years good service and I'm not prepared to rip it apart and re-modge it..... I WANT A PROJECT...... Bob Wilkinson.... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 22:46:08 1999 Message-ID: <000f01bf0477$ab81e7e0$64a5fea9@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <004301bf04b7$ecf3f340$fa1cac3e@default> Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:24:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 806 Lines: 18 > Otherwise games bore me to bits. ( most probably cos I cant program them).. > Anybody prepared to teach me how to program a game. I have some Ideas but no > Idea where to start. Z80 code please. Mmm... how about: try writing a shoot-em-up, where all of the sprites and game logic sit in the top 8k of a 32k pair of pages, and has 16 screens which are all pageflipped together to scroll the background image. It *can* be done (I've mocked up examples of it in the past, but never got around to writing it) .. the page flipping will even let you do full-on parallax scrolling canyons if you do it right (but they're harder to write back to the screen when you wipe the sprites off). You can even wipe to different backgrounds on the fly that way, between bad-guy waves... Want to give it a shot? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 22:46:10 1999 Message-ID: <000001bf0478$093f6740$6e2b893e@sadsnail> From: "Tim" To: References: Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:20:50 +0100 Organization: Sad Snail Productions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 717 Lines: 22 From: Aley Keprt > What is the really worst ever game? > Some weeks ago somebody said Parallax, Vegetable Vacation, or > FutureBall. > What is the worst one? EGGBuM ;-) Or possibly just picked to the post by Colony. I bought it coz I thought it might be a reasonable Sim* type game. Played it once, never again. Didn't find the documentation much use, and just didn't have the patience to work out what was going on. (I do hope the author isn't on this list and offended now.) There was some right tosh on Fred, but then there were gems as well so it evened out. Highlights: Soul Magician (damn sexy, one of the few games I played to the end), and One Man and His Frog. Tim ....@/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 22:46:10 1999 Message-ID: <002901bf0478$0009eba0$64a5fea9@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <37E6B85C.1B3862AD@bonbon.net> <000b01bf03ba$0d4836a0$31611c26@simcooke3> <37E6BDDB.2FE73E56@bonbon.net> <00db01bf03b4$b2e7de40$0b5808c3@persona> <37E79095.E3945F29@bonbon.net> Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:26:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 694 Lines: 19 From: Martin Fitzpatrick > David L wrote: > > > > > Ahh thats right :)... Ahh.. the remeniscing :).... Them were the > > > days... (etc. etc.)... Who'd have thought it'd still be affecting my > > > vocabulary today.. No wonder people give me weird looks sometimes when > > > i say it. > > > > All I can say to that is Wibble! > > And another :)... Hmm... It's quite amazing the effect this had on me > as a child (and now it seems..). I wonder how many new words they > invented in their time.. Time for an investigation. Just had another thought... fnar may have arrived at YS by way of Viz... or it might have been the other way around. Not sure though... Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 22:46:11 1999 From: "Johnna Teare" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:34:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game In-reply-to: <37E79095.E3945F29@bonbon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 858 Lines: 29 On 21 Sep 99, at 15:05, Martin Fitzpatrick wrote: > > > David L wrote: > > > > > Ahh thats right :)... Ahh.. the remeniscing :).... Them were the > > > days... (etc. etc.)... Who'd have thought it'd still be affecting my > > > vocabulary today.. No wonder people give me weird looks sometimes > > > when i say it. > > > > All I can say to that is Wibble! > > And another :)... Hmm... It's quite amazing the effect this had on me as > a child (and now it seems..). I wonder how many new words they invented > in their time.. Time for an investigation. > > Anyway... what is columns?... Is it a bit like that thing on the game > gear... urm.. whatever it was called? Erm...columns? Peace, Love and Kisses, JohnnaPig Teare http://www.theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 48928093 "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 22:46:11 1999 From: "Johnna Teare" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:37:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game In-reply-to: <37E7D13E.7B20BF8E@btinternet.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 462 Lines: 22 On 21 Sep 99, at 19:41, Thomas Harte wrote: > > STAX was fantastic - the best freebie game ever, save for Tetris. > > Anywhere I can get a copy? FREd - forget the issue number ... (checks disk box) ...bugger - can't find it! Remember Santa Goes Psycho? I loved that aswell! > > -Thomas > Peace, Love and Kisses, JohnnaPig Teare http://www.theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 48928093 "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 23:16:48 1999 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: sskardon@argonet.co.uk (Stewart Skardon) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:47:22 +0100 X-Organization: ArgoNet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.23 for RISC OS 3.70 Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 633 Lines: 29 On Mon 20 Sep 1999 (23:42:36 +0100), poohsticks@bonbon.net wrote: > > >Johnna Teare wrote: >> >> On 20 Sep 99, at 13:25, Gavin Smith wrote: >> [Snip] > >What is vegetable vacation?/ :) I long to see it... (well, perhaps not >that much) If you are desperate, there is a DSK image of the playable demo on my site....URL below. Stewart. -- _ (_'tewart email : sskardon@argonet.co.uk ,_)kardon http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/stewart/ ICQ : 18283999 * * * Stewart's SAM Coupe Information Pages. * * * http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 23:16:48 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AC4B28B025C; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:44:43 -0400 Message-ID: <37E7FD67.D7922139@unbounded.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:49:29 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever References: <004301bf04b7$ecf3f340$fa1cac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1073 Lines: 24 Robert Wilkinson wrote: > PS . Can I assume that a new Sam can't be bought, seeing as nobody has > bothered to answer my query. > > I could do with one to modify, but don't want to knacker the one I have. Its > given nearly 10 years good service and I'm not prepared to rip it apart and > re-modge it..... You want a *new* SAM to modify? Hmm! Well if you do want a new one, Bob Brenchley at Format sold them, but he has disappeared off the face of the earth at the moment, although there are rumours he may reappear (think it's been one of those alien abduction things). If you're looking for a second hand SAM, keep an eye on www.loot.com - there's a SAM every few weeks or so for sale in it. I'm sure we can get you a second hand SAM somewhere... As for your coding question, not being the best machine coder in the world, I won't answer this one, except to say that both Fred and Blitz (and others) ran machine code tutorials, although I'm not quite sure where you would get hold of said magazines at the moment...hopefully that will all be sorted out soon. Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 23:16:51 1999 Message-ID: <003c01bf0475$2cd4ede0$325808c3@persona> From: "David L" To: References: <37E627AF.64AA7115@unbounded.com> <37E7D13E.7B20BF8E@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:06:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 338 Lines: 14 ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Harte To: Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 7:41 PM Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game > > STAX was fantastic - the best freebie game ever, save for Tetris. > > Anywhere I can get a copy? We had a copy on Blitz - cant remmeber which issue From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 23:16:51 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADF32EC0252; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:51:47 -0400 Message-ID: <37E7FF0F.8171EBE1@unbounded.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:56:33 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 555 Lines: 19 Johnna Teare wrote: > > On 21 Sep 99, at 19:41, Thomas Harte wrote: > > > > STAX was fantastic - the best freebie game ever, save for Tetris. > > > > Anywhere I can get a copy? > > FREd - forget the issue number ... (checks disk box) ...bugger - > can't find it! > > Remember Santa Goes Psycho? I loved that aswell! Yes indeed, another gem! It was a Matt Round game wasn't it? All his games on Fred were superb, really excellently done, I haven't seen much else that has shown Gamesmaster off so well. Anyone know what he's up to these days? Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 23:16:52 1999 Message-ID: <37E80035.40844750@bonbon.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:01:25 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: <37E6B85C.1B3862AD@bonbon.net> <000b01bf03ba$0d4836a0$31611c26@simcooke3> <37E6BDDB.2FE73E56@bonbon.net> <00db01bf03b4$b2e7de40$0b5808c3@persona> <37E79095.E3945F29@bonbon.net> <002901bf0478$0009eba0$64a5fea9@simcooke3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1098 Lines: 35 Simon Cooke wrote: > > From: Martin Fitzpatrick > > David L wrote: > > > > > > > Ahh thats right :)... Ahh.. the remeniscing :).... Them were the > > > > days... (etc. etc.)... Who'd have thought it'd still be affecting my > > > > vocabulary today.. No wonder people give me weird looks sometimes > when > > > > i say it. > > > > > > All I can say to that is Wibble! > > > > And another :)... Hmm... It's quite amazing the effect this had on me > > as a child (and now it seems..). I wonder how many new words they > > invented in their time.. Time for an investigation. > > Just had another thought... fnar may have arrived at YS by way of Viz... or > it might have been the other way around. Not sure though... Ahh... as in "Buster Gonads, the man with the unfeasably large testicles"... or was it the other guy?... Hmm... something to do with double entendre (probably more likely?).. Ohh well.. If it went from YS to Viz, that must mean that the Viz people read YS... Possible. Fitz -- Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 23:16:52 1999 Message-ID: <37E8007E.6F397F9F@bonbon.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:02:38 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 870 Lines: 34 Johnna Teare wrote: > > On 21 Sep 99, at 15:05, Martin Fitzpatrick wrote: > > > > > > > David L wrote: > > > > > > > Ahh thats right :)... Ahh.. the remeniscing :).... Them were the > > > > days... (etc. etc.)... Who'd have thought it'd still be affecting my > > > > vocabulary today.. No wonder people give me weird looks sometimes > > > > when i say it. > > > > > > All I can say to that is Wibble! > > > > And another :)... Hmm... It's quite amazing the effect this had on me as > > a child (and now it seems..). I wonder how many new words they invented > > in their time.. Time for an investigation. > > > > Anyway... what is columns?... Is it a bit like that thing on the game > > gear... urm.. whatever it was called? > > Erm...columns? I knew that was going to happen. :) Fitz -- Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Sep 21 23:16:52 1999 Message-ID: <37E80190.11440F3D@bonbon.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:07:12 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: <753866CAB183D211883F0090271F46C201298B75@COW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id XAA20569 Status: RO Content-Length: 1479 Lines: 39 Dan Dooré wrote: > > > Its a shame nobody did a conversion of Daley Thompsons Super Test (or > > whatever) for the Sam.. I missed being able to knacker my joysticks (3 > > in total).. it was kinda comical when the handle dislodged itself and > > you carried on wiggling for a while before realising... Ahh... > > Wasn't Wayne Coles' Joystick Power a microswitch-mangler in the Decathlon > tradition? > > I had a superb cheat device for Decathlon consisting of an alternate > left-right wired rotary switch - It's in front of me now ;-) Hehe...Excellent - did it work? I always imagined that it would be quicker than the joystick to try using yer fingers on the keyboard, but it just wasn't possible. You should have marketed the rotary switch device. Just put some lightening logos, flames, and "Roto-Zappa!" in large red/yellow writing.. Nice black case.. etc. etc. It'd have sold millions.. £45 to you mate... Course, people might get a bit annoyed when they realised what it is. But a few hundred in your pocket, thankyouverymuch sir. I guess the thing wrong with Joystick Power is that it didn't have a large red blob (Daley Thompson - I'm talking *on screen* here, before I get sued) racing alongside a large green blob (Opponent chap). The canoeing was always the hardest bit.. after that it moved from being about pure wiggling and into timing & skill, which was beyond me... Fitz -- Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 00:35:08 1999 Message-ID: <003401bf04c9$d1ad5b00$231fac3e@default> From: "Robert Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re Preamble Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:06:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3361 Lines: 80 Thanks Gavin. Its nice to get an answer.. I might be able to get a second hand Sam from a friend who is happy to use Simcoupe.. Be nice if Simcoupe was finished.. I mailed Bob Brenchley about some stuff I did for the Spectrum (only after I queried a 64 col assembler I converted from 32 col version, and sent it to him for a look see.),(only works on Lunters emulator) This only after I queried wiring the printer interface internally and Bob B let me know I could get one from format. I have a printer interface, so don't need a new one dammit. NO RESPONSE.... I can code in M/C (Very basic) but have never coded sprites or graphics, and don't even know where to start. ( my M/C is self taught.) One Idea I have, is to program a train set, ie, You lay the track, put the landscape in, and set the trains running. Signals and crossings have to be included, as do changing points.Including new trains (freight or whatever would also be an option) Just as if you had a real train set, set up in the garden or loft. No strategy, No points to score, just a bog standard train set. You play the part of the signal keeper. Ambitious EH!!!. Well I would like to do it, but would need help. Once finished it would be availabel FREE to anyone that wanted it. It probably w'ont happen, but I can dream.(have done for a number of years). I never took Blitz, and all of my Fred magazines were lost in a catastrophie. So.... If anyone wants to donate some start code and info and remain commited,,, It might get started. I want something to get my teeth into. Be prepared for lots of ...What!!!!. I'm a good learner though. Oh by the way, although I have a real Sam, This all needs to work on the Simcoupe as well as a real Sam.... Why.?? Well, my Sam is ten years old, and nothing lasts for ever, Simcoupe will, so long as I always have a PC running Win 95 or Dos 6.2., and I always will. Stuff Win 98/2000 or beyond. I'm staying where I am, It works... Bob Wilkinson (author of Outwrite, before I ever saw a PC version of a word Proc)( before I even had a PC) Night night..... -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Smith To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 21 September 1999 14:51 Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever >Robert Wilkinson wrote: > >> PS . Can I assume that a new Sam can't be bought, seeing as nobody has >> bothered to answer my query. >> >> I could do with one to modify, but don't want to knacker the one I have. Its >> given nearly 10 years good service and I'm not prepared to rip it apart and >> re-modge it..... > >You want a *new* SAM to modify? Hmm! Well if you do want a new one, Bob >Brenchley at Format sold them, but he has disappeared off the face of >the earth at the moment, although there are rumours he may reappear >(think it's been one of those alien abduction things). If you're looking >for a second hand SAM, keep an eye on www.loot.com - there's a SAM every >few weeks or so for sale in it. I'm sure we can get you a second hand >SAM somewhere... > >As for your coding question, not being the best machine coder in the >world, I won't answer this one, except to say that both Fred and Blitz >(and others) ran machine code tutorials, although I'm not quite sure >where you would get hold of said magazines at the moment...hopefully >that will all be sorted out soon. > >Gavin > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 00:35:08 1999 Message-ID: <003501bf04c9$d463a160$231fac3e@default> From: "Robert Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:11:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1115 Lines: 36 Hi Simon Thanks for the response... Please see the response I made to Gavin Smith. Please see -----Original Message----- From: Simon Cooke To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 21 September 1999 14:51 Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever >> Otherwise games bore me to bits. ( most probably cos I cant program >them).. >> Anybody prepared to teach me how to program a game. I have some Ideas but >no >> Idea where to start. Z80 code please. > >Mmm... how about: try writing a shoot-em-up, where all of the sprites and >game logic sit in the top 8k of a 32k pair of pages, and has 16 screens >which are all pageflipped together to scroll the background image. It *can* >be done (I've mocked up examples of it in the past, but never got around to >writing it) .. the page flipping will even let you do full-on parallax >scrolling canyons if you do it right (but they're harder to write back to >the screen when you wipe the sprites off). You can even wipe to different >backgrounds on the fly that way, between bad-guy waves... > >Want to give it a shot? > >Simon > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 02:02:39 1999 Message-ID: <37E8209E.4E8AA08A@btinternet.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:19:42 +0100 From: Thomas Harte X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-* MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Re Preamble References: <003401bf04c9$d1ad5b00$231fac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3442 Lines: 64 > I might be able to get a second hand Sam from a friend who is happy to use > Simcoupe.. If you have two SAMs but don't wish to run them at the same time, I'll make you an offer for the spare power supply. Though Bob Brenchley has been really nice and sent me a new power supply -> SAM lead (just the other day actually) which I can fix at the power supply, I'm sure I'll only end up breaking it. And I'm quite enjoying my SAM again now I've finally got past my previous sticking point on Hexxagonia! > I can code in M/C (Very basic) but have never coded sprites or graphics, and > don't even know where to start. ( my M/C is self taught.) Conversely, I can code in M/C (very basic) but have only really bothered messing with sprites and graphics so far. To give you my quick history : I am on and off working on an emulator for various z80 based computers (ZX Spectrum 48kb and 128kb both work fine, Amstrad CPC is starting to do the expected stuff), and thought it might be interesting to extend what I had learnt into writing some programs for each. However, I really only own a SAM, so have been doing stuff for that too even though I could never hope to understand the timing well enough to code it into the emulator. I managed a Joust clone for the ZX as far as having four user controlled sprites flapping around with correct gravity goes, and so far have a rotatable Mode 4 2d vector space ship on SAM. > Oh by the way, although I have a real Sam, This all needs to work on the > Simcoupe as well as a real Sam.... Why.?? Well, my Sam is ten years old, and > nothing lasts for ever, Simcoupe will, so long as I always have a PC running > Win 95 or Dos 6.2., and I always will. Stuff Win 98/2000 or beyond. I'm > staying where I am, It works... I can't contribute any code that either wasn't really somebody else's or would be useful (64x64 maximum not very accurate Mode 4 line drawer? 8x8 any pixel Mode 1 or 2 sprite drawer?), but I thought I would at least offer to pass on an altered version of Andrew Colliers dskman program which does away with the menu and then loads a .dsk image file, throw a single file onto it and save it again with a different name - all via the command line. I found this infinitely less annoying than going through the dskman menu everytime I've assembled a new version of the code and want to test it on SIM. The advantage of loading a disk image file and saving to another is that I have one ready with dos and an auto file so that once my machine code file is added, I can just load SIM and hit F9. With dskman, if you load a disk file and try to save a file to it when another file with the same name exists already, you simply end up with two files with the same name, and then the SAM will load the first one in the directory listing - which is always the one that already existed. Pretty annoying before I knew dskman was doing that, trying to figure out why my fixed code wasn't fixed for about half an hour before realising I was still loading the code that wasn't. > Bob Wilkinson (author of Outwrite, before I ever saw a PC version of a word > Proc)( before I even had a PC) Outwrite is really great! I only saw version 2 when you released it, but I'm impressed with the improvement. Not least of all, the disappearance of that menu you used to drop back to in-between using the main bit of the word processor. Anyway, just say if you want the modified dskman. -Thomas From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 02:02:39 1999 Message-ID: <001d01bf0495$078a3700$410bf0d4@chris> From: "Chris White" To: References: <004301bf04b7$ecf3f340$fa1cac3e@default> Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:54:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 375 Lines: 18 Prince of Persia > Good game > > But why sod the disk up with a protection in that way. There is a version in 512 sectors somewhere ( so i Have been told :) ) > Why can't I make a back up disk. You can if you know how :) ( and i'm not getting into that argument again ) > In my opinion, good game, worst marketing ploy. But it did sell 1500+ Copies for Sam Co Chris From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 08:24:43 1999 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: sskardon@argonet.co.uk (Stewart Skardon) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:12:16 +0100 X-Organization: ArgoNet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.23 for RISC OS 3.70 Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 793 Lines: 33 On Tue 21 Sep 1999 (22:06:28 +0100), daveykins@theoffice.net wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Thomas Harte >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 7:41 PM >Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game > > >> > STAX was fantastic - the best freebie game ever, save for Tetris. >> >> Anywhere I can get a copy? > >We had a copy on Blitz - cant remmeber which issue > > Dunno about Blitz, but Stax can be found on issue 71 of FRED. HTH. Stewart. -- _ (_'tewart email : sskardon@argonet.co.uk ,_)kardon http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/stewart/ ICQ : 18283999 * * * Stewart's SAM Coupe Information Pages. * * * http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 09:08:30 1999 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:54:18 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Re Preamble In-Reply-To: <37E8209E.4E8AA08A@btinternet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 524 Lines: 15 On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Thomas Harte wrote: > With dskman, if you load a disk file > and try to save a file to it when another file with the same name exists > already, you simply end up with two files with the same name, Hey - I never claimed it was anything other than a quick hack.... Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 09:46:45 1999 Message-ID: <753866CAB183D211883F0090271F46C201298B77@COW> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dan_Door=E9?= To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sam's worst ever game Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:23:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 692 Lines: 20 > > I had a superb cheat device for Decathlon consisting of an alternate > > left-right wired rotary switch - It's in front of me now ;-) > > Hehe...Excellent - did it work? I always imagined that it would be > quicker than the joystick to try using yer fingers on the > keyboard, but it just wasn't possible. It worked fine, with a bit of broom-handle as a handle and a foot pedal stolen from a Stenorette (sp) tape machine for 'fire' More satisfying than the 'Run like hell' cheat in Hypersports under MAME I can tell you! :-) Dan. Work: dan@armature.com Shirk: dan@podboy.demon.co.uk VVeb: http://www.podboy.demon.co.uk/ "Oh no! The bridge is gone! Old Red just can't carry on!" From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 10:28:07 1999 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:28:07 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Message-ID: <19990922102807.A3422@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" References: <753866CAB183D211883F0090271F46C201298B77@COW> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C753866CAB183D211883F0090271F46C201298B77=40COW=3E=3B_f?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?rom_Dan_Door=E9_on_Wed=2C_Sep_22=2C_1999_at_09:23:44AM_+0?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?100?= Status: RO Content-Length: 494 Lines: 11 On Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 09:23:44AM +0100, Dan Dooré wrote: > > > I had a superb cheat device for Decathlon consisting of an alternate > > > left-right wired rotary switch - It's in front of me now ;-) > It worked fine, with a bit of broom-handle as a handle and a foot pedal > stolen from a Stenorette (sp) tape machine for 'fire' What if you attached the rotary switch to an exercise bike... then playing the game would actually do you some good and be a test of your performance. :o) imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 10:31:23 1999 X-sendmail-revision: 19-Sep-1999 (24) by ant@tissoft.co.uk Message-ID: <00d301bf04d9$d6829680$3701a8c0@tistemp3.tissoft.co.uk> From: "Nick Humphries" To: Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:07:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 466 Lines: 18 From: Chris White [Prince Of Persia] >But it did sell 1500+ Copies for Sam Co Hmmm... that's got me thinking... When SAMCo went down, Alan Miles put poor sofware sales down to putting demos on the NewsDisk - he complained that out of a user base of 1500, only five people ordered a copy of some shoot-em-up. How many copies did he EXPECT to sell? What percentage of people usually buy games as a result of playing a demo? Nick From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 11:05:55 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DB9@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sams worst game ever Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:40:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1077 Lines: 39 I remember wanting to buy Atomic Robokid after playing the demo on a YS tape... I was hooked on it from playing it on an Arcade machine. Even though the demo was slow, I was hoping the full release was faster - it just never came along! :( Then again, I wanted to buy it before I saw the demo... You're right - I don't think I ever bought a game due to it's demo. Justin. > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Humphries [SMTP:nhum@tissoft.co.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 10:07 AM > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever > > From: Chris White > > > [Prince Of Persia] > > >But it did sell 1500+ Copies for Sam Co > > > Hmmm... that's got me thinking... When SAMCo went down, Alan Miles put > poor > sofware sales down to putting demos on the NewsDisk - he complained that > out of > a user base of 1500, only five people ordered a copy of some shoot-em-up. > > How many copies did he EXPECT to sell? What percentage of people usually > buy > games as a result of playing a demo? > > Nick > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 11:05:55 1999 X-sendmail-revision: 19-Sep-1999 (24) by ant@tissoft.co.uk Message-ID: <010901bf04df$267652d0$3701a8c0@tistemp3.tissoft.co.uk> From: "Nick Humphries" To: Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:44:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 414 Lines: 14 From: Justin Skists >You're right - I don't think I ever bought a game due to it's demo. In the days before multimegabyte game demos, I'd read the game review first, play the demo if one was available, THEN buy it. ISTR various reports for the ECTS this year saying that the PS2 will crush the opposition just on the basis of a few technical demos they saw, which is stupid. Nick From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 14:17:18 1999 Message-ID: <37E8D2D4.DDDFD522@bonbon.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:00:04 +0100 From: Martin Fitzpatrick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 562 Lines: 30 Stewart Skardon wrote: > > On Mon 20 Sep 1999 (23:42:36 +0100), poohsticks@bonbon.net wrote: > > > > > >Johnna Teare wrote: > >> > >> On 20 Sep 99, at 13:25, Gavin Smith wrote: > >> > > [Snip] > > > > >What is vegetable vacation?/ :) I long to see it... (well, perhaps not > >that much) > > If you are desperate, there is a DSK image of the playable demo on my > site....URL below. Urmm.. the zip aint there. But the screenshot looks... urm.. weird. Why's the tomato purple? Fitz -- Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 14:17:19 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DBB@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sams worst game ever Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:16:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 949 Lines: 35 I think the PS2 will crush thee opposition anyway. It was always going to. Because: a) It will let you watch DVD stuff. b) It's backward compatible with the original PlayStation. c) I like the look of the casing. Whether it will cope with the future developments of Nintendo and Sega - Who knows? Justin. > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Humphries [SMTP:nhum@tissoft.co.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 10:45 AM > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever > > From: Justin Skists > > > >You're right - I don't think I ever bought a game due to it's demo. > > > In the days before multimegabyte game demos, I'd read the game review > first, > play the demo if one was available, THEN buy it. ISTR various reports for > the > ECTS this year saying that the PS2 will crush the opposition just on the > basis > of a few technical demos they saw, which is stupid. > > > Nick > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 15:29:49 1999 X-sendmail-revision: 19-Sep-1999 (24) by ant@tissoft.co.uk Message-ID: <016101bf04ff$dab54e70$3701a8c0@tistemp3.tissoft.co.uk> From: "Nick Humphries" To: Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:39:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 464 Lines: 17 From: Justin Skists >I think the PS2 will crush thee opposition anyway. It was always going to. > >Because: >a) It will let you watch DVD stuff. >b) It's backward compatible with the original PlayStation. >c) I like the look of the casing. The casing is very Sinclair-ish, isn't it? The PS2 logo looks very similair to the font used in the Sinclair logo. Reminded me very much of the Spectrum+. Not that that's a bad thing :) Nick From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 15:29:49 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: Re: Vortex Assembler - Update Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:11:02 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <01D6C7224936D211BA450000F805D5380555D8C8@TOTO> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 237 Lines: 9 Back in March, Si Cooke wrote: > Well, the assembler is proceeding apace... features so far include: Was it ever finished? If not, is it still being worked on at all? Si ICQ: 9769343, Homepage: http://www.obobo.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 18:09:46 1999 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: sskardon@argonet.co.uk (Stewart Skardon) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:58:13 +0100 X-Organization: ArgoNet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.23 for RISC OS 3.70 Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 652 Lines: 29 On Wed 22 Sep 1999 (14:00:04 +0100), poohsticks@bonbon.net wrote: > > >Stewart Skardon wrote: >> >> >> If you are desperate, there is a DSK image of the playable demo on my >> site....URL below. > >Urmm.. the zip aint there. But the screenshot looks... urm.. weird. >Why's the tomato purple? Ooops.....Fixed now. Thanks for telling me. > >Fitz > Stewart -- _ (_'tewart email : sskardon@argonet.co.uk ,_)kardon http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/stewart/ ICQ : 18283999 * * * Stewart's SAM Coupe Information Pages. * * * http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sskardon/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 18:52:51 1999 Message-ID: <37E914D8.6367@clara.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:41:44 +0100 From: Gordon Wallis Organization: HEXdidn't... X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever References: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DBB@mailhost.aculab.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id SAA17268 Status: RO Content-Length: 3107 Lines: 66 Justin Skists wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nick Humphries [SMTP:nhum@tissoft.co.uk] > > ISTR various reports for the > > ECTS this year saying that the PS2 will crush the opposition just on the > > basis > > of a few technical demos they saw, which is stupid. > > I think the PS2 will crush thee opposition anyway. It was always going to. > > Because: > a) It will let you watch DVD stuff. > b) It's backward compatible with the original PlayStation. > c) I like the look of the casing. > _If_ PS2 crushes the opposition, it'll be because people didn't learn from the original that the games are flash, unplayable crap (apart from a few gems). _If_ PS2 crushes Dreamcast it'll be because Sega didn't learn that obscure ads for a console don't sell games, therefore don't sell consoles. a) DVD compatibility will probably push the price back to the highs of the original PS release, and by then Dreamcast will probably have had it's price cut by about £50. £150 vs. £300..? b) Backwards compatibility? Why bother? Have you seen the prices of a new or second hand PS these days? Anyone who's already got a PS would be stupid to throw it out to make room for the new one unless it's got that common PS CD-skipping problem. Let's face it, with Sony making PS2, it it going to be much better in that department? c) You like the reconditioned CD-i look? Why should that mean it'll be a success? Certainly, PS2 will be a success. Sony's reputation will see to that. The fact is, most people that bought PS1 were not serious gamers, they just added it to their list of in-home entertainment (Sony HiFi, Sony TV and video, Sony PlayStation). They will buy the new one purely because it's new, and it's an upgraded model. Sure, they might buy a lot of games, but since they've never really gone in deep with games, they're not disappointed by the shallow trash they're always buying. On in-house arcade conversions alone, Sega have always trounced Sony. The closest Sony ever got to in-house arcade games was Namco's conversions. Look who's developing for Dreamcast... Also, what can PS owners expect from PS2? Endless streams of sequels to PS1 originals. On the advertising front, Sega have always been useless, and the DC ads are no exception. Unless I see game footage in the ads, I'm sure DC will fail pretty soon after it's release, in much the same way as the Saturn. Sony's adverts have always been flash, attention grabbing, and _relevant_. They _always_ show some of the game, even if they have to speed it up and show it very briefly. I doubt there's anyone out there who, having seen an ad for PlayStaion, or one of it's games, did not know what was being advertised. > Whether it will cope with the future developments of Nintendo and Sega - > Who knows? > Nintendo are pretty much out of the game, don't you think? Gord. (Mr Opinionated) -- < The HEXdidn't... Homepage: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < ------ Featuring The U.K. Policenauts Homepage ------ > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< http://www.hexdidnt.clara.net > \---------- AOL Instant Messenger: 'hexdidnt' ----------/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 18:52:51 1999 From: "Maria Rookyard" To: "SAM Users Mailing List" Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:47:15 +0100 Message-ID: <01bf0522$82fe6400$LocalHost@register> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 120 Lines: 8 Ah well, I've been off-list for about 6 weeks but I see I've not missed anything - still the same old sh!te Maria. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 18:52:52 1999 From: "Maria Rookyard" To: "SAM Users Mailing List" Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:48:02 +0100 Message-ID: <01bf0522$9e094da0$LocalHost@register> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 244 Lines: 10 Oops, did I say "same old sh*te"? Of course what I really meant was "the usual high standard of interesting discussion" ;-) It's nice to be back; anything exciting happened since the beginning of last month? Maria (glad to be back really!) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 20:44:22 1999 From: davgw@clara.co.uk (Dave Whitmore) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:23:31 GMT Message-ID: <37e92a53.15041898@relay.clara.net> References: <01bf0522$9e094da0$LocalHost@register> In-Reply-To: <01bf0522$9e094da0$LocalHost@register> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 264 Lines: 10 On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:48:02 +0100 Wed, 22 Sep 99 19:34:18 BST, "Maria Rookyard" wrote: > >It's nice to be back; anything exciting happened since the beginning of last >month? Yeah, another woman came in and stole your crown. :-) Dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 23:12:14 1999 From: "Maria Rookyard" To: Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:32:59 +0100 Message-ID: <01bf0542$0afa00c0$LocalHost@register> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 535 Lines: 25 Don't be stupid - if someone had removed part of my head I'd have noticed. Maria. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Whitmore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 22 September 1999 20:43 Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:48:02 +0100 Wed, 22 Sep 99 19:34:18 BST, "Maria Rookyard" wrote: > >It's nice to be back; anything exciting happened since the beginning of last >month? Yeah, another woman came in and stole your crown. :-) Dave From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 23:12:15 1999 Message-ID: <001d01bf0542$af69f340$64a5fea9@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: Subject: Re: Vortex Assembler - Update Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:37:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 736 Lines: 19 > Back in March, Si Cooke wrote: > > Well, the assembler is proceeding apace... features so far include: > > > Was it ever finished? If not, is it still being worked on at all? Currently, no - I'm trying to write some software for MSNBC so that I can pay the rent on the 1st of October.. my visa doesn't arrive for another 2-3 weeks *still*. So I'm doing this in the hope of keeping afloat until then- unless a Miracle happens with the US Govt... ... I'm not expecting one though :) The IDE was nicely coming along... the assembler wasn't doing too bad... once I rip all of the NDA-breaking stuff out of the editor (I was using it as my programming editor at MS for a while), I can let people see it if they like :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Sep 22 23:52:04 1999 Message-ID: <00d101bf058d$2492eec0$824a8cd4@default> From: "Robert Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Re Preamble Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:20:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2020 Lines: 51 > > If you have two SAMs but don't wish to run them at the same time, I'll make >you an offer for the spare power supply. Though Bob Brenchley has been really >nice and >sent me a new power supply -> SAM lead (just the other day actually) which I >can fix at the power supply, I'm sure I'll only end up breaking it. And I'm >quite enjoying my SAM again now I've finally got past my previous sticking >point on Hexxagonia! I haven't got the Secondhand Sam yet, and might not. But as for power supplies. Fixing the lead should cause no problems. If you use a monitor and not a TV, then building a supply with the right voltages should not be too difficult either. As a matter of interest, Amstrads CPC 6128 uses a power supply that looks exactly like Sams supply, the only difference outwardly is the colour. I suspect that MGT obtained said supplies and painted them. Best look on the Boot sales for a CPC, they go at silly prices. In the meantime, I have a CPC 6128, and will drag out the power supply and check the pinouts and voltages, and let you know. > I would be interested in seeing your code, if you don't mind, ( I won't rip it off though) > > I thought I would at least offer to pass on an altered version of Andrew Colliers dskman program which >does away with the menu and then loads a .dsk image file, throw a single file onto it >and save it again with a different name - all via the command line. I found >this infinitely less annoying than going through the dskman menu everytime >I've assembled a new version of the code and want to test it on SIM. Yes please... > > Outwrite is really great! I only saw version 2 when you released it, but I'm >impressed with the improvement. Not least of all, the disappearance of that >menu you used to drop back to in-between using the main bit of the word >processor. > I have version 3 now. It only works on a 512k sam. Lots of the basic has gone and been replaced with M/C.plus lots more features.. You're welcome to a look if you like... Bob Wilkinson From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 00:11:26 1999 From: "Johnna Teare" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:54:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game In-reply-to: <37E80190.11440F3D@bonbon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 576 Lines: 29 On 21 Sep 99, at 23:07, Martin Fitzpatrick wrote: > The > canoeing was always the hardest bit.. after that it moved from being about > pure wiggling and into timing & skill, which was beyond me... > This is where my girlfriend has problems with me. The pure wiggling bit I'm fine at. But the timing and skill... > Fitz > > > -- > Email: poohsticks@bonbon.net > ICQ#: 11077801 > AOL/CServeIM: Flupert > Peace, Love and Kisses, JohnnaPig Teare http://www.theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 48928093 "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 00:11:26 1999 From: "Johnna Teare" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:03:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever In-reply-to: <00d301bf04d9$d6829680$3701a8c0@tistemp3.tissoft.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id AAA26213 Status: RO Content-Length: 1689 Lines: 57 On 22 Sep 99, at 10:07, Nick Humphries wrote: > From: Chris White > > > [Prince Of Persia] > > >But it did sell 1500+ Copies for Sam Co > > > Hmmm... that's got me thinking... When SAMCo went down, Alan Miles put > poor sofware sales down to putting demos on the NewsDisk - he complained > that out of a user base of 1500, only five people ordered a copy of some > shoot-em-up. > > How many copies did he EXPECT to sell? What percentage of people usually > buy games as a result of playing a demo? I think the main point to be made was that the demos were pretty crap . Plasmoid (later to become Dyzonium) looked like a bad budget Speccy game. Great game maybe, but not anywhere near the class of DOFE to look at. Then there was Vegetable Vaction...nuff said. Batz n Ballz. Great game, but impossible to play without a mouse. Nobody i know can get past the demo on a keyboard or joystick. Manic Miner - a demo that worked well. Enough to give you a taster - two levels - and made me go out and buy the games. The simple fact is, if the games were worth buying, people bought them. But who wants to spend a tenner on stuff like Star Atlas (yes...I bought it!) and Splat when they can buy the same stuff (literally in the case of splat!) on teh speccy and run it under Lerm for less than £3. I think I bought more stuff _because_ of seeing it on Newsdisk than anything else. Otherwise, I would never have touched E Tracker, SCADs, SAS or the like. > > Nick > > > > Peace, Love and Kisses, JohnnaPig Teare http://www.theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 48928093 "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 00:11:27 1999 From: "Johnna Teare" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:04:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Sams worst game ever In-reply-to: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DB9@mailhost.aculab.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 676 Lines: 22 On 22 Sep 99, at 10:40, Justin Skists wrote: > I remember wanting to buy Atomic Robokid after playing the demo on a YS > tape... I was hooked on it from playing it on an Arcade machine. Even > though the demo was slow, I was hoping the full release was faster - it > just never came along! :( > > Then again, I wanted to buy it before I saw the demo... > > You're right - I don't think I ever bought a game due to it's demo. Prince Of Persia on the YS Megatape. Surely the reason most people were convinced. Peace, Love and Kisses, JohnnaPig Teare http://www.theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 48928093 "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 00:11:27 1999 From: "Johnna Teare" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:08:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game In-reply-to: <01bf0522$9e094da0$LocalHost@register> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 228 Lines: 8 And leave me alone for the goat thing. I'm from the Isle of Man... Peace, Love and Kisses, JohnnaPig Teare http://www.theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 48928093 "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 00:11:27 1999 From: "Johnna Teare" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:08:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game In-reply-to: <01bf0522$9e094da0$LocalHost@register> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 680 Lines: 31 On 22 Sep 99, at 18:48, Maria Rookyard wrote: > Oops, did I say "same old sh*te"? Of course what I really meant was "the > usual high standard of interesting discussion" ;-) > > It's nice to be back; anything exciting happened since the beginning of > last month? Three members havehad sex changes, we've all bought new computers and got rid of that heap of off-whit junk and we're now a list devoted to worshipping goats. But apart from that, not much. ;-) > > > Maria > (glad to be back really!) > > > Peace, Love and Kisses, JohnnaPig Teare http://www.theunstoppablesexmachine.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 48928093 "It won't get better but it might never get worse..." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 01:17:01 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A4A93451004C; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:22:17 -0400 Message-ID: <37E965A4.99757914@unbounded.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:26:32 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Teledisk shmeleshmisk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 581 Lines: 11 Aren't we all fed up with tdo files by now? I can't remember the last time I successfully got teledisk to give me an uncorrupted SAM disk...(and besides, I work mostly on a Mac now). It might also be a little off putting to newbies to find different file formats in NVG. How about someone takes the time to convert all the files into a .dsk file inside a .zip file? Surely that's gotta be the best compromise all round? Anyone got any objections to that? If not, it would be a nice thing to see happening, and I could finally download some of things from NVG that I want... Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 01:17:01 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop3.house Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:28:01 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Sam IN / OUT timings X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1148 Lines: 34 >* CLUT ---------------------------------------------------- > LD bc,CLUT 1 248 0 12 uts > LD a,127 62 127 8 uts > OUT (c),a 237 121 12 uts in-screen, 20 uts off-screen I've just realised that this particular result is nonsensical - eg, it would make most of my border scrollies impossible (usually a stream of OUT(c),r instructions to produce units 16 pixels wide) ... but the result is certainly there and can be confirmed. The sequence LD bc,CLUT : LD a,127 : OUT (c),a takes 40 ** uts to execute. This indicates that OUT (c),a takes 20 ** uts to execute. But on further experimentation, the sequence LD bc,CLUT : LD a,127 : OUT (c),a : OUT (c),a takes 56 *** uts to execute. So the sequence OUT (c),a : OUT (c),a must take 36 *** uts to execute. Dividing that by 2 doesn't give a very sensible answer... I think my previous investigation may have been too simplistic. Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 01:17:04 1999 X-Sender: asc25@pop3.house Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:12:50 +0100 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Andrew Collier Subject: Sam IN / OUT timings X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 3990 Lines: 113 I've done a few experiments into the INput and OUTput timings on the Sam. I used a program by Ian called "Z-States" which gives a visual indication of how long a short sequence of instructions has taken, both on and off the screen. Now, readers of Based On An Idea will recall that you can consider the Sam's clock in terms of "uncontended t-states" (there are four uncontended t-states for every 8 t-states in the contended screen area). Most instructions will take the same number of uncontended t-states in the screen or border areas (intructions which which do not access memory during contention may appear to save 4 uncontended t-states and are denoted *). So... I've tested various types of IN and OUT instruction against various Sam ports: VMPR, HMPR, CLUT, SOUND, MIDI, KEYBOARD. In short, their timings are all equivalent. 16* uncontended t-states for an IN a,(n) or OUT (n),a; 20** uts for an IN a,(c) or OUT (c),a. Question: Does SimCoupe currently use those values for the instruction time? What other ports should I try, which might not involve the added ASIC delay? Andrew Detailed results follow... Instruction. Z-80 raw timing. Expected Sam timings. OUT (n),a 11 12(+4) * OUT (c),a 12 12(+4) * IN a,(n) 11 12(+4) * IN a,(c) 12 12(+4) * * Reality Check Mnemonic M/Code LD a,n 62 n Always takes 8 uts. LD bc,nn 1 n n Always takes 12 uts. So far, so good. * VMPR ---------------------------------------------------- LD a,254 62 254 8 uts OUT (VMPR),a 211 252 12 uts on-screen, 16 uts off-screen LD bc,VMPR 1 252 0 12 uts LD a,254 62 254 8 uts OUT (c),a 237 121 12 uts in-screen, 20 uts off-screen IN a,(VMPR) 219 252 12 uts in-screen, 16 uts off-screen LD bc,VMPR 1 252 0 12 uts IN a,(c) 237 120 12 uts in-screen, 20 uts off-screen * HMPR ---------------------------------------------------- IN a,(HMPR) 219 251 12 uts in-screen, 16 uts off-screen LD bc,HMPR 1 251 0 12 uts IN a,(c) 237 120 12 uts in-screen, 20 uts off-screen * CLUT ---------------------------------------------------- LD a,127 62 127 8 uts OUT (CLUT),a 211 248 12 uts on-screen, 16 uts off-screen LD bc,CLUT 1 248 0 12 uts LD a,127 62 127 8 uts OUT (c),a 237 121 12 uts in-screen, 20 uts off-screen * SOUND --------------------------------------------------- LD a,28 62 28 8 uts OUT (255),a 211 255 12 uts on-screen, 16 uts off-screen LD bc,511 1 255 1 12 uts LD a,28 62 28 8 uts OUT (c),a 237 121 12 uts in-screen, 20 uts off-screen * MIDI ---------------------------------------------------- LD a,123 62 123 8 uts OUT (MIDI),a 211 253 12 uts on-screen, 16 uts off-screen LD bc,MIDI 1 253 0 12 uts LD a,123 62 123 8 uts OUT (c),a 237 121 12 uts in-screen, 20 uts off-screen IN a,(MIDI) 219 253 12 uts in-screen, 16 uts off-screen LD bc,MIDI 1 253 0 12 uts IN a,(c) 237 120 12 uts in-screen, 20 uts off-screen * KEYBOARD ------------------------------------------------ IN a,(KEYBOARD) 219 254 12 uts in-screen, 16 uts off-screen LD bc,KEYBOARD 1 254 254 12 uts IN a,(c) 237 120 12 uts in-screen, 20 uts off-screen ** Summary: OUT (n),a OUT (c),a IN a,(n) IN a,(c) VMPR 16 * 20 ** 16 * 20 ** HMPR 16 * 20 ** CLUT 16 * 20 ** - - SOUND - - 16 * 20 ** MIDI 16 * 20 ** 16 * 20 ** KEYBOARD - - 16 * 20 ** -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 01:17:04 1999 Message-ID: <000b01bf0557$10559100$17611c26@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:03:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 477 Lines: 17 > On 21 Sep 99, at 23:07, Martin Fitzpatrick wrote: > > > The > > canoeing was always the hardest bit.. after that it moved from being about > > pure wiggling and into timing & skill, which was beyond me... > > > > This is where my girlfriend has problems with me. The pure > wiggling bit I'm fine at. > > But the timing and skill... Just have a one-player game to increase your stamina beforehand, and then when you get into the game proper, listen for the audio cues... Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 01:17:05 1999 Message-ID: <001501bf0557$327b53a0$17611c26@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:04:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 226 Lines: 7 > Batz n Ballz. Great game, but impossible to play without a mouse. > Nobody i know can get past the demo on a keyboard or joystick. I can... I always thought that using a mouse on Batz n Balls was kind of cheating... Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 01:17:05 1999 Message-ID: <001b01bf0557$660a2de0$17611c26@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <37E965A4.99757914@unbounded.com> Subject: Re: Teledisk shmeleshmisk Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:05:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 866 Lines: 16 > Aren't we all fed up with tdo files by now? I can't remember the last > time I successfully got teledisk to give me an uncorrupted SAM > disk...(and besides, I work mostly on a Mac now). It might also be a > little off putting to newbies to find different file formats in NVG. How > about someone takes the time to convert all the files into a .dsk file > inside a .zip file? Surely that's gotta be the best compromise all > round? Anyone got any objections to that? If not, it would be a nice > thing to see happening, and I could finally download some of things from > NVG that I want... I've been wanting to do this for age, but none of the PCs I've usedhave allowed me to do it. I even contacted Sybex and asked them about the possibility of getting a hold of the old file format, but they wanted a LARGE chunk of money for their new product to do it. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 01:17:06 1999 Message-ID: <002301bf0557$979b6360$17611c26@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: Subject: Re: Sam IN / OUT timings Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:07:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 193 Lines: 9 > Question: Does SimCoupe currently use those values for the instruction time? > > What other ports should I try, which might not involve the added ASIC delay? Any below &E0, I believe... Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 02:22:15 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A3D11BCE004E; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:26:57 -0400 Message-ID: <37E974CB.143B5D04@unbounded.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:31:14 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game References: <000b01bf0557$10559100$17611c26@simcooke3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 689 Lines: 25 Simon Cooke wrote: > > > On 21 Sep 99, at 23:07, Martin Fitzpatrick wrote: > > > > > The > > > canoeing was always the hardest bit.. after that it moved from being > about > > > pure wiggling and into timing & skill, which was beyond me... > > > > > > > This is where my girlfriend has problems with me. The pure > > wiggling bit I'm fine at. > > > > But the timing and skill... > > Just have a one-player game to increase your stamina beforehand, and then > when you get into the game proper, listen for the audio cues... > > Si I often find a one-player game is just as enjoyable anyway, so if she complains about your lack of timing and skill, just do it, er play it alone. Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 02:22:15 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A4781CB8004E; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:29:44 -0400 Message-ID: <37E97572.4E3127B5@unbounded.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:34:01 +0100 From: Gavin Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Teledisk shmeleshmisk References: <37E965A4.99757914@unbounded.com> <001b01bf0557$660a2de0$17611c26@simcooke3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1187 Lines: 25 Simon Cooke wrote: > > > Aren't we all fed up with tdo files by now? I can't remember the last > > time I successfully got teledisk to give me an uncorrupted SAM > > disk...(and besides, I work mostly on a Mac now). It might also be a > > little off putting to newbies to find different file formats in NVG. How > > about someone takes the time to convert all the files into a .dsk file > > inside a .zip file? Surely that's gotta be the best compromise all > > round? Anyone got any objections to that? If not, it would be a nice > > thing to see happening, and I could finally download some of things from > > NVG that I want... > > I've been wanting to do this for age, but none of the PCs I've usedhave > allowed me to do it. I even contacted Sybex and asked them about the > possibility of getting a hold of the old file format, but they wanted a > LARGE chunk of money for their new product to do it. > > Simon When I said convert, I just meant for someone who can get teledisk to work successfully, to use it to make SAM disks of all the tdo files on NVG, and then fire them into a .dsk and zip them up. (And are they still developing Teledisk, the software of satan?) Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 05:27:01 1999 via SMTP by mailserv.caiw.nl, id smtpdAAAa14233; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:13:20 +0200 Message-ID: <002101bf0579$bb8c9ec0$d45d88d4@oemcomputer> From: "Robert van der Veeke" To: References: Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:11:37 +0200 Organization: RJV graphics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 526 Lines: 17 ----- Original Message ----- From: Johnna Teare To: Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 2:04 AM Subject: RE: Sams worst game ever > Prince Of Persia on the YS Megatape. > > Surely the reason most people were convinced. It worked for me. It was the first game i bought for the Sam Robert van der Veeke aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] Currently listening to : Card Captor Sakura - OST The trick to walking upright is not to use your knuckles From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 05:54:56 1999 Message-ID: <003101bf057e$7f3d3880$8a441c26@simcooke3> From: "Simon Cooke" To: References: <002101bf0579$bb8c9ec0$d45d88d4@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:45:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 380 Lines: 12 [Prince of Persia] > It worked for me. It was the first game i bought for the Sam > > Robert van der Veeke aka RJV Graphics Hmmm... I don't remember buying *any* games for the SAM... I *did* buy Etracker, but that's about it... ... mind you, I was given lots of games and things for free ;) (including Prince of Persia... but mind you, there's some of my code in there ;-)) Si From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 10:44:14 1999 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:44:14 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sam IN / OUT timings Message-ID: <19990923104414.A4630@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Andrew Collier on Thu, Sep 23, 1999 at 12:28:01AM +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 576 Lines: 16 On Thu, Sep 23, 1999 at 12:28:01AM +0100, Andrew Collier wrote: > >* CLUT ---------------------------------------------------- > > > LD bc,CLUT 1 248 0 12 uts > > LD a,127 62 127 8 uts > > OUT (c),a 237 121 12 uts in-screen, 20 uts off-screen > I've just realised that this particular result is nonsensical - eg, it > would make most of my border scrollies impossible Right, try repeating the experiment but inserting an extra NOP. This probably has to do with aligning to an 8-cycle boundary. imc PS you posted this with no References header. :o) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 10:51:45 1999 Message-ID: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DBC@mailhost.aculab.com> From: Justin Skists To: "'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'" Subject: RE: Sams worst game ever Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:14:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id KAA10928 Status: RO Content-Length: 2331 Lines: 66 > From: Gordon Wallis [SMTP:hexdidnt@clara.net] > >_If_ PS2 crushes the opposition, it'll be because people didn't learn >from the original that the games are flash, unplayable crap (apart from >a few gems). >_If_ PS2 crushes Dreamcast it'll be because Sega didn't learn that >obscure ads for a console don't sell games, therefore don't sell >consoles. I said that PS2 will crush the competition. Where in my emails did I say PS2 /should/ crush the competition? >a) DVD compatibility will probably push the price back to the highs of >the original PS release, and by then Dreamcast will probably have had >it's price cut by about £50. £150 vs. £300..? Probably. >b) Backwards compatibility? Why bother? Have you seen the prices of a >new or second hand PS these days? Anyone who's already got a PS would be >stupid to throw it out to make room for the new one unless it's got that >common PS CD-skipping problem. Let's face it, with Sony making PS2, it >it going to be much better in that department? And why did you buy your SAM? >c) You like the reconditioned CD-i look? Why should that mean it'll be a >success? Ever heard of "subtle humour"? Actually, I thought the casing on the PS1 was rather crap - especially the pop-up disk drive. Currently, I have my printer on top of it and it's bloody annoying juggling everything to put in a CD. >The fact is, most people that bought PS1 were not serious gamers, they >just added it to their list of in-home entertainment (Sony HiFi, Sony TV >and video, Sony PlayStation). I'm glad I'm not "most people"... (Panasonic portable stereo, Goldstar TV, Alba video) To me, the "few gems" make it all worth it. I only buy a game once in a blue moon. Actually, 'Metal Gear Solid' was actually the only game I can think of that I bought after playing the demo. I'll probably buy the PS2 a little while after the UK release (after the Christmas rush). I don't have a PC at home and, currently, I have no intention of buying one, so the inbuilt DVD player would be nice. I might buy the PS2 sooner if it has a decent Elite-style game. >> Whether it will cope with the future developments of Nintendo and Sega - >> Who knows? >> >Nintendo are pretty much out of the game, don't you think? Currently, yes... But I'm sure they will announce a new console pretty soon. Justin From imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 12:17:16 1999 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:17:16 +0100 From: Ian Collier To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Mode 1 contention Message-ID: <19990923121716.B4630@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Status: RO Content-Length: 996 Lines: 23 Here is an experiment. I'd do it myself if I thought there were any chance I would get round to it before the Millennium... Have a counting loop, say "lp: inc bc; jp lp" (note that this takes 20 cycles off-screen and 32 on-screen). Have an interrupt routine which says "pop hl; ei; ret". Now push a return address, push the address of the loop, set bc to 0, enable interrupts and halt. The first interrupt will cause a jump to the counting loop, and the next one will cause an exit to the return address. There you return the interrupts to normal and print out the value of bc. If the screen is off we expect an answer in the region of 5989. Someone else can calculate what we expect when the screen is on, but more importantly the answer gained in mode 1 will probably allow the contention behaviour to be inferred. Especially if you do the experiment again with a line interrupt set at the top of the screen (this will tell you if there is any contention in the top border area). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 14:37:37 1999 Message-Id: <011301bf05c2$b6b62d50$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: "Sam Users" Subject: NEW: SimCoupe 0.79 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:54:03 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1143 Lines: 32 New SimCoupe 0.79 ----------------------------- 1. new 32bit SAAemu 0.60, you don't need separate audio libraries anymore! (supports currently only OPL2, OPL3) 2. new floppy interface, can read/write GZipped SAD images!!! included utilities for Win32 and DOS: SBK - converts between real disks and SAD images 2sad - converts between DSK, SAD, GZipped SAD images SMD - works as Sam's MasterDOS for PC AT (!) note: SAAemu 0.60 is now available in Win32 version too. (I hope it will be included in the first Win32 release of SimCoupe. .....Who knows.....) note 2: Use SAD extension for packed images. All new and old SAD-using programs can simply detect, what format is it. So you don't need to use SAD.GZ. In addition, SAD can be autostarted in Windows etc., but SAD.GZ cannot, since GZ is ambiguous extension. Clear? ZLIB was used. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 14:37:38 1999 Message-Id: <012f01bf05c3$86554500$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: References: <001501bf0557$327b53a0$17611c26@simcooke3> Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:59:51 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 680 Lines: 21 > > Batz n Ballz. Great game, but impossible to play without a mouse. > > Nobody i know can get past the demo on a keyboard or joystick. > > I can... I always thought that using a mouse on Batz n Balls was kind of > cheating... > > Simon Yes, I didn't finish more than 2 levels on the keyboard. But, with the mouse..... it's great! (Hint: Play it in SimCoupe, if you can!) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 14:37:38 1999 Message-Id: <013501bf05c3$e3565230$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: References: <37E965A4.99757914@unbounded.com> <001b01bf0557$660a2de0$17611c26@simcooke3> Subject: Re: Teledisk shmeleshmisk Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:02:27 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id OAA15369 Status: RO Content-Length: 1551 Lines: 37 ----- Original Message ----- From: Simon Cooke To: Sent: 23. záøí 1999 2:05 Subject: Re: Teledisk shmeleshmisk > > Aren't we all fed up with tdo files by now? I can't remember the last > > time I successfully got teledisk to give me an uncorrupted SAM > > disk...(and besides, I work mostly on a Mac now). It might also be a > > little off putting to newbies to find different file formats in NVG. How > > about someone takes the time to convert all the files into a .dsk file > > inside a .zip file? Surely that's gotta be the best compromise all > > round? Anyone got any objections to that? If not, it would be a nice > > thing to see happening, and I could finally download some of things from > > NVG that I want... > > I've been wanting to do this for age, but none of the PCs I've usedhave > allowed me to do it. I even contacted Sybex and asked them about the > possibility of getting a hold of the old file format, but they wanted a > LARGE chunk of money for their new product to do it. > > Simon Yes, that's a big problem. I wanted to it too. But I couldn't get Teledisk work. I tried several PC's with no success. btw. GZipped SAD images are now preffered, SimCoupe can read them. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 15:40:32 1999 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:42:42 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Teledisk shmeleshmisk In-Reply-To: <013501bf05c3$e3565230$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 624 Lines: 18 On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Aley Keprt wrote: > Yes, that's a big problem. I wanted to it too. But I couldn't get Teledisk > work. I tried several PC's with no success. > > btw. GZipped SAD images are now preffered, SimCoupe can read them. Unless the disk is a standard Sam unprotected format, in which case a gzipped .DSK would be better because then Linux and MacOS users can read it too. Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 16:15:23 1999 From: "Maria Rookyard" To: Subject: Re: Sam's worst ever game Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:35:26 +0100 Message-ID: <01bf0596$33ebfc00$LocalHost@register> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 480 Lines: 27 -----Original Message----- From: Johnna Teare >> It's nice to be back; anything exciting happened since the >>beginning of last month? >Three members havehad sex changes, we've all bought new >computers and got rid of that heap of off-whit junk and we're now >a list devoted to worshipping goats. > >But apart from that, not much. > >;-) > You're right, nothing different or unusual around here then... Maria. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 16:15:23 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: Re: SimCoupe 0.79 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:52:16 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <011301bf05c2$b6b62d50$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 809 Lines: 23 Aley Keprt wrote: > 2. new floppy interface, can read/write GZipped SAD images!!! Is SAD version 2 just SAD version 1 in a gzip archive, or are there any other structural changes? Is gzipped DSK support too, as they're more commonly used. > note: SAAemu 0.60 is now available in Win32 version too. > (I hope it will be included in the first Win32 release of SimCoupe. > .....Who knows.....) I was waiting to hear back from you about it - is there anything I can try? I'd be interested in seeing Dave's hq stuff in action, but I've not got enough interface documentation to use the DLL you sent me a couple of weeks ago. What's the sound latency like - is there much lag when playing games? (crashes when run under NT so I'll try it tonight...) Si ICQ: 9769343, Homepage: http://www.obobo.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 16:15:23 1999 Message-Id: <01a201bf05d5$832f47b0$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: References: Subject: Teledisk, SAD.GZ etc. Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:08:37 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1492 Lines: 36 > > Yes, that's a big problem. I wanted to it too. But I couldn't get Teledisk > > work. I tried several PC's with no success. > > > > btw. GZipped SAD images are now preffered, SimCoupe can read them. > > Unless the disk is a standard Sam unprotected format, in which case a > gzipped .DSK would be better because then Linux and MacOS users can read > it too. Be aware! It is a bit more complicated. I think Linux and MacOS people have SAD support in SimCoupe. Or not? DSK can't be GZipped, since SimCoupe needs to know the size of the file. So I implemented only SAD.GZ, not DSK.GZ. External decompression of SAD.GZ is always possible, converter for MacOS is already available, and portable source too (for Linux users). I think there is already Linux version too (somebody have compiled it already :). It is a hard time now, of course. SAD.GZ is a pretty new for SimCoupe, so we must wait a while. Then it will be supported by all SimCoupe's. I decided to use standard GZip, as somebody wanted. It seems to be a good solution. Notes welcomed. Please write directly to AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com and don't waste Sam users mailing list, some people don't want to see any messages there ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 16:49:40 1999 Message-Id: <01b501bf05d7$380480f0$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: References: Subject: Re: SimCoupe 0.79 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:20:50 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1794 Lines: 52 > Aley Keprt wrote: > > 2. new floppy interface, can read/write GZipped SAD images!!! > > Is SAD version 2 just SAD version 1 in a gzip archive, or are there any > other structural changes? Is gzipped DSK support too, as they're more > commonly used. DSK can't be GZipped, since there is no header and we need to know the size of uncompressed file. Otherwise it would be slow. SAD version 2 = SAD.GZ > > note: SAAemu 0.60 is now available in Win32 version too. > > (I hope it will be included in the first Win32 release of SimCoupe. > > .....Who knows.....) > > I was waiting to hear back from you about it - is there anything I can try? > I'd be interested in seeing Dave's hq stuff in action, but I've not got > enough interface documentation to use the DLL you sent me a couple of weeks > ago. I've sent the WORKING library to Si Owen some weeks ago! Si, don't you remenber? You can see the interface in action. Look to SimCoupe 0.79 sources. > What's the sound latency like - is there much lag when playing games? > (crashes when run under NT so I'll try it tonight...) DOS version doesn't use HQ driver, so there's no latency. It doesnt' run on NT! Win32 version runs on NT well, latency is stange. It is only experimental version, the latency is 1 second. Too much, I think. > > Si > note: Win32 version with HQ driver (high quality) is not ready for public, because the author Dave Hooper don't want to release HQ driver. This can change in some days. I will speak with Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 16:49:40 1999 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:25:30 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Teledisk, SAD.GZ etc. In-Reply-To: <01a201bf05d5$832f47b0$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1186 Lines: 33 On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Aley Keprt wrote: > > > btw. GZipped SAD images are now preffered, SimCoupe can read them. > > > > Unless the disk is a standard Sam unprotected format, in which case a > > gzipped .DSK would be better because then Linux and MacOS users can read > > it too. > > Be aware! It is a bit more complicated. > > I think Linux and MacOS people have SAD support in SimCoupe. Or not? Dunno about Linux, but the MacOS version doesn't have SAD support at all. It is quite old, derived from an old version of the unix sources. And despite the GPL, the programmer/s responsible have released the binary but not the source. Grrr. Admittedly there isn't native .dsk.gz support either, but at least those can be decompressed and used. > DSK can't be GZipped, since SimCoupe needs to know the size of the file. > So I implemented only SAD.GZ, not DSK.GZ. I'm not sure what you mean, why is there a problem? Could you go into more detail? Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 17:24:01 1999 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:55:56 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SimCoupe 0.79 In-Reply-To: <01b501bf05d7$380480f0$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 532 Lines: 15 On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Aley Keprt wrote: > DSK can't be GZipped, since there is no header and we need to know the > size of uncompressed file. Otherwise it would be slow. Unless I've misunderstood something you're saying, isn't the size of an uncompressed .dsk file always 819200 bytes exactly? Andrew -- -- Andrew Collier (asc25@cam.ac.uk) -- My other -- http://mnemotech.ucam.org -- .sig is a -- Part 3 Materials Science, Cambridge -- PDF file -- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 17:24:01 1999 Message-Id: <000f01bf05dc$dd3b2c90$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> From: "Aley Keprt" To: References: Subject: Re: Teledisk, SAD.GZ etc. Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:01:14 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id RAA19702 Status: RO Content-Length: 2309 Lines: 64 ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Collier To: Sent: 23. záøí 1999 17:25 Subject: Re: Teledisk, SAD.GZ etc. > On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Aley Keprt wrote: > > > > > btw. GZipped SAD images are now preffered, SimCoupe can read them. > > > > > > Unless the disk is a standard Sam unprotected format, in which case a > > > gzipped .DSK would be better because then Linux and MacOS users can read > > > it too. > > > > Be aware! It is a bit more complicated. > > > > I think Linux and MacOS people have SAD support in SimCoupe. Or not? > > Dunno about Linux, but the MacOS version doesn't have SAD support at all. > It is quite old, derived from an old version of the unix sources. And > despite the GPL, the programmer/s responsible have released the binary but > not the source. Grrr. > > Admittedly there isn't native .dsk.gz support either, but at least those > can be decompressed and used. > > > DSK can't be GZipped, since SimCoupe needs to know the size of the file. > > So I implemented only SAD.GZ, not DSK.GZ. > > I'm not sure what you mean, why is there a problem? Could you go into more > detail? Look into sources. DSK is a plain file. There are two types of DSK which can be distinguished only by the file size. I don't know why some people still don't want to switch to SAD. Do you reall LOVE dsk or what? When a particular port doesn't support SAD, people can a) update the port (of course, not when you can't get sources) b) use converter ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What I originaly said is that files could be uploaded to NVG in SAD v2 format. Because this can be used directly. If you compress SAD with standard ZIP, the file will be longer than pure SAD v2 and you can't use it directly. (SAD v2 = SAD.GZ) On other systems, you can still decompress SAD v2 (or directly convert to DSK using 2sad). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The ZLIB used as GZipper is available for MacOS, and Linux as well. I've tested Win32 and DOS versions and there were no problems. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: AleyKeprt@bigfoot.com *** http://get.to/aley ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 18:00:59 1999 From: "Si Owen" To: Subject: RE: SimCoupe 0.79 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:30:16 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <01b501bf05d7$380480f0$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2062 Lines: 50 Aley Keprt wrote: > DSK can't be GZipped, since there is no header and we need to know > the size of uncompressed file. Otherwise it would be slow. The Win32 version uses C++ disk classes that handle with SDF, SAD and DSK in regular file, gzip and regular zip. I check for the file types in that order as the first 2 are easy to spot from their signatures. For DSK images I just read 819200 bytes from it make sure there's no more data in the stream, so the size can be used as a kind of signature. If all of those fail then it's not it's not a valid disk image. > I've sent the WORKING library to Si Owen some weeks ago! > Si, don't you remenber? I got SAASound.dll, which works great with your SAA32.EXE, but the only extra source stuff was a .LIB and a simple header file that includes some structures and a class definition (no class implementation). The DLL exports don't include any decorated functions that would be required for the class, and there's no header file for the other exported functions. Am I missing something? > You can see the interface in action. Look to SimCoupe 0.79 sources. The source directory for 0.79 doesn't seem to have all the modules that contain the sound stuff (such as procssor.c). Have they not changed since 0.783a? If they have, could you please send me them - thanks! > Win32 version runs on NT well, latency is stange. > It is only experimental version, the latency is 1 second. > Too much, I think. Just having sound will be a start, but that's going to have to come down a lot for anything with sound effects! > note: Win32 version with HQ driver (high quality) is not > ready for public, because the author Dave Hooper > don't want to release HQ driver. I was in touch with Dave yesterday, and I certainly won't be releasing anything of his without prior permission. I was highly impressed with his HQ driver, which ran great under NT too, so I'm keenest to get that up and running first, with your extra sound drivers done after that. Si ICQ: 9769343, Homepage: http://www.obobo.demon.co.uk/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 18:43:58 1999 From: "James R Curry" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:10:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: NEW: SimCoupe 0.79 In-reply-to: <011301bf05c2$b6b62d50$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990923171036Z49765-22964+246@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1712 Lines: 49 > From: "Aley Keprt" > > New SimCoupe 0.79 > ----------------------------- > > 1. new 32bit SAAemu 0.60, you don't need separate audio libraries anymore! > (supports currently only OPL2, OPL3) Excellent, excellent, excellent, excellent. All in one. IMHO, this was *needed*. > 2. new floppy interface, can read/write GZipped SAD images!!! Nice... I'm on the fence about that file extension business, I can see both sides of the coin. But then I'll use version 0.79 and I won't even have to let it concern me. *grins* > included utilities for Win32 and DOS: > SBK - converts between real disks and SAD images > 2sad - converts between DSK, SAD, GZipped SAD images > SMD - works as Sam's MasterDOS for PC AT (!) Ahhh! Everyone loves utilities. :) > note: SAAemu 0.60 is now available in Win32 version too. > (I hope it will be included in the first Win32 release of SimCoupe. > .....Who knows.....) > > note 2: Use SAD extension for packed images. All new and old > SAD-using programs can simply detect, what format is it. So you > don't need to use SAD.GZ. In addition, SAD can be autostarted > in Windows etc., but SAD.GZ cannot, since GZ is ambiguous > extension. Clear? > > ZLIB was used. Great work, Aley. I need to get access to a decent PC right now... I'm relegated to an old 486 at the moment (erk! (actually, it's fine for old games, but not so fine for a lot of other things)). Once I have the oppotunity to get something a little better, SimCoupe 0.79 will be first on my list of downloads. -- James R Curry - James@curry.com "The Balloon Doggies DEMANDED it!" The OFFICIAL James R Curry Webpage is at http://www.lhutz.demon.co.uk From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 18:43:59 1999 From: "James R Curry" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:17:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Teledisk shmeleshmisk References: <013501bf05c3$e3565230$6e52c29e@inf.upol.cz> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990923171753Z49448-22964+247@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 865 Lines: 29 > On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Aley Keprt wrote: > > > Yes, that's a big problem. I wanted to it too. But I couldn't get Teledisk > > work. I tried several PC's with no success. > > > > btw. GZipped SAD images are now preffered, SimCoupe can read them. > > Unless the disk is a standard Sam unprotected format, in which case a > gzipped .DSK would be better because then Linux and MacOS users can read > it too. > > Andrew How big is Teledisk again, and what's a convinient download site? I've yet to encounter a problem with it, you know? Except under Windows 95, but restarting in DOS fixed that one. Anyway, this is a pretty old PC, so it may actually be just right for this task. Pity about the 14.4 modem, huh?... -- James R Curry - James@curry.com "The Balloon Doggies DEMANDED it!" The OFFICIAL James R Curry Webpage is at http://www.lhutz.demon.co.uk From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Sep 23 18:44:00 1999 Message-ID: <37EA629F.3F74@clara.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:25:51 +0100 From: Gordon Wallis Organization: HEXdidn't... X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Sams worst game ever References: <0AEF0EB21F09D211AE4E0080C82733BF851DBC@mailhost.aculab.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mail.comlab.ox.ac.uk id SAA21113 Status: RO Content-Length: 7295 Lines: 152 Justin Skists wrote: > > From: Gordon Wallis [SMTP:hexdidnt@clara.net] > > > >_If_ PS2 crushes the opposition, it'll be because people didn't learn > >from the original that the games are flash, unplayable crap (apart from > >a few gems). > >_If_ PS2 crushes Dreamcast it'll be because Sega didn't learn that > >obscure ads for a console don't sell games, therefore don't sell > >consoles. > > I said that PS2 will crush the competition. Where in my emails did > I say PS2 /should/ crush the competition? > Sorry for the harsh tone of that! I took exception to the phrase "It was always going to". I have trouble believing it's predestined, even with Sony's best advertising execs on the case. It annoys me that Irimajiri said that Sega had leart from it's past mistakes, only to have Sega Europe waste it's not-inconsiderable advertising budget on a pair of obscure adverts that don't even show screenshots, let alone game sequences. > >a) DVD compatibility will probably push the price back to the highs of > >the original PS release, and by then Dreamcast will probably have had > >it's price cut by about £50. £150 vs. £300..? > > Probably. > (continued below) Is this more of what you call 'subtle humour'? ;-) > >b) Backwards compatibility? Why bother? Have you seen the prices of a > >new or second hand PS these days? Anyone who's already got a PS would be > >stupid to throw it out to make room for the new one unless it's got that > >common PS CD-skipping problem. Let's face it, with Sony making PS2, it > >it going to be much better in that department? > > And why did you buy your SAM? > Not for the Spectrum compatibility, I can tell you! I still have three fully functional Speccies, and found the emulators far to fernickity. What can I say? I'm an optimist. I truly _believed_ that US Gold would do Sam Strider with a mixture of Atari ST graphics, Spectrum code an a little Sam work to glue it all together. I honestly thought the Sam might encourage a new breed of 'tinkerers'. Sadly, consoles started to take over the world with their Nu-PC-style built-in obsolescence. Sadly, the majority of people only pay attention to flash graphics. My only other excuse for buying a Sam would be 'for the disk drive'. There's nothing worse than spending hours on some graphics only to have them destroyed by a tape loading error. I've only ever lost two or three screens to disk errors on Sam. > >c) You like the reconditioned CD-i look? Why should that mean it'll be a > >success? > > Ever heard of "subtle humour"? > [Sitting behind large oak desk, wearing tweeds and smoking a pipe. The overall effect is... Sepia-toned] "Of course, I understand the _concept_... and _in theory_, I can recognise it from context... but I much prefer to jump to erroneous conclusions" ;-) > Actually, I thought the casing on the PS1 was rather crap - especially > the pop-up disk drive. Currently, I have my printer on top of it and > it's bloody annoying juggling everything to put in a CD. > Yes... Does look rather cheap, doesn't it. Especially compared to, for example, the Sony Discman. Believe it or not, I was in a branch of GAME a week or so ago, where they were demo-ing Dreamcast right at the front of the shop, under the large '@DREAMCAST' banner. Some kid walked in and shouted "Look, Mum! They've got PlayStation2!". Ouch. > >The fact is, most people that bought PS1 were not serious gamers, they > >just added it to their list of in-home entertainment (Sony HiFi, Sony TV > >and video, Sony PlayStation). > > I'm glad I'm not "most people"... (Panasonic portable stereo, Goldstar > TV, Alba video) > > To me, the "few gems" make it all worth it. I only buy a game once in > a blue moon. Actually, 'Metal Gear Solid' was actually the only game I > can think of that I bought after playing the demo. > Amen to that! What really p!$$es me off about these people is that they played FF7 (for example) for a week, traded it in for some crappy license with a soundtrack by an allegedly famous DJ, and act as if they're an authority on contemporary videogames. Most of 'em never owned a computer (but, like, they use one for, like, email at, like, work), and many of 'em refer to their PS games as 'computer games'. May they be consigned to the most pestilent pits of Hell, there to be forever Satan's sexual plaything. > I'll probably buy the PS2 a little while after the UK release (after > the Christmas rush). I don't have a PC at home and, currently, I have > no intention of buying one, so the inbuilt DVD player would be nice. > I might buy the PS2 sooner if it has a decent Elite-style game. > Are we talking Christmas 2000? They reckon to be releasing in May 2000... They'll likely have dropped the price by £50-100 by Christmas. Unless I'm getting confused with the Japanese release... >From what you've said, it sounds like PS2 will be a good choice for ya. Just don't expect another Metal Gear Solid. I've been told that 99% of games released in Japan these days are "unplayable shit", and it seems very much as if the more technology pushes forward, the less effort goes in to taking advantage of it... I'm intrigued by the 'Emotion Engine', but how many UK developers are likely to use it (properly). How many are going to take the easy option and just recreate their PS1 games using the new hardware to improve the look of them. Then again, with folks like Kojima striving to create more innovative games, even if we do only get the top 1%, it'll be something to look forward to. People have been trying to do Elite for ages now... Privateer2, HardWar, that sort of thing. It's a difficult trick to pull off (even Braben messed it up the last time!). Problem is, with the PS market being how it is, it just wouldn't sell. The average user doesn't have the attention span. Elite is in some ways comparable to a Tamagotchi - it has to be nurtured. Have you ever tried explaining Elite to anyone who's never played it?.. "Why can't I just shoot it? Why buy that? Why go there? Why can't I land on the planet? Why isn't my pulse laser destroying that asteroid? Why are the police after me? Nothing ever happens in this f**king game!" > >Nintendo are pretty much out of the game, don't you think? > > Currently, yes... But I'm sure they will announce a new console pretty > soon. > Dunno. Maybe a new Gameboy, but they've been on a real losing streak of late. That having been said, I can't imagine them deciding to fall back on their playing cards... They had the best technology available to them when they were working on N64, but it's been aimed at the wrong market and, for the most part, can't really handle the games people want to play these days. Their days of innovating are almost certainly over. I get the impression that if they do eventually release a CD or DVD console, they'll still be eating everyone else's dust. And it's not as if they develop many of their own games. Gord. (who firmly believes that you can't be a serious gamer in the 'Nineties unless you were born in the 'Seventies. Or earlier.) -- < The HEXdidn't... Homepage: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < ------ Featuring The U.K. Policenauts Homepage ------ > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< http://www.hexdidnt.clara.net > \---------- AOL Instant Messenger: 'hexdidnt' ----------/